The Best of The Dan Patrick Show

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show: The Best of June 2, 2026

Host: Dan Patrick
Featured Guests: Lewis Riddick, Jim Jackson
Main Theme: Breaking down the NFL’s blockbuster trades (Miles Garrett, A.J. Brown), team-building philosophies in the NFL and NBA, personality dynamics in superstar trades, and key NBA Finals narratives.

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Episode Overview

On this episode, Dan Patrick dives into a seismic day in sports with major NFL trades—Miles Garrett to the Rams and A.J. Brown to the Patriots—and their ripple effect on franchises, fan expectations, and even the psychology of star athletes. He is joined by NFL analyst Lewis Riddick to provide deep football insights and by NBA veteran Jim Jackson, who assesses NBA Finals matchups and how young stars grow into legends.
The show is rich in insider anecdotes, strategic breakdowns, and reflections on the philosophy of building winning teams.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL BLOCKBUSTER: Miles Garrett to the Rams

[01:46–07:31] Dan Patrick Monologue

• Rams’ Aggressive All-In Move

  • Dan highlights the context: the Rams, “one of the favorites” for the Super Bowl, trade for elite pass rusher Miles Garrett, adding him to their growing collection of all-pro defenders (including Trent McDuffie).
  • They traded away promising rookie Jared Verse, a move that may benefit both LA (win-now) and Cleveland (future-focused).

• Why Did Cleveland Finally Pull the Trigger?

  • The Browns' refusal to trade Miles Garrett earlier was puzzling to Dan, but he concedes they did well given Garrett's age (30, coming off the sack record).
  • “I don't know why you didn’t trade Miles Garrett the year before when he did want out...Now at 30 going on 31, I think you did pretty well trading him away.” (Dan, 05:34)
  • The Browns are now stocked with picks and young assets but must solve the Deshaun Watson question.

• Poll Question/Rams’ Expectations

  • “This is a move you make to win the Super Bowl and I think anything other than winning the super bowl or getting to the super bowl would be a disappointment.” (Dan, 09:34)
  • Discussion about which teams have the best odds: Rams, Bills, Ravens, Seahawks, Chiefs.

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2. A.J. Brown Trade: Patriots-Eagles Deal

[07:45–10:53] Dan Patrick Monologue

• Eagles’ Masterclass in Asset Management

  • Dan applauds Eagles GM Howie Roseman for flipping A.J. Brown (age 29) for a first and fifth after two Super Bowl trips and four 1,000-yard seasons since acquiring him for a first and third in 2022.
  • “Wait, you’re going to give me four great seasons, two Super Bowl appearances, we win one Super Bowl, and now I get a first and a fifth back? That’s pretty good as well.” (Dan, 07:45)

• Chemistry Issues

  • Speculation: Couldn’t coexist with Jalen Hurts; Brown now goes to New England with rookie Drake May.

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3. Could Aaron Donald Un-Retire?

[12:25–17:46] Dan Patrick Roundtable

• Recruitment After the Garrett Trade
  • With Aaron Donald still looking “like an active football player,” Dan wonders if the Rams will try (again) to lure him back for a Super Bowl run, even as a rotation/home-games player.
  • “He looked like an active football player. He was asked about coming back...Now all of a sudden, you’re not the focal point. They’re not going to be double teaming you.” (Dan, 12:34)
• Physical Toll vs. Possibility
  • Discussion of the challenge of returning after stepping away, especially for a tackle, but consensus: “He could step on the field right now...He’d give you double digit sacks right now.” (Lewis Riddick, 30:16)

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4. NFL Team Building Philosophy (w/ Lewis Riddick)

[21:14–37:38] Interview: Lewis Riddick

Life as a Player/Team Culture Anecdotes

• Riddick shares stories about weight checks under Belichick ($50 per pound per day for missing weight) and Nick Saban’s more supportive coaching style. (21:14–24:01)

Cleveland’s Trade Cycle & Rebuilds

• “They’re always seeming to reset, rebuild, trying to restock the cupboards, gain draft picks...This is the cycle they’re in.” (Riddick, 25:10)
• Cleveland’s identity crisis: always in the news for off-season moves, rarely for regular-season success.

Greatest Defensive Force: Donald or Garrett?

• Both Dan and Riddick take Aaron Donald over Miles Garrett: “If you gave me the choice between a guy who can create unique, transcendent pressure on the interior or a guy who can do it on the exterior, I’m taking the guy on the interior.” (Riddick, 26:41)

The Rams' “Transfer Portal” Model

• Dan likens Rams’ top talent acquisitions to a college transfer portal—big ticket stars added atop solid drafting.

A.J. Brown: What Really Happened in Philly?

• “Chemistry, personality...I’m not saying A.J. has the wrong personality—people in Philadelphia love A.J., but it just wasn’t mixing anymore.” (Riddick, 32:16)
• “It was best to go... Okay, you know what? Let’s move on. Addition by subtraction.” (32:55)
• Roseman's trade acumen lauded by both.

Cleveland’s Next Move at QB

• “It just feels like Cleveland’s going to have a new quarterback next year.” (Dan, 36:39)
• Riddick: “With all the draft capital they have now...this will be the most hyped and publicized draft since I’ve been doing it.” (36:51)

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5. NBA Finals Storylines & Player Development

[39:57–53:42] Interview: Jim Jackson

Chet Holmgren’s Playoff Performance

• Analysts are questioning Chet Holmgren’s future after a quiet performance vs. Wemby. Jackson cautions against premature judgments:
  • “Too many times we want to, based on a series, give up on a person when they’re still young and still learning.” (41:57)
  • “His body language, lack of aggressiveness...not just shooting, but not doing anything else. His stat line didn’t indicate that. That’s where the issue is.” (43:55)
• OKC’s options: only move Holmgren for an elite like Giannis.

NBA Finals: Knicks vs. Spurs (San Antonio) — Underdogs with Edge

• Both teams are perceived underdogs due to youth and uncertainty (Knicks: late momentum, Spurs: learning on the job).
• “That’s the beauty about this series, because there are still some little unknowns.” (Jim Jackson, 45:32)

Changing Basketball Language: Ball Hog vs. Ball Dominant

• “Correspondent with analytics...A James Harden, a Russell Westbrook, a Luka Doncic, Jalen Brunson...they have the ball in their hands a lot more and those analytics are going to look different...Back in the day, you just called someone a ball hog.” (Jim, 46:36)

Jalen Brunson’s Unlikely Excellence

• Brunson’s ability to operate in tight spaces comes from high IQ, fundamentals instilled at Villanova, and lack of reliance on athleticism.
  • “That’s why Jalen Brunson is so potent as a player, because he doesn’t rely on athleticism, but he can get to a spot, use his body, create space, and excellent footwork.” (Jim, 49:52)
• Dan: “The NBA is littered with guys who don’t look like they can be all-time greats...That’s the beauty of basketball.” (50:06)

Prediction: Knicks in Six

• “I like the Knicks in six...they have size...strategical advantage that gives them the edge.” (Jim, 52:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Browns' perpetual rebuild:

• “They’re always seeming to reset, rebuild, trying to restock the cupboards, gain draft picks...eventually they wind up trading their best player to reset it for the next coach.”
  —Lewis Riddick, [25:10]

On the value of interior pressure:

• “If you gave me the choice between a guy who can create unique, transcendent pressure on the interior or a guy who can do it on the exterior, I’m taking the guy on the interior.”
  —Lewis Riddick, [26:41]

On Jalen Brunson’s rise:

• “He doesn’t rely on athleticism, but he can get to a spot, use his body, create space and excellent footwork.”
  —Jim Jackson, [49:52]

On overreacting to playoff struggles:

• “Too many times we want to, based on a series, give up on a person when they’re still young and still learning.”
  —Jim Jackson, [41:57]

On chemistry ending A.J. Brown’s Philly tenure:

• “I’m not saying A.J. has the wrong personality—people in Philadelphia love A.J. brown. It just wasn’t mixing anymore...addition by subtraction.”
  —Lewis Riddick, [32:16–32:55]

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Segment | Time | |---------------------------------------------------|-----------| | Rams trade for Miles Garrett analysis | 01:46–07:31 | | A.J. Brown trade, Eagles' shrewd moves | 07:45–10:53 | | Should the Rams recruit Aaron Donald back? | 12:25–17:46 | | Lewis Riddick conversation: NFL team building | 21:14–37:38 | | Jim Jackson NBA Finals/Chet Holmgren talk | 39:57–53:42 |

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Conclusion

This dynamic episode provides sharp, insider discussions on two of the NFL’s boldest off-season moves, the calculus of trading superstars in their prime, the ever-evolving process of team-building, and an appreciation for basketball’s cerebral stars. Dan Patrick’s blend of humor, storytelling, and authenticity, partnered with expert insights from Lewis Riddick and Jim Jackson, make this must-listen analysis for fans of both football and basketball.

Transcript

[Dan Patrick]

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[Jim Jackson]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Lewis Riddick]

Of the day.

[Dan Patrick]

This is the status out of the day. And the Rams had been trying to get Miles Garrett for a couple of years. This wasn't just a overnight. Let's go for him. They've been trying for quite some time. I thought then when Miles Garrett wanted out, that he was going to end up with the Rams. They think that. You know, when you, when you think about the Cleveland Browns, they had to overpay DeSean Watson. Deshaun Watson wasn't going to Cleveland. They're like, what do you want? All of it, guaranteed. Okay, all right, I'll go to Cleveland. Miles Garrett wanted out. What do you want? I want to be the highest paid defensive player in the game. All right, you got it. That's the only way. They got these big ticket items. Now. You're moving away from that now and you're going to eventually have to pay Jared Verse. But that can be a good thing if he produces the way you want him to, you hope. And he's only 25, so. I like what Cleveland did. I. I don't know why you didn't trade Miles Garrett the year before when he did one out, but I wondered if maybe you weren't going to get the return you thought. But he would have been 29 at the time. Now at 30 going on 31. And I think you did pretty well trading him away. You got a lot of attention with the sack record. Nobody is really, you know, tuning in to see a Cleveland Browns game unless they're just the curiosity of Shador Sanders and Miles Garrett. Well, I don't even know if Shador is going to be your starter this year, but for the Cleveland Browns, I think they did a pretty good job yesterday. I'm sure Joe Burrow probably went. Wait, he got traded?

[Lewis Riddick]

Where?

[Dan Patrick]

Lamar Jackson? That'd be funny if Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson called up each other. Hey, did you hear the news? Yeah, I know. How do you feel? A lot healthier. A lot healthier. All right, Dylan.

[Dylan]

Alrighty, Dan. We got a few options. Paulie sent this one over. Who had the best day yesterday? The Browns? The Rams? Miles Garrett or other, perhaps maybe the NFL at large for usurping all the attention. NHL and NBA playoffs.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Well, okay. The Patriots wanted A.J. brown and the Eagles, Howie Roseman, their GM probably thought. All right, well, let you. And, and I, I. This is why Howie Roseman is great. The Eagles traded a first and a third round pick for A.J. brown back in 2022. They got four 1,000 yard seasons. They made two Super Bowls. They won a Super Bowl. Now you trade a 29 year old A.J. brown to the Patriots for a first and a fifth round pick. That's pretty good stuff there by the Eagles. GM Wait, you're going to give me four great seasons, two super bowl appearances, we win one super bowl and now I get a first and a fifth back. That's pretty good as well. So I wouldn't sleep on what the Eagles did and why AJ Brown just couldn't coexist with Jalen Hurts. But now he goes with Drake May he can be the featured guy. You don't have to worry about, you know, a running back who wants to get 15 to 1800 yards. Devonte Smith and Dallas Goddard, everybody wants to, you know, get their touches. Now you go to New England, you can be the number one guy. By the way, this first hour brought to you by McGuire's McGuire's Quick Solution Kits Remove the guesswork when cleaning your car. The kits come with products that you need to tackle the job and the drill attachment brush for faster cleaning. So grab your drill McGuire's quick solution kit for your next car sleep. That's McGuire celebrating 125 years of passion. What else do you have there?

[Dylan]

Dylan Post Miles Garrett trade. The Rams are winning it all. Winning the nfc, winning their division or missing the playoffs.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, they better win the Super Bowl. Yeah, this is a move you make to win the super bowl and I think anything other than winning the super bowl or getting to the super bowl would be a disappointment. And they're over under now is eleven and a half. I'm not sure if it was ten and a half before, but they're one of the favorites. If not, you know the Ravens are up there. The Rams, Seattle's going to be back up there. But the Rams are expected to be playing for a Super Bowl. Yes. Dylan?

[Dylan]

Yeah, I mean of the. These are the top five teams odds wise to win the Super Bowl. So it's rams plus 600, bills plus a thousand ravens plus a thousand seahawks plus 1100 and chiefs plus 1500. Would you take the rams out of that five some

[Dan Patrick]

I probably. If I'm trying to get better odds, I might take Kansas City. I mean it's a roll of the dice with Kelsey coming back. Mahomes availability. What are they going to do with the wide receiver position? I thought they did well with their Defense, you're in a tough division. So does Buffalo get it right one of these years? Yes, Dylan?

[Dylan]

Yeah, I mean, that's the longest preseason odds the Chiefs have been probably in a while. But it's also. I'm always. I don't want to say a sucker for, but I like when, like, a team that's been had a great run, people view them as they've sort of died off a little bit, and then everyone forgets about them, and then all of a sudden, they're in the super bowl again. You're like, how did we not see that one coming?

[Dan Patrick]

And. And, you know, the Bengals might be a team that I would take a flyer on, but, you know, if everybody stays healthy, you know, maybe. But if you're looking for longer odds instead of just going with the favorites, I'd probably say that. All right, we'll go settle on our poll question. 877.3DP show email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle it DP Show Hurricane's a slight favorite over the Golden Knights. The Knicks are still getting four and a half against the spurs for the game tomorrow night, and the spurs are a slight favorite with that as well. We'll talk some basketball with Jim Jackson and Lewis Riddick, and the Mothership will dissect the trades that happened yesterday. As soon as I found out Miles Garrett was traded, I said to Fritzi, reach out to Aaron Donald. He goes, okay, Why? I said, because the Rams are probably saying, reach out to Aaron Donald. We just got Miles Garrett, and I thought, Aaron Donald post all these videos on social media. He's working out. What is he, 32, 33? Yeah, Paulie. I have him just turning 35 years old.

[Lewis Riddick]

Oh, 10 days ago.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. All right. Basically 30. A young 35, he was benching the

[Commercial Announcer]

other day with dumbbells that were 160 pounds each.

[Dan Patrick]

He looked like an active football player. He was asked about coming back. Now, this is Back in April, the Not Just Football podcast. This is April at the NFL draft.

[Lewis Riddick]

When I even want, people ask me all the time, like, you sure you don't want to play?

[Jim Jackson]

I'll be like, to be honest with

[Lewis Riddick]

you, I have no urge to play football no more. Sometimes the back of my head, I'd be like, do I want to go out there? Can I think about this?

[Jim Jackson]

And I'm like, nah, man.

[Lewis Riddick]

I'm like, I was a guy that never wanted to play forever, but I always said I was gonna do eight

[Jim Jackson]

years and be done.

[Lewis Riddick]

I just happened to win a Super Bowl.

[Jim Jackson]

My eighth year, I'm like, man, this is destiny.

[Lewis Riddick]

And then. But it's kind of addictive to, like, you can't just win a Super bowl and walk away. It's like, you want to experience that again. So, yeah, I wasn't fully done. I still had that. I wanted to experience that again.

[Jim Jackson]

I know Sean calls you every year.

[Dan Patrick]

It's like, I'm gonna say the first.

[Lewis Riddick]

The first two years, they would still be talking. They talk about it, but it kind

[Dan Patrick]

of quiet down because you kind of

[Lewis Riddick]

know where I'm at.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. I'd still reach out. That was April before you got Miles Garrett. Now all of a sudden, you're not the focal point. They're not going to be double teaming you. You might go, super bowl is in Los Angeles. You still live in la. Maybe you just say to him, how about you play in the home game? Yeah, you can do a Roger Clemens deal with Houston. Or was that the Yankees? Was it Houston? Marvin? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'd just say, hey, you want to. We won't even make you go to Australia to start the season. You can just come play, you know, practice, go home, play a game, go home. You don't have to worry about any road trips here. Yes, Todd, but what about the element

[Jim Jackson]

of, like, being away all this time is not getting regular hits? You know, you're in the gym and you're working out.

[Dan Patrick]

That's like a hockey player.

[Jim Jackson]

I'm still doing drills and skating all around the ice, but you're not getting checked against the boards or anything like that.

[Dan Patrick]

It's a very different thing, working out than actually playing. Thank you, Todd. I'm guessing Aaron Donald would be able to quickly replicate or get that feeling back when you think about this, though. And I'd make a. Make him a rotation player, let him, you know, come in on third downs, second down, whatever you want to do. But when you think about certain players at certain positions, they're hitting, getting hit on every single play. You know, if you're the center, tackle, guard, every single play, nose tackle, defensive tackle, every single play, you get hit. Wide receivers don't. Quarterbacks don't. Wide receivers don't. Defensive backs not necessarily on every single play. So maybe Aaron Donald's like, I'm just getting tired of getting hit, even though he was the one doing the hitting. But I would be reaching out to him and. Or I would. I would say, hey, why don't you stop by? Miles Garrett's gonna have his press conference there.

[Lewis Riddick]

Hey.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, wait, here's your jersey. There and it's in your locker is still here. I'd be like, you know, just give it a thought here, give it maybe, maybe just a little bit. Yeah. Paul.

[Lewis Riddick]

I think this is a real topic.

[Dan Patrick]

Aaron Donald retired quite early. He was generally healthy. Guys like Reggie White played till their late 30s. Bruce Smith was four time All Pro

[Lewis Riddick]

after the age of 30.

[Dan Patrick]

You give him, like you said, you

[Lewis Riddick]

just, you practice a little bit rotation

[Dan Patrick]

player, pay him $2 million per sack and say that's it, just play in the home games. Yeah, practice. MacDus, you're going to be hosting the Super Bowl. Why not? Yes. Dylan.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I mean, I do think also too, there's certain positions that just coming in cold after not playing, like probably offensive and defensive line because it's like you said, it's more just there's a physicality and being in shape element. But like skill positions. If you're like a receiver and you haven't caught balls in a couple of years, like there might be a bit more of a learning curve coming back.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. But these guys are working out year round. But if you got, I mean, Aaron Donald played the position as well, if not better than anybody else who's played that position. And there are a lot of great players who played that right on, you know, the nose right on the center. And he disrupted people. I always said he disrupts an offense more than any of these edge rushers. If you said I could have Miles Garrett peak, Aaron Donald, peak, I'm taking Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald goes up the middle. Now my quarterback is forced to be out of the pocket whether, if you're going to have an edge rusher. All right, I know he's over here on this side and I can steer the offense. I'm always geared here. I can double him up over here. Even doubling Aaron Donald, he would get up the middle, he would disrupt the offense far more than an edge rusher. Yeah. Paulie, he retired after the 2023 season.

[Lewis Riddick]

That's not that long ago. You know, it's not five years, it's

[Dan Patrick]

two and a half.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Serena Williams coming back. Aaron Donald can come back. Yes, Dylan. Yeah.

[Dylan]

And he did say in that clip we played that he won the super bowl in his eighth season. And he was like, I thought I'd be done. But then you win one, you're like, maybe I can do that again. If he views this as his best chance to win a second one, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

[Lewis Riddick]

Be sure to catch the live edition

[Dan Patrick]

of the Dan Patrick show weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube

[Lewis Riddick]

and you can be a part of it.

[Dan Patrick]

Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows. Two pros and a cup of Joe Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Stu Godson company Live, Cavino and Rich, the Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington, the Jason Smith show with Mike Harmon and the Ben Maller Show. Fox sports radio on YouTube. Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away. Lot to celebrate this summer and you can do so in style with Miller Lite. If you're going to celebrate the birth of our nation, that's 250 years. Well, Miller Light's been around 50 of those 250. What did we do the other 200 years without it? If our soccer team is scoring a big goal or just a warm evening on the deck, it's Miller Time in America. That's why I reach for a Miller Light. And you should, too. Miller Lite is perfect to kick off the summer or a sporting event. 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. It's a great choice without weighing you down. Simple ingredients, malted barley for that rich balanced toffee note flavors and you know, that iconic golden color. An all American summer starts with an all American beer. Miller lite. Go to millerlight.com Patrick and find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Lewis Riddick]

I turned off news altogether.

[Dan Patrick]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Lewis Riddick]

We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Commercial Announcer]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts.

[Lewis Riddick]

Let's move forward from there.

[Dan Patrick]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Dan Patrick]

EVs.

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They have fewer parts, fewer repairs, fewer headaches. And with hundreds of new and used EV models available today. There's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. Trust me, the way forward is electric. Learn [e-mail] hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for

[Dan Patrick]

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[Lewis Riddick]

weight official right now.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Lewis Riddick]

602-02-23.

[Dan Patrick]

223. All right. That's like football weight.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah, my, my official weight was 215. That's what I had to weigh in at. When I was in Oakland, we had to weigh in every day. Every day we walked in the facility under Gruden, we had to go right to the weight room and weigh in in Cleveland with Belichick, we weighed in every Friday and he stood there and it was 50, $50 per pound per day. So if you missed your weight on Friday, you had to weigh in Saturday. If you missed your weight on Saturday, you had to weigh in Monday after the game, and it was $50 per pound per day.

[Dan Patrick]

Who ended up spending the most?

[Lewis Riddick]

Back then, it was probably like a guy named, we had offensive guard named Wally Williams, an officer guard named Gene Williams. I used to always be in the steam room with guys like Eric Turner, Steve, because we were like bigger safeties. 215. Like 215. Like, like I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't eat to stay at 215. You know what I mean? So because you're young and you're grown, you got this. But yeah, yeah, I never, I never missed weight, though. I always made it.

[Dan Patrick]

I wonder about somebody like Sebastian Janikowski.

[Lewis Riddick]

Oh, that'd be a good one. I don't know, man. I don't know, but I know in group under Gruden, and it was like every single day you walked in there and you went, you made a beeline right for the weight room. Took your stuff off that on the scale, how was.

[Dan Patrick]

Everybody talks about Belichick sense of humor. Everybody says, oh, you would love him and I go, well, I'll never find out.

[Jim Jackson]

You.

[Dan Patrick]

You played for him.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah. There wasn't.

[Dan Patrick]

I mean, you guys weren't good enough

[Lewis Riddick]

in my experience, man. There wasn't a whole lot of sense of humor, man.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay?

[Lewis Riddick]

There wasn't a whole lot of. Now the guy. The guy who had a dry sense of humor, who you'd always, you know, you would see him kind of like get that little, you know, get that little smile on the crook was saving was like that. Like, Saban's a hard ass now, I'm telling you, he would lose it and then five seconds later he'd be laughing. He was the guy who, for me, I had more of the real relationship with when I was in Cleveland and being coached by those two dudes at the same time. I mean, I told the story a thousand times. Was something like, I don't know if that's for. That's not for the week. That's for sure. But Nick is the guy who really. Nick was the guy who has a pro. Really believed in my skills and really stood up for me and backed me, and he's why I played in Cleveland.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, you guys weren't good enough maybe for Belichick to have a sense of humor around you guys.

[Lewis Riddick]

That's true too. But we made the. We made the playoffs in 90 Dan. The 94 season. If we could have figured out a way to. To like, calm down Kevin Green and Greg Lloyd and Rod Woodson and those guys, we would. Made the super bowl that year. We had the best defense in the league, but our offense was, let's say, less than not good.

[Dan Patrick]

Who was your quarterback?

[Lewis Riddick]

There's a bunch of people. It was. Oh, it was Vinny Testaverde primarily. We just couldn't. We just didn't have any explosive component, man. We had Eric Metcalf, Tommy Vardell, Mark Carrier, Michael Jackson, guys like that, but we just. We just couldn't put it together consistently.

[Dan Patrick]

Touchdown, Tommy Bardell.

[Lewis Riddick]

There you go, man. Stanford.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, he scored them all there. He didn't score him in the end.

[Lewis Riddick]

Exactly. We scored. I think we scored more points than we did on offense that year.

[Dan Patrick]

How surprised were you that the Browns decided finally to move on from Miles Garrett?

[Lewis Riddick]

Look, it's kind of like what. I'm not shocked. Look, you know, teams that are always caught in this. In this. In this state of, you know, their evolution, so to speak, or their growth, which is. They're always seeming to reset, rebuild, trying to restock the covers, gain draft picks, sell hope, push it off till next Year. This is what they do. Eventually they get their bet. They take their best player because they're going to hit on somebody because they're always drafting high. So they're going to get somebody that has unique skills, and eventually they're going to wind up trading them away to reset it for the next coach. The next coach. The next coach. The next coach. So am I shocked? No. We sat across From Miles Garrett two years ago, I think, for a week 18 game of that one, Baltimore, where this was when he, you know, he said going into the offseason he was going to have a talk with Stefanski and the group there and. And, you know, and kind of like try to figure out, like, where the. Where the organization was headed. And you could just tell, like, Miles was. He had done everything he could do individually and he was just looking for team success. But Cleveland was steadfast and that they weren't going to trade him because he's one of the best players in the league. And Jim Schwartz, you know, and Miles, you know, they obviously have. Have been super productive. Well, Schwartz, he's gone. Miles is gone. Cleveland has a bunch of draft picks again, and they're selling hope again. That's this kind of like, that's the cycle they're in.

[Dan Patrick]

I'll give you Aaron Donald in his prime. Miles Garrett in his prime.

[Lewis Riddick]

Man, you know what? You know, I'm going to go with Aaron, but I'm going to go with Aaron for this reason. You remember Jerry Gray, old Texas defensive back and play for the Rams, and he was a. He's a good friend of mine, coached in Washington when I was there. He said, look, if you can give me the. If you gave me the choice between a guy who can create unique, transcendent pressure on the interior or a guy who can do it on the exterior, I'm taking the guy on the interior because that's the shorter distance that he has to go to get to the quarterback and really disrupt things. So I'm going with Aaron.

[Dan Patrick]

I think the Browns did pretty well getting Jared Verse. I know that. That they weren't going to make this move unless they got Verse. He's on his rookie deal, and he's an emerging player. Like, I like the deal for both teams, and normally, you know, that's not a hot take. We. We want to give. You know, the Rams are trying to win a Super Bowl.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

The Browns are trying to get back to ground zero and say, now let's build this with players and not get desperate. Overpay for Deshaun Watson maybe overpay for Miles Garrett just to keep him in Cleveland. Now, now maybe they build this thing, right?

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah, look, I think. Well, yeah, they have a chance. I mean, they have the assets to do it. But you know what? Like, see, this is why the NFL. The NFL is the best business in America, in the world, is because in the off season now, like the Cleveland Browns fans, yeah. You may not have been relevant regular season wise when it really counts, but now in the off season, which this is now, obviously a year round, a year round, you know, entertainment industry, they feel relevant right now. They're in the news. They're. They're feeling this. And I shouldn't say it's just from that standpoint because, look, the people in Cleveland really are trying to win. They.

[Jim Jackson]

I.

[Lewis Riddick]

They are. But again, this is the cycle that they've always been in and they have a chance. But we know this in the team building, the team building process, Dan, the most important part is the development and utilization of those assets. The rams and Sean McVeigh, unless need. They know how to do that. Yeah, they know how to develop and utilize guys that they get. And so for them, you're right. I think in the end, it's better for them. Only I feel better about what they're doing than what I do with Cleveland's. With Cleveland. Because, look, as much as I love Todd Monkin and I don't, I'm not one of these people who goes, well, it's just Cleveland. Cleveland's going to Cleveland because I was there, man, I know that place was on the, on the right path when we were there. I know we were. Look, they have a shot, but I love, I love the Rams approach this offseason. I think it's perfect. It's the perfect combination of. We have a Hall of Fame quarterback that we know is year to year. We have an offense that has great diversity in multiplicity in terms. We can wave, we can attack. We have one of the best young play callers that the game's ever seen. And defensively, now we addressed our Achilles heel, the reason why we lost to the Seahawks in the first place with these corners. And now, now we've got the one guy who every single team fears when the game's on the line. And they used to have that guy before, and that's why they won the super bowl before with number 99 on the inside. Now the best thing that the Rams can do right now is get my guy to come out of retirement and have AD play with Miles Garrett. Can you imagine.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, I suggested I would have him just play home games. I would.

[Lewis Riddick]

You know what? I'd have him do whatever he wants.

[Dan Patrick]

Pretty much.

[Lewis Riddick]

Aaron, just tell me what you want. We just want. Have you. You've seen him lately? He can step on the field right now. I promise you. He'd give you double digit sacks right now.

[Dan Patrick]

Talking to Lewis Riddick of the Mothership. Okay. If you're all in with Miles Garrett.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yep.

[Dan Patrick]

I can't draft Ty Simpson where they drafted Ty Simpson. I just. Because I could have gotten Lemon City. I could. I could get somebody who's going to help me this year and next year.

[Lewis Riddick]

But. But okay, so that's why you have

[Dan Patrick]

Matthew Stafford, is to win now.

[Lewis Riddick]

But. Okay, but see, all right, this is what Lesney's job is to do, though. His job is to. Look, I believe a general manager's job is to win now and prepare for the future and see around corners. That's what they. That's what the job is.

[Dan Patrick]

It's hard to win now and plan for the future, but.

[Lewis Riddick]

But that's exactly what he's done.

[Dan Patrick]

No, no, no, no. Their model is the transfer portal. They are. They're like a college football team that doesn't deal in young kids as much as they deal in transfers.

[Lewis Riddick]

But they have, they have plenty of homegrown talent on that football team that they've drafted. It just hasn't been first round picks, but they have plenty of guys that were draft picks of theirs.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, but you go get Stafford, you get McDuffie, now you get Miles Garrett.

[Lewis Riddick]

Right. But you know what? See Verse was a draft pick. Braden Fisk was a draft pick. Cam Kinship was a draft pick. Puka Nicole was a draft pick. Steve Avila was a draft pick. These are.

[Dan Patrick]

They know how to draft, but they're big ticket items. They're getting transfer portal, the ones that we talk about.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah, you're right. But see, here's the thing. They're still set up to win this year. And if Matthew decides after this year, like if his back, whatever it is, the number one position that we kill teams for, for not having taken care of his quarterback, they can say in their mind, they go, guess what? We've taken care of that too.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Lewis Riddick]

That's why I like it.

[Dan Patrick]

Why did the Eagles move on from A.J. brown?

[Lewis Riddick]

Chemistry, personality. No. Okay, let me, let me, let me, let me back up and say this. I'm not saying that A.J. has the wrong personality. People in Philadelphia love A.J.

[Dan Patrick]

brown.

[Lewis Riddick]

Inside that locker room, in that building. Love A.J. brown. It just wasn't mixing anymore. Just.

[Dan Patrick]

Jalen hurts. Love, A.J. brown.

[Lewis Riddick]

I would ask you a question. Does it look like he does?

[Dan Patrick]

No. Well, I know it doesn't look like AJ Brown likes Jalen Hurt. You know what?

[Lewis Riddick]

And you know what? Sometimes two things, those two things can be true. And, you know, it's just best to go. Okay, you know what? Let's move on. Addition by subtraction.

[Jim Jackson]

Wow.

[Lewis Riddick]

Now he's with a guy who knows how to push his buttons perfectly because he did it at one time when AJ Was in Tennessee. I remember seeing him there in Beast, an absolute beast. Mike will get the best out of him up there. He's per. He's exactly what they needed. And in the lead, Philadelphia was exactly what they needed. Philly has a lot of moving parts that they're going to have to kind of integrate this year. Sean Manion's got his work cut out for him. A lot of real good moving parts, but it was best for both teams.

[Dan Patrick]

It's just weird that Philadelphia has. There's turmoil, there's tension, there's a story like they're an elite team. Yeah, that's what's amazing. You would think a dysfunctional team would have all the movement changing. Offensive coordinators, defensive coordinators, coach on the hot seat, go to a Super bowl win. A Super bowl like this is wild. But you know, when you look at what they traded for A.J. brown, so 20, 22, first round, third round pick, they get four 1,000 yard seasons, they get two Super bowl appearances, one Super bowl win. Now he's 29. You get a first round and a fifth round pick. I think Howie Roseman did an unbelievable job there.

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah, that. That's. That's how you try to maximize. That's how you maximize value, both on the front end in terms of the production he gave you, and then on the back end in terms of what you received once you decided to move on and then what you're replacing him with, which is a former Heisman Trophy winner who now ascends to the number one role, a guy in Makai Lemon, who, when you watch his tape, look, subjectively you would say, look, he's not A.J. brown, but this dude's gonna be a 50, 55 catch guy. You get Eli Stowers, who's the Mackie Award winner at tight end, who really is a big. Another big wide receiver. So then you get Don Tavian Wicks, who I really liked when he was at. There's a lot still in the cupboard there for them now. It's up to Sean to put it all together. Manion. But yeah, you know what? You touched on something that is, that's, that is interesting is that what it shows you is that this is a very supremely talented football team. And in terms of the physical skills these guys have and really the football character that they play with to be able to still withstand all this stuff that we constantly talk about with this team and still get the Super Bowls and win them or at least or. Or be just a couple of plays away from winning them.

[Dan Patrick]

What if DeSean Watson starts for Cleveland?

[Lewis Riddick]

Oh, boy. What if he does? You know what I think? I think in the end, I think the only thing in Cleveland that I would care about, honestly, it's just. Can we just get a season where we have more W's than L's? I really don't care if he starts or if he doesn't. I just honestly, I want the organization to not be one that we talk about more in the off season for how good they could be, and we talk about more during the season because of how good they are. And if he starts, that means he was the best player and Todd thought he was the best best player at the position. And if he starts, it's because he probably looked pretty damn good all off season and beat out Shador, who supposedly, according to Coach Monkin, has looked pretty good himself. So I, I don't. I really. You know what? I'm. I'm kind of over all the other stuff surrounding desean. Although as much as I can't stand it and as much as. Look, I was one of those people when desean was in at Clemson and talking to Dabo about him, I was as big a fan of his as ever. There was nobody more disappointed in all the stuff he got caught up in than me. But in the end, I just want Cleveland to win. And if he's what helps them win,

[Dan Patrick]

so be just feels like Cleveland's going to have a new quarterback next year.

[Lewis Riddick]

You mean in 2027?

[Dan Patrick]

After this season?

[Lewis Riddick]

Yeah. Oh, for sure.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Lewis Riddick]

Well, I know. Let me back up. I would lean that way myself. I shouldn't say for sure, but with all the draft capital they have now and with the way the draft next year will be the most watched draft, I don't know, maybe the one during COVID was the most watched draft ever because of the circumstances. This will be the most hyped and publicized draft since I've been doing it in the past 13 years. It's going to be crazy with the number of quarterbacks coming out and assuming that they all play to their potential, there's going to be this is why teams have been trying to stockpile picks for this coming 27 draft because it's going to be insane how drama filled that those three days are going to be. I cannot wait.

[Dan Patrick]

Always great to talk to you. Thank you Louis.

[Lewis Riddick]

You bet. Thanks.

[Dan Patrick]

Lewis Riddick Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

[Lewis Riddick]

I turned off news altogether.

[Dan Patrick]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Lewis Riddick]

We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Dan Patrick]

NBC News brings you clear reporting.

[Commercial Announcer]

Let's meet at the Facts.

[Lewis Riddick]

Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

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[Lewis Riddick]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Lewis Riddick]

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[Dan Patrick]

Jackson Fox NBA COLLEGE basketball analyst played 14 years in the NBA. We finally found an NBA Finals with two teams that you did not play for in your career, Jim.

[Jim Jackson]

You know, here's the thing about it, though, Dan. All those teams continue to allow me to cash those checks, and I was

[Dan Patrick]

all right,

[Jim Jackson]

end of the day, end

[Dan Patrick]

of the day, what do you do with Chad Holmgren? I don't want to overreact. Here.

[Jim Jackson]

You are.

[Dan Patrick]

Why?

[Jim Jackson]

Because I think, you know, here's the thing. It's. Is it a check problem or is it a check problem when they play against Wimy? Now, I know last year in the Finals, he struggled a little bit. He had. He was injured, he had to come back, and he struggled a little bit. But if you look at Chad throughout the course of the year, and Shea said this is that, you know, without Chet, they don't want a championship. Without Chad, they're not in a situation to compete. So what happens is, in this particular series against Wimby, he doesn't look like Chad Holmgren. So now it's, well, what do we do with him? So I don't want to. I wouldn't be the one that panics right away, because if you go back to history, think about this. You had questions about Scottie Pippen when he played against the Knicks, his toughness, could he be that second guy? Now, if the Bulls gave up on Scotty that early, do we have the dynasty that the Bulls have? Kobe Bryant his rookie year when he infamously shot those airballs against Utah? If the Lakers panic quickly and Jerry west said, did I make the wrong decision? Is it the Kobe Bryant that we saw? Is it the Laker dynasty? Too many times we want to, based on a series, give up on a person when they're still young and still learning. Yes, he has to grow, especially against Wimby. But I don't think you pulled that trigger right away based on just because it was San Antonio.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, I wouldn't. That's what I'm saying. I heard analysts yesterday, Jim, saying they think he's played his last game with okc. And I'm thinking, what. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on here. He's a. He's a good player. He's not a great player yet, but he's going to be compared to Wemby probably the rest of his career.

[Jim Jackson]

Correct.

[Dan Patrick]

That won't go well. But I can't have somebody who doesn't take a shot in the second half of the most important game of the season. So, mentally, is what I'm, I'm. I got to figure out, does he want to be great? Does he, does he want. Does he want the heat against San Antonio?

[Jim Jackson]

Yeah, because here's the thing, because in other. And I get what you're saying too, because with Kobe, at least Kobe wasn't afraid to take the shots. I mean, you knew that. Okay? Airballs are not in the moment. It may not have went through the nets, but his mentality was, I feel I can make it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jim Jackson]

The thing about Chet against San Antonio is the lack of aggression. Okay? If you miss shots, you miss shots, it's going to happen. But his body language, lack of aggressiveness, lack of attacking, lack of doing anything else, it's different, okay? Make. Miss some shots, rebound, block shots, assist, playmake all these other things that he could have helped his team to maybe win a game. His stat line didn't indicate that. And I think that's where the issue is with a lot of people, too. Is that okay? Yeah, you didn't shoot well, but, man, you didn't do anything else either. So I hope that internally they've had enough information, downloaded enough information on chat to understand what his value is and they don't panic. Now, is it a situation where you can get Giannis? Well, if you can get Giannis, and this is a short term fix in the next three to four years that you got a chance to compete against, you know, San Antonio, who you're going to have to go through now, what does that look like? Because you have young players and you have draft assets that can make it make sense. Okay, and. And that's something internally that they have to look at.

[Dan Patrick]

Feels like both of these teams in the Finals are underdogs.

[Jim Jackson]

From what perspective?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, historically, with the Knicks and San Antonio with just youth.

[Jim Jackson]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

But they do feel under. I know San Antonio is a slight favorite, but you don't get that sense that they're kind of underdoggy.

[Jim Jackson]

I think it's question marks. You know what I mean? Because the status quo is like, okay, well, a young team shouldn't be able to make it this far. A young team, you have to go through the process, which history says that's what teams do. Boston had to do it, and they lost in the Eastern Conference finals a couple of times. The Lakers had to do it, the Bulls had to do it. Detroit had whatever it is. But in today's world, with the way the game is and the youth in the game, this team was put together and they were able to jail together a young coach with Ms. Johnson, they all grew and they figured things out collectively and they beat the top dog. So there still are going to be some questions. With New York, it's, yeah, New York is good, but. New York is good. But King Cat, you continue to play and be facilitator. Can Jalen with the ball in his hands be able to make play? Can Josh Hart as all these things? But the beauty of it is both teams got here in their own unique way. New York played their best basketball at the end of year, Dan. I mean, unbelievable. I mean unbelievable role players understood who they were. And then with San Antonio, everybody just bought in defensively, offensively, no egos. That's the beauty about this series because there are still some little unknowns like okc, you know who they are. Golden State, you knew who they were. These two teams, I think are still evolving. Even though New York is still an older, more mature team. You know, they still got some questions to answer.

[Dan Patrick]

When did we go from ball hog to ball dominant? Like, remember this was a bad thing. Isaiah was with us a couple of weeks ago and he said, yeah, we, we were a ball hog. If, you know, wasn't ball dominant. But I don't know, like was Iverson a ball hog? But was ball dominant and, and great at it? Like, I don't know when, when we went from that. Yeah, man, pass the ball too. Hey, he needs it so he can get his shots.

[Jim Jackson]

Well, correspondent with analytics, because analytics is going to tell you somebody's usage rate and now once we start breaking that number down, a high usage right now, again, that takes in a lot of factors. But a James Harden, a Russell Westbrook, a Luka Doncic, Jalen Brunson, because they have the ball in their hands a lot more and those analytics are going to look different and they're going to use those numbers to make a point about a person or to make another point about a person that they two ball dominant. And that's a great question too, because throughout the game in history, there have been guys that dominated the ball a little bit more. But it wasn't looked, I don't know if it was looked at it the same way it is in today's game because they're a little bit more isolation, you know, in some situation, and a player like a Jalen Brunson who does dominate the ball but still make play, still make shots big time. So it's, it's a confluence. Now here's the thing. Jalen Brunson dominates. But yet if you're Mike Brown, if you're thibodeau man. I gotta have the ball in my best player's hand. And the way their team is built, who else, now that cat is doing his thing but before is going to facilitate, who else at the end of the shot clock is really going to go get their shot? So it's a catch 22 with depending on how your team is made up.

[Dan Patrick]

We're talking to Jim Jackson, Fox Sports. How do you explain what Brunson does in a tiny space? That ability to his handle is not outside his body. It's kind of tight spaces. But to find those spaces, not be afraid of those spaces and, and kind of get you leaning one way or another. I can you teach that?

[Jim Jackson]

Yeah, you, you can because this is, this is the beauty about the game of basketball. Especially somebody like Jalen Brunson who doesn't rely on athleticism to be able to make him the kind of player that he is. So give a lot of credit to his father, Rick Brunson, when he was younger to understand, to use your ability in between your ears to understand space angles, how to create shots. Okay, so you take the number one player in high school, point guard. Watch. He could have went anywhere, Dan, but he chose to go to Villanova. Ryan Archie Diaconnell was the starting point guard at that time. Jalen Brunson could have started for, you know, 800 other schools, but he chose to go there.

[Dan Patrick]

Why?

[Jim Jackson]

Because the teaching, the fundamentals, understanding how to play the game the right way was very important. It was valuable. So now you get to Villanova, you learn how to play off of two feet in between small, tiny spaces. So take his already high iq. Combine that with what Jay Wright was doing in that system there at Villanova, and now you have the national player of the year, a two time champion. Even though he went in the second round in the draft, people still question whether he could do it. And now you have more space to play within the NBA. But yet, and still the skill set has continued to develop. That's why Jalen Brunson is so potent as a player, because he doesn't rely on athleticism, but he can get to a spot, use his body, create space and excellent footwork.

[Dan Patrick]

But the NBA is littered with guys who don't look like they can be all time greats. Joker did not look like it. Giannis when he got here. Dirk was labeled soft. Steve Nash too small.

[Jim Jackson]

Sga.

[Dan Patrick]

Sga. I mean you. That's the beauty of basketball. Yes, it's. He doesn't look like he could score 40 like, even Luca, when you're around, when you watch Luca, you're like, okay. And then all of a sudden, you look up and he's got 35. I just. I. I find that fascinating that these guys have that some, you know, something different in their DNA that allows them to be better because they figured it out. It's not. You know, and those guys I mentioned, I'm. They're not relying on athleticism at all. Like, crazy athletic. I mean, they have it, but you're just somehow, some way, you figured out Rubik's Cube here. And I think that's what's fascinating with Brunson.

[Jim Jackson]

But the history of the game, too. Think about it. Larry Bird, same way. Or Jack Sickman, same way. Because the guys and the players he had to play against were a little bit more athletically gifted. But what they were able to do with Kevin McHale, okay, it was footwork. It was understanding angles. It was, okay, where do I receive the ball? Can I get to my space? These things were drilled over and over and over again, okay? To utilize who they have around them, but also to understand, this is how I'm gonna make my money.

[Dan Patrick]

Is these.

[Jim Jackson]

Is this the skill set that I have developed based on who I am as a player, not anybody else. And that's the beauty about the game, because the game can be played in a lot of different ways. And I think a lot of times we in today's world harp on athleticism. Athleticism. Athleticism. Well, at some point, athleticism is great because it's athletes across the board in every sport, but the ones that understand how to make that connection up here. That's why I think Michael Jordan was such a. This is a phenomenal player because he took the athleticism with the skill set, the mindset of how to play the game. That's what made him unstoppable. Okay, and the same thing you talked about with, I think, Jalen and SGA and Luca Jokic. Unbelievable. I mean, unbelievable players because they play the game between the ears.

[Dan Patrick]

How does the finals play out?

[Jim Jackson]

I like the. I like the Knicks in six. And the reason why is because. Not because the six. I mean, the Knicks beat him two. One during the season. It's a matchup thing. Now, listen, the. I mean, OKC has already dealt with Garden. Anthony Edwards already dealt with sga. They're going to plug him, send multiple guys at him, force other players like Alex Caruso and Mitchell, if he would have played or to make shots. So that means Josh Hart, who Wimby probably is going to start on is going to have to make shots. But what I love about this New York team, they're bigger across the board, you know, with Mitchell Robinson inside and Cat outside. But across their wings with OG and also Mikhail Bridges and Josh, they have size. San Antonio is not a big team outside of Wimby. They're not big in Luke Cornett who comes in. So those double teams, when they come and get Jalen in the middle of the court, now you have bigger guys receiving the ball in the middle with OG and Mikhail that can make play. I just think that gives them a strategical advantage that the other teams didn't have. And that's why I like the Knicks defensively, offensively, because of that size that they have. That can, I think, negate some of that aggressive defensive nature that San Antonio will employ.

[Dan Patrick]

Great to talk to you. Thanks for joining us.

[Jim Jackson]

You got it, brother.

[Dan Patrick]

All right.

[Jim Jackson]

Enjoy it, man.

[Dan Patrick]

That's Jim Jackson.

[Jim Jackson]

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