Re Release: Dr. Dogfish

Summary

Episode Summary: Re Release: Dr. Dogfish

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dating Detectives
• Host/Author: Dear Media
• Episode: Re Release: Dr. Dogfish
• Release Date: December 23, 2024
• Description: In this re-released episode, professional Private Investigator Mackenzie Fultz and Comedian Hanna Anderson revisit one of their most impactful stories, uncovering the intricate web of lies and manipulations spun by a deceptive spouse. The episode sheds light on recognizing red flags and empowers listeners to trust their intuition in the tumultuous world of dating.

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Introduction: Holiday Re-Release

As the hosts Mackenzie and Hannah announce their holiday break, they introduce the re-release of a favorite episode titled "Dr. Dogfish." This episode stands out for its profound narrative and the emotional depth of the guest's story.

[00:35] Mackenzie: "Merry Christmas week from the Dating Detectives."

Meet Kelly: A Story of Deception and Resilience

The focal point of this episode is Kelly, who bravely shares her harrowing experience of being deceived by her husband, Seth—a psychologist and a prominent figure in their Mormon community. Kelly's story is a testament to the complexities of trust and the strength required to reclaim one's life from manipulation.

A Fairy Tale Start

Kelly describes her whirlwind romance and quick engagement within the constraints of her faith, emphasizing the community's perception of her fortunate match.

[02:54] Kelly: "I dated my husband, well, my ex-husband now, for two and a half weeks before we got engaged. So it's a very, very short engagement…"

For seven years, their marriage seemed perfect. Seth's professional success and rising status in the church painted a picture of an ideal partnership. Kelly found herself managing three children while Seth dedicated himself to his practice and the demanding hobby of ultra-running.

[03:54] Hannah: "Free therapy."

The First Red Flag: Mysterious Finances

Kelly’s suspicions began with unexplained credit card bills in Seth's name, initially attributing them to potential identity theft.

[05:31] Hannah: "Good for you for opening it."

Upon confronting Seth, he deflected suspicion onto a high school acquaintance, maintaining that their interactions were purely emotional. Kelly, influenced by her community and church leaders, was urged to forgive and strengthen her marriage, leading her to suppress her doubts.

[07:05] Mackenzie: "As soon as it's questionable."

Uncovering the Truth: Financial Manipulations and Hidden Affairs

As the financial discrepancies continued with unauthorized Western Union transfers and concealed communications, Kelly's intuition battled with Seth's professional manipulations. Despite noticing inconsistent explanations, Seth's expertise in psychology enabled him to gaslight Kelly, making her doubt her own perceptions.

[26:55] Mackenzie: "This is 100% gaslighting."

The pivotal moment arrived when Kelly, driven by intuition, accessed Seth's phone and discovered irrefutable evidence of a physical affair with a woman from South America.

[30:05] Hannah: "He has same password for everything."

Faced with undeniable proof, Kelly confronted Seth, who eventually confessed to his deceit. This realization empowered Kelly to take decisive action, leading to the dissolution of their marriage.

[31:03] Hannah: "Is he insane?"

Empowerment and Moving Forward

Kelly's journey doesn't end with the breakup. She describes the emotional liberation and the restoration of self-trust that followed, highlighting the importance of listening to one's intuition.

[51:44] Kelly: "Now that I know I can trust myself, I am not scared."

Rebuilding her life involved navigating the dating world with renewed confidence, utilizing dating apps like Hinge while avoiding those that didn't align with her values.

[49:08] Kelly: "I'm enjoying it."

Lessons Learned: Trusting Your Intuition

Hosts Mackenzie and Hannah reflect on Kelly's story, emphasizing the critical lesson of trusting one's instincts amidst manipulation and deceit. They discuss the psychological impact of gaslighting and the importance of self-trust in overcoming betrayal trauma.

[59:12] Hannah: "Trust it."

Kelly's narrative serves as both a cautionary tale and an empowering story, reinforcing the podcast's mission to shed light on the darker aspects of the dating world while providing actionable insights for listeners.

Conclusion: A Story of Strength and Recovery

As the episode concludes, Mackenzie and Hannah express profound empathy for Kelly, acknowledging the emotional toll of her experiences. They celebrate her resilience and the clarity she gained in trusting herself, inspiring listeners to remain vigilant and self-assured in their own relationships.

[57:00] Hannah: "Absolutely."

[56:04] Kelly: "I'm building a roster for the first time in my life."

Kelly's courageous disclosure not only offers a deep dive into the manipulative tactics of deceitful partners but also serves as a beacon of hope for those navigating similar challenges, reinforcing the invaluable lesson to always trust one's intuition.

Key Takeaways:

• Trust Your Intuition: Kelly's journey underscores the importance of listening to one's gut feelings, especially when facing inconsistencies in a relationship.
• Recognize Red Flags: From unexplained financial activities to secretive behaviors, identifying early warning signs can prevent deeper emotional entanglements.
• The Power of Self-Reliance: Rebuilding trust in oneself is crucial for recovery and moving forward after betrayal.
• Support Systems Matter: Seeking guidance from trusted sources, whether through therapy or supportive communities, can aid in navigating complex emotional landscapes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kelly: "[...] I didn't know that at the time while I was going through." [43:30]
• Mackenzie: "You cannot break someone's intuition." [45:02]
• Hannah: "This is a podcast to empower us." [51:38]

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Kelly's story in the "Dr. Dogfish" episode stands as a powerful reminder of the resilience of the human spirit and the fundamental importance of self-trust in the face of manipulation and deceit within relationships.

Transcript

[Mackenzie]

Foreign.

[Hannah]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.

[Mackenzie]

Merry Christmas week from the Dating Detectives.

[Hannah]

Yay. We do have a little announcement. So we're taking a holiday break today. We're going to post an older episode.

[Mackenzie]

But it's so good. It was one of our favorites and it was actually one of your favorites too. So if you have not heard it yet, you're in for a treat. It's called Dr. Dogfish was the. Was the name of the episode. And I love, I love this one.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I mean, it was a lot, but she was so amazing. So enjoy re listen to it. Why not? Our favorite stories come back, right?

[Mackenzie]

They really. And then you're like new every time. I'm always re surprised. Like, I know what's gonna happen. And then I'm recent, like, I'll, we'll record an episode and then I'll listen to it. I'll be like, oh, my God, I know.

[Hannah]

Sometimes I forget it's us. I'm like, oh, that's such a good story. Whose story is that?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Thank you, guys. And then if you are on our Patreon, we do have a new episode going up today. Patreon Jon, you get some bonus stuff. You get a lot. And hey, and also you can give Patreon as a gift. So if you're like, oh, no last minute present. Don't know what to get somebody. Shipping's not going to come in time. We got you.

[Mackenzie]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Get them Patreon. So it's so much. I mean, we do a lot. So it's really fun and I love everybody that's on our page.

[Mackenzie]

I think a couple of our Patreon have gifted others a Patreon to the Dating Detectives. And I think that's really cool gift.

[Hannah]

That keeps on giving.

[Mackenzie]

We. Because that's what we do is we give you gifts with. We bring the guest.

[Hannah]

Let her. Let her cook.

[Kelly]

Stupid.

[Mackenzie]

I'm so stupid.

[Hannah]

Guys, we're already on break. We're already on break.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. So anyways, we hope that you enjoy your Christmas, your holiday week, however you're celebrating and enjoy this episode. Are we ready to get into it?

[Hannah]

I'm so ready. We have our beautiful guest here.

[Kelly]

Well, thank you.

[Mackenzie]

We're excited. Kelly, take it away for us.

[Kelly]

I'm so excited to be on the podcast and to finally be able to tell. Tell my story. Do you want me to just jump right in?

[Hannah]

Just jump in. Jump into the water?

[Mackenzie]

Please do. The floor is yours.

[Kelly]

I think important to this story is that I grew up Mormon. I was very Mormon. And I dated my husband, well, my ex husband now, for two and a half weeks before we got engaged. So it's a very, very short engagement, which is not unheard of. It's not a. Well, you know, you can't have sex until you get married. So the engagements are short and you're.

[Hannah]

Like, let's speed this up.

[Kelly]

So we dated for just a short little bit, got married, had this fairy tale marriage. He was a psychologist. Everyone told me how lucky I was to be married to a psychologist because they understand your feelings and are good listeners and you get free. Free therapy.

[Hannah]

Free therapy.

[Kelly]

And he was moving up the ranks in the church really quickly too. And so everyone just constantly being told how lucky I was to be with this man and how wonderful he is and how much everybody loves him and that I just, I hit the jackpot.

[Hannah]

Totally.

[Kelly]

And that worked for about seven years that I know of. And then things went south. He was working a lot and I had three kids by this time. So seven years in, I had already had three children. And I was a stay home mom, very busy with that. And he was a psychologist seeing just tons of clients. And then he took up the hobby of ultra running, which is where you run like a bajillion miles in the woods. I don't know if you've heard of these races just for fun these days. Yeah, no thanks. They go like, the races are like 100 miles long. So they're like, they take up a ton of time. Right. I'm sorry, but you have to train a lot. And so he would say, I'm leaving at like 4am to go train for this race and then I have to see clients. And then he wouldn't come home until like 11:00 at night because he had to see all of his clients and then do all of his paperwork and then come home. So he was gone from like 4am to 11pm Most days of the week, which left me at home with the kids. And we only had one vehicle at the time, so I just was home, home, home. Most of the time you were stuck at home and it was one day, I got the mail, and there was a credit card bill in the mail of a credit card that I didn't know we had. And so I opened it thinking, oh, this must be a mistake. And there are just tons of charges on this credit card. Flights and hotels and just all kinds of stuff. And I thought we had had our identity stolen. Like my.

[Hannah]

It was in his name, naturally.

[Kelly]

Yeah, in his name. And my initial reaction was somebody stole his identity. Someone took a credit card out on him, and now we're gonna have to pay this bill. Because it just never entered my mind that something else would be happening.

[Hannah]

Good for you for opening it.

[Kelly]

Right?

[Hannah]

I feel like I would have been like, this is spam.

[Kelly]

Well, and I wonder if I did that for months. I mean, these charges went like, they were, like, nine months in the making. So it probably did come to our house, and I probably did throw it away several times. And, you know, that femme tuition, you just feel like you need to open it. And I opened it and saw all this. And so I called him, freaking out that someone had stolen his identity and charged a bunch of stuff. And he started to confess that it was his credit card and that we needed to talk. And I immediately said, are you having an affair? And he said, I don't know.

[Mackenzie]

I'm sorry, what? You don't know?

[Kelly]

It's unclear whether or not he was having an affair. And I was like, what does that mean? And he said, let me come home and we can talk about it. So I'm freaking out. He comes home and he starts telling me about this gal from high school that had hit him up because she was having problems with her marriage, and she really wanted some. Someone to talk to. And he's a psychologist, and that's so common.

[Hannah]

But that's also. I think. I mean, I'm. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I consider that cheating alone, like a mo. Like talking to somebody else about your relationship problems is such a red flag.

[Mackenzie]

As soon as it's questionable.

[Kelly]

As soon as it wasn't brought up to me, like, it's not like he came home to me that night and was like, hey, a high school friend reached out and she needs help. And now I'm seeing her pro bono or whatever, you know? But it was definitely a secret. So I was like, well, what's the deal with these flights? So he would leave first thing in the morning, grab a flight he flew. This gal lived in a different state, so he would fly to the other state, see her all day and then fly home and come home. What? No.

[Mackenzie]

Shut the front door.

[Kelly]

Really? Yes. Without me knowing any of it. I had no clue. And oh my God, for like nine months.

[Hannah]

How often was he visiting her? Like once a week. Was it like.

[Kelly]

Yeah, it was probably once a week. There was a couple of the weeks that it was twice a week. But they would drive, so there was one state in between our state and her state, and they would drive and meet up in the middle state for like a couple hours at a hotel and then drive back. So there's some weeks that it was twice a week, but mostly it was once a week for a very long time. And it was a lot of charging.

[Hannah]

Like how.

[Kelly]

Think about those kind of. Yes, he's a very good psychologist. He'll come straight to your.

[Hannah]

Oh, just so dedicated to his work.

[Kelly]

So dedicated.

[Mackenzie]

That's straight up dogfish. Like one married life, one long distance relationship life. Like, oh my God.

[Kelly]

And if it ended there, I'm not even sure I'd be on the podcast. Like, that's happened to a bajillion women. Right? Sure. But it gets so bizarre from that moment on. Everything just turns so weird. So. So he tells me that it's not a physical affair, that they only talk. Okay, I know, I know your reaction. That's the reaction I should have had, but I was so naive and I thought, okay. He's telling me that they didn't touch each other. Like, they. She just needed someone to talk to and she needed to talk in person. I don't know. And so I. We went to our church leaders and our church leader told me that they believe him and that I should believe him. And then they also told me that because there wasn't anything physical, that no laws of God were broken and there's no punishment. Yeah. So it really messed with my brain a lot to be told there's nothing wrong with what he did. Like, they were like, he shouldn't do it and he shouldn't talk to her in case it turns physical. But there was no repercussion. And then they also told me, and this was all the same day that I found out. They told me that it was important that I forgive him and strengthen the marriage, which means have sex. So that night we had sex. Like, literally the night I found out about the maybe affair. Not affair, we had sex and I got pregnant with my fourth child at night. So there was a lot of pressure to believe him and to stay with him and make it work because I was a stay at home Mom, I'm pregnant now with my fourth child.

[Mackenzie]

Did you want to have sex with him that night, or did you feel like it was a duty?

[Kelly]

It's kind of hard to. To know which one it was. I mean, I'm.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

You were so indoctrinated into that.

[Kelly]

Indoctrinated into it. I'm a very sexual being anyways, so I probably did want to more in a Right, say, make him want me way versus a. Like, I actually want to do this kind of way.

[Hannah]

Well, that's, I think, a good point, because we talk about this a lot. The idea of somebody straying from the marriage being your fault, being something you can change by making them want you more.

[Kelly]

I had even asked him, like, what did I do to make you need someone else? And he was telling me, you're not a very good listener, and you're not very nice. I mean, he was. He was letting me know all the reasons why it was my fault. So I ate it up. Yeah. And I thought, okay, I need to be a better listener. I need to. I definitely need to make sure anytime he wants sex, we're having sex. Like, that was definitely part of the pressure to make him happy. It was always about making him happy. So I find a cell phone bill, like, three or four months later, and her number is all over it. And so I went to him and was like, what's going on? And then he tells me that even though she was a nurse, he tells me that she has friends who are high up in tech and that she probably broke into the cell phone company to put her number there to try to break up our marriage. Because she was so upset when he broke it off. Stop it right now. And I believed him. I was like, why would she do that? Well, that's so outlandish. She's done this before to guys. She'll break into computers. She'll like. He's like, we've got to be on our toes, because she can make things look like they've happened and.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Hannah]

I have a question.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Did you ever consider contacting her?

[Kelly]

I called her after, like, literally right after this. So I get the. I have the conversation with him, and I called her because the number was right there. And I'm like. I did the. The horrible thing where you're like, you're the problem in my marriage, you know, and told her to stay away from my husband. And I. I did ask her, did you have a physical relationship with my husband? And she said, my physical relationship with Seth is none of your Business. Wow. I was like, no, just tell me. Can you just tell me if you had a physical relationship with him? And she hung up the phone. So I was still with that question of, like, wait, did they have sex? She's making it sound like they had sex. In that case, then he did have an affair. And it is this horrible thing. And. And so that really messed with my brain. And then I. It kind of led me down the path of, like, there's gotta be more. Something's not adding up here. And so I started looking for emails of his that I was unaware of because he kind of always puts his name at the email and he has the same password for everything, and I already know it. And so I found a Yahoo Email that was a dumb.

[Mackenzie]

He's a dumb.

[Kelly]

He's really not found the Yahoo email. And this is where it gets a little weirder. On the Yahoo Email are all these emails back and forth to hookup sites. And it's his office, and he's explaining how to get to his office and how quiet it is. And he's explaining that people are in and out of his office all the time. So it would be super discreet. It wouldn't even. No one would even know what.

[Hannah]

Wait, so. Oh, my God. People would come into his office like.

[Kelly]

Like, they'd make an appointment, like, as if they're going to see their therapist, and they would hook up in the office. And then.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Kelly]

I confront him about this, and he tells me that it's the girl and her techie friends making it look like he did this to break up our marriage. And I believed him again. And so I. In my mind, I'm thinking, she's just the most evil thing on the planet. She's doing everything she can and creative. So creative. So what's the next thing she's gonna do? Like, there was always the explanation of her being this tech genius to just wipe away everything that he did.

[Hannah]

This episode of the Dating Detectives is sponsored by BetterHelp. So we all know that trusting your femme tuition can be hard. We are working on it every single episode and every single day. But it takes practice. And I've definitely found that an amazing way to practice is in therapy. And there's such an easy way to do that with better help. If you haven't heard of BetterHelp, it's so great. It's all online. I've used it, and I have a funny story about when I started using it. So I made my, like, intro meeting and set it for a Saturday around midday. And it just so happened that I had just started dating someone and I spent the night, all right. And I was like, oh, my God, I have therapy in the morning. So I was like, yo, I need to do this call. Can I have the room, please? So I basically kicked him out of his apartment so that I could do therapy. So then it was so easy and I got to introduce myself to this therapist. But what was so nice is that it was so flexible. I really, really got a lot out of the time that I was going to better help because it was a big transition time. I knew I needed help just to feel my best. And I got that at my own pace and at my own convenience. And I've never had an easier therapy experience. It's entirely online, it's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to your schedule. If you're thinking about therapy, I think it's such a great way to start no matter where you are, even if it's in someone else's bed. Let therapy be your map with BetterHelp. If you're interested, visit betterhelp.com TDD today to get 10% off your first month. So that's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com TDD as in the dating detectives.

[Kelly]

And so it finally got to the point where I said, we need to move. Like, we need to move. We need to change our numbers. We need to get away from this girl because she's going to ruin our lives kind of thing.

[Hannah]

She's like, yeah, it's almost stalker behavior, right?

[Kelly]

And so we moved to a different state, changed our numbers, started a whole new life.

[Mackenzie]

You moved because of her?

[Kelly]

Yes, because it was so, like, I woke up every day wondering what new things she's going to break into. And then what if she starts doing it to me? What if people show up at my house because she's sending people to my house? I mean, he really got in my head as far as the capacity of this person to destroy our lives. And that's like, you can't live like that, especially with little kids. And I had a, you know, almost brand new baby on the way. Like, it would just, it was really, it was scary. And so, yeah, it was worth moving to a new state. It was worth changing our whole lives. And he agreed to it, which is like, he's, he's committed to the bit, I'll tell you that. Like, he's committed.

[Hannah]

Yeah, he must have been like, I mean, cause that means changing his job, like moving his practice yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Did he get a new job out of like a new practice? Like he just all willy nilly up and moved in? Yes.

[Kelly]

So the new state he gets, he gets a new job, he loses it. Like two months later, he gets a new job, he loses it. And he kept losing his job for misconduct. And we were in a very conservative state and he would blame it on the conservative women and how they don't know how to do business with men and how they take everything as flirting when it's not flirting. And I.

[Hannah]

So it was like sexual misconduct.

[Kelly]

It had to have been. I did. I mean, it was always just labeled misconduct. And I so embarrassed to say that I did this, but I jumped on the bandwagon with him and we're like, yeah, these women, they're so stupid. They don't know how to.

[Hannah]

They're too sensitive.

[Kelly]

They're too sensitive. They think everyone's flirting with them and they just aren't used to being in professional settings because we're in this backwoods state.

[Hannah]

You don't want to believe it. And also, it's like he's also, we're not, I mean we. You've mentioned it and you know this, but like I'm remembering that he is a psychologist.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Hannah]

Knows how to manipulate other people's psychology. That's kind of his. Not manipulate. Therapist's job is to change how you think and help you think differently.

[Kelly]

Yes, yes. And so then another life change comes and we both decide to leave the Mormon religion, which is a whole nother, like huge life transition. And the community we were in was very Mormon and we felt like we needed to move again more for the sake of our children because like soft shunning kind of stuff. So we move states again, I'm sorry. And we leave the religion. And there's lots of transition in that. And I ask him, let's revamp our marriage again. Let's like set our foundation again and really try to be together.

[Mackenzie]

How long had it been up to this point? How long had it been since you initially found that credit card?

[Kelly]

At that point, three or four years, maybe more. Five years. Yeah. So we moved states, we restart our lives again. He gets a really good job, a well paying, high paying job, and we never have any money. And I cannot figure it out for the life of me, like ever. Like, we are constantly just barely making it through the month. And I was always in charge of our finances. And he at this point had decided that he wanted to do all the taxes. He said that it was complicated and he knows how stressful it is with me with the four kids. And he just wanted to take stuff off my plate. I mean, he just made it sound like he was being just a saint. A saint, a good person, helping me out kind of thing. And so I didn't see the taxes for several years, but I knew that we were always under a crunch, and I could not figure it out. And I. So I started looking at our bank statements, and there was a ton of Western Union transfers on our bank statements. And again, even with his history, my first thought is, someone has broken into our bank account, because why would we be sending Western unions? And I sound. So. This is. This is what's so hard. I sound. It makes me sound so naive. I'm like. I'm not like an uneducated person, but when it's someone you love, you just. The blinders are so thick.

[Hannah]

I mean, we all are like that there are those people in your life that you're just like, they would never.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And so I confront him about the Western Union. He says the company he's working for, they hired a team out of South America, and he's in charge of paying them, which is not. Would not be unheard of. We actually both had lived in South America at one point. We have lots of contacts there. Like, that's not so far. I mean, I thought it was weird that the company wanted him to pay for it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, right.

[Kelly]

And they. And he said, they pay me back in my paychecks. And so after several months of this, I said, it doesn't feel like they're paying us back in your paychecks. And he's like, oh, let me look into it. I'll see. And then he'd come back and say, oh, you're right. They missed last month. I'll make sure they get it on the next month. Like, there was just always, like, a. Push it down the line a little bit. And, like, four kids, I was super busy. It's not like I had all day long to just sit and try to figure out these financials. Like, I'm running people to sports, we're doing school. Like, all of this stuff. And finally I just get sick of it. And I'm like, this Western Union stuff is outrageous. He had gone to South America twice that year for business trips to check on the team. Oh, no. And I finally confront him. I'm like, I want to talk to your boss about this Western Union stuff. I'm done with it. And so then he confesses a story. He says that when he was in South America. He got in a car wreck in the rental car. And that the rental car company said, we're either going to send you to jail or you're going to pay off this car. And so that's where the western unions have been going to pay off this vehicle.

[Hannah]

And he didn't want to tell you because he got.

[Kelly]

And he didn't want to tell me because I would be mad because I'm such a mean person. Also, I don't listen. Also, I mean, like, just all this stuff about me.

[Mackenzie]

Oh boy.

[Kelly]

And so I was like, okay, like one, you should have told me. I can handle that. Also. They just let you go with a promissory note that you would pay it. Like, that doesn't really make sense.

[Mackenzie]

Like, right.

[Kelly]

It's not like the US is going to extradite you because you didn't pay off your rental car. Like, it just, it's one of those stories that like, I'm trying to listen to it and it is just my femme tuition is like screaming at me. This does not make sense. And so I'm trying to understand it. And he's like adamant that that's the story. And so again, I go into one of these modes where I'm like, I wonder what else he's hiding. And I look up that old email, which he still didn't change his password on.

[Hannah]

He didn't get a new email. He's just like, he didn't get a new email.

[Kelly]

It was the same old email. And there are tons of emails back and forth to a woman in South America. And it's all in Spanish. And I confront him, does he speak Spanish? He does speak Spanish. We both speak Spanish. Yeah. Because we both lived in South America for a while.

[Hannah]

I was gonna say that would be.

[Mackenzie]

Really like, did you get somebody to translate so you, you could translate it?

[Kelly]

Oh, translate it right away. Yeah. You're the love of my life. I can't wait to see you. I can't believe that something so good is happening to me. I'm just nonstop lovey dovey, like, like stuff I wish he would have said to me, to be honest. Like, really romantic. Sweet.

[Mackenzie]

How long was he in South America? Every time he went, like 10 days.

[Kelly]

I mean, it's a long flight. Like, if you're going to go down there, you go down there for a while. Yeah. So each time, and even one of the times it was right during COVID era and he was going to get stuck there when everyone was closing down and my parents, like used all of their Miles to get him out of the country as fast as they could.

[Hannah]

Like, he was probably like, dang it. These dang.

[Kelly]

Right? He probably would have loved to stay down there for a couple months. Yeah, it's devastating.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Kelly]

So I confront him about these emails, thinking. And you would think at that point he's caught, right? No. He tells me that in the airport he was crying and a man came up to him and asked him what's wrong? And he told him about his wife and how his wife is not supportive and she's really mean to him and he just doesn't feel supported. And the man said, oh, me too. I'm having a really hard time with my marriage too. And they decide together that they're going to email each other loving emails pretending to be the loves of each other's lives to help each other get through this hard time.

[Mackenzie]

I know when I repeat the story.

[Kelly]

I cannot believe I believe these things. But I said, well, then why, like, practice their practicing? Practicing as if they had a great marriage? And I said, well, why does this dude have a girl's name? And he said, because I wasn't comfortable emailing a dude. And the guy said, it's cool. I'll be the girl. And that's what the emails were. And I. It was one of those, like, I knew. I knew not to believe it, but. But I believed it. And it part. Okay, this is part of the believing it. He told me, he said, I know that your intuition is telling you that this isn't right. And he said, but I broke your intuition on the first affair. And as like a mental health, you know, person, I can. I can tell that you're just hypersensitive and you're not going to be able to know when things are true and when they aren't for a long time because you still need to heal.

[Mackenzie]

He said, your intuition was broken. Yeah, you cannot break intuition.

[Kelly]

I thought you could. Like, I mean, a psychologist tells you you can, and you go, oh, okay.

[Hannah]

I mean, we've that idea of, like, betrayal, trauma, forcing you, leading you to question your own intuition.

[Mackenzie]

You can question it, but there ain't no breaking your intuition. It's there.

[Kelly]

And then he goes on this, like, I can't live like this, where you're constantly questioning me and constantly trying to dig up dirt and constantly trying to.

[Mackenzie]

He's such a. By the way, you guys, this is called gaslighting, this whole thing. I know that now, like, this is 100% gaslighting. Go ahead.

[Kelly]

So then I think, okay, like, the problem is me. And I even told him, I said, it's really, I don't know how to live in a world where I don't know whether my gut is telling me the truth or not. Sorry, I might cry. No, it's because that's such a sad thing. It's such a traumatic thing to think it is. I can't trust myself. And when you have a, Even though he was my partner and even though he had messed up a lot, when you have a psychologist telling you, yeah, you can't trust yourself, like, you really believe it. You really believe. I, I, I don't have an intuition. It's broken. I can't trust myself. I can't, like, all of my feelings. Like, I'm, I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[Mackenzie]

And like, so you have to count.

[Kelly]

On him to tell me the truth or not. And I would, like, look in his eye and he would grab my face and he would look in my eyes and he would be like, I promise you, that's what is happening. And he would just. And so I just believed him because sometimes it's, it's the only, like, psychologically it's the only thing you can do because otherwise you can't even function. You can't do your day, you can't take care of your kids because your brain is so messed up trying to make these stories fit. And so I just believed him. I just chose to believe him, knowing, like, even in the back of my mind knowing that I probably shouldn't. So I think it's this dude from the airport. I tell him I'm not comfortable with him emailing this dude from the airport. He needs to stop, and that if he has feelings that he wants to share, he should share them with me. He agrees to it. So he's always been really weird about his phone as well. And he would never have it up. He would never let me look at his phone. He would never anything.

[Mackenzie]

Of course not.

[Kelly]

And he would always say, it's hipaa because he's a psychologist. I can't look at his phone because his clients are on there. And it would be like, like unethical kind of thing, which is sticky because that could be true for people. You know, it could be true that for hipaa, you can't look at someone's phone. I don't know. But, so one night, I mean, things were just getting bad and I, he always kept his phone, by the way, under, beneath the mattress and above the box spring. Oh, my God. So at night he would Tuck his phone beneath the mattress and the box spring, and then he would lay on top of it.

[Hannah]

So, like the Princess and the Pea. So he would know if you got in there. The princess and the iPhone.

[Kelly]

He would know it was there or something. Yes, yes. But one night I just thought, I can't. I need to see what's on this phone. Like, something's up. And so I got like two bottles of wine. I got him very drunk. I not maybe proud of that, but I knew it needed to be enough that he wouldn't feel you. And so we went to bed. I hadn't had hardly anything, so he had drank almost the whole two bottles. He was out. And so I waited till like two in the morning, snuck around the bed, was, like on all fours, stuck my hands up in between the mattress and box spring, and pulled out his phone. And I did know the password to his phone. So I opened up the phone. I'm looking through the text. There's nothing.

[Mackenzie]

He's so dumb.

[Kelly]

There's nothing in the text.

[Hannah]

He has same password for everything.

[Kelly]

He has the same password for everything. Yeah. And then, so I'm just kind of scrolling, I'm thinking, okay, like, nothing's up. And I get to the WhatsApp app and I open it up, and there is this woman. It is not a man from the airport. And there are pictures and there are videos and there are texts, and there is. I mean, it is undeniable evidence of the affair that they are having and that it is not an emotional affair. It is very much a physical affair. And even that night, we had held hands. We had had sex, and he went into the bathroom after that and messaged her that he wants to be with her forever and can't wait to see her and can't wait till she comes because they were planning on her coming. Like he was helping her get her passport ready and all this stuff. Yes.

[Mackenzie]

What.

[Kelly]

So I.

[Hannah]

Is he.

[Kelly]

Is he what?

[Hannah]

Insane?

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Insane?

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Kelly]

He's. I.

[Mackenzie]

My psychological answer is yes.

[Hannah]

Yes. Our diagnosis, diagnosing him.

[Kelly]

So I wake him up with a glass of water to the face because I know that he is drunk. And he wakes up and I say, I've seen it all. I've seen the texts. And I, you know, confronted him about his story about getting in the car wreck in South America. And he did confess that he didn't get in a car wreck, that this was all money that he was sending to her. And I asked him how much it was, and he said he was really unclear. He doesn't know how much he sent her. But I did go back and add it up, and it was somewhere in the ballpark of $40,000. So. Holy crap.

[Mackenzie]

That's like an annual salary for some people.

[Kelly]

It probably was her annual salary, to be honest. And did make me feel better about the fact that we never had any money. I'm like, why do we never have any money? Oh, because we're supporting. We've adopted a South American.

[Hannah]

You are doing charity. Oh, my God.

[Kelly]

She's.

[Mackenzie]

We adopted a South American woman.

[Hannah]

He's like, it's for the church.

[Kelly]

And I say, you're leaving right now. And. Yeah. And so he's, like, freaking out, and he's like, can we talk? And I was like, no, we cannot. Packs his suitcase and leaves for the night.

[Hannah]

Good for you, because that's his. His weapon is talking. He knows how to talk himself out of anything.

[Kelly]

Well, don't. Don't say good for me yet, because he comes back the next day.

[Hannah]

No, good for you because it's still hard. I can't. You can't blame yourself for anything.

[Kelly]

Well, and it's. There is something to be said about being a stay at home mom with no income. It's scary. It's scary to think of what you're gonna do and not.

[Mackenzie]

You're relying on this person that you know is lying to your face.

[Kelly]

Yes. So after I found out about the affair with the South America lady. So he comes back the next day and is like, you can have anything you want. You. I'll give you everything in the divorce. I'm so sorry. Like, so apologetic, so sweet. I'm dying because I'm like, okay. Like, what if I. What if. What if this really was it? Like, what if he's done? What if this was the wake up call he needed? What if now we could have a happy marriage? What if I could save my family? What if I. And the what ifs are just, like, so loud. And so I talked to my own therapist, and she told me that if it's that loud and I need to, you know, know that, why don't I give him another shot? And so I did. And I said, this is your last shot. Like, let's try to make this work. And it was really loving for a couple months. And then the weirdness started weaving its way back in. Like, he'd be really, really loving. And then with an undercut. So, like, I found a receipt in his pants for flowers, and he had never bought me flowers. And I said, who'd you Buy flowers for. And he said, well, I bought them for you, but then I got so mad at you that I threw them away. And it was, like, devastating to be like, oh, okay, I'm not like. And so he'd be like, you can be so sweet, but do you remember when you cut in when I was trying to talk to the kids? And he'd be like, it's just. It undermines my parenting, and it makes me really mad at you. And so I'm like, I'm constantly trying to be this perfect person. Like, listen perfectly and love perfectly and never have an argument and don't. Absolutely, don't try to intervene in parenting whatsoever. And, like, just. It was knots and knots tying myself up in knots. And it goes so slow that you don't realize how knotted you are. And then you're so knotted that you think, maybe I just need one more knot. A little bit tighter knot a little bit. There's just a constant pull of, like, what can I. I found another receipt for sunglasses. And again, he, like, has this of he saw some people on the street and thought he would do a good deed and got them sunglasses. I mean, there was just always a story. He said, he's going to the gym. My broken intuition was like, I don't think he's going to the gym. And so I drove to the gym. His car is not there. He comes home with this story of, oh, I decided to go on a walk instead. And, like. And he's like, this is what I'm talking about. You're going to constantly question me for the rest of our lives. And so I. Yeah, you've already.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Kelly]

I was just thinking, like, it's always my fault. It was always, always, always my fault. And he would, like, go away for nights at a time and just say he needed a break from the family and that he was going to turn his phone off because he just needed a break. Or business trips were big, too. I'm going on a business trip. I'll be gone for 48 hours on this business trip. And there was no way to check it. Like, there was no. Like, you can't call his boss and be like, I'm sorry, but we're having marriage problems. Can you tell me if he's on this business? Or, like, that's not. You can't do that. So. So I just always trusted him. And there was never any money. It was the weirdest thing. He was making good money, and we never, ever had any money to the point where I was like, we might have to sign up for Medicaid. Like, I. We don't have any money ever. And he was like, oh, the company's behind on paying me. And, like, there just always was an excuse on what needed to happen. So I was getting ready for my son's sports tournament, and I get a phone call from a woman. And she says, is this Kelly? And I said, yes, it is. And she goes, I am so. And so she says her name, and I. I don't know who this person is. I'm like, okay. And she said, I've been dating Seth for the last 10 months, which means he was only a fair free for, like, a month and a half from.

[Mackenzie]

The first time to her and from the move and from everything from the second.

[Kelly]

The South America one to her was only like, a month and a half.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Kelly]

And my initial reaction, I said, not again. I just said, not again. And she goes, what do you mean, not again? And then she tells me he had told her he was a single dad. Our kids go to the same school. She met. She met my children. He took my children to meet her and then told my children to lie to me about it.

[Mackenzie]

Absolutely not. Done. Oh, my hundred percent, we are done.

[Kelly]

She was calling to let me know that she's pregnant. And it was, like, the weirdest. It seems like it would be the worst moment of my life, but it was almost the best moment of my life, because all of a sudden, all of the knots I was tied in, all of them came undone. I knew I was done. I knew that this marriage was completely over. I knew that I never had to do any of this anymore. I knew that my intuition wasn't broke. I knew, like, it was the weirdest side of relief.

[Hannah]

Yes, everything is clear ever.

[Kelly]

Ever. And I actually felt bad for this other woman because she's going through her first, you know, turmoil with him, and she's bawling, and I'm like, all right, what do we do? Where's my lawyer? How do I do this? Like, it was such a breath of air. But she. So she tells me that she's been wanting to meet me for a long time because they're talking marriage, they're talking all this stuff. And he tells her. He told her that I was diagnosed with multiple personality disorder and that he didn't want to introduce her to me because I can become very violent with people. And he wanted to protect her and all this.

[Hannah]

He probably was telling her that you had friends in tech who could break.

[Kelly]

Into her phone and her computer and all this Stuff. And I. I just laughed. I was like, I don't have multiple personality disorder. And then she was like, but I've met your children. And that really bothered me. So I talked to my kids about it, and they were just bawling. Cause they're older, they're teenagers. They're not like little children.

[Mackenzie]

I'm gonna cry.

[Kelly]

Well, I might cry too, because they would have. They told me that they would have sibling meetings where they would get together and say, how can we help mom figure this out so we don't have to lie to her anymore? And so they would, like, be like. They'd be like, we know that dad talks to her in the. Early. In the mornings. How do you think we could wake mom up early enough so that she hears it? And so they knew.

[Hannah]

They fully knew.

[Kelly]

They fully knew what was happening. They're all in therapy now. They're all working on trusting their dad again.

[Hannah]

How about that?

[Kelly]

Because that, like, not to mention the.

[Mackenzie]

Trust they're going to have with partners in the future.

[Kelly]

They've even, like, even my son has told me, like, that he's. He's already feeling like there's going to be issues for him because he's so afraid that someone will cheat on him. And I'm like, ah, dude. Like, not everybody's a cheater. It's going to be okay. And like I said, we're going to real therapists. Which also is like a catch 22. When you're. When you know your partner was. You don't trust therapists, you're kind of like, they can. They can be bad people too, but it's. It's okay. And they're. They're all doing okay, and they're all such good kids. And they felt so terrible. And it's been really important to let them know none of this is their fault. None. And it was absolutely okay that they kept the secret from me because they got told to by a parent. Like, that's not their fault.

[Mackenzie]

What made her call you? Like, why willy nilly just decided to call you?

[Kelly]

I think they got in a fight because the night before I was out with my husband and we were talking about our future and how happy we were going to be together. And we were holding hands and walking along the waterfront. And it was a supremely romantic night followed by lots of good lovemaking. And I think that next day they got in a fight. I think he probably either confessed that he was married because she knew now at that point, or something like, I think it was a catalyst of him going, maybe. Maybe I'm not going to leave her. Me kind of thing. Like, I don't know. And so I think they got in a fight because while she's talking to me on the phone, Seth is just blowing up my phone. Just texting and calling and texting and saying, don't talk to her, Please talk to me first. Like, all this stuff. So, like, he knew she was going to call me. So I think he confessed to her. And she was like, this is bullshit. I'm calling your wife. Which I totally like. I've thanked her many times for calling me because I know that was probably really hard. She was probably scared. Like, how was I going to react? Like, I could, you know, yell at her. I could make her the mistress.

[Mackenzie]

Well, and she's hurt, too. Now she's pregnant, she's hurt. Did she ever. Do you know if she ever had the baby?

[Kelly]

She did not have the baby. And I don't know how that ended. I don't know if it was a conscious choice or if it was a just, like, medical thing, but it didn't end up in viability. Wow. But I did find out about the financial stuff within all of this, too. So I had thought once the Western Union charges were gone, like, we're gonna have all this back. Like, all of a sudden it's going to feel like we have so much more money. And it never did. It still felt like we didn't have any money ever. And there were so many charges all over the bank accounts for Amazon and Walmart and even. Even, like gas stations and stuff. And I could not make the numbers add up. Like, the amount of packages I have, which is a lot, still didn't add up to the amount of charges I was having for these different stores. So he owned his own business and he had a credit card processing account with stripe. And there's a thing in there where you can go in and name an invoice anything you want. So you can name it Amazon, you can name it Walmart, you can name it these things.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my.

[Kelly]

And he was charging our account and sending it to a new bank account. So that's why all the money just kept not being there. Is we would get paid and then he would charge all these different. I mean, small enough amounts and enough things that like, I'm going to go through and look at all of the Amazon charges. Am I really going to demand every Walmart receipt? You know what I mean? Like, he was. He was really smart in moving money and it was all going to this New lady.

[Mackenzie]

And what was he, was he buying her things or just supporting her in general?

[Kelly]

A little bit of everything. He had told her he was a millionaire and so he had to keep up that millionaire facade. All of his business trips were not business trips. Like they had gone to California together and they had gone off to a hot springs for their like six month anniversary together. And they had. So anytime he had a business trip, it was just him paying for luxury trips for him and her and, and then like, yeah, flowers and gifts and all kinds of things. So you can cheat your bank account. Like you can, if you have the right credit card processing software, you can make it look, there's, there is a way to tell if it's real if you click on it. If it's the real company, it should drop down the phone number, it should drop down the address. If it's a fake company, it's just the name. You're not going to be able to drop down anything off of it. So I, you know, I could look back and see which ones were fake and which ones were real. But I didn't know that at the time while I was going through.

[Hannah]

So that's good to know that.

[Kelly]

Is it right not to make anybody paranoid, but click on the, click on the name, see if it drops down actual information. There's gonna be all sorts of women on their big accounts tonight just like clicking on everyone. But it's true. You can like, sadly, you can fake charging.

[Mackenzie]

I am like, I'm literally speechless when he said, your intuition is broken. You cannot break someone's intuition. You can make them question it, you can make them not believe it, you can make them choose to ignore it, but you cannot break it. It is not breakable. It is innately within us. You cannot break it.

[Kelly]

And it is so. I don't even know the word for it. To be able to trust myself again and to be able to look back and say, oh, I was right. I was right. It was okay for me to feel this way. It was okay for me to question this. It was okay for me to, like, I was right this whole time. I'm not broken. Like, I walk lighter, I smile bigger. I. It's a whole new life. I have a whole new life.

[Mackenzie]

I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy to hear that. After all the times just being, allowing yourself to believe him. Because this is your husband. And when you get married, that's something that you, that's something that you cherish, is, that's us until the very end. No matter what. Good times, bad times, that's what marriage is about. And so whenever, like, he said those things and you just wanted to believe him, it was like, that was your first instinct. This is my husband. This is my partner.

[Kelly]

And he's a psychologist. He knows, like.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. So how many different relationships were there?

[Kelly]

I mean, that I know of.

[Mackenzie]

At least three.

[Kelly]

Three that I know of. Plus all the hookup things. Like, I don't. There were dozens of those. I don't know. There's has to be stuff that I didn't know about. Like, there's no way that I figured out all of the ones that. Every single one.

[Mackenzie]

Every single one of them.

[Kelly]

I'm sure I will say one other note is timing. Like, I think had I. I definitely know, had I left after the first affair, I would wonder for the rest of my life, like, if it would have gotten better. And even after the second affair that I know about, I always have to say that I know about. I think I would have still wondered, like, could I have saved it? And the good news about how horrible the last one was is, like, it was the finality I needed for me to be able to be like, oh, there's no saving this. Like, this thing was dead a long time ago, and you need to let it go.

[Mackenzie]

When she called you and she said, I've been in a relationship with your husband for the last 10 months, and you said, that's it. I was done. Was there an immediate, like, instant, kind of like, oh, I'm hurt. That sucks, and then you went. Or was it just like, okay, we're like, we're done. This is fine.

[Kelly]

It was a. I didn't even cry. It was an immediate, like, take your breath away for a second. And then it. All the. It was like this, like, stack of cards, like, everything just fell back into place, like, where it was supposed to be, where it's like, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. You don't have to question yourself anymore.

[Mackenzie]

I love, love, love how you said that all the knots came untied, and I did.

[Kelly]

They literally all came untied. And I could take a deep breath, and it just was so, like, I. I. Relieving. It's so relieving.

[Hannah]

Yeah, you're free.

[Mackenzie]

And that is so validating for once to finally be like that, mother. I was right. And just to be like that, this.

[Kelly]

Isn'T actually my fault. This is a him thing.

[Mackenzie]

Nope. I'm so glad that you got to that point. How long has it been since that incident?

[Kelly]

Like him, it has not been years. This was five months ago. Wow. Really?

[Mackenzie]

This was so recent.

[Hannah]

You are so strong. I was gonna ask, are we dating again? But five months is not that long.

[Kelly]

Well, we are dating, but not like, in a serious. Not in a serious way.

[Mackenzie]

You. Listen, if you're not Mormon anymore, can you just, like, have fun without just jumping into marriage?

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Yes. I am building a roster for the first time in my life.

[Hannah]

Yay.

[Mackenzie]

She's put.

[Kelly]

Wait. Yes.

[Mackenzie]

She's putting notches in her belt.

[Kelly]

But I'm very honest. I am very honest with everyone. Oh, my gosh, so much excitement. It's been so fun. I. I'm very honest with everyone. I'm like, listen, I'm not looking for relationships. I'm just having fun. I just got out of a very long. And everyone's been more than willing to have fun.

[Hannah]

If you're comfortable sharing. Are you on apps? Are there any apps that you love? Any apps that you're, like, not into it?

[Kelly]

I did Tinder for, like, five minutes. That's a terrible app. I don't know what's happening on there, but it was really scary. And there was lots of in your face stuff.

[Mackenzie]

It's the dick pics. The dick pics are in your face.

[Kelly]

Don't mind a good dick pic. But, I mean, it's gotta be like, you assy. Like, it's gotta be. Yeah, it's gotta be part of the conversation. Not like the conversation.

[Hannah]

It can't just be all willy nilly.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah. I'm on. I'm on hinge. I really like hinge.

[Mackenzie]

Have you used hinge, Hannah?

[Hannah]

I'm on hinge. Yeah, and I like hinge too. It goes hot and cold for me. There are some times where I'm like, ooh, it's going great. And then other times I'm like, is it me? I'm gonna blame the algorithm. It might be me, but I'm gonna blame the algorithm.

[Kelly]

I'm enjoying it.

[Mackenzie]

That's so awesome. I love seeing your smile.

[Hannah]

Do you have an app opener?

[Kelly]

I don't know what that is. Oh, like a thing to say in conversation.

[Hannah]

The first thing you send if or do you let them come to you.

[Kelly]

I let them come to me. I'm so weird about that. Like, it's so funny.

[Mackenzie]

So, no, Bumble. Bumble's the one where the girl has to message first.

[Kelly]

I did try Bumble, and I don't like that because you're just sitting There going. Do I say, how's your day?

[Hannah]

Can I tell you my opener?

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

On Bumble. Yes, you may speak now. Is one I've used. Or.

[Kelly]

Or just be like, that's so much.

[Hannah]

You're welcome.

[Kelly]

That's brilliant.

[Mackenzie]

You're welco welcome.

[Kelly]

I am here. You're welcome.

[Hannah]

Those are those. Because that's also, like. It's like, funny. You get it. But then it also gives them the opportunity to, like, do their opener.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

So it's like.

[Kelly]

And it's, like, flirty and. Yeah, I love that.

[Mackenzie]

A little silly. I don't. If I had a date right now, like, on dating apps, I wouldn't know what to do. Like, I would be like, hello. And they'd be like, hi. And I'd be like, no, you're done. We're done. Like, I can't. I would be like, I don't. I already don't trust you. Like, I cannot trust anybody.

[Kelly]

Interestingly, you would think I would not trust people, right? You would think I'd be, like, all scared. It's a good thing you brought up the dating apps. Now that I know I can trust myself, I am not scared. Like, if I go into a situation and the dude, for whatever reason, I'm kind of like, I'm not feeling this. I will literally say, I'm not feeling this. I'm gonna leave. And I don't have any qualms about it because I'm like, I don't owe you anything. And my femme tuition is completely intact. And if I'm not feeling this or I don't.

[Mackenzie]

Are you ladies listening?

[Kelly]

No, seriously, though, like, it's not a.

[Hannah]

Podcast to make us lose faith. This is a podcast to empower us.

[Kelly]

It almost did the opposite. Like, this whole situation almost did the opposite effect where I trust myself so much now that, like, I can stand up for myself and I can fill a situation out. And it has been kind of.

[Mackenzie]

I have gooseies, you guys. I got. I got goosebumps. Thank you so much for telling your story. This is. I just can't believe he was up to some shenanigans.

[Hannah]

Is he still practicing?

[Kelly]

No, he's not. He let his license go and he just does business consultation from then on out. So he doesn't. He's not in private practice. He's not meeting with individual people anymore.

[Hannah]

So none of our listeners have to be worried about accidentally that he's their psychologist.

[Kelly]

They're like, wait, are you literally.

[Mackenzie]

Kelly. Like, you guys, I love her so much. Thank you so much for sharing Your story. I can't even. Like, this is the first time I've ever cried on this podcast. Like, the first time where I actually got, like, in my. In, like, in my spirit, I felt, oh, caringan. I just want to tell you how much we appreciate you sharing your story, because I know how hard that can be to share, and I think it seems like it. It's probably harder, especially when, like, a lot of women tend to blame themselves and feel like, oh, how stupid could I be? Whatever. These stories are not easy to tell. So we're just so grateful. And because you tell your story, another woman is going to feel less alone. So I.

[Kelly]

We're really grateful. Thank you. That's how I feel when I listen to your stories. So I really hope I can do that for someone else.

[Hannah]

I'm so excited for your family, your kids. Like, I want updates on the apps if you want to share them.

[Kelly]

Absolutely.

[Hannah]

As you go on my roster, we're sending all the love to you guys.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, listen, this girl and her roster. I love it. We're really glad that you came on the podcast. Thank you a million times. We really appreciate you.

[Kelly]

Thank you so much. Wow.

[Mackenzie]

So wild ride. Did I tell you? I told you guys.

[Hannah]

Mackenzie, you got so emotional. I wanted to give you a hug through the screen.

[Mackenzie]

I had never cried before listening to one of these stories. This was the first time that I actually got emotional. And it was. I think the biggest part for me was the kids. Like, you would do that to your own kids just so you can do your own thing. And, you know, it just. I. It broke my heart.

[Hannah]

Like, how can you know that you're going to hurt those people so badly and still keep doing it?

[Mackenzie]

And can we talk? Do you guys remember the episode where we talked about betrayal trauma?

[Hannah]

For people who have been listening for a long time, we talked about betrayal trauma in the Confessions of a Dogfish episode. So you should go back and listen if you haven't. Because we had therapists on.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, the sex addict.

[Hannah]

Yeah, the sex addict. And this episode was so interesting because he was also a therapist using that against her. Like, if she had known about that. You can't break your intuition, you know, your femtuition or your betrayal trauma. If she had known about it, maybe.

[Mackenzie]

She would have used that to trust herself more. But then she felt she couldn't trust herself.

[Hannah]

Like, she was already doubting herself, and he knew that and then used that against her. It just was, like, kind of an interesting tie in to what we had talked about before. That broke My heart. And also, it made me so glad he's not practicing anymore.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And first of all, like, to use your knowledge and experience as a. As a professional in the way that he did. Like, you're. You're a. You're a professional therapist or whatever.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Mackenzie]

And you're using all of this knowledge that you have against your wife. Like, this is worse than the guy who used the Hallmark movies to, like.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

You know what I mean? Like, he was using Hallmark movies to learn how to, like, emotionally.

[Hannah]

He was trying to be sweet. He was trying to be a little.

[Mackenzie]

This guy was using it, too. He was using his. His knowledge as a. As a. As a professional, and he used that against the kids, too, and he used it against all these women. And I love that. She said she trusts herself more now because of how badly, like, she was destroyed and she felt like her. And she's like, nope, I trust myself more now than ever because she. She knows that she can.

[Hannah]

It made my heart warm when she said that she hasn't gotten to tell her story very much because she's respectful of her children's father, which is I absolutely support a hundred percent. But the dating detectives gave her a little anonymous platform to let it all out, and I am happy to do that.

[Mackenzie]

Boom.

[Hannah]

If you have a story. Hey, what a segue. If you have a story that you need to let out, you can email [e-mail] and you can follow us on.

[Mackenzie]

The Insta or our socials at Datingating Detectives podcast. Y'all just go to the Google machine. It'll take you in the right direction, I promise you.

[Hannah]

Yeah, just Google it.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And also sign up for the Patreon. We appreciate you guys so much and all of your support, and we're really excited to do a little extra work for you. So thank you guys so much. And I can't wait for the merch.

[Kelly]

I'm so excited.

[Hannah]

Finally, when you sign up for the Patreon, make sure you go comment on, like, the. The board so we can, like, welcome you and be like, oh, my God. Hi. You're here. I don't know.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, we're gonna have, like, a list of favorites. We're gonna be like, oh, this one is my favorite. They were the first one to comment. We should have, like, a wall of fame. Like, the first on, like, you save your first dollar bill in your business. Right? Like, this would be the first person who commented on our Patreon. That would be so fun.

[Hannah]

The first picture in the T shirts I love it.

[Kelly]

I love it.

[Hannah]

We're picking favorites. Sorry. Sorry about it.

[Mackenzie]

And, oh, don't forget. So since the Patreon dropped today, so did our first Patreonic episode. Is that a word? Patreonic? We just say Patreon. It's a new. I just come up with all these words all willy nilly. So join the Patreon. We have the very first episode for the Patreon is out and we're gonna exclusive tease you with a little clippy clip. And if you wanna listen to it, you have to go sign up.

[Hannah]

This is a teaser of the bonus episode, but the rest is on Patreon bound.

[Mackenzie]

Chicka. Wow. Wow. Hannah, are you so excited for our very first Patreon episode?

[Hannah]

I am so excited. All right, so basically, y'all are amazing and you send us so many stories and we get to a lot of them, but there's just too many for us to do full episod everything. But that doesn't mean they're not wild dogfish stories or just wild stories in general. So that's what this episode is going to be. We're just going to go through them.

[Mackenzie]

We have some stories to tell you that like just from emails. We just want to read the emails to you guys from. From listeners.

[Hannah]

Story time email number one. All right, I'll give you this. The subject that they sent. Dating married men unknowingly.

[Kelly]

Uh oh, okay, Go, go, go.

[Mackenzie]

And that's all you get for now. But it was a super fun episode. We read some crazy emails, we give some advice. It's just super fun. So if you want the full episode, sign up for the Patreon right now. Thank you guys so much for all of your support. We love you tons and millions and.

[Hannah]

We can't wait to hear what you thought of this episode.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, tell us what you thought of the episode and as always, trust your femtuition.

[Hannah]

Trust it.

[Mackenzie]

Love you.

[Kelly]

Bye.

[Hannah]

Bye.