← The Dan Patrick Show
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- [00:00]
Jake Storiale
We are joined by a very special guest today. It's Katie Wu from the Athletic. And most importantly, the potential Big 12 champion Arizona State Sun Devils.
- [00:12]
Katie Wu
That's right. That's right. And I have waited, I don't know, my whole life for this. So, not to be dramatic, but my mood at the winter meetings, which start Sunday, will be directly Correlated to if ASU wins the Big 12 championship game on Saturday. If they win, you can expect some really good work from me. If they don't, just going to. I might not even go.
- [00:32]
Jake Storiale
Well, you're in a safe place for that attitude because that's kind of how we operate here. Winter meetings. Is it in Dallas or Arlington?
- [00:43]
Katie Wu
Actually, Dallas, I think.
- [00:44]
Jake Storiale
Actually, Dallas.
- [00:45]
Katie Wu
Actually, Dallas.
- [00:46]
Jake Storiale
I kind of. I kind of screwed up on that one. We were kind of like, we're not doing it. But I love Dallas. I lived there for a year and a half. Maybe I'll just panic and buy a flight. We'll see. Probably won't. Katie Wu, I want to talk to you mostly about life. We'll start with your early years and we'll work our way up. But I did want to talk the NL Central, everyone's favorite division. I. You know me, I play for clicks. So I said, let's do our Central Division. But honestly, part of the genuine excitement around it, besides being baseball losers, is your Cardinals. And this is part where I got the initial idea. You know, I. I was reading my tea leaves at first. I was like, wait, there's some money coming off the books. Like, these are the Cardinals, right? These are the proud St. Louis Cardinals. You. You've lived in St. Louis for a while now. This is. This is our team. The Rams are out. Like, let's figure this out. The Central is available and there's free agents to have. Let's move a couple pieces. And I was like, ooh, could they be. I've been looking for a Corbin Burns team for a while, and I can't find it. And I keep going through NL Central teams where I'm like, wait, well, maybe St. Louis put their chips in. Or will the Cubs? The Cubs have tormented me more than St. Louis because I have no clue what they're doing. The Pirates, they told us they were going to buy at the deadline, and they've dfa one of those players, and IKF remains. Story of my life. And the brewers just find a way to win the division. So, as you can tell, I just chugged a coffee and I'm running a little hot. Anyways. More.
- [02:27]
Katie Wu
More.
- [02:27]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, let's start with your St. Louis Cardinals because, well, I'll just let you go because I don't. From our previous exchanges, I don't want to misquote anything. So please, you go.
- [02:39]
Katie Wu
Well, it's. The NL Central is. They're so complicated. They're a little toxic because it just feels like you just need one team that's built to win 90 games and it's going to win the division pretty much uncontested every year. And for a very long time, the Cardinals had built this threshold of if we win 90 games, we're going to get into the playoffs and then who knows from there. But what they were doing was not sustainable. If you look at their success from 2020, you know, they made the playoffs 20 from 2019 to 2022, and then, of course, 2023 happened in 2024 was better, but still not enough to get them back into October baseball. So in what will be the final year of their longtime president, baseball operations John Moszalok's tenure, they are taking a step back, which is very unusual for the people of Cardinals land. The Cardinals don't necessarily concede being competitive, but they are doing that. They want to reset because they're trying to get back to what they were good at. And when the Cardinals were at their prime at their peak, they weren't spending a lot of money, but they were developing players consistently through their farm system, and they did a really, really good job in that. They have lost their way in that regard. So they are going back to what they were good at. It's just going to take potentially a year, probably a little bit more, to get them back into the swing of things, if you will. But it's very weird because I can't remember a time, you know, covering the Cardinals or even just following baseball, where St. Louis went out and actively said, we're taking a step back for the next season. So that's kind of where the N Central already gets a little weird, right? When do the Cardinals say, hey, probably not going to be us this year? And then to me, it gets a little bit more weird because I'm not sure which of the four teams. I mean, I think you're going to have to go brewers just because they've been so good over the last few years. Which of those four teams is going to step up and really make it their division again? I don't know. It's a frustrating, maddening place here in the NL Central.
- [04:33]
Jake Storiale
It's. I mean, that Cardinals mindset, like, sure, right. Like, this is how Teams are built the lifeblood. Let's get our youth going. It's also scary because nothing's guaranteed. And the Cardinals themselves, I mean, they became trade memed for a little bit because it was like, wait, who. Where did Randy come from? Where did, like, you know, you could. You people were putting together their St. Louis Cardinals lineup of. Not St. Louis Cardinals, where, you know, it just feels like they had a generation of prospects kind of pass through. I mean, the Dylan Carlson, like, I. Katie, I did three years of Dylan Carlson trade rumors just for. For it to land like that, like, that makes me a little mopey. But it's. There's also pieces here. Like, I loved watching Mason win, play. Like, every time I got to see him, I was like, wait, that dude, he plays with like a little football, like, dog energy out there. I love that. Obviously Aaronado, which is an interesting topic of this whole off season, and then the Wilson Contreras update that he's moving. And then you just, you look at a. If you look at a lot of rosters around the league, it's like, hey, these Cardinals, they have stuff like, I've. I've seen Brendan Donovan play good baseball. I've seen Al Burl. So I don't know, I guess that's where it sounds like the right move. It sounds like, hey, let's. Let's get our bearings. Let's let the kids play and properly figure this out. But I don't know, there's also a side to that, that, you know, Kyle Gibson, Lancelin, Paul Goldschmidt coming off the books. I. I don't know. I guess maybe I'm the one that needs to just put on different goggles.
- [06:15]
Katie Wu
No, not necessarily. Because there is a way for this organization to upgrade their player development and see what they have internally and also, you know, supplement the club with free agency. The ownership is actively choosing not to. And I know some of this, this is a fair argument for the ownership sake had a lot to do with the. The lack of clarity involving their TV plans. That was a legit thing to not plan for in payroll. They're, you know, they are losing about a quarter of their revenue that they planned for in 2025 from TV. So I do understand that aspect. But, you know, you are the St. Louis Cardinals, and that ownership group has done a tremendous job in making sure that this, this organization is competitive almost every single year. But the Cardinals being operated like they are small market because they are occupied in a small market town doesn't always fly with me. Because St. Louis is always consistently top five in attendance. They're a historic franchise. I swear I go to every airport in America and I see at least six Cardinals hats like the fans are there. It's not necessarily a small market team when you look at it outside of their geographical location, but this is what they're choosing to do. They're going to supplement the funds and re upgrade their player development. I think the Cardinals will have some farm system hires coming up in the next couple of days. Overall though, it's just a matter of in 2025 looking at their young talent and figuring out hey, what kind of pieces can we build around next year as Lars new bar going to be that guy. You know they know they have Mason win, right? Totally agree with everything you said. He's a dog. What can Alec Burleson do? We've seen him against right handed hitters. That's a legit contact bat. What can they count on him consistently for? What does catching look like behind the plate now with Wilson Contreras moving to first? What is their pitching look like? And you really don't know what you have internally until you can run these guys out every day. And what, what makes the season different is that the Cardinals are saying we are okay running the same group of guys out every day to see what we have, even if it means we lose some winnable ball games. And that has not happened before under most tenure at least.
- [08:14]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, I mean that's for any of our Cardinals friends tuning in. That's. Those are words that that fan base hasn't heard since, I don't know like ever. Right.
- [08:26]
Katie Wu
Like you don't hear the Cardinals and they're not calling it a rebuild and I kind of made fun of them for that until I fully understood what they were doing. I don't think it's a full rebuild teardown. It is a reset and it's probably the right thing to do. Otherwise you're just going to be stuck in this perpetual cycle. I mean they spent their entire rotation, their opening day rotation last year was built all out of free agency. It's just not sustainable. And how are you going to know what you have with this young pipeline of talent in the minor leagues, especially on a pitching side, if you're consistently trying to buy spots just to make sure you get to the playoffs and then in 23 and 24, obviously it did not work.
- [09:05]
Jake Storiale
What are the hesitation in my voice is you're like a, you're a real person in baseball. Like you talk to people in the front offices and stuff that I guess I wanted to ask, like what are the odds Nolan Arenado actually gets traded? But I don't know where your boundaries are on like talking about that.
- [09:26]
Katie Wu
Boundaries. Boundaries don't exist. You know that. That's. I was just kidding.
- [09:30]
Jake Storiale
But boundaries do exist.
- [09:32]
Katie Wu
They do exist for Nolan. It's so complicated because it's not like this is a cut and dry scenario. Right. There are two things here with are an auto that we have to remember. He has a full no trade clause and he's still out about $74 million through 2027. This is a guy who's turning 34 and has had two down years offensively. I still think he's an elite defender and obviously a brand name. So I do think there is interest around the league. I've heard it. What we don't know is, you know, what teams would he approve or wave his no trade clause for. We know he's looking to play for a contender. You know, I think there is motivation within the organization to move him because you're clearing so much salary off the books. But in almost any ideal situation, I think the Cardinals are going to have to pick up some of that salary anyway to trade him. So my inkling and the people that I've talked to, I would say it's 60, 40 at this moment that Arnotto gets moved. But I think we'll have better clarity on what his market looks like come the winter meetings. Basically whenever Juan Soto signs, we'll see the domino effect, people. The teams that missed out on Soto can pivot to the next best thing. That's probably going to be the third base market. You're thinking about Alex Bregman Williams if he decides to switch from shortstop. And then you're looking at Arnotto or maybe an Alec Bohm situation with the Phillies. So right now I'm going at 60, 40 either way. It's not, you know, I think how either party would have wanted this tenure to. To potentially end. It sucks. I think aronado coming in 2021 put a jolt in this franchise. And I think about this all the time. I think about 2022, what that club could have been with Gold Schmidt and MVP Albert Pujol. 700 home runs and one really bad ninth inning in the first game of the wild card series kind of just ruined everything insane.
- [11:17]
Jake Storiale
That how that whole thing went down with health. That was insane. And was that the first year? That was the first like real year of the wild card. Right. Or was it the year.
- [11:27]
Katie Wu
Yeah, that was I think it was because they were in the wild card in 21 and lost on a Chris Taylor walk off.
- [11:33]
Jake Storiale
Crazy, crazy silly game. We, we like final two Cardinal ones. Who's. I mentioned some young guys for the Cardinals. You know, whether Victor Scott, Jordan Walker has been an interesting exercise. I was going to say Cardinals young pitchers. I'm, I'm not familiar with too many old. You know, like right now the rotation looks like Gray Fetty, Michaelis, Matts and Palante. I guess give me who's going to be the young Cardinals player that. Okay, if we are going to do this and we're, we're the Cardinals, we're going to let some of the youth play. Who's the one young guy that we're going to be hearing about either at spring training or next year that we should be excited about? And the other one I want to know is like who's the, who's the sneaky Cardinals free agent that Cardinals fans are talking about? Like, this guy's a great fit for us.
- [12:30]
Katie Wu
Okay, let's, let's start with the young pitcher. I think the Palante deserves a lot of credit for what he did last year and I like him. Yeah, he's, he's cool. He's funky, deceptive.
- [12:40]
Jake Storiale
It's a cool name, too. It like fits.
- [12:43]
Katie Wu
Yeah, very. This.
- [12:44]
Jake Storiale
Yes. Right.
- [12:45]
Katie Wu
Yeah. But I'm going to go with Mike McGreevey, who was their 2021 first round pick. He debuted last year, made some changes in Triple A last year and came up and was dominant. I mean his last three starts to end the year. I think people were like, where is this guy been? Why didn't the Cardinals call him up earlier? And they will definitely have plans to use him in 2025. He's just a, a chill, funny guy. Great quote. That's not why I like him. But that does play into his overall stock. Right. But I think he'll be a, there's a reason he was drafted as a first rounder. I know he took some steps back in Triple A and there were questions if he'd reached that ceiling. But in his limited sample size in the majors last year, I was really encouraged by it and I think he's a name to watch come spring training. Cardinals free agents. I would like to, you know, usually we're talking about not necessarily the top guys in the market because, you know, St. Louis doesn't really do that. But you're looking at maybe the B tier. Not this year. Mo has gone out and said it, you know, it highly unlikely they go out and they look at the free agent market at all. I don't know at all. At all. They wanted to see what they have internally. They want to see what Jordan Walker does in the outfield with every can Nolan Gorman cut the strikeout rate down. You know, what does Victor Scott look like? What about Michael Siani in center field? Who's going to win that upcoming center field job? You can go on and on. Thomas the JC coming up as a utility guy. Pretty much the only spots they have solidified next year are Mason Wynn, Brendan Donovan and Lars New bar to an extent. But Lars has to figure out a way to stay on the field and stay healthy. So doesn't look like the Cardinals will be looking around the free agent market at all. I mean that's at least what Mo has said. Things can change but I wouldn't be surprised if they just kind of avoid that market entirely.
- [14:29]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, just it blows my mind a little bit and maybe that's just spoiled Yankee culture a little bit. But it's the St. Louis Cardinals. I. I still don't fully believe it yet. Like I feel like there's going to be the. The cheeky we got this guy for a good value and maybe, maybe the car. Like I feel like there's going to be a week of spring training that's like maybe these Cardinals are actually back and I'm kind of excited for that and I'll probably be reading your article on the Athletic about it. So that's the good news.
- [14:58]
Katie Wu
This is the division. This is the division for surprises.
- [15:00]
Jake Storiale
We are getting ready as the postseason continues inside the warehouse walls. Blitzball Battle five. We've got two time champion Forgotten Ro the two seed taking on the eight seed in hook line sinkers.
- [15:13]
Katie Wu
We saw a very good hook line.
- [15:15]
Jake Storiale
In the last game.
- [15:16]
Katie Wu
Well, let's say very good Drew Davis with Trevor Plouffe. The bat has kind of gone missing if I'm honest. I think it's time we see him show up.
- [15:23]
Jake Storiale
It's still hard for me to pick against Forgotten Rotten in this game. I don't know how much old man Dan's arm can stand up to it. Trevor's gonna figure it out at the plate. We know he could pitch shelf. He's been solid this tournament. It's for gotten rotten from me guides.
- [15:37]
Katie Wu
I also think that the amount of games is going to be either a positive or a negative. I'm not sure yet. I'm picking hook line. I've got forgotten rotten.
- [15:45]
Jake Storiale
I think Trevor Plouffe is pissed and embarrassed in the batter's box where he allegedly played for eight seasons in the major league.
- [15:51]
Katie Wu
Allegedly.
- [15:51]
Jake Storiale
That's where he made his money. Trevor Plouffe, live up to your own bravado. We will see you later today. Blitzball Battle 5 inside the warehouse. Well, I. I feel like we should talk about the brewers, but I feel like the Brewer story is almost the same every year. Maybe we will, because I. They deserve more respect because they've kind of been the class of the division. Now they are probably losing Willie Adonis, who was, you know, a huge part of their team. Well, hey, another part of this that I thought would be cool, but if you don't think it's cool, like, whatever. If you wanted to shout out a person from the brewers that maybe people could follow, whether athletic or not athletic, that you're like, that's kind of your brewers, go to person. But I guess with the Milwaukee brewers, what. What should the conversation be besides, hey, they've got young guys that play defense and a couple of them hit and they always pitch.
- [16:50]
Katie Wu
Well, they're. The thing with the brewers last year was that they were just super athletic. And there was a lot of reason. You know, I do think the brewers are kind of just cat, like, cast it out doubted. I don't know why, because they pretty much own that division, at least since I've been in the NL Central. And if they can keep up that athletic, I don't know, embodiment. Oh, next year under Pat Murphy, who did a heck of a job under some really not great circumstances to start the year. Then, yes, of course, losing to Domest. That sucks. He was so dynamic in that top part of the order. And there, you know, there's always going to be questions on if the brewers trade Devin Williams, but what Milwaukee does really well is they find talent to mix and match. And it comes up from their farm system as well. And Pat Murphy puts it together and they just do the things that could baseball teams do. And it sounds so simple, right? But watching them work their walks, be selective in counts, steal bases, take advantage of little mistakes, it made sense why their record was the way that it was, because they just played athletic, good baseball. So I don't want to diminish losing Adamus, maybe Devin Williams, that those will be big pieces. But every year the brewers do this. I mean, last year was Corbin Burns, and everyone was like, oh, nope, not going to be the brewers here. It was very much the brewers ear in that NL Central. So I don't know. I watch. I watch the brewers when I Can I would Personally follow Adam McElvey of MLB.com he is a guy, he's wonderful. He does a great job over there. But I'm, I'm still. If I'm picking a, a front runner for the division, it's not like outlandish to say Milwaukee. It's always Milwaukee.
- [18:26]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, they, they've kind of earned that credit. Like last year was the test. Like trading Corbin was like, okay, if they survive this and they did more than that. Like Joey Ortiz, who people thought was the like of the throw in of the trade. He could be the gem of the trade and probably they're starting shortstop. Yeah, there's, there's something that I can't decide if I like it or hate it yet. Between the bigger market and smaller market teams that, you know, the brewers and the early Rays crack the code. It was like, hey, if you're going to play on our team, you need to play great defense. Like that's where it starts. Running is usually a part of that. If you're athletic enough to play good defense. And then any hitting we get is bonus and we're going to pitch the hell out of the ball. That, that is a formula to get you a over.500. And then a lot of those years get you into that 90s wins categories. That with the expanded playoffs is all you need right now that you, you look around their, their diamond and it's, it's a lot of very good defensive ball players and guys with the potential. It's like, okay, Garrett Mitchell, who are you? Are you, Are you great? Are you the top like 25 prospect? That meant missing for a while and now you've actually played a little bit of good baseball. That, I mean, what they do with the pitching, that's the secret. I mean, Tobias Myers off of the White Sox scrap heap to becoming a 25 start 3 flat era. It's. Everyone needs that brewers pitching lab.
- [20:01]
Katie Wu
It's insane. And for any organization that's, you know, I feel like it's maybe just the organization I cover that doesn't see the value in a pitching lab. I mean that this is where I think the Cardinals really fell behind is how they developed modern day pitching. I mean their current pitching coach, Dusty Blake was doing everything in terms of like pitching development, overhauling the entire system and then taking care of a major league staff. I, I think if you just look across the division to what the brewers are doing, it's the ideal blueprint of how to get the best and the most out of your organization. And I Think the brewers do that about as well, if not the best as any team in the National League.
- [20:37]
Jake Storiale
Agree. You got me.
- [20:39]
Katie Wu
We have so much in common.
- [20:40]
Jake Storiale
And shout out to Milwaukee, if I remember correctly. Sneaky. One of your favorite road cities.
- [20:47]
Katie Wu
That is true. I always have a great time in Milwaukee. If you are ever going and you want a list of things to do, places to eat, bars to go. They don't close till three out there, so you can have a time. I don't know that from experience or anything. It's just what I was told. Milwaukee though, sleeper city. Gotta get out there in the summer.
- [21:04]
Jake Storiale
That's, you know, a lot of people probably would have lost that bet coming into this, but I'm happy for you. We did a trip to Milwaukee. I didn't, I didn't get to see as much of it as I'd like, but hopefully, hopefully we'll get back out there soon. I think the other. Okay, let me start over. Sometimes I forget how much I truly like, just like, like baseball. Like, you know, it's a little bit like of a mental problem or whatever, but it's. Things are working out so we take it. But like this whole division gets me riled up. I. The Cubs, I think have to be next because they are the ones that give me. But like, I've been so invested in these Cincinnati Reds, like baseball is now invested in these Pirates and the Paul Skeens clock that like this division's kind of electric. Let's do the Cubs because they are Cubs fans and Seattle Mariners fans have a genuine, a genuine reason to not like me currently because I'm so frustrated with both those teams. I just, I just don't get it. Mariners, the problem has been so clearly in front of you for the past three to five to 20 years. However you want to cut it, let's get some hitting. The Cubs is a new thing for me because, okay, they let that generation of Cubs baseball go like it was Schwarber, it was Rizzo, it was, you know, it was that whole guy. Like everyone always wondered who's going to be the one that stays. And like it kind of didn't. Which is pretty wild. And it's okay. Maybe that's baseball. Maybe the Cubs are smart. They're not going to have a 37 year old guy out there who's, you know, had two bad seasons for them. But remember that ring, like, no, we're moving on to the next one. I don't know. I think the Cubs front office loves this team they've assembled and they have no idea why the brewers are running laps around them. They even brought in their manager last year. Now there's some Cody Bellinger smoke this year. That could. Could be that trade. I originally wanted them to be a Corbin Burns landing spot, because then I could be like, hey, Cubs, we. You did it.
- [23:24]
Katie Wu
Like, you did it.
- [23:26]
Jake Storiale
Burns. Imanaga Steel. Like, yup, I can get into that. And then, like, your lineup makes more sense, and you guys play enough defense that, like, okay, that's it. They signed Matthew Boyd, and maybe that'll be nice for them, and that's all I'll say about that. But I feel like the Cubs. I need the Cubs to put more chips in. They have top prospects, like, coming up. I. Who's. Who's the Cubs person? And what do you have the Cubs doing?
- [23:55]
Katie Wu
Yeah, I have. I share the same sentiments about the Cubs because, again, historic franchise, obviously, money on the books to do this. And the Cubs. I think if I was a Cubs fan, I'd be so frustrated, because sometimes they're in, right? Sometimes they're in on the. On the guy. They're in on Shoda. They were in on Ballinger, right? And then they just stop being in. And it's not like this division. This isn't like the AL east, right? Like, it's the NL Central. You. The Cubs have all of the means to put together a team that could blow the rest of this division out of the water. Like, I keep thinking. I keep hearing about the Reds and how they're going to be good. And every year, I think they win about, what, 75 games, 80 games. And then the Pirates. I feel like we enter every season like, oh, next year, they're going to be good. And I do feel like there is at least a foundation to be excited about. The Pirates for. But again, Cardinals are taking a step back. Brewers, they're. They're the team to beat. But they aren't structured in a way where it's inconceivable for the Cubs to go out and make a couple of splashes, and all of a sudden, they're the top team. And I'm not. I know I'm not plugged in enough in that organization to understand why they don't. But when I go to Wrigley Field and Cardinals and Cubs play each other a lot, I look at this Cubs team and I'm like, they're so close. They're so close. Half of their lineup, I'm like, yeah, these are guys, right? And then the other half, I'm like, I Doubt that these will be the next. The names that I see when this, when these teams play a month from now again. So where can they get overall line of consistency to, to have the whole like this is our team, you know, we are built to compete. They go in on a certain select pieces and then they just don't finish the puzzle. And that's what's frustrating. If I was a Cubs fan, I just finished the puzzle. It's really like it's right there.
- [25:38]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, it's. I, I guess I'm. I'm stumbling into what my new Jakeism about them is going to be. My, my San Francisco Giants thing for the past couple years is that they have like eight six hole hitters and it's like, okay, like this is kind of something, but this is nothing like that's where the Giants have been. The Cubs feel like a step up above that, but it's also, you know, Seiya Suzuki, I feel like I check in one month and he's hitting third for them and he's the hottest hitter in the National League. And then I'll check in another month and it's like oh, say has been benched and I, I don't know. There's something to that that doesn't fit the storyline of a baseball season in win streaks that I don't know. I'm very interested to see the Cody Bellinger trade. Feels like there's enough smoke there and money there that make sense for them to move on. But I, my, my biggest concern, if I was a Cubs fan is that this front office very much believes in what they're doing, that they're not going to do a chips in move that they're gonna. No, we like this team. Let's roll it out again. And then this year could go by. They win 83 games, we call up one of the prospects, one of the prospects flamed out and then we're just in the cycle again. That they just. I guess the Cubs front office just hasn't earned the credit or respect from me yet that I don't know, the Chicago Cubs should have. They, they should, they should be the big bad wolf in that division. And they haven't been anywhere close to it.
- [27:14]
Katie Wu
No. Since their 2016, really World Championship run, it's just kind of been like, well, it's the Cubs and it shouldn't be. They're the Chicago Cubs. They are a franchise that, you know, you think about baseball, you immediately know the Cubs are in Chicago. They play at Wrigley Fields. They have the money to Do. So this would be the year for them to take a big step. And kind of seems like we're getting status quo from everybody in the division.
- [27:41]
Jake Storiale
Okay, let's do the young, fun teams that we seemingly haven't seen win in a little bit. I fell for the Reds trap. I'll be honest. I was like, wait, they. Every one of these young kids can hit. And it's funny how quickly baseball moves that. It's like, okay, now I don't know. Can Christian and Carnacio and Strand hit? I watched him hit one year. I watched him not. And they had some injuries that I do think set them back at the start. Like TJ Friedel being out, Matt McClain. Like, it's funny that their pitching felt like it came together. And then these Pittsburgh Pirates, which they're about to get on my shit list, because if you're. If your GM comes out and says, hey, yeah, we have this young pitching and now's the time, and then they did what they did at the deadline, and, hey, who knows what was available, all that. I get it. I get it. But, man, like Katie Wu, I just looked at the Pirates lineup, and this is not. This is not a wild card competing lineup.
- [28:51]
Katie Wu
Right? We talk so much about the pitching, and, yeah, the pitching is fantastic. That, you know, but every year it's like what I said. You look at the Pirates and you're like, oh, they're a year away. And then you get to this point next year, and, you know, they're still going to be a year away. It's. It's frustrating because I was there on a Tuesday night at PNC park, skiing's night, and I have gone to countless games at PNC park, where there are, like, maximum 8,000 people there. I feel like I can hear the broadcast four doors down because it's so quiet. It's Tuesday night in August, and it was electric. And Skins came super close to throwing a complete game. And just to hear how that park responded to good baseball and getting behind a player that is just, you know, lighting up the game, I was like, this could be Pirates baseball again. Why are we, like, perpetually waiting year after year for it to be that way?
- [29:45]
Jake Storiale
I don't know. I don't know. And it's. It's so true. It's such a good sports town. It's such a good stadium. Like, all of it's true. If you haven't been to PNC go our cool half flex when, like, our stuff got bigger and we didn't know yet. We did A road trip. And we stopped at a Pirates game and like, the Pirates PR guy was like, how did you not tell us you were coming? Like, they were still. I mean, again, I think this is 2021. So they were two years away from being a year away. But like, God, that fan base wants anything and they have something. Not only do they have something, they have like the second coolest thing in the sport right now. Like, besides Shohei Skeens is the guy that I don't even know. Like, are there. Are there trade rumblings? Are there. Are there free agent rumblings like this? IKF. Brian Reynolds. O'Neal, Cruz. Joey Bart. Currently listed as the cleanup. Nick Gonzalez. Andy. Okay, Nick Gonzalez. Hive. Raise up. Sure. Andy Rodriguez. Key Brian Hayes, Josh Palacios. Billy Cook is listed as the first baseman.
- [30:56]
Katie Wu
It's a very. It's a very Pirates lineup.
- [31:00]
Jake Storiale
But the pitching and Mitch Keller, Jared Jones. I don't. I don't know. I hope. I hope we come out of this off season and there's the one or two Pirate signings that were like, okay, here's the return of Josh Bell. Fantastic. But have. Have him hit sixth. I need them. The guy that I constantly have thought would be a fit for them is Brent Rooker. You know, the A's should be asking for a high price tag, but okay, if he's a DH only, that's fine. Like, slot Brent Rooker in. Cause his numbers stay with anyone. But I don't. I don't see them putting their chips on the table. It feels like they're going to wait for Tamar Johnson and see what happens. And I. So frustrating. So frustrating. It is.
- [31:56]
Katie Wu
This whole division is just so maddening there. I liked what the Pirates tried to do with the trade deadline. It didn't work out okay, but for the first time in a long time, they were like actually in it.
- [32:09]
Jake Storiale
Come July, they added.
- [32:11]
Katie Wu
Right. And they added. So I thought that was like a good step. But to me, what's really going to solidify if the Pirates are serious about taking that next step is if they do something in the off season. We haven't heard anything. That's probably because everyone is so focused on Soto and obviously are not going to be in that market. Right.
- [32:27]
Jake Storiale
I don't. I don't know. I don't know.
- [32:30]
Katie Wu
You know, go out and say that. Hot take alert.
- [32:32]
Jake Storiale
Yeah.
- [32:33]
Katie Wu
So maybe when we see like the Soto Domino's fall again, we'll have better clarity on where the. This, you know, Plan B, Plan Cs for a lot of these teams look like. I would really like to see the Pirates take. I would like to see every team in the NL Central just take one step forward, just one look. The Cardinals are already saying that they're going to do the opposite. So it's all four of you to do it, like, take advantage of that. You're actually taking two steps forward. If you think about it by that logic, once you taking a step behind you so you have a chance to take two steps forward. Consider it.
- [33:03]
Jake Storiale
Katie was life advice book coming soon.
- [33:07]
Katie Wu
Don't follow that.
- [33:10]
Jake Storiale
Are you going to tell me to quit the Reds or am I going to be bought back in and be, you know, my darkest nights being like, well, Hunter Green, singer, Lolo Martinez can work and Ellie De La Cruz, okay. He stole 67 last year. I don't know. I already know in my heart of hearts, like, when spring rolls around, I'm going to be like, I kind of like these Reds again. And I feel like I'm going to be hurt by that.
- [33:36]
Katie Wu
See, this is what toxic relationships do because I too, looked at the Reds lineup and their rotation and I was like, these are some young guys that can ball. Am I back in on the Reds? And I don't want to be labeled a Reds hater because I do think they play some fun baseball. It's just in the five years I've been in this division, I haven't seen them play like, good baseball consistently. So I would like to see that. You hear about the talent. I think the Brady Singer trade made sense for both the Reds and the Royals. You know, they both got pieces that they needed. I like Hunter Green. He's a guy for me. Not exactly a bold take to say that I'm on in on Ellie De La Cruz. Very in on him. But if they start healthy, you know, I could be back in on the Reds.
- [34:20]
Jake Storiale
Yeah.
- [34:21]
Katie Wu
And this is what's dangerous about them because they do this to you every year.
- [34:25]
Jake Storiale
Yeah. And it just feels like the brewers are just going to make. Make the relay throw in the eighth inning and then get the insurance run and they win. Like, that's. That's every Reds brewers game I've ever seen. The brewers make the defensive play to strand two runners, and then they get an insurance run on a bloop single. It's. I don't know. I don't know. I. I need Jamer to bounce back because I. I liked him and he kind of has an every other year thing. We'll see. And yeah, the Hunter Green I. Every time I see his stat Page. I'm like, wait, it was that, like, it happened. It was 275 over 26 starts. Like he, he arrived last year. And I, I think it was just one of those weird things. Cause if, if you had told Reds fans or baseball people that you were going to get the Hunter Green season, nevermind, Nick Martinez, even Andrew Abbott, like, you'd be like, okay, so it happened for the Reds and here they were. Did they finish last? Second to last to the Pirates.
- [35:32]
Katie Wu
Yeah, it's your typical Red season. Now maybe the Terry Francona era is the jolt they need. You know, that is a pretty significant change.
- [35:40]
Jake Storiale
I like that.
- [35:41]
Katie Wu
I liked it.
- [35:42]
Jake Storiale
I'm back in. You've done it.
- [35:45]
Katie Wu
There it is.
- [35:46]
Jake Storiale
You've done it. Oh, my toxic relationship. But it's Terry Francona. I can be toxic.
- [35:51]
Katie Wu
I know you. I mean, if I was looking as like a Reds fan looking to get hurt again, I wouldn't fault anyone for being excited about Terry Francona. I'm excited for Terry Francona and I don't follow the Reds really at all. So I get it. However, we've seen the story before.
- [36:08]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, okay. I'm all in on the Reds. Yeah. I mean, I'm just going to Bruce Bochi this whole thing and just be.
- [36:16]
Katie Wu
Like, yeah, it worked. It worked for Texas.
- [36:18]
Jake Storiale
They got their old man. That's how it's going to work now. Katie, what else you got? I. Any. Any other baseball thoughts that Chris Rose hasn't gotten out of you on baseball Today or anything like that, or general off season thoughts that you find yourself looking for a platform like Wake and Jake to get them out on the.
- [36:38]
Katie Wu
Platform for Awaken Jake.
- [36:40]
Jake Storiale
Yes.
- [36:42]
Katie Wu
You know, one thing I'm a little interested by, and it's not really. It's just like an observation.
- [36:47]
Jake Storiale
Sure.
- [36:48]
Katie Wu
There's some, some, there's some activity in the Scott Boris pitching market. And I wonder if people saw what happened with Blake Snell and Jordan Montgomery last year. And we're like, hell no. Because it's been surprisingly active and we're seeing just how valuable starting pitching is. Matthew Boyd getting two years, $29 million. I get a lot of questions on why the Cardinals aren't entertaining trade offers for Eric Fetty. And I think it's. Eric fetty is making $7.5 million next year. That is nothing in this market. So of course the Cardinals are going to hang on to that. It makes me wonder if there's now a market for Steven matz, who is 12 million this year. Lefty, you know, coming off three years of injuries, but they've all been different. So I've, I've just enjoyed seeing what the Boris market with kind of the second tier pitchers and of course Blake Snell being in the top tier, what they've gotten and how active they've been because I think it allows us to kind of sum up the starting pitching market and surprise. The prices are once again astronomical. But it's interesting to at least see some sort of movement in some market because we know the position playing market is not going to move until Soto signs.
- [37:55]
Jake Storiale
Yeah, the, the pitching Ponzi scheme this year is going to be wild because you're right like it Steven Matt who I, I know Cardinals fans were looking at as a salary dump of sorts. Like I don't know. I, I could see another team trash to treasure like Yankee fans are considering they want to dump Strowman just cause it's a big number, it's 18 mil. But you know he, he threw his innings last year at a fine era like I'm interested to see especially with the early hunt like Frankie Montas. It's also these front offices think they're really smart that the Mets circled Frankie Montas and said we want to get him, we don't want to wait out this free agency. The Chicago Cubs, they said Matthew Boyd, I want him. So that's, that's where I don't know. And I, you, every team and every fan hopes that their front office is smart enough that hey Montas, it makes sense. Boyd actually pitched incredible last year. He just hasn't put up innings. Montas has had the arm talent that people have been looking to tap into that. I'm so interested to see how the pitching carousel goes between. Okay, if you want Jack Flaherty FORMER Cardinal okay, you might have to pay 90, 100 million or do we want to take a chance on one year of like a Steven Matts and if it clicks and we get you know, even his, what was it, 20, 23 like Steven Matt's 105 innings of 3, 8, 6. Like we can use that and not put the money on our books. I, I do think it's outside of like Soto because that's illegal. But it, it, it's probably the most interesting part of this off season of how our teams going to try to jimmy rig their pitching staff without giving the max dollars for the top free agents.
- [39:55]
Katie Wu
Right. And when you're seeing what these prices look like, it's almost impossible to really augment your rotation unless you have infinity money which you know, some of these organizations do. But a lot of these organizations claim to not and have not ever spent that way. So unless you have a good farm system, you're gonna have to pay for pitching, and you're gonna have to pay a lot for it. And there are some organizations that just will not do that.
- [40:20]
Jake Storiale
And it's like, if I was an organization that bred a bunch of pitching. Seattle, Seattle, Seattle.
- [40:25]
Katie Wu
Oh, maybe the mirrors. Weird.
- [40:26]
Jake Storiale
Cash in those chips. That's none of my business. And, yeah, I mean, you're. You're currently talking to two Yankee fans that are very jealous of what the Dodgers are doing out west because you mentioned unlimited money. And it is crazy how much the TV deal, as you well know and laid out, goes into that stuff. Our guy Trevor Plouffe's twins haven't had a ton of free agency rumors the past couple years, and it's like, God, what are we doing?
- [40:56]
Katie Wu
And they're one of the first teams to say, hey, not only is, like, TV impacting us, we're also going to have to cut payroll because of that. And it was legitimate. I think people kind of looked around because they were the first team to do it. Like, is that really a reason? And it's very much a reason. And it's so unfortunate.
- [41:12]
Jake Storiale
So crazy how the world spins. Katie Wu, what else should the people know that you have coming up?
- [41:19]
Katie Wu
Well, like I said, if the Sun Devils win on Saturday, just electric content coming from Dallas. If not, I don't know. But you know what? I'm not entertaining a world where ASU doesn't win that big game. So they're gonna win, and then I won't have to explain to my editors why I'm in mourning and not working. Just kidding. I will work when I get there. I do. I'm sad that you guys will not be there. I love the Winter meetings. It's like a big. It's like a big high school reunion, but with people you actually like. So that's cool. And, yeah, you'll be missed.
- [41:51]
Jake Storiale
The setup is always imperative. Am I using that word right? Of, like, if. If the hotel bar is in the right place. It's baseball heaven. It's. It's nirvana. I like. I think we remember San Diego, and it was like, literally, the Yankees front office in one corner, the Red Sox front office in one corner. Everyone who was tall was a former player, everyone who was short as a media person, and it was just like, no, I know.
- [42:20]
Katie Wu
Yes. San Diego, best Winter meetings venue by far in Nashville. Probably the worst. So let's See where Dallas ranks. Yeah, I will report back.
- [42:29]
Jake Storiale
Need it. And thank you, Katie Wu. You're. You're kind of John Boy media family now. You kind of weaseled your way in.
- [42:37]
Katie Wu
You're like, don't make me emotional during the holidays.
- [42:40]
Jake Storiale
You're like that neighbor that kind of just shows up and they're all right. I guess they're with us now.
- [42:45]
Katie Wu
Yeah, no, I came in and I like that annoying neighbor. And then you guys realize, like, okay, she's like, she's not that bad. Like, we can tolerate this. And now here we are.
- [42:54]
Jake Storiale
It's gonna be more work to get rid of her at this point, right?
- [42:58]
Katie Wu
You just. You took the easy way. I get it.
- [42:59]
Jake Storiale
No, I knew. I knew. I knew you were in. When you know, there's either half people meet Chris Rose and they're like, that's the oldest person I've ever talked to. Like, get me away from him. The other half of people meet Chris Rose and they're like, chris Rose. Intentional talk. Like, how cool is that? And you're unfortunately one of those people.
- [43:16]
Katie Wu
So I whip an intentional talk head.
- [43:18]
Jake Storiale
Yeah.
- [43:19]
Katie Wu
So it was a big deal for.
- [43:20]
Jake Storiale
Me meeting Chris, Rosie, you and Vinnie Pasquintino. I don't know. Katie Woo, you're the best. Thank you so much, you guys.
- [43:29]
Katie Wu
You rock. I don't know when I'll see you next, but I will. I will have an adult beverage for you at the Dallas Winter meetings hotel bar.
- [43:37]
Jake Storiale
Might. I'm. I'm finna book a flight right now. I'm not going do it. I'm not.
- [43:41]
Katie Wu
Do it. You already, like, impulsively bought a tv. Just buy a flight. Oh, don't got em.
- [43:45]
Jake Storiale
Don't bring that up. My living room is ruined. And the show waking Jenkins Production, Patrick Productions, John Boy Media and Workhouse Media.