A Gen Z Perspective on Longevity with Samantha Feher

Summary

The Dan Buettner Podcast

Episode Title: A Gen Z Perspective on Longevity with Samantha Feher
Date: April 16, 2026
Host: Dan Buettner
Guest: Samantha Feher (journalist, entrepreneur, reality TV alum, host of "Caps Lock" podcast)

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Overview

This episode explores the concept of longevity through the eyes of Gen Z, featuring candid insights from Samantha Feher. Dan and Samantha discuss how young people today perceive health, fulfillment, and the future of wellness, digging into generational shifts, the impact of technology, the power of community, and the pitfalls of modern wellness culture. Together, they identify practical, actionable habits and mindsets that promote not just longer, but happier and more meaningful lives at any age.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Longevity for Gen Z (00:37–06:50)

• Gen Z and Wellness Commodification: Samantha points out that for her generation, "wellness was something you could buy," yet many still do not feel well, highlighting a disconnect between marketed solutions and actual wellbeing.
  • “For Gen Z... wellness was something you could buy. People still don’t feel good and the question is why? What’s missing?” — Samantha Feher (00:37)
• Shift from Millennial Burnout to Gen Z Skepticism: Samantha describes growing up at the intersection of millennial and Gen Z cultures. While millennials were sold performance and optimization (often at the expense of health), Gen Z saw the rise and crash of wellness trends, leading to a new skepticism and a quest for fulfillment.
• Living the Life in Your Years: Gen Z focuses on “the life in your years,” not just the number of years, questioning traditional aspirations (homeownership, marriage, being thin) and valuing purpose-driven, flexible paths.

2. Samantha’s Wellness Journey: Reality TV, Toxic Relationships, and Self-Love (06:51–15:22)

• Work Hard, Play Hard Dichotomy: Samantha discusses the (un)glamorous reality of balancing entrepreneurship with reality TV, sharing the toll of public scrutiny and a toxic relationship on her mental health.
• Self-Love Through Environment: Reality TV forced Samantha to reevaluate her personal relationships and self-worth:
  • “The people you choose to surround yourself with are a direct reflection of how much you love yourself.” — Samantha Feher (09:57)
• Failure as a Catalyst: Samantha credits her lowest moments (public heartbreak, online criticism) as the real engine for growth:
  • “Success doesn’t breed success. To your point, I’ve never learned anything from a pat on the back and a gold sticker.” — Samantha Feher (15:23)
• From Mental Struggle to Physical Action: Overwhelmed by mental health challenges, she focused on tangible physical habits (exercise, hydration), which in turn supported her mental health.

3. The Problem with Phones & Digital “Connection” (16:53–20:47)

• Superficial Relationships: Samantha emphasizes that phone-based “connections” (social media, group chats) lack substance, worsening loneliness and self-comparison.
• First Step Out of the Doldrums: “It’s a hard one. No one's going to like to hear it, but it’s to get off of the phone.” — Samantha Feher (16:53)
• Living IRL: Genuine connection requires leaving digital spaces for real-world engagement.

4. Building Adult Friendships and Community: The New (Old) Ways (20:48–27:20)

• Fitness and Group Activities: Sam suggests run clubs, group classes, and goal-oriented fitness as ways for adults to make friends and build community beyond their phones.
• Return to Traditional Community Spaces: There’s a resurgence in faith communities and hobby-based socialization, like church or mahjong clubs.
• Blue Zones Principles in Gen Z Life: Dan and Sam explore how the Blue Zones’ “Power 9,” especially social connection and downshifting (quiet, tech-free time), are reemerging among young adults.
• Moai as a Blueprint: The Okinawan concept of Moai—a lifelong, mutually caring peer group—serves as inspiration:
  • “A moai is a committed social circle...that make a tacit commitment to each other...when you’re down on your luck...they share it.” — Dan Buettner (25:16)

5. Rethinking Wellness: Marketing vs. Community (27:21–33:02)

• Toxicity of Wellness Marketing: Gen Z is moving past wellness as a purchasable product, recognizing that supplements, tech, and influencer advice don’t compensate for lacking community.
• Going “Back to the Basics”: Modern wellness is shifting from consumer goods and intense individual pursuits to communal activities, shared meals, and simple, daily movement.

6. Daily Movement & Purpose—Not Extreme Fitness (33:03–38:21)

• Perils of High-Intensity Routines: Sam and Dan critique the obsession with high-cortisol “wellness”—like intense daily workouts—that can harm long-term health.
• Slow, Daily Movement: People in Blue Zones don’t rely on the gym or specific diets but maintain natural activity through daily life (walking, gardening).

7. The Power of Place & Shaping Your Environment (38:22–40:28)

• Environment Over Willpower: “If you try to change your behavior for living longer or better, you’ll fail... But if you shape your surroundings...it’s going to be mindless.” — Dan Buettner (36:46)
• Move to Longevity-Friendly Places: Choose walkable, supportive environments; structural changes, like food policy, can aid wellness for all.

8. Gen Z Eating Habits & Social Shifts Around Alcohol (40:29–47:50)

• 80/20 Eating and Ingredient Simplicity: Gen Z values whole, unprocessed foods, not “wellness” powders or excessive supplements.
• Declining Alcohol Use: Sam shares her own transition to sobriety for health reasons, highlighting a generational trend:
  • “My most popular episode...where I talk about that journey [quitting alcohol].” — Samantha Feher (43:07)
  • “Gen Z is drinking less than any generation before them...a departure from binge drinking culture.” (46:06)

9. Relationships, Sex, and Navigating Modern Intimacy (47:51–53:22)

• Polarization and Hesitancy: Digital dating has replaced organic encounters, often leading to a lack of real connection. Social skills—“icebreaker muscles”—are underused.
• Community First: Fostering deep friendships and intentional, real-world interaction helps set the stage for healthy romantic relationships.

10. Caps Lock Podcast: Lessons Learned (55:00–60:37)

• Isolation as the Modern Killer: Key theme of guest interviews is that loneliness underlies much modern suffering.
• Transparency, Education, and Community: Sam values guests who educate and empower, not just sell products—“Can you help me change one girl’s life? That’s it.” (59:14)
• Gen Z’s Unique Wellness Struggles: Facing contradictory information, targeted marketing, and new health crises, Sam’s work spotlights honest discussion and practical advice.

11. The Gen Z “Cake Recipe” for Longevity (61:12–66:41)

Samantha’s Ingredients:

• Lifelong, close community (your moai)
• 80/20 rule for food, movement, and life
• Pursue purpose and meaningful work
• Maximize “IRL” (in real life) time—minimize virtual distraction
• Joyful flexibility: “If you’re doing this like really strict, really stressful...you’re not finding joy.”

Dan’s Ingredients:

• Peasant (plant-based) diet; avoid processed food
• Create/maintain your moai
• Live your purpose—don’t just know it, but act on it
• Reside in a place where movement, clean air, and healthy choices are easy
• Invest in family and intergenerational living
• Engage locally, foster neighborly ties
• Shape your environment to make healthy behavior the default

Notable Quote:
“Eat without gluttony, drink without getting drunk, love without jealousy, and occasionally, with great discretion, misbehave.” — The statistically happiest man in the world, as cited by Dan Buettner (64:28)

12. Final Rapid-Fire Tips for Overcoming Burnout and Finding Wellbeing (71:01–74:20)

• Reconnect: “Pick up the phone and call somebody who knows you to your core and have a real conversation with them, ideally in person.” — Samantha Feher (71:01)
• Experience the World: Go outside, unplugged, for a walk or any physical activity.
• Swap Doomscrolling for Reading: Replace social media or Netflix with books—pick something meaningful, not just a beach read.

Closing Thought:
“The thing that’s beautiful about humans is that we make these mistakes...it’s imperfect, and it’s perfect...that’s what makes us human and lovable.” — Samantha Feher (73:41)

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “The people you choose to surround yourself with are a direct reflection of how much you love yourself.”
  — Samantha Feher (09:57)

• “Success doesn’t breed success...I’ve never learned anything from a pat on the back and a gold sticker.”
  — Samantha Feher (15:23)

• “It’s to get off the phone...we have the appearance of connection thanks to the phones, without the substance of connection.”
  — Samantha Feher (16:53)

• “A moai is a committed social circle...they share when things go well, and support each other when things are tough.”
  — Dan Buettner (25:16)

• “Gen Z is drinking less than any generation before them. It is the first time that drinking has gone down, I believe in America, generation to generation.”
  — Dan Buettner (46:38)

• “If you try to change your behavior for living longer or better, you’ll fail...if, however, you shape your surroundings...it’s going to be mindless.”
  — Dan Buettner (36:46)

• “Eat without gluttony, drink without getting drunk, love without jealousy, and occasionally, with great discretion, misbehave.”
  — Dan Buettner, quoting the statistically happiest man in the world (64:47)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:37: Sam on wellness as something to “buy”; Gen Z response to burnout
• 09:57: Sam’s insight on self-love and social circle
• 16:53: Step one for escaping rock-bottom: get off the phone
• 21:55: Finding community in fitness and faith
• 25:10: Dan on moai concept in Okinawa
• 43:07: Sam on quitting alcohol and Gen Z’s “sober curious” trend
• 55:39: Lessons learned from the Caps Lock podcast
• 61:12: Samantha’s “cake recipe” for longevity
• 64:47: Happiest man’s mantra via Dan Buettner
• 71:01: Three quick tips for feeling better immediately

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Episode Summary

Dan Buettner and guest Sam Feher deliver a nuanced, energetic conversation about what it means to live a long, happy life in your 20s and 30s. They critique the commercialization of wellness and highlight the profound importance of real-world community, genuine relationships, purpose, and creating environments where healthy behaviors come naturally. Rather than championing hacks, products, or extreme routines, both advocate for simple, enduring daily habits—social, physical, and mental—that set the stage for thriving at any age.

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For more insights on modern longevity, check out Dan’s Blue Zones research and Samantha’s “Caps Lock” podcast.

Transcript

[Dan Buettner]

Lemonade Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Just chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful

[Sam Fair]

for Gen Z. Like we grew up understanding that wellness was something you could buy. People still don't feel good and the question is why? What's missing? Success doesn't breed success. To your point, I've never learned anything from a pat on the back and a gold sticker. The people you choose to surround yourself with are a direct reflection of how much you love yourself.

[Dan Buettner]

Oh my God, that's a great insight. Well, Sam Fair, I'm super excited about this episode.

[Sam Fair]

Me too.

[Dan Buettner]

You know, I thought a lot about it. Longevity is defined differently at different ages. And you know, I tend to define longevity a certain way and I realize people middle age, they might define it as avoiding heart disease and diabetes. And when you're 80, longevity might just be going to the grocery store and bathing yourself. And when you're 100, it might be waking up on the right side of the ground. And I've not given a lot of thought to longevity for a 30 year old or, or 20 something. And it occurs to me there's lots of great thinking and great ideas and great points of view emerging and you in my mind are kind of the it girl.

[Sam Fair]

I'm honored. My new bff and Peter is saying such nice things.

[Dan Buettner]

Well, you are my we are new BFFs and I know you became somewhat well known from your Bravo show Summer House and I have to admit I've seen neither Summerhouse nor Bravo. But my daughter knows who you are and thinks you're a big shot. But what really caught my attention was your career in journalism and most importantly your podcast Caps Lock, which I think is such a brilliant source of health information. And it comes from, like I said, somebody I regard as sort of the it girl. Maybe a younger generation might regard you as the 2026 version of Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City, sort of episodically single and sort of knows everybody ends up in the right rooms. And so I'm gonna be asking you about what lessons we can learn from 30 year olds for living longer. And more to the point, what can 30 year olds, the health influencers science backed, tell us to help us live longer and better and feel Better today.

[Sam Fair]

All topics that I will never shut up about. You know, my whole life, I've been told I talk too much. And I think I've grown into a response to that, which is closed mouths don't get fed, so I never close mine. I think the way people in their 20s and their early 30s right now are looking at longevity is I think it's Abraham Lincoln who said, it's not the years in your life that count, but the life in your years. And I love that quote, and I'm sure you've probably heard it a million times on your show or in your life because it's a popular one. But I think Gen Z in particular, is doing a good job of actually living that quote, because my understanding of the millennials, or my perception of the millennials. And I say this as someone who really grew up on the cusp of Gen Z and millennial culture. I was born in 1997, which is really the first wave of Gen Z. But all of the people who I grew up around, right, who are one step older than me, are millennials. So I kind of grew up in between those generations. And what I watched was millennials burn themselves into the ground. I watched them work and optimize for performance and metrics and numbers. And in pursuit of that, they ran into all of these, like, wellness roadblocks, right? They were doing, like, the juice cleanses and the tea toxes, and you saw heroin chic, and everyone weighing above 120 pounds on the COVID of a magazine was like, oh, Britney's letting herself go and seeing that and seeing the way that they're burnt out and, you know, they're all now trying to raise their children in a different way. What I see from Gen Z is that we witnessed the rise and fall of wellness culture. Like, really the peak and the rollercoaster downhill of it in real time.

[Dan Buettner]

What was the peak of wellness culture?

[Sam Fair]

I don't know that I would say the peak in terms of, like, it was so amazing. But I saw. I guess I saw, like, the peak infiltration of it in people's lives in millennial culture, where it was like, everyone was losing weight. This and all the marketing pictures were like measuring tapes around bellies, right? Like, that kind of toxic energy that was just so pervasive and just spoke to the time we saw that infiltrate every single moment of the millennial life. And now I think, you know, Gen Z, young people, and I think women are historically the most vulnerable and the most susceptible, and we're also the most targeted. So what you see from Gen Z is this funny combination of like, we are vulnerable and we're targeted and marketed at, but we're also extremely skeptical. And something that we're doing and something that I'm seeing around the world in young people is they're worried about putting life back in their years. So they are questioning these long held beliefs of like, what is aspirational, Is it homeownership that feels very inaccessible to people right now, and they're questioning whether they should even want it. Is it marriage? Is it being skinny? Is it any of these things? And so what you're seeing is in droves. People are leaving their corporate jobs and they're going backpacking, or they're doing mission driven work, or they're working for themselves to build something that they believe in, they're proud of. So to me, longevity for young people is a little bit of biohacking and optimizing and all that stuff that's so trendy right now. But it's also about purpose, it's about fulfillment, and it's about building something that they believe in. Because ultimately, I think that is the antithesis to the burnout and the roadblocks that all the millennials faced.

[Dan Buettner]

I want to level set here because something that really established your credibility for me was your journey from New Jersey to kind of a Devil Wears Prada type job totally to reality tv. And I wonder if you could just unpack that briefly. But where I want to land with this is that I think many people watching you on Bravo would say, wow, what a phenomenal opportunity to be a reality TV star. But that, that there was a blessing and there was a curse. And that whole journey for me establishes, I think, a credibility, but also a great jumping off point to deepen your expertise in health and wellness.

[Sam Fair]

My wellness journey, my health journey, I would say, started when I was 26, because at 26, I was the picture of work hard, play hard. I was like getting my 10,000 steps in the morning before I sat down for work. But then I was also getting 10,000 steps at the club. And I would say even a better example of that is I was, you know, founding my third business venture, and then I was spending my summer partying in the Hamptons on reality tv, right? Like, what kind of dichotomy is that other than work hard, play hard? And one thing about reality tv, the whole world watched this, like, spectacular rise and fall of a very toxic romantic relationship that I was in on reality tv. And I think to that give us

[Dan Buettner]

just a sentence or two, what was that? Very toxic but alluring relationship.

[Sam Fair]

I mean, it was a classic situationship, right. I was chasing some boy who would leave me for dead in two seconds, you know what I mean? Like non committal, like would text you back 17 hours later, leave you wondering that kind of thing. And I think to a lot of the outside world, you know, you're seeing someone go home.

[Dan Buettner]

Of course, back in the day, if I was interested in a woman, she would get a letter from me a week later.

[Sam Fair]

Not a letter, a handwritten letter.

[Dan Buettner]

Of course. How else did you communicate?

[Sam Fair]

Maybe it's a week later, but it's at least like romantic. And there's some effort behind it. More than a text.

[Dan Buettner]

Certainly 17 hours later. My God.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah. What a. What a what drama. But in this age it totally is because I think it's reflective of how they feel about you. Right. Like when you have that kind of access to people. So what was happening is, I think from the outside a lot of my life looked really aspirational, but I had always felt like something was missing. And one thing about reality TV is that it forces you to examine yourself and your life and your relationships with this magnifying glass. And what I learned when I examined my life under the magnifying glass was that a lot of my relationships were extremely unhealthy. They were extremely toxic. And what I came to realize was that the people you choose to surround yourself with are a direct reflection of how much you love yourself.

[Dan Buettner]

Oh my God. That's a great insight.

[Sam Fair]

Right?

[Dan Buettner]

That's such a great insight.

[Sam Fair]

I think it shows you, like how you feel that you deserve to be treated. And so when I was looking through the magnifying glass, I realized that I did not have a lot of self love. And that was something I needed to work on and I think the ultimate.

[Dan Buettner]

So did you give some friends the heave ho because they weren't loving you or.

[Sam Fair]

Absolutely. Boyfriends, Girl friends, Girl space friends. Tons of people in my life who I was around for the wrong reasons. Right. Like maybe it was because of reality TV and they felt cool and it felt like the thing to do. Or maybe it was the guy who wasn't giving me enough attention and I was like, I can fix him. Right?

[Dan Buettner]

We're unfixable.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah, right. Completely. Because you can't fix somebody else. That's their job to do. It's their inner work to pursue. So I think the ultimate act of self love is to take care of yourself. So once I realized that I didn't have A lot of self love. I knew the path was work on myself and my mental health was not in a great place due in no small part to the reality TV stuff, due to the situationship and the breakup.

[Dan Buettner]

Did you feel when you were doing that? And millions of eyes are on you every. And I'm sure you're right, you're getting in the right clubs here in New York and you're an it girl. Were you in heaven? Was it, was that just love and life or was this underworld just, just stewing on the inside and festering?

[Sam Fair]

I think, I think when you're young it's a high high and a low low. So the swings were big and there were times of euphoria and times when it was so dark and so isolating and you just feel like no one understands, right? No one understands me. No.

[Dan Buettner]

Give me a quick example of each. When did you feel like top, top?

[Sam Fair]

My highest point at that time in my life was when the show first started airing. America loves the new girl. America loves the young girl who's flirty, who likes to have a cheeky drink and like party with the big dogs until 4am right? America loves that girl. That girl's cool, she's popular, she's aspirational. And then you find out she's running her own business. It looks good, right?

[Dan Buettner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Fair]

But somewhere in all that like, attention is the wrong kind of attention. There's like the Reddit forum where people are saying, that girl's so fake, she's too skinny, look at her body, she must be so unhealthy. She should really open up her eyes. This relationship, this guy hates her. And you, you know, feel it's a very isolating experience to do something that crazy. Reality tv, no one shares that experience with you. A very small percentage of the world knows what that feels like. So who am I gonna talk to about it? My friend from high school who like rolls their eyes like every time I say, oh, it's so hard to be on Bravo. It's so hard.

[Dan Buettner]

Exactly.

[Sam Fair]

You know, your whole self worth is rooted in what do I look like? What do boys think about me, how are my girlfriends treating me? And like, what is the Internet saying about me? And all of those things were bad at the same time.

[Dan Buettner]

Oh my God.

[Sam Fair]

You know, you step outside, there are all these cameras and all this attention, but you go home and it's you and your mirror and you're forced to look at yourself and say like, can I do this? Who am I? Who am I? Without the validation of all these people, who am I without the love of this like loser guy who at the time I thought walked on water. And that's really dark when you don't have the foundation of I love myself. Right. So for me at that moment, the mental health was too much to tackle. It was too intimidating cause it was not in a good place. So I focused on my physical health. That felt easier. You can just go to a workout class, go hit the gym, drink some water, go for a walk at outside. And anybody who's, who's into wellness knows that physical and mental health are so inextricably linked that when one gets better, so does the other. So my physical health is getting better. My mental health starts to feel more manageable. I'm able to tackle that. And as my wellness started to level up, I started to get more curious. I started to pursue real answers. And then the standard to which I held the resources I was learning from got higher. So I stopped listening to tiktokers and I stopped listening to like health influencers and I started reading medical journals and I started reading research papers. And the double edged sword of being curious and engaged as a woman in this day and age is like, sure, I'm learning a lot. But one of the things I'm learning is how underserved and underrepresented women actually are. Because big pharma is.

[Dan Buettner]

Before you go into this, I want to dig into the very good point you just made. We had on a psychiatrist named Samantha Boardman who makes this very good point that we should be embracing failure. Success is rarely a teacher. Failure is a great teacher. And it sounds to me like this experience on Winterhouse and this douchey guy who, who didn't treat you very well and the way the Internet treated you was a form of failure. And it, it, if nothing else, it got you going in a different direction with your physical health first and then your mental health completely.

[Sam Fair]

And I actually always have and always will credit my lowest points with sending me to the highest mountaintops. Because success doesn't breed success. To your point, like I've never learned anything from a pat on the back and a gold sticker. I learned something from constructive feedback. I learned something from having to make a change and try something different because what I'm trying now isn't working. Those are the times when I learned and grew and my best successes have come out of learning that. And by the way, success doesn't really resonate with people, right?

[Dan Buettner]

No.

[Sam Fair]

So you go online and you talk about all the amazing Stuff you've done?

[Dan Buettner]

No, I'm gonna dig deep in your worst moment of your life. Imagine a lot of people are listening right now. Almost none of them were reality TV stars. What did. What does your experience, your failure, teach you that might be applicable to somebody who is going through a breakup right now, or who just got fired or downsized or their job got replaced by AI or they just had a died, terrible health diagnosis? What should you based on your own very good experience? And I wouldn't have you on if I wasn't impressed with what you did. But what is it that you did that you could universalize when you were at your lowest? What's the first step people should take in getting out of their doldrums or their dumps or their.

[Sam Fair]

It's a hard one. No one's going to like to hear it, but it's to get off of the phone.

[Dan Buettner]

Interesting.

[Sam Fair]

The phone, in some ways is your connection to the world, right? But I think something that Gen Z is facing, and I think something that everyone is facing in like, this very digital age, is that we have the appearance of connection thanks to the phones, without the substance of connection. These are superficial relationships. They are strangers commenting on your posts, talking about you, talking to you. They are people you keep up with because it feels like politically the right thing to do. And this feeling of like, oh, we have a connection. The substance of relationships is not that the experience of having a village is not the same if you're not a villager, right? So these relationships need to exist in the outside world. And for me, being in my phone all the time puts me in like a blender, right? You're in your own head. You're in an echo chamber. And it's so easy to this rabbit hole of like, oh, this is something that's wrong and this is something that's worse, and this is something that came out of it. And look at what this person's doing. I need to compare myself to that. And that's my new measure of success, right? The phone is a technological blessing, but a curse in the sense that we're losing that connection. And to me, like, relationships are currency. I don't feel my best. I'm not mentally happy, I'm not feeling strong, empowered, healthy when I'm in the phone. So my first step was getting off the phone and into the real world.

[Dan Buettner]

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[Sam Fair]

It is.

[Dan Buettner]

I mean, it's. I think it's even a bigger issue. People my age, I'm a baby boomer. It is making friends. But. But how do you do it? How do. How, how do adults make friends? How did you make friends, real friends, when you put your phone down, I

[Sam Fair]

think there's one way that I did it and one way that is new and popular for young people that I, I would like you to speak to because I think you have more experience and understanding in it. For me, fitness and wellness are a huge part of it because I have found that people who are healthy are the kinds of people who are out in the world and seeking relationships and doing things to better themselves. Um, I always tell people, try group fitness, run a race, do a high rocks, train for something. Train with a goal in mind. Join a run club. Like, these are ways that you can get off the phone into the world and your mind is occupied with doing something, so you're not tempted to go back to the phone. But a way that I think is coming back, there's like a resurgence that I, that I'm interested in your perspective on is people are finding community in places that people used to find community. But that kind of died out in the digital age. So one example of that is, you know, in the Power 9, you talk about how a lot of people in the blue zones belong to a faith. And my partner and I just started going to church on Sundays for the first time. Like I didn't grow up really religious, I didn't really go to church. I never have pursued that. Been going for probably six weeks. And I have a whole new community of people.

[Dan Buettner]

I love that.

[Sam Fair]

Reaching out, connecting. Let's get lunch after church, let's go to this lecture, let's do this or that. And that's another place where you're not in your phone, you're meeting people, you're sharing values and you're doing meaningful work. And I think that's important for the young people.

[Dan Buettner]

So you were referenced the Power nine. So my work blue zones, I found these five areas where people live the longest. And then I looked for the common denominators and there were nine of them. How they eat, how they connect, how they socialize. But three of them downshifting, which is finding times during your day or week where you just push all electronics aside and just be quiet. Connecting socially and knowing and living your purpose. A faith checks all three of those boxes once a week. You're being quiet, you're relinquishing your busy life to some higher power. However you define that, you have a chance to reexamine your values and maybe put your values to work. I think it's really important to have those top of mind. And, and you're building a new social network with people who share those values. And it's such a close and play solution that is overlooked. And to your point, my generation started moving away from church or mosque or temple, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Coming back is an easy solution. I also think, and this is very counterintuitive when it comes to wellness, that we all know people or we have known people that we forgot about whose idea of recreation is biking or playing pickleball or bowling, who are curious, they're on fire about literature, or they love poetry, or they knit. And the type of authentic people who will care about you on a bad day, whether or not you're crying or a little bit low on cash. And it's not the sort of wellness that's relentlessly marketed to us, but it's the type of wellness that 25,000 generations before us sought for health and feeling good. And I'm a big believer if you really want to live longer if you want to add good years to your life, think about who you know. Make those three criteria. Pick up the phone or your computer and invite them to a cup of coffee. Hey, I haven't seen you for a while. And proactively. The thing is, if you call somebody enough and if they're genuine people, they're going to respond. Bring them into that inner social circle, and you have the best medicine for longevity.

[Sam Fair]

I agree.

[Dan Buettner]

And I think our stories overlap on this.

[Sam Fair]

I agree. And some of your work that I reference all the time on Caps Lock is the concept of moai that you discovered when you were in researching. In Okinawa.

[Dan Buettner]

In Okinawa, that's right.

[Sam Fair]

And I think those. And maybe you should explain it before we keep talking about it.

[Dan Buettner]

Yes. So a moai is a committed social circle. Four or five people in Okinawa, they're usually formed at childhood. And that pot of people stay together and they make a tacit commitment to each other that when things go well for me, when I get a raise, or, you know, in their case it was a good crop, they share it. And when, when you're down on your luck, there's a sick parent, or you're having problems with your spouse, or you're short of money, quite frankly, my wife were. Actually, they have a financial component where they kind of pool money and give it to persons having hardship. I interviewed five women who get together every night. They gossip, they drink sake. They've been doing it every year for 97 years, or 108. Their average age is 102, and they still get together every night. And that, for me, was a great.

[Sam Fair]

That's my dream.

[Dan Buettner]

Great, great example. And it's, it's built early, I'll tell you. And it's not built with, with Instagram or with, with TikTok. It's built by somebody having the initiative.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

Join me for dinner. I'm hosting a happy hour. Yeah, I'm. Let's go out and have coffee. Let's go have a walk.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

Can't make any money, but it works.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah. Well, people are coming back to that right now, and I think it's because of the disconnect they feel. Right. And I think, you know, the missing pillar of longevity that people don't talk about is community and it's, it's relationships. But you know what the hottest club in New York is right now?

[Dan Buettner]

No.

[Sam Fair]

It's a Mah Jong club downtown.

[Dan Buettner]

No way.

[Sam Fair]

Yes.

[Dan Buettner]

You gotta tell people what mahjong is.

[Sam Fair]

I. Okay, so I'm not, I'm not educated yet. I'm actually going to take lessons with my friends next week. But it's a game you play with tiles. Right. It's almost like a card game but. And it's a little strategy based and it's very easy to pick up. Young women are like flocking to this mahjong club downtown and that just like totally struck a chord with me.

[Dan Buettner]

Why? Because it's a long way from the, you know, cocaine infused.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah, it's a long studio, 54 days, same neighborhood, different vibe. Right. But you know what I think it is? It's like we are going back to the basics. Gen B. Gen Z is the generation that has just been sold wellness as a product. We're sold supplements, we're sold vibration plates, we're sold red light masks, we're sold this and that, protein powder. So for Gen Z, like we grew up understanding that wellness was something you could buy and now I think the departure is people still don't feel good and the question is why? What's missing? And I think it is that community aspect. I think it's the relationships and the friendships. And the brilliant thing about the moai is that the relationships are not friends you met last weekend. They know you, they know your history, they know your story and they grow with you through that. And they, you don't have to fill them in every time you explain, oh, what's going on today because they know you as a person inside and out. And so Gen Z is like starting to kind of wake up to like, why don't I feel good even though I take this multivitamin? And it's because they're missing that key component. And so we're going back to the basics. We're going back to the Power 9. I think the basics look a lot like Blue Zones if you ask me. It's like going for a walk to hang out with your friend instead of going for a drink. It's, you know, getting together with your friends to learn mahjong instead of like texting in the group chat. And I think, I think incorporating Blue Zone principles which, you know, in some ways feel like, oh, we're going back to this time that we lost. So in some ways it feels like you're going backwards. But I also think it's the future. I think Gen Z is coming back.

[Dan Buettner]

I love that. You know, I think Blue Zones was sort of sidelined a little bit during the longevity bros of Peter Attia and Heberman and that with sort of obsession with protein and going to the gym, neither of which I By the way, I, I believe will help you live longer or even better, maybe the gym. Maybe, but, but, but not for the long run. But the things I talk about in blue zones, these are five populations of people who've been doing the same things for centuries or millennia who manifestly live about 10 years longer than we do. And that means they're biologically younger at every decade. So at a 40 year old there looks like they're 30 and a 50 year old looks like 40.

[Sam Fair]

And they feel that way?

[Dan Buettner]

Yes. And how do they get it? Do they, you know, run down to Central America and get stem cells or, or peptides or nad plus? Yeah, none of that. They never, they never go to a gym, they never do a diet.

[Sam Fair]

So Barry's is noticeably absent from the blue zones. There's not a berries in sight in.

[Dan Buettner]

I don't even know what Barry's is.

[Sam Fair]

What is, do you know what Barry's is?

[Dan Buettner]

I have no idea.

[Sam Fair]

Oh my God. And this is where we need a millennial to come and like sit in the middle of us and make the connection. Right. To translate, Barry's is a hit workout. It's treadmill on one side and weights on the other side. But noticeably absent from the blue zones is a one hour really intense workout in the middle of the day that will spike your cortisol and cause inflammation and nervous system fight or flight. Right. What you instead talk about is like these micro movements throughout the day.

[Dan Buettner]

That's right.

[Sam Fair]

Constant movement, gardening, walking to work. Those are the kinds of things that

[Dan Buettner]

make you live longer needing your own bread. Right? Yes. And it's pretty clear, people who do intense workouts or run marathons or do triathlons or, and are constantly getting in shape. For them, their inflammation load is so high throughout their life that it often leads to not only joint failure, but also cardiovascular diseases documented. So what we see on the COVID of fitness magazines or what I've seen for decades as the paragon of good health, it turns out is almost completely wrong. A healthy person living in Okinawa, 30 times more female centenarians there, or Ikaria, Greece, or Nicoya, Costa Rica, they're not overweight, but they don't have extra, extra muscle.

[Sam Fair]

I mean they, they don't have an eight pack necessarily.

[Dan Buettner]

No. And some of the guys may have a bit of a little keg, but, but, but very small.

[Sam Fair]

But, and, and that's so interesting because doesn't this come from the guy who biked like 16,000 miles?

[Dan Buettner]

Yes, 110,000 miles, but who's counting? Most of Them is downhill. But, but, but you're right.

[Sam Fair]

The constant.

[Dan Buettner]

But that was low intensity physical activity too. That, I mean, that. That seems hard, but it was.

[Sam Fair]

It does seem hard.

[Dan Buettner]

Maybe it was, but your body's very forgiving when you're in your 20s and your 30s. It's not forgiving after 40, so.

[Sam Fair]

Well, and that's the kind of thing you train for and you do and then it's done and then you move on and you don't do it your whole life. But. And then there's a whole other conversation happening right now that I think is really popular with Gen Z. That is that constant state of high cortisol inflammation, nervous system, fight or flight, parasympathetic reaction. Being in that state constantly messes with your hormones. So people are wondering, like, what. Why is. What's with these infertility rates? I can name a handful of things. One of them being that we feel like we should be in fight or flight for one hour every single day and then spend the rest of the day sitting and eating processed foods and drinking alcohol and spending time on our phones, which by the way, just doom scrolling on your phone creates a buildup of C reactive protein inside of your body, which causes inflammation. Right. So we can talk all day about the mental health impact of scrolling on your phone, but like, it's not good for you physically either.

[Dan Buettner]

So how, I guess, get the brass tax. How. How do you deal with burnout? There's a lot of people here are waking up early, getting their kids off to school, going to a job they don't really like, muscling through traffic back home, having to get dinner together, flopping into bed exhausted and doing it all over again on Tuesday.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah, I will speak to this as much as someone without children can. But I think the first answer is to find work that's meaningful and purposeful and fulfilling. And I think you talk, you speak to the concept of icky guy better than a lot of people. So I'll let you talk about that. But I think that's step number one is to make what you spend your days doing feel exciting and fulfilling and purposeful.

[Dan Buettner]

Yeah, you know, it's that old adage about an ounce of planning is worth more than a pound of making a mistake or whatever. But yeah, thank you. So ikigai is the Okinawan word for purpose or meaning. And it is the intersection of values, passions, and what you're good at. And a lot of us don't even take the time to do the internal inventory to know what that is. I actually, I actually. A great exercise. Sit down with a blank screen or even get this piece of paper and pen and write.

[Sam Fair]

A feather pen, a quill.

[Dan Buettner]

Well, yes, and. And fill it. What are my values? I. Women's health. I'm a Democrat, I'm a Republican. I love Anne, whatever it is, my passions. I love to share ideas I'm good at the first idea. I like to solve problems. What I'm good at. Well, I can fix things. I resolve conflict, whatever it is, but write it out and then find out where the intersection of those three columns are and that should point you in the direction of a job. And this is so crucially important because most of us will spend most of our waking life at work.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

And if we get that wrong, you're setting yourself up for five decades of agony of high C reactive protein, to put it in, in your words, and shortening your life. So even if you don't make the maximum amount of money doing that serves your. Doing the job that serves your ikigai and work, it doesn't matter. Take the lower pay and show up to a place on Monday morning, a place where you're going to put your values, your passions and what you're good at to work.

[Sam Fair]

Something that I think is really topical for Gen Z right now is like that old saying like money can't buy happiness. Right. But Gen Z is growing up in like a housing crisis, lack of affordable childcare, inaccessibility in healthcare. Right. All of these things. And so there are times when I would love to say like, you know, do something that's meaningful to you and don't care about the pay. But it really is, I think, a hard, like inherited circumstance for Gen Z to grow up in. And so I'm interested, like what, what is, what is within your control when that's out of your control? Even when we talk about like, oh, I can choose what I put in my body and I can choose, right, like what I'm eating to an extent. But I mean between financial barriers and then also like I don't know what kind of soil we're growing the food in. I don't know how processed it is. I don't know where it's coming from. There's so much that I think feels out of people's hands.

[Dan Buettner]

Yeah, it's more in your hands than you think. You know, the central tenet of blue zones is if you, if you try to change your behavior for living longer or better, you'll fail. And all you have to do is look at how long diets last, exercise programs, supplements, longevity, they all last about five to six months, and then people run out of gas, and then the new thing comes on. If, however, you shape your surroundings or you selectively pick a place to live, where the healthy choice is easy, where the happy choice is easy, it's going to be mindless. People in blue zones, none of them try to live a long time. None of them try to be happy. They live their life. So if being around clean soil is important, there's lots of places in Minnesota you can get online and you can move to a small farming town in Minnesota and be surrounded by people who have family values and grow their own food. Amory, Wisconsin. I happen to know one off the top of my head. Osceola, Wisconsin, for example.

[Sam Fair]

All right, I know where I am.

[Dan Buettner]

Here's another example. If you want to move naturally, if you live in a city like Houston or Atlanta, the average person there, they're very suburban sort of city with lots of freeways, the average person takes about 4,500 steps a day mindlessly. If you're living in New York, which you are, or living in Santa Barbara, California, or Boulder, Colorado, the average person, without thinking about it, takes 9 to 11,000 steps per day without thinking about it.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

So I advocate think about what's important to you. If living longer or being happier are important, you can pick places where that will come naturally and it does not have to be an uphill struggle.

[Sam Fair]

I agree. And I think you're a really good example of. And this is like, kind of what we're trying to achieve at CAPSOC is sharing ideas, sharing information, sharing wisdom to build a community. And I think that when a message resonates enough with a community and it becomes strong enough, it can create structure and it can lead to systemic. That's why I really admire Blue Zone's project. And I think actually the future of wellness and like, the trends we're seeing in the young people where it's like we're going to mahjong instead of texting in the group chat, like, what's up? How are you? We're actually going in person to, like, meet up. We're going back to church. Right. Like, we're, we're going back to that. I think the true systemic change, like, at a citywide level is Blue Zones projects. I think it's bigger sidewalks. I think it's people walking to work, biking to work. I think it's people spending time in places together. It's people gardening and growing food. It's Creating an environment where the choice is made for you. Right now, a lot of us live in environments where the choice is made for us, but it's the wrong choice. I would like to be living in an environment where the choice is made for me and I'm walking an extra 5,000 steps or I'm, you know, drinking water. I'm not drinking soda. Something that stuck out to me when it might've been. When you were on Jay Shetty's podcast is you talked about how it might have been. Singapore has a sugar tax. Whole single ingredient foods cost less than ultra processed ones that are packed in neon colors and shiny, you know, tinfoil things and marketed with buzzwords. That is a structural level change that I think could adhere to someone's life. And it doesn't feel like that big a change.

[Dan Buettner]

Are Gen Z people your age will say 30ish younger.

[Sam Fair]

I know, 28.

[Dan Buettner]

28. You project like a three.

[Sam Fair]

Thank you. I've always heard that. Mature for my age.

[Dan Buettner]

Yes, but look younger than your age. But are people your age consciously shifting their diet and what is it away from and what is it to?

[Sam Fair]

Yes.

[Dan Buettner]

And can you speak for your generation?

[Sam Fair]

I think so. Out of the Millennial wellness blender, we got protein powder and like supplements and ultra processed, like blends and pressed and powdered, all kinds of things. Right. I think Gen Z has wisened up. Like Gen Z is doing, or I think is trying to do 80, 20 whole single ingredient foods. I think they've seen the impact of the processed foods. I think they're seeing it mess with their hormones and their fertility. I think they're seeing it mess with their skin. I think they're seeing it mess with the way they feel. They feel sluggish, they feel bloated, they're waterlogged, they're tired, you know, And I think as they learn and get more curious, they're looking for. Okay, I'm realizing that the words on the packaging mean all different things. Like, maybe you're buying organic, but what organic means to one company is not what organic means to you. Right. Like maybe these cows are like shoved in a stall somewhere eating filler garbage. And then that's what you're getting. You're looking for things that are like free range and pasture fed and all these kinds of things.

[Dan Buettner]

What does Sam Fair serve at a dinner party? If you're inviting your Gen Z friends over for dinner, what are you making them?

[Sam Fair]

All my friends hate coming to my house. They love hate coming to my house for a dinner party because they Know what they're gonna get? They're gonna get a spoonful of apple cider vinegar before they put anything in their mouths. Then they're gonna get hot water instead of iced water. Because a principle of traditional Chinese medicine is to drink hot, warmer hot water. It should be at your body temperature or higher for optimal digestion. Then they're going to get probably like a cooked vegetable, or if it's a salad, it's going to have a lot of like nuts and seeds in it. And then it's going to be a lean protein, healthy fats, omega 3s. So you'll get like avocado, olive oil, that kind of stuff. And you're going to get complex carbs. So my friends come to my house and they're like, what's on top of the quinoa today? They know what they're going to get.

[Dan Buettner]

How about alcohol?

[Sam Fair]

I don't drink.

[Dan Buettner]

Is that right?

[Sam Fair]

And it was a health decision. It was a physical and a mental health decision. And it's actually my, my most popular, my most listened to episode of Caps Lock where I talk about that journey. The inciting factor was I accidentally got drugged at a party, not by someone who's trying to hurt me, but by someone who was trying to enjoy a little spike of Molly and gave it to the wrong person. And that was like, I don't really do drugs, right? I don't even drink anymore. So I think the experience of Molly when you're not expecting to be on Molly. I thought I was having a stroke. I was completely frightened. So it turned me off of alcohol for a while. But what actually made it stick? Because I think you can have a weird experience with alcohol and it sticks for two weeks, right? People have all this hangxiety after they drink. Why am I so anxious? Does everyone hate me? Is everyone mad at me? That turns you off of alcohol for like two weeks and then you go back to it. But what made it stick for me was learning about the lack of redeeming qualities, right? Like cancer risk increases and your anxiety increases and inflammation increases. And when you're drinking, you're more likely to have bad sleep and you're more likely to make bad food choices, right? So I'm learning all this stuff about the negative impact of alcohol on your mental and physical health. And I was like, okay, why are we all doing this? It's a Group 1 carcinogen. We know what it is. And I actually found it interesting that in the power nine is a little wine at five. But I actually wonder if it's impossible to isolate the wine itself from the social experience of drinking with friends. Because my understanding of these cultures where people are having their wine at five is that it's like a happy hour thing. You're not drinking your wine at home alone. I think there's something to be said for like healthy drinking culture, right? Having your wine with dinner in Italy or in Greece or wherever. But I think Americans have drinking culture wrong.

[Dan Buettner]

I agree with you. I don't defend alcohol. I do, however, defend red wine. Why? Because it's been part of the Mediterranean diet. You can't really talk about the Mediterranean diet without pulling wine out of it because it's inextricably linked for at least 4,000 years and people in the blue zones are drinking it. But to your very good point, it's hard to, to separate it from the social connectivity of it. And you know, it brings people together. It's, it's the centerpiece of meals. It, it's the fuel of late night parties. They keep people dancing all night.

[Sam Fair]

I think party makes you live forever. That's what's making you live forever.

[Dan Buettner]

But do you think you're. I mean, I imagine Sex in the city, which I just watched an episode of last night. You know, you're kind of my Carrie Bradshaw a generation later. But I mean, if, if three of your friends, four of you go out, how many are drinking?

[Sam Fair]

One or two.

[Dan Buettner]

Okay, so not cosmos anymore?

[Sam Fair]

Not cosmos anymore. Definitely not. I think my friends, if they're drinking it is red wine or it's like a vodka soda or something that's like low calorie, not like made of sugar. Because so much of the hangover is actually sugar withdrawal, right? The headache, the anxiety, all of it is like plummeting blood sugar. I'm curious your take on it. Gen Z is drinking less than any generation before them. It is the first time that drinking has gone down, I believe in America, generation to generation.

[Dan Buettner]

On a population level, I don't think there's any downside. Although the National Academies of Science, which so far has emerged unscathed in all these sort of academic battles, still says people who drink a drink a day have lower more overall mortality. They have a higher chance of cancer, especially breast for women, but they have a lower, they have lower all cause mortality, about 10%.

[Sam Fair]

Fascinating. It's interesting. But I do think that the culture America has created around drinking and particularly around binge drinking among young people, so like going to a bar and getting absolutely hammered and then like stumbling home

[Dan Buettner]

at night or going to A summer

[Sam Fair]

house or going to the Hamptons or going to there and getting your heart broken and like, bunch of mean girls like talking about you behind your back. I don't want to encourage that for anybody. But I think Gen Z's departure from this binge drinking culture is part of what is propelling them to the mah Jongg table or to a pottery class or to like, whatever their hobby or interest is. Like, I have a ton of friends who used to go to this trivia night to get wasted. Now they go to trivia night because they're interested in the trivia.

[Dan Buettner]

I love it. How about sex? How about Gen Z attitudes towards sex?

[Sam Fair]

I think the root question of that is Gen Z's attitude toward relationships. I think we live in a world divided on a lot of topics. I think a lot of things are polarizing right now and people have trouble separating them. Right? And so, like, I anticipate that 20 minutes ago when we were talking about faith, a lot of people are gonna be going on the Internet and saying, Sam Fair's maga, which Sam Fairs not. But I think when it comes to relationships and money and faith and all of these topics, I think people are feeling this polarization where Gen Z, like, there is this really, this really weird kind of ecosystem around romantic relationships that feels kind of toxic and health and unhealthy. There are people who are like, I have.

[Dan Buettner]

Wait, what? Where, where's the toxicity come in?

[Sam Fair]

Well, I think there are people who are like, I'm doing healthy relationships. Like, I've found myself. I, I love myself. I'm ready for a healthy relationship. But then I think there's also this, like, this like, divisive Internet discourse around specifically heterosexual relationships where, like, all men are bearing the brunt of the actions of a few bad men, where women, rightfully so, feel unsafe in a lot of environments. And there is this, I think a lot of it, and if I may, I think a lot of it is perpetuated by wealthy, powerful men abusing their power. Right? And we see that a lot. And so it trickles down. But what happens, the result of that, the end result of that is you go to a bar and no men are approaching you. And you go to any place in the world, no one's talking to each other. It's like a middle school dance. Girls on one side, boys on the other. And I think that is the underlying factor that people are missing when they talk about Gen Z and sex. Because Gen Z is, I don't know. I've heard reports on Both sides. And I'm curious what you've heard. I've heard that Gen Z is having less sex than anyone. I've heard that Gen Z is having better sex than everyone. Safer sex, more adventurous sex, more fulfilling sex. And I think at the end of the day, in order to distill that to a real takeaway, you have to look at the relationships. I think the common thread I'm hearing from my single friends in their 20s and 30s is like, all we have left is the dating apps because no one's talking to each other. No one is bonding over shared values or interests. They're swiping on pictures.

[Dan Buettner]

Yes. And I, I, it's interesting that you attribute it to fear and you might be absolute. And both fear of women endangered and fear of men just getting shut down because they're, they're, you know, there have been a few bad actors that taint the whole, the whole gender. But I also think we, I think social interaction, interaction, breaking the ice is like a muscle. And we don't exercise that muscle when we're swiping and, and getting our social interaction from Instagram or, or even even just talking on the phone or zoom instead of face to face. That. I think what's missing is learning how to break the ice and start a conversation and maintain a conversation.

[Sam Fair]

And I think the lowest stakes way, then you can have sex. I think the lowest stakes way to exercise that muscle is starting with your friends. And you said it yourself, like, no one's calling each other to say, let's hang out. Everyone's doing what they want by text or email. And everyone, every time someone goes to a meeting, they say, this could have been an email. Okay, but the point is that we're in person. That's the whole point. We could have had this conversation in 140 characters, but we chose not to. And I think if you start doing that with your friends and you just become the kind of person who calls your mom instead of texts her or visits her instead of texting her, then I think you can also be the kind of person who meets people in real life and starts a shared relationship based on shared values in real life. Which I think I have a lot of friends who are like, I wanna meet in person. I don't wanna meet on the apps. That is a last resort. And it totally works for some people. I know a lot of great couples who met on the apps. So again, same thing with the phone is like, you might make that superficial connection, but we all know the relationship's not Progressing past the two messages of hey, what's up? Like, my name's Kevin, how are you today? The relationship's not going past the.

[Dan Buettner]

And then if 17 hours go by, it's over, it's over.

[Sam Fair]

And there is a little bit of that too, right? Where it's like in a world where you have perpet access to somebody, it is a choice not to respond to them immediately. We know your phone's in your hand. We know you're scrolling on Instagram in this very moment. So if you're not responding, you're sending a message the same way as you're sending message. If you're actually sending messages.

[Dan Buettner]

Not me, by the way, not Dan. Text me. You don't hear from me. I haven't looked at my Dan Tic Tacs for a day and I'm better off for it.

[Sam Fair]

But like, how weird is that? That. But the sex is a byproduct of the relationships is a byproduct of the technology is a byproduct of the, you know, all of it is just like your physical and mental health. It's inextricably linked. There's none of it without the other,

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

hey, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus from Wiser Than Me, et cetera. Just popping in with a little reality check. Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our leftovers should end up in a landfill. But that's the final destination for about a third third of the food we grow. Our ancestors would be confused. They use their food scraps as compost or as animal feed or in weird soups, all the stuff we did before garbage was invented. But composting is hard work. Living with a bucket of rotten food on your counter is gross. Most food goes in the trash because it's easy. And these days, we'll take any easy we can get. But now there's something easier. Drop your scraps in a mill food recycler. It looks like a kitchen bin and an iPhone had a baby. It takes nearly anything, even meat and bones. It works automatically. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells. When you finally empty it, you've got these nutrient rich grounds. Use them in your garden, pour them in your green bin, or have mill get them to a small farm so the food you don't eat can help grow the food you do, just like it should be. It's why I own a mill, why I invest in mill, and why I'm still obsessed with my mill. If you want to get obsessed too, go to mill.com wiser to get $75 off. That's mill.com wiser for $75 off.

[Dan Buettner]

I want to drill down a little bit more on Caps Lock because it's so good. I think it's. I think it's the future of health and wellness. And I. I'd like to talk about specifically some of the lessons that you've learned. You've talked about burnout, you've talked about posture, you've talked about diet. And I. I think you have 60 or 70 very good episodes. And by the way, if you haven't checked out Caps Lock, do. But what are some of the episodes that stick out in your mind or some of the lessons that you've learned that you think would help others hear?

[Sam Fair]

One that's really topically relevant is an episode I did with Dr. Jonathan Leary, who founded Remedy Place. And I think you guys have a lot in common. The through line to all of his work is that isolation is like the great killer of wellness in this day and age. And so what he built is a place where you can go and do a sauna and a cold plunge and get an IV and do lymphatic drainage and be there with other people in the same place and meet people and be in a community setting. And that was really important, I think, to share with my audience, because to our point that we've been harping on, I think that is like, the loneliness epidemic is the wellness crisis of Gen Z. Another one that really, really sticks out in my mind is an episode I just did with the founders of Clear Stem. And something that people don't talk about, I think, with Gen Z and women is that one of the reasons we're so vulnerable and targeted by, like, wellness media and wellness marketing is because they're capitalizing on insecurities and vulnerabilities that women have to sell them the wellness product.

[Dan Buettner]

I always thought women were just more enlightened and took better care of themselves and also tend to be the CEO of their family. Huh.

[Sam Fair]

Maybe I was going to say shoppier. We're spendier.

[Dan Buettner]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Fair]

We're the demographic.

[Dan Buettner]

You said that, not me.

[Sam Fair]

And I did. And I stand 10 toes down on it. We spend the money and we make a lot of decisions on behalf of the household, to your point. But think, like, why is the marketing aiming at us because they want our money, not because they want us to live forever? I mean, that's an ideal. And there are some companies that truly do stand behind that. Speaking to these two women was Amazing. Because what they do is, yes, they have a skincare line that is rooted in curing acne, which is a problem that millions of women in America face. And I think people downplay, you know, the impact of that.

[Dan Buettner]

I think they do, yeah.

[Sam Fair]

But it's like a self confidence thing, a self worth thing, a self perception thing, an identity thing. But what was special about these women is not that their skincare is exceptional. It's that they are committed to providing free educational resources and free learning to their community, because they don't really care if you buy their skincare product. They actually have an online checker where you can check the ingredients of your other skincare products to make sure that they won't give you acne.

[Dan Buettner]

Do they mention that if you cut out all dairy, your chances of acne go down dramatically?

[Sam Fair]

They do, yeah. Dairy. And I love that. Yes, all kinds of things. And. And it's because they suffered from it themselves for years. But their commitment to transparency and education is what stood out to me. Because in an era where every headline is clickbait and you have to wonder, did AI write this? Is this even true? How do I fact check this? Because how do I know who's funding this research? Right? You go down the rabbit hole of who.

[Dan Buettner]

How do we know this is Sam Fair talking right now instead of AI generated? You never know.

[Sam Fair]

But in that world, I think, like, the best thing that you can do for someone else is help them learn, help educate them, and give them the tools and the resources they need to feel empowered to take care of themselves. So that was my takeaway from that episode. Even though the whole thing was about clearing your acne, that was really, like, what I found to be powerful about it. And the truth is, everybody I've talked to, and it's a wide range of people, they come on to talk about pivoting at work to find fulfillment. They talk about, you know, how your birth control being on birth control for however many years, like, is that a bad thing or not? And the research is really conflicting. We don't really know right now. Is it okay to be on birth control for 10 years? Is it a good thing or is that a bad thing? I mean, there are a lot of people who will go online and use this clickbait headline of birth control is a Group 1 carcinogen. And then a lot of people who are saying this actually being on this kind of birth control for five plus years lowers your risk of ovarian cancer by like 50% or whatever it is, Right? So I'VE talked to a wide range of amazing people and on a bunch of topics that the kind of deciding factor for me when I'm deciding who's going to come on this show is can you help me change one girl's life? That's it. And I've heard from listeners who said, I stopped vaping because I listened to an episode of your show about vaping and nicotine, or I stopped drinking because I listened to you talk about your sober, curious journey and thought that it might be a good time to like, extend dry January. And if the podcast never made a dollar and never reached one more person, that's enough.

[Dan Buettner]

You're worth it. Good for you.

[Sam Fair]

That's enough.

[Dan Buettner]

If you had to synthesize everything you've learned through your own health journey and through being a journalist and through your podcast and had to give me a cake recipe for longevity and to the best of your ability, reflecting what you would say is a Gen Z cake recipe for longevity. And this means living my to the capacity of my human machine and staying biologically younger every decade until I get there. What would be some of the ingredients in that cake recipe?

[Sam Fair]

The first ingredient is a community where it's not just a community of people you see all the time, it's a community of people who know you. This is your moai. This is your group of people who can be with you for your whole life and stick by your side and grow with you and learn with you. The second ingredient is and you're gonna laugh at me because it's one part 80 20. And I believe this is a rule in the power nine as well, which is 80% whole single ingredient foods, 20% whatever you want, 20% joy, 20% your ice cream at the end of dinner, that kind of thing. 20% your glass of wine, if that's your vice. But I'd like to expand 8020 to cover everything. 80% good food, 80% healthy movement, 80% of the time, I want you to sleep well. But I also think that a component of your wellness and of living longer is loving your life. And if you're doing this like really strict, really stressful, you're optimizing, you're biohacking, you're counting your macros all the time, you're not finding joy. I actually think one of the curses of being in Gen Z is armed with all this information, we're obsessive about tracking everything. So I think that 20% of whatever you want is crucial. So I think it's a strong community of people who are by your side for a long time. I think it's an 8020 rule in everything you do. I think it is the pursuit of purpose and, like, fulfillment. That's why I do the podcast. It's to see if that girl will stop drinking for her health. It's to see if that girl will stop vaping because she knows it's bad for her. So that's for me, that's my work, which is a blessing. But for some people, it's having children. For some people, it's taking care of their sick parents. For some people, it's moving their body and helping other people move their bodies. Whatever that purpose is for you, I think that is a crucial part. And I think the last one, you know, maybe I sound like a broken record, but it is to be IRL as much as possible, meaning in real life, and to be less on the phones, because the phone's always going to be there. In fact, the phone's probably going to be there more than ever in the next couple years. You have a robot in your pocket now telling you everything you've ever wanted to know. But some of the most amazing things I've learned, I didn't learn from Googling them. I learned them from talking to my grandma or from talking to someone else's grandma or from, you know, getting really inspired by a topic I heard on a podcast and bringing it home to my boyfriend and saying, okay, we need to talk about this. I think those are the moments that keep me young and keep me alive and keep me. Keep the fire on under me. And I think that's my last ingredient. So what are your ingredients? Love it.

[Dan Buettner]

Well, first, I'll just say, you didn't mention a superfood. You didn't mention a supplement. You didn't mention cold plunges, which I'm so over.

[Sam Fair]

Women should. I'm actually in the camp of women shouldn't be cold plunging. And I used to do it, but, yeah, I don't think it's good for women.

[Dan Buettner]

It's gonna end up in the slag heap of.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah, it is.

[Dan Buettner]

That was so last year.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

But playing off the 80 20, I interviewed the statistically happiest man in the world who gave me this quote, quote, and the quote was eat without gluttony, drink without getting drunk, love without jealousy, and occasionally, with great discretion, misbehave.

[Sam Fair]

Full body chills. It's my new life mantra.

[Dan Buettner]

Yeah. So, I mean, it's. It kind of gets at your 8020 idea or.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

So. Well, my ingredients are eat A peasant diet which is largely whole food plant based. People in the blue zones were below US poverty line, but they ate beans and grains and you know, stuff is at the bottom shelf of the grocery store. Garden vegetables, greens that they would harvest from the side of the road, some nuts, meat very occasionally, if ever. No processed food if you can avoid it. Number two, create your moai. We all have 150 friends will slap us on the back on a good day. But most of us, we're lucky if we have five friends who care about us on a bad day. And cultivating those are our complete goal. Knowing your sense of purpose very clearly and putting it to work. It does you no good to know your sense of purpose if you're showing up to a job you hate every day and a partner in life who does nothing to fuel that purpose or put that purpose to work. So putting that purpose to work it is living in the right place. It's very hard to live a long fulfilling life if you're not living in a place where you can walk. Places that so much of the physical activity that people actually get on a day to day basis are walking to work or walking to get your cup of coffee to a friend's house. Living in a place with clean air, bad air will shave about five years off of your life expectancy.

[Sam Fair]

And New York is a double edged sword. Like I get my 12 plus thousand steps a day, but I don't think the air quality is all it's cracked up to be.

[Dan Buettner]

You might be right, but I think BMI is a lot lower. About half of that in the rest of the United States. I would say it's a net positive living in New York. Yeah, I agree with sauce and yeah, good food.

[Sam Fair]

What are the rest of your ingredients? You have any anymore? Is that your foundation investing in your family?

[Dan Buettner]

It's worth about three extra years of life expectancy of living in an extended household or. Or wow. Or having your grandparents or your parents living with you and your kids or your grandkids. Yeah, every one of those generations live longer. The kids get better support, the older people get more engagement. It is a true longevity hack which we completely miss in this. Over 50% of Americans will spend some time warehoused in an old people's home when they should be staying at home and to the extent they can in blue zones. That happens all the time. I think is really important. Living near water, you'll be 10% happier without thinking about it.

[Sam Fair]

That's amazing.

[Dan Buettner]

I believe that very important and I think the operating System right now for longevity is your neighborhood. Why? Because it is small enough that you can have, you can shape it. It's very hard to con, very hard for you to go change the policy in New York City or me changing policy in Miami. But I can set up a safety watch in my neighborhood. I can be the one who hosts the block party. I can be the one to set up the happy hour or the potluck dinner. And knowing our neighbors is one of the most powerful things. Your best friend might live in California, you're never going to see her. But your neighbor, somebody you'll see all the time. Gallup recently did a study that showed one of the best predictors of happiness is how many neighbors you say hello to every day.

[Sam Fair]

Wow.

[Dan Buettner]

And no, on a first name basis, we have control over that. And again, for Blue Zones, the central tenet is if you want to live longer, don't try to change your behavior, shape your surroundings so that your unconscious decisions are better.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah. And I think something that a lot of people need to hear because I think a lot of young people have like big vision, right? Everyone wants to change the world, but a lot of people don't even think about making their local impact. And that I feel like is what Caps Lock is about for me is like, I can't change, right? I can't change the healthcare system. I can't change the way society conditions women to believe they're not good enough just as they are. I can't change any of those things. But what I can do is reach a small group of women who are kind of like me, who are curious and who want to change their own lives. And I think what you managed to do with Blue Zones, which went from like passion to research to, you know, a book and a show and a podcast and all these things, that is like the true example of like community that turned into systemic change. And so the truth is I actually don't think you can make systemic change if you don't make your local change first. I completely believe in high impact, small radius before any impact large radius. And I think that is what will change the world. And I think Gen Z is starting to figure that out. Everything is hyper niche, everything is local, everything is let's do run club. Guess who's not coming to run club in New York? Like a bunch of people from California, right? Like it's your neighbors. So that's my hope for the future of Gen Z is that they see what these small changes at a small scale can do and turn that into their mission, because I think that is the way to achieve larger scale change.

[Dan Buettner]

You're here.

[Sam Fair]

You're here.

[Dan Buettner]

Well, for the listener who may feel burnt out or overwhelmed or depressed or just have been treated unfairly, what's something you can do right now to feel better, or at least to feel more like their authentic selves?

[Sam Fair]

Pick up the phone and call somebody who knows you to your core and have a real conversation with them, ideally in person. But if it has to be on the phone, it has to be on the phone, because some of your best friends, to your point, live in California. My second one is going to be go outside for a walk or for some kind of physical activity. And don't bring any media, no music, no podcast, nothing. I want you to be in the world. Because when I'm in my head, when I'm overwhelmed, it's because I'm in my head. I'm in my little echo chamber. But going outside reminds you that, like, all of these people have lives just as big and nuanced and stressful and chaotic and as complex as yours, and we're all just like this tiny part of the universe that makes me feel less alone, gives me perspective. Say hi to your barista, smile at them, and then go for a walk without, you know, distracting yourself without a podcast or something. And then the third thing I would do is swap your Doom scroll or your Netflix for a book.

[Dan Buettner]

Oh, wow, there we go.

[Sam Fair]

And that's kind of a niche one, I guess. But I went on a little bit of a reading journey this year where I started taking the literature I choose more seriously. Like, instead of my little, like, check type stuff or like my murder mystery or my beach read, I started reading classics and I started reading science fiction, which is very unusual for me. Big Colleen Hoover girl. So for me, to be in sci fi is really interesting. But from the classics department, I read Brave New World. And then on the sci fi side, I read Oryx and Creek by Margaret Atwood. And these books were written decades apart and they're in completely different genres, but they could have been written today, both of them. As an example, in Oryx and Crake, there's this like, kind of mad scientist who thinks that the solution to saving the planet is wiping out the human race and starting fresh. So he designs this new species that's like a human derivative, and they're supposed to be better in every single way. They are. You know, they've taken out, like, emotional relationship selection. So it's like mating like animals. It's a biological imperative. There's no jealousy, there's no hatred. Right? So he breeds this new race of humans that's supposed to be superior. And you read the book from the perspective of all these humans who are fucked up, they're jealous, they're sad, they make bad choices, they do bad things. And you want them to win, you want them to survive. And you don't have a problem with the perfect human race, whatever. Like, they're fine.

[Dan Buettner]

Right.

[Sam Fair]

But it reminds you that. But the thing that's beautiful about humans is that we make these mistakes. We fuck up, we're jealous, we make bad choices, we do the wrong things sometimes. And that's what makes us human.

[Dan Buettner]

And lovable.

[Sam Fair]

And lovable. It's imperfect, and it's perfect. And reading those books and realizing they could have been written today by any one of the best authors, going around today and understanding that the message is always the same, and it's that. That we're going to be okay, that has changed my perspective.

[Dan Buettner]

I think that's the perfect way to end the podcast. We're going to be okay.

[Sam Fair]

Yeah.

[Dan Buettner]

And if you listen to Cap Lock, you're going to be even better.

[Sam Fair]

I hope so. And definitely listen to the episode with Sam Buettner.

[Dan Buettner]

Thank you so much, Sam Fair.

[Sam Fair]

Thanks for having me.