The Demonic Dogfish

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dating Detectives – "The Demonic Dogfish"

Date: September 1, 2025
Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz and Hanna Anderson
Guest: Stella

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Overview

This episode of "The Dating Detectives," titled "The Demonic Dogfish," features the gripping and harrowing story of Stella, who recounts her tumultuous and abusive relationship with “Damon”—a man deeply invested in demonology, manipulation, and ultimately, revenge porn. Through Stella’s story, the hosts explore themes of spiritual and emotional manipulation, the dangers of love bombing and controlling behavior, and the systemic challenges victims face in seeking justice. The episode also addresses broader issues around consent, technological abuse, inadequacies in reporting revenge porn, and community support for survivors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trigger Warnings & Introduction

• Trigger Warnings: Spiritual/demonic themes, physical violence, sexual consent violations, and revenge porn.
• [00:59] A: “We have a demonic dogfish. There’s some satanic stuff… definite mention of physical violence and revenge porn. And in the dogfish debrief… we’re definitely going to do a more in-depth conversation about revenge porn.”

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2. Stella’s Story: The Relationship Begins

• Initial Encounter: Stella met Damon on a dating app and, despite “femtuition” (female intuition), was drawn into a relationship after a chance encounter at a bar.
• Damon’s Persona: Described as a “demonologist” practicing black magic, Damon’s intense beliefs and altar at home were both off-putting and strangely intriguing for Stella, who has a Buddhist background and open interest in alternative spirituality.
• The Love Bombing: Damon started with grand romantic gestures, bringing roses every time, love bombing, future faking, and presenting himself as protective and gentlemanly.
  • [08:58] C: “Hardcore, like, was just like, you're perfect,” which at first was confusing for Stella—was it passion or manipulation?
  • [10:24] C: “He just was really intense on gender roles... [but] in a way that didn’t seem toxic at first. And then I realized it was toxic.”

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3. Escalating Red Flags and Control

• Open Relationship: They agreed not to be monogamous, but Damon became controlling about even Stella’s platonic interactions.
• Location Sharing: Early request to share live locations, cited as “safety,” but actually about control.
  • [20:06] B/C: "He wanted to start sharing our locations… our whole relationship only lasted not even two months. So everything… was in a one to two month period.”
• Possessiveness and Intimidation:
  • [26:51] C: “He’s like, How dare you talk to a young stud in front of me and not introduce me… If someone is going to be important enough to interrupt me… I need to know who this person is. If any...”
  • Damon’s reactions involve public outbursts, physical aggression (grabbing bag), and online shaming (Tumblr posts with Stella’s photo and rants).

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4. Manipulation, Gaslighting, and Abuse

• Physical and Emotional Manipulation: Damon would use his racial identity and traumatic history as shields/excuses for abusive actions, and gaslight Stella about her independence and personal boundaries.
• Love Bombing and Withdrawal Cycle: He uses cycles of intense affection followed by arguments and threats.
• Physical Abuse: Ultimately grabs Stella by the throat in anger, her breaking point.
  • [57:41] C: “He grabs me by the throat super hard... you fucking look at me. And I pushed him off of me... that's abuse. Like, how do you not see that as abuse?”

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5. The ‘Demonology’ and Spiritual Manipulation

• Damon’s beliefs used as intimidation—claims to summon demons, perform blood rituals (including sex during menstruation), and lay curses.
  • [14:28] C: “if we have sex on your period, I see that as a blood ritual... I'm using your blood as an energy sacrifice...”
  • [46:17] B/C: He would attempt “meditations” that invoked his demons, purportedly for the relationship.
• The effect was to make Stella question her safety—both physical and metaphysical.

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6. Major Incidents: Car Accident & Aftermath

• Final Destination Night: Stella and Damon see the movie, and on the way home, get in a major car accident with Damon (unlicensed) driving Stella’s car. She is physically injured, traumatized, and left with ongoing pain.
  • [50:09] C: “We get in a horrific car accident and my car gets totaled... I'm still injured, like, my back... I'm in everyday pain still.”
• End of Relationship: Stella finally ends things, but is met with retaliatory cash requests, further manipulation attempts, and the threat of continued presence (loitering near her work).

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7. Revelation of Revenge Porn

• Anonymous Tip: Stella gets a burner IG message stating her videos are online.
  • [60:24] C: “There are porn videos of you online.”
• Betrayal: Turns out Damon posted explicit videos and audio recordings of Stella and other women on FetLife, some of which were recorded and uploaded without consent or knowledge, including from other apparent non-consenting partners.
  • [65:19] C: “There are so many videos and pictures of me with my face... and he didn’t post any of these after we broke up. He had been posting it our whole relationship.”
  • [65:29] C: “Posted audio recordings... which I really do not think they knew... in my state is a felony.”
• Reporting Obstacles:
  • FetLife only removes content with direct evidence of non-consent, not the entire account.
  • Police showed little sympathy, suggested “emailing” Damon, revealed little understanding of the gravity of the offense.
  • Legal process daunting; lawyers and prosecutors indicate maximum punishment is a misdemeanor and likelihood of public shaming, making legal recourse unattractive.

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8. Systemic Issues & Survivor Struggles

• Legal Gaps: Revenge porn often not prosecuted aggressively; courts often re-victimize survivors. Maximum punishment is usually a misdemeanor.
• Barriers to Justice:
  • Fear of retaliation, including physical harm and further humiliation in court.
  • [74:52] C: “I haven't had any clients murdered yet. But you have a high risk of being murdered over this.”
  • Survivor faces an uphill battle with little support, often is forced to weigh further trauma against chances of justice.
• Website Responsibility:
  • FetLife and similar forums have little effective verification, leading to rampant non-consensual content.
  • “Double verification” praised on OnlyFans as a best practice.
  • [82:23] C: “These sites' responsibility to double verify... OnlyFans does... It's really problematic and creepy that they do not verify those things…”

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9. Healing and Community Support

• Friendship as Lifeline: Stella’s friends help gather evidence, provide emotional support, and validate her experiences.
  • [99:07] B: “The best way to support [someone] is just to let them know I'm here... keep open a line of communication.”
• Host’s Reflection:
  • Acknowledgment that escaping abusive situations is harder than it seems; love, trauma, and manipulation blur boundaries.
  • Recognition that legal and social systems are failing survivors—justice comes at a high personal cost.

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10. Advocacy and Reform

• Policy Changes Needed:
  • Tougher penalties for non-consensual sharing of intimate images; should be classified as a sex offense.
  • Mandatory verification on adult websites for all content.
  • Increased resources and procedural reform to support victims in courts.
  • [80:08] C: “I think people who do this do need to have sexual offender charges. A misdemeanor is bullshit.”
• Host Encouragement:
  • Open call for audience feedback, story sharing, supporting one another, and advocating for change.
  • [110:49] A: “You deserve to be heard.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Intuition and Manipulation

• [12:10] B (on anxiety cues): “Like, screaming at you. That's incredible. Wow.”
• [54:43] A: “To beg for you back through asking for money on cash app is crazy.”

On Digital Sexual Assault / Revenge Porn

• [67:53] C: “It's the power taken from me in that choice… I want the mistakes I make in life to be my mistakes. I don't want a man to make mistakes for me with my face.”
• [80:08] C: “I think people who do this do need to have sexual offender charges. A misdemeanor is bullshit. That is not enough.”

On Broken Justice System

• [75:03] A: “Your goal is to get... Your primary goal is to get the stuff taken down.”
• [76:34] B: “I literally hate everyone.”

On Support & Survivor Blame

• [98:48] B: “You're never gonna do anything that you're not ready to do. But I love that she still... told her friends.”
• [100:43] A: “It doesn't have to be physical.”

Spiritual Coercion

• [46:17] C: “…He would sometimes try and summon his demons to come... assist me with things. And that made me nervous.”
• [96:36] A: “That’s a manipulation. That’s a religious or spiritual whatever, manipulation. I don’t like it.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trigger Warnings & Introduction: 00:42–01:28
• Stella’s Story Begins: 04:27–07:54
• Red Flags and Control: 08:55–12:32
• Supernatural & Spiritual Coercion: 14:28, 46:17–48:22
• First Major Outburst & Public Shaming: 26:51–32:36
• Physical Violence: 57:41–58:42
• Car Accident Incident: 49:08–52:04
• Revenge Porn Revealed: 60:24–67:45
• Police & Legal System Failure: 70:45–79:57
• Host Debrief & Systemic Reflection: 95:03–111:55

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Final Thoughts and Calls to Action

• The Cost of Survival: The immense emotional, psychological, and legal weight Stella bears demonstrates how much “work” is demanded of victims, and how little is asked of abusers by current justice systems and social structures.
• Community Support Remains Key: Whether or not legal justice is served, friends, allies, and platforms like this podcast play a crucial role in validation, healing, and advocacy.
• Advocacy for Systemic Change: Listeners are encouraged to continue pushing for changes in both law and online platforms to demand real protection and justice for survivors.

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If you or someone you know is dealing with relationship abuse or digital abuse, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233.

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How to Share Your Story or Find Support

• Email the podcast: [e-mail]
• For community, support, or exclusive content, join their Patreon ($5/month or $9/month "Girlfriend Experience" for ad-free episodes and more).
• Leave kind words for Stella via comments (they'll be passed along).

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This summary does not include ad reads and is focused solely on the substantial content of the episode.

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-777, 233 for support.

[B]

Hi, Happy dating, detectives. Monday, national holiday.

[A]

Hi, everybody. Oh, we have quite a story today.

[B]

I'm. Listen, I could. Oh, but there's some trigger warnings first. I don't even know where to freaking start. This is our, I think, our first demonic episode, like, trigger warning.

[A]

We have a demonic dogfish. There's some satanic stuff, so that's something. And then there's also some definite mention of physical violence and revenge porn. And in the dogfish debrief, which, if you're new here, at the end of the episode, Mackenzie and I debrief what we can learn from the stories. And we're definitely going to do a more in depth conversation about revenge porn. But Stella, on a lighter note, is our new favorite person.

[B]

I love her so much.

[A]

Like, the best vibes.

[B]

Yeah. And I feel like she would be the best girlfriend to have and just someone really cool to have in your corner. You guys are gonna really love her.

[A]

Yeah. And as always, when you follow us on social or on whatever platform you're listening to, if you leave a comment for a guest and it's positive, we try to relay that back to them because this is, like a community we really wanna build. So thank you guys for being part of it because we need each other.

[B]

Yeah. So don't hesitate to send over your kind or just support and keep sharing on your socials. We love it when you share because then people are like, oh, I heard about your podcast. Then I listened to an episode, and the next thing you know, they're like, holy crap. I had no idea that this was, like, a thing or this is happening to me. And it's just. It can be really powerful. So we're so grateful for you guys. Thank you so much for sharing your stories.

[A]

And if you want to join the community even more, come to Patreon. $5 a month gets you access to bonus episodes. We do two bonus episodes a month. We do book club. We have a little chat where we all get to, like, hang out. We do live streams. Fun.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Very fun. And then if you wanted to do $9 a month, you get all of that, plus every episode. Normal and Patreon ad free. No ads. The girlfriend experience.

[B]

You get the whole shebang. Okay.

[C]

But no, it's.

[B]

And thank you so much to everybody who's already signed up for the Patreon. And thank you for listening. We're so grateful for you guys. You never know how your story is going to help someone, so email us investigate at the Dating Detectives podcast dot com. We want your story, and your story is valuable. It is worthy of being heard, and we would love to.

[A]

Your weapon. Can I just say your voice sometimes.

[B]

I love that quote. Your voice is your weapon.

[A]

Ella's voice is strong and she's using it.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, and super cool news, you guys. So our producer, Molly, she has a new show coming out.

[C]

It's.

[B]

I don't. What's an. Is there a name for it yet? Do we know?

[A]

Dating debrief, perhaps? Working. Working title. Basically, we're looking for some single people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're in Southern California. Southern California SoCal singles who are looking for a relationship. Not casual, like a real relationship. If you are interested in. In participating in her new show, her new podcast.

[B]

Dating Show. Podcast.

[A]

Email castingatingdebrief.com.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And say, hey, I'm single. This is where I live. This is. I'm looking for this. And I want to be on show things. But we can just say all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah. So send that. So send that email. Let's get into it. Let's let Stella take it away. Hi, Stella. Stella, we're so glad you're here. Thank you for your willingness to come and share.

[C]

So happy to be here.

[B]

We're happy you're here, but I'm not sure about the story, so I'm gonna let you take it away and we'll determine how mad we are.

[C]

You'll probably be very mad. I'm very mad. So I met this guy, Damon, who we met a couple years ago, I think on like, Tinder or something, that he's just this person that I would. We lived in the same neighborhood, so I would just kind of always see him around, but we never really interacted for some reason. And we were talking for a little bit, but for some reason, like, you guys talk about the femtuition. I don't know why. I just always got this gut feeling about him of just like, I'm not sure about this guy. And I think primarily it's because he is super hardcore into demonology and stuff.

[B]

I was gonna Say, does Damon mean demon for this guy?

[A]

Way that makes sense.

[C]

I know Damon the demonologist, but so. And I mean, I'm like chill with that stuff. Like I'm Buddhist, I'm into alternative spiritual. It's not that it necessarily scared me, it's just kind of like, I don't know, gave me pause and so sure.

[A]

If someone doesn't know what that is.

[C]

Will you say, oh, it says just spiritual path. He does like spells and he allegedly does black magic on people who he claims deserves it. And he's like, really? Like, this is like his lifestyle. So I got a little nervous about it. I thought it was a little off putting. And so we lost contact for a couple years. But we would regular the same bar a lot and we would even see each other all the time and just like make eye contact, look away from each other, just not acknowledge each other. I don't know why. We're both are also just kind of awkward people, I guess. But there was one day that I was at that bar alone, waiting for my friend to show up. I was looking real good. I was in a little like little sexy little thing and a fur coat. And I was walking out the door as he was walking in and we kind of just came face to face immediately and we were just like, oh, hi. Like in that moment we're forced to acknowledge each other. And I mean, I found him attractive still, you know, like it's. It's not like I was entirely off put by this man. And so we just started talking a bit and kind of hanging out that night a little bit. And my friend showed up and he was just being real sweet and nice. And then it kind of went from there. We started running into each other more, decided to start talking again. And like we had a night where we were just hanging out in the bed of my pickup truck. And then we got to a point where we're like cuddling a little bit and it was, it was sweet and wholesome. And then he got an Uber home and we would just go do cute wholesome things like go get dinner and go lay in a park. And had just a really sweet, soft beginning where it felt really comfortable and fun. And we're out on the town all the time and he's showing me off and just being like, this is this awesome girl I'm seeing. She's amazing. Come meet all my friends. And just made it. Yeah, just seemed like a sweet, fun, exciting relationship. And I just kind of fell into that and just had this sweetness about him that was Attractive to me. And I'm not really, like, in my whole goth getup right now, but he's kind of like, gothy guy. I'm gothy girl. And we just looked good together too. Like, I don't know, when we were together, it just felt like this cool. Like, oh, we totally look like we should be together.

[A]

Like, the idea of it.

[C]

Yeah. Like, we just make sense together. And even his demonology stuff, like, as much as it also freaked me out, it also kind of intrigued I was interested in it. I like hearing about people's interest in alternative worlds. And like I said, I'm studying journalism. I'm interested in any new thing I can learn about and something that someone really cares about. I just want to see what's up and learn about your life and your interests. So from the beginning, I just really liked him. But at the same time, the whole relationship, from the start, I felt like there was all these cosmic signs that we just should not be together. Like, the first night, we started being romantic. As I'm heading home, my tire explodes. I'm stranded. He lives kind of far away. I was screwed. So it was just little things that kept happening. And we'll get more into that as we go on. But also, in the beginning, he just seemed so normal. He would bring me roses every time we hung out. He would have a drink waiting for me at the bar. Like, my favorite drink.

[B]

Was he like, love bombing with it?

[C]

Yes. Hardcore, like, was just like, you're perfect. You're who I want to be with. Would be really sweet to my friends. I think it was the love bombing that really got me. And I would even kind of say, like, this kind of seems love bombing. He's like, yeah, but I'm trying to mean it in a healthy way. I just really am into you, you know? And I would just kind of be like, well, yeah, you know, are we just throwing that word around too much? Like, have we toxified something that actually can be nice sometimes?

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

Okay, that's he just being really sweet or is it love bombing? I can't really tell. And part of me was like, this is actually kind of nice that you're like this. So is this passion or is this love bombing? Am I over thinking this, or is this just him being a really nice guy? Because I'm also a person that really values my independence, and I need my partner to value my independence. I. I'm on my boss, bitch. Shit. Like, I need to be able to.

[B]

Sure, yeah.

[C]

Exist in the world where my partner just Supports me existing in the world and doesn't have to be so fiercely involved in everything I do. And he at first made it seem like he valued that as well. We would just hang out and if I'm with my friends, he'd be like, oh, have fun. I'll be here if you need anything. Like, if anyone messes with you, let me know. You know, another thing about he was very. And I, at first I thought this was not too much of an issue, but he started getting deeper in it where he just was really intense on gender roles in a way that I found to be kind of odd. Like he really.

[A]

But not at first.

[C]

Kind of at first, but in a way that didn't seem toxic at first. And then I realized it was toxic. I thought at first he was just very like, I want to just be a protective man that is a provider. And those things are kind of nice in a relationship. Like there's.

[A]

Yeah, chivalrous gentleman.

[C]

Yeah, he was very gentlemanly. And in ways that didn't feel toxic to me at first, they just seemed like, oh, you're just a sweet, caring, protective person. And I value that in a partner. And I don't think that's a version of toxic masculinity. But then he started stepping into that. So another thing about this relationship is it was when we got to a point where we were like, okay, let's be more official, let's start dating. We agreed that it was not going to be a monogamous relationship. Like, I definitely lean more non monogamous. I kind of have a hard time with full monogamy. It just doesn't fully make sense to me. I was raised by hippies. It just is how it is.

[B]

I mean, do you mean polyamory or do you mean like you just kind of like it's an open relationship.

[C]

It's kind of like an open thing. Like we weren't necessarily dating other people, but the option of if we wanted to sleep with other people, we could. I personally would not sleep with anyone the whole relationship. He did, but we'll also touch on that later. So he started out normal and kind and sweet. But I remember even like again, femme tuition, I wanted to not feel this way, but I just felt like I suddenly had the worst anxiety that I've had since I was a teenager. When I was around him or about to see him, I would feel sick and I just kept getting sick, would be on my way to see him and I would just feel like, ah, it's just like something that's Your body.

[B]

Like, screaming at you. That's incredible. Wow.

[C]

And I would get literally sick. Like, I just kept getting cold symptoms, and it was just. It was crazy. So. But I kept. I don't know what it was that. I mean, again, it was partially because he hadn't shown his toxic side yet. And also, I'll be real, we have really good sex. Like, I kind of was thinking with my dick. I feel like being dickmatized is real. You know what I mean?

[B]

I'm honestly, it's a real thing.

[C]

And so I feel like there's things that were keeping me there. And also this false promise of, I want this serious relationship. I want this serious thing. I want a stable future with a partner that he would talk about and I would talk about. And he wanted to someday leave the country with his partner, and I would like to do that someday too. And just little things that we would talk about in kind of a future trip type of way. And he would love bomb on top of kind of future plan with me in a way that made me think, okay, maybe if I can just ignore these tiny little red flags I'm seeing and get to a point where we could have a cool future. Another red flag that I wasn't fully seeing as a red flag at the time was the demonology stuff. And he's just a total nerd about this stuff. Like, it seems to really be a huge focus in his life. He has, like, endless, endless books on it. Endless things. Like, he has an altar in his room with all these candles and all this stuff. Like, it's highly, highly important to him. And he would try and teach me stuff about it and I would listen and I'm interested and, you know, it's interesting stories and stuff, but that's kind of more how I see it. Like, oh, these are just cool stories of. Yeah, basically, to me, it's felt like this fantasy world. Like, I don't actually think there's like these demonic half bird, half man people existing in this other plane that are giving him power to do stuff. But also, he believed it so deeply that I wasn't sure. Like, I. I don't know, it just seemed to him, it was just so real. And he would talk about, you know, like, yeah, if I find out someone's like a pedophile or something, I do black magic on them. And I'd make sure and only do it to people that really deserve it, or spells on people to get them to forget about things or not do things when we would. Sometimes if I was like, If I was on my period and I would be like, oh, so how do you feel? You know, sometimes people don't want to have sex on their period. Sometimes they're cool with it. I would be like, well, I'm okay with having sex on my period if you are. And he was like, yeah, for sure. But just know that if we have sex on your period, I see that as a blood ritual while having sex with you will be seeing this as a. I'm using your blood as kind of a sacrifice to my demon. Yes, like, as, like a sacrifice to my demons. And I kind of use your blood as an. As a. As an energy sacrifice because he would use his own blood in ritual too. And I thought it was weird and creepy and I didn't like it. But also there was still that part of me that's like, yeah, but that's not really real. So, like, I. I don't really.

[B]

Yeah, okay, whatever you say. Put your P in my V. Let's go.

[C]

Exactly. I'm not gonna, like, just not hook up for yeah. On my period just because I think you're using it as sacrifice to your demons. But also, you know, there's like, maybe he was. And in his brain, I don't know what he's thinking in his creepy, creepy brain while we're hooking up on my period, if he's like, chanting some in his head that, like, I'm now offering this woman's blood to you. So it kind of weirded me out, but I think I in those moments was like, okay, creepy, weird, but also, I want a bone.

[B]

Do what you gotta do, fella. Just get me off. Okay, so.

[A]

Really quickly, we want to tell you about our favorite new undergarments. We're genuinely obsessed with skims.

[B]

I love skims.

[A]

You guys tell me about your journey. Finding the right fit and then finding skim. Like, how hard was it?

[B]

You guys, honestly, I am someone who came from a £300 and I've lost £175. I've got some loose skin. I've got like a C section scar. My boobs aren't my. My bre don't exactly sit where I want them to. And I always struggle finding underwear. And because I have a long torso. Also bras.

[A]

It's so hard.

[B]

It really is. But I didn't realize I was just like, I was so. Just skeptical of everything. So when I heard of scams, I was like. But when I tried them, I was like, I am thoroughly impressed. You guys know I do not like gimmicks I am really impressed. I have never felt so confident in my underwear. My bras and things aren't bulging out like a busted can of biscuits. They did a good job.

[A]

Yeah. And I think, I mean, I finally tried skims after all the hype, and it did take me a while. And especially the Fits Everybody collection. I do really love that it's good quality stuff that doesn't sacrifice being sexy. Because a lot of shapewear makes me feel like a band aid.

[B]

Yeah. Like, you think granny panties. This is not that. But they do have full coverage. That's not.

[A]

Oh, totally. No, it's like, still does the job, but then, yeah, there's a wide, wide range of colors, which is important. And then also just something that fits so many different types of bodies and changing bodies and is comfortable is genuinely hard to find. Especially some of my friends with, like, big old tig ol bitties, you know, they don't have as many options for bras. Like, it sucks. The options are limited, but it doesn't suck anymore because of skims in the Fits Everybody collection.

[B]

Yeah, there's a really cool bra that has, like, it's kind of like a tank top or sports bra on the back. So if you're someone who's worried about, like, back fat or, like, the underarm area where it's a little bit more pudgy or what, I'm telling you, it has such good coverage. These are great basics for if you're a little bit more sporty or if you're an athleisure girl or if you work in the office and you like something a little bit prettier under your silk blouse. I'm telling you. Oh, my gosh. So, so good.

[A]

I tried the triangle bralette also. Loved it. I have a few pairs of underwear. Like, the barely there type. Thongs are awesome. I also literally just went back and bought some shapewear for the wedding I just went to. And I mean, I'm, I'm telling you, like, I've never had shapewear that felt good. I always lose, like, it's, it's nice.

[B]

To hear you say that.

[A]

It doesn't feel good.

[B]

No, same. You're. And it's so funny because your body is much different than mine. So even though our bodies are so different, Hannah is very tall and slender, and I'm a little bit bigger, a little bit softer in all the areas and all the things. They're so different. But we both have just expressed how great we feel and how comfortable we feel. I, I, I. Molly loves it.

[A]

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[C]

Another thing I want to mention, he also was really adamant that we share our locations with each other. And this early in a relationship, usually that made me nervous, but for some reason I was like, I don't know why. It just made me feel like I wanted to prove to him that, you know, it's. I don't know why. Like, I don't even know why I would accept. That's cool.

[B]

Like I'm cool, it's fine. Yeah.

[C]

So he wanted to start sharing our locations with each other and oh, within like a few weeks. Our whole relationship only lasted not even two months. So everything I'm telling you guys was in a one to two month period.

[B]

So every few weeks he's like wanting to share a location.

[C]

Yeah. And part of that reason that he told me once is he claims it was for his safety. He's a black man and he would kind of use that sometimes as an explanation as for why certain things happened. And so like he wanted to share location for he claimed his safety and he wanted to have the people in his life know where he's at.

[B]

So.

[C]

And I was like, okay, that makes sense to me. And he had this also very like kind of dominant presence about him and he wanted the woman he's with to be. I could tell he just really wanted me to be kind of submissive and go along with the things he wanted. And he would even say that, like, I just think that you should just let me lead some things. And again, I'm such an independent boss type person. I never ever let men be like that with me. But just something about this guy, I just allowed that to happen. And it was kind of fun to, to me to like, in my daily life I'm this dominant force of a person and in my professional life I'm a dominant force and my social life, I'm that way. So sometimes it's nice to let go and just have someone that I trust and I'm really into to take the lead a bit. And I think that's why I fell into it because I've also had, you know, I've had a really hard couple years. I've had a lot of stuff happen, like a lot of deaths. And I'm just tired, frankly. He caught me at a point where I'm like, Traumatized and tired. And I kind of did need someone to step in and take the role a little bit for me because I was so tired of carrying my life myself. So he honestly just caught me in a bad time, in a time that I was more attracted to the idea of letting go of a little bit of control, which, again, totally out of character for me normally. But it just made sense to me. There was just all these little things that made sense. And he also mentioned once, which made me nervous, that he had served. He was living in a different state, his home state, and before he moved to my state, served a month in jail because of a fight with an ex. Oh, a month? Yeah, a whole month. But he claimed that in this state, the rules are basically, if someone calls for a domestic dispute, they take away at least one person just to kind of make it cool down. And for the sake of.

[B]

Oh, I heard that's a thing. Okay, yeah, somebody's going to jail.

[C]

Yeah. So he claimed it was that, and he also claimed it was kind of a racist thing. Like, he was like, my partner was white. I'm black. They took that and ran with it. And that's why I ended up in jail. And I was like, okay, for a night. That makes sense if you were in jail for a night to kind of. But not a month, but a month. Something had to happen to see a month in jail. Like, there are people who do really atrocious things that do not serve a month in jail.

[B]

You know, that's what I was just thinking.

[C]

Yeah. So again, he. He claimed it was kind of a racist thing, which he knows I'm an activist. I'm studying journalism. Like, he knows I'm like, oh, yeah, of course.

[A]

Like, yeah, you're not gonna tell him. He's. You can't deny his experience on that.

[C]

Of course, because that does happen. And that's real. And so I was like, oh, well, I'm sure that's how it was. And it was a conservative state. And so I'm just like, yeah, that checks out.

[A]

I was just gonna ask if there was any documentation or Internet trail of his arrest.

[C]

I have tried to do a background check on him. My friend had a background check service. We could only find one felony he had as a teenager for trespassing, Just, like, hanging out in an abandoned building, which is, like, total. Some teen shit. Like, that's really not an offensive.

[B]

So he lived somewhere else somewhere.

[C]

But I looked in the state that it was from, the same state that he claimed he served a month of jail in so he did have an arrest record in that state, but not that month, which I feel like that would be on there. So I, I still to this day don't, I can't explain it. He's never shown me any evidence of it. I've never seen the mug shot and I don't know why. Also, he would lie about that. Like, hey, I served a month in jail because of a domestic dispute. That's not like a flex. I just don't see the point in why he lied. But I also have not been able to find evidence of that. So, you know, that was a red flag to me. Obviously anyone who served time, especially a month over a fight with an ex is a big deal. So the first time I started to see, like, I started to see the cracks in the foundation, I showed up to meet him at our regular bar, looked real cute. He brought, he gave me a rose. Same usual shit. Like he would literally have a rose for me almost every time I saw him. Super sweet. And we're hanging out outside with his friends. He's talking to his group of friends. I'm kind of just there. And this person walks by who I'd met once before at the bar. And they were like, hey, what's up? And I walked up and was like, oh, hey, how are you doing? And we just kind of caught up. They said they were going to a little event down the street. They invited me. I was like, cool, I might go check it out. And I assumed that he was behind me, still talking to his friends. Like, I. They were literally in a group. I wasn't even, like, it made sense for me to just kind of step away, go say hi to this person. And this person is like non binary masc lesbian and very mask presenting. And I'm pansexual. So he took it like as a threat. Like I went after our interaction, I went back up to him and I was like, hey. And he just, was like, just go to your rave. Just go, just go to that event.

[B]

Can you, can you clarify for the audience just. So just in case anybody's not familiar with these terms, will you help kind of define some of those pansexual and non binary stuff like that?

[C]

Totally. So being pansexual, I'm attracted to whoever I like. Men, women, non binary people, trans people. It doesn't matter to me if I like you. I like you. So this person being a non binary masc lesbian. Masc as in masculine, was a threat? Yeah, so because he knows I'm could be attracted to anyone. I think he took it as like, who's this? Who are you talking to? So when I went back up to him, he literally lightly pushed me away and was just like, just go, like, go to your thing. And I was like, wait, what's. What's going on? I. I don't get it. And he was like, you are so fucking disrespectful. Like, how dare you?

[B]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[C]

He's like, how dare you talk to a young stud in front of me and not introduce me? Like, I need to know exactly who is in your life. I need to know who this person is. If someone is going to be important enough to interrupt me, our conversation, which I wasn't even talking to him. He was talking to his friends. Like, if any. If someone is important, like, because I literally had just met this person, I didn't actually even know their name.

[A]

You're literally just like, hey, what's up? Oh, good to see you. Oh, cool.

[C]

Like, super casual. I didn't introduce them because I was embarrassed by the fact I didn't know their name. You know, Like, I'm really bad with names. And so I was like, dude, honestly, they're not like a person in my life. This is just someone I met at the bar. Like, if it were one of my friends or an established person in my life, sure, I'll introduce you. But I just didn't think this called for that. And he was like, I don't know how you could possibly not see it as disrespectful that you're talking to a masculine presenting person in front of me and not introducing me. Like, loss. His shit was screaming at me in the bar, in front of the bar. And I was just so shocked by this. I didn't understand it. I don't get it. Because I'm also just a really social person. And he saw it as unladylike for going and talking to people and that he. Honestly, the more I got to know him, the more I was like, you just want women to be seen, not heard.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, sounds like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Who didn't really. Like, if I was a. And I'm like a social. I like connecting with people. So I sometimes am out talking to people and I'm not going to just ignore this person who's saying hi to me. Because you're insecure, basically.

[B]

Right? Right.

[C]

And I kept saying that. I was like, so you're insecure? Like, you're. You're sounding insecure. And yeah. He's like, don't say that. That's not true. And I remember being so shocked by this, I just walked away. I went straight home and he tried to grab kind of my bag and pull me back. And I was like, no, I'm leaving. And I, like, was crying, walking down the street through the rose in a trash can. Like, it was like super dramatic, you know, just like, yeah, justifiably so.

[A]

Justifiable.

[C]

Yeah. And it was my first time seeing him be this intense, controlling person. And I was like, whoa, you have given me the sense that you value my independence up until this point. And so I'd felt safe to be. Be myself up until this point.

[A]

When you had a conversation earlier about being non monogamous. A lot of times those conversations are really respectful and mature.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I could see him maybe like putting out that energy at first and then this being a 180, but it also is kind of. I imagine the listeners are like, didn't he say you guys could be non monogamous? And now he's yelling at you for talking to someone.

[C]

Really? And that's what also confused me is I was just like, I. I just don't get this. And this is also not a person I'm into or sleeping with. I'm like, dude, this is like a. Just this little buddy basically, like, why are you so threatened? And it just didn't match how he had presented how he feels up until that point. So I go home, I'm upset and crying and I think I was kind of drunk too, and it just made it so much worse. And then I get home, I decide like, okay, I think I'm gonna. There's like 10 times I've said to myself, okay, I'm gonna end things. That's how manipulative he was. I always somehow got bamboozled back. And so I go home, sleep it off. And the next morning I wake up to a text from him with a link to Tumblr, who, by the way, a 28 year old man still using Tumblr, I don't know. And in 2025, like, I think that's.

[B]

I thought Tumblr was dead.

[C]

I thought so too. But he is an avid user of it, he loves Tumblr and he had made a post about me, this whole long manifesto with my picture of me that night, but with my eyes cut out and it's just like a body down with me holding the from it. And it's literally just this huge long thing about like, I was so disrespected outside my bar in front of my friends by this girl I'm seeing, and it's just him putting me on blast. And it's. I'm not kidding. Paragraphs, long paragraphs about how he could not believe the disrespect and how he could not believe that I would ever do this to him. It was the most unhinged shit I'd seen. And I was like, whoa. And first of all, why are you posting this online?

[B]

Yeah, what is he trying to get out of that?

[C]

I don't know. I'm like, what. What. What is this? I was so confused by it, and my friends were really weirded out, and my sister was weirded out, and just, like, I would be, too. Everyone in my life was like, what? This guy's unhinged. You know? And then I don't even know what happened. We ended up meeting up to talk about all this because I was just like, I don't. I don't get why you did that. I don't get why you're freaking out. Like, you don't need to worry about stuff like that. Also, we're not monogamous. And so he was just tripping, and I don't know what happened. Somehow he talked me into still being with him. And again, as I tell this story, every time I talk about it, I'm like, that should have been it. Like, that should have been when I left. That should have been the final. Like, oh, you're the first sign of. You're totally crazy. But I don't know what it is that kept me there.

[B]

And so you are not the only one that has felt that way. Every single damn one of us have been there.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. Totally. So embarrassing.

[A]

But don't I. We can't take away. I know. I wish we could just take away the. That shame feeling, because it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I think we all have it. Do you remember anything about that conversation?

[C]

Not really. Like, I honestly had to have a council meeting with all my friends about this yesterday just to get all these details together because I feel like my brain has deleted a lot of things or muddled a lot of things because it was just such a chaotic relationship, and so much trauma has come from it, and it only gets worse. And so the little details like that, I actually don't fully remember. There were so many things.

[B]

That's a real thing.

[C]

Yeah. We're also. It just. This relationship took so much of my energy and time and brain power that I've tried really hard to just let it go for my own peace. Because if I think about him or this time, I get a cortisol dump and I am pissed and I just go into this rage trance and it's just something I have to just kind of.

[B]

You want to protect yourself from that?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. So one of my favorite types of therapy is going to the hairdresser or even my tattoo artist. So we definitely turn to some interesting places for support. But how great would it be if the same kind of conversations you have with your hairdresser or your tattooer artist or whoever, your unpaid therapist, how great would it be if you could find them in an actual therapist? And you can. With Better Help, you can get guidance from a credentialed therapist online. So Better Help has been helping people find their match with a therapist for over 10 years and they have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct. They're fully licensed in the US And I love that I can turn to them with flexibility and convenience so I don't even have to like leave my house to go to therapy. It's as easy as a video chat. And you can connect with a therapist that you really like. You can switch your therapist at any time. They have over 30,000 therapists. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform and they've served over 5 million people globally. So click of a button, super easy, helping you fit your therapy into your busy life. And they have the tools and resources to share with you to help you cope with whatever you're going through in your life. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, Better Help can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with Better Help. Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] TDD that's Better Help. H E L P.com TDD.

[C]

I will say, like my brain definitely deleted some of these details. And so, you know, we're still seeing each other. He's still wanting this serious relationship. It's going to be healthy, we're going to be fine, whatever. And then fast forward a little bit. So for context, the ex, the last long term relationship I was in, him and I are still really close. Like we consider each other family, basically. He's still close with my family. We still hang out sometimes. It's totally platonic. And it's weird. My whole family's like that. Like everyone's ex husbands and wives still comes to Thanksgiving and Christmas. We're just a really again I was raised by hippies. Like, we just have a very.

[B]

It's kind of mature too. Not a lot of people.

[C]

Totally. And him and I just still love each other a lot, but as a family, more like connection than anything now. Like, we don't have romantic feelings for each other. We've talked about that.

[A]

Damon's gonna love this.

[C]

And I've told him before, like, hey, this. This person's still in my life. He's extremely important to me. You have to be cool with that. That's just like, bottom line, you know? And there was a time where I went to go get dinner with my ex. And this is where it gets a little bit more controversial. Like, some people can totally say, yeah, I'd be pissed if my partner got dinner with their ex. That's valid. But he knew I was still friends with this person. And he also. Again, we're in an open relationship, but I'm also. I'm not sleeping with my ex. We are not together at all. He's like a brother, cousin to me at this point, you know, so we just get dinner here and there and we'll catch up and then go about our lives. And so it was one of the days where we went and got dinner. And Damon was texting me throughout this time and I just wasn't looking at my phone. And so he started getting more pissed because he's also watching my location. And he's like, where are you at? What's going on? And we meet up that night. And he was like, so who are you with? And I was like, well, I was with my friend who is my ex. And he was like, okay, right? And so we just start hard, hard fighting. And we go around the corner, he's screaming at me. He grabs my phone from my hand and starts like. And He's. He's like 6, 4. He's a 6 4, like 250 pound dude. I'm 5 3. He's like a large man. So he's looking through my phone and starts reading our texts and does not like that we talk. We weren't like. Like, our messages are so platonic, but they're just very nice to each other. We're just nice to each other. We're like, hey, had a great time, like, sending love, you know, we're just really like, positive.

[A]

Say hi to your mom. Yeah. Your family. It sounds like.

[C]

Yeah, it's just like positive. We're just talk in nice ways to each other. But there's again, nothing about it that is romantic or sexual. And he takes my phone from me. I'm jumping up like a little kid. Like, no, give that back. I'm crying, and he's freaking out on me. And the ironic part about this is, before this even happened, I had seen him spend the whole night in random locations. And I've confronted him before. Like, hey, so just checking. Are you seeing someone? And he was like, well, if you can't trust me, then I don't think this is gonna work out. Like, I.

[B]

Wait, but weren't you okay with it? You just wanted to know?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't, like, freaking out on him. I just was like, hey, so are you seeing someone? And I do kind of need to know things about that, because also, we don't use protection with each other, so.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

You know when you.

[B]

Informed consent is what that's called, when.

[C]

You'Re kind of, like, trusting that someone is maybe gonna kind of tell you. Because I know that he doesn't like to use condoms, and I'm positive he wasn't with other people, you know, so.

[B]

That is absolutely something we should be sharing each other.

[C]

Totally. So.

[A]

And you don't have to go into detail, but there is, like, a yes or no. I'm sleeping with other people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you deserve that.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

I hate that he just turned it on you every time.

[C]

Yeah. And he just took it as like, you don't trust me and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh. And that's why when I was hanging out with my ex, I was just kind of like, well, I mean, you also work at random locations, and I don't know what you're doing or who you're with. Like, this also is something you've done, and I'm actually being open with you about what I'm doing and who I'm with. And I'm being very clear again, this is not someone I'm sleeping with. And this is also when my friends. Like, this is the first time I ever said out loud, because my friends were at the. The bar that night, too, and I met back up with him because I disappeared for a while, and suddenly I'm coming back sobbing, and my eyeliners everywhere, and they're like, what's going on? And I. I was like, honestly, guys, I think I'm in an abusive relationship, but I don't feel ready to leave. And that was the first time I'd said the words, I'm in this. And I, for some reason, feel that I cannot leave this man. And I don't get it.

[B]

I want to Talk about that later. I would love to dive more into that because that is so such a bold, brave thing to say. Like, I recognize what I'm doing. I recognize what this is, but I'm not ready to leave. It's. So I would love to dive more into that later on.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. Because I've been in pretty abusive relationships in the past where I'm literally getting beaten by dudes, you know, well, one. One person had done that to me, but we were trapped together in lockdown in Covid, where I had a man who was physically abusive to me, and we literally could not leave each other because we could not move. And so, like, I've been in survival mode where I'm in an abusive relationship, and I've at that instance, like, I could. I just couldn't leave. But this one, I could, but I don't know what the hell it was that just made me still unable. Still didn't feel ready. Like, it's something. Felt like not bad enough yet. Even though it totally was bad enough to leave. Like, those are. You know, I don't. I've never had someone grab my phone and read my text. I don't like that. I think that's totally a privacy. I don't think that's good. And so again, somehow after this, we're still okay. But he will not drop. Also the instance of when I ran into a person and spoke to them. Oh, Lord, he keeps bringing that up. He keeps bringing up that I hung out with my ex. Like, he just doesn't drop things, and he's still just so angry about them. And so we would still get in fights for that. We would get in fights also a lot for. So he was. He was unemployed. Well, he's employed in the sense that he's a drug dealer, but he was.

[B]

Like, he's not legally gainfully employed.

[C]

He's not legally employed. And so he had a lot of time on his hands. He spent a lot of time at bars working, quote, unquote. And that was something I really wanted to keep separate. Like, I wanted to, like, just not really acknowledge that he does that. And he wouldn't really make it my problem. I have dated people before in that field, and even though it's so different than my field, I'm a super hyper, professional person. There's this, like, toxic side of me that's like, sure, that's fine that you're a drug dealer, as long as you don't bring it into my life. I don't know what's wrong with Me, but like, again, he had a lot of time to kill. And I'm a full time student. I'm a freelancer. Like, I'm working really hard to reach my goals. And I'm currently living in some of my goals. And so I'm a really busy person. And also both my grandparents died in the last year. I'm managing their estate. I'm having to deal with like, clearing out their house.

[B]

That must be so hard.

[C]

Totally. And my mom passed away when I was a kid and it was her parents. So I'm kind of taking on the role of what would have been her job, kind of.

[B]

And that's a lot emotionally. So much.

[C]

It's so much. I'm dealing with so much. And so, like, I just have a lot on my plate during this time. And still to this day.

[A]

And sometimes doesn't leaving feel like, exhausting? You were talking about being exhausted, the point of getting into the relationship. But I feel like breakups, whether they're abusive or not, are exhausting on their own. Totally to it.

[C]

Yeah. And he would start to kind of be even like, well, it seems like you don't have time to be in a relationship and be in school. Are you sure you want to be in school? Like, if you want to be with me? Haven't you considered maybe not being quitting school? Like, oh my God, you think I would. I'm not quitting school for anyone.

[B]

Like, yeah, who would ever even encourage that?

[C]

It's crazy. Like, I would have to do homework. And he's like, well, you just don't have time for me. And I'm like, well, yeah, I have a. A path that I'm on. I take it really seriously. I'm an honor student. Like, it's really important to me. And so he just would lightly encourage me to drop out. Lightly encourage me to, you know, just really would throw tantrums that I don't. If I wanted to spend time with friends, that's an issue. If I wanted just alone, time of silence, that's an issue. And so it started to kind of be just this, like, him always having an issue with me having a life outside of him. And I would tell him that, like, hey, it seems like anytime I'm doing anything outside of you, it's an issue to you. And that doesn't really work for me. And he's just like, well, you're supposed to have time for me. I like to spend time with my partner. We haven't even been able to go on a full date in weeks because you're just so busy. And by that he means I haven't been able to dedicate a full 24 hours to him. And to me I'm like, I don't even have 24 hours for myself, dude. I'm so busy and overwhelmed by my life. I actually don't even have really have much time to just hang out by myself and have alone time and time with my puppy. And he just made it this whole thing. So I started feeling really sick and anxious around him still. That anxious feeling was getting worse and worse. Like it would be at a point where every time I drove to him, I was convinced I was going to get in a car accident or something. And I just kept feeling like, ah, just like I even told my friends once, I was like, I don't know why, but I intuitively feel like something bad is going to happen to me if I stay with this man. Or like I'm going to die if I stay with this man. Like, it was that extreme, my, my anxiety about him. And I started just noticing it more and more. And so I would try and explain to him this. Because of course, since he was a spiritual person, I would try and explain this anxiety to him. Like, I don't know, I just feel this intuitive anxiety. And he would just be like, well, I don't get it. Like, and he would. We would try and do like meditations together and things like that. And he would sometimes try and summon his demons to come.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Like, assist me with things. And that made me nervous.

[B]

And it's like, what do you mean, assist me?

[A]

You can keep those.

[C]

Totally. Yeah.

[A]

Don't need the.

[C]

I just didn't wanna. And he really was good at convincing me that he was this kind of like, powerfully spiritual person. He had this pendulum that when he would hold it, it would just go crazy.

[B]

Like he wanted to scare you.

[C]

Yeah. But then when I would hold it, it would be just completely still. And he's like, because you don't have the same energy as I do and the same, like all this trying to intimidate you. Yeah. He would again kind of hold it over my head that he like does spells on people. And he had a friend who had an ex that was really bothering him and then he did a spell on her and he never heard from her again. And how he just does all these very effective spells and curses and all this. And he was very for real about it. He wouldn't necessarily say that he's gonna do that to me, but he mentioned it so much about how he's done it to other people that it's enough to scare you. So, yeah, it did make it so it seemed like a threat. It did put the seed in my brain of he, I'm sure, could do this to me, and I'm sure has. Because he would always talk about. He's like, I meditate on you all the time. I call my demons and talk about our relationship all the time. They are working with me and working with us and would make it seem like it was like, this is just part of his routine is he would call upon them to help with the problems in our relationship. And it made me nervous. And so again, we're. We're fighting all this stuff. Eventually, again, I try to leave because even though I wasn't ready to leave, I did quite a few times try to leave. And every single time, he would just be like, please don't do this. We can be so good. Think about this future we could have together. Yeah. Like, he would switch back into his sweet self and gentleman self, and I would be like, okay. Oh, but okay. And then we would hook up and forget about it. And it just made. Just made it harder to leave.

[A]

That's also a pattern where it's like, after an abusive argument or an attempt at leaving, having a intimate connection.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Conditions them together.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

Exactly. And it's. It's very much beyond our, like, logic.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

Especially because we had a really good sexual connection. It just would sometimes make me forget about it. And so then we are kind of ending things. I'm still being a little weird or I'm being weary about it. And he's like, hey, so I have this extra ticket. Me and all my friends are gonna go see Final Destination. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds fun. I really.

[B]

When was this relationship? Like, recent. Recent. Recent.

[C]

Super recent. Because this was opening weekend of Final Destination.

[B]

Yeah. Final Destination just came out.

[C]

Yeah. So this was pretty recent. And I had this feeling that I shouldn't go. But then I was like, but I mean, that sounds fun. And so we went and we took my car because we were driving his friends, and he was driving, and he does not have a license driving my car. And so we go, we see the movie, and as we're leaving, I literally feel sick to my stomach. Like something horrible is about to happen. I know it. But also, I just saw Final Destination, so I'm like, whoa.

[B]

I was gonna say, you just have a Final Destination.

[C]

Yeah. So, like, I'm an anxious person. I like, you know, every Time you see a movie, you feel kind of like that's kind of your life now for a second, you pick up on the story and the characters and you're like, now that's gonna happen to me. And so I was able to rationalize it because I'm like, well. But it was that same type of feeling I got every time I see him. Like this. Like, sick. Like something bad's gonna happen.

[B]

Your body's screaming at you.

[C]

Yeah, but of course I'm rationalizing it with like, well, duh, I just saw that movie. There's no way I'm not gonna feel that. And so we're driving back and I cannot drop this feeling. I'm about to cry. I cannot stop feeling so anxious. And then we get in a horrific car accident and my car gets totaled.

[B]

What?

[C]

Like, yes, my car is completely totaled. A car drives on top of the hood of my car, smashes into a wall. We pull off and like, wow. And he was driving and his friends are in the back and we. His friends are really tall. And so my seat's super pulled up to give them more space. So I'm like, slam my knee into the dash. I'm still injured. Like, my back. I'm in like physical therapy and chiropractor and acupuncture, like multiple times a week. I'm in everyday pain still. So we're in this terrible car accident and all of his friends have so many drugs on them, so I'm really trying to also protect them. And he doesn't have a license, so he's like, dude, I don't have a license. Like, what are we gonna do? So I claim that I was driving.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Luckily it wasn't my. It wasn't our fault. So either way, it was gonna be okay still. And so we get out.

[A]

License? Why didn't he have a license?

[C]

I don't know. He's just a bum. But like, he. He's a baby. Adult baby. And so we all get out of the car, we climb up the wall of the freeway because this was on the freeway too. And so we climb up the wall. Because I was in my brain, I'm like, there's gonna be a pile up. Like it was around a curve. Like, we're all getting out on an exit. And so we're just hanging out on this wall. His friends start sparking joints and talking shit and yelling. And I'm like, guys, cops are on the way.

[B]

What are you doing?

[C]

Can you not. I'm like, dude, can you handle your boys? Like, what the is this? You guys have, like, felony levels of drugs on you.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

Trying to get up. And I'm like, you know, talking to the cops, trying to be the one handling all this, because I'm with, yeah, crazy people. And it. It was so terrible. It really was a terrible accident. And my car's completely. And he also just really wants to take this as a trauma bond and is like, we survive this other thing together. And I was like, together. And I'm like, no. To me, this is a sign that we are cursed. And the irony also of leaving Final Destination and getting in an accident is still crazy to me. Like, this whole thing, it's nuts. And so the cops drove us to the precinct. We had to Uber back to my house. My car gets towed out, and he's asleep in my bed, and I'm just feeling so sick, and I. I just am like, no, I need you out of my space. I can't even handle this. I literally woke him up and was like. And also, I was in a lot of pain, and I had a kind of a tiny bed, and he's a big dude. And I was like, dude, honestly, I need you to go home. Like, I can't be around you. I'm in pain. I need to be able to sleep well tonight. You need to sleep well. So he gets an Uber home in the middle of the night. He's obviously pissed. I mean, that makes sense. He was mad because I literally woke him up and was like, leave in the middle of the night after we just went through such an insane thing. But at that point, I just was like, this is so bad, because when I called my friends about it and sent them pictures, they were like, you're with him, huh? Because I've been kind of hiding that I was still seeing him. Because at this point, my friends were like, we are literally concerned about your safety at this point. We need you to leave this, man. This is crazy. But we're still hanging out and hooking up, and I just was kind of being sneaky, honestly. And so I texted them, being like, okay, guys, just to be clear, I was with Damon. He will be coming over tonight, but please be easy on me, because this just happened. And they were like, no, we're still pissed. And we knew bad things are going to happen with him. And of course this happens. And at this point, we're actually concerned for your life. And so I kick him out. He's pissed. I send him a text the next morning being like, okay, this, to me, is a final straw. I Think that we clearly only attract bad things with each other. I sent him this huge thing and I blocked his number. And then he sends me you a cash app request for $90 saying, I had to Uber home. You just got paid and I had to Uber home. And like, baby, no, please. Like, this is not a sign where this. If anything, we should be closer because of this. And I honestly, to beg for you.

[A]

Back through asking for money on cash is crazy.

[C]

I know he had done that a couple times when I've tried to leave him. Like, he would just send a cash app request of, like, okay, well, I spent this money on you, so. And I'm like, oh, right, yeah, because you're an unemployed person who's just, like, making me, yet also had this whole, like, I'm the man, I take care of things. And I'm like, then why am I paying for our dates and paying for our Ubers and driving your ass around everywhere? And so after this accident, when I tried to cut things off, he was like, we need to meet up and talk about this. Which, again, I shouldn't have done. We met up and talked, and I told him, like, I really do feel like there's this fork in the road. I feel like I can literally see two paths in front of me. One of them is me staying with you. One of them is me not. And I see the one of me staying with you cutting my life short. Like, I literally see my path shortened with you. And I really feel strongly about that. It's this intuitive, like, I will die if I stay with you. And he literally was like, well, we're all gonna die anyways, so.

[B]

So it's fine.

[C]

It's five die sooner with me. And I was like, well, I don't really see it that way. I still would really like to live a long, healthy life. And. No. What? Like, he just seems so, like, well, I mean, we're all gonna die, so why? What? What? Almost as if. Why would you see that as a bad thing? And I'm like, what? Like, it was just psychosis. And I just was like, you know, this is a big deal to me. I just can't do this anymore. I really see this as a huge deal. But we did. I don't know how it happened. We ended up hooking up, and afterwards we're hanging out and I'm explaining to him that the next day I was going to go to. There was a cool boat rave happening on a lake, and it was this cool event that I was going to go with my friend My homegirl. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go to this event with my friend. And he was like, what the fuck? And I'm like, what? And he's like, why do you have time for your friends but you don't have time for me? You did not have that plan a week ago. Why do you suddenly have this plan but you can't make plans to have full days with me? And I was like, because this event sounds awesome and it's summer and I'm going with my best friend on a boat rave. Why would. It's a five dollar event. Like why would I not go? And he was like, you know what, get the out of my house. Like, I can't do this anymore. And I was like, happily. Cool. And so I start packing up my stuff and he's like, look at me. And I just didn't look at him. And then he grabs me by the throat super hard. And again, he's a large man, grabs me by the throat and turns my face to him and is like, you fucking look at me. And I pushed him off of me. And I was like, are you out of your mind?

[B]

Uh huh. He is.

[C]

Did you really just grab me by the throat? And he was like, oh, you like it? And I'm like, are you kidding me? In this context? Absolutely not. There's nothing appropriate about grabbing your part. I get that some people enjoy that in a sexual setting, but like this was in a fight and so he grabbed me and I was like, no, that's it, dude, that's abuse. Like, how do you not see that as abuse? And I was like, oh, I'm getting the hell out of here. You will never see me again. This is for real this time. And it was, this was actually the final thing because I don't as much as, you know, I accepted other types of abuse from him and all these forms of manipulation and spiritual manipulation, the physical stuff is a hard, hard line for me. And this was also right after our accident. We're still injured and so yeah, he choked me. I left immediately. That was it, it, it. We never, we have not spoken since.

[A]

And thank goodness.

[C]

So we're finally broken up, we're finally done. And his best friends all work in a place directly below where I work. So he is always in the same area as I am. It is completely unavoidable. And so I kept finding him just outside my work building. And I had to start telling my boss like, hey, I'm honestly like, I can't really be working there. That Much like this guy is just everywhere, and he's hanging out in cars parked next to mine. And so I kept seeing him. We didn't interact. We haven't. We still have yet to ever speak again after that instance.

[A]

Did he see you?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay, so he would. You just wouldn't. He wasn't, like, intimidating you or anything, but he was just by being there.

[C]

He was just intimidating me by being present.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I shouldn't. That is very intimidating in itself. Yeah.

[C]

And his friends are also kind of intimidating. They're all considered each other in a quote unquote gang. It's not a real gang. They're just a bunch of, like, rowdy boy, lame dudes that, you know, are just claim that they're this. Like, we're a gang. Like, it's. It's just corny. It's, like, not real. And so it's just us against the world now. Like, me and my friends, and we're thinking, like, God, well, how can we get it out there that this guy is abusive? And we tried posting him on are we dating the same guy? And a couple people were like, yeah, he sucks. Blah, blah, blah. And then I get an anonymous message from a burner account on Instagram saying, there are porn videos of you online.

[B]

No, you shut up.

[C]

And I remember, like, because him and I, we would make videos sometimes because I think that's the most ethical version of porn is porn of yourself. It's, like, kind of fun. And making videos with your partner I don't think is a bad thing.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But I remember the first time we made a video, I didn't know he was recording.

[B]

Oh, no, that is a felony and a half.

[C]

Yeah. I was faced away, and then I looked back and realized he was videotaping. And I was like, oh, okay, well, that's. That's cool. Like, I was actually gonna suggest we make a video, but he did it without, like, we didn't really talk first. And I. I did have an onlyfans for a little bit, and I was gonna post these on it. And we had talked about that, but my only fans is super lockdown private. I control who sees things and who doesn't. It's a very. Like, there's, like, barely anyone subscribed to my page. I barely use it. But it was always, like, I had control because, I mean, in the field I want to be in with, like, journalism and stuff, your credibility counts. We live in a world where if someone finds a bunch of porn of you online, they might take you less Seriously, Unfortunately. And it shouldn't be like that, but it is. And so I wanted to kind of have control of where things went. So he had briefly mentioned to me once, ever super brief, that he kind of had interests of maybe being a porn star and how he had, like, a porn Twitter that he ran, but he never brought it up again. It was super like, yeah, I've just had this idea before, but I didn't dig on that. When he told me that, he almost made it seem like it was something he did in the past. And so I was just like, oh, well, that's cool. I'm a really open person. I don't care, like, whatever. And so the first time it happened, he was recording. I didn't know, but I was ultimately okay with it. But I kind of in my brain was like, oh, weird that you just started, like, recording without saying anything.

[B]

A little shitty. Yeah.

[A]

It's illegal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Not to mention.

[C]

So it was a little odd. And. And, you know, we had kind of talked about posting stuff before, but I didn't end up posting anything. We just didn't do it because we didn't verify him on only F. But then I got that message from that burner account, and I'm like, what? Like, I was like, is this a fake message? Is this a scam? Is this something? You know, it was just so odd and.

[A]

Oh, that's a good point. I didn't even think of that. But if I got a scam text that was like, there's a picture of you, I would click any link to make sure.

[C]

Totally. But they didn't send a link. They just sent like, you are online, basically. I to this day don't know who said that. I asked like, so how do you know me, though? How were you able to put two and two together?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And also how do you know that I didn't consent to that? So that's why some people I've brought this up to actually think it was him who messaged me. And, you know, kind of like murderers, they sometimes leave little clues because they want to be caught, you know, Like, I personally am not sure if it was him who sent that to me, but who knows? So I had tried to get to know who this was. They just wouldn't respond. But I said to them, like, I did not consent to this. So I go on to FetLife and I literally just looked up the city I live in, and I'm the first person that came up, and he was too.

[B]

So FetLife is a FetLife is a, like a fetish website.

[C]

Like, yeah, it's basically like a community forum for sexual. Basically, like, I don't know, like sex Reddit, you could say, like there's different.

[B]

Like, forum for like. Yeah, like different. It's not necessarily a dating site, but you can post on there. Kind of like Reddit.

[C]

Yeah. So it's basically you can look up specific kinks you have and connect with community people who have the same kinks.

[B]

And it's like minded people. Yeah, yeah, it's lifestyle.

[C]

And they claim they're a very safe, consensual based site. That is clearly not true because they don't do double verification. Like OnlyFans does. Like, OnlyFans will not let you post anything without knowing that even. I mean, there's no way to even tell that the person in the video is 18.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, they're not double verifying. So it's like there could even be child porn on there that no one knows because it's just not being checked.

[A]

That's the problem with so many websites.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's fucked up. And so I looked at my city. Him and I are the first people that come up. Crazy first people. And I find his page and I am just sick. There are so many videos and pictures of me with my face, like my. I have a bunch of tattoos. I'm very identifiable, like everything. And he didn't post any of these after we broke up. He had been posting it our whole relationship.

[B]

Oh, my God. Did you call? What did you do? What did you do? Oh, my God.

[C]

And posted audio recordings of him sleeping with other girls, which means I really do not think they knew, which in my state is a felony.

[B]

There's.

[C]

We are. We're in a double consent state with audio recordings. So there's audio, which means he just pressed record and hit his phone somewhere and recorded. Yes. And he put the names of these girls where he met them.

[B]

No.

[C]

Are you serious? It's like a sex diary to him. And you can't make money on this page either. So he's just doing this for the thrill.

[A]

Like, is his name on anything?

[C]

Yes, his face is in these two. And he had all these things written about the things we were doing and just made it very, like, porny. And everything we ever made together was online. And so I'm freaking out. And it's so funny because he has this disclaimer on his page that's like. It's so funny because his page is mostly white women and he has this disclaimer that says like, yeah, so the only reason you don't see any other types of girl is because these are the only girls that actually consented to having their videos up. To be clear, I sleep with all types of women, so don't be afraid to hit me up. Like, my gosh, like, I am a dog and I love all women, but these are just the only women that actually consented to their photos online. And I really care about consent and all this stuff. And I was like, interesting because I did not consent to any of this. And I found even his ex, the one that's like barely 18. I found her videos on there too. And they dated like a year or two ago, so it's extensive. And there's also pictures of the girl that he was cheating on me with. So I had confirmation that also, like, you were. I guess it wasn't cheating because we're open. But when I thought you were with someone, you were with someone. You made me seem like I was crazy for asking. But you were. And you have audio record. That's just so weird to me. The audio recordings, like, what's the point of that?

[B]

Come on.

[C]

And so illegal. And so I'm freaking out. And he mentions on his page that he also has a porn Twitter account and I still have yet to find that, so I don't technically know if my photos are still online. And so I report what was it.

[A]

Really just really quick. I mean, don't go into it more than you feel comfortable, but how does it feel to find that?

[C]

Oh, horrifying. Like, I was so, so mad. And I also just felt kind of like, dude, I'm such an open person. Why didn't you ask me? This could have been a conversation. Like, maybe I would have been down if it were in a more controlled site in a more controlled way. Like, if you would just talk to me. It's like the power taken from me in that choice. Like, it's not necessarily that I was super freaked out about. Like, obviously I was freaked out because it was such a public forum. But I'm not necessarily against the idea of putting content like that up, but I am against it being that public, it being without my consent and not knowing that this had been happening our whole fucking time we were seeing each other. And I just kind of felt like, dude, I like the mistakes I make in life. I want to be my mistakes. Yeah, I don't want a man to make mistakes for me with my face. And I'm a very justice oriented person. Again, I'm studying Journalism. I want, like, I'm very like, serve the truth, serve justice. And like, it just made me feel powerless and it's just so violating. And so I report that stuff to the page. They do take it down. But I told them, I'm like, I would bet you none of these girls know they're online. Like, I really would bet money that none of them know. Because if him and I were really into each other and in a quote unquote relationship and I didn't know, and I'm the most open person ever, then these girls who he's having one night stands with don't know because a lot of the videos were people he was just casually seeing. And a lot of really young girls too. They look really young. And so I had my best friend go through the page for me because I was just so, like, my. I could not handle this honestly. Like, I was so mad. And this was really. Not that long after we broke up. Not that long after the car accident. I just was like, I officially cannot handle this anymore. So she went through, took a bunch of screenshots for me of everything as evidence. And I call the non emergency line to make a police report and they send the cops to my house. They came like twice. They literally just did a drive by. They never even stopped because they were like, we're gonna have a police officer come and interview you. And I was literally sitting in the bed of my truck for six hours waiting for them. I was in my driveway, like, I'm so mad. I need to speak to someone about this. Like, this is a crime.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so I was waiting. They never came. They claimed they did. And so I was like, no. And they finally did come. The cop pulls into my driveway and immediately starts to pull out. I think he just needed to look like he, like, showed up.

[B]

What?

[C]

And so I ran in the street and chased him down. And he stopped, backed up, and finally pulled in. And this officer walks up and before I even say anything, he's like, okay, so, yeah, I know this is about your ex or something. So, like, what do you want? Do you want me to. Yeah, he was like, do you want me to, like, call him or email him? Like, what do you even want me to do him?

[B]

Yeah, let's send him a email.

[C]

I know. I was like, no, I want you to take a statement. Like, what are we. What? I don't even know why you suggested that. And he was like, okay, well what happened? And they did not seem to really care. And so.

[A]

Oh, that makes me so upset because you're reporting an issue of extreme abuse and misogyny. And, like, I feel like you're met immediately with more misogyny.

[C]

Totally. Just like, yeah. What? You want me to call him? What? Hi.

[B]

Do you mean email on your behalf? Like, yeah, please, that'll do.

[A]

It's why people don't call for help.

[C]

I know. I'm like, what would you even say? Like, oh, this is officer so and so. So you need to take that porn down. Like, what? Like, I just.

[B]

Because that's not nice.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Can we talk about the intensity of having to share with a stranger, man. Officer, that your problem is that your nude images and vulnerable images are public. Like, you don't know what they're going to do with that information. They could be just as shitty as the person who put it up there. Like, there's so much care that needs to go into this topic.

[C]

Totally insane to me, the fact that all the evidence I have is literally just screenshots of me having sex. It's really a vulnerable thing. And so I. I gave a statement and I kind of messed up. In the statement, I said a little too much was the issue because they were asking, so where is he employed? And I was like, oh, well, he doesn't work. He's just a drug dealer. I shouldn't have mentioned that he's a drug dealer because that's not relevant to the case. And it does not look good on a. A police report. Because when I was looking into a restraining order, that would make it so he couldn't be near my work anymore, which would also make it so he can't be near anywhere he normally hangs out. And I would finally get to be in peace, and it would really affect his life. That's why what I wanted to do is I was like, I just need this dude to be affected by this because he has affected my life substantially. So I need to affect him in some type of way. And so they put it in the statement, like, Stella says that Damon is a known drug dealer. And so I was like, okay, well, if I serve these papers to him, he's also going to receive a copy of my police report. And if his friends see the copy, my. Because he used to always be like, yeah, with the quote unquote gang I'm in. Like, if I wanted someone up or killed or anything, I could make anything happen. Which, by the way, I do not actually think is true. But also, I didn't want any chance of his friend seeing that I was talking about something like that. So I can't really use the police report. I tried to call and see if I could fix the statement or remove it, because I was like, this is just for my safety. This has nothing to do with the case. Can we just delete this one sentence? And they kind of made it seem like I could. Other people said I couldn't. So, like, they've just been so hard to talk to and deal with with this. So I called a lawyer and. And a lawyer was like, well, we could totally do something about this. We could sue him. We just need to do an assets check. And I was like, you won't find assets. All his money is illegal. So there's really nothing on paper that we could sue him for. He technically, on paper has nothing. He doesn't have a car, he doesn't own a house. He doesn't have a job. So there's really not much to do. It would be really expensive for me to sue him and with not much reward. And the lawyer ended the conversation with like, okay, just so you know, like, happy to do this. This could be cool. But I haven't had any clients murdered yet. But you have a high risk of being murdered over this.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And he was like, women get murdered a lot by trying to sue ex partners over things like this. And I was like, cool, well, that sounds like a risk I don't want to take.

[A]

Also, I could misunderstand how it works, but your goal is to get. Your primary goal is to get the stuff taken down.

[C]

Yes. Which I have done.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But only on that site. So if he does have a porn Twitter or some. Or X or whatever, you know, that he runs, I don't technically know. There could be other sites that he has my content on that I have no idea about. So there's a version of a restraint. There's a, like, restraining order in the sense of he needs to stay away from me that I could get. Or there's a restraining order I could get. That's an intimate images restraining order where he has to basically delete and take down anything of me, and any violation of that will get him in trouble, which that is something I'm seeking. But also, like, I don't know, like, I. I had a prosecutor call me after I filed my police report, and she was explaining the process to me of what this would be like and what we could do. And I was like, so what's best case scenario? And she's like, the most he will get is a misdemeanor, like, total slap on the wrist. No jail time, no sex offender charge, nothing like that. And she was like, but that comes after a really brutal trial where they will tear you through the mud. They'll make you out to be the biggest slut in the world. They might bring your ex boyfriends on, they might bring all these people to question your character. And it's honestly going to be traumatic and stressful and all your dirty laundry is going to be out. And at most he'll get a misdemeanor.

[B]

I literally hate everyone.

[C]

Yeah, me too. And so I was just. So I just been. So that's actually part of why I messaged you guys, because I was like, I need some type of closure and something with this. Because legally there seems to be nothing I can do. And I'm sure plenty of women have gone through this. Oh, yeah. Where they just feel like, cool. And as much as I did get the stuff taken down from FetLife, but there's still a bunch of girls. If I just wish I could identify the other women because if we could do like a group case, it feels a little vulnerable to just be me.

[B]

Yeah, I can see that.

[C]

I had 100 these other women involved, which there's a lot on that page. And I, again, I promise, none of them know. Maybe some of them do, but I really doubt it. He seems to just. It seems like a power play to me. He just likes doing this. And.

[A]

Yeah, he doesn't want consent.

[C]

No. And so I told the process, she said, I still have, like, a statute of limitations time period, in case I change my mind. I probably won't because I just don't see a point. If he at most gets a misdemeanor, that's just not enough to me. And so, no, not at all.

[A]

When you were talking to your potential lawyers or police telling the story, having consented to be on film at all, having a history with OnlyFans, did anybody kind of use that against you or did that affect how people saw your case?

[C]

Kind of, yeah. They said that that would probably come up in trial and that that would maybe be something. I mean, the lawyer ultimately was like, it doesn't. No, it doesn't matter.

[B]

You.

[A]

Okay, good.

[C]

Consented to it in this context, but did not consent to it in another context, and therefore it was not consensual. So the lawyer was really supportive. It's just in a trial setting, that was going to be tough, for sure. And the prosecutor said a similar thing that, like, we totally recognize that you did not consent in this way, but obviously the defense is going to use that. And they're going to use it pretty hard. And there's just no avoiding that, unfortunately. So that's why I just don't want to do a trial. I don't want that brought up. I don't also want my nude body, like, brought with, you know, all this. My whole, like, yeah, I just don't want my whole situation that goes back to.

[B]

Yeah, what is the cost? It's like, oh, yeah.

[C]

Like, even I have a packet. I'm looking at it right now on my. Because I have it by. On my counter by my door for someday when I maybe pick it up and go to a courthouse, when I get the courage to do that. I've been. I've had it there the whole time I've lived here. And it's just a packet of evidence. And it feels so vulnerable to hand this over and be like, oh, yeah, here's all my nudes. Here's me banging. And that has to be seen by the judge and a jury. And all of that will have to be out there. And so that's a factor in it is like, how much do I really want my business out there like that? So they were supportive and assuring of the fact that either way, this was a crime. It doesn't matter that you consented in other contexts. This was not consensual in this context, but it definitely was going to be an issue in trial.

[A]

You don't have to be the spokesperson for this, but having gone through it, can you think of anything you would change about the process of reporting or the law around this?

[C]

I just feel like, I think people who do this do need to have sexual offender charges.

[B]

Like, yes, 100%, 100,000%.

[C]

A misdemeanor is bullshit. That is not enough. That is. So whatever. I think that this needs to be a real crime, a sex offender crime. I think that. That his whole page should have been taken down. The second they even found out even one person did not consent because all they did my stuff down. They didn't take fetlife.

[A]

This was fetlife you're talking about. How were they with you?

[C]

I mean, they told me, like, okay, can you. They can you identify? Because once he saw that he got flagged for reported, he turned his page to private. So I could no longer go on his page and collect evidence. Because I was also going to take screenshots of the audio recording and little things because especially that audio recording is extra felony in this state. And I was going to try and just in case I met the other girl, like, because I would see him out with girls and I saw one of them that I was like, oh, I saw you on his page. But I haven't seen her since. So I. I was like, if I see her again, I'm going straight to her. I don't care if he's with her. I'm going to be like, girl, you are online. You have to know this because she looks really young to me. Like she looks maybe 21. And so I wanted to maybe get some evidence to have kind of an. I have like a folder on my laptop of just evidence from his page. I wanted to maybe gather others in case he went and deleted a bunch. As much as it's like I don't want to have a bunch of screenshots of random naked girls on my, on my computer, but I'm kind of hoping that someday I'll be able to connect with some of these women. But he put his page on private, but FetLife was still able to access his page. So they sent me a screenshot of his page and said basically, can you like highlight which ones are you? They deleted them. And I straight up was like, I am positive none of these girls know, like this is a revenge porn page. This is not a consensual page. And they didn't really say anything about that. And I told them that some of the girls are really young on this and they didn't say anything about that. They did take my stuff down, but that's not enough. Like, I think his whole page should have been shut down at any sign of no consent.

[A]

Yes. There should be no tolerance.

[C]

Yeah. So I think it's also these sites responsibility to double verify. Like, that's why I do respect only fans for that because they are really strict about that. And they do want to ensure that you are 18. They want to ensure that you know that you're on there. And I think it's really problematic and creepy that they do not verify those things because again, what's stopping someone from posting a video of a teenager or a child? And so it just made me nervous about those sites when they claim that there's such a community consent. Like, we're just about safety. And I'm like, bullshit. You're not screening this.

[B]

You're not trying hard enough.

[C]

You're not ensuring that the person whose literal face is online is someone that is old enough and consenting to it.

[A]

That's terrible.

[C]

So I think not only the legal system needs to step up about it and the fact that the Prosecutor said that, oh, I haven't gotten a ton of cases like this. That was a red flag to me.

[B]

That's a problem for sure.

[C]

Because I'm like, it's not like there aren't a ton of cases like this. They're just. Maybe people just know that there's nothing you can really do about it.

[B]

And sex crimes are so under reported.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Because of the shame involved.

[C]

Yeah. And I think, you know, knowing that he has an X page of porn stuff too, the fact that stuff like that can be on such a public platform like X. So I think it's also these sites responsibility to be ensuring that there is not unconsensual or potentially child porn on their sites. And I was really hoping for better from them, especially FetLife being such a. Your site is entirely based in sexual stuff. So why do you not have these safeguards up? So I think it starts with the sites more than it goes even into law. Our legal system fails so many people in so many ways forever. There's a million reforms that need to come from it, especially with this. But I wasn't trusting that system really anyways. But I was kind of hoping I could trust these sites to screen stuff. So I'm still considering doing this intimate images thing just to get at least any potential other images that are out there taken down. Because I still have not even said anything to him. I've run into him quite a few times. I've not acknowledged him, We've not spoken. We just walk past each other and that's that. Because again, he. We operate in the same area, so I do see him all the time, but actually haven't seen him since I found out about the revenge porn. And I've just have been avoiding that area. I even have left that job because I'm concerned. Even though he's so much bigger than me, I just feel like if I see him, I'm gonna go attack him. Like, I just feel this rage in me that I'm like, I just want to go punch him in the face. Like, I'm so mad and I'm not actually gonna do that. But there's this part of me that's like, I just can't see him. I literally cannot look. I cannot lay eyes on him because I'm just so pissed. And so I just have kind of reached a point where I might. I might file this thing with the court about the images. But also there's part of me that wants to just let this go. My friends and I have talked about other Forms of revenge we could do. We've talked about, like, what if we made a flyer of him and said like, hey, if you've slept with this man, you might be online, put it up in places he goes. But we haven't done anything like that. I don't think we will. I think the best, honestly, and it's. It's hard for me to do, but I think the best thing to do with someone who's this full of himself and has this much of a need for control of my life is to just pretend he doesn't exist, because that's gonna bother him the most that I'm not engaging with him. But I think just right now, I'm. I'm just at a loss, honestly. I don't know what to do that isn't gonna put me in danger or pretty much have a no outcome and there's just no real options for this. And that's what makes me really upset because again, I know for sure there's thousands of women that have dealt with this or that may not even know their stuff is online and have yet to discover it, or people that have discovered it and have gone through the same process of me of realizing that there's pretty much nothing that can be done and people in the police aren't really listening. Even the prosecutor was like, I haven't had a ton of cases like yours. There's not a lot of people that come forward about stuff like this or even know that their porns online. And so it's just been this thing where I'm like, God, like.

[B]

Because if they tell somebody, then more people are gonna look at it.

[C]

Exactly. So I can't necessarily. Exactly. I have to be really careful. Even when my friends and I were talking about finding a way to let other girls know, we're like, well, we can't put a link up. We can't say where you can find this stuff because then people are gonna go find it. And we don't want that. We don't want to bring more traffic to his site.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's so hard.

[C]

Yeah. So we tried posting it on the. Are we dating the same guy? But unfortunately not a lot of young people use Facebook any. And I think he dates mostly younger girls. So we didn't really get much of a response from that. I've been trying to just figure it out, but a lot of friends have also told me, like, hey, you're not the first and you're not the last. You don't have to be the one to give him this lesson, like he's gonna have someone retaliate against him someday. Like, there's no way. Like, I'm just letting karma kind of handle it.

[A]

I always think your safety and well being is number one priority after this kind of thing in terms of obviously if we can stop these people, it's great. But at what cost? Like, you need to take care of yourself.

[B]

Yes. At what cost?

[A]

I'm worried about you. How do you, like, how do you. You feel safe, wise?

[C]

In this moment, I feel okay. I mean, there's also that spiritual manipulation where he puts so much in my head of like, curses and all this stuff that whenever bad things happen to me or I have like a bad luck moment, I'm like, did he curse me? Even though I'm not even sure if I believe in that. Like, I'm not even sure if I believe in demons and curses and. But I'm kind of a the type where I believe that we are just little humans in this weird world and I can't technically say yes or no to anything. I can't like, claim I know how the world works when I'm just a little guy on this planet. And so sometimes I get in my head, like, what if he did send a curse to me or this bad energy to me? And I've met with an energy worker who was like, I've found a couple of deities on you that I'm going to remove. And again, I'm not entirely 100% sure if I believe in stuff like that, but I have this also spiritual manipulation in my head of like, if I retaliate against him, is he going to retaliate against me in a spiritual way or in a really like. Or straight up. Luckily I moved. He doesn't know my current address. He doesn't know my current job. He actually knows nothing about me currently. So I feel safe in that way. But I just do feel like he would do some type of retaliation. And even when I have had moments of like, maybe I should just do nothing, I've wondered, is he somehow spiritually manipulating me to do nothing?

[A]

Oh, this is a lot.

[C]

Yeah. And I get in my head of like, why do I suddenly feel not that strongly about filing this paperwork?

[B]

Either way you go, you're gonna feel like he had something to do with it because he's manipulated you to the point where you think he has all this control.

[C]

Totally. And my friends were like, or it could just be that you're tired and burnt out and want to protect your peace and you just don't want to deal with this anymore.

[B]

And I'm like, that's true too.

[C]

Yeah. I'm like, that actually ultimately probably is what it is because I really. It's just so, like, if I file this paperwork and he gets served this stuff, it's just bringing him back into my life. Even if we're not interacting, it's still making him know that I'm making moves against him.

[B]

And that goes back to how much is your time worth? Like, how. What is that worth to you? And that's such a shitty position to be in because it's like, I want to see justice for myself and everyone else, but also at what cost?

[C]

The cost versus return. And I'm like, I already deal with everyday pain from an accident we were in together. And, you know, I will heal. It's not like I broke anything or I'm. I'm going to be messed up forever, but it just bothers me that I'm still dealing with the consequences of that man. And I've never, you know, every relationship I've been in, I feel like you can learn from. And I'm friends with multiple exes because I just felt like they were still okay people even if we didn't work out. I still respect and appreciate them and what they taught me. And I like to have a mature look on my past relationships. But with him, I've never felt so strongly that I really wish I never met this person. Like, I truly. Like, there was not. Yeah, like, so much happened that it just in such a short period of time, like in not even two months, a car accident, getting choked, all these fights and the revenge porn, it's just so much bad came from it that I'm like, why did I even let it get this far? But even then, like, even if I had left him the. The first time, my porn is still out there. And that was happening during the relationship, so that sucks the most, I think. Yeah. And so now I'm just focused on trying to find peace and stabilizing my life and only entering romantic things with people that I know are really healthy and just being really wary of signs. So I'm just really cautious right now. I'm really focused on peace. But wow, it's really messed up my brain. And I still get these waves of rage and feeling like, oh, I haven't even said anything to him because also there's part of me that's like, I'm kind of letting this person disrespect me and doing nothing about it. Like, I don't want him to feel like he can just get away with what he did.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But also, I don't want to take on the burden of being the teacher of that or the lesson, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Like, totally.

[A]

We had a. Maybe you've heard. I forget which guest, but somebody just talked about that. When you are a victim going through the process, the legal process, so much of it is just. Here's another thing for you to do. Here's another task that you. It's so much work to be a victim, whether you're pursuing justice or not. Just the healing part, let alone everything else. It's like you didn't ask for this. You did not ask for a job.

[C]

Yeah. And that's why I'm just like. I just. I kind of feel like I'm tired. And so there's part of me that has given up, but I also don't feel good about that either because how dare you do that to me? And then I say nothing when normally I'm a fighter for justice. So I don't see this as a closed case. I will solve it eventually. I will do something about this eventually. I just want to wait till I have the proper energy, the resources, the. The peace in my heart and brain to be able to take on something like this and hopefully find the other girls and see if we can do a group thing about this, because I think that'll be more powerful anyways. And I want to see justice for them, too. It made me sad seeing how many women are on his page, especially knowing there's just no way that. I mean, maybe one or two of them consented by. But this type of guy, I just.

[B]

Know that your gut is telling you they didn't consent, you know? Yeah.

[C]

I feel pretty confident that not many people know that they're on this page. So this will be addressed. And it's. Yeah, it's just. It's not closed in my book because I am not going to let someone disrespect me, disrespect all these other women, especially all these really young seeming girls. I will find my justice someday. And I feel like it'll come to me when it's right and when I'm in a place to really go somewhere legit with this and see justice be served or just see him get some type of consequence for this.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

We're so with you.

[B]

Holy banana bananas. Listen, this. I have so many questions.

[A]

Damon the demon.

[B]

Damon the demon. Listen, I don't like, believe it or whether you believe in the demonic situation or not, I ain't messing with it. I'm not, I'm sorry. I'm. I don't want nothing. I don't blame her for her decision. I, she's. I think she's smart. I don't blame her a bit.

[A]

Oh, well, I mean, I, I think, yeah, we can start there because it's.

[B]

So good, we don't know where to start.

[A]

I, yeah, I'm with you. I get the idea of being like. Even if I'm like you, do you. It's still unsettling. It's still kind of a veiled, thinly veiled threat of like.

[B]

It is a threat.

[A]

Absolutely is to me. It spoke to the fact that he was generally a vindictive person. And even if it's not like on the top of your mind when you're in the middle of a toxic relationship, an abusive relationship, we know that our brains get very traumatized and that causes us not to think as clearly. And that's not a weakness. It's just psychology. Like, your brain might not be calling it out as a red flag, but your, your body is hearing, oh, this person might do something to me if I leave them. Yeah, you know what I mean? I think that makes a lot of sense as to why you continue to try to make the relationship work. If you are subconsciously afraid they're gonna like summon a demon or get their gang on you, or you don't even know, look at the world, they could try to kill you.

[B]

And as soon as they plant the seed, now the seed is planted. And that's what you. Now you're like, I can't leave. I'm too scared to leave. That's, that's a manipulation. That's a religious or spiritual whatever, manipulation. I don't like it.

[A]

I don't like it at all. I think it's unfortunate. The traits of being like, open minded and open to things that you don't know or are different than you. And being used in a negative way just sucks because I feel like I'm that way. I feel like sometimes I, I seem gullible or I get insecure about being gullible, but it's really just that sometimes I'm very open minded to things I don't know. And I'm like, I'm never gonna shut somebody down or I don't know, like I'm, I'm live and let live. Like, if, if you like it, I love it, but.

[B]

Right, exactly. You're not gonna be like, no, that's not real. Right.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And I feel like she had that mentality, and it's sucks that he was using it to suck her energy out. He was truly a scary dude. And, yeah, she was dignitized. She said, I'm looking in order. The location sharing thing, that being too soon. We've had that conversation before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, some people do it right away and feel comfortable with it. Some people never do it.

[B]

Like, if you both agree to it, like, that's fine and everything, but if you're demanding it that soon, it feels like maybe not.

[A]

Well, I feel like the love bombing at the beginning was so much using excuses that made a lot of sense, like, yeah, wanting to be dominant in a chivalrous way, or, I'm a black.

[B]

Man, I want to be safe.

[A]

Right. Like, these. All these things could totally make sense. And then as soon as he had his claws in, that's when he tightened the grip. I hated, I'm in an abusive relationship, but I'm not ready to leave. Oh, she felt like it was.

[B]

I wrote that down too, because you're never gonna do anything that you're not ready to do. But I love that she still. She still told her friends. Like, she's still making them aware. Like, she's kind of planting the seed for them. Like, hey, I know this is. You know, that's a.

[A]

You're right. I think that's a great point, because I don't think people really do that. I think that's. I mean, if anything, smart to do. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is another. Obviously, we put that at the beginning of every episode, but it's. Seriously. Sometimes all you need is just to say, speak it out loud and have somebody hear you. And you might not right away, but it just changes the perspective in your own mind. I don't know. I mean, it's.

[B]

You're absolutely right.

[A]

As a friend, you don't know what to do. You can't do anything sometimes. And I think it makes sense that sometimes people respond with like, oh, well, if you're not going to do anything about it, like, it's too hard to watch you. But we. I. We have to stand. We have to make it clear that we're available to them when they're ready.

[B]

Yes. And that was another point. Whenever she said that, it's like, what do you do for a friend who is telling you, I know that I'm in this situation, I know that it's dangerous, but I'm not yet willing to do anything about it. Like, how can you best support them and We've had experts on the show that have said the best way to support them is just to let them know I'm here. Keep open a line of communication so they know, okay, if anything happens, if I know that I can talk to.

[A]

This person, even if it's texting them about something unrelated, sharing an article, a joke, I mean, something that makes them.

[B]

Feel safe, they know, okay, this person always talks to me, so I can always talk to them. You're just keep that communication open. And that's a great way to let them know, hey, I'm here, girl. Oh, my God, I love you.

[A]

And I always say if you feel like passive aggressively being like, there's this great podcast called the Dating Detectives. Well, you gotta check it out. And then hopefully we end up getting into their brains. Happy to help, ladies. And we'll underline that it doesn't have to be physical abuse. And I'm so glad that she was able to recognize that in herself, having gone through it before. I remember in the book with that Dr. Ramani Durasula wrote that we read from book club and she talked about it. A lot of times people are like, why don't I get into another abusive relationship? And it's largely because there's many different kinds, and when you go through one, you really build yourself a wall against that. And then somebody comes in with another type of abuse. And that's very scary.

[C]

But exactly.

[A]

It doesn't have to be physical.

[B]

Yeah, And I think that's a. That's a big problem too, is when someone says, I'm being abused, and you're like, but there's no bruises. That's what we're looking for. But it's not always bruises, you guys. Sometimes they are hidden. And that's.

[A]

You know, I think there's a parallel.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

With sexual assault and revenge porn and digital sexual assault. I'm gonna call. I don't know what the term is, because we don't. I mean, I think it does need to be classified as sexual assault. It is. It is. And I think it would be very. I wouldn't be surprised if many people have the perspective, well, at least you didn't get raped. Oh, they just put a picture of you online. It's whatever.

[B]

And it's like, at least you didn't get. Oh, my God, you're still violated, though.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Exactly. And we know from how many stories we've talked about that the impact of any kind of violation is, like, different for everybody and valid for everybody.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's so scary. I. I mean, I loved hearing her perspective on what needs to change specifically about websites like FetLife. Let's call them out. Double verification.

[B]

Yes. And now that we know that's a possibility on other sites, then maybe they should adopt that too. And I think a lot of women, from what I have heard, feel empowered when they explore their own sexuality or their own body on sites like OnlyFans or whatever. You know, sex workers. Whatever you want to do. Dipsy. Okay, thank you.

[A]

We love our dipsy.

[B]

And there are women who. And men too, who want to empower themselves by being, you know, more free with their body or whatever the case is. But that's a choice that they're making, not a choice that someone is making for them. And so when someone comes and posts them without their approval, that's a problem. Like, that's. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's horror. And I don't know how people don't see it that way, but. Yeah, it's not consensual, exactly. Period.

[A]

The fact. Yeah, the fact that anybody being not a perfect victim still taints a jury, still taints public opinion affecting someone's case. And she didn't even go to trial because of the fear of that. Like, she knew that this would just not be a good experience. And I get that we were talking about it when we weren't recording, but also the fact that in most states, the penalty is only a misdemeanor. It keeps prosecutors from wanting to take on the case because they're like, I'm going to do all this work for just meaning. So increasing the penalty would also increase the amount of cases we even try because it becomes a little bit more worth it. And.

[B]

And prosecutors are judged based on their numbers, like how many prosecutions they get, how many felonies, how many, whatever. And so that's why, like, it's a. It's a big political thing. W. Horrible.

[A]

Okay, so we need more penalties and we need to classify them as sex offenders and they need to be tried. We had. Yeah, we talked a little bit of. There's a new act, the Take It down act, that I think just May 2025, it became maybe. I wait, I don't know where it went. I had a.

[B]

Grateful for that, though.

[A]

It's a step. It's a step. But it also. There's some things that confuse me about a lot of the way the laws work. Not necessarily that one, but I was looking at how sometimes the statutes in certain cases have to do with. It has to be a former sexual or intimate partner. And if it's not, then it's different. Like, there's certain little. Every state is different. It's very hard to find out what your law is. And yeah, I, I, I don't know that I have a solution, but I do know it's not working.

[B]

I know that it's not this.

[A]

I know it's not this, and I.

[B]

Hate that the more we talk about it, the more people hear about it and the more they're like, oh, my God, this is happening more and more. What? I guess we need to do something about it. Some, Someone eventually is gonna step in, and I think it's going to be our next generation.

[A]

They better. Come on, let's all. And we can do it too. I mean, I loved oh, her friends doing a lot of the heavy lifting and the emotional work for her in this process. That also is, to me, like, so representative of how we need to go about this. The people leading the charge don't have to be people that it's happened to. Like, we can be the ones leading the charge because, in fact, we're actually more privileged and able to do it because we're not carrying as much. I mean, I'm saying a collective we. I don't know everybody's situation, but you know what I mean.

[B]

I'm glad you said that.

[A]

Yeah, let's. Let's look into our local organizations.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Working on this. If you are. How, if you want to get involved, we can do some research and help you in your local area or if you need help, find resources. Oh, I did get curious, as I do, about Mr. Demon's like, brain, which sometimes it's not valuable to worry so much about why someone is awful, but there's like, eroticized power, as a phrase I. That the Google machine told me where it's like your arousal is tied to humiliating people.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing.

[A]

Yeah, that's definitely a thing. And I don't know, Trip. Yeah. I don't know what his deal was. I'm not saying I know if he has a personality disorder. I was just trying to rationalize it.

[C]

Why?

[A]

Why, why? Why do you put innocent people's vulnerable sex on the Internet without telling them? It is a power thing. And I do think it's people not treating women specifically as human and not seeing us as human. And it's. I. A lot of people will say, what? Look how far we've come. You guys are good now. No, we're not. No, no, we're not.

[B]

Yeah, definitely not. And you just. They know that nobody's taking it seriously, so there's no consequences. So they're like, oh, I'm not worried about that. That's not a big thing. You know, people don't worry about that very much.

[A]

And if we're heartbroken for the.

[B]

Worried more about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we wonder why women are so insecure and why we have such doubt in ourselves and why we compare ourselves to others so much and why we focus so much on our own beauty. It's like. Like we really feel like we have to be perfect because we don't want to get taken advantage of or what. And it's just. And that's why. Another reason I think women are so like, oh, why do girls always hate each other? Because we. We don't support one another in situations like this and we don't. You know what I mean? Like, we don't come together. Like, we could.

[A]

I think, yeah, we've been conditioned to be like, there's only one spot for a perfect woman. Like, yeah, hypothetically. So if you can see. Oh, that girl posted on Only fans I can call her, but. And seem better. Yeah, it's like kind of a survival thing that's been conditioned. I think a lot of people and I think our listeners are among them that are trying to unlearn that. But it's like what we've been taught in order to survive is to fight with each other and never mess up. But you're never enough, even if you do everything perfectly. It's so fun how I love being a woman. That TikTok sounds.

[B]

There's a song by Alanis Morissette called Perfect. We'll love you just the way you are if you're perfect and I. It's so true. It's like, we'll love you just the way you are if you're perfect.

[A]

If you're perfect. I am so curious what people think about this whole story. Send all kind messages to Stella and we'll relay them. I'm curious if any of you are witchy. Do we have witchy listeners? Do we have demons listening?

[B]

I don't know much about it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Can I shout out? My friend has a small business called Lunar Leos with like oils for spells and stuff. And I don't know a ton about it, but I do know the oils smell amazing and are really, really good. So if you're witchy, go look at Lunar Leos. And also I'm like, I want to send one to Stella. I don't know if she wants it, but it's like, there's, like, pretty protection. And I'm like, oh, let's get the demons out.

[C]

Like, whatever we gotta do, just do.

[B]

It, whatever it is.

[A]

But I do want to hear people's thoughts on that or if they've ever dated anyone who had, like, an alternative religion and how that worked into their relationship.

[B]

I'd like to know that, too. It is really fascinating, and I think it was cool of Stella. She was like, I'm not really into that sort of thing, but it was like, it's whatever. Like, he was. So I. You know, it's fine as long as.

[A]

He'S not hurting anybody. And then it became abundantly clear he was hurting, and so I messed up. And we're gonna.

[B]

It's just an example of how you can. I really feel like he. That was a way that he manipulated was by using that, oh, I'm a demon. Like, I can hurt you. Whatever. I don't like it.

[A]

We are going to keep you updated as we get updates. That's another fun thing about Patreon. We try to give you updates as we learn them about previous episodes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Our latest Patreon episode has a. An update from a past guest. So that's a good.

[B]

Yeah, y' all need to. Y'. All. Yeah, go listen to the Patreon. Sign up for the patreon for sure.

[A]

$5 a month or $9 for the girlfriend experience.

[C]

We shouldn't say that too loud.

[A]

Oh, man. No ads on $9. And what's our email? If people have a story, email us.

[B]

At Investigate the Dating Detectives podcast dot com.

[A]

Send us anything, because sometimes, even if it's not a full episode, we'll talk about it on Patreon. Or we just want to hear from you. You deserve to be heard.

[B]

And the Patreon, they. Y' all send some crazy stories on Patreon.

[A]

Lord, they don't have to be romantic. If it's a dogfish, it's a dogfish. Then that's a dogfish. That's all we need.

[B]

A dogfish is a dogfish is a.

[A]

Dogfish is a dogfish. We had a demonic dogfish. I can't.

[B]

Crazy, right?

[A]

Dude, I. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I'm in. I loved her, but, like, that story was tough for me. I feel defeated, too, about the justice fight. But that's okay because we can take our rage and put it in positive places.

[B]

Yeah. Yes, girl. Yeah.

[A]

That's what we're gonna do. I love you, though. And I love that I don't have to be in my rage alone. Thank you.

[B]

You absolutely don't. And you guys are just amazing. So thank you, I guess, all for this episode, y'. All. And she. She said it really well, like, with her body. She was saying her body was responding, so that's why we always say, trust your femtuition.

[A]

Hear our little voices in your head. Trust your phone. Tuition.

[C]

Love you, Sam.