Resort Romance: Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Resort Romance: Part 2" – The Dating Detectives

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dating Detectives
• Host/Author: Dear Media
• Episode: Resort Romance: Part 2
• Release Date: March 24, 2025

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Introduction

In the second part of "Resort Romance," hosts Mackenzie Fultz, a professional Private Investigator, and comedian Hanna Anderson delve deeper into the harrowing experience of Laura, a courageous woman who fell victim to a sophisticated dating scam orchestrated by Ramon. This episode not only continues Laura's emotional journey but also explores the broader implications of such scams in the modern dating landscape.

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Laura's Descent into the Scam

Timestamp: [04:07] – [12:01]

Laura recounts how her vacation took a dark turn after discovering that Ramon had secretly married someone else on the day of her reunion visit. Initially smitten by Ramon's charm and persistent efforts to stay connected, Laura found herself entangled in a long-distance relationship that soon revealed red flags.

• Key Events:

  • Discovery of Ramon's Wedding: Laura notices a Facebook post congratulating Ramon on his wedding, raising suspicions ([05:02]).
  • Confrontation Attempts: She confronts Ramon via messages, only to be met with gaslighting and fabricated excuses, including false claims about his family ([10:22]).
  • Emotional Turmoil: Overwhelmed by depression and feeling deceived, Laura attempts to process the betrayal while navigating her solo vacation ([11:05]).

• Notable Quote:

  • Laura: "I couldn't believe this is real. I was so hurt and confused" ([05:41]).

---

Escalation of Harassment and Manipulation

Timestamp: [12:01] – [33:36]

As Laura attempts to hold Ramon accountable for the money he owed her, Ramon's manipulative tactics escalate. He begins to create fake accounts and orchestrate harassment campaigns, making Laura's life a nightmare.

• Key Events:

  • Financial Exploitation: Ramon coerces Laura into sending money for personal items, promising repayment that never materializes ([02:54]).
  • Fake Family Members: Ramon impersonates family members to deceive Laura further, leading to increased distrust and emotional strain ([07:45]).
  • Revenge Tactics: Upon failing to obtain the owed money, Ramon initiates a campaign of false accusations, threatening to expose Laura's personal information and intimate photos ([55:05]).

• Notable Quote:

  • Mackenzie: "He makes it your fault every time anything happens" ([14:27]).

---

Laura's Fight for Justice and Recovery

Timestamp: [33:36] – [84:42]

Determined not to be a victim, Laura takes proactive steps to reclaim her life. She collaborates with Melissa, another victim of Ramon, creating a trauma bond that strengthens their resolve to stop him. Together, they navigate legal challenges, cyber harassment, and personal losses.

• Key Events:

  • Legal Actions: Laura sends demand letters to Ramon's family members to legally pressure him into repayment ([42:52]).
  • Cyber Harassment: Ramon continues to harass Laura and Melissa through multiple fake accounts, leading to threats and the release of intimate photos online ([63:46]).
  • Support Systems: Laura finds solace and strength in her relationship with Melissa, who stands firm against Ramon's manipulations ([80:43]).
  • Personal Transformation: Overcoming immense trauma, Laura starts her own podcast, "Sex, Lies and Tacos," as part of her healing journey, empowering herself and others by sharing her story ([75:23]).

• Notable Quotes:

  • Laura: "Your voice is your weapon" ([92:44]).
  • Hannah: "Nothing is okay for revenge porn. It’s a crime" ([83:27]).

---

Hosts' Insights and Discussions

Timestamp: [93:02] – End

After Laura concludes her story, Mackenzie and Hanna reflect on the profound impacts of such scams and harassment. They discuss the importance of setting boundaries, recognizing red flags, and the devastating effects of victim-blaming in cases of revenge porn and cyber harassment.

• Key Discussions:

  • Victim-Blaming: The hosts emphasize that victims should never be held responsible for the actions of perpetrators, highlighting the pervasive issue of blaming victims for their own exploitation ([84:52]).
  • Importance of Support Systems: Laura and Melissa's bond serves as a testament to the strength found in solidarity, encouraging listeners to seek and offer support to those in need ([80:19]).
  • Technological Challenges: The difficulty of removing personal information and intimate content from the internet is underscored, with calls for better measures from tech companies to protect victims ([86:13]).

• Notable Quotes:

  • Hanna: "If somebody comes into your life, what, how is it gonna' break you?" ([89:33]).
  • Mackenzie: "You deserve to be there" ([39:02]).

---

Concluding Thoughts and Call to Action

The episode wraps up with an inspiring message of resilience and the importance of using one's voice to overcome abuse and manipulation. Laura's transformation from a victim to a survivor who actively helps others serves as a powerful reminder of the human capacity for healing and empowerment.

• Key Takeaways:

  • Empowerment Through Storytelling: Sharing personal experiences, as Laura does with her podcast, can be a crucial step in the healing process and in helping others recognize and escape similar situations.
  • Vigilance in the Dating World: Listeners are encouraged to remain vigilant, trust their instincts, and establish clear boundaries to protect themselves from potential scammers.
  • Supporting Survivors: The hosts advocate for a compassionate and supportive approach towards victims, rejecting victim-blaming attitudes and promoting understanding and assistance.

• Final Notable Quote:

  • Laura: "That's why I decided to start recording a podcast in my healing journey" ([76:22]).

---

Conclusion

"Resort Romance: Part 2" is a compelling continuation of Laura's story, shedding light on the intricate and damaging tactics of online scammers in the dating world. Through honest dialogue and shared experiences, Mackenzie and Hanna provide valuable insights and support to listeners, underscoring the importance of awareness, resilience, and community in overcoming the challenges posed by deceptive relationships.

Transcript

[Mackenzie]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.

[Hannah]

Happy Dating Detectives Monday. But I don't know how happy you're going to be after hearing the rest of this episode from last week. Hannah, will you please recap last week?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, if I was, I know, I'm sad. I mean, no, it's just such a bummer of a story. If you have not heard, please go back and listen to last week's part one episode. Laura is our guest and she's been through it. She is so awesome though, and I love the way she was so gracious and brave to share this story. So part two is gonna get heavy. Part one involves Laura, an independent woman who had never been married, never had kids, loves to travel alone, has had a series of relationships, all of which she said weren't great. She has a history of being ghosted, a history of just anytime she ruffled feathers, people would leave her. And that was in the back of her head as she met Ramon. So she goes on vacation by herself, which she did every year and loved it, and meets a resort worker. He was like the head of entertainment, you know, he was like the emcee of the talent show. You know what I mean?

[Hannah]

And this is someone that despite going through all of that, still was so kind and she wanted, she was a people pleaser. Like, wanted to.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, for sure.

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah. Very nice.

[Mackenzie]

So he flirted with her and she was just trying to be nice, you know, you've all been there. It's hard to, it's hard to not be a people pleaser in this world. So they end up hooking up on the vacation and she surprises herself by actually being into him despite his like Pauly D hair. And then they start a long distance relationship, him back at this country. She goes back home to Canada, so they're in two different countries and he guilts her into giving him money for various things like new shoes, a new Apple watch. She obviously makes more than him. She knows that she's nine years older than him. She is promised to be paid back and they're making plans for the future they're making plans to see each other again. He even says he wants to have kids with her, which she thought was kind of out of the cards for her, which I think is important because, you know, she was like, maybe 20 years earlier, she wouldn't have been cool with that. But at this point, she was like, I didn't even think I was able to have kids. Like, I'm running out of time. She felt like. So.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And her. And he flirt bombed her bad. He flirt bombed. He flirt bombed her. He love bombed her.

[Mackenzie]

And he said everything right.

[Hannah]

He said everything right. And so for this person who was not interested, she was like, you know what? Maybe I am interested.

[Mackenzie]

This kind of feels nice. Yeah.

[Hannah]

This is kind of. Yeah. And so I feel like. Anyways, the rest of the story, you guys, is. Is. It just doesn't get any better from here.

[Mackenzie]

If you haven't listened to part one, I'm about to spoil the ending of part one. We left off where she flies down to see him again. He's being all shady about, like, no, don't come to this place. Go to this place. Don't come to this town. Switch where you're staying. Well, she sees on Facebook that it's because the town where she was originally going is where he was having his wedding. He literal wedding, literally at the altar.

[Hannah]

Like, how do you even. And can you imagine the heart? Oh, my God. So we're going to pick up from there and just the rest of the story, it's just. It's up and down.

[Mackenzie]

It's horrible.

[Hannah]

It's. It's out of control. And so we want to go ahead and let her tell the rest of the story. But before we do, go ahead, are.

[Mackenzie]

You going to say Patreon or trigger warnings? I just want to make sure we say that. Trigger warnings again, just real quick, y'all. Depression, self harm, suicidal thoughts, revenge, horn abuse. It's bad. It's not gonna be good.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it gets deep. So we like. We like to try and let you guys know what to expect, but they. These stories get really deep. And these are real. It's. These are real experiences and real stories. So thank you guys for, you know, being supportive when these guests are telling their stories. Also, we try to do everything we can to keep updates going on Patreon. And you get two bonus episodes a month when you join the Patreon. It's $5 a month. We'll put the link in the show notes. And yeah, let's let Laura tell the rest of her story, because I Know, everybody's like, okay, shut up. We just want to hear it. Because that's how I would be.

[Mackenzie]

All right.

[Laura]

For whatever reason, I decided to disbrace yourself, ladies. I decided to check his Facebook account. Oh, no, we're not friends on Facebook. We're just friends on Instagram. But I. I see that he is tagged in a post on Facebook congratulating him on his wedding. What? So. So my brain can't really compute. This is a picture. This. This little man with the hair in a groom outfit standing across this tall, beautiful woman in this white dress with the beach and the ocean and like those wedding arches.

[Mackenzie]

When. When was it from?

[Laura]

Then the tag is congratulations, and his name is there and it's blue. So when you. When you touch it, it takes you to that person's profile. But I don't go anywhere because I'm on his page and I touch the other names and I go to a different page. And have you ever experienced where, like, everything goes black and spinny around you? Your ears are ringing, there's like sparkles.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And your stomach falls into your butt and, like, everything is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Laura]

I'm like, what's. What is this? So I send a screenshot and I send him a message. I'm like, did you get married today?

[Mackenzie]

Hey, just wondering. Hi, babe. Sorry, don't wanna bother you. Did you get married today?

[Laura]

Oh, yeah, sorry. The date was today, the day that I arrived. What? And as one might guess, I didn't get a response for quite some time. So I get my shuttle and like, I don't really. I don't. I'm in a daze. I don't remember checking in and I don't remember any of that. But as I'm walking to my room, I text my brother, I text my close friends. I'm like, babe got married today. I'm like shooting at rapid fire questions like, what do you mean? And so I was just beyond, like, just. I couldn't function. So thankfully, I had some really well, one in particular. Incredible investigators back home who was like, let me see the picture. So she clicked on the bride's post or name. She clicked on the person who made the post, which was the bride's mom. She found out all this information and she's like, hey, here's what I can tell you. They got married. Oh, my God. In this today, in the city that you're in, at this resort. And she told me some stuff about the bride. The bride was also Canadian. And he's got a type.

[Hannah]

Is Canadian. A Type. Apparently that's the new title of this episode is Canadian a type.

[Laura]

Exactly. Exactly. So my friend gives me this info and I'm just stunned and stone cold sober. Like I'm not in a. Like I'm just stunned. Crying.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Vomiting, like just hyperventilating, all the things. But then I decide. So it's pitch black by the time like I'm in my room, I decide to Google the resort. It's one that I know of that he used to work at. Oh no, it's not where we met. So I Google the resort, I go into Google Maps, put it in, and it's like Your destination is 450 meters.

[Hannah]

Go visit his.

[Mackenzie]

I was going to say this is a wedding. I'm okay with someone crashing.

[Hannah]

We crash in this bitch. Make me a bicycle clown. We crash in this wedding.

[Laura]

So I decide I'm going to go for a walk.

[Mackenzie]

Good for you.

[Hannah]

400. Wait, I'm sorry, how long is 450 meters? I don't math in American mushrooms.

[Laura]

Very long. I don't math either.

[Mackenzie]

No, it's. You can walk it.

[Laura]

Let me just say it's directly behind me. It's directly behind. It's a massive resort. I'm at a smaller hotel. I'm not at an all inclusive because I was saving money. Right. I didn't care. It's just me.

[Mackenzie]

Just point of clarification. He knows exactly where you're staying.

[Laura]

He knows exactly where I'm staying. He knows exactly when I'm landing. He knows all of the things he.

[Hannah]

Just think you ain't gonna do.

[Laura]

Not. He doesn't know that he's tagged in a post.

[Hannah]

Idiot.

[Laura]

He thinks he's smarter than me. The reason he was not available to meet me for that amount of time is because he was getting married. I'm sure that's exactly why he was pissed that this is where I happened to pick and why he wanted me to go to the other place because he knew I was getting married. And he's panicking and then causing all these problems. But he's also probably thinking, well, I'm behind gates at this. All inclusive. She's not going to find out. But he's also still shitting his pants because what if she does so did I say earlier I don't believe in coincidences. I just don't. And I do believe in the universe and signs and stuff. And I feel like all of these things that I had been ignoring my gut, the pink to red flags, all the things, all of my things I was ignoring the universe or whoever had to step in and bitch slap me in across the face. Like, you gotta be here.

[Mackenzie]

This is a bitch slap from the universe.

[Hannah]

It sure is.

[Laura]

There's. There's no way that I can get over this. There's no way he can deny it. There's. Right. So I can't remember the exact sequence, but essentially I say, did you get married? He eventually responds to me, gaslights me. That's just like you to believe everything you'd see on the Internet. That's not me. I'm going to see my mom in the hospital. I'll send you a picture for proof. It's just like you to believe stuff that you'd see on the Internet.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Laura]

And then he sends me a picture of his nieces and a picture of grandpa slash dad alluding to the fact he's with them. And I said, I think you forgot Grandpa slash dad died. I'm dying. And so.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my goodness.

[Laura]

So as disoriented and out of body and devastated and everything that I was experiencing in that moment, I am so proud of myself to say that I had this incredible mix of, like, toxic rage texts to him and that I block him so he couldn't respond. And then I'd unblock him and send more. Can you imagine how frustrated you'd be on the other end? Panicking and you can't respond? So I basically was like, did I pay for the wedding or did I pay for the ring? Like, you owe me nine grand. You're a scammer. I said, I really hope I get to meet your wife. She looks lovely. I'm like, oh, look at that. I'm 450 meters in front of you. I hope I meet you on the beach. So I did go for a walk, but more just because I wanted to see how close 450 meters was. I wasn't gonna crash the wedding.

[Hannah]

Good for you. You're a better person than probably 99.9999% of us.

[Laura]

I do think most people would. I was more like, he's gonna gaslight me. He's gonna say I'm a crazy ex. He's gonna say he doesn't kill me. It's her whole entire family, so who knows what they're like.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

And also, I'm in a country that I don't. Well, I don't wanna get arrested anywhere, but I don't wanna get arrested there.

[Hannah]

No.

[Laura]

And, like, I'm by myself. I don't have backup. So instead I saw where it was. I then went back to my room, turned off my phone. Like, there was a lot of me. Nasty texting, of course, obviously. But then I shut off my phone and I spent the night in the fetal position. Just, what a horrible nightmare. And then I wake up the next morning, still like, I can't believe this is real. And I turn my phone on, and apple logo has barely even gone full apple. And my phone starts ringing. What? And I'm like, who the hell is this? It's this unknown number. Well, I'm not answering an unknown number at the best of times. Certainly not ever.

[Hannah]

I haven't answered the phone since 1992. No, we're doing exactly.

[Laura]

I don't know who you are. I don't want to talk. So I'm declining the call, and it keeps calling back and decline, decline, decline. It's getting really irritating. And then there is a moment of me thinking, oh, wait a minute. One of my best friends back home is a nurse, and her work phone, she sometimes calls me from, and it's a block number because she's a nurse and, you know, probably her answer the phone. It is not her. It is him. And he's like, please, please let me talk to you. I need to talk to you. And I was like, honestly, dude, I got nothing to say to you. It's too late. And he's like, no, please let me talk to you. And he wouldn't stop calling me. And you can't block an unknown number, which is unfortunate.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

So he kept calling me. Eventually I answered, and I was like, if you want to talk to me, you can walk the 450 meters and look me in the eye and talk to me. Yeah. He's like, well, actually, I can't really.

[Hannah]

Because my wife is in the next room.

[Laura]

Yeah, can we just do it when you're in the other place in four days? And I was like, abso fucking lutely not. No, we're going to deal with this right now. Your wife needs to know. And so I'm going to tell her. He's panicking. He's like, no, no, no, please, please, please don't. I. You ruined my night. I was so sick to my stomach. Blah, blah, blah. Right. Like, of course I ruined your night because you're terrified.

[Mackenzie]

He makes it your fault every time anything happens.

[Laura]

I did. At some point. If it wasn't the. Did you get married? Send the picture. I sent the picture at some point, and within maybe five minutes, that post was mysteriously private. Oh. Oh. I also let him know that when he said he was going to visit his mom in the hospital. I said, cut the crap. I know she's been there for the last few days. There was no car accident, and I know grandpa slash dad is not dead. Like, you're a liar. And then mom's profile is private, the wedding announcement has been taken down, and I'm just trying to imagine how is he orchestrating. Yeah, at the reception of his wedding. What does that look like?

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[Mackenzie]

He's stealing phones. Is he asking people or what? Making up weird excuses.

[Hannah]

I have a stalker.

[Laura]

I have a stalker.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that would probably so.

[Laura]

So he's like, I can't meet with you. I'm like, well, I don't know what to tell you. I'm certainly not seeing you in a few days. This. This is awful. Anyway, he's like, well, give me a little bit of time.

[Hannah]

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[Mackenzie]

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[Hannah]

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[Laura]

So I decided I'm going to go for a daylight walk so I can just see how close this resort is. And I'm like five minutes away from my hotel and he calls me back and he's like, I'm on my way, I'm coming to meet you. Morning after his wedding, he's coming to meet me. And I want to say it's about 9:00 in the morning. So I will say I've never been married, so I don't, I'm no expert here, but I will say that if I gotten married the night before, I'd probably want to wake up to my husband the next morning and I'd probably want to spend time with him. I'd probably want to have breakfast with him. So I'm not sure how he's going to come out and talk to me, but he did.

[Mackenzie]

He found a way.

[Hannah]

I wonder what.

[Laura]

He found a way. So I go back to my hotel and I'm sitting in the parking lot and I'm just vibrating. I just, I can't believe this is real. He approaches me and he's like, you know, walking with his head down. So he comes up to me and he's like looking at his feet, he's like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, sorry, that's the best you can do? Sorry. Oh, no biggie. Not a big deal. And I look at his hand and I'm like, well, thank you for being kind enough not to wear your wedding ring. So then he's like, well, let me explain. And then he starts to try and tell me that we, he and I broke up in July. I sent him a phone in July, so there's no way I sent him a phone if we had broken up. He then tells me that he's like, yeah, I wanted to break up with you so many times, but I was scared. I didn't know how to do it. I said, so I was supposed to just psychically know that we were done, right? Like I was hopeful, like, we did not break up. Dude. It wasn't rocky 100%.

[Mackenzie]

But you never said the words, we.

[Laura]

Never broke up, and you wouldn't even.

[Mackenzie]

Know about this freaking wedding if it wasn't for Facebook.

[Laura]

So I say, you're a scammer. And he's super offended at the word scammer.

[Mackenzie]

It's so offensive when you tell people who they are, isn't it?

[Laura]

I'm. I'm like, of all the things I said to you, you're offended by scammers, right? Like, yeah, because I'm not one. I'm like, well, what would you call.

[Mackenzie]

What are you.

[Laura]

You owe me nine grand. I said, I list all the things. I'm like, you still owe me the money. Like, now you need to pay me. And he's like, I just need to wait until I get my inheritance from my grandpa slash dad, and then I'll pay.

[Hannah]

I'm like, dude's not dead.

[Laura]

He's like, yes, he is. I say, grandma's not. Is that a ghost? He's like, yes, they are. Grandpa, dad. Anyway, I'm like, well, so who is she? How long has this been going on? Have we been in a throuple and I didn't know? And he's like, well, we've been best friends for 10 years, but when my grandpa slash dad died in November, we decided to start dating. And I said, so hold on a minute. You went from best friends to dating in November and married in January? Yeah, the first week of January.

[Hannah]

Not gonna work out. Not. Not with a planned venue and all that stuff. Maybe if you eloped, I would buy it, but still no.

[Mackenzie]

Plus, grandpa slash dad did not die. Like, it just simply didn't die.

[Laura]

He's not dead. No.

[Mackenzie]

So he's just fully denying the photo evidence.

[Laura]

All of it. So I call bullshit because you. That just never would happen in that amount of time. So I'm like, did I pay for the wedding or the ring? What was it? He's like, no, no, my mom paid for it. I'm like, she couldn't pay for a laptop, but she can pay for this wedding with this best friend that you just started dating? Like, nothing's making sense. You're a liar. Anyway, he's trying his best to convince me that that's all true. I said, your wife needs to know, and if you don't tell her, I'm gonna reach out to her. Please, please, please don't. Just give me time. I will explain. I said, I want to talk to your mom. He's like, yes. Why?

[Mackenzie]

Because I want to know why you were raised this way, sir.

[Laura]

Yeah, well, because I'm like, she supposedly knows about me. I want to talk to her because I want to hear the truth, because I think everything you've told me is a lie. He's like, well, okay, I'll ask her. I'll see. But I'll pay you the money as soon as I get the inheritance. He asks me at one point if he can have a hug from me. No. He's like, I've been so sick all night. I didn't enjoy my wedding. I was so sick. I'm like, yeah, because you were caught.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, he can pay for a hug. Wouldn't cost $9,000.

[Laura]

$9,000? Yeah. So the second time he asked me, I'm like, fine. So he starts to hug me, and then he can feel my body convulsing because I'm obviously crying. I'm vibrating. I'm just so hurt. And he has to break the embrace to go run and throw up in the bushes.

[Hannah]

Does he really throw up or was he pretending?

[Laura]

Well, I didn't. Look, he did leave, and I heard him. I didn't investigate, but I'm like, good, dude. Like the. No sympathy here. So anyway, we were together for about, I don't know, 15 to 30 minutes. The morning after his wedding, he takes off. I'm then like, okay, pick yourself up. Dust yourself off. You're on vacation. What are we going to do? So I just kind of sat in a zombie, like, state, and my friends are like, what are you going to do? Are you going to come home? I'm like, no, I could be sad here, or I can be sad at home. I'm here. And then I get this message from his phone number. That's his mom. His mom. I just found out everything he did. Yeah, text everything he did. And I'm so disappointed. And continued to pretend that it was his mom for a few days. She said, yes, I'll meet with you. And I said, great. What time are we meeting? She's like, oh, actually, we're leaving today, but I hear you're going to this other place in four days. I can drive there. I'll meet you. So I'm not completely in my right frame of mind, obviously, at this point, but I'm also. There's a lens of it being skeptical, but I'm like, I want to be texting with you directly. What's your phone number? She doesn't give it to me. Of course not. I then message her on Facebook and miraculously, she doesn't read the message until I send him a shitty message a couple days later.

[Hannah]

He got into her. Oh, Lord.

[Laura]

Yeah, I think it's odd your mom hasn't responded to me.

[Mackenzie]

I bet he didn't think you were going to go to location number two. He probably thought, yeah, that I would go home. Maybe you'd go home.

[Laura]

Yeah, no, I've already paid for this vacation. I might as well, you know. And also, I don't have a return flight from where I am now because I changed.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, you got to get there. Yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah. So I end up on my own adventures. Three days after the wedding is my birthday. So I go to the beach and I find myself driving a parasailing boat because these men on the beach were trying to get my attention. And I'm like, leave me alone. I hate men. Like, having it.

[Hannah]

Not right now, fellas. Not right now.

[Laura]

But we're different than those kind of men. I'm like, actually, you're not different. And then I tell the story, and the guy's like, you need some cheering up. Come work with me on this boat. And I was like, you know what? I didn't die last time. Whatever. So anyway, nothing physical happened, but I had my own adventure. It distracted me for a little bit. And then the next day I flew, and I was supposed to be meeting his mom. Obviously, mom never shows up, of course. But I'm texting with him and saying, if I don't hear from your mom by 4:00, I'm messaging your wife. So you know she's going to know everything if I don't hear from your mom. Had I not told him that, I could have messaged the wife and nobody would have been expecting a message. Mom obviously doesn't get in touch with me. Mom doesn't show up.

[Hannah]

And he got to the wife's Facebook.

[Laura]

So I send the wife a message, and I essentially said, hey, there's no easy way to say this. I've been dating this guy for the last year. I arrived to see him, and I found out via your mom's Facebook post that he got married. I'm sure you have a lot of questions. I do, too. Here's my phone number. And as I hit send on that message, I don't know if you've ever noticed that gray font that says, this person doesn't accept messages from people not their contacts. And I'm like, what am I gonna do? So obviously I knew her Instagram, too, because I'm not a quitter. I. I'm a quitter.

[Hannah]

I love It.

[Laura]

So I said, I copy the same message, send it there, but the. The same thing. She doesn't request.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Laura]

I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do? Like, well, her mom is the one that made the post. I'm gonna message her.

[Hannah]

Oh, no.

[Laura]

So I do. I essentially send the same thing. Just change the words. Like, I. Because you tagged him. I found out. Blah, blah, blah, blah. So I send the message to the mom, and whenever I do something uncomfortable, I send a message. I get scared, and I turn my phone off.

[Mackenzie]

I do that too.

[Laura]

Yeah. It's just so awkward. But at some point, you gotta turn your phone on. You gotta check your email or whatever. Right. So I don't know. Say an hour passes by, and I get a message from the wife. Her name's Melissa. I get a message from the wife on Facebook, and it's basically like, Ramon told me everything. We weren't together at the same time. I don't want to know anything.

[Mackenzie]

You've been together since he. Up until the wedding. I'm over.

[Laura]

I know over it. He. He told me you guys broke up. I don't want to know anything about you. You're an old, pathetic woman. Desperate. I want nothing to do with you. Leave me alone. And so I read that not in the clearest of state. Like, not. Not that I was intoxicated, but emotional. And so had I been in this state I'm currently in, I would have seen that the English was a bit broken. It didn't make a lot of sense. But I read it at face value, and so immediately it was super clear. I know about you. Oh. And sent me the. The itemized list of the. What I had sent him for how much money he owes me. Sent me the. My thing back. So to prove that she knows all about me. Like, the money has nothing to do with her. He'll pay me whatever. Leave me alone. I never want to hear from you again. Basically, go yourself.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Laura]

Wow. And in that moment, I'm like, women always stand by their men.

[Hannah]

Yep.

[Laura]

You know? So, like, why did I bother? I'm so glad I didn't crash the wedding. Right. So I end up blocking her. I block her mom. I'm like, they don't want to know anything about me. I'm just. I'm an old, pathetic woman. Go away. But I had put my phone number in the message so that the wife could contact me if needed. Anyway, so as I mentioned, I'm Canadian. She is Canadian. We live in different parts, like, opposite sides of Canada. But I Grew up in the province that her family lives in. So I get a phone call from an area code that I know would be. Because I've done my research, I know it's her mom. And I'm just like. Again, I'm not answering a phone call. Roaming charges, like, not doing it. And also, I've heard back from the wife.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, you think she's going to come curse you out and threaten you or whatever.

[Laura]

And I'm too fragile right now to do this, so I decline the call. Calls back. I decline it again. And then I send a text and I say, I'm so sorry to involve you. I heard back from Melissa. She told me she knows everything, doesn't want to know anything about me. I'm so sorry. I just thought it was the right thing to do. Sorry. And then I block mom because I don't want to be afraid of my phone anymore. Right? I just want to be. So then the rest of this vacation, I'm still licking my wounds, trying to process, but feeling really down on myself about how all I did was love this wrong guy. I did everything.

[Hannah]

You didn't do anything wrong.

[Laura]

You're right. Here I am again, getting thrown away by this man and then this vicious wife saying how horrible I am. Oh, the mom. At some point, his mom called me an old lady and pathetic and all this stuff.

[Mackenzie]

So I'm feeling like they know exactly what would cut your insecurities.

[Laura]

Yep, 100%. And so I'm feeling really, really, really low, like I don't know that I can do this anymore. So I have my time in that part. I take a taxi to the airport the day that I'm leaving. And as I'm getting out of the airport, I get a message from his mother on Facebook, basically saying to me that I need to go away. That the wife's family is so sick and tired of me that they're considering a restraining order because I've contacted them. That Melissa has been under so much stress that she was pregnant, but all the stress that I caused her. She's been in the hospital all week. And I'm an evil, pathetic old woman. Oh, my. Her son never wanted me. Why would I ever think that he wanted me? And that they've transferred the $9,000 because I had provided banking information. He's transferred the $9,000 to me, and it'll take 12 to 14 business days. No, it won't, because it's such a large amount of money. Right? Nine grand.

[Mackenzie]

So I don't believe that that's really? The mom. But even if true, the idea of telling the family this is an ex harassing. Never even liked her.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Is a go to excuse. It makes sense.

[Hannah]

My ex is crazy. She's stalking me.

[Laura]

Women are always crazy. But the other you, Hannah, you said it before. It's like he knew what would hurt me the most and use those words. So then the wife mysteriously being pregnant.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Laura]

How much does that cut? Right.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

And, like, also, he's only been back since December. It's been a month. Would she even know that she's pregnant at that point? No, not likely.

[Mackenzie]

Y'all know I love a love story. And sometimes you need it. After hearing these episodes, if you have a love story of your own, slay. Love that for you. Yeah. I want to hear them. We get.

[Hannah]

We get some of them on our Patreon, and it's great.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Just.

[Mackenzie]

We need to hear them. And if you want to help. If you want a little help writing yours. Paired is an app that you can use with your partner. So let me tell you what Paired is, because it's really, really cute, and it helps you foster your relationship and just strengthen it or also just start conversations. So basically, it's an app.

[Hannah]

I love help like this for couples.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

It's so sweet.

[Hannah]

Anyway, and sometimes you don't know where to start to get to know somebody, so.

[Mackenzie]

No, exactly. So Paired, like, literally feeds you questions that you and your partner answer separately, but then you see each other's answers. It's very cute. So you might talk about your achievements, you might talk about your struggles. You might talk about memories, how your relationship has been strengthened. Maybe it'll ask you a question like, what's your perfect Valentine's Day? And it'll pitch the question in, like, early January. So that way, if you two are both totally off base, you have the conversation rather than being disappointed come February 14th. I love that.

[Laura]

I hate that.

[Hannah]

I hate that.

[Mackenzie]

But it happens. Even in the best of couples. Financial conversations are so hard to bring up. And sometimes, like, there was one that said, are you happy with how you manage your finances? The past year, and both of us were like, I could have done better. Like, it's a nice way to talk about, hell, no, I'm poor.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

So, yes. Paired, an app for couples who want to strengthen their relationships. It's a safe space to have an open and honest discussion. And it also. It just makes time for you to connect. Daily or weekly, you're busy. You know, it's hard to have those conversations. And especially if you have kids. I don't have kids. I don't know how y'all do it. This is a way to do it. That makes it feel like a fun game. That can take like five minutes. Difficult topics. You can learn new things about each other. Find new ways to spice up your routine as a couple. Yeah, there's some spicy questions. I know you like them. And whether you're just a few dates in or have been together a long time, it's great. Find the time to connect with your partner and nourish your relationship. Start the year off right with the Paired app. It's easy and fun and it only takes five minutes a day. Head to paired.comdatingdetives to get a seven day free trial and 25% off if you sign up for a subscription. Just head to P-A-I-R-E-D.com datingdetectives to sign up today. Have fun. Raise your hand if you can quote Pride and Prejudice. And you go back to that book all the time. I feel like there's a lot of you. And even if not, you get it. You know, if you can't get enough of that, will they, won't they? Tension between Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth or any of your other spicy fictional romances that you just love. You can dive back into the classic story like that on Dipsea. They have an irresistibly sexy British group of British voice actors, which is my favorite type of actor. Plus you can experience Jane Austen's most brooding bachelor like never before in a very spicy immersive audio. Dipsy is just constantly pumping out new good stuff. We loved it here at the Dating Detectives. It's a female founded app for spicy audiobooks and more. Created by women for the female gaze, but it's got anything you're interested in. Sapphic fantasy. You want a Scottish sailor, you want a rugged cowboy, you want a God of the underworld. Say less. Okay. You'll find the character you love on Dipsy. You'll find the scenario you love. Over a thousand spicy audiobooks all crafted by a team of professional writers and top tier narrators that are not cringy, which is hard to do when you're doing spice. You know, I feel like a lot of times it's so easy to be pulled out of it. And when I'm on Dipsea, I really love it. And it's easy to explore. Search your favorite romance genres, search whatever gender combo you want, whatever it's there. And new chapters are also released every week. So you'll always find something New to enjoy. You will not get bored. And right now, listeners of the show can get an extended 30 day free trial. Just go to dipseastories.com TDD to start your free trial. That's D I P s e a stories.com TDD for 30 days of full access. For free visit dipsystories.com TDD.

[Laura]

So anyway, none of it added up, but again, I'm in this horrible state. Trauma 100%. I have my past emotional relationship baggage. I'm just, it's awful. So I don't really remember checking in for my flight, going through security, but what I do remember is making a quick left and going to the bar and drinking and thinking, I don't know if I, I don't know if I can say this on your podcast. But basically thinking, I don't know that I can do this anymore. And I started to write out my will. I'm like, I can't do this.

[Hannah]

No, you can say that. And that is a real feeling. It's a real thought. And so many of us have shared that feeling. And this right here is exactly why you cannot do this to people because it puts them in a mental state that they just feel like, what the am I supposed to like? It makes you feel worthless. It makes you feel like you don't deserve to be here. And so, no, it is very, very real.

[Mackenzie]

You deserve to be there.

[Hannah]

And I am so sorry that anybody put you in a position to feel that way.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Garbage.

[Laura]

Yeah. So the. But the trait, the logical train of thought was, but wait, I can't do that to my dad because my mom died. He's lost without her. And also, how are they going to get my body back? So I can't do this yet. So I go back, I'm so sorry, Trying to pick up the pieces, trying to figure life out. And I wait the 10 to 14 business days and would you believe it? There's no money in my account. So I decide to email him and I'm like, where's the money? Your mom said it was here. So I'm getting this run around. He's like, I don't know, I've lost my whole family because of you. My wife won't talk to me, oh, fuck that. My family won't talk to me, I've lost my child, all this stuff, right? And he said, I don't know if it was the first email, but at some point there was a few back and forth emails. He's like, and to top it all off, I was just Diagnosed with cancer. And I can't.

[Hannah]

Here we go.

[Laura]

I can't deal with all of this. I can't. I hate you. I want nothing to do with you. I never asked you for the money. You always forced it on me. And I just want you to go away, but I'll figure out where the money is. And so I wrote back and I'm like, honestly, I hate you too. I don't care about what's happening in your life, and I obviously don't believe that you have cancer because grandpa slash dad isn't dead, Grandma's not dead. Mom wasn't in a car. Like, you're just a liar. Like, don't talk to me. Just send me the tracking number for my money. Right? Anyway, so this goes back and forth a little bit, and of course, no money shows up. It's now like February 20th, and my dad, who lives in the province where the wife lived, so across the country from me, he tells me he's not feeling very good. And I. I said, oh, maybe you should go to the doctor. He's like, no, no, I'm. I'm okay. And I said, I don't think you're stringing to how many times this last little while you've been telling me who haven't been feeling very good. I think you should see your doctor. It's like, okay, that's a good idea. I said, it's a holiday Monday, but I'll call and get you an appointment Tuesday. Great. He tells me on a Saturday. The next day he texts me and he's like, hey, can you get your friend who lives like 10 minutes from where my parents lived, who's a nurse, the one I thought was calling me, can you get her to come and take me to the hospital? I'm not feeling very good. Okay, so, long story short, my dad ends up being diagnosed with cancer for real. An aggressive terminal cancer on February 20th.

[Hannah]

I'm so sorry.

[Laura]

Loser has told me two weeks earlier that he's got cancer. And so I already hate this guy. I'm already fragile, so in his back and forth, lies, I'm like, this is all bullshit. I don't. I know you don't have cancer. My dad just got diagnosed with terminal cancer. You're a horrible person who lies about that stuff. Give me my money. So then I decide, enough's enough. I. I have this friend who's in my ear saying, you need to threaten him with legal action if he doesn't pay by March 1. He needs to pay. And of course he's not in the country. So tell him that you are going to serve a demand for payment letter to his wife and to his mother in law at their employers. Because I was able, I'm a Googler, I was able to find out where they work. So I do that. And of course he's panicking. He's like, don't involve them. I'll get the money. I just started working on a cruise ship again. But blah, blah, blah, like, don't get lawyers involved. This has nothing to do with them. It's between you and me. I'm like, well, this is your notice. I'm giving you. I don't know what it was four days. Get it sorted out.

[Hannah]

By the way, can I just interject and say, when you loan somebody money and they don't use it for the intended use, like they tell you they used it for one thing, but they use it for something else, that is a crime, that is a criminal offense. Just FYI, if you, if y'all didn't know that that's a criminal offense, not just civil. That is a crime.

[Mackenzie]

Is it good? I mean, I assume probably in Canada too, but like the international element does. It's lucky that he had a type that you were able to serve people in Canada. But I, I don't know how you would even begin to deal with that. If somebody's in another country, it is.

[Laura]

A whole lot more complicated. It would be much, well, obvious. The easiest solution is we're both from the same country, right? Super easy. It would be easy between Canada and the U.S. but when you go into these other countries, it is a lot more difficult. But anyway, so I'm threatening this. He's panicking, of course. He sends me these stupid documents of like all this information as proof that it's been sent. But, like all the information is redacted except for one tiny little number. It's not the right amount of money. It's all just made up, right? So then the day comes that he misses the deadline. I said, well, I'm meeting with my lawyer, whatever. And then I get this email from his wife, basically saying he's told me what's going on again.

[Hannah]

He told you what's going on or.

[Laura]

Yeah, this has nothing to do with me. If you send anything to my mom or I at work, I'm gonna. I think it was like a restraining order or I'm gonna get the police involved because this is crazy. Terrified of you, right? I'm terrified of you. That you now know where we were.

[Hannah]

Oh, Jesus.

[Laura]

Because you're a psycho. And I'm like, this stuff is like, well, they should lock their profiles down then. Like it's not that hard to Google also.

[Mackenzie]

So at this point you're still under the impression that you are communicating with his wife?

[Laura]

Yes.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Laura]

But you know, I'm obviously, I'm screenshotting and sharing with my friends and they're like, absolutely. Like there's no way this is her. Like her English is far too broken, but it's still feeling very real. So I tell him I've met with my lawyer and we are no longer communicating. It's a legal matter. So I say to my friend, I really want to send a message to the mother in law with all the information and pictures of the receipts and everything to just prove that this is real. I'm not trying to break them up. But this is why a letter is going to go to your employer or to your address anyway. And my friend's trying to get me to hold off. So I hold off. And then for almost the whole month of March I'm holding off. But I really want to send this letter. Either an email or male. My friend's telling me to hold off. For whatever reason, my dad gets progressively work worse. So the last week of March, I'm at my dad's house, I'm taking care of him. He's really not well. Then I end up having to get him admitted to the hospital. And all of this is just awful. It's just me and my dad. And while I'm very present and aware of what's happening with my dad, my last parent, when I'm going to bed at night, all I'm thinking about is this. I have so much rage and I can't properly focus on my dad because I'm worked up about this. So I decide one day I need to mail. I decided to mail the letter because an email could be deleted, right? Yes. I send this package of information to the mother in law, to her work, and I address it as confidential. I don't put any return address, I don't say phone me, I just send a letter. I give a stack of receipts and proof email correspondence where he says he has cancer and all these things. And the only thing that I don't hide is I don't hide my email address because I didn't want to make it look like I was hiding anything, right? So I send the letter off. I put a tracking thing on it so I know when it's going to arrive. And 12 hours, maybe 18 hours later, my dad died. And so it was like I needed to. I needed to close that chapter so that I could deal with my dad dying.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Laura]

Horrible. Obviously a horrible thing. Every month I was hit with, like, a real shitstorm in 20. So this is 2023 now.

[Mackenzie]

I hope you cut yourself a little slack for where you were emotionally in that. In that time period leading up to this and otherwise, like, coming out of a breakup, your mom's passing, all of it.

[Laura]

That's right. Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

It's so easy to just, I don't know, go back and be like, I'm an idiot and you're not. Like, you make mistakes, but you don't deserve this.

[Laura]

This. No, it was crazy. So before I knew my dad was sick, when I was not sure I could carry on, I made the decision I'd shared with my brother that I'm going to book a redo trip for April. I'm gonna do that bucket list trip. So I had booked a trip. Then my dad gets sick, and so my brother and I have a conversation and we're like, if my dad gets progressively worse or if he dies, I'm still gonna take the trip. Like, this is what my parents would want. Like, my dad knew that he had married somebody else and, like, he was heartbroken for me. So the week after my dad dies, I get on a plane and I go to my bucket list trip. Because you can't plan a funeral that fast. Anyway, so the day that I arrive on my redo trip, my grief, my, all of it, a letter arrives at the place where I sent to the mother in law. Tell me she was like, I gotta avoid my phone. I don't want to know.

[Hannah]

Oh, you want to avoid it? Okay, yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah, all of it. I just like, I can't. I can't. I'm too damaged right now. I can't deal with it.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

So I go out and I have a fabulous first day. I'm like, I'm in turquoise water. It's incredible. And I get back to my room to charge my phone and without thinking, because I had my phone, but all this, everything was silent. Without thinking, I checked my email, and there was one from the wife. And like, talk about your stomach sinking out of your ass. And I'm like, I don't know that I can do it. But it base, it was short. It basically said, I received your package in the mail. I would like to get more information from you.

[Mackenzie]

How was the grammar?

[Laura]

It seemed normal. And I did write back and I said something to the effect of well, one, I'm not in the country right now. I don't know that I believe it's you, but I would be open to a phone call if you can give me a few minutes. Here's my phone number. Let's talk on WhatsApp. She did. It was her. The first words out of her mouth were, I believe you were both victims. And I got a lot of questions. And so basically I just talked, she listened. She interjected when she had questions. She asked if I had, like, you know, texts and stuff. And I said, well, sadly, I would get mad and delete stuff, so I don't have that. But. But I knew too much. I could tell her the exact moment for when her wedding went from this joyfully blissful event to him all of a sudden being sick and wanting to go hide in the room, wanting to leave the resort as quickly as possible. She asked the dates for when I met him, and she went back in her text messages and she was like, oh, yeah, he wasn't available to talk to me during these times. We just had so much that we could cross reference that she just knew it was true. She had felt like something was off. And we think it's about the same day that I sent the letter that she was basically like, universe, if there's a. Send me a sign if he's been cheating on me. Like, I need to know.

[Hannah]

Wait, really?

[Laura]

Yeah. So I found out that they had been together for three years, that not two months had they been friends since childhood. That he proposed to her on Cinco de Mayo. Yeah, that the phone that she was talking to me on, he had given to her. He took. It was iPhone pro Max.

[Hannah]

He gave it to her.

[Mackenzie]

You were buying her gifts that he.

[Laura]

Told her he had wanted on the cruise and wanted to be this superstar boyfriend, so gave it to her and he bought himself a new one. She was nine years younger than him, so I am 18 years older than her. And so how repulsive would that be for her? I could be her mother.

[Hannah]

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[Laura]

So we both learned a lot. And she's like, that's it. I'm done. He's gone to work on a cruise. We're done. And I was like, well, hang on a minute here. Yeah, I mean, I'm nobody to you, but I am old enough to be your mom. Like, you. You're gonna have to divorce this guy. Like, you have to play your cards right. And she's like, well, actually, there was a paperwork issue when we got married, because he had married an American previously. We both knew about her, but they had gotten divorced. He wasn't legally divorced in his country. He was legally divorced in the US So they couldn't have their wedding. So she dodged a major bullet. Wow.

[Mackenzie]

So they were not even married, thank God.

[Laura]

No. So they knew going into it that there was a paperwork issue, but everything had been planned. So she's like, we'll just deal with that after. We're just having the wedding. All my family's coming. Like, we're doing it. It's not a big deal. We'll figure it out. So she. She dodged a huge bullet there. When she received the package, she obviously confronted him. He denied. He said he didn't know me. I was crazy. The documents were photoshopped. I lied about everything. After she spoke to me on the phone for two hours, she gave him another opportunity. He denied everything, said I made it all up. She blocked him. And honestly, I had no intention of ever speaking to her again. I didn't want to be friends at all. I just wanted to deliver the message. I didn't care if they stayed together, but she should be running a masterclass for how to do a cutoff anyway. So if you thought that was bad, here we go. Here's where we get to the bad.

[Mackenzie]

Do you need to, like, take a lap?

[Laura]

Yeah. Do you need to do a stretch? I might. Okay, so we hang up the call. I have no intention of ever speaking to her again. But I say, if you need anything from me, you've got my number.

[Hannah]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[Laura]

So the next day, I'm feeling better. I go about my day I'm checking my email because I'm no longer scared, and I see an email from a name I don't know, but I figure it's spam, so I just delete it. I don't open it. Then later in the day, I see the same name, again. So I start opening them, and it's these messages threatening me, saying, if you don't tell Melissa that you made everything up, I know everything about you, and I'm going to make your life miserable. There was a screenshot of my LinkedIn account. We know all about you. We know where you work. We know all about your dad and your brother, and we're going to ruin your life.

[Mackenzie]

So we like him and Melissa, you say? Or him.

[Laura]

No, we like the person. So it wasn't. It wasn't him writing me. It was this name. Okay. Which later he started creating all these fake accounts to threaten me. But basically he made it look like somebody was reaching out on his behalf to tell me, like, undo what you just did, because none of it's real.

[Mackenzie]

So that would scare the crap out of me.

[Laura]

There were three messages, right? And so I was like, I don't really want to message Melissa because she's going through a lot and she's processing. I had at least 90 days to process this. I've just hit her with a steamroller. But I did. I texted her. I'm like, I just got these emails, and I think he's behind it. And she's like, oh, my God. I got a message from the same account because she's blocked him on everything. He's trying to call. He's trying to get a hold of her. He's doing everything like, please, please, it's all made up. I love you so much. Let me explain. Doing all the things. He's convinced if he can get her to talk to him, he can Gaslight manipulate and convince her that it's all wrong. So basically, this continues on for a while. Well, for the duration of my trip, she and I are in communication, which.

[Mackenzie]

I'm so glad that y'all were able to do that.

[Laura]

Yes. So I get back from my trip and I land in the province that she lives in, because that's where my parents lived and that's where the funeral was. I land. She knows that I'm here, and she's like, my whole family just got this WhatsApp message claiming to be you. Phone number claiming to be you. And it was a profile picture of me on the trip that I had just been on. So he got it from my. My Instagram profile picture created this whole thing. Basically created a message pretending to be me saying, I made everything up. I'm so sorry. I'm just a miserable person. My dad just died, so I wasn't thinking clearly. Thankfully, she believed the family knew it wasn't me. Then the week of my dad's funeral, I'm going through all the emotions, but I'm in constant communication with Melissa because he's doing everything possible to try and get her to talk to him. We're both getting these nonstop calls from these unknown numbers, and it's just him incessantly calling us both. But I answered one time by accident because I thought it was connected to the funeral stuff, and it was just breathing, like, I don't know what it was he wanted.

[Mackenzie]

He was like, I didn't think they would answer.

[Hannah]

Creep. I can't exactly.

[Mackenzie]

I didn't know what to say.

[Laura]

So this is all two weeks after my dad has died. My brother and I have just packed up my childhood home because we're across the country. We're selling it. It's very emotional. My brother and I get on a plane to fly back to. We both lived in the same city at the time. For the last hour of my flight, I decided to get WI fi because I'm just curious what's going on. As soon as I turn my WI FI on, I'm getting FaceTime calls from all these random email addresses, and I. I decline them all. I'm like, what the do you want? Like, one. I'm on an airplane. I don't want to ever speak to you again. My dad just died. What do you want? He's like, I have to talk to you. I'm like, well, if you want to talk to me, then send me a message or create a video. That's not how I want to do it. Let me know when you land. I want to FaceTime. Like, I don't want to. So when I land, I tell Melissa what's been going on. And I said, you know, I think I should have a FaceTime with him, and I think that you should be watching from a different phone. He doesn't know, but I would like you to hear him admit it in case there's any kind of question.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Laura]

You. She's like, even if he sort of.

[Mackenzie]

Like, here's how he talks to you, he'll probably say something. That's a B.S.

[Laura]

Exactly. So she. She was hesitant at first, but she agreed to it. So it was May 1st. I agree that we're gonna have a FaceTime. So I have her set up on one phone out of shot, and she's recording, and I'm audio recording. And he gets on the call, and the gist of the call is basically like, yeah, yeah, I know that I. I hurt you, but I need you to help me to get her back. All I care about is her, and I need you to tell her you made this all up. If you do that, I'll pay you the money I owe you. I'm like, she's not stupid. She's not going to believe me. And why would I do that? I said, can you admit that we were in a relationship? He kind of skirts around that. I said, can you admit that you owe me all this money? And he's like, yes. So I get him to admit to stuff. And then he said, I know you. You can. You're probably recording this. You can probably use all of this against me. And I don't deny that I'm recording it. He's like, but you're the only chance I have. I'm so sick without her. I'm on medication. I'm so depressed. I'm like, you want to talk about medication? Like, go fuck yourself. Don't talk to me like, there. There's no sympathy for you. So anyway, I knew that she had just. Melissa had just changed her phone number, like, the day before or something.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, sorry. He didn't have it.

[Laura]

So he didn't have it.

[Mackenzie]

Desperate, desperate, desperate.

[Laura]

Yeah. He didn't know that she had changed it. But basically I made him believe that I. Okay, fine, you owe me money. I made him believe that I was sending her a text, being like, I made this all up. He loves you. Contact him. But when I sent it, I sent him a screenshot. I'm like, it turned green. It didn't deliver. So maybe she blocked me, or maybe she changed her phone number. And he was so desperate, he's giving me her mother's phone number, her sister's number. Tell them. Tell them. I'm like, no, dude, no chance. So that's May 1st. There's a bit of, like, panic messaging back and forth, but, like, not back and forth towards me, but I blocked him. I'm done. Like, give me my money and leave me alone. I just want to grieve. Go away. I think it was about 10 days later, call it mid May. I get a text message, but I also get an email, and it is the longest text I've ever seen in my life. It says, mom. And his mom is telling me that her son has just killed himself. And she is just so angry with me. It's my fault. I'm a horrible, old desperate woman. Did I really think her son would ever want anything to do with me? The least I can do is contact Melissa and let her know that I made the whole thing up. And if I don't do that, I have access to all of his devices and I have all your intimate photos and videos. So I will release them if you don't do this.

[Mackenzie]

But that's just a messed up thing to use. So awful because I don't believe it. Because grandpa slash dad, that's about as dead as I expect this man to be right now.

[Laura]

And the guy had cancer and stuff, right? It was a whole big thing. So anyway, obviously I reach out to Melissa and I show her this. Melissa phones me immediately from her new phone number. We have a whole conversation. I happen to be going to dinner as I'm getting this with my brother and a family member that was visiting. I'm obviously distracted. My family is saying, change your fucking number. This is ridiculous. I'm like, yeah, but it's so complicated to change your phone number. I've had it for so long. Change your email. And so I'm like all hesitant, but they're like, change it. So the next day I say, I'm going to change my number. I change my email. Let me just let you all know that to change your email and your phone number at the same time is a horrible, horrible thing because you need.

[Hannah]

One to access the other.

[Mackenzie]

That's hell. Hell is having to just two factor authorization, your own stuff.

[Laura]

That's the most cruel part of this whole story. Anyway, so I changed my phone number. I was like, a week later, I start getting messages from all these different accounts in the middle of the night threatening me. And then it was, I think it was May 19th. I got a message in the middle of the night and it was from his mother and this other account. And it was saying, your time is up. And it was screenshots of my nudes. And I had been tagged in all of my social media, the nudes I had been.

[Hannah]

So they posted them on social.

[Laura]

They posted them on my Instagram.

[Hannah]

That's a crime.

[Laura]

My face. Yes. On my Instagram, my Facebook porn sites, uploaded videos to Twitter. Twitter is the worst because the most graphic things can get. Yeah, you can post it on there.

[Mackenzie]

Anything up there.

[Laura]

But then to add salt, my moon, whatever that saying is, I worked for a very, very large, very corporate buttoned up employer and they tagged my employer's social media with all of my intimate photos and videos and then emailed them to work. And so, oh, my God, I don't.

[Mackenzie]

Even know what to say.

[Laura]

Here I am, both my parents are dead. My dad's like, it's not even, what's a month now?

[Mackenzie]

That's nothing.

[Laura]

I'm 40 something. So I call corporate security because I was connected very closely to them. And my buddy from corporate security gets me connected to the guy that he deals with that would deal with this. He's like, he's going to call you. Believe it or not, this stuff happens all of the time. I call my boss and like, I can't do this. I'm like, I had been sort of suggesting.

[Mackenzie]

Sorry, no, take your time.

[Laura]

This is like, not nor to my employer. And I might need to take a mental health break. This is before this because it was all a lot, but I had this stupid story in my head that both your parents dying wasn't a good enough reason to take in the absence from work. It's stupid. I would never say that to anybody. But that's the story I had. And I thought people were going to judge me and think that I was using it as an excuse. However, when your vagina gets sent to work, that seems like a good enough reason. So I said to my boss, I'm like, I can't do this. I need to take time. So mental health kicks in, a leave of absence starts. Corporate security calls me and they're like, it's okay, you're right, this happened. But the good news is it all goes into this central vacuum. When somebody mentions our company or they take things, it goes into a vacuum and it has to get approved. So, yes, it happened. I've seen them. They didn't go anywhere. The real neat thing about this corporate security guy is we sat on the same floor, shared a lunchroom. So, like, he's a professional, but still a peer, has seen my stuff. But I told him the whole story. He's like, give me all the accounts that have been bothering you. We'll block it. We'll make sure it can't get to anybody in the company. So that part's handled. But I'm losing my mind. I'm in the fetal position. I'm thinking, I'm gonna die. Like, I can't handle this. Literally contemplating ending it all because now my dad's gone. You know, people in my life are like, no idea how to support me. They don't know what to say. Some people let off with like, well, why would you send nudes? Or some people would say, well, can you send them to me so I can keep an eye open for them?

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Laura]

So obviously I go to the police, I say, what's happening? There were some threats in these messages. So I'm getting messages from all kinds of different accounts. I have changed my email address, but, like, I'm getting them on my Instagram. The accounts just kept coming. So one of them made a threat that they were going to send something to my house and to my employer. And so the police stepped in and they said, it's complicated because he's not in the country. But yes, like you were saying, everything is illegal and we are going to get him to stop. So I had my police officer send a letter to the accounts that were harassing me, but also to my ex on official police letterhead to say, what you're doing is a crime, basically, stop. I at one point in my career worked for the police, but as a civilian. And so he had looked at my LinkedIn. He knew I used to work for that police force. So when that email was sent, the person that was harassing me wrote back and said, do you think this impacts us? The person that they're referencing is dead. And we know that you used to work there. So you probably made this up like that. You think this is going to stop us? You're crazy. So what they ended up doing was then reposting everything, but using my entire legal name. And the police, while sympathetic, there's not much they could do because they're not going to go to that country. And, like, there's bigger crimes, right? So then he started creating constant TikTok accounts using my name. And he would tag me that I was a stalker, a psycho, that I like to ruin marriages. Like, all these things connected to my name. Then at some point. So this is now June. I'm terrified to leave the house because they're suggesting they're going to mail something to me. I didn't know if he knew my address or not. All the things that I had sent him, he probably did. I was getting stuff constantly. At some point, I went into hiding because I started getting death threats. He was creating count accounts pretending to be the cartel and that the cartel was coming after me. And he went into graphic detail of how he was going to kill me, basically. So that's all happening. Melissa and I are in constant communication. What's happening on the other side is he is still desperately trying to get a hold of her, her family Anybody she can. Her co workers, her peers, her friends, desperately trying to get them to convince her to talk to him. Some of the accounts and some new accounts were harassing her. He created accounts using my name to harass her. He then would tell her family that he and his family was being harassed by me. So I believe he was creating fake messages to himself and to his family pretending to be me. He was getting death threats. He was. Everything that was happening to me, he was, was happening. But keep in mind, Mama said that he killed himself. So he's resurrected from the dead to message Melissa.

[Hannah]

He is risen.

[Laura]

He has risen from underground. Praise Ramon. Anyway, also these tick tocks.

[Mackenzie]

So did you show Melissa these tick tocks he's making saying that you're a stalker?

[Laura]

Oh, she's very, very. She knows.

[Hannah]

She knows he's a liar too.

[Laura]

Super spoiler alert. She and I became so trauma bonded besties. Thank God if I had to experience any of this. I'm so grateful that it was her because just think, you know, like I said at one point, women always stand by their men. She could have very easily not believed me. She could have believed all of the things.

[Hannah]

And for her being much younger than you, also like that much younger that she was a baby. And so for her to believe you, she lacked the naivete that you would expect someone of her age to have. And good on her.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, she very, you know, for as big as the age difference is, we really get along. She's very mature and like she's great.

[Mackenzie]

And she's lucky to have you. As lucky as she said to me.

[Laura]

Several times, like she's thanked me, I've saved her life. She's like, can you imagine if I gotten pregnant or if I was still like any of the scenarios.

[Hannah]

Either one of you gotten pregnant.

[Laura]

Exactly. So anyway, this goes on for months and months. So he's love bombing her, harassing her family. She's standing strong. He's stalking and harassing and threatening me incessantly. He's claiming that he's getting these, these horrible things. And then all of a sudden Melissa starts getting death threats. Melissa's birthday is in July. And at the beginning of July there was this big ramp up that she was going to be murdered for her birthday and she's going to be kidnapped and creating all these fake things.

[Hannah]

What?

[Laura]

And basically that I was behind it all. So she's sending me this, she knows she's sending me this stuff. But this big lead up that I have hired people to murder her because I just love him so much. There was also at some point he made reference or they. The hackers and the stalkers, the cartel, whoever it was made reference to the phone call that Melissa and I had. The day that his mom sent me the message. The day that. That before I changed my phone number. But she had changed her phone number. We couldn't figure out if he had spyware on the phone that he gave her that wouldn't figure out how he could possibly know about our phone call. He. He said what day it was. He said how long it lasted. He knew everything. We eventually find out that he somehow contacted her phone provider pretending to be her. Changed the email on the account to one in my name.

[Mackenzie]

Yup.

[Laura]

So that the bill was sent to him. And he could track her with all of that.

[Mackenzie]

That's how people get. They go in and they fake IDs of your family. So you're on a family phone plan. Happened to one of my friends. It's not uncommon.

[Laura]

Insane.

[Mackenzie]

He.

[Laura]

For her birthday, when she was supposed to get murdered, he sent her a dozen roses and this letter saying that, you know, he loved her so much, he missed her, whatever this who thing and hope that she had the best birthday, even though they weren't together, killed her. Meanwhile, he's also threatening to murder her.

[Mackenzie]

Ridiculous.

[Laura]

But then, just before Christmas, so 2023, he released her intimate photos and videos.

[Mackenzie]

I don't know why I keep gasping, guys. I'm just like, so.

[Laura]

Because it's just such a stupid story. It's ridiculous. You can't make this up. But what he did was he released her intimate stuff in accounts in my name, making it look like I did it. And so at that point, we had to let him know that we are besties. Everybody knows it's him. Like, the police are involved. Go away. So this goes on for months. And I'm on mental health leave. I cannot function. I can't do anything. I'm literally in survival mode. And I ended up being on a mental health lead for about six months of, like, I'm doing a lot of deep healing, soul searching, trying to, like, survive. And at some point I decide, well, this is a story. You know, everybody I tell. Like, there's no short version of this story. Everybody's like, this needs to be on Netflix. This is wild. This is whatever. It's like, what are you going to do? Are you going to write a book? What are you going to do? And I don't have a technology back. I'm a. I'm an interior designer. That was my career up to this point. And I decide that I am in. As part of my healing journey, I'm going to tell my story. So I decide to start recording a podcast in my healing journey.

[Hannah]

We love that for you, podcast.

[Mackenzie]

What a great idea, Mackenzie. We should. We should do a podcast after this.

[Laura]

But I decide that I need to get my voice out there. And ultimately what has happened is I have started to share my story, and in doing so, I've begun to heal. And I've totally changed my career. I don't do the same work anymore. I'm in coaching now because I feel like I had to go through all of that shit storm in order to come out the other side and learn that I had two choices. Well, two and a half. I could have ended it. I could have just stayed down, or I could stand the up. So I've learned to make this into the most epic transformation ever. So that's what I did. So I end up releasing my podcast. Believe it or not. There's more details that I haven't shared here. So I tell this whole thing. There's 10 episodes.

[Hannah]

We're going to share it. And then I. I want everybody to hear it.

[Laura]

Thank you. And then I think, okay, it's done. Ten episodes, it's done. But then. So my last episode was my birthday. It was January 2024.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Laura]

But then he's harassing her incessantly from December. Her nudes are just constantly being uploaded. And, like, she's younger than me, and they were together for three years, so there is a lot of content. And he's just constantly up uploading more and more stuff. And so I decide that I am going to release more to the story. I'm going to give a bit more information. I then learn, as you guys know, with podcasts, there's analytics and you can start to figure out who's listening where. And he has learned of the podcast and he's listening. And so I make a choice to, at a certain point in the podcast, address him directly.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

I say, I know you're in here. The police know you're behind all of it. We've checked IP addresses. They're not coming from me. Everybody knows it's you. And what you've done is highly illegal. And I want you to know that I have been incredibly kind to you in keeping your identity a secret. Private.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Laura]

If you do not stop harassing myself, Melissa, her family, if you don't delete all of this, I have absolutely no issue re recording and putting it all out there. So it's amazing what happens when you stand up.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Laura]

I started getting messages from these accounts saying he had nothing to do with it. We're so sorry. We've deleted everything. Let us know if we missed anything.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, let us know if there's anything. It's like just making sure it's all good with you. Like, that's crazy.

[Laura]

So the happy ending of this is that I did stop him. The happy part of this story is that it is a incredible story of two women who came together and got through something horrible. It's a story of, like I said earlier, you can choose to let it destroy you or you can say, yeah, that happened, but it is never going to happen again.

[Hannah]

Nope.

[Laura]

So, yeah, that's, you know, that's the shortened version.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my gosh. The amount of people that are going to run to hear more details.

[Laura]

Yeah. So this coming May will be the two year anniversary of when my nudes were released. So, you know, it's pretty fresh. But at the same time, it's like I. That person that I was, she doesn't exist anymore. I'm actually surprised I got a little emotional in there because I am. I've done so much work on healing and I'm just not that person anymore. And I just want to show people that, that we can get through hard things. And the whole point was just so that they're not alone. And it does happen to people who have their lives together and grown ass women who know that they shouldn't do this. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Hannah]

Nothing to be ashamed of. And this is not. I'm. I'm so grateful that you shared this so bravely because I feel like so many people don't tell their story because they're like, oh, my God, I can't believe I let this happen to me. I can't believe I was stupid enough to let this happen. I can't believe I was this dumb. And that is just, just absolutely not the case. The more we talk about it, the less it can happen. Because when you shine light on something, it can't live in the dark. You know what I mean?

[Laura]

And I guarantee you. Actually, I know for a fact because after my podcast went out, there's other women.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Laura]

That had overlapping relationships with him at the same time.

[Mackenzie]

I was gonna say, I wonder who else.

[Laura]

There's times. Yeah, I'm sure there's hundreds. I for sure know of a few because we've communicated, but, you know, we all process things differently. But had I not stood up and stopped it. He'd still be doing it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Laura]

You know, and. And there was talk of Melissa sharing her story, but once we finally got him to stop, she's like, you know what? I don't need to. This was my healing journey. She didn't need to do part of his, and she doesn't need him getting back.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. She's like, it's in the rear view mirror.

[Laura]

It's done.

[Hannah]

Do you feel like when you did the podcast, do you feel like that was you basically saying, go ahead, do what you want, because I'm gonna keep talking loud. Like, he thought he could keep you down. And then he realized, oh, she's gonna use her voice like she has. She's never used it before. And then do you think that he got intimidated by that? Like, she really is.

[Laura]

I think so. And I think if people do choose to listen to the podcast, they're gonna notice a progression in me and my voice and my strength from start to finish. And at the end, I am talking with my whole chest out, and I'm just like, come at me.

[Hannah]

I dare you in.

[Mackenzie]

That's how I feel about a lot of our guests. And I think there are times where I know we say, like, it's so helpful to have people to hear stories like yours and make you feel less alone, but, you know, telling the story is really hard. And it's. I can't imagine going on a podcast or making your own podcast and baring all, like, I'm.

[Hannah]

I'm so fortunate to be in the.

[Mackenzie]

Position I'm in, but to be the guest. All of our guests, this is a message to all of you. Like, the fact that it's healing for you to tell the story. If that's the choice you make. This just feels like a privilege to get to hear your story is I guess what I'm trying to say.

[Laura]

And I think for me, I truly have come to this place where it had to happen to me, because I'm the one that is strong enough to stop him. No disrespect to the other ladies at all, but it had to happen to me. But it also had to happen to me to totally change the direction of my life. There is no part of my life that is the same anymore. And so here I am in my mid-40s now, totally reinventing myself, stronger and happier. And, you know, had that not happened, well, I would not sign up for it again. I wouldn't be on this course, so.

[Hannah]

And. And also, I would like to point out that because you're Sharing your story, you're going to impact someone else who's going to be like, who. You're gonna help someone else change the course of their own story. So I'm just so grateful for you, and I think you're so brave. Thank you so much for sharing your story. And I think this is for me. When you were talking about how he released your. Your most intimate photos and videos, and then when people were like, well, why'd you even send them? Like, I can't.

[Mackenzie]

Well, do you. If I have some questions that if they're like, too ask everything. Okay. But you're welcome to be like, yeah, no, yeah, the revenge porn. Because that's exactly what happened to you now that you're in a different place than in the moment of having a co worker say, will you just send them to me? Like, what would you say to people who have that reaction, who say, why were you wearing a short skirt when they assaulted you? Why did you even send them?

[Laura]

I do kind of address this at one point in the podcast, and I was super raw, so it might have come across a little harsher than it should have in the moment, but it doesn't matter. That's how I felt. I would say nobody knows the right thing to say to anybody, but if. If somebody comes into your life that this has just happened to them, just ask how you can support them. Do not offer advice. Do not offer an opinion. Do not up. Just shut the up. How can I support you? You're not alone. How can I support you? I got the, you know. Oh, it'll be buried in the Internet in no time. Oh, well, the good news is you look. There's nothing special about you. You just look like a generic woman.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you. Thanks so much.

[Laura]

Oh, my God.

[Mackenzie]

That's called bright siding. I learned that recently. What's it called? Bright sighting. When you.

[Hannah]

Oh, yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Like, it's actually pretty toxic.

[Hannah]

So what?

[Laura]

Diminishing?

[Hannah]

Yes, very. So where. Where is everything now? So how long has it been since. It's been two years since the photos were released. Where is everything now? As far as, like, have you been able to scrub anything from the Internet? Have you looked into any of that? Like, what has gone on with that?

[Laura]

Yeah, so I do randomly check every so often. Everything appears to be gone from what we know after I made that very clear message.

[Hannah]

So you think he took things down?

[Laura]

Oh, yeah. I think he's terrified because I said with IP addresses, like, what you've done is the police are involved. We all know what you.

[Hannah]

Dude, what's the name of your podcast so people can listen to it?

[Laura]

Yes, sure. It's called Sex, Lies and Tacos.

[Hannah]

I like it. You guys go listen to Sex, Lies and Tacos immediately.

[Mackenzie]

I want everybody to go listen. I, I thought of another question and if you have ideas, if there's anybody going through revenge porn issues, have you found any resources or tips? And Mackenzie, this is a question for you too, Ms. PI extraordinaire. What do we do? We talked about something called Delete Me. We have an ad for them, which is a win for us to keep.

[Hannah]

Your information off the Internet or to scrub it. They kind of. Yeah, they kind of monitor.

[Mackenzie]

That's like the first step. That's not like a guarantee. I'm just curious if you've come across anything in your unfortunate journey.

[Laura]

I would just say that, like these, you know, the big search engines, the social media providers, they really need to do better. There are ways that we can report that. You know, that's a category you can check off, but it's the constant reporting, the same accounts, the same things, the government issued ID proving it's you and stuff. Still, it doesn't get taken down. At one point, I got an account deactivated, but when I typed my whole legal name in, my image showed up in Google, like right there, the Google image. I click the link and it takes you to the dead account. And so it's just, they've got to do better because you are so exposed. And this is why people do no, you know, they do end their lives because you just are so defeated.

[Hannah]

You feel so defeated. And that's another reason I want to shout out to Melissa for being a zero tolerance hoe, because she was like, I don't. We ain't risking it. Like, we're done. And I feel like that zero tolerance is so important. And even myself, like, being a social media influencer, I have a lot of followers and I get a lot of negativity. Those people. There is no, like, did you mean to say that? Like, no, it is zero tolerance. Block and delete. If you're mean to one of my people, block and delete. I don't have time for it. I'm not entertaining this. We're block and delete, block and delete. And it's like, but how much blocking and deleting can you do when these people are just. When this guy is just like, you coming back. He seems to have unlimited time and resources. No wonder you're poor. You're spending all your time doing this crap.

[Laura]

Well, he, he did get fired from a job. So then he spent a whole. Like, at one point, we. We collected the emails, phone numbers and stuff. There was a hundred of them. He was just constantly stalking you and harassing you.

[Hannah]

Do you know how long it takes to create a new Gmail? It's at least 16. 16 minutes. Like, do you know how long it would take? Like, a hundred. I can't.

[Laura]

So.

[Hannah]

What a dumb.

[Laura]

Yeah, it's a scary. It's a scary world out there. But obviously, like, I hate to say it, but, like, I got so sucked in and so conned because this is what he does best. He knew what he was doing, and that's why he was so charming. And so.

[Hannah]

And he sprayed on your unmet needs. And I think a lot of those needs you didn't even realize were unmet because when you first met, you were like, listen, man, I'm on a solo location.

[Laura]

I don't.

[Hannah]

I don't need you.

[Laura]

I don't.

[Hannah]

And then.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Laura]

I wasn't sitting huddling in a corner.

[Hannah]

No, you were enjoying yourself. And it seems like he was able to. Like, they're not dumb people. Like, they know what they're doing. And he was able to really pull on your heartstrings and flirt and do the right things. And he. He knew what he was doing. And he prayed on those unmet needs. I don't even think you knew if they were unmet needs. And he prayed on him, and eventually he turned it into something that he wanted it to be. And then he just kept. Kept kicking you while you were down over and over and over.

[Laura]

Yeah, and there's.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, we're constantly trying to, you know, avoid this stuff. And I think one of the things that people say is, like, be happy being alone, and that'll make it easier to not be vulnerable. But at the end, this is like the opposite of bright sighting. At the end of the day, these shitty guys are out there, and that's the problem. Like, we can do all we can. And yes, it's our responsibility to try to do better.

[Hannah]

Be vigilant. No, they need to do better. These assholes need to do better.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

The problem is that the problem is them.

[Laura]

Yeah. But I think if you start noticing your gut telling you something or you start to see Pink Flags action.

[Hannah]

It's not a circus. Red flags are not a circus.

[Laura]

Listen. Because, you know, nobody wants to start over with somebody new, but nobody wants to go through this either. And so that.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I'm so proud of you. Will you keep us updated and Let us know. Is there anything new on the. On the love front or are we just kind of chilling?

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah. Where, you know.

[Laura]

You know, actually the last year, you know, I'm healing and then my friends are like, so when are you going to start dating again? You're really great person, you, whatever. And I was like, no. So I tried a little bit, but it's just. I was meeting horrible people. So I actually just in September, I totally left my life. I sold my house. I am no longer at that corporate job and I moved somewhere else. Fresh new start. And in October, I met somebody. And he is the kindest, sweetest, most normal person. I've never dated a nice guy like this. And so, you know, I. I took the time I needed to heal. I was a little jaded for a while.

[Hannah]

Of course you're allowed.

[Laura]

And I did a little trauma dumping, like over sharing too early on with other people. But I would say, you know, whatever. Like a year and a bit later, I opened up my heart and he's incredible. And I'm so glad that I didn't just shut everything off. You know, he's somebody who can communicate.

[Hannah]

He's somebody who can communicate.

[Mackenzie]

What were his green.

[Laura]

He's a man. Like, you know, finally a man.

[Mackenzie]

What were some things that he did, especially in response to your story, that maybe helped you, like, trust him more?

[Laura]

Well, when I shared my story, he didn't pry. I didn't go into all the gory details. I gave the high level. And he was just, oh, he let.

[Hannah]

You share in your own time.

[Laura]

In my own time. He listened. He is aware of the podcast. He has not listened to it. If I want him to, he will, but it's not. He doesn't need to know all about that. He plans stuff in advance. I see him all the time. Like, it's just. I don't know. There's been no. Nothing I couldn't bring up. There's no. There's never been a ghosting. There's not a. If I'm annoyed with something, I'm allowed to say that. And. And that's, you know, a lot of healing from my whole dating history. So he's really shown me that. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Are you is at this point with him? Because it's been two years. Are you still in a place where you're like, I'm not sending you no nudie duties though, or do you feel confident enough to share with him one?

[Laura]

I'm with a guy who would never ask. Thankfully, he's a dad. He's Got two kids. He would never ask. But, no, I really. I don't believe that I would ever send it again just because I have so much trauma attached to it. I have no judgment if anybody does.

[Hannah]

But with your experience, I can imagine you'd be like, maybe I won't.

[Laura]

Yeah, I would certainly say we all know this, but I would say put it in practice. Don't put your face in it if you're gonna do it. I get it. But just don't put your face in it. And I.

[Mackenzie]

No live photos. Make sure you know Apple has all the live photos. You never know.

[Laura]

You gotta track everything, and it doesn't matter if it's your husband or your. Like, you never know things are perfect until they're not. And you just never know how horrible people can be. What the beautiful thing is, it's a crime.

[Mackenzie]

My take, I'm writing down, like, if any nudie Judy's expect they're gonna go somewhere you don't want them to go. Anytime you lend money, don't expect it back. That was my final question.

[Laura]

Yes, I never. Did you get a penny back?

[Mackenzie]

Of course not.

[Laura]

Never got a penny back. Not one single penny. Nope. But you know what? It's okay. It's $9,000.

[Mackenzie]

It's not worth the continued effect of having him in your life, that's for sure. But I am so sorry that that is not a small amount. And what happened to you, all of this together is priceless.

[Hannah]

I'm so proud of you for sharing. Laura. Thank you so much. I can't thank you enough for this. Must have been a little bit difficult for you to share, but. But with you doing it even on your podcast, it's almost like you're like, listen, I'm a quiet girl, but I'm not being quiet no more. Like, I. I'm gonna defend myself.

[Mackenzie]

Number one, hold my beer.

[Hannah]

Yeah, hold my beer, bitch.

[Laura]

Hold my beer.

[Hannah]

I like it. Good for you. Thank you again, so much. We've loved having you here and hearing.

[Laura]

Thank you for allowing me to share it.

[Hannah]

We want to hear more about lover boy later. So if you want to give us.

[Mackenzie]

Updates, send MacKenzie who he is, just.

[Laura]

So in case she wants to make sure he's. Yeah, let's. Background checks for everybody moving forward.

[Hannah]

Background checks all around.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy you're okay, and I'm happy Melissa's okay. And I hope he's not okay.

[Laura]

How could he be? Karma's real.

[Hannah]

I. Okay, first of all, can we. Okay, first of all, There's a happy ending. Gratitude is the attitude. But I cannot believe what she experienced. And I feel like from the beginning she was Ramon's target. She was a target for him. I don't, I, I can't say the feelings are never real because obviously, I don't know, but, but I feel like from the beginning he was like, can I manipulate and target this woman? And it sounds like that's something that he probably was pretty good at.

[Mackenzie]

Well, the fact that there are other victims, other survivors who are wonderful people. I think that's part of why we say to like stick with these stories, like this can happen to anyone. And the minute you start telling yourself that it would never happen to you is when you become vulnerable. And it happens to smart people, it happens to independent people. It happens to people who feel like they have their shit together. These people are geniuses in a weird, fucked up way. Excuse my French, but Ramon knew how to target everyone and diabolical, honestly. Okay, we've got a Dogfish debrief if you're new here. Dogfish debrief is where we go through stories, pick out moments that we feel like we can learn from. We need to talk about even more. If you have moments that you want to share where you're like, oh, this especially about the revenge porn, should we start there? Because that's the biggest thing that happened we haven't talked about before.

[Hannah]

I don't know if you guys could hear it in my voice, but I was sobbing. And I don't know if you have been through something similar, but I know that I have been through something based parallel to what she's going through. And, and when I tell you that it is the most demeaning like it is, it is the feeling of, it's, it's all, it's an awful feeling. And you just, number one, you feel stupid. So that's why. I know last week we were talking about how, you know, in the beginning, even before we started recording the episode, the victim blaming situation is real. Like, that's, you know, it's so easy to say, oh, I can't believe. How could you?

[Mackenzie]

Why did you send the photo?

[Hannah]

Why did you send the photo? Like, if this is someone that you have come to trust, like, that's, that's, it's. The question should be why did they commit the crime? Not why did you do it? You know, it's, it's very victim blaming. But I do feel like when it comes to the revenge porn and he took her personal, her private, her intimate photos, that she shared with him, the intimate moments that she shared with him and posted them all over the Internet. Okay, that is. First of all, that's a. Like, a horror. It's a horrible, horrible thing to do to someone. It's a horrible crime. But. But I kind of want to talk about how the justice system and sites like Twitter really need to be doing better, right?

[Mackenzie]

Like, way better.

[Hannah]

Twitter. In 2015, they updated their policy to ban revenge porn, but in practice, like, they're not doing much to make sure that it's removed. And victims end up having to fight really hard to get Twitter to believe them that it's, in fact revenge porn. And if someone says, that's me, and I don't want that there, take it down. Like, that should be the end of the conversation.

[Mackenzie]

I mean, I agree. And I. I'm curious. People who have worked in tech companies like this. I know the initial argument is like, well, how are we supposed to monitor the entire Internet if you're Zuckerberg over at Facebook? It's like, Facebook is pretty big. Like, how do we know if somebody's lying? How do we know if somebody's actually who they say they are? Well, do we have the answer?

[Laura]

No.

[Mackenzie]

Do we know? It's important. Yes. And I think the thing this story did for me is I'm so fortunate to have not been through a situation like this where revenge porn has been used against me. And I think I've lived a long time knowing that it's bad, knowing that it's awful, but not really wrapping my head around the extent of it. And I think we see stuff like Pamela Anderson and sex tapes with celebrities and celebrity leaks, and it becomes this kind of. Of glorified thing where I feel like the association with it is often celebrity. And then. Then what she talked about, the way people respond are like, well, at least you look good. Like, that's actually a joke that I admit to have, like, in the back of my head. Like, I've always just been like, well, you know, don't put your face and stuff. And if you look good, then, oh, well. But it's like, it's not actually about that at all. It's about the violation, and it's about the feeling of having no control over yourself and your privacy.

[Hannah]

When she said people were they. They heard what had happened, and they're like, oh, you can send them to me for safekeeping.

[Mackenzie]

I knee slappers them.

[Hannah]

It's not a knee slapper. That is so offensive and hurtful. Like, this person has been a victim of a crime. Do you know what I mean? Like, can we take this stuff a little bit more seriously, please? And that's the problem. We need to stop downplaying what everything is. This is blackmail. This is a violation. This is so many different things. This is awful.

[Mackenzie]

And so, yeah, I'm just grateful that Laura shared this story, not only to hear how it helps her through storytelling with her healing, but she kind of forced me to go through it in a smaller, less similar way at all. Like, I'm feeling it with her in a brief moment, and I feel like I have a. A new empathy toward it in the smallest amount, given that I don't actually know what it feels like. And I just hope that it allows other people to feel the same way. Like, if anybody's there sitting there, like, me being like, yeah, that sounds awful. But it's not. Never happened to me. It's never going to happen to me. And, like, it's not like, you know, you just take them down or you just tell people it wasn't your fault.

[Hannah]

If she.

[Mackenzie]

No, we don't know what it's like.

[Hannah]

Imagine if she said the same thing. Like, no, he. If she thought that, like, she would have never sent the pictures or whatever.

[Laura]

Right?

[Hannah]

But the revenge porn is a huge deal. It is a huge violation, and it is.

[Laura]

It's awful.

[Hannah]

It's just awful. You share yourself with people that you trust, and when all of a sudden, you can't trust them and they weaponize your, you know, your intimate moments with them, it's just. It's just terrible. But what are the other. What are your other points for your dogfish debrief? Hannah's so good at the dog fish debrief.

[Laura]

Stop.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you. You always have the best talk about. Okay, well, I do have one little nerdy thing that came up in my brain, and it came from way back in high school when I took good old AP Psychology. I remember about three things from that class. That's actually generous. But one of the things I remember, it was called, I believe, the foot in the door phenomenon. And there's also the door in the face phenomenon. And what that means. Okay, the foot in the door, it's actually, like, what it sounds like. It's basically when you ask for something small, get them to say yes and open the door to ask for something more.

[Hannah]

And I have another name for that. It's called, you give a mouse a cookie, he's gonna want a glass of freaking milk.

[Mackenzie]

Well, that's how. Right. Oh, for sure. Yeah. It's Literally, like, the mouse is using the phenomenon to say, let's see if I can get this. It'll set the stage for getting something else. And it. What it does in our brains is it does, like, loosen up, up the ass. So if you say, like, oh, can I have $5? And they say, oh, that's not that much. And then once they give it to you, you could be like, actually, I need five more. When you initially went in, if you had asked for $10, they might have said no, because that was a bigger ask. And then door in the face is the opposite, where it's like, I asked for a hundred dollars. And you're like, what? I'm not giving you a hundred dollars. And then you say, well, okay, can I have $5? And you're like, well, yeah, that's not that much. Just ask for $5. You would have been like, why do you need $5 dollars?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

So I felt like he did that especially with asking 100. The candy and then the shoes and then the Apple watch, you know what I mean?

[Hannah]

Like, and the laptop. There were so many things that he basically stole from her. I made a list. So the Apple watch, the shoes, Cirque du Soleil tickets. Hello, Cirque du Soleil cologne, the. The zipline, adventure flights, the resort laptop. All those things, right? Like, I. I just. Just the phone.

[Mackenzie]

She bought his. His new wife a phone. She gave her a wedding present.

[Hannah]

But speaking of new wife, can we give a shout out to freaking Melissa?

[Laura]

I love women.

[Hannah]

How many times do we hear where they tell the wife and the wife actually acts the way that he was trying to pretend to be when he was trying to pretend. When he was trying to pretend to respond as the wife. A lot of them do act that way because you want to stand by your man and you don't want.

[Mackenzie]

And you don't want to believe it. Exactly.

[Hannah]

And Melissa was zero tolerance. One of my favorite sayings is when someone shows you their true colors, believe them the first time. And I believe Melissa is like, okay, well, that's the true colors. I. I believe it. And she was solid. And for being much younger, I think that that was pretty cool that she had such a good, solid head on her shoulder. And I'm. I think that between Melissa and Laura, I think they both kind of helped one another when she got on the.

[Mackenzie]

Phone and said, I believe you. Yep, Hunter broke me because that's the words she needed to hear the whole time and to hear it from somebody going through it too, who was then able to Say we're both in this and I, I almost. I don't know. I. You, you don't know how you're gonna respond. And I get it. If you're angry at that and you let it out on the wrong person. You're human. But it's a good reminder to be open minded. This can happen to anybody and I really hope it doesn't happen to you. But if you ever get that hey girly message, it might not be if your man is telling you that it's their crazy ex. I don't know. That's not a good sign. It's not a good sign.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's always. Well, we always talk about what's the red flag. And when he says my ex is crazy. Yeah, it's always a red flag. Oh, I wanted to psycho.

[Mackenzie]

I did want to say so. Her podcast is called Sex, Lies and Tacos. You can go listen to the details. There's a reason, I feel like there was a point where people probably wanted to know more about Melissa relationship with Ramon and her story and how she met him and what he did to her, etc. We don't, we focus on the guests and like legally we only tell the story based on what pertains to the guests. So there might be elements of their story that's like the dog fish's childhood trauma that while that is part of the story, it's like it's not actually their story. So we don't speculate that.

[Hannah]

We don't ethical true crime that ethical stories we were telling them ethically.

[Mackenzie]

Right. So we're only going to tell Melissa's parts of the story that are related to the guest. And that's just because Melissa didn't choose to tell her story. So if you have those questions, I get it because I. There was. I really wanted to be like, I need to hear Melissa's entire run down with this man. But that's why. And I think we can just honestly assume that it's pretty similar. I mean he just loved a Canadian woman that was willing to give him some money.

[Hannah]

I guess she said he had a type. I, I want to talk about the trauma bonding that Laura and Melissa did. I just think that with them, like you said, with both of them going through the same thing with the same person and seeing ultimately what he did to exact his revenge on her and them. And it was just the trauma but like no one else understands but Melissa. You know what I mean?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I'm glad they had each. I'm so glad for that. And there were a couple of things that Laura said that I wanted to talk about. And one of them was, I know we. We talked at the beginning of the show about the. We gave the trigger warnings for suicide. And she was saying, I just don't want to be here anymore. Like, can you imagine feeling so defeated by something that you have no understanding or comprehension of ever being able to overcome it to the point where you want to end your life? That's what this guy did. We, as people, we underestimate the power that our words have and that our actions have. And so when we do these things and you're. You're making someone, like, literally not want to live anymore. That's crazy.

[Mackenzie]

It reminded me of the stalker episode, too, because that was just another. Another case of she felt the same way. Yeah. And there are people who could say, well, he's not doing anything. He's just. He's just like, terrorizing you. He's changing the way you live on a day to day, minute to minute, second to second basis. Like, these people, you're constantly looking over your shoulder, constantly wondering if you're done with them, if you have to keep fighting, if they're going to terrorize you in a new way, they're intimidating you. It's exhausting. It sounds exhausting. And then to add her grief from her family, I mean, I just wanted to hug her.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

She's lost her parents like this. She's a lot like, what do you do? Like, let's call, like, the. Just the audacity, the complete audacity. And so that was such a huge thing for me. I was just like, can you imagine being someone who makes someone else want to end their life? Another thing that she said towards the end was because you know how she presented, she was very, like, meek and quiet and, you know, she don't want to ruffle no feathers or whatever. And then at the end, she said, when she was talking about starting her podcast and she said, I decided to stand the up. I decided to stand up, and if you don't lay down, you cannot get walked on. And that's coming from someone who said skeptic. Yeah, I said that. So I feel like coming from someone who's a skeptic, like, don't let anybody walk on you and don't trust anybody. But you can't live your life like that like I do, because, like, well, you can.

[Mackenzie]

You can Job not let anybody walk all over you, even if you trust. Like, there's a.

[Hannah]

That's true too.

[Mackenzie]

Setting boundaries.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Knowing and also, and this is very hard to do. I'm not saying that, like, this is something you flip a switch and are perfect at, but like, knowing your boundaries before you get into relationships, having that conversation with yourself, with your therapist, with your mom, with your friends about what.

[Hannah]

You'Re willing to put up with before even knowing someone. Because then it's like, if you already know them, you're like, well, I guess I'll put. And then now you're settling, like, set those boundaries ahead of time. Say, I do not want this period.

[Laura]

You know what I mean?

[Mackenzie]

And then I'm going to give an example that's subtle because I think a lot of girls convince themselves that they're asking for too much with this. I have a dear friend who I feel like we in. In unintentionally had this conversation basically when people didn't text her back. As much as she was good at text, like, she was a good texter. You know, she wanted to talk to a new person she was dating pretty consistently, and some people don't, and that's okay. And she felt like she was asking for too much. She felt like her anxiety around when they weren't texting her as much was, was too much and, and, and annoying and overdramatic. And finally we got to a point where we were like, you know, if this is what you need, this is what you need. And if they aren't into that, that's okay. They're not for you. And so she came to that understanding before, like, she wasn't with somebody at that point. She was like, I'm not going to settle for this. Not because I'm asking for too much, but because I just like that. Like, I like that reassurance. I have the anxious attachment that Laura talked about. I like being reassured that this person wants to have a relationship and communication with me. This story reminds you that you're not asking for too much because when they're on a cruise and saying they don't want to talk to you and they ghost you, they might be secretly planning their wedding. You know, you're not crazy.

[Hannah]

Crazy.

[Mackenzie]

But I just love that she now goes through dating and is like, like able to separate the person from the boundary in a way when, if they're not meeting that she can say, you know, I know that this is something that's important to me and it has nothing to do with them as a human has nothing to do with them liking me. It's just compatibility.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And now she's like, with somebody and he's British, which is, like, sick.

[Hannah]

I love an accent, and he's handsome as hell.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, he is. Good for her.

[Hannah]

Another thing that she said that really stuck with me. Your voice is your weapon. Your voice is your weapon. And that was very powerful to me because I feel like, as someone who's always, like, literally and metaphorically, if you think about it literally, for me, because I have a mouth of the south, I can talk like, I'll be loud and obnoxious, whatever, but I'm also going to be the one who says, no, this doesn't work for me, and use my voice. And I feel like so many of us don't. And I think she's a great reminder that it's a important to use your voice. Like, your voice is your weapon. Say it. And that's why they say, say see something, say something. Because your voice could be what saves somebody. Which leads me to expressing my gratitude for these guests sharing their story, because by sharing it and verbalizing it and sharing it with others, you're giving them inspiration to use their voice as well. So thank you. I'm just so grateful for Laura.

[Mackenzie]

Laura is so brave, and I cannot wait to dive deeper into sex, lies, and tacos. And I hope you all, too, because there's more there. And I love that she talked about how her voice changed throughout, like, as she told her story, which I. Like I said, I've noticed that in guests where they start maybe especially because they do an intro call with Molly, and then by the time they get to the end of their story, I'm so excited that it seems to have brought some kind of healing. I love. We had a guest that said, I have some stuff of my dogfish fishes. Dog fishes, whatever. She had some of his photos. Yeah, well, like, I'm doing the possessive thing, you know, it was like, his clothes. And she was like, after I'm recording this episode, I'm gonna go throw out the last bag of his clothes and, like, use this as kind of a cleansing.

[Laura]

And that was so special to me.

[Mackenzie]

Because telling your own story is like owning your narrative. And then you can choose to close the book. Like, okay, next book, please. Thank you. Next.

[Hannah]

Sex, Lies, and Tacos is a great representation of that. So I. I really love that. I'm so proud of her. And, yeah, we love you, Laura. We love you, girl. Anyways, again, keep the conversation going on Patreon. It's $5 a month. You can join the Patreon. It's a amazing community of people. You get two bonus episodes a month. And we try to do updates there, too. So if you want updates on the guests. Guests also send us your story. And I. So many people are like, well, I want us in my story, but it's kind of stupid. Do you guys know it's not your experience. None of your experiences are stupid. And there is value in what you have experienced because you never know how it could impact someone else. So send us your stories. Investigate at the Dating Detectives podcast dot com. I'm sorry.

[Mackenzie]

No, sorry. I'm glad you said that. That was very important. They needed that impact. I was just gonna say that we sometimes read them on Patreon. We just did an episode. Mackenzie, you were in Hawaii, and I missed you, but Molly subbed in. And we read some. You're in Hawaii, which I love. But it was two people who had. One was a sex worker and one had been a sex worker. And they sent their stories. They weren't doctor stories, but they were, like, relevant to the nail salon episode you had done. And in response to that, we wanted to hear more about that. That lifestyle, because it makes you more vulnerable in a lot of ways. So stuff like that, no matter what your story, it's. We want to hear it, we love it, and we want to talk to you about it.

[Hannah]

And that's what's great about podcasts, is that it is literally a place to talk and to share, and you never know how. What your. You never know how your words could impact someone or help them or guide them or give them a eureka moment or help them realize something or do you know what I mean? Like, it's. It's important and it's valuable. So send it on over to us and trust your femtuition.

[Mackenzie]

Give her the mic. Let her sing, baby. Give your mic to Femme tuition. She's a good singer, believe it or not. She's, like, kind of a diva.

[Hannah]

That gut instinct is. I want to name a real.

[Mackenzie]

My fem tuition. I should give her a name.

[Hannah]

What are you gonna name her?

[Mackenzie]

I don't know. Give me. Guys, give me ideas for naming my fem tuition. I want to give her a purse. Like a. Like a character. Do you have an idea?

[Hannah]

Mine is Joan. I don't know.

[Mackenzie]

Did you just come up with that, or do you always, like, talk to your inner voice as Joan?

[Hannah]

No, I just. Every once in a while, I've been. Because, I don't know, like, I think of Joan Crawford in Mommy Dearest, and she's like, no more wire hangers. And it, like, makes me so mad and so I have this angry, like, whatever, but also that knows what's up. Like, she will. She will feel all the feels and call it out.

[Mackenzie]

Wait, okay, so if you're femme. Tuition is Joan for Joan Crawford, Maybe. Mine is like Lucille. Like Lucille Ball.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

I feel like mine is like Lucy. I love that she's, like, doing her best.

[Hannah]

I like.

[Laura]

No, I love.

[Hannah]

That would be my alternate personality. Be like Lucille Ball, like Lucy. Like, what. What happened?

[Laura]

Huh.

[Hannah]

But no, that's 100% Lucy and Joan.

[Mackenzie]

I love it. Wow. Our alter egos. When we get drunk. No, I'm just kidding. Goodness. Okay.

[Hannah]

So funny. On that note, thank you again so much, Laura. You guys, whenever you send love over, you send comments over. We make sure that Laura knows that you're supporting her and that you love her. So keep the conversation going. It's okay to disagree or feel any type of way, but be sweet. Yeah, Be sweet, be kind, whatever.

[Mackenzie]

You know, do the right thing. And as always, trust your fem tuition. Bye.