Bobby Bones (4:04)

Well, it's really funny that you bring up the interim head coach because like you said it, I feel like it never works out. Since 2019 there have been six interim head coaches promoted to become full time head coaches. Freddie Kitchens in 2019, Lovey Smith in 22, Bulls in 22, Allen in 22, Gerard Mayo 24. The in house like Promotion. Like he wasn't an interim, but he was brought in from in house.

Bobby Skinner (4:25)

Yeah.

Bobby Bones (4:25)

And it appears of those guys, four of them have been one and done. Dennis Allen just got fired this year. The only remaining one is Todd Bowles. Right. So that's a mix of the in house promotion slash interim head coaches. It never works. It really never works. I really don't think Antonio Pierce got a fair shake, but they had the same operation with Rich. Rich Versace in 21 as the interim. He does a great job. People are clamoring for him to get the job. They don't go with him. They go with McDaniels. That doesn't work out. Pierce becomes interim. They want him to say they're like, okay, maybe we should have hired Besace. So let's give Pierce a shot. And my thing with Antonio Pierce is if you're going to promote him as the head coach. Right, give him a chance to win. The quarterback position is just absolutely the most important thing in football.

Bobby Skinner (5:09)

And.

Bobby Bones (5:09)

And he had no one there. I understand that hired GM Tom Tesco brought in Gardner Minshew, but if Gardner, if you think Gardner Minshew is a long term option in a division that has at the time, Patrick Mahomes and Justin Herbert, you're absolutely insane.

Bobby Skinner (5:24)

And the reality is OConnell's better than. Was better than Gardner Minshew too.

Bobby Bones (5:28)

Right. Minshew had his struggles early on. He gets hurt. AOC comes in and he, he does, you know, not the greatest thing, but he's, you know, know, start a bull, which is, I guess, a little bit of a stretch. And then you have to have Desmond Ritter come in when AOC gets hurt too. So the quarterback position was in such a flux in a division that was arguably the best division in the, in the AFC this year. I. You didn't give Antonio Pierce a chance. And I understand Tesco came in with Pierce as the head coach and you want to hire your own guy. But the Raiders, again, making a move off of a head coach. The last head coach for the Las Vegas Raiders, Oakland Raiders, Los Angeles Raiders. To make it through five years with the team, you got to go Back to the 80s and 90s with Art.

Bobby Skinner (6:05)

Shell, who they rehired and because they couldn't find, they couldn't find, no one would take their job. And he was awful.

Bobby Bones (6:12)

I think it was 2006. Art Shell comes in as like 2 and 14. But regardless, they are. It's just so much turmoil. They go back and forth with These head coaches, five head coaches since 2029, since 2011 when Mark Davis took over as owner. I feel really bad for Antonio Pierce, but the Raiders franchise, man, it's such a tough one to be the guy, right? And even like, I guess the best head coach since Art Shell is Jon Gruden, who, you know, left the Raiders to the Bucks. I think Antonio Pierce didn't get a shot. And once again, the Raiders toxicness, if you will, you have him go meet with the media before the news of, you know, making their decision. How do you not know?

Bobby Skinner (6:53)

Yeah, you just should never put the, like you can wait a day and be like, hey, we're still discussing these things. So here's. Forget now we get, I think sometimes in talking about this we get into like, is this fair? Right? Like, is it fair with the patients? Did the Gerard Mayo? No, but they should have done that. They should have fired him. Do you think this is the right decision to keep Telesco and fire Antonio Pierce? Because I actually, I'm usually like, we'll talk about with the Titans, like let's keep the cycle same. But because Pierce was there before, probably didn't want to bring back Pierce, but there was pressure from guys like Max Crosby who maybe someone should tell him that you're not probably not the best GM in the NFL. Mr. Mr. Crosby, I actually agree with it. I don't think Tom, Tom Telesco his draft this year, you know, not, not, not bad. Right? You get Bowers, you know, Jackson, Powers, Johnson in the second round. DJ Glaze started for them, made some mistakes. I think letting Jermaine Illuminor leave was a mistake. He could have still drafted DJ Glaze and developed him as a, as a swing year, but they, they clearly took a QB gap year and then, you know, add added a Wilkins on the defensive side. I know he got hurt, but that's, I think was a really good signing for them. I, I do agree with them getting rid of Pierce because he wasn't, he just wasn't cut out for the job. And I don't think Tom Tesco has had this first year of being a GM where it says this guy needs to be fired.

Bobby Bones (8:18)

Yeah, I think you nailed it on the head because I don't think it's fair. Right. I think you said it perfectly. It's not fair that Antonio Pierce got fired, but it's understandable why he got fired. It's because of a, you know, game management issues. The results this year were really bad. But B, Tom Telesco now gets to pick his own guy. It's and that's as it's not fair. But Telescop, like you said, you're drafting Brock Bowers who sets the receiving record as a rookie. You draft Jackson Powers Johnson, who's a great interior offensive lineman out of Oregon the rest of the draft. Like you said, a little bit. We'll find out. Not as much stock there but Tesco's had a great run with the Chargers like his decade plus run there. I don't think it's fair. The results are bad. We saw this year the defense take a step back too and that's something a calling card of Antonio Pierce getting that defense playing because in 23 when he took over they were number one in points per game, fourth in fifth in turnover margin this year, 25th in points per game allowed, 30th in turnover margin. So there was a big discrepancy in defensive play from when he took over in 23, 24. You have the game management issues. Yeah, I think that makes total sense why you let go of Pierce at.

Bobby Skinner (9:26)

That point and the reason why it was very predictable that because offensive coaching can be more consistently keeping you afloat. Defensive coaching like it matters. I love Patrick Graham. Obviously I have ties back to him with the Giants and talking Giants have met him before. Like I, I really like Patrick him. I think he's one of the best minds in the game but one he wants to leave there. But they they were so over reliant on coaching this year. You know like I they brought in Christian Wilkins on that defense and you have Max Crosby but like even Marcus Epps who's really important for them. Marcus Epps isn't some great player in the NFL. He's just a great fit for what Patrick Graham wants to run and got that defense in place A lot of times they were just they're very untalented team. So it's just that's why it didn't make sense to bring in someone like Antonio Pierce and not have the patience to go with him. But I think they all agree that they're this is a long term thing for them also. I'll say this Dalton. Antonio Pierce wanting Jaden Daniels is the new like okay congrats dude. You wanted the guy who was taking second over in the second overall in the NFL draft. You, you are the greatest talent evaluator of all time. Patrick Graham. No way. I you know who. You know what I think the Giants wanted Jaden Daniels. I think the Vikings would have taken Jaden. I think a lot of teams probably wanted Jaden Daniels. But you weren't picking second. So you didn't. That doesn't mean you're this amazing. And it was just like, yeah, they were at Arizona State together. It's like, okay, well, that should be more reasoning than that.

Bobby Bones (11:01)

I guess the one other thing with that too is that I feel like there have been coaches after the drafts have happened and we've seen these players play where it's like, yeah, I wanted that player that was. But I was overruled at least then Pierce's point is that he did say before the draft that he wanted Daniels and then he was the number one guy, but he absolutely played like the number one quarterback as a rookie this year.

Bobby Skinner (11:20)

Yeah, absolutely. All right, Dalton, why don't you talk to us about something before we talk about the Titans?

Bobby Bones (11:26)

Oh, yes. I mean, we're talking about Tom Tesco with drafting. Speaking of drafting. Cut that. Try that again.

Bobby Skinner (11:32)

No, don't cut that. If you cut that, Connor, I will lose my mind.

Bobby Bones (11:36)

Make them lose your mind. You know who you see in the office speaking of drafting. Bigger. Speaking of drafting, let's talk about DraftKings. That's right, football fans, it is playoff time. We've got some exciting games to look forward to and you can get in on all the action right now at our partners at the DraftKings sportsbook. Right now they're offering all new customers. That's right, all new customers. $200 in bonus bets instantly for just betting $5 when you use the code Football today. That's Code Football today. Stay in on the action and use $200 in bonus bets on DraftKings. Same game parlays for a shot at even bigger payouts. Love the thrill of live betting. DraftKings has you covered. Bet in live progress games as they happen. Make watching the game even more exciting. And if sports betting is not yet available in your state, do not worry. You can still join in on all the fun with DraftKings Daily Fantasy and have a shot to win all the cash prizes. So download the DraftKings sportsbook. Download it. Come on. Right now. Do it right now. As I'm speaking. Download the app, Use Code Football today. Bet just $5. That's $5 on any wager and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. That's Code Football today only at the DraftKings sportsbook. The Crown is mine, Bobby's and yours.

Bobby Skinner (12:59)

All right, let's talk about the Titans and talk about their fuck ups. The Titans have fired GM Ran Karathon after two years. Dalton. They keep Brian Callahan. And in reality, they are just keeping and making the president of football operations, Chad Brinker, the gm. And this is, this is. Tennessee's got a lot of drama going on there. And their owner, Amy Adams. It just seems like it's a mess there that they don't know what they're doing. They have no plan. They're, you know, they're, you know, they're riding by the, you know, they're, you know, living by the, you know, the pants, the seat of their pants. They're just a mess over there. And I think that they probably should have just reset after all this if they want to make changes. But it's just so much, it seems like it's just been a constant power struggle over the last three years, right? They fire Robinson after the whole A.J. brown debacle. They bring in Ran Carth on keep Mike Vrabel, which Mike Vrabel's, I think is a type of head coach that you can do a GM search with, right? Most coaches, you probably couldn't. But he's someone that's like, all right, these two guys are going to be on the same page. Then they fire Mike Vrabel. You find out Mike Vrabel never wanted Ran Carathon and didn't think he was ready for the job. So you hire Brian Callahan, like, okay, well, at least Ran Carthon hired his head coach. Now we're, now at least we're all on the same page. Even if this doesn't work out. Well, it finds out that Chad Brinker, the president of football operations, doesn't really like Ran Carthon, even like his work ethic. And so they fire Ran Carthon but still keep Brian Callahan. This is a mess. And we can talk about Ran Carthon and what he, if he deserves, if he's done a good job or not. But what the Titans have done here is made them a completely unattractive, you know, spot for the job. Because here's the thing, they've already said that Chad Brinker, the president football operations, he has all final say in football matters, even the 53 man roster. He has final say on that. You know, he threw some shade at Ran Carthon's work ethic out the door like this. You're basically being, if you take this job, you're gonna get any blame and lose your chance if it goes bad at gm, but you're not actually gonna be the gm. You're basically taking an assistant GM spot. You know, like this, this is what Brinker said. This is an attractive job for A lot of people, and particularly for those who grew up in the industry in the way that I have, who kind of cut their teeth as a scout and projecting players from college to pro, and they just want to get up and focus on building a roster and not have to worry about running the video department or an analytics team or the equipment room or whatever. Just all they want to do is scout, go on the road in the fall and find football players. Because we've got to get it right. We have to have good football players in the building. We have to get playmakers in the building, particularly at positions that influence the outcomes of games. We've got to get to a point where we have seven difference makers or impact players on our team, which is all fine and well, but you're the one making the decisions.

Bobby Bones (16:00)

You will be.

Bobby Skinner (16:00)

He'll be the final say on draft picks on the roster, on free agency signings. So it's just, this is, this is dysfunction, you know, I think there's so many dysfunctional teams right now in the NFL. Maybe it's. I'm just more aware of it than in years past. But man, the Titans are going right towards the top of that and they fired every, they fired people, you know, every, every year.

Bobby Bones (16:21)

Now, I want to speak on the Titans organization, just as you alluded to. And we're talking about this is as a sporadic of an owner you can have right now. You talked about the John Robinson drama, you talked about Mike Variable being fired, keeping Ryan Carthon, and then now you're firing Ren Carthon and you're promoting Ranker as your president, right. And he's going to oversee your general hiring, your general manager. My biggest thing is ownership, right? When you fired Mike Vrabel, you have that seven game losing streak, you have your losing season. You have to look at that roster and realize, you know what I understand we play in the AFC south and that's a crapshoot of a division, really bad division, but our roster might not be there yet. There's questions at the quarterback position if this. At some point you have to realize you have to reset, right? You go 6 and 11 in 2023, the Texans have C.J. stroud in his rookie year. Looks great. Assuming that they're going to have a. Another pretty good season, which they did. The Titans have to reset that roster, get the quarterback position right, get the offensive line right. They've been doing the last two years. It's Garonski and JC Latham as their top two picks, but prior to that, that offensive line was One of the worst in football. I think they brought back one of their five starters on that offensive line and I know we talk about trenches a lot because it's an important part of the team, but quite frankly, this role is so undesirable. When you are coming into a spot and you're like, okay, you're the general manager, but you're going to have ownership could fire you at any moment and the president of football operations has the final say over ties or anything that's going on. It's something you don't want to work at. It's very sporadic, anytime type of team that has an ownership that you don't know what they're going to do, what their next move is, is an organization you do not want to join. I do want to say on one thing on Rancarthon, right, and we're going.

Bobby Skinner (18:02)

To get a terrible job by the way.

Bobby Bones (18:03)

I don't think so either. And I have some of his moves on here. Like I would say the Calvin Ridley move is probably the biggest kind of looking on what he's done in terms of trades, drafting or signing signing guys. Because that 4 for 92 doesn't look great right now. But again, who's the quarterback you draft Will Levis. And I don't know if you're drafting him thinking he's the guy you use a day to pick on him. But let's be real. Like we, we knew Will Levis, you transfer from Penn State to Kentucky. We didn't think that he should be this top tier prospect.

Bobby Skinner (18:31)

So by the way, the who agreed on that too. It'd be one thing if they threw him under the bus on the Will Levis. Everybody there agreed on the Will Levis selection.

Bobby Bones (18:38)

So you have a, you're, you have the group think of liking Will Levis, right? And that hasn't worked out. But then you signed Calvin Ridley. That doesn't work. You, you, you signed Tony Pollard. That did work out. He had a pretty good year on that.

Bobby Skinner (18:50)

The first year of his three year Pollard worked out. And here's the thing with Calvin Ridley, even though I did not like that contract, right? And I, I though I've, I've compared to the average person, I've been lower on Calvin Ridley than most. He still got you a thousand yards, right? And if you did have that quarterback, you want to bring in something for him to at least like, let's get an idea. Like let's figure out what he is exactly this year and let's not have any, let's not have excuses of why we don't know what Will Levis is. And that's what Calvin Ridley did for them. He was their number one wide receiver. He's a good receiver. I agree giving him that level of player, that contract at that age and some of the question marks about Calvin ladies there but they like, they at least if they do draft a quarterback, Calvin Ridley being on that roster is good for that quarterback.

Bobby Bones (19:34)

You brought in Carthon to kind of write the ship and have that reset and then you didn't give him the opportunity to actually have his vision go into place. That's the thing that kind of frustrates me now. I'm not going to say it's the right or wrong move because again his drafts, Skaranski, Levis, little shake ties, a Spears. Okay, you have some starters there. Latham Sweat. Okay, we're good there in the top end. The back half of those drafts haven't been super great.

Bobby Skinner (19:58)

Brownlee's been a good player for them but the other guys really haven't played Gray Jackson and I, I think if.

Bobby Bones (20:06)

You'Re hiring a gm you have to give them a few years to, to get their, their, their vision set. And they, they did not want to hit the reset button. Amy Adams drunk got very pissed that they went 3 and 14. Second worst record in Titans franchise history since they moved to Tennessee. And now hopefully I hope Amy Adams trunks is listening. I know she will be. You have to give Callahan, you have to give your new gm. You have to give Brinker some leeway here you have the number one pick for a reason. Your roster is not good. Let's go. Let's figure it out. Start from pick one in 2025 and build your team. Trust the people in your building. You have them there for a reason.

Bobby Skinner (20:46)

Which is what they won't do, which is the Titans should have reset. I, I, I think they should have fire, fired Brinker, fired, made Callahan a one and done and, and fired Karathon. But especially now they have the number one overall pick. I feel like that's a very important like I think you need everybody on the same page. Instead now you have, now you're basically hiring a GM to be the assistant gm, which again makes you a very undesirable job because it's not even like every GM job is desirable in a sense because like hey, it's because people believe in themselves, right? Like even if this isn't the best, I believe in myself. I'm gonna be the guy. I'll get two years at least. I'M gonna make it work to where I'm not someone that's getting fired. Well, now you don't even get to have that confidence because you don't know who's, you don't know if you're gonna get to make the decisions that you want to.

Bobby Bones (21:32)

I just think it's really funny that they promoted Ran Carthon, they added the title, the executive vice president to 2024 and then all of a sudden one year later, like, what change? Like what was like the big change? Like that you were the worst team in football. Like was that it? If so that also falls on Callahan said for being the worst team in football. I don't understand how you fire Carthon and not Callahan. It's either both stay or both go. And I just can't believe the Tennessee Titans did it. Oh wait, I actually can because they have been doing it the last two years.

Bobby Skinner (21:57)

Yeah, and the big, the biggest reason for that was Will Levis, who was their decision. You know, they all, I guess Callahan wasn't there for that. But like, you know, Mr. Chad Brinker agreed on that decision. So do you have anything else on the Titans? No. All right, so want to finish off with this because you know, it's, it's too early to like, I, where should this guy go? Where should this guy go? What is like one head coaching team pairing that you're like wanting to happen? As a general NFL fan, I have.

Bobby Bones (22:34)

Two answers I want to say but I'll keep them brief because I, I don't want to go too long on one of these. I think like a realistic option, I think that's going to happen is like Aaron Glenn to the Saints. He's worked there. Gail Benson liked Aaron Glenn when he was there. He's really high regarded in Detroit when he's in New Orleans with Dan Campbell. We're on that same staff with Sean Payton. I think that's something that's going to happen. New Orleans, I don't know if they need like a full on reset, but they have to figure stuff out on both sides of the ball. There might, they might not be in as, as bad of a spot as say a Tennessee Titans or Vegas Raiders. So I kind of think that's a realistic option. The one I really want to see and I don't, I don't know if this would work out. But the NFL is quote unquote, the no fun league. Right. We always make jokes saying about it's no fun league. Let's get a little entertainment, a little drama.

Bobby Skinner (23:20)

Are you Going to say Joan Gruden?

Bobby Bones (23:22)

No, that would. I was thinking about it.

Bobby Skinner (23:24)

Are you going to say Rex Ryan to the Jets?

Bobby Bones (23:26)

Hell yeah, baby. Rex Ryan to the Jets. Listen, I know bringing back a coach doesn't usually work, and I get it. I'm not saying this as a Jets fan saying, bring back Rex Ryan. I think we're going to win a Super Bowl. I'm saying it as a football fan, man, we saw the turmoil and the craziness that happened with the New York jets and Aaron Rodgers this season. I think if you want to top it off, I think Rex is a good coach. I really do. I know the time off will not help him. I think pairing Rex Ryan to the jets, again, the most successful coach they've had over the last 15 years, brought him to the championship game twice. I don't know if he would do a good job. I think he might. But I'm saying I kind of want to see it because I think that would make the NFL more fun. Bring sexy Rexy back to New York. Put him front and center. Put his, his face right on the New York Times and Post. I think it'd be really electric.

Bobby Skinner (24:16)

You know who I want to be the next head coach of the Jets? Ryan Flores, my landlord and the guy that's outside my window right now measuring my windows because he's, he's. They're installing impact windows for hurricanes and I'm looking him dead in the eye right now.

Bobby Bones (24:31)

Well, at least he could brace the storm.

Bobby Skinner (24:32)

He's. He's Italian. His name's Dino. He, you know, he could, he could fit perfectly in New Jersey. So Rex Ryan. I actually, people are dismissing that. If you ask me, out of all the people they've hired that I think has the best, like, has the best odds. Right now it's Rex Ryan. Like if I'm, you know, now if I'm taking Rex Ran or the field, I'm taking the field. But I think Woody Johnson might actually freaking do that. But it'd be a terrible mistake as a football fan and, you know, to just be like, I can't believe they're doing it. It'd be amazing. It'd be a terrible mistake. Here's one I still believe in Trevor Lawrence. They've got a talent like Brian Thomas Jr. There. Their other rest of the receiving room has some talent. You have an Evan Ingram there. I want to see Liam Cohen go to the Jags. Now, the Jags are not going to be desirable because for some reason they've kept. Kept Trent Bulky but And I think they could have been a very desirable place if they did get rid of Trent Balky. But just coaching with that roster, I, I think Liam Cohen would have them as the competing for that division next year. Like, I think that I, they might even, they might even go to my, like, my favorites for that division, depending on how their offseason goes. I would, I would love to see Liam Cohen there. Right. He has some of the college, you know, roots. Spend a year with Todd Bowles, you know, so maybe can pull from that defensively with his mindset. You come for the Rams, you know, with Sean McVay, like, I just, I think Liam Cohen is pro to me, is probably the best head coaching candidate out there. I actually think more so than Ben Johnson because I think the head coach is much more than just scheming of X's and O's. And here's with Ben. As much as I love Ben Johnson, I still have question marks of like, you're allowed to do whatever you want with that Detroit Lions offensive line. Right. You know, like adult. I'm sure you're someone who's, you know, drone up plays on, on, you know, on a pen and paper when you're bored and stuff, and it's all cool and nasty and then you realize, like, you have like five guys out and it's like, how are you going to protect against this? Right where the lines allow you, they give you that opportunity to draw up whatever you want. So I just would. I mean, that's the best quarterback of a team that has a head coaching vacancy is Trevor Lawrence. Right. I mean, Caleb Williams can, can be that. But I'm trying to think like, I think that's the best.

Bobby Bones (26:54)

It's. I'll run it down for you. It's right now Raiders, it's AOC or Desmond Ritter. Jets, it could be Rogers. Probably not. Jacksonville, Lawrence, Bears is Caleb Williams. Saints is probably moving off of Derek Carr. So Jake Hayner, question mark, Spencer Rattler and the Pats is Drake May, which is also another. Yeah.

Bobby Skinner (27:11)

So you can make an argument that Drake May and Caleb Williams are better situations right now, but Trevor Lawrence is the best out of those guys right now.

Bobby Bones (27:18)

Yeah.

Bobby Skinner (27:19)

You have a Brian Thomas Jr. Who allows you to do so much the way he takes the top off of a defense and the size that he has. So I just. I would love to see the offensive mind of Liam Cohen with Trevor Lawrence and Brian Thomas.

Bobby Bones (27:30)

The only thing I would say to that is that one, it would be really funny if the Bucks OC gets Poached back to back years with Canalis, and then now Liam Cohen, potentially two. Going back to the Sean McVeigh tree of coaching. Right. I feel like that's.

Bobby Skinner (27:44)

That's my favorite tree branch and route.

Bobby Bones (27:46)

That you want to go to because it's been working out. See Kevin O'Connell. Kevin O'Connell as the big example right now. But I kind of don't want to see that. And I'm not even saying that as a Colts fan. I like Liam Cohen. Kentucky Rams back to Kentucky now with the Bucks. I. I kind of want him to be successful. And I. I really think with Balky as general manager, you know, bulky somehow. I don't know if it's blackmail or what it is. He just survives situations. He did it with the 49ers. He did it with Jim Harbaugh. If you're able to get Jim Harbaugh, who is an unbelievable coach, a winning coach at any. Any spot he's been in, quite frankly, I don't want Liam Cohen be paired up with this guy because if they're unsuccessful, you know who's getting the blame. And Balky's gonna say, it ain't me.

Bobby Skinner (28:29)

Yeah. And if anything, they'll just clean house with both of them. So. I agree. So, like, I'm just thinking of, like, just this next year, like, I'd love to see Liam Cohen with Trevor Lawrence and Brian Thomas and some of the pieces they have there. All right, that's an episode of Football Today. We all wish Justin well, you know, hope he's. Hope he's doing all right. We will see you on Friday for a preview of the wild card round. We'll see you then. Until then, this is Football Today.

Bobby Bones (28:57)

Hey, it's Bobby Bones.

Matt Castle (28:58)

Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one Mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.