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- [00:00]
Dan Patrick
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- [01:39]
Dan Patrick
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Rick Neuheisel
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Dan Patrick
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Better Woman Representative
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Dan Patrick
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- [02:11]
Michael Kassin
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [02:19]
Dan Patrick
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [02:22]
Michael Kassin
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [02:25]
Dan Patrick
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.
- [02:34]
Michael Kassin
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Casson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good.
- [02:47]
Joe Thomas
Company, the podcast where I sit down.
- [02:49]
Michael Kassin
With the boldest innovators shaping what's next.
- [02:52]
Joe Thomas
In this episode, I'm joined by Angeli Sud, CEO of Tubi.
- [02:56]
Michael Kassin
We dive into the competitive world of streaming.
- [02:58]
Better Woman Representative
What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core.
- [03:01]
Dan Patrick
There's so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.
- [03:14]
Joe Thomas
Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio.
- [03:16]
Michael Kassin
App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [03:20]
Dan Patrick
Foreign you are listening to the Dan.
- [03:27]
Lewis Riddick
Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio.
- [03:30]
Joe Thomas
Hall of Famer. He's Joe Thomas joins us on the program. Joe, come on in here. Round of applause for you.
- [03:38]
Michael Kassin
Hey, how we doing? What's up? Hey, what's up, brother? How we doing? Yeah, you know, I did not come empty handed here because, you know, I'm from Wisconsin and who cares? Enjoying yourself. And my mom always taught me we got to be Wisconsin. Nice. And you don't show up as a guest empty handed. I got a little hat for you. I know you guys aren't Browns fans, but somewhere there's a Browns fan that may want that when we leave.
- [04:00]
Joe Thomas
Okay. Are you still a Browns fan after what happened last night?
- [04:03]
Michael Kassin
Well, it was a little tough last night. It was like Christmas morning when you're waking up and you've asked Santa for that one gift and you're just sure it's coming. And all of a sudden you open it up and it's like, hey, this is a gift certificate for next year's Christmas.
- [04:20]
Joe Thomas
Like, dang, what would you have done?
- [04:25]
Michael Kassin
I mean, it would be hard for me to pass up on Travis Hunter just because he's a guy that can change the game on both sides of the ball. You can never have enough good cornerbacks. You can never have enough good wide receivers. And it would have been nice to see him because I think he's just a great locker room guy. And it was a tough year for Browns fans, let's be honest. And so to get a little bit of excitement and hope on draft day, which is typically our super bowl, would have been kind of nice. But I think when you look at the haul that they got, how do you turn that down? I mean, it was a historic haul for being able to just slide back a couple spots and then still get a great player in. Mason Graham.
- [05:03]
Joe Thomas
Okay but this is what I never understand. People talk about, oh, you got all these draft picks, but if you're not good at drafting, what does it matter? Because the Browns have a history of recent. History of not being very good at drafting.
- [05:19]
Michael Kassin
What do you consider recent? Like the last 20 years.
- [05:22]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, last 15 years. I mean, you worked.
- [05:25]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, well, I mean, they've had some good picks, obviously.
- [05:27]
Joe Thomas
I mean, Miles Garrett.
- [05:28]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, exactly.
- [05:29]
Joe Thomas
Yeah.
- [05:29]
Michael Kassin
The reason we're in this situation is.
- [05:31]
Joe Thomas
Johnny Manziel, quarterback, the defensive back from Oklahoma State.
- [05:35]
Michael Kassin
Yeah. Let's not talk about Justin Gilbert. I'm sorry I had to mention. Mention that name.
- [05:40]
Joe Thomas
Yeah. But I, I just thought if you take Travis Hunter now, you're relevant now somebody now we would tune in to watch the Browns. Yeah, nobody's tuning in to watch Miles Garrett. I mean, you appreciate Myles Garrett, but you want to be relevant. And the Browns aren't relevant. Now the curiosity is how old is their quarterback? I mean, that's really the big curiosity here. You get Travis Hunter and then today you get Shador Sanders. Now I got something. I got something fun here. Maybe it's not sustainable with the quarterback, but at least you reunite them. Now people are talking about the Cleveland Browns.
- [06:15]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, I guess. Do you want to win the draft or do you want to win some games down the line? And I think it's a, It's a difficult decision and it's a tough trade off when you're sitting here and everybody wants that microwave approach, that instant gratification of being able to have those two guys like you mentioned, and you got the excitement. But know, there was a lot of excitement when we drafted Johnny Manzel. And, you know, we've had a lot of excitement on draft day in the past, and it's not always worked out. So sometimes I think you do have to make the tough decisions and be realistic about the situation you're in. Admit to yourself that, hey, we aren't one player away and we don't have enough conviction in Shadour Sanders, hoping that they'd be able to get him today to say, like, yep, we put those two guys together, we got a strong playoff team. We think that Shadour is a guy that can make maybe give us a run in the playoffs. And I just don't think that evaluation led them to that belief.
- [07:05]
Joe Thomas
Do you ever pull Johnny Manziel to the side and have a conversation with him?
- [07:10]
Michael Kassin
We talked occasionally and I was like, hey, man, why don't you love football more? Like, it would be really cool if you showed up for a Few meetings every now and then.
- [07:19]
Joe Thomas
And what did he say?
- [07:21]
Michael Kassin
I don't think he was there. I think I was sending a text message like, hey, we're at the meeting.
- [07:24]
Dan Patrick
Where are you?
- [07:27]
Joe Thomas
You don't think he loved football?
- [07:29]
Michael Kassin
I think it was pretty obvious that he enjoyed playing football as a kid's game. But when it came to doing the work, the preparation that it takes, you know, it's really hard, especially being a quarterback in the NFL, because you're putting a lot of time in on your own, getting yourself ready, not only for games, but practice and watching film and dedicating your body to the weight room. And look at what Tom Brady did. I mean, basically all he did when he was a player was take care of his body, study film, and play football. And that's the commitment you have to make. And not everybody's willing to make that.
- [08:00]
Joe Thomas
Well, you see a lot of quarterbacks, not a lot, but you see some that are. They've been so good. It's so easy for them in high school. And like Kyler Murray, I just think football was easy for him. And then you get to the pros where you really have to put in the time now. Johnny in high school, Johnny in college, and then all of a sudden you get to the pros and you just see some of these guys who. It was too easy for them. The hard part is when you, like, you feel like you've made it when you get to the NFL, but that's when it starts.
- [08:30]
Michael Kassin
Yeah.
- [08:30]
Joe Thomas
Like, you. You didn't make it when you were drafted by the Browns. You had to then prove, you know, that you were worthy of that. That draft pick.
- [08:38]
Michael Kassin
Yeah. And that's one of the reasons that when I was drafted in 2007, I wasn't super excited to go to the draft because it kind of made me upset that a lot of players thought that this was the end of the road. You know, this was my king moment. And now all the work is done, and I can just enjoy the work that I did before and the money that comes and the fame that comes. But for me, it was just like, hey, this is where I'm going to be starting my journey. And this is where the work begins. And I think no matter who you are, no matter how great you are in college and how great you become in the NFL, you do hit those oil slicks on your path to success. And you got to be willing to put in a different level of work and commitment to your craft than you did to be great and win the Heisman in College, didn't I?
- [09:20]
Joe Thomas
I talked to you the day of the draft or after the draft. You were hunting, weren't you?
- [09:25]
Michael Kassin
I was fishing out on Lake Michigan, out of Port Washington, Wisconsin, with the dad. Yeah, it was great. Hey, maybe there's some people from Port Washington not too far from here.
- [09:34]
Joe Thomas
But why go fishing instead of go to the draft?
- [09:38]
Michael Kassin
Well, Gil Brandt asked me to go to the draft, the hall of Fame scout from the Dallas Cowboys. And, you know, I'm a man of my word. I'm a guy that keeps his commitments or I try to. I did ghost you one time on the show back in, like, 2009. I'm sorry about that one still, by the way. But, you know, I had a date to fish with my dad going back a long time on Saturday, and the NFL was just a little bit late to ask me to show up to the draft. I said, hey, sorry, I'm already planning to go fishing with my dad. And that sounds a lot more fun than putting on the suit and going to New York City.
- [10:08]
Joe Thomas
What advice would you give these offensive linemen who were drafted?
- [10:13]
Michael Kassin
I would say, just come in with your head down, be ready to work your eyes, open your mouth shut, listen and learn from those old guys, and try to build yourself a process to prepare for games. Because that was one of the things that was the most important in my career. I had Hank Fraley, who is our center now, turning into a great NFL coach. He was offensive line coach for the Detroit Lions. But I was able to get in there and some other veteran guys, and they showed me their process of how you watch film, how you take notes, how you prepare for practice, how you evaluate yourself, because the coaches are going to do a great job. But if you want to be great, if you want to be consistently great, you got to do it for yourself. And you got to have a system that you stick to, that you go through every single day for practice, and then every week, when you're getting ready.
- [10:54]
Joe Thomas
For Sundays, well, you know, the Patriots were on the clock. And then they take the offensive lineman, Will Campbell out of lsu and, you know, it's not a sexy pick. But then you hear what he says, that he's going to. He'll die. I'm going to protect my quarterback. That's when you go, yes.
- [11:11]
Michael Kassin
Yeah.
- [11:12]
Joe Thomas
You know, Mike Vrabel got his guy. Yeah. But then they talk about short arms. I mean, how long are your arms?
- [11:19]
Michael Kassin
I don't know. Maybe somebody can look it up. But that was the knock on me coming out. Short arms, draft, which I always thought was funny. I'm like, what, what makes my arms short? I guess I don't understand, like if my middle finger is an inch longer. Because they measure from here to here, which is kind of a weird measurement. Like, I don't block people like this last time I checked. Usually I'm like going like this and I'm blocking with my feet. My hands are just connecting me and my body to the opponent. And so, I mean, obviously longer is better than shorter with your appendages. But like, it really is not gonna. It's not. Well, here we go. We got. Apparently an aficionado, he knows the thing, but I, I don't know why they think that like a very, very minute difference is able to classify somebody as. Yep, you can do it. And nope, sorry, you can't do it. Because really it's your feet, it's your technique, it's your balance, it's your mind and your ability to get into those biomechanical positions. It's the way you can bend your ankles, knees and hips. Like that's what determines success or failure. But I think sometimes, especially with the combine, we're very attached to these measuring systems that are very, very archaic. They're not very accurate at measuring exactly how long are your arms? Because I always thought, hey, wouldn't it be good as if you put like a plate of glass between the guys chest and you had them stick like their arms out like this with their palms? Because that's what you block people with. You don't block people like this. But the problem, and you certainly don't block them like this. Even wingspan is kind of misleading because now you're measuring how long are their hands and their fingers, how wide is their chest, which really, it's obsolete, it doesn't matter. But they always want a way to be able to compare the people that were there 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Because they build these models of. All right, you know, this is the probability of success if they have this measurement and that measurement. So they don't want to change it. Even though a lot of that stuff really, it's just not applicable at all. Even to the, the thing that they're trying to measure.
- [13:12]
Joe Thomas
He's hall of famer Joe Thomas. How many sacks did you give up in your career?
- [13:15]
Michael Kassin
I don't think I gave up any, actually. You know, the ones that they maybe credited for me were probably the quarterback's fault.
- [13:21]
Joe Thomas
How many do you think you actually.
- [13:22]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, I think it was probably around 20 or something like that.
- [13:25]
Joe Thomas
26 how many times did you hold?
- [13:27]
Michael Kassin
Well, I never have.
- [13:28]
Joe Thomas
No. How many times did you get cold penalties?
- [13:32]
Michael Kassin
I don't know. Maybe 30, 20, 10, 5. I don't know.
- [13:36]
Joe Thomas
Joe is raising beef cattle.
- [13:38]
Michael Kassin
Yeah.
- [13:39]
Joe Thomas
And selling your hall of Fame beef products.
- [13:42]
Dan Patrick
Yeah.
- [13:42]
Michael Kassin
You know, you guys do this, such a great show, and you're out here grinding away, and you don't get food, but there's nothing better than a beef stick for a snack.
- [13:50]
Joe Thomas
He's got a knife. I figured security.
- [13:53]
Michael Kassin
I figure you guys, you know, may get a little hungry today. And so I had a chance to offer you some of the great hall of Fame beef from my family farm in Wisconsin.
- [14:02]
Joe Thomas
It's Six Springs Farm.com for more information.
- [14:07]
Michael Kassin
Be wary that this is exceptional stuff and you might not go back to the regular stuff if you're going back home. This is the stuff that my kids are literally fighting over when they come home from school. So I hope you enjoy it.
- [14:20]
Dan Patrick
What a treat.
- [14:20]
Michael Kassin
Stop. Farm to the table.
- [14:22]
Joe Thomas
Wow.
- [14:22]
Michael Kassin
It's kind of a passion project. See? Hey, that. That was a good answer, by the way, but.
- [14:25]
Joe Thomas
All right.
- [14:26]
Michael Kassin
And I'll put the knife away before I get in trouble. Yeah.
- [14:28]
Joe Thomas
What are you doing?
- [14:30]
Michael Kassin
We're doing good things over here in Wisconsin, aren't we, guys? There we go. We still got a crowd here.
- [14:37]
Joe Thomas
You wish you would have played for the Packers?
- [14:39]
Michael Kassin
You know, I grew up a huge Packer fan. I was 12 when they won the Super Bowl. Brett Favre and Leroy Butler and Reggie White. And so I carried that through college. And then you get drafted, and until you really are just all in for another team, playing for the Browns, obviously, Browns fan, I wanted us to win. But you still kind of hold that love for your team that you grew up in because you remember all those feels that you had, you know, when they had those successes. And so early on in my career, I was always kind of saying, you know, I wasn't hoping they would trade for me, but I wasn't going to be mad if they did, because living in Wisconsin, obviously, the weather is so nice as it is today. 40 and raining. I got my family here, get to play in Lambeau Field, which is the greatest stadium. It's the cathedral to football. But then as my. My career wore on, my kids were born in Cleveland. I really identified more as a Clevelander, as a Cleveland Brown. And so now, living back in Wisconsin, kids are allowed to be Packer fans. I cheer for them if they're not playing the Browns. But, you know, I think it's interesting as you work in the business, how kind of your allegiances just change a little bit.
- [15:43]
Joe Thomas
But you didn't think about maybe one, your final year, like J.J. watt, I think.
- [15:49]
Michael Kassin
Yeah.
- [15:50]
Joe Thomas
Talked about maybe one year playing for the.
- [15:52]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, but he didn't. So it's like, you know, I, I, I get.
- [15:55]
Joe Thomas
But he wanted to.
- [15:55]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, but he wanted to. I mean, I wanted to, but, you know, I think when you kind of weigh the cost and the benefit of everything, in the end, you still want to be in, like, a great situation for you and how you fit into the team, and that's kind of like the most important thing. I think for me, my career ended probably before I wanted to because I had a bad knee, I tore my tricep. I was just kind of breaking down. Um, but, you know, the little kid in me says, yeah, it wouldn't have been cool to put the green and gold helmet on, but I never also wanted to be the, the guy that's like, oh, he used to be good, but we're just kind of taping them together and rolling him out there to be nice to him. Right.
- [16:30]
Joe Thomas
Did you ever score a touchdown?
- [16:31]
Michael Kassin
I never did. I, I picked up a couple fumbles and that's about it. Never got no, Never. Never in the ends of that, I guess maybe close in my mind. It was Thursday Night Football in Cincinnati, and we fumbled into the end zone and I jumped on the pile and I was like, this is my chance. This is it, you know. But I had a record going towards the end of my career of consecutive snaps over ten and a half years. I never missed a play. And so if you go in as an eligible receiver, like on the goal line to try to throw you a pass, and let's say there's a penalty or something like that, now you back up and it's third down and long, and you want to be able to put that player back in as a tackle and take him away from being an eligible number. You can't do that without taking a timeout. So they never even put, like a play into to placate me and make me think that I was going to be able to score touchdown. But I also had my hands taped like a boxer. I had cast on my thumbs and my fingers look like Ninja Turtles. So I actually didn't even want to try to catch a ball because I would be real bad like this.
- [17:30]
Joe Thomas
He is Joe Thomas, and it's Six Springs farm dot com.
- [17:34]
Michael Kassin
That's right.
- [17:35]
Joe Thomas
And so this is direct to consumer.
- [17:37]
Michael Kassin
Yeah, we sell on the website. You know, it's me and my family, my kids in 2018 said, hey dad, we want a pet cow. And I'm like, oh boy, this is going to take some work. And then I started thinking like, oh, but, but I can eat this pet. I can't do that with the other ones. And so I'm like, you know what I learned as a pro athlete as how you take care of your body and how the fuel that you put in it, it gives you the fuel that you put out and you know, how your body is determined and how you feel. And I was like, well, you know, I love eating beef, so I want to see if I can raise the best beef on planet earth regardless of price. You know, NFL salary was good, so I don't have to worry about pinching pennies on ra the beef cattle. And we just kind of stumbled into something and it all started with getting five cows for the kids.
- [18:21]
Joe Thomas
That's great. If you would like to see Joe's meat, you can go to.
- [18:26]
Michael Kassin
It's available every night.
- [18:27]
Joe Thomas
6 Spring Farms.com Good to see you. Thanks.
- [18:31]
Michael Kassin
Appreciate it guys.
- [18:34]
Dan Patrick
Be sure to catch the live edition.
- [18:36]
Lewis Riddick
Of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at.
- [18:38]
Dan Patrick
9Am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports.
- [18:41]
Lewis Riddick
Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
- [18:44]
Dan Patrick
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [19:12]
Better Woman Representative
See full terms@mintmobile.com hey friend. I know how this feels. Waking up exhausted after multiple trips to the bathroom and feeling embarrassed by sudden leaks. I used to be constantly on edge, searching for a restroom whenever I was out. Then I discovered Better Woman. I was skeptical at first, but two months in, everything changed. I experienced improved bladder control. No more heart stopping moments when I laugh or sneeze, less urge to go deeper and more restful sleep. I finally felt like myself again, confident and in control. Better Woman is natural, effective, clinically tested and trusted by Women for over 25 years. Ready to take back your control? Head over to bebetternow.com to order your supply today. That's bebetternow.com these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Use as directed. Individual results may vary.
- [20:17]
Michael Kassin
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [20:24]
Dan Patrick
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [20:27]
Michael Kassin
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [20:30]
Dan Patrick
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [20:39]
Michael Kassin
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:48]
Dan Patrick
I'm Israel Gutierrez and I'm hosting a new podcast, Dub Dynasty, the story of how the Golden State warriors have dominated the NBA for over a decade.
- [20:58]
Rick Neuheisel
The Golden State warriors once again are NBA champions.
- [21:03]
Dan Patrick
From the building of the corps that included Klay Thompson and Draymond Green to one of the boldest coaching decisions in the history of the sport, I just.
- [21:11]
Rick Neuheisel
Felt like the biggest thing was to.
- [21:13]
Dan Patrick
Earn the trust of the players and.
- [21:14]
Rick Neuheisel
Let the players know that we were here to try to help them take.
- [21:17]
Dan Patrick
The next step, not tear anything down. Today, the warriors dynasty remains alive, in large part because of a scrawny 6 foot 2 hooper who everyone seems to.
- [21:27]
Lewis Riddick
Love for what Steph has done for the game. He's certainly on that like Mount Rushmore.
- [21:31]
Rick Neuheisel
For guys that have changed it.
- [21:33]
Dan Patrick
Come revisit this magical warriors ride. This is Dove Dynasty.
- [21:37]
Michael Kassin
The Dubs Dynasty is still very much alive.
- [21:41]
Dan Patrick
Listen to Dove Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:53]
Joe Thomas
On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am, a red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned in a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open, no traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found except for a cassette tape Lodged in the player. On that tape were 10 vile no.
- [22:23]
Dan Patrick
No no no no no no no no no.
- [22:26]
Joe Thomas
Grotesque.
- [22:27]
Dan Patrick
Oh my God. Oh my God.
- [22:31]
Joe Thomas
Horrific stories that to this day have been kept restricted from the public until now. You feeling this too? A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. He is Rick Neuheisel, a former coach and he is hosting every round of the draft coverage here in Green Bay and throughout the year you can hear him hosting full ride on Sirius XM College Sports Radio. Rick Neuheisel joins us on the program here.
- [23:10]
Lewis Riddick
What's up boy? How are we doing?
- [23:13]
Rick Neuheisel
How's everybody.
- [23:15]
Lewis Riddick
My man.
- [23:16]
Joe Thomas
Hi, buddy.
- [23:16]
Lewis Riddick
How you been?
- [23:18]
Joe Thomas
I like that Rick is hosting his radio show right now.
- [23:21]
Lewis Riddick
Right now.
- [23:22]
Joe Thomas
While he's on my show.
- [23:24]
Lewis Riddick
So nothing like being paid for not working. Exactly.
- [23:27]
Joe Thomas
Thank you. Thank you for the respect. Great to see you. Let me ask you the question I've been asking everybody else. You're Cleveland. You're on the clock. Last night you would have done what?
- [23:38]
Lewis Riddick
I might have traded into the first round there for that 32nd pick. Just switched with the Chiefs. I might have traded into that. Just because you get the fifth year. If in fact Chadour is the choice, you'd love to have a quarterback for that fifth year. And if he hits like you all hope that he will, then you've got an extra year to negotiate him being the franchise guy going forward. But that was the story of the draft. You know, the weight, whether or not Chador is going to last, all the stories that were coming about about interviews and body language and things of that nature. At the end of the day, they're going to start looking now at the tape again and see that Shador Sanders is. Is a courageous player in the pocket. He stands in there and takes people right in his face and still throws accurately. 74 passer. In some ways it is almost like they were teaching him a little lesson in humility and. But now somebody wants to get a really good player.
- [24:35]
Joe Thomas
Would you have taken Travis Hunter if you're Cleveland?
- [24:37]
Lewis Riddick
I think Travis Hunter is a unique athlete and I thought that Andrew Berry, the gm, was going to take him. When he called him the Shohei Atani of the NFL, I said, you can't say that about him and then not take him. But he. What he was doing was pitching that to some suitors because now he gets Jacksonville's, I think, first rounder next year.
- [24:58]
Joe Thomas
Right.
- [24:59]
Lewis Riddick
And they get Mason Graham, who helps make Myles Garrett a better player and more worth the money. They just paid Miles Garrett because he's going to attract so much attention inside.
- [25:09]
Joe Thomas
So what would you have done?
- [25:11]
Lewis Riddick
I like what Jackson did. I think Liam Cohen is a terrific young coach. The Tampa Bay offense is exhibit A of the evidence of that. I think he's got a star on both sides of the ball. We got a chance to interview Travis after he was selected. What a bright kid. A unbelievably confident young man. And I mean that in a very kind way. But there's no question in my mind that he can play both sides of the ball if his body will hold up. And that will be interesting to see how they Use him as the kind of the Swiss army knife of Jacksonville's franchise.
- [25:51]
Joe Thomas
But Daniel Jeremiah said that, well, the Browns were going to have him major in offense and minor in defense.
- [25:58]
Lewis Riddick
That's right. To go along with Jerry Judy. I think Liam Cohen, being an offensive guy, has got all sorts of plans for him offensively. But the one thing, and he knows this from his, you know, his college coach, Deion Sanders, you can play lockdown. He has the skill set. You just go lock that guy down. And to the the gift for a defensive coordinator to have somebody that can take the number one receiver away in, in particular into the boundary. You can play all sorts of other things with your 10 other guys that confound a quarterback as long as you can take their alpha away. And I think Travis Hunter has the gifts to do that.
- [26:36]
Joe Thomas
We're talking to Rick Neuheisel, the CBS Sports college football analyst, former college head coach. When you see Cam Ward in his grade this year, but if he was drafted last year, would have been maybe the sixth or seventh right. Quarterback. Okay. Does it make sense for Tennessee to take a guy who would have been the sixth or seventh quarterback a year ago and you take him number one overall?
- [27:01]
Lewis Riddick
It may not make sense to Tennessee, but it certainly did to Brian Callahan. He's got to have a guy. And will Levis, for all his attributes, still has what I call a panic reflex when the, the bullets start flying in the pocket. There was a wanting to get the ball out and it was irresponsible. Too many turnovers. Whether it was fumbles or interceptions. Cam war is that fixable? Potentially. See, I think Bo Nix had that. I think Bo Nix had that at Auburn and I think it's calmed down at Oregon. Still was evident, but we just saw him emerge in the second half of the season last year with getting better and better. So yeah, I think it is fixable. It's gonna. You have to really pound it with attention. And I don't know how much more, many more snaps will Levis is going to get in Tennessee now that they've invested the way they have in Ward. But if you watch Ward, whether it be an incarnate word, Washington State or this last year at Miami, an unusual amount of calm, a Mahomesian amount of calm in terms of just finding Houdini ways out of the pocket and making a play, sometimes to his detriment, making a turnover and he'll have to correct that. But unusual poise in the, in the pocket that when it, when it, you know, the house is on fiverr on, the house is on fire. He gets the baby out of the house. He gets it out. So I think it was a wise choice, the right choice given their situation and I hope Cam Ward, I heard that 3250. I think that's probably about right. You guys are all, I think 2700 somewhere in there.
- [28:38]
Joe Thomas
Yeah.
- [28:39]
Lewis Riddick
I would have taken the over of all where you were. I would have said 3,000, but I, I think the guy's gifted.
- [28:46]
Joe Thomas
Give me the strategy you didn't like from last night.
- [28:52]
Lewis Riddick
Pittsburgh, you know, they have dealt let Justin Fields walk out the door. They've let Russell Wilson walk out the door. Mason Rudolph comes back, he knows the culture and no one has a more indoctrinated culture than the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I know they feel comfortable with Mason Rudolph, but they don't have a second round pick right now. What are they going to do if there's, you know, Shador probably will be gone. I don't know if the kid from Louisville will be gone. Tyler Schuck, you know, it's, it's a fascinating tale for the Steelers. I think Milroe would have been a great pick. They have played against Lamar Jackson for a number of years and know what kind of a headache that is. And especially now that you have DK Metcalf and Pickens as your alpha receivers, much like the Eagles have Devonte Smith and A.J. brown. When you have those two guys and you always get single high because you have to have eight men in the box because the quarterback's a run threat, that's a nightmare. And the Eagles took it all the way to the national championship and it's a case study right there with, with Jalen Hurts at Alabama as a 60% passer before he went to Oklahoma and Now Milrose is 64, 65%. I know he's 16 and 11. We're not touchdown interception ratio this year but last year it was like 20 something to 8. I think Milro was worth something for the Steelers. I'm surprised they haven't figured out a way to get to him because with those two Alphas out there as the receivers and his ability to throw the ball deep, he would have been a real weapon for the Steelers.
- [30:30]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, I was told last night that the Steelers like the kid out of Louisville.
- [30:33]
Lewis Riddick
Yeah, Tyler Shuck.
- [30:34]
Joe Thomas
Yeah. So they might, that might be a third round pick for them. But I was told that they like him.
- [30:40]
Lewis Riddick
Yeah, listen, the Saints are in the quarterback market. Obviously Cleveland's going to be in the quarterback market. I just for Them to be without a second round pick makes me nervous for them.
- [30:52]
Joe Thomas
You normally give us a song when you see us in person.
- [30:57]
Lewis Riddick
So this is how this worked, ladies and gentlemen. I get a call this morning. Hey, we. Do you have your guitar? Like, I travel like a bandolier. Like, you know, with my guitar on my back, you know, Bob Dylan, you know, coming across the country, I said, thank goodness. I don't. Oh, but we have one. But we have one.
- [31:16]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, we.
- [31:18]
Lewis Riddick
So I've got a. You've got a guitar here. So I penned a quick song.
- [31:22]
Joe Thomas
Okay.
- [31:23]
Dan Patrick
That is.
- [31:23]
Lewis Riddick
I penned a quick song. We'll see if this works, but you're gonna have to. And by the way, did you all know that I was born in Wisconsin, the son of Dick and Jane Newheisel. Dick and Jane Neuheisel. Dick is from Cashton, Jane is from Viroqua, and both went to the University of Wisconsin. I was born right there in Madison and Madison General. And when Dick Vermeil and Brent Musburger I coached. My first game at Colorado was at Camp Randall against the Badgers. So, you know, those two guys took Dick and Jane in a car for the sightseeing tour around the campus. He pointed out the hospital and said, that's where. And my mom said, that's where Rick was born. And my dad pointed at a Cadillac, and that's where Rick was conceived.
- [32:16]
Joe Thomas
Oh, whoa.
- [32:18]
Lewis Riddick
That didn't go over so well.
- [32:20]
Joe Thomas
Okay, do you want to bring the microphone up there a little bit? Marvin, would you help?
- [32:26]
Lewis Riddick
Come on, Marv. What are we doing here? So this. Given what took place last night, Little Diddy, about Dion and Son, they went last night thinking they were number one. No worries. Shador can still be a star. Just gonna have to start in the back seat of someone's car. Oh, yeah. Singing Life goes on Long after the thrill of being number one. Oh, yeah. Singing sh Will go on. Let's all root for the kid because he sure ain't number one. Something like that, you know?
- [33:41]
Rick Neuheisel
Yeah.
- [33:41]
Joe Thomas
Let's go.
- [33:45]
Lewis Riddick
Very little time. Very little time.
- [33:51]
Joe Thomas
You're the John Lennon of former college coaches. I mean, just you. You whip that up out outside, we.
- [33:57]
Lewis Riddick
Hand you over here going, I gotta have something. When you have no talent, there has to be something that draws away from the fact that you have no talent.
- [34:05]
Joe Thomas
Well, you did give us Born in the sec.
- [34:08]
Lewis Riddick
Born in the sec.
- [34:09]
Joe Thomas
That was legend.
- [34:10]
Lewis Riddick
That was a hit.
- [34:11]
Joe Thomas
That was a hit. That was great. Yeah, we had the Johnny Manziel tribute song as well. The Ballad of Johnny.
- [34:17]
Lewis Riddick
Ballad of Johnny. Down in the west, down in the badlands they call College Station lived a young Aggie named Johnny Manziel.
- [34:24]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, exactly. Great to see you. Now you can go back to your.
- [34:28]
Lewis Riddick
Show that I'm going to go do my show.
- [34:31]
Joe Thomas
He is Rick Neuheisel.
- [34:33]
Lewis Riddick
You're the best. Thank you so much.
- [34:34]
Joe Thomas
Thank you, coach. Full ride on Sirius XM College sports.
- [34:40]
Lewis Riddick
Radio channel Fox Sports Radio has the.
- [34:43]
Dan Patrick
Best sports talk lineup in the nation.
- [34:45]
Lewis Riddick
Catch all of our shows@foxsportsradio.com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.
- [34:53]
Michael Kassin
This is crazy.
- [34:54]
Lewis Riddick
Another draft night live.
- [34:55]
Dan Patrick
And you know we had it all. The insiders, the pros, the pigs.
- [35:02]
Rick Neuheisel
Live my dream.
- [35:03]
Dan Patrick
If you missed anything, podcast it on.
- [35:05]
Lewis Riddick
Your favorite platform or just watch it on YouTube.
- [35:08]
Dan Patrick
Just search FSR.
- [35:10]
Rick Neuheisel
Can't believe it.
- [35:11]
Dan Patrick
We are Fox Sports Radio.
- [35:13]
Rick Neuheisel
Ugh.
- [35:14]
Michael Kassin
Spam calls.
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Dan Patrick
Sound familiar? Introducing line two. Get a second phone number right on your existing phone. Imagine discounts, appointments, online, forms. Handle it all without giving out your personal number. It's like having a secret weapon against spam. And when those unwanted calls sneak through, boom.
- [35:32]
Michael Kassin
Blocked.
- [35:33]
Dan Patrick
No more interruptions, no more stress.
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Michael Kassin
Stay connected, stay protected.
- [35:37]
Dan Patrick
Keep your main number safe and out of harm's way. Ready to take back your phone? Visit line2.com audio or download line2 in.
- [35:45]
Michael Kassin
The App Store today, the 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [35:57]
Dan Patrick
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [36:00]
Michael Kassin
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [36:03]
Dan Patrick
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.
- [36:12]
Michael Kassin
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [36:22]
Joe Thomas
On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am, a red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned in a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open. No traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found except for a cassette tape. Lodged in the player. On that tape were 10 vile.
- [36:51]
Dan Patrick
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [36:55]
Joe Thomas
Grotesque.
- [36:56]
Dan Patrick
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
- [36:59]
Joe Thomas
Horrific stories. But to this day have been kept restricted from the public. Until now. You feeling this too? A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:21]
Dan Patrick
I'm Israel Gutierrez and I'm hosting a new podcast, Dub Dynasty. The story of how the Golden State warriors have dominated the NBA for over a decade.
- [37:31]
Rick Neuheisel
The Golden State warriors once again NBA champions.
- [37:36]
Dan Patrick
From the building of the core that included Klay Thompson and Draymond Green to one of the boldest coaching decisions in the history of the sport. I just felt like the biggest thing.
- [37:45]
Rick Neuheisel
Was to earn the trust of the players and let the players know that we were here to try to help.
- [37:50]
Dan Patrick
Them take the next step, not tear anything down. Today, the warriors dynasty remains alive in large part because of a scrawny 6 foot 2 hooper who everyone seems to.
- [38:00]
Lewis Riddick
Love for what Steph has done for the game. He's certainly on that like Mount Rushmore.
- [38:04]
Rick Neuheisel
For guys that have changed it, come.
- [38:06]
Dan Patrick
Revisit this magical warriors ride. This is Dub Dynasty.
- [38:10]
Michael Kassin
The Dubs dynasty is still very much alive.
- [38:14]
Dan Patrick
Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:26]
Joe Thomas
I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of.
- [38:28]
Michael Kassin
3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Angel.
- [38:37]
Dan Patrick
Sued, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of.
- [38:43]
Joe Thomas
Streaming, how she's turning so called niche into mainstream gold. Connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen.
- [38:53]
Better Woman Representative
What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there's so many.
- [38:58]
Dan Patrick
Stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.
- [39:10]
Joe Thomas
Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment and sports collide and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up.
- [39:21]
Michael Kassin
A bit in the most crowded of markets.
- [39:24]
Dan Patrick
Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio.
- [39:26]
Michael Kassin
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:37]
Joe Thomas
I don't think he's had much sleep. He worked the draft last night. Let's make way for ESPN's Lewis Riddick who joins us on the program.
- [39:49]
Michael Kassin
What's up guys?
- [39:51]
Dan Patrick
How are you?
- [39:52]
Rick Neuheisel
I'm. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just kind of like, just kind of like making my way. Man, I'm a little bit like a zombie, so I apologize. How's everybody doing out there?
- [40:04]
Joe Thomas
I don't know if they slept either.
- [40:06]
Rick Neuheisel
You know, they have, they have a lot of things to be happy. What a great scene by the way. Last night, the go back, go pack, go chant. It's one of the iconic Chance, man, it was such a cool scene. I just hope they can duplicate it tonight. We need the energy.
- [40:18]
Joe Thomas
How much sleep have you had?
- [40:21]
Rick Neuheisel
Oh, man, it's hard to, it's hard to, like, kind of like come down off of that because, you know, you're so locked in for four or five hours straight, you're analyzing every pick to answer your question. Maybe about three hours or so.
- [40:32]
Joe Thomas
Three or four hours.
- [40:33]
Rick Neuheisel
That's about it.
- [40:33]
Joe Thomas
You sleep a little bit today and then you get ready.
- [40:36]
Rick Neuheisel
I have no time. I have no time. I'm leaving you. I'm going to another production, meeting them. Go to see Rich Eisen, then I have to get dressed and we have a car, meetings. Yeah, this weekend. It's, it's all go, man. I'll go.
- [40:48]
Joe Thomas
I'm a little worried about Mel Kuiper with Shador Sanders not getting drafted last night.
- [40:53]
Rick Neuheisel
Yeah, yeah, he, yeah, met when, you know, when, when Mel, when Mel gets locked in, you know how that goes. He wants, he believes what he believes. And that's part of, like, that's part of draft evaluation. Right? You get convicted on something and, you know, the, one of the things you have to do. I guess, though, Dan, when you're, when you're having the, when you're in the middle of the broadcast is, look, these are these individual players moment in time that they'll never gonna have again. So you don't want to rob anyone else of their time because you personally feel a certain way about maybe another player. And I think sometimes, you know, fans can get, they get annoyed at that. And I get that. And I know there were some people who were a little annoyed last night that they thought that after Cam got picked that our conversation quickly shifted to where's Shador gonna wind up going? And I get that. I understand it, but Mel's very. He. Look, he believes what he believes about Shadow, the same way I believe what I believed about CJ Stroud and Jaden Daniels, you know, the past two years, so we'll see how it all turns out.
- [41:51]
Joe Thomas
How surprised were you that he wasn't taken in the first round?
- [41:56]
Rick Neuheisel
I am, but I'm not. Because, see, I, I, I'm surprised because, look, I know the football player. I know that this young man, if you strip away the fact that he's Shador Sanders and he's Deion Sanders son, and that he is someone who is very confident, very self assured, someone who has lived a great life because of his father has had a great life, that there are some people who just inherently are very jealous of that. And look, when you're talking about player evaluation, there is a subjective, personal component to it. You cannot. It's hard for a guy. Look, there are human beings who are evaluating these guys and human beings who are picking them. And sometimes if someone comes off the wrong way to you or you don't like it, it just doesn't jive with you. It's going to affect your evaluation. But the evaluation on the football field cannot be disputed. He's one of the best quarterbacks in the country. There's many people who would tell you, look, throw for throw, he can match up with anybody in this draft. Whether that's Cam, whether that's Jackson Dart, whether that's Tyler. He can match up throw for throw. He had no help at Colorado, no offensive line. Like, he had more free runners come at him over the past two years than any quarterback in fbs, but still he slid. So what does that tell you? There's. There's some things that people just don't like or don't feel are worth first round value. He's going to get picked today. And I'll tell you what, if you thought he had a chip on his shoulder before, if you thought he was a little bit surly before, look out.
- [43:16]
Joe Thomas
Give me the draft night strategy. You didn't understand.
- [43:21]
Rick Neuheisel
I didn't understand. You know, I, I think, look, I, I understand why. I think the one that was probably a little bit of a risk. Look, I mean, Atlanta gave up a lot to move up in order to draft James Pierce. Okay. Who had some concerns about, you know, just, are you going to be able to trust James Pierce to do the right things all the time and be a dependable player and really fix the number one thing that has haunted Atlanta over the past four years, which is they just can't rush the passing. They just can't. James Pierce is like Javon Curse, though, in terms of athletic ability. 6, 5, 2, 45 runs, 4, 4, 7. I mean, that's ridiculous. But it's that. But that's, that's not really what determines success and failure all the time. It's about doing the right thing, being consistent and all that. So the price that they paid in order to get him. Look, I, I understand, like, when you're trying to get past rushers, you're trying to get difference makers that you will, you will sometimes go above and beyond what you originally thought you would. I just hope that play that pans out For Raheem and the crew and Terry Fontenot, a GM down there in Atlanta, because they need him to hit big, real big.
- [44:29]
Joe Thomas
I thought the Steelers were going to take a running back, you know, because you don't have Najee Harris.
- [44:36]
Rick Neuheisel
Right.
- [44:37]
Joe Thomas
They love to run the football.
- [44:39]
Rick Neuheisel
True. But you know what Cam Hayward's getting is, is getting older. The defense, although it has been like their bedrock, they need to replenish it. I get it.
- [44:49]
Dan Patrick
What?
- [44:50]
Joe Thomas
I'm. What I'm surprised you don't have, you don't have a quarterback.
- [44:52]
Rick Neuheisel
You're right. You're right. Look, and I'm not, I'm not really defending them. I'm just kind of like trying to look at it through their eyes. Look, Derek Harmon has to be big time for them. He has to be the next K. Cam Hayward, he has to be the next Aaron Smith. All those guys that, that were there and that played great football and helped them win Super Bowls and, and be, you know, perennial super bowl contenders. Look, I, I, I, I agree with you, though. I agree with you. What are they going to do at quarterback now? It's, it's Aaron Rodgers or bust. It just is. And that is a hell of a position to be in. Would you want to count on that?
- [45:25]
Joe Thomas
No.
- [45:25]
Rick Neuheisel
Would you want to count on him making a decision anytime soon? Does he sound like someone who wants to make a decision anytime soon? Absolutely not. And they're not going anywhere with Mason Rudolph. As much as I respect Mason Rudolph.
- [45:36]
Joe Thomas
I was told last night they like the quarterback out of Louisville, Tyler Schuck. Look, I think he's 25.
- [45:44]
Rick Neuheisel
That, you know, he's still, he's still a guy who will be a two contract quarterback. He'll play 10, 15 years in the NFL. All the medical checks that he has had. Yeah, you know, because that's the other thing that people worry about, the injuries that he had. Look, he broke his collarbone, collarbone, twice running the football, got hit right on it. Had someone roll on his ankle, fracture his lower leg. Those are things that can happen to any court. You can't, you can't prevent that. So he's not injury prone. But I will tell you this, what he is, is maybe, maybe the most throw for throw, most talented thrower in this draft is what he is. He can throw the football right alongside Milroe, Cam, Shador, Jackson, all of them. You just haven't heard about him. And he's been tutored by Jeff and Brian Braum down there in Louisville. There aren't any better quarterback tutors in College football. Wherever he goes, just remember that name. Remember Tyler Schuck's name. He is going to surprise the entire NFL in 2025.
- [46:43]
Joe Thomas
He's got to spell his name differently, I think.
- [46:47]
Rick Neuheisel
Shou G H does not sound like shuck, does it?
- [46:49]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, no, our quarterback shucks. He's Lewis Riddick of the Mothership joining us. And of course, the draft day coverage continues tonight at 7 Eastern. The rookie of the year will be who?
- [47:05]
Rick Neuheisel
It'll be Travis Hunter. He's just. I said it when I was out there at his pro day. In all my years of football, I used to come up here to Green Bay. My cousin was Tim Lewis, who was drafted here in 1983 as the first round pick, the 11th overall pick. I used to come up here and train with him in the summertime. So I was around James Lofton. I've been around Andre Reed in Buffalo. My brother played there when James Lofton was there. I played with Jerry Rice, played against Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, all these dudes. I have never seen hand eye coordination like Travis Hunter in my life. He is, he's the natural. He's just a natural athlete. He's a natural football player and he's a guy who, he's going to change the game. And James Gladstone, the GM of the Jaguars, talked about that, that this is a guy who's probably, when it's all said and done, is going to redefine how we evaluate football players. And maybe, you know, he will be the standard by which a lot of guys, especially at skill positions are going to be, are going to be judged from now on. He's got a tremendous cardiovascular engine that I'd love to see him take one of those tests like Lance Armstrong took one of those VO2 max tests. Because what he did at Colorado, you, you're not. Human beings aren't supposed to be able to do, especially not at altitude like that.
- [48:25]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, I was going to say that.
- [48:27]
Rick Neuheisel
And when I watched him catching the ball out there at, out there in Boulder, he didn't, he didn't wear gloves. Everybody wears gloves nowadays, right? You know the technology now with gloves, you just have to put your hand up there. It's just the ball just sticks to it. He had no gloves on. And I'm telling you, Shador was humming that football. And you would just hear it as if it was. You were throwing that ball into a pillow. You heard nothing. He wasn't even looking. It was just like, like, it was just like. And I was just sitting there looking at my mouth Is just dropped open like, what is happening?
- [48:54]
Joe Thomas
Okay, but you're giving all of this credit and praise. Did Cleveland make a mistake?
- [49:01]
Rick Neuheisel
I would have taken him if I was Cleveland.
- [49:04]
Joe Thomas
Okay.
- [49:04]
Rick Neuheisel
I would have taken him for a number of reasons. One, he's gonna put people in the stands. You're gonna want to go. You're gonna want to go see Travis the same way people, when I played with Dion wanted to come watch Deion Sanders play. It was a show. I mean, you know what that was like? Every time he touched the ball, you were like, this dude's about to do something that's going to be on SportsCenter.
- [49:24]
Joe Thomas
But Deion could have done this.
- [49:26]
Rick Neuheisel
Done what? Played both ways. Yeah, yeah, he could have. It could. And you know what? And Travis, Travis is not going to play 125, 130 snaps, combined offense, defense, every game. He can't do that in the NFL. You can do that in college. You can't do that in the NFL. And besides, you'll probably burn him out by about three or four years anyway. Do you really want to do that? To me, it's probably going to be like a 60, 40, 70, 30 split in terms of percentage. 70% offense, 30% defense. Make sure he's on the field on all third downs, all two minute situations. Somebody has an alpha receiver, put him on him. But on offense, look, in Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence is like, please put that guy on the field with me, him and Brian Thomas Jr. Come on. That's pretty good.
- [50:07]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, that's pretty good. But you wouldn't. You wouldn't take a wide receiver, number two, and you wouldn't take a defensive back number two.
- [50:15]
Rick Neuheisel
You know what? I played with Eric Turner in Cleveland, who Bill Belichick drafted number two overall, 91. And I would take any position on offense that could produce explosive plays and put points on the board and change the game at the drop of a hat.
- [50:32]
Joe Thomas
But then why not Ashton Genti?
- [50:34]
Rick Neuheisel
So I would take him. I would take Ashton Genti number two. Look, the game's. The game is about. The game is about explosive plays. And how quickly can you score? How quickly can you alter the game? That's what everybody wants. And I don't care where I get that from. Look, Aston Jensen is one of one. Is one of one also just like Travis's Ashton, I believe if he went to a place that had a relatively, let's just say top 12, top 10 to 12 offensive line, Aston Genti, I think could break Eric Dickerson's rookie rushing record. He could go over 1800 yards. If you see him, how he's put together, he can handle the load. It's just whether or not you're going to give him enough opportunity to do it.
- [51:12]
Joe Thomas
If he ran behind the Eagles offensive.
- [51:14]
Rick Neuheisel
Line, he's easy over two Craig. Easily, easily, easily, easily, easily. He's not as fast as Saquon, but I'm telling you, this dude, when you.
- [51:23]
Joe Thomas
See him, who would you rather have?
- [51:27]
Rick Neuheisel
Saquon, because he's a little bigger and faster, A little bit fat? Well, I mean, Saquon's 4:3, Ashton's probably like 4:4:1, but they're both great people.
- [51:36]
Joe Thomas
See the difference in 4:3 and 4:4.
- [51:38]
Rick Neuheisel
I don't know. You asked me to make a choice, man, but I'm just saying no, you.
- [51:43]
Joe Thomas
Know what, like, we get caught up in numbers.
- [51:45]
Rick Neuheisel
You know, what's wild is like when, you know, when at the draft, when they superimpose guys running 40s, you see like the difference between 4, 4441 and 435 is, is like a full stride. So that's the difference between a guy, you know, like, like a wide receiver, for instance, being even with the defensive back versus a, a quarterback looking at him going, he's got a full half yard to a yard of separation. I'm going to throw it to him. Or now it looks like he's even. I'm not going to. That's what it is. It's literally a step.
- [52:13]
Joe Thomas
Jerry Rice ran a four six, 640.
- [52:15]
Rick Neuheisel
You know what, though, on the field, and there is a.
- [52:18]
Joe Thomas
There is football speed, no question, and, and regular track speed. Right? There's no question because Jerry didn't get caught from behind.
- [52:24]
Rick Neuheisel
Never. Look, Jerry, I played. Everything with Jerry was full speed. I have so many funny stories about Jerry Rice when we played against him, but yeah, he is. You know who else was like that? If Michael Irvin didn't run 4 4, 4 3. But you very, very rarely saw anybody catching him from behind either. Now, what's interesting right there's. There's some speculation about, like, the wide receiver that the packers drafted number one overall, Matthew Golden. Golden ran high four two on this. On the field, you look at him, you go, is he really that fast? Does he look that fat? But I'll tell you now, as the season went on down there in Texas and he got more comfortable with offense, he looked for two. In the beginning of the season, he didn't. So a lot of times, you know, how a guy plays on the field versus how he times on the track is a function of how comfortable are you with the offense that you're running? How confident do you feel? I mean, there's a lot of different things that go into that. But by the way, I love Matthew golden, by the way. And Steve Sarkeesian told me, Sark told me just yesterday. Sark told me just yesterday. Wherever he goes, he is a character guy, a culture builder. He'll do exactly what you want. And he's got so much Runway ahead of him. And so for the packers to pick, I mean, it was just perfect. It was a perfect match between this organization and him. Perfect.
- [53:44]
Joe Thomas
It's good to see you.
- [53:45]
Rick Neuheisel
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [53:46]
Joe Thomas
Thanks for all your contributions.
- [53:48]
Rick Neuheisel
Always, man.
- [53:49]
Joe Thomas
Whenever we called, you were available to help make us smarter.
- [53:52]
Rick Neuheisel
Yeah, I appreciate it.
- [53:53]
Dan Patrick
Thanks a lot.
- [53:53]
Joe Thomas
He's Lewis Riddick of the Mothership.
- [53:57]
Dan Patrick
Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio Apple hey friend.
- [54:09]
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- [55:18]
Michael Kassin
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [55:26]
Dan Patrick
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [55:29]
Michael Kassin
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [55:32]
Dan Patrick
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [55:41]
Michael Kassin
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [55:51]
Joe Thomas
On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am A red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned in a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open. No traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found except for a cassette tape lodged in the player. On that tape were 10. Vile.
- [56:20]
Dan Patrick
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [56:24]
Joe Thomas
Grotesque.
- [56:25]
Dan Patrick
Oh my God. Oh my God.
- [56:28]
Joe Thomas
Horrific stories that to this day have been kept restricted from the public until now. You feeling this too? A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [56:50]
Dan Patrick
I'm Israel Gutierrez and I'm hosting a new podcast, Dub Dynasty. The story of how the Golden State warriors have dominated the NBA for over a decade.
- [57:00]
Rick Neuheisel
The Golden State warriors once again are NBA champions.
- [57:05]
Dan Patrick
From the building of the core that included Klay Thompson and Draymond Green to one of the boldest coaching decisions in the history of the sport. I just felt like the biggest thing.
- [57:14]
Rick Neuheisel
Was to earn the trust of the players and let the players know we were here to try to help them.
- [57:19]
Dan Patrick
Take the next step, not tear anything down. Today, the warriors dynasty remains alive in large part because of a scrawny 6 foot 2 hooper who everyone seems to.
- [57:29]
Lewis Riddick
Love for what Steph has done for the game. He's certainly on that, like Mount Rushmore.
- [57:33]
Rick Neuheisel
For guys that have changed it.
- [57:35]
Dan Patrick
Come revisit this magical warriors ride. This is Dove Dynasty.
- [57:39]
Michael Kassin
The Doves dynasty is still very much alive.
- [57:43]
Dan Patrick
Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover.
- [58:09]
Rick Neuheisel
Hoover was furious.
- [58:11]
Michael Kassin
Somebody violated the FBI and he wanted.
- [58:15]
Dan Patrick
To bring the Catholic left to its knees. The FBI went around to all their neighbors and said to them, do you.
- [58:21]
Michael Kassin
Think these people are good Americans?
- [58:23]
Dan Patrick
It's got heists, tragedy, a trial of the century, and the God damnedest love story you've ever heard.
- [58:30]
Lewis Riddick
I picked up the phone and my.
- [58:32]
Dan Patrick
Thought was this is the most important phone call I'll ever make in my life. I couldn't believe it.
- [58:37]
Better Woman Representative
I mean, Brendan, it was divine intervention.
- [58:42]
Dan Patrick
Listen to divine intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [58:54]
Joe Thomas
NFL Network Insider. He'll be part of the coverage. They start tonight, seven eastern with rounds two and three as we make way for Tom Hellis.
- [59:09]
Dan Patrick
You know, do I hug you now? Do I across the desk?
- [59:16]
Joe Thomas
I'm not a hugger. You do have to have your phone out if you're an insider. It's mandatory, right?
- [59:21]
Dan Patrick
There's Literally, people responding to texts that I sent about 1am because I think the, the league is just now beginning to wake up.
- [59:28]
Joe Thomas
Where. Okay, so the oddest place you gotten a text or responded to a text today ever.
- [59:38]
Dan Patrick
I mean, if you can, if you can think of it, I, I have done it.
- [59:42]
Joe Thomas
Oh, I can think of it. But I don't know.
- [59:44]
Dan Patrick
Poolside, you know, jumping out of the pool on spring breaks, I got a little, the little ding on my apple watch and jumping out to tweet something poolside. That's a.
- [59:51]
Joe Thomas
Okay.
- [59:52]
Dan Patrick
That's a fairly good one.
- [59:53]
Joe Thomas
Okay. Yeah, there's late, late night.
- [59:55]
Dan Patrick
Late nights. Oh, I mean, absolutely. I mean, getting woken up in bed because the phone starts ringing and finding out, you know, the Raiders just fired their offensive coordinator at 1am and then just going, all right, well, I guess I got to deal with this now. My wife has gotten used to it. You know, it's just like, oh, what is it now? My Raiders fired the O.C. it's like again, I'm like, yes. What happens?
- [60:16]
Joe Thomas
Take me back to yesterday at this time. What did you think was going to happen?
- [60:21]
Dan Patrick
Cammore was obviously going one. The question of two is, were the Browns and the Jaguars going to put together that deal? They'd been working on it for a few days. It wasn't until a couple hours before though, that it started to become clear this was really happening. And the Jaguars are going up and getting Travis Hunter. You know, at 3. It had been over the last several days pretty clear that the Giants were going to go with Abdul Carter and probably try to trade up for a quarterback, which I thought was going to be Jackson. Dart. I didn't know, but I thought it was Dart. You know, the real action I think began with obviously the trade up from five to two. But then it was when we got into the middle of the first round because this was a draft where there just weren't that many blue chip type players. And so all of a sudden when it's, you know, guys are beginning to slide when the Falcons trade back up and get a second pass rusher, obviously what happened with the Giants there? There weren't a lot of surprise names in round one, but there were definitely some surprises just in terms of how aggressive teams were. How many times did you guys on this show probably talk about there hadn't been a single first round pick moved? We had not only a handful of trades last night, we had 2, 20, 26 first rounders change hands. So we're already way ahead of the game here.
- [61:27]
Joe Thomas
How surprised Were you should Dor Sanders doesn't go.
- [61:31]
Dan Patrick
I would say this on Shador Sanders. When you talk to people in the league like I have and the coaches and executives and GMs, I listed him when I wrote my 12,000word quarterback story as a round one to two guy. And that's the same one as, as Jackson Dart, as Jaylen Milro, as Tyler Schuck. All four of those guys were kind of bunched together together. In the opinion of the people within the league who had studied it, who had interviewed all these guys and done the pro days and the private workouts. There was one quarterback who profiled as a surefire starter and that was Cam Ward. You got four other guys who are kind of on the border and Shador is one of those. Listen, he was a highly productive college quarterback. We know how they turn things around from a one win team at Colorado. You know, he's very accurate, he's very tough. People love that about him. But he's not the biggest guy. He doesn't have the biggest arm. He's not an elite athlete, which you would expect being Dion's kid, that he would be. And so that just raises questions when your entire game is built off this freewheeling style and every highlight is you scrambling around and throwing off your back foot and things like there's real questions, is that going to work or is he going to have to transition to be more of a Drew Brees style processor? That's one of the most common comps is, you know, from a size perspective, arm perspective of he's very, you know, he's clearly smart, but he hasn't had to really go through progressions, you know. And so it's a learning process when you're talking about adjusting your game. On top of obviously all the other things that have been discussed about the culture shock of him coming into an NFL building, I'm not surprised. I wouldn't have been surprised if he went in round one. I wasn't surprised he didn't.
- [63:03]
Joe Thomas
It's interesting that you bring up the processing. I was told the same thing yesterday and I was told by my source that he didn't have a first round grade on him and that he wasn't going in the first round in his opinion. And he said it's no knock on what he did in college. He was great in college, but there are a lot of guys who are great in college. And I said, can you see a comparison between him and Baker Mayfield? Size wise, attitude wise, confident, slash, cocky. And I think There is a comparison there, but we might look at what, what Baker does and go, yeah, but we don't like that with Shador Sanders.
- [63:43]
Dan Patrick
I think some of the same stuff was said about Baker Mayfield. I recall writing that back in that draft, which was, I think 2018 was the, the Baker Mayfield draft. And there were people who he rubbed the wrong way. Baker had some bad interviews. I remember him going to the Senior bowl and he was there for like half a day and people were like, we couldn't even get him in the room. And like just this guy. You remember all the stuff at college, the crotch grabbing and you've tried to run away from the cops that one time and got taken down. Like there was just all this, like this stuff that you were trying to deal with with him, you know, and Shador doesn't have those things. There's not off the field concerns with Shador. He's not a party guy. Like, he's all football. The people you talk to, like, he wants to be great. I think the bigger question besides all the physical stuff I just said is just when you've only played for your father, going all the way back from youth football through high school, through college, there's a different accountability structure that comes with that. Was your door. Sanders ever going to get benched? If he had a bad game, was he ever going to get benched? Everybody else lives in fear of being benched. You come into an NFL locker room, you're not going to probably have as much input on who your quarterbacks coach and your ocr, what plays are called, what the locker room looks like and those and things like that. You're walking into a different type of an environment and on top of that, you know, the other part of it, and I just, I hate the idea of like, like, you know, he's sliding. A, there are a lot of people like you just said who didn't have first round grades on him. But B, there's so few quarterback teams. This isn't like, well, there's no, you know, we'll take best player available, we'll take another guard. You don't go, well, best player available, we'll take another quarterback. It's like, no, people don't do that. Last night there were only really two spots that Shador could have gone, and that was the, the Giants or was to the Steelers at 21. The Giants obviously had Jackson Dart graded above him, which I was told from a football perspective had a lot to do with the ability of just the layers to his game. You can run RPOs and read options. Things like Dable did with Josh Allen, like he did with Daniel Jones in. In Dable's first year when he was the coach of the year and won a playoff game. You know, with Shador, that's just not his style of play. So they chose to go a different direction. And that's the other part of it. When I mentioned all these other quarterbacks. So two went off the board last night. The next three, in all likelihood in some order, will be Shadour Sanders, Jalen Milroe and Tyler Shaw Shuck. And you could not find three more different guys out there. Tyler Shuck is like the processing guy, but he's just tall. He's a pure pocket passer, decent athlete, but not a runner. And he's probably got a limited type of upside. Jalen Milro is all upside. Unbelievable runner, huge arm, just doesn't know where it's going. Can you teach him to improve the accuracy? Shador is a much more polished passer than Jalen Milro, but he's not the athlete. And what this goes back to is when your source is saying that to you, it's about traits. Well, people have to understand with scouting, it's not just, well, this guy had the most passing yards. Kyle McCord would go number one if that were the case. No, it's what are the traits that project? What do you see this player as in the NFL? One scout told me on Shador, their comp was it's like Geno Smith with a little less arm. And I think that that's probably a fairly. You can argue the comparison, but I think that that's a fair way of looking at it, which is Shador, even though he ran around a lot in college, he was running around to throw. He's not a scramble to run guy, pocket passer. And it took Gino quite a while to go from the guy at West Virginia to the one that now is, you know, had this amazing renaissance in Seattle and now Vegas.
- [66:58]
Joe Thomas
We're talking to Tom Peticero, NFL Network Insider. So let the audience understand what you do today with your job as far as are you making calls about last night or making calls about tonight night?
- [67:12]
Dan Patrick
Predominantly making calls about tonight. Most of my work from last night was sending a series of texts, going to sleep and then waking up to see what people said, because I'd be on Good morning football at 7am today. Now the rest of today is more about it's not just, okay, what's going to happen in those first few picks Every year there's a report there probably will be one today that the team at 33 is shopping that pick and like two thirds of the time they don't trade it. But that is the next selection. Hey, if you want to come up, because everybody now gets a chance to reset and get the top guy left on your board board, we're open for business. You want to pay a premium to come up and get them, you can go ahead and do that. This is also now, over the next, really 24 hours, the phase of the draft where any veteran players who have uncertain situations if they're going to be traded, it's probably going to happen right now. So to take for example, Trey Hendrickson, who the Bengals have wanted a first round pick if they're going to trade them, there hasn't seemed to be a lot of momentum or action on that front while they're also still having conversations about his contract. Well, if you get past the point of even getting a two form, the second round comes and goes. Now you're talking about 2026 draft capital, which doesn't help the 2025 Bengals who think that they can compete for a Super bowl right now. And so whether it is, you know, Jalen Ramsey, whether it's some of those tight ends whose names have been out there, Dallas Goddard, Mark Andrews, if it's going to happen, it happens now. But the other thing that you see is as the draft is going on, some of those teams, like, let's say you're Howie Roseman and you're shopping Dallas Goddard and you think, all right, the Colts really need a tight end, like, that's my spot. I'll get a third day pick for him. Then they go, hey, Tyler Warren just fell in our lap. We got our tight end. They're out of the mix. And so the pool of teams willing to draft gets smaller sometimes. Also you have somebody who gets drafted and you're like, huh, why'd they take that guy when they have this guy? And that's because they're ready for him to become available here over these next 48 hours.
- [68:52]
Joe Thomas
If the Steelers don't take a quarterback, finish that sentence.
- [68:58]
Dan Patrick
They better, they better hope that Aaron Rodgers decides to play. They are comfortable with Mason Rudolph if as a stopgap type of starter. I think you also have a reflection within the league right now. The 2025 draft may not be good as the 2026 draft for quarterbacks. Think about some of the things that already happened in this draft. The Browns traded back, they didn't take A quarterback, they could still take one. They got two of the first four picks tonight, but they added a first round pick next year from the Jaguars which gives them ammunition. The Rams, after trying to trade up, I believe it was for Mecha Buka last night, they end up bailing out.
- [69:32]
Joe Thomas
Well, they were, they were looking to get.
- [69:33]
Dan Patrick
My understanding was there were two teams that were both trying to trade up. It was the Texans and the Rams. And the moment the Bucks surprised everybody by taking a Mecha Abuka, the receiver from Ohio State, the calls stopped. Those teams were calling all the teams above them and all of a sudden the calls stopped, stopped. So that's the belief that Abuka was the guy. He goes off the board, Rams bailout, they pick up a first rounder next year which if Matthew Stafford continues to be year to year again might give you the ammunition to move up.
- [70:03]
Joe Thomas
Is Arch Manning already top of mock drafts?
- [70:07]
Dan Patrick
I think the early ones, but the early ones sometimes are not an accurate reflection of where we end up. Cam Ward a year ago was a mid round draft pick. Shador Sanders was the one that everybody was, was, was talking about. You know, these things vary but certainly I mean Arch just based on, you know, the lineage and the athletic ability. You know Quinn yours is going to get drafted. He drafted tonight in the third round. But you know I had one long time assistant coach who said like when you go back and forth, you're watching Texas tape, if you're watching the wide receivers or whatever. So you're watching a cut up and it's like you could tell the difference when the ball is coming off Arch Manning's hand. There's a lot there. There's obviously run ability and athletic ability which is not generally what the Mannings are, are associated with. He's going to be a top prospect but he also hasn't been the starter because Steve Sarkeesian had a great deal of loyalty to Quinn yours who won a lot of football games. Quinn yours is one of like the under talked about guys in this entire draft. And it has to do with the fact much like Shador, he is smaller, he doesn't have a big arm, limp, not an elite athlete, but very productive and efficient with what he did and won a ton of football games on a team that went to the college Football playoff twice. They were 111 on the road with him as the starter. He's one of two quarterbacks in the last decade to beat Nick Saban at Alabama along with Joe Burrow. Like you'd think saying that resume, the guy would be Going number one. But that goes back to the Shador Sanders question. Why isn't he going higher? Well, if his athletic profile compares much more to Quinn Ewers than it might even to Cam Ward, that should help people understand a little more why he's still on the board.
- [71:34]
Joe Thomas
Wildest rumor you've heard?
- [71:37]
Dan Patrick
I mean, there were a few yesterday.
- [71:39]
Joe Thomas
Okay, now once again, not, not reporting.
- [71:43]
Dan Patrick
Right. I'm trying to think what the wildest one was yesterday. Cuz some of them came true. I mean, the Falcons coming back up for a second pass rusher was a pretty wild, wild type of a thing. Even the Jaguars trading up for Travis Hunter, that seemed completely wild. And then it ended up happening. I would say we're kind of out of the, the, the rumor area of it, but I would say this, all right. For quarterbacks today, the wild. All right, I'll give you this one, the wildest rumor. I'd phrase it as more than a rumor, but the wildest rumor is that the third quarterback off the board will not be Shador Sanders. It will not be Jalen Milroe. It'll be Tyler Schuck, who was Justin Herbert's backup for two years at Oregon. That will shock a lot of people. So brace yourselves for all the talk about Shador last night. I'm not saying this will happen, but it's entirely possible he's not the third, maybe not the fourth quarterback off the board.
- [72:39]
Joe Thomas
Yeah, I know that the Steelers really like him. I was that yesterday. But I, I'm not going to be surprised at that, but only because I had intel that somebody said, don't be surprised that this guy, this guy can play in the NFL. Even Lewis Riddick said he's a guy who could probably be a quarterback in the NFL for 10 years.
- [72:59]
Dan Patrick
Right?
- [73:00]
Joe Thomas
So I'm like, all right, he's, he's.
- [73:01]
Dan Patrick
One of those guys who, you know, again, lacking physical traits in terms of he doesn't have the biggest arm, but he is, he's got NFL size. You know, he's a tall guy. He does have a pretty good arm. And he's been exposed to so much. I mean, think about seven years of college football, which everyone's dream, seven years in college, other than the three major injuries. But he's been around forever and he's been exposed to all these different systems, all these different coaches. That's why he rose up during the process, was he could sit down and whatever team he was with, he was like, oh, yeah, I ran that. You know, that was 2019 in Oregon. And So he's, he's really helped himself. The one thing was shock because he's had all those injuries that people get nervous about. And there were a bunch of people brought this up to me is you can see it, it's not even so much like a risk of further injury. It's a, does it impact his play when the rush is bearing down on him? Does he shy away from contract contact? Does he have a little bit of a flinch to him? That's going to bother some people more than others. But if you're one of those people out of, let's say the Shanahan McVeigh style of offense, where you just want him to see it, process it, get the football to his playmakers, you're going to like Tyler Shock.
- [74:03]
Joe Thomas
He's got first round hair. He's Tom Pelissero, NFL Network Insider and absolutely the end of the day, how's my hair look? 2025 draft draft tonight at 7 Eastern on NFL Network. Thanks for joining us.
- [74:19]
Dan Patrick
Pleasure, Dan.
- [74:23]
Michael Kassin
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [74:30]
Dan Patrick
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [74:33]
Michael Kassin
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [74:36]
Dan Patrick
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down Once all, all 257 picks have been made.
- [74:45]
Michael Kassin
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [74:54]
Dan Patrick
My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious.
- [75:11]
Michael Kassin
He was out of his mind and.
- [75:12]
Dan Patrick
He wanted to bring bring the Catholic left to its knees. Listen to Divine intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sam Mullins and I've got a new podcast coming out called goboy.
- [75:29]
Michael Kassin
The gritty true story of how one.
- [75:31]
Dan Patrick
Man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable.
- [75:35]
Better Woman Representative
Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted.
- [75:37]
Joe Thomas
Has spent 24 of those years in jail.
- [75:40]
Michael Kassin
But when Roger Caron picked up a.
- [75:41]
Dan Patrick
Pen and paper, he went from an ex con to a literary darling from Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts. Listen to GoBoy on the iHeartRadio app.
- [75:51]
Michael Kassin
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [75:55]
Dan Patrick
I'm ready to fight. Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best.
- [76:01]
Joe Thomas
Selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to.
- [76:06]
Dan Patrick
Use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of black queer creativity is the fact that we got us.
- [76:13]
Rick Neuheisel
You know, we are the greatest culture makers in world history.
- [76:19]
Joe Thomas
Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio.
- [76:21]
Dan Patrick
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [76:28]
Michael Kassin
I'm Michael Kasson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good.
- [76:32]
Dan Patrick
Company, the podcast where I sit down.
- [76:34]
Michael Kassin
With the boldest innovators shaping what's next.
- [76:37]
Joe Thomas
In this episode, I'm joined by Angeli Sud, CEO of Tubi.
- [76:41]
Michael Kassin
We dive into the competitive world of streaming.
- [76:43]
Better Woman Representative
What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core.
- [76:46]
Dan Patrick
There's so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.
- [76:59]
Joe Thomas
Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio.
- [77:01]
Michael Kassin
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your.