The Best of The Dan Patrick Show

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show — "Best of" Episode

Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Dan Patrick with the Danettes
Notable Guest: Ben DiNucci (NFL QB), Trevor Sikkema (Pro Football Focus)

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Episode Overview

This "Best of" episode of The Dan Patrick Show weaves through critical NFL storylines on cut-down day, the legacy and impact of surprising sports retirements, and in-depth analysis of positional value in football. The show balances humor and insight with engaging guest appearances, including a candid conversation with journeyman NFL QB Ben DiNucci on life on the roster bubble, and a nerd-out segment with PFF's Trevor Sikkema on the analytics behind defensive player value.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Cut-Down Day Drama & Quarterback Carousel

[02:36–06:46]

• Headline News:

  • Cut-down day coverage with focus on Micah Parsons' contract status, Trey Hendrickson's deal, and Terry McLaurin's extension.
  • Kenny Pickett traded to the Raiders; Dylan Gabriel and Shedeur Sanders move up the Browns’ QB depth chart.

• Dan on Roster Moves:
  “Well, there’s only one left now and it’s Micah Parsons… Whether that happens or not, they’re on the clock and the Philadelphia Eagles are waiting for the Dallas Cowboys.” — Dan Patrick [03:40]

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2. Revisiting Andrew Luck’s Shocking Retirement & Its Legacy

[06:46–13:16]

• Retirement Shock:

  • Dan imagines the shock if a player like Josh Allen suddenly retired, drawing a parallel to Andrew Luck’s sudden exit six years prior.
  • Explores the difference between being talented at a sport and truly loving it.
  • Cites other surprising retirements (Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson) and weighs the personal vs. team/franchise perspective.

• Notable Stats:

  • Luck’s age and accomplishments compared to Allen and Burrow.
  • Touchdown passes in the first six seasons: Dan Marino (196), Mahomes (192), Luck, Allen, Manning, etc.

• Memorable Quote:
  “There are guys who are really good at their sport, but they may not love their sport. … I didn’t know if Andrew Luck loved football as much as he was just really good at football.” — Dan Patrick [08:12]

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3. Contracts, Positional Value & Team Building in the NFL

[09:54–17:12]

• Hendrickson & McLaurin Deals:

  • Hendrickson gets a significant pay increase; immediate impacts to the Bengals’ defense discussed.
  • Age perception: “Terry McLaurin apparently wasn’t old at 30 as a wide receiver, but Trey Hendrickson felt older as a 30-year-old defensive end.” — Dan [11:20]

• Edge Rusher vs. Interior Disruptor Value:

  • Dan and the Danettes debate if edge rushers, despite big salaries, might be undervalued compared to disruptive interior linemen.
  • “Aaron Donald is as valuable as any defensive player in the last 25 years… what Aaron Donald did was disrupt everything. And edge rusher… now I can adjust. Aaron Donald would go up the middle, disrupt everything.” — Dan [14:09]
  • Shift in the modern NFL: interior disruption valued due to its direct impact on quarterbacks and game outcomes.

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4. Ben DiNucci on The NFL Bubble — A Candid Interview

[24:04–33:33]

• Life as a Journeyman:

  • DiNucci, recently cut by the Falcons (his 7th release), shares what cut-down day feels like and why he’s “numb to it.”
  • “Preseason is your Super Bowl… you get two or three games, maybe a couple quarters, to put on tape what you’re going to do.” — Ben DiNucci [25:24]
  • Details on how players are notified, the aftermath, and coping with the NFL’s uncertainty.

• Future Plans:

  • Will call a Bucknell-Air Force game for CBS Sports Network, but remains open to another NFL call.
  • On being drafted during COVID: “I might be one of the only people in Cowboys history to say I got drafted from Jerry Jones’s yacht.” — Ben DiNucci [27:48]

• Memorable Moment:

  • “To be able to do that and say I started a game for the Dallas Cowboys… that was pretty cool. I’m glad that happened.” — Ben DiNucci [30:16]
  • Admits he’s cried from gratitude, not bitterness: “Teams got to like you enough to sign you in the first place. It’s been an unbelievable career.” — Ben [32:24]

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5. Deep Dive: Analytics, Player Value & Hall of Fame Potential with Trevor Sikkema

[38:26–48:55]

• Wins Above Average (WAA) Metric:

  • PFF metrics attempt to individualize value in a team game, weighing “execution of job” vs. play impact (PFF grades plus EPA/play).
  • “It felt like [Aaron Donald] was breaking our wins above average model sometimes with how much he was able to impact the game at his high of a level.” — Trevor Sikkema [40:49]

• Least Valuable Positions:

  • Often linebacker (“replacement or average does a lot of the heavy lifting,” with few elite standouts like Fred Warner making a real difference). [41:41]

• On Trey Hendrickson’s Value:

  • Ranks behind only Myles Garrett in pressures; PFF would advise Bengals to retain him if in win-now mode. [43:10]

• Cornerback vs. Wide Receiver Value:

  • In most years, a top-tier corner is more valuable than even the best wide receiver due to scarcity and direct impact (“you’re on an island”).
  • “If you are a true top-five corner, that is going to be more valuable than even the top wide receivers… our numbers reflect that scarcity.” — Trevor [46:00]

• Russell Wilson’s HOF Case:

  • PFF data supports a Hall of Fame argument for Wilson; “his wins above average numbers…I think would really help him in that case.” — Trevor [48:15]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “How could you walk away — all that money, a chance to be a starting quarterback, a chance to be a Super Bowl-winning quarterback? But that’s why we are truly all different…” — Dan Patrick [08:49]
• (On Ndamukong Suh at Nebraska) “Why does this guy have to play college? Just let him go to the NFL.” — Dan [17:14]
• “When it comes to edge rushers, they still seem to be somehow undervalued… but Aaron Donald, with what he did, was unbelievable.” — Dan [14:09]
• “You just kind of get used to it. I’m kind of numb to it… Not necessarily that it’s a bad thing.” — Ben DiNucci [24:47]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start | End | |-------------------------------------|-----------|-----------| | NFL Cut-down Day/Quarterback moves | 02:36 | 06:46 | | Andrew Luck/Retirement discussion | 06:46 | 13:16 | | Contract talk/Edge v. Interior D-line| 13:16 | 18:18 | | Ben DiNucci interview | 24:04 | 33:33 | | PFF’s Trevor Sikkema interview | 38:26 | 48:55 |

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

Dan Patrick delivers insight with his signature dry humor and deep NFL knowledge, ably supported by his Danettes. The guest segments are conversational and surprisingly heartfelt (especially DiNucci), offering listeners an authentic peek behind football’s curtain. The analytics discussion brings depth for die-hard fans, while the nostalgia for Andrew Luck’s sudden retirement connects everyone who’s ever been blindsided by a star’s departure.

This episode is a blend of revelatory insider perspective, honest emotion, and the ever-present awareness that in sports — as in life — fortune can turn on a single phone call.

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For more, listen to The Dan Patrick Show weekdays on Fox Sports Radio and streaming on Peacock.

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

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[C]

Now, I was looking for fun ways.

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To tell you that Mint's offer of.

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Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gig if network's busy, taxes and fees extra.

[D]

See mint mobile.com I'm Dan, he's Ty.

[C]

Hello.

[D]

And we're the solid verbal college football podcast.

[B]

Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[D]

Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

[B]

Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

We don't just love college football, Ty, we live it.

[B]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

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Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

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This is the story you don't. Buzz. Starring me, John Lithgow on the iHeartRadio.

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App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio. It's hour one on this Tuesday. Dan and the Danettes, Dan Patrick show gang's all here. Marvin, Paulie, Seton, also Fritzi and the back room guys. Dial us up if you'd like. 877-3DP Show Operator Tyler sitting by also. Good morning. If you're watching on Peacock, our streaming partner, download the app if you haven't done so. Stat of the Day as always, brought to you by Panini America. The official trading cards of the Dan Patrick show. And for over 40 years they've been helping you find the right tires for how and what and where you drive. And they're shipped fast and free, backed by free road hazard protection, convenient installation options like mobile tire installation, tire rack.com the way tire buying should be. Poll question, play of the day, stat of the day, all of that forthcoming. Well, there's only one left now and it's Micah Parsons. Trey Hendrickson is in, got a little pay bump but not an extended deal here. And Terry McLaurin is in a three year deal with the commander. So Micah Parsons on the outside looking in. I still think this is going to get done, but it does get tricky. A source said to me yesterday, you know, Jerry may make a statement here and say you got a one year deal left and then we're gonna, we can franchise you the next two years unless you want to give us a team friendly deal. Whether that happens or not, they're on the clock and the Philadelphia Eagles are waiting for the Dallas Cowboys. All right, it's NFL cut down day. We'll talk about that coming up. Kenny Pickett got sent to the Raiders yesterday afternoon and I immediately thought Dylan Gabriel is probably the backup quarterback in Cleveland. By all accounts, he has played really well and has outplayed Shador Sanders. And Shador Sanders will be the third quarterback. Now keep in mind, they had five quarterbacks a week ago. Now you got Joe Flacco. They had Tyler Hundley in there as well. They brought him in. They didn't have anybody healthy. That's why Shedeur got that first start. It wasn't a healthy room. Now Kenny Pickett goes after Aiden o' Connell got injured. He'll be the backup quarterback in Las Vegas.

[D]

Yes, Paul, I have the Browns current depth chart.

[B]

Joe Flacco, first string, Kenny Pickett, gone.

[D]

Dylan Gabriel, second string, Shador, third string.

[C]

Yeah, not surprised. The Raiders made it be known that they needed a backup quarterback after they lost Aiden o'. Connell. And you get Kenny Pickett, who's bounced around a little bit. He was on the Eagles roster when they won the super bowl last year. You go into Cleveland and Joe Flacco has earned it. And in almost by default, nobody really challenged him that it was going to be Joe Flacco unless somebody really blew away the coaching staff. But even then, you're not going to start a rookie. From what I was told that Dylan Gabriel will probably get a chance and maybe Shador Sanders as well. But it's Joe Flacco right now. All right. 8773-DP-SHoVE Email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle @DP-SHoVE it's hard to believe, but let's say I came in today and I told you Josh Allen just retired. You'd go, why? Like you wouldn't believe that if somebody told you. And Adam Schefter, Ian Rapoport said, hey, I'm hearing Josh Allen is retiring. Well, it was six years ago this week when Andrew Luck shocked everybody and said he's retiring. And when you think of shocking retirements now, I had been in touch with Barry Sanders and his agent and the season ended and he was going to London on a flight overnight and he was retiring. Calvin Johnson walked away. I mean, we've seen players who walk away and they still have years left. But Andrew Luck was a three time Pro bowl quarterback and I think Josh Allen is around a three or four time Pro Bowl. Now he did win an mvp, but I'm talking about the age, the age of Josh Allen I think is what, 28. And Andrew Luck I think was 28 or 29.

[D]

Both 29.

[C]

29. Okay, but imagine that that was a Saturday night, the Colts were at home. Andrew Luck is on the sidelines and Shefty gets word he's at a wedding and he breaks the news. Andrew Luck is going to announce his retirement, I think on Monday or on Sunday, but we didn't believe it. And so Andrew Luck is on the sidelines and you can tell with the crowd that everybody is sort of going, wait a minute, I've just, wait a minute, I'm getting this from Schefter here. So Andrew Luck doesn't know that the story's out there. And then they had to walk him out and he got booed. That was six years ago this week. Now he's the general manager with the Stanford football team. But imagine if Josh Allen said, I'm done now. Josh hasn't battled the injuries that Andrew Luck did. And I said, for years, you have this unbelievable talent and you do not have a good offensive line. It's like I got this unbelievable engine, but I don't have tires that are filled up. That's what you had with the Colts. And it came back to haunt them because Andrew Luck got banged up. And I think he just got to that point where he realized there's more than just football. But it still surprised us because that's where you go kicking and screaming that I'm going to continue to play. They're going to have to carry me out of here. Well, that's not who Barry Sanders was and that's not who Andrew Luck was. Calvin Johnson, I don't know. But Calvin Johnson may have just said, hey, I don't like what's going on with the franchise. We're not going anywhere. And he decided to retire, I think, at the age of 30. Barry Sanders around that same age. But you know, once again, we, we think we know an athlete when we see them. How could you walk away all that money? A chance to be a starting quarterback, a chance to be super bowl winning quarterback. But that's why we are truly all different, because what our goals are, our motives are. Andrew Luck had a bigger picture, maybe a bigger calling than just being a professional quarterback. He struck me as there's certain players, and I've said this before, there are guys who are really good at their sport, but they may not love the their sport. There are guys who are in the gym all the time, in the weight room all the time. There are other guys that they're just really good at this. And I didn't know if Andrew Luck loved football as much as he was just really good at football. And then he may have gotten to the point where he said, I can walk away from this. But six years ago this week, Andrew Luck in one of the most surprising retirements in sports history. Yeah, Paul. And Luck was coming off a very.

[B]

Good season in 2018. Sixteen starts, 10 and 6 as a.

[D]

Starter, 4,700 yards and 39 touchdowns. Both of those were second in the NFL to Mahomes. And they were coming off a season, the Colts, where they had won a playoff game.

[C]

They didn't stink. Yeah, let me go back to the Trey Hendrickson situation with the Browns, that they doubled his salary. But. And this is a win win for both. It's not a good look for the Bengals, but I understand why they're doing this. You get Trey Hendrickson, who now is going to make $30 million which he should compared to everybody else. And considering what he's done the last two years. And you're going to make him a free agent, total free agent the following season. He can go wherever he wants and you know the Bengals don't get anything in return. This is where you go, I'm going to ball out and I'm going to have a great year and then I'll go play for the Texans or Dolphins or whoever it might be. But the Bengals, they get him and they get him really, this is a contract year because he wants to prove that he's a TJ Watt, Miles Garrett kind of talent there. But I think you look at the age now, Terry McLaurin apparently wasn't old at 30 as a wide receiver, but Trey Hendrickson felt older as a 30 year old defensive end. But I think what happened with the Commanders with Terry McLaurin is it's Jaden Daniels. This is his coming in his second year. He had a great year. Went to the playoffs. You had everything worked for you. Let's not mess this up. You brought in Debo Samuel, but that's a beat up, you know, banged up Debo Samuel. You need Terry McLaurin. Terry McLaurin there every day for you, every game for you. Not flashy. He's one of those where you see after the game, I'll be Damn. He had eight catches, 91 yards and a touchdown. They had to have him. Now the Bengals, Bengals had Trey Hendrickson last year and didn't make the playoffs like it. This is while they got him, which is great. I don't know if they solved everything. That offense is going to be great. They'll be fun, be exciting. But you didn't make the playoffs last year and this feels like for that coaching staff you got to make the playoffs this year. They spent a whole lot of money on their offense, but Terry McLaurin got paid and I think in large part because they needed him. Jaden Daniels needed him. All right, let's pull question today. Seaton. Yeah, I almost feel like too that.

[B]

Josh Allen comparison is a little. Josh Allen I think is a little too accomplished.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But at the same time then the next person that I would go down to or that came to mind was Joe Burrow. If Joe Burrow retired today, I would be pretty shocked. But he's actually Andrew Luck is probably more accomplished than Joe Burrow is at this point. So he occupies this funny spot there.

[C]

And Joe's been banged up. He's had a lot of injuries. Oh, yeah, sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they. They.

[B]

There's a couple of comparisons there that.

[C]

I think are pretty apt. How about most touchdown passes in their first six seasons in NFL history? Dan Marino, 196. Patrick Mahomes, 192. Third on the list all time. Most touchdown passes first six seasons. Andrew Luck. Then it's Josh Allen, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Brett Favre, Derek Carr, Dak Prescott. That's a pretty impressive list. Look at Russ. Yeah, Russ is up there.

[B]

Come on, Cook, let's go.

[C]

Oh, he's cooking.

[B]

Hall of Famer.

[C]

Come on, let's get that fire back, kid. Come on. Yeah, but those guys are sort of, you know, Mahomes and Luck and Josh Allen, Peyton Manning, Russ, Matt Ryan, Derek Kardak. That's modern. You know, that's. That's the new NFL. When Marino was doing it, that was the old NFL where you might throw 30 touchdown passes. He threw 48 one year. Farve in there as well, at 147. All right, so the poll question or poll questions that we're considering today.

[B]

Well, we had a conversation before the show about the value of edge rushers.

[C]

And if they're.

[B]

I mean, they've got to be average salary, they've got to be what, like top three or four.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Positions in the game.

[C]

Yes. Right.

[B]

But they still seem to be somehow undervalued in a way, or maybe not.

[C]

As respected as they could be. Well, I think Aaron Donald is as valuable as any defensive player in the last 25 years. And I could even look at his, you know, his value to offensive players, and you'd be hard pressed to find somebody other than a quarterback. Now, there, there are other positions, you know, McCaffrey and Saquon Barkley and, you know, Derek Henry. I understand that what Aaron Donald did was disrupt everything. And edge rusher, if I know Bose is over here or TJ Watt is over here. Okay, now I can adjust. Aaron Donald would go up the middle, disrupt everything, and then he would make the quarterback choose if he was rolling right or left. The edge rusher might not do that. You know, he's there. We can have two guys on him, and you could still stay in the pocket. Aaron Donald, with what he did. And, you know, I'll go back to, you know, when I talk about winning Super Bowls, it comes down to defense, in my opinion. You know, when Chris Jones, Jalen Carter, Aaron Donald, you know, this is just recently. These are guys that disrupt and they're defensive linemen, defensive tackles, or they used to be called nose Tackles. Having that guy, to me is just as, if not more valuable than having that edge rusher. The edge rusher. It's great we get to see you. You get to do your sack dance. But if you give me. Because Jaylen Carter had, like four sacks and 32 tackles, but that's not his impact. Aaron Donald was unbelievable. Aaron Donald won the super bowl for the Rams because if Joe Burrow has one more second, one more second, he's got Jamar Chase because Jalen Ramsey fell down. It was a sack off. In the Super Bowl. Has that ever been used?

[D]

We said sack off the day after a sack off.

[B]

That was a mock headline where you write the headline, something about a sack off.

[C]

Sack off. But Aaron Donald, those guys, Warren Sapp, you know, your interior lineman, Mean Joe Green, those guys who play defensive tackle or nose tackle, those are the guys who I love. And it feels like every year when I'm watching college football, go, man, that Danny Shelton, he's a great nose tackle. And Dominican sue, you know, I, I.

[B]

Oh, man, that dude killer.

[C]

He should have been one the highsman. He should have been. He should have been great.

[B]

Yes, he should have been.

[C]

Should have been. Good career. Not a great career. He should have been something more.

[B]

Known for the wrong things his career ended up being. Somehow it made the wrong turn.

[C]

Yes. Paulie.

[D]

There were times when in Dominican sue was at Nebraska, it looked like one of those movies where there's a kid.

[B]

Who'S way too big playing with high school kids.

[D]

It was awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, why does this guy have to play college?

[C]

Just let him go to the NFL. And I remember talking to somebody who played at Nebraska, and they were like, we were scared of him. You know, everybody's a football player, but he's got pads on. But he said we were scared of indomin. Sue.

[B]

Okay, stop me, you know?

[C]

Yeah, I don't know.

[D]

Again.

[C]

All right, let me take a break. We'll come up with a poll question here. We got a lot of things to get to today, and I thought it would be interesting to have Ben Denucci on, former NFL quarterback, if you follow social media, he posted a picture of him at the airport, and he was having a beer on Saturday, had just gotten cut for the seventh time. Now, I did have that one game during COVID Cowboys, Eagles. And he started for the Cowboys. And I thought we could talk to him about what this life is like where you're not quite sure and, you know, quarterback's a great position to play, but he's been cut seven different times and I don't know when you get to that point where you say, all right, enough, but we'll talk to him coming up a little bit later on.

[B]

Be sure to catch the live edition.

[C]

Of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at.

[B]

9Am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports.

[C]

Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

[B]

You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course, the iHeartRadio Apple.

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Why should you listen to Covino and Rich?

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We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.

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Show on planet Earth.

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I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello and we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast.

[B]

College football season is here and you know what that means.

[D]

Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween.

[C]

Uh huh.

[B]

But fear not, the Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul crushing loss and impossible comeback.

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Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the rollercoaster of this ridiculous sport.

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Whether you're a diehard fan or a casual observer, you we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[D]

We don't just love college football, Ty, we live it.

[B]

Listen to the Solid Verbal College football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

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[B]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting in land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[C]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[B]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.

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Through something like that is a traumatic experience.

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But it's also not the end of your life.

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That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leitra Tate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harmony, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

Ben DeNucci, NFL quarterback, recently cut by the Falcons, the seventh time he's been released in his pro career. He played at Pittsburgh, he played at James Madison and was initially, I think selected by the Cowboys and the 2020 NFL Draft. Got to start a game for the Cowboys. I think that same year during COVID and Ben joining us, I wanted to buy you a beer. I felt bad when you posted you were at the airport. What time was that you were having a beer on Saturday?

[D]

About 3pm So I thought, I thought it was, I thought it was good enough time to crack one open, so figured it was fine.

[C]

Do you ever get used to getting cut?

[D]

Honestly?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, I was very fortunate the first couple years of my career to be, to be in Dallas and then the last couple years, yeah, the last 12 or 12 or 18 months I've been on three or four teams and it seems like every, every couple months you're, you're packing up, find, find a new place to play and, you know, going about your business. So yeah, I'd say at this point I'm, I'm used to it. I'm kind of numb to it. Not necessarily that it's a bad thing. It's. You just kind of get used to it.

[C]

How tense is cut down day.

[D]

For me? The last, I mean, the last couple years it hasn't been very tense. I didn't see myself having any chance to make the roster, to make the practice squad. But it's tough, right? I mean, you people don't realize for the guys that are trying to make this roster, the, any Roster. The preseason is your, is your super bowl, right? Your playoffs. You get two or three games, you get maybe a couple quarters a game to go. Put on tape what you're, what you're going to do, not only for the team you're on, but the 31 other teams. So it's, it's very stressed. I've got a few buddies who are still sitting around waiting this morning to see if, see if their phone rings or not and they'll go from there. But yeah, it's stressful. It's guys, lives, livelihoods, it's their way of making money and it's, you know, what, what they do. So it's, it's very stressful.

[C]

How are you told?

[D]

My phone rang from a New York number that I didn't have in my phone, and that's normally, you know, that's normally a number you don't ever want to see pop up on your phone. I answered, hey, Ben, you know, coach wants to see you. Bring your iPad, bring your charger, bring your playbook. And that's kind of, kind of how it rolls. When you get into the facility, there's somebody waiting for you. They take you around, drop your iPad off, go see your coaches, go see, you know, whoever else you need to see. And then, you know, they buy you a flight and then you're, next thing you know, you're drinking an airport beer.

[C]

So, okay, what do you do now? Like, at what point do you say now, I, I know you're, you're going to do a football game. Coming up, Air Force and Bucknell and CBS Sports Network, but are you done trying out for NFL teams?

[D]

So, no, I don't think I'm officially done yet.

[B]

Right.

[D]

I mean, the NFL is an interesting kind of animal. You get a phone call at any second. Could be today, tomorrow, could be in six months, could, could never be again. So, yeah, the tough part for guys is staying in it, right. Waking up every morning, still doing what you've been doing the last couple years to make sure that, you know, if the phone rings, you know, you're, you're doing what you're supposed to do and ready to roll, that if a team needs you. But at the same time, I've been in this situation a couple times the last couple years and don't necessarily want to be waiting around again all fall. Just stressing myself out, watching NFL games on Sunday. So I'm excited to, to move on a little bit, progress the next chapter of my career outside of football, and looking forward to calling Bucknell versus Air Force this Saturday.

[C]

Okay, but if you get a call on Friday night by an NFL team, what happens to Saturday afternoon, Bucknell and Air Force?

[D]

I'll tell them, hey, I can't. I can't be anywhere until Sunday. And hopefully the response is what I expect.

[C]

7Th round draft pick by the Cowboys.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

What was that like when Jerry Jones called you to tell you he was drafting you?

[D]

Very cool. I think I might be one of the only people in Cowboys history to say that I got drafted from, from Jerry Jones's yacht. It was that Covid. So they weren't, they weren't in their draft room in Dallas. I think Jerry was calling everybody from, from, from his yacht in the middle of the ocean somewhere and saw the phone ring. It was his assistant. He said, hey, you know, Ben, you know, Mr. Mr. Jones wants to talk to you. We've got the next pick. We're drafting you. And, you know, at that point, it was kind of like, all right, this is, this is really cool. Everything that we worked for growing up, high school, college, it's kind of all come, all come first full circle and worth it. And this is kind of the moment that, that we've been waiting for.

[C]

Ben Denucci, NFL quarter. I'm still going to introduce you as NFL quarterback.

[D]

That's, that's fair. I'll take it.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. Released for the seventh time in his pro career, and he'll be in the broadcasting booth, it'll be Bucknell and Air Force. That'll be at 3:30 Eastern this weekend for CBS Sports Network. Being on the practice squad as opposed to the active squad, what's the difference in how you're treated? Your pay, lifestyle?

[D]

Yeah, honestly, nothing's different except the, except your weekly checks that you're getting in every week. You know, everybody treats you the same way, right? I mean, there's 53 guys on the active roster, and there's 16 on the practice squad. And the reality of the NFL is that guys are going to get hurt over the course of the year, Right. Whether it's, you know, whatever position it is. And so those guys that are on the practice squad, they're a vital part of the team. They're the guys that are getting the starters ready to go, to go, you know, play out there on Sundays. They have a vital, vital role in making these teams go. And so there's a reason that these teams put a lot of effort into, into the practice squad just, just like they do the active roster. So, yeah, it's really all the same. You're still traveling with the team, you're still. Still practicing, still part of meetings, the pay cuts a little bit, a little bit less, but at the end of the day, it's.

[C]

It's.

[D]

It's still great. So.

[C]

But can you. Can you leave it now? Like, if I say, what is your moment? You're going to tell your kids or grandkids where you. That's my NFL moment. What is it?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it'd be. It'd be hard not to say. You know, my rookie year, when I got to start that game on Sunday Night Football against the Cowboys, I think that's a moment that everybody kind of grows up thinking, hey, I'd love to. I'd love to play in the NFL, let alone let it be for the Dallas Cowboys.

[B]

Right?

[D]

I mean, the stars just kind of this iconic brand, not only, you know, in the U.S. but, you know, overseas as well. So. Yeah, it's. It's crazy that it just happened my first year. Some guys it happens year 10, some it happens year 5. And mine just happened to be. To be rookie year. And so, you know, to be able to do that and say I started a game for the Dallas Cowboys is something that a lot of people can't. Can't say and stick their name to. So that was kind of my, hey, welcome to the NFL moment. And I think when. When it's all said and done, that'll be what I look back on and say, man, that was. That was pretty cool. I'm glad that. Glad that happened.

[C]

How nervous were you?

[D]

Well, honestly, I think I would have been a lot more nervous had there been 75,000 people in the stands, like, a year, opposed to only 5, 5 or 6,000 for Covid. So I honestly wasn't that nervous. Right. I think you're more nervous just kind of the week leading up the practice, the game plan, making sure, you know, the checks, everything is kind of. You're good mentally. And then when you get out there on the. On the day of the game, shoot, it's the same game I've been playing for the last 15 years. So when you step inside the white lines, it's. It's go time. You got to shut up, shut everything else out and go play ball.

[C]

You get to keep your jerseys from all these stops. You do?

[D]

Yeah. You can see my Cowboys one up here. I grabbed. I grabbed my Falcons one last weekend, and I think I've got. The only. The only one I don't have is the Bills from last year during camp. So trying to. Trying to Find a way to. To get that one. That's the last one I need.

[C]

Do you have to ask, or do you steal?

[D]

Well, you steal, but they still. They still deduct it from your paycheck. You've got to kind of sign off on everything. The day after the games, when they're checking all the jerseys back in, they're like, all of a sudden, hey, Denucci's jersey's not here. Let's make sure he. He pays for this thing on his way out. So that might have been my last parting gift from the Falcons.

[C]

How much was it?

[D]

400 bucks? Yeah. So, I mean, I guess it depends who you ask. That's a lot of money.

[C]

Or not. So is it game used?

[D]

It's worth it. It was worth it.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

It's game used. Yeah. When I worked the game, took it right off. I took it right off my tags after the game and threw it through my bag.

[C]

So good luck with the broadcasting career and maybe the phone rings, but you got the opportunity, though, Ben. That's the key. And a lot of us never had it. You got it, and maybe you get that opportunity again. But it seemed like you're in good spirits. I don't know if you're masking something. Did you cry?

[D]

I. I've cried a couple of times. I'm at this point in my career where it's just. I'm filled with a lot of gratitude at this point.

[C]

Right.

[D]

To be able to be cut that many times, you've got to. You know, teams got to like you enough to sign you in the first place. Right. So it's been an unbelievable career. Got five good years, played on a bunch of different teams. Played for some, you know, head coaches that I grew up idolizing. You know, Coach McCarthy, Coach Payton, Coach McDermott in Buffalo. Played with a lot guys, right? Dak, Josh Allen, Russell Wilson, guys that, you know, I've had on my fantasy team for years growing up, and then all of a sudden, you're sitting next to them in the. In the media room saying, how the hell the heck did I get here? So it's been really cool for me. Yeah. There's no reason to hang my head. I'm excited about the next chapter, and it's been. It's been a heck of a ride.

[C]

It might be awkward, and. It might be awkward me even saying this, but. Did you ever try to swap jerseys with Dak or Russell Wilson or Josh Allen?

[D]

Honestly, no. That thought never even even crossed my mind. But looking back now, I. I sure would like to have a couple of, a couple of those jerseys to throw up next to mine in my, in my man cave. Just to say, hey, my kids one day. Yeah, your dad was decent. He, he actually did play with these guys. He doesn't just have a bunch of random, random jerseys of himself hanging up on the wall.

[C]

Thanks for joining us. We appreciate being a good sport here and good luck against with Bucknell and Air Force this weekend.

[D]

Thank you Dan. Appreciate it. All the best.

[C]

That's Ben Denucci.

[B]

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Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app.

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[D]

I'm Dan. He's Ty.

[C]

Hello.

[D]

And we're the Solid Verbal College football podcast.

[B]

College football season is here and you know what that means.

[D]

Your team is going to break your heart three times probably before Halloween.

[C]

Uh huh.

[B]

But fear not. The Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul crushing loss and impossible comeback.

[D]

Join us all season long, all year long as we ride the rollercoaster of this ridiculous sport.

[B]

Whether you're a diehard fan or a kid casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[D]

We don't just love college football, Ty.

[C]

We live it.

[B]

Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your your podcasts. I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[C]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[B]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[A]

Welcome to Pretty Private with ebony, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebony and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we're explaining explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles and more and found the strength to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant. But he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast, it's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.

[D]

Through something like that is a traumatic.

[C]

Experience, but it's also not the end of your life.

[A]

That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tritate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the unwanted sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

I've been talking about Aaron Donald, how I think he's underrated. And I love having that defensive tackle, nose tackle. He disrupts everything up the middle, and Aaron Donald certainly did that. We ran down some other names in NFL history. I know edge rushers get a lot of attention, certainly cornerbacks, but that guy up the middle, that just changes everything. And lo and behold, Fritzi reaches out to Trevor Sikma, the Pro Football Focus lead draft analyst, host of NFL Stock Exchange podcast. Help me understand the metrics for Pro Football Focus on the most valuable. If I put Aaron Donald And I said T.J. watt, like, how do you equate the value of Aaron Donald to TJ Watt or another edge rusher, Miles Garrett?

[B]

Yeah, so we have a model [e-mail] and it's. It's called Wins above average, Wins above replacement, whatever you want to call it. And actually it's available for our team clients to be able to use. It's not a PFF plus product that we have there. And honestly, it's because a lot of stuff goes into it. And the question that you asked is, it's a tough one, right? I mean, I think in baseball, a lot of people will reference wins above average, wins above replacement, that kind of stuff. And it's a little bit easier because a lot of the stats are a little bit more common. We're viewing things on a little bit more of a. Of an equal playing field, especially when it comes to offense. But in the NFL, it's different, and it really is a total team game, and it is tough to individualize those certain performances. But with the model that we have, you know, we get to take things into account, like PFF grades, which of course grade every single player on every single play, which kind of tell us how well a player is executing their job. And then we're able to give a little bit of value to that with the rise in popularity and perfection of the EPA per play, EPA per rush, those kinds of metrics. So now all of a sudden you have stats that or grades, data points, I should say, that allow you to grade performance. And then we also have a data point that gives you a little bit of an idea for value. And so going back to your question of like, hey, Aaron Donald vs. T.J. watt vs. Miles Garrett, it all kind of comes down to how a individual player is making an individual play. And necessarily not only how much are they leaned upon just themselves on an island, if you will, but also does doing their job either at a net zero level or a positive or a negative level, how much that actually impacts the football game. And so we have our own wins above average metric which a lot of those things sort of get into it. We can get into that a little bit deeper for as much as I can. I didn't invent the metric myself. I just kind of know it pretty well from everything that we do. But it is that way where we take a total team game and try to give these guys individual value. And just to what you were talking about, about, you know, Aaron Donald before, it felt like he was breaking our wins above average model sometimes with how much he was able to impact the game at his high of a level. But we have to take that into account when we do stuff like that.

[C]

Least valuable defensive position is what?

[B]

Oh, the. I would say, I would say the least valuable is often linebacker because the word replacement or average does a lot of the heavy lifting for this formula. When you get linebackers, of course, like Fred Warner is at the very top of the list and it's because of what he can do in coverage as a run defender, as a pass rusher, he does all of those things. But there are so many linebackers that don't have that capability to give you those plus grades and maybe more important just those even grades of not screwing up his job the way that Fred Warner does that with a high floor and a high ceiling. So a guy like that will have a wins above average that is a little bit closer to, you know, normal interior defenders, some edge rushers, guys like that. But there's a lot of linebackers that it gets a lot lower to that 0.0 wins above average number the further you go down from Fred Warner and it doesn't take you long to, to get to that point. So I think that the most valuable linebackers in the league still hold that word a ton of value themselves. But there's just a lot of guys that much like the running back position. The more replaceable you are, the more close to average you are, the less value you're going to hold like that.

[C]

If the Bengals ask you and Pro Football Focus if they should give Trey Hendrickson a three year deal or just give him a one year deal and let him walk, what would pro Football Focus tell the Bengals?

[B]

Yeah, I think that it comes down to sort of exactly what the conversation ended up being between these two parties. And that is he's I believe, 30 right now are about to turn 31. What does his performance look like in 2026 and 2027? Where is that drop off there? And you know, it's a little bit of a different metric. I don't know, you know, if we have something out there for necessarily like age decline. But I can tell you from a win above average standpoint, the only edge rusher that we had in our system that was more valuable than Trey Hendrickson, who led the NFL and pressures last year was Miles Garrett. And the reason why Miles Garrett was a little bit higher is simply because he was better as a run defender. But Trey was doing his job extremely well. And I would, I would stack that up with the rest of the team there. With the Bengals, you're not just looking at what Trey Henderson is versus the rest of the league. Of course, that goes into the overall number of what you're discussing with the contract, but it also goes into who else do you have on your team? Because if you look at the Bengals, the three players that are higher and wins above average are the three that you would expect. It's T. Higgins, it's Jamar Chase, and of course it's Joe Burrow. But after that, it's Trey Hendrickson, and then, you know, the next guy on the team is much, much lower. So I would certainly tell the Bengals, like, hey, if you want to compete for a Super bowl, if you want to compete in what is maybe the toughest division in the NFL, you probably cannot do it with this guy and you're not going to be able to replace him in the aggregate.

[C]

Trevor Sikma, the Pro Football Focus lead NFL draft analyst, co host of NFL Stock Exchange podcast. For a guy who won the Heisman and is coming in and maybe playing both ways, there is little conversation about Travis Hunter, which I find remarkable. Has Pro Football Focus looked at what's more valuable in all pro cornerback or an all pro wide receiver with Travis Hunter?

[B]

So these guys are. It is pretty close between those because, you know, as we were putting together and again, I, I wasn't in the beginning stages of this. I've just done a lot of reading up on it and had conversations with a lot of people who kind of came up with this metric. For us, what we realized is that wins above average and wins above replacement in the game of football gets a lot higher the further you are away from the ball, actually, because normally you have less help, right? I mean, like when you're closer to the ball, if you're in the box, you know, as an interior Defensive lineman or a linebacker, and even sometimes edge rushers, you have a lot of help next to you. But when you get all the way out to the sideline and it's a corner and a wide receiver, you're on an island. It's all about your individual skills. How can you get open? How can you not let a receiver get open? And what we have figured out is that some years it can flip, right? Some years the highest wins above average wide receiver, like a Jamar Chase or a Justin Jefferson can be a little bit higher. But last year, for example, it was Patrick Surtan. He was the highest graded defender that we had. From a wins above average standpoint. He ends up winning defensive player of the year and it's just because of exactly what he's able to do. You can stick him on an island against the other team's best playmaker in the passing game and he can totally take him away. That is unbelievably valuable from an individual standpoint in a team game. So it is sort of close. But to answer your question, I think that for the most part, if you are a true top tier, top five corner, that is going to be more valuable than even the top wide receivers. Because again, we get back to scarcity. There's a lot of wide receivers who can do it at a very high level. There's not a ton of corners that you can go out there and tell them to play cat coverage, say, hey, you go cover that cat. Make sure he doesn't catch the football. The top ones do. And our numbers reflect that type of scarcity and that value. So that's why I was a big proponent of Travis Hunter being a corner in the NFL and understanding that if you wanted to get benefit of the both sides of the ball with him, you'd probably have to, you know, play him a little bit differently. But I always said you can play him full time at corner, get maximum value there and then moonlight him a little bit as a wide receiver and sort of get that value there. You can't do the opposite. You can't have a guy play full time at wide receiver and then say, hey, go couple, go play a couple of plays at corner. Or at least it's really damn difficult to do that. So that's why I was a big proponent of him playing cornerback, because our wins above average model sort of spoke to that value there.

[C]

Does Pro Football Focus have Hall of Fame grades?

[B]

I don't know if we do. Our data goes back to 2006 and I know that that every year, we kind of try to take the data a little bit further. You know, like we'll watch a bunch of the season for 050 for all those kinds of things. But I'm not sure, I'm not sure if we have a specific hall of Fame grades for all those guys that are in the Hall.

[C]

Yeah, well, even those who could get in the hall of Fame, like pending hall of Famers.

[B]

Yes, we definitely would if. Certainly, certainly, certainly if they're recent guys. Yes.

[C]

Like Russell Wilson. Is Russell Wilson, by your metrics, already a Hall of Famer?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's a. That is a great question. I wouldn't be able to answer off the top of my head, but I do know that Russell has a ton of value. Again, like, I, I know that just from off the top of my head. If you were making a case for Russell Wilson to make the hall of Fame, his wins above average numbers, I think would really help him in that case. Like, I really do. I think that's a. It's a great case study. It's a great. You might have just given me a future article to write. [e-mail] they're looking at some of those guys who are active players and might have a Hall of Fame case. But I do know off the top of my head that that would be a metric that would help him because I've seen him at the very top of that list a handful of times.

[C]

Great to talk to you. We'll talk to you during the season. Thank you, Trevor.

[B]

Appreciate it. DP anytime.

[C]

Trevor Sikima.

[D]

I'm Dan, he's Ty.

[C]

Hello.

[D]

And we're the solid verbal college football podcast.

[B]

Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[D]

Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

[B]

Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

We don't just love college football, Ty, we live it.

[B]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting in land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[C]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[B]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[A]

From tips for healthy living to the latest medical breakthroughs, WebMD's Health Discovered podcast keeps you up to date on today's most important health issues. Through in depth conversations with experts from across the healthcare community, WebMD reveals how today's health news will impact your life tomorrow.

[C]

It's not that people don't know that.

[D]

Exercise is healthy, it's just that people don't know why it's healthy and we're struggling to try to help people help themselves and each other.

[A]

Listen to WebMD Health discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance bro trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No, thank you. Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week I your host Mandy Money gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel useless. Like on Fridays when I take your questions for the baqa, whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace. I got you. Listen to Brown ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's Black Business Month and Money and.

[B]

Wealth podcast with John Hope Bryant is tapping in. I'm breaking down how to build wealth, create opportunities, and move from surviving to thriving. It's time to talk about ownership, equity.

[D]

And everything in between. Black and brown communities have historically been last in line.

[B]

Let me just say this AI is moving faster than civil rights legislation ever did. Listen to Money and Wealth from the Black Effect podcast network on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.