Luke de Kock (3:10)

You're killing it here, Luke. I like this. The. Are they going to do a Jordan brand logo with her? I think they've.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (3:18)

My sense is, you know, the athletic had a story today about how the hard knocks thing felt or really sort of the TikTok and not really a why or a how, but sort of that the hard knocks thing fell apart. My sense is North Carolina has spent more man, woman, person hours on Jordan Hudson related issues in the last four months than they ever possibly could have expected. Lawyers, PR people, athletic department people. I mean, I wrote a story, a column a couple of weeks ago about they've got a dozen people listed on the UNC system staff payroll website who are identified as members of the football staff. This is sort of Mike Lombardi's team, the GM office, the front office, they're all identify as football people on social media. Unc, the athletics, they're not on the athletic department website. Their hirings have never been announced. And when I asked the athletic director's chief of staff what was going on, her response was, we're looking into it. So it's like Rocco Lampone building his secret regime and the Godfather. Nobody really knows what's going on. There's no oversight as far as anyone can tell. And this whole thing is kind of, you know, it's like a Tesla on auto drive. You just don't know what it's going to hit first.

Luke de Kock (4:28)

Okay. The local media and their availability or Bill's availability to you is what about what you'd expect.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (4:38)

We talked to him before the start of spring practice. We talked to him when he was hired. As far as I know maybe, you know, Mike Lombardi has been available once on signing day. He spoke to the fans on their, their spring game. They did practice like a pro, like he used to do with the Patriots. He spoke to the fans, but not to the media. So it's, it, you know, it took him two months to do UNC's own internal podcast. So, you know, even the, the, the, the, the stuff that the school wants him to do hasn't exactly been easy coming. But I, I think we all expected that, right? Like, this is, there's no NFL access rules here. You're not required to meet after a OTA or a certain number. You know, he's, it says in his contract he has to fulfill media responsibilities, but there's absolutely no way to enforce that. So, you know, we may not even. Who knows, we may not talk to him after practices in August. We may not talk to him after games. We may only talk to him after games. That's, that's all up in the air right now. It's, It's. But in that respect, it's sort of.

Luke de Kock (5:36)

Been what you expect is Luke De Kock. He covers North Carolina football. He covers sports there in the Raleigh, North Carolina area. Raleigh News and Observer sports columnist. I wanted to be fair to Belichick in this situation. If I was in the chair, I'm interviewing him. She's interrupting. Like, she is becoming part of the story. But the story is supposed to be Belichick has written a book about winning football games, not about her. But when does she become fair game in this story, in the CBS story where you have to include her?

Dan Patrick (6:14)

I.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (6:14)

That's a terrific question. And like, I have not written about her. I have not written a column about her. I may mention her when he got hired that his, you know, girlfriend was sitting with these trustees who sort of pushed this higher through because it, you know, look, football coaches, wives, any coach's wife, any coach's husband, if you want to, you know, they have an impact on these things. But, like, typically, you know, Matt Brown would always refer to, you know, Sally and I made the decision to come back, and he genuinely believed that it was a team partnership there. But you didn't get a sense that Sally was vetting his interviews or watching film and at night and, you know, I mean, at this point, would anyone be shocked if Jordan Hudson Post on Instagram? I'm so excited. Bill has decided to switch to a base nickel. This is going to be great for the football program. Like, no, no one would at this point. So when you start to do it. Like, as I mentioned earlier, UNC's brand is at stake here. They hired Bill Belichick to sell tickets and put butts in seats and eyeballs on screen as much as win football games. And when it becomes a sideshow, when your athletic department becomes a Jordan Hudson management program instead of a football program, that when. That is when it becomes a story. And the fact that I haven't actually sort of put pen to paper yet is really a function of the fact that the Carolina Hurricanes are in the playoffs and we had a double overtime game last night, and that's soaking up a lot of my attention. But the CBS News interview, to me, where you start raising questions about what this meet cute that was supposedly established on the plane with the book, and now she's saying, we won't talk about that, and there are questions about, you know, who's actually in charge here. You know, I think that, to me, starts to cross that Rubicon of this becomes a football issue. You know, can Bill Belichick focus on winning at a program that, you know, has come close so many times under Butch Davis and Larry Fedora and Mack Brown twice? If he's, you know, promoting a book and doing all these other things, what's. What's Bill Belichick's focus and what's her role in directing that focus? The fact that a football coach doesn't know what's on social media about him, as he claimed in cbs, these guys care about what's on the monitors in the lunchroom. Like, they dictate every single aspect of a program. That's true in the pros, it's true in college. So there's a lot of sort of questions now that need answers. And to me, that's. That's the line you cross, right. That becomes not writing about his personal life, which obviously there are people who write about his personal life for a living. But for me, as a sports columnist, when it sort of gets into decision making and who's in charge, what does this mean for the football program? You know, there is a line that's crossed there.

Luke de Kock (8:41)

Would you rather sit down and interview Bill or his girlfriend?

Unnamed Sports Columnist (8:46)

I would still like to know from Bill why, you know, I asked him that at his initial press conference. At what point in your mind did you sort of switch from I, this is how I would run my next NFL program to oh, how would I run a college program? Is literally the only good answer he gave in that entire press conference. But I want to know, like, what possesses you at this age with a young girlfriend who you guys seem to be having the time of your lives out there, you know, even if she's calling the shots, he seems to be, you know, seems to be working for him in that respect. Why would you want to take on a program that is, you know, at a basketball school that faces huge structural hurdles? I mean, there's a reason why neither North Carolina or NC State or Duke has won an ACC title in football in 30 years when they've won national titles and gone to Final Fours in literally every other sport. Women's lacrosse, field hockey, women's basketball, wrestling, swimming. All three schools have been in the Final Four the last five years in men's basketball. So football has been this outlier and we can go on forever about why that is. It has to do with so many football programs in a state, plus Tennessee and South Carolina and Clemson all skimming the cream off the top. But the reality is, why would you take that on? You have a very good life. Wait for an NFL job to open up, be a gm you know, write books about how you're the greatest winner and greatest leader ever. Don't go to this perennial sleeping giant football program. And plus, maybe, you know, maybe if someone offered me this much money to do it, I would, too.

Luke de Kock (10:16)

Over under 1 and a half years for Belichick at North Carolina.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (10:20)

Under. I thought you were going to say wins. That was going to push me.

Luke de Kock (10:26)

That's quick answer there, Luke.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (10:28)

It's going to be a beautiful disaster, Dan. Like a Monkey flying a 737. We all know how it's going to end, but we don't know how we're going to get there.

Luke de Kock (10:35)

How about a round of applause for Luke's appearance? Great job. There you go, Luke. Thank you, Luke.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (10:42)

Appreciate it.

Dan Patrick (10:43)

Thank you.

Luke de Kock (10:43)

Luke de Kock, he is columnist for the Raleigh News and Observer. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows@foxsportsradio.com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

Steve Covino (11:00)

Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on FOX Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that well other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

Luke de Kock (11:57)

You don't need a game to have a party. You don't need a game to have a tailgate. What you do need for both of them IS MILLER Light 50 years, 50 year anniversary. And I said, you know, it's Miller time and that means it's time to go to Lambeau. We're going to drafts at the drafts. It's a taste you can depend on. You have a great beer trusted by beer lovers for five decades. You have the malted barley for rich balanced toffee note flavors. Iconic golden color. You pour that and you go, hmm, man that looks good. Tastes good. 96 calories, just 3.2 grams of carbs per 12 ounces. Miller time. Always good time. It's a great time for me. The original light beer since 1975. Still iconic after 50 years. So Miller Light. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com Patrick. You'll find the delivery options near you, or you can pick up Miller Lite just about anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Here's to Miller Lite.

Rich Davis (12:59)

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Dan Patrick (13:29)

And the dream season is now complete.

Luke de Kock (13:32)

The Golden State warriors are the 2015 NBA champions.

Charles Barkley (13:36)

On the new limited podcast series Dub dynasty. It's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible.

Dan Patrick (13:44)

It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being.

Charles Barkley (13:48)

Benched for the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run. Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Luke de Kock (14:02)

Let's bring in Ross Tucker, our good buddy Ross. First question, what's Bill Belichick doing?

Ross Tucker (14:10)

Dan? I have no idea. I mean, if you would have told me or any of us that played for the Patriots that at some day he'd be doing an interview and there would be anyone, you know, anyone, forget it. Being a, however old she is, 24 year old young woman, anyone to the side kind of telling him what to say, what not to say, what topics they can talk about, what they can't. That is not the guy that, that we played for. Now that was a long time ago. That was 2005, 2006 for me. So it's like 20 years ago. But it's very, very surprising to see someone else having this level of control and or involvement with what Coach Belichick does.

Luke de Kock (14:59)

How much of a control freak was he when you were in New England?

Ross Tucker (15:05)

Well, I don't know. On a scale of 1 to 10, he was a 20. You know, I mean, picture this, Daniel, you'll appreciate this. Okay, two stories. I'll tell you about Belichick and his desire for control. Every morning he would walk on the treadmill incline and he would read the clips of everything that was said about the Patriots and everything that was said about the opponent. And then the first time you meet with the media as a player is Wednesday at lunch. So in the Wednesday morning team meeting, he would tell you exactly what the storylines were for the week, what questions you're going to be asked and what your response was to be. So we played Jacksonville in the 05 wild card round and was going to be really cold in Foxborough. So the first thing he said, he said, they're all going to ask you about the weather. Weather is no factor. It's the same for both teams. I mean, he was by far the most conscious of and involved in media relations of any coach I was ever with, which I thought was fascinating that he cared that much. I didn't really understand why he cared that much. But he micromanaged any comments that any players made to the media. So it's really interesting that now see him on the kind of wearing the other shoe and now he's the one more or less being micromanaged with these media interviews.

Luke de Kock (16:35)

He's Ross Tucker. The Ross Tucker Football podcast also calls games for CBS Westwood One and you can check him out on social media @ Ross Tucker, NFL let's look at the draft here. How should Travis Hunter be used his rookie year?

Ross Tucker (16:52)

That is the million dollar question. I love that the Jaguars went up to get him, but you can't move up and give up that many assets unless he is going to play both ways and you feel like you have a good plan for him to play both ways. I know you know Dan, I did that Colorado, Colorado State game last year for cbs. I'm on record on my show and elsewhere saying he's the best college football player I've ever seen. So 40 plus years of watching college football, you know, with the uptempo offenses, he was playing over 120 snaps a game. That is just nuts. And I'm fascinated to see whether or not he can play both at nearly as high of a level in the NFL. He has the chance. I'm not going to do the whole James Gladstone thing where like you know, a belief in football and I'm not going to give you the speech that the Jaguars GM gave, but he has the potential to be like the Steph Curry of football. Dan, you know how you go to like a 6th grade CYO basketball game now and these kids are all shooting like 25 foot threes because of Steph Curry. If Travis Hunter can do this, all these five star recruits are going to tell Ohio State and Alabama, I want to play both ways. I want to be on both sides of. I mean this guy might change the sport. The interesting thing in particular with Jacksonville, would you rather have a guy that's very good at two positions or elite at one? And everybody agrees that you're better off being a full time corner and a part time receiver. But most people will also tell you he's further along as a receiver. I think the Jags needed a corner more than anything else. I think he's a full time corner and they already have Brian Thomas from last year. He'll be a part time receiver who I think they'll feel like they'll get a lot of value out of clearly.

Luke de Kock (18:54)

But I think that considering what they gave up to go get him, he has to play both positions. Like I have to get a Shohei Ohtani out there. I have to have people who show up and they Want to see him as a receiver and a defensive back. I think that's. That's lost in a lot of people in how they assess. This is like, hey, I love him. I think he's great. But I also am in the entertainment business. I gotta have him out there playing both. Both sides of the ball.

Ross Tucker (19:25)

There's no doubt. And of course, he's from Georgia, played high school ball in Florida, so he's got the connections down there as well locally. I think that's how the Jaguars look at it. Number one, he gives them a tremendous amount of buzz with the new regime from a business perspective. But number two, I think what they would tell you, Dan, is, yes, we gave up next year's first round pick. Guess what? Next year's first round pick is Travis Hunter, the cornerback. This year's first round pick was Travis Hunter, the receiver. I truly believe that that's how they look at it.

Luke de Kock (19:59)

Okay, all right, give me your theory on Shador Sanders slide.

Ross Tucker (20:05)

Well, there's a couple things there. Number one, I think the biggest thing then, and you know this, like, the way you conduct yourself, the way you treat people, it matters, right? I haven't talked about this that much, just because I don't think it's that big a deal. But it's a. It's a. It's a small story, right? So last year, I think, you know, I did that Colorado, Colorado State game for cbs. I referenced it with Hunter, right. But I was doing Bill's Dolphins on radio Thursday night for Westwood One, but I wanted to make sure I was locked in for the TV game. I flew out on Tuesday night to Denver. I was told that I could talk to Shador after Wednesday's practice for Colorado. I go to the practice. I'm in Boulder after the practice, I'm told, well, he got banged up against Nebraska. He needs to get treatment. Can't meet with you, but he'll meet with you Friday at the production meeting. Okay, no problem. Go to Buffalo, do the game. Flyback. Friday, production meeting. We talked to Dion. He was great. The coordinators, no, Shador. We weren't really given a reason, but we did not talk to Shador at the production meetings, which, as you know, starting quarterback, especially high profile player like that, very unusual. I walk out of the hotel and there's a pickup truck in front of the hotel. And Shador is just sitting in the back of the pickup truck. And I kind of regret not going up to him and just saying, introducing myself, hey, Shador, I'm Ross. Nice to meet you. Or ask him why he didn't do the production meeting. But it just made me wonder, Dan, like people asked me, NFL people asked me after that game, what did you think of Shador? And I said, I didn't get to talk to him. Maybe he's the greatest kid ever. Maybe he's a bad kid, I don't know. But I told them the story and they just kind of nodded their head and it just made me wonder, Dan, how many stories are there like that in which Shidore did things that were not customary? He did things non traditionally. It certainly seemed like that was the deal with a lot of the combine interviews and meetings with teams and especially at that position. I think it makes them very nervous that already in college he was getting out of things that you're supposed to be doing. What's he going to be like if he's a first round pick in the NFL draft?

Luke de Kock (22:24)

But if he had Cam Ward's talent, would we be overlooking all of this?

Ross Tucker (22:30)

If he had Cam Ward's talent, he still would have been a first round pick. I think that the Titans would have taken Cam Ward instead of him, meaning the intangibles, the way he carries himself, that stuff matters. But if he was that talented, I believe the Brown to the Giants at three, they would have taken him because also that's the other part of this. You're okay with having that level of attention if it's your top five pick, your starting quarterback that goes along with that. Once the Giants decided they like Dart more than Shador and the Saints decided they like Chuck more than Shador, which by the way, a lot of people came on my show, the Raw soccer podcast, and said they had Dart ahead of Shador or they had shock head of Shador. So I can live with those. But once those three teams made that decision, then he was only going to get drafted to be a backup. And we know this from Kaepernick, from Tebow. Nobody wants the most high profile player on the team to be the backup quarterback. Nobody wants a lightning rod polarizing backup quarterback. And I got to tell you, Dan, no, I have no proof of this. I'm convinced that Aaron Rodgers told the Steelers, hey, I'm coming, I'll play for you, but don't take the Sanders kid because Aaron doesn't want to deal with that. Aaron doesn't want the first time he has a bad game people calling for the Steelers to put Shador Sanders in. Whether he said something or not. I will believe forever that Aaron Rodgers made it known to the Steelers. He did not want Shador Sanders in that quarterback room and have to deal with that and what might be his last year in the NFL.

Luke de Kock (24:11)

I'll leave you with this. And the more I've thought about it, the more I'm surprised at this. They didn't have an agent for Shador. You have Dion, who is a big cheerleader for his son. His son is listening to his dad pump him up. His dad during super bowl week is talking about, I've talked to teams and hey, I might be steering him in a different direction here. All of this is going on. There's nobody really to tell him what reality is because you're there at Colorado with your dad, you're driving an expensive car, you get to do what you want. Like, that's not reality. This is reality. When you go to talk somebody and they want to know who you are, not who your dad is, they want to know, can you do this? What am I getting here as a person? And that's what really surprises me, that it doesn't sound like somebody was there to be that voice who was going to be the contrarian to say, hey, you didn't interview well. Hey, this is what I'm hearing because I think reporters were really nervous of giving the true story of what was going on. Because I think you had one who came out. Maybe it was Todd McShay. And all of a sudden it's like, hey, I'm hearing he had a bad interview and the blowback was, oh, now they're, now we're coming out and going after Chador. I even said it on the show. It feels like there was a smear campaign going on quietly. And then all of a sudden it start now it's coming to the surface. But I kept thinking, where is this coming from? And then we finally found out there are some people attaching their names to what was going on. I'm just amazed they didn't have somebody who was going to play the bad cop to everybody's good cop in this situation.

Ross Tucker (25:58)

Well, and not only that, Dan, you just made a fantastic point because every guy with an agent, they get prepped for the combine interviews. So. So not only is it the part where he could have had someone to tell him the truth after the interviews or during the pre draft process, it's pretty clear nobody told him how to conduct himself in those interviews and he failed them miserably. I mean, I've had people say that he went into those interviews, Dan, as if he had the leverage, right? As if he was in control of the situation. Boy, that does not go over real well.

Luke de Kock (26:36)

Yeah.

Ross Tucker (26:36)

Those guys, imagine being you interview 100 guys at the combine. Only one of them acts like his, you know what doesn't stink and acts like he can, he can control and say whatever he wants to say. He didn't have someone to prep him properly for those interviews and it cost him dearly. I mean we learned this spring how important the pre draft process is for quarterbacks. Especially with, I mean Quinn, yours and these guys going down. Shocking. Gabriel, going up. What you do in the spring. Yes. After the season, it matters.

Luke de Kock (27:13)

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm, I, I was told that, that there was this a scenario where Shador made the person people interviewing him feel like you got to recruit me.

Ross Tucker (27:26)

Yeah.

Luke de Kock (27:27)

Like I, I, I'm not sure if I want to go to your, your team. Why don't you tell me why I want to go to your team. There was that sense of entitlement. Now that was one situation. I don't know what happened elsewhere, but you're right, it does play. It did play a pretty big role here. Great to talk to you as always. Thanks for joining us.

Ross Tucker (27:47)

Of course. Great seeing you. Thank you, man.

Luke de Kock (27:49)

That's Ross Tucker. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Rich Davis (28:00)

T Mobile stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service report in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card has no cash access and expires in six months.

Dan Patrick (28:31)

And the dream season is now complete.

Luke de Kock (28:33)

The Golden State warriors are the 2015.

Charles Barkley (28:36)

NBA champions on the new limited podcast series Dub dynasty. It's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible.

Dan Patrick (28:46)

It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being.

Charles Barkley (28:49)

Benched for the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run. Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Luke de Kock (29:03)

He is the star of Inside the NBA hall of Famer Charles Barkley back on the program. Chuck, good to see you finish this sentence. If the Lakers lose tonight.

Dan Patrick (29:18)

The Lakers, I told you two months ago, six weeks, the Lakers aren't a good team. They got two really, really good players, but not a good team. ESPN just swings on them like they choke, like, like everything. Chased like chicken. But the Lakers are not a good team. They're going to lose either this round or next round, but more likely this round. But they just. They're not very good.

Luke de Kock (29:42)

What do you think the future, like, if you're. Let's say you're Luca and you look around. JJ didn't play anybody off the bench. LeBron's got maybe two more years left. If you're.

Dan Patrick (29:55)

The Lakers are not going to be a contender with the team they have now. Your. Your best player can't be 40 or. I just don't think that's. That's. That makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, your best player can't be 40. I mean, and JJ was wrong the other night to play those guys the entire second half because, number one, it's probably going to affect them tonight. It definitely affected him down the stretch the other night. You know, both of those guys missed layups and, and they made some mental mistakes with the ball. So, no, this is. This is not the Lakers year. And people think I hate on the Lakers. I told you. I said Lakers aren't a good team, but ESPN was just swinging on them like they were damn King Kong. And so.

Luke de Kock (30:42)

But, but if you're Luca, do you want to stay? Do you want to resign? If you're looking around at what you have with the. Austin, Reeves, a nice player, but what are you going to build on when LeBron's gone?

Dan Patrick (30:55)

Well, I don't know the answer to that question, first and foremost, but I don't think he can go anywhere. I mean, he's going to be a Laker probably for life from this point going forward.

Luke de Kock (31:05)

Okay. All right. I was, you know, Dan.

Dan Patrick (31:09)

Dan, you know, the clowns of the espn, they always make me laugh because.

Luke de Kock (31:14)

Wait, aren't you going to be working there? And like, yeah, but.

Dan Patrick (31:17)

But, you know, I'm going to be a straight shooter. It's interesting how they were discussing Giannis this week. Like, should Giannis want to leave? I'm like, I clearly don't remember when I played. I don't remember saying, we need to get Charles Barkley some help in Philadelphia or Phoenix or Karl Malone some help in Utah, Patrick Ewing some help in New York. And I Remember guys in the media kissing my ass and Carl's ass and Patrick ass, like, well, Giannis should want to leave Milwaukee now because he can't win the championship. I wonder what all the guys were when I played, asking me to get some help. I mean, they were kissing. They were like, loving the Lakers, loving the Celtics, loving Michael, loving the Pistons. But I don't remember all these kiss asses back in the day saying, you know, we need to get Charles Barkley some help because he can't win a championship in Philly or Phoenix. But it makes me laugh. They're like, no, Giannis got to leave Milwaukee. You know, that already started like, wow, y'all were concerned about us other great players back in our day, but y'all all of a sudden now y'all like, oh, Yanis has got to leave Milwaukee now. His championship window closed. I'm like, man, thanks for helping me out when I went out there with nobody.

Luke de Kock (32:38)

You had a great team in Phoenix.

Dan Patrick (32:41)

We had a really good team in Phoenix.

Luke de Kock (32:42)

You guys should have won the title that year.

Dan Patrick (32:45)

No, Michael was better, Mike was better.

Luke de Kock (32:48)

But you guys had a better team than the Bulls.

Dan Patrick (32:51)

It was a pick em series, but Michael was the greatest ever. And then the next two years, Akeem was better than me when it counted. So. Hey, listen, all I wanted, one reason I got out of Philadelphia, I just wanted a chance. I had three chances at it, and we lost to the champs three years in a row. That's all you want. But I don't want to stack my team ever. That I. I'm always be against super teams, period.

Luke de Kock (33:17)

And I'm watching last night, you guys, after the Pacers game, and Shaq is blaming Giannis for the altercation. The incident with Tyrese Halliburton's dad.

Dan Patrick (33:29)

Yeah, that was. Shaq was 100% wrong and stupid on that subject. I've never. Dad, I've never seen that number one. I want to thank Tyrese for coming out, apologizing, and then I want to thank his dad for coming out and apologizing. Like, I never seen that before in my. I'm over 40 years in the NBA. I've never seen a parent, you know, it was like AAU crap.

Luke de Kock (33:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Dan Patrick (33:55)

You know how much I hate aau. It's like these parents, they think they can scream their kid to the NBA. It drives me flat crazy, but they apologize. Let me tell you something. Giannis is one of my favorite players. He became more one of my favorite players last night because ain't no way in the hell I wouldn't have clocked his ass. There ain't no way. I wouldn't have clocked him. And I ain't trying to be no fake tough guy on television. There's no way. I wouldn't have punched him in the face when he did what he did. There's no way. And like I say, I ain't trying to be no fake tough guy. But in the heat of the moment, if. And Yannis said it, I didn't know it was his dad. If a regular fan came on the court and did that to me, a 100% would have punched him in the face.

Luke de Kock (34:47)

Should he get the same punishment as if that was just a fan and not Tyrese Halliburton's death?

Dan Patrick (34:54)

I don't even know what the appropriate punishment is. Like I say, I'm glad they both apologize. I'm not sure what the punishment is, what's fair.

Luke de Kock (35:06)

How about you keep him away from the first playoff game, the next playoff game at home?

Dan Patrick (35:11)

That's fair. That's fair. I don't think he should be executed, but I think, hey, you can't come to the next two. The next two games at home. I think that would be fair.

Luke de Kock (35:20)

Or if he wants to be on the court so badly, he must play five minutes for the Pacers.

Dan Patrick (35:25)

That would be a. He has. He has to. He has to start the game and play the first quarter for his son. That would be a great punishment.

Luke de Kock (35:36)

Yeah, yeah. He's got to guard Donovan Mitchell. I think that's right. For five, five minutes.

Dan Patrick (35:42)

He has to play. You can break it up how you want to. He has to play 20 minutes.

Luke de Kock (35:48)

He's Charles Barkley, the Hall of Famer. Turner Sports Inside the NBA analyst. I know athletes hate it when, you know, people in my position say somebody quit. So I was trying to come up with a better description for what the Miami Heat did the other night against Cleveland. If they didn't quit, what exactly did they do?

Dan Patrick (36:08)

Well, you know, it's interesting. It's three things I don't like doing. One thing I would never do says somebody should get fired. I've made that clear for 25 years. I'll never, like I can say they're not doing a good job, but I would never say somebody should get fired. That's just like my number one rule. Secondly, I don't like using the word choke or quit, because that's damning. But the Miami Heat quit in Game four because if you were not embarrassed after Game three, and to come out and play like you did in Game 4. The Miami Heat, they quit. They were ready for Cancun. And it was really unfortunate because I have so much respect for Pat Riley, Alonzo Martin and Eric Spoelstra. And like I say, the Cavs were gonna win the series, but to come out there and quit like that. But, you know, Eric Spo said that was embarrassing. That was embarrassing for the Heat organization and. But I have faith in Pat Riley, Alonzo Martin and Eric Spouse. They're gonna fix. They're gonna fix it. I mean, they were. Once Jimmy Butler forced his way out of there. They needed to get the season over with. I hated it. Ended as badly as did. And it was unfortunate, but they quit.

Luke de Kock (37:28)

Steve Kerr came out and said Draymond Green is the best defender he's ever seen.

Dan Patrick (37:33)

Well, he can say that, but he's supposed to. That's his player. But he's not a better defender than Michael Kobe. Dennis Rodman, he's a terrific defender, but he's not. But I. He going to just say. He going to say that.

Luke de Kock (37:50)

Yeah, but you got to be also honest when you do it. From the standpoint of he did. He played with Michael, so he. He did see the best defensive player.

Dan Patrick (38:00)

Listen, I think in the moment he got. He got to say the reason Draymond wasn't in the game, because Sengoon was cooking and got him. Like, you know, Draymond was in foul trouble. Why was he in file trouble? Was cooking him. So. But listen, Draymond is a heck of a player. He's a really good player. He's a really good defender. But I. I expect coaches to defend their players. I really do.

Luke de Kock (38:26)

He's not a better defender than Rodman was when Dennis was with the Pistons.

Dan Patrick (38:30)

No, he was not. No, he was not a better defender than Rodman. I can 100% say that. Dennis was amazing.

Luke de Kock (38:38)

But Pippen, to me, was a better defender than Mike. Scotty could guard everybody.

Dan Patrick (38:47)

Well, he couldn't guard me. They doubled me with Horace Grant. Let's get that out.

Luke de Kock (38:55)

Okay. All right, that's. That's fair.

Dan Patrick (38:57)

But you know what? I. I will agree. Scott. Scott is a better defender than Draymond. I'll. I'll give him his flowers.

Luke de Kock (39:06)

Who did you love seeing on you?

Dan Patrick (39:09)

I never. I never even worried about it. Dan. Nobody. You remember back in the day when they had the Jordan stopper? We used to laugh about that. Like Gerald.

Luke de Kock (39:21)

Gerald Wilkins.

Dan Patrick (39:22)

Like, are you serious right now? There's no great player. There's no great player who can be stopped. You can make him work hard. Like, you can't stop Giannis, you can't stop Bird, you can't stop Dominique Wilkins. You're not going to stop me. You're not going to stop now. You can make us work hard, but this notion that you're going to stop a great player, that's insane. You're not going to stop a great player, period.

Luke de Kock (39:52)

But there wasn't a guy where you go, because George Gervin, I asked him that question. I said, ice, who was the guy that you couldn't wait to see on the court? And he goes, kevin Greeby. He played for the Baltimore Bullets. He said, I loved playing against Kevin Greevey because I knew I was going to score. You didn't have that guy. Where you go, I'm putting up 40.

Dan Patrick (40:17)

Well, you know, I felt like I was going to get double team 95% of the time. I don't think. I never thought that one guy could guard me. It's interesting when people put up still photos of me. A couple people noticed it. They're like, why aren't you looking at the defender? I said, first of all, I'm not even worried about the guy guarding me because I'm always looking past the defender. Yeah, if you get a steel photo with me with the ball, I'm never even worried about the guy. Garmin. I'm looking like, where's the double team coming from? Or where I'm going. And I didn't even know this. One of my friends, he's, man, I'm looking at these old photos of you when you got the ball, you're not even looking at the guy. I said, dude, I'm not even worried about one guy stopping me. I don't care who it is. I don't care if it's Rodman. I don't care if it's Kevin McHale, who's a great defender. Kevin, the best player I've played against. I'm looking like, is there a double team or what angle am I going? I'm never worried about one guy stopping me, period.

Luke de Kock (41:21)

What if Jordan guarded you?

Dan Patrick (41:22)

You too little. He's too little. He's. Listen, Michael, he can't guard me in the post. He's too little.

Luke de Kock (41:33)

Did you say that to him?

Dan Patrick (41:35)

I've said it to him a thousand times. Little man, late. Hey, little man, you in the wrong place. Hey, I say, little man. You're at the wrong place.

Ross Tucker (41:44)

At the wrong.

Luke de Kock (41:46)

Wait. He's taller than you.

Dan Patrick (41:48)

He too little, though. Too little.

Luke de Kock (41:51)

He can jump.

Dan Patrick (41:52)

Yeah, he gonna fly Cause I'm gonna hit his ass. I'm gonna hit him with elbows. Hey, hey, Dan. I'm hitting with elbows and ass.

Luke de Kock (42:01)

What was it like when you guarded him?

Dan Patrick (42:03)

I can't guard him. It was really funny. He actually talked about this one time we switched out and I. I get down in my defensive stance. And he just started. He did. I switched out and he looked at me. He just started laughing and just said, are you serious right now? And he actually passed the ball because he was laughing so hard.

Luke de Kock (42:31)

Golden State didn't double you when you scored 56.

Dan Patrick (42:35)

And you know what's really funny about that? I had, I think, 24, 26 the first quarter. So I. I'm running by the bench and I said, nelly, you better double me. He says, nope, after I get like the first ten, the first quarter, I said, nelly, are you gonna double me? He said, not all night. I'm not gonna double you. So I got like 24 the first quarter. Basically. I think I had 28 the first half. And I'm screaming at Nelly, nelly, you better double me. And he's screaming at me, not a chance. I'm going to w. I says, byron Houston's too little. Chris Gatlin too little. It's so funny because Nelly was amazing. And I'm screaming at him, are you gonna double me? He's like, I'm not gonna double you all night. And that's absolutely a true story.

Luke de Kock (43:30)

That was your high 56.

Dan Patrick (43:32)

Yes. In. In a. In. In a. In a. I think that was the game we. Because I was already mad because Nike made a commercial with me. Well, Chris Webber dunking on me. And so we.

Luke de Kock (43:50)

Did he bring the ball around his back and then dunked?

Dan Patrick (43:54)

Yeah. My mind said to me, as a. Chris is not a great free throw shooter, I'm going to foul him. So I reached for the ball to foul him, and he took it. I was going to take a foul, and he took it behind his back and dunked on me. It was a three point play. So Nike calls me and said, hey, can we use this in a commercial? As of course, I'm not upset about it. I get. Everybody's been dunked on. So then when they. When the commercial come out and Chris says, well, I don't care what anybody say. You're my role model. He's laughing in a barbershop. I said, oh, I gotta make him pay for that. I gotta make him pay for that.

Luke de Kock (44:36)

A side topic. What is Bill Belichick doing?

Dan Patrick (44:43)

Well, this is a very slippery subject for me. Because Bill's one of my really good friends. I don't. I'm not sure what's going on. You know, he's been a great friend for me for a long time. We've been. For instance, he coached for the Browns. I think he got to be very careful right now. This is starting to be on a very slippery slope. He's the greatest football coach ever for him. And Nick Saban for college. Nick Saban for Bill, the NFL. Yeah, I, I. From what I'm hearing, it's starting to be a very slippery slope. And I never talk about people's personal relationship. That's. That's another rule I got. But I will admit I'm a little concerned with some of the stuff that's going on, and I might actually reach out to him and make sure everything's good. But I am concerned, from what I'm hearing, because, yeah, it's not a. It's not a good look right now. I'll admit that.

Luke de Kock (45:44)

And he's such a control freak, but he's relinquished control. It feels like. That's what's surprising to me.

Dan Patrick (45:51)

Yeah, listen, man, I have very strict rules on things about. Don't ask me no personal questions. Nobody in my family can speak. No, I'm the one who's famous. I'm the one who have to deal with all the crap. No, don't, don't. Don't say anything, because if you say something, it's just gonna muddy the water. That's what I call it. If any family members speak out, it's just gonna muddy the water if. And, yeah, I'm a little concerned, I'll admit that. Because. Because, you know, he's my friend. Do good, bad, and whatever, and I just hope he. I hope everything's all right.

Luke de Kock (46:30)

Whenever I see you doing those Capital One commercials, you got Spike Lee. It dawned on me the last time. Could Spike ever play basketball?

Dan Patrick (46:41)

No.

Luke de Kock (46:42)

Okay.

Dan Patrick (46:43)

No. And let me tell you something. The. There's two people who I work with are the best at what they do. There's a guy named Joe Pitka who's one of the greatest directors of all time. The second one is Sam Jackson. They are the two best I've ever worked with when it comes to making commercials, because they know what works. Like, sometimes both of those guys, we're shooting a commercial, they're like, nah, that sucks. We're not gonna do it like that. Joe Picker and Sam Jackson, they're like, no. And Sam was like, who wrote this crap? Who wrote this crap? And he Says that doesn't work. It doesn't make any sense. Let's do it like this. But those are the two best I've ever worked with as far as knowing what works on camera. Joe Picker and Samuel L. Jackson, they are the best. But Spike, Spike. Spike has 0 athletic ability. 0.

Luke de Kock (47:37)

All right, just wanted to know.

Ross Tucker (47:40)

No.

Dan Patrick (47:40)

0 athletic ability.

Luke de Kock (47:42)

Are you golfing today?

Dan Patrick (47:44)

No, we got. It's kind of hard because, you know, we worked at 2 in the morning and I have to get up early to play because, you know, we got to be back in the studio by 6:00 tonight. So I'll start playing next week, to be honest with you, because once we get teams eliminated, we have a lot. We work every night, but sometimes we have like one game. But right now we still have two games going to two in the morning, so I'm not golfing right now.

Luke de Kock (48:14)

Shaq had to go to the bathroom the other night.

Dan Patrick (48:17)

Oh, man, that was hilarious, wasn't it? But you know what's so funny, Dan? He's not even my age yet. You know, like back probably five to seven years ago, if I had to go to the bathroom, like, if I was watching something on television, I could hold it. And like, once I got like 55, you can't. And he's. He's getting that age now. Be like, yeah, if you try to hold it, it's gonna come out on his own. Yeah, that. So I told him, I said, welcome to old time age, brother. You can't. You. When you gotta go, you gotta go. It's that simple.

Luke de Kock (48:51)

We gotta go. Great to talk to you again. Thank you, Chuck.

Dan Patrick (48:54)

All right, brother. Thanks for having me. You take care of yourself, brother. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott and this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (49:02)

Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports.

Dan Patrick (49:08)

This kind of star studded a little bit, man.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (49:10)

We met them at their homes, we met them at the recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to it.

Dan Patrick (49:16)

It makes it real.

Unnamed Sports Columnist (49:17)

It really does. It makes it real.

Dan Patrick (49:19)

Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Ross Tucker (49:27)

Hi, I'm Sam Mullins and I've got a new podcast coming out called goboy, the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable.

Luke de Kock (49:38)

Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted, has spent 24 of those years in jail.

Ross Tucker (49:43)

But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex con to a literary darling from Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts. Listen to GoBoy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Rich Davis (49:58)

I'm ready to fight.

Dan Patrick (49:59)

Oh, this is Fighting Words.

Charles Barkley (50:00)

Okay, I'll put the hammer back.

Luke de Kock (50:02)

Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best.

Dan Patrick (50:04)

Selling author with the second most banned book in America.

Luke de Kock (50:08)

Now more than ever, we need to.

Dan Patrick (50:09)

Use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of black queer creativity is the fact that we got us, you know, we are the greatest culture makers of in world history.

Luke de Kock (50:22)

Listen to Fighting words on the iHeartRadio.

Dan Patrick (50:24)

App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And the dream season is now complete.

Luke de Kock (50:34)

The Golden State warriors are the 2015.

Charles Barkley (50:37)

NBA champion on the new limited podcast series Dub dynasty. It's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible.

Dan Patrick (50:47)

It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being.

Charles Barkley (50:51)

Benched for the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run. Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Steve Covino (51:05)

The best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. But if we're honest, most people run from them. Staying silent, missing chances and holding themselves back. I know this is true because I used to be like that until I realized that negotiation isn't a talent. It's a skill that anyone can learn. And once I did, everything changed. I went from people pleaser to confident communicator. And now I teach Fortune 500 leaders and top executives how to do the same. Listen to negotiate anything on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.