The Best of The Dan Patrick Show

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show - "The Best of The Dan Patrick Show" Summary

Release Date: June 17, 2025

Overview

In this episode of The Dan Patrick Show, hosts Michael Kasson, Max Chavkin, and Stacey Vanek Smith delve deep into the current NBA Finals, analyze standout performances, engage in insightful discussions about player dynamics and team strategies, and feature an exclusive interview with U.S. Open golf champion JJ Spawn. The episode is rich with expert commentary, memorable quotes, and a thorough examination of pivotal moments shaping the sports landscape.

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1. NBA Finals Showdown: OKC Thunder vs. Indiana Pacers

Timestamp: 02:47 - 05:55

The conversation kicks off with a comprehensive breakdown of the ongoing NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder (OKC) and the Indiana Pacers. Michael Kasson highlights the emergence of Jalen Williams as a formidable force, comparing his performance to legendary duos like LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

• Michael Kasson (02:47): "They combined to score or assist on 103 points. That's the most by a duo in an NBA Finals game in the last five decades."

Max and Stacey discuss the strategic decisions made by OKC's coach Rick Carlisle, particularly focusing on Tyrese Halliburton's performance despite injury concerns.

• Michael Kasson (04:00): "The relationship that the coach has with his star player. Did the star player want to come out?"

• Stacey Vanek Smith (05:39): "He's not 100%. It was clear he's going to miss the next game."

The segment underscores the tension between player health and team strategy, emphasizing the high stakes of the Finals.

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2. Tyrese Halliburton: Commitment vs. Injury

Timestamp: 05:39 - 17:03

The hosts delve deeper into Halliburton's decision to play despite being injured, sparking a debate on the appropriateness of risking player health in critical games.

• Michael Kasson (06:07): "I'm not trying to convince everyone else that that's the wrong thing to do."

• Max Chavkin (16:00): "He just stayed perfectly still watching the ball hit his foot, and he was perfectly happy to ruin his perfect game and take his base."

Stacey defends Halliburton's commitment, drawing parallels to Michael Jordan's legendary "flu game," while Max criticizes the decision, advocating for prioritizing long-term player health over immediate game impact.

• Stacey Vanek Smith (09:00): "If you can walk, then I want to play."

• Max Chavkin (17:17): "I was personally bothered by it. That doesn't mean I'm not trying to convince everyone else that that's the wrong thing to do."

The discussion highlights the ethical and strategic dilemmas faced by teams in the Finals, balancing player welfare with championship aspirations.

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3. Exclusive Interview: JJ Spawn on Winning the US Open

Timestamp: 25:07 - 31:57

The show features an exclusive interview with JJ Spawn, the U.S. Open golf champion, who shares insights into his remarkable victory and personal challenges.

• Michael Kasson (25:07): "JJ Spawn, U.S. Open champ, joining us on the show."

Spawn recounts his strategic tee shot on the 17th hole and the emotional journey leading to his triumph.

• JJ Spawn (26:34): "That was the strategy all week long is to send driver up there and just try to get up and down."

He also touches on personal hardships, including caring for his sick daughter during the tournament, showcasing the human side of athletic success.

• JJ Spawn (29:08): "She must have caught some sort of stomach bug from one of the other kids running around."

The interview provides a heartfelt look into the perseverance and dedication required to win at the highest levels of golf.

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4. In-Depth Analysis with Brian Scalabrini: Celtics' Trades and Eastern Conference Dynamics

Timestamp: 37:23 - 54:02

Brian Scalabrini, Celtics analyst and Sirius XM co-host, joins the conversation to dissect the Boston Celtics' recent trades, the impact of Tyrese Halliburton's performance, and the broader implications for the Eastern Conference.

• Stacey Vanek Smith (40:30): "The collective bargaining agreement, the second apron, the punitive repeater tax, like, they just don't make it feasible to keep these teams together anymore."

Scalabrini discusses the complexities of NBA trades under the new collective bargaining agreement, emphasizing the challenges of assembling championship-contending teams.

• Stacey Vanek Smith (42:32): "It's not anything we've ever experienced before with the way the rules are so complicated."

The segment also explores the potential of the Indiana Pacers and the shifting power dynamics within the Eastern Conference, suggesting that traditional powerhouses like the Celtics are facing unprecedented obstacles.

• Michael Kasson (43:39): "The east is open with Indiana making this run."

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5. Spotlight on Young Talent: Cooper Flag

Timestamp: 45:14 - 53:51

The hosts shine a spotlight on Cooper Flag, a prodigious young basketball talent with exceptional processing speed and on-court intelligence.

• Stacey Vanek Smith (45:14): "He's a supercomputer. Everything you tell him within 24 hours, he figured it out."

Flag's unparalleled ability to grasp and execute complex plays at a young age positions him as a potential future star, drawing comparisons to established players like LeBron James.

• Stacey Vanek Smith (47:59): "I've never met someone that just can pick up things at such a high rate."

This segment underscores the importance of mental acuity and adaptability in rising basketball talents, highlighting Flag's unique contributions to the game.

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6. Defense vs. Offense in the NBA: Evaluating Player Performance

Timestamp: 50:32 - 53:51

A lively debate ensues regarding the balance between defensive prowess and offensive capabilities among NBA players. The hosts discuss various players, their strengths, and weaknesses, emphasizing how size and physical attributes influence defensive effectiveness.

• Stacey Vanek Smith (50:45): "It's going to be based off of size."

The conversation covers iconic players like Paul Pierce, LeBron James, and current stars such as Steph Curry and James Harden, analyzing their defensive contributions and how these impact their overall game.

• Michael Kasson (52:18): "Steph Curry doesn't play defense. I mean, he plays the passing lanes."

The discussion also touches on the role of analytics in evaluating player performance, debating whether certain teams, like OKC, are deviating from traditional strategies by not emphasizing three-point shooting.

• Michael Kasson (39:49): "They may ruin basketball as we know it because they're not firing up threes."

This segment provides a nuanced exploration of how different players and teams prioritize various aspects of the game, shaping the evolving landscape of the NBA.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dan Patrick Show offers a rich tapestry of sports analysis, player interviews, and strategic discussions. From the high-stakes environment of the NBA Finals to the personal triumphs of a U.S. Open champion, the hosts provide listeners with in-depth insights and engaging conversations that resonate with both casual fans and avid sports enthusiasts.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Kasson (02:47): "They combined to score or assist on 103 points. That's the most by a duo in an NBA Finals game in the last five decades."
• Stacey Vanek Smith (05:39): "He's not 100%. It was clear he's going to miss the next game."
• JJ Spawn (29:08): "She must have caught some sort of stomach bug from one of the other kids running around."
• Stacey Vanek Smith (40:30): "The collective bargaining agreement, the second apron, the punitive repeater tax, like, they just don't make it feasible to keep these teams together anymore."

Listeners tuning in can expect a dynamic blend of expert opinions, spirited debates, and heartfelt stories that capture the essence of today’s sports world.

Transcript

[Max Chavkin]

This is an iHeart podcast. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chafton. And I'm Stacey Vanek Smith. So listen to everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app app podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This medal is for the men who.

[Max Chavkin]

Went down that day on Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. You'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio. Appreciate Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Michael Kasson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good.

[Michael Kasson]

Company, the podcast where I sit down.

[Max Chavkin]

With the boldest innovators shaping what's next.

[Michael Kasson]

In this episode I'm joined by Anjali.

[Max Chavkin]

Su, CEO of Tubi.

[Michael Kasson]

We dive into the competitive world of streaming.

[Max Chavkin]

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There's so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

[Michael Kasson]

Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio.

[Max Chavkin]

App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the youe versus you podcast. I'm Lex Borrero inviting you to go beyond the titles and the accolades of the world's most successful entertainers. Each week we take off the cape and get real about the inner battles, childhood stories and the moments that shaped our guests. Get inspired to become the best version of you. Listen to youo vs you podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I also wanna address the Tonys. On a recent episode of Checking in with Michelle Williams.

[Michael Kasson]

I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards.

[Max Chavkin]

Do I? I was never mad.

[Michael Kasson]

I was disappointed because I had high.

[Max Chavkin]

Hopes to hear this and more on disappointment and protecting your pe. To checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio.

[Michael Kasson]

Every Batman needs a Robin. Michael Ed, Scotty, LeBron had Wade, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Shaq and Kobe. You can go down through history and it feels like there was a Batman and there was a Robin. OKC already has their Batman in the MVP and Shea, Gilgis, Alexander. And last night it became really clear to the, well, probably the NBA population watching this OKC team probably for the first time. Jalen Williams is a sidekick of sorts, but he's a star in his own right. He was third team all NBA. He went to Santa Clara. He had scholarship offers to Hofstra, Santa Clara, one other school in there, and that's it. He had 40 points last night, biggest game of his young career. So you got Shea Gilgis, who's 25, Williams, who's 23 and wasn't afraid of the bright lights last night. He was the best player on the floor for a good portion of that game. Now, I know we get caught up in big names and rightfully so. If you start to look at Miklin, Scotty, LeBron and Kyrie, Kevin Durant and Steph Curry, the performance last night between Shea Gilous Alexander and Jaylen Williams is one of the best in the last 50 years. So hear me out on this. They combined to score or assist on 103 points. That's the most by a duo in an NBA Finals game in the last five decades. Stat of the Day brought to you by Panini America, the official trading cards of the Dan Patrick Show. But 8 minutes and 30 seconds to go. It's a two point game. Tyrese Halliburton is banged up. He didn't score a basket. He had four points. He couldn't even get shots up. And then you started to wonder and I wondered at halftime, would he even play in the second half? Because you can live to play another game. You have another game back in Indiana. You're guaranteed that no matter what happened last night, that's what I didn't understand with Rick Carlisle and we can talk about how great a coach he is. I did not agree with that. But I'd like to know more and maybe more will come out because the next game is on Thursday. The relationship that the coach has with his star player. Did the star player want to come out? Does the coach say to him, I want you to come out because you don't want to take out your best player or one of your best players. But he was hurting you. And TJ McConnell was wonderful when he came in in the third quarter, he actually took over here. Is Rick Carlisle talking about Tyrese Halliburton?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

He's not 100%. It's pretty clear, but I don't think.

[Max Chavkin]

He'S going to miss the next game.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And, you know, we were concerned at halftime and he insisted on playing.

[Max Chavkin]

And I thought. I thought he made a lot of.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Really good things happen in the second half, but he's. He's not.

[Max Chavkin]

He's not 100%, you know, and there's.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

A lot of guys in this series that aren't.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah, but this was really pronounced. You could see that he was struggling. But here's Halliburton talking about deciding to play.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I miss NBA Finals. It's the Finals, man.

[Max Chavkin]

I've worked my whole life to be here, and I want to be out there to compete, you know, help my teammates any way I can. You know, I was not great tonight by any means, but, you know, it's not really a thought of mine to. To not play here. You know, if I. If I can, you know, walk, then. Then I want to play. So, you know, they understand that and, you know, is what it is and, you know, gotta be ready to go for game six.

[Michael Kasson]

You can be hurt and you can be injured. If you're injured, then you shouldn't play. If he's just banged up a little bit, then okay, I understand he wants to go out there, but at some point you have to realize they're going to take advantage of him being out there. And the fact that TJ McConnell was playing so well kind of exacerbated that. I didn't want Halliburton out there, and I want him to be great in game six. I don't want him to be average in game five and then average in game six. I would have shut him down at halftime. Said it at the time, don't play him now. They had a big lead. They did cut that lead. Then it's a two point game with eight and a half to go, but he was not a factor. And nobody was able to stop Jalen Williams or Shea Gilers. I mean, Gilers had an oh, by the way game when he had 32 and 10 assists. Like an oh, by the way game, 31 and 10, oh, by the way, talk about efficient. Talk about where that. He's one of those players where you go, he had how many certain guys you go, wait, he only had that many. He's one of those guys where you go, wait, he had that many. And it's all two pointers. Him and Williams like, this is a box score out of the 90s where you got a couple of three pointers and that's it. They're just scoring. But Indiana still has another game back at home on Thursday night. And I hope we get to see the best of Halliburton because he has had an incredible playoff run, one that will remember for a long, long time. And you could put him up there with clutch shooters, clutch players. But last night, I needed to help him help himself and not play the second half of the game. Now, you might be saying, all right, we're going to lose this game, but you were only down two with eight and a half to go. And that's where you have to rely on your other players. Halliburton wasn't able to. And that's where you ask your team to step up. And they made it interesting. And then all of a sudden, a minute and a half to play and then all the starters came out. I was like, okay, yeah, Marvin, if.

[Max Chavkin]

There'S a team that would do something.

[Michael Kasson]

Like that where, hey, Tyrese, you take a back seat.

[Max Chavkin]

We'll handle this.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's the Pacers, because you have a.

[Max Chavkin]

Bunch of those guys that are willing to step up in those moments. Allah a nem hard a T.J. mcConnell, Naismith.

[Michael Kasson]

Those guys will be.

[Max Chavkin]

They would be ready to step up.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah. OB topping. I mean, they do have players, but. Okay, okay. See, played defense. Everybody plays defense. It's remarkable. I mean, even SGA plays defense, but, like, you have to. That. That's. And Lou Dort doesn't care. Hartenstein doesn't care about. They don't care about offense. Now, you want me to shoot a three door? Can do that. But to be able to have a team that understands how that team works, sometimes that's the biggest hurdle. Because everybody wants to be a star. And if I would have said to you prior to letting you know that Jaylen Williams was, you know, third team all NBA, you never would have thought that. Yeah, Marvin, he's kind of got a.

[Max Chavkin]

Chris Middleton feel to him where it's like, okay, man, this guy is so good. But if you're not a hardcore NBA fan, you have no idea who this is.

[Michael Kasson]

Third team, all NBA. Now, they might reward OKC because you have 68 wins. Okay, SGA. Well, he's not doing it alone. And then sometimes you'll single out somebody else on the team. Jalen Williams showed you last night. Hey, I'm good, huh? I'm only 23 years of age.

[Max Chavkin]

Yeah, Paul, I saw some people Complaining on social media about the refs not calling more fouls against okc. But it feels like OKC is that old. Remember the Seattle Seahawks defense? Foul on every possession. You know, rough people up on every possession. You can't call them all. And it's working so far.

[Michael Kasson]

So the Thunder beat the Pacers 120 to 109. You got hockey coming up tonight. The Oilers at the Panthers. Panthers, a chance to go back to back seaton poll question today.

[Max Chavkin]

Which series would you rather go?

[Michael Kasson]

Seven games. NBA, NHL? I think if I knew that we were going to have Edmonton win, then I would love for it to go seven. That's funny. Yeah, I knew who the winner was. Definitely seven. Yeah. Okc, Indiana. If you said we got a game seven, it doesn't matter who wins, I'm fine with that. But with hockey, if. If Edmonton had a chance to bring the cup back to Canada, that'd be pretty special. It's just Florida. They know how to win. Gosh. And by the way, Dylan, our resident gambler said that the over under, I think they've gone over with goals scored every single game. I think it's six and a half goals coming up tonight, which means it's going to go over again. That's what Dylan goes. That means it's going to go under. Right. I go. I. I have no idea that you gamble. I don't. Yes. Yes.

[Max Chavkin]

Paul, I thought you were supposed to bet against trends as a gambler because trends don't last.

[Michael Kasson]

But if it's lasted five games, then you're.

[Max Chavkin]

I think an analytics person would tell you it has to even out because of. And you'd bet against it, I think.

[Michael Kasson]

What other poll questions you have seen?

[Max Chavkin]

Well, I kind of wanted to stick.

[Michael Kasson]

With hockey a little bit, but this might be over our skates, if you know what I mean.

[Max Chavkin]

Nice.

[Michael Kasson]

See what I did there? Yeah, I did, Unfortunately. Yeah. Connor McDavid.

[Max Chavkin]

Oh, no.

[Michael Kasson]

Did I just get gone? No, it was. That was a polite gong. That's crazy. I've been accused of premature gonging before. I feel I'm going to appeal that.

[Max Chavkin]

Premature gonging.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay. I don't know that that was gong. You know, I was just seeing if it was hooked up. Ready to go.

[Max Chavkin]

Ready to go. Anticipating gongs.

[Michael Kasson]

Yes. Guy next to you is going to get gong today, guaranteed. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, that makes sense. But you did locate JJ Spawn for the show, so you're already. You're. You're one up. It's plus one for you, too.

[Max Chavkin]

Does that distance yourself from the gong a little further.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. All right, what else do you have, Steve? You know what? Let me jump ahead to one that Todd has so I could get a.

[Max Chavkin]

Gong in here real quick.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay, Make. Todd is very upset about this.

[Max Chavkin]

Well, not. Maybe not quite very upset, but it's.

[Michael Kasson]

His lead story for sure. Making no attempt to get. To avoid getting hit by a pitch to ruin an opponent's perfect game is dot, dot, dot. Yeah. Gage Wood, nice name. Arkansas pitcher, threw a no hitter, missed out on a perfect game as he hit a batter. And then Fritz, he was all upset that the batter didn't get out of the way. I thought one batter didn't get out of the way, but they called him out. But the other one just got hit by the pitch. Todd.

[Max Chavkin]

Yeah, but they. On the. In the eighth inning, the one that lost the perfect game was the hit by pitch of the foot. And the guy kind of just stood there like a statue. And I know the ball dipped in it kind of curved, and maybe he didn't see it coming. And I guess you want to get on base any way you can. It's the World Series and all that, but I've seen people get out of the way all the time. I had a problem that he didn't make any effort to move his foot a little bit. That's the way you're gonna get on base and ruin some guys.

[Michael Kasson]

Yes, Paul.

[Max Chavkin]

So the Murray State Racers batter, who is in an elimination game in a college World Series that his team has never been to before in the eighth inning, should not do everything he can to get on base. I would think in a situation like that, it would be almost instinctual. If a ball's coming at you, I know it's not coming out of his head or anything, but if the ball looks like it's about to hit you, instinctually, you kind of dance out of the way a little bit. He just stayed perfectly still watching the ball hit his foot, and he was perfectly happy to ruin his perfect game and take his base.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay, I didn't love. I know. Of all the things that happened. Ohtani took the mound last night. You got hockey tonight. J. Spahn is going to be on the show. OKC on the verge of winning a title for the first time. Todd's like, I can't believe. Did you see that hitter? He didn't get out of the way.

[Max Chavkin]

Oh, Tani went five innings and struck out 12 and gave up one hit.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And then I'd be like, wow, Ohtani.

[Michael Kasson]

The things that bother you?

[Max Chavkin]

Yes, Paul, this is starting to bother me. This is the last situation where you should help out a pitcher. And in a perfect game. This is the opposite of a regular season game where you wouldn't do anything to get on base during a perfect game. I'm just thinking like, of all the unwritten rules in baseball that to me would be in that group, standing perfectly still as a ball which was not thrown particularly hard, dips into your toe, and you're like, oh, man, there goes the perfect game.

[Michael Kasson]

That was a wild curveball, though. Maybe the, the hitter was fooled a little bit.

[Max Chavkin]

Looked like he had ample time to.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Move his foot out of the way.

[Max Chavkin]

That's all I'm saying. I'm one person. I'm not saying everyone should.

[Michael Kasson]

Oh, I know you're one person, but you speak for like 15.

[Max Chavkin]

I'm saying I was personally bothered by it. That doesn't mean I'm not trying to convince everyone else that that's the wrong thing to do.

[Michael Kasson]

I know, but it was weak.

[Max Chavkin]

It was weak. It was bush league. And that's the story.

[Michael Kasson]

I had no problem with it. Whatever. I remember Johnny Bench tried to bunt in the seventh inning of game against Kenny Holtzman of the Cubs and Holtzman threw a no hitter. And I remember I was with guys and they're like, that's so cheap to try to go, what are you talking about? Wait, I'm supposed to just go up there and swing and help you out here.

[Max Chavkin]

But then someone tried to bunt off Nolan Ryan to ruin.

[Michael Kasson]

Yes.

[Max Chavkin]

And Nolan Ryan let him know what he thought about that.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah, okay. But that's a regular season game. This is the College World Series, Todd, the elimination game for Murray State. Anything it takes, they all applaud for.

[Max Chavkin]

Him in the die. Good job. Nice to give you a foot in there.

[Michael Kasson]

Yes.

[Max Chavkin]

Rally. Rally monkey.

[Michael Kasson]

Well, I think part of the problem is that when you play baseball, you have to stay in the batter's box. You have to stay in on a pitch. Right.

[Max Chavkin]

Well, if you, if you start getting out of the way every time there's.

[Michael Kasson]

A breaking ball coming towards you, you're.

[Max Chavkin]

The chances of you.

[Michael Kasson]

You're going to strike out way more.

[Max Chavkin]

Than you get hit by a pitch.

[Michael Kasson]

But you can dance out of the way of a pitch that's inside. You can. Yeah. I mean, guys get out of the way of, you know, pitches that get away from pitchers. They do. But do you think it was bush league what happened?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Where the hell.

[Max Chavkin]

No.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay, Marvin, do you think it was bush league that the Batter, you know, stayed in there to get on base.

[Max Chavkin]

No.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay. I give him way more credit. You ever got hit by a baseball.

[Max Chavkin]

Especially in your foot? It hurts.

[Michael Kasson]

It hurts like hell. It kills. Yes. Todd.

[Max Chavkin]

The pitcher should be more mad at himself. And I know I only pitched baseball, Little League, so I'm not making any comparison other than to say if I was in that position, I'd first be mad at myself that I'd let it that close to a batter. But right behind that, I'd be like, dude, man. You know, I wouldn't approach the batter, but in my head, I'd be like, can't believe he couldn't move.

[Michael Kasson]

If I said to you, you're going to get on base getting hit by a pitch or you're going to strike out?

[Max Chavkin]

To me, it's not that black and white. It would depend on the situation.

[Michael Kasson]

No, the situation. Is it just a regular season game? Is it a World Series game? I think yesterday's situation, instinctually, I would.

[Max Chavkin]

Have kind of get out of the way if I see the ball curving towards my foot. Instinctual. Without even thinking about perfect games or bush league or what I would be. I would always look to get out of the way of getting hit by a pitch. That would just be an instinct.

[Michael Kasson]

But you could get on base.

[Max Chavkin]

I understand what you're saying, but it's also, like.

[Michael Kasson]

It's elimination.

[Max Chavkin]

This guy's dominating us. The only way we can get perfectly still and let this ball hit my.

[Michael Kasson]

It is true.

[Max Chavkin]

Weak.

[Michael Kasson]

That is true. Yes, Paul.

[Max Chavkin]

In the following inning, Wood hit a batsman and the batter dipped his elbow. At least the umpires called him for dipping his elbow into the pitch. That's an example, according to the umpires, of a guy not getting out of the way so much that he went into the pitch and they called him out because of it. The umpire missed one.

[Michael Kasson]

He should have said, dude, you could.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Have moved your foot out of the way.

[Michael Kasson]

He leaned into that.

[Max Chavkin]

That guy should have been out, too.

[Michael Kasson]

All right, we accomplished absolutely nothing right there. But Todd has set the tone once again, starting the show. Come on, let's rally here. Let's. Come on, let's go. Let's. Let's get together here. Bush not really around smattering.

[Max Chavkin]

We've had a lot of smatterings. Okay, you know what?

[Michael Kasson]

It's been week. It's Friday. Just get through the show.

[Max Chavkin]

I apologize if I made it feel like it should be Friday already, because it really is. It's only up to nine. Tuesday.

[Michael Kasson]

Yesterday, you made it feel like it was Friday. So you can imagine now it feels like it's Saturday.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, it feels like we're working on.

[Max Chavkin]

The weekend right now.

[Michael Kasson]

How about we take a break? It sounds like some kind of like.

[Max Chavkin]

Like a line you could write to.

[Michael Kasson]

Your wife or something, but goes wrong. Like, babe, you make every day feel like it's Friday, but for somebody here it doesn't work or something.

[Max Chavkin]

It's got a very negative connotation, the way he said it.

[Michael Kasson]

How about we take a break here, Larry?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Fox sports radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to listen live.

[Max Chavkin]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thanks.

[Max Chavkin]

And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and.

[Michael Kasson]

You still get to keep it.

[Max Chavkin]

There's always a trade in. Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously. Hmm. Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up.

[Max Chavkin]

To 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line, $100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and qualifying. Boarded for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and balance due. If you pay off earlier, cancel see t mobile.com A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news are show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business. From Bloomberg business week, I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek Smith. Every Friday we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like BusinessWeek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull. We'll take you inside the boardrooms, the back rooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

[Michael Kasson]

Hey, I want to learn about vechain. I want to buy some blockchain or.

[Max Chavkin]

Whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This medal is for the men who.

[Max Chavkin]

Went down that day.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's for the families of those who didn't make it.

[Max Chavkin]

I'm J.R. martinez. I'm a U.S. army veteran myself and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and I Heart podcast from Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known history. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a Lot of cops. And they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the Revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for good and the team that brought you Bone Valley, comes a story about what happened when a multi billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season one, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21 and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4 ad free at Lava for Good. Plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Michael Kasson]

He just won the US Open. He's JJ Spawn getting ready to join us on the program. I mentioned this yesterday that when we were at Pebble a couple years ago, he came up and introduced himself and I thought the line was just so, oh, There he is. JJ. JJ Spawn, official introduction here. JJ Spawn, U.S. open champ, joining us on the show. Do you remember how you introduced yourself to me at Pebble Beach a couple years ago?

[Max Chavkin]

Exactly. No. But I do remember being there with you.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah. You walked up and you said, I'm the other black guy on tour.

[Max Chavkin]

Yeah, yeah, I remember that now. I remember that.

[Michael Kasson]

Congratulations. Give me the second favorite shot that you hit at Oakmont.

[Max Chavkin]

The tee shot on 17 on Sunday.

[Michael Kasson]

But that was a. The risk and the reward there was. I mean, we've seen guys die in the rough there around 17, but there was no hesitation.

[Max Chavkin]

No, I mean, that was the strategy all week long is to send driver up there and just try to get up and down and actually hit almost an identical shot in the practice round on Tuesday, where I flagged it to about 20ft away. But it's a blind tee shot, so you can't see the grain. You can just see, like, the top half of the pin. And, you know, that was, that was the one shot that got me the lead and, you know, led me to victory.

[Michael Kasson]

But also, you're listening for the, the crowd's reaction to it. Since you can't see it, you can kind of differentiate between, oh, that was a good shot. That was a great shot. That was an unbelievable shot.

[Max Chavkin]

Exactly. And that's, that's exactly what happened. You know, you can't see anything. But there's tons of people up there, big grandstands. And I, you know, once I hit it, the ball kind of. You can see it one hop and then it disappears. And all you hear is just this growing roar. Stands and, you know, you can tell, like a clap would be like, okay, that's probably somewhere near the green. And then all of a sudden you hear, whoa. And you're building up like it's going in. Like, I literally thought I was gonna make the shot. And then it was like the, oh, like, adjustment. So I knew it was relatively close before I got on the green.

[Michael Kasson]

How do you pay back Victor Hovland for giving you the read on 18?

[Max Chavkin]

I got to give him a nice bottle of wine or something, whatever he wants. That was a nice teach. And I think that was just one of those things that has to go your way to win not only a championship, but a major championship. And I'm just happy to have capitalized on that, that little advantage.

[Michael Kasson]

How surprised were you that it went in, though?

[Max Chavkin]

Oh, stunned. I was. I mean, you can tell by my reaction that that putt going in, you know, my lab pot, my lab putter was so hot I had to toss it, you know, with that back nine finish. But I did, you know, I didn't. All I was trying to do, obviously, was get it to tap in. I didn't even want, like, a three footer, but when I hit it, I knew it was good pace. I just didn't know if it was the right line. It was raining and misty. You couldn't even really see the hole from that far away. And I'm glad I didn't have to tap in a little three footer for the win.

[Michael Kasson]

Do you retire that putter?

[Max Chavkin]

Heck no, Dan. Come on. That thing's been so hot for me. My lab putter has been one of the best kind of components of my game. That's always been a part of my, statistically my game where I've struggled. But I think it's been a great equalizer now, and it's kind of helped keep rounds going, whether it's making a clutch six footer to keep momentum going in the right direction during a round or. Or making a 64 footer to win the u. S. Open.

[Michael Kasson]

Talking to JJ Spine, US Open champ. Let's clear up the overnight CBS trip for your sick daughter. What. What exactly happened? And why can't you send your caddy to cvs?

[Max Chavkin]

I know it was a crazy sort of Sunday morning, early Sunday morning, where the. The tournament had a daycare provided for all the players. And she must have caught some sort of stomach bug from one of the other kids running around in the same classroom as her. And all we can hear in the other room next to us was her just kind of puking up stuff and crying. So we kind of tended to her, made sure she was okay, but she wasn't trying. She couldn't hold anything down. She's crying for water. Poor thing. She's 2 years old and, you know, little does she know, any sip of water kind of, you know, makes her feel worse. But yeah, I was up at 3:30, I was looking for 24 hour pharmacies, you know, did my best to get her what she needed. And you know, fortunately, you know, we, we got her some Pedialyte and we just tried to, you know, help her get on the mend. And she's doing a lot better now, though.

[Michael Kasson]

I smell a sponsorship there, Pedialyte. How important was the rain delay? Maybe that sounds strange to say, but was it a great opportunity for a reset?

[Max Chavkin]

It was huge. You know, I think if, if things were going the other way where I was like really hot starting off and kind of all of a sudden leading, that would be kind of the last thing you want. But it's almost like, you know, being down 20 points going into the, the halftime, you know, break, NBA final to kind of regroup, you know, get a game plan, reset. I even changed my clothes. I was like, I want to feel like a completely different person going out there because I had 10 holes to play. I was still four shots back. But it's the US Open, you know, like, people aren't running away with this tournament, and the field kind of tends to come back. But my team, my caddy, we all said, hey, if you were four back going into the back nine at the US Open on Monday, knowing that you would take it. So don't worry about your start. Let's just go back out there and try to execute our game plan.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay, but was there a point when you bogey five of the first six, where you go, well, I had a.

[Max Chavkin]

Good run, Yeah, I think on number number six when I couldn't, I. I've made one par on a par five, and it was still a grinding par. But I'm hitting, I'm hitting flag sticks, spinning off the green, hitting rakers, rakes that are bounding just outside the bunker where I can't even hit the ball. I was just like, okay, I guess it's not meant to be. But maybe that kind of helped me have the right mental aspect to where you know, if it's meant to be, it'll happen. If not, then I'll just take what it gives me.

[Michael Kasson]

Congratulations. A lot of fun. As Rich Lerner said on the Golf Channel, that you beat the best, but you beat the beast as well. That was Oakman.

[Max Chavkin]

I love that. Thank you, Dan. I'm so honored.

[Michael Kasson]

Congrats.

[Max Chavkin]

Thanks, dan. Thank you.

[Michael Kasson]

J.J. spahn, U.S. open champ.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

[Max Chavkin]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T Mobile will give you a new iPhone 16 Pro plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it. There's always a trade end. Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up.

[Max Chavkin]

To 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits. New line 100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement. $999.99 and qualify imported for well qualified plus tax and 10 connection charge. Payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and balance due if you pay off early or cancel. See t mobile.com A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business. From Bloomberg Business Week, I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek Smith. Every Friday we will be doing diving into the biggest stories in business. Taking a look at what's going on, why it matters and how it shows up in our everyday lives. Guests like BusinessWeek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the back rooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

[Michael Kasson]

Hey, I want to learn about vechain. I want to buy some blockchain or.

[Max Chavkin]

Whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This medal is for the men who.

[Max Chavkin]

Went down that day.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's for the families of those who didn't make it.

[Max Chavkin]

I'm J.R. martinez. I'm a U.S. army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet D. Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

[Michael Kasson]

And I'll say it seems like the.

[Max Chavkin]

Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun. Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season one, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 4, 1, 2 and 3 on May 21 and episodes 4, 5 and 6 on June 4 ad free at Lava for Good. Plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Michael Kasson]

Brian Scalabrine, Celtics analyst and co host of the starting LineUp on Sirius XM NBA Radio, won a title with the 08 Boston Celtics. Help me understand when a player is hurt. I don't know if he's injured, but he's hurt Tyrese Halliburton, and he hasn't played well. And you know you're going to play a game six back in Indiana, why have Tyrese Halliburton go out there and play the second half last night?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, I don't. I think that's up in the air. Hurt or injured. Right. If a guy is hurt and it's the NBA Finals, you can't punt on a game. So you just got to roll with it. I mean, they got it within two. They. There could have been a few things that could have happened. I know he wasn't playing well, but his impact was still there. Even you look at the play that Nemhard turned the ball over. They were still faceguarding Tyrese Halliburton 30, 45ft from the basket. So he was impacting the game. He was on a run. He's had those heroics throughout the playoffs. You got to roll the dice on that.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah, I just. I know I get another game. I want him to be really good in game six. I just don't want him to be kind of average the way he was last night. And the bench was unbelievable. Like, I would have stayed with that. And look, I'm sure Rick has far better intel than any of us of how Tyrese was really feeling. He couldn't even get shots off, though. Brian.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, he couldn't get by people. But Dan, you saw what he has done throughout the playoffs. If you're banking on A guy to help you if it's a close game, that's what you're banking on. And by the way, like, it wasn't him. Like, the nem hard turnovers, that little sequence right there, that was it. And they had it. I mean, they did a great job of cutting that back. T.J. mcConnell did a great job of like, just, you know, bringing the energy. But, you know, I just think with a guy like Halliburton, you never know. Listen, Michael Jordan during the flu game, he was out there playing and, you know, he kind of figured it out as. As he went. I'm not comparing the two, but it's just one of those things, like, you never know. And I don't think you can ever just say, like, well, live to fight another day. Especially when T.J. mcConnell and the. And that group, that bench group got him back into the game. I would have done the same thing with Halliburton.

[Michael Kasson]

Seems like OKC is going against the analytics because they're not about shooting threes. Yeah, I don't know what they're doing to basketball. They may ruin basketball as we know it because they're not firing up threes.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Or they could be saving basketball. And I mean, they won a game when they. They made three three pointers. You know, it's a copycat league. I think the pendulum kind of swung too far. Everyone trying to copy the Boston Celtics. It would be really interesting to see if there's a few teams out there. You've noticed that the Orlando Magic just acquired Desmond Vane and they're not a great three point shooting team, but they are a great rim attack team and they are a great defensive team. So, you know, maybe we should look at that team a little bit differently now. Now that teams are doing a much better job of guarding the three and taking the three away.

[Michael Kasson]

You're part of the Celtics broadcast team. What kind of changes. Any big changes in the off season for Boston?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, I mean, I think the. It was one of those moments, like when Tatum went down with the injury. I think their path would have looked very different this year than when now that, like, we don't know if he's going to miss the entire year. But the collective bargaining agreement, the second apron, the punitive repeater tax, like, they just don't make it feasible to keep these teams together anymore. So I don't know who's the guy. I don't know if it's Holiday or Porzingis or both or Brown. You know, like, I don't know what's going to happen. I just know that the Celtics are going to make a conscious effort to get underneath that tax and we'll. We'll kind of. Kind of. We'll see what they end up doing after that. But it kind of gave him a natural reset with Tatum getting hurt.

[Michael Kasson]

Is Kevin Durant still that attractive?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, and it's hard when you have. So there's a few things. Right. So they're in the second apron. You can't aggregate salaries unless the team has space. So you have to take a young team with cap space. And yet if they have cap space, they usually have, like, a few good players. Yeah. Phoenix wants those good players. So, like, when you add it all up, and if Kevin Durant was 30, it'd be very different, but when you add it all up, it's going to be a weird trade and the Phoenix Suns are not going to get the value they need. And the teams are going to say, we're fine. We don't need Kevin Durant. You better take what we give out there. It's not anything we've ever experienced before. Remember those trades? Nine players for two. Those things can't happen anymore with the way the rules are so complicated. Yes. Talk to general managers or scouts or all these people that know the cap like, it's. There's not as many options out there for Kevin Durant where he could pick his pick and choose where he wants to go, and then Phoenix doesn't have to send him to the places he wants to go. So I think this trade is very, very complicated.

[Michael Kasson]

And it feels like nobody cares about draft picks anymore.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

They do. They do.

[Michael Kasson]

If you're in the lottery, you care after that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

All right. So do you feel, Dan, that the east is wide open with Indiana making this run? Wouldn't you say, like.

[Michael Kasson]

Yes.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay. Like, no one picked Indiana to win a championship. I mean, make maybe one person out of a hundred. Right. So I just think that that puts a lot of pressure on these other organizations. And what do you want? Like, let's. The Desmond Bain deal is a pick this year, a pick next year, and two players that probably can't help you win a championship. Let's just throw that out there. Caldwell Pope, you would think, yes, but he missed shots, so let's just say no. Well, that can end up being like $40 million of salary the next two years, and you're not sure that those guys are going to help you get over the hump. Now, you could send all that, send a couple more assets, and you're getting a Guy like Desmond Bain where you feel like you can. So I think that teams, because of Tatum's injury, because of what Indiana did, maybe the fact that you don't need all this three point shooting. I think teams think about nice. Smith and Nemhardt, like second round pick and a guy the Celtics traded are starting in the NBA Finals and they have a chance to win a championship. I think it fast forwards a lot of timelines out there.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah, I agree. The east is open. I don't know if I could say the Knicks are, you know, going back to the Eastern Conference finals. If the Celtics were healthy, then they don't get their Cavaliers. It feels like, you know, all things fell into place for the Knicks. I still believe though, Brian, that the Knicks were going to fire Tom Thibodeau before the playoffs started. They were going to fire him. Then all of a sudden you have success, which, you know, the optics were bad. Like, oh my God, he got you to the Eastern Conference finals. I just think he, he won his way into good favor with the fans of the reaction, but management wasn't going to keep him. And then they don't have a successor. That's what's surprising right now.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, the whole thing is strange. And the goal post was classically moved here. You got to beat Detroit or you're going to get fired. Oh, you can't get blown out by the Celtics or you're going to get fired. Then you beat the Celtics and somehow all of a sudden, like we look at the Pacers, I think we all can agree, like no one has analyzed that team correctly. They're really good. They guard, they move it. Tyrese Halliburton's good. And when they lost to the Pacers, somehow like the management spun it like the Pacers weren't a good basketball team. So I just, I, I think, I think you're right. They had it in their mind and they were just looking for a reason to do it.

[Michael Kasson]

Brian Scalabrini Celtics analyst for NBC Sports Boston co host of the starting lineup on Sirius XM NBA Radio Give me your non white guy comp for Cooper Flag.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, I don't do the white guy thing. I think it's LeBron James, but he's without having be to be like 260 pound and like a freight train. Cooper flag is a supercomputer, Dan. He's a supercomputer. Everything you tell him within 24 hours, he figured it out. The next time you tell him something else. I was working him out in Maine on day two. I Pretty much came to him and his parents and said, listen, I can't help you anymore.

[Michael Kasson]

You need to reach out, explain how this happened.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So his trainer and me are really close friends. When Cooper was not even a high school student yet, he was a freshman, but he hasn't played a high school game. Cooper came down to play in my pickup game down here in Boston. You know, it's about a three hour drive, maybe four hour drive. We came down and he wanted the, his trainer wanted me to get my eyes on Cooper and he told me I got a 13 year old that could play against humane kids and he could hold his own. And Dan, I'm, I don't believe that for one second. It's another over exaggeration of a kid, but after seeing him, I totally believe it. And he said it would always be the same thing. He'd kind of take like 15, 20 minutes to figure it out. And then he's like right there neck and neck with 23 year olds, 22 year olds, when he's 13 years old. Right? I saw it for myself. It was the same thing when he came down and played with us. And from then on, like, I kind of like made some phone calls like John Shire and, and, and, and USA Basketball to like. No, I don't think you guys understand. This guy is like, I've never seen anything like that before. And over time I've been close to him and worked him out and stuff like that. And they got to a point where I just couldn't help him anymore. He was just too good. He just picked things up. Workouts are supposed to be challenging and you're supposed to push guys to do something better than they normally can. And he just kept mastering every single thing. And you talk around, around the NBA and you talk around about guys, they're always saying LeBron is like that. Like LeBron can act like he's not paying attention and shoot around and he can call every action, every play and what they're trying to get and how they got this on with 436 to go at this much in the fourth quarter, so watch out for it. And he's kind of like not even engaged. So I, I'm not saying Cooper's like not engaged, but I'm just saying I've never met and I've been around a lot of players, I've been around hall of Fame players. I've never met someone that just can pick up things at such a high rate. And I think that that's. And when people talk about NBA players, they wonder how this guy make it. And this guy's 611 and he's long and he's athletic, but he doesn't make it. A lot of it has to do with their computer, their processor, and he just processes on a rate that I've never seen before. So I'm only assuming that it's like LeBron James.

[Michael Kasson]

What's the best performance you ever witnessed in person?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Probably LeBron in Game 6 against the Celtics when they were down 3, 2 against in Miami. And he just came in and like 45, 13 and 9 and he didn't even break a sweat. It was probably that I saw Paul Pierce when I was playing with the Nets. He had a subpar first half and he dropped 48 in the second half in overtime. And I couldn't believe it. I could not believe what I was watching. And I, I didn't think like Wilt Chandler could score 100 points in a game. I thought that that's crazy. Then I watched Pierce score in the second half, 48 in overtime. So that was up there. And then I seen a Vince Carter eight minute flurry of like 25 points or something like that in the first quarter. And I was on his team at that time. Like, like otherworldly performances.

[Michael Kasson]

It's weird when I watch Paul Pierce because I don't know if he does anything, he did anything really well other than score. Like he, he's just meant to be a scorer. And I watch SGA and now SGA can get to the hoop in mid range jumper, but there's no highlights there. They're just certain guys who are scorers who do it in a methodical way that you know what's happening. It's not I'm going above, you know, I'm the rim or any, you know, crossing you over. Crazy. And Pierce and SGA kind of remind me of each other.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That's funny that you bring that up because I actually he reminds me a lot of Jalen Williams, like the guy who just scored 40 last night. I'm like, it's Jalen Williams, like a more athletic Paul Pierce. But Dan, it comes down to this. And SGA is in this category and there's a few guys that are in this category. It's the ability to navigate space with people on your body. Like typically when you are, you know, like you are playing defense and you have a guy on your body and you can dictate them, right? That's what we do for a living. Like that's how we guard. But Paul was never affected by that, no matter. He, like, almost looks and seeks out contact and encounters contact. And that's what makes those guys, like you said, they're not. When you're on a guy's body, it's hard to elevate way above the rim. Like, it happens with separation. Michael Jordan, the greatest player ever, because he separates and because that when he separates, he can elevate. Well, those guys don't separate, but they stay connected. But they can navigate their space while connected. That's what makes those guys special, but also doesn't create super highlights.

[Michael Kasson]

Who's the best scorer? Who is the worst defender?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The best scorer? Who is the worst offender? I mean, it's got to be some guy that doesn't play well.

[Michael Kasson]

No, you can have, like, you know, Barkley wasn't a good defender or Larry Bird wasn't a good defender.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's going to be based off of size.

[Michael Kasson]

Like, Iverson didn't, you know, really play defense.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I.

[Michael Kasson]

When played against Ion, he had steals.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah. You can't throw the ball anywhere near his vicinity. I. You know what? Like, I'll tell you a guy that I covered and this. I don't want to be disrespectful to Isaiah Thomas, but he was a sick scorer, and he. It's not like he didn't try. He did try, but he's like five nine. Right. I think it's more about that. Like, people talk about James Harden. James Harden's big as hell and he has quick hands, so you could say he doesn't defend or anything like that. But he's long, he's big. His size comes into play most of the time in the NBA, when a guy can't defend, it's hard to even pick up. It's. It's the cumulative effect of 100 possessions of a guy being short with short arms, that becomes an issue. But. But those. Those big, strong guys, like Barkley was the defensive rebounder. You can give him credit for that. Right. There's a lot that goes into it, but being an undersized guard, it's really challenging.

[Michael Kasson]

Yeah, I brought that up. You know, Kendrick Perkins brought up that Joker wasn't a good defender, and therefore he shouldn't be the mvp. Whenever that was a couple years ago. And I said that's silly, because it's called a defensive rebound.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Kasson]

And he's a really good rebounder. But. But all of a sudden, Joel Embiid should win because apparently he played more defense, I guess, than Joker. I just find it. We Pick and choose on who plays defense and who doesn't, or we're going to call them out because they don't play defense. Steph Curry doesn't play defense. I mean, he plays the passing lanes.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, I mean, he's not. He's not awful. He's in world class shape and he's strong as hell. So I. I think. I think the limitations for these guys are going to be based off of size. Like Jalen Brunson in the playoffs, you.

[Michael Kasson]

Know, like now he's not a good.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Defender, but it's just based off of size. Like, it just adds up over time. Every pass is not as contested. Every rebound. Everything adds up when you are dealing with guys who are small. But it's also credit to those guys how remarkable they could be as players.

[Michael Kasson]

Okay, wait a minute. How about Carl Anthony Towns? He can't play defense.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I don't know. Go watch the. Go watch the Denver series. Last year he was pretty good.

[Michael Kasson]

I saw him this year.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I know, but putting. Getting him dancing in a pick and roll with Tyrese Halliburton.

[Michael Kasson]

I know. You got to be careful because.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

No, no, I don't have to be careful. I'm saying, like. Like it's one of these things. Rudy Gobert last year, here's a great example of that. Rudy Gobert and Luka Doncic. Everyone's killing Gobert on that. Gobert is one of the most defense, the best defensive players of our generation impact wise. But he gets isolated two times on Luca and they think he's terrible. That's a small snapshot of what a guy does. His size is a factor.

[Michael Kasson]

So it's like Luka doesn't play good defense.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

No. For his size, he doesn't play good defense. You know what? You know what, Dan? You just solved the equation. He's probably the best scorer. Who doesn't guard.

[Michael Kasson]

There you go.

[Max Chavkin]

There you go.

[Michael Kasson]

We eventually got around to it. All right. Hopefully I didn't get you in trouble.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I probably will be. Every time I'm on your show, I get in trouble.

[Michael Kasson]

Thank you, Brian.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

All right, see you, Dan.

[Michael Kasson]

That's Ryan Scalabrini.

[Max Chavkin]

A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to. Yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, Our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chasten. And I'm Stacey Vanek. Smith so listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This medal is for the men who.

[Max Chavkin]

Went down that day on Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. You'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Michael Kasson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good.

[Michael Kasson]

Company, the podcast where I sit down.

[Max Chavkin]

With the boldest innovators shaping what's next.

[Michael Kasson]

In this episode I'm joined by Anjali.

[Max Chavkin]

Sud, CEO of Tubi.

[Michael Kasson]

We dive into the competitive world of streaming.

[Max Chavkin]

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There's so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

[Michael Kasson]

Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio.

[Max Chavkin]

App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the youe versus you podcast. I'm Lex Borrero inviting you to go beyond the titles and the accolades of the world's most successful entertainers. Each week we take off the cape and get real about the inner battles, childhood stories and the moments that shaped our guests. Get inspired to become the best version of you. Listen to youo vs you podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michael Kasson]

I also wanna address the Tonys on.

[Max Chavkin]

A recent episode of Checking in with Michelle Williams.

[Michael Kasson]

I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards.

[Max Chavkin]

Do I? I was never mad.

[Michael Kasson]

I was disappointed because I had high.

[Max Chavkin]

Hopes to hear this and more on disappointment and protecting your peace. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart podcast.