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- [00:00]
Advertiser 1
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- [00:33]
Bobby Skinner
And it's only on Prime Video Breaking.
- [00:35]
Justin Pennock
The tackle touchdown this week. Keep the holiday celebration going as the Seattle Seahawks take on the Chicago Bears.
- [00:43]
Bobby Skinner
You're gonna love this.
- [00:44]
Justin Pennock
Coverage begins with TNF tonight. Not a Prime member. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to stream the game.
- [00:50]
Bobby Skinner
It's the Seahawks and Bears Thursday only.
- [00:53]
Justin Pennock
On Prime Video restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.
- [00:57]
Scott Patterson
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- [01:26]
Bobby Skinner
It's golf.
- [01:27]
Scott Patterson
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- [01:35]
DJ Dramos
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- [01:54]
Scott Patterson
Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. State Farm, Proud sponsor of my Kultura podcast network.
- [02:00]
Advertiser 1
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- [02:25]
Bobby Skinner
Welcome to Football today. I'm your host, Bobby Skinner. Here with my co Host Justin Pennock. December 25, 2024. Hope everyone's having a wonderful Wednesday. And of course because it's Wednesday, we are having a show. We're doing our awards for the season and we're going to get really creative. We're going to do mvp. We're going to do offensive defensive player of the year, Offensive Rookie of the year, defensive rookie of the year and Coach of the year. And no one cares about comeback player of the year because it's a fraudulent award and they changed the rules completely. Justin, how are you?
- [02:56]
Justin Pennock
I'm good. Bobby Skinner. I'm very, very good. Happy Wednesday to everybody that celebrates this Wednesday. Yeah, kind of did the math. We're like, oh well, coaches are going to start to get fired and it's going to be the end of the season. So we're not actually sure if we're actually going to have like a formal show where we get to give our end of season award ballot. And I kind of feel a little dirty because there is, because a lot of these awards, at least MVP I think is MVP is going to come.
- [03:24]
Bobby Skinner
Down to the stretch.
- [03:25]
Justin Pennock
It is going to come down to the stretch. So I kind of feel bad putting my, you know, putting our flag in the sand, so to speak, what we say over here. I kind of feel bad. But we got to do it. Let's do it.
- [03:35]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah. Also the NFL has really screwed up their awards thing by putting it the night before the Super Bowl. So it's like you don't, you don't even give talk shows like a day to talk about. Like it was a perfect middle midweek of the playoffs. We can talk about MVP and stuff. And then they're like, ah, you know what we should do? We should put it on Saturday night. There's no shows now before the super bowl. And guess what we're talking about the next day. The Super Bowl. Not, not the awards. Great job NFL. You really have done a good job with this. But I think MVP is pretty like probably the more one of the most interesting MVP races in a long time. Justin. And let's get, let's start there. MVP of the NFL. I think it's, people are arguing too. I think it become, can become a three man race depending on how the quarterbacks do and if Saquon Barkley breaks the all time rushing record. But it's really between Saquon Barkley, Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. And who are you going now?
- [04:38]
Justin Pennock
I have a hope and I have a big speech that I want to go on But I'm not going to do that yet because I have to pick one Lamar Jackson.
- [04:46]
Bobby Skinner
Okay, thank you. Can I say something? People who say Josh Allen are just wrong.
- [04:54]
Justin Pennock
Josh Allen has less to work with. But still like, but, but let's stop.
- [04:59]
Bobby Skinner
Acting like the Ravens are just, you know, the super team. Like the receivers are Zay Flowers and Mark Andrews has. Who has not been the same version of himself.
- [05:07]
Justin Pennock
They're not.
- [05:07]
Bobby Skinner
No, like let's, let's stop acting. And if it was close, Lamar has 200 more passing yards than Josh Allen. He has 12 more passing touchdowns at 37 compared to Josh Allen's 26. He has two less interceptions, which is why, you know, Josh Allen's kind of finally in this is because, you know, he has those. And by the way, Josh Allen was my preseason MVP pick. He has. Lamar has 250 more rushing yards. The only stat that Josh Allen has is the 11 rushing touchdowns while Lamar has three. And you're like, oh, well, Derek Henry in the run game. Okay, well, I mean James Cook is, you know, he's 1,000 yard back. He was third in rushing last year. You know, he just doesn't get the short yardage yards that Josh Allen ends up getting. That, that Lamar is getting. So I want to talk about Lamar versus Saquon and all this, but I think the main thing we need to talk about is Lamar versus Josh Allen. I think if you are voting for Josh Allen, I think you are simply wrong and you don't want to give, you'd rather give Josh Allen his first MVP than Lamar his third and a back to back. I, I think, I think you're bored with Lamar if you're not giving Lamar Jackson the MVP award. If you want to talk to me about like all the arguments like you said, are not about like what they're actually doing on the field. Like, well, he doesn't have as much to work with. And the fact that the Bills have three losses and the Ravens have five.
- [06:27]
Justin Pennock
I'm not as strong. I like, I think Lamar deserves it more. I think Lamar's had a better year, but I'm not as strong. Saying you're wrong.
- [06:35]
Bobby Skinner
Can I tell you better in one statistical category like touchdowns, interceptions or yards?
- [06:41]
Justin Pennock
I will say, and I agree with you, but I will say Josh Allen is leading the league in EPA per play and he is leading it by a somewhat good margin. He's the only guy with the point whose EPA per play starts with 0.3. Everybody else starts with 0.2. And MVP has typically been an EPA per play, like award the LA at least the last couple years. And I don't know if that includes last year because last year was just weird. They had to give it to somebody last year, which Lamar deserved it last year too.
- [07:08]
Bobby Skinner
But it should be a total epa, not a PPA per play.
- [07:11]
Justin Pennock
That's okay. That's, that's good. I could, I could even check on that maybe.
- [07:15]
Bobby Skinner
But, and maybe Josh Allen's ahead of him.
- [07:17]
Justin Pennock
But I'm going to tell you my wish. I'm going to tell you my wish. We don't have total epa. ESPN does that if you want to look into that. I, I hope they split it.
- [07:31]
Bobby Skinner
I have not happened that since Peyton Manning. Steve McNair.
- [07:36]
Justin Pennock
I feel dirty trying to, trying to say like definitively Lamar Jackson has been better than Josh Allen or definitively Josh Allen's been better than Lamar. I think they both deserve it. Part of me hopes if there's 50 writers, 10 votes goes to sake one, 20 goes to Alan, 20 goes to Lamar. That's my hope.
- [07:59]
Bobby Skinner
So it'd be very hard for that to happen.
- [08:01]
Justin Pennock
It would be hard.
- [08:02]
Bobby Skinner
I'm shocked that it's even happened once with Peyton Manning or Steve McNair here. But we got to talk about sake one in this too.
- [08:09]
Justin Pennock
Yes.
- [08:11]
Bobby Skinner
Now here's the issue is that the V& MVP, I feel like ruins some people and I understand if you want to argue by the leather law, but what is more valuable, the quarterback or the running back, Fine. But you know what? This is the NFL and to me we give running backs to mvp. When they close, they get very close or break all time rushing records. You know, when Adrian Peterson, you know, came eight yards short of Eric Dickerson's record in 2012, we gave him the record. When Landanian Tomlinson broke the touchdown record in 06, we gave him the MVP. When Sean Alexander did in OH5, we gave him the MVP. Saquon Barkley right now is on pace to miss it by 22 yards. And I know you could talk about the extra game in there, but in reality, like we just have to start. That's, you know, we, we can't, we.
- [09:01]
Justin Pennock
Can'T do new NFL.
- [09:02]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah, we can't do that for everything. You know, for a long time it was 14 games and then they, you know, went to 16. Right. That's a bigger gap. So when like we didn't not celebrate those records.
- [09:11]
Justin Pennock
And if you want to compare records, it's Eric Dickerson has 131 yards per game. Saquon Barkley as of now has 122 yards per game.
- [09:20]
Bobby Skinner
Insane. Yeah. So like, like there's a. There's, you know, a legit. A lich. A legit, like, reason why to give him. And I'm sorry, you want, you want to argue me about the whole value thing? Fine, have at it. Guess what? What I'm not going to do is I'm not just going to eliminate every single position from this. I will put running backs in here. Do you think that there can be enough for Saquon and people going back and forth on Lamar and Allen where that splits some of the votes and Saquon ends up getting. Getting this thing? Because I'm not going to sit here and tell you how strong. Here's what I'll say right now. I will say Lamar Jackson, if Saquon breaks Eric Dickerson's rushing record, I'm. I would vote for Saquon.
- [10:11]
Justin Pennock
Yeah. I think he is going to fall just short. I think that Steelers game kind of. Kind of got him right now.
- [10:17]
Bobby Skinner
He's on pace to miss it by 22 yards. But he's also playing the Cowboys and the Giants, which.
- [10:21]
Justin Pennock
Yeah.
- [10:21]
Bobby Skinner
Which you know very well defenses. I bet you kind of wish he didn't, like, go out, you know, in the. Early in that Giants game earlier in the year, because that would be him. Help him out.
- [10:32]
Justin Pennock
Here's Here, here's how I think it could. The Saquon impact is going to hurt somebody. I think it's going to help Josh Allen. I think because you're. You're going to have some people that even if they think Lamar deserves it, there's going to be maybe some people out there that don't want to give it to Lamar back to back and for his third time is going to vote Saquon. And then I think that's going to actually help put Josh Allen over the edge.
- [11:03]
Bobby Skinner
Man, I would love to flex the fact that I got like my MVP pick. Right. With Josh Allen.
- [11:09]
Justin Pennock
Yeah.
- [11:09]
Bobby Skinner
But, yeah, I just don't think he's deserving. Like, to me, he's. He's. Right now he's third place.
- [11:18]
Justin Pennock
And so I checked in on total EPA. Do you know who's number one in the NFL and total EPA right now?
- [11:23]
Bobby Skinner
It's Allen. And then Lamar is like 0.2 behind him. Right.
- [11:26]
Justin Pennock
Total. Well, again, this. Everybody maybe calculates it differently. You shouldn't calculate EPA differently.
- [11:31]
Bobby Skinner
There's no way you calculate that differently.
- [11:33]
Justin Pennock
Total epa. Lamar is number three. Josh Allen is number two.
- [11:39]
Bobby Skinner
And this is number one.
- [11:41]
Justin Pennock
Joe Burrows, number one. Which that, you know, Joe Burrow is also. It should, should low key be in this mix.
- [11:49]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah. And that's where I'll concede, like, when it's like, oh, we'll talk about the, like, if you have a losing record, you can't be in the MVP award race. That's just the reality of it. But like, Joe Burrow does belong in the conversation somewhat. Yeah, but like, the idea of, like, oh, well, Josh Allen has less to work with. It's like, what, Like, I'm sorry, I'm having Rashad Bateman as your number two wide receiver is, is not some, some situation where it, it, it harms you when it comes to award season. You know, if you want to talk about, like, oh, well, this team, you know, Joe Burrow having. If, if this was Joe Burrow you're talking about having Jamar Chase and T. Higgins and all that. Maybe. But like, the Ravens O line is not an advantage. No, they're not a good pass blocking unit. You know, like, they, like, they have like, negatives on that offensive line. So like, again, people get bored with like, Lamar's rush. If Lamar was dropped into the NFL this year and he had this season, I don't think it'd be. Do you think it'd be an argument if Lamar had never won an mvp? Do you think Lamar would be like the clear cut MVP favorite right now?
- [12:57]
Justin Pennock
Oh, if he. Yes, yes. But because he's. Well, he won it last year.
- [13:02]
Bobby Skinner
Bullshit. It's bullshit.
- [13:04]
Justin Pennock
No, but what Lamar is doing is. It's just, it's. That's out of this fucking world. Out of this world, man, with the, the pet. The pet. Like, we thought what he did, you know me, even last year, it's like, oh, you.
- [13:16]
Bobby Skinner
Last year, one of the worst statistically statistical MVPs.
- [13:20]
Justin Pennock
But there was a big talking point that I had last year and I remember Ben Solak had it, had it last year of like, stats can't properly measure Lamar's impact. And he crumbled that talking point up this year, threw it to the side and it's like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do what I do in terms of running the ball and being valuable and being dangerous to defenses, and I'm going to bring the passing stats with me this year and I'm going to do that. And no, I, I never thought that Lamar would be this good of a passer in terms of the advanced numbers to kind of follow him. I, I knew that he's good and you know, know that he can Be like this top three QB in the NFL even without these passing numbers. But the fact that he has these passing numbers now backing him up is nuts, man. It's nuts.
- [14:05]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah. And, and to me, but here's my thing is Lamar, Lamar, Lamar beat Josh Allen this year. If he like if you want to have the win loss part of this, like, yeah. So I'm not going to let the difference between 10 and 5 and 12 and 3 be like, well that gives this guy the edge. Even though he's worse in every statistical category.
- [14:24]
Justin Pennock
Saquon Barkley also technically beat Derrick Henry.
- [14:27]
Bobby Skinner
There you go.
- [14:28]
Justin Pennock
There you go.
- [14:29]
Bobby Skinner
That should not be play too much of a part of it. So official. You're, you are Lamar. I'm going to say Lamar right now, but I'm mind just telling you right now, if saquon gets within 10 rushing yards of Eric Dickerson and two more touchdowns, it goes him. And if he breaks the Eric Dickerson rushing record and he doesn't win MVP, I'll be outraged.
- [14:57]
Justin Pennock
267 yards over the next two games. That's 133.5.
- [15:04]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah. Very doable for him. I mean that's just average 12 more yards per game than what he's averaging against two bad run defenses with the Cowboys and Giants.
- [15:12]
Justin Pennock
And especially if Jalen Hurts is out, they will just be giving him the ball.
- [15:16]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah. And he won't. You know, and here's the other thing is like you want to talk about like being hurt by like Saquon should have like on any other team he'd have like eight more touchdowns. But Jalen Hurts gets the one yard touchdowns on that.
- [15:27]
Justin Pennock
This is true.
- [15:28]
Bobby Skinner
All right. Offensive player of the year. This is probably a little less thrilling because we're talking about this guy in mvp. It's, it's Saquon Barkley, correct?
- [15:36]
Justin Pennock
Yeah. Yeah.
- [15:37]
Bobby Skinner
This was once a conversation with Derek Henry. Henry does have the same yards per carry. Just has two less carries per game than, than him. Both 13 rushing touchdowns. But Saquon, like I said, I have a little more. I think Jamar Chase, you know, is, is a fun year. I think he could have gotten on any other years. 1500 receiving yards, 16 touchdowns. You, you know, that's 130 more yards than second place. And Justin Jefferson, it's four more touchdowns than Terry McLaurin with, with you know, 12 and second place. But Saquon, he's, he's going to get the 2000. He gets offensive player of the year. It's probably pretty simple, right?
- [16:15]
Justin Pennock
Yeah. Yeah, just, just based on that. I mean, Henry is better in terms of the yards, yards after contact, he's broken more tackles. But there's just no arguing. There's no arguing what Saquon Barkley's done. Saquon's also played a lot more than Derrick Henry, too. If I were to tell you the percentage of available offensive snaps, Derrick Henry, I think this is.
- [16:37]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah, they don't use Henry in the receiving game at all.
- [16:39]
Justin Pennock
55.8% of the offensive snaps for Derrick Henry versus Saquon Barkley, 73.4. So that's kind of shocking. But Saquon deserves it. I mean, there's really no, there's no if, ands or buts that you can come with.
- [16:52]
Bobby Skinner
Why don't you talk to us about something, Justin, before we talk about defensive player of the year?
- [16:55]
Justin Pennock
I will. Today's episode is sponsored by DraftKings. Grab your favorite team's jersey and some snacks and head to the couch for another Sunday or even midweek action packed football midweek action to get excited for that. Get even closer to the action each Sunday with our partners at the DraftKings sportsbook. Right now, all new customers bet just $5. You're going to get $150 in bonus bets if your bet wins when you use our code Football today. Stay in on the action. Use your $150 in bonus bets on DraftKings. Same game parlays, first shot at an even bigger payout. And if sports betting is not yet available in your state, don't worry, you could still join in on all the fun with DraftKings Daily Fantasy and have a shot to win cash prizes. So download the DraftKings sportsbook app right now. New customers use pro use our promo code football today. All one word bet $5 on the wager. Get $150 of bonus bets if your bet wins. That's promo code football today only at the DraftKings sportsbook. You will be glad you did.
- [17:54]
Bobby Skinner
You'll be glad you did. Defensive play of the year, man. There's no clear cut guy here, right? Because all the guys, all the pass rushers are similar in the sack totals and even tackle. There's like not big discrepancies in tackles for loss. I'm going Miles Garrett again though.
- [18:15]
Justin Pennock
Okay.
- [18:16]
Bobby Skinner
He's second in sacks behind Trey Hendrickson by with by one or one and a half, I believe. He's first in tackles for loss, tied with T.J. watt. He has the most total pressure for, you know, sacks, hits and pressures for edge, only one behind Chris Jones, who's a defensive tackle number one in pass rush win rate. This is an edge award. I don't think there's any corners who are making a play at it this year. I know Kirby Joseph, Xavier McKinney. I take McKinney over Kirby Joseph in this. I'm going Miles Garrett. Do you, do you think he's going to get it though, because he's on the Cleveland Browns?
- [18:52]
Justin Pennock
No, I think it's going to go to T.J. watt again. And I, and I, I don't even think that because T.J. watts on the Steelers. I think it be. I think TJ Watt deserves it because of what he does as a run defender. Not to say that Miles Garrett's a bad run defender. I just think T.J. watt is.
- [19:09]
Bobby Skinner
I think Miles Garrett's a better run defender.
- [19:11]
Justin Pennock
Really?
- [19:14]
Bobby Skinner
Miles Garrett gets the tackles for losses without doing the work outside in type stuff. He just sets the edge and still gets those tackles for a loss.
- [19:23]
Justin Pennock
I mean, yeah, I think average depth of tackle, like again, I'm going off of some numbers, which it's tough to give numbers for run defense. I definitely think that's more of a film. It's more of a film like, hey, is this guy. Can. Can he set an edge? Is he stronger? You need to watch that type of. And I'm not watching both any of these guys like down and down out to say who's actually better. But I know average depth of tackle. TJ Walk gets the edge. I know run stop rate. I think TJ Walk gets the edge and, and like that. So I know TJ Watt leads him more force fumbles. So that's it as a pass rusher. Plus you can force a fumble as a run defender too. So that's why I would give it to, to G. T.J. watt, just because I think overall more complete. However, like, there are guys that are legitimately better pass rushers than TJ Watt though, because TJ Watt, one of the critiques that, that he's had as the years have gone on is guys like Miles Garrett, Hendrickson. There's a, you know, a good amount of guys in the league that are better at getting pressure than T.J. watt. But T.J. watt is just such a good finisher. He finishes every year. Every year.
- [20:24]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah. And if he had a, like a three sack lead on them, then I'd say, yeah, like this is defensive player of the year is kind of like sacks matter more than total pressure.
- [20:35]
Justin Pennock
Yeah.
- [20:35]
Bobby Skinner
You know, but at the end of the day, Miles Garrett has more sacks. And if we're talking about total like pressure. Let's see, Where's Miles? Garrett's first for edges.
- [20:45]
Justin Pennock
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta because Watts 24th. Yeah, he doesn't have the hurries.
- [20:50]
Bobby Skinner
He's 24th. Pass rush win rate of Miles get 11% better pressure percentage. He's 4% better. Like again, I don't get voter fatigue. I'm giving it to Miles Garrett. And I actually think Andrew Van Ginkel has like a better case this year for, than T.J. watt. You know, he's top five in sacks and tackles for a loss. He has interceptions. I've turned the touchdowns or at least one. Yeah, I think both his, I think both his interceptions went for touchdowns. One on Daniel Jones, one on Aaron Rodgers and the London game. So. And then McKinney's in there too.
- [21:34]
Justin Pennock
But no Trey Hendrickson.
- [21:37]
Bobby Skinner
No Trey Hendrickson is, is like in there with, with those three. What I'm saying is like if people just edge versus edge. I'm taking Miles Garrett and then Andrew Van Ginkel. I think the two interceptions while being top five, that can be a differentiator for him where I don't think there's a differentiator between Hendrickson and Garrett and then McKinney. I think if McKinney had like three interceptions in the last two games and you get double digit interceptions, I think you could give it to him. But in reality it's just so hard for a DB and especially a safety to get this award.
- [22:09]
Justin Pennock
Yeah, yeah, I still, I still give the edge to Watt though.
- [22:15]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah, I'm going Miles Garrett. All right, time for Offensive Rookie of the year. So some would say this is easy and it is easy to predict who it's going to be just because Jaden Daniels is going to win Offensive Rookie of the Year. I have not made my final decision on what I'm going to say on this because Jaden Daniels has had a phenomenal season. He has 3,300 passing yards, 22 passing touchdowns, eight interceptions. He has 737 rushing yards and seven touchdowns. Brock Bowers is either going to have the second best tight end rookie year ever, which it will be the second best. Mike Dick does his better, but he played less games. But so he's gonna have the second best tight end receiving yard receiving season ever. He's eighth in receiving yards for the entire NFL. He's second in catches. Like he's setting records, Justin. And I feel like that should matter. And this is not. It's offensive rookie of the Year. It's not most valuable, right. So you don't get to play that same argument that you do with the MVP position. But here's the reason why I'm going to go Jaden Daniels Justin is because he has 737 rush yards. Like that is not a small number. He's 14th in rushing yards this year for all the NFL. He's 10th in touchdowns. And even just looking at rookies, right. Like he has 120 less rushing yards than Bucky Irving who's the most for rookie running backs and he has more than Tyrone Tracy who's second for rookie running backs. So have if he had like a 400 to 500 yard rushing season, Jaden Daniels, that'd be really good be like top three for quarterbacks. But be having that much to me makes me say Jaden Daniels. If I'm telling you if it was 300, 200, 300 yards lower, which is a lot of yards, I would be going Brock Bowers because what he's doing. But at the end of the day I got to go Jaden Daniels.
- [24:11]
Justin Pennock
Yeah. Jaden Daniels is going to Finish with over 30 total touchdowns on the area, 22 passing. He has six rushing right now. So he's. You think he's going to finish with more than two through the final two games of the season. Interception rate is low enough in a. Low enough for a rookie that you can, that you can really live with. If he's going to finish the year with below 10 then that's solid. He has eight right now. Close to a 70% completion rate. But I mean you do look at Brock Bowers line and the fact that there's 101 reception, 137 target 1067 yards, the fact that that's the only line on his profile reference page right now and there's more to come.
- [24:47]
Bobby Skinner
It's amazing.
- [24:48]
Justin Pennock
It's, it's. It is incredible. Like it's one of the best seasons that we've ever seen from a tight end. Now my, my only question is this is kind of like an question. I if the Raiders get better and that's an if, if the Raiders get better and if they add more targets, is is that production always going to be there? Probably not. And is that a referendum on Brock Bowers as a player? But regardless, that's not sure.
- [25:15]
Bobby Skinner
At the same time their passing offense is terrible. You know what I'm saying? So like yeah. Will he get the same target share? No, but I think he'll be cracking a thousand plus every single season. Like, he's a special player, but that.
- [25:27]
Justin Pennock
Also shouldn't impact Rookie of the Year voting. Like. No, that question should not.
- [25:32]
Bobby Skinner
No, no. Now, I will say I was on the Brock Bowers train until Jaden Daniels had five passing touchdowns versus the Eagles.
- [25:43]
Justin Pennock
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Bobby Skinner
Because then, then I'm arguing like the passing touchdowns are too low to put them over a historic tight end rookie season. But getting. Getting to that 22. Like I said, it's not great. You know, he's like, I say, he's 10th in passing touchdowns this year. 14th. And passing yards, like, those are. Those are good. Not great. Where Brock Bauer's numbers are great. Just, you know, next to his peers at his position and not just rookies. But at the end of the day, I just think the rushing yards for Jaden Daniels puts him as the clear winner here.
- [26:18]
Justin Pennock
Yeah. And I also think there's moments for Jaden Daniels, right, Like Bowers.
- [26:23]
Bobby Skinner
There's none.
- [26:24]
Justin Pennock
Yeah. Like what's, what's going to be the highlight reel, man, that you're going to show the, that Saturday night, the award show, just Brock Bowers catching a bunch of balls. You know what I mean? But Jaden Daniels, there's the Eagles game, there's the, there's the Hail Mary, there's the, there's the Bengals game where he's making some of those magic deep throats. So there's. There's moments with, you know, with Jaden Daniels and then if he even, you know, goes on maybe even a little bit of a playoff run and depending on how they do, if for Brock Bowers, it's just, man, look at this guy catching the ball. Which, that's not a, it's not a shot at Bowers. It's just Daniels has had more of those moments. The team has won a little bit. So it's going to be just sexier to give it to him.
- [26:59]
Bobby Skinner
If Bowers had like eight or nine receiving touchdowns, maybe I'd still be going for him. But that. Go, Jaden dance. All right, Defensive rookie of the year. Now, this has kind of been slam dunk all year, but I will say, Justin, Jared Verse was a slam dunk in this. And it's like Kenyon Mitchell's having a great year, but what Jared versus doing is different. And he plays the edge position, which gives him a little bit of an edge, no pun intended. But Jared versus had zero sacks and zero tackles for a loss in the last six games. Now, he still played really well. He's been disruptive. He is fourth and, you know, for edges in the entire NFL and total sacks, hits and pressures. He's ninth and past rush win rate. So it's not those. Zero sacks, zero tackles for loss are not a referendum on. Teams are figuring them out a little bit. It's just kind of the nature of the edge position is sometimes you will go a little bit of dry spell on the counting stats. But are you still being disruptive? He has been, but I'm still giving Jared Verse the defensive rookie of the year over Kenyon.
- [27:55]
Justin Pennock
I am too. But for the sake of. Let's just talk about another player. For the sake of talking about another.
- [28:01]
Bobby Skinner
Player, here comes Chop Robinson.
- [28:04]
Justin Pennock
God darn it. Yeah, man. Chop has played half the defensive snaps this year. I thought he was hurt and I think he was, but maybe they were kind of holding him back. It says that he's played in 15 games, but he's only appeared in 51.2% of the defensive snaps.
- [28:22]
Bobby Skinner
While.
- [28:22]
Justin Pennock
While Jared versus played 77.3 drop. Robinson has more sacks than Jared Verse now. I think Jared Verse is a better run defender and I think Chop Robinson has like an obscene like 35% missed tackle rate right now. So there's issues that Chop Robinson's got to work on. I think he's got to work on balance issues, but man, is he a. Is he a fun watch in terms of speed and power and he blends the two. And you know, offensive linemen at times are trying to, you know, chop his hands down and he just bull rushes right into him saying, bring it on. So Chop Robinson towards the second half of this year has been really, really fun to watch. And I think. I think Chop was hurt. I think if he didn't have that slow start or the slow injury, whatever. Even if Chop Robinson has these same issues, I think he would be defensive rookie of the year Chop. Just because his numbers would be better than Jared Verse. Some of the numbers are better than Jared Verse right now. And he's only basically played half the season.
- [29:18]
Bobby Skinner
Yeah, I just think Jared Verse brings you more of a run. But Kenyon Mitchell, man, he's right up there. He gave up his first touchdown this previous week, but like nine pass breakups is a lot now. No, no interceptions will hurt him when it comes to award season, which even though it's not the most fair thing in the world, like you, when we're talking about awards, cornerbacks just need to have interceptions to be to getting those awards.
- [29:43]
Justin Pennock
Where did he fall?
- [29:45]
Bobby Skinner
Kenyon? I think he went what, 4, 20? No, he went 27. Yeah, I mean, just.
- [29:51]
Justin Pennock
Just the best defensive player in the draft.
- [29:53]
Bobby Skinner
Maybe, maybe, maybe we're going to screw up the draft next year, Justin. But I feel like, I feel great about our evals in this last draft cycle. Even like Cam Kenshin's right. Like, he's had an awesome year since the Rams put him in, you know, And Jared Verse and Kenyon Mitchell were our number one and number two defensive players in the draft.
- [30:12]
Justin Pennock
Yeah, I fell in love with them at the Senior Bowl. Fell in love?
- [30:15]
Bobby Skinner
Well, Kenyon was at the senior bow in the Jared version. Like, this guy's film is like, I don't know why anyone's talking about law to over this cat.
- [30:20]
Justin Pennock
Yeah.
- [30:20]
Bobby Skinner
And then Kenyon was just as advertised, Kenyan. Definitely fell in love with the Senior bowl where I like because of his level of competition. He played at Toledo. I think he may have. Hell, he went 22nd anyways. But he was talking about as a late first rounder going in. And then I thought he would have gotten into like the top 12. You know, us as Giants fans, Justin, we said like, if we trade back, my target is like, Kenyon Mitchell quickly coach coach of the year Kevin O'Connell. Teams, you know, team with low expectations might end up with the number one seed. Resurrect Sam Darnold. You know, getting that defense to fit Brian Flores. I think one of the underrated things is self evaluating and knowing when to fire guys. The Vikings firing Kevin oconnell firing their defensive coordinator is like the difference between him and a guy like Shane Steichen. You talk about all the good offensive mind stuff. Can you run a team? So Kevin OConnell is my coach of the year, but I, I kind of don't care about coach of year at all.
- [31:14]
Justin Pennock
I think Dan Quinn deserves it. Just what he's. What I. I thought this was going to be bad. I thought Washington's like, they don't have talent. Their offensive line is terrible. The hire of Cliff Kingsbury was bad. That was the main reason of pessimism. Forget what they've done with the roster. Forget Dan Qu himself. I thought the hire of Cliff Kingsbury was going to tank the commanders. And at least in year one, it literally has not. It has helped them rise above with their run game and how they've used Jaden Daniels and that defense being just good enough. They're not great. But I think Dan Quinn has got these guys believing. And I think that's the most important part about this OConnell. We knew he was a good coach, but Dan Quinn kind of coming in here second, you know second life as a head coach. I think he deserves it this year.
- [32:00]
Bobby Skinner
All right, Comeback player of the year. I'm going to go Tim Patrick, shout out Tim Coffey.
- [32:05]
Justin Pennock
Yeah, okay. Yes.
- [32:07]
Bobby Skinner
We'll see you when we see you. Have a great Wednesday. Until then, this is Football Today.
- [32:12]
Scott Patterson
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- [34:17]
Bobby Skinner
It's gone.
- [34:19]
Scott Patterson
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- [34:27]
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- [34:42]
Scott Patterson
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