Ken Undercover: The Sunset Strip Stakeout

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dating Detectives (Dear Media)
Episode: "Ken Undercover: The Sunset Strip Stakeout"
Release Date: September 8, 2025
Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz (Professional PI), Hanna Anderson (Comedian)
Special Guest: Ken Childs (Private Investigator, LA)

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Overview

In this riveting episode, professional PI Mackenzie and comedian Hanna welcome veteran Los Angeles investigator Ken Childs for a deep dive into “the wild west of dating apps” and the world of high-profile surveillance work. Ken shares insider tales from his encounters with celebrities, lessons learned after 27 years in the business, and practical tips for both aspiring investigators and those seeking safety in modern dating.

The highlight: an in-depth storytelling of Ken’s surveillance case involving a famous "Bunny Ranch" mansion in Holmby Hills, suspected infidelity, and the unique ethical and tactical challenges of following A-listers in Los Angeles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Ken—Contrasts in PI Approaches

• [00:38–03:16] The hosts introduce Ken Childs, noting different PI styles (male vs. female, California vs. Florida) and the variety of legal frameworks and personal techniques. They look forward to sharing PI perspectives that break away from TV stereotypes.

"We've both been at this for 20-plus years, which is great... there's just some differences. And we've both been at this for 20-plus years, which is great. But I—we do have some differences, which is really cool." – Mackenzie [01:29]

2. Ken’s A-lister Investigation: The Sunset Strip Stakeout

The Case Assignment

• [03:16–04:46] Ken receives a cryptic call from a "manager" for a Beverly Hills ranch associated with a high-profile, "bunny"-related magazine owner.
• The client tests Ken’s discretion about discussing past celebrity clients.

"I think it was a little bit of a test that if I would talk about my clients...I think that would have ended the conversation." – Ken [07:30]

Setting the Scene: Holmby Hills and Surveillance Challenges

• [04:55–07:14] The assignment: Discreetly determine if the girlfriend of this notable figure is cheating, as the staff suspects she disappears for hours at a time.
• Ken describes the ultra-affluent neighborhood and his initial meeting in a “dirty dive diner.”

"I was like, oh, I can't believe what I'm about to sign up for..." – Ken [06:12]

The Stakeout Sequence

• [14:37–23:04] Ken positions himself behind 20ft hedges on a narrow, no-parking street, managing to evade mansion security. His luck spikes when a tour bus full of “bunnies” distracts all eyes, and he spots the girlfriend slipping away by car.

"As I'm there, this massive tour bus shows up and then all these bikini-clad girls jump out...and I'm just sitting there like, what the fuck?" – Ken [14:37]

Following the Subject & Uncovering the Truth

• Tracks her to a brunch spot in LA ("I'm having brunch with her, I think" – Ken [18:26]), then down Sunset Boulevard, and finally up into the winding hills.
• She disappears onto a private drive that is merely marked private to keep outsiders away. Ken gets help from a security guard working a movie shoot, who leads him to the girlfriend’s hidden house.

"I point to the picture, and he lights up, and he's like, come with me." – Ken [22:52]

• From a nearby construction site, Ken films through the house’s open glass windows, confirming an intimate rendezvous with a younger man, a “super handsome, trying-to-break-in singer.”

"Here's this, like, young stud, butt naked and she's going down on him and fully enjoying themselves." – Ken [28:19]

Legal & Ethical Considerations

• [35:13–36:22] Ken explains filming from a public vantage point is legal (“If I'm where the postal person could be...and I saw what I could see, then why can I not film it?”).
• Emphasizes refusing to zoom beyond what a regular bystander would see.

3. Aftermath: Delivering the Evidence & Client Response

• [36:53–44:50] Ken meets with the manager, hands over all original footage in a mafia-style meeting in the back of a town car, and deletes every copy in front of the client to avoid risks of a leak.

"Here's your one and only copy. Play it in your device, and the second you're good, we're done...I literally deleted it off my camera. I deleted it off my laptop, like, right there in front of him." – Ken [41:16]

• The client isn’t surprised, requests more surveillance (“That’s what we expected, and we want more.” – Ken [37:13]), and Ken delivers further evidence over consecutive days.

On Relationships and Ego in Celebrity Circles

"It was probably like you could bang everybody on the ranch, just nobody outside of the ranch." – Ken [42:32] "That just goes to show you, when you have more money than God and when you have this status and when you have this staff and when you can, why not like it? Yeah, it's the image. And you have this plethora of women around you, right? But you're worried about this one." – Mackenzie [43:33]

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4. Other Noteworthy PI Tales from Ken

Handling Threats from Oligarch-Level Clients

• [43:46–48:13] Ken shares about another case involving a wealthy "oligarch" and cheating partners, successful surveillance using decoy tactics, and subsequent legal threats from angry, powerful clients.

Gender Dynamics and Surveillance Skills

• [57:49–61:11] Ken acknowledges that women often excel as investigators: “Women are definitely better at talking to people...You roll up, you smile at me, girl, what do you need to know? I got you. I roll up and they're like, hey, go f*** yourself." [59:11]

• Mackenzie: “There's some savvy, there's some moxie. You have to be smart...Your femtuition, your gut instinct has to be on point.” [58:23]

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5. Advice Corner

For Dating Safely:

• [52:43–53:59]
  • Keep initial meetings light and public (coffee).
  • Use a burner phone or Google Voice for handing out your number, increasing safety.

"Keep it light and easy. Set a coffee meeting. And if they don't show up? Done." – Ken [52:43] "It's like 10 bucks a month or whatever and you're not gonna get killed, you know, it's a good price." – Ken [53:47]

On Who Cheats More

• [54:01–54:53] Split opinion: Both agree infidelity is increasingly equal among men and women, with women getting “better at not getting caught.”

For Aspiring PIs & Industry Realities

• [55:07–56:49]
  • Get a government job first for retirement benefits, as PI work is tough and not always lucrative.
  • Real surveillance isn’t glamorous: “Following people is nothing cute like TV...” – Ken [56:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I'm Kenough." – Ken, joking about his name and Barbie associations [03:41]
• "If I'm not breaking the law, like, what have you got?" – Ken on taking new clients [04:36]
• "What do I not see?" – Ken, after witnessing a midday affair in a glass-walled house [28:00]
• "I was like, am I taking crazy pills? Like, how did I miss her?" – Ken, upon losing the subject in winding LA hills [23:45]
• "Sometimes I like being the fun guy at the bar with all the, like, million stories...and sometimes I don't want to be that moron PI." – Ken [48:44]
• "Women are definitely better at talking to people...the guard's already been dropped." – Ken [59:11]
• "You gotta have moxie. You gotta be bold. You gotta be brave...Isn't that a song? You gotta be bold. You gotta..." – Mackenzie [73:12]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:18: Ken joins, discusses his PI origin story and LA experience
• 14:37–29:02: Detailed account of the Bunny Ranch surveillance and infamous window scene
• 35:13–36:22: Legal/ethical clarifications on PI surveillance
• 36:53–44:50: Handling client responses, ethical evidence handling, and aftermath
• 54:01: Discussion on cheating demographics
• 57:49–61:11: Gender, skills, and being underestimated as a PI
• 72:34–74:29: The realities and business challenges of PI work

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Episode Takeaways

• Real PI work requires acute observation, ethics, adaptability, and integrating into surroundings ('act like you belong').
• Celebrity surveillance poses unique challenges: privacy, legal risks, managing egos, and potential retaliation from powerful clients.
• In both dating and investigations, trusting intuition, maintaining boundaries, and verifying information are key.
• The field is open to women, who bring distinct advantages in social engineering and surveillance.
• Aspiring PIs need to be prepared for an unpredictable but rewarding career path—and should consider practicalities like retirement plans.

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Connect with Ken Childs

• Instagram: @licensedpi (tentative handle)
• Paramount Investigative Services: [Website—Google to find more]

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This episode blends eye-opening PI stories with practical dating and investigative advice, highlighting both the excitement and everyday grit of uncovering secrets in the world’s most image-conscious city.

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-6-7233 for support.

[B]

Happy dating, detectives. Monday.

[A]

We have quite a guest today, a PI undercover. Well, this was fun because he works out of Los Angeles, where I live and where, you know, one or two celebrities live, but he definitely has seen some shit in the celeb space.

[B]

And by celeb, we mean we. You. Without saying the names, you're gonna know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you're gonna know. We're not gonna say who he's talking about, but yeah, you're gonna know. His name is also Ken Childs. We can tell you that because if you need a PI in la, now we know one. Ken is totally still working. And, man, I mean, it was fun to talk. At the end. We do the story first and then we did ask him some questions about being a PI and it was interesting because you guys are definitely different.

[B]

Yeah, we're. Him and I. Ken and I are very different. Obviously the laws are different in Florida versus California, but we also have like, he's a man, I'm a woman. There's. There's just some differences. And we've. We've both been at this for 20 plus years, which is great. But I. We do have some differences, which is really cool. I love to hear perspectives from different PIs, so I hope that definitely different.

[A]

Perspectives on like, approaching the job, which is, yeah, like you said, interesting to hear.

[B]

I hope it helps you guys to see all the differences and how different PIs work. But totally, I'm so excited for you guys to hear from him. Also, before we forget, don't forget the Patreon. The. The Patreon. If you are on the Patreon, if you are on the nine a month tier, this is where you get just. Just totally the whole podcast, no ads. And then the $5 tier is you still get the two bonus episodes and the book club, which, by the way, the.

[A]

What's our book notebook again. I haven't started it yet.

[B]

Have you read it?

[A]

Let him in by Lisa Jewel.

[B]

And let me tell you, it is a culmination of every story that has been told. On our podcast. Wait until you get started. You're going to die.

[A]

I'm waiting until closer to we meet to when we meet because I don't want to forget details. But it will be in end of September, so you have time.

[B]

Might have to read it twice. I'm just telling you just to be like, wait, okay, what? And you might need a pencil and paper and a timeline. Okay, that's all down. But our stuff is really cool. So join. Join the Patreon if you're not. And we also thank you. We are so grateful for all the stories you send in. So if you have stories to share, email us at Investigate the Dating Detective podcast dot com. We want to hear your stories and we're grateful and I think. Let's hear from Ken.

[A]

Let's go to Ken.

[B]

Okay, let's go. Hi, Ken. Ken, we're so glad to have you here.

[A]

And this is. You kind of are giving like Ken Barbie Ken vibes. You could, you could have played Ken.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Ken is a very nice looking gentleman.

[C]

I'm Kenuff.

[A]

Kenuff.

[B]

I'm Kenuff.

[A]

You're more than enough.

[B]

I love it. Yes. So you are Kenuff. And I love. This is like Ken and Barbie. I like this. Anyways, Ken, we would love for you to take us away. And I'm curious. Normally when I tell my PI stories, I usually start them with so I got a call. Does yours start like that where I got a call from a spouse or whatever.

[C]

Yeah, so I got a call.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And it was just like a little. It was like, it was different because typically it's first person. Oh, I experienced this. I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was just like, so what do you do? And then how do you approach this situation and what's it like working or how many like a listers have you worked for? And right there I'm like, oh, here we go.

[B]

They come in with the questions, then I got more questions. I bet you had a ton.

[C]

Oh yeah, no, Well, I mean, as far as like client onboarding, I'm just like, if I'm not breaking the law, like, what have you got? You know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[C]

So I mean, I'm easy, right?

[B]

Okay, so what happened, Ken?

[A]

So they ask you about a listers. I'm sorry.

[C]

So, yeah, and I'm like, well, first off, I'm not going to tell you who I'd worked for, but I've worked for a handful of a listers.

[B]

Are we allowed to say where? You're like, where are you comfortable stating where in the world you live?

[C]

I live just above downtown la.

[B]

Oh, okay. So you're in California. Okay, cool. So la. Sweet.

[C]

Yeah. La, yeah. So I get this call and it's this really weird, dark feeling me out kind of call. But it kind of got real when it was, you know, so how are you? And the approach with like A listers and it's like, all right, well honestly I don't care. And B, don't be offended if I have no idea who you're talking about because that happens quite a bit. I mean I'm living my life, I'm not pasted TV trying to figure out who's who. Right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So we end up having some meeting at this old diner, like Dirty Dive. And I'm like, oh my gosh, am I going to get abducted? Like what the hell's going on?

[B]

I gotta get abducted.

[A]

Was it, was it a man calling you?

[C]

Okay, so it ends up being a manager of somebody that owns a ranch in Beverly Hills and the ranches, they managed bunnies back in the day.

[B]

Oh. So okay, this is a.

[A]

We're not going to say the name, but Bunnies. Could this person potentially be tied to.

[C]

An X rated magazine like Bunnies in magazines? Yes.

[A]

Okay, so yeah.

[C]

So we're sitting there and I' I don't even know if I was even listening to the guy, but everything in my mind was like, what am I doing here? Like, oh, I can't believe what I'm about to sign up for. And before I knew it, I mean it was on, it was great. Like he just, he liked me, he liked my vibe, he hired me and the next day I'm sitting there in the Holmby Hills.

[A]

What year was this?

[C]

It was a bit ago. It was a minute.

[A]

Okay. I was like. Cause when did that.

[C]

First year he's passed. That's the only reason why I'm talking about this.

[B]

Wait, you were sitting. I have so many questions already. You were sitting in the what Hills.

[C]

Holmby Hills, back in the day. That that was the place to be. I mean there's like $90 million properties there right now.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

I could be wrong, but wasn't for a time. The, the spelling mansion was like the largest is right there mansion ever. Maybe it was.

[B]

She.

[A]

She had a room dedicated to gift wrapping so she can wrap all her place.

[C]

I mean the place 15 years ago was like 90 million. Yeah.

[B]

Holy bananas.

[A]

So that's the neighborhood.

[B]

Okay, so this was quite a bit ago and this is in a very affluent area and someone Called you and said, I want to know what your experience is with A listers. Like, were they trying to find out if they could count on you to do, like, a list?

[C]

Yeah, I think it was a little bit of a test that if I would talk about my clients. Oh, if I suddenly, like, name dropped, like, oh, I'm with. You know, I've done this with so and so and so and so. I think that would have ended the conversation.

[B]

What kind of investigations do you do, Ken? Can we get a little bit of that? Like what. What is your background for investigations?

[C]

So we prefer surveillance. I don't care what it is, you know, whether it's insurance fraud, I love it. Cheating spouses. Love it. I'm in surveillance.

[B]

Okay, so you sound a lot like me. That's it. No, that's me too. So for 20 years, that's what I've done is surveillance. And it's on anything like that. So domestic insurance fraud, trafficking, whatever.

[C]

So it sounds like for me, it doesn't change any of the tactics. Right. Or it doesn't change the job description. It's like a person. Be there on time, follow them.

[B]

Absolute. Thank you.

[C]

I don't know why it's so important.

[B]

Observe and report.

[C]

Observe and report.

[B]

And just for a little bit more background. How long have you been a PI?

[C]

27 years.

[B]

That's. That's a good long time. And is that the whole time that has been surveillance based? And has there ever been a specialty or has it always just been whatever? Surveillance?

[C]

That's all I've ever done. So.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I've, like, dabbled in bounty hunting, which to me was cool because it was surveillance. And a little bit of adrenaline junkie side. I got to scratch that itch.

[B]

Okay, so you have a good background in surveillance, and this person calls you. How did. How did they find you? Like, if you have a lot of a list clients or how did you get into, like, the A listers?

[C]

No, I honestly, I think he just found me on Google.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think he found me on Google. He probably called a handful of people and then just he and I clicked.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Can you tell me exactly what he said in that first meeting? Like, what was his mission for you?

[C]

So there were staff that believed that his girlfriend was seeing somebody else. And I remember he gave me some indicators like, oh, she slips out and no one hears from her for three, four hours. And then, you know, some stuff like that. So of course I'm like, yeah, okay. And he was like, so I'm the manager of all of this and all of it goes through me before we bring it up to him.

[A]

Oh, so he's not asking you. They're trying to get validation and confirmation Right. Before they bring it to the big boss.

[C]

So it's kind of like a little bit of like, rumors were abuzz, right?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And this is a big name, so the rumors are like, oh, big deal.

[A]

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[B]

Ooh.

[A]

Okay, so they're like you gotta follow this woman.

[C]

Yeah, so I'm in. Sounds great. And two days later I found myself at the Holmby Hills watching the ranch. And I'm just sitting there like, what the fuck? And no joke, the morning starts off and I'm there early because they were telling me about her schedule and she's an early bird and she likes doing whatever. I forget what it was at the time. Maybe like yoga or something. So, okay, fine. So I'm there early and as I'm there, this massive tour bus shows up and then all these like bikini clad girls jump out of the bus and they're like, what the hell?

[A]

Is this real?

[C]

What is going on here?

[B]

Yeah, wait, a question. Stand by. Oh, sorry.

[A]

Yeah, we all have a lot of questions.

[C]

Hit me.

[B]

Okay, so, and this is just coming from like a PI standpoint. So I imagine you go to do surveillance and I imagine at a type of estate like that there's gates, there's security. You can't just like drive up all willy nilly up on a driveway.

[A]

I was going to ask the same thing because I hate to admit it, but I've, I've been there. Like I've dropped. If the security legally driven by.

[B]

Did security stop you and let you in? Were they in on it? Or did you find a surveillance somewhere else or would it climb a tree? What'd you do?

[C]

This was just like mission impossible and super fortuitous that it worked out this way. So it's a very narrow street, zero parking. Like it literally do not park on this street. And I'm the only on the street, you know, and it's like right around a bend and I'm as far back as I can and I just know the driveway is there. I can't see anything. I just know the driveway's there. I know there's a street across the street, like a T intersection. Right. So their house is here and she could just take off either direction and out. Straight out the front.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So now this like massive bus pulls up, all these bunnies come bouncing out and I'm sitting there going like, don't blink because there's so much activity in that street is this big. I was very focused.

[A]

What time did this bus show up? You're there early.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, eight, eight, nine o', clock, you know.

[A]

Wow. They start, the party starts early and.

[C]

So no joke, I'm looking through these bunnies and I just see a blur right by. So I punch it, I jump on the gas, I catch up to the car. It's her it's her car and we're off and going.

[A]

So just recap this. You can't really see the mansion at all.

[C]

No.

[A]

Because it's like really covered up.

[C]

You're just looking at 20 foot hedges.

[A]

Okay. And then.

[C]

And where you believe the driveway is.

[A]

It'S pretty standard for those guys in a car.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

So you happen to see her. So you. So typically on a surveillance, is that what you normally do? You see the car come out and then you follow? Like now you're on mobile pursuit.

[C]

Yeah. So now we're moving. I do. I mean, I knew it was her, but if it was like a different scenario and I had lesser information, I'd wait it out, I'd ride it out, I'd try to get eyes on the person. But this was an ultra small car and it was blacked out. Like limo blacked out. And even the windshield. And then, I mean, just because of all the information I was provided, I knew it was her. It was her personal car. And because of what I was told, I knew it was her.

[A]

So where are you driving? Like surveillance in LA and following someone in LA is gotta be wild.

[C]

So I remember she kind of bopped around a little bit and we ended up at like a big brunch spot.

[A]

And that sounds very L. A. Yeah, it's very la.

[C]

You know, you just go to like whatever, have like a $40 brunch, whatever.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

And so she gets out the car and she's wearing sweats, like hoodie. And I could see her. I know it's her. And so I'm just sitting there hanging out. I'm having brunch with her, I think.

[A]

Oh, so you go in?

[C]

Yeah. Why? Why not?

[A]

Well, I see, that's the thing. Even with Mackenzie, to this day, I'm like, ah, I can't even imagine like going in and just like being casual because I would freak out.

[B]

You want to see what they're doing?

[A]

So where do you sit? What's your angle? Paint this, paint the picture.

[C]

So here's the thing, like I don't know what's going to unfold, right. So sometimes the surveillance dictates, like, hey, stay in the car. Right. Like if she had just got a coffee or it looked like she was just going to be in and out. But I saw her go in, I saw her sit down, I saw a menu arrive. Like I got time, Right. And I do remember sitting there and I had her literally next to me because I wanted to overhear if she had any plans, what was going on. So it ended up being an uneventful morning. Like, okay, fine, after brunch, we left and we were cruising down Sunset and I'm like, you know, what is she doing? She has no reason to really just cruise Sunset. Right? Like, she is Miss Sunset. Like, she doesn't need to cruise.

[A]

I think everyone knows Sunset Boulevard. But for people who haven't been to la, what is cruising down Sunset?

[C]

Like, that's like just like a meandering street. Little slow curves.

[A]

You got like, you've got the billboards everywhere for every single movie and ad for every model. Like, I wouldn't have been surprised if you had driven past a billboard of.

[C]

Her at that time. Probably. Probably, yeah. There's really nice restaurants, great shopping, and then it's basically the entryway to the Beverly Hills mansions.

[B]

Right, okay, so but before you go on, when she was getting brunch, was there anything to document or observe a report? Like, was there anything exciting there? What, you didn't hear anything, see anything uneventful? Uneventful, okay, uneventful.

[C]

Like boring.

[B]

Right, Gotcha.

[C]

So now we are at the Sunset Plaza and she hangs a left and that goes up into the neighborhood. So I'm thinking, oh my gosh, you know, and that. And also up in the hills, right? Yeah. It's super hard to follow somebody in these streets because they're meandering. You lose sight of them in a blink because it's nothing but 20 foot hedges and driveways and left and rights, you know, and you kind of have to have that balance of I gotta keep them in view and also not be up their butt and show them that I'm there. It's very complicated surveillance. And I know the area well. I couldn't give you street names, but I know the area well enough that I know how to follow somebody up, up this area. And so finally we reached the top and she's gone. I'm thinking to myself, like, what the hell happened? You know, like, there's no way I missed her. Oh my God, I'm freaking out. She must have shot down some driveway. And I, and I circle and I'm running through them in my mind, like, how could I possibly missed her? And I know I didn't. I know I didn't. And it just so happens at the very top of this particular street, at the end of the street, it curves into like what you would think would be a cul de sac, right? But if you read the sign, it just says private drive. And that's not true. It's not a private drive. The street continues through these five sets of houses and drops off the backside.

[A]

I love the idea of them just putting that sign up. Just to keep in mind.

[C]

I'm so loaded. F. You stay off our street, right?

[B]

Totally private.

[C]

That's what I got. Yeah. So then I'm there, and I'm just staring at this private drive sign. And here's this security guard on, like, a movie shoot that was kind of happening behind us. So I flip him a picture. So this guy, like, obviously he didn't speak English.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. Go back. There's just a casual movie shoot.

[C]

Welcome to Beverly Hills, right? Welcome to la. Yeah.

[A]

So is it, like, in a house? Is it the whole street? What's going on?

[C]

No, because it ends in a cul de sac where the movie shoot was. Was. It went off in its own private drive, and you could see the trucks and trailers and all that. And there was, like, security that way, but there just so happened to be security in the cul de sac. And he was just kind of, like, sitting in the shade, you know, because I think he was probably your first point of contact if you were to go on the shoot, Right?

[A]

Totally.

[C]

But this poor guy doesn't speak in English. And I'm trying to talk to him, and he doesn't. Like, he's like, okay, you know, we're trying to figure it out, and finally I just Google her car, and just. I point to the picture, and he lights up, and he's like, come with me.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

So we walk through that private drive, we walk down about another two houses, and he's like, right there. Right there. That's. And I look and there's the car.

[A]

That's so. Like, I love that, Mackenzie. You have some of those where the person's like, ooh, I want to join the case, too, and just get so excited.

[B]

Yeah, I wondered. So, I mean, in that moment, it seems like you were like, oh, I gotta find this girl. So you're willing to show. But for me, like. And I don't know what the laws are in California. Also, every state governs their own PIs, but sometimes it's like, do I take this risk? And, like, blowing everything? Like, you're not supposed to tell anybody you're doing surveillance on her. Because he could go tell her, hey, this guy's doing surveillance on you.

[C]

And so I wonder.

[B]

Yeah, risk. Risk versus reward. You were probably like, oh, I could totally find her right now. And so it seems like it worked out for you.

[C]

Yeah, well, I was like, am I taking Crazy pills. Like, how did I miss her? Like, I know. I know.

[B]

It happens. They disappear so easy.

[C]

Like that.

[B]

Just like that. Yep.

[C]

And so he's, like, all excited. He's like, come with me, you know, Broken English. Like, we're just walking through these massive estates. So then I see the car, by the way, I tip this guy fat. Cause it's like, thank you, buddy. Like, here you go.

[A]

Yeah, I love that tip them huge.

[C]

And then now here's the problem. So now you're on the very top of the hill. It's one street that's private drive that drops off to the back of the other street. The streets are maybe 20ft wide. Nowhere to park. So now I'm kind of scrambling. Where can I see what's going on? And I also knew, like, so if you're looking at it eye level, it's just a very small flat, right? It's like a door, a window, and a window. But, you know, the house drops off the hillside. So I got it, flew back down the hill and started scouring the neighborhood for a place to look up. And it just so happens I come across this huge construction site, and I'm like, oh, my God. What am I doing? Right? So I walk out to the construction site, and I just stand there, and I'm just looking, looking. Everyone's working around me. No one asked me anything. So I just stand around for a couple more minutes if. As if I belong there.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

They all got bored. They all just stopped watching me because I, like, belong there.

[A]

And then I literally not hurting anybody.

[C]

No one asked me.

[B]

Yeah, if you. If you just act like you belong there and you don't act weird, everybody's gonna be like, oh, I guess they belongs here. And then they'll feel silly if they ask you.

[C]

Yeah. So then I saw their property line where they were, like, bulldozing and working. So I stepped off the property line, took a knee, and started filming up into the back of the house. Because it was all just glass for the whole world to see.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

There's so many houses on the hills like that, just, like, open. Open windows, which, obviously you're. You feel private because you're so far away. But I've gone on some hikes where I'm like, I hope they realize that they shouldn't be walking across that living room in their. You know, it's. You could get a lot from that brown chicken. I'm like, what are you gonna see? And you're filming on, like, a camcorder or your phone or what yeah, Camcorder.

[C]

Yeah, I don't. I, like, rarely will use a phone.

[B]

Okay, now, is this daytime or nighttime or what time of day is this?

[C]

Broad daylight. So you're.

[B]

And they are. Where. Where do you see her? Outside or inside?

[C]

So she's inside. So I was able to confirm, like, triple confirmed that this was her. So I ran the property records. It came back to her mother. That's how they were able to hide her purchase from him. So her house was in her mother's name.

[A]

Oh, so this is her house. It's not like she's going to another person's house.

[C]

This was her home, but in her mother's name.

[B]

Why did she want to hide the purchase of the house from him?

[A]

I have a guess.

[C]

I don't know. I don't have a couple million laying around to, like, even hide.

[A]

Hide a house.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I wouldn't know. Well, the crazy thing is she bought it for next to nothing and then, like, three years later, sold it for 10x.

[B]

How did you know they put it in her mom's name to hide it. Like, was there. Is there some kind of research that you did to help?

[C]

Yeah, so I ran the address, and it came back owned to the mother's name. So obviously she's.

[B]

Oh, so we're kind of. So we don't know for sure that she was hiding it. We just know her mom's name.

[C]

I'm just saying it's a safe assumption that. Yeah, when your lover lives there, you don't want your husband to know about it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Oh, wow. So she's a sugar mommy.

[B]

So if so from where you were at outside, you could see into the house, like, usually. You would think, because usually when it's daytime and you're filming inside, you can't see anything. So these windows are. Hannah, they're that open like you guys. Who has windows like that?

[C]

I think when you look as good as these two do, you don't care who's watching.

[A]

They're like, ooh.

[C]

In fact, you're like, look at me.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

So what do you see?

[C]

What do I not see?

[A]

Wait, tell us what you see up there.

[B]

What? What is she doing in there?

[C]

I mean, do you watch, like, graphic details?

[B]

Ken's like, okay, that's the end of the story. Gotta go. Ken, you better start seeing Spilling the beer.

[C]

It's been a great podcast. Thank you.

[A]

We are an unrated podcast. You can tell us the tea.

[B]

So what did you see?

[C]

Yeah, so here's this, like, young stud, butt naked and she's going down on him and fully enjoying themselves.

[B]

So she's like. So she gets home from the mansion and then she's just going to all willy nilly on homeboys. Willy nilly. Just in the middle of. In the middle. In front of the window, in front.

[A]

Of God and everybody.

[C]

That's your noon delight.

[B]

And what.

[A]

Tell me more about. Could you see the guy's face? Do you have any way of identifying him?

[C]

I saw everything. The guy was a stud. He was like an ultra handsome young singer. Yeah.

[A]

So you knew who it was?

[C]

Yeah, I forget. I don't know. I was like tinkering around. I figured out who he was.

[A]

Yeah, another celeb.

[C]

Super handsome. Super handsome guy.

[B]

Was he a celebrity or do we know? Or kind of trying?

[C]

He was trying. I would put him on the level of like, cruise line entertainer.

[B]

Oh, that is so not really.

[C]

Like, probably makes a living and is praying to break in. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he disappeared, though.

[B]

Like, oh, boy. Okay. Wow.

[A]

Guess what season is coming up. It's Gilmore Girls rewatch season. It's cooling down, the leaves are changing. It's time to get cozy. And you really want your space to feel cozy as you, you know, maybe binge, binge it again. If you're like me, you do it every year. So Wayfair is the place that you need to go to make your space cozy enough for that. As your trusted destination for all things home, Wayfair's got everything you need to cozify your space this fall, from comfy recliners to warm bedding and autumn decor. They even have amazing Halloween decorations, which I didn't even know that they had that. And when I was very excited about it. I love that Wayfair is curated by style, so there's really something for everyone. The selection is huge and there's options for every budget price point. Super unique finds that reflect you and your style. And it's also just so easy. And free shipping, not free. You do have to pay for the furniture, but the shipping is free, so that's exciting. I love some good seasonal home decor. So if you're looking for something with a little pumpkin, the warm colors, cozy texture, maybe a doormat, you can go there. If you need kitchen essentials, if you need work from home or like a study setup, a reading chair, a low light lamp, and they have bedding and bath basics. They have storage stuff, they have living room furniture to refresh your living room. They really have everything. It's free and easy delivery. Even on the big stuff. So no more huge delivery fees for furniture and no need to shop at multiple stores for furniture, decor, appliances, cookware. It's all in one place. And I really think you should go check some of their fun seasonal stuff. Especially if you're about to, you know, cozy up with a cup of tea and watch Lorelei and Rory date annoying men. Cozify your space with Wayfair's curated collection of easy, affordable fall updates. From comfy recliners to cozy bedding and autumn decor, Find it all for way [e-mail] that's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair every style, every home Mackenzie I'm obsessed with SUV.

[B]

I haven't gotten mine yet. I'm so excited. Oh my God. Okay, so you have to tell them what you told me about it.

[A]

So this is genuine Suvi Kitchen robot is a very cool device that I am kind of like a missionary for now. I've been telling all my friends. In fact, my roommate, who is a beneficiary of us getting to try Suvi, is so obsessed with it, I posted on our story he like facetimed all his friends to show them how this works.

[B]

That's me. I might actually cook. I'm letting you guys know.

[A]

So here's what it is. It is a smart countertop oven. And Suvi also has a meal delivery service if you want to do that too. It saves you hours in the kitchen. So Suvi the kitchen robot is the thing that sets it apart for me is that it has built in refrigeration. So it's like an air fryer oven, like all the things. But what I can do is I can throw some food in there and say I want this done at 7pm for dinner. Yes, I know it's noon, but I've got stuff to do. Okay. I don't have time to time all the meals. I know that the veggies have to be in for a different amount of time than the protein I need.

[B]

I can't handle it. That's why I don't cook, y'. All. I'm so where's mine? I can't wait to try. You need it.

[A]

So then you put it in for what time you want it. You say what you're cooking and it says, we got it. It keeps the refrigeration until it's time to start cooking. It cooks the bottom at whatever time it needs to start and the top at a different time. And then it's all ready at the same time. Do you Know how many times I've bought vegetables and never actually eaten them because they go bad? Because I don't have the patience to cook them?

[B]

Welcome to my life.

[A]

Guess who made roasted veggies and ate them this week?

[B]

Me. You? You're a real grown up.

[A]

I am.

[B]

And I'm so excited for the shoot.

[A]

Here's the next part that you're gonna freak out about. Their delivery service sends you the ingredients you need. No more, no less. Healthy meals. Many options. I've already made a chicken one, a salmon one, and a pork tenderloin, which I would not have usually bought myself, but I was like, let's go. And it has a veggie and like a rice or a starch or whatever. And then it comes with a little card with all of the information on how to make it. And you tap the card to the sous vide kitchen robot and the Suvi robot can tell what meal it is. And it says, I know how to cook this. You don't have to tell me anything else. And it just doesn't.

[B]

I. You guys. Hello. Welcome to the Jetsons. I'm so excited.

[A]

And SUV offers a 100 day risk free trial. So you can just give it a try. Go to suvi.comdatingdetives to get 16 free meals when you order. That's s u v I e.comdatingdetives to get to 16 free meals with your risk free trial. Save time, eat better with Suvie and have fun because it's just really fun. It's like a gadget.

[B]

The surveillance. Were you told, like, hey, I want to know if this girl is like, we. I want to know if she is seeing somebody else. Right. That was the whole goal of the investigation or the surveillance. Right.

[C]

To see if she was seeing somebody, see if she was cheating.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you video?

[B]

Yeah. How long were you there? Were you there for like, hours?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And what are the laws in California? Or as far as like, the ethical and moral guidelines as far as videotaping into someone's home? What are your thoughts? What are the laws? What's your experience with that?

[C]

Okay, so what I learned early in my career was that the laws are you can't invade somebody's privacy. You can't film into one's home. But if I'm where the postal person could be, if I'm where a cop could be, a fire person could be, a bystander who's just walking their dog, could be. And if I looked over and I saw what I could see, then why can I not film it?

[B]

Okay.

[C]

What I'm saying is if you're on.

[A]

A public sidewalk, right, you're fine.

[C]

So legally, if anybody's allowed to be where I am, and we could all see it with our naked eye, so then why can I not film it? But with that said, let's say we're looking at a window. I'm not going to film into the house. To me, that's an invasion of privacy.

[B]

But I will say the windows were like open 100%.

[C]

The whole back, the whole back was like wide open. You could see the spiral staircase, you could see the floors. You could see everything. You could see everything. And so I'm not going to zoom in past what I believe someone from the public could see.

[B]

Okay, that makes sense.

[C]

Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I'm not going to.

[A]

Oh, good.

[C]

I'm not going to just go into. To the point where it's beyond intrusive. I'm getting what anybody and everybody would be able to see.

[B]

So typically, and this is on my side, so I want to know if you do it a little differently, a client will call you and say, hey, I want this many days of surveillance and days equals eight hours. And that determines what their budget is. And they say, oh, I have a budget of this. Then you know, it's two days, which is 16 hours, and so on and so forth. How many hours did this client want and how many hours of surveillance did you do and what happened after you saw. And was that the first day that you saw her at that house?

[C]

It was the very first day.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And the crazy thing is like. Like that wasn't enough for them. I drove down the hill and pulled him aside and we met at the park and the back of some old school town car mafia hit style. And I'm showing him what I've got and he says, okay, let's get more. And I'm like, really?

[B]

I got wait.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. He said, basically that's what we expected and we want more.

[B]

Wait. Like immediately after the surveillance, you left and went right back to the client. Immediately.

[C]

I drove right down the hill. Normally I don't do that, but with this, he gave me a budget and just said, here's X dollars. Basically, I don't care if it takes an hour, I don't care if it takes a week. Keep it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So I went up, I showed him the video and he said, great. And then he said, I want more. Let's do the whole budget. Plus, it was a very lucrative case.

[B]

So what happened next? Did you do another day?

[C]

We Did a couple more days. We did a couple more days and we got. We got the same thing. Like, every single time.

[A]

Was this consecutive days? Did you space it out? Is this her daily routine? Like, go get brunch. Go, you know, enjoy your afternoon. Have an afternoon delight?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Every day.

[C]

Yeah, I remember it was a week long, and I got at least three occasions.

[A]

Anything to report about those? Is it show up early, see a bus every day?

[C]

Not the bus. Not the bus, but. So the reason why I think that spot worked out so well was because it was. It was like. I don't know. So it was like a curve. Right. And so let's say the driveway was here, but then the street continued straight out. And so because I was parked way behind the curve back here, she would just shoot across to the street. So I think she could never see me. I don't think she gave a shit about side traffic. I think she just bolted straight out the. Out the driveway.

[B]

Well, I imagine in a typical domestic case, when they see people around them, they're like, oh, who's that? But when you're kind of in a celebrity environment or the realm of a celebrity, imagine there's going to be a ton of people and it's just not that noticeable. It might seem. It might seem easier to do surveillance on someone like that.

[C]

Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I think there's just so much going on at that house.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think even the neighbor. Even, you know what I'm talking about in a situation like this, like, the neighbors are more likely to hassle you than oftentimes the subject home.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Because you're parked in front of another Somebody else's $40 million. The Spielberg, this, that with it. I forget who other, like, rapper I was parked in front of and, like. And their security's walking out like, hey, what's up? You know, and you got to kind of tell them why you're there, but not give them details and hopes that they'll chill out because they're like, hey, we're glad you're not here for us. Right. Sure. You just don't know how it's going to go.

[B]

And you don't know what neighbors know what neighbors and who's going to talk to who. And it's like, you got to be careful. Yeah.

[C]

They all know each other, and so does security. Right. Because. Because they want jobs with each other. They want to know who's paying the most. And so they're all talking. You think Chatty Cathy talks, Security guards talk.

[A]

That's so good to know.

[C]

So then I meet with the person that hired me. I gave them all the video, all the originals. I gave them everything. Right. And then a couple of days later, they were both of them completely off the Internet for a while.

[B]

Vanished, like, and for, like, from life.

[C]

From the Internet.

[B]

Just from the Internet. So is she still alive?

[C]

I think so.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

You scared me there for a second. But their careers you don't have an.

[C]

Update on, I never followed up. So I remember maybe a couple weeks later, I tinkered around and looked into it. They were both just completely gone from the Internet. I found that to be so bizarre.

[A]

And you go back and you just tell them, and they're like, okay, thanks. Were they upset? Were they not surprised?

[C]

Well, I mean, I didn't have to warn him and how graphic it was because they were in the industry, right? And I told them straight up, like, this is literally the only copy because I'm not going to get accused of any sort of leaks or have any backlash. Like, I don't want it. I don't want to be sued. I don't want any bullshit. So here's your one and only copy played in your device, and the second you're good, we're done, we part ways, like, we're cool, and that's it. And I literally deleted it off my camera. I deleted it off my. My laptop, like, right there in front of him.

[B]

What's the law? That's that. Is that what's the law in California on that?

[C]

There's no law. There's no law.

[B]

Really?

[C]

With regard. Yeah. In fact, like, I think we have to keep our stuff for two to five years. But with regard to that and being the person that he was, I didn't want to be part of some, like, you know, some, like, smear campaign and problems. It's like, I got hired to do this. I got it for you. You do what you need to do. Well, they also told me that they were going to keep it, like, all in house and deal with it in house. So I was like, okay. So there's. So you have no doubt that there's no leak, no nothing. This is. You're literally looking at everything. I'm deleting all of it in front of you.

[B]

Oh. And it's. And so you just gave everything. You didn't keep nothing.

[C]

I know. I so regret it.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you have any, like, I don't want to, you know, judge anyone, but given the bunny situation, is there any part of you that was like, did I even need to do surveillance? Like, I'm impressed that this person was monogamous or expected monogamy is my point.

[C]

Yeah. I kind of found that to be pretty funny. Right. It's like, it was probably like you could bang everybody on the ranch, just nobody outside of the ranch.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think, I guess, hey, communication is everything. If you are not communicating about it.

[C]

Then I'm pretty sure when you're at that age and when you're at that level of success, I'm sure everything was like in contracts, right. Like you're for image only and don't fuck it up.

[A]

Wild.

[B]

Really, this story's interesting because if anybody knows who we're talking about, you know, this dude has ladies. Like he, he short, no lady. So why would it matter if one of them was doing her own thing or going her? Like, why would it even matter? And that just goes to show you, when you have more money than God and when you have this status and when you have this staff and when you can, why not like it? Yeah, it's the image. And you have this plethora of women around you. Right. But you're worried about this one. It just goes to show you that that's kind of a little bit of an ego there, maybe, you know, kind of.

[A]

Maybe his whole life was built on quite the ego, I think. Have you experienced any a list related maybe threats perhaps?

[C]

No, but I've received some like ultra wealthy oligarch bullshit. Yeah.

[B]

Wait, what do you, like, people have been like, hey, we're gonna come after you.

[C]

Yeah. So we just did a job maybe six months ago or so. And you know, this like, this wife, hey, you know, my husband's cheating, but she doesn't know who. She knows he is cheating. He's also like a total. And I just basically want to get the evidence. So in a sense she could gut check him in hopes that he would come back to the house and knock his shenanigans off.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So, okay, so we're doing surveillance and he's on the back side of the hill. So it's like Sherman Oaks, Tarzana now that area. Yeah. So now that area is becoming like very wealthy now. So we end up following him and we can kind of sense like, oh, gosh, okay, he's looking for a tail. Like he's kind of circled once or twice. I knew the area enough. My business partner, she was on the phone with me and she's like, hey, this is what's going on? And I said, great, pump the Brakes. He's going to circle back one more time. Fucking watch. And then sure enough, she stopped right where I told her to. And he made the fourth trip around, pulled over, parks right in front of her. So he's looking everywhere and didn't see the one blacked out car in front of him. So he pulls over in his like Rolls Royce, you know, suv. And then here comes this like incredibly beautiful. I can't even give any more details than that because like in this neighborhood they'll know exactly who the hell I'm talking about. So this stunning woman gets out of the car. Middle aged, beautiful, beautiful woman. And they're looking all around. They jump in the Rolls Royce and take off. So we start following and, and the great thing about following a man in particular is like he's not thinking terribly clearly about everything around him.

[A]

Yeah, he's thinking, thinking with.

[C]

Yeah. So we have blinders on so that we follow him like now, now I'm pretty sure I was on the surveillance now because I remember getting to the restaurant. So we end up following to this like super funky but like hidden little restaurant on the drop off of the back of the hills. It's always empty. And the only reason why they're in business is they do weddings. Right. But like you can go and have lunch.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

So it's just him and her having lunch. So you see this empty parking lot, a goddamn Rolls Royce and these two morons having like lunch, you know, afternoon wines and. But that's great for me because now I know not only is he thinking with, he's also boozed up. So granted, yeah, I'm gonna push it. We follow them from the restaurant and they go to the Marriott, they check in. The great thing about the Marriott is that you could pay cash. So they go in, they pay for the room. So we get their arrival, we get them walking in together. And it just took us a minute to park. We're jogging across the street like idiots, you know, trying to get, see if we can get them on check in. And they go up to the room. So at this point I've got our little spy gadgets and we're sitting in the lobby. But we're also. So there was a little Starbucks inside and they were selling coffee cups and other stuff. So I dropped a camera in that. So when they came out of the elevator bank, it was like, got you.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[C]

Yeah. So they walk out of the elevator bank and we get the like greatest video because she looks like she's like, like having the best afternoon ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he's like, you know, his chest is a little puffed out further than normal, I'm sure. And we got all that on video. It was great. We circle back. I don't know, a couple days later, we give it to the wife. And thank God I was communicating with her with the Burner app, because now she's texting me, losing her mind, completely upset. Her husband wants to know who the fuck followed him and all this stuff. And my take was he wasn't even mad that he got caught. He was mad that he didn't see us.

[B]

Yeah, he was mad. He.

[A]

He's gross.

[C]

Then this asshole starts threatening to sue me and everybody else because, like, what are you going to sue, bro? Outside of, like, just, like, ruining someone's day, what are you going to sue? Everything that I got was within public view. Yeah, you're done.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

You're done. That's where these entitled people are today. They have. They have so much money in LA that they're like, I will nuke your life because I can.

[A]

Yeah, it's a power thing. Oh, wow. So are you the type that doesn't care about the closure? Are you, like, I want to know if that woman left her husband or what happened next.

[C]

I care that they gave, that I got paid and I did the best job possible. That's all I care about. You know? I don't know. I've been doing this. So how long have you been doing it?

[B]

20 years.

[C]

Yeah, so. Okay, so. So I've been doing a little bit longer, but I've gotten to this point where I just care about the business side of it all. Like, I just want to work. I want to do surveillance. I want to keep out the drama. And then also, like, sometimes. Sometimes I like being the fun guy at the bar with all the, like, million stories. And sometimes I don't want you to like the, like, more on PI. Sometimes I'm like, you're cooler than me. I'd rather hear your stories.

[B]

I'm a moron. That's always me. No, that's funny that you say that. I think that's. That's so interesting because it's true. But that's one thing. I'm not interested. I do not care about the business side. I only care about the surveillance. Like, that's it. That's so funny. We're so different there.

[A]

How'd you get into it?

[C]

So I was working in Pasadena trying to do the community college thing, and it just doesn't like. It just doesn't equate. Like, LA is so expensive. And so I was like, hanging onto it for a while. Before I knew it, I was doing the math and I was like, wow, how on earth did a year go by, right? Like, it just like went so fast. And then, I kid you not, as I'm doing the like, where am I? What am I doing with my life? Moment. The next day was like Sunday morning football. And this guy comes into the bar and he's blasted, right? He's already just wasted, drunk. And he had tattoos, like, cut here, teardrops, the whole thing. And there was one girl at the bar, of course, one girl. And he just makes a beeline right to her. And he's like, all over. So I'll slide in between him and I'm like, hey, honey. Like, hey, well, thanks for saving my spot. And I'm trying to save her, and she's like mouthing like, thank you, you know, like, Jesus Christ, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And this guy was just so much. He was so much. And finally I just turned around, I'm like, look, bud, you just gotta go. Just get the fuck out of here. And he turns and he tries to punch me. The guy is like, but he's so wasted. And he just swings at me and I just slap him, like, right out of tv. Bam. Right across the face.

[B]

Will Smith and Chris Rock.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

Boom. Right across the face. And then he just can't believe it happened. And neither can I, to be honest with you. And then so he swings again and I slap him right across the face. The other way, throw him in a chokehold, drag him out of the street and just fucking drop him right in the street. So on my way back in, there was a table of four. And they're like, hey, pal, sit down. We've got to talk. And so I sit there and I'm, you know, and internally, I've got this like, where am I? Moment. Like, oh, my law enforcement career, where's it going? And like, how am I gonna get there? What am I doing with myself? And these guys are like, hey, so we're private investigators and this is what we do. You're the guy, let's go. And I started, like, I started the very next morning at 3:30 in the morning. I fucking quit my job right there and left.

[B]

Good for you. That is an amazing story. Yeah, I love that.

[A]

And I love that you. You help that girl out and see good things happen when you do good things.

[C]

Yeah. So off and went, like my very first day of surveillance. I get to this creepy van at 3:30 in the morning and I, I'm in this, you know, back of it going like, fuck, I'm next. What have I done? We get out to the middle of the desert at this apartment building, and at like 5 o' clock in the morning, this big dude leaves. He's got this huge lunchbox, toolbox, muscles his way down the stairs, get his truck and takes off. And my heart's pounding. I'm good to go. Follow the guy. We get him to work. That was all I needed. That was that taste. Set me for life. That was it.

[A]

Wow. And you're still, still loving it. There's so many questions I have about learning from UPIs if we want to go there. Like we've asked a few. I got a lot of tips from MacKenzie at this point, but we do mostly talk about dating. And I feel like everyone is scared to date now, especially online. Like, how do we find out that the person we're dating is not, I don't know, the guy driving that van? Do you have any dating tips as a private investigator based on your experience?

[C]

Real simple. Keep it light and easy. Set a coffee meeting. And if they don't show up? Done.

[A]

But then what if they do show up? How do we know they're not psycho?

[C]

There's no way to know. You can't stop crazy. Yeah, you gotta just suss it out if you're like, you know, like, if you've got the vibe, get out, pay for that cup of coffee and bounce. Yeah, I remember when I was dating, so I, I bought an 800 number back when I was really young because it unblocks all incoming calls. So I would always hand out an 800 number. And then so anytime I got a call, I had their actual number. So that kind of learned from that. Like I would tell all my girlfriends and friends of friends, go with a burner app or get an 800 number. So then that way you have their true legitimate number. Or if you don't like what's going on, you could just burn that number and move on.

[A]

Right. Google voice now it's easy to get another number.

[C]

Yeah, you could do that.

[A]

Do you like that? Not into it. Not as good.

[C]

I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

There's a zill you. I, I've had probably ten zillion phone numbers. Like you can get them from anywhere.

[C]

Yeah, just pay for the app. It's like 10 bucks a month or whatever and you're not gonna get killed, you know, it's a good price.

[A]

That's worth it. Yeah, worth it.

[C]

120 a year. You're not gonna die because they have your real contact info.

[B]

Exactly. No, exactly.

[A]

Totally. From both of your experience, who cheats more, men or women? In your cases?

[C]

I'd say 50. 50?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'd say women are coming out strong.

[A]

Yeah. I think for cheating happens more. Yeah, a lot of times. I just think it's harder. Women are, like, better at not getting caught.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

But maybe not always.

[B]

I think It's. I think it's 65, 35. I mean, women cheat more.

[C]

I think the reason being is, like, sex used to be, like, so taboo, right? And, like, yes. You were a whore. You talk about sex, you're a whore. And I think those days have changed. Now you've got these younger women that are more empowered and they're balling today. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And the consequences are different. Before, you didn't have a life. Your husband left you. You didn't have money anymore.

[B]

Consequences.

[A]

Now, if you're doing your own thing, you can do your own thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I also feel they're smarter than men.

[A]

They're just, like I said it, not me.

[C]

They're not as. Yeah, they're much, much trickier than men are.

[B]

Our brains are just different.

[A]

Oh, man. We have some aspiring PIs listening. Any tips if they want to become a PI?

[C]

Yeah, go get a government job, get a retirement, then go become a PI.

[B]

That's not wrong. There ain't no good unless you have a really good, like, lucrative PI business that you build from the ground up, and you have the best clientele, and then you can keep it going with other, like, with employees or contractors. That's. That's actually legit, sound advice.

[C]

It is. It is always the same. And, like, the bigger the city, the bigger the problems. Like, every day is, like, every day is a fucking problem. You know? Like, you wake up, your inbox has got a couple emails in it. Twenty minutes later, you're like, holy shit. Like, oh, now I got to go get some insurance bond now, for some reason, something fell off the Internet. The website, this is down. People are hacking me. I got bullshit crypto people fucking with me too, you know? Like, yeah, I found myself in some huge crypto thing, and I landed a meeting with, like, three meetings with the FBI. Six sheriff's officers were in jail. Now they're all pleading out. And then the main guy that hired me, he's pleading out. And then the other guy that I watched, he's Suing everybody. So, like, yeah. I mean, every day. Welcome to small business. Every day is something.

[A]

Wow, that's amazing advice, though.

[C]

So, yeah, go. Go get a retirement. This isn't cute. This is a real small business, so you have to be business savvy. You have to be good at it. Following people is nothing cute like tv, where you see them sitting up front and they're, like, taking pictures and the guys that could cross the street. Get the fuck out of here with that.

[B]

That's so funny. Oh, my God, it's so true. That's what they see. And even on my PI Stories, like, you could tell, like, I'm sitting in the driver's seat, but, like, the ones where you're real in the thick of it, like, you in the back seat, you're climbing over the. Like, you all over the place. You're out of the car. You are following the mind peeing in cups.

[C]

Well, also, like. Like, you just brought up, like, situation. Every situation is different. There are some. There's like, quite a bit that you can sit up in the front seat. Right. Because you just don't. Like, in the Bunny Ranch, I was so far back behind that curve that if I was in the backseat, I wouldn't have enough time to get up front, you know, and. And then get on the car, you know, so. So it's all, like. It's all situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Permitting.

[B]

And then it's not as cute as I make it look.

[C]

It's not.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

It's not cute. Like, you make it look cute as hell.

[B]

Thank you, Ken. I appreciate that. What are your thoughts on female investigators versus male investigators as far as, like, qualifications or skills? Do you have any thoughts on that, or.

[C]

I think women are amazing. So I've got a female business partner, and she's changed my perspective on all of this. I used to be. Maybe it was like a bravado thing. I don't know. And then I met my business partner, and I'm sitting down, having a cup of coffee with her, and I'm like, this is a ninja. She's like five foot two, glasses, ink, no fucks, T shirt and jeans kind of gal. And I'm like, going, like, where have you been all my life? You know, like, this is it. We worked together ever since. And she's amazing.

[B]

That's really awesome. I think I catch a lot of. Well, I've kind of normalized over the last several years. People are like, oh, she's a PI do makeup and PI stuff. And it does look really cute, but there Is like there's, there's some savvy, there's some moxie. You have to be smart. You have to think outside the box. You have to be quick, you have to be witty, you have to be charming, you have to be all these things. You have to be a social engineer. You have to know how to talk to people. You have to know what to say, when to say it. You're femtuition. Your gut instinct has to be on point. Like there's a lot to it. It's not just, you know, this older, this blonde girl doing surveillance. Like there's a lot to it. And so I feel like it's kind of funny that people do look at me and they're like, oh, you do, right? You're an investigator. Sure.

[C]

Because, so, yeah, so I think it's like, it's like a double edged sword. Right?

[B]

Like.

[C]

Like what you're saying too. So then the flip side is women are maybe not better at surveillance, but women are definitely better at talking to people. Because like, right then and there, like, you roll up, you smile at me, girl. What do you, what do you need to know? I got you. I roll up and they're like, hey, go yourself. You know, like. And I'm like, but I'm Ken, like, talk to me. Come on.

[A]

Well, that's what I was gonna say about the kind of ditzy woman Persona. It almost gives you that advantage of being.

[B]

You're less intimidating. Disarming. Yeah.

[A]

People don't expect as much.

[C]

So what I do. So sadly, it's not sadly, but so I'm bigger than most. So I'm not like a big guy by any means, but I'm 6, 2, 200. And so when I talk to people, I make sure, I make sure I'm not square with them. And I always, like, I look down and I have my mouth open at all times and I ask them things that make them feel better about themselves. Like I dumb myself down, like quite well. It's not like saying a lot, but. So I'm like, I'm always lost. I'm the pathetic one. I'm the one that needs help.

[B]

Pathetic, yes, that's the one. Like, I'm just so stupid. I cannot believe I have to ask this, but did you see a dog running your back? Like, yes, that's.

[C]

Yeah, that makes sense. So I need, I need that opener. And then like, I don't care that they're like, go fuck yourself. You know, as long as you're talking to me, please say whatever you Want, I don't care. Yeah, but then like, so women can get that quicker. But I do feel women are much stronger at other things because the guard's already been dropped. But now the woman has to like have the balls to ask the question, though.

[B]

It's true.

[C]

So you gotta like get the little conversation going. Whether it's like, I'm just dumb or I'm a little flirty, I feel like women have better options to get that going. And talking.

[B]

Yeah, it really, it really is a double edged sword though. But it is interesting to see both sides of it. And I think that, you know, when I was told I couldn't be PI because I was a girl and that was a man's industry, and then here we are 20 years later, I'm doing the thing, I guess, like, you know, but it does take a lot of people think, oh, I could sit in a car and watch people. And it's like, nah, nah, nah, you don't understand.

[C]

You'll be chasing butterflies in 20 minutes.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It is so much more than that. So much more than that. Anyways, Hannah, what other questions do you think our audience would have as a non PI?

[A]

Where can people find you? Where can people follow you or work with you if they need you?

[C]

Yeah. So if you, if you wanted to follow me, you can find me on Instagram. I think it's licensed PI.

[A]

But if you, you have licensed PI, you got that handle?

[C]

I think so. If I don't, then I'm an idiot.

[B]

You should be. You should be. Freedom Ken, Freedom Barbie and Freedom Kid.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

And then if not, you could find me just Google Paramount investigative services and I should come right up. Yeah.

[A]

If you get another dogfish case, can you come back and tell us again? I want to hear updates on crazy cases.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[C]

Not just limited to dogfish. Like I'm telling you, I've done it all.

[B]

Good. So we'll come back once a month and hear from Ken. Do different cool stories Barbie again.

[A]

Sounds cool. Oh my gosh. Thank you so, so much.

[B]

Oh, that was a lot. I like Ken. He's nice.

[A]

Yeah. And what, I mean, I'm sure he did tell us, you know, mentioned very casually. He's like some other a listers have. Have come up in his career and I mean, I'm very curious to hear if people know what we, who we were talking about. Do you guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Comment. And also if you know the deets. But you know, I want to hear.

[B]

Like, I want to hear like, yes, I know who this is. And also I want to hear like if you know the dirt from that time or perhaps you were a close follower of these, of these celebrities or you happen to know, or you think you happen to know more. I want to know, I want to know what you guys thoughts are, who you think it is and who you think the guy was at the house. Because I think I have my, like.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that does not take a rocket surgeon. But I want to say we didn't talk about it and it isn't like super relevant to the story, but like, I know there have been like more recent allegations of like abuse happening at that place and it's like a wild place to live. So as we talk about, obviously a very different time, but as we talk about what happened, we're, you know, focused on his case and his story, but are aware that there's way more to every individual story in that case.

[B]

But yeah, this is just getting Ken's, Ken's version of it based on his investigation and his surveillance.

[A]

Can I ask you some PI questions?

[B]

Sure. Okay.

[A]

Like, do you think you would have done the same thing in terms of setting up your camera there? Like, how would you have gone about that?

[B]

You. And setting up my camera where?

[A]

Right by the construction site, aimed straight up at the hanky panky in the window.

[B]

So if you recall, there's actually a story that I did about a sports ball situation character who came to one of Florida's famous beaches. And I went out onto the beach and actually was able to stand on the beach, look up at the, the hotel room and see them on the patio doing some willy nillies in the willy.

[A]

And it was right in the public view.

[B]

Right in the public view. There's no, I mean, anybody can, you know, see what's going on. So anyways, I, it sounds like I would have. Obviously I would. Anywhere I go for like the rest of my life, I always look at like, oh, where would I do surveillance if I were here? It's just something that pops in my head because it's like my whole life.

[A]

You'Re always head on a swivel, always.

[B]

Had on a swivel. And so whenever I go somewhere, I'm always thinking like, oh, where would I do surveillance? And so based on how he was describing it, it must have been a freaking nightmare. But if you find a place that has like, like he describes a construction zone and you can just walk up all willy nilly, hell yeah, I'm going back there. And if you, if it's uncomfortable and you're like, oh, they're gonna look at me. I don't care. I will.

[A]

They are doing it in front of the window.

[B]

Listen, I will pull into someone's driveway if it shot, and I will sit in their driveway until either the cops arrive or they come out and ask me what I'm doing there. Like, I do not care. If that's what it takes to get the shot, you do it. And if you just get the shot for a couple of minutes until someone says, hey, what are you doing? That's what we're doing. So it sounds like he was working with what he had. I just. It feels so stressful to hear him say that. Like, he was doing surveillance. And then there was a tour bus, and there's. Oh, yeah, y'. All. It's hard enough doing surveillance in an apartment complex where you can see the front door. There's plenty of parking. No one notices you. There's tons of whatever. Much less on a narrow street where there's no parking. You don't know where exactly the driveway is. And then all of a sudden, you have this swarm of, like, you know, you have this bus, and then you have this car, and it's like, holy crap. Like, blink, and you will miss them. And that happens. And so it's sounds really stressful, but he got it very, very stressful, Especially.

[A]

Thinking about that neighborhood. Like, he definitely described it well, but I've been over there. It's like, very narrow streets. You can't park anywhere. And then up in the hills where the other house was so narrow, so windy. Like, every other street is a dead end, but it's not clear. He did a. The fact that he found her is. I'm very impressed.

[B]

Really? Yeah.

[A]

And that security guard. Awesome. Awesome.

[B]

That's where. That's where I kind of. That's where I would kind of question it. So that's when you have to really, really determine risk versus reward. If I'm going to literally, like, break the law to get this information, you better make sure it's for a good reason. You better make sure that you are confident this person is not gonna, like, say nothing. Like, it's. Well, could you.

[A]

I think you would have had a good cover. Like, hi, I'm trying. I. I lost the address to my. Like.

[B]

Well, he said the guy didn't speak English. The security guard.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

And so what do you say? And so he's like.

[A]

He just pointed to the car.

[B]

He just pointed to the picture. And I get it. Like, I. Yeah. Like, what do you do. The guy doesn't speak English. So he's like, so it kind of worked in his benefit. Because if the guy doesn't speak English, he could just be like, I didn't say that. Like, you know what I mean? He doesn't.

[A]

A language barrier. So if he had asked explicitly, yeah.

[B]

He could totally get away with it. But it does, it does make you wonder, like at the end of the day, if you do things the right way, you'll. Like you're doing things the right way. Always yields the best result, in my opinion. Even if the result. Yeah, you're cover. Because if you, if you decide to not do things the right way and it comes back, you'll get in a lot of trouble. But if you do things the right way and you don't get what you need, at least you did things the right way. Do you know what I mean? There's no totally. So it kind of makes sense to me.

[A]

But have you worked with other PIs that felt similarly, where they were just like, whatever it takes, we'll deal with it, the consequences later?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Like there's a lot of times, for instance, on a surveillance case, or let's say a workers comp case, where someone says, oh, I can't my neck and back and they want a bazillion bazillion dollars when they're suing an insurance company or whatever, and they will go to their house and like knock over a garbage can in front of their driveway. And so the person that they're doing surveillance has to come out and pick it up. And that means they have to bend down, pick up this 20 pound object or however much it weighs and.

[A]

Oh, so they like really set them up.

[B]

So they set them up and I won't do that. I just. That's not the right thing to do. It's not ethical. It's not. There's just you. There's no way you. I, for me, I can't justify that. But a lot of people do that.

[A]

In the handbook, you know, in the law, is that allowed for a PI to do something that, that sets them up?

[B]

Well, first of all, if you're going on someone's property and knocking down their trash can, that's against the law. Like, I think. Yeah. So you can't do that. It's. I think it's a matter at that point of if. So the definition of entrapment as far as law enforcement is concerned is did these people do something they would not have normally done without your actions? So if, if you weren't there to knock down the trash can, would they have picked it up? You can't say they would have. So that could be considered entrapment. It could be harassment. So I would just rather err on the side of do things the right way.

[A]

You know, does the that still apply for when you're having just a conversation with maybe a subject and you. What if you were, you know, oh, I'm missing my dog, blah blah, blah. And the person responds, oh, actually I can't help you find it, I'm cheating on my wife right now, like obviously no one's going to say that, but if somebody admitted it, so obviously. But it was because you had a conversation that and you know, led them to admit it. Does the same thing apply or no?

[B]

Okay, so on a case like that. That's an interesting question because on a case like that, for instance, a domestic case is usually, usually have a husband or a wife who's hired you and they want you to get that information. And so if you obtain that information in at least in the state of Florida, I can't record a conversation like that, not legally. And so you need two party consent. So I would not be able to record that. But I could report back to my client and say this is what they said. Could I prove it? No. Could they go to their attorney and say, well, he said he was cheating on me so I want more alimony or whatever. Could that be used? No, but you can say that and get that information for sure. But as far as, let's say an insurance fraud claim where this person is represented by an attorney and you go in and start talking to them and they start sharing about their case, now you're kind of breaching the lines of ethics. And you know, it's kind of illegal to talk to someone and without. Without them knowing who you are, because now it's not. They're giving you a statement, if you will, about the case without their attorney present, not realizing who you are, which is kind of outside of the bounds of ethical.

[A]

Yeah. And not as helpful in the case there. That feels like it would be easier to.

[B]

Yeah, easier. Yep.

[A]

So what's the point?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Interesting. Interesting.

[B]

It's very nuanced, but yeah, things like that are very. I would rather get less and have it. And have it stick. Yeah. And make sure that when I go to court and when I testify on my video, when I testify on my specific case, I'm going to be able to say that I did everything the right way. They're going to say they're not going to be able to throw anything out or, you know, question anything I did, period.

[A]

I love you. I love learning from you. You're very good at what you do.

[B]

Thank you. But I have. I have had so many questions. I. About, like, in la, how private investigators work. So that was really. It was really cool to talk to Ken.

[A]

Yeah. Very fascinating. It's an oversaturated market. Not as lucrat as you think. His advice was hilarious. And it's tough. I mean, it's true. We glorify what you do. It's fun. It's cool. You're like spies. But it's a lot more work than we think, so.

[B]

And there's. You gotta be like. I know for me, I have fun with it, and I kind of be silly with it and put on my makeup and stuff. But it is really a job where you do have to. You gotta have some brains, too. It's not, you know, you gotta see everything. Oh, I could go be a PI and play with makeup. Like. Yeah, you could. But also gotta have some brains. Like, we're. We're smart, too.

[A]

No kidding. Oh, my gosh. And guts. You have to be.

[B]

You gotta have moxie. You gotta be bold. You gotta be brave. You. Isn't that a song? You gotta be bold. You gotta.

[A]

You gotta be bad. You gotta be wise. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Anyway. Oh, man. Anything else we didn't talk about from his story?

[B]

I don't think so. I'm curious to know what. What. What questions our audience has for Ken. We would love to relay them to him and see if he can answer them or if you have any positive feedback if you want an investigator in the SoCal. Why do I feel so cool saying SoCal in the SoCal area? Ken. Ken Child's Paramount Investigative Services. So, yeah, reach out to him.

[A]

And also, if you are a PI or, you know, a PI and want to come on and share a dogfish story, I would love to hear from you.

[B]

Yeah, we. I. I like the idea. Like, I'm falling in love with the idea of showing that PIs are real. This is a real job. It's something real that even women can do. Men, Women, whoever. And so I kind of. I like hearing from other PIs. I think it just kind of. I don't. It kind of shows like, hey, this. You can do this job. And it's a cool path for a young lady or. Or a dude, too. But in my case, it was. I was a young lady, and I.

[A]

You know, and look at you now.

[B]

Look at me go.

[A]

This is. Yeah, it's a wild. It's a wildlife. Thank you for sharing it with us. And thank you guys for being so excited to hear these stories because some of them are like this. Some of them are really just kind of fun follow along the case. And then others, when we're really connecting with survivors of a lot of heavy stuff, I think it really brings. Brings us together and makes us safer. So 100.

[B]

Yeah. I'm dying to know what you guys think about Ken, so continue to share Dating Detectives on your socials, please. It's so cool when you guys share and somebody says, I saw this on my friends stories and they're like, oh my gosh, I have a dogfish story. And oh my gosh, I'm so glad to know I wasn't on my own.

[A]

Oh my gosh, what the heck is a dogfish? And then they learn.

[B]

Yeah, but it's the sense of community that we create and it's all because you guys are sharing and talking about our podcast. So thank you so much and make sure keep giving us those five star reviews and they mean the world to us. And any kind comments you want to add or. We appreciate you guys so much. Thank you.

[A]

Well, that's. That's a wrap. Thanks, Barbie and Ken P. I. Barbie.

[B]

PI Ken, Barbie, we love you guys and as always, trust your intuition.

[C]

Love it.

[B]

Sam.