Dressed to Deceive: The Porsche & Penthouse Scam

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Dressed to Deceive: The Porsche & Penthouse Scam"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dating Detectives
• Host/Author: Dear Media
• Episode: Dressed to Deceive: The Porsche & Penthouse Scam
• Release Date: April 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of The Dating Detectives, hosts Mackenzie Fultz and Hanna Anderson, alongside special guest Leslie Barbara, unravel the intricate web spun by a sophisticated con artist in the modern dating landscape. Titled "Dressed to Deceive: The Porsche & Penthouse Scam," the episode delves deep into the story of Allison, a newly single mother who fell prey to a charismatic scammer named Brian. Through candid discussions and expert insights, the episode sheds light on the red flags that often go unnoticed in the whirlwind of online dating.

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Allison's Story: From Swipe to Scam

[04:08] Allison: "I was on Hinge and Bumble, mostly Hinge, and it was overwhelming. I went on multiple dates a week for the first month, feeling burnt out..."

Allison, a 39-year-old single mother, shares her journey of diving into the dating world after a 19-year relationship ended. The bustling dating scene in New York City becomes the backdrop for her encounter with Brian, a seemingly perfect match with a British accent and a polished demeanor.

[06:23] Allison: "He had a good looking profile. It wasn't boring. He initially messaged me with a voice note, so I hear the British accent."

Brian's charm was immediate, leading Allison to believe she had met someone truly special. Their conversations flowed effortlessly, creating a strong emotional connection that Allison cherished, especially during her first holiday season as a single woman.

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Uncovering the Red Flags

Despite the initial allure, subtle inconsistencies began to surface. Brian's sudden disappearance from Hinge before requesting Allison's phone number raised the first red flag.

[07:50] Allison: "He had a video uploaded from the gym I work at. He finds me on Instagram and asks to move the conversation to WhatsApp."

Brian's excuses for missing dates—emergencies in the UK, lost suitcases, and double-charged hotel stays—started piling up. Allison remained optimistic, attributing these to genuine mishaps until a critical moment when her driver's license vanished from her wallet.

[25:54] Allison: "My driver's license was gone. I was immediately skeptical."

This disappearance, coupled with unexplained financial discrepancies, made Allison increasingly wary of Brian's intentions.

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The Role of AI in Detecting Fraud

A pivotal moment in the episode highlights the unexpected aid Allison received from artificial intelligence.

[26:22] Allison: "I couldn't believe it. I used ChatGPT, put his name and where he was from, and it immediately convicted him of fraud. Sentenced to 40 months in prison for fraudulently selling a supercar and hotel fraud."

AI's ability to swiftly uncover Brian's criminal past played a crucial role in confirming Allison's suspicions, showcasing the potential of technology in modern investigations.

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Legal Insights with Leslie Barbara

Matrimonial attorney Leslie Barbara provides expert commentary on the legal ramifications of such scams and offers invaluable advice to listeners.

[43:30] Leslie: "When you sign a power of attorney, you're saying, I trust this person to make any of these decisions for me. And that's like, don't do that ever."

Leslie emphasizes the importance of understanding legal documents and recognizing manipulative tactics employed by con artists. She also discusses the concept of "creepy versus crime," helping listeners differentiate between unsettling behavior and actionable offenses.

[57:16] Leslie: "Creepy versus crime. We have the king of creepy."

Her insights shed light on the complexities of legal interventions in cases of emotional and financial manipulation within personal relationships.

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Lessons Learned: Protecting Yourself

The episode culminates in a series of actionable tips and lessons derived from Allison's harrowing experience.

[72:08] Mackenzie: "If you're someone who hasn't been a victim of identity theft or harassment, you probably know someone who has. Delete Me can help take control of your data."

Key takeaways include:

• Lock Your Credit: Immediately securing your credit can prevent unauthorized access and financial exploitation.
• Never Grant Power of Attorney: Unless absolutely necessary and trusted, avoid giving someone else the authority to make decisions on your behalf.
• Trust Your Intuition: Listening to gut feelings can be a powerful deterrent against potential scammers.
• Use Technology Wisely: Leveraging tools like AI can aid in uncovering hidden truths and protecting oneself from deceit.

[62:26] Allison: "He introduced me to this super successful real estate agent, but everything fell apart when the funds never materialized."

Her story underscores the importance of due diligence and skepticism, especially when financial commitments are involved early in a relationship.

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Conclusion

"Dressed to Deceive: The Porsche & Penthouse Scam" serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers lurking in the digital dating ecosystem. Through Allison's experience and the expertise of Leslie Barbara, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the tactics used by con artists and the measures needed to safeguard against them. The episode not only highlights the complexities of modern scams but also empowers individuals with the knowledge to recognize and respond to red flags effectively.

Notable Quotes:

• Allison (04:08): "I was ready to dive into the dating world as an adult for the first time in my life. Yeah, scary."
• Leslie (43:30): "When you sign a power of attorney, you're saying, I trust this person to make any of these decisions for me. And that's like, don't do that ever."
• Hanna (71:09): "Remember, you can't get closure from anybody else."

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Final Thoughts: This episode is a powerful reminder of the importance of vigilance in the dating world. By sharing real-life experiences and expert advice, The Dating Detectives equips listeners with the tools necessary to navigate relationships safely and confidently.

Transcript

[Hannah]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-77733 for support.

[Mackenzie]

Hi. Happy Dating Detectives Monday.

[Hannah]

Hello, everybody.

[Mackenzie]

So many people are like, I can't wait for Mondays because I need more dirt.

[Hannah]

We rebranded Mondays for you.

[Mackenzie]

It's Dating Detectives Monday. But this one's cool because you guys are going to actually recognize or you're going to remember one of our guests that we're going to hear from.

[Hannah]

This is a special one. So if you did not listen to this episode in the past, we will tell you what it is. You got to go back. Leslie Barbara is here today. She's a matrimonial attorney from New York, and she's been on the show before. Her episode was called Dogfish Prenups and Protecting Yourself with lawyer Leslie Barbara.

[Mackenzie]

And she had her own dogfish story to share.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Which was crazy because it even happens to big name people. And go listen to the episode. It was really good. Yeah.

[Hannah]

So she, we love her. And you guys sent us questions for her. It's a really interesting. Obviously, her story, oh, my God, I remember, like the spaghetti. Just go listen. And then she reached out to us and was like, I have a story for you. You need to talk to one of my clients.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, it's her actual client.

[Hannah]

Well, she'll explain how she's involved in the story. We're not gonna give that away. But she is here with her client to talk through this story. And I will warn you, closure's not. Not what I want it to be. There. That's what I'll say.

[Mackenzie]

Sometimes we are left reeling with no answers, and it freaking sucks.

[Hannah]

But how good is this story in terms of, like, warning people?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And I think it's interesting. Every time someone shares a story, there's always someone else who says, oh, my gosh, I went through something similar. Oh, my gosh, I'm going through that now. And I'm excited to get into it and share with you guys because we just love Leslie so much. Anyways, it's gonna be great.

[Hannah]

And send us questions, thoughts. We'll tell you at the end. Quickly, Patreon, if you're on our Patreon. We effing love you. I was about to, like, curse.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you so much for, for paying that extra $5 a month. And if you want to join the Patreon, you can do that anytime. The link is in the show notes. It's $5 a month. You get two bonus episodes. And the book club. We, we do book club. So that'll be next week.

[Hannah]

Yeah. April 27th, 3:00pm Pacific Time. We're meeting to talk about the Perfect Marriage by Geneva Rose. You've still got time to read it.

[Mackenzie]

And you will have plenty of time because you will not want to put it down. And I think the, the follow up book, the Perfect Divorce just came out yesterday.

[Hannah]

It just came out, like, I just saw that too. And I, I put my. I'm holding it on the library Libby app so I can listen.

[Mackenzie]

I'm ready to. I'm ready to dig into that one. So anyways, that's going to be really cool. I'm excited to talk about that and see what you guys thought of that. It's wild.

[Hannah]

Yeah. All right, so anything else? Or should we just give it to Leslie and Allison?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, let's give it to Leslie and Alison. Let's let them take it away, you guys. Okay. So we're excited for you to hear from Alison and Leslie Barbara herself.

[Hannah]

Welcome back to the show, Leslie.

[Leslie]

So happy to be back with you ladies. I missed.

[Mackenzie]

And Alison, we're so glad to have you here. Will you please just take us away? Take us on this journey.

[Allison]

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. So I am a newly single mom to a teenager. I was with my ex for 19 years. Married 15.

[Mackenzie]

Wow. And so forever to most people, forever.

[Allison]

Half of my life. I'm 39 now, so yeah, basically I went on the apps and I was ready to dive into the dating world as an adult for the first time in my life. Yeah, scary. So I did a bit of serial dating. I had fun with it. It was age range between like 27 to like 47. I didn't really know what I was doing. I was just.

[Mackenzie]

That's fair.

[Allison]

Meeting people.

[Hannah]

You want to get back out there.

[Mackenzie]

Dipping your toe in.

[Hannah]

What apps did you try?

[Allison]

I was on Hinge and I also did Bumble mainly. Hinge, though, was my main app. It was overwhelming, though. I will tell you. It was overwhelming. I went on multiple dates a week for the first month and it was getting sort of into the holidays, into Thanksgiving, and I was feeling really burnout just from going on so many dates and Just like, yeah, it's like a job.

[Hannah]

There are interviews.

[Allison]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And no one's qualified, but okay.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah, literally. The dating pool in New York City is insane, by the way, if you don't already know that. Oh, my God, it's like endless, you know, shopping for men.

[Hannah]

Well, say, yeah. What do you mean? Like, people are. I mean, I kind of know, having done some dating in New York. Is it. I felt like it was all either like finance bros or improv bros. Definitely that for sure.

[Allison]

But just like there's just so many single men. And like I said, my age range was set really wide, so it was just overwhelming. So I was reaching my breaking point a little bit to where I was like, okay, maybe I need to take a break. It's the holidays are coming. You know, I'm not really meeting guys that I want to go on a second date with necessarily. So, yeah, I was getting to the point where I was not really answering all the messages on the apps. I was kind of just getting burnt out and I'm like, you know, it's the holidays. Thanksgiving passes. It was a rough Thanksgiving was my first holiday single and I was feeling pretty emotional. In walks Brian. I matched with him and we had immediate banter and he sucked me in really quickly. He had a good looking profile. It wasn't boring. He initially messaged me with a voice note, so, you know, I hear the British accent. He's from the uk.

[Hannah]

Oh, no.

[Mackenzie]

For an accent and accents are good.

[Allison]

Exactly.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Allison]

I'm out.

[Hannah]

I've had to really work on that.

[Allison]

Yeah. Very, very polished. Very poised in the way he speaks. Very commanding. He didn't at first reveal all the things I'm going to tell you later, but it was like, enough that I felt like, chemistry. As much chemistry as you can feel with texting someone. Right?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Age.

[Hannah]

How old are we talking?

[Allison]

He's 33 and I'm 39, as I said, so big age gap. But he seemed very mature and we were vibing. It was nice. We chatted for a couple of days. Finally we set up a date and we were gonna meet. He said he had friends in town, so we were gonna meet the following Sunday. So there's a full week of us just kind of texting. And the first red flag that happened is that he actually disappeared from Hinge before he asked for my phone number. So, yeah, he just disappears from Hinge. I had a video uploaded on my profile from the gym I work at. They did like a member spotlight. He finds me on Instagram and He messages me, hey, I got logged out of my hinge and, oh, I can't get back in. But can we talk on WhatsApp? So I'm like, sure, yeah. At this point, I thought that he disappeared. And I was like, oh, man, that was a good connection.

[Hannah]

And so he did a little sleuthing, found you.

[Allison]

And he told me he didn't have social media. So then all of a sudden he has an Instagram, you know, red flags. He said he downloaded Instagram, made an account just so he could message me.

[Hannah]

That's kind of like stalker. But also, if I, if he had a British accent was hot, I could see myself being like, oh, my God.

[Allison]

He likes me so much.

[Mackenzie]

Or was he using resources to make sure he could still talk to woman that he really liked?

[Allison]

Oh, right. Yes. So I don't know yet. Yes.

[Mackenzie]

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[Allison]

We decided to switch to WhatsApp. And then I didn't give the hinge thing a second thought. He said at one point, I don't need to talk to anyone else on Hinge, like, I'm just interested in you.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, nice. Okay. That's a good feeling.

[Allison]

Yeah. So we were chatting on WhatsApp, but still hadn't met. No, haven't met. Time rolls around for a date and suddenly he has to fly to the UK for work emergency. The story also I didn't mention before is that he was a. A real estate developer from the uk, from Scotland, and basically lived in New York City for the past year in an apartment in Williamsburg, which he was in the process of selling. And it was around the holidays, so he would be back and forth to his home for the holidays. So we canceled our first date, and I was super easygoing about it. I'm like, it's okay, it's fine. Do what you need to do. He said that his property manager was in a car accident. So obviously I can't be like, oh, no, like, you canceled our date. I can't believe you did that. He said he had to go for work. Yeah.

[Hannah]

You're like, oh, wow. Because you're a nice person.

[Allison]

Yeah. And all the while he's sending me videos of the walkthroughs with these houses he's seeing, legitimizing himself as the profession he tells me that he's in. So he's in the UK and he's sending me walkthrough videos. We're FaceTiming at this point.

[Hannah]

Talking.

[Allison]

Yeah, talking all the time on the phone. Just kind of always connected. Always texting with each other. Just very, very in tune with each other. Always wanting to be connected at some. In some way, shape or form. At this point, he set up a second date with me for when he's back because he just went to the UK for a couple of days to do some work and then he's going to come back. And I also had a vacation planned for the Caribbean because It was my 39th birthday and I was going to go by myself. So I was really excited about it and I was thinking, okay, great, you come back, we'll have a date, and then I'll go on my trip. He comes back and he's like, oh, I fell ill. I'm super sick. I gotta cancel our date. I'm like, okay, this is disappointing.

[Leslie]

Oh, wow, I didn't even know this part.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah. So he tells me he's sick. He cancels a date, and I fly to the Caribbean and he tells me he's going to come to the Caribbean.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, how'd you feel about that?

[Allison]

I was like, okay, that's an epic first date. I was super excited.

[Hannah]

So were you worried at all or just.

[Allison]

I mean, he. The way he speaks is. No, I mean, I was in a hotel. Like, what's the worst that can happen? I don't know. I was being murder.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Yeah. I mean, only murder.

[Mackenzie]

It's fine. Hannah got on a. Yeah.

[Allison]

I feel like, you know, it's one of those things where it's kind of a public place. I don't know. I was being silly.

[Hannah]

You were going alone anyway.

[Allison]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I thought it was exciting. What a great first date to be in the Caribbean. So the trip then turned to being about him coming and not about me having a solo trip and finding myself and finding peace and being alone. And that's the whole purpose of it was. So that's something that will probably haunt me forever, is that I allowed him to kind of take that power from me a little bit.

[Hannah]

Well, I was just gonna ask you if there was a part of you, because I feel like I would have felt this way. That was, like, how badass of me, after the divorce to go on a new trip with a hot Scottish woman. Like, you have that need to kind of validate.

[Allison]

It was exciting. Yeah, exactly.

[Hannah]

Which is so normal.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Even though you're right. The solo empowerment.

[Allison]

Yeah. That's what we're all trying for. So. Yeah. He. Up until the morning that he was supposed to be landing. Super early in the morning, I thought he was coming. And I woke up in the morning to a text. Oh, I. I'm sick again. I can't come.

[Leslie]

Oh, geez.

[Hannah]

This.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Allison]

And at this point, you would think I would be like, okay, I'm completely done. Okay. But I need you to understand that I was in a super vulnerable position. I was just grasping onto this idea of this successful, attractive Scottish man that was gonna come and sweep me off my feet and make me feel like the most beautiful woman in the world and the most important person in his life. And it just, you know, he was giving me validation that. And now I know, in hindsight that I was just trying to ignore all the things I should be doing, like healing and, you know, mourning my merit.

[Hannah]

We say they often meet your unmet needs.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And kind of hone in on what those are and are able to focus on that.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And by focus, we mean prey on that.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Leslie]

Right.

[Allison]

And I actually did tell him at that point, I can't do this anymore. You're just. I'm on this roller coaster with you. I Want to meet you. And you keep canceling on me, and it's not nice. But he's. I can't like Leslie. You know, he. He's pretty charismatic. He kind of, like, speaks like he commands.

[Leslie]

Yeah, the accent.

[Allison]

Yeah. I don't know. And, yeah, he's just.

[Leslie]

I believed him when I first met him.

[Allison]

So he weasels his way back in, and I forgive him. And he's like, at this point, gonna be in Scotland for the rest of December because of the holidays, which is believable for me. A lot of people go back home for the holidays and stay there until the new. And I'm not talking to any other men at this point. He's just filling time and fulfilling needs of me, having a connection with someone. So we're bonding, we're talking. He's really saying all the right things to make me think that he's just this amazing person. Right. He painted himself to be this super successful, that he came from a wealthy. His family had a wealthy background. He was in, like, supercars, Lamborghinis.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah.

[Leslie]

He.

[Allison]

Yeah, he was FaceTiming me from this huge estate. And I see the house, I see inside the house.

[Hannah]

But he didn't have, like, previous marriages, kids?

[Allison]

No.

[Hannah]

Anything in that realm that's come up.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Just a wealthy family.

[Allison]

Yep. He. He talked about his sister. He talked about his family all the time, too. He said his mom was a defense attorney and she was also in property development. She had 40 something properties.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And just to give you an image, this guy doesn't look like what I'm describing. He's covered in tattoos, which I also found very appealing because I'm like, okay, this is. Tattoos are hot.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Allison]

I was into it. He wasn't like any of the guys in New York like we talked about. He wasn't a finance bro. He wasn't the cookie cutter guy. He was different. So we get through the holidays, it's New Year's, and he's finally going to fly to New York and come back home. Or so he says. Home. At this point, he tells me he's sold his Williamsburg apartment and he needs to stay in a hotel. So he books this super fancy hotel.

[Leslie]

But I think you should tell our ladies why he doesn't have the money from the proceeds of the sale of his Brooklyn apartment.

[Allison]

Yes. The money's an escrow.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Allison]

From selling his apartment. And apparently it was like a multi million dollar sale according to him.

[Leslie]

So if I can put my two cents in here.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, you give us a whole dollar perspective.

[Leslie]

Or just any perspective. When you sell your house, you get your money unless there's an IRS lien or a judgment or some court order. I mean, there are exceptions, but when you sell your house, you get your money from your house. It doesn't wind up sitting in an escrow account.

[Allison]

I didn't know. I had no idea.

[Leslie]

The springboard for.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Leslie]

Why he doesn't have money. All my millions of dollars are in escrow. So red flag.

[Hannah]

And does he. Does he go into more excuses on why they are or why it is? Or he's just like, that's just the way it is?

[Allison]

And he just said, that's the way it is. I had no idea.

[Leslie]

She didn't know, right? I didn't know I wouldn't have Leslie at the time.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So he checks into the hotel, and I'm meeting him for the first time. So I'm going. I go to the hotel. When I meet him there, like I said, he wasn't exactly what I expected, but I didn't really care about the looks at this point, because when you've matched with someone on dating apps, at first it's about physical attraction. Right. Let's be honest. But once I saw him and I saw he wasn't exactly how he looked in his photos, I just overlooked it because I felt like we had a really strong emotional connection, and that's what I cared about. So we were really bonding and connecting in the hotel. Just spent the time talking and revealing different things about ourselves. And I told him about some of my past trauma. I told him that my father had passed away from lung cancer. And in that moment, he said, oh, well, I want to tell you that I actually was diagnosed with lung cancer myself. And how. Yeah, he had part of his lobe removed surgically a few years ago. So I felt like that was a connection.

[Mackenzie]

And, yeah.

[Allison]

Yeah, we really just unloaded all of the things that you don't typically talk about with someone so quickly when you meet them, you know? So we felt like immediately. Yeah. And then the sex was good, too. Like, the sex was amazing. Know that doesn't hurt, right? And I feel like that should have been a red flag a little bit, because he was portraying himself to be kind of like this nerdy, like, quiet guy, but then in the bedroom, he was, like, the complete opposite. He was like the tattooed guy that I was like, describing.

[Mackenzie]

The bad boy.

[Allison]

The bad boy? Yeah. Like, it was like, oh, pleasantly surprised, you know? So from there, we began the journey of falling in love with each other. We were together A lot. Spent a lot of time together. And then he tells me that the hotel he had to leave because he was upset with them, because when he checked in, they swiped his card twice for $16,000. And he was using a debit card.

[Mackenzie]

The hotel cost him how much money?

[Allison]

Yeah, so he booked the hotel, he said, for a month, which was $16,000.

[Leslie]

That's weird too.

[Allison]

Yeah. So he tells me that they swiped him twice. So he's out 16,000 times two. And he was going to leave the hotel and come closer to me. At this point, my daughter's with her father, so he's very much welcome into my home. I'm allowing him into my home. And for that week, my daughter was with my ex. So I'm like, yeah, be around me. He was taking care of my dogs, he was cleaning my house. He was just being super attentive, cooking me meals. At this point, he was going with me to my gym, he's meeting my friends. He's just like getting involved in my circle and.

[Hannah]

And what's the response there? Do people like that?

[Allison]

Yeah, my friends thought that he was super sweet, just a really nice guy. And I'm like, yeah, he's like mopping my floors and he took my Christmas tree down. He's just making himself so useful and helpful that I'm just like, wow, how this guy's amazing.

[Mackenzie]

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[Allison]

So the week after he gets comes out of the hotel, the double charged him. He's staying with me, but then my daughter's coming back the following week. So he's like, so you gotta.

[Hannah]

Yeah, he's gotta hit it.

[Allison]

You gotta go. So it's time for him to go to the hotel and he's having the money issue. He says his suitcase was lost. That's another thing that happened. He says his suitcase got lost. He's showing me screenshots of the airtag saying, like, air tag, location not found. He's on the phone with the airlines in front of me, disputing his bag getting lost. Super believable. I hear another person on the line. Like, he's filling out the form of all the lost stuff in his bag. And his credit cards were in there, which is why he used a debit card to check in, by the way.

[Hannah]

Oh, okay. So he's got an excuse for everything. Bad luck.

[Allison]

And I called him out for it, and he actually ended up gaslighting me so hard about not supporting him when he was going through like. Like struggling that at the end I was apo. This is what he does.

[Hannah]

You.

[Allison]

He. I call him out and then he gaslights me. And then I'm apologizing for making him appear to be like, what he actually was.

[Mackenzie]

Classic 100%. That's what they do.

[Allison]

Yep. So at this point, he's like, I'm gonna go back to the uk. I'm gonna get my finances straight, this and that. And he's super abrupt about it. And obviously I got upset and I started crying and I'm like, I really wish you weren't gonna leave, especially just so on a whim, unannounced, you're just gonna leave. And I started crying, and he was like, oh, okay. I'm sorry. I didn't want to upset you. I'll stay. I'll stay, I'll stay. I'll figure it out. I'll. So he goes to this hotel, and he's sitting in the lobby, and I'm texting with him. I'm like, driving my daughter somewhere, and I'm like, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna pay for your room because you don't have your credit cards? He's like, don't worry. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. So hours and hours go by, and I don't offer to help at this point, but then he's like, it's like 11pm and he's like, oh, I. I think that they're gonna kick me out of the lobby of the hotel. And I'm like, oh, my God, you're gonna be on the streets. Like, you can't come to my house. My daughter's here. Like, I'm 100% not letting you here. So I'm like, fine, I'll put my credit card down for one night. And then you get your shit together and have, like, your parents or somebody put their card down tomorrow morning.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I was like, where are his wealthy parents?

[Allison]

Because it's a time difference. He said that they weren't answering, and it was just like, the middle of the night there.

[Mackenzie]

Right?

[Hannah]

I'll give it to him.

[Allison]

So I go to the hotel, and they're like, I need your id. So I go to my wallet where my. I didn't. My driver's license always is. Like, nowadays, you don't really pull your ID out very often. It stays in my wallet. I have no reason to remove it, and it's gone. I'm like, whoa, that's weird.

[Hannah]

Wait, it wasn't in your wallet?

[Allison]

My driver's license, gone. So I was super weirded out by that. So I have this super long conversation with the front desk guy. I'm like, putting my credit card down. He's gonna change the payment tomorrow morning. Like, 100%. Only one night. It needs to be changed to his card tomorrow.

[Leslie]

Did you ask him, like, when you. When you opened up your wallet and your driver's license was not inside, did you say, have you seen this? What did you think? That second?

[Allison]

Like, that second. I was immediately. Because I'm always just very skeptical of people anyway. And at this point, when he was welcomed into my house, I had already put My diamonds in my safe, and then my driver's license disappeared. I was skeptical of him, and I, the next day, locked my credit. Because at this point, I'm like, this guy has my id. All he has to do is go into a bank branch.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, okay, you guys, locking your credit is a great. If you even think. If you're. The minute, you're like, where's my id? Where's my credit card? You can call the credit bureaus. You can lock your credit. You can do all of that. So. And it's. I think it's free, isn't it?

[Allison]

I pay for the version, but there is a free version. I like. I got the most expensive one. I'm like, I can't risk it.

[Mackenzie]

Gotcha. No, I don't blame you.

[Allison]

But, yeah. So at this point, okay, I put my credit card down. I say I'm paying for one night. Simultaneously, I get super, super sick. And the conspiracy theorist of me wants to say that he would, like, I do not get sick, okay? I'm super healthy. I'm super into health and fitness.

[Mackenzie]

Ironclad stomach.

[Allison]

Yeah. Like, I never.

[Hannah]

You work at a gym.

[Allison]

I never get sick. And he. I, Like, I wanted to say that he, like, somehow inflicted this illness on me. Like, I ended up in the hospital. Like, I needed him.

[Mackenzie]

Intuition. That's your femtuition screaming at you, saying, something's bad happening.

[Allison]

Something bad. Yeah. Like, I had Covid, but my lungs were inflamed to where I couldn't even breathe. Like, it was the most painful thing I've ever felt in my life. I couldn't even cough talk. It was just excruciating pain. I'm like, what did he give me to make me this?

[Leslie]

Like, another. We never talked about that.

[Allison]

In other words, I'm like, He was always making me tea. Like, because, you know, he's from the uk. Like, they, like, they like tea. And he's, like, always giving me hot tea. Like, what the hell did he put.

[Mackenzie]

Would you like some tea with some drugs in it?

[Allison]

Exactly.

[Mackenzie]

He giving you some high tea for sure.

[Allison]

I'm not ruling it out. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm not ruling it out. So I don't care about my credit card at this point. Like, I'm in the hospital. That's the last thing on my mind.

[Leslie]

Trying to breathe. Right?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Allison]

But he somehow manipulated and convinced the hotel staff to leave my credit card on file. And all of a sudden, I've got $2,500 of charges on my credit card.

[Hannah]

Oh, boy.

[Allison]

And he's like, oh, they were supposed to switch it. I'm gonna pay you back. He starts sending me screenshots of wire transfers, and it's like, oh, it's coming from the uk, so there's gonna be a delay. So there's. It's like five days go by and.

[Hannah]

You'Re still in the hospital.

[Allison]

No, I'm home, but I'm super sick. And he's fully taking care of me. Like, I'm so dependent on him at this point. I can't move. I can't get out of bed. I'm so sick. Wow.

[Hannah]

So, okay, so you're like, all right, the money's coming. I can't even think about that.

[Allison]

Yeah, exactly. Like, that's the last thing in my mind. I just want to be healthy. But enough time goes by where I'm like, okay, man, just give me my money, you know? He does end up sending me $1,000. And I'm like, okay, but only a thousand came in. Like, where's the rest of it? Oh, I didn't change the amount. It defaults to a thousand. And I'm sorry, I'll get it back to you. But at this point, I'm ordering Uber eats. He's basically living in my apartment. Every week that my daughter's not here, he's drinking my drinks and eating my food. I'm like, paying for his transportation, like on the subway and the path. Uber eats on the train.

[Hannah]

Wait, where is he living the weeks your daughter is there.

[Allison]

So at this point, it was. This is only within, like a two week span. So he lives with me for a week, then he goes to the hotel for a week. Then I get super sick. He's telling me he's gonna pay me back. Okay. He accidentally meets my daughter. I'm still super sick, and he is sitting on my couch. And my daughter's dad lives really close to me, so she has full access to both of us. She can just walk between our houses. She needed to come get something. She uses her key. She walks in and he's sitting there. She comes unannounced, as, you know, teenagers do.

[Hannah]

She's 14.

[Allison]

Yeah, exactly. She had no idea that I would, like, have a guy there. And she knew about him. She knew about Brian. Like, I'm super open with her. She knew I was dating. She knew about him. I think that they accidentally met on FaceTime. At one point, she walked in my room when we were on the phone and they, like, said, hi, Mistake number. I don't know. But that was a mistake. I should have been more proactive about that. And I've learned my lesson. But. So they meet and he immediately bonds with her. And I'm like, okay, you guys have met. At this point, okay, fine. She wanted to be at my house, so we watched a movie together. And he just found ways to really connect with her over movies and music. And at that point, it just spiraled. You know, they were. They just knew each other at that point. And at the same time, I was super sick. I ended up in the hospital again. And then we were checking out and I went to go. They made me pay when I was leaving, like my co pay. And I went to look for my amex and it was gone out of my wallet. And I'm like. At this point, I knew it was him, like a hundred percent knew he took it. And I just kind of played it off. I didn't have the energy to question him. And he's like, oh, I found it. Look, it fell. It fell in your bag.

[Hannah]

It fell.

[Mackenzie]

It was in my sock. How did that happen? Weird.

[Allison]

Yeah. How did that happen? Yeah. So I knew, like, I knew something was up for sure. So I finally get.

[Hannah]

And you. I just. Your license. Had. You found that? Yeah, he had like, license. Found that on the floor too, or that was still missing.

[Allison]

License was gone. He never confessed to it and I never asked him directly, but it was just kind of like one of those things where like, he knew I knew. You know, it gets a little scary, right?

[Leslie]

I mean, now we're kind of bordering in hindsight, right? I mean, she's. She's like deathly ill, in and out of the hospital. Can't really fend for herself. She knows she's onto him. He knows she's onto him. They're living together. Scary.

[Allison]

Yeah. And I don't have any family up here for support. I didn't tell my friends exactly all the drama that was going on because I didn't want them to not like him or something. And he was.

[Hannah]

Yeah, out.

[Allison]

You know, it's like one of those things. So I was just kind of ignoring all the red flags. And he was actually also, simultaneously, while I was sick, saying he was buying a house in a penthouse in Soho and he was also purchasing a Porsche.

[Hannah]

And with what funds?

[Allison]

I mean, he made himself out to be this super rich guy that had no access to money in the US.

[Leslie]

But he was going to buy it from the escrow fund. In other words, he sold the apartment. He sold the apartment. The money was in escrow. According to his narrative. And that was going to be used to make the purchase, right?

[Allison]

Yep. But at this point, he has not paid me back. Also, at the same time, he has told me that we're going to a wedding in the UK for his tattoo artist friend who does like celebrities. And he's. He's selling me all these stories which I really could care less about, which is why I didn't dive in. But we're going to this wedding. He shows me plane ticket screenshots with first class tickets, hotel bookings with this super expensive hotel and a suite. And there's gonna be influencers and, like, footballers at the wedding. And he makes himself out to be this, like, socialite. Okay. And I did try to Google him and nothing was coming up on Google, but I just figured it's because it was like uk, like, it's whatever. So first he says he's going to buy a Porsche that I can use. So I get introduced to this Porsche dealer who I did look up on LinkedIn. He was legitimate and he linked him up with me because I was going to be driving it and he was going to use the Connect app. So I even got a link with the VIN number of the car he was going to buy so that I could create an account for myself on the app.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So I'm in contact with this sales rep to get the app downloaded because I will be driving this vehicle. And he says I paid for the car already, but he kept putting it on the car salesman. He's like, oh. He keeps telling me it's not ready or this or that. And finally I'm like, I'm sick of being pulled around because I gotta drive my daughter to her sports this weekend. Like, you told me the car's gonna be here. So I literally picked up the phone and I called the guy at Porsche and I'm like, hey, what's going on with the car? He's like, oh, yeah, I'm just waiting for the cashier's check.

[Hannah]

Oh, that's what he was waiting for.

[Allison]

I'm like, oh, so it's not paid for? And he's like, no. So that's actually the time that he hadn't paid me back the 2,500. And then I found out the car was not legit. That's when I broke up with him. And then a few days go by where.

[Hannah]

Wait, wait, wait. Tell me what happened when you broke up with him. What did you say? What did he say?

[Allison]

Yeah, it was basically like, hey, you lied about the car and all these other things are happening. You haven't paid me back. Like, I just. Something's not right. I don't feel like this is right. I just think that we need to go our separate ways.

[Hannah]

And I was just like, was that in person?

[Allison]

I text him and he would not stop calling me and texting me. And finally I was like, I don't ever want to see you again. I'm going to put all your stuff downstairs. So I packed all of his stuff and I put it downstairs because at this point, he was, like, basically living with me.

[Hannah]

Wow. So you were like, wipe your hands clean of this guy. Was he apologizing, making excuses, or was he angry?

[Allison]

No, he was apologizing.

[Mackenzie]

But in your mind, you were totally over it. Like, you were like, f this guy? Like, yeah, I was.

[Allison]

But then after a couple of days, it started setting in. I'm like, well, maybe I should hear him out. Maybe I should hear him out. I was really missing him. It was just all so chaotic, you know? And he was texting me all these proof that he had booked the hotels and the flights to London and that the whole car thing, he was just trying to get his finances in order. And I just blew it out of proportion and gaslighting me again. And then all of a sudden, I was apologizing. So he was legitimizing himself with the guy at Porsche. And then at the same time as the whole car stuff, he was telling me he's buying a house in Soho and this super successful real estate agent was helping him buy it. So at this point, I break up with him, then I forgive him. He weasels his way back in.

[Hannah]

Wait, I have a question. Do you, like, go to coffee and say, like, okay, I'll hear your side of the street? Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Like, how does that go?

[Hannah]

Does he come over, paint the scene?

[Allison]

Okay, no, it's not as glamorous as that. He made it out to seem like he was basically homeless. And which is why I was like. He's like, I have nowhere to stay.

[Mackenzie]

He wants you to feel sorry for him.

[Allison]

I don't have any money. I felt sorry. So sorry for her.

[Leslie]

Well, I mean, right? Is there, like, a problem where you're like, you can't. You can't put a roof over your head. You're homeless. You can't pay me $1,000. I'm buying a Porsche and a $5 million?

[Hannah]

Something's not quite balancing out.

[Allison]

It's like a million red flags. I'm so upset with myself.

[Hannah]

Just know that this is very common and for every person that shames you for whatever, there's a whole group of listeners here that are really passionate about focusing on the abusive behavior. Because no matter what red flags you overlook, you don't deserve that. And also, there's reasons to overlook red flags. Like, there's reasons. Some of them are your strengths. You might be a really beautiful, wonderful, kind person.

[Mackenzie]

And sometimes things don't seem like a red flag until they do.

[Leslie]

They didn't until in hindsight. But I'll tell you something, no shaming, because listen to. Go back and listen to the podcast that I gave a few months ago.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Leslie]

Because I missed a lot of those flags myself. I walked right into it.

[Allison]

Yeah. It's like you have rose colored goggles on and you just overlook all these negative things because there's this wonderful person presenting themselves in front of you. And this life. He was presenting this life. Like, I'm thinking, I never thought I would live in a. A penthouse in Soho. Like, yeah, say more. Say more. Right? Yes. You know, and I'm not like, materialistic like that, but at the same time, I'm like, okay, this is. This is nice.

[Hannah]

So it would be nice if you're in a relationship, then you know that sometimes it gets super, super busy and you don't have time to communicate. I feel like that happens to me and my boyfriend all the time. And I don't have kids and we're not married, so I don't know how some of y'all do it, but the Paired app has been very helpful for us. So Paired is an app for couples who want to strengthen their relationship. It basically just prompts you and your partner to have fun or important conversations. You both download the app, pair it together, and every day, Paired gives you personalized questions, quizzes, or even games to stay connected and deepen your conversations. Now you might be like, hannah, I don't have time for that. You do. They're so quick. You can do one quiz that takes two minutes. You don't have to do them at the same time. And what's fun is sometimes I'll see the notification that my partner did it, and then we compare answers. And like, we had one that was all about, what are things that your partner would like? And it's like, would they rather you bring them flowers or bring them chocolates? Would you rather bring them this or that? Like, it was very light stuff, but.

[Allison]

We both got a lot of them wrong.

[Hannah]

And we actually had so much fun talking through the answers because I was like, well, you know, I Do love chocolate. And I wouldn't say no to chocolate, but flowers indicate this kind of thoughtfulness. Because you took note of my favorite flower. Like, you know what I mean? Like, we. It wasn't that we aren't meant to be together. It just prompted this fun conversation about what we like and why we made those choices. They've got conversation starters for financial things, past relationship trauma that you might have had trouble bringing up without a prompt. It makes it easy to start conversations sometimes that maybe you don't know how to start or it's just really fun. Some of it's kind of spicy. Maybe you talk about something that you would like to happen in the spice department that you didn't bring up until it made you think about it. I think it brings people closer together and it makes time daily to connect, which is so, so, so important. So head to pear.comdatingdetives to get a seven day free trial and 25% off if you sign up for a subscription. Just head to P-A-I-R-E-D.com datingdetectives to sign up today.

[Allison]

So he introduces me to this super successful, who I googled, real estate agent in New York City. We go and we see this apartment and I'm still not fully invested, which really frustrated him because he was painting this picture of this life where he wanted us to live in this house and have this fancy car and, you know, do all this travel. And I wasn't fully investing. Like I wasn't fully believing it. And it drove him crazy that I was just kind of like, like not not believing him.

[Hannah]

I was just always making comments, signing the papers. Like you.

[Allison]

Yeah. I just didn't.

[Hannah]

Single mom.

[Allison]

I'm like, this is too good to be true. That's what I kept saying. It's too good to be true. And he did not like that at all because I was not falling for it 100%. He wanted me to.

[Hannah]

He didn't like that because you were right.

[Allison]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I see the house and then he's like, I'm doing all the paperwork. Here's the docusign. Like here's shows me the actual names of the people selling the house. Okay. The real estate agent literally took the house off the market. It said under contract.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Allison]

In his newsletter that he sold this address. Like it was legit. Like it looked legit. It was online. Like, this house is sold.

[Leslie]

We have an app. I don't know if it's in California, but we have an app, Street Easy. And it's like every apartment, every building and it says if it's on market, off market, pending tracked. So if you go on it said in contract, like it was taken off.

[Allison]

Yeah. And so in my mind I'm thinking, wow, this is too good to be true. But then like how, how is this house off the market if it's too good to be true? Like this has to be true. You wouldn't just. They don't just do that.

[Leslie]

No, there was a real estate contract that's real, that's what happens. So I come into the story when I get a phone call from an attorney that gives me a fair amount of work and we'll just call him Mr. X. So the real estate broker is a referral source to this real estate attorney. That's a referral source to me. So I'll call Mr. X. He is in the high net worth space, a list celebrities, the rich and the famous. So he calls me and he said I'm sending over a client, he's buying a $5 million condo, we're closing in four weeks, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's got a girlfriend and they're going to want to do some sort of cohabitation agreement because Makes sense, right? So he meets Allison, she's going to move in. We've talked about this in my prior podcast. Not a great idea to people who are not married to just move into million dollar like what's going to willy.

[Hannah]

Nilly out an agreement.

[Leslie]

So I get the call from Mr. X and I'm talking a list is like Bradley Cooper, Beyonce. This is the league that wow.

[Hannah]

I when he goes into contract, is there any kind of verification on somebody's background? Can they move forward on that without seeing any.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, that's a good question.

[Leslie]

Well, when you start working with your real estate attorney at some point it's a come to Jesus moment. The check, remember the cashier's check, you got to write the payment check. So at that moment, if that doesn't happen, then nothing else happens. Right. Nobody's buying the $5 million condo without the $5 million.

[Allison]

But he must have been sending some kind of fake stuff to the real estate agent to make it believable.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, there has to be something.

[Leslie]

In retrospect, we found out that he did do that. So I just get the referral. He comes in that afternoon, right. I speak to the lawyer, I get in touch with Brian, Brian comes in, you know, he's got the accent. Trust fund baby. Came from a very legitimate attorney refer who I do business with for years He's a friend. Everything's always real with Mr. X. And so say, okay, I can do this for you. No problem. We connect. He's going to hire me. I said, we can have a retainer. And he takes the retainer agreement. Instead of signing and paying, he goes, okay, I'm going to take this home. I'm just going to look. Right? And by the way, that has happened.

[Allison]

Right?

[Leslie]

That has happened. Some people just want to go home and read the retainer agreement or go through it. So he does one of those. And I am aware of that. Like, I did notice that kind of out the door. And so I get in touch with him, we follow up, and he said, listen, I had an argument with Alison. I don't think. I don't think we're going to go forward on this.

[Allison]

It's when I broke up with him.

[Leslie]

Right, Right.

[Allison]

So this is.

[Hannah]

Right, because you were like, this is weird.

[Leslie]

So he didn't say, you know, I got dumped because I stole her money and she, you know, full of crap. So he's just like, oh, we had an argument. So then he says to me, but she's getting a divorce, and maybe you could be her divorce lawyer. And I'm like, well, I can't represent you to negotiate a deal with her and then represent Allison, too, at the same time. So he says to me, just take care of Allison. Just do Allison's divorce, but I'm gonna pay for it.

[Allison]

Which I was so apprehensive about. I'm like, I don't think you should do that. Like, I was so apprehensive, Leslie, about that. I was not fully on board because I just thought it was weird.

[Leslie]

But by the way, it's not. You know, a lot of people going through a divorce, it could be very, very expensive. Sorry.

[Allison]

Yeah, no, it.

[Leslie]

A hundred percent is very expensive, depending on what's going on. Extremely expensive. And a lot of people go to their family, friends for financial assistance to help them subsidize the litigation. So it wasn't crazy. So then I meet Alison, and the three of us are together. I bring one of my attorneys in for the meeting, and we all connect. Like, she wants to hire me. We're good, you know, and then she signs the retainer agreement because you have to hit the.

[Allison]

I sign it right there. I'm like, sure, I'll sign it.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Leslie]

I like you, you know, so here we go. So she signs a retainer agreement, and then you have to pay. So.

[Allison]

Which I thought he already did. He told me he already Paid you.

[Leslie]

So he kind of runs out of the room again. He said to me, he goes, I'm going to email you my credit card information tomorrow. So of course, tomorrow comes, I don't get the credit card. So then a few days go by, and I'm like, you know, because I do have a busy practice in other cases. But I'm like, oh, wait. And I text him. I'm like, did you send in the credit card? Because as soon as you do, we're good to go. I'm going to send a letter. An attorney's letter.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Leslie]

So he emails the credit card information, he fills out the form, and whoopsie, he misses and forgets to complete the CV code. So I'm like, okay, I've seen that happen, too. So I'm like, all right, Brian, you need to fill these digits out and then just get back to me. So that takes two days. So then we get it, and then when. When we run it through accounting. And apparently the card expired that day.

[Allison]

What? Coincidentally.

[Leslie]

So that doesn't go through. So then he says, well, I have it on my Apple phone, and I could do this, and you could digitally imprint it. And I'm, you know, I'm a businesswoman and we deal with tech. And I'm like, I have no idea what the heck you're talking about. I don't even know what you're saying anymore. So then he's like, all right, well, maybe the best thing to do is to send a wire. And then at that point, my associate Nicole says to me, this dude doesn't have another credit card. He only has one credit card.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, he's got a zillion dollars. Has one card, only one card.

[Leslie]

So. All right, so we'll do a wire. So then he starts doing with the wire, and then I get this thing, which is a wire thing, from this bank, private banker.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, God.

[Leslie]

In the uk, saying, great, thanks for letting me know. I've arranged the transfer of 10,000 to the following account. Blah, blah, blah, just give it two days.

[Allison]

So I'm thinking, and did it look.

[Hannah]

Standard, like what you're used to?

[Leslie]

I mean, there would be no reason for me to think. Actually, if I do look at the wires, they are usually different, but this was like an email from a private banker.

[Hannah]

Yeah, you're not gonna, like, go through and put it side by side with every other payment you've ever had, so.

[Leslie]

And I don't run accounting, but I work a lot with the guy who runs our accounting. He's terrific. And we're doing a lot of money, right? So I'm like, did we get that? And he said, oh, we just got this, so it should be fine, you know? And then at that point, I call up the real estate attorney who sent me the case. It was Friday, February 21st, so it's.

[Hannah]

Been a few weeks since you.

[Leslie]

Right. So, yeah, I call up the real estate attorney and we do business together in a lot of cases. So I'm like, what about this? What about that? And I go, and this guy said, I'm waiting for the wire. He goes, oh, my God, he's full of shit. I forgot to tell you.

[Allison]

Talking about.

[Leslie]

He goes, he's never gonna pay you. Forget about it. He, you know, never came up with the money for the contract. I said, but I have a. I have a wire thing. He goes, yeah, I got the same one. Money's not coming.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God. So he just wants to see how far people will work for free.

[Leslie]

So then, then, like, I think we're.

[Allison]

Both like, same time.

[Leslie]

Like the same time. We reach out to each other and we're like some. I said, I just.

[Allison]

I said, something's not right, Allison.

[Leslie]

Something's really wrong.

[Allison]

So unbeknownst to Leslie in those weeks where she's trying to figure out payment with him, I'm getting just more and more sketched out by his behavior. So as I said, Google was not giving me any answers at this point. I had a puppy cam in my house because I have two nine month old dachshunds.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Allison]

And so I had a puppy cam on them. And I was, like I said, skeptical of him and he didn't know that I looked at the camera. So he's in my home, I just happen to look at the camera and he's on a call with a girl. Like, I can clearly tell he's talking to a girl. The way he's just being super flirty in the conversation. You can just tell. And then he starts talking about going and picking up the Porsche. And I'm like, wait a second. That's what you're doing with me?

[Leslie]

Like, she's getting a Porsche too.

[Allison]

Yeah, exactly. So I'm watching him on the camera, I see him talking to this girl. He says, oh, she's just a friend. This and that. Obviously, I don't believe him. After he found out I was watching him on the camera, he would have fake work calls where I could see him talking. But, like, who knows? He's probably just talking to himself. Like, like acting like he's talking. Like Contractors and stuff. It was actually kind of comical.

[Hannah]

So you confronted him and he.

[Allison]

Yeah, I confronted him, obviously. And all this kind of came to a head at the same time. Leslie found out he wasn't legit at the same time as other attorney. The real estate agent obviously was like, okay, the funds aren't coming in. This house isn't actually selling, mind you. The real estate agent actually became friends with him. They were like going to lunch together, bonding over cars. Like, he made a lot of people feel ridiculous. It's embarrassing, honestly, for all of us.

[Hannah]

This was the real estate agent you.

[Allison]

Knew, the one I met. He became friends with him or.

[Leslie]

I mean, the real estate agent is the feed to the real estate attorney.

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Allison]

Yeah. So I don't know that the lies are catching up with him with Leslie and the attorney and the real estate agent, but I am feeling uneasy. And then everything comes to a head. On the same Friday that I eventually get the call from Leslie, the Friday we both became suspicious of him. He said he supposedly had two dogs on the Upper east side staying with his brother's sister in law who I kept asking to meet, honestly, like, we were supposed to go get the dog so many times that he canceled. So he's promising my daughter that we're gonna go pick up his dogs. He cancels yet again. And my daughter looks at me and she's like, mom, something is not right. And I already knew it. But for her to say that to me, like, something's off. I'm like, okay, let's figure this out right now. Google wasn't telling me shit. Google told me nothing. But I had a feeling he was lying about something like his name or where he's from, something like that. So I went through his stuff and I found his passport. Turns out he was lying about his name. It wasn't a huge difference, but it was just a little different from the name he had told me. And I got the exact region he was from and I went on ChatGPT, put his name and where he was from immediately. Convicted of fraud. Sentenced to 40 months in prison for fraudulently selling a supercar. Like, hotel fraud. I think that he did not lie about his mom being a defense attorney. I think she got everything wiped off Google. But nothing is stronger than AI. AI was like, let me find out what's going on. And it gave in two seconds. It told me that he was a con artist, basically.

[Hannah]

And this was all in the UK.

[Allison]

Though, the UK articles. But like mugshot, like scary mugshot.

[Leslie]

This was more than either of us thought. Like, in other words, he was sentenced to 40 months in prison for two independent scams, one of which was a hotel scam.

[Allison]

Skin. Which, by the way, I think he did scam the hotel when he first came to New York. I think that they did. He did convince him that they double charged him with fake bank transfers. And I'm pretty sure they refunded him. I'm pretty sure. And that's probably what he did in the UK as well. Like, it's a scam. He does.

[Leslie]

And you double charge me making, you know, concocting fake records papers. And then they're like, oh, we're sorry. And then, then here's your credit. And then they give him money. And it was all, wow. And so part of his crimes was skipping out on hotels, owing over 11, €000.

[Mackenzie]

Right?

[Leslie]

Was that.

[Allison]

Yeah, 11, €000. And then he pretended to sell a car for 80, €000 that he didn't own. Right. Yeah. I literally found this out while he was in my house. My daughter's sitting next to me on the couch. I had to pretend like nothing was wrong as he left for, like, a haircut. And he is so intuitive. Like, I was putting on my best act. Okay. Which isn't great, I'm sure, but I thought I did a good job of pretending nothing was wrong. But he, like, intuitively knew. He's like, is everything okay? I'm like, yeah, yeah, everything's fine. Don't enjoy your haircut. He walks out. I lock my door, I call the police, I pack his shit, I text him. I'm like, watching his location at the very second when I knew he was coming back. At this point, I had the police at my house filing a police report.

[Hannah]

Oh, good.

[Allison]

Good stuff. I sent him the link, and I'm like, I know everything. I don't ever want to see you again. Send him, like, his mug shot.

[Hannah]

Oh, my goodness.

[Mackenzie]

What?

[Hannah]

So what happens next?

[Allison]

Of course he's denying it.

[Mackenzie]

Deny, deny, deny.

[Hannah]

How do you deny the photo of a mugshot and.

[Mackenzie]

Because if you say it's the illusory truth effect, the more you say it, the more it's true.

[Hannah]

Right?

[Allison]

How. How would I be here?

[Hannah]

But I want to hear what he said.

[Allison]

How would I be here if I was convicted? Like, they dropped all my charges, and I literally was like, I don't care. I don't ever want to talk to you again. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, he still owes me $2,500.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And then Leslie calls me, and so I share with her everything I've found.

[Leslie]

So when we finally realize what's happening, we reach out to each other. And she had an appointment to come in to start with her divorce. Of course, you know, the money hadn't arrived and he hadn't paid, and we were. I'm just like, you know what? Just come to my office anyway, no matter what. We need to talk. I was like, I'm not leaving. Like, she hadn't retained me. Right. She's not my client pay. But I was just like, no, no, no, no. I'm not leaving her hanging out to dry. I was like, come to my office. We're going to talk. We're going to. Because I didn't know what he was. I didn't know if he was standing around the corner stalking her. I didn't know that she was safe. I didn't know anything.

[Allison]

Leslie helped me. She didn't have to either. You know, she was out of the goodness of her heart, felt like she wanted to help me so that I wasn't in danger. And, you know, this guy manipulated and did this to me and also her, you know, he manipulated you as well. And I'm so thankful to Leslie.

[Leslie]

I think Allison did the right thing because she came right to see me. And we brought in my team. I have former district attorneys on my team. And we made a plan for that.

[Mackenzie]

That's amazing.

[Leslie]

First of all, we wanted to file a police report. We wanted to make sure that security on her building. Right. So she has a residential apartment and a work office. And there's security for. You can't enter either without getting buzzed in or passing through security, that they were each given a picture of him. So they knew not to let him up. And then the next thing we were talking about is whether or not we were going to file for an order of protection. But the question is, what's creepy and what's a crime? So you did have a larceny here.

[Mackenzie]

Creepy versus crime. Oh, I'm going to write that down.

[Leslie]

Creepy versus crime. We have a great creepy. We have the king of creepy. Oh, yeah, with the. Oh, the tattoo.

[Allison]

Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

What, did he get a tattoo of yours?

[Allison]

Oh, man. Honestly, I think what he did is worse.

[Leslie]

It's actually.

[Hannah]

Why.

[Allison]

Why? Yeah, he's just like. He's still on this kick of I'm so in love with you. Like, you've. He's written me multiple handwritten letters about how much he loves me after. Yeah, like, after the police situation. Like, I'M like, I done with you. I'm literally done with you. I've told him I have no interest in you. I'm moving on. You hurt me so much. I said my piece. He's still confessing his love. Like, I wrote him one time, he was at the hotel and I sent him dinner, and I wrote in a little post it, like, love you, Brian. Xoxo with my horrible handwriting. My handwriting's God awful. So he sends me a photo that he literally got my handwriting of that post it tattooed on his arm. Like, I'm not talking. Like a hidden place. Like, it's on his arm where you can just see it plain as day.

[Hannah]

Oh, my. Yeah, after you threw him out and.

[Allison]

Told him it's over, had the police involved, I think he's just, like, doing everything he can to try to get back in my life. And so he brings me these love letters. He brings me my money. He actually paid me back $2,500 in cash. And I think he only did it because he knew that was the only way I was gonna see him. So at this point, we've. After he paid me back, I said, I don't ever want to hear from you again.

[Leslie]

And now you completely cut off. You've cut off.

[Allison]

Yeah, he sent a couple more like, I love you. You're the best thing that's ever happened to me. You're the loss of my life, all, you know, this and that. But he's actually been true to his word, and he hasn't reached out since he said, like, his piece. And he didn't give me truth because he showed up on a random motorcycle and had a whole new wardrobe. I'm like, how did you get that? You know, he's not going to tell me the truth, so what's the point of this point? So, yeah, I haven't heard from him since, and I'm still cautious and just, you know, taking. If anything, any more red flags happen. Like, Leslie and I are in touch, right?

[Leslie]

And the police are notified. We have a police report. I mean, you know, at this point, to get an order of protection, you need, like, some sort of offense that's committed, right? What? What? Like, immediate offenses. Like if he. If he violates the security and he's, like, standing outside her apartment door. Order of protection. But at this point, the better avenue would be to possibly go to the FBI or to law enforcement and say, here's this person who's done this to me, who has a history of doing it to other people in the UK and Maybe you want to look at this person.

[Mackenzie]

Mm.

[Allison]

And I did try to reach out to law enforcement in the UK And I think that his case just got dropped. He did tell me that the way he got arrested was that he was in the US he came back to the UK from the US and he got arrested on site, and then he never got convicted. So he somehow got off. Probably his attorney mom got him off, but he was.

[Leslie]

Didn't he say he was sentenced or. He was.

[Allison]

I mean, he was sentenced, but he never. He never did time in prison. He, like, went to jail, but not actual, like, prison. Right, right.

[Hannah]

He was like, so how's he going back and forth? I mean, I guess if he really got off, then he's fine. But to me, I'm like, okay, he's not going back to the UK.

[Allison]

Yeah, I don't think he is. He's out there, though. He's doing this to other people, which is why I'm doing this in the first place. Obviously, I feel a lot of shame around what happened to me, but at the same time, it's a learning lesson. And I also want to share my story so that it doesn't happen to other people. And maybe someone that he's doing the same exact thing to right this second will hear this and be like, wait, he told me he's buying me a Porsche. You know, he put a tattoo of.

[Leslie]

My post it note on the other arm.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Or he has the tattoo and he said it was Grandma says his dead.

[Allison]

Yeah, my mom died. And that's what her. The last thing she wrote to me.

[Hannah]

Because your name's not on it. Your face isn't on it. It could be anybody.

[Mackenzie]

Wow.

[Hannah]

I didn't even think about that. Okay, wait, so where. So we're.

[Allison]

We're.

[Hannah]

I want to go back to this timeline. You guys have your meeting.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

You get your money, you tell him to stay away.

[Leslie]

And now he's away.

[Allison]

Right now he hasn't.

[Hannah]

This is it. Yeah, that's it. Oh, my God.

[Allison]

Okay. And I did not block him.

[Hannah]

When did this happen?

[Allison]

This was. The last correspondence was probably about a week ago. And I didn't block him. Leslie and I talked about this because if I blocked him, I can't see if he's harassing me. So by him being unblocked, I can see if he's actually trying. Yeah, it's almost safer to not block him, because I can see if he's actually trying to reach me. And he hasn't. He hasn't reached out. I definitely look over my shoulder. And I also have a mace and a sound alarm on my keychain. I'm very aware of the fact that he could be lurking.

[Leslie]

I mean, would you consider going to the FBI or, you know, the district attorney's office?

[Allison]

I mean, I tried to reach out to the police in the UK and they really didn't want to talk to me. But the police here, right? Yeah, the crime occurred here. But the police report I made, like, he didn't actually steal money from me because I willingly put my credit card.

[Leslie]

Down at the hotel and he returned.

[Allison]

And he returned the money. I don't have proof that he stole my driver's license, so there's not really a crime.

[Leslie]

Guess we gotta check the tea.

[Allison]

Yeah, like, can you do like a poison test on me? I don't know.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Oh, well, that's horrifying. What about all of the people he's promising to pay and then doesn't pay, like, services rendered? Like, is that a crime?

[Allison]

No.

[Leslie]

I mean, no, because he did not retain me, you know, he did not sign the real estate contract. I mean, it's.

[Hannah]

What about the survey?

[Mackenzie]

Or.

[Allison]

You said, I haven't talked to the Sir. Yeah, he had a surveyor come out. He never paid. But I didn't have that.

[Hannah]

I guess that's not. You can't, like, yeah, charge him for a crime he committed.

[Allison]

I would love to go to the hotel and be like, hey, did. Did you guys pay this guy back? But like, I don't. I just wasn't. Like, I did report him on all the apps I sent all the apps I could think of, all the phone numbers he could use, all the emails he could use, all of his photos. And the apps were very responsive and like, hey, give me all the details you can so we can get him removed. So I did do that. And then obviously I alerted Leslie and the real estate agent in the Brooklyn, the Porsche Brooklyn.

[Hannah]

It definitely sounds like this is really bad. It could have gotten really, really bad. Yeah, really bad.

[Allison]

It could have been a lot more money if I wasn't super careful. He could have stolen my jewelry, he could have stolen my identity, my credit cards. Like, I. It could have been so much worse than $2,500. I fully realize that. And that's what the listeners have to keep that in mind, is that there are so many red flags, you know, 25 red flags that happen immediately. But he's so well spoken. He could make. I'm just going to give you a quick example. I have a gym membership to this. Like Prestigious gym in my city that you live in the apartment, you get the gym membership for free. The gym membership was in my ex's name, and I could not, for the life of me, get them to switch the gym membership to my name, because they're like, sorry, no, it's in his name. Brian walked in the door without me being present and was like, hey, she lives in this apartment. She pays the rent. Give her the gym membership. And they were just like, okay, sure. Like, I had been fighting with him for weeks, and he just has this presence about him, this commanding, I don't know, charisma that just demands respect. And when you look at him, you don't think that that would be the case because he doesn't look like what he's presenting. But that's what the beauty of it was. I think of him. I don't know, Leslie.

[Leslie]

Oh. But I wanted to say something else. So when somebody retains me, they're the client. My. My relationship is with that client. Even if someone else pays, I'm not there to service someone else. The client is the client, and I have to speak to the client and in touch with the client. And I wouldn't be in touch with anyone else unless they gave me permission in writing. Right. Attorney client privilege. So Allison retained me, but when she left, I realized that I didn't have her email address. And so I was texting Brian. I was like, she's the client. I need her email address. And that was like, a whole thing. It was like, you know, five incorrect emails I was getting. But part of the reason he wasn't giving me the email is because he wanted to run the case.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Leslie]

And so then apparently he told Allison that she had to give him a power of attorney, and that.

[Mackenzie]

Don't do a power. Never do a power of attorney. Ever. Never do a power of attorney.

[Leslie]

I. I couldn't agree more. Unless it's, like, you and your grandma.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Unless it's, like, a parent or it's.

[Allison]

No.

[Mackenzie]

Never do a power of attorney.

[Leslie]

So I didn't know he was trying to do this, but his position to her was like, look, just go to work. Take care of your kid. Take care of the dog. I'll just take care of the office. And that would never, ever fly, you know?

[Allison]

Yeah, I would never. The second he said that, I'm thinking in my head, there's no way in hell I'm ever signing a power of attorney. But he really thought that I would be willing to. Right.

[Leslie]

He tried. He tried to get a power of attorney. And then he. By the way, you know what you could do with a power of attorney, depending what box you check, of course. But.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Leslie]

You could just go to the bank and be like, okay, let me just withdraw all the money. Let me just transfer the deed. Let me just transfer. Right, yeah.

[Allison]

And that's why he didn't want us to talk.

[Leslie]

So he tried to keep us separate, but I was like, that's not happening. I think, Hannah, you make a good point, which is like, this was horrible, terrible, but, boy, could it have been worse. Significantly worse. Where do we think he's putting his head on the pillow now?

[Allison]

Like, I think he's at another girl's.

[Hannah]

House, at that other girl's.

[Allison]

And he's probably getting her for a lot more money if he's got a motorcycle and a bunch of, like, a new wardrobe, you know, that's bonkers that.

[Hannah]

He could be just continuing to flash the money around using the same.

[Allison]

I'm using. I'm sure he's using the same scheme over and over again, and people are.

[Mackenzie]

Just falling for it because he's a sweet talker.

[Allison]

And, yeah, he says what you want to hear.

[Hannah]

I feel like I asked you this on the last episode. So everybody go back and re. Listen to Leslie's episode, or listen to it for the first time if you haven't. But how does somebody know that they have a good lawyer for this kind of thing? What are signs to look for if somebody's in Alison's position and they need help?

[Leslie]

Well, I think you want to go to somebody first of all in the area where the crime or the incident committed. So she's in Manhattan. Because if you're prosecuting for a crime and you're going to law enforcement, you have to go into the county where the crime occurred. So you need to have contacts there. And then if you're going to, say family court to get an order of protection, so you need an attorney that's local in the county where the incident occurred. You need to have somebody who has the background. Matrimonial and criminal. I mean, these are all romantic relationships, criminal issues, larceny. So you want somebody who's experienced in that field. I think Alice and I got lucky because we just kind of. We had chemistry, we connected, and we were both. We both.

[Hannah]

He brought you together.

[Leslie]

His worst nightmare, Silver Lighting, was, was that we met each other. And I think she also, like, at that point, Allison, really, her intuition was like, okay, I'm with somebody who's got my back. And I think that's Also important, too, that she knew I had her back.

[Allison]

And like I said, I don't have family up here. A lot of people that I could turn to. So Leslie just really made me feel like I had someone looking out for me. So I'm forever grateful for her.

[Leslie]

And then, of course, when we did meet that Monday, I was like, and by the way, you're going to be on Dating Detectives. Yes, that's right.

[Allison]

Yeah. You're like, I have the best thing for you, by the way. That is so great.

[Leslie]

And then I sent her the link to the episode that I did. I was like, listen to this. Keep listening. Which she did. And then I was just like, okay, another silver lining, right?

[Allison]

Let's do it.

[Mackenzie]

We're bringing folks together. I like it.

[Hannah]

You're going to help a lot of people, and I'm glad that you know that coming in because it's your story's. I. I'm very glad that you're here.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you, Leslie. You guys are amazing. I'm just. I'm so glad that you guys came together. Like, that's really cool, I think.

[Leslie]

And I'm glad to be back with you.

[Mackenzie]

We love you so much.

[Leslie]

Our.

[Mackenzie]

Our audience loves you, too.

[Leslie]

Thank.

[Mackenzie]

How do people get away with stuff like that so easily? I'm so mad.

[Hannah]

This is a great story because I think it's such a good example of the steps that he took to explain away his scam. And he's not yet caught, so he's.

[Mackenzie]

Still out there all willy nilly. And my concern is, like, this person has so much con. You. Do you realize how much confidence you have to have to pull off that many lies and that many scams? And the one thing that Leslie said was creepy versus crime, Is it just creepy or is it. It's. And I get that a lot because when I'm doing surveillance or something, if I see someone doing something a little weird, people are like, why don't. Why can't you just report that? Like, are you a mandated reporter? Like, no, I can't report something. Is it creepy or is it a crime? It's just creepy. Like, you can't, you know, you can't.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And it's interesting how these guys know how to sometimes keep it creepy.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Without they toe the line of criminal and just keep it creepy enough where they can get away with it. And if you do say something, it's like, well, they didn't really commit a crime, and it's awful. And that's part of the scammer in them. And it's terrible.

[Hannah]

He did some of that thing we talked about in the last episode. Dry begging. Isn't that what it's called? Dry begging? When you kind of say, like, oh, no, I don't have anywhere to stay and my money's in escrow and a normal person is going to be like.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, you can stay here. It's fine. Like, I got you. Normal people have empathy and they want to help you.

[Hannah]

But now she can't claim that he stole money from her because she put her credit down.

[Mackenzie]

And he knows that, too. I think that's part of what he. People like that know they can get away with that because they're like, well, if you offer it, then am I really the bad guy? Like, you know what I mean? It's terrible. It's.

[Hannah]

It's totally the gaslighting. I mean, you mentioned also all of our buzzwords are coming up. The illusory truth effect. Repetition works. If somebody tells you something over and over again, eventually you start to believe it's true, even if you know it's not true. Like there is. It breaks it down. And that's just science. Yeah, I'm no scientist, but that's science.

[Mackenzie]

It's a mental thing. You really start to believe, like, okay, I guess this. This must be true. Like, I must be crazy. I must be remembering it wrong, or whatever, and that it is a real thing.

[Hannah]

She was skeptical. She was intuitive. They love that, I think. I mean, nobody. I haven't talked to this guy, but I am getting the sense that these dogfish really do like preying on people, that it's harder to sk. They, like. On the surface, you would think would never fall for something like that. The minute you start thinking that you won't fall for it is the minute.

[Mackenzie]

It happens to you. The universe is giving you a gut check. And another thing that she said was when you feel like someone is scamming you, or if you're just not sure, lock your credit. That's the. Like, lock it up. And that was a big takeaway for me because a lot of people don't know you can do that. Just lock your credit up so that no one can take out loans in your name. No one can get credit. No one can rent an apartment or anything. Because you see how easily people just, like, right, Just using your name.

[Hannah]

It doesn't hurt you to do that. And you can do it for free. We're.

[Mackenzie]

It just shows that you're protecting yourself and there's no penalty or anything. You just can't. You Physically cannot get any credit. No one can.

[Hannah]

Yeah. No, that's great. And also the not ever doing a power of attorney.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah. So a power of attorney is basically a document that says, just for instance, my brother, when he. My brother's in the army for 20 something years and his wife was here with the kids, and so he gave her power of attorney. So anything that he had going on, if, like, the car was in their name and she wanted to make payment or whatever, it basically gave her the override. So if his name was on it or whatever, she's saying, I have power of attorney, which means she's acting on as him. She has the power to act as him for him on his behalf. So when you sign a power of attorney, you're saying, I trust this person to make any of these decisions for me. And that's like, don't. Don't do that ever. Never. Unless you're. It's like your mama or someone that likes you.

[Hannah]

Really, really trust AI chatgpt on the.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. How crazy is that?

[Hannah]

It found him. On the downside, scammers can use it for any damn thing they want. And I. I was just talking to somebody about. I'm sure everyone is having these conversations, like, the ethics of AI, like, what is good and what's bad, the environmental impact, the who's creating it. Like, there's so many areas of it that are confusing. I do think that it's happening. At the end of the day, we can't deny that that's where the world is going. And I want to continue learning how to feel safe with it, which I don't have the answer for, but it's a conversation we're going to keep having, if that's cool with y'all. Because it was interesting. I loved how she was able to find him with that.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I. I thought that was really well, because, like, all I've. I've done just the Google machine. But it is possible to. I mean, it's. Especially with his mom as a. She is a for real defense attorney. Like, I imagine there's ways you can get your stuff off the Internet, but chat G. I don't know. They. Apparently they can still find it. So that'd be interesting to use now as a PI like, maybe that's something I can start using.

[Hannah]

I mean. Yeah. And it's interesting and it's something we should all be aware of, that our information is easily accessible.

[Mackenzie]

Yep.

[Hannah]

But also it could be a tool for safety if you need it. Also, it's like, how accurate Is it. We don't know. There's different tools to use. Like, it's. It's a tricky one, but I. I mean, it worked in this case. And I don't know. I think it's interesting. I have two more things that I wrote down that I kind of want to talk about. One is, remember that moment when she was like, maybe I should hear him out.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Hannah]

That doesn't just happen. Yeah, it doesn't just happen in, like, dogfish situations. I wanted to hear your opinion on getting quote, unquote, closure after a breakup, because I think people have really strong opinions about whether or not that conversation is healthy or not.

[Allison]

But.

[Mackenzie]

So that's a person that's kind of like the same thing as asking, like, should I tell? That's a personal preference thing. Like, some people, like me, I need to know closure really bad.

[Hannah]

But also, like, you hyper fixate on it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, you hyper fixate on it, and it's like, you can't let it go. And then there's other people who. All they want is to let it go, and talking about it would just drive them up a wall. But also, some people are like, oh, I just really love him, though. Like, I really liked all of these aspects about him. So I hate that. I hate that he's scammed me in such a way that, like, I kind of. I want to know more. And it's hard to acknowledge the truth when you hear it a lot. And so it's like hearing it again. You need to hear, okay, let me hear him out. Like, give him a chance, you know? And I think that's so tricky.

[Hannah]

I think I rarely. I'm usually the person that's like, you know, there's two sides. I get it. But I kind of think I have a strong opinion about this.

[Mackenzie]

What is it?

[Hannah]

It's that you can't get closure from anybody else.

[Mackenzie]

So even if they accept, oh, that's good.

[Hannah]

That's what I. I've just seen so many people get convinced to give it another shot when they open up that door. And it's sometimes fine, but sometimes not. And I think even if you want to go back and talk to them about it, you can't expect their contribution to, like, change how you feel about the situation. You have to come to peace with it yourself so you can have a conversation. You just can't expect it to solve your problem.

[Mackenzie]

Yep.

[Hannah]

In my opinion.

[Mackenzie]

No, that's such a good point. Oh, my gosh. That's so valid. Like, I just.

[Hannah]

I'm thinking of so Many friends who are like, I just need that closure. And I'm like, I don't think you should talk to them.

[Mackenzie]

I don't think it's closure they need. I think they just are. They don't want to let go yet. Like, they're just like, oh, this can't be true. I don't want to let go. You know, And I feel like that can be really hard. And when someone has got a hold of your heart, it's really hard to let that person go.

[Hannah]

Oh, it's tricky.

[Mackenzie]

If you need to tell your story, please email us. Tell us what you're going through. We'll give you an ear or a platform or whatever. We would love to hear from you. And I just think the more we talk, the more other people hear and the less they feel alone. And it's that sense of community. So super important. So email us. I know the email address. Just in case you were wondering, our email address is investigate the datingdetectives podcast.com. email us your story. We'll tell it for you or give you a place to tell it and just, you know, keep those conversations going. They're really important.

[Hannah]

Notes on that. Sometimes we read stories that are emailed to us on Patreon. Oftentimes that's because maybe they're not like a. A big enough dogfish story to do a full episode on. When I say big enough, I don't mean, like, significant enough. I just mean, like, maybe it's. You went on one date with someone and it turned out that they were not who they were, but. Or they're not romantic. Like, if you have a friend, a co worker, a client, whatever it is.

[Mackenzie]

Those are dogfish too. Those can be dogfish.

[Hannah]

We want to hear. We want to hear from people who are not just women. We're open to all people dogfish. We're equal opportunity dogfish haters.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Hannah]

And you have a place, like MacKenzie said. And also just make your subject line a little bit detailed about your story so that Molly can get through them and organize them. She gets a lot of emails and she works really, really hard. So we might not respond right away, but we care about you and are grateful for you sharing those stories. Like, it's really brave and it helps people.

[Mackenzie]

Yes. So thank you guys so much for your support of. Of our show, but also of each other.

[Hannah]

We love you, so we love you. Go on Patreon. Talk to each other. I love seeing your conversations on our show.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Keep the conversation going for sure on Patreon. Also, on social. Keep sharing us on your social. We love to see that. Thank you so much for sharing our show. And I think it, again, it helps others.

[Hannah]

People were tagging us in this one Instagram post so much and I just saw that that person reached out to us. So, Molly, when we're offline, thank you guys. Your sleuths out there.

[Allison]

So just put in a se.

[Mackenzie]

And as always, you guys, trust your intuition.