Stranger Than Fiction

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Stranger Than Fiction"
The Dating Detectives
Released: February 17, 2025

Hosts:

• Mackenzie Fultz – Professional Private Investigator
• Hanna Anderson – Comedian

---

Introduction

In the episode titled "Stranger Than Fiction," hosts Mackenzie Fultz and Hanna Anderson delve into an extraordinarily complex and emotionally charged story involving deception, manipulation, and familial betrayal within the dating world. The episode features Miley, a guest who recounts her harrowing experience with a deceptive family member, exposing a web of lies that left her and her family in turmoil.

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Background Story Setup

Miley begins by outlining her relationship history, providing essential context for the unfolding drama.

• Meeting and Marriage:
  "[03:15] Miley: So my husband Dan and I have been together for about 13ish years. We met after I moved from Michigan to Ohio. We were working at the same place. We actually hated each other's guts when we first met."

Despite a rocky start, Miley and Dan rapidly progressed their relationship, moving in together within a week due to family emergencies. This swift commitment set the stage for future complications.

---

The Con Unfolds: Fake Marriage and Pregnancy

The deception begins when Miley's brother-in-law, Joe, enters into an arrangement that appears unconventional and fraught with red flags.

• Announcement of Marriage:
  "[07:54] Miley: I finally just asked, you know, like, what's going on here? And brother in law holds up his left hand and he has a wedding band on."

At a family dinner, Joe unexpectedly announces his impending marriage to Brenda, a 19-year-old female coworker, claiming it as part of an open relationship agreement. This revelation is perplexing to Miley and her husband, given Joe's young age and their limited interaction.

• Reaction to the Marriage Announcement:
  "[09:48] Candace: You're just like, huh?"
  "[09:51] Miley: Yeah. We're literally like, oh, you're married. And he's like, no. Well, we're not married right now. It's like a Sunday. He's like, we're getting married on Wednesday."

The hastiness of the marriage and the lack of prior indication of a serious relationship raise suspicions.

---

Financial Manipulations and Blackmail Threats

As Joe and Brenda's relationship progresses, ulterior motives emerge, revealing a pattern of financial deceit and manipulation.

• Blackmail for Financial Gain:
  "[16:03] Miley: Joe has had a baby, which leads us to the financial manipulation part. Brenda, aware of her situation, demands that Joe and Miley cover her expenses or face legal consequences."

Brenda's family's religious background complicates matters further. Brenda refuses to terminate the pregnancy, insisting on retaining custody, which forces Joe and Miley into uncomfortable legal arrangements where they assume full custody of the twins.

• Custody and Legal Arrangements:
  "[16:37] Candace: Now I understand why they were explaining their openness."
  "[16:22] Miley: So Brenda and Joe, I bet they..."

Brenda threatens to expose Joe's actions at the bar, leveraging surveillance footage to ensure compliance with her financial demands, thereby intensifying the manipulation.

---

Discovery of Inconsistencies and Unraveling

Miley's investigative instincts, honed by Mackenzie Fultz's expertise, begin to uncover alarming inconsistencies in Joe and Brenda's narrative.

• Realizing the Lies:
  "[32:17] Miley: Miley tells us that her family is very rich. Very, very rich. Very, very, very rich. They are from Florida. And so Joe bring Florida into this."

Miley discovers discrepancies such as Brenda's grandfather being alive, contrary to previous statements about his passing. These inconsistencies lead Miley to suspect that the entire storyline is fabricated.

• Confirming the Deception:
  "[54:11] Candace: I have seen no pictures of her."
  "[54:19] Miley: Also, Miley, the only social media she has is Instagram. So I'm thinking like, well maybe this is what the young kids do."

Further investigation reveals that Brenda never had twins, and the supposed ultrasound confirmations were falsified, deepening the mystery of their deception.

• Exposure of the Fake Pregnancy:
  "[62:10] Mackenzie: So it is twins or it's not twins?"
  "[62:13] Miley: So it was twins and then it wasn't twins and now it's twins again."

Miley's persistence leads her to confirm that no twins exist, and the pregnancies were entirely fabricated to sustain the con.

---

Confrontation and Aftermath

The culmination of the deception forces Miley and her husband to confront the deceit, resulting in a strained familial relationship and eventual severance of ties.

• Final Confrontation:
  "[84:01] Mackenzie: She got the recipes."
  "[84:03] Miley: I have a whole photo album on my phone called our last name. Family drama with all of this saved in there."

Miley sends a vehement message to Brenda, outlining her discovery of the lies, leading to a complete fallout.

• Breaking Off Communication:
  "[87:03] Mackenzie: She didn't."
  "[88:45] Candace: I don't even know what to ask."
  "[89:17] Mackenzie: They are all lying. There's no damn baby."

The episode highlights the emotional toll of such deceit, emphasizing the importance of trust and vigilance in personal relationships.

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Host Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Mackenzie and Hanna offer professional insights into recognizing red flags and the psychological underpinnings of such deceptive behaviors.

• Recognizing Red Flags:
  "[105:37] Candace: But she did not care. So."
  "[105:44] Candace: It opens the wounds. And on top of it, you know, the viciousness of what she's choosing to do."

• The Psychology Behind the Con:
  "[97:35] Mackenzie: Yeah."
  "[98:15] Candace: And so they chose the nosiest to try to pull one of over on and I was not on to us."

The hosts conclude by urging listeners to trust their intuition and remain cautious, particularly when significant life events are involved.

• Final Advice:
  "[115:07] Miley: It."
  "[105:37] Candace: I'm blown away. And to have kids involved. Oh, yeah, that too."

Mackenzie summarizes the episode's lessons, emphasizing the importance of due diligence and the painful impact of deceitful relationships.

• Summary Statement:
  "[105:37] Mackenzie: But she did not care. So."

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Notable Quotes

• Mackenzie on Fact-Checking:
  "[00:49] Mackenzie: If I had not been a private investigator for as long as I have and seen some crazy stories, I probably would not believe this. But we do fact check this stuff."

• Miley on the Wild Ride:
  "[03:02] Miley: Buckle up is all I can say. I mean, seriously, it is. You're going to have, like, freaking whiplash. Okay. It."

• Candace on Emotional Impact:
  "[72:15] Candace: That's so sad."

• Mackenzie on Deception:
  "[106:19] Mackenzie: They are all lying. There's no damn baby."

• Miley on Familial Betrayal:
  "[108:42] Miley: Someone reached out to mother in law and had her text Dan to leave Joe alone in a really disgusting way."

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Conclusion

"Stranger Than Fiction" serves as a cautionary tale about the depths of deception that can occur within personal relationships and families. Through Miley's poignant recounting and the hosts' investigative prowess, listeners gain valuable insights into identifying and navigating red flags in their own lives. The episode underscores the vital importance of trust, transparency, and due diligence in maintaining healthy relationships.

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For more stories and discussions on deceptive relationships, subscribe to The Dating Detectives and join our community on Patreon. Share your experiences and theories with us to help uncover the truth behind the lies.

Transcript

[Candace]

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support. This is a crazy one. Hi, guys, y'all.

[Mackenzie]

If I had not been a private investigator for as long as I have and seen some crazy stories, I probably would not believe this. But we do fact check this stuff.

[Candace]

I promise we're jumping right in. Yeah. Molly was like, guys, just remind everybody that we do extreme, extensive fact checking, because this is one of those stories that they're going to be like, no way, no way, no way, no way. I'm excited for the debrief because, honestly, it's the first time I'm going into a dogfish debrief with, like, minimal notes. Just, like, gagged, jaw on the floor, don't even know where to begin. Don't even know what to say. Like, usually I'm like, okay, great. We gotta talk about this topic. This topic. This one. I'm like, what?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I'm sorry, what did you say? I just can't. And it just goes to show you that, like, this isn't just, like. This isn't just boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, like, dogfish. This is like, dude, my husband's, brother's, like, wild situation.

[Candace]

It's like a family of fish here. And that is a good reminder. So if you guys have a story, whether it is romantic or otherwise, we want to hear it. If there's a dogfish involved, we want to catch them. I'll tell you up top. Investigate@the datingdetectives podcast.com email address. Nailed it. Send us your stories. Be in depth. Write bullet points, or just a good, you know, overview of the story so we know what it is and a good subject line. True, true, true.

[Mackenzie]

Not just dogfish. We got all of our emails say, dogfish, dogfish.

[Candace]

And we're like, I know, but give me more information. Yeah, Molly gets a lot. Shout out to Molly. She's a badass producer. So send us your stories. What else do we need to tell people before we give it to Candace?

[Mackenzie]

Trigger warning. If you're triggered by, like, traumatic. Traumatic birth. Yeah, traumatic birth or anything like that. It this one kind of Makes you sad. It's one of those things where you're like, it's hard to hear some of it.

[Candace]

I think stillborn trigger. Anything about that comes up and just so you know, protect your hearts. Should we, I guess, do the whole story thing that we usually do on this podcast?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, let's. Let's introduce you to our guest. So, Candace, from what I understand, you're going to take us on a ride and we're excited for it all.

[Candace]

We know Molly said this is like nothing we've heard before.

[Miley]

Buckle up is all I can say. I mean, seriously, it is. You're going to have, like, freaking whiplash. Okay. It. It's a wild ride.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, bless. It's a doozy.

[Miley]

O. So I'm going to give a little bit of backstory, if that's okay.

[Candace]

Oh, we love a backstory.

[Miley]

Okay, great. So my husband Dan and I have been together for about 13ish years. We met after I moved from Michigan to Ohio. We were working at the same place. We actually hated each other's guts when we first met.

[Mackenzie]

That's how all the greatest love stories start.

[Miley]

I know, right? It was like, I hate his guts. And now he's the best thing that's ever happened to me, like, in real life. So we are together for about a week before I have a lot of family drama with my dad, which is where I'm staying, and I get kicked out. And so I move in with my husband within a week of knowing him and like really kind of dating. So it's like 0 to 100. Not only do I move in with, like, him, his mom and his brother. Okay, so we're all living in mom's house.

[Candace]

How old were y'all?

[Miley]

I was 19 and he was. Yes, I was a baby. And I want to say he was like 22, 23. Brother in law is eight years younger than my husband. I basically did not see him the whole time I lived there. He was very much in his room. He's a gamer and so that's what he did. Okay. Went to school, played games and that was that. And it's fine. My mother in law and I are. We're totally different and we have a very strained relationship at that point. We're nice enough just because, you know, obviously I live under her roof and I'm very grateful for that. But we just have a strained relationship. Brother in law and I, again, we just don't talk. My husband and him don't really talk. It's just they're eight years apart, so they don't have a whole lot in common. My husband's just kind of like the blue collar guy. He goes to work, he does what he needs to do and he could make friends with anybody. And brother in law is just totally opposite, which is fine.

[Candace]

The brother in law sounds like a good roommate if you.

[Miley]

Yeah, he'd be a great roommate. You'd never see him. Yeah, perfect.

[Candace]

Like I live alone.

[Miley]

Exactly. So it's just not really unusual for us to not hear from brother in law then and even now to this day. Okay, so fast forward to, I want to say November ish of 2021. Brother in law moves to Michigan for his first like big boy job out of college. He graduated and he's moving away to do his big boy thing, which is really exciting. We're all happy for him, but again we just don't really, we don't really hear from him. We get all of our updates from mother in law, which is fine. So after he moves away pretty quickly, we get an update that he has moved in this girl Miley, and he's not really into her. She's not really his type. Her lease I guess was ending and she was getting ready to move out of state.

[Mackenzie]

Convenient.

[Miley]

She needed. Yeah, but she needed a place to stay before she moved.

[Candace]

Okay, they are dating or he just let her move in.

[Miley]

They're kind of like friends with benefits from the sounds of it.

[Candace]

Sure.

[Miley]

I mean they're, she's cooking for him, she's cleaning for him, they're doing the nasty, you know, each to each their own, you know, okay, whatever works for you, I guess. No judgment here. So you know, she's staying there from November. Going forward, she is supposed to move to North Carolina, but they never give like a timeline on when. Fast forward a couple months again. And now it's about March of 2022. My twins had just turned a year old and he comes to their birthday party alone. So we all just kind of assumed that she moved where she was supposed to go, North Carolina, and was gonna do her thing and that was that. He didn't mention her and we didn't ask. Fast forward a little bit again to about May of 2022. We get a call from mother in law and she's just talking with Dan, my husband, you know, normal stuff. How's it going? What are you doing? And then at the end she says, oh, by the way Joe, my brother in law has really big news, but I'm not going to tell you. He is going to have to tell you himself.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, boy.

[Miley]

I know. And we cannot pry it out of her. She will not tell us anything. And so we are just, like, racking our brains on what's going on. Soon after, probably maybe 30 minutes to an hour later, Joe texts us, and he's like, I have really big news. I want you to meet Miley. Can we come over for Memorial Day? And we're like, yeah, absolutely. Come on over. I didn't think you guys were still a thing, but bring her over. So they come over, we meet her. She's nice enough. It's awkward, but I feel like anytime you meet new family, it's pretty awkward.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Seeing a new girlfriend, especially if she's like, they know that I was a friends with benefit.

[Miley]

Yes. And, I mean, I could see how that would be so awkward. Yeah. And then on top of it, I'm sure they're nervous to share whatever news they're sharing. So we're hanging out, and my husband is grilling. And of course, I'm cooking all the rest of the thing because men.

[Candace]

I thought you meant grilling, like, asking a ton of questions. Because that's what Mackenzie and I would be doing by grilling.

[Miley]

I am so nosy. You'll find out that I am, like, the nosiest of nosy. Okay? If there's one thing about me, it's that I'm gonna know everything about everything. I want the no, I want to know the who, the what, the why, the how, the when, all the things.

[Mackenzie]

All the things. That's me.

[Miley]

I'm such a nosy bitch. And it's fine. It's fine.

[Mackenzie]

Amen, sister.

[Miley]

But, you know, he's like, grilling me, you know? So we're just making small talk, just trying to fill the awkward space with some sort of talk. And we all finally sit down for dinner. It's getting pretty tense. About halfway through, we're all finally like, okay, is anybody going to say what's going on? You know, somebody spill the beans. I'm nosy. I need to know everything. So I finally just asked, you know, like, what's going on here? And brother in law holds up his left hand and he has a wedding band on.

[Mackenzie]

So they got married. They got hitched.

[Miley]

I know. And we're like, what? What? I mean, congratulations was not the first word out of our mouths. We're just.

[Candace]

You're just like, huh?

[Miley]

Yeah. We're literally like, oh, you're married. And he's like, no. Well, we're not married right now. It's like a Sunday. He's like, we're getting married on Wednesday.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, I know.

[Miley]

Why are you wearing your wedding band already? I will never understand. But we're like, oh, congratulations, question mark. Like, I don't. I don't know what to say to this. This is so weird. Like, last we knew, you didn't even like her, and now you guys are, like, shacking it up and getting married. It's so weird.

[Candace]

Also, how old is he? Oh, you said he graduated college, so.

[Miley]

He was maybe at this point, I don't know, 22, 23. So he's still a baby. And we got married really young, so we're not like, super shocked at the age. We're just shocked that, oh, gosh, last we knew, you didn't even like her, and now all of a sudden, you're married. He also tells us that he brought her to town when we had our kid's birthday party, but he made her stay at a hotel because he wasn't ready for us to meet her. So it's just. It's such a. It's such a weird conversation that we're having, and it's about to get a whole lot weirder.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, God.

[Candace]

Mackenzie, we're really quick going to talk about zocdoc, and this ad is very good timing because I've been making a lot of excuses for not going to the Dr. Zoc.

[Mackenzie]

Doc. That sounds like a superhero. I love it.

[Candace]

In a way, it is. So when was the last time you needed to go to the doctor, but you pushed it off for me, it's now. Okay. I really need to go see my primary care doctor. I haven't in a while, but I found that doctor on zocdoc, and zocdoc is going to get me my next appointment. So it's an app that makes it so easy to find and make appointments with a doctor. It is free. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment.

[Mackenzie]

Wait, you could just find them on the app and do the appointment?

[Candace]

Yeah. And you can check if they're covered in your insurance and you can put in any filters that you want. If you're like, oh, I'm going to an obgyn and I feel more comfortable with a woman. Let me filter by that.

[Mackenzie]

I'm so tired of calling offices and be like, do you accept new patients?

[Candace]

Wait, literally, no. This is it. And it you can say, oh, I'm only available on this day. Let's see what doctors have appointments. I Found my dentist, I found my gynecologist, I found my primary care doctor, and I found my dermatologist all through zocdoc. And then my friends and my mom started going to some of the same ones, and they were like, wow, you're really good at finding doctors. And that is not a lie. Like, people have told me that. And I'm telling you it was because of zocdoc.

[Mackenzie]

And it's free.

[Candace]

It's free. So in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty, from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care, and more, like I said, you can filter doctors who take your insurance, who are located nearby, who are a good fit for any, like, need you have. It's kind of like a dating app for doctors. And I'm not trying to date them. I wish you could filter by single. Geez.

[Mackenzie]

Well, I was gonna say it's like when I shop and it's like, what are you shopping for? And I'm like, shoes, duh. And then it's like, what color, what style? And you can like break it down.

[Candace]

It's like that. It's exactly like that. And then once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings right there. You can choose a time slot that works for instantly book a visit. And appointments made through ZOC Talk also happen super fast. Like, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. A lot of times you can get one same day even. I know. So I. I've used it, and I've used it long before I heard about it through our podcast. So I was very excited to work with them. And you should check it out because you're right, mackenzie. It is basically a superhero ZOC dock to the rescue. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com TDD and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z O c d o c.com TDD zocdoc.com TDD.

[Miley]

We can tell that she's like, holding something back. And so we're all just, we kind of turn and stare at her and are like waiting for her to continue, you know, and so finally she just like launches into the story. Okay, so, oh my God, we find out again, they're getting married on Wednesday. The reason they are getting married is because, remember, she was supposed to move away to North Carolina, so she pregnant. Well, that's what I've been waiting for. No, no, no. Nope. She's supposed to move away, but they have actually Decided that they are really getting along. They want to continue a relationship. So they are going to try to have like an open relationship because obviously they're young, they're not going to be able to see each other a ton, but they are liking each other. So they want to do the long distance thing.

[Candace]

Why is this something you need to like announce to your brother at family.

[Miley]

In front of your like 1 year old niece and nephew?

[Candace]

It's like we don't judge but like keep. You don't have to tell the family of Thanksgiving.

[Miley]

I know. And we're like, oh my God. Okay. And so we're just sitting there in sudden silence. And she continues. It's so much more. She says that they decided to do the open relationship thing. So they were going to do a trial run before they made it like official, before she moved away. They wanted to see. Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

So an engagement where they have an open relationship but not. But, but they're going to get married first.

[Candace]

I'm so confused.

[Miley]

No, at this point they were not going to get married.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Miley]

They were not going to get married. They were just going to do long distance relationship.

[Mackenzie]

Oh.

[Miley]

But they both have quote unquote needs. That's literally what she said. We have needs that were going to need to be met. And I'm like, we want to be.

[Mackenzie]

Together but we need to hook up. Okay.

[Miley]

Yes. So they're going to do a trial run of an open relationship. They decide to go out to a bar. They're buying drinks. They're both getting drunk. He spots a girl from across the bar. He wants to make his move, so he starts buying her drinks. He finds out she's 19 years old. We're going to call her Brenda. So he and Brenda are taking shots. They're doing the things that young people do at a bar. And he knows that she's 19. I have to stress that he knows that she is 19. Okay. They are super wasty pants at this point. They are practically doing it on the bar from what they are telling us. So they obviously make the decision to leave, which is for the best because nobody wants to watch that. They go out to the parking lot in his car and they do the nasty. Obviously he's not wearing a condom because he gets her pregnant.

[Candace]

Brenda.

[Miley]

So Brenda and Joe, I bet they.

[Mackenzie]

Didn'T talk about this before they.

[Miley]

They decided, I sure as hell that they did it. So he got 19 year old little baby Brenda pregnant. However, Brenda's family is super religious.

[Mackenzie]

Oh boy.

[Miley]

And she also is a little bit religious and does not believe in abortions, which again, you know, whatever your beliefs go with it.

[Candace]

Goes the dad.

[Miley]

Yes. So she does not want to have the babies and like keep custody of them. She wants to have them.

[Mackenzie]

It's twin.

[Miley]

Yes, she says twins at this point. Oh, sorry. Yes, they announced that it's twins at this dinner and I'll get into that too. So she does not want the babies. So Joe is going to have her sign away her rights. He is going to get full custody of them and then Miley, his soon to be wife, is going to adopt the children.

[Candace]

Now I understand why they were explaining their.

[Miley]

The openness.

[Candace]

Openness. I'm still uncomfy.

[Miley]

It's still not a fun dinner to have or like a conversation to have at dinner. Like you're chewing on your corn cob and the next thing you know, like, hey, we're banging other people while banging. It's just so weird. It's so weird. And like we are very like traditional. Okay. Like my husband and I are. So this is. I'm sure you can imagine we were different.

[Mackenzie]

Different for you.

[Miley]

Yeah. I mean we're pretty open people, but still like wild. This is wild.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

So we are just like, okay. But there's more. Miley tells us that her family is very rich. Very, very rich. Very, very, very rich. Has so much money. They are from Florida. And so Joe bring Florida into this. Hold on, I'm sorry, I'm. But they are going to move to Florida because the grandparents of Miley are very well connected and they have helped Joe get his dream job. And they have also bought them a condo in Florida. So now they get to start their new life as a new mom and dad. A new married couple in Florida, close to her family, so that her family can help with the twins. And the grandparents are also paying for the lawyer because a lawyer, I guess has to be involved if you're signing away your rights and all that jazz.

[Candace]

Sure.

[Miley]

So on top of the lawyer being involved, they tell us that 19 year old Brenda does not want to work anymore. And so she is holding.

[Mackenzie]

Well, I don't either.

[Miley]

Yeah, no, same. Yeah. I'm like, well, is this all it takes because sign me up, you know. So Brenda says that she doesn't want to work anymore. She wants Joe to pay for her apartment. Okay. So the grandparents are paying for the lawyer. She wants the grandparents and Joe to also pay for her apartment. She no longer wants to work. So she says that if they do not do this, she is going to go to the cops with the video Surveillance from the bar. So she's blackmailing him, saying he knew I'm 19 and he still bought me drinks.

[Candace]

Oh, got it. I was even, I was like, she's 18 though. The drink thing.

[Miley]

Yeah, the drinks. So, because he knew, and he admits that he knew that she was 19 before all this happened, but obviously, I mean, he was drunk too, so his decision making.

[Candace]

Wouldn't that get the bar in trouble more than him? I don't know the law.

[Miley]

I don't know either. And so at this point we're just going with it.

[Mackenzie]

That's a bar thing.

[Miley]

I don't know. It's so confusing and there's just so much going on. It's just so strange. So Joe will have a job in Florida. They will have a condo. The lawyer is helping facilitate everything. The grandparents are paying for Brenda's apartment and paying for all the things because obviously nobody is working at this point. Joe gives his 30 day notice to his job and to his apartment and they are just gonna start their little life down in Florida. I do ask Miley at the point, like, how do you, how far along is she? Like, are you sure it's twins? Because obviously I just went through this like a year and a half ago. Right. Like, how far along is she? And she tells me that she's four to five weeks. And I, I express. Well, typically at that point they don't even really hear heartbeats. They probably won't. Yeah, they probably won't be able to detect twins. Like two heartbeats. And she said, well, her mom, the religious one, works at a really prestigious fertility clinic in Florida and that they brought her in and they use like top of the line equipment and have said that as twins. And I'm like, well, I don't know, you know, medical equipment is being upgraded every day. So I, I guess maybe I'm. It's a weird thing to lie about. So sure, you know, Ugh.

[Candace]

You would think.

[Miley]

Yeah. After that revelation, we're all just kind of shocked. We haven't picked our job off the floor yet. It's just so crazy. So we decide that we are going to call it a night. They are going to go back to their place. We are going to process separately and they will come back the following weekend to like celebrate the wedding and all the things. We'll, we'll take it out.

[Candace]

Yeah, I forgot they're getting married on Wednesday.

[Miley]

I know. Oh my gosh. So they leave and we just really don't even talk about it that night, my husband and I, because it's just, where do you go from there? You know?

[Mackenzie]

Bonkers.

[Miley]

It's, it's so bizarre. So they leave, we do our separate thing. The next day Miley and I start texting back and forth. You know, I really did like her when she came over. So her and I are texting all day. We text throughout the week. We've found out that we have a lot of stuff in common and so we're really getting along and I'm excited to have a new sister in law and I have a really small family, so anybody that wants to be added to it, you know, it's a, it's a great thing. So we're really excited. And you know, he's not really had girlfriends up to this point, so we're happy for him too. It's just, it's a really exciting thing. And now we're adding kids to the family and we have young kids and so they'll all grow up around the same age and it's just really exciting. On Wednesday they say they get married. They do it at their apartment. Apparently it was not like a big fanfare. They just had one of her friends, that's an officiant come over and do it for Em. There's no ceremony, there's no witnesses. They said in Michigan you don't really need witnesses to sign the marriage certificate. Oh, I don't know the laws for marriage in Michigan. So we're just like, okay, fast forward to the weekend. We hang out, we go grab lunch, we go to topgolf. We're drinking and hanging out with the kids and she's kind of stepped into like that anti role with the kids, which was really exciting to see and they really do seem in love. And so she just kind of meshed well with our family at that point. So it was just really great. We were supposed to after topgolf meet her grandparents because they had flown from Florida to Michigan. So we were supposed to meet them because they are such a big part of their story and we were really excited to get to know them too. And they ended up having to cancel. I don't know if she ever really gave a reason for why, but they canceled. So that's fine. You know, it's getting late anyways. We're gonna go home, we're going to put the kids down and they're going to go out to a bar. So he doesn't have good track record with bars, you know, so they go out to a bar and I get a text around 3ish in the morning. And it wakes me up. And I. I get a text from her, from Miley, stating that Joe had cheated on her with another girl at a bar in his car. Again.

[Mackenzie]

Again.

[Miley]

Again. Well, I mean. Well, I can't say again because I guess the first time wasn't really cheating if they agreed to it, but.

[Mackenzie]

Well, that's okay.

[Miley]

But now it's cheating because they're married.

[Candace]

And they're no longer open.

[Miley]

And they are no longer open once they got married. They closed that. After he got. I should say after he got Brenda pregnant, they closed that down.

[Candace]

They were like, maybe we need to rethink.

[Miley]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Oh, my God.

[Miley]

Oh, my God. Yeah. So I'm like, girlfriend, annul that. Get out of this while you still can. You. You don't have to stay with him. Like, you guys have been married for less than a week at this point. Move on. You don't deserve this. Like, nobody deserves this, you know? And I'm like, team girl all the way. You. You deserve better. I know he's my brother in law, but screw that guy. That's gross. And girl right here. Yeah. And she's like, well, I just feel bad because of the twins. I'm like, no, that's his problem. You let him deal with that. You don't need to stick around. She tells me that she's going to sleep on it, they're going to talk in the morning, and that she'll get back with me at that point. So I'm like, well, all right, you know, I've said my piece, and at this point, it's on her. She texts me in the morning that they are talking, and she's just kind of keeping me updated on the things that Joe is saying to her, and he's apologetic and they've reconciled. Okay. I still think it's gross and it's kind of icky, but I'm like, well, you know, I guess everybody makes mistakes and who knows the circumstances of what was happening. I don't love it, but it's not my marriage, you know? So I'm like, okay, well, that's great. I'm. I'm glad if you're glad. A couple hours later, she sends me a text with a picture of her and a puppy. And she says that he bought her a puppy as an I'm sorry gift.

[Mackenzie]

What?

[Miley]

No, I'm like, what the hell are you thinking? You are about to be raising newborn twins in a state. I mean, granted, her family would be there, but, like, that's a lot. A puppy.

[Candace]

But she's Also about to move.

[Miley]

You're about to move now. And I said, you are going to move across the country from Michigan to Florida with a puppy, his cat, because he already had a cat. And then you're going to be bringing twins into this. It's just a lot like, are you sure that this is a good idea?

[Candace]

And now who knows who else given last night's ante?

[Miley]

Well, hell, who knows? And I'm, I'm like, this is crazy. You are going to be so stressed out. I, speaking from experience, I have two dogs and two kids and it's a lot, you know, it's so much. Maybe you want to reconsider the whole puppy situation. She's like, nope, he's mine now. And I'm like, well, okay, I've warned you sister, like, don't come crying to me in nine months when you're realizing how hard this is. Yeah. So they've reconciled, he's got the dog, they're all excited and things are great. And now her grandparents are in Michigan helping take care of everything. So again, he put in his lease at his apartment, put it in his 30 day notice. The grandparents pay off his lease, which I guess was really expensive. He wasn't super far into his lease, so it was a couple grand and they pay for it. They just write a check and take care of it.

[Mackenzie]

What was your relationship with the sister in law at this point? Like, are you guys, your friends and why are you texting so much?

[Miley]

Well, just because I knew that we weren't really going to have a chance to get to know each other in person. With them moving so far away, it was really just going to have to be kind of virtual, you know, except for holidays basically is when I knew we would see them. So, you know, I was really excited to have a new sister and I wanted to talk to her and get to know her and welcome her to the family. And she's asking advice like, I'm a first time mom, what should I get? And stuff like that. I'm like, oh well, I just went through this. Let me tell you all the things. I'm so excited, excited to talk about being a mom. So I'm like, buy this and get this and put this on your industry and you know, have you any heard any updates about the babies and blah, blah, blah.

[Mackenzie]

So you, you kind of had that in common.

[Candace]

You sound like you were so sweet and welcoming. Despite all, you're very much like, listen and don't judge. Which is yes, admirable.

[Miley]

And like, even though my Husband is like, what the frick is happening? I'm just like, it's all rainbows and butterflies. It's fine.

[Candace]

You know, sometimes that's the perfect balance. You need a little bit of a.

[Miley]

Works well. He's. He's very analytical, and I am just like, I just love everyone and it's fine.

[Candace]

So was he doubtful of this? Like, what was his feelings about everything?

[Miley]

He just thought it was so weird. He. He felt like something was off, but he couldn't put his finger on it. And so, I mean, he was, like, nice to her, obviously, and he was supportive, but he was just kind of at an arm's length. Didn't really know what was going on, but he felt weird, you know, Mentuition.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

Yeah. And he's really strong. I was really proud of him.

[Candace]

Sometimes you walk away from listening to our podcast probably stressed about your relationship or finding a relationship. I think connecting with a partner matters more than ever. And whether that's at the beginning of meeting someone new or in a long term relationship where you feel like you know them better than you know yourself and you trust them and you don't even think about it. There's this app called Paired that I find is very, very helpful with either creating new opportunities to learn about each other and connect with each other, or, I don't know, maybe to see how someone reacts to certain questions in the early stages. So you see if you're compatible and. Or if they're a dogfish. I don't know. Who knows? Sometimes it happens. Okay, so Paired is awesome. And I use it with John, my boyfriend, and it's kind of corny and we love it and we're. We get to answer the questions, basically. Okay, let me explain how it works. So Paired is an app that you both have, and it gives you personalized questions and quizzes and games to help you deepen your conversations. And it's also just fun. So, like the one we got today, it literally said, upload a picture of something or some. A time that you were proud of your partner. So I posted a picture of a show that my boyfriend had done, and he posted a picture of a show that I had done because we are both entertainment nerds and we need attention, but it was cute. And that was just like a nice thing to get to remember a good memory and feel proud of each other. And then other times it's a series of questions about intimacy. Maybe it was like, out of these three things, which would turn on your partner the most and we both got it wrong. It wasn't Even like Super PG 13, you know, it was like a compliment, a neck kiss or like doing a chore for them, you know, and we were like, wow, we gotta check in on how we, how we spice it up and get the mood going. But it was a great conversation that we both kind of laughed at where we were like, oh, well, obviously we would like all of these things, but why did you pick that one when I thought you would have picked that one? It's a safe space to have an open and honest discussion about your relationship. No faking it, no pretending, just genuine connection. And it's like a little time daily to connect with them. It's super quick. You can just do one thing a day. You can do more than one a day if you want. Just helps you communicate, discuss difficult topics. Maybe there's a topic you don't want to bring up on your own, but it comes up in Paired. So it's kind of like the, you know, oh, well, now that we're thinking about finances, let me tell you this thing that made me uncomfortable that I didn't want to say. We learn new things about each other, find new ways to spice up routine and overhaul. Just get to know each other, whether you're just a few dates in or have been together a long time. Find the time to connect with your partner and nourish your relationship. Start your year off right with the Paired app. It's easy and fun and it only takes five minutes a day. Head to paired.comdingdetectives to get a seven day free trial and 25% off if you sign up for a subscription. Just head to p a I-R-E-D.com datingdetectives to sign up today. It's so fun. Practice love every day with Paired, the number one app for couples.

[Miley]

So the grandparents are helping with all the things. She decides that she is going to go out to Florida early while he is finishing out his 30 days at his job. Miley is going to go out with her grandparents. They're going to set the condo up. They are going to get stuff for the babies and start like getting their room ready and all the things. And he will come out after he finishes his job because now he is getting his dream job in Florida and he'll start that.

[Mackenzie]

But everybody's on board right now. Like as of right now, we know that, like we are under the impression that everybody's on board. Brenda is saying, yes, I'm gonna give up the rights to the twins.

[Miley]

Yes, as Long as you pay for my apartment and you take these twins, I don't give a crap what you do, you know.

[Candace]

Brenda, get your bag. I guess.

[Miley]

Yeah. So I mean, you know, she's got to benefit from this too. And I'm sure it's traumatic for her to be 19 year old. 19 and you know, your baby daddy is married to someone else and it's just so like I feel for her to be 19 is a really scary time on its own. And then now you're pregnant with twins and. Yeah, like, and her family was probably really upset with her. So like, I sympathized with her as well.

[Candace]

Totally. She is also like, essentially they got like a surrogate situation. Yes, essentially, except for the hanky panky part.

[Miley]

Exactly. Because of the whole cheating situation. Even though her initial plan was to go to Florida with the grandparents early, she has backtracked and stated like, I don't know if I trust you. I think you and I should go out to Florida together at the end of your 30 days. So now she has decided that she is going to stay. Grandparents are apparently going to stay as well, which I just think is weird. But yeah, you know, like whatever. They're rich, I guess. They can do whatever the heck they want. Right. So they've decided that they're, they are going to stay until the end of the 30 days. So they are packing up the apartment, they're getting everything ready. Apparently the apartment complex manager reached out to them and said, you know, hey, we want you out by the first because we have to get the apartment ready for the next tenants. We have to like repaint and put down new carpet and all the things that they do. So she reached out to me and asked if she could stay with us from the 1st of July to like the 5th or 6th or something of that nature. And so we were thrilled because, you know, you're getting ready to move away. We don't know when we're going to see you again. So yeah, of course, come stay with us. That's what family does. We help people out. So they come and stay. They stated that they got a moving company, that grandparents were paying for it. They were going to fill up this pod and apparently this pod was going to be shipped from Michigan to Florida. And so, okay, you know, they didn't do any of the packing themselves. Apparently they come and stay with us for the whole week. And again, it's great. We are doing the whole fourth of July thing, watching the fireworks and hanging out with the kids. She's helping me Cook dinner. And my husband Dan and his brother Joe are reconnecting again. And so it's really, it's just kind of great. Again, we're not, we don't know when we're going to see him. So it's nice that we're all getting this time together before they leave for good. By the end of the week, when they are getting ready to leave, we're all kind of emotional because it's really sad, you know, My husband and his brother just reconnected and we're all pretty bummed out near the end of it. They're bummed out, we're bummed out. The kids, you could tell that they were like confused after they left, but they leave. They are driving from Michigan to Florida and they were supposed to go down and apparently stay with one of her friends for a couple days just to like introduce the two of them. The friend and now her new husband. And. But the friend said, well, you have this new dog and my kids. I, I don't want the dog around my kids. And oh no. So you can't stay with us. Sorry. So they have to get a hotel. And I'm like, well, why are you getting a hotel when you're supposed to have this condo in Florida?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

And she's like, well, well, my grandparents, they actually have the key to the condo and I forgot to get it from them before we left. And I'm like, I feel like that's a big thing to forget getting. But I mean, I guess in the midst of everything you're going through, like, I guess it kind of makes sense, you know, I don't understand it, but I'm forgetful. So things happen.

[Candace]

And the grandparents are back home, but it's not the same places where the.

[Miley]

No, they are still in Michigan.

[Candace]

Oh, they're still in Michigan. Okay.

[Miley]

They're still in Michigan. I guess. I don't. She doesn't really give a great explanation as to why they're staying in Michigan when their home is in Florida. So I thought it was odd, but again, whatever.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

So they are driving down, they're doing all the things. They're going to Disney World, they're going to like concerts. They're going and doing all of this extravagant stuff. They are hanging out with her sister who apparently is married to a rich like 80 year old man. What? I know. Whose kids are like way older than his new wife. And like I am eating this. This is like a soap opera and I am living for it. Okay? I am taking every bit of this and Just like, this is so crazy compared to my life, which is just so, like, yeah, you know, normal. And so I'm just, like, living for it. And every day is something new with them. So they are again, they're at the beach, they're shopping. They're going to fancy lunches and dinners. And, you know, I'm like, oh, well, good for them. They're getting all this out of the way before the kids come. And I'm thrilled. I'm happy for them. And while they are down there, they let me know that the grandparents were supposed to send the keys. Right. They're going to overnight it to them. Well, just kidding. Grandpa went into the hospital. He had a stroke in Michigan, where they are still at. And I'm like, oh, my God face.

[Candace]

She's skeptical.

[Miley]

Yeah, well, I'm like, well, oh, my God, that's so horrible. You guys just left, and now your grandpa's in the hospital. Like, this is horrible. And she knows that my grandpa had passed away the day that my twins were born. So, again, I'm sympathizing with her because I know how it feels to have one of the most important people in your life sick and not possibly be able to be there for the birth of your twins.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

She does say that they are going to release him after a couple days that he's been moved out of the icu and so he seems like he's doing okay. So they will be able to send the keys. It's just not going to be when they want it. So they're staying in a hotel again because they can't stay with a friend. And I'm like, well, like, why don't you guys, like, go to the realtor, see if, like, maybe the realtor has, like, a master key that they bought it from. Get, like, an air mattress. Like, why are you not trying to get into that house? If it were me, I would be tired of paying for a hotel, and I'd be doing everything I can to get into my new condo and get it set up. And the pod should be arriving soon. So, like, why are you not trying harder? That was really weird to me. But she explained it away every time, and I just went with it because, again, it's weird things to lie about. So sure, you know, Right. She did say that her and Joe were so close because in the beginning of her relationship, her dad passed away. I feel like that's important to throw in there for later. So hold on to that writing it down now. Grandpa is sick in the hospital. Dad has Passed away. Grandma cannot send the keys because she is in the hospital with grandpa, making sure he's okay and all the things. He gets released. She says that he's going to be fine, but we'll come back to that in a couple minutes as well. After about a week and a half ish of them being in Florida, my husband gets a call from the apartment complex in Michigan that they were supposed to be out of. And the apartment manager asks, you know, is Joe okay? And my husband is like, yeah, I think so. Why? And the manager had explained that we have been calling, we have been emailing, we have been texting, and Joe is just not responding to us. We went into his apartment to do the final inspection and it looked like they were in the middle of packing and something happened. All of his stuff is still there.

[Candace]

What?

[Miley]

Everything? Yes. And Dan is just kind of like, well, that doesn't make any sense because they hired movers.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

All of their stuff was supposed to be in a pod being shipped to Florida currently. And so he calls me first and I'm like, well, you need to call Joe. You need to call him because I, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to do with this. So he calls Joe and then while he is on the phone with him, Miley is texting me, oh, my God, I cannot believe this. The movers didn't do what they were supposed to do. They were supposed to pack up all of our stuff and put it in the pod. They took the money from my grandparents, but they never, they never like, finished, I guess. So now I don't know what we're going to do. And I'm like, oh, okay, so what are you going to do? Because all of his stuff is still in Michigan and you're in Florida. So brother in law, Joe is supposed to start his big boy fancy job at the end of August. It is July. We find out that the guy, I guess that's running the show at his new job gets Covid and they knew that Joe was in Florida, so they want Joe to fill in for this guy. And because Joe has experience doing the job that he was supposed to be doing, that would be an easy. Like you fill in for a week or two and then you come back and you start at the beginning of your contracted date in August.

[Candace]

Huh?

[Miley]

And I'm like, this is so messy. But again, every day is something new and I am living for it and I want to know everything. So I'm like, keep feeding me the information. So he Is supposed to start at the end of the week. And she is pissed because now that he is starting, she has to come all the way back to Michigan to pack all of his crap up all by herself. And she does not drive. Okay? She does not drive. So she is going to fly from Florida back to Michigan.

[Candace]

She can't drive. Like, she doesn't drive ever.

[Miley]

I don't know if she doesn't have her license or if she just doesn't have a car, but she does not drive. I have never seen her drive.

[Candace]

Okay?

[Miley]

So she is going to have to fly. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is wild. I am so sorry that you have to go through all this. This is such a chaotic way to start a marriage. And, like, I could not imagine.

[Candace]

It doesn't sound real, honestly.

[Miley]

It doesn't feel real. It's like a lifetime movie almost, you know?

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

So she's pissed because now she's going to have to come out and do it all by herself. A couple days go by and we find out that. Just kidding. Joe can't start at the end of the week because now not only does his boss have Covid, the person he was supposed to fill in for, the whole team has Covid.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, bless.

[Miley]

Yes. So now he does not start at the end of the week like they wanted him to. They actually want him to start at his actual contracted date, end of August, like originally planned. So now he can come back with her to Michigan to pack everything up.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Miley]

And at this point, my husband is like, no, something is off. This is not right. I don't know what's happening, but something is fake. There is something fake happening. And I'm like, no, it's all fine. They're just having a rough start to their marriage. I am so oblivious and oh, my.

[Candace]

God, I need to screenshot Mackenzie. She's, like, sipping on her drink with.

[Miley]

The straw, like, I know, I know. So they decide they are going to pack up and come back, and they are going to do the packing the right way. Okay? They are doing it the right way. So they come all the way back. They drive all the way back. It's a two day thing. On the way back, she finds out that her grandpa is back in the hospital, but now he's dead. What? Oh, God.

[Candace]

You did not sugarcoat that surprise.

[Miley]

All right, okay. He is deceased. And again, I am very sad because, like I just said, my grandpa passed away too, and apparently he helped raise her. And, you know, it's heartbreaking.

[Candace]

He's obviously very Involved? Yeah, he was kind of bailing them out completely.

[Miley]

But that's literally how she tells me. She calls me. Okay. And she never calls me. We text and that's basically it. So she calls me, I'm on my way to pick up my kids from daycare and she's like, my grandpa's dead. And I'm like, what the. Like, what do you mean he's dead? Like, what is happening? So that's so you got it the way I got it.

[Candace]

Grandma said.

[Miley]

Yeah, yeah. And my heart is just so broken for her. Like, it really is. Because at this point, again, I don't feel like anything is weird. I mean, things are kind of weird, but not in a way that I feel like there's red flags happening. It's just a bunch of weird crap. That's just unfortunate.

[Candace]

They're just drama. Some people you just are like, oh, they have stuff that follows them and there's always something.

[Miley]

And that's really what I thought it was. I just thought like, damn, you guys are just a mess, you know? But it's so much more. So they are driving back, they want to stay with us while they are packing up their apartment. And I'm like, well, you can, but it really doesn't make sense. Like, you guys were already staying in a hotel down in Florida. Like, why don't you just stay in a hotel closer? Because it's a three hour drive from Michigan to Ohio where we're living.

[Candace]

Yeah, I was gonna say if you were that close, then I guess they could have asked you to get the key or something, but you're not.

[Miley]

Like at one point when she thought she was coming back by herself, she was like, well, I'll just Uber back and forth from your place to his old apartment complex. And I was like, girl, that makes no sense. That is a lot in Uber fees.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, like you're already.

[Miley]

If you're going to be paying that much, you might as well just get a hotel. But she's telling me on the way back that now her grandma wants to cut her off because she's so stressed out with her husband passing away that she can't deal with the stress of everything that's going on in Miley's life. And I can't say I would, I would blame her. You know, she's just tired of paying for everything. So she doesn't know if grandma is going to pay for a hotel while they get everything out of his apartment. And I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, of course you can say it's gonna be a lot of driving for you guys. But now that Joe is coming back and he drives, I mean, you guys are just gonna be driving six hours a day. You know, that's. It's a lot, but it's manageable, I guess. So they decide that they are going to stay with us. I am going to take a little side tangent from here now.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Miley]

That ties in. Okay. So in the beginning, I told you that mother in law and I have a very strained relationship.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

She is not super close with my children because they weren't in the NICU for so long. She. They just didn't really get off on a great foot. She didn't come around us a ton. It was unfortunate, but it was just our normal. So it wasn't a huge deal. So when she found out that Joe and Miley were pregnant, she decided that she wanted to move down closer to Florida so that she could help them. And they were adamant that they did not want that. Oh. But she was adamant that she wanted to live in Alabama. I'm going to live in Alabama. You guys will still have your space. But I want to be closer to you guys so I can have an actual relationship with some of my grandchildren. And I was very hurt by this because you have not made this effort and you live 20 minutes down the road.

[Mackenzie]

Right?

[Candace]

I would.

[Mackenzie]

For your children.

[Miley]

Yes.

[Candace]

So nobody wants her around.

[Miley]

I know. No, no, they didn't. And it's just everybody was strained with her and she just kind of like beats the. You know, she just does the thing, her own thing, and it is what it is. But her and I are very strange. We get into this huge argument because while they are staying with us in the beginning of July, we find out that mother in law had opened credit cards in Joe's name and that Joe did not know about them until he opened credit Karma and found out. And he was pissed. And I am a mama bear. One thing about me is I'm nosy. The other thing is that I am gonna stand up for my people. And I was having none of it. I was so mad. So I confront her about it because not only did she apparently open credit cards in his name, she also told him, I am paying for your college. And then he graduates college and then he gets a big fat loan statement for $80,000. Yeah, yeah. And she says, no, I wasn't paying for your college. I took out loans for you and so now you have to pay those loans back.

[Candace]

That's not paying for the college, honey.

[Miley]

No, no, that Is. Yes. And then also he tries to tell me. And this part I kind of was like, he tries to tell us that she put him as a co signer on her mortgage and that he did not know about it. And I was like, that's not real. Because you have to be in person to sign for homes. Like she can't afford your signature with like the realtor and the notary and all things. Like she can't. And I was like, that doesn't make sense. And he was like, well, maybe I did sign stuff with her, I just don't remember.

[Mackenzie]

Or she told him it was something else.

[Miley]

Yes. And I was like, you would know if you were signing for a mortgage. It is the most boring situation you will ever go through. You would know if you were signing for a house. So that part I was like, absolutely not. I do not believe that. So her and I got in a big blow up fight about this because I was like, you have kind of screwed these brand new people, like these brand new little babies. Out of a lot of things. Their credit is shot or his is anyways his credit shot. He can't get a lot of like loans and all the things that he might need in the future. He might not be able to buy a new car. Like all the things. And so her night, huge fight over it and I kick her out. And so that further solidifies to her. I am no longer wanted in Ohio. I am moving to Alabama. So within about a week period, she also packs up her dogs, she packs up some clothes and she takes her TV and all the essentials and she moves to Alabama. She books it out of there and she is now looking for a realtor to list her home in Ohio 20 minutes down the road from us. Okay, so sliding back into the story now. So they wanted to stay with us. We said that they could stay with us while they're getting the apartment situation figured out. But now that mother in law is out, they said actually mother in law is going to let us stay in her empty home until it sells. And I'm like, yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

Mother in law asks if they can also pack up her home so that they're already packing his apartment. So you might as well just add a whole house onto it as well. They agree to it. You know, you're letting us stay here for free. The least we can do is pack up your home.

[Candace]

I don't know. She kind of put a bunch of loans in his name and credit cards in his name. It feels like she could let them stay in the apartment without any exchanges.

[Mackenzie]

It's the least you could do.

[Miley]

Yeah. And I'm like, well, why would you leave all of your crap in your home and go to a studio apartment? I still don't understand that. But you know, I don't think it's the least that they could do. But whatever. So they're staying there for free and they are packing up the apartment. They are supposed to get a U Haul. They are going to pack all of Joe's stuff into the back of the U Haul and then they are going to come to mother in law's house with the same U Haul, pack up all of the stuff that she wants, drive it back down to Alabama, drop her stuff off and then go to Florida with the rest of all of his stuff and put that in the condo. Okay. And everything that doesn't fit, they are going to put it in a storage unit here in Ohio. It's just a lot.

[Candace]

Okay. I'm taking notes.

[Miley]

I feel like you need a whole notebook at this point to keep track of everything that's going on. We did see them a couple times when they were 20 minutes down the road at mother in law's house. Throughout the time that they were staying there, we did see them off and on. You know, the relationship is still going well. We're still talking every day, her and I, Joe and Dan are still talking every day. The relationship is still going really well between all of us. I did have some issues with daycare, so they did offer to watch the twins for us, which I was really grateful for because you know, I, you know, we live paycheck to paycheck. We can't find someone else. We don't really have a ton of family to watch them. So when they offer, we're, we're like, that's great. You know, so they are watching the kids, they're taking them to the zoo, they're taking them to the park. And I'm like, well, this is just great. They're getting in practice that they're going to need for their twins. Well, she ends up telling me, by the way, we did find out that Brenda is not having twins. You are correct. It was just one baby. Oh yes. So they are just now having one baby. It's so much. Yeah, it's one baby and it's a boy. And we're like, oh, okay, we're getting a nephew. How exciting. Woohoo. Right? Taken off guard, but we're very excited. They also decide that they do not want to move to Florida anymore. They've decided that they want to stay in Ohio. When grandpa passed away, Grandma advised them that he had updated his will to add Joe to it. And he had left Joe a very big apartment complex in Florida. Florida.

[Mackenzie]

He gonna send him the keys to that?

[Miley]

Well, he forgot. Well, he's dead now, so I mean, who knows? And so Joe says, I don't really want to manage an apartment complex. Like that's not my dream and I don't know if I can handle that. And so he tells grandma, like, maybe you should tell the lawyer to start looking for people to buy the apartment complex. They did find someone and they were going to get it for like $7 million. So they were supposed to have $7 million coming to their account.

[Candace]

That would help. That would be good.

[Miley]

That would help. So he no longer wants to go to Florida now because he's getting $7 million into his account and he no longer wants his dream job. He wants to go back to school for his master's degree in communication, which is very ironic. Thank you. Thank you. He wants to get his master's degree and now whatever he can do is limitless. He does not have to make a choice because they are just going to have the 7 mil and they can do whatever they want. They do decide, like I said, that they want to move here. And so I'm like, well, at least you'll have family around. I will help you. Dan will help you. Like, we will do whatever we can.

[Candace]

Had you guys met Brenda or had anybody other than a couple?

[Miley]

I have seen no pictures of her.

[Candace]

Interesting.

[Miley]

I have seen no ultrasounds and I cannot find Brenda on social media anywhere.

[Candace]

Interesting.

[Miley]

Also, Miley, the only social media she has is Instagram. So I'm thinking like, well maybe this is what the young kids do. Like maybe social media isn't like a thing anymore now, you know, like I'm an old grandma. Like maybe, maybe social media is just not the hip thing anymore. So at the time I didn't think it was weird. Looking back, I think it's weird, obviously and huge red flag, but at the time I was like, well, maybe this is what the kids do. So I had never met her, mother in law, had never met her. We have still not met the grandparents. Well now grandma, they found ways to keep canceling on us. And then before, after he passed away, she went back to Florida. Grandma went back to Florida. So they now decide that they want to stay. They are getting the $7 million. Soon they start looking at multimillion dollar homes in Our area. And they are wanting us to go with them to look at these homes because we have twins and we will know what like a good layout is and we can give insight. And I'm like, I think, okay, sure, whatever. Like, I think that's what your realtor probably could do. But you know, we want to support you, so. Sure. We started looking at these houses. I mean, they are extravagant. They. One of them had like a batting cage in the basement. Holy crap.

[Mackenzie]

Mole.

[Miley]

Yes. Yes. And one of them had like a bowling alley. One of them was like stocked with a full bar. Like, extravagant. I have never seen anything like it.

[Candace]

I don't like the decision making processes on, on Joe there.

[Miley]

And so I'm trying to reason with her because neither do I. I'm like, okay, you guys are. I don't, I don't want to say only seven mil, but you're only getting seven million dollars and then you're looking at like a four million dollar home. Yeah, that's crazy. Nobody's working. Like, what you should do is get like a cheaper home. That's still. You can still get a nice little, nice house. Yeah. I'm like, you can still get a really n. Invest the hell out of that money. So like, you guys don't have to work if you don't want to, you know.

[Candace]

Oh, they needed you. I'm so glad you were there. But I hope they listened.

[Miley]

But they didn't listen.

[Candace]

Of course.

[Miley]

They. They start dragging us to all of these houses and I'm like, this just. I just think you should scale it back. But nobody wants to listen to mama over here. You know what I mean? I'm just old and with kids and nobody gives a crap. There's an old married woman with kids and I don't know jack squat about anything. Mother in law finds out about this, that they are looking at homes and she is pissed. She is so mad. She just sold her home. Like it's officially been sold. And she is real pissed because she just moved her whole life there to be closer to them. And just kidding. We're actually staying in Ohio. So she blames me. It is my fault.

[Mackenzie]

How is it your fault?

[Miley]

Because I have influenced them to stay here.

[Candace]

Oh, boy. Wow.

[Mackenzie]

Wow.

[Miley]

I know, I know.

[Mackenzie]

You're a traitor.

[Candace]

Maybe she shouldn't have just up and moved in a week. Like that's where he's getting this impulsive.

[Miley]

Yes. So officially her home has sold. They obviously can no longer stay there. They want to know if they can come back and stay with us. Of course. Just like I told you the last time, you're welcome. You have nowhere to go. The money hasn't hit your bank account yet. Absolutely. Come stay with us. Now let me say I live in a very small home. It is like maybe a thousand square feet and it's a three bedroom, one bath. So I'm cramming my kids in one bedroom, they're cramming themselves in the other bedroom and it's just chaos. But again, we're happy that they're there. We want this relationship. We're, you know, thrilled that they have asked us and are going to continue to get closer. And it's just, you know, rainbows and butterflies and sunshine and all the things. They were supposed to have a baby shower and so her and I are like helping plan this baby shower. It's supposed to be at this really fancy hotel in Ohio and all of his friends are supposed to come and her family is supposed to fly out and this was supposed to be a really bright spot for them after grandpa passed away. But then I find out that Joe has told all of his friends that Miley is the one pregnant because he is too embarrassed to tell everyone that he got 19 year old Brenda pregnant. Oh no, no, no. Yeah. And she's pissed. Miley is pissed. And I'm like, what are you gonna do at a baby shower when you're supposed to be so many months along with his kid and you get there and they're all like, you're not pregnant, what are you gonna do with that? And she's like, well, I don't know what we're gonna do. I want him to tell everyone, but I understand. It's so embarrassing. I don't want him to have to tell everyone. But like also eventually people are gonna find out.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

And I'm like, yes, of course people are going to find out. You need to tell everyone. So he apparently tells everyone. He sends out the text. I'm so sorry to lie to you. I'm so embarrassed. Miley is not the one pregnant. I got a 19 year old pregnant. I was making bad decisions. We're adopting the kids and they're, they're going to be ours. And all the things.

[Candace]

I'm so glad. I thought you were going to say that she wore like a pregnant belly to the shower.

[Miley]

Wouldn't that be so horrible?

[Candace]

I was ready for it.

[Mackenzie]

Could you imagine? I would die.

[Miley]

I know. Oh my goodness. But she tells me the day before the baby shower that they have to cancel. Her whole family has Covid so Even though her whole family flew out to Ohio and they were supposed to the baby shower. They all have Covid. Everyone's getting Covid. Covid for you. Covid for you. Covid for you. You all have Covid. So they are canceling the baby shower. So now we didn't even need to tell everyone that I wasn't the one that's pregnant. So, like, I can't believe that we just told all of our friends that I'm not the one pregnant because we had to cancel. Like, what the hell? And I'm like, this is so wild. I forgot to mention. And I'm sorry, I should have added this in.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Miley]

We did. Because we lived in such a small space. We all were getting so sick of each other because, like, you could tell, like, we want our space back. They want their own space. They're just married, of course, living in.

[Mackenzie]

A small area and, you know, even though you have your own little space, it's like, it can be really tight and just feel chaotic.

[Miley]

So they did end up moving out and getting an Airbnb. Apparently their money did hit their 7 mil. So they're renting a fancy ass Airbnb. And we're like, okay, so we were not staying together at the time of the baby shower being canceled. Okay, she cancels the baby shower. She sends out the text messages to everyone. And I had never got a baby shower invite. She just said, well, we only sent it to the people that, like, we don't talk to every day, you know? And I'm like, well, that. That's fine, you know, I already know where it's supposed to be. And so cool. So what they could not cancel, though, is the gender reveal balloon. But obviously, of course, I already knew it was a boy. So she sends me a picture of the balloon and she's like, oh, my God, we're going to post our reveal tonight on Instagram. You'll have to keep an eye out to look out for it. I want you to see it. It's going to be so cute. And I'm like, okay, this is awesome. I'm so excited to see everybody's reaction to it. This is when things start to go a little crazy. More crazy than they've already been. So she posts on Instagram, they have this cute little video where they're, like, doing the confetti thing. They, like, pop the confetti, and it's, like, blue, but in her caption she says, surprise. It's twins.

[Mackenzie]

Oh.

[Miley]

And this is where I am like, bullshit.

[Candace]

What no.

[Miley]

So she texts me after I see it and she says, we really wanted to surprise you. It is twins. And I said, girlfriend, I was surprised when you came to my table in May and told me that he got a 19 year old pregnant and everything else. I was surprised. I am done with surprises. Yeah, we don't need anymore. We're good. I am tapped out on. I'm tapped out. I don't want any more surprises. My little heart cannot handle this. This is weird.

[Mackenzie]

So it is twins or it's not twins?

[Miley]

So it was twins and then it wasn't twins and now it's twins again.

[Candace]

So did she, she told you it was not twins? Just as a fun little surprise?

[Miley]

Yes. So she told me it was like not twins. I think they were in Florida at this point. She said, oh, it's confirmed. It's just one baby. You were right. When they went back and did the ultrasound at the correct amount of time, eight weeks or whatever, they found out that it was only one. And I'm like, okay.

[Candace]

Because she was she bored or something. She needed more entertainment. I mean, their life is wild. Okay, all right.

[Miley]

Still to this day, I still do not understand everything. Still to this day, after three years, I. There's a lot that does not make sense. So surprise, it's twins. And I see somebody post in her comments, oh my God, I bet your son is so excited to be a big brother. I screenshot the shit out of that.

[Candace]

Oh my goodness.

[Miley]

Because not, I'm sorry, surprise, it's twins. And she's telling me this whole time that she is a first time mom and actually she has a son. And I'm like, oh no, I am nosy. I am going to get to the bottom of this. So again, I screenshot it. She calls me almost immediately after I screenshot that. And I'm not going to tell her that I know. Okay? So she says, oh my God, I had to turn off the comments because my aunt got me confused with my cousin. And so I just had to turn off the comments. And I'm like, I bet you did, girlfriend. I bet you did have to turn those comments off. So she turns them off and she doesn't post anything else about her twins, quote, unquote, twins on Instagram anymore. So this leads me down a rabbit hole of who the hell are we spending our time with? Yeah, and who the hell have I let watch my children for weeks on end? Because I am not talking like a day here and a day there in total, my daycare was closed for like 10 weeks that year and she watched them for a big chunk of this.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

So I am spiraling out of control. I realize that she is logged into HBO Max on my TV and I actually still have her login and I still watch stuff on there. Don't tell her.

[Mackenzie]

I didn't hear that. I don't know.

[Miley]

Hear what? You know. So while I'm in her HBO Max though, I see her maiden name and I realized that I had never learned her maiden name. So I am doing all the things. I think Mackenzie would be very proud of me. I am on the Google machine and I am doing all the things. I am talking. I am on her Pinterest from like 2015. I am on her like Twitter that she hasn't used in years. I have her grandparents phone numbers, their addresses. Her dad is not dead. That is very much alive.

[Candace]

Oh, okay. Where is he?

[Miley]

I have no effing clue on that. Still. I still have no idea about her dad. All I know is that he is very much alive at the time that I am doing all of this searching. I find her aunts on Facebook and lo and behold, wouldn't you know, in 2017 she has a pregnant belly and they are at her baby shower and it has her name on like the backdrop in the picture. She's the one pregnant. Miley is pregnant and they are having her baby shower and her aunt is like arm around her, smiling for the picture and I'm like this bitch. I knew it.

[Candace]

Oh my gosh.

[Miley]

I freaking knew it. I knew something was weird after that post. So. And this is all within like two or three days that I'm finding all of this out.

[Candace]

So her son is like what, four?

[Miley]

So at the time I think he was like six. Six or seven.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Miley]

Yeah. And like my question is like where is your son? What is the point of all of this? Is there a pregnant 19 year old? Is your grandpa really dead? I have, I'm talking. I have her grandparents address in Florida. It ain't no damn multi million dollar home. Okay? I have Zillowed that crap. I know it's not a multi million dollar home. Like I.

[Mackenzie]

You will be spilling all your secrets. Zillow. Zillow says all the skeletons.

[Miley]

I love me a good Zillow listing, you know?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I. I'm talking.

[Miley]

I found out that her grandpa Paul, when he was alive because I really do think he passed away, but I don't think it's. When she said that he had a freaking like pigeon club that he was in where they all like Raised pigeons and erase them. I had the damn name for that. I knew everything.

[Candace]

I love this. Okay, wait, so I'm going through what you've discovered so far. Yes, dad, that she said had died early in their relationship is alive.

[Miley]

Yes.

[Candace]

Miley was pregnant in 2017. We don't know what happened with that.

[Mackenzie]

Nope.

[Candace]

Grandparents are not owners of a multi million dollar home. Okay. And likes or liked pigeons.

[Mackenzie]

Still never got the key to the condo or the apartment complex.

[Miley]

Yeah. Yep, yep. And so it's all just kind of now the red flags from the last couple months are really starting to click into place for me on top of all of this information that I have found. And I at this point, again, I'm a petty bitch and I am not going to let her know for one second that I know all of this. I am going to see how far she's going to take this. And I sure as hell do. I sure do. I am pissed. So I find all of us out in August. Okay. Now with twins, apparently the 19 year old Brenda is due in December. That is her due date. But with twins they don't let you go your full term, they deliver you early. So she is supposed to be having those babies in November. So I am going to see how far she takes it and how long it takes for her to tell me the truth. And if they do tell me the truth and I, I want to know all the things. So I'm starting to talk to my boss at work about this who is kind of like a second mother to me and I'm like, I think she is going to kill these babies off because like, you know, you've watched Catfish on mtv. Like when something crazy happens, they kill somebody off.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

Or somebody gets in a car accident or something crazy happens and like her dad's already died, her grandpa's already died. She's gonna kill these babies off.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

Okay. Now I want to remind you I am mainly getting all of my information from Miley. However, Joe is giving a lot of the same information to Dan, just not as in much detail.

[Mackenzie]

I'd love to ask what Joe is contributing to this story.

[Miley]

Yes. So he is still giving details, but not nearly as much details. And again, they are not. My brother in law and husband are not super close so they're not talking every day like Miley and I are.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

So he's just getting snippets.

[Candace]

Did you think that Joe was being scammed or that Joe was involved?

[Miley]

I was really unsure. My husband was on the side of, I don't think that he would lie to me like this. So I think maybe he is getting scammed as well.

[Candace]

Okay. That's what it seems like because he seems like an innocent guy that just came out of his Fortnite cave and got preyed on.

[Miley]

Big old dumb dog, you know, A big old dumb. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm really unsure at that point of what's happening. I just have no idea. I don't want to think the worst and that he is lying to us too, but I just don't know what extent to us he's lying about it. You know what I mean? So we find all of this out in September. Ish. We start to distance ourselves a little bit. Husband and I have discussed everything that I found and he's also like, I knew that all of this was a lie. I just didn't know what was a lie. And he's like trying to rack his brain like, why did she marry him? Like, it's not like our family is rich. We don't come from money. We live paycheck to paycheck. It's not like Joe is rich. He just graduated college. He's just starting out like. So my thought was, you know, she had a lot of dental issues. So like maybe she married Joe for like the health and dental insurance.

[Candace]

But then to take on adopting the kid with someone else, like she's.

[Miley]

That's a lot. I know. And so I'm like, well, I, I just don't, I, I don't know. And so things are as normal because I'm not telling them anything. They are looking at Teslas. They are still looking at multi million dollar homes. They're staying the super fancy Airbnb. They're still living. Life is normal. And so are we.

[Candace]

This is insane.

[Miley]

Yes. Really is.

[Mackenzie]

I have so many questions, but I'm gonna wait till the end of class.

[Miley]

So like I said in September, I'm starting to distance myself. I know that this is all going to come to an end soon. I tell my boss, well, I have to. Yes. Because you can't just pull twins out of thin air.

[Mackenzie]

Or not twins.

[Miley]

Obviously she, you know, something's going to happen with them. It's going to be traumatic. I do want to know that my brother in law knew that we had a stillbirth. My first baby we lost. It was very traumatic. It was very sad.

[Mackenzie]

Sorry.

[Miley]

Oh, thank you very much. It was very traumatic. So hearing her say all of the things of like, you know, what could possibly happen. I knew she was going to do it. And I knew that was going to affect me. So again, I knew that I needed to take that space. So her and I are not texting as much. I am starting to mentally prepare myself because we're getting close to November, that something is going to go down. And then that's when it happens. I get a call on my way out of work one day and she is sobbing hysterically. And I am laying it on thick. Oh, my God. What's wrong? Even though I'm knowing. Here we go. She is falling. Oh, my God. Brenda's in the hospital. They think that she's going to lose the babies. She killed them off.

[Mackenzie]

The babies.

[Miley]

Exactly what I freaking knew was going to happen. No, I'm sad.

[Mackenzie]

Like, that is so rude. Like, trigger warning. Killing off fake babies.

[Miley]

Yes. Yeah. And what a hateful thing.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

So awful.

[Candace]

It reminds me of, like, we've had so many dogfish who lie about military service and then to, like, say it to people who actually have trauma from that or you exact, like, have gone through that. It's just so. It's gross, disgusting.

[Miley]

It's like it takes a special kind of person to do something like that. You know what I mean? Like, you are mentally unwell, if you are able. Because her and I had talked extensively on this, by the way. She knew the story of my daughter's passing and, like, how we were in the hospital and all of the things. And so she calls me crying, oh, my God. Brenda's in the hospital. They think the babies are going to pass away. They said that her placenta is pulling away from her uterus. My sister is an OB nurse. She has delivered multiple babies by herself. So after this phone call, I call her immediately and I am like, sister, here's the details.

[Mackenzie]

Tell me.

[Miley]

Yes, exactly. I'm like, I need you to tell me every single thing you know about placental abruption. I need to know everything and I need to know how long they will keep you in the hospital, if your babies will make it, you know, like, if they will release you. All of the things she, you know, obviously they're not going to release you. They're going to keep you. Yeah, this is like emergent situation. They would probably do like a C section and take the kids and all the things. Like, this is not something that you are walking out of the hospital that day on. Well, Miley is telling me later that night, oh, yeah, they are actually releasing Brenda is not what they thought it was. She wasn't actually seen at the time that they said that by an ob. She was just seen by an emergency room doctor, so she's leaving the hospital.

[Mackenzie]

So she didn't lose the babies?

[Miley]

Not yet. And so I'm like, oh, you know what? Don't. Don't you remember that my sister, she delivers babies basically for a living? I talked to her, and that's not a thing. They will not let Brenda leave if they even suspected this.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

And she says, well, you know what? You're right. I did just find out that she didn't get discharged, that they are admitting her. I want to do further observation. I'm like, oh, well, you really switched that story very fast. She Shit real fast.

[Candace]

Yeah, the doctor texted me just now.

[Miley]

So I'm just going with. I'm like, oh, that's great. I'm glad that they're gonna keep her for observation. I love this. You can never be too safe in a situation like this again. Laying it on thick. I want her to think I'm on her side. Oh. She stays in the hospital for a couple of days. Supposedly they go back to Michigan because that's where she's supposed to be having the babies and is in the hospital in my hometown. Back in my hometown.

[Candace]

Is that where your sister lives?

[Mackenzie]

I was gonna say something. Oh, okay.

[Candace]

I'm gonna say, send her up to.

[Miley]

The floor, freaking nurses lounge, and start asking all the nurses about this girl. No, that would have been amazing, though. But I had. She's in my hometown. She's in the hospital there, and they're keeping her for observation. I get a call again after I'm leaving work again. She's crying again. Oh, my God. She's bleeding heavily now. And so, like, what happens if she does lose the babies? What do they do? I know that you've been thinking through this. So, like, will they just, like, cremate them there? Will they just like, Like. And I, like, I still have, like. This is burned into my brain. This is horrible. So even though that I know it's fake, it is absolutely taking me back to that place where the doctor came in and left all of the funeral home information for me. And so I'm starting to cry. And I think she thinks I'm crying because she's crying, but really I'm crying because, like, my heart is killing me, you know?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Candace]

That is so sad.

[Miley]

And so we get off the phone, and I'm calling my husband. I am, like, bawling. And at this point, he's like, I think I'm going to say something. And I'm like, don't say anything yet. Let's continue to let this ride out and if something doesn't change like by the end of the week or whatever, we'll just like call them on their, you know. Cuz how much more of this can I really take? I don't know. So she says that she's bleeding really heavily. She texts me later and says it was a undetected UTI and that is common in pregnancies.

[Mackenzie]

Are uti.

[Miley]

Yeah. Undetected. That she's had it this whole time while she was pregnant and so now she's having kidney failure. Okay. What?

[Candace]

And we need to get the medical detectives in here. That's our sister pod. And they, they look at medical versions of Join us. I need some doctor back in this story up. Because I don't know.

[Miley]

And at that point I'm like, I don't really know if that's a thing. Like I don't know. I don't know about all the specifics but whatever, you know, I know it's all fake anyways.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Miley]

So she's like, but they do think that they are going to have to deliver the babies sooner rather than later. And I'm like, you know what? I really want to be there for you guys. We are going to drop our kids off with my mom and we are going to drive the three hours and we are going to come sit with you. We know how hard this is. We want to be there for you. Because brother in law was not there for my husband while we went through our situation. But again he was a young college student so we didn't blame him. And I still don't blame him to this day. And so I'm like, so we want to drop everything. We're going to call into work tomorrow. It was like the middle of the week and I'm like, I want to come be there for you. We're going to come sit there. We will be there tonight. Text me what you want for dinner. We will pick it up on the way there. No, no, no, don't come. Brenda does not want visitors. And I said no, we're not going to visit Brenda. I, you know, Brenda's business is Brenda's business. But I want to be there for you. How can we best be there for you? No, don't come. It's a really stressful time. We don't want you here. We. We don't think we can handle it. And I'm like, no, but we're coming. We're. We're dropping the kids off and we're coming. And she's like, no, no, we can't handle this. And the whole time we're going back and forth, I'm at a winery with a girlfriend. Like, obviously we're not going, right? Like, oh. So I'm like, I'm like, really playing into it at this point with her. And we're at a winery and I'm getting wine drunk because this is crazy. And I'm eating at the food trucks and getting my jam on with the live music, and my husband's at home, kids, while I am drinking all the things, I start to sober up and I realize, you know, like, I'm good to drive. And it's starting to get late and I have work the next day, so I leave. On the way home, my husband calls me and he is crying. Now, again, Dan is a very blue collar man. He is not a crier. Emotion is not his thing. So hearing him cry was very upsetting. And I am, like, already pissed off about the whole situation. So now I'm on, like, level 10. What's going on? What's happening? And he says, my mom just text me.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Miley]

My mom just texted me to leave Miley and Joe alone and to get my balls out of your purse. And that I have ruined this family.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, oh.

[Miley]

And that I need to leave them alone in their time of crisis. And I'm like, I find it odd that your family wouldn't want you to be there for your family. So now I'm like, well, is mother in law. Mother in law in on this? Yeah.

[Candace]

Is the wicked witch controlling everything?

[Miley]

Yes. And so I'm like, well, how far does this really freaking go? And so he texts him back and he's like, you know what? Like, just leave me alone. We're. We're done with all of this. We're cutting off all communication. He sends a group chat to Miley, to Joe, to myself, to mother in law. Basically the justice. Leave us the hell alone. We'll leave you the hell alone. And that was that. So everybody was just like, okay. They text back and they said, okay. All of them, okay, okay, okay.

[Candace]

Wow.

[Miley]

Yeah. And I get home and he's, you know, he's really tore up about it because this is really the only family that he has. And now he's like, going, no contact with him. And it's, it's just really sad. And my heart aches for him still to this day. Seeing him upset that way, it was just, it was really heartbreaking because he's such a tough guy and crying Is just, it's not his thing.

[Candace]

And you guys were really just doing your best, like trying to help and keep everybody happy and supportive.

[Miley]

They didn't know that we knew it was fake. So to them it really did look like we were just wanting to support them.

[Mackenzie]

That's right.

[Miley]

What?

[Candace]

You're so right. I didn't even think about that.

[Miley]

Yeah, so like, you're mad at us because we want to support you. You don't know that. We know you're a bunch of lying ass bitches. So, you know, it's just, it was really upsetting at that point. We do go no contact. We don't hear from them. It's like late August, I want to say early September. I mean, it all happened really quick. Sorry. Brenda was in the hospital for like one week and like we had texted for the extent of the week and then at that point we went no contact.

[Candace]

Were you on, on the social media still or did you get blocked?

[Miley]

She did block me after he sent that text message. She blocked me almost immediately after the text message came out. And again, up to that point she hadn't posted anything about pregnancy or kids or, you know, anything. But she sure was sending out baby shower registries and wanting people to buy her stuff. And she sent me the list and all the things. It was. Yeah, like I bought her twin stuff, of course, like clothes. I bought her like two of everything because it's a freaking adorable to see two kids dressed the same. It's adorable. So yeah, so nothing on Instagram but baby registries. We go no contact around December ish of that year. So 2022 still mother in law, I'm thinking, kind of feels remorseful. So she sends out like a vague apology to Dan. She basically states that Miley is the one that made her text Dan all of those really nasty things that she kind of was saying that we were harassing her essentially and that mother in law was really upset that we were harassing them. And she did state that they lost the twins. It was very sad. But that Miley was pregnant. She is pregnant and she's also due any day now and. Oh wow. Yeah. And I'm like, any day now that could. Like, what does that mean? Does that mean like next week? Does that mean two months from now? Like, what does that mean? So my nosy ass. Remember I found all of her family on Facebook. So I do a little Facebook messaging. Her aunt, the one with the picture of her pregnant. Because if you've lied to me, I now want your whole family to know that you are lying about something this serious.

[Candace]

Your family too. They're your family. Just trying to stick together.

[Miley]

Yeah. So I send out her aunt a message and it was along the lines of, oh my God, I heard that Miley and Joe lost the twins. That's so sad. But I did hear that she's pregnant. I'm so happy for her. But because of the estrangement between Joe and Dan, like, I don't know if she would be receptive to talking. Could you please just let her know that I'm thinking of her and that I love her kind of thing.

[Candace]

Oh, you're good.

[Miley]

Like, thank you. Because again, I want them to know that she's a big fat liar who lies. So she doesn't message me back, but her mom messages me and says, do you know Miley? And then immediately blocks me. What?

[Candace]

Wait, whose mom? Whose mom?

[Miley]

Miley's mom? Yeah, Miley's mom immediately blocks me after she sends that message. I don't know why. I still, I don't know. She. So I don't know if that is actually ran by Miley. And like, I don't know. So after she sends that message on Facebook, she blocks me. I get a text message maybe 30 minutes later from Miley. Hey, my aunt said that you reached out. Thank you so much for your concern. Like, yeah, we lost the babies and it's very sad, but I am pregnant and I'm so excited and I'm, I'm having a boy too. And so now that's kind of how we're coping with the loss of our twins is, you know, getting excited for another baby. And again, I'm going in with it. I'm like, oh yeah, that's great. So like, what are your plans? And blah, blah. And she is like, you know, I'm not doing a day now. But she wouldn't give me a date, she wouldn't send me an ultrasound, she would do nothing. And I was really just trying to get all of that out of her. So finally when I got out, as much as I felt like I was going to get from her, information wise, I just called her on her. So I'm just gonna read you my text message to her.

[Mackenzie]

She got the recipes.

[Miley]

I have a whole photo album on my phone called our last name. Family drama with all of this saved in there. So my text message, listen, I do not appreciate how things went down. Dan and I welcomed you and Joe into our home. We had you around our children. We never asked you to help us pay bills. And we were Nothing but kind to you. However, someone reached out to mother in law and had her text Dan to leave Joe alone in a really disgusting way. I understand needing space while everything in quotations was happening, but you couldn't just tell me question mark. All we wanted to do was be there for you in your quotation marks time of need, because that's what family does. We've actually been through this, so we know the importance of family and understand what it feels like to lose a child. Miley, I know that there was no Brenda. I called all of the hospitals in my hometown and they confirmed it because I did. I called all three hospitals in my hometown and asked if there was a Brenda last name there and they said no. I know the twins weren't real. I've known for a really long time. I'm not sure what your end game here was. I think it's best if we continue to not speak because this is just too much drama. Never in my life have I experienced this level of drama, and frankly, it's exhausting. Good luck with everything. Please relay this information to Joe as well. So this is her response, and it is so aggravating to me. All right, I understand how you feel. I won't argue or anything. I completely understand and respect your decision. Happy holidays, and please do not reach out to my family anymore saying that you care. I respect that you guys don't want anything to do with Joe and I, but please return that respect and don't reach out to my family anymore. And that was it. That's the end of that text message.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, she didn't.

[Miley]

No.

[Candace]

But she didn't confirm anything.

[Miley]

Exactly. While her and I are talking and these text messages are going back and forth, Joe is texting Dan. He tells Dan, I know that Miley and Candace are talking again. I am so embarrassed, and I hate to ask this, but I was in a car accident last night. I was back in Ohio for a job interview and then went out with friends to the bar afterwards and wrecked my car at the bar again. And I wrecked my car. And I wouldn't ask if it was an emergency, but can I stay with you? And Dan says, hell no. Take your $7 million and go get you an apartment complex.

[Candace]

So is he. Did he get kicked? Wait, I'm confused. Why does he need to stay with him?

[Miley]

Because his car is wrecked and he is three hours away from.

[Candace]

Okay, okay, I'm. Got it, got it, got it.

[Miley]

Yeah. Because last we knew, Joe and Miley were still in Michigan where she was supposed to be Having these babies and that they never came back down to Ohio. So he was here in Ohio for a job interview apparently, and he needed a couch to sleep on. And so my, my husband was like, hell no. Take that $7 million and go buy yourself an apartment complex.

[Mackenzie]

Shove it up your ass.

[Miley]

Yeah, basically. And he never says anything back after that. That you just fast forward a little bit to April of the following year. I think it's 2023 at that point. And we get an Easter basket from my mother in law for the twins. And it has a handwritten letter attached to it. And so I don't wait for Dan to get home from work. I read it and it was basically, you know, it was all fake. I know it was all fake. They got $20,000 from me because she sold her house. And so they took $20,000 from mother in law. And they also racked up $20,000 in credit card debt in his name. He moved in with the son, Miley's son, Miley's baby daddy. And Miley moved into an apartment with them. So when he was supposed to be in Michigan because these twins were supposed to be born, he was actually living with baby daddy son Miley. He was sleeping in. Joe was. Yes.

[Candace]

Joe was living.

[Miley]

Yes. So Joe apparently, Joe apparently is sleeping in one bedroom and Miley, Miley's baby daddy and her son are all sleeping in the other bedroom.

[Candace]

What.

[Miley]

What the hell is that about?

[Candace]

Wait, and you're reading this in an Easter letter?

[Miley]

Yes. It's bizarre. And she like goes on to say, like, Miley is never pregnant. There were no twins. She got $20,000 out of me. They racked up $20,000 on his credit cards. Yeah. Basically that. It was all fake.

[Candace]

I don't even know what to ask.

[Mackenzie]

I, I don't know.

[Miley]

I, I don't know what to tell you. It's crazy.

[Mackenzie]

So there's no babies.

[Miley]

There's no babies.

[Mackenzie]

So what was what? Like what, what's the reason?

[Miley]

So I will say, I know it's so wild. We reach out to mother in law. It's been long enough. We really do want to reconcile the relationship. My, my kids don't have a ton of people in their life already, so it's important for them to have their grandparents. As many as, you know, as many people that can love them in their life as possible is important. So we mother in law and I decide to go sit down for lunch to kind of hash everything out because her and I had got that huge argument. So we go, we sit down and it really was nice. It was a nice conversation. I apologize for my part because I know that I'm kind of an instigator about certain things. She apologized for kind of being a.

[Mackenzie]

I'm sorry that I know things.

[Miley]

So we're sitting down and we're having lunch and apologizes.

[Candace]

She still living in Alabama or did she move back?

[Miley]

Oh, no, I'm sorry. She did move back. She ended up buying another home, literally in the same neighborhood, just down the road from her old house that she sold.

[Candace]

So she was living near you guys this whole no contact period?

[Miley]

Yes. So this whole no contact. She is back close to us, about 20 minutes down the road again. Gotcha. So during lunch, she informs me, again, you know, all of it was fake. Blah, blah, blah, blah. They got divorced. I remember her specifically stating that they had went to the courthouse, Miley and Joe, to get divorced, and that because there were no kids and there was no, like, assets between them, that it was like a really easy process. That's what Joe had told mother in law. Okay. Then she says something to the effect of, I'm so glad that now we can all just sweep all of this under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. And I said, no, ma'am. No, no, no, ma'am. Nope. You owe my husband an apology. You were nasty to him and you are not going to speak to him again that way. You owe him an apology. And so does brother in law. And so if you want to repair the relationship, that is on you guys, I am not going to facilitate that for you. Yeah, you need to take care of that. So she agrees. So brother in law Joe reaches out to Dan and is like, I want to apologize. Can we all go out to dinner? I have to watch the kids. Of course, I never get to do the fun stuff. Wait, no.

[Candace]

I would have wanted to go to that dinner so bad.

[Miley]

I know. And I tried to find a babysitter. I tried so hard. Nobody was available. I was freaking pissed because again, I'm so nosy. I want to know.

[Candace]

That would have been like a Real Housewives episode.

[Miley]

Yeah, I know. So they. The three of them go, they sit down and have dinner, and I just. I still have no answers. And brother in law did say, like, yeah, it was all fake. His reasoning, I guess, to what the whole point was, was we just wanted. I just wanted a family so bad that if I thought if I just kept lying about it, eventually it would happen. And I'm like, what?

[Mackenzie]

He's manifesting?

[Miley]

Yeah, that's what he's trying to do. And I'm like, it doesn't work that way.

[Candace]

He knows how babies get made.

[Miley]

Geez, Op, you big dumb dog. It doesn't work like that. And so my husband is again, he's not like an emotional guy and he doesn't really care about things, so he didn't ask all the questions. And I was like, I would. I should have sent you with a freaking list. Because I want to know, like, like, did they come up with this together? Were they laying in bed at night going over their lies to everyone so they could keep their story straight? Like what happened? You know?

[Candace]

So did he even ever sleep with a Brenda? Like he did or they just.

[Miley]

That was Miley's friend. They did not sleep together. I don't know if Brenda was aware that they were using her in like this context. I, I do think that her and Miley were actually friends, but I don't know if she knew. Like, hey, I'm apparently I'm a pregnant with twins and then not twins and then twins again. Like I don't know if she knew all of that. And like I said, I can't find her anywhere to reach out and ask her. So that's just kind of a dead end.

[Candace]

That's wild. Okay, so they showed up to that dinner, they were like, we're gonna lie and say that you had sex with my friend or a girl at a bar.

[Miley]

Yeah, like they plan it all out, it's weird.

[Candace]

And she haven't been weird. And they got married. Okay, so then what was the next lie?

[Miley]

So that was basically it. It just didn't really go anywhere. Husband didn't ask all the questions. And I haven't seen him since their lunch together. He did say that, he did mention at one point, like, you know, like, what was the point of all of this? And he couldn't really give an answer. And then he was like, well, you know, it was all a lie. And mother in law kind of like clutched her pearls at one point was like, you said that you got divorced and I guess brother in law like turned in, looked and was like, we were never married. I lied to you. So like still he's lying. After years, he's lying.

[Candace]

Oh my gosh. So grandparents also were never rich. So that all of this money, how.

[Miley]

Did they get $20,000 from.

[Candace]

Yeah, what was that?

[Miley]

Mother in laws, what they were living on? I think.

[Candace]

So this 7 million was just a number. A number.

[Miley]

A fake, big fat fake number. So they were living off Mother in Law's $20,000.Mother in Law was like, I'm gonna take Miley to court. And I was like, well, if you do that, you also have to, like, implicate your son, so that's probably not gonna happen. And then he also racked up $20,000 in debt on his credit cards. And I found her baby daddy on Facebook, actually, just last week, maybe the week before, and he made a post on Facebook, like, happy 10 year anniversary, Miley, I love you so much. Yeah. Yeah.

[Candace]

What does Joe have to say about that?

[Mackenzie]

I don't know.

[Miley]

I don't know. I haven't talked to him, but he.

[Candace]

Knew because he lived with them, so do.

[Miley]

So I am still very unclear. Like, what was the point of all of this? Why would you use all of our trauma against us? Like, why would you put us through that? You, like, obviously knew that all of this was fake. The only answer that I can come up with is that mother in law very much babied Joe because he is so much younger than Dan. And so Joe is used to having all of the attention. Everything is on Joe. All of the attention, always. For the past 13 years, that's how it's been. And so when we got pregnant with twins, the attention shifted to the twins, and it was no longer on him. So personally, I feel like maybe he was just jealous. But still, it doesn't really explain it, does he?

[Candace]

I don't feel like, from what you've told me, he seems like the mastermind type. Like, she does seem like she would have come up with this sort of thing, and she was kind of driving it since she was the one telling you everything.

[Miley]

Yeah.

[Candace]

So I want to know more about how they, like, I guess I don't know. How did she. I want her to come on. I'm like, how'd you do this?

[Miley]

I know and why I found all of the information that I can find, but I just don't know if we're ever gonna. I don't think we're ever gonna get the answer of, like, why did you do this to us? Like, that's just not something that you find out on the Internet. You know what I mean? It's just without me reaching out to her and being like, what the hell is your problem?

[Candace]

Did she suddenly start being public on the Internet with her?

[Miley]

She now. Does she? Yes, she now has Facebook, and she does post pictures of her and her son and her baby daddy. There's just a lot of, like, I don't know why.

[Candace]

Mackenzie, you've been quiet over there. What's going through the brain.

[Mackenzie]

Earlier you said, I'm curious to know what your thoughts are, what your theory is so far. And I said, they are all lying. There's no damn babies. That's what I wrote.

[Miley]

You were spot on.

[Candace]

There you go. But why? Why, why? Why?

[Miley]

The why is it keeps me up at night. Honestly, like, why. Why would you do that? What kind of nasty person would do something? Like, what was the point?

[Mackenzie]

So here's. Here's my take on it. And tell me if. Tell me if I'm wrong. Maybe, but when. When there's a baby involved, right? Like when you have a baby, everything is, oh, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby. There's so much. Oh, she's having a baby. Oh, my gosh. Like your baby bump. Oh, my God, the baby. Oh, my God, the baby. Baby. Everything's about the baby. It's about a need for attention. When someone's talking about a baby, everybody goes, oh, a baby. Everybody wants to know about the baby. And so anytime you bring up a baby now, you're the center of attention. Everything is like. You just have all this attention on you.

[Candace]

Also, you having twins? Like, she picked twins so that. You jealous, Maybe? Yeah, yeah. One up you.

[Miley]

I really do feel like she just. Just kind of like, copied and pasted my story and just, like, tweaked some of the details. You know what I mean?

[Candace]

Oh, my goodness. People are.

[Miley]

Because, like, my grandpa dies, her grandpa dies. I have twins. They're having twins. I was in the hospital for forever. They're in the hospital for forever. You know, I lost my first baby. They're gonna lose their babies. But this time it's not just one baby, it's two. So.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Miley]

Yeah. I don't know. That's the end of the story. There's nothing. I don't know.

[Mackenzie]

They are all lying. There's no damn baby.

[Miley]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Yeah, I am. I. Joe.

[Mackenzie]

Poor Joe. Honey, I think Joe's kind of like a. Like, he's like, yeah, big dumb dog. I'm. I'm. It's. They just told me what to do, and they know that he's like. I think they know that Joe's not stupid enough to go along with it, because you're never stupid if you're, like, a victim of that. But they know. I. I have a feeling that.

[Miley]

Easily manipulated.

[Mackenzie]

He was easily manipulated and they took advantage of that.

[Miley]

Yes, but, like, did baby daddy and Miley set this con up? I just. You know what I mean?

[Candace]

They were.

[Mackenzie]

They. Yeah.

[Candace]

Why wouldn't you target someone richer.

[Miley]

And how could you leave your son for so long?

[Candace]

That part. Maybe they were separated, like maybe.

[Miley]

Well yeah, maybe.

[Candace]

But also how do we know she left her son for so long? Like maybe she was kind of going back and forth.

[Miley]

Well yeah, but I mean she's three hours between the two places. So where we were saying she lived with us for like true. For a week for the beginning. And then after that it was like at least three to four weeks after that. So like at least five weeks away from her kid. And then the time in Florida too.

[Candace]

Maybe the kid went to sleep boy camp or something. I don't know.

[Miley]

I'm like, I don't know.

[Candace]

At this point anything is possible. But it does sound like maybe they were in an open marriage. So that part wasn't totally wrong for her it was just another. Another marriage.

[Mackenzie]

But now it sounds like it's her saying we need to have an open relationship. And Joe's like, all right, I guess so.

[Miley]

Big brother husbands.

[Candace]

She's like, surprise. I actually have one mother in law.

[Miley]

Tried to say that like he just showed up or like Joe just showed up at Miley's house one day and opened the door and like boom, there's the six year old son. Like he had no idea. And I was like, I think that he probably knew all along that she had a kid. And like at one point I remember when she was taking care of the twins thinking like, man, she is like a natural at this. Well, hell yeah she is because she's already done it.

[Mackenzie]

So they just no damn babies. And. And then Joe, Joe is a silly. And then the oh bless.

[Candace]

And Miley's just back to her marriage and her son sending Christmas cards and yeah, just like a fun little adventure she went on.

[Mackenzie]

What is Joe doing now?

[Miley]

So he lives in another state, he's doing the big boy stuff with a new job. What he went to college for, that's what he's doing. We were supposed to spend some time together at Christmas time, but my family like all had a stomach bug. So thank the Lord we didn't have to see him because I'm still not in a great place with that even though it's been so many years. How could you trust. Yeah.

[Candace]

Being involved in that again?

[Miley]

Yeah. And I'm just like, I who did I leave my kids around kind of thing and yeah. You know. Yeah. So I don't know. He's just doing his thing and we don't hear from him. And again, but that's not unusual. We don't Ever really hear from him.

[Candace]

So he's gonna have a hard time explaining his relationship history on second dates.

[Mackenzie]

I know they were using him for something. They. There's something going on with the baby daddy or even with Miley. There's something going on with them that they needed. They needed a fall guy for something.

[Miley]

Yes. Oh, and something went wrong. He's.

[Mackenzie]

He's their fall guy for something. I don't know what, but he's their fall guy, and they needed him on the hook long enough. And so to keep him on the hook, you make up babies.

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And then you draw. The longer. The more the drama, the longer it drags out. And so they needed him on the hook long enough for something. So he's their fall guy for something I'm interested in.

[Candace]

Like what they.

[Miley]

What story?

[Candace]

They. If they're. Yeah, what story did they tell him? Yeah, maybe they. No, he knew Brenda wasn't pregnant.

[Miley]

Yeah. He said he knew everything, and he knew it was all a lie. He was in on it too.

[Candace]

Maybe they promised him $7 million or something. I don't know.

[Miley]

I am like, well, I don't think we'll ever know. And that's the part that keeps me awake.

[Mackenzie]

And that's probably what they did. They. They probably said, hey, I got some money for you if you want to do this. He's like, all right, man. And like, probably. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's a cool way to get some money.

[Candace]

Wow.

[Miley]

Yeah, that's. Wow.

[Candace]

I. I'm speechless. And I'm glad that everybody seems to be okay, but I am sorry about, like, the tense relationship you have with that side of your family. I mean, that's like, it's tough to explain to your kids. Why don't we talk to Uncle Joe? It's like, where to begin?

[Miley]

Because he's a psychopath. But I will say maybe the one good thing that came out of this is mother in law and I are probably better than we've ever been. Our relationship really is so much better.

[Mackenzie]

How is she with the babies?

[Miley]

She's great with them. They love her. So, like, as hard as it was through all of this and as much as it sucked, maybe that was like the one hard thing that we needed to kind of push her and I back together and kind of a wake.

[Candace]

Up call for her that you were really.

[Miley]

Yes.

[Candace]

You and Dan were the grounding part of this whole family through this.

[Miley]

Yes.

[Mackenzie]

It's just a lot. And there is a lot of, like, it sucks because there are many people who go through experiences where they want to get pregnant or they want to have a baby. And then you have people that, like, they pull these print, they say these lies, like, oh, I'm pregnant. Then I lost the babies. And that's traumatizing. Like, can we not do that?

[Miley]

My husband and I, when we. After we lost our. Our first pregnancy, we. We tried for so long. And so you're right. I mean, it really. It was traumatizing to hear all of this and, you know, from somebody who really wanted more children and just struggled to do that for so long. Yeah. It just kind of brought back all of those feelings, and it was just nasty. It's nasty. And you don't do that to people.

[Mackenzie]

I can't even imagine how that must have made you feel, too. Like, I mean, you sound like, okay about it, but still, it must have been like, well, you suck. Like, what happens with people that actually go. But it's. I mean, I get it, but it's just. It's awful.

[Miley]

In the moment, it was so heartbreaking. Even though I knew it was all fake, it just, like, reopened a lot of wounds.

[Candace]

It opens the wounds. And on top of it, you know, the viciousness of what she's choosing to do.

[Miley]

Yes.

[Candace]

It's really double whammy.

[Miley]

There she is just mentally unwell. That's all I can. She's just mentally unwell. And I pray that she gets the help that she needs, because I want to say a lot of really mean things, but I won't.

[Candace]

Yep. Just mess with the hbo.

[Miley]

Yeah.

[Candace]

I need updates if you ever find out more.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you for sharing this. This is crazy. I just can't. I can't with the fake pregnancies. Like, that just makes me sad. Yeah, brother. And then I just. I have so many. But no, I. Thank you so much for sharing. I wonder how many people have gone through, like, something like this too. It's always more than you anticipate.

[Miley]

Yeah. I mean, seriously, I'm so glad for the opportunity to tell this story because when you think of, like, you know, dog fishing, you think of it, like, mainly being men. And you think of it like, in a romantic relationship, you don't really think about it in, like, other capacities. And so you don't think.

[Candace]

Dog fishing law.

[Miley]

Yeah, exactly. You don't think that people you're supposed to trust that are, like, you know, you are stuck with them because they're family. Like, you don't think that they're. They would do something like this.

[Mackenzie]

Candace out here all willy nilly Messing up the con. I know. Damn it. Why does she keep researching? Yeah, it was the wrong target. Wrong target.

[Miley]

They chose the nosiest to try to pull one of over on and I was not on to us.

[Mackenzie]

What are we going to do?

[Miley]

But seriously, thank you so much. I, I really appreciate this opportunity.

[Candace]

Thank you.

[Mackenzie]

It's so nice to meet you. I want updates for sure.

[Miley]

If I have anything, I'll tell you.

[Mackenzie]

See, See what I'm. See what I'm telling y'all? See what I mean? If it wasn't, if I didn't know, if we didn't fact check this stuff, you, I would not believe.

[Candace]

There's no way the one thing that she said that I wrote down and highlighted and then otherwise I just want to hear all your theories and like, because I don't even know what to learn from this because it's so bonkers, right? She was like, you don't expect this to be what's happening. So like throughout the stories she, you know, we. Hindsight's 20 20, we hear these stories and we're like, oh my God, check her Facebook. Oh my God, check and see if they're actually, you know, if she's married. It's like we're not living our lives thinking, you know, maybe this woman is actually secretly married with a four year old son. Like, we don't think that way.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And like I could, could you imagine? Like I'm a mom to a 10 year old boy and I can't imagine leaving him like for any length of time, especially to pull some. Like, this is a legit con.

[Miley]

What's the point?

[Candace]

What do you, what do you. So you said you think there was something on Joe to make him like the fall guy.

[Mackenzie]

He's the fall guy for something. I don't know what it is.

[Candace]

But what kind? Like I asked, Talk to me like I'm just learning to walk. Like, what could that look like?

[Mackenzie]

So they're trying to get money, right? And even though it's not a lot of money, they know that he has access to something and they know that he is willing or able or not smart enough, manipulative, easily manipulated.

[Candace]

Easily manipulated.

[Miley]

That's it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. And they can get something from him. So even though it's not a lot, they know, well, we can get something. And $20,000 ain't no chump change, you know, So I don't know.

[Candace]

And they. Okay, put him up to that. But when you say fall guy, like, do they, do you think they're like covering something up that they want his name, like, attached to things or like.

[Mackenzie]

Or like, they can blame him for it.

[Candace]

Okay, got it, got it, got it.

[Mackenzie]

Because if they get him on board, right? And they say, like, okay, if my son does something wrong, right, I'm gonna be like, well, I'm mad at him.

[Miley]

Blessed.

[Mackenzie]

I'm still mad at him, but that's my boy. Right?

[Candace]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And so you. It's like this unconditional love. If someone just comes and robs me, I'm gonna be like, screw you. Like, you stole my money. But if it's my son, I'm gonna be, like, so disappointed and so mad. But you don't just stop loving your kid over it.

[Candace]

Right?

[Mackenzie]

And so it might be looked over more easily if it's like, oh, my kid is so dumb, like, I can't believe you let this happen or whatever.

[Candace]

Right?

[Mackenzie]

Do you know what I mean? So I wonder if it was something like that where, like, if they get caught, they can just say, well, it was him. He did it because he did it. He participated.

[Candace]

Yeah. Well, that's the part that's hard for me to wrap my head around is what can a couple say to somebody to be like, hey, we're married with a kid, but I want you to be my new boyfriend. And also, we're gonna, like, lie to your whole family.

[Mackenzie]

We're gonna.

[Candace]

You in, like, how do you sell that?

[Mackenzie]

This is how. Like, we're gonna. We're gonna steal some money or that we know that, you know, we can get some money and you can have some of it. Like, they're basically saying, like, we're gonna do this con, but, like, you. You'll get some of it. We just need your help getting it or whatever. But if he is, would he be willing to do that to the mom, though?

[Candace]

Obviously he was. I mean, unless they had, like, he lied to every Blackmail on him. I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it. Also, like, why some of the lies didn't make total sense to me. Why would they lie about having so much money if they needed money?

[Mackenzie]

That's because then if they say, hey, we have a lot of money, then it. It's. It's like, oh, well, then they can't be. They would never be scamming me. Yeah. They would never be accused of stealing money because they have enough. So.

[Candace]

But they don't have it yet, so I need a little bit to cover it now, like, that kind of thing. But so long term, like, so advanced.

[Mackenzie]

Because they needed time to. You have to so to get someone to trust you, that's. You need that. So a pregnancy is nine months. Right. So pregnancy is long enough time where you can, like, you can stall. Right. So Brenda's pregnant, but then she's not. And then Miley's pregnant, and then she's. And then she's not.

[Candace]

And so it draws it out.

[Mackenzie]

It draws it out longer. So they're creating time for something. So they want this long period of time, and that's enough time to get somebody to trust you and to build a relationship with. And they can explain living apart by saying, oh, we want to have an open relationship because we're going to live apart, so they can explain it away. And so they're saying, hey, you pretend to be my boyfriend. We'll pull this con. We just need you to pretend to be my boyfriend or whatever, and then just follow along with what we say the con is. And so it sounds like he would do it. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Candace]

Also, obviously, Miley using the trauma that Candace had been through with her own pregnancy to elicit sympathy or just make it believable. I don't. I don't know. It's like, diabolical. And do you think that she made that choice based on what she learned about Candace? Like, she knew that she was going to end up lose it, quote, unquote, losing the baby because there was no baby. But do you think she kind of played into knowing what Candace might find extra sympathetic? Because people do that, which is just dead. So sad.

[Mackenzie]

Maybe. I think that. I think that Candace was. She was relentless. Candace was like, you're not getting away, like, and they knew it. And I think they. I think they knew that their chances of this con were like, you know, they were going to get busted because Candace was on to them the whole time. Yeah, I think they knew it. I also think that Miley became close with Candace because you keep your enemies closer. And the closer she was her. The more friends she was with her. She could keep a better eye on her. She could watch her steps a little bit better.

[Candace]

Which is kind of funny because Candace did the same thing when she was onto her. She was like, I'm gonna keep her close.

[Mackenzie]

Yep, that's exactly what they did. It's really interesting.

[Candace]

Candace is great. I loved her. She was so one of us. Like, oh, I'm not. Like, I'm not letting this rest. I'll be at the hospital. Oh, send flowers. What's the address? I was like, yes, girl.

[Mackenzie]

There's like, I'm pregnant. Then there's twins and there's not. Then I'm pregnant. Then there's twins and there's not. Then there's this and there's. It was just. It was wild.

[Candace]

Wild. I loved her. And I want to hear all Yalls family dogfish drama. Like, yeah, what else do we have out there?

[Mackenzie]

What did your brother in law do?

[Miley]

Right?

[Candace]

I'm like, now I'm like, actually my mom's brother in law is technically a PI but he does cases where he like finds money.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, okay.

[Candace]

He's one of those where it's like if you have an account that you forget about, like he.

[Mackenzie]

A streetman account or like. Yeah, yeah.

[Candace]

But I didn't realize he was like a private investigator in a different form. I've just always known that he like finds his hidden accounts.

[Mackenzie]

There are some private investigators that they are financial. Like they will find missing money for different, like assets and things like that. It's pretty cool.

[Candace]

Kind of cool. Shout out.

[Mackenzie]

Anyway, thank you to Candace though, for sharing this story because you just don't realize, like these are real things that people really do this stuff.

[Candace]

I'm. I'm blown away. And to have kids involved. Oh, yeah, that too. Where she was just like hanging out with the kids and leaving her own son. Miley, Miley, Miley. I would love to ask her some questions.

[Mackenzie]

How do you come up with that and you risk losing your baby? Like, because if you get caught, like, you're going to jail and then you lose your ba. I can't.

[Candace]

But did she do anything technically illegal?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Candace]

Oh, yeah, the money. Well, we said the money. If she's asking for money that's not being used for what she's asking for, then that's illegal.

[Mackenzie]

That's a crime. And I can't remember what it's called, but yeah. If someone borrows money from you and they say, I'm gonna use this to buy a car, but they don't use it to buy a car and they're lying about what they. And they use it for something different. That's a crime. That's theft. And so it's, It's. That's a, That's a criminal offense.

[Candace]

Dang this great. This girl was crazy. I want to hear everybody's thoughts.

[Mackenzie]

But she did not care. So.

[Candace]

She didn't care. It worked out.

[Mackenzie]

What do you guys think? What would you do if your family member was like, hey, I want to make an announcement. Like, we're getting married on Wednesday but also gonna have an open relationship and live in like, and Also, he got someone pregnant.

[Candace]

I mean, that part was so funny.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah. And also I got a 19 year old pregnant and in my car. And it was like all of these things together were like all of the. It was like, what?

[Miley]

This is a shit show.

[Candace]

If it was a book, we would have read it for book club because it was that juicy. Thank you, Candace. Tell us your thoughts and keep talking about everything and we'll post on social. We want to hear your stories. Email us. You want to, you want to rattle off the email?

[Mackenzie]

Yes. Email address is investigatedatingdetectivespodcast.com Very good, very good, Madame.

[Candace]

And Patreon. We can talk about it all on Patreon. And we have a new Patreon episode soon and book club soon. So go join us.

[Mackenzie]

We're excited to have you on the Patreon.

[Candace]

I'm pretty, pretty speechless. I don't even know what else to say about it. This girl has, like, left me gobsmacked. Tell us all your stories, guys. We need them. I love them. And your theories. And yeah, as always, no matter if it's romantic or otherwise, trust your intuition.

[Miley]

It.