Hour 1 – Wemby Skates on Flagrant Foul, PJ Carlesimo

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show – Hour 1 – Wemby Skates on Flagrant Foul, PJ Carlesimo

Date: June 10, 2026
Host: Dan Patrick | Guest: PJ Carlesimo
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts and Dan Patrick Podcast Network

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the latest NBA Finals drama, focusing particularly on the controversy around Victor Wembanyama (“Wemby”) not receiving a flagrant foul for a hard shove on Jalen Brunson. Dan and the crew break down the NBA’s ruling, implications for the rest of the series, and what it means for Wembanyama’s playoff future. Legendary coach and broadcaster PJ Carlesimo joins to unpack the officiating climate and offer inside perspective on playoff basketball’s physicality, strategy, and stories from his championship days. There’s also discussion about the Stanley Cup Final’s high-scoring games, player prop bets, and classic anecdotes involving NBA legends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stanley Cup Final: Goalie Woes and High Scoring

• [03:50] Dan comments on the Hurricanes evening the series against the Golden Knights, noting the high goal count and the historical context of goaltender performance in the Finals.
  • “It might be, which goalie was worse than the other one?” – Dan [05:30]
• Dylan adds insight about Brandon Bussi’s emergency playoff start and the unorthodox situation with emergency goalies.
  • Mentions previous emergency Blackhawks goalie, reflecting NHL’s rare scenarios. [06:20]

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2. NBA Finals: Wembanyama’s Non-Flagrant & Its Fallout

• [07:10] Dan breaks down the NBA’s postgame admission:
  • The league retroactively acknowledged a foul should have been called on Wemby for his shove on Brunson, but stopped short of a flagrant.
  • Highlights playoff rules: Wemby remains 2 flagrant points away from automatic suspension; another major foul could sideline him for a crucial game.
  • “That looks flagrant to me. It’s not a basketball move.” – Dan Patrick [08:35]
• The show speculates on why the NBA hesitated—a day-after decision looks like damage control.
• Paulie reads out the NBA rulebook definition of a flagrant, emphasizing the incident fits the description. [09:58]
• Discussion about whether Wemby being 'the villain' has begun and how he’s responded to that label, notably with his “I’ll never be Trae Young in the Garden” retort.
  • “Wemby, you don’t have to make friends, you’re making enemies.” – Dan [10:40]

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3. Game Strategy and Key Players to Watch

• [11:10] Over/under prop bets for the night dissected:
  • Emphasis on Carl Anthony Towns’ offensive and defensive role; Brunson’s shooting efficiency and volume.
  • Dan notes: “If you said to the Spurs, Brunson’s gonna shoot 37% ... they’d sign up for that.” [11:42]
• Dives into a quirky stat:
  • KAT has zero points in the fourth quarter across three games, raising questions about both his role and the Knicks’ clutch strategy. [15:04]
• Marvin sparks a fun segment about unexpected contributors, centering on Landry Shamet’s variable scoring.
• Discussion about the physicality and defensive matchups:
  • “They do have a strategy on Jalen Brunson that is working. You got bigger guys, longer guys, more physical guys.” – Dan [12:35]

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4. Physicality, Officiating, and “Baiting” Stars

• PJ Carlesimo Interview Starts [24:14]
  • PJ shares first-hand perspective on how NBA playoff series are “impossible” to officiate due to escalating physicality.
  • “Both teams are being so physical...what’s unusual about this series is you’ve got a slew of wing defenders...it’s just so physical.” – PJ Carlesimo [27:00]
  • “I wasn’t terribly bothered by [no flagrant], nor would I have been had they given him a flagrant one...it would have put all the officials and Wemby on high alert.” [24:58]
  • Discusses differences between old-school physicality (80s/90s) and today’s constant, full-court defensive pressure.
  • PJ: “It’s like hockey...they're cross-checking or doing whatever you do right now, and it’s allowed.” [29:15]
  • Dan wonders if coaches ever instruct their teams to “bait” a star into a flagrant; PJ says the players instinctively know how to do that. [26:40]

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5. Knicks’ Missed Opportunity and Home Court Pressure

• [29:37] Why did the Knicks flop in Game 3 at home?
  • Both Dan and PJ note the impact of the big-game vibe, media, and distractions.
  • “You get caught up in the coronation...and somehow it appeared to impact the Knicks more than the Spurs.” – PJ [30:31]
  • The Spurs’ youth held up, while the Knicks seemed overwhelmed.

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6. Legendary Anecdotes: Dream Team & NBA Work Ethic

• [33:32] Comparison of preparing for the old Pistons vs. young LeBron:
  • Three-point shooting changes defensive strategies; “It’s almost like you’re playing on a bigger court.” – PJ [34:46]
• PJ shares Dream Team stories:
  • Babysitting Charles Barkley, golf outings with Jordan and Payne Stewart, and the relentless competitiveness of MJ and Kobe.
  • “The best players in the league are outworking you in the summer. It’s not an accident that these guys do what they do.” – PJ [37:42]
  • “He has to win in everything he does. It drives him.” (on MJ) [36:20]
• Insights on Tim Duncan’s leadership, subtle humor, and ongoing support for Greg Popovich.
  • “Not a good sense of humor. Borderline great sense of humor. Tremendous teammate.” – PJ [38:48]
  • Stories about Pop’s wine dinners and Popovich’s media aversion.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On NBA’s Handling of Wemby:

  • “If they do it right after the game, then I’m okay with that. It’s a day later...this is egregious.” – Dan Patrick [08:35]
  • “He’s two flagrant points away from being suspended—automatic suspension.” – Dan [08:54]

• On Work Ethic of Greats:

  • “The best players in the league are outworking you in the summer.” – PJ Carlesimo [37:42]
  • “He has to win in everything he does. It drives him.” – PJ Carlesimo on Michael Jordan [36:20]

• On Fourth Quarter Scoring:

  • “Don’t you accidentally score a point?” – Dan, on KAT’s fourth-quarter drought [15:06]

• On Modern Physicality:

  • “To me it’s like hockey...they’re cross-checking or doing whatever you do right now, and it’s allowed.” – PJ [29:15]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:50: Stanley Cup Final recap – goalie discussion
• 07:10: Wemby’s controversial non-flagrant analyzed
• 09:58: Paulie reads NBA flagrant rule
• 11:10: Series strategy: key scorers, prop bets
• 15:04: Stat: KAT zero points in 4th quarters
• 24:14: PJ Carlesimo joins – officiating, playoff physicality, “baiting” stars
• 29:37: Pressure at MSG for Game 3; Knicks’ struggles
• 33:32: Adapting defense in the three-point era; Dream Team stories
• 37:42: Kobe and MJ’s work ethic
• 38:48: Duncan/Popovich behind-the-scenes stories

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Segment Highlights

Fun and Banter

• The crew jokes about over/under math [16:39], the “Harvard of the West,” and guessing surprising Knicks contributors.
• Movie talk: Robin Williams’s “Dead Poets Society” and comedians in serious roles [47:10].

Listeners’ Calls

• [48:11] Old-school NBA justice: calls for an enforcer to answer Wemby.
• [49:29] Loose bench decorum in the NBA—do today’s stars still fear the consequences?

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Tone & Style

Dan and his crew alternated between sharp basketball analysis, statistical curiosities, long-view anecdotes, and playful, irreverent banter. PJ Carlesimo’s contributions gave the conversation gravitas and authentic behind-the-scenes NBA color, countered by Dan’s media veteran wit.

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In Summary

This episode is a can’t-miss for basketball fans eager to understand the nuance of NBA officiating, the increasing physicality of the Finals, and the psychology of playoff basketball. Wemby’s incident is examined from every angle, while PJ Carlesimo offers illuminating context on how today’s intensity compares to the “good old days.” The show skillfully mixes tactical strategy, iconic NBA storytelling, and humor, ensuring both sports diehards and casual listeners stay hooked.

Transcript

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Dylan]

Yeah, it's fun. So they. The Hurricane started Brandon Bussey in. In goals, first playoff start. And like, by all objections, he had a good. The best goaltending game of the series. He still gave up three goals and had an.850 save percentage. And then Frederick Freddie Anderson was. Who's normally their starter, was actually their emergency goalie last night. So had Bussey went out and then their second goalie, he would have actually had to come in in relief. Like, remember that guy we had on a number of a couple years back who was the emergency goalie for the Blackhawks who was just like a plumber? And they. It's like all three went down and they had to, like, call and be like, can you get to the rink? Now? That's what their usual starter was last night.

[Dan Patrick]

Who are you, Steve Levy? Now you're breaking down the Stanley Cup Final. I am.

[Dylan]

And that's it. Now I'm done.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

You went to the University of Denver tapping into that hockey knowledge.

[Dylan]

Harvard of the West.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Okay. There was. There was something yesterday that was decided that Victor Wembanyama did not get a flagrant foul. The NBA went and looked. Their senior vice president of referee development and training, Monty McCutcheon, admitted a foul should have been called on Wemby with the shove to Jalen Brunson's upper body. Now, they didn't call flagrant. They should have called a flagrant because that's what it was. And if they had called a flagrant, then we would have a little bit more drama going into these last few games. He will stay two flagrant points away in the postseason because if he gets to four, that means he's subject to an automatic suspension. So he would miss a game. Wemby accumulated the two flagrants earlier in the postseason against the Minnesota Timberwolves when he had an elbow to the job. Nas Reed, he was assessed a flagrant foul two for excessive contact above the neck, and that triggered an ejection. So right now, the NBA looked at it. I don't know how you look at that and don't say that's a flagrant. Now, if they looked at it right after the game and you call it a flagrant, then I'm fine with that. I think after the fact, and it's the next day and you're looking at it, and they decided to be a. Well, yes, it should have been a foul, but hey, let's get ready for that next game. This kind of helps a little bit. Where the NBA admits they made a mistake, which they should have, that's a flagrant. And Jaylen Brunson got whistled for a flagrant for a ticky tack call in that same game. And I was surprised that I guess I shouldn't be surprised. If they do it right after the game, then I'm okay with that. It's a day later, you're looking at it. And I don't know why you had to wait for a day later. I mean, this is egregious when you watch it, you know, no matter who you're rooting for. I'm not rooting for anybody. Just watching it saying, first of all, it's a foul. Second of all, that looks flagrant to me. It's not a basketball move. And I would have gotten. I would have given him a flagrant on that. They decided not to. And. But it feels like they were trying to avoid more heat with this. But if you, you know, gave him a flagrant. Now all of a sudden, if I'm the Knicks and I'm Mike Brown, I am going to bait you. I'm going to make you, you know, do something stupid. But that will not happen. He's two flagrant points away from being suspended. Automatic suspension.

[Paulie]

Yeah, Paul, here's the NBA rulebook definition of a flagrant. One flagrant, one unnecessary contact committed by a player against an opponent. And they describe it in detail as kind of a non basketball play, not in the course of action. This fits the definition.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It's not a basketball play. I don't know what led up to this, but even then, even if you retaliate that way, it still can be a flagrant foul. I don't know if Brunson did anything to Victor or somebody else did and then he took it out on Brunson. That is a flagrant foul. Yeah.

[Marvin]

Marvin, you asked about a month ago when people are going to start hating Wemby. Well, it's starting.

[Dan Patrick]

Yep, yep, yep. I mean, he had a, a play against Caruso, he had play against Naz Reed. Now you have this play here against Brunson and he was even asked, you know, are you, you okay being the villain? He goes, well, you know, I'll never be Trey Young in the garden. And I thought it was a great line. But you know, Wemby, you don't have to make friends, you're making enemies. But all you got to do is play big again. Tonight I got the over unders courtesy of DraftKings. Jalen Brunson's 27 and a half. Wemby's 26 and a half. Carl Anthony Town 17 and a half. Then you have Stefan Castle 15 and a half, Dylan Harper 14 and a half. Dear. And Fox 13 and a half. To me the key is Carl Anthony Towns tonight offensively and defensively. You can't let Wemby gets started early. And if you're Jalen Brunson, I, I know it sounds crazy to say he hasn't played well and he's still the leading candidate for MVP in this series, but he's got to keep shooting. That's the, that's the tricky part of all of this. And I'm looking at the numbers here. And if you said to the San Antonio Spurs, Brunson is going to shoot 37% in the series, 32% from three point range. He's going to average 27 shots per game and he's going to have 82 points on 81 total shots and averaging just over four assists. Spurs are going to take that. They will love that. They would sign up for that in a second. The key is don't let anybody go off. If Carl Anthony Towns ends up at 17 and a half points, you're okay. Now if he ends up with like seven assists, maybe 12 rebounds, okay. Now I'd be concerned OG Anunoby if he gets to 16 and a half points. All right, I might be a little nervous with that, but if you said Victor gets his 26 and a half, Castles at 15, Harper 14, De', Aaron, Fox 13. Maybe you get contributions from a couple of other players, but it's probably going to be, you know, another one of those 107, 104 games. You know, this, this is. This is about defense tonight. And they, they do have a strategy on Jalen Brunson that is working. You got bigger guys, longer guys, more physical guys. And this is where, you know, there's certain spots. Brunson probably has five spots on the floor that he wants to get to. You have to know where he wants to get to before he gets there. Yeah.

[Dylan]

Dylan deer and Fox 13 and a half. Sounds like it should. It's like 45.

[Dan Patrick]

That sounds like you got to take the under.

[Dylan]

I know you got to.

[Dan Patrick]

Or is he due Once again, this is why I don't gamble. But this is a dear. And Fox 13 half points. Yes.

[Marvin]

Marvin, I'm going to say a name that I never thought I'd say regarding the NBA finals. As far as a serious piece.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. Okay. Now which team?

[Marvin]

The Knicks.

[Dan Patrick]

The Knicks. Okay. All right. So it's a guy that you didn't think that you would say, and he could be a serious contributor tonight. Correct. Okay. Dylan, do you want to guess?

[Dylan]

Jordan Clarkson.

[Dan Patrick]

Wow. Okay, Paulie, I'm sticking with that.

[Paulie]

Jordan Clarkson.

[Dan Patrick]

Judging from body language with Marvin, when Dylan said that, I'm gonna say Jordan Clarkson.

[Marvin]

Oh, good guess, but no.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, wait, let me ask Todd. Big Knicks fan.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Shammet Balloop.

[Caller]

Wow.

[PJ Carlissimo]

He's gonna go off with some threes.

[Dan Patrick]

Landry shamit now, games one and two.

[Marvin]

Landry Shammy had 13 points off the bench.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay.

[Marvin]

Game three, zero.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. He's due. He's crazy.

[Marvin]

He had a non guaranteed contract at the beginning of the season.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes.

[Paulie]

Paul, here's another stat that's getting a lot of play. I think we touched on this yesterday. Carl Anthony Towns. Quarters one, two and three. He's got 50 points. Fourth quarter, zero points this series.

[Dan Patrick]

It's.

[Paulie]

I had to check it.

[Dan Patrick]

Don't you accidentally score a point, but

[Paulie]

is that on the team to not. Are they getting him the ball?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, it feels like fourth quarter's Jalen Brunson time and maybe he's too ball dominant. I still think the offense has to go through Carl Anthony Towns. I think the success they've had. I don't want Brunson working as hard as he's working, but San Antonio is going to make him work. Pick him up, you know, three quarters court, they're going to make him work the shot clock, and you're just going to put as much pressure on him as possible and make those shots little more awkward off balance. Yes.

[Marvin]

Marvin Brunson's got to be the shooting guard. He cannot bring the ball up because Castle's all over him. And by the time they get into their set, there's eight seconds left on the shot clock.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, but that's tonight. Big game at the Garden, but we're guaranteed going back to San Antonio. Charles Barkley joins us next hour. PJ Carlissimo, the legendary coach will stop by in about 10 minutes. Yes, Dylan, do you want to guess

[Dylan]

what Landry Shamets point prop is? Marvin thinks he's gonna have a big game.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, I'm gonna say eight and a half.

[Dylan]

Seven and a half.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, okay.

[Dylan]

Which I could see him coming out hitting three threes, and then that's it. And hitting the under.

[Paulie]

I did the math. Three threes would do it.

[Dan Patrick]

That would be over. Oh, two threes, you know. Okay, let me explain this to you.

[Dylan]

Oh, no.

[Dan Patrick]

Over. Under seven and a half. If he hits two threes, that would be six.

[Dylan]

I just did three times. Three, Six in my head.

[Dan Patrick]

Once again, you went to the University of Denver. Harvard of the West. Yeah. All right. What's poll question? First hour of the program.

[Dylan]

Well, Dan, we got a couple. Should Wembanyama had been given a flagrant for what it tackling Brunson, throwing him down, however you want to word it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Yes or no?

[Dan Patrick]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Dylan]

And then had he gotten a flagrant, too? Would he have. If you get issued a flagrant two after the game, because if it's mid game, you get ejected, would you be out for the following game automatically? Or is that.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, he's got to get to four points.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes. And then he would be out.

[Dylan]

So had they given him a flag or two, it wouldn't have affected.

[Dan Patrick]

No, no, no, no, no. He has to get to four.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

He would have gotten to three, and then the Knicks would have been all over trying to bait him to get to you. Imagine if we went to, like, game seven and Wemby can't play. Yes. Paulie.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Paulie]

A flagrant one obviously is one point. Flagrant two is two points. Obvious. But if you get that if he was found guilty of a flagrant two this yesterday, he wouldn't play tonight.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, flagrant two. Yes.

[Paulie]

If he would have got. That would have given him points portal.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, no, it's not a basketball move. I mean, Wemby has to, you know, the rest of his career. He's got to understand they're going to try to get inside his head. They're going to bang him around, you know, they're going to hit him, poke him. They, this happens and you gotta, you gotta fight that, that urge. You can't go Draymond Green. You gotta be smarter than that. Can't go Draymond. Yes, Dylan.

[Dylan]

What would Wimy have had to have done for them to issue an after the facts flagrant to like have brass knuckles on or something? It seems like it's impossible.

[Dan Patrick]

Maybe a sleeper hold, Maybe a headlock put him to sleep.

[Dylan]

Rear naked joke.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, but it, but it's right there in the open. That's what I didn't understand is how do you not have eyes on Brunson and Wemby and it's not a basketball play. So I was surprised. But Wemby is only at two points now, not four. Yes, Paul, it's a little early for

[Paulie]

what we learned, but we learned the segment three times three is nine. Two plus two still equals four.

[Dan Patrick]

All right, we'll come up with a poll question. We'll talk to PJ Carlissimo and Barkley in an hour from now. Your phone calls are always welcome. We're back after this in the Dan Patrick Show. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show. Weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from the Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio.

[Dan Patrick]

And in addition to hearing us live

[PJ Carlissimo]

weeknights from 7 to 10pm Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show.

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That's right, you can now watch the

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[Caller]

Check us out on YouTube and subscribe.

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Paulie]

We got clear facts.

[Dan Patrick]

Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road and they're responsible for everything, acceleration, braking, steering, handling, tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you know exactly what you want or you're looking for expert recommendations, Tire Rack has everything you need. You get started. They are shipped fast and free. Free road hazard protection, convenient installation options, including mobile tire installation. They bring the tires to your home or office and install them on site. And of course, the best selection, including the full lineup of Firestone tires. And and they don't just sell tires, they test them on the road, on the test track. Learn how the tires you want tackle evasive maneuvers, drive and stop in the rain, or just handle your everyday commute. They think of everything. TireRack.com Dan you'll see their Firestone test results, tire ratings and consumer reviews. And be sure to check out the current special offers. That's tirerack.com dan the way tire buying should be. We'll get to your phone calls coming up. Settle on our poll question Barkley in an hour from now. PJ Carlissimo won three championships as an assistant coach with the Spurs. He was also an assistant coach with The Dream Team 1992. He's part of the broadcast team calling the NBA Finals on ESPN Radio. Tip off tonight, 8:30 Eastern. How's the voice?

[PJ Carlissimo]

PJ I went down and got some tea and honey. DP It's I'm gonna make it through. The most we got is four more games, but barely.

[Dan Patrick]

But I listened to Doc Rivers, even Mitch Johnson. Like there's this coach voice that I don't know if you ever recover from that, if you continue to coach, do you?

[PJ Carlissimo]

I can assure you you do not. It's funny. The people in San Antonio want Mitch and I to do a show together because they said it's the two worst voices they've ever heard.

[Dan Patrick]

So I was talking about the Wemby that they didn't give him a flagrant. Yeah, I have a hard time with this. PJ to me, it's not a basketball move if you don't want to do a flagrant two. But it is a flagrant foul in my opinion.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Your thoughts were at that. There's been so much going on. DP it wouldn't have bothered me because it wouldn't have made him ineligible and he's smart enough to adjust. But I don't sympathize. Very seldom do I say nice things about officials. DP But These series are impossible. I'm linking the Western Conference. We did the West, Kasty and myself for ESPN Radio, OKC and San Antonio. You didn't know what to call. The teams are so good defensively, but they're being allowed to play so physical that when a call is made, you just go, what prompted him to make that call at that time? They're getting along now. We're getting the Game four. Obviously, in the playoffs, guys are just. Karl Anthony, Towns and Wemby are just hugging each other, wrestling. They're, like, using swim moves, lifting their arms to get away. So I really wasn't bothered by Jalen. Jalen is notorious for jumping in front of people. Matter of fact, it was funny. Steph Castle got a call on him in that game the other day. Jalen drew the most offensive files in the league. 29 charges he drew in the regular season. So I wasn't terribly bothered by it, nor would I have been had they given him a flagrant one because it wasn't going to knock him out. And that would have put all the officials on high alert. It would have put Wemby on high alert. So I'm kind of with you. It wouldn't bother me. But what's going on now? And as we get deeper into the series, it's going to get worse. We got a crew tonight that's the only three guys that haven't worked yet. Zach Sarbon, James Williams and Courtney Kirkland. I think they'll. I think they'll let them play a little bit more. There were a lot of free throws the other night which bothered everybody.

[Dan Patrick]

Did you ever instruct your players on kind of baiting a player, a star? You know, like, if I'm Mike Brown, can I tell my players to bait Wemby to try to get him, you know, into a flagrant?

[PJ Carlissimo]

No, I think the players know themselves.

[Dan Patrick]

They.

[PJ Carlissimo]

They know what to do. These both teams are being so physical. And what's unusual about this one? I mean, you kind of expect the big guys to be pushing each other. Wemby. If you don't have a body on Wemby, they're going to throw 10 lobs in a game. And everybody's wondering, like, why aren't the, you know, spurs getting away with more lobs? Because there's a nick defender against Wemby every time, either undercutting him or backing into him, or they're not letting him just jump up and catch the ball and lay it in like only he can do. What's unusual about this series to Me is you've got a slew of wing defenders on both teams that are way above average, that are way above aggressive. And it's just so physical. It's unbelievable to watch. And it was more noticeable in San Antonio. We sit courtside in New York. It's the worst radio position in the league, unfortunately, so you can't see it quite as well. But I mean, what's going on? Dp if you were sitting courtside and saw it, and I'm sure you, you see it watching ABC and Briny and them, it's unbelievable what now the players are allowed to do defensively.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, but you've been around this game for decades. We, we tend to have a recency bias. But is this more physical than it was back in the 90s or 80s?

[PJ Carlissimo]

Well, maybe not going back. Maybe not going back there. More so overall as you get closer to the basket. What's happening now is you see teams picking up 94ft. Jalen Brunson, they're trying to beat up Jalen from the Tech the second that he gets the ball, just to fatigue him, not just for the end of a game, but for the end of a series. But, you know, shake Elish Alexander, by the time he got to game seven in the OKC series, he had seen so much of Steph Castle and dear Fox and Dylan Harper and Devin Vassell, Julian Cheny, they're just wailing on him the entire game. So it's, it's, that's a little different. In the old days, Joe Deer, those guys you started backing in, once you got inside the free throw line, you couldn't move them. I mean, they had a forearm right there and it was so physical. Lambert and the big guys were doing the same thing. I think what's different now is the pressure away from the basket and particularly with the exceptional defensive teams. And the Knicks, the Thunder and the spurs are way above average defensively. They can guide you 94ft and still stay in front of you. So they're bumping guys the whole, the whole game. It's, it's really different. I mean, to me it's like hockey. I don't know all the hockey terms, terms. I should call McDonough up. They're cross checking or checking or doing, doing whatever you do right now. And it's allowed.

[Dan Patrick]

P.J. carlissimo, ESPN NBA studio analyst. He'll be on the call tonight. And the tip off is 8:30 Eastern. I wasn't surprised. Surprised the Knicks lost game three. In fact, I said on the air that I thought they were going to lose, and it was just a weird feeling. I think they got. You know, you get caught up in the coronation, there's going to be a parade, Brunson gets a statue, president's here, celebrities are here. You did everything but forget to play the game. How does that happen?

[PJ Carlissimo]

I was surprised myself. I wasn't surprised the outcome. I think I was dead on with you all three games. If you told me the spurs were going to lose two at home, I would have said, you're out of your mind. That's not going to happen. Obviously it did the way it looked coming out of there, you know, either team could have even Game one, but certainly Game two, definitely Game three, either team could have won the games. There was so much going on the other night. It was incredible. I mean, I go back, I happened to be at Fordham when the Garden opened up. I mean, if the game was a route, I even got into play in the Garden occasionally. But coach there a ton at Seton hall and at Wagner and obviously in the NBA, the Garden was unlike. I mean, I was at Ali Frazier. I was at both of the championships in 70 and 73, sitting right there. It was different. It was a different vibe in the building. And somehow it appeared. I don't want to take anything away from the Spurs. It appeared to impact the Knicks more than the Spurs. And if you look at the way the first first quarter started, and especially if you look at the way the third quarter started, like the kind of the conventional wisdom at halftime was they got him on the ropes right now. Spurs dominated the first half, let it get away in the last three minutes. They didn't close the quarter. They looked a little shaky. You started saying a young team, and maybe this night's too big for him. They come out and dominate the first five minutes of the second half and turn the game around. Really surprising for a veteran team like the Knicks to appear. And again, I'm not being fair to San Antonio to appear to not understand the magnitude of the night.

[Caller]

And.

[PJ Carlissimo]

And they had a chance to put a stranglehold on this series, and they let the spurs back in it.

[Dan Patrick]

How does Carl Anthony Towns fail to score in the fourth quarter of the first three games?

[PJ Carlissimo]

Surprising because he's played so well going into Game three. He's the runaway leader for MVP in the series. He's played so well offensively and defensively. He's rebounded. He's fingerprints are all over the game. He didn't notice in games one and two. I don't want to Say they didn't need him, but nobody really made a big deal of it. The Cat didn't score in the fourth quarter. It doesn't matter. The Knicks won the games. Now he doesn't score again and everybody goes, what's going on? A JB takes shots in the fourth quarter. Jalen Brunson takes more shots in the fourth quarter because he scores more. Maybe Cat is susceptible to the same thing we're talking about after wrestling with Wemby and Luke Cornett the entire game. Maybe he gets to the fourth quarter and he's a little more tired. He's certainly not the focus of their offense has not been in the first three games. I think so much has been made of it. I think it will change tonight. I, I, you know, I think they'll make sure he gets some shots. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, DPs 0 for 6 in, in, in three quarters now. They won two of the games. It's kind of hard to second guess what's going on, but it's, it's surprising for sure. The Knicks have too many. I mean it's, it's a good problem. They had so many options. Mikhail Bridges takes the game over. OG Anunoby has been rock solid the entire day. He gets like five each quarter. He spreads it around the other guys. It's like a tag team. Oh, I got this quarter. The guy gets 10 points and JB does it in the fourth. Cat does it in the first or in the third. The Knicks have a lot of weapons, but I think Mike Brown would clearly admit, yeah, we got to get Cat going in the fourth quarter.

[Dan Patrick]

What was the difference between game planning against the Pistons when they had a great starting five and that was what, 2005? Yeah, our game planning against a 22 year old LeBron in 2007, the three point shooting.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Now both of these teams have a lot of guys who can shoot the three. That just opens up the floor so much. But the nick, they just array these three point shooters around. They haven't shot it well, truth be told, so far in the series. But they have a lot of good shooters. So they make it really, really difficult to, to help out the way you would do on the big players, even LeBron. I remember when we played Mike was coaching Cleveland, ironically when the spurs played Cleveland in I'm losing my mind. I'm going to say 05 or 07. I think it was 07. Yeah, yeah, they didn't have any, any shooters other than Booby Gibson. There were Times we had five guys in the paint. There was no nowhere for LeBron to go. You can't do that nowadays because of the so many threes being taken, so many good three point shooters. It's different. I don't know that it's necessarily more physical, but now it's. It's almost like you're playing on a bigger court. So you can't load them up and just tee off on these big guys.

[Dan Patrick]

You got a dream team story that I haven't heard.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Your guest that's coming up next time, he was unbelievable. My. My. One of my jobs, the. The little that I contributed, I actually did do. We would put the scouting reports together and believe it or not, the guys they wanted to know because they didn't know the guys by name. We didn't know the international players the way we do now. Pete Scorch and I, who was the Pistons video coordinator at the time, we'd use NBC's equipment at the end of the night and we put together the scout for the next day who we were playing. And then when I got back to the hotel about 2am My job was to go on the Rhombus and just stay by Charles and make sure our guys. So I spent a lot of time with Mr. Barkley on the Rhombus. Spent a lot of time with them the other night after the game. We were. We were at a steakhouse late in the morning, so watching him. And they also made me golf with. With Chuck and Michael and those guys too. Payne Stewart, the late, great Payne Stewart was with us actually in Barcelona for a while and we'd play. So I had a lot of really tough assignments. DP beyond the basketball.

[Dan Patrick]

So your job was to babysit Barkley and play golf with Jordan?

[PJ Carlissimo]

I don't know what I would say. Babysit. I don't want to upset the great. I can't even call him. I used to call him fat, so I can't call him that anymore. He looks so good. I would spend time with Charles, just make sure he got back to the hotel, let's put it that way.

[Dan Patrick]

If somebody ask you how competitive Michael Jordan was, what would you say?

[PJ Carlissimo]

Beyond. Beyond what you would know. It feeds into the fact that he likes to invest the dime. When you're playing golf with him, you're not just going to go out there and play 18 holes. You're going to play and if the match is closed, it's going to become another match. There's presses upon presses upon presses. He's the ultimate competitor. More importantly, he's the ultimate winner. He has to win. He has to win in everything he does. It, it drives him. So you know so much. It's a, it's a great thing to watch. You just have to, you have to understand it's that it's not like most people. Kobe had that same gene. It was incredible. And what surprised me, DP and I didn't understand it until I got into the league. They were willing to do much more than the other player. I'd come back and be yelling at the young players every year, say, what's wrong with this picture? The best guy in the league goes home and he improves his left hand or he becomes a better three point shooter and you go home and you go to the Bahamas. You have a good time. You come back, you work on your game a little bit. The best players in the league are out working you in the summer. I mean, it's not, it's not an accident that these guys do what they do. Kobe did that one of the Olympics. I think it was 08. I think it was Mike K's first time coaching. And I remember a lot of the other players on the team seeing what he was doing. Tim Grover was his workout guy. And before practice even started, he'd have been up in the morning, worked out for two hours and then they'd be sitting at breakfast and Kobe come in sweating and go, where was he? And he was, he was in the weight room for like two hours or he was shooting and they were like shaking their heads going, oh, maybe that's, maybe that's what you're supposed to be. To do if you want to be one of the best players in the league.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, sometimes these players get to the NBA and they think they've made it. When I think we forget like Tiger, Tiger, he outworked everybody and, and Mike. So I think we sometimes downplay the work ethic because we just rely on the lazy. Well, they're just more talented than God given talent.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Did they have absurd talent? Yes, but they outwork the other players. Nobody in the NBA that can't play. These guys can all play, but they can't all work the way LeBron, the way LeBron works now. The way Kobe did, the way Michael did, the way the elite players in the league did. Tim Duncan was the same way. You didn't see it. There wasn't the flare and everything like that. He just outworked people and on top of that was a great talent and was a great competitor.

[Dan Patrick]

Duncan never said anything right.

[PJ Carlissimo]

You know what's Funny. DP Not a good sense of humor. Borderline great sense of humor. Tremendous teammate. Everybody always says, you know, yeah, I don't. I don't want to do interviews, but. But more than half of the people really do. They want. They want to be doing. Doing the show, and so I don't care if I ever do another interview. He and Pop, if they had never had to do an interview, they genuinely would have been happier people. Yeah, it wouldn't have bothered them if they never had to do another interview. But behind the scenes, the stuff. Anytime TD would come on the floor at practice, and I happen to be talking to Pop before practice started about who knows what, TD would walk over and he, like, he would just ignore me, and he would go, poppy. He goes, what. What does he do? Again, like, what. What. What is his job here with the team? It was like, you know, it was an old joke, but he told it about 300 times. Five years. But he was. He really. He has a great sense of humor. He's a great. He's still working out. Pops doing his rehab, still like four days a week in the practice facility in San Antonio. TDs with him virtually every single day. He's just. He's an amazing person. So amazing person.

[Dan Patrick]

Tim Duncan is helping Greg Popovich with

[PJ Carlissimo]

them, just supporting him. I don't know that he's actually doing, you know, any of the. Of the work, but he's there with them every single day.

[Dan Patrick]

I remember when the spurs were going to the NBA Finals, I was there for the Western Conference, and I was trying to get Pop to come up on stage and do an interview. And he kept waving.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Exactly.

[Dan Patrick]

It's like, no, I'm not coming up. And he didn't. He didn't come up and. But everybody would say, oh, you'd love Pop, man. He loves wine. He's, you know, sneaky sense of humor. I go, I'll never. I'll never experience it. He's not letting me in.

[PJ Carlissimo]

But Breen used to. Mike used to ask me all the time when I. When. I mean, we go back to fort him in a hundred years ago, but we work together, even at NBC. And he'd say to me, hey, can. Can I go to one of those. I want to go to one of those wine dinners with you and Pop on the road. And it wasn't every time, but it was very often when we were on a road trip. And. And I said. I said to my. I said, mike, Pop doesn't like you. I said, I don't think he's gonna, he's gonna invite you. And for about, I think for half a year, I think I had him convinced I was telling the truth. And Pop finally let him into a dinner. He let him come to a dinner in Cleveland. We must have been in to play LeBron, I'm assuming. And he let him come to Luca, a really good Italian restaurant in Cleveland. And, and Mike got to see the, the wine bottles lined up and Pop talking about the different one. Mike's now a real fan of red wine and very, very knowledgeable and he used to hardly drink it, but not that that dinner changed it, but he, he wanted to go to one of those for so long. It was really funny when he finally did get to go.

[Dan Patrick]

All right, hold on to that voice. Have fun tonight. And good to talk to you again.

[PJ Carlissimo]

DPU too. Great to be with you. Thank you.

[Dan Patrick]

P.J. carlissimo. He'll be the ESPN radio analyst coming up tonight. He was with Pop in San Antonio, won three championships there. And of course, an assistant coach on the Dream Team. We'll take a break. We're just getting started. Phone calls coming up and our play of the day after this. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live Are you

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[Dan Patrick]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.

[Zepbound Advertiser]

Feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Paulie]

We got clear facts.

[Dan Patrick]

Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road. And they're responsible for everything. Acceleration, braking, steering, handling, tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you know exactly what you want or you're looking for expert recommendations, Tire Rack has everything you need. You get started. They are shipped fast and free. Free road hazard protection, convenient installation options, including mobile tire installation. They bring the tires to your home or office and install them on site. And of course, the best selection, including the full lineup of Falken tires. And they don't just sell tires, they test them on the road, on the test track. Learn how the tires you want tackle evasive maneuvers, drive and stop in the rain or just handle your everyday commute. They think of everything. TireRack.com Dan you'll see their Falcon test results, tire ratings and consumer reviews. And be sure to check out all the current special offers. That's tirerack.com dan the way tire buying should be, when you own your own business, you own every decision. Catch the red eye or take the

[Zepbound Advertiser]

6am Make a new hire or promote internally.

[Dan Patrick]

Celebrate a win with the toast at the gate or unwind at the lounge.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Big props to this team.

[Dan Patrick]

Some decisions are a win win, like earning eight times points on Chase Travel. Chase Sapphire reserved for business, the business card that gives back all you put in. Visit chase.com Reserve Business to learn more. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank. Any member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Oh my God.

[Dan Patrick]

The play of the day. And play this is the play of the day. Check this out. Jarvis all alone now.

[PJ Carlissimo]

Back at it from Skull. A backhanding scores. He scores again. Oh my goodness. The captain is unreal. Is second of the game and the Hurricanes have got a 43 lead with 13 28. Oh, captain, my captain.

[Dan Patrick]

That's courtesy of 99.9 the fan. Man, I would try to conserve that voice. Jordan stalls his second goal of the game. Hurricanes and the Golden Knights have combined for 33 goals. That's the most through the first four games of a Stanley Cup Final since 1981. Play of the Day brought to you by Liberty Mutual. Why pay full price when you can customize and save? Switch to Liberty Mutual. Customize your home and auto insurance. You only pay for what you need.

[Paulie]

Yes, Paul, the announcer at the end, there he went. Dead poet society. Oh, captain, my captain. With Robin Williams there. Yeah, that's a great call.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Great movie.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Paulie]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Or good movie.

[Paulie]

Dead poets aside, I would say great.

[Dan Patrick]

Very re.

[Paulie]

Watchable.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. Yeah. Well, the scene in the classroom when they all stand on their desk.

[Paulie]

Oh, captain, my captain.

[Dan Patrick]

That's great. It's. That's a great scene.

[Paulie]

It's a prime Robin Williams flick.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. But it's always, you know, sometimes you look at the comedians when they do something a little more. Now, he had funny lines in there, but still, it's more of a serious movie. And sometimes we look at the comedian, then they do something serious like Sandler. Sandler. People don't, you know, acknowledge his acting until he does something serious. And they'll go, man, do you see him? And Uncut Gems, it's like, yes. I mean, Sandler knows how to act and he can be serious. Will Ferrell, you know, some of these guys that you look at and you just laugh when you see them, but then you see them in a serious turn, you go, wow, I didn't know you could act. Yes, Marvin.

[Marvin]

I feel like that's a cheat code. That's why I'm surprised that Adam didn't get nominated for Uncut Gems. So you got to think like Jamie Foxx. He won an Oscar for Ray, Robin Williams, Good Will Hunting, Monique and Precious. It feels like a cheat code.

[Dan Patrick]

Yep. I can't believe Sandler didn't get nominated for Uncut Gems. What a crime. What a crime. Red. And Georgia is back. Good morning, Red. What do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey, dad. Thanks for taking the call, Dan. When I first thought about this series, I always thought about what the referee was going to do in this series. And it's a great thing. They letting these teams play and make it very watchable, even though it's physical. Dead. The only thing I see wrong with that WIMBY call is that New York knits didn't call a timeout, put someone in the game and send a message to women, say, hey, you ain't gonna be doing our little guy like this. You are not gonna do this on our watch. And I think that was the only thing wrong with that play. The Knicks, the Knicks game, the physical niche that sent a message to women picking on Living o'. Brien. Man, who would have thought about it then? Ain't that something?

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, I know. Old NBA. They would have sent in Rick. Rick Mahorn here. Here comes Greg Kite. Like we're. Here comes Rambus. Here comes the message being sent.

[Marvin]

Yes, Morv, that was the best part about the 90s. You didn't know if certain guys knew how to play basketball or not, but you knew what they were there for. Like, I watched a lot of Knicks games. I didn't know Oakley could hit that 15 footer. No, but I know he could punch you in the face.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, he could hit you. Anthony Mason. Like, you just had guys that they're in and it's kind of like an enforcer in hockey. Roy in Idaho. Hi, Roy. What's on your mind?

[Caller]

Hey, good morning, DP. Appreciate you taking my call. Third time, long time. 5 8-1-8 2. Thanks, ADP. I understand why all the talk is about the wimpy Brunson play from game three the other night, but there was something else that I noticed that I'm surprised nobody else has brought up. When Josh Hart went to the hoop and he got fouled and got up and started pushing around the shoving match with the backup center for the Spurs, I swear that I saw at least two players come off of the bench from the Knicks. Whatever happened to technical fouls for coming off of the bench? I remember back when I think it was Phoenix.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, Maurice Stoudemire.

[Caller]

Exactly. What happened to that? It seemed like that just went to the side.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, maybe I'll get the I team on that, but thank you, Roy. James in Iowa. Hi, James.

[Caller]

Hi, Dan. Thanks for taking my call. Six foot two, 18. Now, I'm not a big hockey guy, but I was enjoying the playoffs last night and I need a little help with this phrase and perhaps it's a good T shirt idea. Sean McDonough described a shot as a knuckle puck. I'm not sure that can be said on television, but it would look great on a shirt.

[Dan Patrick]

All right. The graphic design, very graphic design. Thank you, James. Yeah, there's. You can see where the puck will knuckle. So that's what he's talking about.

[Paulie]

Yes, Paulie I went back and looked at that clip and the caller's right. When Josh Hart and Cornette got into it, I would say a good four bench players when they leave the bench for the Knicks, they go down the baseline, they don't enter the court. I don't know if there's a differentiation, but they, they almost engage the little skirmish and they definitely leave the bench for at least four.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, I don't know if you don't go on the court because I, I

[Paulie]

think, I thought it was leave the bench area, but I got checked the wording. Yeah, but it's, it's definitely the guys towards the end of the bench, the role players, they leave.

[Dan Patrick]

Charles Barkley will join us coming up in about 25 minutes. Hour two on the way, update the poll results. Awesome scene in Auburn, Alabama, Argentina and Iceland. World Cup. They had like 88,000 fans there. One hour in the books on this Wednesday. Two more to go back after this.

[Zepbound Advertiser]

Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound Tirzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is Approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type. 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-5-455979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com lot to celebrate this summer.

[Dan Patrick]

And why not take the beverage with you that loves to celebrate with you? Keep it classic. It's Miller Lite. Whether you're toasting the birth of our nation, our soccer team, or maybe just a warm evening deck, it's Miller time in America. That's why I reach for a Miller Lite. And you should too. All American summer starts with an all American beer. Go to millerlight.com Patrick Find delivery options near you or pick up Miller Lite pretty much anywhere that they sell beer. It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. We all seem to be in a

[Paulie]

rush these days, but when you're behind the wheel, please do not speed. So follow the speed limit.

[Dan Patrick]

A few minutes saved by going faster

[Paulie]

is never worth the risk.

[Dan Patrick]

Paid for by NHTSA what's up cousin?

[Paulie]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[PJ Carlissimo]

But when I switched to T Mobile

[Zepbound Advertiser]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[PJ Carlissimo]

And the best part?

[Dan Patrick]

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[PJ Carlissimo]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[PJ Carlissimo]

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[Zepbound Advertiser]

Com this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.