The Cancer Healing Scam: Part 1

Summary

The Dating Detectives – "The Cancer Healing Scam: Part 1"

Podcast Host: Dear Media
Episode Date: December 15, 2025
Guests: Tessa & Lena (pseudonyms; sisters recounting their mother’s experience)
Main Theme: Investigation into how a self-proclaimed healer manipulated a vulnerable woman with cancer, exposing dangers of spiritual/medical scams within dating and alternative wellness communities.

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Episode Overview

This emotionally charged episode uncovers the story of Tessa and Lena’s mother, Marianne, who became entangled with a charismatic "healer" named Grant. Their account spans their mother’s divorce, foray into spiritualism, meeting Grant, and the subsequent psychological, financial, and health manipulations that followed. The hosts and guests examine red flags: spiritual manipulation, medical misinformation, predatory relationships, and the profound consequences that can occur. This is the first half of a two-part deep dive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marianne’s Background & Entry into Spiritualism

• Family Background:
  • Marianne: Energetic, social, loved travel ("She was in a new country every other month." – Tessa, [05:23])
  • Divorced after a long marriage; brief relationship with a "Mustache Man"
• Discovering Reiki:
  • After Mustache Man, Marianne explores alternative healing (Reiki, energy healing)
  • Finds new community: “Very spiritual, into that whole thing. She met a lot of friends and... we were like, okay, cool.” – Tessa, [06:03]

2. Meeting Grant, the "Healer"

• Initial Red Flags & "Coincidences":
  • Grant (Argentina/Croatia): Claims he miraculously healed himself after paralysis.
    • "Supposedly he starts healing himself, and now...miraculously, he can walk." – Tessa, [08:07]
  • Claims to have boarded with Marianne’s uncle in another country – quickly seen by Marianne as fate, not a possible lie.
• Building Trust – Love Bombing & Shared Spirituality
  • Grant integrates himself by leveraging spiritual language and supposed connections to Marianne's origin.

3. Transactional Marriage & Hidden Motives

• Visa & Citizenship:
  • COVID-19 border closures: Grant overstates dependency
  • Moves in “temporarily,” relationship becomes romantic and transactional (citizenship for sharing book royalties, which are never realized)
  • “Maybe a month. It couldn't have been long. And she didn't tell us any of this.” – Tessa, [13:44]
• Family Kept in the Dark:
  • Marriage is hidden, then revealed via text after-the-fact (14:34)
  • Daughters alarmed by secrecy and speed

4. Grant’s "Healing" Practices & COVID-19 Misinformation

• Healing Services:
  • Charges clients for readings; exploits spiritualist community network (12:22)
• COVID-19 "Potion":
  • Claims to “cure” or prevent COVID with a homemade potion that includes a drop of Clorox bleach
  • “They were taking shots of that every hour…that's how they were able to get better.” – Tessa, [17:59]
• Anti-vaccine Propaganda:
  • Marianne, formerly apolitical, begins sending wild conspiracy theories to daughters
  • “It was really concerning. But again, she's very stubborn…Every conversation we would have, she would bring up something that has to do with it.” – Lena, [19:37]

5. Manipulation Intensifies: Medical Misinformation Turns Lethal

• Discouraging Medical Treatment:
  • Grant insists COVID vaccines and conventional cancer treatments are deadly.
  • Persuades Marianne’s sister (the guests’ aunt) to delay essential cancer treatment.
  • "He told her…her tumor shrunk and that she doesn't need to do surgery…when she did get her scans...it's grown." – Lena, [25:29]
• Medical Cosplay & Isolation:
  • Grant wears scrubs, films himself as a doctor; refuses to engage with Marianne’s family, leveraging language barriers for control.
  • Social media is for his image only – Marianne is notably absent despite being the photographer and supporter.

6. Consequences: Family Estrangement & Serious Decline in Health

• Aunt's Death:
  • After relying on Grant's healing instead of surgery, the aunt dies quickly, family devastated (27:10)
• Further Isolation:
  • Marianne stops posting or interacting online; Grant remains front-facing online, travels with her but never acknowledges her.
• Escalating Illness:
  • Marianne travels, falls seriously ill, loses ability to eat, delays diagnostics, downplays symptoms
  • Grant argues “doctors are only after money,” actively sabotages medical treatment decisions (34:48)
  • “He's telling her, the chemo's going to kill you…it’s out of the question.” – Tessa, [41:12]

7. Family Steps In – Legal and Medical Interventions

• Power of Attorney for Medical Decisions:
  • Daughters and extended family obtain power of attorney to counteract Grant's decisions (58:56)
• Hospital Bans Grant:
  • Family ensures Grant is blocked from hospital visits to protect Marianne from more interference (62:29)
• Financial Concerns:
  • Fears that Grant is targeting Marianne’s assets; discussions about property, lack of a prenup, and eligibility for inheritance (53:13)

8. Climax – Confrontation & Moment of Realization

• Hospital Intervention:
  • Nurse confronts Marianne about “end of life” plans due to refusal of care; this confrontation shocks Marianne into reluctantly considering chemo (55:05)
• Grant’s Pressure Persists:
  • Continued undermining: giving iron pills that are dangerous given her condition, smuggling alternative remedies into the hospital ([57:06], [51:20])
  • Family alerts hospital staff, coordinates care as best they can

Notable Family Quotes

• "I feel like I'm more of a doctor than you are right now." – Tessa to Grant (48:49)
• "He's such a scammer. It's insane." – Tessa, [35:43]
• "We don't even speak his language." – Lena, [58:40]
• “I'm sure a lot of you are interested in it and tell us about it, because...everything has the ability to be weaponized.” – Mackenzie (host), [65:08]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• The Coincidence Angle:

  "Oh my God, look at that coincidence." – Tessa reflecting on Grant’s story ([08:08])

• On the Bleach Potion:

  "At the end, you add a drop of Clorox in there." – Tessa, [16:19]
  "Like bleach? Clorox?" – Hanna (host), incredulous ([16:23])

• On Grant’s Medical Pretense:

  "He walks around in scrubs." – Lena, [26:09]

• On Being Shut Out:

  "We don't even know this guy. We don't speak to him. We don't even have his phone number." – Tessa, [58:39]

• Family’s Exhaustion and Frustration:

  "At that point, the entire family was just like, we don't like this guy. Something smells fishy." – Tessa, [60:42]

• On the Line Between Alternative and Exploitative:

  “Everything has the ability to be weaponized…this gets so dangerous.” – Mackenzie (host), [65:17]

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Timeline of Key Segments

• [03:35] — Sisters Tessa and Lena begin recounting their story
• [05:47] — Marianne explores Reiki and alternative healing; meets Grant
• [08:07] — Grant’s self-healing backstory
• [12:22] — The business model: $350 for “body readings”
• [15:54] — COVID “potion” with bleach promoted
• [19:37] — Marianne’s increasing consumption and forwarding of conspiracy content
• [22:11] — Grant convinces aunt to delay cancer surgery, leading to her decline
• [26:09] — Grant presents himself in scrubs online
• [34:43] — Marianne’s cancer diagnosis and Grant’s interference with optimal care
• [41:12] — Strong push by Grant against chemo; patient continues to decline
• [45:21] — ICU crisis and harsh truths from medical staff
• [48:43] — Tessa’s confrontation with Grant about his “doctor” persona
• [53:48] — Oncologist urges immediate chemo, Marianne resists
• [55:05] — Hospital forces end-of-life conversation, pushing Marianne toward reality
• [58:56] — Family obtains power of attorney, bans Grant from hospital
• [63:00] — Family investigates Grant’s motives and background
• [65:08] — Hosts reflect on the dangers of weaponized spirituality and alternative healing

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Tone & Style

The hosts maintain an empathetic, conversational, and at times darkly humorous tone, balancing the seriousness of the story with relatable asides and compassionate engagement. The sisters’ recounting is forthright, alternating between heartbreak, frustration, and moments of incredulity.

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Conclusion

Part 1 ends with the family’s discovery of how deeply Grant has isolated and manipulated Marianne, both emotionally and medically, and their mobilization to protect her. The episode is a warning about the dangers of spiritual and medical scams, especially as they intersect with vulnerable individuals seeking healing or companionship.

Part 2 will continue the investigation, exploring Grant’s background and the aftermath of his involvement.

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Listener Takeaway:
This episode is a stark cautionary tale about the overlap between dating scams, pseudoscience, and predatory “healers,” highlighting the need for vigilance, open family dialogue, and advocacy for loved ones in vulnerable situations.

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Trust your femtools!

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(For further details, tune in to Part 2 and send supportive or related stories to the hosts.)

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-6-7233 for support.

[B]

Happy dating Detectives. Monday our Our weekly holiday.

[A]

Our weekly holiday. And we're celebrating today with not one, but two guests.

[B]

Yeah, I. When, when our producer was like, the guests will be there. And I was like, wait, there's two? And you guys, it still sisters telling their mom's story.

[A]

I know. I mean, I love them. I feel like there's a sisterhood here in general.

[B]

Of course, this is, this is legit a sisterhood.

[A]

This story gets into something I feel like we haven't talked about as much yet. It's. There's definitely like just some trigger warnings, some spiritual manipulation and I would say spiritual abuse. And then we talk about cancer and a lot of medical stuff and difficulties with that. But this dogfish is dangerous. He's dangerous. There's also going to be two parts because it's a long story.

[B]

Yeah, it's a long story. And also just a pre. Warning. The sisters sound very similar and so sometimes it's hard to tell who's talking, but the, the story is easy to follow. So I'm certain that you'll still be able to understand what they're saying. But Tessa and Lena are really, really amazing guests and they just. This story is incredible and sad.

[A]

Also, I'm sitting at my grandpa's right now and there was a honk. There won't be noise in the episode. I just. If you're listening now and you're like, why was there a honk there? I can't listen to this. It's just right now. And I'm sorry. Also my grandpa says hi.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Can we talk about how I just got to meet Hannah's 97 year old papa?

[A]

Papa. Yes, we call him Papa.

[B]

He's amazing. I love him.

[A]

He's sweet. He's trying to understand what this job is that I do. But I think he's getting the hang of it because he got to meet you. He said, he said, who's that at the screen? And he said pretty girl to you. He's my bestie. But enough about Papa and wait Papa. Oh, sorry, you can't talk right now. I love you.

[B]

I love him. If he has something important to share.

[A]

I mean, respectfully, he does not.

[B]

But thank you guys so much for being here. Again, we just want to continually show our gratitude for you listening and thank you for sharing our show. If you have a story to share, email us. It's Investigatedating Detectives podcast dot com. And thank you to all of our Patreon. Everybody who signed up for the Patreon.

[A]

If you don't want ads, there's a $9 ad free listening experience on Patreon. It's $5 a month for everything, and then $9 if you want everything, plus no ads. Without further ado, let's get into it.

[B]

Let's meet Tessa and Lena. Lena and Tessa, we would love to be your platform and give you the floor and share your story. We're so glad you're here.

[C]

Thanks for having us.

[D]

I'm Lena.

[C]

And I'm Tessa, and I'm here to share our mom's story. So our mom, Marianne, she was very fun, very funny. We had a great childhood. We did everything that kids do. Of course, we had our little moments with our mom where she was annoying. Whose mom isn't? But she had a lot of friends, very popular in her little groups that she was a part of.

[A]

Is it the two of you? So sisters and who's older?

[C]

Lena's older. Yeah, it's just us two.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

And we're five and a half, six years apart, but.

[A]

So she had her girls.

[C]

Yeah, she had her girls and was married to my dad for 25 years. And they bickered a lot. And eventually they got divorced. I think I was around 16. They went their separate ways. But a few years after she met her boyfriend, that we weren't too crazy about him. Looking back now, he's not really that bad, but we just thought he was just a little over the top. And she just praised him and made it seem like he was such a great person. We had like little nicknames for him. Mustache Man.

[B]

That's what you do. Me and my best friends do too. Like, you name a guy, what do you like? Okay, we're gonna call him Mustache and we're gonna call him Goldfish or whatever.

[C]

And even after them not working out, my mom would start referring to him as Mustache Man. It was just this mustache really just was over the top, very bushy.

[A]

Did your mom work?

[C]

Yes. So she worked in a very well known photo film company.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

For over 30 years. She traveled a lot too. She Was in a new country every other month.

[A]

We're like, okay, that's iconic.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

She's like, oh, I'm going to Egypt. We're like, what?

[A]

So no wonder. A guy comes in and you're like, are you sure you want this mediocre mustache when you just go to Egypt by yourself?

[C]

Yeah. She was all over the place, though. She loved to travel.

[A]

Okay, so mustache man leaves.

[C]

He leaves. She's single for a good amount of years, and that's around the time when she found a new interest and Reiki, which is energy healing.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like chakras and stuff.

[C]

Yeah. Very spiritual into that whole thing. And she met a lot of friends and had the whole little group, and we were like, okay, cool. She seems to be okay. She's found a hobby, and it's what makes her happy, and that's fine. But one of her friends introduced her to Grant's. He was from Argentina, but was living in Croatia, and he was supposedly an up and coming supernatural healer. He would come to the United States to do appointments, and people would come in and he would do energy readings and tell you what's wrong with you. Like, oh, you have, like, clogged arteries. He told my cousin he put his hands over a certain area of her body and was just like, I can tell that you're having problems with your baby's father or whatever.

[A]

What was he? Right. That feels like a general thing to say. Of course you're having problems with your baby's father.

[C]

Right. I feel like. Who isn't? You know, it's like, Ms. Cleo, those generalized predictions.

[B]

Is your mom a woman? I'm getting female from your mom.

[C]

When he had just gotten back to the United States, my mom met him and she was super excited about it. He told her, basically, I was in a car accident when I was a lot younger, and the doctors told me that I was never gonna walk again. And I was so upset that I wanted to end my life. And. Yeah. So he was so super upset about that. But then I guess it was a failed attempt. And then he was like, you know what? He found the power out of it and was like, I'm gonna heal myself. And supposedly he starts healing himself, and now, miraculously, he can walk and he's not paralyzed.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

And then he said that he lived in the country that my mom is from, and. And I don't know how this topic of her uncle who lives there came about, but she said that he told her he was renting a room from her uncle, and it was just like, oh my God, look at that coincidence. It was a different country and I was renting a room from your uncle and she was like, oh my God, isn't that crazy? I was like, that is really crazy.

[B]

That's crazy, right?

[C]

That's not just a small world. That's, you know, did you look up.

[A]

Your family and find the address and then move there? That's kind of crazy, right?

[C]

And. But we're talking about maybe 30 years prior to everything. Yeah, a long time ago. So I was just like, wow, if that's true, that's crazy. That's cool. But she was just like, I think we're meant to be. And she was very spiritual. So she just looked at it as a sign.

[B]

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[C]

So she was helping him with getting people appointments to have their bodies read because apparently he could tell you what's wrong with you and he can heal those things also. And then Covid hit and the borders closed up. So nobody was allowed in or out and he was stuck here.

[A]

How much did it cost to go to him as a healer? Do you know?

[C]

So I remember her telling me for a one on one consultant would be $350. Yeah, but that whole thing with the appointments and stuff where there was one day where he saw a bunch of people. I don't know how much he was charging. I'm pretty sure he was charging though. It wasn't.

[A]

I'm pretty sure he was charging.

[C]

Yeah, it was definitely a business for him. So the borders closed and he was just like, I guess I'm staying. So he told her I don't have anywhere to stay. And my mom was like, come stay with me. She's always so helpful to anybody who needed help. It was only supposed to be temporary, but during that time that he was staying with her, they developed a relationship and they had plenty of time to talk. So he was telling her that he wanted to write a book and that he wanted her help. That not only the steps on creating one, getting it published and that type of stuff, but maybe to also translate it too. Cause he didn't speak English. So during that time, while he's telling her about his book, the idea came up that maybe they could get married and he could start working on getting his citizenship here. And wanted my mom's help.

[A]

How long had they been Together at that point.

[C]

Point, maybe a month. It couldn't have been long. And she didn't tell us any of this. The deal, according to her, was he said, let's get married, and when my book sells and I'm making millions, I'm going to pay you for helping me out if I can get my citizenship.

[A]

But there was romance. It wasn't just in a transaction.

[C]

So he's promising her millions, which sounded wild, but they end up getting married fairly quickly. She didn't really say anything. She just sent me and my sister a text and was like, hey, I want to talk to you guys. Let's have dinner. And so we're like, okay.

[B]

Like, after she got married.

[C]

Yeah, after.

[A]

Had you met him yet?

[C]

No.

[B]

Batman.

[A]

Hard.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It was weird because she tells us over dinner, and it was so quick. My mom was with the other guy for five years. They never got married. So that was just really out of character.

[A]

What did you think when she told you? Did you have any idea?

[C]

Well, because she was selling us on the. It was for papers. We were just like, yeah, but you really don't know him. But she was getting older, so I get it. She also didn't want to be alone, but that was her selling point on it was the papers. So she's going on all these little adventures with him, these healing things, and he starts getting really big. Like I said, she was pretty popular herself. She had a lot of friends. She knew a lot of people in that little community of the spiritual, natural healing. So he was getting more exposure and getting bigger.

[A]

What was his response to Covid? Did he think he could kill people? I feel like that would be such a good time for him to be like, this is my business moment.

[C]

Yeah. During COVID he came up with a little potion.

[A]

Pretty much.

[C]

Yeah. Yes. It was this mixture, and he had my mom record him. They posted it on YouTube, but she's recording him, and he's explaining how to make the mixture. And it was like boiling onions and then adding ginger and all these, like, things that boost your immune system. But at the end, you add a drop of Clorox in there.

[B]

Clorox?

[D]

Yes, I swear.

[C]

Clorox.

[B]

Like Clorox.

[C]

Like bleach Clorox. Her whole thing was like, it's fine. There's Clorox in the water that we drink to make sure it's clean. And I'm like, I still don't think you should be putting Clorox in these potions that you guys are making. But I had Covid, and after I was getting better, and I was able to be around people. I think that was the first time that I actually met him. And this is months after they got married, too. So I meet him, and he's like, I can see that you had the.

[B]

Delta variant he was diagnosing you with COVID Yeah.

[C]

I'm like, yeah, I guess that's the delta variant, because that's the one that's, like, going around right now. Yeah.

[A]

Like, again, it's like you're having problems with your partner.

[C]

Yeah, sure. Right. Exactly. And I'm. I was just like, all right. Anyways. And they were using that solution or that mixture potion, and they were trying to put it up my nose. Yes. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'll take a shot of it just to please you guys, because you guys are just not letting it go. They were like, it's just gonna boost your immune system. I'm like, it smells terrible, first of all. And there's bleach in there. I'm like, oh, my God. And they're like, you're not taking the whole jar of it. You're just taking a shot of it. And I'm like, I'll do a shot, but you guys aren't touching me and putting that up my nose. Burning my insides with that. No, absolutely not. And I take the shot. And it was. Of course, it was disgusting.

[B]

Well, bleached.

[C]

They were taking it every hour, though. They were taking shots of that every hour.

[A]

And they didn't even have it was just preventing.

[C]

They had it. They both caught it before I did much, much earlier than I. But they were taking it the whole time, supposedly. And according to them, that's how they were able to get better. But they were still doing it even after they had it. They were still taking shots of it, putting up their nose. It was terrible. Oh, boy. So that was really wild. And when the vaccines came out, that became a whole nother situation. They were like, oh, boy. Absolutely not. Do not get that vaccine. It's gonna kill you. It's gonna make you even sick. Sicker. And she was, like, starting to send us a lot of those, like, conspiracy theories, Right. If you get this vaccine, look at what happened to this person. You can't go to the hospital if you get Covid because they're just going to hook you up to a ventilator, and that alone is going to kill you. And it was just a lot of misinformation.

[A]

Was she someone that was tech savvy? Was she on. Yeah, okay, so she was on Facebook and seeing who knows what, which looked very believable a lot of the time.

[C]

Right. Exactly.

[A]

So both of you, you're finding out your mom got married quickly, and now she's sending you all of these theories. What was it like? You can both answer your reactions to just getting this from your mom at a time also where you're all probably separated.

[D]

Yeah. Especially with COVID Everybody's staying at home, and she starts sending us all these weird things.

[B]

So it wasn't her at all. You were like, what in the world?

[D]

No, no. She's never type of person. She never really followed politics or anything like that. So it was really concerning. But again, she's very stubborn, and every conversation we would have, she would bring up something that has to do with it. So it was very odd.

[A]

Odd. And I know. I mean, I know the feeling of it getting exhausting at some point on your end.

[D]

I mean, at first you're just like, oh, that's like, this guy, whatever. You know? But, yeah, I was like, oh, she'll, like, come back around to herself kind of thing in my head. That's how I thought about it. I'm like, oh, she's gonna realize this dude's crazy or something. Something. But she never did.

[B]

That must have been frustrating. Cause you're like. You don't want to overstep.

[D]

Exactly. And that's how, again, she's. You know, she's a stubborn lady. And I didn't want to fight her on anything or tell her about herself or, you know, because she just be like, oh, like, it's fine. It's fine. Okay. But looking back, I wish. I just wish I would have been more like, no, just more demanding and be like, no, you have to get rid of this guy. Or, like, something.

[A]

What was your relationship with him at this point?

[D]

We didn't even know him. I feel like I met him once or twice, and he was a little cold. He did not want to engage with us. He said that he didn't speak English.

[A]

Oh, right.

[D]

So it was always my mom speaking to him in Spanish, and then she spoke to us in English.

[B]

Language barrier. Right.

[A]

And this is Lena. Now are. Just. Because you guys are definitely sisters, your voices are kind of similar.

[B]

They sound very much alike.

[A]

So Tessa had to deal with, please have this Clorox drink. Did they ever try to get you to take anything?

[D]

Yeah. He was selling this stuff to people. People were buying it.

[B]

Who are these people?

[A]

I bet a lot of people, because people are scared. When people are scared, they'll do anything if you are confident and tell them you know what you're talking about.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

I'll believe you. Yeah. She's like, I'll drink bleach, but I'm not doing that vaccine.

[C]

Yeah. But she was pushing a lot of people not to get it. Like, like our aunt. So our aunt actually got diagnosed with lung cancer.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Yeah. It was not a fun time.

[B]

So sorry. That must have been.

[A]

So this is all around that time. Oh, gosh.

[C]

I want to say a little after Covid in the transitioning of the craziness.

[B]

Of it, the world is starting to open up a little bit.

[D]

Yeah, exactly. We went on a little trip with our aunt just to get together and that's when she was telling us about him saying, you can't get the vaccine. If you get a vaccine, you'll be dead in six months. That's what he told her.

[A]

So to your mom or your aunt?

[D]

To our aunt.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

That's when she got diagnosed and everything like that.

[B]

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[D]

So she was going to the doctors. He told her how he can feel.

[A]

Things like his healing powers.

[D]

Yes. That he felt that her tumor shrunk and that she doesn't need to do surgery. And she actually delayed surgery for quite a bit. And so then when she did go to get her scans done and everything, they're like, no, you definitely still have.

[C]

A tumor and it's grown, Right?

[B]

Oh, no, this guy got it. He went to medical school in a frigging Cracker Jack box and he's trying to share his wisdom. That's terrible, right? Who does he think he is?

[A]

God?

[D]

I don't know. He walks around in scrubs.

[A]

Wait, you are kidding me.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You are kidding me.

[D]

If you go on his social media, like TikTok or anything, he'll have videos of himself talking. And he's in scrubs.

[B]

He wants you to think he's a doctor.

[A]

Right.

[D]

But not seeing it.

[B]

Bless it.

[A]

Okay, so this is a real grifter. So what happens with your aunt? Did she end up getting surgery?

[D]

I hope so. She did have multiple surgeries in the time that she was diagnosed, but she actually went to stay with my mom and him for, I want to say, two to three weeks because he said he's gonna do some type of healing things. And once her husband took her back to the house, she declined so fast and ended up passing away, like just within a couple weeks.

[A]

No. I'm so sorry. Oh, my God, that's terrible.

[B]

I'm so sorry.

[D]

We didn't really know too much about it because my mom really didn't tell us too much right at that time, so. So.

[A]

Oh, gosh so when you find out about that, what?

[D]

Yeah, we're like, oh, this guy is really out here telling people he can heal cancer and stuff like that. We already didn't like him because we can see right through him. Obviously. It was just really hard to just lose our aunt at that time.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So we weren't really even paying attention to him that much. But it was still obviously in the back of everyone's mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And even at her funeral, my mom was acting really weird too. They were best friends, her and my mom. So the fact that she sat in the back of the service with him alone.

[C]

Wow, that's really crazy.

[B]

That's very.

[D]

Not even interacting with anybody. She's just with him when she's always like the main person at all family events. She's always the glue to our family. And now she's sitting in the back of the service with him. Even our father, who they're not together anymore. He's in with all of her family and she's just back there with him alone. And then we have a little get together afterwards and she was still alone in a corner with him. That's not her. That's not normal.

[A]

At this point, how much do we know about his background? I know you told me where he lived, but do we know if he's been married, if he's has cured anybody?

[D]

No idea.

[A]

Nobody knows anything.

[D]

Book apparently about healing, and he went all around the world healing people. That's in his book, which she helped publish for him. We don't know anybody that he's healed, so.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

What happened after your aunt died?

[D]

It's weird because we didn't really talk much about him not helping her. Obviously her husband was really pissed off because he's like this guy said he was going to heal her and that he knew what to do and all this kind of stuff.

[A]

So he shared that, but nobody else. Why do you think it was hush.

[D]

Hush their families like that? They don't want to be confrontational.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

I get it. It's a huge accusation to like walk up and be like, I think your boyfriend is responsible for the death of your sister.

[B]

100%. That's the big thing.

[D]

Yeah. And he just didn't have a relationship with our family really. I think he tried to seclude her from everybody and you both.

[A]

I know Tessa has kids. Do you have kids at this point?

[D]

Yeah. I have an older daughter that's. That's my mom's first granddaughter, which they were very close.

[A]

But you have your own Families and everything. Because on the podcast it's easy to tell the story really quickly and forget about all the other moving parts in someone's life. You know, it happened.

[D]

No.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

We have jobs, we have our families, we have things that are going on. So it was a lot. So our mom, she would take him on all the trips, they went all over the place and all his social media would have pictures of all their traveling, but it's just him and the.

[C]

Pictures she is in.

[D]

No, not one Instagram photo, not one TikTok, not once. Facebook, really?

[A]

It's him.

[D]

My mom's literally taking pictures of him and he's posting them of himself.

[A]

And he probably said, oh, it's for my business. Yeah, I don't mix my personal life.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Yes, it's exactly what he told her. Which she told us that his ex, they don't want to stir up anything with her. I'm like, who cares? Why does that matter? I don't know if it maybe bothered her, but she didn't make it known to us that it bothered her. I think it did.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Who wouldn't be bothered by that?

[B]

That's crazy, right?

[D]

They're literally going to other countries all over the place. It wasn't just in the U.S. like, they were going to big trips. And then our mom stopped being on social media. Like she used to be on Facebook and she never was interacting with anybody. And then that's when, last year in March, they took a trip out of the country and they were there for a couple months and apparently his son lived in that country and he's a surgeon or an actual doctor or something.

[A]

Oh, so he rebelled.

[C]

He's a surgeon.

[D]

I don't know what he is. But they were there, they visited him. They were staying at an Airbnb and my mom was starting to feel sick the last half of the trip. And when they got back, she just was not feeling good.

[C]

She could not eat normal.

[D]

She didn't tell us too much. She tried to downplay a little bit what she was feeling, but she just always was like, oh, it's fine, I'm okay.

[C]

I feel like the whole family is like that too.

[D]

Right. Again, non confrontational. Very, like, not a big deal. But he's a healer and he's this amazing person. So we're like, okay, again, we don't want to overstep or sure. Make her feel just upset.

[C]

She's very stubborn.

[D]

Again, like I said the whole time that she got back from her trip, she cannot eat anything, keep anything down.

[C]

Right. And she was a smaller lady.

[D]

She's tiny.

[A]

Oh, no. Okay, so what is going through your heads?

[C]

So she really wasn't giving us too much downplaying it. So we're just following up with her the whole time she had gone to the hospital, and it was then where they saw something in one of the imagings that showed she had a mass somewhere in the liver area. So they're assigning a specialist, and they wrote oncology. And she sent a picture to us, and she's like, what the hell? Why would they be assigning an oncology doctor? And she's like, I'm leaving. I think she ended up leaving. So she had to go to the gastro, and they had to put a stent in because she also had gallstones. That was initially.

[B]

Oh, bless her heart.

[C]

So she ends up going to a doctor's appointment where they're like, we want to take another look with a camera and also get a biopsy and sample so that we can look into what's going on. If it's benign. Not benign. Her results came back, and they were like, we want to do another scan. I don't think they saw anything on the first one. And she's like, they're going to be so shocked when they do another scan to see that there's nothing. They don't know what to think or how this issue resolved on its own because Grant has shrunk and cured whatever was going on in there.

[A]

And was she eating again? Was she feeling better?

[C]

No.

[D]

No.

[A]

Yeah. So they're just trying to find the cause of this.

[C]

Right. So she's like, they just want to get more money by doing another scan.

[D]

He made her believe that the doctors are just after money. He fed all this stuff to her.

[C]

That they're scamming her. Just more procedures equals more money for them. And then if they could find anything, that's more money for a treatment plan. So that was her whole approach with that. So on the second time that they had to go in with a camera, they did find something, and they took a biopsy, and it was a T cell lymphoma.

[D]

And they told her she did have.

[C]

A tumor in her bile duct, and she, again, downplayed it. Mind you, we're under the impression that he's taking care of her at home.

[D]

Right.

[C]

He's an Uber driver, so he can make up his own schedule.

[A]

Oh, you didn't mention that.

[B]

Yeah, that's his profession.

[C]

That and selling.

[B]

He's a bleached pharmacist. Got it.

[D]

He's Such a scammer. It's insane.

[C]

He's actually selling water purifiers to make your house water alkaline because that's what is going to bring oxygen to your bloodstream and help you.

[D]

He used like the whole health thing.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

There's a whole world of this stuff.

[C]

Yeah. Me and Lena really thought that that whole little sales thing was such a scam.

[D]

You know those home conventions that they have?

[A]

Sure.

[D]

They would go and do a whole presentation about this stuff.

[A]

So he was a charismatic salesman.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[D]

I saw right through him. But some people believed him.

[A]

Oh, I'm going to go down a rabbit hole when we're done with this. He said he had his social media out there.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm worried.

[C]

30K followers?

[D]

No.

[A]

So he's like got a significant following.

[C]

Absolutely. Bless it.

[B]

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[A]

Okay, so he's driving Uber but quote, taking care of her and healing her, right? I mean, she is going to the doctor though. Was he? I bet he was telling her not even to do that at all.

[D]

Yeah, probably.

[A]

Was he mad that she went in the first place?

[D]

She didn't tell us.

[C]

She was just basically like, they want me to do chemo and I'm not doing chemo. And I'm like, okay, so what are your options then? And she's like, well, I'm going to look at different options. I just don't. The chemo is going to kill me. And that's what Grant was saying from day one. Chemo is going to kill you. The chemo is going to kill you. The chemo is going to kill you. It's out of the question. And she's like, I'm going to see about getting radiation. I'm like, but is that even an option? Because I know that there are certain things that you can do for certain cancers, you know, and they're suggesting chemo. Well, she didn't want the chemo. I think maybe a month or two after she gets this information, she's again, still not eating. She came back in April, was sick in April, May, June, and in July.

[D]

The same.

[C]

Still the same. Yeah. She was disappearing, so.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And how are you feeling? You just lost your aunt to cancer, so is that part of this too? Yeah.

[D]

We were very close to our aunt, too.

[B]

Did you ever question her about, hey, you sat so far away. What's going on? At the funeral, you were so distant. Did you ever bring it up or anything?

[D]

No, no, no. It's so hard with her because everything. She's going to defend him. Everything that we ever would bring up, she's defending him.

[A]

Did you get scared that if you brought it up too much, she would push away even more? Yep.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah, I would have been scared. I can understand that.

[C]

Everyone would just end up fighting. So she's just super sick and the whole time she's still working? She worked from home, but she just had no energy. We're under the impression that her husband, her loving, helpful husband, is there by her side taking care of her, taking.

[D]

Her to the doctors and stuff.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Every time that I would go over, which wasn't a lot anymore since he was around, but I did go over there Mother's Day and then a couple other times, and he was not there during the day, like, oh, where is he? She's like, oh, he's ubering. I'm like, okay. So he's just out all day long and she's there sick, and I brought her food, I'd bring her soup. I gone there and made soup there for her because that's literally all she can stomach.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

Wow. And she's just there all day by herself. We didn't know. And all the family members too, they were all trying to help her too, and going over and bring her whatever she needs. And then it got to a point where she was just really feeling so sick. And she called her dad doctor, and he told her, you need to go to the er. And she told her husband, hey, I need to go to the hospital. And he's like, oh, well, you know, if you're still like that tomorrow, I'll take you.

[B]

Oh, no.

[D]

I don't know if her doctor was just like, no, you need to go, or she was just like, no, she called 911 for herself.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I can't believe she had to finally do that.

[A]

You know, it was so bad. She had been listening to him all this Time. Yeah.

[D]

She was literally coughing up blood. And he's like, mom, well, maybe if you feel bad tomorrow, I'll take you. Like, what? So that's when she went to the hospital. They found that she had a bleed in her esophagus.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Very traumatic, I know you said. But just. She has not done chemo. Not really done any.

[C]

Not once.

[A]

No treatment at all? Okay.

[C]

Nothing?

[D]

No.

[C]

Just the natural little supplements that Grant is giving her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's crazy. Okay.

[D]

So she was in the hospital.

[C]

They had a cauterized. She had to be intubated and was in icu because when you're intubated, you're in icu. So we get the call that your mom's in the icu, and I speak with the doctor, and the doctor was like, are you aware that your mom has cancer? I'm like, yeah, we know. She's like, is there a reason why she's been denying the treatment? I'm like, well, I know that she said that she had to look at different options. And she's like, well, your mom and her husband have been denying these treatments. Do you know why? And I'm like, she thinks that she has other options. She's like, there's not a lot of options for this type of cancer. So it's really critical that she gets it, because this is a direct result of that tumor that's growing and her not getting this treatment sooner. The reason there's blockage because it's getting bigger. It's putting pressure on her vessels, and they are. Yeah. So that's what caused that burst. And once she broke it down to me, I was like, we had no.

[D]

Idea it was that serious.

[C]

We also didn't know how quick things escalated to this point where we just literally found out.

[D]

Usually people have a couple months.

[B]

Yeah, right, Right.

[C]

So that's why we weren't alarmed when she was like, oh, I'm thinking about different options.

[A]

Right. You were like, I was gonna ask you, did they tell her? It sounds like she didn't tell you. Did she know what the recovery rate was at the time of diagnosis.

[C]

From our own research, there was a 80 something percent success rate with that treatment. And she's in ICU. I go to visit her, and I'm just in shock because they have her sedated. She didn't look like herself, and there's a tube down her throat. So I'm like, this is really scary. It's real. The first thing the nurse said was, hey, there's a tube down her throat. So don't try and engage too much with her because she's gonna wanna talk back and she can't.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Oh, so it's okay to let her know that you're there, but don't try to engage in any kind of.

[B]

Don't try to get her respond or anything.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So I'm like, okay. Her husband walks in after me, and he immediately starts hovering over her, and he's just talking really low and really fast. And I'm like, ew, what is he doing?

[B]

Spanish, right?

[C]

You don't.

[A]

You don't speak it. Okay, so is he like, I understand.

[C]

Spanish, but me and Lena don't speak it. But I couldn't even hear him. Even if I could understand him, I couldn't hear him. He was talking so low. And I saw her kind of getting stressed out. She was moving around and looked scared, legitimately scared. And I was freaking out inside, so I stood up and I'm like, hey, what are you doing? Get away from her. And plus, the nurse just got finished telling us, don't get her to.

[B]

Don't get her brought up. Get away from her.

[C]

Yeah, don't. Exactly. And he's speaking in broken English. He's like, let me talk to you outside. And I'm like, let's talk outside, please.

[A]

I've got some things.

[C]

I had a lot. I have a lot to say. And I'm like, you cannot be standing over her. What are you doing? He's like, I was just explaining to your mother that her doctor is the reason why she's here. Because of his malpractice by putting that stent in. She's been sick ever since. I'm like, you're kidding me, right? She's here because that tumor is getting bigger and it's blocking everything. So of course it makes sense. The way they broke it down and explained it to me. Makes perfect sense why she's here. He's like, he's still wearing scrubs. He wasn't wearing scrubs at that moment.

[B]

Well, that would.

[A]

Like walking into a hospital with those would be.

[C]

It wasn't until after he started coming with scrubs, which. Yeah, we'll get to that part.

[A]

So what does he say when you confront him?

[C]

I'm like, you're not a doctor. You think you're a doctor. You're not a freaking doctor.

[B]

You know?

[C]

And he's like, you're not a doctor. I'm like, I feel like I'm more of a doctor than you are right now.

[B]

So I'm not trying to be a doctor. I'm listening. Right?

[C]

The doctors are the doctors, right?

[B]

This is General Hospital at this point.

[C]

Yeah. I was like, man, I gave that nurse station a show. So he finally actually just ended up turning around and walked off. But keep going, keep walking. Yeah. So she ended up staying there. She did come out of icu, but she got admitted into a regular room. We're coming to see her every single day. We're like, so now that you're here and things are not going good, what are we doing? And she's like, oh, I don't know yet. I'm like, oh, my God. Everyone's like, I just need to get this chemo started. And of course, she's just, no, he's coming every day. We're coming every day.

[B]

And he's training her to not want it right in her head. She's trusting him.

[C]

Yeah. So she actually ends up with a kidney infection while she's there. And he was showing up in the.

[D]

Morning, too, because he knew, like, nobody else would be there. Like, he wanted to get in her.

[B]

Ear before anybody else could.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And she mentioned that he was buying these weird mushrooms, I think, from like.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah. I don't even remember where, but there were these, like, healing mushrooms that are super detoxifying, and, you know, they cure a lot of stuff. And I'm like, has anyone read the packaging? Yeah. So there's, like, a clear warning on there. If you have liver problems or, like, anything that has to do, like, your liver is not well, do not take this. I'm like, mom, you literally are. You guys are just taking whatever warnings or no warnings. You cannot take this. I'm like, you have issues going on with your liver. And there was one day that I showed up and he walked in the room with, like, a thermos, and I'm like, what's in there?

[B]

It ain't chicken soup.

[C]

Because I just became, like, a cop at that point. I'm like, what's in there? He's like, it's dandelion tea. And I'm like, dandelion tea? Did we look this up to see if it's okay to take with everything that she's got going on? Because a lot of these little natural remedies, you also can't do all of them. All of them are not suitable.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So sure enough, it's like, careful if you have a kidney infection or are on antibiotics for infection, because it can. Yeah. It can interfere with the antibiotics. And she had this kidney infection that Was ongoing. That was not going away.

[D]

Kept getting infections.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

She. I'm like, well, I guess we know why this is not working so well, this dandelion tea or whatever, you know? I'm like, maybe it's not to say.

[D]

Like, oh, that was a sole reason, but I'm trying to help, you know, that's what.

[C]

Yeah. And that's what I. I said. I'm like, it's probably not a big deal, but you don't know that. Yeah, you're. It's probably not helping. Like, just leave all that stuff out.

[A]

Were you okay? Now my brain is, like, moving a mile a minute where I'm like, so he's driving Uber and trying to make his scam healing work. Did you. Did it cross your mind like, that? Is he, like, trying to just get money from her now that he's married to her?

[D]

Like, yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is he doing this on purpose? In a way?

[C]

That's what. Yeah, that's kind of what we thought.

[D]

We started asking our mom questions. She has her properties and stuff. And I'm like, hey, it's not looking great. And I'm just trying to be real. Trying to be logical at this point. I was really, really hard to even just ask her these kind of things, but she was like, no, I already talked to a lawyer, and anything I have that I bought prior to our marriage, it's safe. And I'm just like, I don't think so. And she said she talked to a lawyer, and I don't know if it's somebody that maybe he knew. Right, Tessa?

[C]

Like, yeah, I don't know. It was.

[D]

It was a little weird.

[A]

And his like, I'll take care of it.

[D]

Oh, no, in. In Florida, like, no, if you're married, anything you have without a prenup or anything like that, like, that's it.

[B]

Half cease.

[D]

He's entitled. Yeah. So we have little conversations about that. And again, at that point, we're like, she's gonna be fine. And that's why I didn't really want to press her too much either, because, like, she's gonna be fine. Like, so that's. I think. Yeah, she's still at that first hospital first.

[B]

Oh, God.

[D]

Oh, yeah. No, just the first one I actually sat in with when the oncologist came in for the first time, and he was like, this is, like, very treatable. We can start you on chemo right now.

[C]

And she's like, no, I'm just too.

[D]

Weak because she had lost so much weight at this point, and she didn't Want to do the chemo? Because she was, like, very weak.

[A]

You must be ripping your hair out.

[D]

So sorry.

[A]

I want to apologize.

[B]

This is so much. So sorry that. What an experience.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, we've never been through anything like this.

[B]

No, no one has. Because that's insane. This guy.

[D]

Yeah. You know, she was there for quite a bit until she did actually get a first treatment. Right, Tessa? Yeah, she was in there for, like, a good month until.

[C]

Well, it wasn't until the lady came in randomly one day when I was there visiting with her, and I'm glad I was. Some lady from the hospital walked in and she's like, hey, I came here to discuss your end of life wishes. And I was just like, Me and my mom were looking at each other.

[B]

Wait, what?

[D]

What?

[C]

Like, what?

[D]

Just what?

[C]

Like end of life wishes? What are you talking about? Like, she's like, well, you've refused the treatment. It says here that you and your husband have refused this treatment.

[D]

When your husband.

[C]

Yeah, all the notes that you and your husband. Patient and husband. Patient, husband. She's like, well, you're refusing treatment. So ultimately, like, this is going to happen. So I mean, unless you're doing something about it, like, yeah, you want to talk about it, or do you want me to come back? And we're both crying. I'm like, mom, you have to get this done. Like, you have to just do it. And that was the point where she was just like, okay, I have to stop fucking around. Basically.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, that must have been hard to even come to for her.

[C]

Yeah. And I don't even think she told this guy right away that she decided to do it because she didn't want to see his reaction. He was, of course, gonna get mad, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What right does he have? Like. Yeah, so upsetting.

[C]

Right. And she's not getting any better.

[D]

She had a friend that would come visit all the time, too, and he would express that same thing. Like, oh, if she does chemo. Like, you know she's gonna die.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Okay, so your mom kind of heard, like, yes. He keeps saying, if I do chemo, I'm gonna die, but now I know that I'm gonna die if I do nothing.

[D]

Exactly. He's like, oh, I can. I can just take you home and heal you. That's what he kept saying, but yet he hasn't done anything up until this point to help her.

[C]

He was trying to give her iron pills when they told her her hemoglobin was low and was giving her such a high dose of Iron. And we didn't know this.

[B]

Not a doctor.

[C]

Right.

[D]

We didn't know this was, like, actually going on, though, until Tessa looked into it. She was like, iron's not good.

[A]

I wish there were policies at the hospital that once you get caught slipping people medicine or anything that they shouldn't be taking that you're, like, out of there.

[C]

Honestly, they should, because there should be sodomy.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Our uncle called the hospital, spoke to a nurse, and he's like, listen, that guy's going in there giving her whatever. You guys, like, do something. And then her friend also, who was very worried about her, she also told the nurse while she was there, you know, that he's giving her iron pills. And she's like, iron pills? They were like, oh, my God. No, no, that's not what she needs. And we're like, well, yeah, the husband thinks because the hemoglobin's low that she needs iron pills. And he's like, oh, my God, no, that's a terrible idea. No, he. She should not be taking any iron supplements at all. But we just started bringing a lot of our concerns up to the doctors and nurses. And, I mean, they hurt us, but they didn't really, like, you know, they're just like, oh, my God. I think they honestly were so over the drama, because every time we would call, they're like, we just gave an update to the husband, and can't you ask him? And we're like, yeah, that's what we're saying. We're like, we don't even know this guy. We don't speak to him. We don't even have his phone number. Can you just.

[B]

We don't even speak his language.

[D]

Like, yeah, exactly.

[C]

And we're like, can you just give us the information? They're like, oh, they were so over us, honestly.

[D]

But I think that's at the. That's the time that we got a power attorney for her health.

[B]

Good.

[D]

Yeah. Because it just started getting really out of hand with him. Everybody was just like, this guy cannot keep visiting her and bringing random things to her.

[C]

We ended up getting power of attorney for her health decisions in the event that she was, like, incoherent. So she finally gets her first round of chemo.

[D]

I did stay with her for her first round, and after it seemed like she was doing better. She felt better, but not for long.

[A]

What happened?

[C]

She was feeling better. Things were looking better. Yeah. In the labs, and they were able to release her to a rehab facility because she had been in bed so long that she needed Help with the walking and building her strength back up. So she did go to a rehab center really far from us.

[A]

Was it closer to where he lived? Was he involved? Yeah, it's right down the street from them. Oh, great.

[D]

But far from us. That's what kind of sucked because he can get there super quick, and we're just, like, you know, going to work and, like, trying to like our lives, too. So it was really, really tough in that aspect.

[C]

But he stopped going to see her. I want to say it was like, after him and one of her. Her. One of my mom's cousins, her husband and my mom's husband kind of got into an argument at the facility, A heated argument. Like, it was. Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, I'm not surprised.

[C]

Yeah. And at that point, the entire family was just like, we don't like this guy. Something smells fishy. And everybody was just super suspicious of him. There was. He didn't have one person on his side at all. The whole family. And our family's huge. Like, we have a really big family. So everybody's just like, we don't like this guy. You know, there's something. Yeah, he's definitely.

[B]

Selectively, everybody's femtuition was going.

[A]

It's like, no, no, no, no, no.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Did that work on your mom at all? Did she start to listen?

[D]

I think so.

[C]

It was. Yeah. We started talking a lot about it. I just kept saying, I'm like, I don't trust him. And she's just like, yeah, yeah, I hear you, I hear you. But at the same time, she's really sick. She has no energy, but she ends up not doing so well at the rehab facility.

[B]

And, oh, man.

[C]

She ends up getting a little more sick at this rehab center, and they end up taking her to the hospital again. I think her lungs were filling up with fluid.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Yeah. There was just fluid everywhere at this point. And they're like, we have to take her to the doctors. They have to remove some of the fluid. Hopefully they'll release her soon and she'll be able to come back and restart this rehab. So she ends up going to another hospital separate from the one that she was already at. And that was when we put him on a list. Like, we blocked him from the hospital so that he couldn't come see her.

[D]

So I can't visit her at all.

[B]

Good.

[C]

Yeah. Because we're just worried, like, okay, this is even farther now. Like, each time, it's getting farther from us. We're in one county, she's in another.

[A]

So what was his response to that? Did he fight it?

[D]

No, no.

[C]

I mean, if he did, he. Maybe he didn't. Our mom. Yeah. But he. Yeah, he had no way of contacting us again. We don't have any contact information.

[D]

Yeah, you're like, don't even know him at this point.

[C]

We were just scared that if we weren't there, we weren't present or like, he's alone with her. What is he going to do? What is. What else is going to give her?

[D]

What can he bring there?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

It was horrifying. So we. We always try to have some kind of, like, some type of family member at the hospital all day long. So we're taking shifts basically, just to protect her.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Just so he wasn't there.

[C]

So at one point, we actually were like, I wonder what his motive is. The whole family was just sharing their thoughts, like, do we even know if he's still married in another country? You know? And so that's when we decided to do our own little investigation into this guy.

[B]

So. Okay, first of all, this guy. This guy. I don't. I kind of don't. I. I don't know.

[A]

I mean, I'm so upset already. And I know we're not even done.

[B]

I want to know what was said to the mom specifically. Like, I want to be a fly on the wall and hear those conversations. Like, how do you get in with someone that quickly, that closely? And what did you say to her to make her believe you so fast? I just don't. I don't know.

[A]

We'll get into. I. I'm so with you. And at the end of part two, we'll talk even more in depth. But already I'm like, he had a sob story. He talked about his trauma growing up and healing himself. Himself. And be positions himself as this inspiring, almost otherworldly genius, which I. I guess.

[B]

Like, he has the answers to everything.

[A]

Oh, God. And also, I. I want to say again, we won't get into everything. We're not criticizing people who are interested in spirituality, interested in energy. Like, I have friends who do Reiki, and I don't.

[C]

I don't. Like.

[A]

I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of you are interested in it and tell us about it, because I think there's. This goes for religion. Like, everything has the ability to be weaponized.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this gets so dangerous. And I think it's weaponized in terms of trying to get people's money, and it's weaponized in terms of how it affects health, and it actually hurts people. And that's where this becomes so dangerous. And I. I'm so cautious.

[B]

I'm so. And frustrating. So just make sure. Listen next week for part two and you'll hear the rest of Tessa and Lena's story. And I just love that they're sharing it on behalf of their mom. I think it's like you said earlier, there's a sisterhood here, and this is a literal sisterhood. And I just, I'm really so appreciative of the bravery and the courage that these ladies are showing coming forward and sharing this story. And I think it's so easy to feel alone, even in stuff like this, But I have a feeling they're not.

[A]

No, of course. I'm so glad they have each other. And I. I think if you're a. If you have a parent or someone in your life who has been in this situation where you're like, I don't know how to get through to them, I'm sure you can relate. And please feel free to send any thoughts in the meantime questions and we'll try to answer them at the end of part two. And as always, supportive.

[B]

Any supportive comments you have, too, we'll make sure they get it. And so. And we've had parental stories before, so. Yeah, thank you guys so much. You're always so supportive. So. But let's. We'll listen to the rest and then do a dogfish debrief at the end of next week's episode.

[A]

Patreon. We have a book club coming up.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[A]

Pretty Things is the name of the book. We're announcing the meeting. It's going to be in the next couple weeks on Patreon, so it's by Janelle Brown. You still have time if you want to join. Patreon is $5 a month, and that's where we do book club club, as well as have a community that chats all the time and responds to these stories.

[B]

And we do these stories.

[A]

Oh, we chat. And then we do two bonus episodes a month. And the book club is like a.

[B]

Zoom call with us, and it's so fun. So anyways, until next week. Thank you so much. And as always, trust your femtool. It.