Cowboy vs. Boss Babes

Summary

The Dating Detectives Podcast: "Cowboy vs. Boss Babes" Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dating Detectives
• Host/Author: Dear Media (Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz & Hanna Anderson)
• Episode: Cowboy vs. Boss Babes
• Release Date: April 14, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Cowboy vs. Boss Babes," hosts Mackenzie Fultz, a professional Private Investigator, and comedian Hanna Anderson delve into the harrowing real-life tale shared by Maya, a successful and independent woman navigating the treacherous waters of modern dating. The episode aims to shed light on the manipulative behaviors of con artists in the dating scene, particularly those who exploit emotional and financial vulnerabilities.

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Maya’s Story: From Meeting to Manipulation

Meeting the Cowboy

Maya, a 44-year-old construction industry leader with over two decades of experience, recounts how she met Chris—a charismatic man who portrayed himself as a hardworking ranch owner and part-time actor—through TikTok during the COVID-19 pandemic. Intrigued by his "thirst traps," Maya initiated contact, finding common ground in their shared love for horses and outdoor activities.

[06:39] Maya: "He seemed really cool, charming, normal guy."

Early Red Flags

As their relationship progressed, Maya began noticing discrepancies in Chris’s stories, particularly regarding his living situation and financial status. Despite claiming ownership of a ranch, Chris was leasing an apartment due to financial strains from an ongoing divorce.

[12:58] Maya: "He never even pulled his wallet out, not one time."

Maya initially dismissed these red flags, attributing Chris's financial struggles to legitimate issues. However, instances such as Chris’s reluctance to own up to his financial difficulties and continuous requests for financial assistance slowly began to raise alarms.

[17:50] Maya: "He has this way about him where he doesn't ask for things, but he starts saying how he doesn't have enough money for rent or..."

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Manipulative Tactics and Financial Abuse

Love Bombing and Financial Dependence

Chris employed the tactic of "love bombing," excessively showering Maya with attention and affection to create emotional dependency. This manipulation made it difficult for Maya to recognize his controlling behavior initially.

[09:08] Maya: "We had some trauma in common... So having that in common with him, it really had me put my guard down."

As their relationship deepened, Maya found herself financially supporting Chris, covering expenses like rent, bills, and even assisting with his career endeavors by managing his social media accounts.

[16:53] Maya: "So I was trying to be sympathetic and not emasculate him. That was my big concern."

Isolation and Control

Chris began isolating Maya from her support systems. He manipulated situations to make Maya financially dependent and emotionally inseparable from him, creating a scenario where leaving the relationship seemed daunting and impossible.

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Discovering the Truth and Seeking Support

Uncovering Betrayals

Maya’s investigative instincts kicked in when she noticed familiar names and suspicious comments on Chris’s social media profiles. Her suspicions were confirmed when she discovered multiple infidelities and financial exploitations orchestrated by Chris, including over $100,000 siphoned from various individuals.

[61:12] Maya: "So he was getting money from like five different people, including the actress girl, and I was mortified when I found all of this out."

Building a Support Network

In her darkest moments, Maya found solace in connecting with other women who had fallen victim to Chris. She formed a tight-knit support system with Riley and Chris’s ex-wife, collectively working to expose Chris’s manipulative schemes and assist other potential victims.

[83:44] Maya: "I have met and become friends with Riley, and I realize that we're our own little coven almost, and we're healing each other."

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Escaping the Abusive Relationship

Strategizing the Exit

Faced with the reality of Chris’s deceit and abuse, Maya meticulously planned her escape. She secured her financial independence by opening new bank accounts, removing Chris’s access, and relocating for her health and safety.

[66:59] Maya: "I had to get out of this mode. But I still have to be careful with him because he's got access to all of my property."

Final Confrontation and Liberation

Maya confronted Chris with irrefutable evidence of his betrayals, leading to a final breakup. Despite Chris’s attempts to manipulate and gaslight her, Maya successfully disentangled herself from the toxic relationship, focusing on her recovery from breast cancer and rebuilding her life.

[98:33] Maya: "I don't care if he shows up on my doorstep and does something horrible to me. I am going to speak up on this and I am going to protect other women."

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Hosts’ Insights and Discussions

Identifying Red Flags

Mackenzie and Hanna emphasize the importance of recognizing subtle red flags such as inconsistent stories, financial dependency, and manipulative tactics like "dry begging" and "love bombing."

[18:36] Hanna: "I know, bring the highlighter out."

Encouraging Support Systems

The hosts highlight the critical role of support systems in escaping abusive relationships, underscoring Maya’s journey as a testament to the strength found in solidarity among women.

[112:16] Mackenzie: "Thank you so much for sharing your story and for being willing to share it, even though it comes up all the time."

Promoting Awareness and Prevention

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to remain vigilant in their dating lives, encouraging them to share their stories and support each other through platforms like Dating Detectives’ Patreon and community forums.

[120:27] Mackenzie: "You have no idea until you're in it."

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Key Takeaways

1. Recognize Manipulative Behaviors: Be aware of excessive affection and inconsistent stories as potential red flags.
2. Maintain Financial Independence: Avoid becoming financially dependent on a partner to prevent exploitation.
3. Build a Support Network: Establish connections with trusted individuals who can provide support and perspective.
4. Empower Through Knowledge: Understanding terms like "dry begging" and "love bombing" can aid in identifying abusive patterns.
5. Seek Professional Help: Don’t hesitate to reach out to professionals or support groups when facing abusive relationships.

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Notable Quotes

• Maya: "It's hard to find a girl's girl. Like, it's hard to find a girl who's like, you know what? Well, I'm a ladies girl." [01:18]
• Hanna: "You don't have to tell me what kind. I just want to know if there was, like, more than texting." [10:05]
• Maya: "He's getting money from like five different people, including the actress girl, and I was mortified when I found all of this out." [74:03]
• Hanna: "Sometimes it's nice to have a palate cleanser to remind you that love and romance is real." [25:00]
• Maya: "I don't care if he shows up on my doorstep and does something horrible to me. I am going to speak up on this and I am going to protect other women." [98:33]

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Conclusion

In "Cowboy vs. Boss Babes," The Dating Detectives podcast offers a powerful narrative of Maya's struggle and ultimate triumph over a manipulative and abusive relationship. The episode serves as both a warning and a source of hope, demonstrating the importance of self-awareness, financial autonomy, and strong support networks in combating relationship abuse. Through Maya’s courageous story, listeners are encouraged to stay vigilant and support one another in their dating journeys.

Transcript

[Hannah]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-777, 233 for support.

[Mackenzie]

Hello, welcome to Monday Dating Detectives. Monday.

[Hannah]

Hello, we're the Dating Detectives. Nice to meet you. We're recording this after hearing a bonkers story which you are now about to hear. So we're a little shook.

[Mackenzie]

Buckle up, Chuck. Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a doozy. I don't understand how. I don't even understand. I hate, Like, I love getting these stories because I love that people have a platform to share them, but I hate getting them also because it's like, no, no.

[Hannah]

Well, you're going to love Maya. This is also a girl's girl story, so get excited for that. I love that there is some joy among the dog.

[Mackenzie]

It's hard to find a girl's girl. Like, it's hard to find a girl who's like, you know what? Well, I'm a ladies girl. Like, I'm. We're friends, you know, it's really, really hard to find them.

[Hannah]

And once you find them, keep them. Hey, that reminds me. You should join our Patreon because it's pretty much all girls. Girls or other people who maybe aren't girls, but are still. They get it. You know, we've got. I've seen a few of you be like, hey, I'm not a girl, and I'm here. And we're like, we love you. We're also doing another book for book club, which meets on Zoom Through Patreon. It's called the Perfect Marriage by Geneva Rose. It is a thriller mystery. A lot of you said you finished it in, like, half an hour, because that fast of a page turner, I definitely couldn't put it down. We're not going to meet. I think Molly. Oh, we'll talk about this after We're. We'll tell you when we're meeting soon.

[Maya]

We'll.

[Hannah]

We'll talk scheduling before we get off mackenzie. Guys, sorry, you're hearing the behind the scenes admin, but we will tell you when that's going to be, but you'll have time to get it and read it. And what other notes or things or announcements do we have? I forgot a huge thing that I want to add.

[Mackenzie]

What is it?

[Hannah]

I started my self defense workshop last weekend.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yes.

[Hannah]

And I need to shout out the sleuthies. There were a few of you that came out and I loved. I mean, Lorraine, Devin, Christine. I shouldn't have started saying names, actually, because now I'm going to be like, if I miss people, I'm going to feel bad. Morgan feels so bad. That was stupid. But also it's okay because a lot of you were like, I want to come back. You brought friends. And can I just say, y'all? So I started this because of you. Like, this podcast made me want to take self defense. Not just to learn, but also to just feel more empowered in general.

[Mackenzie]

In yourself. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And I met a girl at a party who teaches it. So I asked her if she wanted to do this with me because I was like, let's just do it ourselves in a park. And all the moves she was doing at first looked so easy. And I was like, is this really that, like, helpful? She makes it look easy. It was so valuable. If you don't live in la, find self defense because you'll make friends. First of all, like, we all were vibing and now I'm so excited to do it again because a lot of people wanted to come back. So I want to go.

[Maya]

I know.

[Mackenzie]

I want to go Sabad.

[Hannah]

It's good. I'm making it a little well oiled machine so that it's something that's easy to repeat. But the next one is.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you for doing that, Hannah. I think that is so cool of you. Thank you.

[Hannah]

You know, I felt like I had this opportunity thanks to Dating Detectives now. And I was like, before I wouldn't have thought of this, so I might as well as well use it.

[Mackenzie]

It's really cool. You're so cool. May 18th. Yeah.

[Hannah]

If you want to sign up, the website is don't get killed club.com.

[Mackenzie]

That'S like so easy to remember. Don't get killedclub.com is it? Are we gonna put that in the show notes?

[Hannah]

We should. Let's do it.

[Mackenzie]

We should put it. Yeah, we should put it in the show notes for sure.

[Hannah]

But it's in la. I wish I could do it everywhere, but maybe someday we'll go on a top podcast tour and in every city we'll do a little class together. That's my dream.

[Mackenzie]

That would be so fun.

[Hannah]

Wouldn't that be fun?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Maya]

That's all.

[Hannah]

I just want to say thank you.

[Mackenzie]

To those who said that. So our guest today has, like we said, a doozy of a story. Should we let her take it away?

[Hannah]

I think so. Hi, welcome.

[Mackenzie]

Maya is here to tell her story and I'm dying to.

[Maya]

Like, we're. We're.

[Mackenzie]

I'm not excited. I'm gonna stop saying I'm excited. Cause I'm not excited. Because if you're here, I'm probably not excited, but. Maya, take it away. Start from the top, girl.

[Maya]

Hello, my name is Maya and I have a story, or not even a story. An experience stranger than fiction. And thought I would share it so that other ladies can either take solace in knowing that it happens to the best of us and maybe avoid or learn or be strong enough to get out of a situation.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you so much for sharing.

[Hannah]

You're in the right place.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, you're in the right place. Let's hear it, girl. I'm scared.

[Maya]

Okay, so back in 2021, I was not really looking. I was divorced, no kids.

[Chris]

I'm 44. At the time, I got into an industry that is exclusively run by men and is a boys club. And by this time in my life, I've been running construction for 22 years and in charge of hundreds of men every day and millions of dollars. And I'm at the peak of my career and I'm strong and independent and loving my life.

[Maya]

The whole Covid thing happened and people weren't getting out and socializing. And I discovered TikTok and I've heard of it. It passes just that little app, but just was killing time and started scrolling.

[Chris]

TikTok just because I had nothing else.

[Maya]

Better to do other than work. And at the time, thirst traps were getting more and more popular and I was scrolling and saw this handsome cowboy on it doing a thirst trap.

[Hannah]

And will you. Will you describe this thirst trap just in case anyone doesn't know what you mean by such a thing?

[Maya]

Okay, so it's like a little 30 second or minute long little snippet posted on Tick Tock with music. And they do a shot of like taking their shirt off or showing their butt.

[Mackenzie]

Hello, cowboy.

[Maya]

He was hot and sweaty and threw a saddle over his shoulder. And like, I was. It was eye catching. I was. I think I was jogging on the treadmill time and dropped my phone, just about fell on my face.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Maya]

I liked the TikTok and forgot about it and kept scrolling. And then a couple of weeks later, I got this message and I'm like, what that's that guy. And I looked at his account and I was still kind of learning the app and I was like, no way, that's fake. There's like this guy wouldn't message me because I didn't really post videos at the time.

[Hannah]

Did you have a photo or.

[Maya]

I had a couple of short videos with my dog.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

And a profile picture. So I mean, not, not much to go off of and certainly not thirst trapping. And I'm like, why is this guy talking to me? And we messaged back and forth a couple of times and I discovered no, it's actually him. And wow, we have some stuff in common. I've been riding horses the majority of my life and here this guy owns a ranch and has a bunch of horses. And he seemed really cool, charming, normal guy.

[Chris]

And I had nothing else better to.

[Hannah]

Do and like we just flattering.

[Maya]

I'd be like, oh my gosh, wow, this hot guy. And I did what any girl would do and I scrolled through his videos and saw lots and lots of comments from girls. And some of them sounded like they were kind of familiar, like actually knew him. And some of them just looked like they were random.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

Or thirsty comments.

[Hannah]

Was he getting a lot of views on these videos or have a large following? Okay, so he was like a influencer.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maya]

He wasn't very technically inclined, so I.

[Hannah]

He knew how to take his shirt off. Yeah, he knew how to take his.

[Maya]

Shirt off and look like a sweaty cowboy. But he just seemed like, you know, a nice guy. And then he is a part time actor too.

[Hannah]

And I'm like, okay, that explains Hannah's like, I know, I know. I was like, oh, now I get why he's taking his shirt off. And hey, do what you gotta do to get in this business.

[Maya]

He has his ranch, he's a part time act, and he does solar panel sales. So he's got some, you know, a few irons in the fire. Seems like he kind of had his life together. And we exchanged phone numbers after a.

[Chris]

Few weeks and we started talking on.

[Maya]

The phone and it seemed like he just wanted to talk all day long and he would call me and it was kind of flattering. It was kind of overwhelming because I wasn't used to that much attention. I was not familiar with the love bombing.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

But I, I learned. But he got me used to it and we ended up talking on the phone a lot and then that progressed. Wait, I have a.

[Hannah]

A few questions in here. Are you exchanging photos of each other at all? I'm not. You don't have to tell me what kind. I just want to know if there was, like, more than texting.

[Maya]

Yeah, I mean, it was. It was getting flirty, and we were talking about having a visit. He was going to come visit me, and there. There were definitely some photos exchanged, and he was very nice to look at, and I didn't mind.

[Hannah]

And you're single and Covid. It's like, sure, yeah.

[Maya]

And so, like, I'm like, wow. I'm starting to feel pretty good about myself. I'm enjoying the attention.

[Chris]

We have a lot in common.

[Maya]

And it progressed, and we started FaceTiming, like.

[Hannah]

Okay, that was my next question. And that's a good. That's a good sign. Okay. So we're not getting catfished.

[Maya]

Yeah. So he's legitimate in that he is who he says he is. But I. I noticed that when we were FaceTiming, he was in an apartment and not a big, glorious ranch. But then he explains that he's been through a divorce and money's kind of tight, and he's leasing out his ranch property, and he's living in an apartment now because it's cheaper. So anyhow, we're starting to really like each other, and I'm realizing he's just trying to get through his. I'm finding out now his divorce isn't quite final yet, and he's got legal fees and he's got kid stuff and all that. Kid stuff in that, like, he's got child support and all of that.

[Hannah]

So he does have. He has kids.

[Maya]

I did notice that he never had his kids, and I thought that was kind of odd. That was kind of a red flag to me, but I didn't certainly.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maya]

Yeah. I didn't want to, like, be too judgy or push too much because I didn't know what the situation was. But he had originally told me that he was divorced, and then it came out. He slowly start with, like, slip truth details in there. And so then he finally decides to come out to visit me in Colorado, and he's talking about how he's meeting with investors for his movie stuff and producers and things, but money was super tight. So when he did come out and visit, it happened to be. There was a big fair going on, so that would be a fun, outdoorsy thing to do. But the very first time he came to visit me, I paid for everything.

[Mackenzie]

And did he offer at all? Or were you. Did you offer? Or was that just how it turned out?

[Maya]

He never even pulled his wallet out, not one time.

[Mackenzie]

Oh. So it Was kind of like his expectations. Oh, lo. Okay.

[Maya]

Well, because he. He had been painting the picture that he was really struggling and you wanted to help him.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

So then I. I didn't want to come off like I was, you know, materialistic.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, of course.

[Hannah]

I get that you could play with, like. Oh, well, he came to visit me, so I'm hosting. I could see you wrapping your head around that.

[Maya]

Right.

[Chris]

And I knew he didn't have a lot of money, but he made me feel special and like I was worth investing the time in. He would do little things, like, now he's not a great singer, but he can carry a tune fairly well. And he would do things like sing a song along with the radio and record himself and he would send it to me or like the tiktoks that he was making, he started picking songs that I liked in particular, but it was just little things like that that nobody else had ever done for me. And one of the things I think that he really got me on is many years ago, I lived in another state out in the country, on 114 acres by myself. And a very scary event where I had a home invasion. And had it not been for my dog, my dog is the reason that I survived that encounter. And so I obviously have some trauma attached to that. And he was telling me once that he used to be a firefighter and a paramedic emt, and he talked about why he stopped being an emt, that he had a building collapse on him and one of the people that was on his team was killed and he almost didn't survive himself. So he had some trauma related to that. And so we. We had that in common. We had that understanding of the cycle of PTSD and those things. So having that in common with him, it really had me put my guard down. And at this point, I'd been divorced for, oh, my gosh, 12 years at that point, maybe 13 years. And I stopped trying to find relationships. And when he and I met, like, of. Of the millions of people on TikTok, what are the odds of him passing over my FYP and me seeing his TikTok? And then of the. I don't remember how many people. He had, like over 50,000 people following his account. What are the chances of him noticing a. Like that I did on his account? And then from there, what are the chances of him actually reaching out to me? And then from there, what are the chances and what are the odds if it's not meant to be, if the stars haven't aligned why would all of these things have fallen in place? And I felt like finally the stars had aligned in my life and I was finally meeting the person that was meant to be there all along. So the money thing, I just decided to be okay with. I was okay with paying for things and helping him out.

[Maya]

So I was trying to be sympathetic and not emasculate him. That was my big concern. I can remember the couple of times we went out to dinner, I actually handed him my credit card so that he could look like he was paying.

[Hannah]

Oh, I've done that.

[Maya]

Yeah. So I was. I was trying to. Whatever.

[Hannah]

It's an interesting. Yeah, because it's like.

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I don't know. It's funny how our instinct is to be so, like, maternal towards.

[Mackenzie]

Maternal. Yes, That's a good word. Maternal.

[Hannah]

When it's like, would they do that for us?

[Maya]

That was very much the case. Like, I felt so bad for him because now by now he's telling me he's got two ex wives, one biological daughter, two step kids, and the moms, both of them were refusing to let him see the kids and that he's paying for child support and all this. And spousal support.

[Mackenzie]

No, he's saying he wants to see.

[Hannah]

The kids and his exes are crazy, right?

[Maya]

Yeah. And they. Yeah, they're crazy. And isn't that always the case? Right. And. Yep. And they're turning the kids against him and blah, blah. And he has this way about him where he doesn't ask for things, but he starts saying how he doesn't have enough money for rent or.

[Mackenzie]

And then hopes that you'll offer. He's betting on your offer.

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Because. Why?

[Maya]

Well, there. There's actually a term for that called dry begging that I learned about.

[Mackenzie]

What's called dry begging?

[Maya]

Yeah, it's a narcissistic term.

[Mackenzie]

I love dry begging. Let's add that to our glossary.

[Hannah]

I know. Highlight. Bring the highlighter out.

[Maya]

Yeah. So that is where they. They hint around. They don't come out and ask you for stuff, but they talk about the thing that they.

[Mackenzie]

I know so many people who do that.

[Maya]

Yeah, it's very common.

[Hannah]

I don't know if you listened. We had a recent episode called Resort Romance, and this exact thing happened.

[Maya]

Yep. Yep.

[Mackenzie]

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[Hannah]

I feel like prebiotic sodas are all the rage and if you haven't gotten into it, you should try Simply. Simply has launched a new prebiotic soda, Simply Pop, the new Juicy soda. There are five flavors. You got pineapple, mango, lime, strawberry, citrus punch and fruit punch. But it's made with real fruit juice. Simply Pop supports gut health with 6 grams of prebiotic fiber. But there's no added sugar and it's sweetened with juices. Monk Fruit extract.

[Maya]

Ooh.

[Hannah]

It supports immune health with zinc and vitamin C and the flavor pops. Am I right? But for real, it's actually really good. I've tried it. It's a new fruit forward. Bevy Mackenzie likes to call sodas her spicy water. And this is like a sweet, spicy water.

[Maya]

It's.

[Hannah]

But it's good for your gut. I'm obsessed with the pineapple mango flavor. That's the one I keep going to. But I also have tried lime and that was really nice. It feels like you're drinking something fun, but not like you're decaying your teeth with sugar. You know what I mean? Sometimes when I drink soda, I'm like, this is delicious, but man, I think my teeth are going to fall out. Worth it. Maybe. But now I don't have to make that choice because I have Simply Pop. So you should try it. Go to cokeurl.com simply pop to find out where you can try Simply Pop. Find Simply Pop and any of its five juicy flavors by visiting us online at cokeurl.com simply pop that's C-O-K-E U R L.com S I M P L-Y-P O P.

[Maya]

By now we're a full blown couple. And now he's with his sales job. He's got another trip that he's coming out to Colorado. It's a golf trip with his bosses. And I thought, oh, how convenient. You're coming right to my town. We can see together. You can stay with me. And so it was like three or four weeks later he came out to see me again while he came out for his trip. And then when he wasn't doing his golfing or whatever, he was with you, you know, with me, which was great. It was like basically a free trip. So when he came out on his trip, he was being rewarded for meeting sales goals or exceeding him or whatever. And that's what that trip was about. When he got back, he called me frantically that afternoon that he had been called into the office and they fired him. This is days before his rent is due.

[Hannah]

Oh, and you don't know why he got fired?

[Maya]

Okay, I don't know why he got fired. And so of course he's telling me he doesn't have money to make the rent and he's all worried and stressed out and he doesn't know what he's gonna do. So of course, what do I do? I can't get to the bank fast enough to wire him money for rent so that he can get by thinking that surely in 30 days he can find another job.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And then he'll be fine.

[Maya]

Right.

[Mackenzie]

How long had y'all been together at that point?

[Maya]

A month.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, so this is a month fast.

[Hannah]

But you said he loved bombed, so you were yeah.

[Maya]

Oh, he loved bombing. And I'd never experienced anything like that before, so I didn't.

[Mackenzie]

You felt amazing.

[Maya]

Oh, I. I was on the top. I was like, wow. I finally met my person and he's, you know, everything I've ever wanted. Except for that. Oh, no.

[Hannah]

Did he say he would pay you back? Okay.

[Maya]

He. And he didn't ask me for the money.

[Hannah]

Oh, right.

[Maya]

He was very careful.

[Mackenzie]

He dry bagged it.

[Maya]

Yes, he did. He dry bed. So I gave him the money.

[Hannah]

And it's easy to go through these stories and highlight all the red flags, but I think people sometimes forget that part of why these relationships work in these shitty dogfishes way is because they are good at latching you in and being amazing.

[Maya]

And he was, or is probably still very charming. And it. It never seemed like he was asking me for things. It was always your idea, some unforeseen catastrophic event that he was victimized and.

[Chris]

It just would happen.

[Maya]

So that brings me to my next point. I had already booked a trip to go visit him. And of course, me being a horse girl, I wanted to see the horses. Well, magically, I think it was three or four days before I went to go visit him. He tells me that he just can't afford the horses anymore and he's got to sell them. And I'm like, okay, that makes sense because you're. You're broke and. Or I. I have horses. I ride horses. They are very expensive. And so he says that he found one person to come by all of his horses. And I was like, great, that's going to get you some cash on hand and you'll have less liability. That's great. And he goes, no, I have to give all the money to my ex wife because that's part of our divorce settlement. I'm like, okay, that's weird.

[Mackenzie]

That sucks.

[Maya]

Yeah. And I'm like, whatever. And he goes, but we can still go see the horses if you want, but they're not mine anymore. And I'm like, okay, whatever. So I go out to visit him, and we go out there and as soon as we get there, he starts pulling out a wheelbarrow and what we call an apple picker. And he starts cleaning the stalls.

[Chris]

And I'm like, what are you doing?

[Hannah]

Why are you doing that?

[Maya]

And he's like, oh, well, I do this part time to earn a little extra cash now since I don't have the horses. And the lady who actually owned the barn came out and handed him cash.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Maya]

And then she introduces herself to me and we start talking and she finds out I'm a horse person too. And then I train horses. And she's like, oh, you've got to come work for me. This is so great. And I'm like, oh, no, I don't live here. And then she spills that he'd been cleaning stalls for her for four or.

[Hannah]

Five years and he forgot to give her her script.

[Maya]

So he gets fully outed that he never had the horses and that he'd been cleaning stalls and.

[Hannah]

What did you, what did you say?

[Maya]

I. And it's so not like me. I did not question him because I. I was like, oh, how embarrassing. I would be mortified if I got busted with such epic lies. And he's really down on his luck right now. So I didn't ask, I didn't mention it. It just was the unspoken elephant in the room. And I, you know, I was there on vacation for a couple of days and I just wanted to enjoy my time there and I didn't want to embarrass him. And, you know, every time we talk, I've gone back home now and. And we're back to phone calls and.

[Hannah]

But the trip other than that was like romance.

[Maya]

Yeah, it was romance and fun. But of course, you know, he fell on all this hard time. So I paid for everything again, of course.

[Hannah]

Right, right, right.

[Maya]

And I'm starting to question, gosh, is he ever going to get back on his feet? I hope he gets a job.

[Chris]

And I was electronically applying for stuff for him, but magically he just could not land an interview.

[Maya]

But I wanted to believe that. Here's a guy who had a couple of jobs and now has one part time job. And I'm starting to get a little worried, but hoping that he'll get his stuff together. So I discover he's not very technically inclined, which I think I mentioned before. And so I'm like, okay, let me help you. Let me build a resume for you. Let me help you with your whole acting thing where they have to do like auditions. They home record auditions now.

[Hannah]

Almost 100%. After Covid, people were doing video. How did he. I'm so interested how he had a TikTok career.

[Maya]

I.

[Mackenzie]

Because he did thirst traps, all he.

[Hannah]

Had to do is hit record.

[Maya]

I don't really know because he, he told me that his manager told him he should do a thirst trap. And so he did a couple and his account blew up like overnight.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Maya]

And he had over 300,000 likes and 40,000 followers, like instantly. But I told him I was like, hey, there's a way to monetize that. He's like, yeah, I don't know how to do it. And I'm like, that's fine, I can help you. And by this time he'd given me passwords to his acting portal so I can do that stuff for him. And I had built a link tree for him for promoting his acting stuff.

[Hannah]

Yeah, totally. This is so helpful of you.

[Maya]

Right, so. And I'm holding down a pretty demanding full time job at this point, but I, I'm finding time to help him. And he's very weird that the only passwords he won't give me are for TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.

[Mackenzie]

The only ones. Those are the most important ones.

[Maya]

Right. But I have email, I have everything else. And I, I started noticing, I think I'd mentioned earlier that there were a couple of people commenting on stuff. It looked a little bit familiar, like.

[Hannah]

They actually knew him and they were like flirty.

[Maya]

Yeah. Like calling him babe and honey and darlin and. Okay. In the south, sometimes people speak a little bit more familiar like that.

[Hannah]

Sure.

[Maya]

It was more than.

[Hannah]

Then you know when you, you know it when you see it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, of course.

[Maya]

Flag waving in my face that I put blinders on.

[Hannah]

Oh, we've all.

[Maya]

Then I noticed those same exact girls are commenting on his Facebook and his Instagram. And then I start watching, like, who's commenting? I'm checking stuff, I'm like, this is strange. And one girl said, I can't wait to see you this weekend.

[Mackenzie]

Wait, were you guys had. You guys had the talk of like being like stablistic?

[Maya]

Yeah. Like after he came to visit me the very first time. That was it. He locked me down. We were exclusive.

[Mackenzie]

And so you guys had a mutual understanding that this is an exclusive relationship.

[Hannah]

And he's boyfriend, girlfriend defined.

[Maya]

Yeah, he pushed that narrative for sure. Okay.

[Hannah]

I'm sure. Did he say he loved you?

[Maya]

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. It was, it was I love you and I.

[Mackenzie]

Someone pay my bills. I'm gonna say I love you too.

[Maya]

Right. He better love me. It's been several months now. I'm still helping him with his rent. And now I'm starting to like, kind of question because I'm seeing routinely the same girls making familiar comments. I'm starting to see him get tagged in photos on Instagram and you don't always necessarily see that when somebody else tags you on Instagram. On Facebook, it's pretty obvious. On Instagram you have to actually look at tagged photos. Right. It's a different tab yes.

[Mackenzie]

Okay. Yes.

[Hannah]

So you had to do a little sleuthing, which. Yeah, any. Anyone would.

[Maya]

Exactly. So now my investigative girl brain is starting to kick in a little bit. And now we've decided that we're going to go to Austin for Christmas to visit my family.

[Hannah]

Wait, I have. I need a few details.

[Maya]

Okay. What?

[Hannah]

He's tagged in some photos. What's going on in the photos? Is he just partying? Is he hanging with the girl one on one?

[Maya]

Yes. Like arms around each other. Could be like two friends posed together. Could be.

[Mackenzie]

So benefit of the doubt situation.

[Maya]

Right.

[Hannah]

It's not like love my girlfriend, it's just.

[Maya]

Right.

[Hannah]

Friendly looking, but could be go going either.

[Maya]

And he never comments back on anyone's comments or posts, including mine. Oh, rude.

[Hannah]

Don't like that.

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Personally, but to each their own.

[Maya]

He just loved everyone's comments and he never replied. And he was very adamant about we could not share any photos together on social media because he has a fan base because he's an actor.

[Hannah]

Mm, I've heard that too. And this is a thing that people are told in the industry, so where it's like, you have to leave that ability for your fans to project onto you. But also, is he even like a famous actor? Anyway?

[Maya]

Yeah, no, anyway, but he, he's involved in like independent films and I had seen some of the stuff that he had done and.

[Hannah]

Short film type.

[Maya]

Yeah, a lot of short films and hobby films. Like amateurs doing stuff. Terrible acting, terrible costuming.

[Hannah]

Like, like all of my films from college, it sounds like.

[Maya]

But I notice that there's this one actress in his acting group and she's a very pretty girl that routinely I see him in pictures with named Hayley and she continues to comment a lot on his stuff. And he says that, oh, we're just friends. We would never mix the personal and business.

[Chris]

We're just friends.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Wait, so does that mean you've asked him about this? Because I was gonna ask you if there was someone keeping you. Cause I think it's very common to just be like, I don't wanna be dramatic. I don't wanna seem like I'm not chill.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah, Jealous.

[Maya]

But it started out that way, but then I just, I couldn't let go of it. I had this feeling. And then in January 2022, I get a message from an anonymous TikTok.

[Hannah]

Oh, no.

[Maya]

Saying Chris is dating this actress. And it's just before he's supposed to come out and visit me again. And I screenshot it and I sent it to him and I lose it on him. And he supposedly, at the time he's meeting with an investor, I didn't care. I called him like, four, five, six times. I was furious. So he finally excuses himself from his, quote, meeting, and he answers the phone, and I let him have it and tell him, we're done. I'm done. You're done. That's it. Take your actress and do your thing. She can pay your bill.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maya]

So he starts bawling. And this man is 6 foot 1, 245 pounds of solid muscle. And he's on FaceTime because he FaceTimed me, because he wants me to see that he's bawling.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

How did you feel?

[Maya]

I was so angry, and then I was just a little bit grossed out and I want blood. I'm so angry. I'm, like, shaking. Well, he somehow, with all of his tears and slobber and snot and all of that, he facetimes me all the way back home. And he was like, four hours from home. And I notice because he's given me his email login stuff, I'm getting notifications your trip to this place, your trip to that place. And it had to do with Google Maps or something. I don't know. Okay, yes.

[Hannah]

Google Maps sometimes sends you updates of, like, you went here, right? And you're like, thanks.

[Maya]

It's telling me that he's had a trip somewhere completely different than he was supposed to be. And I'm like, this isn't adding up. So now, I don't know at this time if. If it was more of a. I was angry and I. I felt like, well, now he's financially reliant on me, so he better straighten up or I'll.

[Mackenzie]

Cut his ass off.

[Maya]

Right? So I give him a list of demands and give him one more chance.

[Hannah]

Are you the type that wanted to know all the details? Like, did you cheat? What happened? You know what I mean? Or were you like, let's move on?

[Maya]

It was a let's move on sort of deal. It was a. I don't want to see another comment from these people. I don't want it like, this is it. Like, you.

[Mackenzie]

So those are your demands. Like, you gotta. This gotta stop.

[Maya]

Yeah. Like, now it better stop.

[Mackenzie]

Okay?

[Maya]

And I told him, you better block these people. But now I'm at the point where I just want to prove to him that he needs me.

[Hannah]

I know I always say that I'm the romantic. I'm like, in an extra romantic era right now when I tell you I am flying through the romance audiobooks. And the cornier the better. I just read one with like an Irish man. He's really grumpy. But oh, of course, enemies to lovers. My favorite thing. Thank goodness for Dipsy, especially after you hear stories like this one on dating detectives. Sometimes it's nice to have a palate cleanser to remind you that love and romance is real. And Dipsea is a female founded app for spicy audiobooks and more. It's created by women for the female gaze, but there's really something for everybody. Like whatever you're into or whatever you think you might be into, you can look into it and explore it. Maybe you'll love it, maybe you won't, but I think it's important to ask those questions. Explore. And this app makes it really fun and safe to do. There's over a thousand spicy audiobooks and they're all made by professional writers and narrators that are actually really good and hot and not cringy. Like I said, any accent you like, just go for it. That also extends to fantasy. If you want a fairy, a God, a vampire, they've got it all. You'll find a character for you on Dipsea and it's really easy to explore. Like I said, you can search truly anything genre. If you want two women, two men, three men, a whole bunch, just one whatever, go look for it. No shame, because sexual health is wellness and we love that here. And we also think that if you know what you like, it's a lot easier to find a healthy relationship out in the world. So this is a way to do that. Also, you'll never get bored because they release new chapters and new stories every week. Right now, listeners of this show can get an extended 30 day free trial. Just go to dipseastories.com TDD to start your free trial. That's D I P s e a stories.com TDD For 30 days of full access for free, visit dipseastories.com TDD MacKenzie, do you know what makes me very.

[Mackenzie]

Mad when there's not a kissing scene at the end?

[Hannah]

That part. But this is like, I'm glad we're doing an ad for this because so many people deal with financial abuse. Oh yes, and I was thinking about it because it's not fair and people get left high and dry. And whether it's just taking money or.

[Mackenzie]

Not, a lot of credit can get ruined. Some people take advantage of their credit. Like they take out loans for them.

[Hannah]

I know this episode deals with a lot, but there's some financial abuse there and getting your credit back is really difficult. And if we can find ways to offer stuff that will help you if you've been through one of these scenarios, like that's our dream. So partnering with AVA is really, really kind of special.

[Mackenzie]

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[Maya]

Wow.

[Mackenzie]

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[Maya]

So he straightens up and a couple months go by, we're visiting each other back and forth. I'm still paying for everything.

[Mackenzie]

Are things progressing in your relationship? Like, do you feel good with him now?

[Hannah]

Things are good, yeah.

[Chris]

So we had been dating for approximately a year and we were getting closer and naturally I wanted the relationship to progress and he seemingly did too. And so we started talking about me relocating. But we were talking marriage and we were talking our life and our future together. And that it would take about a year in the apartment and then his lease would be up by then. I would feel comfortable to buy a house out there. And we had this whole beautiful life planned. And. And once we made the decision to move in together, I started looking for a job closer to him. And I Found one pretty quickly that was almost perfect. It would just require me to go back and forth for a year. And it was literally the perfect opportunity for me to go and immediately be where I wanted to be. I just had to for a year, work like three hours away from where we were living. And they would pay for my living expenses. So it was no extra cost. It was just the inconvenience of being three hours away. But it was way closer than what I was. And so we decided I would do my weeks three hours away and then come home to our shared apartment on the weekend. And then once the year was over, we would buy together there. And our relationship had gotten very serious at that time, so we were planning very much a future together. And he even had expressed that if I was open to it, he would like to look into having a child together. And that was something that I had kind of written off because I was getting older. So he had talked marriage and we had talked having a child. And so I was very excited that the doors I had closed in my life suddenly were unlocked to be opened if I wanted to consider it. And so I was very excited about relocating and being closer. And I had been so career focused for so many years, I kind of put living my life on the back burner. And now suddenly, the stars align. The perfect man for me has arrived. He's just having this struggle right now, but who hasn't struggled at some point in their life, right? And, you know, we get back up and dust ourselves off. But now he's got me as support. So we're going to take over the world. We're going to have the dream life. And he very much painted that picture that all the things that I. I thought weren't possible were suddenly possible in my life. And I was really excited about it.

[Maya]

Yeah. And he made every effort after I blew up at him to call me even more than he was already calling me.

[Mackenzie]

So, like, making more of an effort kind of.

[Maya]

Right. Facetiming even more. And now he's. He stopped liking the comments. He wasn't deleting them or blocking anyone, but he stopped liking the comments from people.

[Hannah]

So where was your trust level with him at the beginning and then at this point and then as you.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question.

[Maya]

Like, he lost all of my trust. And then he started talking about marriage and he started talking about wanting me to live there with him. And like, if he did that soften.

[Mackenzie]

Your heart a little bit, right?

[Maya]

It did. And then.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maya]

And I was like, well, if I'm physically there.

[Mackenzie]

Things will be different.

[Hannah]

He'll grow up.

[Maya]

Yeah. He can't cheat if I'm there.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Maya]

Right. I was wrong.

[Hannah]

That also makes me sad because it's almost like you're blaming yourself. It's like I have to watch him.

[Maya]

Yeah. And part of it is I felt like, well, he's this. This big, strong guy, and he goes to the gym every day. He's got super high testosterone levels. I'll let you draw your own conclusions on why. And he's got needs. Right. He's a man. So I'm there every day. We can only see each other once a month or maybe, you know, twice a month or sometimes not for a couple of months. So if I'm there, then that will solve that problem. So I find a job and I relocate. And when I relocate. A couple of days before I started my new job, I was sitting on the couch, and I got a phone call from an old high school friend, somebody I'd known since I was 2. I grew up with him. So I answered the phone, and he tells me that his brother passed away very suddenly, and he was very upset. And it was some. You know, I had known his brother, too, so it was a very sad moment. And. And I talked to him for a little bit and apologized. I wouldn't be able to make the funeral because I was not in the same state anymore, and it would. It was too short a notice. And not that you can plan that stuff out, but I just. I couldn't make it happen, and I felt terrible. But I talked to my friend for maybe 30 minutes, and I hung up the phone, and I noticed that Chris was pacing back and forth in the house just kind of furiously and imposingly. And I asked him what's wrong? And his face is beet red and he's sweating and he's shaking, and he demands to know who I was talking to and why was I talking to a man.

[Mackenzie]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

Hate this.

[Maya]

And I'm like. I was blindsided by it because I'd just gotten off of a really difficult conversation, and it was very obvious that we were talking about something sad tears were happening. And.

[Hannah]

Yeah, you'd think he'd want to ask, are you okay?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Maya]

That was never the question. Well, he starts screaming at me, and he's sweating and spit flying out of his mouth, and he's like a rabid dog. And he starts doing something I've never seen an adult do in my life. He starts slapping himself in the face.

[Hannah]

And you're probably like, oh, my gosh, stop.

[Maya]

I just relocated. I. I've only been there for a few days, and I just discovered that one of my best friend's little brothers just passed away. It was an emotional moment, and my. My boyfriend is having a mental breakdown on me and lashing out at me because I spoke to another man. I was beside myself. I was terrified. And I just sat there dumbfounded. And he said, you need to stay here. I'm going to clean the stalls. You stay here. I don't even want to look at you right now.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chris]

And I was just frozen in fear. And we spent the rest of that weekend doing fun things. Like we went to an amusement park and we tried very hard to just get back to normal. And it was by.

[Maya]

By. We.

[Chris]

It was. He was acting as though I needed to earn his forgiveness, and I was doing everything I could to make things better and. And get back to the love bombing. And I was just thinking to myself, wait, I just need to get through this weekend because I fly out in a. In a few days to go get started with my new job. And then I'll be away for Monday through Friday, and then I come home Friday night. So it'll give him some cool down time. Well, then we get into a flow and things go back to good because, you know, we're FaceTiming every night and we're texting all day long, and everything seems very normal.

[Maya]

And he knows now I've signed a lease on his apartment, and now I'm financially obligated.

[Mackenzie]

Like he.

[Maya]

The tables have turned a little bit because now I'm stuck with him kind of deal. So me threatening to just leave, it's not so easy now because I'm. I'm now financially responsible.

[Hannah]

It's so interesting you hadn't seen any of this behavior until then.

[Maya]

Right. And that's when I took this new job. We decided to do a domestic partnership so that I could cover him on my insurance.

[Mackenzie]

Yep.

[Maya]

Yep. And so I am legally.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Maya]

Bound to him and responsible for him now.

[Mackenzie]

Wow.

[Maya]

That was a lot.

[Chris]

And I was still paying for everything. But once we moved in together, and after that night where he freaked out about the phone call, I started scaling back because before that, I very much felt terrible for him because he just seemed like no matter what he did, he was just down on his luck and he seemed like he was trying and I cared about him, and I. I always felt like, well, if I just help him this time, then something's going to happen and he'll get a job and he'll be able to get back on his feet. I just need to help him sustain because he's trying really hard and he's going to get a job and he'll get back on his feet. I just need to help him this time. And it was always, well, now I need to help him just this one more time. And it wasn't until after I had relocated and been there for a little while and I had seen his first major temple temper tantrum that I sat down and I started doing the math and I'm like, oh, my God, this is getting ridiculous. And so I did start scaling back on how much money I was giving him. But I would do things like when I was out of town during the week and he didn't have food and he was going to have to, according to him, go. Go to bed that night without eating all day. I would doordash him food because this poor man, oh my gosh, I can't let him go without eating tonight. Like, how, how horrible of a human being would I be if I let him lose his electricity and he can't have a hot shower? Or when I come home and not have hot shower for myself? Like, I. It was just. I started sustaining only what I absolutely had to, and it. It became less and less and less. And I think that I'm. I'm sure this is a cycle that he's been through many times before. And when I think he realized at some level that I was wising up and pulling back a little bit.

[Maya]

So I go to work and we have this regular thing where I'm home every weekend with him and we do our thing on the weekends and I go back to work Monday through Friday. Well, there were a couple of weekends where there was no point in me going home to him because he had acting gigs and so I just didn't go home.

[Hannah]

Where would you stay?

[Maya]

Well, I have an apartment for my. I travel for work. So.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Maya]

I had an apartment a few hours away in, in the other town and would come. It was only three hours away. So then I would drive home and spend the weekends with him and then. Drive. Yeah. So now I've been there a few months and going home every weekend. And then one weekend he tells me that he's going to visit his brother a couple of hours away and that he'll come see me on Sunday. So he doesn't want me to come home. He's going to go to another town to visit his brother on Friday, Saturday, and he's not going to have any service because of course, his brother happens to live somewhere that has no cell phone service. And so I'm like, okay, whatever. Well, what I didn't know at the time is that on Sunday, when he's supposed to be coming to visit me, I hadn't heard from him. And then all of a sudden, he comes bursting through my door, angry, screaming at me, saying that I messaged and sent pictures to a bunch of people and all of that. And he grabs my phone out of my hand, and I'm totally confused. I have no idea what he's talking about.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Maya]

And he's like, I don't see where you sent these messages. And I'm like, I don't know what.

[Hannah]

You'Re talking about because they're not.

[Maya]

Well, because I had relocated one cert, one cell phone service didn't work at where I used to live. So I essentially had two personal cell phones. And the other one that I had, I hadn't used in a long time. I didn't even turn it on. I had no idea. Well, he had taken the phone I did use away from me.

[Chris]

And after I got back up because he had grabbed me and kind of tossed me around a little bit. He didn't hit me, but he tossed me to the ground, yanking my phone out of my hand and going through it. And I remember as I was sitting there on the ground, remembering, I have another phone. I need to get into the bedroom. I need to just get, get physically away from him. Maybe I can lock the door if I need to. I mean, I knew he could get through the door if he wanted to, but I just needed to get some distance, and I felt really unsafe. So I went and I grabbed my other phone out of the nightstand, and I look down and I see these messages and photos, and I start looking through and I'm like, oh, my God. He wasn't with his brother.

[Maya]

And it's screenshots and photos and documentation. And I sat down on my bed, and I start scrolling through, and it turns out that he had a relationship with the actress girl. He had a relationship with another girl who the whole reason he didn't want me to come home that weekend is because this girl drove in from another state to spend a couple of days with him in our apartment, of course.

[Hannah]

Oh, wait, who's sending you this?

[Maya]

I didn't know.

[Hannah]

Receipts. It's all an honest.

[Maya]

I have no idea.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, okay.

[Maya]

I, I, I'll get into it more, but I, I don't have A clue who's.

[Hannah]

You don't know. Right now, you're in one room seeing receipts of his affairs while he's in the other room yelling at you for having affairs.

[Maya]

Right. So he comes in to my bedroom and discovers I have another cell phone, and he takes it from me. And he sees all of these pictures and all of this stuff. So he realizes I'm not the one that sent that stuff. It was sent to me also. Well, it was sent in a group message.

[Hannah]

Wait, I'm so confused.

[Maya]

I was confused, too. So it was a group text message. Somebody had sent this to myself, the actress girl. And there were two other girls that this stuff was sent to.

[Hannah]

Was he in it, too?

[Maya]

No.

[Hannah]

Oh, no. It was just blasting all the girlies.

[Maya]

Yeah. So outing a bunch of girls. There were pictures of him with all of us. There were screenshots of conversations. There were screenshots of him on Tinder. There were screenshots of him on a thing called Jerkmate.

[Mackenzie]

Jerk. What is that? Oh, what is that?

[Maya]

Yeah, it is what you think it is. And I don't know how he had time because he had me on the phone 24 7. And when he didn't have me on the phone, we were FaceTiming before I was there. And when I was there, we were physically together all the time. So I have no idea how he was able to manage this. There was just. Whoever this was was very angry, and they have access to.

[Hannah]

They found him. I mean, I get why they're angry. Imagine it's another one of these girlfriends.

[Maya]

Yeah. So I had also just found out. I hadn't even told him yet. I had just found out I had stage two breast cancer.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Maya]

And. And all I can think of is, I can't let my life fall apart right now. I've got to keep my medical insurance. I've got to keep a job.

[Chris]

And I was immediately I switched over into, okay, now I'm in survival mode, and I've got to get out of this situation. And I just started planning after that.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh. So you're sitting there processing all of this.

[Maya]

Yeah. And so he tells me, because he now knows that I know everything. Well, I'm not the only one that knows everything. The actress girl knows everything. The girl that was just visiting him knows everything. The. Like, there's like, four or five people that know everything. But now in my head, I'm like, I've got to figure out my way out of this.

[Hannah]

Does he try to deny it or.

[Maya]

Yeah, he says it's all a lie. It's his angry ex. It's somebody out to get him, somebody jealous.

[Mackenzie]

Of course, of course. All of that, it's never anybody's fault. It's always someone else's fault, right?

[Maya]

Oh, yeah. Victim on the planet.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, 100%. Sounds like it.

[Maya]

During all of this time, I had been paying all bills, auto insurance, I was feeding him, I gave him medical insurance. And so now I'm kind of in. I've got to get out of this mode. But I still have to be careful with him because he's got access to all of my property. He's got access to my bank account because of course I added him to my bank account. All of these things while he tells me he's going to leave and he doesn't want me to come home and he's going to drive my truck. And I'm like, oh, no, you're not. You're not. You're not driving my truck. He's like, yes, I am. You can't stop me. And I'm like, no, but I can call the police if you leave with my truck, I'm going to report it. Someone.

[Mackenzie]

Yes, 100%.

[Maya]

So I end up driving him back to our apartment and I felt like I had to do whatever I could to make him think everything was okay and that I didn't believe all the stuff. And so I stayed that night. And all the things that happen when.

[Chris]

You are with your person happen.

[Maya]

Of course we had sex and did all of that. But when I got there, all of the pictures that were of us together in the apartment were taken off the wall and placed face down on the shelves. Then there was a sink full of dishes for two for a couple of days. It was very obvious. So what had happened was this girl had driven in from out of town to visit him and stayed in our apartment. And they were out on the town having fun, spending my money, hitting restaurants, bars, downtown, party, all of that.

[Hannah]

And did you, if you care to share, just because I know you're not alone and being in that position where you're like, I'll just do anything to appease this person. How did that feel? Like, not.

[Maya]

It felt.

[Hannah]

Trying not to cry.

[Maya]

Horrible. I was like. I felt. And I'm an educated person. I've got two degrees, I've got a great career, I'm a total go getter. Everyone that that works for me calls me the boss babe. So I'm pretty large and in charge in life. And then I'm like, how, how did I let this happen? I feel so stupid. And I was more angry at myself than anything else. And around every corner, he has outed himself every time. And I have given him the benefit of the doubt. And I didn't want to embarrass him. I didn't want to call him out and emasculate him. And, oh, this poor guy, he's already going through such a hard time.

[Mackenzie]

You gave him so much grace.

[Maya]

Right. And I have stuff in storage that I'm now paying for for him and I to have stuff in storage together. And I just go into survival mode. I'm like, okay, first things first. I got to get them off the bank account.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

So I lied and I said, oh, bank fraud. I had to shut that account, and. And I got it. I had to open a new account. Sorry, you don't have access anymore. And I can't add you if you're not here with me. So that's the first thing I did, was take him off the bank account. And then I would wait until he would tell me he had an acting gig and was going to be gone for the weekend, and I would come home and not tell him I was coming. And I would drive by to make sure he wasn't actually at the apartment. And I would get stuff, like my guns. I got. I took my guns out of the apartment. I took my valuables out of the apartment. I went to the storage unit. I started sneaking that stuff back. And the storage was easy because he didn't notice that stuff, but he noticed my guns. He noticed when I took my jewelry. He started noticing those things. And I'm like, oh, I just. You know, I just wanted them closer to me. And I don't feel safe being away from you. So I want.

[Hannah]

Yeah, look at you. You are so good at. I don't feel safe being away from you. Like, stroking the ego, doing everything.

[Maya]

Everything I could to make it about, oh, poor little me without big, strong you.

[Mackenzie]

Feed that ego, girl. Feed that ego to get what you want.

[Maya]

That's what I had to do.

[Chris]

And while I'm trying to detach myself from him, I'm also going through cancer treatment and being so sick, it. Like, I. I detached from him so easily because I had to survive. I went into survival mode, and I had to focus on surviving each day and getting through my appointments and getting through my treatments.

[Maya]

And now Thanksgiving's coming up, and usually for work, I have from Thanksgiving to Christmas off. And so it's an opportunity for me to spend with my parents and my.

[Hannah]

Family how Long had it been since you found out when. Since you got the group text.

[Maya]

It was, I don't know, three or four months. Ish.

[Hannah]

Wow, that's a long time to be planning your exit.

[Maya]

I had to be very careful because at this point, I was, no joke. I was terrified of him. I bet you were, because he had exhibited his roid rage, like three or four now. And I just wanted to do everything I could to not see that part of him and deal with that part of him. Well, the night of Thanksgiving, I went to go visit my family, and I did not invite him. He'd gone with me the year before, and I did not invite him this time. I just told him that there was some family stuff going on and that I needed to be with my parents and I would be there. Not for the week, but I would be there for the. The full time I had off. Unlike the last time, where I spent a week with my family and the rest of time with him. Well, Thanksgiving night, I get a phone call from him, and he tells me how upset he is, and I'm like, what's going on? And he's got this emotional thing he wants to tell me about, and he tells me that one of the girls that it happened to be the girl that he had been busted with at our apartment Thanksgiving night. The girl's mom had a fire, and she perished in fire on Thanksgiving night, which is a horrible thing you wouldn't wish on anybody.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah. But I don't know if I believe it.

[Maya]

My first question, because he is still denying that she was ever there, they were ever a thing. And I'm like, why would this person, who's just a fan, one, have your number? And two, why is she calling you as her mother is perishing in a fire? Why would she call you?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

How did she get your number? And why would she call you? Well, then he got upset at me because I questioned him, and I had gone out of my way not to question him on stuff, but I feel.

[Hannah]

Like in that moment, of course, like, I wouldn't have any filter. I'd be like, wait, I don't.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Maya]

And. And he immediately told me what a horrible person I was.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Maya]

I was just jealous and that I had no empathy, blah, blah, blah.

[Hannah]

Oh, man.

[Maya]

And that wasn't the case at all. Like, what a horrible thing for anybody to go through. And I. I feel terrible for her.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Maya]

But why would she call you?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I would ask the same thing.

[Maya]

No, he got furious with me. And of course, I'm states away visiting my family, so I feel safe to question him. Well, he got mad and he hung up on me.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Maya]

And I just sort of ignored it and I didn't call him. And that was not like me to not grumble. Grovel, grovel.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

Because you have to forgive me for.

[Maya]

The thing that he did and the.

[Hannah]

Way he just beg him to forgive you for the thing that he did. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Maya]

Over the next couple of days, I get more messages from a man named Dave and I am so confused, but this guy basically outs himself saying that they had been having a relationship for years actually. And years. Yeah. Oh. And so this man tells me everything over messages and says that he had been cash apping him money to help him get through his financial hard time.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, he was.

[Maya]

Right.

[Hannah]

He had a whole sugar set of parents.

[Maya]

Yeah. So I remember that whenever a cash app is sent, you get an email.

[Mackenzie]

Oh no.

[Maya]

So I do a search for cash app.

[Mackenzie]

Hell yeah, you did.

[Maya]

On his email. And this man had loaned him 30,000.

[Hannah]

Holy shit. So damn.

[Maya]

It turns out that he'd been getting money from this man and he found out about me. Well, then I start going, wait a minute, who else is he getting money from? Yeah, this for PayPal and Venmo. And he's getting money from the girl who lost her mom. He's getting money from another girl named Tammy.

[Mackenzie]

Who's Tammy?

[Maya]

He, she's just another girl.

[Hannah]

Like a little bit of Monica in my life, a little bit of Dave on my cash app. Like he's just got everybody.

[Maya]

He's getting money from like five different people, including the girl, the actor girl, and a guy and several other women. Ironically, all of these people were people that had been posting on TikTok, Facebook and Instagram. And I, I go full detective and I'm like, I've got my. Not literally, but I've got like my little drawing board and pictures and dates. And now I've figured out that. Remember how I had mentioned that, the map thing?

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no. Yes.

[Maya]

Well, I figured out how to find that information and I went back and I did a full investigation of everything he had told me by text, by messenger, by all of this dates. And I start checking against the dates on, on his mapping. And he had been rotating, so he had been either with me or the actress girl, the Lola girl, or the Tammy girl, or now there's a girl named Gina.

[Hannah]

This is his full time job.

[Maya]

Yeah. Well, I know why he couldn't find a job. He didn't have Time.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Maya]

Yeah. So then I had to focus on two things. I had to focus on getting my surgery done and treatment. I had ended up having to have two surgeries. Treatment went on for months and months and months, and I got so sick.

[Hannah]

Oh.

[Maya]

But the whole time, I continued to work, and I was sneaking my things out of the apartment and got everything out of storage. I don't remember how I condiment to putting the storage into his name, but I. I ended up getting him to downsize the storage unit because none of my stuff was in there anymore and put it in his name. I'm more focused on my health and getting away from it.

[Mackenzie]

As you should be. Yeah.

[Maya]

So I talk to my work, and they have another location they can send me. And I'm like, great, get me out of this state. It'll be a little closer to my family. I need a wave. And they're like, what about. I was like, yeah, don't worry about that. I need to go.

[Hannah]

Yeah. With the.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, let's do this right now. So priority.

[Maya]

I had to now change my treatment. I had had one surgery, I had to have another. I had had two surgeries. I had to have another surgery. So I had to relocate my medical stuff, oncology, and set up treatment in a new state.

[Hannah]

And what was he like with your treatment? Was he supportive? Was he just like, whatever?

[Maya]

He was oblivious. Like, he knew about it, but he didn't really ask.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Maya]

I didn't volunteer a whole lot. Like, I don't know that he actually really realized that I had shut down and wasn't giving him anything anymore. I was taking his phone call, and I just started distancing myself more and more. And then it was a. Oh, sorry. Work just relocated me, which also was a huge benefit because now I had a legal way to get my name off the lease.

[Mackenzie]

Good for you.

[Maya]

So I had a letter from my company so that I was able to break the lease and they had to put it back in his name. So I got out from under all of that as well.

[Hannah]

Did you do all those things before telling him that you were leaving, or did you have to tell him first?

[Maya]

I kind of. I did all but the apartment. I got all of that done except for the storage unit and the apartment being switched in back into his name until the very last minute. And it was. I can't control it.

[Chris]

Work is telling me I gotta go.

[Maya]

Now or I lose my job. And I can't lose my job because I've gotta keep medical insurance or I'm gonna Die. So I get relocated and I get off the lease and I get off the storage unit. I got safely, all of my things away from him. And I'm still placating him. He's still on my medical insurance because he has to have an angioplasty, which is heart surgery. He had to have surgery. And he wanted me to come down there and be with him even though he hadn't been there for me for any of my surgeries.

[Mackenzie]

No, but he's a fucking crybaby.

[Maya]

Sorry.

[Mackenzie]

He's a cryb baby.

[Maya]

No, no. You had it right the first time.

[Hannah]

So where are all the other people? Ask one of your other freaking girlfriends.

[Maya]

Here. Here's the fun part about that, is his ex wife finally reaches out to me and she somehow knows that I, I now know the truth.

[Chris]

It was on social media, I think it was Facebook. And we explained to each other who the other person was. And I started verifying some details with her and started learning that he was not at all the person that I thought he was. And we just started like information dumping each other. And over that time, she kind of helped me fill in the gaps as to like when his mother passed away and he went to his mom's funeral. He absolutely refused to let me go to the funeral. He didn't want me there. And she did go. And his ex wife told me that he went straight to spend the weekend with the actress girl after like they. She saw that they met up and then they headed down to her state where she lived. And he spent the weekend with the actress instead of with me, who was his. I didn't realize it. I was his primary girlfriend, but she also thought she was his primary girlfriend. And then there were several other girls that thought they were not in committed relationships with him, but in serious relationships with him. And then there were a number of others that were agreed upon hookups. Another thing she put together for me, if you remember that story he told me about the traumatic event he went through that made him quit being an emt. I found out that he had in fact been a paramedic, but the reason he stopped being a paramedic was because he was fired. And he was fired for essentially assaulting one of his patients en route to the hospital in a sexual manner. So essentially nothing of what, what he had told me was actually the truth. So I think he was gathering enough information about me and then coming up with stories to get me to let my guard down and relate to him. And looking back on part of why detaching from him was probably easier for me on an emotional level was because I felt so betrayed that he used things that were deeply traumatic and deeply personal to me, and experiences I had went through that made me feel like I had that thing in common with him. And it's a. That's a really horrible thing to do to a person. But as I learned, that's something that narcissists do, and they'll pick up bits and pieces of conversations that you have and use it against you. But initially, the ex wife and I started out just kind of trauma bonding and sharing some of the things we had been through. And then I was determined to help the ex wife recoup as much of the money as I could while I had access to the information. And so I was just determined to help her because the poor woman is a total little boss babe like me in a different industry, a total career boss power woman. And she's brilliant and has this amazing career. And he had taken her for so much money and left her with so much marital debt. And I was determined that I was going to do everything I could to help her. And. And so that's. That's how our friendship began.

[Maya]

And she is the most loving, kind person.

[Mackenzie]

Aw.

[Maya]

I have ever encountered, ever. And she literally checked on me daily. She checked on me after, like, nice surgeries, like, offered to help me. Like, was so much support. Well, he had to have his surgery and he wanted me to come drive several hours down to. To go be there for him. Well, of course, I had checked out at this point and I didn't care anymore, but I was still human enough to not cut off his insurance before.

[Mackenzie]

You're nicer than a lot of people probably would have been.

[Maya]

So I left him on my medical insurance and my auto insurance until I wanted him to have this surgery. Well, he tells me that he has two friends that are guys and they're. They're a couple. They're wonderful people, too. I love them to death. But he told me that they were going to take him to surgery since I couldn't. So I thought, okay, that's good. I'm still feeling bad for him and wanting him to be okay as a human. Like, I don't wish death upon him. There's been some other times that I don't know that I wouldn't necessarily said that, but I. I don't. I don't wish that on him. So his ex wife and I had become very good friends, and she would keep me focused on staying positive and being healthy. But. But Once in a while, when we are having bad days and we need to venture, we would, you know, exchange stories and laugh at his expense and just give each other solace. So we're, like, lifting each other up and loving each other through all we're going through and just listening to each other's stories. Well, then one day she says to me, oh, my God, you're not going to believe this.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Maya]

And I went, what? And she says, there's this Facebook group where people out, bad guys.

[Hannah]

Are we dating the same guy?

[Maya]

Yes.

[Hannah]

That the one?

[Maya]

That's the one.

[Mackenzie]

There's one like every city, too.

[Maya]

It's the best for ladies who are not involved. Do it. Do it right now. Do not pass. Go. Go right to joining the group because it's amazing. He's been posted in this group not once, but a number of times.

[Hannah]

Wow. Going back how far?

[Maya]

For like a year or.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Maya]

So he's probably in there 15 or 20 times. Oh, my God. So then me, I'm like, okay, I'll buy. I want to see what people like. I know him. I can, you know, Ask me what you want to ask me. Send me a message or I'll just say it right on here. Ask me what you want to know.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I lived with him.

[Maya]

I explain who I am, and the actress girl pops up and all these familiar names start popping up, and I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Maya]

So then another girl sends me a message, and she tells me that he would drive my truck to go to her house. They were more friends with benefits, but that was mutually agreed. She didn't know he had anyone, and she said that he would drive my truck to her house and tell her how expensive my truck was to drive because it's not a cheap. It's a gas hog. And he would try to get her to give him gas money, and she wouldn't do it. So he told her, now, keep in mind, my truck is a very big truck. It's lifted, it's got the big oversized tires off road, because I'm into all that stuff. He tells her that his mom had passed away earlier that year, that he inherited my truck from his mother, who was like 5 foot 2 and very.

[Mackenzie]

Frail, driving a damn lifted ass monster truck.

[Maya]

Yeah. So he. He tells her that he inherited it from his mother. So Riley is who I met on the Facebook group, and she's the one who told me that he would drive my truck to her and that he inherited it from his mom. Blah, blah.

[Mackenzie]

What a dick.

[Maya]

Riley sends me a picture of. Because that's what we all do, is we send pictures of ourselves with. With him to prove that we are telling the truth. And she says, here I am taking care of him after his surgery.

[Mackenzie]

Oh.

[Maya]

So he had conned her into taking him to the hospital and back, and then she stayed and took care of him after. And when I added up all of the PayPals and cash apps and the Venmos and all those things, we're talking probably a hundred thousand dollars. Holy sh.

[Hannah]

That's what I would have thought. He had rent you paid.

[Maya]

I was close to half of that. And then the rest was from other people. And I was mortified when I found all of this out.

[Chris]

Well, then Riley and me also became good friends. By the time I met Riley, I was super, super sick, and the weight was just flying off of me and I couldn't keep food down. And I explained to her what was going on, and she immediately jumped to my side and we bonded. Probably even quicker than I did with the ex wife originally. But by this time, we had gotten very close and. And the three of us just became like Charlie's Angry Angels investigation. And we decided that we were going to support each other and we were going to try to protect other women from him doing this again to anyone else.

[Maya]

So then I decided, okay, enough's enough. I'm gonna post. So I post on the thing and I give details. Now, I keep anonymity. I follow all of the rules, but I give details, I post pictures, I share everything. I get a message from somebody who is a friend of a new girl that he is now seeing. Well, she wasn't that new. It turned out she'd been with him for like, five, six months, I guess.

[Hannah]

But new to you. New to. She wasn't in the original group chat, right?

[Maya]

So, yeah, she was not in that chat. And this girl. And she doesn't tell me who this girl is. She doesn't give her her name, but I. I give the name and I say, he's got a new girlfriend. And she goes, oh, my God, that's my friend. Well, it turns out this girl is much, much younger than him. She's married. She lives in another state. That's kind of his M.O. she has a young daughter. So I tell this girl to tell her friend. I was like, oh, my God, this is what he's done. He conned one girl who was a single mom who just got a back pay from child support. He conned her into buying him a vehicle.

[Mackenzie]

Of course, he Freaking did. Oh, my God.

[Maya]

He conned another girl into buying him new tires. Like, I. I start telling her everything I know because I'm like, you can't let him ruin her life. She's young. She's a mom. She's married. She's got a young daughter. Now, I don't ever think it's okay to cheat. It's not okay to cheat, but this girl is much younger. She's, like, half of his age, and she's gonna ruin her whole life. And I was like, look, he's dangerous. He's violent. I'm begging this girl, please. You can give her my phone number. I don't even care if he finds out. I want to protect this girl. Well, she tells her friend everything, and she gives her my number, but she never reaches out to me. I messaged him. I didn't even give him the courtesy of a phone call. I messaged him, and it was the day before his birthday. And at this point, I feel safe enough to say, he's been through his surgery. He's been through his. After treatments, we're done. And I told him I knew about everybody. Everything. I knew everything. And I had the receipts for everything. We're done. He's like, I can't believe you would ruin my life the day before my birthday, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I don't. I don't care. We're done.

[Mackenzie]

He's still playing a victim. Lord Jesus.

[Hannah]

Yeah, seriously. So I can't believe you would tell me what I did.

[Maya]

Right?

[Hannah]

Ridiculous.

[Maya]

So this girl, Gina, breaks up with him.

[Hannah]

Gina's. Which one again?

[Maya]

She's. She's the new girl, the young girl I just found out about.

[Hannah]

Okay. Gina's the one who's still who you.

[Mackenzie]

Want to protect, right?

[Maya]

I'm trying desperately to protect her. And she doesn't even live in the state yet. She's still out of state. So I'm like, maybe her marriage is salvageable. Yeah, maybe I can save this girl. Well, she breaks up with him, and it stays that way for a few weeks.

[Hannah]

Did you find that out through sleuthing, or were you guys all talking?

[Maya]

I'm lurking like I'm not anything. I'm just. I'm just watching, right? From a distance. And I'm respectful in that she hasn't reached out to me. I'm not going to push it. If she wants to talk to me, I'm here for her.

[Mackenzie]

Right. Okay.

[Maya]

I'm not going to force the narrative, but she's got the information.

[Hannah]

Yeah, you've notified the parties that be.

[Mackenzie]

You'Ve done the right thing. Now the ball's in her court.

[Maya]

Right. And I think I've been successful in saving this girl. Well, I'm now completely out of the relationship with him. And it went on way too long.

[Mackenzie]

Do you feel relieved at that point?

[Maya]

Like the whole weight of the world's been lifted off.

[Mackenzie]

Good for you. Okay. And how long had it been since you met him? At this point, it was like two.

[Maya]

And a half years.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, so that's still a long time.

[Maya]

Long time. Yeah. And six months of it was me escaping. And I felt so good. And part of it. There was a small part of me that was sad because now I had to say I was single, and I had to admit to myself I was single. Even though realistically I'd been single the whole time. I just didn't realize it, but I was kind of dealing with that too.

[Hannah]

And do you think that kind of kept you with him longer too?

[Maya]

Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

Just being scared, alone.

[Maya]

I didn't want to be alone, but I didn't. Yeah, I mean, that's it. I didn't want to be alone. And it wasn't even that I was heartbroken over him because, like, he. He pushed me to anger. And once I get there, I'm fine. But it's just a. I don't want to say to myself, look myself in the mirror and say, oh, yeah. It was just a whole, like, absorbing the reality of everything that actually happened. And then now I have. I have met and become friends with Riley, and I'm friends with the ex wife too. And I realized that we're our own little coven almost, and we're healing each other and. And I'm realizing, oh, my God, I love these girls. Aww. And Riley is just as little spitfire. She is like, love her to death, and she is just sass to the sassiest ever. And I love every bit of it. And then the ex wife is the most loving, godly, supportive, uplifting. No matter what she's going through. It's. I've got. You will get through this together. And both of them.

[Hannah]

Your sister, right?

[Maya]

Both of them are. Are very much. Riley's more that I'm gonna kick you in the pants if you don't boss up. And the ex wife is more love and support, and I love both of them to death. And. And I have individually become such good friends with both of them, and I adore both of them. And with their encouragement, I was like, that's it. I don't Care Like I'm far enough physically away from him that I don't care.

[Mackenzie]

Good for you.

[Maya]

I don't care if he shows up on my doorstep and does something horrible to me. I am going to speak up on this and I am going to protect other women. And this experience has turned me into the biggest girls girl.

[Chris]

And had it not been for the two girls that I had gotten so close with and them being so emotionally supportive of me and they didn't owe that to me. And I still, I still get, I mean, obviously we're trauma bonded, but I still get really emotional about the fact that here was an opportunity for women to hate each other. And it's so common that we do right when another woman has intervened in our relationship. Like Riley was literally one of the other women in my relationship. And I could have hated her and I could have blamed her for things. Obviously that doesn't make sense to do that, but how many of us do that when we find out about. About other women or automatic responses to blame the other woman? And she didn't know about me any more than I knew about her. And she turned out to be one of the most loving, supportive people in my life. And I, I don't know that I would have gotten through all of that had it not been for those two women. If I get emotional about any part of my story, it's the fact that these two women didn't owe me anything and they loved me and supported me through the most difficult thing in my life. And I'm talking about cancer and treatment and surgery and the nights that I laid on the bathroom floor because I was so sick and I couldn't be more than a few feet from the toilet because I couldn't keep, keep anything down. I couldn't keep even water down. And it was those two women that stayed on the phone with me and checked in on me and both of them offered to come up and stay with me if I needed help to get to appointments or get through surgery or if I just needed their support. And they've been the biggest blessing of all of this and, and I firmly believe I wouldn't be here today had it not been for them. So the three of us have really tried to continue finding and helping other people who might be victims of him.

[Maya]

Very recently I posted another post. This. This girl Gina, who was in another state, moved her husband, her daughter and her family right down the street from the apartment that he and I lived in.

[Hannah]

Oh my goodness.

[Maya]

And they got back together six months after she had Relocated her husband and her very young daughter. She filed for divorce and moved her husband out of their place and moved him in with her. Because he got evicted from.

[Mackenzie]

Because of course he did.

[Hannah]

Because you couldn't. He didn't have you guys.

[Maya]

Right.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Maya]

So I don't know what story he spun to her, but clearly he played some kind of long game with her.

[Mackenzie]

Of course he did.

[Maya]

And broke up the marriage. Now she's equally guilty like that was her marriage to ruin. But I did my part. I told her everything. And she's signed a lease and has him living. She's supporting him completely. And I don't know at the time that I would have listened when I was being.

[Mackenzie]

Not if you're being love bombed, you don't hear nothing but the love.

[Maya]

Right?

[Hannah]

Wow. This coven that came out of this.

[Maya]

These are friendships that I will have without a doubt the rest of my life. Riley, she's such a powerhouse and I admire her so much. She's just such a baddie.

[Hannah]

She sounds very resilient. Yes, well, you all do. But.

[Maya]

And she just owns the world. And she has a number of times just put a boot firmly in my rear when I needed it.

[Mackenzie]

Love that.

[Maya]

And, and empowered me in a way that I just can't even. I can never thank her enough.

[Mackenzie]

And amazing.

[Maya]

The ex wife and I talk almost daily. She was dating somebody and she's just kind of focusing on herself right now, as she should. Yeah. And the. What I went through was horrible. What she went through with two kids who were her step kids is gut wrenching terrible because she made all the same discoveries that I made and she has her own just jaw dropping story to tell. And, and I'll, I, I'll let her tell it. I hope that someday she talks to you guys too.

[Hannah]

We would love to talk to all of you, but if it works, healing for them.

[Maya]

Yes, I'm. And I, I think it is. And I, I love the podcast that you guys do and thank you so much. And it, it helps. I'm like, I'm not the only one. I mean, clearly I know I'm not the only one. There's probably hundreds of poor victims that just he's been through.

[Hannah]

But, you know, it sucks. We have people sometimes respond to episodes like, oh my God, I know this guy. Like kind of how you were posting. And then sometimes we will investigate to see if it is. And oftentimes it's like, similar details, similar location, totally different person.

[Mackenzie]

And that tells you that there's more than it's like, there's more than one of these dicks.

[Maya]

Like, what are we so many? Well, in the dating world, it's a minefield. Like, I. I dipped my toe in for a day on Facebook dating just like f that. Who. Who was out there. And there were five guys that tried to talk to me because I just relocated and it like this week, there were five guys that reached out to me and every one of them were magically unemployed. And I'm like, no.

[Mackenzie]

How is this possible? Dude.

[Maya]

Yeah, they're all on personal.

[Mackenzie]

I bet you're like, hell to the N. Oh, yeah.

[Maya]

No, my.

[Hannah]

No more grifters.

[Maya]

Yeah. My red flag detector is so strong. If it's even an orange flag.

[Hannah]

Not worth it.

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And it's so much better. I mean, and we all learn this the hard way to be alone than to be with one of these people.

[Maya]

And that's exactly where I'm at. Every once in a while, I'll turn the thing on just to see. And every time I'm like, nope, it's still bad out there.

[Mackenzie]

It's still like, it's a dumpster fire.

[Maya]

Zombie apocalypse in the world.

[Mackenzie]

So you're still kind of curious, but not curious enough to like, be like, I'm not even bought like, that. You're not curious enough to stick around and get.

[Maya]

Yeah, well, like, I. Basically some perfect guy who's employed and hard working and like, the perfect person will have to land in my lap and then force his way into my life.

[Mackenzie]

Good. Make him freaking word for it.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it can happen.

[Maya]

Yeah. And.

[Hannah]

But it doesn't need, like, you're. I hope you're feeling good. It sounds like you are.

[Maya]

Like, I'm happy. Like, I. With this last relocation for work I have decided and. And this has to do a lot with Riley and the ex wife telling me that I needed to live my life. And I'm like, okay, they're not wrong. I just spent the last, essentially five years of my life either focused solely on work or on fixing somebody else's life, and I. I don't need to do that anymore. And the. The silly thing about all of this is that with my career, I'm. I'm the boss and I work with all men. And when I say I work with all men, they all work for me.

[Hannah]

Hell yeah.

[Maya]

I know how to talk to men. I know how to read men. I know how to get them to do what I need them to do. My career is literally to tell men what to do for a living, and I do it well. But then when I date, it's like all of a sudden I put a dunce cap on and I can't make an intelligent decision to save my life. So now I've got my dog, I've got my horse, I've got my career, and that's it.

[Hannah]

How is your health?

[Maya]

I am happy to say I am in remission. I'm doing very well.

[Mackenzie]

Good for you.

[Maya]

Sadly, he's still with Gina. And the sad thing about it is, from all accounts that I can tell, and I don't know her, but she. She's a boss babe, too. She has her own business, and it just turns my stomach. And every once in a while, I get fired up about it and I get back on that website and I post again, and every single, single time, new people pop up. So he is continuing to do this to other people and up to and including somebody. Screenshot one of my last posts about him, and he sent me screenshots of the screenshots, which was dumb, because then it told me immediately who it was that sent it, and I was able to turn them in. So that's what she gets for being.

[Hannah]

Because you're not allowed to do that on that.

[Maya]

No, we didn't risk. You don't do that to other women. But he said that I was defaming his character and blah, blah. And I said, and I.

[Mackenzie]

Fact is facts, bro.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it's not defamation if you did it right.

[Maya]

So I literally sent a Wikipedia description. I was like, the truth. I am not liable. So you want to take me to court? Take me to court.

[Mackenzie]

Love that for us.

[Hannah]

Let's go. I was like, plus, he doesn't have the money to take you to court.

[Maya]

Exactly. I promise you, if you take me to court, I will have my lawyer subpoena every single woman I know about. And I know about a lot of them.

[Mackenzie]

He don't want that new magic.

[Hannah]

No, no, no.

[Maya]

He backed down real quick. And I told him when we very first started dating, in the very beginning, I told him, don't screw me over. I will not be screwed over by one more guy. I will take you to the clean. He did not take me seriously. I'm making good on it now. And I will continue to post on that website and I will continue to tell the truth.

[Hannah]

And you know what? When Gina, hopefully is ready, you've made yourself available. We talk about this sometimes when you're dealing with a friend who's in a relationship that might be abusive or just you don't like, and you can't I wish we could get them out, but they have to leave.

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

They have to want. Like, it has to be their idea.

[Hannah]

But making yourself available to them is half of the support.

[Maya]

And that's exactly what I will do, is if the day ever comes, she's got my phone number. If the day ever comes that she wants to reach out to me for support, I'll be there. If she wants me to be there, I will be there. I will do the same for her that. That Riley and Olivia have done for me, and I will be there. I will support her. And I told her best friend who reached out to me the same thing, and I'm like, look, I'm not going to force the narrative. I'm not going to push it. If the day she changes her mind and she needs somebody to vent to or she just needs some support or if she is ever unsafe, I will be there for her.

[Mackenzie]

Got her? Yep.

[Maya]

Wow.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you so much for sharing your story and for being willing to share it, even though it comes up all the time, like, you're like, I felt so dumb. Like, you're such an intelligent woman. Like, how do I get duped like this? And so I think that it's so brave of you to share your story. And, you know, other people. We always get responses where people are like, oh, my gosh, I know this guy. Or like Hannah said, or like, this guy. I had a guy who did the.

[Maya]

Same thing to me.

[Mackenzie]

Like, holy crap, it's so good to know I'm not alone. And so just thank you so much for. For your courage.

[Maya]

Thank you, ladies, for all that you do. And I look forward to listening to more of your podcast because you. What you're sharing will inevitably save people heartache and probably save lives. So it matters.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you so much. We appreciate that.

[Hannah]

That we couldn't do it without people brave like you.

[Mackenzie]

So thank you 100%. Okay. Cowboy Chris.

[Hannah]

Oh, cowboy.

[Mackenzie]

What the hell?

[Hannah]

Excuse me. I can't. I am sorry. Sad for all of them, but who.

[Mackenzie]

Does this guy think he is?

[Hannah]

Well, I think so much of what she said. She's obviously done a lot of research on covert narcissism. I'm thinking back to the book we read by Dr. Romani Dervasula. It's not. You learned so much. They just can't stop. They. Nothing will satisfy them. What about dry? Dry begging?

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

So new vocab words.

[Mackenzie]

Every single one of. You know somebody who does the dry begging. It reminds me of when someone posts on Facebook and they go, oh, it's been such a hard day. I just don't know what I'm gonna do. Full send. And then you're like, what's wrong? Right. That's what it makes me think of. And it's like, oh, man, if only I had $5. And you're like, if you just walk.

[Hannah]

Up to someone and go.

[Mackenzie]

And they're gonna be like.

[Hannah]

Like, of course you're gonna ask.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, like, that's totally what it is. It's passive aggressive. Right?

[Hannah]

Yeah. I'm looking online. Okay. I found dry begging involves dropping hints, making suggestive comments, or even complaining in a way that implies a need for support, sympathy, money, or validation. It gives the burden of interpretation on the other partner who may or may not pick up on the hint. So. Oh, then they're like, creating a narrative in their mind. Like, this person isn't asking me what's wrong. They don't love me. They're not.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Then you're all of a sudden, they're mad at you, and you don't even know why or exactly you pay for them. You know? Oh, I'm looking at. These are good examples. It says, we don't cuddle anymore like we used to, which hints at a need for more physical affection. Or it'd be nice if I didn't have to do everything myself, which indicates a desire for more support. Both of those things are like, we could all do it. Like, we all probably do it. But he was doing it in a financially abusive way.

[Mackenzie]

That's the thing, too. What he was doing was definitely financial abuse. Manipulating someone in a way so that you get what you want financially. And she was taking care of everything. And like. Like, the least you could have done was if you were using her. The least you could have done was been loyal to her.

[Hannah]

I mean, I don't. If he's using her. Yeah. Don't expect anything from him. Like.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, definitely not.

[Hannah]

I'm looking at my notes. He said, remember when he had a freak out right after the man called her about the death?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Like a family friend. Not only was that him projecting jealousy and control over her talking to a man, but I also remembered that narcissists always make big moments in your life about them. So that made me think of that.

[Mackenzie]

And the another thing that really. That really struck me, no pun intended, was him slapping himself, like, getting so mad where he's, like, roid, raging on himself. Like, dude. Yeah.

[Hannah]

In a way, that's. It makes it seem like she's responsible for hurting him, even though she's not.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And of course he was gonna blame her for that. Like, none of it. And. But the biggest thing that. The thing that I was impressed with her the most was the compassion that she had, despite what she had gone through is insane.

[Hannah]

You guys, like, like, letting him get his surgery on her insurance just because she's like, I'm not gonna leave him high and dry.

[Mackenzie]

She's. I can't just let this guy, like, be hurt. He needs this. And talk about selflessness, like, even though this person hurts you and you have every right to be pissed at them, like, no, he can die. I don't care. But no, she said, you know what? I want to do the right thing and make sure he gets what he needs. And I just think that's incredible because how many people would do that? I don't think I would.

[Hannah]

I think it's hard to do that. And also maintain your own boundaries, too. And I'm.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I.

[Hannah]

Obviously, that was a journey. She would be the first to say that she wish she had left sooner, but, like, I'm glad she found a way to get that off her conscious while also protecting herself and getting away.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

She didn't, like, stay because she felt guilty.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I commend her for that. I don't know how. And she lost a lot of money. But I think karma is always going to get you back, good or bad. And I think she's got some good karma built up. So she's. She. She's got some credit.

[Hannah]

Totally. I mean, also, the fact that she went through a cancer diagnosis during all of this and moving like, it's. This is not a new theme of. A lot of times I think of it as when somebody has a baby. Not to put you on blast, but I know you've expressed some of this where it's like, when you're in the middle of a big life event that has nothing to do with your relationship, it's easier to kind of block that side out.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And put up with behavior that you might not want or just stay in a relationship that you don't want because you're like, that's not my focus right now.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And it doesn't phase you as much. It's not your focus. So it's not as noticeable or it doesn't. It's not as hurtful or whatever.

[Hannah]

That made sense to me.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. It's. Man, this guy.

[Hannah]

She said she was talking about how men are banking on women being mad at the other woman and, like, pitting women against each other. Which makes sense. But I also think that part of what contributes to that is when we raise people with the idea that boys will be boys and we just, like, let their behavior be acceptable. Because then when they cheat, we're like, well, he's a man. He cheated. But the woman, how dare she take my man? And it's like, none of. None of, like, no. That behavior.

[Mackenzie]

Where's the accountability going?

[Hannah]

Neither of the behavior is okay.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Hannah]

But also, let's not just pit each other against each other.

[Mackenzie]

Totally agree.

[Hannah]

That contributes too. It's not just about all of us women learning how to be girls. Girls. It's also about men not thinking they can get away with this.

[Mackenzie]

Exactly. 100. I totally agree. Man. And I just can't believe the. Are we dating the same guy? Facebook groups. And there's one in, like every city. They are very cautious and very careful about what they allow you to post in there. Like, you have to get accepted. Yeah. And you can't just be in there all willy nilly. Like, this guy is a jerk and he did this. Like, you have to be mindful. You have to be respectful. You have to be tactful. Yeah. And you can't just go slandering someone all willy nilly. And it's like they're very careful about it. But I do appreciate those groups.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, check yours out. And you never know. It's worth knowing that the resource exists. I wish we didn't have to think that way because I often, you know, I don't want to have to scroll through a Facebook page to see if my boyfriend's on it. But I also think if you're friends with people, like our community of the people here or the community she found, like, someone will tell you. Like, we all gotta gossip. Gossip helps each other. Like, literally. I know. Hot take, but not really like gossip. Okay. If you see something or hear something, say something.

[Mackenzie]

Gossip really does save lives.

[Hannah]

You guys, I want all of your thoughts at Datingating Detectives podcast on all the socials or Patreon. $5 a month. Come talk to us.

[Mackenzie]

And you get two bonus episodes every month.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And book club and early access to merch. And a community of coven. You get a coven.

[Mackenzie]

Like, you're definitely your own whole ass coven.

[Hannah]

Literally. That's why I love this community because you're all people that get it and you're all people that want to support each other and lift each other up. And even in the case of a story where you might have a different opinion or different thoughts, like most it's very rare that people are not kind. And usually if they're not kind, they're people that are just, like, finding the video, not listening to the episode, and don't actually know what.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

About. They're usually random people. Like, why would you stay? And it's like, you guys, don't. Come on. We're past that. We're way past that.

[Mackenzie]

You have no idea until you're in it. You have no freaking idea until you're in it.

[Hannah]

It.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, they'll find their way in their own time, but you will. Oh, email. What's our email? Mackenzie?

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah, our email address is [e-mail] Send us your stories and encourage other people to share theirs. Also, if you know somebody that's going through something and you're like, hey, you know, maybe you should share this, or just. It might give someone an outlet. It might give them a sense of security, or it might be cathartic, but, like, you never know how it could help someone or their story could help someone else. So send them our way.

[Hannah]

Especially if they're. I mean, we want everybody, but we get a lot of women talking about their straight male dogfish. But if you got any variations on that. Dogfish or not all men.

[Maya]

We are.

[Hannah]

We are an equal opportunity dogfish situation here, unfortunately.

[Mackenzie]

Absolutely.

[Hannah]

We love you guys.

[Mackenzie]

We love you so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. And you guys, if you get a chance, will you go give us five stars and give us a nice little friendly review? It really helps the podcast, so we'd really appreciate it.

[Hannah]

And as always, trust your femme tuition.