Hour 3 – What the People Wanted, Jim Jackson

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show — Hour 3 Summary

Episode: Hour 3 – What the People Wanted, Jim Jackson
Date: June 2, 2026
Host: Dan Patrick
Guest: Jim Jackson (Fox NBA & College Basketball Analyst)
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts and Dan Patrick Podcast Network

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Overview

This episode focuses on the lead-up and storylines heading into the NBA Finals, the ongoing narrative in the NFL offseason, and evolving trends in sports performance. Dan Patrick is joined by Fox Sports analyst and former NBA player Jim Jackson for an in-depth discussion on star development, mental toughness in big moments, the evolving style of NBA play, and final predictions for Knicks vs. Spurs. The crew fields listener calls, riffs on sports news, and shares banter about snacks, weight loss, and sports betting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NBA Finals: Knicks vs. Spurs—What the People Wanted

• Matchup Hype: Dan and the crew argue that this Finals matchup is as good as it gets outside of Lakers/Knicks, noting the broad appeal of New York and superstar rookie Victor Wembanyama (“Wemby”).
  • Dan Patrick (04:02): “This is what people, I think, wanted…this is global now with Wemby.”
• Matchup Dynamics:
  • San Antonio’s defense (anchored by Wemby) poses a new challenge for the Knicks, who haven’t seen this level of defense in the playoffs’ prior rounds.
  • Knicks respond with Bridges and OG Anunoby on their own defensive front, while both teams pride themselves on physicality.
• Jalen Brunson’s Importance:
  • Marvin (05:30): “How does Jalen Brunson maneuver in the paint, especially with Wemby around?”
  • Dan Patrick (05:44): “Brunson has a knack…that innate ability to find that little opening…he always seems to have you just a little bit off balance.”

2. Player Mentality and Performance Under Pressure

• Chet Holmgren Debate:
  • Listeners and the hosts dissect Chet’s recent Game 7 no-show and question his long-term position as a potential franchise cornerstone.
    • Dan Patrick (12:52): “Chad Holbren has to figure out, do you want to be great…or a career sidekick?”
  • Marvin counters that the criticism may be an overreaction:
    • Marvin (14:39): “They won the NBA title last year with him…It might be just a big overreaction to just a really bad game.”
  • Dan Patrick (15:02): “There has to be...something there that happened in game seven that's undeniable. You didn't have a shot in the second half. That can't happen.”
• Jim Jackson’s Perspective on Churn & Player Development:
  • Jim Jackson (27:55): “Too many times we want to, based on a series, give up on a person when they’re still young and still learning…If the Bulls gave up on Scottie [Pippen]…do we have the dynasty they have?”
  • Dan Patrick (29:44): “But I can’t have somebody who doesn’t take a shot in the second half of the most important game of the season.”

3. How Modern Analytics and Usage Changed NBA Narrative

• From Ball Hog to Ball Dominant:
  • Dan and Jim discuss how the lexicon has shifted—what was once criticized as “ball hog” is now reframed as “ball dominant” due to analytics tracking usage rates.
  • Dan Patrick (33:30): “When did we go from ball hog to ball dominant?...Was Iverson a ball hog, but was ball dominant and great at it?”
  • Jim Jackson (34:02): “It corresponds with analytics…now once we start breaking that number down…they're going to use those numbers to make a point.”

4. Player Skills & The Ineffable “It” Factor

• Brunson and Footwork:
  • The panel extols Jalen Brunson’s elite footwork, spatial awareness, and ability to find unconventional lanes.
  • Jim Jackson (35:51): “…someone like Jalen Brunson who doesn’t rely on athleticism…use your ability in between your ears to understand space, angles, how to create shots.”
  • The discussion broadens to how NBA history is full of “unlikely” greats—Jokic, Giannis, Dirk, Steve Nash, SGA—who succeed not just with athleticism but elite mental approach.
• The Science and Limits of Human Performance:
  • Segment on fastball velocity records and speculation about physical limits (23:59).
  • The crew muses about advancements in training, medicine (Tommy John, ACL, Achilles rehabs), and even the concept of elective surgeries to preempt injuries.
  • Dan Patrick (24:38): “Is there going to be a surgery that strengthens your ulnar [ligament], like an elective beforehand?”

5. NFL Offseason Drama

• Major Trades and Quarterback Questions:
  • Recap of A.J. Brown’s move to the Patriots and trade of Miles Garrett, signaling deeper cracks behind the scenes in Philadelphia and Cleveland.
  • Cleveland’s ongoing QB question, with speculation around Deshaun Watson and rookie Shedeur Sanders.
    • Dan Patrick (10:51): “This kind of feels like somebody’s got to be our quarterback. And it might be Deshaun Watson.”

6. Listener Calls & Show Banter

• Aaron in Fort Wayne highlights Lewis Riddick’s physical shape and references key NBA playoff sequences (12:09).
• Paulie (07:30): Offers weight-loss tips—“Eliminate some things that are just wasteful…like soda. That’s an empty, empty calories.”
• Paul in Iowa (45:31): NFL division Super Bowl stat—“It has been 33 years since the last time two NFL teams from the same division won consecutive Super Bowls.”
• Watercooler topics: staff’s snack indulgences and banter about weigh-in honesty, fishing licenses, and the cost of NFL streaming packages.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Wemby as a Sporting Phenomenon
  Dan Patrick (04:02):

  “This is global now with Wemby, it’s bigger than just San Antonio and New York.”

• On Brunson’s Paint Magic
  Dan Patrick (05:44):

  “Brunson has a knack...just this innate ability to find that little opening. He always seems to have you a little bit off balance.”

• On Chet Holmgren’s Game 7 Letdown
  Dan Patrick (12:52):

  “Chad Holbren has to figure out, do you want to be great because he's going to make $41 million next year. Do you want to be a career sidekick…?”

• On the Dangers of Overreaction
  Jim Jackson (27:55):

  “Too many times we want to, based on a series, give up on a person when they're still young and still learning.”

• On NBA Player Evolution
  Jim Jackson (35:51):

  “The beauty about the game of basketball—especially someone like Jalen Brunson—is...to use your ability in between your ears...understand space, angles, how to create shots.”

• On the Mental Side of Basketball Greatness
  Jim Jackson (38:17):

  “Unbelievable players because they play the game between the ears.”

• Finals Prediction
  Jim Jackson (39:49):

  “I like the Knicks in six...because of their size, defensively and offensively.”

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• NBA Finals Matchup & Crew Debate: 02:21 – 06:32
• Chet Holmgren Discussion/Listener Call: 12:09 – 18:24
• Human Performance Limits & Surgeries: 21:41 – 27:35
• Jim Jackson Interview – NBA Finals, Chet Holmgren, Ball Dominance: 27:35 – 41:13
• Final Banter, Predictions, Callers: 43:25 – End

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Episode Tone & Style

• Conversational, humorous, and candid, mixing sharp sports analysis with in-studio jokes and listener banter.
• Seamless swapping between hard-hitting insights (particularly during Jim Jackson’s segment) and the show’s trademark camaraderie and playful ribbing.

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Additional Highlights

• Show Poll: “What will you be watching more: NBA Finals or Stanley Cup Final?” (56% say NBA Finals) (43:58)
• Finals prediction: Jim Jackson picks the Knicks in six games due to size and matchups.
• Good-natured teasing about staff weight loss honesty and snack choices.
• Reflection on the evolution of the NBA from old-school ball movement to modern analytics and superstar “usage” prominence.

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Summary

This episode of The Dan Patrick Show delivers a comprehensive, insight-rich preview of the NBA Finals and a meditation on the psyche required for greatness. With a mix of listener engagement, expert guest commentary (via Jim Jackson), and signature wit, Dan and the team dig into what makes modern sports and modern athletes tick—on the floor and behind the scenes.

For those who missed it, expect sharp takes on Wemby and Brunson, clarity on the Chet Holmgren drama, and plenty of laughs as legends, legacies, and the next generation of athletes and fans collide.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Dan Patrick]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway for you. Save days are here now through June 23rd. Find hot deals throughout the store and earn four times a point. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Keebler, General Mills, Lactaid Jack Links, Cheez it, and Gatorade. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy pickup or delivery, restrictions apply. See the website for full terms and conditions.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio Final hour

[Dan Patrick]

In this Tuesday, we'll talk to Jim Jackson, former player, now an analyst for Fox Sports, we got NBA tomorrow night. Tonight you got the Stanley cup final. Singular, not plural. NBA finals, plural, not singular. Golden knights at the hurricane. So we'll talk to Jim Jackson. Phone calls always welcome. 877-3-DP show email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle @DP Show Stat of the day brought to you as always by panini America. The official trading cards of the Dan Patrick show. Coming up this weekend, riviera country club, host of the u. S. Women's open on NBC. And peacock. You can also catch this program sometimes award nominated program on peacock, NBC sports network. All right, Dylan, poll question for the final hour of the program is gonna be what?

[Dylan]

Well, Dan, what will you be watching more of the NBA finals or Stanley cup final?

[Dan Patrick]

I would say the NBA finals, but keeping an eye on my golden knights, of course, in this, the Stanley cup final. And you get to see them both on abc. How about that? Basic cable. Yay. And we got it. We can find it. Know instead of going, what channel is this on? What streaming service is this on? Abc? Espn. Yes. The good old days. Yes, Todd.

[Jim Jackson]

It's as easy as abc, I guess.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you, Todd. Or as easy as 1, 2, 3. Or do ray me little Jackson 5.

[Caller]

Action.

[Jim Jackson]

I like it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes. All right, so Tyler's sitting by. He'll take your phone calls here. This is the finals. I think if you. And unless it was going to be the Lakers against the Knicks, which would be Dodgers, Yankees, this is what people, I think wanted. They, they didn't want okc. This is global now with Wemby, it's bigger than just, you know, San Antonio and New York. But if you do it against New York in New York, all of a sudden it magnifies that accomplishment there. But Wemby. And look, I, I know that spurs are a slight favorite here and Wemby is the favorite to win the MVP in the finals. But I do not, if I'm San Antonio and I know they don't take this Knicks team lightly. They, the Knicks haven't seen defense like this. If you look at these other teams that they went through, Cleveland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Josh hart and Jalen Brunson, we're not facing this kind of defense. This is going to be a real test because of that with Wemby, but also Stefan Castle, with Dylan Harper, I mean, they got guys who want to play defense and play a physical style of defense. The Knicks have guys who can play physical defense as well. Bridges and anobi. They are going to be a problem for San Antonio. Yes. Marvin.

[Marvin]

I am interested to see how Jalen Brunson maneuvers in the paint, especially with Wemby around. Now, they've done well against them before, so it's nothing new, but it's just how does. How do you kind of maneuver with Wemby just standing like right there?

[Dan Patrick]

Brunson has a knack. It's just this innate ability to find that little opening. Somehow you see something that somebody else doesn't see. And he always seems to have you just a little bit off balance. And he has to have you a little bit off balance because that's the only way he's going to get a shot off. Yeah, Marv.

[Marvin]

Also, I think everybody in the NBA should focus on his footwork. He's got the best footwork in the NBA, the way he keeps his pivot foot right there and he can maneuver the up and unders. I mean, unbelievable.

[Dan Patrick]

I don't know if Mike Breen can say at the top of the broadcast, tune in and watch Jalen Brunson's footwork next I on abc.

[Marvin]

Oh, I didn't say to watch the footwork. I just said every NBA player.

[Dan Patrick]

All right, we just having fun. Why don't you lighten up a little bit? Why are you uptight today?

[Jim Jackson]

Am I uptight today?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, it feels like.

[Marvin]

Oh, you know what? I was a little annoyed about being called a liar about my weight.

[Dan Patrick]

Big. Well, all I know is somebody was there when you weighed in for your guys, whatever this weigh in competition, and you apparently have lost ten pounds or so you're saying eight. All right. But once again, there was somebody who there saw what you weighed, and then I asked you how much you weigh and then you gave eight pounds less. Dylan lied, too, because he is 245 now.

[Dylan]

235 is three weeks ago the same as today, Dan.

[Dan Patrick]

No, it's not.

[Dylan]

Thank you.

[Dan Patrick]

Are you lying about the three weeks

[Dylan]

that I might just be wrong? Just regular old wrong?

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Paulie went into confessional at the end of the hour and he was asked for weight loss tips. Did you have any?

[Paulie]

I did, but I don't want to be, you know, holier than thou. It's like it's tough to keep your weight down and lose weight no matter what age you are. I would say, though, eliminate some things that are just wasteful. Like these are very obvious, like soda. That's an empty. Empty calories.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paulie]

Eating past 8 o' clock is at night. Yeah. That's bad news.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, we do have a bunch of snacks around here.

[Paulie]

We just got A snack delivery.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paulie]

Like, Fritos were the healthiest thing.

[Dan Patrick]

Fritos. There's Ruffles, there's Skittles, There's M&M's. There's. There's all kinds of. And, you know, the big German's the one who orders all this stuff. And is that. Is that Ray opening up the drawer there?

[Paulie]

Yeah. We're stocked up.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, we are.

[Paulie]

It looks like a bunker.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Well, Eric just likes to lob a grenade in the back there and see us all just go. All right, I guess I'll have some checks. Mix for breakfast.

[Dan Patrick]

I know we got check mix. Yes. So we got all kinds of goodies that just got delivered yesterday. Okay, we'll get to more phone calls coming up. Interesting day for the NFL. They did it again. Here we are. Ready? NHL Stanley cup playoffs. You got the NBA Finals, and then all of a sudden, it's June 1st, and now we have some movement. We've talked a lot about A.J. brown going to the Patriots, and. And there has to be friction behind the scenes between Jalen Hurts and A.J. brown. Has to be, because that was just a. I'm out of here. I'm out of here. Everybody knows I'm out of here. And I'm going to be reunited with Mike Vrabel. And then you had, you know, Miles Garrett being traded, which I'm not shocked. I'm shocked that it didn't happen earlier. And then you're always curious, what are you getting in return for somebody like Miles Garrett and Jared Verse, who I believe is from Ohio. He goes to the Cleveland Browns, and he's a good player, young player, 25 on a rookie deal, and you're going to get draft picks. I think the Browns have done pretty well drafting, and that's the key. You can have draft picks. That doesn't mean you're going to build your roster. You got to have somebody who knows what they're doing. And I think they've done a pretty good job here in recent years. Now you have the Desean Watson situation. I mean, five years ago, he had, like, 33 touchdown passes and five interceptions. And we're like, okay, he's going to be in, you know, that top five list. Then all of a sudden, what happened? Personal life. Cleveland overpays, and he gets hurt, gets hurt again. But I think if. If Shador Sanders was truly a number one quarterback, then they wouldn't be pushing this DeSean Watson narrative, because it feels like there's a, hey, Deshaun Watson, like, if. If Shador is Going to separate himself. Then maybe that's when you say to Deshaun Watson, why don't you help develop Shador Sanders? This kind of feels like somebody's got to be our quarterback. And it might be desean Watson. At least that's the indication right now that he's the leader in the clubhouse. Yeah.

[Paulie]

Pauling, going back to what Lewis Riddick was saying, he said the Browns are in this constant cycle of develop a player, let him go, build for the future. There's no. There's no current for them.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. But I think that they do have some younger players. They did make the Travis Hunter trade. And look, Shador Sanders fell in their lap. If. If he is a franchise quarterback, you know, you got him at a very, very low price. Now. Now is when you got to have smart people. And you got a new head coach in there as well. Todd Monkin hadn't been a head coach. That's tricky. Going to be tricky. And in that division, you know, Cincinnati and Baltimore are going to be competitive. Good. Pittsburgh is going to be Pittsburgh. And, you know, maybe Cleveland just looks at this and. And says, hey, not tanking. Let's just not try to win a lot. That's. That's the new way to go about. We're not tanking. We just try not to win a lot. Yeah.

[Paulie]

Paulie, I went to the Browns website. They have no depth chart listed. None. Most teams have a general depth chart. They have nothing.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, Aaron in Fort Wayne leads us off final hour. Hi, Aaron. What do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey, Dan, thanks for taking my call. And I'm watching on Peacock. Lewis Riddick, he is jacked. I mean, he would put the back row in a pretzel. I mean, he would. But that leads me right into Chester Montgomery. Homegrown. He's taken way too much of the heat and the microscopes on him. There was a play with 126 left in the game. SGA drives in. Wemby's got five fouls. If he's the free throw merchant, he chucks the ball back out to the three point line rather than taking on the contact. And he could have fouled Wemby out right there. And then also the coach, he burned up all of his timeouts with 426 on the clock. So they were gassed down the stretching. That's how it went down.

[Dan Patrick]

All right, look, Chad Holmgren deserves a lot of blame. He does. You had a couple of guys who were banged up for OKC and you know, they go to a seventh game which is pretty remarkable. I didn't think they were the better team. They weren't the healthier team, but they did have home court advantage. But Chad Holbren has to figure out, do you want to be great because he's going to make $41 million next year. Do you want to be a career sidekick now? He was third team all NBA and he was runner up to Wim beat defensive player of the year. I didn't think that he was good enough to be all NBA. I don't think he's a guy who can take over. I, I, I just don't get that feeling. But you got to want to take over. You got to want to be aggressive. That's your home court. It's game seven. I want you scraping, scrapping, clawing, bleeding, because Wemby wanted it. And that's weird to say somebody wants it more than you do, but it was really obvious there. I don't want to move on from Chad Holmgren. There are quite a few analysts I've heard yesterday on the mothership. Oh, he's played his last game. No, he hasn't. Not an okci. I wouldn't move on from him, but I would want to know who Chad Holmgren is moving forward. And it may sound strange to say that, but when you thought you knew and then all of a sudden you get in a moment like that and then you realize, maybe he's not who we thought he was. Now's when you have to hit the reset button and say, chet, do you want to be great? Are you willing to be great? Yes, Morph.

[Marvin]

But I think this might be a big overreaction. I just think he had a bad game. They won the NBA title last year with him, and they won two big game Sevens, Game seven in the finals, and then game seven against Joker and in the Nuggets. So it might be just a big overreaction to just a really bad game. We just can't say we're just going to move on from you or we're going to question whether you want to win. Because he's done that before. He's already proven it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, I think it's an overreaction, but I, I, there has to be. There's something there that happened in game seven that's undeniable. You didn't have a shot in the second half. That can't happen. Like, you can't be benched. Like, what is going on? This isn't a game in November. It's game seven. That's the thing that is alarming to me. The stakes could not have been higher. You're playing a guy against a guy who hates you. You're the defending NBA champs. Come on, give me something. Yeah, Dylan, do you think maybe he

[Dylan]

was just trying to get Wemby to like him so he laid an egg? It's a classic myth.

[Dan Patrick]

I didn't think of that. I didn't think of that. But maybe, maybe he's like, wendy's going, hey, Chester, I'll see you in the off season. Oh, no, that's right. I'll be working out with AEM Elijah on and David Robinson and Jamal Crawford and the Navy seals. Like, there's video of Wemby underwater carrying weights. He's. He's jogging underwater, and I think he's with the Navy seals. Yes, Marv.

[Marvin]

I mean, even after the game, him crying, which he call some flag for which I don't understand because people are always, oh, they don't care enough. Now, do you care too much that you won the Western Conference? It's a big. This means everything to him. I mean, look, early pick for Sportsman of the year if they win the NBA title. Early pick saved the All Star game. Took a team that didn't make the playoffs last year to the NBA championship.

[Dan Patrick]

I thought of that yesterday. I don't know if they still do Sportsman of the Year.

[Paulie]

Yeah. Is there sports ill shade still exist?

[Caller]

I.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, they're laying off all these people, but. But if they're doing Sportsman of the Year. Yes, I thought about that with Wemby. Yeah.

[Paulie]

Paulie, I don't know if it's a comparison, but if you look at Jalen Brown, he was drafted third 10 years ago, and he was in the shadow of Tatum for a long time in Boston. He didn't make his first All Star team till age 25, year 5. But then he became a top level player, not a sidekick in any way, like equal to Jason Tatum. It took a while to get there, but he did it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, but, but great players always add always every year, and be like, I, what can I do? You know, when Kobe got together with Reggie Miller and he said, I want you to teach me a couple of moves, like your step back jumper. And Reggie is teaching him that. And then Kobe uses it against Reg the next time they meet each other the following season. But he sought out somebody, and that's what great players do. You know, you're working with Akeem Olajuwon on footwork, and Akeem had the best footwork of any big man in history. You're working with Jamal Crawford, who has one of the best handles in NBA history. He's doing all the right things. Chad Holmgren has to do this if he wants to be in that conversation. If not, you want to be a third, third option on a team, a very good team, then you'll probably be on another team eventually. All right, we'll talk some hoops. Jim Jackson from Fox will join us coming up next. Take a break. Back after this. Dan PATRICK Show Be sure to catch

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

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Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

[Dan Patrick]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Albertsons and Safeway for you. Save days are here now through June 23rd. Find hot deals throughout the store and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Keebler, General Mills, Lactaid, Jack Links, Cheez it, and Gatorade. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings. When you shop in store or online for easy pickup or delivery, restrictions apply. See the website for full terms and conditions.

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[Dan Patrick]

That's innerbalance.com Since 2009, eight different pitchers have thrown at least one pitch of 104 miles per hour or faster. Now the brewers have Jacob Mizarowski, who's, you know, routinely throwing it at least 101, 102 the fastest pitches thrown since 2009. Ben Joyce of the Angels 105.5. Aroldus Chapman, he had 105.1. He did it in 2024 and then 14 years earlier. Jordan Hicks threw 105 twice in 2018 and then Aroldis Chapman at 105 in 2016. I don't know how fast you can throw a baseball. Like there has to be. Is there a limit? Is there a max? Because we can look at the golf ball technology in golf and they're hitting it further, but that is in large part due to the golf ball. There is technology, but these guys know how to maximize their swing. Is there a limit to how far you can hit a baseball? Is there a limit to how fast you can throw a baseball? Is there a limit to how high you can jump? How fast you can run? I don't Know, I just, at some point you go, I think we're going to top out here. I think. Yes, Dylan.

[Dylan]

Yeah, but I think it's just each generation there's like new benchmarks. So if you told someone in the 1930s that people are going to be throwing 105.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

I mean, they're still throwing hard, you know, like the Bob Gibsons of the world and the, I mean, it's a little bit later, but I think as humans, I mean, weren't people like a couple hundred years ago just on average significantly shorter and smaller?

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

See an old doorway and it's.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, yeah. But also technology, video review, how to, how to maximize, you know, leg strength, the ground. We do that in golf, we do that in baseball. Yes, Dylan.

[Dylan]

Yeah. Like, I mean, modern medicine and, you know, science, I think, grows exponentially, which you see the result of that in sports all the time.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Paulie]

Paulie, there's an article, it's in detail in the New York Times a couple years ago, where they talked to different medical people and people who know about physicists and stuff, and they said that the current type of human will probably top out at 108, 110 in our lifetime, like the next 50 years. Because a lot of advancements have happened in the last 30 years. It's not going to go geometrically that. Well, they think that the ulnar ligament cannot handle more than 110, and it won't for like 500 years maybe.

[Dan Patrick]

But is there going to be a surgery that strengthens your owner, like an elective beforehand?

[Paulie]

Yes, they don't have that in here

[Dan Patrick]

because I wonder if they can do anything with your knees. That, that this is pre, preemptive surgeries. Like, you know, anything's possible with modern medicine of what is happening, what has happened, what's going to be legal. I mean, there's, there's stuff going on now in sports with the leagues, and you go, wait, what are they using? What are they doing? You know, people for years would say, why do you say that? NBA players are on, would use performance enhancing drugs. Any edge you can get, it's about recovery. Like, you're not building a body. I mean, you're not Schwarzenegger here. Yes, there's steroids in golf, performance enhancing drugs in golf, and people's. Why would they do anything that gives you an edge? You can swing faster, you can build muscle, retain muscle. It, it's, it's kind of crazy. And, and you know, there's stories that are circulating now about basketball players and what they could be Using or maybe they are using. Why would you go, oh, that could help a baseball player. Well, why couldn't it help a basketball player? It helps a football player, it helps sprinters. Why would somebody be naive and go, nah, I can't see basketball players doing this?

[Paulie]

Yes, Paulie, that picture you mentioned, Ben Joyce of the Angels, he was hurt at the end of the season last year and he's trying to get back with a shoulder issue. He's in doing. Rehab starts right now, but he had Tommy john back in 2021, so he threw 105 after his first Tommy John surgery.

[Dan Patrick]

And I told you that I have a physical therapist who has worked for with some high end athletes. And he said he has parents coming to. He's had three parents come to him and say, can my son have Tommy John surgery before he needs Tommy John surgery? And my friend said, you know, you look at them and you say, what are you doing? You know, your kid's 14 and you want Tommy John elective Tommy John surgery to make it stronger. Yes, Dylan, I think just even the

[Dylan]

fact that Tommy John and like a torn ACL are not the death sentence career wise, that they used to be even, you know, a very short period of time ago, speaks volumes to the medical advancements.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, the Achilles. Yeah, like being able to come back. Who would have thought, I mean, that that was career ending. Not anymore. Jim Jackson Fox NBA COLLEGE basketball analyst played 14 years in the NBA. We finally found an NBA Finals with two teams that you did not play for in your career, Jim.

[Jim Jackson]

You know, here's the thing about it though, Dan. All those teams continue to allow me to cash those checks. And that was all right, end of the day, End of the day, what

[Dan Patrick]

do you do with Chad Holmgren? I don't want to overreact. Here you are. Why?

[Jim Jackson]

Because I think, you know, here's the thing. It's. Is it a check problem or is it a check problem when they play against Wimby? Now, I know last year in the finals, he struggled a little bit. He had, he was injured, he had to come back and he struggled a little bit. But if you look at chat throughout the course of the year and Shea said this is that, you know, without Chet, they don't win a championship. Without Chet, they're not in a situation to compete. So what happens is in this particular series against Wimby, he doesn't look like Chet Holmgren. So now it's, well, what do we do with him? So I don't want to. I wouldn't be the one that panics right away. Because if you go back to history, think about this. You had questions about Scottie Pippen when he played against the Knicks, his toughness. Could he be that second guy? Now, if the Bulls gave up on Scotty that early, do we have the dynasty that the Bulls have? Kobe Bryant, his rookie year, when he infamously shot those airballs against Utah, if the Lakers panic quickly and Jerry west said, did I make the wrong decision? Is it the Kobe Bryant that we saw? Is it the Laker dynasty? Too many times we want to, based on a series, give up on a person when they're still young and still learning. Yes, he has to grow, especially against Wimby. But I don't think you pull that trigger right away based on. Just because it was San Antonio.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, I wouldn't. That's what I'm saying. I heard analysts yesterday, Jim, saying they think he's played his last game with okc. And I'm thinking, what. Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Hold on here. He's a. He's a good player. He's not a great player yet, but he's going to be compared to Wemby probably the rest of his career.

[Jim Jackson]

Correct.

[Dan Patrick]

That won't go well. But I can't have somebody who doesn't take a shot in the second half of the most important game of the season. So mentally, is what I'm. I'm. I got to figure out, does he want to be great? Does he. Does he want. Does he want the Heat against San Antonio?

[Jim Jackson]

Yeah, because here's the thing. Because in other. And I get what you're saying, too, because with Kobe, at least Kobe wasn't afraid to take the shots. I mean, you knew that. Okay? Airballs are not in the moment. It may not have went through the nets, but his mentality was. I feel I can make it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jim Jackson]

The thing about Chet against San Antonio is the lack of aggression. Okay? If you miss shots, you miss shots. It's going to happen. But his body language, lack of aggressiveness, lack of attacking, lack of doing anything else, it's different, okay? Make miss some shots, rebound, block shots, assist, playmate, all these other things that he could have helped his team to maybe win a game. His stat line didn't indicate that. And I think that's where the issue is with a lot of people, too. Is that okay? Yeah, you didn't shoot well, but, man, you didn't do anything else either. So I hope that internally, they've had enough information, downloaded enough information on chat to understand what his Value is and they don't panic. Now, is it a situation where you can get Giannis? Well, if you can get Giannis, and this is a short term fix in the next three to four years that you got a chance to compete against, you know, San Antonio, who you're going to have to go through. Now, what does that look like? Because you have young players and you have draft assets that can make it make sense. Okay, and, and that's something internally that they have to look at.

[Dan Patrick]

Feels like both of these teams in the Finals are underdogs.

[Jim Jackson]

From what perspective?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, historically, with the Knicks and San Antonio with just youth. Yeah, but they do feel under. I know San Antonio is a slight favorite, but you don't get that sense that they're kind of under doggy.

[Jim Jackson]

I think it's question marks, you know what I mean? Because the status quo is like, okay, well, a young team shouldn't be able to make it this far. A young team, you have to go through the process, which history says that's what teams do. Boston had to do it and they lost in the Eastern Conference finals a couple of times. The Lakers had to do it, the Bulls had to do it. Detroit had whatever it is. But in today's world, with the way the game is and the youth in the game, this team was put together and they were able to jail together a young coach with Ms. Johnson, they all grew and they figured things out collectively and they beat the top dog. So there still are going to be some questions. With New York, it's, yeah, New York is good, but. New York is good, but King Cat, you continue to play and be facilitator. Can Jalen with the ball in his hands, be able to make play? Can Josh Hart as all these things? But the beauty of it is both teams got here in their own unique way. New York played their best basketball at the end of year, Dan. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, unbelievable. Role players understood who they were. And then with San Antonio, everybody just bought in defensively, offensively, no egos. That's the beauty about this series because there are still some little unknowns like okc, you know who they are. Golden State, you knew who they were. These two teams, I think are still evolving. Even though New York is still an older, more mature team. You know, they still got some questions to answer.

[Dan Patrick]

When did we go from ball hog to ball dominant? Like, remember, this was a bad thing. Isaiah was with us a couple of weeks ago and he said, yeah, we, we were a ball hog. If, you know, wasn't ball dominant But I don't know, like, was Iverson a ball hog? But was ball dominant and, and great at it? Like, I don't know when, when we went from that. Yeah, man, pass the ball too. Hey, he needs it so he can get his shots.

[Jim Jackson]

Well, correspondent with analytics, because analytics is going to tell you somebody's usage rate and now once we start breaking that number down, a high usage right now, again, that takes in a lot of factors, but a James Harden, a Russell Westbrook, a Luka Doncic, Jalen Brunson, because they have the ball in their hands a lot more and those analytics are going to look different and they're going to use those numbers to make a point about a person or to make another point about a person that they two ball dominant. And that's a great question too because throughout the game in history, there have been guys that dominated the ball a little bit more, but it wasn't looked, I don't know if it was looked at it the same way it is in today's game because they're a little bit more isolation, you know, in some situation. And a, and a player like a Jaylen Brunson, who does dominate the ball but still make play, still make shots big time. So it, it's, it's a confluence. Now here's the thing. Jaylen Brunson dominates, but yet if you're Mike Brown, if you're Thibod, man, I gotta have the ball in my best player's hand. And the way their team is built, who else now that cat is doing his thing but before is going to facilitate, who else at the end of the shot clock is really going to go get their shot? So it's a catch 22 with depending on how your team is made up.

[Dan Patrick]

We're talking to Jim Jackson, Fox Sports. How do you explain what Brunson does in a tiny space? That ability to his handle is not outside his body. It's kind of tight spaces. But to find those spaces, not be afraid of those spaces and, and kind of get you leaning one way or another. I can you teach that?

[Jim Jackson]

Yeah, you, you can because this is, this is the beauty about the game of basketball. Especially somebody like Jalen Brunson who doesn't rely on athleticism to be able to make him the kind of player that he is. So give a lot of credit to his father, Rick Brunson, when he was younger to understand, to use your ability in between your ears to understand space angles, how to create shots. Okay, so you take the number one player in high school Point guard. Watch. He could have went anywhere, Dan, but he chose to go to Villanova. Ryan Archie Diaconnell was the starting point guard at that time. Jalen Brunson could have started for, you know, 800 other schools, but he chose to go there.

[Dan Patrick]

Why?

[Jim Jackson]

Because the teaching, the fundamentals, understanding how to play the game the right way was very important. It was valuable. So now you get to Villanova, you're learning how to play off of two feet, in between small, tiny spaces. So take his already high iq. Combine that with what Jay Wright was doing in that system there at Villanova, and now you have the national player of the year, a two time champion. Even though he won the second round in the draft, people still question whether he could do it. And now you have more space to play within the NBA. But yet, and still the skill set has continued to develop. That's why Jalen Brunson is so potent as a player, because he doesn't rely on athleticism, but he can get to a spot, use his body, create space, and excellent footwork.

[Dan Patrick]

But the NBA is littered with guys who don't look like they can be all time greats. Joker did not look like it. Giannis when he got here. Dirk was labeled soft. Steve Nash too small.

[Jim Jackson]

Sga.

[Dan Patrick]

Sga. I mean, you, that's the beauty of basketball.

[Jim Jackson]

Yes.

[Dan Patrick]

It's. He doesn't look like he could score 40. Like even Luca, when you're around, when you watch Luca, you're like, okay. And then all of a sudden you look up and he's got 35. I just, I, I find that fascinating that these guys have that some, you know, something different in their DNA that allows them to be better because they figured it out. It's not, you know, and those guys I mentioned, I'm. They're not relying on athleticism at all. Like crazy athletic. I mean, they have it, but you're just somehow some way you figured out Rubik's Cube here. And I think that's what's fascinating with

[Jim Jackson]

Brunson, but the history of the game too. Think about it. Larry Bird, same way. A Jack Sickman, same way. Because the guys and the players he had to play against were a little bit more athletically gifted. But what they were able to do with Kevin McHale, okay, it was footwork, it was understanding angles, it was, okay, where do I receive the ball? Can I get to my space? These things were drilled over and over and over again, okay? To utilize who they have around them, but also to understand this is how I'm gonna make My money is these. Is this the skill set that I have developed based on who I am as a player, not anybody else. And that's the beauty about the game, because the game can be played in a lot of different ways. And I think a lot of times we in today's world harp on athleticism. Athleticism, athleticism. Well, at some point, athleticism is great because it's athletes across the board in every sport, but the ones that understand how to make that connection up here. That's why I think Michael Jordan was such a. This is a phenomenal player because he took the athleticism with the skill set, the mindset of how to play the game. That's what made him unstoppable. Okay, and the same thing you talked about with, I think, Jalen and SGA and Luca Jokic. Unbelievable, I mean, unbelievable players because they play the game between the ears.

[Dan Patrick]

How does the Finals play out?

[Jim Jackson]

I like the. I like the Knicks in six. And the reason why is because. Not because the six. I mean, the Knicks beat him 2:1 during the season. It's a matchup thing. Now, listen, the. I mean, OKC has already dealt with Garden. Anthony Edwards already dealt with sga. They're going to plug him, send multiple guys at him, force other players like Alex Caruso and Mitchell, if he would have played or to make shots. So that means Josh Hart, who Wimby probably is going to start on, is going to have to make shots. But what I love about this New York team, they're bigger across the board, you know, with Mitchell, Robinson inside and Cat outside. But across their wings with OG and also Mikhail Bridges and Jock, they have size. San Antonio is not a big team outside of wimby. They're not big in Luke Cornett who comes in. So those double teams, when they come and get Jalen in the middle of the court, now you have bigger guys receiving the ball in the middle with OG and Mikhail that can make play. I just think that gives them a strategical advantage that the other teams didn't have. And that's why I like the Knicks defensively, offensively, because of that size that they have, that can, I think, negate some of that aggressive defensive nature that San Antonio will employ.

[Dan Patrick]

Great to talk to you. Thanks for joining us.

[Jim Jackson]

You got it, brother.

[Dan Patrick]

All right.

[Jim Jackson]

Enjoy it, man.

[Dan Patrick]

That's Jim Jackson, Fox NBA college basketball analyst and the Clippers lead analyst as well. Take a break. Last call for phone calls. What we learn, what's in store tomorrow after this.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

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[Dan Patrick]

I found out that I don't have to pay for a fishing license in the state of Connecticut when you're over the age of 65.

[Paulie]

Yeah, all the benefits.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, yeah. I keep looking for all the benefits of turning 70. I found one. I don't have to pay for my fishing license. I'm going fishing tomorrow for trout, but my waiters are up in Maine so I might have to go out and get another pair of waiters because we're going in the river doing a little fly fish in there late in the afternoon. Final Results of the poll question there, Dylan.

[Dylan]

Well, Dan, what will you be watching more of the NBA Finals or Stanley cup final? 56% say the NBA Finals. I'm going to disagree, but I get it.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, that's fair. Let's see. Reggie Miller will be on the program tomorrow. Get us ready for the NBA Finals. Finding a few more people who like the Knicks. Few more people like the Knicks. Yes, Todd, I meant to ask you,

[Jim Jackson]

do you tip your waiters.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you, Todd.

[Marvin]

Or do you keep your hand steady?

[Dan Patrick]

Yes, Dylan, I sent this around a little bit, but the. It's not easy doing this show. It's not. It is not.

[Jim Jackson]

My apologies for that.

[Dan Patrick]

You are the king of the left turns. You are.

[Dylan]

Three lefts. Make a right, though.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you. Yeah, I was gonna say thank you, Todd, but yeah. Did you have something? I did. Oh, okay. All right.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

All right.

[Dylan]

There are some. Some old rivalries, bub. The NBA Finals. I don't know if you remember, but after Wemby's first 40 point game, his rookie year, it was also the same game. Jalen Brunson had 61, and then Wemby, I believe, had a block at the end and then launched the ball into the stands for which he was fine. But people were also like, hey, that's Jalen. That should be Jalen Brunson's ball. So maybe a little bad blood.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, I. I hope, yeah, it's the NBA final.

[Dylan]

Well, there's not always bad, but I guess also the Knicks did get the best of them in the NBA cup this year.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Paul in Iowa. Paul, thanks for holding. What do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey, Dan. Well, it's been a while since I called in. A lot of changes. Now I have two girls under two. So if you have any advice on that. First time I've called in since Dylan got the upgrade. Congrats, buddy. But wanted to drop a Rams related stat of the day for you.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, so.

[Caller]

After the Miles Garrett trade, It has been 33 years since the last time two NFL teams from the same division won consecutive Super Bowls. The 92 Redskins and the 93 Cowboys. Brought to you by Panini America. Wow.

[Dan Patrick]

Product placement there. Paul in Iowa. Good to have you back. David in Ohio. Hi, David. What do you have for me?

[Caller]

Hey, what's up, Dan? I don't know if you saw on the. On the news, but Roger Goodell is apparently going to be testifying in Congress about the TV deal that the NFL is doing with some of its partners. And with the price of being able to watch every game. I did the math. It's about eleven hundred dollars to watch every game of all the streaming platforms. I didn't know if you saw that or had a comment on that.

[Dan Patrick]

I saw it. I don't have a comment. You know, maybe something happens. But yeah, you know, that's pretty hefty price tag. Yes, Dylan.

[Dylan]

All right, late poll question. Would you rather spend eleven hundred dollars to get the entire year's worth of WWE or eleven hundred for every NFL game?

[Dan Patrick]

Every NFL game. I've yet to watch a WWE event.

[Dylan]

I was being sarcastic.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you. Thank you. I can't tell with the back row. You guys.

[Marvin]

He was being sarcastic.

[Dan Patrick]

All right. Thank you, Todd. What did I learn today?

[Jim Jackson]

Jim Jackson says, okay, so you shouldn't

[Ryan Seacrest]

panic after game seven and look to

[Jim Jackson]

get rid of Chet Holmgren.

[Dan Patrick]

Reggie Miller will join us on the program tomorrow. Enjoy the hockey tonight for Fritzi. Dylan, Marv, Paulie, yours truly, have a great day. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Marvin]

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