Hour 3 – The Hard Part Is Over, Reggie Miller

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show — Hour 3: "The Hard Part Is Over, Reggie Miller"

Date: May 26, 2026
Podcast: The Dan Patrick Show (iHeartPodcasts/Dan Patrick Podcast Network)
Guests: Reggie Miller, frequent contributions from Marv Albert ("Marvin"), "Paul", callers

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the NBA Playoffs, specifically the New York Knicks reaching the NBA Finals, the ongoing evolution of team building in the league (superstars vs. depth), and a broad conversation about player legacies, coaching strategies, and the future for teams like the Knicks, Cavaliers, Spurs, and Thunder. Dan and the crew share insights, take listener calls, and feature a detailed, humorous, and passionate basketball conversation with Reggie Miller ahead of his broadcast assignment.

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Main Themes

• The Knicks’ resurgence and playoff run: Is it premature celebration, or have they already accomplished something historic?
• Evolution in NBA roster construction: From “super teams” to deeper lineups with fewer mega-stars.
• Strategies for star young players: Discussing Victor Wembanyama's development, the shift away from traditional post play, and how teams like OKC and the Spurs are deploying their talent.
• Player and coach legacies, including nostalgic looks at the ‘70s and ‘90s NBA.
• Candid banter about officiating, “flopping,” and the optics of the modern game.
• The potential for LeBron’s return to Cleveland and how franchises face turning points after playoff exits.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Knicks’ Finals Berth: Celebration or Overreaction?

• Nostalgia and Perspective: Dan reflects on previous Knicks success and sympathizes with lifelong fans’ excitement.

  “I go back to when I was growing up watching the Knicks in 1970 beat my Jerry West-led Lakers… It’s been a long time.” (03:28)

• Historic Droughts:

  “If they're celebrating like they won the championship, they've never seen this before. Well, so I'm all right with it.” – Marvin (04:05)

• Reminding of ‘unfinished business’:

  “We haven't won anything yet.” – Dan referencing Kobe Bryant (05:00)

• Success vs. Expectation:

  “Would you say it’s objectively been a success for the Knicks as well? Yes, but I'm not surprised that they're here.” (05:34)

2. Changing NBA Team Building: From Super Teams to Deep Rosters

• Depth Over Stars:

  “I think having two legitimate All Stars…is really important. I don't think it’s three guys as it used to be. Now it’s two.” – Dan (11:39) “Depth is important no matter how top heavy you are…Even the Big Three Heat…you need depth.” – Marvin (11:11)

• Why the Super Team Trend Faded:

  “It feels like the team that cooled off the super team trend was the Suns a couple years ago… Declaring it a super team and nothing happened.” – Dan (12:35) “We also saw that with the Nets, with Durant, Harden and Kyrie…abject disaster.” (13:03)

3. Coaching, Load Management, and Player Development

• Coaching Evolution:

  “Mitch Johnson and Mike Brown have done masterclass in coaching this year. They’ve done to me what load management should be.” – Jay, caller (13:52)

• Popovich’s Influence:

  “Greg Popovich was so far ahead…wanted you ready for the playoffs…He didn’t care if you had the best record.” – Dan (14:49)

• Development of Bigs—Wembanyama:

  “He can shoot the three, mid-range… point center…But I would like to see him have a go to move inside.” – Dan (16:29)

4. Shifts In Play Style: Post Play and the Modern Big

• Wemby’s Growth:

  “If he gets to a spot and he’s comfortable there, whether it’s a jumper off the glass like Duncan, maybe it’s a baby skyhook…” (16:29)

• Modern Offense:

  “Sometimes I see him [Wemby] over in the corner…Well, he’s opening up the lane for his talented guards…” – Mark, caller (15:26)

5. Officiating, Flopping, and NBA Optics

• SGA Flopping Debate:

  “People have way too much time…It’s SGA’s job to play basketball, not officiate the game. Be more upset at the officials.” – Reggie Miller (31:18, paraphrased)

• Actual Foul Numbers:

  “He [SGA] is below his average…only averaging eight and a half free throws in four games…People think he’s going to the free throw line 15 times a game. He’s only going eight times.” – Reggie Miller (31:19)

• Comparing to Historic Stars:

  “We weren’t saying this about MJ. MJ was going to the free throw line...MJ never complained...People need to stop.” – Reggie (31:18)

6. Debate: How to Defend Wemby & Modern Offensive Schemes

• OKC Gameplan:

  “You’ve got to continue to be physical…If you can get Wemby out of the paint…even a missed shot by him in the paint…see those tip ins?” – Reggie Miller (33:40)

• Wemby’s Offseason Work:

  “I would love for him to get a back to the basket game, then face you 8–10 feet out—how great Timmy was using the bank shot…that’s the next evolution.” – Reggie (35:13)

7. Cavaliers’ Offseason and LeBron Rumors

• Coaching and Roster Changes:

  “They've got to change some things up…Some of the decisions were inexcusable.” – Reggie (26:04) “I would like to see LeBron go home. That should be on the table.” – Reggie (26:42)

• Trade Critique:

  “They traded away Darius Garland, who's ten years younger than James Harden. You got Harden for this moment…and his track record is terrible.” – Dan (27:18)

8. Caller Highlights and Notable Moments

• Conceding Games:

  “The word you’re looking for: ‘conceding.’ It’s a little more noble…” – Michael, caller (13:18)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Knicks’ joy:

  “If they're celebrating like they won the championship, they've never seen this before. Well, so I'm all right with it.” – Marvin (04:05)

• Perspective on titles:

  “We haven’t won anything yet.” – Dan, quoting Kobe Bryant (05:00)

• Reggie Miller defends SGA against flopping criticisms:

  “He [SGA] is not blowing the whistle for himself…He gets up and runs back…He’s built up goodwill towards the officials. People need to stop this.” (31:19)

• On officiating and fan perception:

  “Every great player adds something each year…What does Wemby add in the offseason?” – Dan (34:45)

• On Michael Jordan’s lasting grudges:

  “Some of those fires burn deep. They do.” – Reggie on Jordan/Isaiah feud (38:34)

• Humorous self-doubt:

  “I guarantee [Jordan] probably doesn’t know my name right now.” – Reggie (40:37)

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Significant Timestamps

• Knicks’ playoff celebration and history: (03:00–05:34)
• Shift to roster depth over “super teams”: (11:00–13:03)
• Coaching evolution and load management: (13:52–15:26)
• Wembanyama and modern bigs: (15:26–18:06)
• Flopping, officiating, and SGA debate: (29:12–32:39)
• How OKC should defend Wemby: (33:40)
• Reggie and Dan’s MJ/Isaiah stories and banter: (36:16–40:57)
• Caller best/worst of the week, sports trivia: (45:21–49:00)
• Odds for possible NBA Finals matchups: (48:13)

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Final Takeaways

• The Knicks’ return to the NBA Finals is seen as both celebratory and a caution for New York fans not to get ahead of themselves.
• The era of “super teams” is fading, replaced by greater focus on roster depth, smarter coaching, and versatile two-star builds.
• Physicality, discipline, and defensive adjustments remain paramount, especially against unique talents like Wembanyama and crafty scorers like SGA.
• Playoff failures will likely change the Cavaliers’ roster and could even revive LeBron-to-Cleveland rumors.
• Reggie Miller offers heartfelt, player-level insights, especially defending contemporaries against social media criticism and reflecting on the evolution of NBA culture.
• The episode balances sharp analysis and playful nostalgia, making it both insightful and entertaining for basketball fans.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

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[Paul]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Marv Albert]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Paul]

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[Dan Patrick]

Visit your nearby Lowe's. You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio final hour on this Tuesday. Since we weren't here yesterday taking phone calls best and worst of the Weekend operator Tyler sitting by 877-3DP show stat of the day is always brought to you by Panini America. The official trading cards of the DP show playoffs continue tonight's first Thunder on NBC and Peacock Reggie Miller will be joining us. We say good morning to those watching on Peacock Today, New poll question coming up. This is sort of like when the super bowl would have that week in between the super bowl. So you would have the conference championships and then there'd be a week, and then there would be super bowl week. This is the super bowl week prior to super bowl week for the New York Knicks and their fans. I, it's, it's interesting the number of people who say, are the Knicks likable? And I like this, this team. Nick fans, that might be something different. I'm already hearing from them even in the building here, giving me grief. And he said, you know, premature celebration here. Let's just. You got to the NBA Finals, that's great. But talk to me in three weeks from now. Let's see how morale is getting called out. Because I didn't think Jalen Brunson was a number one scorer going to the Knicks. Knick fans wanted. They. They didn't. They wanted Donovan Mitchell. Anyone? Jalen Brunson. That was a consolation prize. Oh, I like the team. I think there's something magical here. I think they're doing something really incredible. And it's fun to watch this. I go back to when I was growing up watching The Knicks in 1970 beat my Jerry west led Lakers or 1973 when they won the title as well. It's been a long time. Long time. Guess. Marv.

[Marv Albert]

I'm happy for these Knicks fans. Not the crazy ones, but just those ones that have been not riding and dying, just really dying with the Knicks for the past 25 years. If you're Anthony, one of our backroom guys, he's a Knicks fan. I think he's like 23. He's never seen anything like this before. Getting to the finals is a big deal. They had a watch party at Radio City Music hall and the place was going nuts. It's people that have been there day in and day out, and I am super happy for them. If they say they're celebrating like they won the championship, they've never seen this before. Well, so I'm all right with it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes. Dylan, I know Anthony's been pretty sassy to me today. Yeah. Brunson flopping.

[Paul]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. They're taking a victory lap here, that's for sure. You. You got to the finals. You got to the finals. Yes.

[Marv Albert]

Paul, Remember what Kobe said?

[Dan Patrick]

We haven't won anything yet. Yeah. All right. Well, yes, Marvin.

[Marv Albert]

Kobe was like four titles in when he said that. He knows what it takes. They don't know anything. They don't know any better.

[Dan Patrick]

It's Still a great story.

[Marv Albert]

Oh, yeah. You should be congratulated and you should be celebrating this victory. You've won the Eastern Conference.

[Dan Patrick]

You should have been in the finals last year.

[Marv Albert]

That's what makes this even sweeter for those Knicks fans.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Still, I know we kind of talked about this already, how this season has, like, objectively been a success for the spurs at this point.

[Paul]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Would you say it's objectively been a success for the Knicks as well? Yes, but I'm not surprised that they're here. I'm surprised the spurs are this good, this soon. There's a big difference in that. I thought the spurs next year were going to be a team to, you know, reckon with. The Knicks were here last year. They just forgot to guard Tyrese Halliburton. They let the Pacers beat them and everybody thought, oh, they're going to the NBA finals. Now they're here. You're halfway up the mountain now. Yes, Marvin.

[Marv Albert]

The Thunder feel like the only team that's left because there's only three of them. That their expectations were championship or bust. I think the Knicks were finals or bust. But the Thunder. How many other teams in the NBA going into this regular season was championship or bus outside of the Thunder?

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, because the Celtics already had the injury and you know, you're the Knicks. You got by the. The Celtics, you know, Tatum got hurt. You got the Pacers in front of you. I think most of us thought they were a better team, but Indiana kind of did what the Knicks are doing this year. They kind of came together at the right time and had some magic there. By the way, the Knicks completing the four game sweep in the Eastern Conference finals. I'm curious how many of those teams after a conference finals sweep go on to win the title. 20 previous teams swept their conference finals. 11 went on to win the NBA title. Stat of the day, stat of the day, stat of the day. Stat of the day. Here comes that stat of the day. So a little more than 50% go on to win the NBA title. Also, hustle points, second chance points. I'm big on that because I think a lot of times that can be the difference. It's not glamour points. It's basically, hey, are you going to hustle? Going after a rebound, keeping something alive. The Knicks outscored the Cavaliers in second chance points 32 to 5. That is the largest second chance points differential in a playoff game since 1997. 20 offensive rebounds. I think the Cavs had four or five fast break points. 33 points for the Knicks, nine for the Cavs. Game three, 17 fast break points. Cavs had four. Game 213 for the Knicks, eight for the Cavs. Game one, 13 for the Knicks, 12 for the Cavs. Maybe Cleveland was gassed. Maybe those seven game series took a toll on them, but they shouldn't have been swept. And you got to hold on to win game one. I'm not saying you're winning the series, but you got it. Like that was kind of emblematic of you can do it, but can you keep it up? And you let that dissipate right in front of you and you never recovered. Yes.

[Marv Albert]

Mark, after last night's win, is Jalen Brunson's jersey already in the rafters at the Garden?

[Dan Patrick]

Yes. Now he's going for something bigger as the all time, maybe greatest Knicks player ever. Now, I would lean towards Willis Reed or Walt Frazier because Walt Frazier was unbelievable in the NBA Finals in 1970. 36 points, what, 19 assists and they ended up beating the Lakers. That, that's what Jalen Brunson might be competing against somebody who won a championship there. And there's going to be guys who will have more points than him all time. Perhaps. Patrick Ewing was great. Willis Reed was great. I mean, they've, they've had great players. Alan Houston was a great player. I mean, they, they've had those players. They just haven't had the postseason success to go along with it. Part of that is, you know, a lot of times you're going through Michael Jordan or the San Antonio spurs in 1999. Fresh in Milwaukee is back. Hi, Fresh.

[Caller]

What's up, DP and Dan X. How was the weekend? Great.

[Dan Patrick]

Great.

[Caller]

Got a quick question. We've seen these last four teams, well, three now, but they all have one superstar and a good roster. So I'm wondering, are we seeing a shift toward deep rosters with one superstar, or is this just a little blip before the big market teams spit?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, I want depth. I think you're seeing depth. You got teams that got tired, get tired and you know, OKC has depth now they got injuries, so they are going to need everybody off that bench. I don't know if Dylan Harper is going to be a star. Darren Fox was a star with Sacramento, but you got Wemby, okc. I think Chad Holmgren's a good player. I don't think he's a great player. Jalen Williams has been great. He just not healthy enough. The Knicks, Carl Anthony Towns is a all star. Jalen Brunson an all star. So I would say they have two stars. Yeah.

[Marv Albert]

Marv, depth is important no matter how top heavy you are. Even like the big three heat when they went to the finals in 2011. Look at that roster. Not the world's greatest roster, but then when they won those championships, Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Rashad Lewis, guys like that. You, Donis, Haslam. I just named five guys that contributed. Even the big three Celtics with James Posey and Eddie House and the White Mamba himself. Like, you need depth no matter how top heavy your roster is.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. And I think having two legitimate All Stars or the All Star caliber is really important. I don't think it's three guys as it used to be. Now it's two. And it's two because you can't afford three if you have two. And then you round out your roster. And I always go back, you know, your rotation might be seven players total, maybe eight. You. You didn't go down the. The bench, but now you have that opportunity with some of these teams that you can bring somebody off the bench who can be a difference maker. Look at OKC in the playoffs. I mean, they got guys coming off the bench. You're like, wait a minute, where did they got that guy from the Sixers? Who's that? AJ Guy? I mean, that's a credit to that organization, but that's also. We're going to need you at some point. And those guys have been, you know, front and center. Yeah. Paul. It feels like the team that cooled

[Marv Albert]

off the super team trend was the

[Dan Patrick]

Suns a couple years ago. Durant, Devin Booker, Bradley Beal spending a lot. New owner, make a splash, declaring it a super team and nothing happened. And it's. I think that cooled off the trend a bit. Well, sorry.

[Paul]

They're catching strays.

[Dan Patrick]

Don't know if I'd put Bradley Beal in there. I think it was average like 29 at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, somebody had to score for the Wizards. Yes, Dylan.

[Paul]

I mean, we.

[Dan Patrick]

We also saw that too, with the Nets, with Durant, Katie and our Durant, Harden and Kyrie. Like, that was the super team of all super teams. And that was an abject disaster. Michael in Fort Wayne. Hi, Mike. What do you have for me today?

[Caller]

Hey, good morning, Dan. Thanks for taking my call. Appreciate it. I've got two things for you as far as the word that you're looking for. It reminds me of a chess match when somebody knows they're not going to win and there's no way they can. They don't play out the entire thing. They shake Their opponent's hand and they concede. It's a little bit more noble of a word.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, so conceding while still playing. Okay, so the Cavaliers conceded last night. Jay in Delaware. Hi, Jay. What do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey, Dan. Hope you fellas had a great Memorial Day weekend. Two points. I think Mitch Johnson and Mike Brown both have done masterclass in coaching this year. They've done to me what load management should be. You look at Wendy. He got above the 65 game threshold. Still, his. His fans got to see him most nights and. But he only averaged, I think, about 20 to 22 minutes per game through the regular season. So in the playoffs, he's been able to play longer. I think he's averaged around 28 to 30 minutes a game in the playoffs. So he's played a lot more. A lot more minutes in the playoffs, which has helped the team immensely. And Mike Brown saw what Tip did last year and was like, I know what not to do. Managed the minutes of the stars a lot more. So they. And they've also picked up their pace of play. Last year, it was all about Knicks trying to slow teams down, and they're outpacing teams this year in the playoffs.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, that's good stuff, Jay. Yeah. Thibodeau would famously grind his players down. And you get to the playoffs, you're not refreshed. This was something that Greg Popovich was so far ahead of everybody else. He wanted you ready for the playoffs. He wanted to win championships. He didn't care if you had the best record in the Western Conference. He did not care. I remember him saying that to me, you know, because I thought, how important is the number one seed? He said, I want my guys healthy and ready to go. Rest, rest, rest. Mark in Ohio. Hi, Mark.

[Caller]

Hey, Dan. Just a quick question here. I go all the way back to you. I'm 69, a year younger, and I remember when post players played the post, and I'm watching the spurs, and I've been a Spurs fan since Robinson and the whole dynasty thing. I'm watching Wimbiyama play, and I don't know how they're training him to be a post player at all. I think that's an addition to his game. That has to come when you're 7 foot 4. I mean, I can remember McHale with the up and under move, Kareem with the skyhook. Everybody had a way to play the post. So if we've got Robinson and Duncan, they're helping him. Why isn't he playing any post play yet. I mean, maybe that's something that's going to come. Obviously he's a unicorn, but it seems like the best way they get the ball to him in the post is to feed it to him at the foul line and let him go down the lane on his own. But when you put the ball down on the ground like that at 7 4, it's apt to be stolen. I see him over in the corner sometimes, like, what are you doing there? Well, he's opening up the lane for his talented guards to try to drive and get to the hoop. Just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

[Dan Patrick]

I think you answered your own question there, Mark, because is that something he's going to add to his game? Probably so, but he's got to bulk up a little bit more. And if you're going to put him on the blocks, obviously they know what he can and can't do and what he needs to work on. He can shoot the three mid range jumper, put the ball on the floor. He can be a point center if you need him to be. But I would like to see him have a move, a go to move inside. A lot of what he does is sort of, he's just very active, you know, keeping the ball alive, tipping him to himself and put backs dunks. But getting that go to shot when you have to have a shot, that's what I want to see. Because, you know, at 74 there, very few guys are going to look him in the eye. Your, your defense is going to be underneath and underneath is really frustrating for a big guy. Do not put that ball down because they're going to go for it and they want to kind of muddle, you know, the area that you're in. They want to mess up your footwork. But I think if he gets to a spot and he's comfortable there, whether it's a jumper off the glass like Duncan, maybe it's a baby skyhook. You know, Akeem Elijah one. I mean, he's working with these players, so it's not like he goes, no, this is all I want to do is shoot threes. He's actually working with the ball handling specialist. He's working with big men on his footwork. Yes.

[Marv Albert]

Marv, if the spurs advance to the finals, how would you defend Wemby if you're the Knicks?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, I wouldn't have Carl Anthony Towns on him, but it's going to be a group effort. It's just if he goes then, you know, you got to decide who's going to beat you a lot of times. And I for the life of me never understood Michael Jordan hitting a game winning shot, Larry Bird hitting a game winning shot, Kobe hitting. I would never, ever like. I don't care what it takes. Somebody else is going to beat me. If Robert Ori does, if throw out, you know, somebody, John Paxton. Okay, if you do it, good for you. I can't let that guy beat me. And I would not let Wemby beat me. I would not let SGA beat me. They may because they're still great. All right, running late. Reggie Miller will join us next here. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio Apple. This is Rob Parker and I'm here with an important public service announcement. Whatever you do, do not listen to

[Paul]

the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. Fox Sports Radio asked me to do

[Dan Patrick]

a promo, but I'm here to do

[Paul]

a no Mo as in don't listen to this show. No mo the host of two fools from Philly who have the dumbest takes ever in all of sports talk. And you know, if I'm saying that, they must really be bad.

[Dan Patrick]

I have no idea why Fox Sports

[Paul]

Radio picked this up, but I know

[Dan Patrick]

where to put it down in the trash can.

[Paul]

So please don't listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. No way, no how.

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[Dan Patrick]

the end of the show. I said the weekend's ready to start. When you hear this, it's Miller time. I raise my glass to Miller Light. They've been doing it for 50 years now. They are iconic. They are the original. They're legendary. That's why I reach for a Miller Light. And you should, too. Enjoy Miller time by enjoying Miller Light in a place where you're free to enjoy yourself. You can have a walk with a family member. Now's the time. Because the best beers are the ones you don't expect. A taste you can depend on. Great beer trusted by beer lovers for 50 years. Simple ingredients, molted barley, that rich balanced toffee note flavors and that iconic golden Color looks gorgeous and it tastes great. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. You go to millerlight.com Patrick you'll find delivery options near you. Or pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time all the time. Anytime. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. It's Miller time.

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[Dan Patrick]

you know, the more I think about Kenny Atkinson talking about the analytics, he could have been talking about Annie Lennox of the Eurythmics. Remember the lead singer? Maybe he was saying, you know, according to Annie Lennox instead of analytics. Maybe not. Reggie Miller will be on the call tonight. He's an okc. It's the Spurs. Thunder. Thunder favored by five and a half. He'll be there with Mike Tirico, Jamal Crawford tip off 8:30 Eastern on NBC. And Peacock.

[Paul]

That was pretty good, Theodore. Well played. That was very good.

[Dan Patrick]

How about my Knicks?

[Paul]

How about our next.

[Dan Patrick]

No, I remember.

[Paul]

I remember three weeks ago when we were doing our weekly pop and you asked me legitimately how many teams could win this if you remember that question, And I threw the Knicks in being one of those. And I said if, if Karl Anthony Towns obviously raises his game, which obviously he has. And the Knicks changed things around in that Atlanta series. After that third game when they were down 2:1, Cat became more of a facilitator and you saw his assist go up. He stayed out of foul trouble the rest of the way and he has started to make shots. And this team, look, they are obviously in the finals, but they very well could. They can win this whole thing the way they're playing at both ends of the floor.

[Dan Patrick]

Theodore, who do the Knicks want to face?

[Paul]

It doesn't matter. It really. When you get to the finals, I've only been there once and you've got a 50% chance of winning. Both teams that they would be facing coming out of the west, the champs in the Thunder and the upstart young San Antonio spurs, both would give them a run for the money. But what the Knicks and the confidence they are playing with and the rest they will have coming into this, they don't. The finals don't begin until a week from this Wednesday, so they're going to have a lot of time off to prepare Hill bodies. OG was kind of nursing that hamstring. I think he'll be at full strength even though he's played the last couple ball games. Rest will help because these two teams that I'm covering, they're beating each other up. There's injuries, there's players going down and yes, you'll have time to recover whatever team makes it to the Finals. But the longer that finals goes these days that the. The Knicks are banking and rest, they will help them.

[Dan Patrick]

But having this amount of time off after you've played so well. I know we talk about rest versus rust. Where do you stand on that?

[Paul]

They. The Knicks had this after that Philadelphia series. They had a lot of rest coming into Cleveland and they swap them. Now again, game one was. Was different. They were down 22 with seven minutes to go and found a way to win that game. And that just zapped Cleveland up. You. You can't do that in. You can't. That can't happen. It can't. It happened, but it can't happen. And it. It's embarrassing. And that set the tone for the series. And the Cavs were never the same after game one.

[Dan Patrick]

What's the Cavaliers future?

[Paul]

They've got to change some things up. They do. I didn't like body language. I know Harden is looking for an extension or a redo of his con. They're gonna have to look hard at that. I think they're gonna look hard at Kenny Atkinson. Some of the decisions he made in Game one unexcusable. They're Inexcusable. You can't. That can't happen. And I'm sure they'll look harder, long and hard at this. This is what I would like to. I would like to see LeBron go home. I think that should be something that's on the table.

[Dan Patrick]

Can the Cavaliers contact LeBron now?

[Paul]

I don't know. I don't know what the free agent rules are. Yeah, the season's.

[Dan Patrick]

Overall.

[Paul]

I don't know why. Why they couldn't. I'm sure there was. There'll be preliminary conversations between Rich Paul and Cavs management, but that would be. That would be kind of cool that I think that will be an option for LeBron.

[Dan Patrick]

I think there's too much money that he'd leave behind, probably.

[Paul]

But if I'm the Cavs, I ask him, what do you want? I would give LeBron whatever he wants.

[Dan Patrick]

But it goes back to. They traded away Darius Garland, who's 10 years younger than James Harden. You got Harden, I'm guessing, for this moment, this time, and he has. His track record is terrible.

[Paul]

It was disappointing. It was disappointing to see James again. We all should have known better because of the track record you just alluded to, but it was disappointing to see because you're right, they brought him in for the playoffs to compete. Now, again, he did help get them to the conference finals, but he. He wasn't playing great. He didn't play great in Toronto, he didn't play great in that Detroit series, so. But he did help the team. It is a team game, and he did help the team get to the conference finals. But those four games were embarrassing.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, because I don't like to use the word quit when it comes to professionals. I give. If a fellow player or an opposition or coach says we quit, fine. I'm in no position to say you quit, but I don't know what word or words are applicable for me to say. Not somebody who played the game.

[Paul]

Look, I will say this. Did Detroit quit in game seven versus Cleveland at home? You can make a case that way. Did Cleveland quit in this series? You're right.

[Caller]

We.

[Paul]

You and I, we're not in the huddles. We're not in practices. We're not on plane rides, bus. We don't know. You and I are talking about the optics of what we were seeing, and it looked like a team that didn't want to be there. And that's why you're going to have to tinker in the off season with this roster.

[Dan Patrick]

Talking to Reggie Miller. He'll be on the call, Mike Tirico, Jamal Crawford. That will be tonight, 8:30 Eastern on NBC. And Peacock, we've talked about it, but we're watching the games. A lot of people are watching SGA now because people weren't watching probably during the regular season. You see him because you have to watch him because these are big games. Now everybody's got an opinion on SGA and flopping. I don't blame sga. The officials have to call this. And I don't know if the officials are going to change what they're, what they're seeing or what they're willing to call, but it is a problem when you watch it. I think the aesthetics for the casual basketball fans like this is not what we want to see. Like star players in soccer falling down all the time. We don't want to see it. You who flopped as well as anybody, you sold fouls. How's that? You sold.

[Paul]

There you go. There you go.

[Dan Patrick]

You sold.

[Paul]

Look, okay, I, I understand we, we've got to have this conversation. But also too, people have way too much time because it's SGA's job to play the game of basketball. He's not playing the game and officiating the game. So I, I be more upset at the officials and how they have called it. He's not blowing the whistle for himself. But if you look at this series, he took nine free throws in game one, only six free throws in game two. He took 12 in game three. But remember it was all in the third quarter when it was a 45 minute quarter and that's when he was doing the pump fake and listening to head coach Mitch Johnson from the Spurs. Defensively we got out of character. That's when they were jumping and they would come down on him. That's not on him. That was on the spurs being out of position. And in game four, he only shot seven free throws because they were better disciplined.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paul]

So he is below his average, his season average. He's only averaging eight and a half free throws in the four games in this series. So people think he's going to the free throw line 15 times a game. He's only going eight times, people. So these podcasters, you all just need to stop. He's playing the game of basketball. It's the same. He's had three technical fouls this season. Three, nine in his career. It's not like Luka getting up every play, complaining to the officials, staying back, hanging back. How about this? Every time he falls to the floor on a non call, who has the Advantage now the opposing team is five on four. So make them pay. They're not making a pay because he doesn't get up complaining. He gets up and runs back. I think he's built up goodwill towards the officials. People need to stop this. I'm serious. For as much hate as a two time MVP gets, this guy has a polished game. A Paul, we weren't saying this about mj. MJ was going to the free throw line. MJ never complained. He had more technical fouls than sga. People need to stop. I'm not trying to defend him, but he's not calling these fouls on himself.

[Dan Patrick]

And I think you bring up a great point that if you're going to play defense on sga, then don't go for his pump fakes, don't go for

[Paul]

the pump fakes and don't go for the reach. Be aggressive. But in some of these calls, the spurs were being way over aggressive. Trying to reach in you, reach in you, reach you. I teach that's the same. So he made them pay when they were disciplined in game four. Castle was. Castle, Visell and Dylan Harper were very disciplined defensively in game four. Only six free throw attempts and they cost four turnovers. You cannot. This is. This goes back to when James Harden was winning mvp. Remember guys used to reach and he would hold the ball out. Same with Chris Paul. You can't put your hand in the cookie jar. Play defense with your feet and your chest and your hands back, which they have, and you see the results.

[Dan Patrick]

What's OKC do to Wemby tonight?

[Paul]

I think you got to continue to be physical when they've been physical with him and forced him out the paint. Those are the two wins. You look at games one and games four. Wimby dominated the paint and to me this will be Fox and Castle's job. If they can play downhill, they can get into the paint, collapse the defense, get those lobs. In game three, the game that the Thunder won on the road, Wimby had one lob. He had like five lobs in game four because the guards were aggressive getting into the paint, collapsing the defense. But you've got to get Wimby, which is easier said than done, out of the paint at that 7 foot 4 frame. And if he's going to make jump shots, so be it. He can make them. But I would much rather live with him being out there because even a missed shot by him in the paint. See those tip ins?

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paul]

He's throwing the ball to himself. No one else can Go up there and get it. So anytime he catches it in into the paint, he is hurting the thunder.

[Dan Patrick]

Every great player adds something each year. You try to add something new to the arsenal. And I'm wondering if Wemby is working with Jamal Crawford on ball handling. Maybe Akeem Elijah on with footwork here. I'm curious. You know, Jordan famously went down on the blocks later in his career. You're adding to your game. What does Wemby add in the off season? If you said you have to work on this,

[Paul]

I think, and we see a little bit of this in his pregame routine with the trainers being very physical and holding him and hitting him, I think he'll get stronger. But there's a guy that I believe played with the spurs who's arguably the greatest power forward of all time and Tim Duncan, I would love for him to get a back to the basket game and then face you 8 to 10ft out. You know how great Timmy was using the bank shot and facing you up in those mid range. I think that's the next evolution. We've seen a couple of these moves and I think we've called them out in the game. He has a little dirt Nowitzki when he turns around and puts that, you know, right leg up. So we know he's capable of playing that way. But this guy is, you know, Jamal worked with him and he talked about, you know, how much of a genius and how quickly he picks things up. I could see him working with Timmy this summer to work on a face up game in that mid range level area.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, that little turnaround bank shot that Duncan had, Isaiah was on last week. And I said, give me the retired player over 50 who can still shoot. And he said, you so appreciate that, coach. Yeah, just. I don't. I don't know if he was friendly towards you when you played against the Pistons. Probably not. He did talk about. There's a video where he punches Rick Mahorn in the side of the face and Horn just turns and looks at

[Paul]

him like he was like, like, little man, what are you doing? He really could have snapped Isaiah in half, right. But it's almost like he was holding him like this and. And Isaiah's like scratching, hitting them like this. And he's just holding them like this, like, dude. Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Isaiah said, I thank Rick Mahorn. I thank him every time I see him. I thank him because he could have killed me. I did ask him give me his best starting five. And the only position he paused at was shooting guard.

[Paul]

Of course

[Dan Patrick]

he did Pick Jordan. But he goes, you know, I said. You pause.

[Paul]

He probably said between him and Kobe.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, yeah. He talked about Kobe in there as his two guard.

[Paul]

Who did he have? His point guard? Did he have Magic?

[Dan Patrick]

No.

[Paul]

He had Curry?

[Dan Patrick]

No, he had him.

[Paul]

Okay. That's fair enough. All right.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paul]

I thought maybe he would have excluded himself.

[Dan Patrick]

Small forward.

[Paul]

Did he go with Larry or did he go with LeBron? He probably with LeBron.

[Dan Patrick]

No, Larry.

[Paul]

Okay. Power forward. I would say Isaiah probably went with James Worthy.

[Dan Patrick]

Tim Duncan.

[Paul]

Okay. Tim Duncan, cool with that. And I bet you sinner, he went with Kareem.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, yeah. Kareem. Yeah.

[Paul]

Okay. That's a good.

[Dan Patrick]

He was looking at LeBron or Kobe for the two guard with Michael, and that's why he paused. No love lost there still, right?

[Paul]

No, no. Some of those fires burn deep. They do.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. But if Barkley and Jordan can get reunited, how they. They. They're going to play golf, Charles.

[Paul]

Well, I want to see it. I got to see it first. Charles.

[Dan Patrick]

Charles says he's. You know, him and Mike are probably.

[Paul]

I got to see you play.

[Dan Patrick]

Go. Isaiah and Mike. Maybe there's something they could do together.

[Paul]

If there's any one interview I would love, love to navigate, it would be that interview. I would. I would die. Like when I did Isaiah and Larry a couple years ago, it was like heaven for me because there was some tension there, but there was also a lot of respect between the two.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, but why don't you try to navigate this?

[Marv Albert]

I would.

[Paul]

Don't you think I've. I've tried.

[Dan Patrick]

I said, Michael's not going to do anything.

[Paul]

Michael's not. Michael will not do it.

[Dan Patrick]

Does Michael dislike you more than he does Isaiah?

[Paul]

I don't know.

[Dan Patrick]

I don't know.

[Paul]

I don't know these things. I don't know. I. I hope MJ knows that I have. I respect. He knows that. He knows. But some fathers burn te. Come on.

[Dan Patrick]

But if you want to be hated by Jordan, don't you want to be the number one guy hated by Jordan?

[Paul]

Do you think I'm the. You think I would be the number one guy hated by him?

[Dan Patrick]

No, no, no.

[Paul]

I think he has other guys.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paul]

Dude hit. That's six times. I have zero. I think he probably hates Isaiah more than he would probably hate me. But Isaiah has ring, too. I have. I have nothing. I have nothing. He look. He looks at me like my horn was looking at. He's looking at me like, yeah, sit down. Go in the corner.

[Dan Patrick]

But you got in a fight with him.

[Paul]

So what? That means nothing to him. Nothing.

[Dan Patrick]

Everything meant something to him.

[Paul]

Nothing. He, I, I guarantee he probably doesn't know my name right now.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, will you stop?

[Paul]

He probably doesn't know my name by now.

[Dan Patrick]

Have fun tonight.

[Paul]

Let's go. Game five. Two, two, swing game. Are you kidding me?

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, by the way, push off anniversary today.

[Paul]

What?

[Dan Patrick]

Push off what?

[Paul]

What push off?

[Dan Patrick]

When you assaulted Greg Anthony or Michael Jordan. I should say that was. That's the push off anniversary of you and Mike.

[Paul]

Did he push off on Brian Russell?

[Dan Patrick]

Yes, he did. Yeah.

[Paul]

Okay, then maybe it is push off every month because if you said no.

[Dan Patrick]

Statute of limitations.

[Paul]

That's right.

[Dan Patrick]

No, Mike pushed off. Absolutely.

[Paul]

Okay, that's the point with sga. That's what people get upset about. Because SGA has that move where he creates space. Right. And people say he's pushing off. No, he's creating space.

[Dan Patrick]

Have fun tonight.

[Paul]

Appreciate you, Theodore. Love you, Dan.

[Dan Patrick]

Edgy. Aloysius Miller Jr. III. He'll be on the call tonight. Mike Tirico, Jamal Crawford. That'll be game five and okc. How about we take a break? Last call for phone calls. What we learn what's in store tomorrow. Right after this. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

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[Dan Patrick]

I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up up alone, very far from Earth.

[Marv Albert]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah dude, me too.

[Dan Patrick]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paul]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

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[Dan Patrick]

month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] Rob Base just passed away over the weekend. I believe he was young, like in his 50s. Final call for phone calls. 877-3DP show. By the way, if your hair is not doing what it used to do in your 20s, time for a real comeback, not just a workaround. So having that hat on is not a strategy. Visit neutropol.com Enter the promo code. Dan Patrick this day in Sports History. Have that for you. Coming up, Cody in Indianapolis. Hi Cody. What do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks Theodore. First time in a long time that's the worst of the week. Best is Aloysius calling the games. Just love hearing him talk. Love hearing the talk basketball of course. And my worst is the scores to the games. Like selfishly I don't have any teams in it, but selfishly I Want closer games? It'd be more fun. So yeah, whatever. And my worst of this Tuesday is you accusing Reggie of flopping.

[Dan Patrick]

How dare you. Thank you, Cody. Derek in Washington I. Derek, what do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey Dan, first time, long time, a husky 255. I got a best and worst for you. The best is going to be Colton Cows or the Baltimore Orioles on Sunday hitting his first career walk off home run in the first game of the doubleheader. And better than that, the next day, Monday Memorial Day game, he hits his second career walk off home run. First order to do that since they moved to Baltimore.

[Dan Patrick]

And my worth I got for you

[Caller]

is the Ocado Avalanche. When they were winning in playoffs, they were 72 and 1 when they were winning 30 in a game and then they ended up losing to the Vegas Gold Knights. That's my best and the worst.

[Dan Patrick]

All right, thank you, Derek. This day in sports history. Paul, I just got two for you on that, Dan. Steve Carlton, 1980 of the Phillies became the first National League pitcher to have six one hitters. One hitters in a season in his career. Oh, okay. One hitters, that's kind of a dubious record. Remember, remember when you were growing up you weren't supposed to throw curveballs because that would hurt your elbow. That's not the case anymore. Now it's how hard you throw. Now it's just throwing fastballs at, you know, spin rate is really important. And how fast you throw not. God, you're gonna throw that slider, that screwball or that curve, you're going to blow your arm out. Yes.

[Paul]

Todd, my coach in Little league saw

[Marv Albert]

me playing around with that between innings,

[Paul]

warming up and he gave me this death stare like do you not even think about even practicing that?

[Dan Patrick]

What could have been with Todd as a pitcher? You could have been the next Tarek Scubal. Yes, Dylan, doesn't that seem like much more common sense? That trying to throw the ball as hard as possible be more damaging to your arm than trying to throw a curveball? Yeah, that was a big deal. Like he had to be 12 before you could throw. You know, we wanted to lie because we wanted to throw curveballs. You can only throw it so hard. But a curveball when you're a little kid and I'll take the fastball. That damn curveball had me buckled. Any other ones, Paul? 1988, the Edmonton Oilers won their fourth Stanley cup in five seasons. Well, you had the 80s with the Islanders and then you had the Oilers. Tough to. Tough to choose between those Two dynasties there. Yes, Dylan.

[Paul]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

And then prior to that we had the Canadiens in the 70s. There's a bunch of dynasties in that stretch. Do you have the odds if it's the Knicks, spurs or Knicks Thunder? Yes, actually DraftKings just put these up during the show. Spurs, Knicks, spurs are minus 270 for the series and Knicks are plus 210. Okay, so slight favorite. Yep. And Thunder nicks thunder are minus 280 and the knicks are plus 220. So they're basically. Oh, okay. All right. Todd, did you learn anything today?

[Marv Albert]

I did. Don't blame SGA for flopping and being a foul merchant.

[Dan Patrick]

Get any edge, you can blame the

[Paul]

NBA and the rest.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes. Dylan, how about you? The Cavaliers conceded or quit.

[Marv Albert]

Marvin, you think about LeBron late at night?

[Dan Patrick]

Not late at night, at night. Last night Paul Reggie sold fouls. What did I learn? Todd?

[Marv Albert]

WWE had physical play way before Caitlin

[Paul]

came on the scene.

[Dan Patrick]

What we learned brought to you by Liberty Mutual. Why pay full price when you can customize and save? Switch to Liberty Mutual. Customize your home and auto insurance. You only pay for what you need. A lot of fun. Great to be back. Thanks for the phone calls, emails, tweets, the all around support for Fritzi, Dylan, Marv, Poly, yours truly in the back room, guys. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

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[Dan Patrick]

I want a new phone.

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[Paul]

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