Kyra K. Dixon (2:14)

It is Friday, February 21, 2025. This is another offseason edition of Football Today. Justin Pennock checking in. Chris Rose checking in, producer Connor checking in. What we should be doing is checking in on Bobby Skinner. Isn't he saying I do this weekend?

Justin Pennock (2:30)

Oh, he, he sure is. And what we're, what we're both hoping to cross at our fingers for is if this Matthew Stafford thing is going to happen, it doesn't happen on Sunday while we're doing the Macarena at Bobby Skinner's wedding. That's what we're hoping is does not happen.

Kyra K. Dixon (2:46)

Okay, let's just play this out real quick because we will start with the Stafford discussions and what it means for the giants and RAMs, etc. If it happens the morning of his wedding. Do you guys record an episode the more the morning?

Justin Pennock (3:00)

Yes.

Kyra K. Dixon (3:01)

Oh my gosh. Panic. Let me tell you something. Does his bride understand this?

Justin Pennock (3:07)

Yes, he, she very much understands the, the job and I, I actually think she may encourage it.

Kyra K. Dixon (3:13)

Wow. Wow. That's the deal. That's a big deal. Hey, leave us, leave us some comments down below. What would your significant other think if breaking news happened and you hosted a podcast like Talking Giants and your team was involved in a possible huge deal for a guy like Matthew Stafford? Would that person be okay with you recording an episode of Talking Giants? That's remarkable. Okay, good stuff. I like it. So while we're here, Pennock.

Justin Pennock (3:43)

Yeah.

Kyra K. Dixon (3:44)

Obviously the reports are it's either the Rams or the Giants. You know, heard all sorts of, you know, what would the Giants send in return to Los Angeles? What would it mean for the Rams left behind? Where are we with this in Giants world?

Justin Pennock (4:03)

I think it's going to happen and it's just a matter of when, not if. Where we're at right now, it's February 20th, you know, and a lot of people saying, oh, you got to wait on the combine. I don't even know if the Rams, If Sneed and McVeigh, I don't even think they go to the combine.

Kyra K. Dixon (4:18)

They haven't been. Yeah.

Justin Pennock (4:20)

So I don't even know if, like conversations would progress at the combine. I, I, I don't know what necessarily the hold up is. Maybe it's like you, it's a trade and then you would have to agree to a contract extension. That's typically how this stuff works. And I think why the Rams and the Matthew Stafford are having trouble in the first place is because of money. So that's my theory. I, I think we're kind of waiting on not an F, but a when now things could change and, you know, teams can move in or even the Rams could work out a deal with Stafford, but I think this is, this is pretty close. We're kind of waiting on the edge of our seats in terms of Giants land about when this is going to happen.

Kyra K. Dixon (4:56)

Okay, so a few things. Does that mean that if a quarterback falls to you at three, then Matthew Stafford is the guy to be the mentor for future quarterback? Does it mean you just ride it out with Stafford and let him play another year or two or however long he plays? We do see guys get into their 40s and he has been extremely healthy for the most part throughout his career. What do you do if you're the Giants?

Justin Pennock (5:22)

I would hope that they would take best player available at 3, a guy that can help them right now or even trade back, acquire more assets, acquire more players through this year's draft, maybe even next year's draft. And it can help you right now because this trade for Matthew Stafford is a help you right now move. And what do Joe Shane and Brian Dabel need? They need help right now. They need to prove to their boss, their owner that they can win football games and they can start to win football games now. Maybe if this were the first year of a regime like we just saw the Atlanta Falcons do, and there's a lot of people that say, oh, but it kind of worked out. I still am of the belief that if you wanted to draft Michael Penix, you should have never signed Kirk Cousins. Because now, like, what are you going to do with. What are you going to do with Kirk Cousins? That's a big question that they have. So maybe if they're in the first year of a regime, maybe they like to do that of like, oh, well, let's trade for the veteran and then also draft the guy at three. But Joshane and Brian Dabel, they are running out of time. They need a player like a Travis Hunter, an Abdul Carter, a Mesa. They need somebody that can kind of come in there and help them immediately impact them from day one of this year. Matthew Stafford can do that on the quarterback side of things and then whatever, you know, I guess defensive player they would draft, that player can kind of help you, you know, upgrade day one right then and there. And then also, as a Giants fan, Rose, this is something I want to throw at you too. Something that hasn't been talked about. I do think that Brian Dable and Joe Shane, they have one or two years left at best. I do not think that this is going to work. A lot of the NFL world was surprised that those guys were kept, that they should have probably been fired. They just have not done a good job. If the, the Giants are going to take some sort of swing at quarterback this offseason, right. Like they have to, it's either going to be drafting a quarterback or three, you know, signing a Sam Darnold or you know, even like a Justin Fields, even though that's not a big swing. They're going to take a different approach at quarterback this year because they have to. They have to. They're not going to sit on their hands and just be, oh, we have to wait for the perfect guy. They're going to take a swing. I would rather take the swing of Matthew Stafford, which is money Rose. It's going to be money. I don't think the first round or second round pick is going to be involved in this.

Kyra K. Dixon (7:32)

No.

Justin Pennock (7:32)

For the Giants. So at this point it we're talking about money. I would much rather kick money down the line if that's going to be the swing that a desperate regime is going to take. Then drafting Shadur Sanders at 3, a new regime comes in and then we have to do this whole song and dance all over again about does the new regime believe in this guy? They have to play him. It's much easier to just get rid of money and kick that down the road rather than a valuable draft asset, especially one. A guy that you draft in a quarterback. Yeah, that's Matthew Stafford is the lesser of two evils.

Kyra K. Dixon (8:10)

I get it. I mean, I don't know what would make ownership change the regime after next year as opposed to what we just saw this season. Because even if you do get Matthew Stafford, you're still most likely the fourth best team in the division at best. Third. Right. You've got the super bowl champs. You've got Washington, which has got their quarterback and probably had the worst team that they will have around Jaden Daniels for the foreseeable future. In a year where they went to the NFC title game and Dallas is, I wouldn't call them a complete mess, but they're kind of a non factor in my eyes. So I don't know what would make them, you know, want both GM and head coach back. I just can't figure that one out. To me, the more interesting part of the equation is what the Rams do. Okay. The Rams were as close as anybody to beating the Philadelphia Eagles in the playoffs this year. Right? They were. They had consecutive screw ups by their rookie center. And if not, maybe it's the Rams that were playing in the super bowl with Matthew Stafford. So I don't quite understand why they want to move on from him. What is the next plan in place? The Athletic has reported they'd be perfectly fine with Jimmy Garoppolo as their starter quarterback next year. I can't believe that. I just. I don't see it. I don't understand it, and I don't believe it. And I don't see them going out to get anybody. That would make them significantly better than what Matthew Stafford has made them the last couple of years.

Justin Pennock (9:28)

Yeah, especially in December and January. Like, Matthew Stafford has been so, so good. And when it, when it matters most, I think, like, throughout NFL history, there's like a 33rd team stat out there that's like the NFL history. Matthew Stafford has some of the best numbers in December and January. So, I mean, you know, Rose, like, we're. The theme of the episode today is, you know, the NFC perfect scenario. We kind of did that for the AFC on last week's episode. So I'll kind of just, you know, spoil it a little bit. I have a, you know, the Vince Gill song, Don't let. Don't let our love start slipping away.

Kyra K. Dixon (10:03)

No, you're. You're bringing up the wrong. If you're bringing up country to this guy, you might as well not bring it up. Sorry. I have respect for the, you know, what they do for the genre. It's not playing in my car or in my earbuds anytime. Sorry.

Justin Pennock (10:16)

Oh, but Vince, Vince. Kill. Such a good song of the 90s. Don't let our love start slipping away.

Kyra K. Dixon (10:21)

Maybe start singing it and maybe it'll help me recollect.

Justin Pennock (10:24)

Don't let our love start slipping Love start slipping away all right, so if I'm the Rams, that's, like, what I'm asking you. It's, you know, a couple years ago. This is pre Puka Nukua. You know, we're talking about Stafford maybe retiring and McVeigh retiring. Do you remember that? Where it's like, are. Are these guys even going to be back? And then the emergence of Puka Nukua, and then you have a really good draft class, you know, last year, and then you expand upon it with another good draft class this year with the front two defensive players even get, you know, Bo Limmer in there, you know, the center that, you know, wound up messing up some snaps, but he was like a starter this year. So you have a couple good draft classes here. And especially the emergence of Puku. And I feel like that kind of saved Matthew Stafford's career towards the latter end of. Towards the latter part of his 30s. And if I'm the Rams. I'm looking at them. Be exactly what you just said. You go toe to toe with the Lions last year, a juggernaut of a team. You as a team are not a juggernaut, at least not yet. And then even this year, you go toe to toe with the Eagles and the Rams, once again, from a roster standpoint, they are not a juggernaut, but they're going up against the juggernaut of a team, and they go toe to toe with them. Why would you want to lose the momentum that you've built over the last two years? Even if Matthew Stafford is a little bit older and even if he wants a little bit more money, why would you want to lose that?

Kyra K. Dixon (11:46)

I don't get it. I don't get it. All right, it is time, though. To our NFC team, perfect scenarios. We're going to go reverse order of the draft this year. So your Giants, whom we've already talked about significantly, are first up on this show. What do you have as the perfect scenario?

Justin Pennock (12:01)

Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback, Quarterback. Because it's the only thing that the Giants were talking about after the season ended. John Marrow, it was said quarterback, quarterback, quarterback. And then Joe Shane said quarterback, quarterback, quarterback. And even though they're. The rest of the roster needs work and they have questions on the cornerback side, even though they drafted a cornerback in the first round and they don't really believe in him as CB1, they have questions on the offensive line. Even though they've spent a ton of resources and allocations on that, especially on the interior, they have major questions. They have major. I think they have major questions at wide receiver. Is Darius Slayton going to be brought back and who's going to tell Malik Neighbors where to line up, where. And they have a lot of questions around their roster. But if you talk to a lot of people in the building, you know, if they. Or at least if you talk to them publicly, they're just going to talk about quarterback, quarterback, quarterback, because they are desperate for it. Chris Rose.

Kyra K. Dixon (12:52)

Yeah, makes sense. Got to start there. And we've talked about it ad nauseam on this show. If you don't have a plan, you and Deep Dog, you know what? Carolina Panthers, for me are up next. And I think a lot of people would look at it and say, well, you got to get Bryce Young more help, particularly on the outside, right? He doesn't have enough weapons. And I understand that. And that should be priority two. Priority one is fixing that horrific defense. It was the only defense in the NFL last year that allowed more than 400 yards per game. It was the only defense in the NFL that allowed more than 30 points per game. So you have got to fix that. And I would really look at the secondary. That was a joke last season. But I think part of the fact is that they didn't get enough push up front. Right. They've got Derek Brown, who is a fantastic player when he is out there. He is great. I'll be honest with you. I would take the best defensive tackle with my number 8 overall pick to pair with him, get that push through the center. We have seen how disruptive that can be in the NFL when you're pushing linemen right back into the quarterback space, how much that helps an entire defense. So I don't know if that's Mason Graham. I don't know if that's too high for a guy like Walter Nolan, not Ole Miss. Go get edge help on the free agent market. There's enough guys there. You might be end up overpaying a little bit. Fix the defense up front because that will eventually help your secondary. But my God, I, I can't watch the Carolina Panthers play defense. For God's sakes, don't ask Bryce Young to go score 35 points a game. Cause that's not going to happen right now.

Justin Pennock (14:32)

No, no. And I think Bryce Young. We're going to go through an off season where people are going to overhype Bryce Young a little bit. We saw Bryce Young finish the season and honestly he was playing average. It was like average quarterback play.

Kyra K. Dixon (14:44)

Right.

Justin Pennock (14:45)

But I think for Bryce Young, compared to what he was doing his rookie year and compared to what he was doing towards the start of the season, I think people are going to look at average and be like, oh my God, this guy can creep into, you know, above average or top 10, you know, not. Maybe not top 10, but people are going to overhype what Bryce Young did last year simply because I think the bar was set so low. But he made a great point on the defense. This is a team in the Carolina Panthers last year that put a lot of resources and a lot of money on the offensive line, I think particularly on the interior. And they even went out, they got a Sean Robinson last year, gave him a little bit of money on the interior. He's more of a run stopper, a Sean Robinson. So I would predict that, hey, if the Panthers, they want to build this thing upright, continue to put more resources on the O line, continue. You got to put more resources on that defensive side. Pat, you know, you got to get after the pastor. I mean they have a bunch of good run stoppers. But you know, if Jadevian Clown is your best edge rusher, you know, that's not really doing too much for you. At least the biggest name you got to be able to get after the quarterback a little bit. Let's get some more size. Let's get some more pass rushes on that defensive side and build it up that way. I'm with you and I think they can. They showed last year that they are willing to build it up in that right way.

Kyra K. Dixon (15:51)

You got the Saints up next?

Justin Pennock (15:53)

Oh, I do. Rose, you ever see the office?

Kyra K. Dixon (15:57)

Sure. Now that one I'm on board with everyone.

Justin Pennock (16:01)

Michael Scott yelled I declare bankruptcy.

Kyra K. Dixon (16:04)

Okay, good.

Justin Pennock (16:06)

I need the Saints to yell I declare bankruptcy because just give it up, man. Give up tossing the money down the line, signing the veterans and you know, just push the money back. Push the money back. Give it up. Because I think this is a team that may need to go through a little bit of mud for a year or two to get them. Get yourselves in a better financial situation. Because you're not going to go out there as I think the NFC south is an emerging division, as you have the Atlanta Falcons. They need to have a big off season. They have a lot of money to spend. Are you? Maybe not. You know, they have a good amount, you know, of. Of resources that they need to. They need to get. The Bucks are continue to be an emerging team that drafts well. So I, I don't think. I think the Saints are lowering themselves on the NFC south hierarchy, which is not a very competitive hierarchy to begin with. Declare bankruptcy, try and get this cap situation sorted out and kind of just continue to draft well like Mickey Loomis has. Has kind of done. And don't, don't do what you've done the last couple years with the cap and being in the red. I think they're like 47, 40 something million in the red right now.

Kyra K. Dixon (17:19)

47. They're in the worst cap situation in the league by far. More than double the next worst, which would be the Cleveland Browns, so. Or right around double. Yeah, they're a mess, you're right. I don't know with Mickey Loomis if that. If that's the philosophy because I just don't see. For a guy who's basically had the longest tenure of any decision maker in the NFL with a single team, I don't know if he'll do it. I mean, it makes sense, you know, from your lips, but I don't I don't see it. I don't see it. I'll move on to the Chicago Bears. For me, it's pretty simple. Fortify the offensive line, whatever you can do to help Caleb Williams development, it starts up front with those five. You know, Ben Johnson, everybody thinks of him as this wonderful offensive genius and that is true. But hopefully he learned something from being in Detroit. When Detroit came in with their new regime coaching staff in front office, what's the first thing they did was build up the offensive and defensive lines. And some people looked at it, were like, what are you doing? Well, now the Lions are the Lions because of what they do up front. And the bears have over 60 million in cap space. Smith, welcome to Chicago. I think he's a guy that they're going to go after. You also have the 10th pick in the draft. Whatever tackle is available, go get him. Williams was sacked 68 times last year and obviously with a rookie quarterback who likes to extend plays. That is not all on the five guys up front. However, it's the third most of any quarterback in the history of the NFL. My buddy David Carr, Randall Cunningham are the only guys who got sacked more frequently in a single season. So go get him. Go get him feeling well. Allow him to play the best quarterback. Not only improvisational skills, but playing quarterback by standing in the pocket and being able to read a defense. And that starts with feeling comfortable. There you go. Bears. Pretty simple.

Justin Pennock (19:20)

Yeah. All three of their starting interior offensive lineman, including some of their backups too. They're going to be free agents. I. I would maybe even like this.

Kyra K. Dixon (19:28)

Good.

Justin Pennock (19:28)

I would like to see them bring back Tevin Jenkins. Tevin Jenkins is a really nice story of a guy that was a high draft pick drafted as a tackle, but he's converted to guard. Really nice. But he's probably going to be looking for a little bit of a payday. But yeah. Trey, Trey Smith, 69. It's so, it's so amazing that the Bears have not really. They've gone on, they've spent the last couple off seasons but pretty not recklessly that they still have, you know, $69 million in cap space. You know, with the rookie on that, you know, the look with the rookie, you know, rookie quarterback on his rookie deal. And you look at that defense too. Like you have Montez sweat. You have you extended Jalen Johnson. You would. You extended DJ Moore. Like they still have so much cap space and so much room. It's the Chicago is really set up to build a really, really good roster. Very Competitive NFC north, though.

Kyra K. Dixon (20:14)

You're up with the Niners.

Justin Pennock (20:16)

Yeah, man. We got to bring back a 49er defensive identity, like. And I'm really glad that Robert Sal is back as the defense coordinator. Hasn't been there since 2020 or 2021. Same defensive efficiency as the Cincinnati Bengals last year. Rose the San Francisco 49ers. If I were to kind of just quiz you on that, like, defensive EPA per play and be like, you know, just overall efficiency, you would not think that the 49ers and the Bengals would be on the same level, but they were. And I'm looking at that front. Besides Nick Bosa, who really intimidates you.

Kyra K. Dixon (20:54)

No, they. You know, I thought that they kind of misjudged the talent level. I. I even thought that it was going to be significantly better than the season before. Listen, they missed Hargrave an awful lot. You know, that. That's a dude that I think does so much good dirty work on the interior that when he's not around, then you realize how good he is. But, yes, they. They massively, massively underachieved. And Nick Sorensen was in over his head as a defensive play caller.

Justin Pennock (21:21)

Yeah, I mean, 2022. I watched every play, every defensive play of them in 2022 for a project I'm working on with Nick Bosa. And that was just an attacking. An attacking unit. The stunts that they would run, the twist that they would run, the games that they would run up front. I think Robert Sal's gonna. That was D'Amico Ryan's as defense coordinator, but I think Salah's gonna try and bring back that attacking mentality. But still, you do need the players there. Like, I don't like Utor Gross. Matos Drake Jackson was a guy in. In year two that I thought was gonna take a step up and kind of ascend, but I think he was hurt. He wound up missing, like, half the year. So th. This is another team, you know, so. So, you know, what do you learn from the super bowl and what do you learn from the postseason? Well, what you learned from the Philadelphia Eagles is that they invest in O line and D line and pass rushers, and they just spam it and it works. It's. So. I feel like so many teams were now saying, go and get more on the fronts. Right? But I think the 49ers do it. They need more disruptors on defense. Get. Get back to having Nick Bosa as that lead catalyst of hitting the quarterback, sacking the quarterback more than anybody in the NFL. And the way that you could do that is by getting guys on that defense that can attack and that could fill holes and it opens stuff up for Nick Bosa to be the dude that he can be very excited for. Robert Salah back. But that offense, you know, maybe had its flaws at times, but that offense, you know, the numbers are relatively good for the 49ers. That defense needs to bring back its identity that it had a couple years ago.

Kyra K. Dixon (22:49)

Dallas Cowboys are up next. This is a tough one for me to say, but I think it's really important for the future of this franchise. Realize that even though you pay Dak Prescott like an elite quarterback, he needs a massive amount of help. They don't support him enough. They think that just because he's the highest paid quarterback that he's going to win you games in the clutch. And this is not who Dak is. I think that he is a solid quarterback but he is nowhere near the dudes at the top of the discussion that when you know the game is on the line, hey guys, get on my back and let's go. He needs to be a guy that plays from in front and they have done a terrible job of helping him out at running back. Right. Rico Dowdle actually had a thousand yards last season and he's about to be a free agent. But they need a difference maker right there. If you want to take one at 12, go for it. As long as the right guy is there. Clam needs a running mate. We have talked about that for several years now. Go do it now. They made a couple of their. Two of their top three picks last year were offensive lineman Guyton and Bibi. Both ended up starting. Hopefully those guys pan out to be okay. But just keep getting Dak more help. They're not going to have a lot of wiggle room in free agency. And we know what's hanging over on the contractual side on the defensive side of the football. But you have to understand, yes, you have paid Dak Prescott. We can argue until we're blue in the face. Whether that was the right move doesn't matter. You've done it now. Go get him sufficient help or you're just going to be the third best team in the NFC east at best for years to come.

Justin Pennock (24:30)

Rose, I'm starting to get worried that the Dallas Cowboys we used to so.

Kyra K. Dixon (24:37)

Oh.

Justin Pennock (24:37)

But at least they have a good roster, right? They have a good roster. They have problems, they have holes. They have a good roster. I am starting to get worried. You look up and down this roster and you look up and down about who's about to become a free agent for the Dallas Cowboys. They have Zach Martin, who's about to become a free agent, who may retire.

Kyra K. Dixon (24:57)

Right. Who?

Justin Pennock (24:58)

I don't know if they want to pay him. Demarcus Lawrence, who, granted, not the same pass rusher that he was. He's still very good run defender and that's what this defense needs. They need run stoppers. OSA Digi Zuwa on the interior. I mean, there's no interior presence on that team. Mozzie Smith has not been good for that.

Kyra K. Dixon (25:13)

Nope.

Justin Pennock (25:13)

OSA Diggy Zua's about to free a free agent. Do they want to pay him? Eric Kendricks is a linebacker for them. Okay. A veteran doesn't really do too much. But you have demarvi on overshone who's coming off another season ending injury where he started to show a little bit of promise. I mean, there are a lot of questions that this Dallas roster has and the Stars will carry them and they will take them place. CD Dak and Micah Parsons. So you have those three. They're going to take you places and they're going to help you win games. But Rose, you look at this roster, it is not very good.

Kyra K. Dixon (25:47)

No. I've always think that the roster has been overvalued because of the star on the side of the helmet. And I just think they're okay and I think that they'll be okay for years to come at best. But we'll see, we'll see a lot of holes. All right, up next for you, you've got the Atlanta Falcons.

Justin Pennock (26:07)

Yeah. Similar to the San Francisco 49ers. We need a defensive identity. We need to find a defensive identity and it is continuing to add players up front. Take a step up from Ben, but don't break. Add pass rushers. And under Raheem Morris, there is no reason why you should have a bottom two third down defense in the NFL and a bottom five red zone defense. What, what, what is the point of hiring a defensive coach if your defense is horrible? And it has been. But don't break and it is not an advantage for you. So you know the talent that the Falcons have offensively and even like there's some talented players defensively there too. It needs to kind of match up and they need to have a very, very big offseason of adding players on that defensive side of the ball so you feel better about it. Just too much Ben, but don't break for me. Too much Ben, but don't break like you Play the Atlanta Falcons. You get excited as an offense thinking that, you know, you. You can kind of dink and dunk. We can run a lot of plays. We can run the ball. They won't allow the big play, which that was the. The best part about what they did last year is those safeties and that secondary. They're not going to allow the big play, but they allow everything underneath. They allow you to run the ball, find a better defensive identity, especially under a defensive head coach. And Raheem Morris, you gotta find it.

Kyra K. Dixon (27:25)

That was disappointing because, you know, part of the reason they hired him, you said, let's take care of the offense. You all do that. And the defense is mine. And we thought, based on what he had done in Los Angeles, that, yeah, it was going to take a huge step up and it just wasn't good enough.

Justin Pennock (27:41)

It got worse. It was actually. It was actually very good against the run, and then it got worse.

Kyra K. Dixon (27:47)

Yeah. But you know what? For years they have gone out the dude when it comes to pass rushing. I don't know what it is with this franchise. They just can't seem to nail that at all. Right. Like Vic. Remember when they drafted Vic Beasley?

Justin Pennock (28:02)

Yeah. Thought he was going to be the dude.

Kyra K. Dixon (28:04)

Yeah. And he had one year where it. Yeah. Where he really popped, and then that was it. And it just doesn't feel like they're getting that right. I know they traded for Matthew Judon, who I believe is now a free agent, but. Yeah. Hasn't been good enough. Hasn't been good enough.

Justin Pennock (28:18)

Fowler was there for a hot sec, too. Yeah.

Kyra K. Dixon (28:20)

Let's move on to Arizona. This could be a really nice off season for the Arizona Cardinals, who I thought were significantly better than I expected a season ago. They've got the fourth most cap space. They do have a ton of free agents up front defensively with a lineup that I thought at times overachieved. They got 41 sacks, so it's not the most in the league, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. And with Jonathan Gannon, of course, coming from Philadelphia before taking the head coaching gig, he knows you need seven or eight dudes up front. That's the Eagles mantra. And just let him go to work. So they need to find the best interior guys, best edge guys they can through the draft. I know I said a lot of this with the Carolina Panthers, but I really believe it. You need two sets of pass rushers in the middle and on the outside that can get it going for them, because I think that offensively they're kind of a fun watch. I don't know how you feel about them, but I, I kind of dig them. They've got a tight end if he ever gets into the end zone, which he finally did last year. You know, Marvin Harrison Jr. We're going to need more consistency out of him, but they've got that taken care of. Kyler, I think is fun to watch. You know, I think that they can make steps to where they can consistently be a wild card team. I really believe that.

Justin Pennock (29:37)

Yeah, I agree. I thought that maybe they would creep, creep their way into it. Last year they kind of fluttered and they were a very inconsistent team last year. I also think the offensive coordinator is going to eventually be getting head coaching Buzz and that probably will happen. As you know they have another off season to upgrade. You know, I think that may even happen by this time next year. Rose, I'm going to name you the seven players that had three or more sacks for the Arizona Cardinals last year. Zavin Collins was a convert from off ball linebacker I believe to an outside linebacker. Dante Stills. L.J. l.J. Collier. Mack Wilson, Dennis Gardeck. Good. But only played seven games last year. I kind of view him as a like a Van Noy slash. Who's the guy from Minnesota who's very good?

Kyra K. Dixon (30:25)

Van Ginkel.

Justin Pennock (30:26)

Yes. I kind of view those guys in a similar way.

Kyra K. Dixon (30:28)

Yeah.

Justin Pennock (30:28)

Jesse Lucada from Penn State, Naquan Jones. Those are the seven players that register three or more sacks for the Arizona Cardinals. Congratulations. If you really know these guys like the back of your hand, you really know ball. But I don't.

Kyra K. Dixon (30:42)

Yeah, yeah. But a bunch of those guys I know Collier Gardek, few guys. I don't know if Stills is like four or five of those guys are free agents as well. So you're you and your team might get to really know them in the offseason. We will see.

Justin Pennock (30:56)

There you go.

Kyra K. Dixon (30:57)

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Justin Pennock (32:15)

Seattle Seahawks have three really good wide receivers. Rose Tyler Lockett, they have JSN and they have DK Metcalf. Why aren't they viewed as more deadly together as a trio? That is my goal for them next year. Find a way and Clint Kubiak. Find a way to have these three should be one of the most lethal combos of 11 personnel in the NFL. But it is year after year the list, especially the last two years that's, you know, jsn, JSM was drafted. The three of these guys on the field should be feared together. Instead, there are times where they're more efficient when one of them is off the field and that is very, very frustrating to me. DK Metaf, it's not like this guy's 30 or 31 or 32. He's still 27 years old. Tyler Lockett, if you want to make the argument that yeah, he's aging and he's aging out a little bit, sure can make that argument. But the presence of the other two should amplify even if Tyler Lockett is taking a couple steps back. So honestly, we should look at as that three. That trio was like, wow, that is a lethal 11 personnel combo. But we really don't. It's only on paper.

Kyra K. Dixon (33:24)

Well, I think your theory is going to be a bit flawed because I think that'll be down to two this season. I don't think Tyler Lockett is going to be a Seattle Seahawk. I think he's going to be one of the cuts. I think he's going to get saved some cap space. I think he will be Playing elsewhere in 2025 is my guess. I think part of it is is that you look at DK and you expect him why isn't he like a 2000 yard receiver and then There's. Right. And then there's games where he gets like 47 yards. What the heck is happening here? Now? Jackson, Smith and Jigbo was awesome last year. There was nothing wrong with his game. He is significantly more consistent than the other two. He might not be as wow as Metcalf, but he is. If I need a catch, I'm throwing the ball at him. I think he's really good. I think he's.

Justin Pennock (34:10)

Yeah, but rose, I mean, DK Metcalf didn't have a 70 yard game until the middle of November.

Kyra K. Dixon (34:16)

Right. That's kind of my point. You know, whenever you. Somebody drafts DK Metcalf in your league, you go, oh, wow, okay. And then you're like, oh, fine. He's had a couple good years where it's really, it's popped. But I don't know. I don't know what they're doing. I think they're. I think they're okay. The Seahawks are okay. I got Tampa Bay up next. And this is really important. The perfect scenario for them is keep hitting on ocs. Dave Canales came down from Seattle, took over, got Baker back on Track, got him $100 million deal, helped them win the division and a playoff game. What does he get? Head coaching gig out of Carolina. Who comes in? Liam Cohen took Baker to an entirely new level. We're talking about 4,500 passing yards, a 40 touchdown passing machine when he had never had more than, I think 28 in a single season, something like that. What happens to him? Well, how it transpired that I can't wait for the 30 for 30 on that one, but he ends up in Duval and so that's where he is. And now it's Josh Grizzard. He gets elevated from passing game coordinator. He's been in the NFL since 2017, so he's not a newbie to this. And he's a smart dude. He went to Yale, he went to my brother's alma mater. So he's probably going to bring that awesome Ivy League offense into the next generation of NFL football, but they need to just keep hitting on those guys so they can keep with the consistency. Right. It's the Bucks that keep. We could talk about the Atlanta Falcons and what the Carolina Panthers are trying to do, and if the Saints can ever get out from their financial woes, the Bucks just keep winning NFC south division titles and giving us entertaining games in the playoffs and we move on from there.

Justin Pennock (36:02)

Yeah, I think everybody's chasing the Bucks. I and I believe in Todd Bowles. If he's in head coach. If he is the head coach, I believe in his defense. I believe in the ability to get that defense right. If you continue to add some more. Add some more experience. So there it was a very young defense. Those young guys are going to get more experience and, you know, they'll make other moves as well. So keep hitting on those ocs. That is the best. It's one of the best things that Todd Bowles has done as head coach. And I'm sure Bruce Arians is kind of helping up top as well, trying to find these guys and promote these guys as well, too. So a lot of, A lot of respect for the Bucks. I'm excited to see what they do.

Kyra K. Dixon (36:37)

All right, Green Bay packers, what do you got?

Justin Pennock (36:40)

Go in the next season where the media is saying you should win the nfc? That's the type of off season I want the packers to have. Doesn't even have to be overtly sexy, but they've had the youngest team in the NFL for the last couple years, two years, and I think it's by far yet they've competed and they've gotten close. And I think some injuries and just bad timing of stuff happening this year, you know, derailed them against the Eagles and they did not have a good game. But that I think the packers goal should be to go into next year where, you know, we're sitting here in August and we're like, you know, oh, who's your, who's your pick for the Super Bowl? Or, you know, who's your pick for a team that's maybe going to even the win the NFC north and go far and be the number one seed? You know, the fact that people don't like to pick repeat winners in, you know, for the Super Bowl. So people don't want to pick the Eagles again to repeat. The Lions, they may lose some people. They lost Ben Johnson. They. They lost their OC and DC so maybe people are going to want to pick the Lions to take a step back. We don't know what the future for the, for the Minnesota Vikings and that quarterback position is Matthew Stafford and the Rams, you know, he may move off there. So I think the packers should want to have an offseason where the media is saying you should win the NFC next year, clearly.

Kyra K. Dixon (37:55)

And obviously, if I were one of the. And I hate even putting this in the universe, but since it's the biggest topic we've got going along with Matthew Stafford, I would go make a play for Miles Garrett. If I were the packers. Yes, they've got the cap space to extend him if they so wish. They've got their quarterback locked up. They've got a ton of talent. I actually think that they would match up very, very well with what the Browns would look for, which would include a player or two, because the packers have some guys, and they're not going to be able to resign all of them. Right. So I think that there would be some guys that the Browns would be interested if they end up trading Miles Garrett. And I agree with you. I mean, they were my super bowl winner a year ago. Predictive. That didn't exactly come to fruition. Yeah, but at least my team made the playoffs, right, Ben?

Trevon Edwards (38:46)

That's right.

Justin Pennock (38:47)

Oh, come on. I'm. I may still pick the Bengals next year. No.

Kyra K. Dixon (38:52)

All right, we got the Minnesota Vikings up next. All right, I want to make sure that I send cases and cases and cases of heel to JJ McCarthy, because the last time I saw him, he was wandering on the sidelines. I want to say it was during the game. There was some game late in the season where we finally Jay McCarthy. And he looked like he was about 150 pounds. You know, I get it. The guy missed the season with a knee injury, but he looked like he was playing freshman football in high school. And I was like, dude, if you're going to be an NFL quarterback, muscle up. He should be having 60 heels a day. Go get your body right because you are going to be the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings. Sam Darnold. Let's not listen to all these outside. Well, you have to extend. No, you don't. Well, you have to franchise, Sam. No, you don't. We saw exactly what Sam Darnold was all about. When the brightest lights were on at the end of the season against the Lions. I think it was the Lions game that I saw McCarthy on the sidelines. All those important throws in the red zone. He missed every single one. And then in the playoffs against the Rams, in a game out in Arizona, he was horrible as well. Sam Darnold. Awesome. Go get your money. I am happy for you. Go be the starting quarterback somewhere else. Because J.J. mcCarthy was drafted, they moved up a space to go get him when he was injured for the year. It was during the preseason Kevin O'Connell came out and said, our fan base and everybody should be excited. We've got our young franchise quarterback in the building. There you go. It's that simple. Just come to that realization. That's all your off season needs.

Justin Pennock (40:37)

Yeah, that. That's the thing where they didn't just draft JJ McCarthy, they traded up for him. And I very much think they were willing to trade up again because they had that second first round pick in Dallas Turner sitting, you know, with that, they wind up taking Dallas Turner with. They had that sitting there just in case, you know, a team like the Giants or you know, a team that was ahead of them maybe wanted to take McCarthy. I think they were willing to trade up again to get J.J. mcCarthy. So I think they had so much conviction behind that draft pick and behind that selection, especially with the team that they have. I right. Like they, that's what they should do as an organization. If you believe in JJ McCarthy, this is what you should do. But still, I have, I have the, that franchise tag is still hovering over your head, that it's, it's just a one year deal. They have the money to do it. They could franchise Sam Darnold and still make other moves in free agency, I think, and still upgrade that team if they really, if they really wanted to. But believe in your process. Believe in what you do. Let JJ play. I would like to see that.

Kyra K. Dixon (41:38)

Four more teams to go. You are up next with the Rams, whom we've already talked significantly about. So what do you have?

Justin Pennock (41:45)

Yeah, I said don't let our love start slipping away. And that's the Vince Gill song where it's like, yeah, you have a good thing going. You know, we, we talked about how close they've been the last two years. They, they play these juggernaut teams that if you look at the Lions roster on paper, if you look at the Eagles roster on paper, these rosters and these teams shouldn't be competing with each other. But you have Sean McVay, you have Matthew Stafford, you have some of the young stars like a Puka Nuku, a Cooper cup was still around. And then the, the young emerging front four on the defense. Why wouldn't you want to kind of expand upon that? Even if it's responsibly like, all right, let's continue to draft well, we don't even need to go out and spend money. Let's give Stafford, you know, his money. Let's keep him happy, but continue to just do what we're doing. I don't know why you wouldn't want to necessarily do that, but the Rams typically like to stay maybe a year or two ahead of this stuff. Maybe they have a QB plan. Maybe that QB plan is, is Sam Darnold. But do not throw Jimmy Garoppolo at my face. Do not do that to Rams Fans, don't let our love start slipping away. Why would you want to lose the momentum that you've built over the last two years if you're the Rams?

Kyra K. Dixon (42:50)

Yeah. I don't get it. I don't get it. There's going to be a lot of heat on that organization if that's the direction they go. Detroit Lions, well, the biggest hope for them is that they turn into the Philadelphia Eagles of 2024 without being the Eagles of 2023. So follow me along here momentarily. In 2022, Philly lost to Kansas City in the Super Bowl. They then lost their two coordinators. Right. Steichen went to Indianapolis and Gannon went out to Arizona. They replaced them offensively and defensively with Brian Johnson and Sean Desai. And those were nightmare moves, just not good enough either side of the football. In fact, the size so bad, they brought Matt Patricia down kind of like two thirds of the way through the year to help clean it up, and it became even a more horrible mess. They ended up losing all those games down the stretch and getting blown out in Tampa in the postseason. They then brought in what, Kellen Warren, offense, Vic Fangio on defense, and who was kissing the Lombardi this year? None other than the Philadelphia Eagles. You fast forward to the Lions situation here. They've just had two great seasons, right? They were disappointed with how things ended last year in the divisional round at home against Washington with all those turnovers, but now they've got turnover on the coaching staff. Ben Johnson goes to Chicago. Aaron Glenn goes to the New York Jets. So you've got to make sure that John Morton, who is the new offensive coordinator, and Kelvin Shepard, who is the new defensive coordinator, aren't like the Philly dudes in 2023 where they're both going to be one and done. Let's keep the consistency rolling. Let's keep the good vibes going. I think it is a true test, but there's a lot of pressure that these coordinators hit and stick.

Justin Pennock (44:29)

Yeah, absolutely. They're. They're good. They're pretty good, those Philadelphia Eagles. And they're going to get better. And that's the messed up part. They're going to get better.

Kyra K. Dixon (44:39)

The Washington Commanders. Last one for you.

Justin Pennock (44:41)

Ah, you know, hauling oats right now you're talking. I talked about don't let our love start slipping away with Vince Gill. How about bring back that love and feeling for the Washington Commanders? Here's what I mean. Coming from a team a little different in 2022, that made a little bit of a Playoff run, won a playoff game, got into the playoffs and thinking, oh, we're just gonna do it again. We're gonna get better. 2022 New York Football Giants. Nobody expected us to be here. And then it didn't happen. Now, I do not expect that same fall for the Washington commanders, but everybody that's just putting it in pen, putting it in pen, not even pencil, that the commanders are going to get better. And you even dropped the line. And I've dropped it before. If this is the worst commanders team that we're going to see in the next five years, in the next four years, why, I think they had a lot of success this year, Rose. They brought in guys like Zach Ertz, they brought in guys like Dante Fowler, they brought in guys like Bobby Wagner, they brought in guys like Jeremy Chin, who all these guys are free agents. And I think what those kind of. Those kind of signings did, even though in the moment and on this show, I was like, why are they signing these veterans? And they're kind of backloading some of these deals. It's like this is a team that's rebuilding. It should be re and should be building through the draft. But what I think those signings did is it provided leadership. It provided a culture that Dan Quinn was trying to set up top. And it was guys like Wagner, like Dante Fowler, who's been with him previously, that they get. They get what Quinn was trying to establish and they get what he's trying to be about. Even Tyle Biotish on the offensive side of the ball kind of knew about Dan Quinn from Dallas. Right? So that's the type of loving feeling that I'm talking about. Maybe more difficult and is easier said than done to replicate. Earth is a free agent, Foul is a free agent. Wagner's a free agent, Jeremy Chin's a free agent. So those are a lot of starters. Some of those key veterans that are free agents, you can look to upgrade through the draft, and they may be better on paper, but in terms of veteran leadership and being a locker room presence, are those guys going to bring the same level of, I guess I'll just use the same word leadership as those guys did. It's a tough thing to replicate. Tough thing to replicate year after year.

Kyra K. Dixon (47:01)

Well, Washington is in great shape, right. They've got their franchise quarterback, who I think is going to be the measuring stick of quarterbacks in the NFC over the next decade. I think he's that good. And they've got the third most cap space in the NFL, only the Patriots and Raiders Two teams that are kind of wallowing in negativity all over the place have more. So Washington pointed in the right direction. They've got the quarterback, they've got the cap space for either hanging onto guys or even upgrading. So they're in good shape. I, I love where they are and they're, I think they're easy to root for, which is something we haven't said for that organization, primarily because of ownership prior to Josh Harris and his crew taking over. And finally we're going to focus on the super bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles. Now you talk about a team that's in great shape, right? They've paid their quarterback, they've paid their receivers, they've paid most of their offensive line. I know Makai Becton's a free agent, but that's okay. We can fill that spot if need be. So we're looking at the defensive side of the football and I think most people would focus on on the edge position. Right. Josh Sweat was a monster in the Super Bowl. Brandon Graham is most likely retiring. Milton Williams played great in the super bowl and is is a great rotational piece around there, I would say. Howie, pay attention to the off ball linebacker of Zach Bond, who also could rush the passer from where he was. You know, a guy who was brought in from New Orleans and it barely did anything on the transaction wire. Right. But when you look at what happened with Philadelphia in the 2023, what was the position defensively that really let them down? It was linebacker. They were a mess. And then this year it was the totally the other side of things. So make sure that you take care of Zach Bond. He's going to want to strike it rich. He even talked about that after the parade. That I can't see what free agency has in store. I wouldn't let him get out the door. I just wouldn't. Particularly with the injury to Nakobe Dean. We don't know how healthy he's going to be coming back. Oren Burke's played very well. Once Dean was sidelined, he too is a free agent. Make sure you take care of sack Bond. Other than that, you're in such good shape right now.

Justin Pennock (49:08)

Crazy.

Kyra K. Dixon (49:09)

I feel great about where this organization is. There aren't a ton of question marks.

Justin Pennock (49:13)

Man, what a crime. Have an all pro linebacker you're paying $1 million to. And yeah, I mean Roquan Smith's getting 20 million, Fred Warner getting 19 term made, Edmonds getting 18 million. Then there's a little bit of drop off to Matt Milano is getting 14.1 million a year. That's where I think Zach Bourne is going to wind up fitting in. I think it's going to be between the 14 to 18 range. It may even push Tremaine Edmonds a little bit because you get, you know, Zach Bond could sit there and say, I'm better than. I'm better than Jermaine Edmonds. But, yeah, you're not touching Roquan Smith and Fred Warner. But what a jump in pay raise, man, to getting 1 million a year. And now we're getting 15, 16, 17. That's awesome.

Kyra K. Dixon (49:54)

Yeah. And the Eagles have a little bit of cap space. I mean, they're, they're in the bottom half right around 20 million or so. But, you know, you can always make numbers work, restructuring.

Justin Pennock (50:03)

They're like this, they're like the Saints. They, you know, Jalen Hurts is in 2029, has a $90 million cap hit and blah, blah, blah, blah. They manipulate it.

Kyra K. Dixon (50:12)

Yeah. By then the, the cap might be 350 million. Who knows? Keeps going up. Good for them. Good for the health of the league. All right, this was a fun exercise. We've covered all 32 teams in the NFL. If they just listen to us, everybody is going to be either 9 and 8 and 8 and 9 next year because we have perfected the formula. Okay, when do you go down to Bobby's wedding?

Justin Pennock (50:33)

I'm going down Saturday. Going down Saturday. And I'm. And I'm coming up, coming back up on Monday. So it'll be. That'll be a grant, a grand old time.

Kyra K. Dixon (50:41)

Okay, this will be exciting for you, right?

Justin Pennock (50:44)

Doing the YMCA and Ian Rappaport. Okay, here we go.

Kyra K. Dixon (50:50)

We're gonna do. We'll give Bobby and his bride a wedding gift right now. The Stafford News will not come out until after he gets. Is he going directly on his honeymoon?

Justin Pennock (51:02)

No. I don't know what, I don't know what they're doing honeymoon wise.

Kyra K. Dixon (51:05)

Okay, well, that, that's enough that talking.

Justin Pennock (51:08)

I'm excited.

Kyra K. Dixon (51:09)

We'll figure it out. Go have a great time. Give him a big hug for us. Congratulate the two of them on behalf of their football today and John Boy Media family for producer. Connor always does an amazing job for Justin Pennock. I am Chris Rose. We will see you next week here on Football Today.

Trevon Edwards (51:25)

I'm Trevon Edwards, co host of the new podcast got greatest of their era with Seth Curry. You don't want to miss our first episode. That's out now. We went live from All Star Weekend and had special guest appearance by Steph Curry himself. Steph talked about what separates the truly elite NBA shooters, so you might as well just count that and get on back on defense. And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s. That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations. That's why we absolutely love it. Listen to Goat Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Bobby Bones (51:57)

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Mel Reid (52:27)

This is Mel Reid, LPGA Tour winner and six time Ladies European Tour winner.

Kyra K. Dixon (52:32)

And Kyra K. Dixon, NBC Sports Report.

Mel Reid (52:35)

And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with Mel and Kira.

Kyra K. Dixon (52:39)

We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower, and iheart.

Mel Reid (52:47)

Wins Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Kyra K. Dixon (52:54)

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of.

Tisha Allen (52:56)

Iheart Women's Sports, you are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Ahlin, former golf professional and the host of welcome to the Party, your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to welcome to the Party that's P A R T E e on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.