Mackenzie Undercover: The Mom-fish

Summary

Episode Summary: "Mackenzie Undercover: The Mom-fish"

Podcast: The Dating Detectives
Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz & Hanna Anderson
Release Date: March 31, 2025
Episode: Mackenzie Undercover: The Mom-fish

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1. Introduction to the Case

In this gripping episode, The Dating Detectives dives deep into a disturbing case dubbed "The Mom-fish." Mackenzie Fultz, a seasoned private investigator, uncovers the troubling actions of a mother suspected of manipulating her child to defraud insurance companies.

Notable Quote:

Mackenzie [10:05]: "It's gonna piss everyone off. And I was like, I don't know if I should tell this one on the podcast..."

2. Surveillance and Initial Observations

Mackenzie provides a detailed account of his surveillance work. Assigned to monitor a mother claiming both herself and her four-year-old child were injured in a car accident, he begins by observing the child's activities at daycare. Contrary to the mother’s claims of severe injuries, Mackenzie notes the child’s active and unhindered play.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [12:16]: "This sweet little baby just runs around the playground, no cast, no sling, nothing I can observe."

Hanna [14:50]: "If he can do the monkey bars, he's doing better than me."

3. Uncovering Potential Fabrications

The plot thickens when Mackenzie follows the mother to an Independent Medical Exam (IME) appointment. He witnesses her instructing her child to "act like it hurts," manipulating the child's behavior to appear injured. Mackenzie documents the discrepancy between the child's previous active state and the sudden use of orthopedic devices during the IME.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [18:03]: "She says, 'You gotta make it look like it hurts.' And everything was like, my heart fell into my butt."

Hanna [23:00]: "He wipes them off, he's like, mom, yeah, I don't want this anymore."

4. Analysis of Behavior and Motives

The hosts discuss the possibility of the mother’s actions aligning with Munchausen by Proxy—a condition where a caregiver fabricates or induces illness in a child for attention or financial gain. However, Mackenzie emphasizes that in this case, the primary motivation appears to be financial.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [24:48]: "This is 100% money, which is so messed up."

Hanna [25:32]: "It's not technically Munchausen by proxy."

5. Unveiling a Troubling Past

Further investigation reveals the mother's troubling history, including multiple charges related to child abuse and neglect. Mackenzie highlights a particularly alarming incident where the mother left a two-year-old child unattended in a car for two hours while she obtained drugs, risking the child’s life.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [29:13]: "Guess who has a record. Not one, two, three, but four charges of child abuse, child neglect, and child endangerment."

Hanna [31:05]: "Like, how did she even know it was out of gas if she couldn't get in? I guess it just stopped running. But still."

6. Legal and Ethical Implications

The episode delves into the complexities of surveillance and reporting in such sensitive cases. Mackenzie explains his obligations and the limitations of his role as a private investigator, including the challenges of acting as a mandated reporter and the repercussions of not intervening sooner.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [40:16]: "I have no idea. All I know is that if...the child wasn't being hurt, there was no immediate danger."

Hanna [42:25]: "You need... But what do I do? Say, yeah, this guy's walking down the street talking to himself."

7. Aftermath and Current Status

Ultimately, the mother's actions lead to her arrest for DUI manslaughter, while the child is placed in the care of a responsible relative. Mackenzie expresses his frustration over the systemic failures that allowed the mother to continue her deceit despite her alarming history.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [34:43]: "But the reason the mom is incarcerated is due to a DUI manslaughter. No way it took her killing somebody."

Hanna [36:39]: "And obviously she doesn't really care about her kid because if she was willing to put him through surgery."

8. Reflections and Listener Engagement

Towards the episode's conclusion, Mackenzie and Hanna reflect on the emotional toll of such cases and the importance of community support in combating deceit in personal relationships. They encourage listeners to share their own stories and experiences, fostering a sense of solidarity against "dogfish"—a term they use to describe deceitful individuals in the dating world.

Notable Quotes:

Mackenzie [47:15]: "I want to know if any of our listeners have experienced something with a parent. Have you been dogfished by your parents..."

Hanna [51:37]: "And also, I just love the conversation there, hearing everybody's... not that we can legally give advice, but it's so much nicer to have a support system."

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Key Takeaways

• Spotting Red Flags: The episode underscores the importance of vigilance in recognizing manipulative behaviors, especially those involving loved ones.

• Ethical Boundaries: It highlights the ethical dilemmas faced by private investigators in balancing client obligations with moral responsibilities.

• Systemic Failures: The case reveals significant gaps in the system's ability to protect vulnerable children from recurring abuse and neglect.

• Community Support: Emphasizes the role of community and shared experiences in identifying and combating deceitful individuals in personal relationships.

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This episode of The Dating Detectives serves as a stark reminder of the lengths some individuals may go to deceive others, highlighting the necessity for awareness and proactive measures in safeguarding oneself and loved ones from such manipulations.

Transcript

[Hannah]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7-7-7233 for support.

[Mackenzie]

Happy Dating Detectives Monday. I love Dating Detectives Monday.

[Hannah]

Me too. I love the people who tell us that we help you get through your Mondays. Some people are like, I listen on the commute. I listen at 6:30 in the morning. I listen at work.

[Mackenzie]

People are like, I cannot wait till Monday.

[Hannah]

Well, you know, if we could change Mondays for you, that's all we want. And that's the impact we have on the world. But today is good.

[Mackenzie]

People are like, you make my Monday so much better. And then it's like, but some of these stories, it's like, I don't know, it's not necessarily better, but like, holy crap. Like, you can't wait to hear what shit show is gonna happen. It's crazy. These dogfish are out of control. Out of control.

[Hannah]

Just when we think we've heard everything.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Hannah]

I do love everybody's responses to the latest episodes. The resort romance, if we want to call it that. Listen to that guests podcast. Is it Sex Loves Sex Love and tacos.

[Mackenzie]

Sex, lies and tacos.

[Hannah]

Sex, lies and tacos. Right? That's her.

[Mackenzie]

What a great name too.

[Hannah]

Oh, obsessed. She was awesome. But you're awesome. And you're our guest today because it's a mackenzie undercover, baby.

[Mackenzie]

I know some of you guys, I think it's very hit or miss. Like, some people like them, some people don't. Some people are like, I'd rather have the. Well, some people want the short form version on. On the social media. And then there's. But I tell. I try to tell different stories here, but sometimes they overlap. But they're interesting stories. But I, Hannah, made sure to never listen to them in case I tell them on this. On the show.

[Hannah]

I try, but it's hard not to because they're fun. But also, half the time I feel like those short ones leave me with questions and I want to know more. Not even just about the case, but.

[Mackenzie]

About you and the details. You always like to know the details. Like, okay, I need more information about this person.

[Hannah]

I love my little notes. I got My notebook out. Gotta make my charts. Speaking of little notes and information, we have some housekeeping.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yes.

[Hannah]

And it's actually really exciting. So we have merch dropping. Yes, we have merch this week, and.

[Mackenzie]

As promised, we're dropping it early for our Patreoners.

[Hannah]

Yeah. So if you are on Patreon or you want to get merch today, it's live on Patreon. Only for Patreon, because you guys keep us afloat. So thank you so much. And then everyone else will have access on Wednesday, but there is a limited amount, so you can Join Patreon. It's $5 a month, and there's so much more than just early access to merch, but Patreon. Go get it while it's hot.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

It's really cute.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Hannah]

It's cute stuff. I'm really excited about it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. I think everybody's gonna really like it. It'll be our second merch drop, so that's really exciting.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Thank you for repping and post pictures and stuff. Oh, my gosh. I want to see everybody in the merch all the time.

[Mackenzie]

We really appreciate when you guys support our show that way. So thank you so much, and just thank you for supporting the guests too. And, oh, Hannah, will you please share more about the book club thing?

[Hannah]

Yeah. Okay. So we did a book club that was a little bit, like, of a more academic book, and we're going to talk about it on a live stream. But don't worry if you didn't read it. We'll still just talk about it. But we picked a fiction thriller for our next book, the Perfect Marriage. Geneva Rose. I just finished it. I. I don't want to say too much. It's a mystery. It's a thriller. It's got dogfish, it's got scandal, it's got to murder. That's not a spoiler, but Molly read it too, and we think it would be fun to discuss whether, you know, it's one of those books that I feel like everybody's gonna have a different opinion about it.

[Mackenzie]

I'm using one of my audible credits for it right now to get it on my audible so I can listen to it next.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I'm excited to hear what you think about it. So the Perfect Marriage will let you know when that's meeting. But we. We do that on Patreon, too. It's like just a zoom call where we all just gab about the book.

[Mackenzie]

The Patreon is so awesome. What a great community that you guys have created. I'm so grateful for y'all. Like, how amazing. And speaking of great community, Hannah also.

[Hannah]

Has my last announcement.

[Mackenzie]

Yes, tell us, tell us. It's so cool. You guys are gonna love this.

[Hannah]

I'm starting a self defense workshop, which I hope. I know, I'm so excited and I wish you could come, mackenzie, but I hope that it grows beyond West Hollywood.

[Mackenzie]

I should come to LA just to do it with you.

[Hannah]

I mean.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I would love that.

[Hannah]

We're doing the first one in April, April 6, Sunday, and then Sunday, May 18. And it's just practical self defense basics in a community of people who get it all ages, all skill levels, all genders. Everybody can come and it's 35, but all the profits. I'm like paying the self defense teacher because spoiler alert, I am not qualified. But I'm just going to be there learning along with everybody else. But after that, the all the profits go to the national Domestic violence hotline. And if you come, you get free self defense products. You have to come and get some safety goodies if you're in the Los Angeles area. And if you. I don't know if you want us to come tour or go to do a workshop somewhere else, let us know where you live because maybe that's something.

[Mackenzie]

In the future, especially if you guys are gonna come. Like, if any of our listeners are gonna come, like, I wanna go too. So I think that'd be really fun. So I'm gonna.

[Hannah]

I know it's not. It's like, obviously dating detectives is part of it, but it's just kind of like something I wanted. I don't know, I just wanted to learn, honestly.

[Mackenzie]

And I know, I love that you're doing that too because you're kind of influencing our listeners to say, hey, like, you're inspiring people to say, hey, like, get some self defense in.

[Hannah]

Yeah, thank you. And the other thing from this show, I think there are self defense classes and I'm not hating on them. I'm sure there are many that are wonderful. But it felt like the options around here were very like boxing gyms, legit workout places, teaching self defense as a fitness thing. And I literally called it don't get killed in a parking lot, which I know is a little flashy, but it's because that's. I just want to be around people who can be like, yeah, this kind of sucks that we have to think about this, but let's do it together. And I want to learn the basics. All I need to know. Because also, even if you know the basics, when you're in the moment, you could shut down. Like, I just want to practice. Even if I already know what to do. I just want to be in a position practicing with people. Oh, it's tricky out there. But I also have some scholarship spots, so I would love for like survivors or if it's not accessible to you on the website, don'tgetkilledclub. Com, you can apply to the scholarship spot.

[Mackenzie]

That's amazing. And also along those lines, I want to say thank you for that because I feel like there was a. I don't know if you guys listened to this story on my social media, a PI Story that I told, but I. I had just started taking Brazilian Jiu jitsu and the skills that I learned doing Jiu jitsu, I was taking it at this time. I actually got attacked on a case by four dudes outside of an apartment complex. And because of the skills that I had learned thus far, just the basic base, most basic skills, I was able to get out of that situation and it saved my life. So I feel like what you're doing is really inspir. So I hope that you guys are inspired by that and I don't know, do some self defense. And it can also be a way of exercise. And trust me, half of it is.

[Hannah]

Just like, I just want to punch something, y'all.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Punch a cushion in a safe space.

[Mackenzie]

So that's amazing. Thank you, Hannah, for doing that. I think so. Cool. Thank you.

[Hannah]

I'll post more.

[Mackenzie]

If you guys are doing your own self defense, I would like to know what you guys do for, you know, self defense or if you have any recommendations in your area, whatever. So, love.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Brands or organizations.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

A lot of times I go on tangents about TV shows and now I'm excited because I get to tell you about a new one coming up on Netflix. It comes out April 3rd and it's called Pulse. I think we're going to love it. It sounds so up our alley. So it's very doctor type drama show. A hurricane barrels towards Miami's busiest level one trauma center. And third year resident Dr. Dann Sims is unexpectedly thrust into a promotion because the chief resident, Dr. Xander Phillips, is suspended. So the storm is getting worse. There's a lot of trauma in the hospital, but Danny and Phillips have to find a way to work together. Even as the bombshell details of a complicated and illicit romance between them begin to spill out. Maybe job, fish situation, tbd. But I need to know what happens. So it's very unique medical cases, especially if you've listened to our sister show Medical Detectives, this will give you even more of that kind of drama. But it also involves the relationships between all of these residents balancing their own challenges, their romance, their professional challenges. It literally says sometimes saving their patients lives is often less complicated than living their own. I eat this stuff up. I love this. And I'm also just excited that this is kind of a fresh take on the genre. And when you run out of Dating Detectives episodes, when you run out of Medical Detectives episodes, I know you all need a little bit more mystery, a little bit more drama in your life. So we gotta watch this. Also, we've been doing a lot of talking about TV shows, especially on our Patreon. Any show that has to do with any themes related to us, I love talking to you guys about. So let's watch this, and you tell me what you think. If you have any guesses about what's going to happen. So let's do it. Let's watch Pulse comes out April 3, only on Netflix. Stay on the Pulse. Watch Pulse, and tell me what you think about it. I'm so excited to watch a show together. So, okay, so let's get into it. What do you have for me today? Should I be scared or.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no, you're gonna be mad.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

It's gonna piss everyone off. And I was like. I was like. I don't know if I should tell this one on the podcast, because you.

[Hannah]

Say that every time.

[Mackenzie]

Well, okay. So there's a lot of what I do, and I didn't think about it this way because when we talk about dogfish on the Dating Detectives, we think of relationships, and someone cheated on me or lied to me. They scam. They con. Right. Mostly in the world of relationships. Right. Like, friendships are, you know, crimes of the heart. Yeah. I work dogfish every day. People that are scamming these insurance companies for fraudulent claims. But this particular one has to do with a child. And. Yeah. And it's gonna piss a lot of y'all. I'm just letting you know.

[Hannah]

So I'm not excited.

[Mackenzie]

No. So, but trigger warning. This does have to do with a very small child. And it. Yeah, it's gonna piss you off, but then you're gonna maybe be happy with the outcome. I'm not sure.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Can I get a spoiler? Like, is everybody okay?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Like, no. Like, everybody's fine.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

Everybody's alive. But I want to let you guys know that this does have to do with a small child, and it's going to piss you off like it's. Holy shit. You will not believe how people are. If I'm being honest, this story is going to remind you of the Munchausens episode that we did. So let me just start by saying that when I get a case that has to do with insurance fraud, right. It seems as simple as, oh, someone says they have an injured neck, they've been in a car accident, I hurt my neck and I can't get out of bed, you know, and so they want $7 million for whatever, whatever because I can never work again. And they'll, they'll scam the system and say I so injured I have to wear a neck brace. And then my job might be to go follow them and see if they're actually lying.

[Hannah]

Go see if they're actually golfing.

[Mackenzie]

That's the gist of it. Okay. And every once in a while they want me to work a kid. When you work a kid, a kid cannot sign a contract. Right. And in this particular case, this is a four year old child.

[Hannah]

Wait, work a kid, like do surveillance on a four year old.

[Mackenzie]

Do surveillance on a child. They want to know what is going on with this child. So this is a case of a mom who is in a car accident with her child. In the car with her. Okay, okay. She's claiming injuries for herself, but also for the child, saying, I was injured, but also my child was injured. And she's playing protective mama bear like, I cannot believe this happened. Like this was a child and it was, the accident was the other person's fault. Right. But either way, she's saying my child was injured, I'm pissed off. And we all understand that wants money.

[Hannah]

For both injury and they want you to make sure the kid is actually injured.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. So she's basically saying my kid has his whole life ahead of him at this point, he's 4 years old. And she's saying he has whole life ahead of him. And we don't know how this is going to affect him in the future, how this is going to affect possible football scholarships. What if he wants to play football? And she saying that his arms are so severely injured, but they go to the doctor and the doctor says, well, I'm not seeing any breaks or any whatever. But she's saying it, they're saying it's all soft tissue injury. And she would say every time she touches the kid's arms, the kid winces or screams or whatever. So she's like, my child is in a huge amount of pain and so she wants money. Right. So that's the whole gist of it. So the kid apparently had soft tissue injuries. Because they couldn't find any breaks or fractures or anything in the bones. The kid is unable to move his upper extremities. So as far as his arms and his elbows, his shoulders, his wrists, he's very limited on mobility in his upper extremities. So this is what she's told the doctor. Right. So they schedule what's called an ime. An IME is an independent medical exam. So this is a doctor that they go to to examine a person and he's unbiased. He doesn't work for the defense, he doesn't work for the plaintiff, he doesn't work for anybody. And they wanted me to do surveillance on the day that this child was scheduled to see this ime. This, this IME doctor. Okay, so I start surveillance early in the morning like always. It's a regular case, right. The mom drops this 4 year old kid off at a daycare center. So imagine you, you drive up, you get your kid out of the car with their little backpack or whatever and then you leave. You go to work. So this mom works like you, just regular office building, whatever. Well, at this daycare, there's a parking lot that faces a fenced in playground. And I was able to document the kid outside playing on the playground in the sandbox, up and down the slide, the swings, the monkey bar, like just like a four year old would do. And he's moving about freely. Nothing's crazy, nothing's moving around like monkey bars.

[Hannah]

If he can do the monkey bars, he's doing better than me. I tried monkey bars, Louise. These are hard.

[Mackenzie]

I can't even lift my own weight.

[Hannah]

Tough. Okay. He's, he's seeming okay now.

[Mackenzie]

Just so you guys know, and I know this question is going to come up because it comes up all the time. Are you allowed to videotape children? The answer is yes. So I'm licensed by the state of Florida, which means they have basically said, hey, we trust you to do this in a way that is ethical and legal. The playground was visible from a public street. So anybody on that street can look into the playground and see.

[Hannah]

Right. Oh, so if it's visible from a public. Because that, you remember that case you did where you climbed up on the top of the swing set because you could see into a backyard and she was.

[Mackenzie]

And the top. The swing set was on a public playground.

[Hannah]

She was in the.

[Mackenzie]

I was in the. I was, I was in public airspace and I could see.

[Hannah]

And so you probably looked a little looney tuned, but that's okay. What in the goldfish, they're like, what is that?

[Mackenzie]

Doing whatever. Now, I'm no medical professional, clearly. I am Paul Blart, mall cop. It is not my job to determine if someone is injured or not or whatever and report observing. I don't care if they're wearing a cast. Not wearing a cast. Like their jaw wired shut. Even if their jaw is wired shut, does that mean that their jaw is broken? Nope. It's not for me to determine. It's not my job. I document and report. I am Paul Blart mall Cop. I document it, turn it into my client, let them figure it out, right? So I'm just going to stay in my lane and just document what I see, okay? So this sweet little baby just run around the playground, no cast, no sling, no. No orthopedic medical devices, no nothing that I can observe. So in my report, I write that no visible device, whatever. He don't have a care in the world. He's just. He's just running around playing duck, duck, damn goose, you know, he doesn't know. Like, he, whatever, living his best life 100%. So mom picks him up around lunchtime, right? So, like right before nap time, they leave and they go to this doctor, this independent medical exam, right? So I follow her to the doctor, and I knew they had this appointment and that's the day they wanted me to follow her to. To this appointment. And they get to the doctor's office, they get out of the car. And before walking in, like, the door still open on the car, she's getting the kid out. And y'all know that the kids, like you getting a kid out of a car, like, you got to find the shoe. You got to figure out where they can wipe their boogers. Like it's a whole big. Yeah, like, where's your binky? Whatever. And so she stands the kid up outside the car and puts devices on the kid's arms. There was a wrist brace on one arm, a sling on the other. She put some kind of thing like, thing on the shoulder. I don't know. So she's putting devices, like medical orthopedic devices on the kids arms. Now, I'm no orthopedic specialist, but you can tell what she's doing. Like, you can tell these are orthopedic devices.

[Hannah]

You're like, she's making him Iron man all of a sudden.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. So she's putting devices on this kid and, you know, whatever. Well, you got to remember this kid just left daycare where he's skipping about. He's playing duck, duck, goose, hide and seek, whatever, you know. And this sweet little baby is just like kind of skipping around. He's running, you know, like four year olds do. And he starts, you know, kicking his feet, he's skipping, whatever, just minding his own business. And the mama hollers at him and she calls his name and she says, you gotta make it look like it hurts. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Hannah]

Wait, are you allowed to record sound?

[Mackenzie]

No, there's no. Florida's a two party consent state, so there's no sound. But now I know that she said that. And when she says this, like when she tells this baby, you gotta act like it hurts. You gotta act like. Like they need to know that it hurts. At first it didn't really click in my head and I was like, act like. And then I was like, holy crap. And then it all came and again. Remember, they don't always give you a bunch of information about the case. So all I know is this kid is claiming these particular injuries and these are the medical devices that this child is known to use. But if they're known to use these devices and they're not using them, it doesn't really mean a lot. But the fact that he's not using them at all. And then she says, act like it hurts. And then everything was like. Like the. My. My. My heart fell into my butt and I was like, oh, no. And then I was like, I'm gonna nail this lady. And I have never been so careful on a surveillance not to lose her, not to get busted. Like I was. I mean, I was on it. I was gonna make sure that everything was documented every chance I got.

[Hannah]

Cause any tiny thing you do not by the book could jeopardize at this point. This four year old.

[Mackenzie]

Yep. Yeah.

[Hannah]

That's amazing. I mean, it's good work that you were doing, but that's freaking scary. I'm so excited to tell you about Helix Mattresses. Who else needs a new mattress? I was desperately needing one, so I just turned 30. No big deal. So one thing that happened in the past year was that I started aching a bit. And you guys told me that something happens at some point. You turn 30 and all of a sudden you're like, ow, what is that? And you don't know. I was just feeling in my shoulders, I had like tech neck and I was doing my yoga. I was. Had my computer up and I couldn't figure it out. I even tried Like a tempur Pedic pillow, and nothing was really working. And then I switched to a Helix mattress, and I'm telling you, it actually fixed everything, and I really love it. And then I told my mom about it, and she got one recently and is just like, beyond. So I want to tell you what we got. Helix is great. Helix gives you a quiz. You go on their website and you put in the type of stuff you're looking for and what your sleep problems are. So for me, it was mostly like shoulder pain. But you can put in if you're a hot sleeper, cold sleeper. You can just put in anything that you need, whether you like it soft, whether you like it hard. You know what I mean? Wink, wink. But we got the Helix Dusk Lux, and it's like. I mean, I feel like I'm in a hotel. And I heard about Helix a while ago. My mom, she refers to people she follows on the Internet like you might refer to Mackenzie. She's like, oh. One of my influencers told me about it, and I think it's very cute, but it's true. One of my influencers told me about it and was just raving about it. So when Helix reached out to us, I was like, oh, no doubt. That's why we had to partner with them. And I love it, and I think you guys should try it, especially since we have a great deal. Did you know it's sleep? It's sleep awareness month. I didn't know that. Go off, be aware and go to sleep, guys. We should all sleep more. But right now, to help you do that, go to helixsleep.com Dating Detectives for 25 off site wide. That's helixsleep.com Dating detectives for 25 off slight wide helixsleep.com Dating detectives and let me know if you get one and if it helps you sleep better, especially after you hear some of these dang stories, because they keep me up.

[Mackenzie]

So she's coaching junior as they're going into the doctor. She's basically telling you got to make it look like it hurts. And they're walking in, and he starts walking kind of fast, and she's yanking on his wrist to pull him back to her side so that he'll slow down and walk a little slower, maybe look a little more feeble. Obviously, I'm just documenting. I'm just observing. So I don't know for sure that's what her thought process was. So I just want to make it clear I'm no expert.

[Hannah]

I got you. I'll make my own Conclusions.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you. Thank you. And she's telling this kid, you got to make it look like it hurts. Like you have to make it look like it hurts. And so then the kid would like, he would put his shoulders down and he would do this thing with his arms where he was just stiff, like he wouldn't move his arms, almost like a robot stance, like with your hands in front of you or whatever, like a mannequin. So to me it appeared that he had been trained. Like when she says, let make it look like it hurts, don't move your arms. And he went into this robot stance. So they go to the doctor, they come out of the doctor, he's wearing the. And I don't know what goes on in the doctor's office. So I sit in the parking lot, they come out and this child is still wearing the devices. She puts the baby in the car really carefully and they leave. The baby still has the devices on his arms right in the car. And you can see he's in a little booster seat, whatever. They return to the house, and when they get back to the house, they're getting out of the car. Mom opens the door, they're getting everything out and finding the shoe and wiping the boogers or whatever. And the kid gets out of the car and he ain't got no medical devices on. So at some point while they were driving, she had to have taken them off or let him take the device.

[Hannah]

He wipes them off, he's like, mom, yeah, I don't want this anymore.

[Mackenzie]

And I, I couldn't see that. But I know that when they got into the car, he had the devices and when they got out, he didn't. Okay, so that's all I know. So this lady, she's something else. So this kid is now playing outside in the front yard and he's got this little tricycle bike. This kid's riding the bike, he's running around the yard, the dog's running out in the yard with him. And this lady's just letting this baby run around all willy nilly in front of God and everybody. Like he, like, she ain't pulling this scam. And I'm like, hold like this kid. I mean, the arms is moving about. Like you can clearly see what happened here. Like she put the devices on the kid. And it happens all the time. To be honest with you, when I do a surveillance, a lot of times people will be wearing no medical device. And then as soon as they go to the doctor, they'll put that neck brace back on or whatever. It happens all the time. All the. I can't even tell you.

[Hannah]

We've had some pregnant bellies go on and off pregnant.

[Mackenzie]

It's a. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Hannah]

People love a little. A little prop.

[Mackenzie]

They do. And can. I don't even want to. Using your baby to get some money. Like, if that'll make you mad, I don't know what will. Like, that is. That makes me so freaking mad. But that's not the end of it.

[Hannah]

Yeah. What happens?

[Mackenzie]

So after that IME that independent medical exam, they were planning a surgery to fix the baby, which I. What are they. What, are you going to surgerize? Like, there's no broken bones or whatever.

[Hannah]

Wait, that's so bad.

[Mackenzie]

Based on the fact that he couldn't take off the braces and the devices without feeling pain. So she's telling the doctor this baby is feeling so much pain when those devices. Now, mind you, I would like to also add in none of my documentation, none of my video was the baby wincing or holding his arms or ouching or anything. Like, he's happy as a clam. This baby's happy as can be. Right. So he's. This. He. This little boy is living like Gypsy. Damn Rose. Okay. Like, hello. Munchausen by proxy.

[Hannah]

Munchausen by proxy. But it also is like, I guess we'd have to look into whether this is Munchausen by proxy, because her motives is very clearly money.

[Mackenzie]

So Munchausen's is. It's a mental health situation. Right. So it can include fraud, for instance, like with the Gofundmes and Set this up and hope. Right, right.

[Hannah]

You know, because you want attention and, like, to be needed.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you want your baby to stay little forever. You want to take care of them. And so this is. This is a legit mental health thing. But at school, if this was Munchausen's, like, the kid would be still acting hurt at school, and he would always act hurt, and everybody would be, like, feeling sorry for him and, oh, poor baby. This is just for financial gain.

[Hannah]

Okay, so it's not technically Munchausen by proxy. And if you're not even sure what Munchausen by Proxy is, we do have some multiple episodes at this point, but you should listen to those. The episode that you should go back to is Medical manipulation with Andrea Dunlop is one of the.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah, Andrea Dunlop. She has her own. Her own podcast, and she's incredible. And that. That episode just. Yeah, go listen to that one for sure.

[Hannah]

There's also another one, too. We've had a few. Gosh. The Munchausen dogfish are quite a breed.

[Mackenzie]

Anyway, so this is not that with Munchausen is. She would keep. He would have the braces on all the time, like 24 hours a day. She would not take them off for the. She like, she knows when she goes to the doctor and puts the. Puts the braces on. She's trying to put on a show for the doctor. If it was Munchausen, then she would keep the braces on the baby all the time.

[Hannah]

She wouldn't act like it hurts. She would say it hurts.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Hannah]

She would convince the child that they were in need. Okay, got it.

[Mackenzie]

This is. This is 100% money, which is so messed up.

[Hannah]

Okay, keep going.

[Mackenzie]

So a fun fact. When I was in college, I thought that credit cards were magical money that you just what? And then they sent you the bill and I'm like, well, I can't pay that, so they can just deal with it. Yeah, that didn't work out. And so then my credit sucked and took a while to build it back up. But I didn't have Ava when I was stupid in college and thought credit cards were magical money. But now you can. Ava is a credit building app that makes it super simple to improve your credit fast so you can get better rates on loans, pay off debt faster, and keep more money in your pocket. So Ava has a mission of making credit simpler and more transparent. So interest rates are freaking brutal right now. If your car payments and credit card bills are squeezing your budget, a higher credit score could save you thousands every year. And Ava. Ava can help with that. Instead of waiting months for a secured card, Ava is instantaneous. It's simple, affordable, it really works. And most members see their credit go up in less than a week. So the AVA card gives you credit up to $2,500. And you can use it to pay your existing bills and subscriptions automatically. Then just sit back and watch your credit climb. Ava reports your on time payments to all major credit bureaus every day to help you build positive credit history quickly. The longer you stick with Ava, the higher your credit score can go. Joining AVA gives you access to all of Ava's credit building tools starting at just $6 per month. So for $6 a month, you can potentially save thousands. There's no credit check, no interest, no fees. You just pay the $6 a month. AVA is the highest rated credit building app with thousands of five star reviews. It's the only credit building app rated excellent on trustpilot. And an A plus with Better Business Bureau. Don't let your credit hold you back another day. Grow your credit score fast with ava. Download the AVA app. Spelled a V. A today. And when you join, using our promo code dating, you'll get your first month free. And this offer is only for our listeners. Get the AVA app. Use promo code dating. Like dating detectives to get your first month. That's promo code dating, thanks to Ava. And now go get yourself good credit. So there's a whole nother side to this story. Listen, don't look at me.

[Hannah]

My face, I'm like, no.

[Mackenzie]

I end up. So I turn in my case, I'm done with it, right? Well, I end up doing further investigation to find out more about this lady. I want to find out more, like, what actually was going on.

[Hannah]

Is this a Mackenzie investigation or. Yeah, no, that's fine. I'm glad. I want to know.

[Mackenzie]

It's fun.

[Hannah]

I mean, we're kind of, like, dipping our toe into child abuse.

[Mackenzie]

A hundred percent. That's what I was thinking. So I was like, okay. Like, I really. Like there were questions, like. And I want. I kind of. I know. I kind of wanted answers to them. So.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Because especially if they get through the surgery. Okay.

[Mackenzie]

Could you imagine? So I. So I did what I do. I do a little investigation. I do a little research, and wait till you hear what I found out.

[Hannah]

Okay?

[Mackenzie]

Guess who has a record. Not one, two, three, but four charges of child abuse, child neglect, and child endangerment.

[Hannah]

Already this lunatic.

[Mackenzie]

So this lady already has a record for child neglect, child abuse, child abandonment, whatever, okay? So she's already has a history of not taking care of this baby. Now, when I first saw that, I was like, first of all, why does she have this baby now if she has all these, like, why aren't we protecting our babies? Right? Like, why aren't we protecting these youngins? That don't make no sense to me. Whatever. But I'm not a judge. What do I know? Maybe there's more that I can't see. Whatever. So this lady, the mama, according to what I read, was that she had gone to get drugs. So she goes to a drug house to get drugs, and when she goes to pick up her drugs, she left the baby, who was 2 at the time, in the car. So at some point during her two hours of being inside the drug house. Two hours. Two hours. The car runs out of gas. We're in Florida. It. That kid could have died.

[Hannah]

That kid could have.

[Mackenzie]

I don't know how the baby didn't die. Okay.

[Hannah]

That's devastating.

[Mackenzie]

On the police report, she said that she was keeping the baby safe by locking the doors. Except she locked the baby and the keys in the car. So she locks everything in the car, including the baby. Right.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Mackenzie]

But at this point, the car had run out of gas because she said that she left the car running, and by the time she came out two hours later, the car was out of gas. Right. Well, she leaves. So now she said that she left the house to go get gas because the. The car's out of gas. She's panicking. She doesn't know what to do. Right.

[Hannah]

How did she even know it was out of gas if she couldn't get in? I guess it just stopped running. But still.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, the car had just turned off. Right. So she doesn't want to call the cops or, like, I don't know, the fire department, a locksmith, I don't know. Because she doesn't want anybody to know that she's fired up on party favors. Okay? So she doesn't. Like. Obviously she doesn't want to get herself in trouble, so she doesn't want to call for help or else her goose is cooked. You know what I mean? So.

[Hannah]

Yeah, but her baby is more important.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, of course.

[Hannah]

I can't even imagine this.

[Mackenzie]

So one of the ladies in this neighborhood, which, as you can imagine, if there's a drug. I was probably not a great neighborhood. This was not a very good neighborhood based on the location. And one of the ladies from the neighborhood was walking by and said that this baby was screaming at the top of his lungs, which, hell, yeah, it's hot. And you have no idea where your mama is. And I don't know if you guys know this, but I do surveillance, like, for a living for 20 years in Florida in August. I turn off the car for three minutes, and I'm dying. I cannot breathe, the air is so thick. I do not know how this baby did not die.

[Hannah]

Like, And I do not know how this mother did not lose this baby.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And so the cops come. Well, by the time mom gets back from the gas station, the baby's in an ambulance getting oxygen, okay? So she. She ends up getting arrested because, duh. And she goes to jail right after the arrest, she goes to court. The judge gave her parenting classes and gave the baby back to her, okay? And that was the third arrest for endangering this same child.

[Hannah]

And the drug thing, like, wouldn't he want. Or she. I shouldn't assume who the judge is, but, like, it feels like we're not getting to any root of any problem here.

[Mackenzie]

Well, here's kind of one of the worst parts is that she left the baby in the car before. She's left the baby in the car before, but said I left the window open some so that he could breathe. It's Florida. You're going into Walmart, you leave your kid in the car and you crack a window. It's not a dog. Even you wouldn't do that to a dog.

[Hannah]

Right. Also Florida. Like, again, Florida. This is.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Not that it's okay anywhere, but truly this is like beyond that.

[Mackenzie]

So that's all I could find out about her upon my investigation was that this has. This had happened before and that she got away with it multiple times. But I do have an update that might give a little bit of a sigh of. A sigh of relief, but also not so the mama is currently incarcerated. The child is safe with a. With another relative who is of sound mind and judgment. Right.

[Hannah]

Okay, got it.

[Mackenzie]

But the reason the mom is incarcerated is due to a DUI manslaughter. No way it took her killing somebody.

[Hannah]

For somebody to do something about.

[Mackenzie]

For somebody to do something about it. They could have said, this woman is a danger, she needs to lose her kid. Or like, let's take the kid away. Imagine if that baby was in the car. She needs a mad. Yeah. Something to help her, but let's wait until we kill an innocent person.

[Hannah]

Plus, when they hired you, the information you found was readily available. If it was like court records, like, yep. They must have known.

[Mackenzie]

And nobody did anything about why they.

[Hannah]

Hired you, though, because they were like, we have a lot of evidence to think that she's not telling the truth about this money.

[Mackenzie]

But I was. The only reason that I was hired was because the inch. The inch. That's not. The insurance company doesn't care about their history. They don't care about their on drugs, whatever the insurance company's job is, do I need to pay this money to this person who are insured driver hit.

[Hannah]

But wouldn't that help their case to be like, look, this woman has like multiple counts of abuse. Like, even if this kid is injured, we can't rule out that she's not responsible. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer.

[Mackenzie]

I imagine they could use that and say, listen, clearly she's abused this kid before. Who's to say she's lying? So it could speak to her credibility or lack of love, I imagine.

[Hannah]

But like, at the very beginning of this, I was. I Always try to see things from everybody's point of view. And I was thinking about Les Mis, and I was like, hey, maybe this is just to steal a loaf of bread for your family situation. Like, we don't know everybody's situation. Maybe I would do crazy things to help support my child, too. She's just looking for money for drugs. Like, that's all this came down to, unless I'm missing something. And that's just so, so sad for this child that they have to bear so much of the abuse of that and trauma of that.

[Mackenzie]

And that's where I kind of feel like this is an ultimate case of dogfish. Like, she is lying to everyone to get money. Like, her motivation is money.

[Hannah]

And obviously she doesn't really care about her kid because if she was willing to put him through surgery.

[Mackenzie]

Surgery, you were going to surgerize your kid for no reason. And listen, that's not to say that the child didn't need. Sir. Like, maybe the kid did need it. The fact that the kid could move about freely doesn't negate the fact that he could need surgery. That's something that.

[Hannah]

But the fact for surgery was that.

[Mackenzie]

It was that he couldn't move his arms. And I saw him. But again, disclaimer. I'm not a medical doctor, so I don't know. I didn't have access to all the medical records, you know, because hipaa, whatever. But I feel like if something had been done sooner, like if this was a zero tolerance zone, the minute someone says, hey, you've neglected this kid in such an egregious way that, you know, we're going to protect this kid, we can't let this happen again. Right?

[Hannah]

It's right. Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And it's one thing to give somebody another chance and say, everybody makes a mistake, but no, when it's a kid who can't make their own decisions, that kid, if you're 18 or older, you know, according to the law, you're an adult and you can say, I choose not to trust this person again. Right. But if you're four, you don't have the choice to say, oh, I don't. I don't want to trust this person again with my life. You don't have that autonomy because you're little. And so who's advocating for you when someone says, oh, you can go back to. Maybe it was just an accident, and that's horrible. But also, they want to keep families together. So I. It's hard to say, like, what is the right thing to do?

[Hannah]

So after all this Happened? Did it go to trial? Did you didn't have to testify. How did you testify?

[Mackenzie]

No. So if I don't testify, usually what that means is that the case settled. Or they said, hey, we have this video so you can.

[Hannah]

We don't need you.

[Mackenzie]

Shut up and go away and take the money we're willing to give you. I don't always testify. And like I said, usually if I turn in my case and I don't hear from them ever and ever and ever again, that usually means that they settled the case and everything's done, the case is over. But in this case, I never testified. But I imagine also the insurance company will. I've known inch like my client to say, like, hey, we know that you. That you had this accident and we're willing to pay you X amount of dollars because apparent there are valid. According to these medical professionals, there are valid injuries and we're willing to pay for that. But we're not giving you money for all this crap, knowing that now you're lying about this child's end or whatever.

[Hannah]

Yeah, and then they might say, okay, I'll take.

[Mackenzie]

They might say, hey, we'll give you. We'll give you this much dollars. This will cover your medical bills and make sure that you're taken care of medically. But we're not giving you all this other or whatever it is. So whatever they offer them, and then it's up to the. The person and their attorney to either accept it or not accept it and then take the chance of going to trial. But if this were to go to trial and a jury sees that, a jury's going to be like, hey, this is, you know, they're all a jury. A jury's not medical professionals either. They're just going to know this girl's a liar, period.

[Hannah]

Yeah, they're just going to see your video. And in that case, it sounds like it might happen that you could possibly testify if it, like, keeps moving. Okay, but we assume this one.

[Mackenzie]

Very rarely do I testify. Very rarely do I testify on cases.

[Hannah]

Okay, so this was not a criminal case because it was insurance. It was a civil case. So. Yeah, but there is, like, child abuse involved. Is anybody involved A mandatory reporter, like, having to get law enforcement involved beyond you, like, what do we do? Is there anybody that had to help?

[Mackenzie]

So for me, I am not a mandated reporter. And everyone thinks if you're a ppi, you should be mandated. I'm not. I am bound by Chapter 493 of the Florida state statute. I am bound to my Client. My client only. Unless, obviously, if something. If someone's in danger or something crazy is happening. But as far as, like, the insurance companies, I don't. I have no idea. I don't know who's a mandated reporter. I have no idea. All I know is that if. If I witnessed the child abuse or I witnessed her leaving him in the car or anything like that, or I witnessed her hurting this child or putting him in danger where she was hurting, whatever, which, if you think about it, like, putting him in these, like, these. The cat, the. The sling and the wrist thing or whatever. Could that be child abuse? Sure. But she wasn't.

[Hannah]

At this point, you don't know.

[Mackenzie]

I don't know. And I. All I knew was that the child wasn't being hurt, and I could tell the child was in good spirits. Like, there was no distress. There was no fear of that. And so all I know is that my. My obligation is to immediately tell my client what's going on. So I told my client, you. You had this ime. I'm at this appointment. This is exactly what's happening. And so I tell my client, and then it's my client's determination if they, you know, want to say something or not. But this child was not in immediate danger or harm or pain. And so there was no, like, there's no need to.

[Hannah]

My. Yeah, I get that. But my initial thought when I first started hearing the story, I was afraid that you were going to witness the mom, like, injuring him. So going into the doctor would be not a lie.

[Mackenzie]

I have had cases where I have had to call the cops.

[Hannah]

Yeah, so you would have called.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

If you saw something like that, that makes sense. Yes, but you were.

[Mackenzie]

And it's common sense, too. Like, I'm bound by. By my client, but my client can take a freaking hike before I let somebody get injured. You know what I mean?

[Hannah]

Like, the K in the back of the car. Just because your client wants you to do surveillance.

[Mackenzie]

But that's another thing, too, is that, like, a lot of times people will say, well, you know, he's acting weird. Why? And why didn't you call the cops? And I'm like, you can't call the cops and say, this guy's acting funny. They're going to be like, welcome to life. Like, I. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what to tell you.

[Hannah]

You need.

[Mackenzie]

But. Because what will happen is a lot of times there'll be a case where someone's acting funny, and then we find out by the end of the case. They did something horrible, and they're like, well, why didn't you tell somebody? I didn't know they were going to do something horrible. They weren't committing any crimes. There was no. Nobody was in danger. I just know the guy was acting. We.

[Hannah]

Like, what do you don't know their patterns yet? Yeah, yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Like, what do you. What do I do? Say, yeah, this guy's walking down the street talking to himself. They're going to be like, o. Okay, thanks. I guess, like, you know what I mean? There's nothing weird.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And I guess with braces and stuff, there are some things where you can wear them. You only have to wear them a certain amount of hours. I can, like, make some justifications that she.

[Mackenzie]

That was a good. I'm glad that you said that, because whenever I got the case, they said that the child has been known to wear braces. And so I. That's another thing. Is that, like, just because he wasn't wearing. I'm not a medical professional. Yeah, he's been known to wear braces, but he didn't at school, but he is now. That's still not. I'm still Paul Blart. Can't. I can't make that determination, so. It's really interesting, though.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it really is. I want to hear everybody else's questions, too.

[Mackenzie]

It was just the fact that she was willing to put this kid through things that he might not need that really blows my mind.

[Hannah]

Can I ask you a question that might frustrate you and me and listeners?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Do you know how the case turned out?

[Mackenzie]

No.

[Hannah]

That's okay. MacKenzie often doesn't get to know the end, and that is very professional, and we're totally okay with that.

[Mackenzie]

It's common when a child is involved for that information to not be available.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

If I used my PI Resources, I could obtain the information, but because the information that I like, if I were to go back and look and say, like, oh, what happened on this case, it's public record, but when it involves a child, it is not as public and less accessible. And so you. You can't. Like, you can't just pull it up all willing. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Haven't you said there have been moments in the past where you've been like, I know a child was involved because it got to a point where it.

[Mackenzie]

Was like, everything is redacted or nothing is available suddenly, and it'll have, like, something. Some statute number on it. And you're like, damn it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Okay. Okay. Well, I really hope that the son is living with a really loving family that helps him get through this horrible baggage he's been left with. And I also hope that the mom gets help and can also be a loving mom in some way. I mean, I know everybody's got something they're dealing with, but it's pretty hard to forgive when you're hurting your own child so hard. And that's where it is frustrating.

[Mackenzie]

That's where people that like people that will lie and con. And it's the same thing as like a dude or a girl gets into a relationship and they, they con the other partner into thinking, just like I said, just like dirty John. Like, he was like, oh, yeah, I'm a surgeon. I do this. And you're making this person think that you're something that you're not. And he did it for money and she did this for money. And it's just, it's all so crappy.

[Hannah]

It's so crappy.

[Mackenzie]

So this is. We talk about dogfish. This is hashtag mom fish.

[Hannah]

This is a mom fish.

[Mackenzie]

Can you imagine your mom being the one who's dog fishing you? Like, she's.

[Hannah]

She.

[Mackenzie]

And she's using you to dogfish other people.

[Hannah]

That's such betrayal on another level. And you can say they were the.

[Mackenzie]

One person who's supposed to protect you. Like, this isn't someone who came into your life and decided to. This is someone who's innately supposed to want to protect you by all means. You know what I mean?

[Hannah]

Yeah. I hesitate to say this, but I'm going to, because the book we read about narcissism and healing from narcissistic abuse by Dr. Ramany, when she talked to us on Patreon, she was talking about narcissistic parents and how people can navigate them. Because she basically was like, you're never going to get an apology. You're never going to get that come to Jesus moment that you want. Like, yeah, it just is what it is. And literally she said, and there are so many people who have children that should not have children. And I, I'm so, like, I don't want people to read that as me being completely closed off to someone dealing with a drug addiction or any kind of addiction or a mental illness. Like, there's so many reasons that we can, like, it's not your fault. It is your responsibility. People heal and do the work and can be good parents despite those things. But, like, this woman doesn't seem to be fit to have a kid. And it makes me really sad the idea of Your mom or any parent just being the cause of your biggest betrayal and not protecting you. That's the thing. It's like, her job was to take care of this kid.

[Mackenzie]

She didn't protect me. Yep.

[Hannah]

We gotta be grateful that if we have a parent that is good to us, call them. If they're still alive, and you can still call them and thank them for teaching you how to be an honest person. Because example is the biggest, biggest thing you can do. And she obviously did not set that example.

[Mackenzie]

I want to know if any of our listeners have experienced something with a parent. Have you been dogfished by your parents or, like, someone that raised you that you thought was something and you were like, holy crap. I grew up and realized my mom or dad was this. Like, I'm so curious to know that.

[Hannah]

Now, even if it's not. Like, I have a friend who didn't realize until she was old enough to comprehend it that her parents, like, like, had a good, friendly relationship, but her dad had a girlfriend, and everybody knew and was totally fine with it and just was what it was. And you can't explain that to a child.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Especially if the dog. If the girlfriend's not. Like, there weren't, like, a polyamorous situation. It wasn't like this woman was part of the life, but she just got older and was like, yeah, everybody just. It worked for them. And I can't. I mean, it is interesting living in this world at, like, 12 or 13, processing that change the way you look at relationships. Not necessarily in a bad way, but I feel like stories like that are very fascinating to me because it's a psychology. I don't know.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I would love to know more about parental dogfish.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I have.

[Mackenzie]

So I want to know.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I want to know. I'm sure there's a lot of narcissist parents. I know for a fact that that's true and very difficult for many people.

[Mackenzie]

I wonder who went through life, like, thinking their parents were one thing, but they were something different.

[Hannah]

Speaking of crazy parents, in the perfect Marriage, the book we're gonna do for book club, my least favorite character was one of the moms. Just you freaking wait, mackenzie, you're gonna want serious.

[Mackenzie]

What do you mean? Oh, my God. I have. Now I have to start.

[Hannah]

Oh, I'm not gonna tell you. But she made me mad. Oh, she made me so mad.

[Mackenzie]

She made me so mad.

[Hannah]

Ladies.

[Mackenzie]

She made me so mad, I could spit you. Wait.

[Hannah]

But yes, Perfect marriage. You guys should read that. You should get some merch. On Patreon, if you're in la, you should come learn self defense with me. And you should all look out for your neighbors.

[Mackenzie]

Wait, today is the drop for the merch for the Patreon ers, right? Yes. Yeah. Today, Monday, Patreon get early access to merch. And then Wednesday, the rest of you will have access to it. So if you want to go ahead and join the Patreon, it's $5 a month, you get early access to the merch and you get the two bonus episodes. Who doesn't want two bon episodes of us each month? I'm so. I'm stupid. It's fine.

[Hannah]

No, you're not. But Patreon is like where we are the stupidest. Like, we get on. I'm like, are we recording? That's like Dating Detectives uncut.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, we don't edit anything. And you guys are gonna be like, oh, my God, they really are idiots. It's fine. I am here.

[Hannah]

It's fine, it's fine. We have a good time. And also, I just love the conversation there, hearing everybody's. Whether it's the responses to the episodes or just advice. People asking for advice about their dating life, their anything. Not that we can like legally give advice, but it's so much nicer to have a support system of people who can at least be like, that sounds really hard.

[Mackenzie]

Yes. And no matter if you share your story with us and it's a Patreon episode or a full episode, please email us your story. Give us a little quickie in the subject line for like, what it's about. Email us at Investigate the Dating Detectives podcast.com and share your story with us. And every time you share your story, you never know how it's going to impact someone else or inspire or just help someone else see that they're not alone. So we really appreciate when you guys share your stories. And also for sharing us on social. When you share our podcast on social, we have so many people who are like, oh, my friend shared you on their social media or whatever. And I didn't know. And so we really appreciate that too. It helps the podcast to grow and really brings more awareness to these dogfish that are out here all willy nilly making fools of themselves and other people.

[Hannah]

And the more we grow, the more diverse stories we can bring you too, because, yeah, I just want to hear from everybody, every type of story, even people who have made mistakes themselves. It's like, you still don't deserve a lot of this treatment. And we can learn from all of the stories, whether we like them or not and usually don't. This one was a. Was a tough one.

[Mackenzie]

I told you it's gonna make you mad. It made me mad, too.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Oh, I can't imagine you sitting there watching those braces go on and off. I'm impressed that you stayed in the car.

[Mackenzie]

Anyways, we love you guys. Thank you so much for listening, and be sure to send us your stories. Join the Patreon to get the merch. I'm so excited for that.

[Hannah]

And as always, always trust your femme tuition. It's.