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- [00:00]
Dr. Leitra Tate
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th, it's back to Deals Time, where you can enjoy storewide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Califia Farms, Pillsbury Crescent, Yoplait, General Mills, Prego, Bertoli, Heinz and Kraft. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [00:35]
Noah de Barrasso
I'm Noah and I'm 13 and I started this podcast because, honestly, adults don't ask the right questions. Now you Know with Noah de Barrasso is a show about influence. Who's got it, how they use it, and what it means. For the rest of you, it's not the news, it's what the news should be if someone Gen Z or Gen Alpha made it. Politics is wild and I'm definitely not here to tame it, but I'm here to make sense of it. Listen to now youw Know with Noah de arrasto on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you your podcast. Summer's here and with the kids home and off to camp, it's easy for moms to get lost in the shuffle on Good Moms Bad Choices. We're making space to center ourselves with joy, rest and pleasure. Take the kids to camp. You know what? It was expensive, but I was also thinking, you have my kid. This is kind of priceless. Take her, feed her, make core memories. I don't have to do anything. Main thing, I don't have to do anything to hear this and more. Listen to Good Mom's Bad Choices from Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. When I became a journalist, I was the first Latina in the newsrooms where I worked. I'm Maria Hinojosa. I spent my career creating journalism that centers voices who have been historically sidelined. From the most pressing news stories to deep cultural explorations, Latino USA is journalism with heart. Listen to Latino usa, the longest running Latino news and culture show in the United States. Hear it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:11]
Dan Patrick
It's Black Business Month and Black Tech Green money is tapping in. I'm Will Lucas spotlighting black founders, investors and innovators building the future one idea at a time. Let's talk legacy tech and generational wealth.
- [02:24]
Commercial Announcer
I had the skill and I had the talent. I didn't have the opportunity.
- [02:29]
Noah de Barrasso
Yeah, we all know, right?
- [02:30]
Mike Harmon
Genius is evenly distributed.
- [02:32]
Noah de Barrasso
Opportunity is not.
- [02:34]
Dan Patrick
To hear this and more on the power of black innovation and ownership, listen to black tech, Green Money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio, Hour two in this Tuesday, the popular Mike Florio from NBC Sports will stop by here in a moment. And the director of the documentary on the Dallas Cowboys that's set to be released. It's called America's Team the Gambler and His Cowboys. We'll talk to the the director and producer McLean Way he and his brother part of Netflix sports documentary series Untold. They also did Malice at the Palace. They did the Manti Teo Story, the Girlfriend who Didn't Exist. They did Johnny Football Crimes and Penalties and many others. So there's a documentary that's coming out and coming out today on Netflix. So we'll talk to him coming up. Chase Daniel will break down some of the film. Nobody does it better than he does. Former quarterback. He'll break down some of these preseason performances that we've seen and why we should be very excited or maybe we cool our jets on that. Bengals beat the Commanders. And a breakout night for Mitchell Tinsley. He played at Western Kentucky Community College also and Penn State for one year. He had a couple of touchdown receptions. And then you find out, look at that depth chart. He's probably not even going to make the roster. Mitchell Tinsley, Yes, Paul.
- [04:06]
Mike Florio
I have him as the seventh wide.
- [04:08]
Mike Harmon
Receiver on the depth chart.
- [04:11]
Dan Patrick
They'll probably keep six, but he might be a practice squad guy. Our starting lineup, Fritzi, very, very popular with the listeners and of course with us as well. He's the minister of humor. Seaton's here. Marvin Paulie, yours truly in the BRGs. Matthew Stafford still iffy for the Rams. I know Sean McVeigh. It's like he's looking for different ways to describe what's going on without giving too much information. It just feels like Matthew Stafford on the outside looking in. And we we saw Stetson Bennett. He played every snap. Now, maybe they don't want to put in Jimmy Garoppolo because they don't want to have him out there. Maybe he gets hurt because he is your backup quarterback. And Joe Flacco, as I told you, all of this talk of everybody they brought in and draft picks and I said they're going to start Joe Flacco, but that doesn't mean some of these other quarterbacks, certainly Shador Sanders, won't get playing time this year. Satan, what's the poll question? And then we'll get to Mike Florio, and we're just putting up there a.
- [05:13]
Mike Harmon
New one from Paul.
- [05:14]
Dan Patrick
Whose career would you want, Joe Flacco or Philip Rivers? Oh, wow. Well, one has a chance for the hall of Fame. One did win a Super Bowl. Gets another this year. Oh, if he wins a Super bowl this year, I'm, I'm. I'll personally carry him to the hall of Fame. Yes, Paul, Joe Flacco never even made.
- [05:41]
Mike Harmon
A Pro bowl as an alternate in his entire career, but is a Super bowl mvp. Phil Rivers, I think at least eight Pro Bowls.
- [05:49]
Dan Patrick
Yeah. All right, that one's interesting. Let's bring in Mike Florio, the popular host of Pro Football Talk. Let me start there. Mike, whose career do you want? Joe Flacco or do you want Philip Rivers?
- [06:05]
Mike Florio
Probably Flacco, because it's the ultimate team sport. You want to win a Super Bowl. He won a Super Bowl. He was twice the highest paid player player in all of football. And I love the fact, Dan, when you think about true franchise quarterbacks, guys who were once paid more than anyone else in the sport, for him to be willing to humble himself and be a backup for years and just keep playing, keep going. How many guys do that? Could you imagine Peyton Manning holding a clipboard once his starting days ended? It really is refreshing to see a guy who loves the sport so much. He hangs around, he gets his chance. And off of Paulie's point about the Pro bowl, my favorite fact about the current Cleveland Browns roster. At quarterback, they have six guys and one Pro Bowler, Tyler Huntley. The other five, no Pro Bowls.
- [06:54]
Dan Patrick
Mike's latest novel, Big Shield, debuts today on Amazon. A tale of gambling, the mob and pro football. But for legal reasons, it's definitely not about the NFL.
- [07:06]
Mike Florio
I can't stop you. You know, there's a franchise in Vegas. There's a franchise in Baltimore, there's a franchise in Minnesota. I can't stop the reader from envisioning the colors and the logos and the name. But for legal reasons, I just go with Vegas, Baltimore, Minnesota. They can't copyright city and state names.
- [07:29]
Dan Patrick
Do you expect to hear from the NFL?
- [07:32]
Mike Florio
No, I think they'll ignore the book. I think it will bother them enough that they'll ignore it. That that'll be the strategy. However, they should like it because, Dan, it's a Cautionary tale about what can happen with inside information. There's so much inside information out there. Who's really injured, who's not, what's the game plan, who's going to get the ball, all sorts of things before games and during games. I know they're concerned about guys on the sidelines giving signals to people who would lock in micro bets for runner pass. Coincidentally, that's what happens in this book. That's the premise. A backup quarterback for the Vegas franchise of a fictional pro football league gets tied in with a mobster. And it all kind of goes from there, where this relationship has ups and downs and twists and turns, and 400 pages later, you get a resolution.
- [08:20]
Dan Patrick
It's called Big Shield. Now the NFL is called the Shield, Mike.
- [08:26]
Mike Florio
Well, that's right. And I loosely refer to the NFL as Big Shield. So it's all part of the game. Look, I want. Did you see the Billy Joel documentary? The best thing that ever happened to him was the Catholic Church banning only the good die Young. He sent them a note saying, will you please ban my other songs? When people feel like they're not supposed to read or watch or listen to something, it makes them want it even more.
- [08:50]
Dan Patrick
Do you want the NFL to sue you?
- [08:53]
Mike Florio
Oh, they won't sue me. No, Dan, they won't. They won't sue me because nothing in here infringes on any of their copyrights, and it's a pure work of fiction. There's nothing in there that libels anyone. All the characters are made up. The whole thing is completely made up. The only issue would be copyrights. I don't use NFL. I don't use team names. I'm. I'm. I'm safe there. Now. If they would want to sue me, if it would help book sales, then, you know, I would. I would deal with that. But they won't. They'll ignore it like they remember the film Concussion. They were scared to death of that movie, and their strategy was to ignore it, and they did, and it worked. It didn't really move the needle.
- [09:31]
Dan Patrick
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this whole smelling salts. We know it's supposed to mask a concussion, right? Why are they allowing you to still bring in something? It's bring your own smelling salts meant to mask concussions. Shouldn't you make that illegal so we can detect if you have a concussion?
- [09:57]
Mike Florio
This is one of the realities of collective bargaining. And collective bargaining can be very good, but it also can become ridiculous, because if the league were to go to the players and say we want a complete and total ban on smelling salts. The players would be inclined to say, what's in it for us? If you want the ban, we're going to say we don't. So we can get something from you to give you what you want. And it works both ways. Look, marijuana legal in most of the states now where the NFL does business. Why don't we just get rid of it? Well, it's a. It's a collective bargaining issue. So what's in it for us? This is the NFL. What's in it for us if we agree to get rid of it? So it's ludicrous. When the union sent out to the players, oh, hey, you can still bring your own. It's like, wait a minute, is this really a good idea? Should they be having these things around? Should they be using these things? Yeah, the whole thing's ridiculous. And the sooner those things are off the sideline, the better off everyone will be.
- [10:56]
Dan Patrick
This garnered a lot of headlines, but we know why. It's Shador Sanders, Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel saying that basically there's entertainers and then he's a competitor and people thought he's referencing Shador Sanders. Did you hear it that way? That he was referencing people in the media and not Shador Sanders?
- [11:18]
Mike Florio
Well, I think it's reasonable to look at those comments and consider the context and come to the conclusion that he was making a comment about Shadur Sanders. I think that's not an unreasonable reaction. And that's what happens when you put your words out there into the public space for consumption. People are going to come to whatever conclusions they want. I didn't take it that way, but I could see somebody looking at that and thinking, oh, he's taking a little bit of a shot there. At the end of the day, he is a competitor. I mean, he walked through the door with the mindset he's going to be the starter. He's become the starter everywhere he's been. The Browns quarterback depth chart is fascinating, Dan. And they're a week away from having to decide how many of these guys are they going to have on the 53 man roster. I think Kenny Pickett's going to be the odd man out. I think it's going to be Flacco and the two Rickies rookies competing and or entertaining all of us. Throughout the course of the 2025 season.
- [12:09]
Dan Patrick
We spent a good portion of the first hour talking about how bad the commander's uniforms look. According to Paulie, he thinks they're the worst Uniforms in the NFL. Then he gave me his bottom five in there. I'll ask you, where do you sit on the commander's uniforms? Home uniforms.
- [12:29]
Mike Florio
I don't think they're that bad. No, there are worse. The Dolphins I think are the worst. The Dolphins base uniforms are horrible. They should make their throwbacks their full time uniforms. I mean, they're worried about the perception that they're soft. Those uniforms scream soft, right? You see the throwbacks. The throwbacks are badass. Like if you want to. And, and you ask any NFL player how you look is how you feel. The projection, the image, everything, the toughness, it all oozes from how you look. So I think the commanders are fine. The Dolphins are horrible. And don't get me started on the Nike vacation of the NFL with all the alternate look, I will gladly say get off my lawn. I want to be able to turn on an NFL game and know right away who's playing. I don't want to have to sift through throwbacks and alternate uniforms and what are they wearing this week? That drives me crazy. And it's all Nike's fault.
- [13:25]
Dan Patrick
Talking to Mike Florio from Pro Football Talk Live. You can see that show at precedes hours on Peacock. He also contributes to NBC Football Night in America. I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the Rams with Matthew Stafford because every time Sean McVeigh gets in front of the media, he says the same thing but uses different words. Here is Sean McVeigh talking about Matthew Stafford.
- [13:50]
Mike Harmon
It was good to be able to have Matthew out there. He did a good job today.
- [13:53]
Mike Florio
I thought he looked good, but you.
- [13:55]
Mike Harmon
Know, I don't really have any updates.
- [13:56]
Mike Florio
You know, I think there was a.
- [13:58]
Mike Harmon
Lot of intended information, but there's no updates. We're going to keep it a day and really a week at a time. But, you know, we'll see how this afternoon goes and tomorrow.
- [14:07]
Dan Patrick
Okay, Mike, what's going on here?
- [14:11]
Mike Florio
The key is when he says a week at a time. They're still concerned that this back problem isn't resolved. The goal was to give him a long Runway between when he had the epidural in June and when he started throwing and practicing. And the idea was when he comes back, he's fine. It's not an issue. It's over. It's, it's calmed down. He can go play 17 games without it acting up. That didn't fly. He threw 68 passes on Saturday last he was supposed to practice the following Monday and all of a sudden he doesn't. And for Matthew Stafford, that's a big deal because this guy's tough as nails. He's John Wayne. He's going to fight through anything, any pain, any discomfort. He doesn't care. And so the fact that he practiced yesterday, it's all very tentative. He said Stafford, I mean, McVeigh, excuse me, said, we'll see how the afternoon goes. Like they're constantly going to be watching him. How's he reacting to every workout, every practice, every game, every throw. And I think this is going to hover over them into the regular season and then he's going to start getting hit during games. It's not going to get any better. So I think they need to feel very good about their backups. It's Jimmy Garoppolo and Stetson Bennett. And we may see Garoppolo play at some point in the regular season because this just doesn't feel like it's sustainable for 17 regular season games.
- [15:32]
Dan Patrick
Well, I thought the tell was that Garoppolo didn't play at all this last game, that Stetson Bennett played every single play. As if Sean McVeigh is saying, I can't have you out there and risk you getting injured when I have Matthew Stafford, who might not be ready to go. So they sent Stetson Bennett out there to throw 40 passes.
- [15:51]
Mike Florio
They went through this last year. They had to be sure Stetson Bennett was ready to back up Matthew Stafford for the first two games of the season because Garoppolo was suspended. So they had to trust Bennett and they have to have Bennett ready in the event that he's the number two to Garoo. And I think they'll keep Garoppolo in bubble wrap in the event that they've got to play him week one. It'll probably be Stetson Bennett and Dresser win this weekend in the preseason finale and they just got to hope for the best. I mean, Stafford is one of the toughest guys that I've seen in years in the NFL and he doesn't complain. I think he's had injuries nobody knows about, not even his wife. He just shuts up and he goes, but this is one. I mean, back issues. I mean, once that thing grabs you, it changes you and it's not easy. And I don't know how many, I don't know how many Toradol shots you can take to overcome it, but I think it's just going to be a day to day, week to week thing. And right now I don't feel confident. One way or the other. He's going to be good to go week one. I don't think anybody knows if he's going to be good to go week one.
- [16:51]
Dan Patrick
Who's more hall of Famey? We had this two weeks ago. Matthew Stafford or Russell Wilson Jr. III?
- [16:58]
Mike Florio
Oh, without question. Stafford. Without question. I mean, Wilson has, has slipped the past few years. And I remember when Eli Manning was in the final years of his career. Shereen Williams, who works with as a PFT and is one of the hall of Fame voters, she expressed the concern to me that if, if Eli hangs around like this, he's going to undermine his case. Russell Wilson has undermined his case the past few years. Remember Kurt Warner had that and then he sprang back to the super bowl with the Cardinals. I mean, Russell Wilson is going to make it harder for him to get in the longer he plays. And he's a shadow of what he was when he was at his best. I think Stafford is that guy. His numbers are incredible. He's higher and higher on the all time list and he's just kind of, I think it's because of his time in Detroit, Dan. We just never really noticed him, but he's been one of the greats and he hasn't had that dip and he's got the super bowl win and he's still going strong at 37.
- [17:55]
Dan Patrick
What if we reversed their career? So Stafford wins early and then doesn't do anything, whereas Russ doesn't do anything and then all of a sudden is in eight or nine Pro Bowls. He goes to two Super Bowls, he win. Like if, have you ever looked at if we reversed careers, how we would look at some of these players?
- [18:18]
Mike Florio
Oh, I think it's always better to finish strong. But when you say not do anything, even when Stafford was losing, he was great. Wilson has been statistically not great. And just the eyeball test, he's not the guy that he used to be.
- [18:32]
Dan Patrick
Stafford's always got 10 Pro Bowls, Mike. He's got 10, Stafford's got two. Well, Russ has better stats.
- [18:41]
Mike Florio
Yeah. Now look at the career numbers though. Look at the career numbers. Stafford, Stafford is inching higher and higher on the all time list. I, I, I hear what you're saying. I just think that it's gone so badly since Russell Wilson was traded to the Broncos and this is what he wanted. He wanted it to be all about him. He wanted to let Russ cook. And what happened from the moment he got to Denver, the career has gone off the rails. And yeah, last year in Pittsburgh, there were moments but Boy, it fell apart down the stretch and who knows? Hey, he still throws a beautiful deep ball at pass he threw. The Steelers wouldn't let him throw down the middle of the field last year. They thought he was too short to throw down the middle field. Beautiful 80 yard pass down the middle of the field. He still can do it. The question is, when it starts to fall apart, can he get away from pressure? He used to be able to do it. Now he can't.
- [19:31]
Dan Patrick
He's Mike Florio and once again, his book is definitely not about the NFL.
- [19:37]
Mike Florio
Thank you.
- [19:38]
Dan Patrick
It's a novel. It's called Big Shield and it debuts today on Amazon. A tale of gambling, the mob and pro football. Once again, definitely not about the NFL.
- [19:49]
Mike Florio
You can be a witness when they sue me.
- [19:52]
Dan Patrick
Thank you, Mike. That's Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Live. You can see that show with Chris Sims prior to this one on Peacock. We take a break. He is the director and producer of a new documentary that drops today. It's about the Dallas Cowboys. We'll come back with that after this. Be sure to catch the live edition.
- [20:13]
Mike Harmon
Of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports.
- [20:18]
Dan Patrick
Radio and the iHeartRadio app he's Mike Harmon.
- [20:21]
Mike Harmon
I'm Dan Byard. We have a brand new fantasy football podcast called I Want yout Flex. Twice a week, every Tuesday and Friday, we come up with new episodes to not only look back at what happened, what you need to do at that minute, and also look ahead of what's coming up in the fantasy football world. That's right Dan. And every week we're going to scour the waiver wire to find the pickups to Turbo boost your fantasy lineup sits.
- [20:46]
Dan Patrick
Starts fantasy football players rankings to get.
- [20:49]
Mike Harmon
You ready to dominate the competition.
- [20:51]
Ryan Seacrest
Listen to I Want yout Flex with.
- [20:53]
Mike Harmon
Mike Harmon and me, Dan Beyer on.
- [20:55]
Ryan Seacrest
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever.
- [20:57]
Mike Harmon
You get your podcasts.
- [21:00]
Commercial Announcer
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- [21:59]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th. It's back to deals time where you can enjoy storewide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Califia Farms, Pillsbury Crescent, Yoplait, General Mills, Prego, Bertoli, Heinz and Kraft. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery. Subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [22:31]
Mike Harmon
Lo save que tiempuenos proyectos es importante.
- [22:35]
Dan Patrick
To mismo villa en Marcas como Valspar.
- [22:39]
Mike Harmon
HGTV Home the Sherwin Williams Cabot y Purdy Los nosotros ayudamos 2 ahoras.
- [22:59]
Dr. Leitra Tate
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [23:01]
Dan Patrick
Through something like that is a traumatic experience. But it's also not the end of your life.
- [23:07]
Dr. Leitra Tate
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leitra Tate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:02]
John Lithgow
Hello, I'm John Lithgow.
- [24:03]
Mike Florio
We choose to go to the moon.
- [24:05]
John Lithgow
I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast that's One Small Step for Man. It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.
- [24:15]
Mike Harmon
You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen.
- [24:19]
John Lithgow
That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.
- [24:24]
Commercial Announcer
To depression, alcohol abuse and suicide.
- [24:27]
John Lithgow
We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.
- [24:30]
Dan Patrick
What do you say, Buzz?
- [24:31]
Mike Florio
Another beer.
- [24:32]
John Lithgow
And triumph over addiction.
- [24:34]
Noah de Barrasso
Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.
- [24:37]
John Lithgow
Good luck to you and become a true hero.
- [24:39]
Dan Patrick
Buzz and I will proceed into the.
- [24:41]
John Lithgow
Lunar module not because he conquered, but because he conquers himself.
- [24:48]
Mike Harmon
Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.
- [24:50]
John Lithgow
Starring me, John Lithgow.
- [24:52]
Dan Patrick
Can you put it through Translate on.
- [24:55]
John Lithgow
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [25:01]
Dan Patrick
More of your phone calls coming up. 877-3-DP show email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle DP show the documentary available today. America's Team the Gambler and His Cowboys. It chronicles Jerry Jones and the era of the Cowboys. The good years, the 90s, the dynasty, but also some controversies and key figures. McLean Way is the producer, director, and he and his brother, they've done a wonderful job with Netflix, with the untold documentaries. Who set the parameters here, McLean, of what you could and could not talk about with the Cowboys?
- [25:40]
Mike Harmon
We did. You know, it's like Jerry was one of our first questions when we hopped on the project. You always want to know, like, wait, who gets to control what goes in and what goes out of a project? And luckily, we've been making documentaries with Netflix for. For over 10 years, and they're really trusted partners, and we work with them a lot. And ultimately they. They got to kind of decide as we would send them cuts and things like that. So Jerry was an open book. There were no questions that. That were off the table. And he was, like, incredibly supportive of the documentary and what we made. And when we showed him the documentary, he said that there were very painful reminders for him. So I think he liked parts of it. I think there are other parts that were a little tough for him to watch, but all in all, he's very supportive.
- [26:26]
Dan Patrick
What era does this cover?
- [26:28]
Mike Harmon
Yeah, this is mostly focused on, like, the early 90s. You know, I think episode seven gets us about halfway through to what the Michael Irvin trial was, which was happened about three weeks after they won their third Super Bowl. So it's mostly chronological and linear, but starts with Jerry striking oil and netting himself $100 million, going and buying the Dallas Cowboys from Bum Bright, firing Tom Landry and igniting an Incredible amount of controversy. Brings in Jimmy Johnson, his friend from, you know, when he was 17 years old. They went back to back Super Bowls. Massive divorce between the two of them. Brings in Barry Switzer to win one more. And then we kind of quickly get into, you know, kind of the downfall, the decline of this team on the field and this 30 year year, 30 year streak of not really being able to replicate that super bowl success.
- [27:19]
Dan Patrick
What's the wildest story in the documentary?
- [27:23]
Mike Harmon
There was a lot. I mean, I think that this documentary is like a big reason why we jumped on. It is a bit of a murderer's row of talking heads. Like, yes, Jerry is a big and larger life character. Jimmy is as well. You got Michael, Troy, Emmett, and then you got Dion. He comes in in episode five. So that was a huge reason why we obviously jumped at this. There were fun stories about the halftime, the first super bowl at Pasadena because Michael Jackson played the halftime show. And so Michael Irvin and Charles Haley dipped out on Jimmy Johnson's halftime speech to go watch Michael Jackson do Thriller at the Rose Bowl. And so stuff like that was things that I didn't quite know about. But as these guys roll into these stories, all of a sudden they're telling you about how they, they go watch Michael Jackson. So stuff like that was always super fun.
- [28:13]
Dan Patrick
Did Dion talk about going to a hotel room and walking in and seeing Michael in bed with a bunch of women and Dion said, mike, I don't live this way, and. And walked out of the hotel room. It's.
- [28:28]
Mike Harmon
It's a story that sounds familiar. I don't think it was Deion Sanders. I heard that story from Michael, but it was Terrell Owens. And it was Terrell Owens that came into a hotel room. And it was right after.
- [28:39]
Dan Patrick
There might be. There might be a number of people who experienced that.
- [28:43]
Mike Harmon
It's true.
- [28:45]
Dan Patrick
Let's just, just be honest with you.
- [28:49]
Mike Harmon
You have some options of people that you want to choose from. But I heard it was Mike Tyson after he got out of prison. And they all went into a limo and had a nice suite in Vegas. And Terrell Owens came in and his eyes got his biggest saucers. And apparently he said, I can't. I don't live this life. I can't do this. And so they, Mike and Mike scared away to apparently is the story that I was told.
- [29:14]
Dan Patrick
We learned anything new about Jimmy Johnson's exit from the Cowboys?
- [29:19]
Mike Harmon
Yeah, I mean, I think that the access to both Jerry and Jimmy was fundamental and crucial to why we wanted to make this documentary. Series. And I know that they've spoken at length, almost separately, about their relationship. And then when they have gotten together to chat about it, it's maybe like a short segment that they did on Fox. But for us, our opportunity was we got to sit down with Jimmy for a full day, I think seven hours of interviews. And we filmed with him a couple more days. And then Jerry, we interviewed for about 40 hours. So for us, the opportunity to go deep with these guys was really what drew us to it. And obviously, I know that it's been covered for years, and I think that this is. There is an element of this is true, which is their egos got too big. They had a massive credit argument, and they tried to claim more credit than the other one felt. And I certainly think that that's a part of their story. But for us, we tried to go a little bit deeper. For Jerry, I felt that what ultimately I ended up kind of feeling as I made this documentary series was this was a guy who had a transformative experience in college. It was the best moment of his life. He won the 1964 national championship at the University of Arkansas. Years later, he nets himself $100 million. And he does what maybe I would do or my friends would do if they won a hundred million dollars overnight. They go and they buy the Dallas Cowboys. And I think he did that in an attempt to kind of recapture a really big, beautiful, transformative part of his life in college. And he hires a guy that he's known since he's 17 years old. But Jimmy's point is, like, Jerry, you hired me to do a job, and I need to go out and convince these players day in, day out to go sacrifice their body and their health so that we can win Lombardi Trophies. And. And every Sunday, they need to go and do that. But the locker room, practice, these are my areas. And when you come in, you can be a distraction in that endeavor. When you bring camera, ESPN cameras into the draft room, things like that, I think ultimately started just really rubbing these guys the wrong way. So they kind of almost had different schools of thought, I would say. And listen, there's still some things that these guys are never going to agree on. If you get them in the same room and ask them who deserves credit for the Herschel Walker trade, you're. You're just. You're never going to get the same answer. You know, they're just. That that's how they feel, and that's how they're always going to feel. But I do think that they still have a lot of actual respect and admiration that's grown for each other. They've always had that to a certain degree. And I think that that's beautiful. It's okay to disagree with people forever and still get along. Jerry and Jimmy teach us that.
- [31:48]
Dan Patrick
McClain Ways producer, director, co director executive producer of the new documentary on Netflix, America's Team the Gambler and His Cowboys I started to think about this with Jerry, and it's hard to tell a billionaire that they're wrong. And, you know, nobody's going to tell. Jerry's not going to listen to anybody. But I go back in his coaching tree and it felt like there were only two coaches who didn't need Jerry. Jerry, you know, Brian Schottenheimer, Jason Garrett, Dave Campo, like, these guys all needed this job. They needed Jerry. Bill Parcells did not need Jerry, and Jimmy Johnson did not. Does Jerry talk about who he's hired or why he's hired these coaches? Who. This is America's team. You would think you could get any coach that you wanted to coach these teams.
- [32:40]
Mike Harmon
Yeah, it's a great question. And actually, I didn't really dive into Jerry too much throughout the, you know, each and individual head coach that he's hired over the years. But I, we, we hung out a lot as he was making the Schottenheimer decision. And I don't know, for better or worse. And I listen, I did not grow up a Cowboys fan, so I, I grew up in Los Angeles in the late 90s, so I unfortunately didn't have an NFL team to root for. But so I didn't quite feel it as hard as the fans do. But Jerry, as he neared the Schottenheimer decision, talked about comfortability. That was like a big word that he used time and time again. He was comfortable with Schottenheimer, comfortable with Shinheimer, which did strike me as unique because this is a guy that has taken risk after risk after risk. And even with something like the Johnny Manziel story that he kind of tells about Steven being like, we're not going to trap Johnny Manziel and Jerry being like, all right, we're not going to drop Jenny Manziel. But Jerry's retort is, you know, that was a middle of the road decision and I didn't build the Dallas Cowboys the way I did by making middle of the road decisions. You have to take risks because the reward is just, you know, 10x what you can get. But Schottheimer was a comfortable decision for Jerry. And I don't, I don't know if that's because he feels like he's very close to what he. Where he ultimately wants to get to a Super bowl and he doesn't want to change things up too much. But I was a little like, okay, interesting. We're not really making like a big, risky, splashy choice here. He's going to go with someone that he's comfortable with.
- [34:08]
Dan Patrick
There's a quote that's attributed to the athletic, and it's the Cowboys 2023 playoff loss to the packers, where midway through the fourth quarter, it's 48 to 16. And Jerry, in the documentary says, this loss hurt us in every way more than anyone we've ever had. That's the worst loss in Jerry Jones's career.
- [34:32]
Mike Harmon
That's what he said. And, man, that we were with that team a lot in 2023. And ultimately, I think if they would have had a deep playoff run, it probably would have been a larger part of the documentary series, kind of following the team on the road that year and filming them a lot. And listen, I was on the Cowboys hype train that year, too, because, you know, they were kind of undefeated at home. They had won, I think, like 16 games at AT&T, and they were coming in to play Green Bay, and I, you know, I think they were the favorite and I was looking forward to that game. But watching Jerry watch that game, I mean, that family got shell shocked that game. There's, there's no doubt Jerry was quiet and intense as he was watching what felt like a very good chance for hopefully a playoff run kind of crumble in front of him. And there was no doubt. I mean, it was like after that game, we had been at Cowboys games after losses before. This one was different. Obviously it's the end of the season, so it carries that weight. But it just felt like this family had been through a very terrible experience watching, watching Green Bay put up the numbers that they did against, against the Cowboys. And no doubt Jerry said this loss hurt. It hurt on so many different levels is what he said. He said it hurt. It set us back. It was a financial pain. It was a lot that he was talking about that, that loss in, in many ways. So, yeah, I think it is the worst loss he ever experienced.
- [35:57]
Dan Patrick
Does Jerry care too much?
- [36:00]
Mike Harmon
You know, it's interesting. I think that again, I wasn't a fan, so I, I know the 30 years that it's, that it's been, you know, conceptually, but I don't quite feel it as a fan. So I, I, I, I, I Don't quite know what that pain feels like. But the one thing that sometimes I would read that I just personally disagreed with was like, that Jerry doesn't want to win. It's like all this family wants is one more super bowl for Jerry. Like, they really like my experience just being around them is like, yes, this is a tremendously successful franchise. Off field, they do the brand building, they do the people talking about the team incredibly, incredibly well. But at the end of the, at the end of the day, I think that they are starting to get that sense of urgency that. Listen, and I think even Charlotte says this in the documentary, we don't have a lot of those next seasons while there's always next seasons because their dad is getting older and older. And I think more than anything, what this family wants for Jerry is one more super bowl. And I think Jerry certainly wants that too.
- [37:02]
Dan Patrick
Being around him, knowing what's going on with Micah Parsons. Your sense is what?
- [37:08]
Mike Harmon
My sense is that Jerry is like, very comfortable in these situations. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I think for probably Cowboys fans, it's, it's not a good thing. But I don't think that he sweats in these situations, which I think normally motivates most people to be like, all right, I gotta go sign one of my star players to a long term contract and lock him up early. And for some reason, Jerry doesn't quite feel that, that, that, that, you know, he even says it. He's like, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable. I'm comfortable with ambiguity, you know, and so it was a, it was an interesting process I, to, to see him be like that. So I, I don't know why he necessarily does these things the way he does or, or maybe there's more information. I don't know. Maybe, maybe there's things on Micah's team that they're not responding to or doing. I, I don'. But I know that Jerry's very comfortable in these situations, which doesn't make me think that things are going to change necessarily.
- [38:07]
Dan Patrick
What's the next documentary with you and your brother?
- [38:10]
Mike Harmon
Oh, actually, we don't know. Actually, we're going to take a little time off. We had a three part doc that came out in December of this last year that took us a while. And then this was an eight parter. So we do do the Untold series on Netflix. We'll probably jump back in and do a little bit more hands on producing there, which we're really excited about. But right now we don't, we don't have anything in the hopper. We're going to take a little time off and then try and tackle something hopefully as big. But this one was, this one was tremendously fun. I mean, it was the first football documentary we made. I absolutely fell in love with the sport and just following the Cowboys around and really getting to meet these guys. Troy, Emmett, Michael Dion, Barry, Jimmy, they were all just phenomenal, phenomenal interviewees.
- [38:55]
Dan Patrick
Congrats to you and your brother. Great stuff and good luck with the documentary.
- [38:59]
Mike Harmon
Awesome. Thanks so much for having me on. Dan.
- [39:01]
Dan Patrick
That's McLean Way producer, director. He's the co director, executive producer of the new documentary on Netflix, America's Team, the Gambler and His Cowboys. I'm sure it'll do quite well, but you know, there's, it's one thing if you're watching the Cowboys play, you can watch them play because you either love them or you hate them. A documentary. I don't know if you're tuning in if you don't like the Cowboys. Are you tuning in? If you love the Cowboys, obviously you are. But it's different when you're watching if it's Notre Dame football or Duke basketball, there's just certain teams that are polarizing and that's why the Cowboys are still probably the biggest draw in all, all of sports. We'll take a break. More phone calls coming up. We'll update our poll results and we're back after this. In the Dan Patrick Show, Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the n. Catch all of our shows@foxsportsradio.com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live this Labor.
- [40:03]
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- [41:01]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [41:31]
Noah de Barrasso
Hey sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro tell you how to manage your money again? Welcome to Brand Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem. A year from now when you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan starting with your local credit union. Shopping around online looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt and it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment free money advice, listen to Brown ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [42:32]
John Lithgow
Hello, I'm John Lithgow.
- [42:34]
Mike Florio
We choose to go to the moon.
- [42:35]
John Lithgow
I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.
- [42:39]
Caller
That's One Small Step for Man.
- [42:41]
John Lithgow
It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.
- [42:45]
Mike Harmon
You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned. The best I've seen.
- [42:50]
John Lithgow
That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.
- [42:55]
Commercial Announcer
To depression, alcohol abuse and suicide.
- [42:57]
John Lithgow
We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.
- [43:01]
Mike Florio
What do you say?
- [43:01]
John Lithgow
Buzz Another beer and triumph over addiction.
- [43:04]
Noah de Barrasso
Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.
- [43:07]
John Lithgow
Good luck to you and become a true hero.
- [43:10]
Dan Patrick
Buzz and I will proceed into the.
- [43:11]
John Lithgow
Lunar module not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself.
- [43:18]
Mike Harmon
Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.
- [43:21]
John Lithgow
Starring me, John Lithgow.
- [43:23]
Mike Harmon
Can you put it through?
- [43:24]
John Lithgow
Can you Translate on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts?
- [43:32]
Dr. Leitra Tate
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [43:34]
Dan Patrick
Through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of your life.
- [43:40]
Dr. Leitra Tate
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leitra Tate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:34]
Dan Patrick
David in Ohio. Hi, David. What's on your mind today?
- [44:38]
Caller
Hey, good morning, Dan. Yeah, I think Paul is definitely onto something with the uniforms and the Washington Commanders. And what do you expect when you got a franchise that chooses Tutti the Pig as their mascot? I got a thought. Why don't we just change the color, like to baking color or something like that for the uniforms? I don't know anybody that doesn't like bacon, so. Thank you.
- [45:01]
Dan Patrick
All right, David, thank you. Yeah, I was there during the. The peak years for the Hogs when Theisman was quarterbacking and Rigo was there and Art Monk and Gary Clark and. Was it Ricky Sanders? They had great, great teams back then. And he had a Hall of Famer in Joe Gibbs. By the way, DraftKings just put out the odds for the first pick in the 2026 NFL Draft. First pick. Now, I. I will say this. It's obviously taking into consideration what Arch Manning grandfather Archie Manning said, that it's kind of obvious that he's going to go back to Texas for another year, which is what I told you quite a while ago, and that was just intel. That said, this isn't. He knows that he needs a good 30 to 35 starts before he goes into the NFL. So one two for Arch Manning has the fifth best odds to be the number one pick in the draft. Anybody want to take it? Oh, Marvin's got his hand up already. Clubnik out of Clemson. No, he's fourth on the list. Satan. Penn State quarterback Drew Aller. Drew Aller. Yes. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Stinking. Nailed it. Yeah. You did it. Okay. There's one player who's getting a lot of attention. A lot of attention. Well, maybe not that much attention because you're all looking at me like, huh? Okay. His name is Lenoris Sellers. Sellers. Sellers. He's gotten a whole lot of attention. Whole lot of attention. South Carolina, Cade Klubnick, Garrett Nussmeier, and then Arch Manning for the number one overall pick. I also saw this. Now I am kind of infatuated with the fact that Shohei Ohtani's odds to win the MVP are -20,000. And second on the list is Kyle Schwaber at +1300. That's a really, really, really, really big discrepancy. Whereas in the American league, Aaron Judge, minus 140. Cal Raleigh is plus 105. You know, you got Seattle in the playoff race. Raleigh, let's see. Have 48 home runs, 46 home runs, something like that. He'd have to hit 60 home runs, and they make the playoffs, and I think he could win the mvp. But Aaron Judge has really good numbers. Yeah. Paulie.
- [47:52]
Mike Florio
It's interesting that Ohtani is almost getting.
- [47:54]
Mike Harmon
Credit for being a pitcher while barely really pitching. I think he's less than 20 innings this season, maybe 22 innings.
- [48:00]
Mike Florio
So it's.
- [48:01]
Mike Harmon
He's not his value as a pitcher. Hasn't been seen yet, but it's like it's his award until someone steals it from him.
- [48:08]
Dan Patrick
Yeah, it'd be really, really difficult if he. If he's able to do both and just is a good pitcher but still a great hitter or power hitter. It's just, I'm not going to say an unfair advantage because he created the unfair advantage. And you. You have to put up something incredible if you're going to knock him off that perch. Prince in Tampa. Hi, Prince. What's on your mind?
- [48:35]
Caller
Hey, what's going on, Dan? Six foot 160.
- [48:38]
Dan Patrick
Yep.
- [48:40]
Caller
I want to talk about this Shador Sanders situation. I think he's the only one with upside. And, you know, I know that Tom Brady is his mentor. And you Know, when he played his first game at Colorado, he played a TCU team that was, you know, international championship the year before, and he competed all four quarters without a O line and a defense. My assumption is, what do you think he's going to be? You know, assume he plays this year. What do you think his upside would be like next year on the Browns?
- [49:09]
Dan Patrick
Well, it depends on how much playing time he gets. Keep in mind, you had all these analysts who said that he's been set up to fail, which I said, you guys are stupid. Now he gets to play with the first team. Now he gets reps. Now he gets to go into a game where he's got, you know, that starting lineup. With him, it was for him to succeed, not fail. And I've, you know, seen him that first year at Colorado, they should have given them the Purple Heart. You know, forget the Heisman, because he took a beating. Now, some of that is his own making, holding onto the ball. He's not that athletic, but I see a great upside to him. Composure is so important. You know, there's certain quarterbacks that they just have it. And I just think he has it now. The reason why he slipped, let's be honest, he didn't interview well. I don't think it was football per se. I think it was his attitude, and I think that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And information is shared. It doesn't take long for a bad interview with the Giants. Then all of a sudden, some other team and then some other team and then some other team, they know the same thing. And while we can say Tom Brady is his mentor, I'd put an asterisk by that because Tom Brady is a powerful man with the Raiders, and they could have drafted him and they didn't. And that I thought was very telling because you could have gotten him as a backup quarterback if you wanted to for Geno Smith for two years. But I do think he's going to play. I think he'll start games this year, and I hope he plays well. I think, you know, he's earned that opportunity. Jesse in South Dakota. Hi, Jess. What's on your mind?
- [50:51]
Caller
Hey, Dan. Third time, long time, maybe last time. Suck it, Fritzi. Number one. First off, T shirt idea from your boating adventures over the weekend. How about just a Captain Oblivious shirt?
- [51:07]
Dan Patrick
Okay.
- [51:07]
Caller
Kind of playing off of Fritzi's Captain Obvious with your hat and maybe you holding a fuel can or something.
- [51:14]
Dan Patrick
Okay, thank you. Anything else, Jess?
- [51:17]
Caller
All right. I've been a Washington football fan my whole life, but I've hated these colors since I was a kid. I've refused to wear them since I was, like, a teenager. So I've got a whole big branding thing. And then I also refuse to call them the Commanders. I was in D.C. back in January when we destroyed the Lions in the playoffs. They were celebrating all over the streets. It was such a cool experience, but I didn't hear anybody chanting or talking about the Commanders. And I'm just curious to hear, like, what James and Virginia's take would be on that. But I don't love the colors and do not like the name Commanders.
- [51:52]
Dan Patrick
All right, thank you, Jesse. It's Jesse in South Dakota. Sometimes the old uniform and you were successful with that or given your age. That's why if you're over the age of 50, you probably don't like these uniforms because you think back to the Hogs in Rego and all those great memories. I get it. Final hour in this Tuesday. Coming up. We love talking to Chase Daniel. He makes us smarter. He'll, I'm sure, have already broken down the game film from some of these preseason games with these quarterbacks. Back after this.
- [52:26]
Noah de Barrasso
This is an iHeart podcast.