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Hour 1 – Knicks Fire Tom Thibodeau, Barry Melrose Hall of Fame Case - The Dan Patrick Show | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Hour 1 – Knicks Fire Tom Thibodeau, Barry Melrose Hall of Fame Case

The Dan Patrick Show

Wed Jun 04 2025

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show - Episode Summary

Title: Hour 1 – Knicks Fire Tom Thibodeau, Barry Melrose Hall of Fame Case
Release Date: June 4, 2025
Host: Dan Patrick
Guests: Lester Holt, Various Listeners

1. Breaking News: Knicks Fire Tom Thibodeau

The episode kicks off with Dan Patrick addressing the unexpected firing of Tom Thibodeau, the head coach of the New York Knicks. Despite Thibodeau leading the team to the Eastern Conference Finals, the Knicks' management decided to part ways, leaving fans and analysts puzzled.

Dan Patrick (00:32): "We'll dive into the firing of Tom Thibodeau and the replacements for him."

2. Evaluating the Knicks' Season Success

Dan and Lester Holt engage in a deep discussion about whether the Knicks had a successful season despite the coaching change. They explore the paradox of having a strong season yet deciding to fire the coach.

Dan Patrick (04:50): "Can you have a successful season and fire your coach? That would be my question because I would think a lot of Knicks fans would say we had a successful season."

3. Potential Replacements for Thibodeau

The conversation shifts to potential candidates to replace Thibodeau. Michael Malone emerges as the frontrunner, with Dan highlighting Malone's previous success and familiarity with the Knicks' front office dynamics.

Dan Patrick (06:15): "Michael Malone is your big favorite. I think Malone is the number one candidate by far."

4. Comparing Coaching Changes in Sports History

Dan draws parallels between the Knicks' situation and other significant coaching changes in sports, such as Phil Jackson's hiring by the Chicago Bulls and Jon Gruden's move to the Buccaneers. These comparisons underscore the high-stakes nature of coaching decisions.

Dan Patrick (08:11): "After Doug Collins got fired in Chicago, they brought in Phil Jackson, and then Phil Jackson came in, and the rest is history."

5. Defensive Weaknesses: Carl Anthony Towns

A critical point of discussion is the Knicks' defensive shortcomings, particularly focusing on center Carl Anthony Towns' performance. Dan questions whether Thibodeau can compensate for these defensive lapses.

Dan Patrick (10:57): "Carl Anthony Towns didn't play defense. People are surprised you got a head coach who's a defensive minded guy."

6. Listener Poll: Gutsy or Nutsy?

The show features a listener poll asking whether the Knicks' decision to fire Thibodeau was gutsy or nutsy. Responses were split, reflecting the controversial nature of the decision.

Poll Question (22:17): "The Knicks are gutsy or nuts? Gutsy or nuts or nutsy?"

Listener Responses:

Todd: "Gutsy."

Seaton: "Nutsy."

Others varied between "gutsy" and "nuts."

7. Hall of Fame Discussion: Barry Melrose and Don Cherry

Dan shifts the conversation to the Hockey Hall of Fame, advocating for Barry Melrose's induction and questioning the criteria that delay such honors until posthumously.

Dan Patrick (20:04): "I've been a big proponent of Barry Melrose being put into the Hockey hall of Fame."

Listener John Bu (20:04): "Why do hall of Fame's wait until people die? Why do they adhere to arbitrary categorical rules?"

8. Additional Listener Insights

Various listeners contribute their perspectives on the Knicks' coaching change and broader sports topics. Notably, Chris from Syracuse shares his views on Thibodeau's coaching style and the Knicks' defensive strategies.

Chris (25:13): "Thibbs should get some credit for helping to develop these players."

9. Future Prospects for the Knicks

The discussion concludes with speculations on the Knicks' future, emphasizing the need for depth in the roster and effective coaching to ensure championship contention.

Dan Patrick (34:15): "If it's Michael Malone, if it's Phil Jackson, you're not getting. I don't think you're ready."

Lester Holt (35:02): "If he got gentleman sweep, they lose in five. Does he get like. I don't, I don't know."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Dan Patrick (04:50): "Can you have a successful season and fire your coach?"
Dan Patrick (06:15): "Michael Malone is your big favorite."
Dan Patrick (10:57): "Carl Anthony Towns didn't play defense."
Dan Patrick (20:04): "I've been a big proponent of Barry Melrose being put into the Hockey hall of Fame."
Lester Holt (22:41): "Nuts."
Dan Patrick (34:15): "If it's Michael Malone, if it's Phil Jackson, you're not getting."

Key Insights & Conclusions

Coaching Decisions: The Knicks' firing of Tom Thibodeau, despite a strong season, reflects the volatile nature of sports management. The choice underscores a possible shift in the franchise's long-term strategy.
Defensive Challenges: The Knicks' defensive weaknesses, particularly in the center position, remain a significant concern. Future coaching hires will need to address these gaps to enhance the team's competitiveness.
Historical Parallels: Comparing the Knicks' situation to other sports teams highlights the high stakes and potential long-term impacts of coaching changes.
Hall of Fame Criteria: There's a growing conversation around the criteria for Hall of Fame inductions, advocating for more immediate recognition of significant contributors like Barry Melrose and Don Cherry.
Future Outlook: The Knicks' future hinges on finding the right coaching fit and building depth in their roster. The team's management is under pressure to make strategic moves that can propel them toward championship contention.

This summary encapsulates the primary discussions and insights from Hour 1 – Knicks Fire Tom Thibodeau, Barry Melrose Hall of Fame Case of The Dan Patrick Show. Listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the Knicks' recent coaching decision, its implications, and broader reflections on sports management and Hall of Fame deliberations.

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Transcript

Dan Patrick (0:00)

This is an iHeart podcast.

Lester Holt (0:04)

NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed down or NBC News. I'm Tom Brokaw.

Dan Patrick (0:09)

We hope to see you back here.

Lester Holt (0:10)

I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamas is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with.

Dan Patrick (0:20)

Breaking news right now.

Lester Holt (0:21)

We look for a constant and from one era to the next, trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas.

Dan Patrick (0:32)

Evenings on NBC. You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio. Well, well, well, that was a surprise yesterday afternoon. We'll dive into the firing of Tom Thibodeau and the replacements for him. 8773-DP-SHoM email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle @dpshow Robert or a big shot Bob a little bit later on. And your phone calls are always welcome. Operator Tyler sitting by. He'll take your phone calls. Play of the day poll questions Stat of the day. Good morning, those watching on Peacock, our streaming partner, or listening on our great radio affiliates around the country, including Fox Sports Radio, iheartradio as well. NBA Finals start tomorrow. Pacers at the Thunder. Pacers getting nine. The Stanley cup final starts tonight with the Oilers a slight favorite in this series. A against the Panthers in a rematch. And it's time to celebrate. It's time to break up the Colorado Rockies. They won their first series of the year. How about a round of applause for your Colorado Rockies against the Marlins. Our Colorado Rockies. Plenty of seeds still available with that game against Miami, the Marlins. Wow. It was like a rumor that there was a baseball game. And that's where you could probably be talking to somebody and a player could say, hey, shh, because it said paid attendance around 5,000. There's no way that looked like there was about maybe six or seven hundred people there. That's, that's where your conversation would echo in the ballpark. All right. 877-3-DP show email address dp@danpatrick.com Twitter handle @DP show the New York Knicks. And we wondered if you were going to label what kind of season they had. Did they have a successful season? Can you have a successful season and fire your coach? That would be my question because I would think a lot of Knicks fans would say we had a successful season. I mean, you had a chance to go to the NBA finals, but you fired your coach. Successful. Now we might look at this and say, Tom Thibodeau took them as far as he could take them, and they need to bring in somebody, somebody who has experience, somebody who's won a title before, perhaps. Now, if you go back to when Michael Malone was fired by Denver, and I said on the show, after he was fired, Tom Thibodeau has to get to the Eastern Conference finals. It feels like, if not, then Michael Malone will be the next head coach of the Knicks. He's. He's got a title in Denver. He got fired at the end of the season. His father was a Knicks assistant coach. He knows, he knows the, the. The landscape there. And, you know, Thibodeau was doing a great job. Now, did I think he was going to get fired? I didn't. And he did get to the Eastern Conference finals, but all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you're going to fire him. Now, we might look at this in three years and say, you know what? That's a tough decision, but they made the right decision. There's still. There's a surprise, or maybe it's there. There's the element of shock, but I'm not surprised because nothing surprises me anymore. It feels like in sports, it's like, okay, and this was one of those where I went, wow, okay. And I don't know if Michael Malone is going to be the number one candidate. I'm looking at the odds right now, and it's got. Michael Malone is your favorite, a big favorite. And then it's Johnny Bryant, I believe he's an assistant coach with Cleveland. Jay Wright, who retired from college basketball, and he's been in broadcasting. Mike Budenholzer, who's always available. Rick Brunson, okay, have father, son combination there. Monty Williams, Taylor Jenkins, John Calipari, Danny Hurley, Jeff Van Gundy. Those are just some of the names. Now, the odds are long with a lot of those, it feels like Michael Malone is your. He's. He's the number one candidate by far. I don't think you fire somebody without knowing who you're going to hire. I've always felt that do I think the Knicks would make this kind of decision? And I thought maybe that Tom Thibodeau, you know, he. Everybody was pointing their fingers at Carl Anthony Towns. He was getting the blame. They weren't going to, you know, I guess focus in on Tom Thibodeau. Seemed like, okay, survive this. You're not firing Carl Anthony Towns. And then all of a sudden, it's like, boom. Now people get caught up in who pulled the trigger. Does that matter? Leon Rose is basically, he's running the team. He's your president of basketball operations or whatever. I'd call it a gm, but he's a former agent and Tom Thibodeau was his, you know, one of his clients. They just signed Tom Thibodeau to a, an extension. I got $30 million extension last July. Okay, are you going to make these moves? You trade away Randall and D. Vincenzo, you get Carl Anthony Towns, okay, You got Mikhail Bridges, like, okay, here's our lineup. And then you get to the Eastern Conference finals, and you'd say, all right, you know, that's pretty good. Now, Carl Anthony Towns didn't play defense. People are surprised you got a head coach who's a defensive minded guy. Jalen Brun's not a good defensive player. It feels like they might have overachieved a little bit here, but I don't know if ownership said, you know, the Celtics weren't there, Cavaliers weren't there, we should have beaten the Pacers. We had home court advantage. We should be playing in the NBA Finals. You know, we, we, we don't have depth here. We use our starters too much. And then all of a sudden, Thibodeau started using his bench a little bit more in the series. And I don't know what the tipping point was. I don't know if that's one of those irrational moments where the owner goes, fire him. Wait, we just gave him a $30 million extension. I don't care. Fire. And then your agent, who's now your boss, is the one who's firing you. But then he helped sign you to a $30 million, and you're on the hook to pay Tom Thibodeau all of that money. I mean, you feel like you've graduated from the old way of doing business with the New York Knicks. Like, okay, now they're respectable. You know, they're, it's a good, good team. You got a respected coach, front office owner seems to be out of the way. You know, former Knicks are now allowed back in the building. You know, okay, we're, we're moving forward here. And then all of a sudden it's like, put on the brakes. I'll take you back to. After the loss, Game 6. Jalen Brunson was asked this question. Jalen, when you, you talk about the confidence, obviously I feel like nobody takes more criticism than Tom, and this team obviously has turned around during his tenure. Do you kind of feel that going forward he's the same guy to lift you guys the Rest of the way, that next level.

Dan Patrick (12:34)

Okay. I like Tom Thibodeau. I don't think he is an elite coach. I think he's a very good coach. But, I mean, I've seen what's happened in Boston. I don't think they have an elite coach, but they end up winning or they've won a championship. Like, it's weird. Michael Malone is a very good coach. He got fired by Denver. There are times when you go, george, Carl, I think, got fired after being. He was coach of the Year. He got fired after winning coach of the year. Yes. Eden. Yeah. I feel like the one thing you can't criticize the Knicks for is not trying. Over the last 25 years, they've tried. They've thrown everything against the wall. To see if it would stick. Everything this is to me that's actually the problem is that they don't stick to anything. Well, whoever comes in, how high is that bar? How long do you get in that job if you don't win a championship or at least get to the NBA championship? Right. Because Thibodeau got you to the Eastern Conference finals. That next coach who comes in, we expect this. And it can't be. There's this grace period where you go, you know, we got a two year plan. No, I would expect you to get to the NBA final, at least to the Eastern Conference finals. And we don't know, if I look at the east right now, Indiana is still going to be Indiana next year. I don't know what you're going to have with the Bucks with Giannis or Philadelphia with the 76ers. Jason Tatum in Boston. I still think Orlando is a quality team. Cleveland is going to have their core four unless they make a move. I mean, the east is open ish to. Okay, we got two teams we got to worry about. We got to worry about the Pacers and we have to worry about the Cavs because I, I think the Celtics are going to look a little different and you're probably not going to have Jason Tatum for most of the year. This is the window of opportunity if you're going to try to get back and, and at least compete for a title. Okay, but you, you got two years, it feels like before the vultures start to circle here. Yes.

Lester Holt (25:13)

Hey, thanks as always, Dan. Hey, I loved Don Cherry, had that show with his dog Blue. That was always pretty good too. And on the poll I'm gonna go gutsy. And a couple comments on my favorite teams. First, Tibbs getting fired, I think it was. I feel bad and I wish he hadn't. I think it was a complete knee jerk reaction probably by Rose. And I think there's one basic reason he played campaign right. Landru Shama during the season those guys came in for 30, 45 seconds at the end of quarters to give people blows. I mean they're not defensive stoppers and he played them significant minutes. He left Brunson on the bench a lot of times where he didn't have any foul trouble. And Dan, during the season they never were defensive stoppers. They played and I'm certainly not Talking about Robinson, McBride, we need a Robinson out there. But during the season they never were out there for any significant amount of time. Detroit series had a couple pretty good offensive players. They didn't play them. Boston Heads. We beat Boston healthy for a lot of that series. He didn't play him. Brunson and Cat were fine out there. I think to what Marvin said, I think he could taste it. Rose could taste the team I put together, we're ready. And Boston's out of the way, Cleveland's out of the way. And I bet you during their series he's talking to Tibbs, what are you doing? And Tibbs just kept going. And it probably didn't help him that Detroit, which is a tough call, he had Hart and Brunson, he was trying to get in at the scorers table and they sat there forever and he didn't want to use the last timeouts, didn't have a foul to give, so. And to your point, Dan, Michael Malone being out there made the made the choice a little easier too. And him, Jay Wright or Monte Williams would be great. And I just wanted to mention the great Jim Marshall passed away and he was, boy, he was the quintessential Viking and arguably the greatest Viking of all time. And I, I know Bud Grant would co sign on that.

Dan Patrick (29:57)

Thank you, Buddha. I don't think this owner in New York does things to get clicks to have his team talked about. I think Jerry Jones does that in Dallas. Absolutely. I mean he, he's going to drag out the Micah Parsons contract situation. He dragged out the Dak Prescott contract situation. I think this owner in New York has just been inept at times. In who he was hiring or who he's listening to. And they haven't had those marquee players. I mean, Dallas still has some guys you tune in to watch. I mean, and I think you got to be fair to Tibs that Jalen Brunson wasn't a star. They tried to get Donovan Mitchell, they missed on him, and they brought in Jalen Brunson. The reaction wasn't overwhelming that, oh my gosh, we have a left handed version of Clyde Frazier. I mean, Josh Hart was a good player in college, became a real Good contributor. Dante DiVincenzo, when he played, became a contributor. I think that Tibbs deserves some credit for helping to develop these players. And they were building a roster to compete against Boston. OG Anunoby, Mikhail Bridges. I wouldn't have brought in Carl Anthony Towns. I, I would rather have had Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzo, because then I have some depth. I have somebody coming off the bench. You know, Julius Randall, you know, will score, King can move the ball a little bit, good passer. You know, losing Hartenstein to OKC I thought was a big deal because he's one of those energy guys, rim protectors. I don't know. But Tibbs should get some credit here and maybe he won't, but, you know, maybe they just felt this was the golden opportunity. We had home court advantage against the Pacers. We blew a big lead, fourth quarter, and Halliburton hits that shot and that changed the whole complexion of this series. Would they have fired him if he got to the NBA Finals and they lost? If, if they got gentleman sweep, they lose in five. Does he get like. I don't, I don't know. Was this a, a foregone conclusion decision that was made maybe weeks ago? I, I just don't know if it was so spur of the moment because Michael Malone has been available. He's in the on deck circle for somebody this off season and all it takes is one phone call. That's it. Hey, don't do anything. Let's see what happens. You and me, let's just keep it between us. And if it doesn't go the way the owner wants this to go, I want, I want you to know I'm going to call you. I, I mean, is that my interpretation? Yes. Yes. Martin.

Dan Patrick (39:30)

Well, clearly that's what the Knicks are saying, that if we had a better coach, we would have a better result. Or you wouldn't have made this decision. But do I think Steve Kerr would have guided them to the NBA Finals or championship or Eric Spolra? I mean, we'll never know you play the hypothetical game, but I would say no, I don't think they're better no matter who's coaching them. Than okc. And I didn't think they were better than the Pacers, though. And Seaton brings up a great point. If you're looking at this, saying, we missed our opportunity. Yes, that's breaking news. Seaton had a great point about like a, like my dog. When you say peanut butter, like, huh? But if you're looking at this and you're kind of handicapping your season, saying, well, but Boston lost. Tatum and the Cavs were banged up. This was our opportunity. Knowing full well you're not better than Boston, you're not better than Cleveland, you weren't better than Indiana, and I think that's fool's gold to go. You know what? If we get a new coach in here, if we have the same roster, you're not getting to the NBA Finals, in my opinion. If it's Michael Malone, if it's Phil Jackson, you're not getting. I don't think you're. You're ready. I think you need depth. What did I say about Denver when they won the title? They won the title because they had depth. Yes, you do have stars. Yes. You have the best player in the game. You have to have players who contribute. It's a half court game. When you get to the postseason, you must play offense and defense. You know, you watch a regular season game, it's up and down, willy nilly. So what, you know, we got Cleveland today and then we got, you know, Sacramento and you're just playing and then all of a sudden every possession matters, every game matters. And, and it's, it just, it like it heightens the awareness of defense in the NBA. It does. And OKC has the best defense in the NBA Now. Indiana has great offense. I love that you have contrasting styles here. That'll be fun to watch. Let me see, what else do we have? Brian in South Carolina. Hi, Brian.