Greg Lott (2:01)

I'm Greg Lott and this is season.

Clayton English (2:02)

Two of the War on Drugs podcast.

Olivia Carville (2:04)

Last year a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports.

Clayton English (2:11)

It's kind of star studded a little bit, man.

Olivia Carville (2:13)

We met them at their homes, we.

Ryan Seacrest (2:15)

Met them at the recording studios.

Olivia Carville (2:17)

Stories matter and it brings a Face to it.

Clayton English (2:19)

It makes it real.

Olivia Carville (2:20)

It really does. It makes it real.

Greg Lott (2:22)

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast Season 2 on the iHeartra app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Clayton English (2:31)

You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio. Yes, we will dive into Shador Sanders and why he fell and some of the surprises, highs and lows of the draft coming up. And tonight, Cavs, Heat, Rockets, warriors watching basketball yesterday over the weekend, the Thunder are going to have a lot of time to rest. Although as a young team you probably don't want to rest too much. The cabs up 30 in the heat Nuggets and Clippers series has been wonderful. Tied to two games apiece, the warriors lead the Rockets two games to one. Knicks got a gift at the buzzer as they beat the Pistons 31 and the Timberwolves over the Lakers yesterday afternoon. They're up three games to one. Magic and Celtics, it's Boston three games to one. Pacers in the Bucks three games to one. And it looks like Dame Lillard's season is over and not sure the extent of that injury, but it certainly looked bad. I did watch a lot of the Lakers game because well, we were trying to see if the Lakers are for real and I think there was a stretch when they won eight games in a row and I said if they continue to play defense and I thought they had depth that they would be able to go against these younger teams. Minnesota is a younger team, Oklahoma City's a younger team, Houston's a younger team. You gotta have that energy and they did not have that energy. JJ Redick didn't make a substitution in the second half and LeBron looks spent. Luca still, I guess recovering from flu like symptoms and you cannot allow Anthony Edwards to get hot, to get confident. He is one of those guys. There's only a couple in the league. When he goes, you're not going to stop him. And he has energy and he gets the crowd into it. He's not afraid of anybody on the floor and you saw that yesterday. LeBron looked tired. LeBron had a bad, bad sequence with a terrible three and then a lazy inbounds pass. They do have a chance at the very end and I got Austin Reaves in the corner. That's why you're in the corner. Get your feet set to take that three pointer, you can win the game. You get the ball out of LeBron's hands, out of Lucas hands, you get it into Austin Reeves hands, he's in the corner, he takes an off balance three. He's not even squared up to the basket. And really that's one of those moments that, that'll come back and haunt them because now they're down three games to one. Here's LeBron James on not scoring in the fourth quarter.

Greg Lott (5:04)

I mean, we had some really good looks. I mean, Luka missed a, you know.

Clayton English (5:09)

A point blank layup, you know, to put us up seven.

Greg Lott (5:13)

You know, I missed a point blank layup to put us up four.

Clayton English (5:16)

You know, we had a couple opportunities.

Greg Lott (5:17)

I don't think fatigue, fatigue had anything to do with that. We just, just missed some, some point blank shots, you know. You know, we were getting to what we wanted to get into and we.

Clayton English (5:27)

Just wasn't able to convert. Okay, if it works, then, you know, not substituting, then we're probably saying, wow, that was a brave coaching decision by JJ Redick, who had this to say, defending his strategy.

Greg Lott (5:42)

Let's just start with Luca got tripped. I mean, that was a blatant trip. He doesn't just fall on his own. We watched it. You know, he gets tripped. So we should have been at the free throw line. You know, that's not an excuse for why we lost, but we got fouled and, you know, we had a chance to go up. You work on the end game stuff, you know, you draw it up and you tell guys very specific things. We didn't execute it, and very obvious we didn't execute it. So I don't know what. That's my only vantage point. You know, we just didn't execute it.

Clayton English (6:12)

Well, you didn't substitute and they look tired. Certainly LeBron did. And, you know, Luca has been under the weather. I just got to figure you put somebody in, just give him a little bit of a breather, because Anthony Edwards and Nas Reed, I mean, they got guys who are just going to be a high motor guy. Luca didn't get tripped. Luca stepped on the defender's shoe. That's what happened. So he didn't get tripped. And so there should have been free throws there. Austin Reeves wasn't ready to shoot a three. Like, look at his, you know, his form. Terrible. LeBron takes a deep three. LeBron with the lazy inbounds pass. LeBron gets called for the foul against Anthony Edwards. That's where fatigue comes in, where you do things and you don't go all the way through. Yeah, you missed the three. The inbounds pass was terrible. And you cost yourself you to keep up with these young teams in the West. You do need a little bit of depth and Lakers did not rely on any of that depth in the second half. So they're down three games to one. But you start to look at this O OKC's got more rest here now. I, I, I thought Golden State would beat Houston. I think Houston's on a fact finding mission of let's figure out now what we do next year because we're not going to win the title. But you know, Golden State, let's see if Jimmy Butler's able to play. Celtics, they're going to put away Orlando. The Cavs looking good against Miami, you know, so there's, there's not a lot of drama other than what we saw with OKC in Denver or the Clippers. And Denver has been great. I mean, that's spirited. That's back and forth, a couple of possessions. It feels like every single game. And some basketball coming up tonight. 8773 DP show we'll get to your phone calls. Best and worst of the weekend. What you saw that you liked, you didn't like. But the timberwolves rallying from 12 down late in the third quarter and Minnesota outscored the Lakers in the fourth quarter. So far, so so far in all these games, Minnesota's outscored the lakers in the fourth quarter by combined 105 to 69.

Sam Mullins (8:35)

Start of the day, start of the day, Start of the day. Start of the day. This is the stat out of the day.

Clayton English (8:48)

Knowing those numbers, that comes back to fatigue to a certain degree, that comes back to depth to a certain degree. You're getting blown out in the fourth quarter by a younger team. Odds to win the title. It's still the Thunder and the Celtics, the prohibitive favorites. Then it's the Cavs. And then after that it's a distant Golden State and the Clippers. By the way, it's so interesting, the number of people, NBA friends that I have, they're like, hey, how about Kawhi Leonard? And I go, no one ever said anything negative about Kawhi Leonard. When he plays, it's just he doesn't play. So yeah, when he does play, I expect him to be great. It's just I don't expect him to play. But he's a wonderful player, but we kind of forgot about him. And then all of a sudden he puts up, you know, 30. And we're like, yeah, about that Kawhi Leonard. I go, yes, he's supposed to be great. Just play more than 37 games this year. That's not asking too much. Okay, Seaton, what's poll question today. Well, we got one here from Marvin. This fun.

Ryan Seacrest (10:03)

We might as well jump right ahead to it.

Clayton English (10:05)

Now that the NFL draft is over.

T-Mobile Representative (10:06)

Who do you want to see in.

Clayton English (10:07)

Hard Knocks this season? O. Cleveland. I mean, right? Cleveland. That's it. It's got to be Cleveland. Cleveland. Yeah. Not even close.

Olivia Carville (10:15)

Right.

Clayton English (10:18)

But that it was one of those stories that I wanted it to go away, but if you're NFL Network and the mothership, you didn't want it to go away because the number of people who stayed tuned to the weekend, you know, the Friday and Saturday of the NFL draft and ratings were up, I think 40% for the second day of the draft or the, no, the final day of the draft. That's unheard of. But it's because of one story, one player, Shador Sanders, and the number of revisionist history experts who've come out to tell us now why Shador Sanders dropped. Where were you guys before the draft? Where, where was everybody before this happened? The only thing I told you was at the end of the show on Thursday, prior to the first round, my source said I don't have a first round grade on him. That was it. And he did say this wasn't. He didn't look at the interviewing or, or how poorly Shador Sanders interviewed. He said, I'm just looking at football stuff because I'm looking at what I saw now. He was at the Shrine bowl and, you know, Shador didn't do any of the drills down there and they felt that he was a little standoffish with that or, hey, I know where I'm going, where I'm going to be drafted. You know, I'll put up with this sort of dog and pony show, but you start to hear these stories that he's doing a FaceTime while he's in an interview with the Giants, with the team meeting, that would be a red flag. But do I think this is a league wide conspiracy? Do I think it's collusion? I don't. Because the NFL is cutthroat. These coaches know they get two years, maybe three at the most, to be able to hold onto their jobs or GMs. Do I think that everybody went, hey, I'm not taking him, I'm not taking him. I'm not taking him. The one team that really surprised me who did not take him was the Raiders because Tom Brady's now in charge. Tom Brady has known Shador Sanders a long time. He has helped mentor him. He knows him and they do have Geno Smith. But I thought if any team who knows him and has the opportunity to draft him, it's the Raiders because of Tom Brady. How many times did they pass on him? And they eventually took a couple of quarterbacks at the end of the draft. That surprised me. I think Cleveland. Look, do I think the owner said we're going to go up and get him for whatever reason? Yes, I do. I think this was a Jimmy Haslam telling the GM and the coach, let's go get him. You know, let's, let's stop this. He has a relationship with Dion. They developed a relationship during the whole draft process. But I do like that landing spot for him. I would not be surprised at all if Shador Sanders starts a game this year, at least one game with Cleveland. In fact, if you said over under one and a half games for Shador Sanders, I might go over. We've seen these guys who are fourth, fifth, sixth round picks now in the last couple of years, they get a chance to start, and I think Shador Sanders will get a chance to start. Did he get humbled? Yes, he did. I thought that that's where he was going to go. It's. It, it felt like that. I certainly felt that he was going to. I thought he was going to go first pick, second round. I just thought that that made sense. But it comes back to a lot of different things that it, it felt like the guys who do mock drafts, all they did is take whatever was told to them and then they just kept spitting it back out. Hey, it's. It's Shador Sanders. He might go three, he might go two. I mean, we put the over under five and a half. I didn't know it'd be five and a half rounds. Vegas had it eight and a half. We thought he was going to go to the Saints. And then all of a sudden, this is where you get the professionals to look at a draft prospect, not guys who are mock draft people. Okay. A lot of that's for clicks. And there's a mock draft for next year already out. It's big business. We understand all of that, but when you get the guys whose jobs are to analyze this, that their job is like, the mock draft guys don't get fired. If a scout screws up, the scout gets fired. That's where you get real intel. Now, it takes a while to get that intel. I'm still working on some Cleveland Browns intel, but, you know, that's where you get guys who come in and go, hey, I see this or I don't see that, you know, his arm strength, it's not great. Everybody kept saying the same thing. He's tough and he is. I put him third on my Heisman ballot. He was tough in an offensive line that wasn't very good. He did have a bailout, certainly with a one great receiver and a very good receiver. Didn't have a running game at all. But some of the things that were said. Nick Baumgartner of the Athletic, he was talking about how Shador Sanders, he basically said to teams, look at the tape, I don't need to be working out. And he goes on to say in his article on the Athletic, you cannot simply declare yourself something you aren't and hope nobody checks on it. Todd McShay had some things to say about this, about what happened with the Giants. It didn't go well. Frustration with him not being prepared. Basically didn't want to go through what everybody else went through. And then the Giants traded up to take Jackson Dart from Ole Miss. Baumgartner goes on to write, the reality here is that Shador Sanders is a good football player, a quality prospect and someone who could eventually turn into a functional starter so long as he's surrounded by talent and a strong offensive line. But the questions about his arm talent size, pocket processing and general overconfidence were very real. All right. Yet another draft analyst who said personality nitpicks wouldn't be an issue if he had put together a better tape. One evaluator said that Sanders would have gotten a third round grade in a year with better QB prospects. Now I do believe that. I think he was elevated because there weren't great quarterbacks and Cam Ward would have been the fifth or sixth quarterback last year. So where would Shador Sanders had been on that list? He might have been the eighth or ninth quarterback taken. There were other quarterbacks the teams felt more comfortable with. Jackson Dart is probably a better athlete than Shador Jackson Dart is a really good quarterback. Thought he was going to be a first round pick. Did I think Shedeur was going to fall this far? Absolutely not. But you go back to how good are you? And you know, there's a sliding scale of productivity. And then you have this sideshow like Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow was not going to be brought in by teams and they would say this. They didn't want more attention for their backup quarterback than their starting quarterback. So it does happen. Cam Newton, same way. I was just surprised. I thought that in. In a draft that didn't have great quarterbacks, maybe somebody's going to take a chance. Now, Dylan Gabriel at Oregon is a better athlete than Shador Sanders. He has more passing yards and more passing touchdowns than anybody in the history of college football. He's a Russell Wilson type, left handed and very athletic. Cleveland takes him. So that quarterback room is going to be interesting. You're going to have Joe Flacco in there be like a daycare. You know, he's in there and he's 40 years of age and he's got all these younger guys in there. Remember, they traded for Kenny Pickett, like, and you still have Deshaun Watson. It's so Brownsian to do what they did. They congratulations. They did a wonderful job. But I do think Shador Sanders went to the right place for him because he can prove himself. They don't have proven talent in that room except for Joe, but Joe's 40 and a man. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows@foxsportsradio.com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

Ryan Seacrest (19:16)

Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kovino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

Clayton English (20:12)

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Greg Lott (22:15)

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Narrator (22:46)

On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am, a red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned in a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open. No traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found found except for a cassette tape lodged in the player. On that tape were 10. Vile.

Sam Mullins (23:15)

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Narrator (23:18)

Grotesque.

Olivia Carville (23:19)

Oh my God. Oh my God.

Narrator (23:23)

Horrific stories that to this day have been kept restricted. You feeling this too? A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Clayton English (23:45)

Let's bring in Kevin Clark, host and analyst for Omaha Productions, ESPN and host of this Is Football podcast here. What do you think Bill Belichick was really saying there, Kevin?

Olivia Carville (23:56)

The same thing he's been saying for 25 years. Nothing. I think he's trying to treat CBS this Morning and a lot of these other places like he did the New England media. And it's not going to work. Like, that's the problem in college. You have to go out and recruit. You have to win over the fan base. And he hasn't done that. Like, I think I saw some UNC beat writers saying, like, there was no access during spring, like, this is not the Patriot way anymore. So what was he saying about Kraft specifically is I don't think he likes him very much, but I think that you have to address that because you have to talk with the elephants in the rooms at this point. When you're, when you're selling a book, that's when you address the elephants in the room.

Clayton English (24:29)

Yeah, he's just such a bad interview, even when he's trying to be. I'm sure his girlfriend is saying, bill, let's go over scenarios. And she would play the role of interviewer. Right. And she would ask him questions. I mean, I'm guessing like she's really involved in this, you know, this whole North Carolina situation here.

Olivia Carville (24:47)

She seems to be a bad publicist. That seems to be my, my read on the situation is that she seems to notice, have a grip on what questions are inbounds. Also, like the don't. We don't talk about the relationship thing. It's already out there. How they met. I mean, you can, you can do this. You can give, give the people what they want. Give us a little bit of we met on an airplane. It was love at first sight, the whole thing. This is not hard. They made it Hard.

Clayton English (25:09)

Well, now I really want to know. They made like, wait a minute. What, what else happened here? It's like when Tiger woods and his new girlfriend send out a picture.

Olivia Carville (25:19)

Yeah.

Clayton English (25:19)

And then they say, respect our privacy.

Olivia Carville (25:21)

Respect our privacy. Yeah.

Clayton English (25:22)

I did respect your privacy until just now.

Olivia Carville (25:25)

I no longer respect your privacy.

Clayton English (25:28)

All right. The draft in Green Bay. Give me the second biggest story of the draft.

Olivia Carville (25:35)

Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, from a college football perspective, you guys mentioned earlier, Quinn Ewers cost himself about $4 million. Okay. Like that. That's an important thing. He could have gone to Miami and the Carson Beck roll. There's so many schools, Oregon, who are looking for a veteran presence. So for me, that drop was, was significant. But, you know, when I look at, at, at, at some of these teams that are building, like, I think Washington knocked it out of the park. And I don't see a scenario in which they're not in a Super bowl in the next five years. Because I look at Josh Connerly, I look at Treos, who I think is really good cornerback, the. The receiver they got from Virginia Tech, who's a great athlete. Like, I'm looking at some of these teams, I'm just seeing a pathway here. I think the commander's doing everything right. They're get the stadium here today. I guess they're going to have the new RFK site there. So I think the second biggest thing aside from Shadow Sanders is just some of these teams are kind of building into a Super bowl now. I think Cam Ward is probably the second biggest thing because I think he's a Mahomes like talent. I'm the one guy who's going out there and saying, by the way, the number one overall pick, he's pretty good. I know we don't want to talk about the number one overall pick, but I think he's phenomenal. I went to Miami. I saw every snap from him, I promise. People say, oh, you're a Miami homer. Nobody's hated watching Miami more than me over the past 20 years. Okay, I'm the opposite of a homer. But I just saw what he was able to do on a snap to snap basis. And he's able to do. Steve Young was on my show a couple of years ago and he says about Mahomes, I think about a lot. He said everyone talks about the Superman, but what makes Mahomes Mahomes is the Clark Kent. You know, the basics, the hitting the guy over the middle, taking that check down. Cam Ward does both of those things really well. I Think that's what's going to make him special. I think Tennessee is not going to have the same infrastructure that Kansas City had. So if I say he's Mahomes, it's not going to be the same path because there's no Kelsey, there's no, there's no Tyreek Hill, there's no Andy Reid. But I think you're going to see instant, instant success from, from Cam Ward. And I think he's going to change the Titans franchise. That, that franchise. He's a little juiced and I don't know if you've noticed. Yeah, there's nothing going on there.

Clayton English (27:32)

The situation with the Browns in Jacksonville with that trade.

Olivia Carville (27:35)

Yeah.

Clayton English (27:36)

Okay. We can take out the talent. You know, we'll start with that and just say. And by. It felt by a lot of indicators that Jacksonville did an incredible job. But, but Cleveland did an even better job of fleecing Jacksonville.

Olivia Carville (27:55)

I agree.

Clayton English (27:56)

So you think Jacksonville won it?

Olivia Carville (27:59)

They both, they both won because the Browns are looking at this and saying, deshaun Watson set us back probably more than the four years on the contract. Okay, that's, that's important. They're not trying to win now. They, if they were trying to win now, they would, they would have drafted Travis Hunter and gone from there. They wouldn't have drafted Dylan Gabriel in the third round. They wouldn't have drafted Shira Sanders in the fifth round. They understand where they are. The Jaguars, again, you talk about a franchise that needs some juice, needs a little, you know, in market kick in the butt. You got to start there. What's going on in Jacksonville? They have a new coach, they have a new gm. For me, when you have a special talent. The first press conference I was ever at as an NFL journalist was Mike Shanahan right after the RG3 trade. And he asked a rhetorical question. He said, what did the Broncos give up for John Elway? Nobody knew. You know why? Because nobody cared. Nobody, nobody. Nobody was saying, oh, they over.

Sam Mullins (28:45)

They added, oh, I can't believe they.

Olivia Carville (28:46)

Added another second round pick. No, they got a franchise cornerstone. And so with Travis Hunter, if he's the guy you think he is, you can't. There's no overpay for that.

Clayton English (28:56)

But why didn't Cleveland look at the Ohtani of the NFL and knowing that they needed to take away from this desean Watson situation and you get a, you get a makeover right away.

Olivia Carville (29:09)

I agree in theory, but I think they're looking at this roster. It's an aging roster that was built around the desean Watson thing working. Okay. And I think they have some self awareness that that's not going to be the case anymore, that the aging roster, some other guys, it's not ready to win now. So take the Jaguars pick, which is probably going to be a pretty good pick next year, and start building in a different way.

Clayton English (29:30)

Why not. Why not trade Miles Garrett or why extend my.

Olivia Carville (29:33)

Would have. I probably would have. I mean, I. Listen, you're. You're putting yourself. You're doing something very dangerous now, which is putting yourself in the head of the Cleveland Browns and saying, let's make some good decisions. They haven't done that for 30 years. Okay. So it's really hard. Like, the Dylan Gabriel pick to me was one of the dumbest of the entire draft. What are you doing at that point and why, you know, we can get into this thing. But. But why you would take Gabriel, who would have dropped a handful more rounds. He's a career backup. When you're looking for a starter, are you now going to trade for Kirk Cousins? You have Joe Flacco in the room. None of this really makes any sense. It's like. And maybe this is just the product of ownership, Dan. It's like there's five different decision makers in Cleveland and they're all. They all get to make alternating decisions and it's like they never met before.

Clayton English (30:18)

Well, you can tell if I look at body language of coach and gm, when they made. When they made the pick with Shador. Yeah. That came from up above.

Olivia Carville (30:26)

Yeah.

Clayton English (30:27)

Because it almost felt like, oh, my gosh, let's draft him and then let's trade up to draft him when you could have had him. I just. It was Brownsian. I mean, it was Brownsian. It was truly Brownsian there. But I do think it's a great place for Shador to go to. I agree, because I think he'll play. I think he'll start a game this year.

Olivia Carville (30:52)

He's going to be instantly better than Dylan Gabriel.

Sam Mullins (30:54)

So.

Olivia Carville (30:54)

So that's the first hurdle to clear. Dylan Gabriel's not very good. Kevin's defense, he can tell him where to go with the ball. We know that Shador can be accurate. We know he can. I mean, my thing about Chadur, I didn't think he was top five level, but what I did think was if you put a lot of those prospects behind the Colorado offensive line last year, they wouldn't have looked as good as Shadow.

Clayton English (31:13)

But if I give them the receivers that Colorado had, you're going to look.

Olivia Carville (31:17)

Pretty good at Least one. Yes, I agree with that. You know, when I look at the shadow situation, I was texting people in the league in the fourth round and in the fifth round and I was saying, why don't you guys just take sh. I'm talking about teams with good quarterbacks where it's not going to be a drama like hey, this, this, this first round talent is dropping. This seems like value. And they said there were two problems. Number one, they didn't do any work on the guy because they didn't think this was going to happen. Right. So like if you're a team with a, a, a franchise starter already, you didn't even meet Shudder Sam. You don't have his phone number. I mean, apparently everybody has his phone number because of Jax Ulbrich. But you know, you just get into a situation where they, they'd be flying blind. So that, that was, that was part of the problem. But then the other problem is they just didn't want to disrupt their quarterback room. They don't know. I mean there's a lot of ways to get shadow level production, especially in the fifth round or in the mid rounds without SportsCenter coming to your, coming to your camp on day one.

Clayton English (32:11)

Was this collusion?

Olivia Carville (32:12)

I don't think it was. I don't think it was. I think it starts with the most basic obvious thing which is there were only a handful of quarterback needy teams and they didn't think shadow was that good. I think that, I think it starts there and then it was a cascading series of effects. I do think that there's a lot of cowardice in the NFL where they, they just don't want distractions and I think that is more powerful than any sort of whatever. I, I don't think there was exact collusion where they were staying away from him.

Clayton English (32:36)

He's Kevin Clark. He is host and analyst for Omaha Productions in ESPN and his must listen to podcast. This is football and I'm starting. You know, I was just trying to figure this out that Tom Brady who's running the Raiders has been around Shador Sanders for a long time.

Olivia Carville (32:54)

Passed on him.

Clayton English (32:55)

Passed on him. And they could certainly use another quarterback in there. I know you extended Geno Smith. That was the one that stood out more than anything because Pittsburgh to me, you know, they take Will Howard and, and I like that pick. I think Will Howard can play in the NFL. But that really led me to believe they really are hoping that Aaron Rodgers is coming to town.

Olivia Carville (33:17)

He has to. He has to. I mean it sounds like you know, Art Rooney, the owner, a couple weeks ago in Palm beach at the owner's meeting said that that's the expectation there. I don't think Steelers ownership really talks out of turn. So I assume that there's indications that he's coming. They're screwed without him because I, I last week I heard some of the insiders say, well, you know, they, they're really comfortable with Mason Rudolph. Nobody is comfortable with Mason Rudolph. So I knew that that was a tell that Aaron Rodgers is probably coming.

Clayton English (33:43)

How honest when you know somebody's being honest with you, you know, you talk a lot of coach and GMs and whoever. Like I have, I have three different sources in the NFL and I've had them for probably 20, 22, 23 years. But you know, I'm fed a lot of information sometimes and you know, I've.

Olivia Carville (34:04)

Been used before in the draft season. It's really hard because remember a scout might tell you this is the best guy in the draft, but he may not have the power to do it or you know, somebody from the I'm just giving an example, right? We're talking about ownership coming from above and saying you have to take Shooter Sanders. If that was a scenario. Well, five minutes before that you could have gotten a text from someone with decision making power in Cleveland saying, nah, we're not going to do it. And then the owner does it, right? So predicting what's happened in the draft is a fool's errand. It's really hard because of just the different things. And no one thought Chadur was going to happen. By the way, like everybody's talking about, oh, people are saying, oh, I saw this coming with Shadow. You didn't. Unless you said it was the biggest drop in history, incoming. Then you didn't see it coming, like saying, oh, he might drop to the second round. We didn't drop to the second round. He dropped to the fifth round. So you didn't see it coming. Predicting what's actually going to happen on draft night outside of the the first pick. You know, I had Brian Callahan, the Titans coach, on my show a couple of weeks ago and he started talking and he said, you know, I coached Joe Burrow when he was a rookie and I went back and I watched the zooms that we had because it was Covid. So they recorded it just to get a sense of what a rookie quarterback would be like. And so this is like March 15th. And I'm thinking, you know, Brian, you're probably not doing that if you're going to Draft Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter. So I think you may have indicated where you're going. So there's tells like that obviously, but I think, you know, you kind of have to just guess. I mean you mentioned you have sources where you have years and years of goodwill built up. You know they're not going to BS you. They know you know that they're not going to use you. I think newer sources or sources with something, hey, you know, the biggest thing always is when a team is trying to get rid of either a player or a coach and they're going to, I think it's. LARRY David voice. They're going to foist you and they're trying to like. So I had, I won't say the coach, but I had a GM text me a couple of years ago about their defensive coordinator and he said this DC would be amazing for the USC job. And I was like, no he wouldn't.

Sam Mullins (35:59)

What are you talking about?

Olivia Carville (36:00)

And then a couple, a couple months later the DC moved on. But it's like I think they wanted me to put out so and so would be a perfect fit for usc. And then USC calls them and then their problem is solved. Whether they had a multi year contract or they just wanted a clean ending, whatever it is, that's when you look at it and you go, you have to have internal. You have to be your own harshest critic or else you end up sending a tweet saying so and so would be a great fit to be a Trojan.

Clayton English (36:22)

All right, give me the hot NFL team this year.

Olivia Carville (36:26)

I love Denver. I love Denver. And I know, wait, that's, that's two.

Clayton English (36:31)

Loves like you love, love Denver.

Olivia Carville (36:35)

I think Denver, when I look around I think about the Eagles and how one day we woke up and they had the best roster in football and they were undeniable and probably the super bowl favorites next year. Right? It's because you kept stacking talent. When I look at Denver, I think in maybe next year they're going to be close to that level. I think this year they're going to be a double digit win team that I think probably will get super bowl buzz going into the season and they're probably a year away from that. But I love what Bonix is able to do with Sean Payton. I don't know what he would have been able to do behind Colorado's offensive line, but that's not the question here. And then I think that the way they've built the trenches again, Eagles, Eagles wise, the offensive line is great. The defense keeps Stacking talent. Baron was an awesome pick in the first round. RJ Harvey was a reach for ucf. But again, Sean Payton knows what to do with running backs. He loves contact. Yes. Speed. So I'm looking at this Denver team and I'm saying why can't this team compete right now? Now, to answer my own question, the Chargers are also going to be quite good. I loved their draft and I love Justin Herbert. I think Denver though is. Is a half step ahead right now in that division with obviously the Chiefs being number one. I. I think all three of them have the chance to be really good this year.

Clayton English (37:45)

But Vegas's hot team, the Chicago Bears. More money bet on the Bears in the last 24 hours.

Olivia Carville (37:53)

So I see that. I think that they answered so many of the so. So Caleb Williams last year had the most unblocked pressures and sacks in the history of next gen's death. So that's like a decade of data is that no one had gotten a guy in their face where literally the offensive line had no idea what they were doing. And I look at him at it as maybe the dumbest plan in history because. Or modern football history. Caleb Williams had one flaw. He held onto the ball too long. So what do you do if you're the Bears? You give him one of the worst offensive lines in football. How is that going to work? How is that ever going to work? It didn't. He got killed. And they were 64 sacks last year. And so they automatically go out and they probably overpay for some guys. But that's okay. Again over. We don't. We're not cosplaying gmc. We just need this to work right. If we're the Bears. And so the front is settled. The defense is going to be better. I liked what they did. I thought Luther Burden was a really good value pick in round two. Addressing tight end. Maybe you go to tight ends with Cole Comet. I see that. I just don't think they're an NFC contender. Okay. I see them being much better. I see Caleb Williams not getting sacked 64 times. I think they'll probably make the playoffs. I just don't see them in the same way the Broncos do. Which is. I think in a couple of years the Broncos are going to be super bowl contenders.

Clayton English (39:12)

Thanks for visiting. We appreciate it.

Olivia Carville (39:15)

I met you when I was 13 years old at the Tampa Super Bowl. It's great to be here again.

Clayton English (39:19)

Was I nice to you?

Olivia Carville (39:20)

You were very nice. You're going to lose respect for me. I was such a sports media dork that I was at a hotel. I figured it out that somehow you guys were all there. So I just hung out at the elevator bank meeting sports center anchors, and I got everybody's autograph. And the only one I can identify now is Eisen because he signed it with his catchphrase, which was, you got it. So it says, rich Eisen, Kevin, you got it.

Clayton English (39:42)

Okay, so there you go.

Olivia Carville (39:44)

So thank you for being nice to me.

Clayton English (39:45)

Do you want an autograph now?

Olivia Carville (39:48)

Yes, I do.

Clayton English (39:49)

Okay. Thank you, Kevin. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.

T-Mobile Representative (40:00)

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Greg Lott (40:32)

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24. 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

Margie Murphy (41:01)

In 2020, a group of young women in a tidy suburb of New York City found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

Olivia Carville (41:10)

Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts on my body parts that looked exactly like my own.

Sam Mullins (41:21)

I wanted to throw up.

Margie Murphy (41:23)

I wanted to scream. It happened in Levittown, New York. But reporting the series took us through the darkest corners of the Internet and to the front lines of a global battle against deepfake pornography.

Sam Mullins (41:36)

This should be illegal, but what is this?

Margie Murphy (41:38)

This is a story about a technology that's moving faster than the law and about vigilantes trying to stem the tide. I'm Margie Murphy. And I'm Olivia Carville. This is Levittown A new podcast from iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Narrator (42:05)

On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am, a red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned at a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open. No traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found, except for a cassette tape Lodged in the player on that tape were 10. Vile.

Sam Mullins (42:34)

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Narrator (42:37)

Grotesque.

Olivia Carville (42:38)

Oh my God. Oh my God.

Narrator (42:42)

Horrific stories that to this day have been kept restricted from the public until now. You feeling this too? A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Olivia Carville (43:05)

We ready to fight?

Clayton English (43:06)

I'm ready to fight. Is that. I thought it was. Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. And that's what we are doing on Fighting Words. We're not gonna let anyone silence us.

Olivia Carville (43:31)

That's the reason why they're banning books like yours. Just that's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history. Any history that challenges the whitewashed norm.

Clayton English (43:40)

Or put us in a box. Black people have never ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Tim Legler, one of the great shooters in NBA history, on the call for Celtics magic on Friday as well as the Knicks and the Pistons game four. And he has a podcast, All City NBA Podcast. We'll talk about that in a moment. Legs, good to talk to you. Before you knew the end result. If I would have told you the Lakers will not substitute in the second half of the Minnesota game, they will play their starting five and nobody else will come in on the road after they had what, one day of rest in between games three and four, you would have said what?

Sam Mullins (44:38)

No shot of winning the game? Because if you told me, first of all, if you tell me something like that, I would say, well, that's not going to happen. It's impossible. It's never happened. I've never heard of such a thing. That's. That would have been My first answer. So this is a crazy hypothetical you're throwing at me, but if then I thought to myself, well, you know, maybe this could happen, I would think they must be in dire straits. There has to be some reason why you'd be pushed to an extreme measure like that. And anyway, you slice it against a team as good defensively as Minnesota is capable of being, to think you got five guys played 24 straight minutes, no physical break, no mental break. It's just not the formula for success. I think there's a lot of criticism coming JJ Redick's way. I think it's. I think a lot of it is justified. It's not just the substitution patterns either. I have a lot of problems with that. The design of that inbounds play late, where LeBron turned the ball over. I don't, I don't understand what they were trying to accomplish by the design of the play, the spacing of the play, and then just a terrible decision by LeBron to throw it to the wrong hand for Luca. But. So I think there's a lot of criticism that's, that's levied against J.J. redick right now. And if they don't come back and win this series, I think he's going to be dealing with that.

Clayton English (45:55)

Yeah, because I'm looking at the mistakes they made. They blew a 13 point lead. Minnesota's at home. That's a young team. Any team that has Anthony Edwards, you know, is not going to stop. And some of these mistakes, LeBron takes a really deep 3. That, to me, was a bad shot. Even if he makes it, it's still not a high percentage. The inbounds pass is lazy. Then, you know, he commits the foul on Anthony Edwards. To me, a lot of that. And you know that Luke is not 100%, but you're not bringing any of those guys out. I. And, and you still had a chance to win. I don't think that Austin Reaves was ready to take that shot in the corner, but I mean, the, the margin of victory and defeat at this time of the year, I mean, I was just surprised at how the Lakers played down the stretch.

Sam Mullins (46:43)

Dan, listen, you could go right now, anywhere in the country and watch it probably, you know, a middle school basketball game where, you know, the five starters are infinitely better than the kids on the bench and they're going to sub. This is a situation with NBA players, you know, millions and millions of dollars committed in salary to the guys that are wearing Lakers uniforms sitting there. And you can't go to any of Those guys, an entire second half of a playoff game with really your season on the brink. Not, you know, I'm not going to completely write them off because they've got Luka and LeBron, let's face it, at the end of the day, they've got two of the most special players in the league. So this is one situation where three, one, I don't, I'm not ready to put this to bed yet. Think they go home and win game five, you know, and now you're getting to a situation. Can you win a road game to force that game seven back in your place? I don't know. But to think that you couldn't have the faith or confidence to go to anyone else on your roster besides those five guys, it's really mind boggling to me. And does it play into the decision making? Possibly. Does it play into that three you mentioned by LeBron? I'm glad you brought it up because. Because I should have. I was remiss in not mentioning that too. That's a horrible shot. You're seven seconds on the shot clock. He takes a 30 foot three and if you watch the possession, nobody moved. There was not a single cut screen, no action whatsoever. They came down, held the ball for a little bit, swung it to LeBron and he just pulled it after he had played 23 consecutive minutes. And look, he's better from the three than he's ever been. That shot was Steph Curry range. That's not his wheelhouse. So was that a fatigue thing? Physically, mentally, Possibly. The, the inbounds play, you know, like I said, the construct of the play was terrible. Three guys breaking to the ball within 10ft of each other with their defender. So you got six bodies within 10ft of each other, all coming to the corner of this by the sideline, where the half court acts as another barrier. If you catch it in the front court now, they could have run someone into the back court. That would have been nice. Or at least have one guy breaking to the ball so he's got an opportunity to just push off and catch it. There was, it was so congested. And then LeBron makes a terrible decision that the past has to go to Lucas. Left hand. Jade McDaniels is on Lucas right side. He's, he's hedging him over there and LeBron throws it to that side. So is that a mental fatigue? He's too good a player, he's too smart to make that mistake. So I don't know what all played into it, but you can't tell me that it couldn't have factored in when those guys hadn't had a break physically or mentally for an entire half of a must win game. That, that's shocking to me.

Clayton English (49:27)

What did you see on that last play with the Pistons and the knicks with Hardaway Jr. You know, my vantage.

Sam Mullins (49:34)

Point calling the game, Dan, was tough because it was across the court, all the way in the corner to my right, all the way across the court with a lot of bodies over there. So the shot goes off and I could, we couldn't see it until we saw the replay. Once I saw the replay, I believe I said on the air, my last comment on it was, you know, there's no doubt shooters typically are going to get that call. But then I went on to say, but at the same time, there was almost nothing called in the second half of that game on shooters, very little. I mean, the third quarter of that game I made a joke that you would have a hard time convincing me that Navy SEAL training was more arduous than getting to the rim in the third quarter of that game because they just. There was nothing was playing. By the way, I love it. Mean that was the 90s was when I played. I love that style of basketball. Now here's the thing though. On the shooter from a 24 foot shot, you've got that guy's got to be protected more than a driver. And so to get bumped on your shooting side absolutely enough to make it the shot unmakeable and should have been called. And as you can see, the officials immediately said it. They didn't need to wait for the two minute report. They said it. Once they got to the locker room and saw the play because they wanted to immediately put it out there, we blew it. Now that doesn't help Pistons fans because you'd have a 2, 2 series going back to New York and the Pistons have played very well in Madison Square Garden in this series.

Clayton English (51:01)

Talking to Tim Legler, ESPN NBA analyst, former NBA player. When you won the three point shooting contest, Larry Bird, was he out of the NBA?

Sam Mullins (51:11)

Yes, he was.

Clayton English (51:13)

Okay. How do you think you would have done against Bird?

Sam Mullins (51:18)

Well, I hate to say it, but if Larry Bird walked in the locker room and guaranteed a victory in that competition and I was sitting in the locker room, I probably would have had something to say back to him. Listen, I think everybody, everybody that.

Clayton English (51:31)

Are you sure you would have said something at the time to Larry Bird?

Sam Mullins (51:35)

Probably not. He was my child, he was my idol in high school, college. So probably you're probably right. No, but it may have made me. It may have made me even more because of how badly, you know, how much better the story would have been then, you know, I was just so happy to win it and know that my name was going to go on a list with that guy, like, of guys that have won the competition. So. Yeah, but like, I think anybody has participated in that probably believes that they would beat anybody that's ever done it.

Clayton English (52:08)

How many teams can win the title?

Sam Mullins (52:12)

Well, I said going. I said, going in to the postseason or not the postseason with. About a month ago, I said, one of these three teams is winning a title and you're not going to convince me. It could possibly be anybody else. That was okay. Okc, Boston and Cleveland. To me, those three teams lapped the field this year in the NBA. They were that much better than everybody else. The one X factor out there was the Lakers, because, you know, adding this player and what that ultimately was going to look like. And their defense took major strides. Before that LeBron injury late in the year, their defense had taken major strides. They were figuring out how to protect Luka. And then you just have two guys that have an answer for everything on the court offensively, with their scoring, their playmaking, and their iq. So I thought, you know, I can't rule them out. To me, those other three teams have been so much better than the rest of the league. You rarely see it to that extent. So Oklahoma City for me has been the best team I've seen all year. When they play their best, they are the best team. But look, Boston is obviously right there. And then the Cavs have been great. I just don't know if the Cavs ultimately will be able to get past Boston.

Clayton English (53:24)

Let me go back to the Lakers situation. It just dawned on me, you know, here's LeBron, twilight of his career. They don't have draft picks there. I don't know where they are. Salary cap wise, you got Luca for one more year. Could you see a scenario where Luca looks around and goes, do I want to stay in this situation if LeBron's not there and you got kind of the group you have, and maybe you add something, but is it a foregone conclusion? Luca is going to stay in Los Angeles?

Sam Mullins (53:57)

I definitely could see that scenario. And the main reason for that, he was thrust into it. He says, in a situation where Luca got to free agency and said, man, LA is where I want to be, you know, that's where I want to go, like LeBron did. And then now you Figure, well, he's going to stay there the rest of his career and finish it out because he chose that at that stage of his career. Luca didn't choose that. Luka was. I'm not. I'm still not sure. Luke is over the shock of being traded. So he was thrust into it, making the most of it. But when it's all said and done, does he a totally love playing with LeBron? Who knows? Does LeBron really love playing with him? I don't know that either. I don't know how long that's going to last. When is LeBron going to. Going to hang him up? I don't know. But now Lucas envisions himself going forward in the lakers organization, but J.J. redick, who knows how he feels about that, really, he hasn't had a large enough sample size, and he didn't choose any of it. So when you're forced into a situation. No, really, internally, the conversations he's having, you know, with the people in his life that care about him. So I could. I envision it? Absolutely. I could envision it.

Clayton English (55:14)

Now.

Sam Mullins (55:14)

I think there's a possibility because of the organization, what it says on the front, you know, their commitment to try to keep winning all the time. They're always going to try to win, even if they're in the luxury tax. Maybe Luca wants to be that the next decade. He thinks, hey, I'm a Laker. I'm going to win titles here. But I don't know that. I don't think it's out of the question. He would look around and say, man, this isn't what I chose. What else is out there?

Clayton English (55:34)

Unless Nico Harrison goes to another team, and then you have another trade with Nico Harrison as the GM that you can fleece them. Tell us about the All City podcast that you have.

Sam Mullins (55:44)

Yeah, yeah, I'm really proud of it, man. We're. We're finishing our second year here. Do it with Adam Orez, who's a Denver sports personality, knows the Nuggets inside and out, but knows the entire league four days a week. And it's real basketball talk like this. Like we're. Like we're having right now. It's not hot take ish. It's what happened in the game last night. We're going to break it down, make you smarter. What's coming up tonight? Looking ahead, cover the entire league, especially now playoffs. Great. So it's four days a week. Find it on YouTube and all city NBA podcast or anywhere you get your podcast. I'm very proud of what it's become. And I think if you're a real basketball person, this is where you want to go to get the breakdowns.

Clayton English (56:21)

It's All City NBA podcast on YouTube, anywhere you get your podcast. Do you think I would have beaten Greg Anthony that day in Detroit shooting three pointers when we were on the floor?

Sam Mullins (56:34)

So this shooting competition, did you got a pretty good stroke? Maybe, maybe you'd have a shot. But I know this. If you decided to go one on one, I think Greg's locking you up.

Clayton English (56:43)

Oh, no, no, I agree with that. I'm just saying shooting threes, Greg Anthony is a 15 to 18 footer.

Sam Mullins (56:50)

Let me ask you a question. You always ask about shooting. Do you shoot anymore? Like you actually go to a court and shoot?

Clayton English (56:57)

It's too easy, I think. I like, after a while you get bored. You know, I used to go, I.

Sam Mullins (57:06)

Used to shoot a lot, man. I'm at the point now I shoot heavily leading up to my basketball camp, so I don't embarrass myself in front of those kids. But I just, I don't have the time for it anymore. My knees hurt a little bit more than they used to, so it's harder for me too. But I do know this. If you gave me, if you gave me a week to prepare for anything, I'm still going to go and I'll put on a good show for you.

Clayton English (57:29)

So if I gave you a week to prepare for Steph Curry.

Sam Mullins (57:34)

For Steph Curry, I need more than a week. You got to give me about three months.

Clayton English (57:37)

Okay. All right.

Sam Mullins (57:39)

Because I might need. If I'm, if I'm taking on a guy like that, I don't want to get humiliated. I'm probably going to need to go maybe get some injections in my knee first. Let's start there.

Clayton English (57:48)

Okay.

Sam Mullins (57:48)

So I have, so I have comfort and then the rhythm of repetition. Yeah, you give me, you give me, you know, six days a week, shooting for a couple of months. I'll take my shot against anybody.

Clayton English (57:58)

What about Ray Allen? You against Ray Allen right now? Three point shooting contest, man.

Sam Mullins (58:02)

That's a good, that's a great one. I don't. Ray looks like the kind of guy that still plays pickup ball. Like, you know, he's probably still in rhythm, but I would need less time to take him on. But still, I always thought Ray Allen, for like a decade until the Curry came into the league, I thought Ray Allen was the best shooter on the planet for about 10 years probably.

Clayton English (58:24)

So, you know, Steph would probably have you.

Sam Mullins (58:29)

I mean, if you don't defer to him. I think that now you're, you're coming off sounding a little bit kooky.

Clayton English (58:34)

How about you against Caitlin Clark?

Sam Mullins (58:39)

I, I'd be confident in that. I'd be confident in that matchup.

Clayton English (58:43)

Okay, what if it's from 30ft?

Sam Mullins (58:51)

She'd probably get me there now because she's, she's regularly taking them from that distance. If I go and shoot now and I'm trying to impress you, I'm going to be towed up right at the line. I used to be, I used to be, I used to be out there that in that range I'd go to, you know, I put on, I used to get, go around and visit different camps, spoke at, you know, high school recruiting camps like that and do shooting demonstrations and I'd be out where you're talking about and not miss. Like you go 20 minutes and you're just making everything now. It's, you're much closer to that line than you used to be. In fact, you're right on the line.

Clayton English (59:26)

You're.

Sam Mullins (59:26)

It's an Al Horford three.

Clayton English (59:28)

Okay, good to talk to you again, Legs. Thanks for joining us. Tim Legler. A great lawn is like a great sports team. It takes expertise and a little extra care to stand out. And that's where Trugreen comes in. Here's the best part. It's more affordable than you think. They'll even match any competitor's price. Plus Trugreen backs it all up with a satisfaction guarantee. Not happy. They will come back between visits to make it right. So don't wait. Head to trugreen.com today and let the pros do the work while you sit back and enjoy the results. Exclusions apply. See trugreen.com for details.

Greg Lott (60:07)

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24,7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments. And check shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

Margie Murphy (60:37)

In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

Olivia Carville (60:43)

Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts.

Margie Murphy (60:50)

This is Levittown, a new podcast from Iheart Podcasts. Bloomberg and kaleidoscope about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Clayton English (61:07)

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott.

Greg Lott (61:09)

And this is season two of the.

Clayton English (61:11)

War on Drugs podcast.

Olivia Carville (61:12)

Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports.

Clayton English (61:19)

It's kind of star st it a little bit, man.

Olivia Carville (61:21)

We met them at their homes, we.

Ryan Seacrest (61:22)

Met them at the recording studios.

Olivia Carville (61:25)

Stories matter and it brings a face to it.

Clayton English (61:27)

It makes it real.

Olivia Carville (61:27)

It really does. It makes it real.

Greg Lott (61:30)

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Sam Mullins (61:38)

Hi, I'm Sam Mullins and I've got a new podcast coming out called goboy, the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable.

Olivia Carville (61:48)

Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted.

Clayton English (61:51)

Has spent 24 of those years in jail.

Sam Mullins (61:53)

But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex con to a literary darling from Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts. Listen to GoBoy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.