← The Dating Detectives
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- [00:00]
A
The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-6-7233 for support. Happy Dating Detectives Monday.
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B
It's national holiday every week. Happy Dating Detectives Monday.
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C
Woohoo.
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A
We have an exciting episode. It's mackenzie Undercover, but we're joined with an amazing guest. Her name is Talia Corin and she's the host of the podcast Dating Intentionally, and which.
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B
I really love that word intentionally. We don't talk about that enough.
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A
No, for real. Especially with apps, it feels like a game on your phone. Like you can just sit on the toilet and spray.
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B
Yes.
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A
That's not intentional, everyone. But Dating Intentionally is a dating podcast. Obviously, a lot of great advice. She gives such great advice on this episode. Very practical advice. We love it. We think you'll all love it too. And all the information on her show will be in the show notes. But today she joined us for one of your MacKenzie undercover stories and gave her thoughts on all the crazy.
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B
Yeah, and I love getting other people's thoughts too. Cause usually they're like, wait, what? And it's usually pretty rad.
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A
Oh, yeah. And it was nice to get her dating advice because, you know, we're not technically like a dating advice show. It comes up. But mostly we're like a safety advice in love and self love show. But she was like coming in with the tough love dating advice sometimes, which I appreciated.
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B
Yes, for sure. So. So let's give it. Let's. Let's take it away on a McKenzie undercover and let's see what Talia thinks.
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A
Hello. Hello.
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B
Hi, Talia. I'm so glad you're here.
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A
We have a guest today.
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C
Thank you guys for having me. Thank you.
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A
I was just saying how excited I am that you're here because you give such good dating advice and I could use some. And I think other people will too. But we said it a little bit. You're the host of Dating Intentionally podcast, which I saw how. Why you started it. I think it's so cute. You were like, before I met my husband, I was dating and I was having so much fun, but everybody else said they hated dating. So I wanted to figure out A way to help them have fun too.
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B
I love that.
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C
That's right. I am so excited to hear whatever story you have today, because I've just been binging your show nonstop, and I wanted to share up front. Like, when I was. I met over 50 people on dating apps, and I don't really have a dogfish story that I know of. It's very possible that I was. But I cut things off so early that I just didn't. Maybe I just didn't. Yeah, Like, I didn't run into that.
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A
Well, that's the goal. I mean, I'm excited to talk to you. We'll go through. We're doing MacKenzie undercover, obviously. So as we go through, please jump in with your thoughts on the relationships that come up. If there are any, you know, red flags or just things that we can learn from.
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C
For sure.
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B
Hannah's so excited. I can see her face, and she's like, yes, go. So I do a lot of insurance fraud cases, by the way. That's actually how I got started was an insurance fraud, which is like, you know, oh, my neck and my back. And then you hire an attorney, they try to get you millions of billions of dollars or whatever. And so I've worked for the last 20 years very closely with insurance claims adjusters and attorneys. And so these are people that I just have in my Rolodex. Now that you've worked with. You've worked hundreds of cases for these folks, and they just. They know you. They request you to work their cases. They just become professional friends. Right. There's an attorney that I had done work for who was the attorney for a major insurance company. And he reached out to me personally and asked if I would help him on a domestic case for him. And I was concerned about conflict of interest. Cause I've done work for him professionally, but it wasn't for him. It was for the company. And so he was representing the company. And so we decided this is something we could work together on. We'd never worked together personally, so it would be fine. So we call this a domestic case, which is something where it's personal. So those can be child custody, they can be cheating cases, missing family members, stuff like that. Something that's domestic. So he asked me if I would help him. And he says that he has a girlfriend. It's a longtime girlfriend, and she is in her 30s. He is in his 50s, so he's significantly older than her. And they've been together for about two years. They live together, and so he knows her pretty well. And when he. As soon as he reached out to me, like, I trust this guy. He has good instincts. He's an attorney. He's a smart fella. So I knew that if this guy's calling me, there's something up. And so I'm like, for sure something's going on. I'm just gonna help him out. So he says he thinks his girlfriend is cheating on him because she's doing the thing. That is the typical standard complaints that I get from someone who thinks their spouse is cheating.
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A
Hannah, what are they hiding their phone on allotted time? Would that be like, he doesn't know where she's going?
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B
Yeah. So he's saying she's being real secretive with her phone. The intimacy isn't there as much. She.
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A
Okay.
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B
She's pulling away. She seems distant, a little standoffish. Like, total red flags.
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A
Talia, what do you think about if you're in a relationship and you call a PI on your phone?
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B
Good question.
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C
I mean, I'm curious. Like, did he talk to her about it at all before bringing someone in? Like, did he mention, like, hey, I've no notice even hiding your phone? Or, like, is something up? Like, I just, like, I feel like there's a step there of calling it out. So I'm wondering if he.
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A
Yeah. Is this the last step or. Or the first step?
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C
Yeah, I don't think that this isn't the first step.
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B
So that's actually a good question. So here's where, like, as soon as I decided to take him on as a client, I asked him the same thing. Have you talked to her? Is there just a suspicion or what? He says, well, I don't want to talk to her about it because I don't want her to feel insecure. We've had conversations about our past relationships where there have been trust concerns. And so if nothing's going on, I don't want to risk mentioning something. And so I'd rather just find out ahead of time without asking her so that she doesn't feel like I don't trust her, which has been her issue in the past.
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A
Interesting.
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B
Yeah.
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C
So that dynamic already, lots of red flags on both sides at this point.
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B
I'm like, okay, he's much older. She's younger. She's gorgeous. I mean, model gorgeous. But this guy, he makes a lot of money. He's an attorney, you know, So I imagine that has maybe a little bit to do with it. Maybe I'm just being a jerk and assuming incorrectly. But she's a 10, and he. I think he Knows it. So I think he was feeling a little insecure. That was my gut feeling at first. But I was like, I understood why, like, obviously communication is key. But he was like, because she had that issue in the past, he didn't want to create problems if there wasn't any. He just wanted to find out first. And so I kind of understood that.
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C
Okay. But I'm just like, just because someone has had issues in the past doesn't mean you can't ever touch those. Like, Right. She would need to know that just because, like, her past issues don't really have anything to do with her current relationship.
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B
Right.
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C
At all. So, yeah, that's true.
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A
But I also love that Mackenzie's employed. So if he called you, that's okay.
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B
Right? So get.
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A
Get your bag, girl.
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B
Job security. Job security. So typical standard complaint. She's being distant, whatever, and he does not want to talk to her about it. So on Tuesday nights, she goes to a girls night, and they go to one of the girls houses or they go to a restaurant and they might have a little wine. And she does this every week. But he was like, I. For some reason, I just think that's not what she's doing. And he knows better than to try and do it himself. Like, never follow anyone by yourself. That's illegal. That's called stalking or harassment. You can get a lot of trouble. So he knows if he wants to find out, like, this is a way to do it legally and he has the money, I think. So whatever. Pay a PI let's see what happens. So I do a surveillance on the days that he thinks she's going to be somewhere that she says she's not. So I let him call the shots. He's the client. I said, you can do this one of two ways. You can let me choose the surveillance days and do something totally random and just see if there's a random thing. But usually with a domestic case, the. The partner knows, like, they say they're going to be doing this on this date. I want to see what they're doing during that time. So obviously, we do one of the surveillances on the Tuesday, and I follow her from work. She goes home, she changes, and he's still at work, so he's not there. She goes to the girlfriend's house, and she's there with the other two ladies. I can't go inside the house, obviously, to see who else is there, but there's the other two ladies. They walk each other out to the car. You know, hey, girl. Bye, girl. Love you kissy, kissy, whatever. And so she leaves and goes back home. And she's. She's home by like midnight. And then he's home by that time. So I do surveillance on four different days, and she's doing everything she says she's doing. We did a surveillance on two of the girls nights and then two other dinners or events that she had with other people or whatever, work stuff. And he said, these are the times that you should go. And so I did surveillance. And I was like, everything's on the up and up, man. And during this time, she's still being really secretive. He just doesn't feel right. He knows that something is wrong. But I'm doing these surveillances and I'm like, dude, based on the information you're giving me, based on these times that you feel the most suspicious, nothing's happening. Like, she went to the gym. Nothing's out of order. As a matter of fact, more than one of the times that she went out with the girlfriends, they ended up changing their plans. But then once she came home, she told him, oh, we, we were going to so and so's house, but we ended up going here. And they, you know, nothing fishy. Yeah, like, he thinks he caught her in the act and didn't.
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A
While you're surveilling her, this might not. You might not have access to this, but, like, are you picking up anything about her personality? Do they seem like they'd be a good couple based on what you know of her, or are you not able to kind of?
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B
No, you can really see her. So you know how people change. Like, I could see her around her girlfriends and she was really like, laughing and giddy and silly and all of these things. But then one day she had met up with her mom for something and she's very, like, low key. They just met up at the post office to do something. And so you can kind of tell like, how people are, you know?
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C
Right.
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B
You can tell she's. When she's with her girlfriend, she's a little bit more let loose, which most, most of us are. But other than that, unless they show something super crazy. You know what I mean?
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A
But there's no. So there's no like, personality indication that anything's off in your mind at that point?
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B
Not really, but that's a good question, because there are sometimes when I'm doing a surveillance and my spidey senses are just tingling and I'm like, she's doing the thing that people do when they do this or whatever. And so you can kind of, like, pick up on it. And the way that people move, the way they talk, the way they act, and it's. It's really interesting, especially after 20 years, just, like, watching people so that it. That can be something that you pick up on. But for her, it was just. She wasn't like. I was just a little bit bored with it, and it was just like, I don't think, like, this is. This is fine.
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A
I feel like that's such a compliment.
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C
But isn't this, like, good news for your guy?
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B
Yeah. Right. Like. And Obviously, this isn't 247 surveillance, so there could be things happening outside of my surveillance period that we don't know. But for the most part, she's not doing anything that he thinks is. Is wackadoo. Right? So him and I decide together that perhaps there's literally just nothing going on. And I try to not put my opinion into things. I'm just Paul Blart, okay? Small cop. Document report. So I'm like, listen, you decide what you want, but based on the surveillance that I did, this is literally what happened. He's like, well, what do you think? And I'm like, I think that everything that I documented shows that she's doing what she says she's doing.
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A
Maybe she's planning a surprise party for you. Right?
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B
Mind your business.
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A
That's my. My glass half full.
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B
Yeah. And so he pays me for four days. That's 32 hours of surveillance. Right? And surveillance is like, 100, $150 an hour, sometimes even more. Okay, so this guy's paid a good chunk of change. And so you want to find them results, because people feel happy when they assume something, and then they're like, aha, Gotcha. Like, they love those gotcha moments. But when they've paid all that money and there's no results, they kind of feel like an asshole.
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A
Right?
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B
They feel like, well, that's stupid. Yeah. So what would you.
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A
What are your thoughts on their relationship at this point? Like, Talia, what would you. If he was your friend?
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C
So, okay, my thought, like, I don't. I have like, a.
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B
Just.
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C
I think.
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B
I know.
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C
I think. I don't know where this is going, but right now I'm like, okay, maybe she's chatting with someone on her phone. It's not that she's going to see anyone. Maybe there's a. Just a messaging relationship or that kind of infidelity going on or something completely unrelated to dating, and it's like something else secret that she's hiding on her phone that she's doing, like addict. An addiction to a. A game? I don't know.
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B
Yes. No, that happens too. Porn addiction, gambling addiction. I like all of that stuff totally.
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C
But the whole living together and not being able to just talk about everything is the biggest red flag so far to me.
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B
Yes. No, I 100% agree. But so he's like, all right, I'll just keep an eye on it. And I guess I'll just check myself and just try to chalk it up to me being insecure. And then he's admitting to me because of their age gap. He's like, she's a beautiful woman. She's. She's younger than me. And so maybe I'm just feeling insecure and I'm not getting a lot of validation that I need. So this is probably just that. So he's putting it on himself and taking accountability for maybe just feeling insecure, feeling some type of way. And so my spidey senses are like, he's probably right because now I'm going with his gut, like what his feeling is. And I'm like, if he's feeling like that's what it is, then maybe that. So then my spidey senses were not tingling. But again, he couldn't explain why she was being so secretive and hiding her phone and just standoffish and weird. So he says he's just going to get a grip. He said, I'm going to work on myself and my confidence and maybe that'll help. And you know, it just seems like everything is fine, I guess. So he's gonna give her the benefit of the doubt. So he's never gonna tell her. He said, I'm not gonna tell her that I was checking up on her and literally just said, it's gotta be my insecurities. And that would be embarrassing to me to show her how insecure I am because that would be a turn off for her. So all these things, he's got a
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A
lot to work on.
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B
He does.
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A
But said with love. Said with love.
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B
But that's like, sometimes that happens. You get an insecurity or you get an insecure thought and you're like, let me follow up on this. And sometimes it's nothing. And I do the like, that's happened to me too. And I think it's hard for people to admit that they are feeling insecure. Especially men that I've worked with. The men really struggle with that. A lot of women that I work with, they're happy to admit they were just feeling jealous or whatever. And so I think that's interesting that as a man, he was willing to say, I'm just feeling super insecure. True. Most men, a lot of men will act like I'm lying to them or I didn't do a good enough job, or I failed in catching their partner in the act because I'm not a good investigator. A lot of men will chalk it up to that. They'll be like, well, you just didn't find her because of this. Like, you're just not good enough and whatever. And they'll blame me. And I get that because you're spending money and not getting any results. Like, I'd be pissed too, but not at me. Like, sorry. Like, you know what I mean?
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C
Right.
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B
Part of the job. Sometimes you don't catch up.
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C
That's wild.
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B
I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. You guys, can we talk about Wayfair? Hannah, I know you love Wayfair.
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A
I'm sitting in my Wayfair chair right now. I needed a very specific chair because I'm staying at my mom's for a couple months. I wanted to record this podcast without getting back pain. And I needed it to, like, fit in a corner and kind of swivel around. But I didn't want it to look cheap.
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B
There's so many options. That's where my vanity chair came from. They're so comfortable. I love them. And it's pink and they have different colors and styles of everything. Wayfair is a great way to refresh your space and make your home. Oh, or office work better for you. And it doesn't matter what your aesthetic is. Mid century, modern, farmhouse, contemporary, eclectic, or Barbie.
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A
They've got Barbie, baby.
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B
They really do. Whether it's organization or home projects, kid spaces, or again, work from home, which is what I know about Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down exactly what works for you and your style and your budget.
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A
Yeah, any budget you want. It's all great quality.
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B
And they have installation and assembly services available for a truly seamless experience. And there's thousands of five star reviews that help you shop with confidence. So if you're someone like me, who I need to know what everyone else thought, that's. That's really great. So you can find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's Wayfair. W A Y F e a I r.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
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C
Stitch fix.
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B
Shopping is hard. Let's talk about it. I don't have time to shop, so
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A
I buy all my clothes where I buy my seafood.
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B
I just want someone to tell me
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C
what shirt goes with what pants. I just want jeans that fit. Stitch Fix makes shopping easy. Just show your size, style and budget and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. No subscription required, plus free shipping and returns.
- [17:38]
B
Man, that was easy.
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A
That looked good. Stitch Fix Online personal styling for everyone.
- [17:43]
C
Take your style quiz today@stitchfix.com
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B
but he was very self aware. He was willing to look inward and consider maybe she wasn't just cheating. But I want to add that he has had a history of being cheated on by past partners. So I could see how if you're constantly getting cheated on, you think everyone's cheating on you, and so that contributes to your insecurity. And this is his girlfriend, not his wife, so maybe it's that too. But he said they've been talking about marriage and he's.
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A
He, that'll solve everything, right?
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B
He's scared to take that step because if there's ever a potential for her cheating and they're married and then he has to give away everything he's worked for. And so now he's thinking maybe it's because I haven't moved forward with any marriage situations, that maybe she's cheating on me. So he just has a lot, a lot going on that he needs to work out. Okay, so we decide let's hang up the surveillance, we'll call it a day. But I said, let me know if we need to re re readdress this like we can. I'm happy to help. So I don't hear from him for a couple of months and where I'm just, you know, minding somebody else's business. And I get a call from him. It's been like four or five months and at this point he's feeling super dumb. But he said, and he tells me, he's like, I feel really stupid. But now it's the opposite. She's acting super clingy. She's over sharing. She's more emotional, overly willing to share what she's doing, where she's going. He said, now wait, Ta.
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A
Why are you nodding so profusely?
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C
This was earlier when we were talking about like signs. Like, Hannah, you were saying signs that he, she could be cheating. This is actually the sign I was looking for of like, sometimes people are hiding something. They are going to overcompensate and shower the other person with love. Yes, to h. To Cover it up. So this is a sign I was looking for.
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B
Yes. And it's not, it's not love, it's actually guilt that they're feeling. And so they're, like you said, they're overcompensating. But the problem is now he's already done a surveillance and didn't catch her doing anything and actually discovered the things that he thought were weird weren't actually weird. And so now he feels silly for calling me again. But he's losing his mind over this because he knows he's. He said she's doing too much. And as an attorney, I know people, I talk to people, I deal with people. And it just feels like she's trying too hard. Extremely attentive to him. Constant check ins, unexpected affection, more intimacy and constantly seeking reassurance, all this stuff. And he said she would, she started coming home from every event, she would like sit on his lap and love on him. And she never did that before. So now he's the opposite. Strike Spidey tingles. Okay. And the one thing that he did notice while she got more affectionate, the one note, the one change that he noticed was on her phone. The text settings. Where, you know how when you get a text on iPhone, probably Android too, and it'll show up on the top of the screen, but it'll show the first few words of the text like hey, I'm going to. And you, you have to click into it to. But to click into it, you have to unlock the phone, whatever. He said that he noticed that her settings changed, that it no longer shows the summary of the text, it just shows, hey, you have a TE message. And so the, the settings have changed. So now if a text message comes in, it just says text message. It doesn't say who it's from, it doesn't show a summary or anything. And he said so that doesn't appear on the lock screen anymore and it doesn't say from who or whatever. So obviously he can't tell who the message is from and he can't prove anything from that. But he did notice that she changed it because before, like I said, it would come across and show a little bit of the text and he, it was just something. I think he's man tuition and I think that's stuff you just notice sometimes. So it wasn't super suspicious to him because whatever, he couldn't tell from what the tech said, he couldn't tell who it was from anybody, if it was from anybody bad or so he just didn't think Anything of it. He's like, well, she's being overly everything else. This is the only thing she's changed. And he already feels dumb from the first surveillance not catching her. And so he's dumbing down. Like, he's making everything seem less now. So he decides he wants me to do more surveillance on her, Check on her on her girl's night out. Just try to find anything she's doing that's off. So I ask him. I always ask, like, what's your budget? What do you want to plan for? What do you want to do? And he says, let's do another three days of surveillance. I want to see what she's doing on a girls night just to make sure. Like, just something's Something again is off. She has an event on this day. I want to go check, whatever. So he wants me to go do the girls night. Girls night was totally on the up and up. They go to a movie, her and her two little girlfriends. Everything seems perfectly normal. Nothing to report. The movie was dumb. Like, I was bored to tears. Like, I just wanted to sit in the theater. Yeah. I wanted to go in and make sure they weren't meeting fellas there. Like, I don't know.
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A
That would be a great place to have a sneaky little.
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B
Yeah. And, like, you can meet your little boyfriend inside the theater. No one has to know. It's fine. But nothing.
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C
So, you know, her taste in movies is bad. Okay?
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B
Oh, my God. I can't even remember the movie. But I was like, how. Wait. Wake me up when it's over. Like, it was awful. But I will say that they did have wine in their purse. And I really thought that was awesome. Like, I was like, good for y'.
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C
All. We could. Wine. They're doing it, right?
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B
You're. It's. Anyway, so they. They go to the movies. Nothing. She goes home after the second day of surveillance. She says that she has an event at some charity organization, right? And he says, listen, she's never wanted to do anything with charity a day in her life.
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A
He's like, listen, she's not a good person. This is really weird. He's like, she wants to do Char.
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B
Pretty is just something she's never been a part of. Like, she's never shown interest. And she was. She's gonna take her whole Saturday, which she normally goes shopping or gets a pedicure, and she's gonna give up a whole Saturday to go do this charity event. And he said, something must be wrong. Something's off. Like, there's no way. And I do surveillance on her. So she gets there, and I go into this charity event place, and I'm seeing what she's doing in the silent auctions, and she is working her tail off the whole day. She talks to anybody who walks up. She's not on her phone. She's. She is working this charity event. Like, she is volunteering her time, and that's what she does the whole day. And I document it. There's nothing weird, nothing funny, suspicious, awkward, off, different. It was just. It was fine. Like, she was just doing charity. She was doing volunteer work. And so then she goes home to him and that he's. She gets home and he's home. His car's driver. Her car's in the driveway. They're both there. And she was literally just giving her volunteer time to this organization, right? I document her all day. I literally. There was nothing. I watched her work all day long. So he's insistent that I do surveillance on her after work and on the weekends and just any time to, like, see what she's doing, and I try.
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A
This reminds me of, you know, the meme that's, like, men will do literally anything before going to therapy.
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C
That's what I've been thinking this whole time. That's what I've been thinking.
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A
Specifically, couples therapy. He'll spend this much money on a PI before just having a conversation.
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C
Not even couples therapy, but just having a conversation.
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B
Right? All of this could have been avoided. Like, you could.
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A
Like, why would you even want to stay in a relationship where you are constantly like, she's not there. She's lying to me. She's lying to me. Like, there's just. That's not a good. It's been. How long has it been since he first called you? At least six months now.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah. Yep. That's a long time to feel conscious. And he's obviously feeling insecure the whole time. But I trust this guy because I'm like. I've worked with him for so long. But here's the thing. This guy keeps telling me, I want you to do surveillance on this time. This time. Listen, fella, I've been a PI for 20 years, okay? You gonna have to let me do this job at some point, okay? You can tell me when to go and what to do and all this stuff, and that's fine. It's your money, I ain't your mama, do whatever you want. But at some point, I recommend, I say, listen, I'm gonna need you to back off, give me the case, and just trust me. And he's like, well, what? Southern comes out, girl. My southern came out. I said, honey, listen, you got to just sit down and just let me do what I'm gonna do. He said, well, what are you gonna do? And I said, I'm gonna do surveillance on her at her work. I want to see what she does from morning to night, the whole day. Because if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got. And so far, we ain't got nothing, so we're gonna change it up, okay? So I said, I'm gonna do surveillance on her at work. He says, no, you're not. She's not doing anything at work. Don't be silly. And so I'm like, all right, listen. If nothing happens at work, this surveillance is on me. This day of surveillance is on me.
- [26:25]
C
Oh.
- [26:26]
B
I said, I bet you dollars to donuts I'm gonna get some information, and I'm gonna find out. So you're gonna have to let me take the reins on this, buddy. So just got to give it up. He's like, all right, I trust you. I said, we've been working together a long time. I've saved you millions of dollars in your little company from these surveillances. Like, you got. Trust me. I want to see who she's talking to, what she does, where she goes. Where does she go for lunch? What does she do? I said, I've worked a bazillion cases for you. Like, just trust me. You know, I know my stuff. He says, okay, I trust you. He's a lawyer, so of course he doesn't trust anyone. But I'm like, dude, you called me. Let me do my job.
- [27:00]
A
Can you tell us what she does for work or.
- [27:02]
B
Yeah, so she works at a 9 to 5 job at, like, let's just call it an electrical type company. Just 9 to 5 office job in a little industrial area. Like, nothing crazy.
- [27:17]
A
Deleteme makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. I think I've gotten, like, four texts in the past 24 hours that are scam texts. Mackenzie. I feel like it's worse than ever.
- [27:35]
B
They're popping up everywhere for everyone. And the problem is people are falling for these scams, and it's putting them at risk.
- [27:43]
A
Why are they getting my information? Like, how come it's so easy for them to find me?
- [27:48]
B
So let's talk about data brokers. Data brokers make a profit off of your data. So data brokers Basically, scour the Internet and collect your public information from public records and compile it and then charge somebody to find it. So your data, as we know, is a commodity. And any on the web can buy your private details from these data brokers. And again, this can lead to identity theft, phishing attempts, harassment. But you can protect your privacy with Delete Me. And the New York Times wirecutter named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services. What Delete Me does is they find the information that that's on the Internet that you don't want out there and they eliminate it from the Internet. Privacy is so important. And that's where Delete Me comes in. You get a subscription, they send you a monthly report of what they found, what they eliminated, and they keep you up to date. And it, for me, I use it and it makes me feel a little bit safer.
- [28:44]
A
Yeah, it's a great first step to protecting yourself.
- [28:47]
B
Take control of your data. Keep your private life private. By signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan. When you go to JoinDeleteMe.com dating detectives and use promo code TDD at checkout, the only way to get 20 off is go to JoinDeleteMe.com Dating Detectives and enter code TDD at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com datingdetectives code TDD. So I follow her to work from the house that morning. She gets to work and pulls into the parking lot and she parks the car just normal. I can see that she's fixing her lipstick. I can see that she's sitting in the car just like gathering her stuff. Like, you know, it's almost 9 o'. Clock. She's got to go inside in a few minutes. Well, there was other cars pulling in and people are going inside. This one particular car pulls in and a guy gets out of the car and then she gets out of the car and they start walking in and I'm like, same time or is this a coincidence? Or is the same time? This is the same time. And I knew it. I was like, take that tag number. So I write down his tag number and I, I pull up so I could drive by to videotape them walking inside together. And I want to zoom in on the guy's face so I can see if I can identify him.
- [30:03]
A
So what made you think they weren't just like coworkers?
- [30:06]
B
No, there's, there's a, there's a spidey. You get tingles up your spine, and you can feel it. It's just this weird.
- [30:13]
A
No, I get it. It's the same way that any time I feel like any of my exes, like, if they had a thing with a girl, like a friend or something, I just always knew.
- [30:21]
B
You just know.
- [30:21]
A
Like, before I had this info, I just. A little bit.
- [30:25]
B
I just. You just know. And this ain't my first rodeo. I said, I. That's. This. This guy is something. Like there's something going on with this fella. And so I take his tag number. They walk into the building, I videotape, and I zoom in on his face because he turns to the side, he holds the door for her. She goes in. And so now I have his tag number. So I go on the machine real quick, and I find his name, find his address, and I'm doing all the research, and I'm looking on his social media, and I'm finding him, sure enough, confirm that it's the same guy driving. So now I know the driver of a car is the guy that walked her in. And on his social media, like, he's married, he's got kids, you know, whatever. So I'm like, okay, Mackenzie, let's slow down, turbo. Let's not assume nothing. We don't assume nothing ever. So I'm like, I want to sit here during lunchtime. So now, like, my guts are rumbling like, I've got, like, I am anxiety because I'm like, they are doing something at lunch. Watch. I said, just watch. And I knew it. And I said, I'm not about to give away this surveillance for free. No, ma'. Am. And so I'm sitting there all day, and I'm crushing candy, and I'm doing my makeup until lunchtime. And sure enough, they come out at lunchtime, and they weren't holding hands or kissing or nothing because they're at work. But my spidey senses, making my spine tingle, my butthole was puckered. Is a whole big thing. So at lunchtime, I was like, this man's man. Tuition is about to be proven right right here come lunchtime. And sure as the day is long, they come out together. A whole bunch of people come out. They're taking their cars, and they're going to the Taco Bell or the gas station up the road for lunch. They're coming out smoking cigarettes, whatever. These two. They walk across the parking lot into. There's like a. Like a wooded area where there's, like, a picnic table where you can sit or whatever. And it's Like a. It's just like a. Like in the. In the. Like a shaded seat area, whatever.
- [32:13]
A
Well, they're imagining. Why am I imagining, like, twilight when they, like, walk off into the.
- [32:17]
C
Me too. I'm like, imagining, like, a dense wood. But it's like a park, right? Or, like.
- [32:21]
B
Yeah, it's like a. It's just like a parking lot. And the areas that aren't paved is grass and trees. And there's a picnic table there. Like, it's. It's an industrial area. And so where they built it was.
- [32:30]
A
She's not, like, leading her into the forest.
- [32:32]
B
So they go. And they go to this picnic table, and I'm like, here we go. Now, I couldn't see very well because the picnic table is behind all these trees, but I could see enough. And now I can see that he's sitting on the table with his feet. Feet on the bench. And she's facing him. She's got her hands on his knees. And I'm like, that's not correct. And so I knew right then. I was like, this is it. This is our moment. This is our big. Our big moment.
- [32:59]
A
So where are you? Are you still in your car? Do you get out?
- [33:01]
B
I'm still in my car. And by this point, when they started walking over that way, I had to move my car because I couldn't see because I was close to the building. And there was, like, a row of cars and then another row of cars and then the trees. And so I had to move my car. And so all these cars are moving around. It's lunchtime. So I move my car, I get in a position where I could see through, and sure enough, I zoom into those woods. And you can see, like, there's trees covering them. So there's little pockets of, like, not leaves and not limbs and not branches. So there's little pockets of visuals where you can see. And so I'm zooming into them. So at one point, I got, like. You couldn't see her face, but you could see her from, like, her armpit down to, like, her hip. And you can see that she's, like, rubbing his leg. And so then I'm, like, catching different stuff, snippets of them, and. Oh, God, by this point, I'm like, they're feeling each other up on the picnic table, and they're away from the building, not facing any windows at this point. So nobody could really see them. So they're kind of hidden, and nobody's out there. And so they are just, like, out here, all willy Nilly in front of God, and everybody just in the trees, you know, having little feelsies. And I couldn't tell if they were kissing until a stiff wind comes by, and the trees go whoosh. And you see them, and I'm like, no way. Because their faces were covered, and, like, you couldn't see. All they could see were, like, those little pockets.
- [34:14]
C
Oh, my God.
- [34:14]
B
And so the lit. Literally, the Lord said, hold on, let me help you out. And then whoosh. And so the trees move, and you just see that they're necking and kissing. And I'm like, oh, man. He was right. And I felt so bad because I didn't believe him at first, but then I knew it. I was like, if she's not doing anything outside of work, then there's something going on at work. Like, something. There's. He's feeling something. And so I trusted that.
- [34:38]
C
Right.
- [34:38]
B
Bummer. I know. And so. And I was like. I was not ready to give away. I was like, I'm gonna have to do. Like, I'm have to give away the surveillance. But I was right. And I knew it. I was like, you're like, I'm happy,
- [34:49]
A
but I'm also not happy.
- [34:51]
B
Yeah.
- [34:51]
A
Like, this isn't because you feel bad.
- [34:53]
B
And, like, that's the worst thing to tell somebody. So anyways, they're neck.
- [34:56]
A
And wait. One thing. You do feel bad, but there is, like, a. There's a weirdly good feeling about being right about those things. And that's an interesting. It comes up all the time with guests.
- [35:09]
B
Like, when.
- [35:09]
C
Well, especially if you have had anxiety about it for so long.
- [35:13]
B
Yes.
- [35:13]
C
It sucks that you have to get an answer in this way, but it's, like, nice. It's like you're. It's like your anxiety was right. Sometimes your anxiety isn't right.
- [35:20]
A
Yeah.
- [35:21]
B
And sometimes it could be the most devastating news ever. But as soon as you get that confirmation, there's a relief. There's something that happens. It's just like, thank God. Like. Like you're competitive and you're like, yes, I knew it.
- [35:33]
A
Or I'm not crazy.
- [35:34]
B
Yeah. Yes, exactly. I'm not crazy. I wasn't imagining this. This is for real. And so anyways, the lunch break is happening, and people are driving in and out of the parking lot. They've left the workplace to go to Taco Bell or McDonald's or the gas station or wherever. Now people are coming back, and they're starting to cut. There's a lot of traffic going on the parking lot. Well, they decide they're going to go over to his car and get in it. So this has happened. I can't. I cannot tell you how many times, a ton of times. They get into his car and they're doing whatever they do, which I can't see in the car because it's Florida. Everybody got their windows tinted, but they get in the car and then they get out of the car. Close to time to going back to, to work, and they're fixing their pants and their skirts and they're fixing their hair and all this stuff. Getting out of the car. And she will. So she gets out of his car, she fixes herself and starts walking towards his car. He gets out of his car and starts fixing himself. She gets into her car, fixes herself more because her windows were less tinted. I could see what she was doing. Put on her lipstick again, fixing herself. And then he walks in, and then she walks in behind him. They didn't walk in together this time. Like, that's not stealthy, guys. Yeah, very stealthy. So it turns out.
- [36:46]
C
I disagree. I think this is not stealthy at all.
- [36:48]
A
No, no, exactly.
- [36:50]
C
I'm like, I'm surprised at, like, how not stealthy. See this?
- [36:53]
B
Not a selfie at all. No one saw us. Okay. Like, hello, we can see you getting
- [37:00]
A
out of the one car.
- [37:02]
B
And I would like to point out that these cars were parked up against a building where all the windows of the building were. Anybody could have seen. Maybe they just know who works at those desks and they don't care. I don't know.
- [37:12]
A
Well, I feel like that's such good office gossip. Like, if the office kind of is.
- [37:16]
B
Oh, they got in the car.
- [37:18]
A
That just gets them through the day.
- [37:20]
B
Well, here's the kicker. My client has been so insecure about everything, and he's like, this gotta be, like, the age, the age thing. She's very beautiful. She's much younger than me. Maybe she is with me for my money. So I presented this information to him and I told him, I said, fella, you were right. And I was right.
- [37:41]
A
Did you call him? Did you do it in person? Yeah. That's so hard.
- [37:44]
B
I, I, after they went back inside, I call him and I tell him what I saw. And I took pictures on my phone from my camera. I was just, like, showing him what I had seen or whatever. And that one five, that one five seconds when the wind blew and it, like, spread all the leaves apart and I could see them kissing. That was the only image, the only visual I got of them kissing other than that it was just her hands on him, which is telling also. But so I shared that with him and I said, you were right and I'm so sorry. And normally I'll let you know I would not just call somebody and tell them that, like I would wait till the surveill silence is over, get them in a public place. Because now I don't, like I'm still at this place. Like I don't want him to call her and then they call the cops. I mean, whatever.
- [38:26]
A
Or he shows up there.
- [38:27]
B
Or he shows up there, right? So I normally don't. But I know this guy. I trust this guy. He's a professional. I've worked with him for a lot of years. So I just went ahead and called him. So I share this with him. And when I showed him, like I sent him the pictures while I'm on the phone with him and I said, this is, you know, what I saw or whatever. And I think the worst part is he said, I knew it. I'm too old for her. The guy, the guy at her work was 22 years old. He's like, I knew that I was too old. And now she's with, she's with a child. She went from one extreme to the other. So this, oh, but the, this young guy, he was good looking, he has tattoos, he's very buff, he drives a cool car, like, whatever. And she's in her mid-30s with this 22 year old and she's got this.
- [39:16]
A
I don't even want to have a conversation with a 22 year old.
- [39:18]
B
No, imagine, imagine that is your biggest insecurity. Just to find out that your girl is cheating on you with a 22 year old in his car. Like you're, like you're teenagers. And so he, he was like, I knew it. He had that feeling of like, I just knew it. But also he was devastated and it broke my heart for him. But I will say that the next thing that he said was, thank God I never married her. So it was kind of like a there you go. I think for him it was like an answer. He was like, thank God I never talked about marriage because this is what I'm, you know, I'm glad for this.
- [39:56]
A
I think it's. This was just a classic case of needing to see it because I think he knew the whole time. Obviously he kept pushing to find evidence, but there's a reason he was putting off getting married. It's just so interesting that sometimes we really do need to see.
- [40:11]
C
What do they say? Like, the body knows before the brain dies sometimes.
- [40:14]
B
And your body will physically manifest, like a stomach ache or whatever. And you're like, what's going on? And then you really. I. Yeah, we talked about that. I think the first time with Jenna Jean was in our Jenna Jean episode.
- [40:23]
A
Yeah, she like, was sick with this person.
- [40:26]
B
She was getting physically ill and didn't understand why. And then she was like, oh, my body.
- [40:29]
A
Well, that's what the intuition is. And we don't realize that, like in our brain.
- [40:34]
B
Is this intuition or am I crazy?
- [40:37]
A
It's literally our body recognizing patterns before our brains catch up.
- [40:40]
B
Yes.
- [40:40]
A
Is what it is. That's why it works, is because you do know more than you think you do.
- [40:44]
B
And that's what.
- [40:45]
A
That's the science of intuition.
- [40:46]
B
It's interesting, but I will say that I reached out to him because this was several years ago.
- [40:51]
A
Yes, I need to know.
- [40:52]
B
I reached out to him and I told him, I said, hey, because he's told me he listens to the podcast, like, whatever. And I said, I want to share your story on the podcast. Obviously some details have been changed to keep his anonymity, but I did say that I wanted to share it and he said it was okay. And since that time, he is married, he does have a young son with his wife and he feels so confident. They're in a great marriage and on social media everything's great, all this stuff. But this 22 year old kid was also married and had a baby with his, his wife. On social media, I told him who the other guy was and he, he did not want to have to explain who he was. So he talked to my subject, the woman, and basically said, you're done, I'm done with you. Get out. Like, I do not. He was insecure, but he had the gall to say, hey, get out. I'm not going to deal with this. And so she ended up that shoot through a fit. Yeah, 100. Because that's her cash cow. Right. And so not only that, but now she's with this guy who is married with a child, and now she can't be with him either. And so as far as I know, like, I don't know if she ever told the other guy, like, hey, you've been busted or whatever, but my client is holding on to the information that this guy was with his girlfriend. And I imagine that's like he can kind of do whatever he wants with that. Like, we have video proof, right?
- [42:17]
C
Yeah. Oh, wow.
- [42:19]
B
That's kind of fun.
- [42:20]
C
And I'm glad we have a happy ending. For your client. Like, I'm glad he's married. I just want to know, though, do you know how old his wife is?
- [42:27]
B
His current. His current wife is in her 30s also. She's late. Wait, they met. They met when she was 39. He. He threw her her 40th birthday party, and that's the night she got pregnant. They got married shortly after that, and they've been together all the info. Yeah.
- [42:44]
C
Okay, so that's awesome, because, like, I was thinking, like, this guy cannot date 20 years younger if he is this insecure. And this keeps coming up whether there. You know, there is infidelity or not.
- [42:55]
B
Like, if you're that insecure about him,
- [42:57]
C
like, you need to. It's okay to date, like, women who are in their late 30s, early 40s and over. Like, it's fine.
- [43:06]
B
Yeah. And he seem. I'll be honest. Like, he seems really happy. And he's not heartbroken anymore, obviously. Again, this was years ago. But it does make me happy that he.
- [43:15]
C
He.
- [43:16]
B
I guess, like, the whole thing was. He felt so stupid, but at the end of the day, he trusted his Mantuishan. I think he just knew we didn't catch her with everything. But at the end of the day, I was like, listen, this is our Hail Mary. Let's do surveillance on her at work. And sure enough is a workplace romance. And that's one of the most common infidelities, workplace romances.
- [43:37]
C
Well, that's something I wanted to call out because your client was like, oh, work? Why would you do it at work? Like, obviously. Obviously, bro, that's where it's happening because of what you just said.
- [43:48]
B
And she works for this.
- [43:49]
C
Like, me too.
- [43:49]
B
This is an electrical company. There's not a lot of women who work here. So I imagine for this, other fellows, like, not a choice is more probably of a lack of option. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, whatever.
- [43:59]
A
I guess also, it's just if there is one place where you're like, I am 100% sure that's not where stuff is going down. That is an indicator to think about it more. I feel. I feel for him. And I feel like as much as we were saying, just have a conversation with her. Don't keep paying for a PI to find this stuff. It's like, I hope now in his relationship and all the. Any relationships he had before this marriage, it's like, you have to go through sometimes the relationship where you went through the phone and you shouldn't have. You called the PI you did find cheat like, you do have to go through the spirals in order to learn how to be more secure in relationships, unfortunately. So I get it. I'm. I just feel bad that he spent so much money to find out something he, deep down already knew.
- [44:45]
B
Well, also, ironically enough, before he got into the position he's in now, he actually did family law. And so I think it was smart, like, you know what private investigators can offer. He. He went about it the legal way, he went about it the right way, whatever his man tuition was saying. But I think for him to acknowledge that he. He was insecure, and, you know, he did feel insecure. Insecure about it. But also his. His man tuition was just screaming at him. And I think that's important to know. Like, he. He just knew it, but it's just to kind of get kicked in the nuts with you. You know, you're insecure about being older, and then she's with someone much younger. That must have been really hard.
- [45:21]
A
But honestly, I mean, she downgraded because she's babysitting now if she's with that guy. So, like, right.
- [45:28]
B
There's no way, like, there's he on his social media. He still shows the wife and kids, so I think she got Godspeed, honey.
- [45:36]
A
Yeah, that sounds not fun to me.
- [45:40]
B
But she moved out almost immediately after he. He found out. And also to point out, you're this professional man, and we talk about this all the time on the podcast. People are like, oh, my God, how could I be so stupid? No, you're not stupid. Like, people do. Like, you know what I mean? You're not stupid just because, oh, I'm an attorney. I should have known better. Like, I should have known. No, that's not a thing.
- [45:59]
C
This comes up with dating, too. A lot of my clients would be like, I've been in situationships before. Why am I this? I've been in this before, and it's because our feelings get in the way. Our feelings are very powerful and our desires are very powerful. So it's like, yeah, like, even if you know better, you don't. The feelings get in the way.
- [46:16]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [46:19]
A
Can we go back to talking about, like, the anxiety being right sometimes?
- [46:23]
C
Yeah.
- [46:24]
A
Because he was deeper in the relationship. But I feel like this comes up early in dating, too, where especially now I know people that listen to our show. It's hard to walk away and trust anyone. Like, how can we differentiate between anxiety that's not serving us and good intuition voices. Like, how do we know if someone actually likes us or if they're Love bombing us. How do we trust that we're. You know, how do we trust our femme tuition? As we say, if you have thoughts on that, so I do.
- [46:52]
C
And I think Mackenzie like this answer. I always say, focus on the facts. Like, really zoom out and look at their behavior. Are they showing up in an appropriate way for how long you've known each other? So, like, on the love bombing.
- [47:03]
B
Oh, that's good.
- [47:04]
C
That would be like, Right. So, like, if you've only known each other for three weeks, and they're already saying things like, I've never met anyone like you. That's a huge red flag. You can't say that after knowing someone for three weeks, even though it feels really nice to hear, that's in the love bombing territory. But if they're saying something like, I'm enjoying getting to know you. I'm looking forward to our next date. That's fine. So I think just really looking at the facts of, like, how often are they getting back to me within 24 hours. Cool. Are they answering my questions thoughtfully? Are they showing up present on dates? Like, those are the things we're looking for? Like, okay, no, they're here. They're in it. They like me. And I am enjoying that behavior too. So I always like to just ground myself in reality to differentiate between my intuition and anxiety.
- [47:48]
A
My therapist literally always says that. So good to know that you're both really good. She's always like, Hannah's like, actually, she'll. She'll ask me for evidence when I'm like, this person hates me. She's like, okay, do you have evidence of that? And I'm like, I don't like that question.
- [48:04]
B
But see, for me, like, if you say, do you have evidence? And I'm like, no, it's because I. I've done so many cases where it turns out that I. It was something. I just didn't find anything at that time. And so it's like, do you have evidence? No. No, not yet.
- [48:17]
A
Not yet.
- [48:18]
C
Well, I think in this case, we just talked about the evidence before he worked with you was her secrecy and the weird behavior. And the other route he could have taken would have just been talking to her versus hiring you. But, like, ultimately, he was right because that was the fact. She was acting weird.
- [48:33]
B
People might argue, okay, you have a conversation with her. Hey, I'm feeling weird about this. Is this happening, like, never? Is she gonna be like, yeah, I'm cheating on you. Do you know what I mean? How do you have a conversation without trying to pull answers out of them.
- [48:46]
C
Okay, so someone who isn't cheating on you, and if they're a good partner, they're going to be meeting you with compassion. They'll be curious. They'll be like, well, how can I actually make you feel more reassured? Like, they're going to show up if there's something up. They're going to be defensive. They're going to double down. Like, no, you're crazy. There's nothing wrong. What are. What are you talking about? I'm not acting weird. You're acting. They're going to be like that if they really are hiding something. And I think also with phones, I do think they're. I don't think anyone should ever be snooping or looking at their partner's phone without their permission. But I do think if there's a. If there's a history with cheating, if there's something that, like, I think it's okay to show each other your phones. Like, here, take a look. You. I have nothing to hide. Here you go. My husband and I know each other's passcodes. We don't.
- [49:27]
A
Yeah.
- [49:28]
C
Openly go on each other's phones, but.
- [49:30]
B
Right.
- [49:30]
C
We have each other's location. Like, we have nothing to hide.
- [49:33]
A
I'm so with you. And I'm so, like, open. I have. I have nothing to hide. And I'm. It's weird to me when somebody wants to keep. I mean, I have to be careful, though, because sometimes somebody's like, oh, I don't like social media. I'm private. And I'm like, red flag. But it's like, not always fine.
- [49:50]
C
My husband, like, I think he. Yeah. Like, he didn't have any social media. I think he posted for the first time in five years that we got married. Like, that was like his first post.
- [49:58]
A
You're gonna post. That's a good one.
- [50:00]
B
That's like mine. That's fun.
- [50:01]
A
And I get that. Like, I definitely understand there are a lot of people that are private people, but, yeah. Navigating that in the dating world, I think you just have to trust your.
- [50:12]
C
Your gut.
- [50:12]
A
Like, when you feel like something's off, you have to go with that.
- [50:15]
B
Yeah, a hundred percent.
- [50:16]
C
The other thing about trust in dating is I think everyone starts with an A.
- [50:20]
B
Right.
- [50:20]
C
And you can take away points based on what their actions are. Like, it's not like. Like, that's one way. That's how I approach building trust. Like, I'm not. I'm. I'm gonna trust you until you give me a reason not to. And I'm not Gonna trust you with my life. Like, I'm not like gonna overshare and trust you the way I trust my best friend that I know.
- [50:38]
B
Just a little bit. Just enough.
- [50:39]
C
I'm not gonna.
- [50:40]
B
An appropriate amount.
- [50:41]
C
Yeah, just a little bit. An appropriate amount for how long I've known you. And then from there it's like, okay, I'm gonna see how you act and decide if I can keep trusting you. That's how it builds.
- [50:52]
B
I'm someone who I just. And I think it's because of my job, but like, and because of I've been hurt a lot. And so me, I'm like, I'm not trusting you at any all until you show me I could. Like, you need to work for. And that's. I guess that's not healthy, but it's. I just can't help it.
- [51:06]
C
I don't know how to change the balance. Like, you give them a little bit, you give them a little bit to work with. Like, it's like if it's like a rope, you're giving them like a little bit of rope and then that can get longer and longer as you get to know them. But you can't give them nothing because then it'll never build. Like if you have all your walls up. So that's what happens. You know, it could be small. It can probably.
- [51:25]
A
That's. Girl, please.
- [51:28]
C
In early dating, it could be like asking them for a favor or if they say they're going to text you 8 o', clock, seeing if they do and okay, they. They follow through on their word. That's another point towards trusting them kind of thing.
- [51:40]
A
All of this requires a lot of confidence in yourself, and that's a constant.
- [51:44]
C
You have to have a lot of security and confidence in yourself. 100%. Yeah.
- [51:49]
A
How do we build that, in your opinion? Big question. But like, how do we not seek validation through dating?
- [51:55]
C
Well, I think, yeah, obviously that there's a lot of different pieces of work. One of course, is a self care and validation. Self respect is a big one. Just treating yourself with the basic respect that you would want from other people is. I think I work on that too. I'm like, am I respecting myself in this moment? So that's one area. The other area is just actively looking for signs that people are good. Right. Like if you're always looking for signs that people are bad and gonna hurt you, you're gonna find those signs. So it's like confirmation bias again. So even with the. Your friends and family can start there of like, oh, people are Showing up for me. People are kind to me in my life, and I think the more of that kind of security you build, the less it matters. When someone doesn't show you that it's like, no, you don't. You don't deserve to be here. You don't deserve to be in this crowd. You don't deserve access to me. I'm out.
- [52:43]
A
Yeah.
- [52:43]
C
Because when you focus on your service,
- [52:45]
B
you don't deserve access to me. That's a big statement. Yeah.
- [52:48]
A
And when you.
- [52:49]
C
I said to all my clients, like, if they're. If they're not showing up, they lose the privilege of dating you if they didn't follow through, you know?
- [52:59]
A
And I think it's important to recognize that it is a privilege to date you. And if you're not feeling that it's okay to take a break from dating. I know we feel pressure, especially as women, to, like, get it done, but I am such a fan.
- [53:14]
C
I did not take any breaks, but, yeah, well, I mean.
- [53:17]
A
Yeah, well, let's talk about that. Like, how can you build confidence while you're dating? Do you have to take a break? Break. Do you think?
- [53:23]
C
Okay, so my approach to building confidence while dating was truly in the beginning. I wasn't dating for a relationship. I was dating to build experience. So I just didn't give any F's about anything. I was like, you know what? I don't care where this goes. I'm experimenting. I'm learning.
- [53:39]
A
You know what I call that? I call it, like, dating, like, you're on vacation, where it's like, I might not see this person again. It's just. I'm just doing this to enjoy myself. I'm gonna be nice. Obviously, I'm not, like, using them, but I love.
- [53:54]
C
You show up and you just tell people. You know, you can say, I'm not looking for anything serious right now. And that means that the dates don't go. You don't date someone for more than, like, two or three times. Which is why I probably didn't run into any of these issues that you guys cover on the show, because I was dating in that way of, like, this connection is gonna last maybe up to five dates max. I wasn't ready for a relationship. I wasn't ready. I knew that. I knew I wasn't ready because I wasn't ready to deal with someone's flaws. I was like, I don't want to deal with your flaws.
- [54:19]
B
I love that. That is so empowering.
- [54:23]
A
You're coming to me.
- [54:24]
C
You're.
- [54:24]
A
You're arriving in my life at a really good time. Right.
- [54:27]
C
Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad. I just. I just want to see you find someone who you're excited about, who treats you right. And like, that's the. That's the. That's what gets them into your life. Like, that's what allows them into your life, is if they treat you really well and you are excited to be with them. And you know, it should be easy in the beginning if you're full of anxiety and even if you're an anxious person, if you like, some people are like, oh, I lean anxious, so I'm always going to feel anxious. That's not true. Some people actually won't trigger your anxiety as much, and those are the people we should focus on. Problem is, people aren't usually attracted to those people. That's another story.
- [55:02]
B
Oh, my God, that's so true. That's another story.
- [55:05]
A
Do you have anything else you want to tell the people about where they can find you or what they should do as they search for love?
- [55:11]
C
Yes. You are always welcome to slide into my DMs on Instagram aing.intensionally and you can listen to my podcast Dating Intentionally. It's everywhere.
- [55:20]
A
It's a must. It's a must.
- [55:22]
B
Thank you so much.
- [55:23]
C
Thank you guys.
- [55:23]
A
Especially to balance us out. Like, you listen to a horror story and then you go listen to Dating Intentionally.
- [55:29]
C
Yes. And I can't wait to have you guys on With Love.
- [55:34]
B
That's gonna be fun. I can't wa.