The Dog Show Dogfish: Part 2

Summary

The Dating Detectives – The Dog Show Dogfish: Part 2 (Nov 17, 2025)

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Episode Overview

In this gripping continuation, private investigator Mackenzie Fultz and comedian Hanna Anderson return with guest "Jessica," who recounts the harrowing aftermath of marrying a manipulative conman she met in the dog show circuit. The discussion dives deeply into emotional, financial, and digital abuse—including love bombing, property fraud, revenge porn, and the challenges of seeking justice. The hosts and Jessica dissect manipulative red flags, the impact on trust and community, and the hard-won journey toward self-healing.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. Recap and Trigger Warnings

• The episode resumes from last week’s cliffhanger: Jessica has just discovered her husband Dylan is embroiled in a $2 million lawsuit.
  • "[00:52] ...she just found out that this fella has a two million dollar lawsuit hanging over him..."
• Trigger warnings for animal-related sadness, revenge porn, and various forms of abuse.
  • [02:58] "Just reminder that we are going to talk about animal stuff... and then revenge porn and some definite abuse in that arena."

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2. Discovery of the Lawsuit & Dylan’s Evasive Behavior

• Jessica describes fear and paralysis upon learning about Dylan's legal complications and wondering if her assets and her late father’s estate are at risk.
  • "I'm in big trouble. And I'm wondering, am I going to lose everything that my dad worked for that he tried to leave for me?" ([04:25])
• Dylan minimizes and brushes off confrontation about the lawsuit, refusing to explain except in person.
  • “‘I'm your husband, I'm coming back home.’ ...He's real flipping about it. ...‘It's probably just some mistake.’ ...He just minimized everything.” ([05:00])

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3. Escalating Abuse: Animal Cruelty & Property Destruction ([10:00])

• Dylan reacts to Jessica’s questions with shocking acts: he dumps her deceased dog's ashes into the toilet and destroys new undergarments she bought.
  • "I look just to the left, and the toilet is open. And here are the majority of the remains of my dog he dumped into my toilet...every single one [bra], he had cut right up the middle." ([10:00-11:00])
  • Reaction from hosts: “That’s psychotic.” ([10:26])

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4. Manipulation, Isolation, and Gaslighting

• Jessica describes how Dylan’s emotional whiplash (apologies, then anger, then love-bombing, then stonewalling) conditions her responses—mirroring dog training techniques.
  • “When you do what the right thing, you get positive reinforcement ... This is more of an aversion. When you do the wrong thing, you get the shock collar.” ([12:38])
• She tries to create space; Dylan shows up with a 30-foot camper as an “apology.” ([14:51])
• During marriage counseling, he performs for the counselor and dodges accountability regarding the lawsuit and destructive behaviors.
  • "He completely bullshits her, too..." ([18:42])
  • Counselor downplays the ashes incident: “Oh, well, that was a really poor decision.” ([19:51])

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5. Steps Toward Empowerment and Escape

• Jessica starts gathering evidence, rallies her lawyer, and carefully plans his service with divorce papers—fearful of escalation.
  • "I would rather pay a process server to sit there and watch..." ([29:54])
• Dylan’s continued possession of assets purchased with Jessica’s inheritance becomes a key legal and emotional battleground.
  • "I transferred $40,000 to him but I can pull up my online banking... for the truck, but I still don't have a title..." ([28:10])

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6. Ongoing Stalking, Digital Abuse, and Revenge Porn ([54:22-58:45])

• After serving divorce papers, Jessica becomes the target of revenge porn: topless photos (she didn’t know existed) posted online with her contact info, leading to a flood of harassing messages.
  • "He put topless photos of me on Craigslist with my actual phone number, my actual email." ([54:22])
  • "I had no idea he took the pictures. I had no idea he had the pictures." ([57:00])
• Police response is limited; even after flagging and removing ads, authorities see little recourse.
  • "I think they were sympathetic, but I don't think that they thought it was super serious." ([58:02])
• He hacks her Facebook, stalks her connections, and continues to manipulate from afar.

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7. Financial Abuse & Legal Battles Post-Divorce

• Dylan continues to withhold the truck title, manipulates payments, and uses Jessica’s funds to finance multiple vehicles and a trailer.
  • “He had used that $40,000 to put a down payment on my truck... truck that he had purchased and ...on that 30 foot travel trailer...” ([63:57])
• Jessica endures repossession scares and pursues judgment in court, domestication of the judgment in another state, and careful research into his bankruptcy manipulations.

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8. Uncovering Dylan’s Wider Pattern of Fraud

• Jessica’s investigative work reveals Dylan’s ongoing bankruptcy fraud, property transfers to avoid creditors, and history of real estate fraud.
  • “I was able to pull up the records for the LLC... found that he had signed a quitclaim deed...to the LLC.” ([70:33])
  • “What I later found out was they were falsifying documents...using those falsified deeds to get loans to purchase other property.” ([71:09])
• Her tip-off to the bankruptcy trustee leads to seizure of Dylan’s property and partial financial restitution for herself. ([73:19])
  • “They sent me a check...around 16,000.” ([73:22])

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9. Pattern of Abuse with Other Women

• Dylan remarries repeatedly; Jessica connects with past and future wives, offering support and seeing similar patterns, including revenge porn and physical abuse.
  • “His first wife actually contacted me...she had to file bankruptcy....He got married a fourth time...” ([74:30-76:54])

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10. Rebuilding, Healing and Empowerment

• Jessica details moving to a new state (using a UPS mailbox for protection), reentering the dog show world despite shame, and embracing “blissful singledom.”
  • “Moving was a really big part of that...I moved 600 miles away from anybody I knew.” ([81:22])
  • “I am blissfully single.” ([81:10])
• Hosts and Jessica discuss supporting friends, overcoming shame, and the enduring value of community.
  • Jessica: “You need to give yourself the same grace that you would give your best friend.” ([83:01])
• She now trusts her instincts and immediately spots red flags: “I now trust my femtuition.” ([86:23])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On gaslighting and control:
  “That's what he was doing, was training me not to ever question him...when you do the wrong thing, you get the shock collar.” (Jessica, [12:38])
• Describing revenge porn:
  “He put topless photos of me on Craigslist with my actual phone number, my actual email.” (Jessica, [54:22])
• On the counselor's response:
  “Oh, well, that was a really poor decision. And you're probably gonna have to make it up to her.” (Jessica, quoting marriage counselor, [19:51])
• On escaping and moving forward:
  “After I got the check, I thought, okay, now I can let this go. And I took it outside and set it on fire.” (Jessica, [78:54])
• On self-compassion:
  “You need to give yourself the same grace that you would give your best friend.” (Jessica, [83:01])
• On belonging and shame:
  "I felt so stupid that here I had married this guy that I barely knew right after my dad died...so like, want to go to another dog show...I'm just like, everybody there is going to be pointing and whispering and talking about me..." ([60:21])
• Practical words about red flags:
  “If it doesn't make sense, it isn't so. Period.” (Host, [86:32])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:52] - Recap/Trigger warnings
• [04:25] - Jessica’s perspective on the lawsuit discovery
• [10:00] - Animal cruelty and property destruction
• [12:38] - Conditioning and emotional manipulation
• [14:51] - Camper trailer apology and marriage counseling facade
• [28:10] - Legal action and tracking Dylan for service
• [54:22] - Revenge porn and law enforcement's response
• [63:57] - Truck title, payments, and repossession saga
• [70:33] - Uncovering property fraud and bankruptcy schemes
• [74:30] - Support from and for other victims
• [81:10] - Healing, moving, and “blissful singledom”
• [83:01] - Self-compassion advice
• [86:32] - Final reflections and trusting intuition

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Tone and Community

• The tone through the episode is supportive, empathetic, and at times angry and incredulous at the abuser’s audacity.
• Hosts foster a sense of solidarity: “You are not alone. You are not stupid. ...See how easy it is for these people to just easily manipulate.” ([91:51])
• Resource reminders (stalking prevention, address confidentiality, “Delete Me” services, etc.) are provided for listeners in similar situations.

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Final Message

Jessica’s story is a raw, insight-filled account of surviving a calculated abuser. The episode underlines the importance of trusting one’s instincts, seeking community, and extending self-compassion. Both the hosts and Jessica urge listeners to reach out for support, and to support others in turn—as even the strongest, smartest people can be vulnerable during periods of grief.

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To connect or seek support, listeners are reminded to:

• Reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline if needed.
• Look up stalking prevention and address confidentiality programs.
• Utilize online privacy services if worried about doxxing or stalking.
• Email the show to share their own stories and find community.

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Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-6-7233 for support.

[B]

Good morning, Dating Detectives. It's Dating Detectives Monday.

[C]

We are back.

[B]

Happy holiday.

[A]

Happy holidays.

[B]

It's a weekly holiday here at the Dating Detectives.

[A]

Yeah. And we left you on a cliffhanger last week, so we really do have to get back into it because Jessica.

[B]

Our guest, she just found out that this fella has a two million dollar lawsuit hanging over him.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you hear how he responds right now, I mean, you guys like remove all valuables from around you because you will want to throw them at the wall.

[B]

You are going to want to mash everything.

[A]

Seriously, I was in shock. Okay. But is there anything else? I want to like, do a little recap just in case people need more of a refresh. That was the big last thing, but basically she met this guy via the dog show circuit. His name is Dylan and he love bombed pretty classic love bombing. Kind of made sure he targeted her in a period where she was really vulnerable. Her dad was dying and then died in the process of her being in courted. And it was really all left to her, like the estate management, everything. And then she talked about people. Maybe she says this in part two, but it's okay. It's not a crazy spoiler, but people were like showing up at her house saying her dad had owned them money and she didn't even know anything about it. And it was just like a weird, vulnerable, difficult time. So it makes sense that I think he saw that as an opportunity, unfortunately.

[B]

And yeah, he definitely was one of those who preyed on those unmet needs, which we've talked about a lot. But he was a classic example of that. And also before we get back to Jessica and hear more of her story, thank you for being patient with some of the audio issues that we had. She's in an area where the Internet isn't super great. And so I know we had a little bit of the audio concern. So thank you for sticking with us. I know Molly on the production side tries to do everything she can to make sure it's a, a great listening experience. For you. So thank you for working through some of those issues that we have sometimes with some of the electronical stuff. So we appreciate the patience on that.

[A]

Sometimes it feels like you're on the phone with somebody telling you their update and that we're. We're on the call with you. It's a conference call, guys. We're all gabbing together. Also just reminder that we going to talk about animal stuff. Not any animal abuse per se, but there just sad stuff still some like. Yeah, like animal and. Yeah. And then revenge porn and some definite abuse in that arena. So stick with us, y'. All. And if you don't want to stick us with us, I understand. And you're welcome to, like, DM us or email us if you want to hear what happens and are just like.

[B]

Yeah, we'll break it down for you.

[A]

Listen to the episode.

[B]

But Jessica, sometimes they can be really hard to hear.

[A]

Absolutely. And I understand that. And we love Jessica so much. So we're just so grateful that she took the time to share it because it's also hard to share, but you'll hear. It helps people proof of that.

[B]

Yes. And this. This community, the way you guys support one another as you tell your stories is just so incredible to us, and we really value and appreciate that. So thank you and thank you to Jessica for being so brave and sharing that. Let's go ahead and let her. Well, let's let her finish the story. You guys are gonna be on. You don't mash anything.

[C]

And I was freaking out because I'm like, $2 million, like, who's responsible for that? You know? Now I'm married to the guy. Does that mean my assets are in jeopardy if they. If he's found guilty or. So I just was like, oh, my God, what did I do? I'm in trouble. I'm in big trouble. And I'm wondering, am I going to lose everything that my dad worked for that he tried to leave for me? Like, I don't know what the laws are for marital, property, inheritance, or any of that. So I just kind of wanted keep a low profile that whole next week and just do as much research as I can find out everything possible that I can find out to protect myself. So after that next weekend, he wants to come back to my house, and I'm really not sure that I want him there, But I don't know how to tell him that. I'm afraid to tell him, I don't want you here. So I don't want this confrontation in person when he arrives, I'm like, okay, I'm going to confront him on the phone. So he does call and I tell him, hey, there was a process server at my house, they were trying to serve you with papers. And he's like, well, I'll explain it all when I get there. And I'm just like, you know, I'd rather you tell me now. This doesn't sit right with me. It's freaking me out. I'm afraid. And he's like, I'll tell you when I get there. It's not a big deal. I'm your husband, I'm coming back home. And I said, wait, wait a minute. I married you not knowing anything about this, so I need an explanation before you get here. And he's like, well, I don't know, it's probably just some mistake. He's real flipping about it. You know, I'm a board member on all these LLCs and I've got investments and I don't know always what's the day to day operations, but it's just probably misunderstanding or it's nothing, it's nothing. He just minimized everything. And so he gets to my house finally and I'm nervous, stressed out, just freaked out. And I had just picked up my dog's ashes, his remains, after he was cremated. So, yeah, I'm sad over that. Did a little shopping while I was in a bigger city, picking up the remains. Came home with some undergarments and things like that because shopping helps sometimes.

[B]

Yeah, it's called retail therapy. It's a therapy.

[C]

So he comes in and again, he's just like, it's not a big deal. And I, I said, you know, can we, can we go somewhere and eat? I'm just trying to think of any kind of reason to not have him in my house because everything I love, everything I cherish is in that house. I was afraid because my dogs were all there, my animals were there. I don't know what he's capable of. And I am scared. I'm scared to set him off. And he's so unpredictable that anything could set him off. So I said, let's just go grab some dinner or something and you can explain or help me understand what is going on with all of this. And he's like, I already grabbed something to eat. I don't want to go anywhere. I just really want to take a shower and just relax and, and like, I'm scared to say it, but I have, I feel like I have to say, look, I'm not comfortable with this. This is really not cool. Like, I'm. I'm really uncomfortable. I need some type of explanation. I need to know what's going on and why can't we just go get something to eat? I haven't eaten. You can just come with me and you can talk while I eat. And he's like, you know what? I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to go take a shower. I've driven too long. I'm not doing that. And he just walks into my house, and I'm like, oh, crap. You know, like, I knew something bad's going to happen. So I sit outside on the front porch for a little while, and I'm just like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? What am I going to do? And he's in there maybe 20 minutes, and I thought, okay, he's had enough time to take a shower. I should probably go in. And as I get up and start to go in the house, he's got his backpack, and he's coming back out of the house. And I'm like, okay, now what? You know, I'm like, all right, we're going to have the big fighting outside my house. The neighbors are going to hear, whatever. And he's just like, nah, I'm out. I'm just. I'm out. And so he gets in his truck and leaves. And I. I watch to make sure he's actually leaving, watch his truck go down the driveway and turn off the road. And I'm like, okay, he's gone. I can breathe again. And I go in my house, and you have to go through the bathroom to get into my bedroom. And I get into the bathroom, and I see the container that contained the remains of my dogs.

[A]

That.

[C]

That particular dog sitting on the vanity in the bathroom with the COVID off, and there's ashes all around it. And I look just to the left, and the toilet is open. And here are the majority of the remains of my dog he dumped into my toilet. Oh, my God.

[B]

Why he do that?

[A]

That's psychotic.

[C]

I can't believe that anyone would be so cruel as to do that with the remains of an animal that he knew I loved.

[A]

And he's a dog.

[C]

I just wanted. Yeah, yeah, he knew what this means.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

I scrape as much as I can back into the canister, and I go to walk into my bedroom to put it back on the dresser. And I realized that my closet door is open. And I look, and the bag of undergarments that I had bought was not on the same shelf that I had put it. So I put the remains down, and I grabbed the bag and I take it over to my bed and dump it out and had bought in, like, four really expensive, really nice bras, and every single one of them, he had cut right up the middle. So, like, there's no way to repair that. They're just. It's, you know, almost $250 worth of junk. Now.

[A]

Wait, you literally didn't even do anything. First of all, you just said, excuse me, sir. Why is there a lawsuit? Not like you broke up with him or anything. Like, you just asked questions. Both of these things are diabolical. He's not a human.

[C]

Like, God, this guy is just the most cruel person. I. I would never have thought do something like that to anyone, no matter what they did to me. Like, how.

[A]

How do you. How do you. Cruel and diabolical.

[B]

There's no justification for it.

[A]

And you didn't even do anything. That's the other part. Like, you just asked about the lawsuit.

[C]

Yeah, I think anybody would have said, hey, what's this lawsuit that you're named in? Are we to come up with $2 million?

[A]

You could have easily been like, hey, I want to help you. I'm your wife. Like, you didn't even get the chance to have a point of view. You just asked the question, and he threw a fit. Yep. Yep.

[C]

But that was. That was what he was doing, was training me not to ever question him. When you do what the right thing, you get positive reinforcement, treat for praise. This is more of an aversion. When you do the wrong thing, you get the shock collar. But he would crank that shot collar up to 20 for him. So probably an hour or so after he left, he probably got to a hotel, got settled in, and then he realized, oh, I have to start texting her again. He starts texting me, and then he's calling and he's texting and he's calling, and I don't have anything to say to him. Like, I'm so mad, but I know he's still in the area. Right? So I'm like, okay, I'm just turning off my phone. I can explain it as I was just too grief stricken. And then when I saw what he had done to the ashes, I just turned off my phone and went to bed. I was overwhelmed with the sense of guilt for not being there for my dog and then letting this kind of happen. Like, it was just awful. So I don't talk to him for a couple of days. He's Sending me messages, but I'm not responding. I'm just like, I got nothing. There's nothing that's going to come out of my mouth. That's nice. Polite, cordial, anything.

[A]

What are his messages saying? Like, I love you. Is he apologizing? Is he not acknowledging it?

[C]

Sort of all over the place, like, are you okay? What's going on? I miss you. Why won't you answer me?

[B]

Yeah, because you flushed my dog down the toilet. Oh, my God.

[C]

Yep. And then he gets mad. I can't believe you're not answering me. I'm your husband, for God's sake. And then it's, baby, please, we really need to talk. And I just was like, nope, nope. Like three days goes by and I'm starting to think, okay, maybe he left. Maybe he went back home.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I'm outside with the dogs and I hear something coming down the driveway. So I run out to the front. Here he is pulling a 30 foot camper trailer.

[A]

Excuse me.

[C]

And pulls into my rival. What's that?

[B]

What? I'm so confused.

[C]

And I'm like, what is going on? Since I bought this for you as an apology. I'm so sorry.

[B]

Please.

[C]

And I, I said, no, this isn't cool. Like, what you did was unforgivable, a hundred percent. He said, I don't, I don't know why I did that. I just have never loved anybody the way I love you. And I don't know why I react.

[A]

Go to therapy and get out of my life. Like, what is wrong with him?

[C]

I said, no, you're just going from, like, bad to worse. And I, I can't deal with this. It's just too much. Says, let, let's go to marriage counseling. We'll go to marriage counseling. I'm so sorry. I'll do anything. I don't want this marriage to end. I'll do anything. And I'm thinking, okay, great. This is going to be divorce number two. The whole dog world is going to know about this now. Like, I'm embarrassed. I'm just like, everything.

[B]

The feelings. Absolutely.

[C]

Because it was like a big Facebook thing, you know, and, oh, I'm sure.

[A]

He loved to seem like, everything's perfect online.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm like, you know what? I'll agree to go to marriage counseling. But you can't stay here. I need some space. So he's like, oh, that's okay. I'll find some place to park this. But I want you to come out and see it. Check it out. This is going to be so great. For going to dog events. Everybody will be able to fit in here and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, just come and look at it. Just come and look at it. See how nice Pass. You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'll just, you know, five minutes, give me the tour, whatever, and then you can go, right? And for me, it. That was not. I was not hauling my dogs like that. That was just not gonna work. But he kept saying how great it was and this and that, and I'm just like, yeah, okay. You know, it's really nice. Whatever. You probably should go find a place to park this before it gets too late. So this is like April, maybe March somewhere in there. Are going to marriage counseling. He's kind of staying in the area. So, like, we'll go to the gym together. Marriage counseling.

[A]

Marriage counseling. Is he good at it?

[C]

He's good at playing the part. Like, everything that, you know, telling me he was telling the counselor, you know, I don't know why I react the way I do. I probably need to learn some new skills. I just get so freaked out when she's upset with me or when she questions me. And so I kind of work up the courage in marriage counsel because I'm afraid to see anything outside of marriage counsel. So we'll connect for an hour to two hours a day, and then we have our counseling, like, once or twice a week. And I finally work up the courage to tell the counselor about this lawsuit. And I say, you know, I really need him to explain it to me, how he got wrapped up in this and exactly what it's about, what they're accusing him of, and how he's going to prove that he has no part of it.

[B]

Fair? Okay, fair. Totally fair.

[C]

Well, he completely bullshits her, too, with the. I'm just a managing member of several LLCs. I'm on the board. I really have no active daily interactions with what's going on with these companies. These are guys I went to college with, and they brought me in as an investor. So I'm making some money off of these, but I don't really things going and just stuff like that. And he buys it. And I haven't found out everything yet because not all of the documents are scanned into the system where I can pull them up and actually read what has been submitted to the court. So can't even prove that he's full of bull, you know.

[A]

Did the marriage counselor know about the ashes?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What did they say about that?

[C]

Oh, well, that was a really poor decision. And you're probably gonna have to make it up to her. Like, clearly it was not you don't say I'm just like that. That not everyone is attacked. As attached to their dogs as I am. But I think anybody would see just.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's. Dude, that's.

[C]

You don't have to have a dog to know that.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

So I finally say, you know, I found the circuit court website, and it says it's for $2 million and it's for real estate fraud. And he's like, I can't believe you would believe somebody who's trying to sue me over what I'm telling you. I'm your husband. Look at all the things I've done for you, how much I've taken care of you since your dad's been gone. I even bought you that trip. And I said, whoa, hold on. I paid for that truck. I wired you the money. I said, but I still don't have the title, and I still can't put my license plates on it. And he just loses it in front of the counselor. He's like, you know what? I'm not doing this. Fine, do whatever you want. He picks up his backpack and out he goes.

[B]

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[A]

Mackenzie. What robots are here? I know we can't stop it, and sometimes it feels scary, but sometimes it really helps. Very important things, like the fact that neither of us cook.

[B]

Oh, I don't. Don't ask me to cook. Oh, this is the SUV for the suv. I want one so bad.

[A]

You need to get one. The sous vide kitchen robot. And they sent me one so that we could make sure we don't advertise stuff that we don't love. So I started using it and I was like, wait, I. We're in the future. It's a smart countertop oven and flexible meal delivery service. And I think my favorite thing about it is, yes, it has tons of settings, over 15 cook modes, air fryer, slow cooker, whatever you need. But it has a refrigeration step so you can put your ingredients in. There's. There's two levels. You could say, I want this one to cook at this temperature for this amount of time and this one to do something completely different. And I want it done at 7pm when I'm dinner.

[B]

I need.

[C]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

That's what I need.

[A]

Prep it whenever you have time. And then it's like, we got it, girl. And it just doesn't do it until it's time. Also, they have the delivery service, so if you want, they have really good meals. So, so good. And they come with a little card so that you scan it on suv and Suvi says, I know exactly what you're making. I know exactly how to make it. Honey, go back to your business. I know you're busy. I will handle this. And it makes it for you. And I have.

[B]

It's almost too easy for me to keep making excuses.

[A]

Sorry. Not sorry. But it's really yummy. You'll be happy because they have a really wide array of food. I've made like a shrimp rice veggie thing. And it was the perfect amount of ingredients and stuff I would never have bought myself. And it tasted so good. And then I've Talked about it before because I'm still obsessed with them. I got the chocolate lava cakes. Like.

[B]

Wait, chocolate lava. Okay, sign me up. Where's mine? That's my favorite meal.

[A]

Okay, well, Mackenzie, you have to try it. You will love them. You won't need this, but they do offer a 100 day risk free trial, so you have nothing to lose. I'm getting into my ad voice, so check out Suvi's Black Friday sale. But seriously, do it for extra savings while it lasts. Go to suv.comdatingdetives to get $150 off plus 16 free meals when you order during their sale. That's s u v I e dot com dating detectives to get $150 off plus 16 females. Save time, eat better. With Suvie, my new robot best friend.

[C]

First thing I do is reach for my keys to make sure I have the keys to my truck. So the counselor and I were sitting there looking at each other, and the counselor just sort of nonchalantly, she's like, so is this pretty typical of his behavior? And I said, yeah, it's real erratic. I never know what's going to set him off and what exactly he's going to do. I said, look at the things that he's done already. And she says, all right, bring. Tell me everything. Bring me up to 100% speed so I know everything. So I sat there with her for like another half an hour or so, and I can feel that my phone is vibrating. And of course it's him texting. And I finished telling her everything that I hadn't told her. And she just sort of shaking her head. And I said, you know, I really don't think I need marriage counseling anymore. I would like to continue seeing you for some grief counseling. This marriage is over. I said, I. I think I'm just going to call my attorney and see if they have a divorce lawyer in their firm. And he said, yeah. She says, I. I don't blame you. So I sit on the porch of. She does her counseling services from our home. So I sit on the porch and I read through his messages. And it's just the same thing. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Give me another chance.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

So I called my lawyer. I said, look, can you give me a referral to a divorce lawyer? My marriage is over and I want out as soon as possible. And she said, yeah, my associate handles divorce. Call the office back. They can put you right through to him. So I did. And I said to him, I said, I need this done, like, as soon as possible. I know that he's staying somewhere in the area, but I think he's going to run as soon as he realizes that I'm serious, and I'm going to file for divorce. So he said, well, how long does it take you to get here? You guys really don't have anything together. There's no marital assets, so we can get this started.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I said, there's one little problem that I transferred $40,000 to him, but I can pull up my online banking and show you. And I can show you the text messages where he sent me his routing numbers and all that to give us a jumping off point. So he said, well, what was the $40,000 for? And I told him it was for the truck, but I still don't have a title, and I still can't put plates on it. There's just temporary tags on it. He said, okay, well, get me the VIN number. Bring that up when you come into the office, but come right on over. So by the time I got there, he had just a basic. I don't know what you can call it, but, you know, the forms filled out. So as I'm sitting there waiting for him to finish everything, I'm thinking, okay, how am I going to get him served? I had a pretty good idea of where he was. There's a little RV park just outside of the town. Fairly certain that I had seen the travel trailer there, but I could verify it on my way home. So I asked him. He said, well, you can have the sheriff serve him or you can hire an independent process server. So I was like, if he sees a cop car coming, I don't think that's going to be good. So let me see if I can get a process server to do it today. So I went by where I thought he was parked and verified that that was, in fact the trailer and his truck. And so I pulled out and I stopped at a gas station, and I'm trying to call process servers, and I realized that he's leaving.

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

But he doesn't have the travel trailer hooked up. It's just his truck. I'm like, okay, he's coming back. Yeah. So I'm thinking, okay, well, he's probably coming back tonight. Maybe I can get somebody to serve him a little later. I would rather pay a process server to sit there and watch the travel trailer so I can go home and be far away from this. Let me see what I can do. Well, yeah, luckily I was able to get a process server. He said he would meet Me at that gas station. I would get in the vehicle with him and we'd drive past the travel trailer to make sure I could ID it for him 100% and then give him the papers. And he would serve him. That night, he said, I'll sit here if I have to sit here till midnight, like, awesome. So I think, okay, let me see if I can get you some details about what time he might be home. So I sent him a text message, and I said, where are you? And it took him a while to respond, but it was probably half an hour, 35 minutes later, he said, I'm at dog training with this one woman from the Cattle Club where I was a member. And I'm like, what? How do you even know Carla? He says, well, I added a bunch of your Facebook friends.

[A]

Weird.

[C]

Yeah. I'm just like, what?

[B]

What?

[C]

So she teaches a particular sport, and that was something that I had titled dogs in. And he wanted to get his dogs involved in. So he decided to contact her because he saw that she was holding training, and since he was in the area, he was gonna go train with her. So I'm just like, okay. And I said, when will you be back to the trailer? I might wanna discuss something with you.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

Yeah. And he's like, well, I think we'll be done in like a half an hour. Probably takes me another half an hour to get back. And I'm like, okay, I'll let you know. So I let the process server know he should be back, but in about an hour. I said, but do be careful because his dogs are a little unpredictable as well.

[A]

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

[C]

Yeah. So everything just super fell into place, and I couldn't believe it. And about an hour and a half later, I get a call from the process server, and he says, I was able to serve him, but I thought I was going to have to mace his. The one dog. He didn't want to open up his car door. I was there when he arrived back. He didn't want to get out of the truck. He didn't want to roll this window down. But he started to roll down the back window, and this dog was going nuts.

[B]

What?

[C]

Yeah. And he said, I just shoved the papers in the window and told him, you've been served. And I just left. So, like, okay, all right. So I'm terrified that night yet, because he's still in my area, and I'm thinking, what if he comes to my house? I have no idea what this guy's capable of. If I call the cops. I'm going to say my husband is trying to get into my house, and they're going to go, well, let him.

[B]

He's your husband. He's your husband.

[C]

Aw. So I am just. I'm scared. I don't sleep hardly at all. A few hours later, it was probably close to midnight. I had tried to settle in and go to bed, but I'm just laying in my bed snuggled with one of my dogs, wide awake. I all of a sudden get a text from him, and he says, I'm going back home. And that's it. Nothing. Nothing about paper?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. So I'm like, okay. Still, you know, on my guard, not really wanting to leave the house, because I figure if I'm there, I can at least protect my dogs. I don't know what this guy would do to hurt me. I don't want to leave my dogs that are home alone. So I go to see my therapist that week, and it's that same couples therapist that we were seeing together. And when I tell her about this, she tells me that, you know, he's just made some mistakes, and if you want to rebuild it, it's possible. And, you know, I started asking, like, how do you. How do you know this?

[A]

What.

[C]

What makes you think this? And she lets it slip that she is continuing to counsel him even though he's nowhere near. Like, she does it over the phone.

[A]

What?

[C]

And.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

I was like, no, no. That's such a betrayal to me. I'm like, okay, I'm done with this, counselor.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I'm just. I'm done.

[A]

So you had gone together, and then he stopped going. Right. That just. I'm refreshing. Yeah.

[C]

When I said, I don't need marriage counseling anymore, I am getting a divorce, but I need. I felt like I needed some grief counseling.

[A]

Well, I don't know if this is true, but in my experience with couples therapy, once you've gone as a pair, at least in my experience, they were like, we can't see you separately. Like, that's not how. I mean, maybe if you guys are continuing, and that's part of it, but if you're like, we're done, but I'd like to see you separately. I don't know. I don't know what's like, I don't know. But this definitely doesn't feel like it's.

[B]

Weird in the very least.

[C]

Yeah. For me, it felt like a betrayal. But he's still doing the full court press. And then it became. I know your dad would have loved me I'm successful. He would want you to be with someone like me. Just all of that kind of thing.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And, I mean, I don't even know which way is up at this point. You know? Like, I don't know who I can trust, who I can talk to, who I can't.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Because I'm having conflict with my dad's estate, and then I've got the divorce and the counselor, and I'm just feeling really, really vulnerable. And, like, I just need somebody to be there for me. Like, maybe this guy is.

[B]

What?

[C]

I don't know. And of course he says there's a dog event. Let's try this one more time. You know, I promise I'm getting my name off at that lawsuit. It doesn't include me. I think I had finally, at that point, been able to read that there were several people named in it, including him.

[B]

Huh.

[C]

He was, like, the third defendant listed. Okay. So it just. It seemed like he was really involved in it, but he still claimed that he didn't have anything to do with it. They were associates that he went to college with. It was all a big misunderstanding. You know, he could. He could explain everything away. Plus, I'm still kind of afraid of him and afraid of pushing his buttons to get him angry.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Because I don't know where he is. I don't know if he still got that travel trailer. He could come right back. I don't know. So I'm just feeling like, really, I don't even know which way is up. I don't know what's the right thing to do. I'm super confused, super overwhelmed. I didn't sleep at night. I barely worked my dogs, you know? But he wants to go to this dog event, and he said it'll be great practice before the big event in June. Let's just go and have a good time. And I promise everything will be taken care of. You don't have anything to worry about. I'm going to make it right. And remember, I still don't have the title for the truck, so I'm not 100% wanting to cut off everything with them, because I figure it would just be easiest if he just got me the title and gave it to me instead of having to fight over something crazy. So, Court.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Totally. So you're like, let's just play nice. Yeah. For now.

[C]

Yep. So we decided to go to this event. My dogs. I just had this really, really, super tight relationship with my dogs, and it was like it didn't matter if I was stressed or what I was going through. They were always there for me, and they always did their very best for me. He wanted someone to stand next to him in the dog show world, in the performance venues, and he had already trained me to keep my mouth shut and to just sit on the sidelines. But I had really good dogs, and I had built such wonderful relationships with them, and my dogs scored not a ton better, but a little better than his two dogs did for him. So of course I'm in the placement ribbons. You know, they post the scores. You can see whose dog did better, and he gets really mad at me and that I've embarrassed him and that he can't believe that I would do that.

[A]

And what did he want you to throw the competition?

[C]

And he's like, I'm the man. I'm the husband. Of course he wants to take pictures with the ribbons and the dogs and the whole bit. And it's this image of, oh, look at us. You know, our dogs are so great, and we're, you know, well, he's going.

[A]

To carry his own weight, then. Yeah, you can win too, buddy.

[C]

Yeah. And then we go back to my house, and I was telling him, like, that was. That was really uncalled for. It was really weird. And then, of course, it's. I'm so sorry. I don't know why I reacted that way. It's just, you know, like I said, he. He's an exceptional manipulator who can. He just thinks he can apologize or explain away everything.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And then he promises he won't do that. He just had a lapse in judgment or whatever.

[A]

Guys, I have a problem. We are working with Revolve, which is one of my favorite places to shop, and they said that they would share our, like, favorites with you and you could shop our favorites. And I went to my favorites, and I had, like, nearly 400 pieces saved. And I was like, okay, first of all, you need to evaluate your shopping system, because clearly this. You're using this for therapy. But also, I just realized that was too much to give you, and I have to. The problem is there's too many good things that revolve, and I love it so much. They have so many options for anything you want. I feel like they make it so easy to find new trending stuff, but that fits your style and what you're comfortable with, because not only are there a lot of options, but they organize it in a way where you can shop like you're shopping with a cool big sister. Recently, I got a very specific dress for a bridesmaid wedding I have to be in that I'm excited about but it was like a very specific color and I wasn't sure if I would find good options and they had so many and it just came and it fits great and I'm very excited and I've gotten some jewelry, shoes, shoes, bags. There's always new stuff that comes every single day. They drop new items. There's 1200 plus brands and a hundred thousand styles across fashion, beauty and home. I got a new flat iron from there recently too because my old flat iron broke and I was like oh my gosh, I wonder if they have beauty too. And they do authentic high quality products, inclusive sizing options from XXS to Forex and personalize product recommendations based on your favorites and purchase history. All I can do is warn you that you might end up favoriting nearly a million things. I also find that their customer service is fantastic. Fast and free shipping and returns like Once Revolve is in your life, your entire shopping process becomes easier. So whether it's a weekend away, a big night out, or just a little style refresh, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to revolve.com datingdetectives shop our edit at your own risk and take 15 off your first order with code dating detectives. Fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's Revolve.com dating detectives to shop our favorites and get 15 off your first order with code dating detectives. The offer ends December 1st. So happy shopping. I know a lot of you are very busy, hard working women, but if you love makeup but you're working your butt off all the time and maybe you're like me, you're a no makeup makeup person. Jones Road is a really cool line that you should look into and they have a lot of different stuff. I've recently been using their miracle balm like crazy. It's in the color tawny because it makes me feel like I just went on a run, but I didn't. You know that natural flush you get when you're just like I just, you know, just worked up a sweat. It's just natural. It's like ha. Just kidding. It's just a cream product that doesn't irritate my skin and is really easy to put on but makes me look a little rosy. This was started by the iconic makeup artist Bobbi Brown, the queen of no makeup makeup. And starting November 6, Jones Road is launching their most Giftable and exclusive holiday collection. Yet they have all five limited edition kits in their collection that are trios and they include new holiday shades products and packaging. It's effortless. Like if you just need something easy that's party ready. Your essentials you can wear for any occasion and they make a really good gift. So if you're a beauty lover or if someone in your life is a beauty lover, this is a great gift for them. And then the best part of Jones Road Beauty is that all of their products are actually good for your skin. Their bestseller is Miracle Balm. Like I said, and it's a true multitasker. It can be a tint, a blush, a bronzer, a highlight, or on your lips. This holiday season, simplify your routine with makeup that is clean, strategic and multifunctional. From November 18 to December 1, Jones Road is doing their first ever Black Friday sale. So go to Jones roadbeauty.com to get up to 20% off site wide. That's jonesroadbeauty.com for up to 20% off your entire order. You can. After your purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[C]

Like a day goes by or whatever. And I say, you know, hey, where's my title? You know, when am I going to be able to put my license plates back on this vehicle? I'd really like to have my regular plates, my personalized plates. Why don't I have a title? What is going on? And I'm like, I need proof of insurance, too. Like, I don't have any of the things that if I got pulled over, I would have to provide. And it's freaking me out. I don't like driving this thing if, if I get pulled over. He's like, well, why would you get over? If you're in an accident or something, just call your husband. I'm like, that. Not really.

[A]

You have to have your.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. He says, well, you have insurance. It's through me. And I'm just like, but, you know, he's in my house and I can't push it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because what's he gonna do next? So there's another event close to where I live. It was about an hour, hour and a half from where I lived. And so we decide we're gonna go, we're only gonna take one car. Cause I'm taking two dogs. He's taking two dogs. Well, that makes me uneasy as it is. But I'm like, whatever. I'm not trying to start Big fights. Everything was just walking on eggshells. Always trying to smooth everything over so that there wasn't a big blowout. Cause I never knew when he was leaving or coming back or, you know, anything. So I was just, like, always holding my breath, hoping that maybe he'll leave tomorrow, maybe he'll leave the next day. It was probably the most stressful thing I've ever endured in my life. But I really loved running my dogs and going to these events. And I thought, all right, you know what? I might not go in June, so let's go to this one. And so we get there, and again, my dogs perform better for me than his dogs did for him. He is not even in the ribbons. You know, I get placements with.

[A]

When you, like, were standing there seeing your dogs outperform him and you realized you had won again, what went through your mind?

[C]

When I walked up and looked at the scores on the score sheet, I thought, oh, no, no, that's so, like, I felt.

[A]

That breaks my heart.

[C]

I was really proud of my dogs. But then it was just like, your heart sinks. It's like, oh, this is gonna be bad. So I just kind of walked away. After I looked and realized how well we had done, and I walked back over. I had my dogs crated inside the building, and his dogs were still crated in his. In the vehicle. So I've got my dogs, my crates, my purse, and my stuff is in the building. He has the truck with his dogs outside. And I saw him walk in, and I thought, I'm just going to go to the bathroom and kind of disappear for a minute. And by the time I came back out, he wasn't there. I went outside, and I'm like, okay, where'd he go? And he left.

[A]

What? Yep.

[C]

He left me at an event, like, an hour and a half away from where I live.

[B]

Because he was having a tantrum.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

And he wanted to show you I am in charge. Like, you want to write.

[B]

He wanted to, not. He wanted to take away your joy.

[C]

Well, this was the first time we were out at an event where he allowed anybody else to see his bad behavior.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

So everybody's like, well, where. Where did your husband go? Where did he. And I was like, I don't really know. I'm about to text him. But I didn't text him. I called my dog sitter, and I said, hey, what? You have dogs out right now? What are you doing? She's like, oh, no. I just brought him back in. I'm just kind of hanging out Scrolling on Facebook. And I said, if I send you an address, do you think you could come and pick me up? So I had to wait an hour and a half for her to come and pick me up, and we had to cram two dogs and two crates, and she came and picked me up.

[A]

And where were. Were you gonna go home with him?

[C]

Yeah. I didn't know if he was gonna be there, and I don't know where he went. And I'm just like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Probably the next day, he contacted me and said he was just like, hey, what's up? And I. I'm like, are you kidding me?

[B]

Like, hey, what? Like, what?

[A]

Just.

[C]

We're all like, hey, what's up?

[B]

What? What? What do you got memory problems? What do you mean, what's up?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And I have no idea where he stayed that night or anything. I mean, he probably got a hotel somewhere, but I have no idea.

[A]

I feel like also when they. When they act like nothing happened, it, like, sets it up so that you seem like the crazy one or easier for them, because if you react, they're like, I'm not reacting. What's the problem?

[C]

Exactly. Exactly. And it makes you feel like I have no right to be mad because he acts like it didn't happen. So did it really happen?

[B]

No. Crazy.

[A]

Ugh.

[C]

Yeah. Luckily, my girlfriend and I were able to sit down and talk about it, and she's like, you know, this. This is not right. She said, I'm totally with you now. She said, I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, but this is insane. It just leaves you there. And the next thing I know, I get. I get a notification from PayPal.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no, no.

[C]

I don't know that a deposit has been made. And I have $2,000 in my PayPal account. And I wasn't that familiar with it. Like, I don't know how. Like, how can I unaccept it? Can I send it back? Like, what do I do? And so I messaged him. I'm like, did you send me that money through PayPal? And he said, yeah, so that we can go to the big show. Because it's like, in two or three weeks. Like, if I'm going to enter, I have to enter. Like, you have got to be kidding me. There is.

[B]

That's insane.

[C]

The. No way. No way. At this point, I decide, screw the car title. I need out of this now, and I will deal with the car later. So I contact my lawyer again, sign the papers. I call the same Process server. And he's like, well, if I can find him, I will. I said, well, I had an idea that I thought he was staying at this one particular hotel in a town over. And I said, if you can find him, serve him. If not, I'll figure something out. But if I just have to put an ad in the newspaper, I don't care. I'm going through with it. This time. He was staying at the hotel, so I got him served, and I was just like, I'm done. I'm done. And I told him through text message, I said, I don't care about this money. I'll send it back to you. I'm not going. I'm done with this. And I don't hear from him for quite a while. It wasn't the every day or every other day. It probably was about a week this time, because now this is the second time that I've served him with divorce papers. Then I get a text from some random phone number I don't know. And it was basically just, you'll regret this.

[A]

What? Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah. And I would get weird phone calls, like, in the middle of the night, all times of the day and night from numbers I didn't recognize. And I. I wouldn't answer them. And sometimes there'd be a text message, something along the lines of, you'll regret this, or you made a huge mistake. And probably a week or two goes by, and all of a sudden, my phone is blowing up, blowing up. Phone calls, text messages, emails. Like, what is going on?

[A]

And there are unknown numbers and unknown emails. Just, like this random stuff.

[C]

No, it was people who wanted to meet up with me. And I'm like, I don't know any of these people. What in the world is that?

[B]

Oh, my God. He put you online somewhere. Oh, my God.

[C]

He put topless photos of me on Craigslist. Topless photos on Craigslist with my actual phone number, my actual email.

[B]

Oh, my God, I am so sorry. Oh, how terrible.

[A]

I am in complete shock. Yeah. Jessica.

[C]

Huh? And of course, it died. Not I hadn't posted it. If I had posted it, I could have had it taken down. But I kept flagging it, flagging the ad, and I called the police, the sheriff's department of the area that I lived in. A sheriff arrived at my house 15 or 20 minutes later. I showed him, you know, there were. There were a hundred messages, 100 text messages, 100 emails, you name it. And I showed him what I had found. And he took a report and everything. Meanwhile, I keep Flagging this thing, My dog sitter, she would go on Craigslist and flag it as prohibited, and it finally came down. But I. I lived so rurally there as well that the police department there really didn't know how to handle it or what to do. I think it was sent over to a detective, and they had me come in and give another statement. And I find out that, you know, it's. It's considered revenge porn.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

But because everything online, there really is no way to prove that it's. Oh, my God.

[B]

Imagine being able to do whatever the frick frack you want because you can be anonymous and that makes you a.

[A]

Yeah. Yep, there's a lot of those. Wait, so how did you find out that this is what happened? You get all these messages asking to meet you, and do you talk to any of them to find this out?

[C]

No. Initially, somebody had mesh messaged off of Craigslist and it shows you at the bottom of the email, the Craigslist post.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And so that owned it.

[A]

Oh, what? I'm so. I can't even imagine clicking that link.

[B]

And seeing on Craigslist, like, for freaking anybody. Children can get on Craigslist. Oh, my God. Weirdos.

[C]

I had no. God, no idea he took the pictures. I had no idea he had the pictures.

[B]

You didn't even know he took or had them?

[C]

No, no. Oh, my.

[A]

So what does it feel like to click that link and realize this is what's happened?

[C]

I. I immediately knew who. Like, when I saw the picture, I immediately knew it was him, but I was just like, oh, my God, my life here is ruined. Absolutely ruined. I'm a business owner now. I have to call the police department, and anyone who is looking at the case has now seen me top. Oh, my God.

[A]

That's the thing with this type of crime is it's like you re. Have to re. Traumatize yourself over and over with it. Yep.

[C]

Yep. If you want to report it, you have to show all the authority, so.

[A]

And obviously they didn't know what to do. But were they delicate? Were they supportive? Like, did you feel at least like they were trying?

[C]

Yeah, I think they were sympathetic, but I don't think that they thought it was super serious. You know, we'll take a report and we'll give it to one of our detectives and see what we can do.

[A]

That's devastating.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah. And by that time, I knew that he already had figured out how to get into my Facebook account, had kind of stalked my Facebook friends and connected with them. No, I mean, I instantly knew that it was him. You couldn't have convinced me it was anyone else in the world.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

They just pretty much told me that there's no way that they can track where the ad originated from, placed it, where they would be or anything like that.

[B]

If this was a homicide investigation, they would know who placed it, what color underwear they were wearing. They have the resources. They just don't, quote, unquote, waste them.

[A]

Or is it. Is it like a Craigslist thing where Craigslist says to the authorities, like, we can't release that information unless there's. There's litigation, there's reason there's a homicide or something? Yeah. Like, I don't.

[B]

It can get subpoenaed. They just won't open a case for it. Oh, my God.

[C]

So once the ads got taken down, the messages stopped, and I just kind of shut off my phone. And he was like, well, I didn't. I didn't do that. Like, I just said to him, don't ever contact me again, lose my number. You don't even have to show up for the divorce. I just want this done and over with. And I tell him, I will never, ever be in your presence ever again. And so I make the decision that I'm not going to go to events for a while. I'm going to stay at home. I just need. I need some time alone. I need to breathe and just stay at home. And I just. I feel betrayed from every angle. And I have absolutely no one in the world, and I can't trust anyone. And I. You know, what a lonely day. I'm married to this man. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It was awful. Absolutely awful. I'm. I'm super embarrassed. Like, you know, things. Things had progressed to the point where now he was behaving badly at events, and people were talking about it, and it happened close enough to where I live that people from my dog club knew about it. But things spread on the Internet so quickly, and so I felt like the whole dog world knew what had happened, and I was just embarrassed over the entire thing. I felt so stupid that here I had married this guy that I barely knew right after my dad died, and. What a dummy. And. Yeah. So, like. And want to go to another dog show. Like, I'm just like, everybody there is going to be pointing and whispering and talking about me, and I'm just. No, no, no. So every once in a while, I'll get some weird, random text or the phone will ring from an unknown number, and I'm just, I'm avoiding all of it. I'm just like, nuh. I just want to be at home. I was like, I'm just gonna go through my dad's stuff. I'm gonna clean my house. I'm gonna just stay at home. And I. I would maybe go to town once a week and get supplies and groceries, but I. I just didn't leave the house. Tried to stay off social media. Just kind of tried to build a wall around my life. But then the day for court comes and he wants to come and pick me up, what, go on a date, divorce, and go to court together. And I'm like, that's not going to happen. There's absolutely no way. I was thinking that if I let him pick me up, he's probably got a spare key to my truck and I'll probably never see that truck again.

[A]

No.

[C]

Now I still don't have plates on my truck. It's temporary plates. They're expired, the whole bit. So we go to court. I parked way away. Like, I had to walk so far just so that my truck would kind of be hidden. So we go in and I had originally asked for an annulment because I felt like I don't. I don't know who I marry. We haven't been married that long. I wasn't real familiar with the fact.

[B]

That married at that point.

[C]

We got married in the middle of February and this was November.

[B]

Okay, so not even a year. Okay.

[C]

No. But the judge said, you know, if you want to push for an annulment, we will have to set another date. We'll have to go through all the evidence and all this. And I said, so if I agree to a divorce, it is done and over and finished today? And he said, yes. And so I get granted the divorce. It's in the divorce decree that that particular truck is mine. But I'm still left with, I don't have a title and I still don't have regular plates on this vehicle. I find out that I can put insurance on it, but that's not my big concern. My big concern is I sent this guy $40,000 and I don't own this truck.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

So it comes out that he had used that $40,000 to put a down payment on my truck. A down payment on the new truck that he had purchased and a down payment on that 30 foot travel trailer.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

That basically had, you know, been making payments each month, but living off of that $40,000. He never paid for anything completely.

[A]

And he told You. That he had bought the truck and you weren't. You didn't have to make payments on it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

All right. Wow. And he financed this all on his own under his. His name only, I believe.

[C]

So I didn't really care about what he did with the travel trailer and with his truck. All I was worried about was the vehicle that I thought I had paid for and would be driving every day.

[A]

Right. So what does. I feel like in the divorce, they should be able to be like, you owe her this money and also this title.

[C]

Well, a few months goes by after the divorce, and I had gone to town, gotten groceries and supplies. I had taken one of my dogs with me, and I came home, and I backed up to the front door of my house, and I opened the hatch, and I realized that there are people standing around my truck out in front of my house.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

And, like, instantly knew. Yep. I wasn't afraid. I walked out and I said, hi, there. And he said, hello there, miss. We have a repossession order on this vehicle. And I said, I understand. If you don't mind, could I just get my personal belongings out of it? I'm not going to do anything to impede you getting the vehicle. I just would really appreciate if I could take my personal belongings out. And he said, well, you're very polite. Absolutely. Go ahead. There was another guy. He got in the driver's seat and then allowed me to get everything, like, out of the passenger side and out of the back. So the next day, I call my lawyer. I said, well, we need to go back to court because the vehicle has been repossessed. Now I'm out the money and the vehicle. A few days later, I got a call from the repo guy. He said, apparently there was a payment made on it. It's current. I can come and pick you up and take you back to the vehicle. So I did get it back, but I thought, what's to keep him from making the next payment?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he made the payment knowing that you could get it back? Yeah.

[C]

Yep, I guess so. But it just wasn't good enough for me.

[B]

No. Does he. What does he want, like, a thank you?

[A]

Like, no, it's your car. Yeah, give us the car.

[C]

I just. I didn't trust it, and I thought, I don't want anything to do with this vehicle anymore. So luckily, I had gotten a portion of the money from my father's will, and I thought, no, I'm not driving that vehicle anymore. I parked it in my yard, and I went out And I financed a different vehicle for myself. And I just, I left the thing sit. I thought I. It's not mine. I don't have a title. I don't have license plates.

[B]

And any minute you got a car, so.

[C]

Exactly. So we kept having to go back to court. And finally the judge said, okay, if you don't have a title by this day, I think he gave him another 30 days or something to get the title. I will just issue a judgment in the monetary amount that you sent him. And I had to get the receipts and everything from my bank, and that was that. So once I got the judgment, it was in my state. So then I was told that I would have to domesticate the judgment in the state that he lived in.

[B]

Oh, geez, here we go.

[C]

Oh, yeah. So that was a couple thousand dollars more in attorney fees to have the judgment domesticated. Where he lived. I knew that he owned property there. And I don't even know how I got to the point of being able to go on the federal bankruptcy website. You can create yourself an account and take a credit card and sign in and search federal. For me, I was the federal bankruptcy court, and I don't know why I thought to check there. But that's when I discovered this bankruptcy thing he was doing. He would file bankruptcy to get his creditors to stop pursuing him, but he wouldn't. Either he wouldn't pay the fee or he wouldn't be able to provide all the information. So it would start the. The process of bankruptcy. But after, you know, 45 or 60 days, they would drop it and the creditors would be able to pursue him again.

[B]

Why is he literally so annoying?

[A]

Because he's a con artist. This is his. He's a grifter and he just does this.

[C]

Exactly. So once I discovered this, I started periodically checking the bankruptcy court website because something inside me just said, he's going to file bankruptcy. And I had found out through some other dog show people in another state that he had stopped making payments on the Suburban that he bought himself. So he no longer had this Suburban. So I had been periodically checking this bankruptcy, and I see another time that he had filed bankruptcy. And this was after I domesticated my judgment. So I see, okay, now he's filed bankruptcy again. But as I dig into the paperwork and to all the documents and everything submitted, I find that he claims not to own any real estate. So I'm back on the Internet on different state and county websites where you register things and things become a matter of public record.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I was able Pull up the records for the LLC that him and his mother were managing members of. And I found that he had signed a quitclaim deed to sign the home where he lived that I had been to. He signed it over to the llc.

[B]

Oh, so they didn't. So they couldn't take it.

[C]

So he was informing the bankruptcy court that he did not own any real estate. State that's.

[B]

Is that where the real estate fraud came from?

[C]

No, that. What I later found out was they were falsifying documents like deeds to property and using those falsified deeds to get loans to purchase other property.

[B]

Okay. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[A]

So he is a cool career conman.

[B]

Diabolical.

[C]

Yep. He settled that, I guess, for around 200,000, but I think he actually was able to, because it was a civil case, it wasn't criminal. He was able to discharge that with the bankruptcy. But I contacted the bankruptcy trustee and said, you need to dig up the information that I have on the home at this address. He owned it himself up until about five days ago. He signed a quick claim deed, but if you pull up the articles of incorporation, whatever it is on the llc, you will see that it's only him and his mother that are the managing members of this llc. And so the bankruptcy trustee immediately filed an emergency motion. They got in front of the judge. They immediately sent someone to the property to inspect it. Fortunately, he. He had moved in with some other girl. He wasn't even living there.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Another young girl living in the house. And he was using it for, like, a boarding and board and train facility, but wasn't living there. Well, if you are not living in it, you cannot use it as a homestead exemption.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So they immediately seized the house, contacted the mortgage holder and the second mortgage holder, and when it was all said and done and his bankruptcy was over with, they took the house, they sold it, they paid off the first mortgage, and they sent me a check.

[B]

Oh, how much was the check?

[C]

Well, it was only around 16,000.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Take it. We'll take it.

[C]

But still, your sleuthing gets all the.

[A]

Awards, all the blue ribbons, snaps in the Snap cup.

[C]

I don't even know how I managed to just click around on the Internet to find these things, but I was absolutely determined I was not going to let him get away with this.

[B]

Good.

[A]

That's what McCann always says. Sometimes you just have to keep looking.

[B]

That's all it is.

[A]

There was stuff you already had the evidence that you needed to know you'd find something.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you did.

[C]

I think Had a lawsuit against him for $2 million for fraud. This wasn't the first time.

[B]

No. So he's obviously willing to break the law to get what he needs, and that's. You can't. Yeah. You can't do that.

[A]

It's going to catch up with you because. Yep. You don't mess with the sleuthies.

[B]

So what happened after that? Where is he living?

[A]

Yeah. Were you nervous at all that he was going to come back at you for doing this? Did he know?

[C]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I. I put up cameras. I bought a couple of guns. You know, horrifying. But his first wife actually contacted me because she had been informed of the bankruptcy by other people who lived in that. She still lived in the same area that he did. She. She contacted me on Facebook one day, and we had a really nice little conversation. And she's like, I'm really proud of you. I wish I would have had the guts to. To stand up to him the way that you did.

[B]

Good for you. That's a great compliment.

[C]

Y. She had to file bankruptcy after they broke up because he took out a whole bunch. Her name.

[A]

Awful.

[C]

And then I guess he got married a third time. Those records are yield. He got married a fourth time. And when that went really bad, she contacted me. He had told her who I was and that I had caused him all this trouble and I was a witch and just all his crazy stories. And he was feeding her the same, we're going to be the power couple. But of course, when it went bad, he created this whole Facebook page, bashing her and telling the world about what a horrible mother she is and this and that. Just. Yeah, same thing. And she contacted me and she's like, oh, my God, how do I get out of this? How do I keep myself safe? How do I keep him from doing this? Apparently he. From just emotional and financial and controlling and all that to actually he had put his hands on her, and she was really, really scared. And I just told her, I said, look, you have to cut off all contact. You have to move. She had moved to his state from another state to marry him and to be with him. And I said, go back. Go back where you're safe, where he isn't. He had done the revenge porn with her as well. And I had to tell her, we're not going to go anywhere. She reported, your best bet is to just change your number, stay off social media, and stay away from him. So.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

I'm just. I'm glad it's done and over. I have not heard anything from him or really about him. There was a period of time where he and some of his dog show friends were filing fake complaints with the registry, trying to get my judge's license revoked and trying to get me in trouble. It turns out that his license was revoked. He got suspended, but he's still out there meeting women and getting involved with them and doing these kinds of things. And, I mean, I was wife number two. He has two more since me. But after I got the judgment, after I received that check in the mail, I took all of the documentation that I had, like a whole file box full of evidence and documentation on him. Even if it wasn't anything that I could take into court that was really going to prove it, it was still things that to me, it was like, this is proof of who he is and what he does. Because there were posts on Facebook and people would send me screenshots and I would print them out and that kind of thing. So I had this huge file box full of evidence, and I finally, after I got the check, I thought, okay, now I can let this go. And I took it outside and set it on fire. So I was like, okay, I'm done. Now I feel vindicated. I'll never get all of my money but my sanity. And at least I didn't just fold up and let him do what he wanted to do. I'm like, no, somebody's gonna stand up to you one day. Because he was a big bully. He would talk to people in any kind of way and threaten them and push him around. And I thought, nuh, you're not gonna do that to me. Not to me. So I don't really know what part of the country he's in anymore, but I'm just. I'm going to go about doing my thing. I'm not going to let him control me.

[B]

Good for you.

[C]

Oh, man.

[B]

Good for you.

[C]

I did move. So there's a website that. And I wish I could remember what it was, but I found it probably seven, seven and a half years ago. That helps people who have been the victim of stalkers. Like, if you're going to move, you don't want to use your physical mailing address anymore.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

You want to get, like, you don't. You don't want a Postal Service P.O. box. You want, like a UPS store.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Mailbox. When for me to feel safe. When I first moved, for the first probably three years, I did have a UPS store mailbox. And I would drive 45 minutes to get my mail because I didn't want anybody to know where I actually lived.

[A]

So. Wow.

[C]

But long enough now that I'm. I wouldn't be happy to see him if I, you know, if I happened to stumble upon him. But I don't think I would be anyone afraid anymore.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

Well, I wanted to ask about getting back into the dog show world. It sucks to me when they poison something that you love.

[B]

Yeah, you love.

[A]

Like, he really made that world. You met him in that world. Like, how. What's your relationship like with that world now?

[C]

So before I moved, I just thought he's. He's been barred. He can't. He. Because this was like right after we got divorced that he had gotten suspended and had his license taken away and everything and wasn't allowed at events. And I thought, I'm going to go and I don't care who's talking about me. The registry has made their determination. They made the right call. I'm gonna go. And I went out there and I did everything I wanted to with my dogs and just thought, I don't, I don't care who's talking about me.

[B]

Good for you. She's like, I don't give a shit. I'm gonna have fun and go back. Where are you with like your love life and all of that fun stuff?

[C]

Stuff. I am blissfully single.

[B]

Good for you. I like that.

[C]

Blissfully single.

[A]

Blissfully single.

[C]

I like that a lot.

[A]

Will you talk more about the healing journey to that?

[C]

Moving was a really big part of that. I guess I just have a habit of taking chances. But I bought a beautiful piece of property from a Craigslist ad that I had not seen and picked up and moved 600 miles away from anybody I knew. And don't me but those dogs had gotten very old. Most of them. Well, all but one that I moved with has passed. But I have some new dogs now and I have some really cool, exciting things coming up. I love my home. I love where I live. I just really good things coming in, coming in 2026. So I'm just going to take the time for me. I want to. I want to fall in love with myself. I want to just go for you, take care of myself and just enjoy life, you know, I love that.

[A]

So.

[C]

Yes, I love that so much.

[B]

Good for you. I want.

[A]

It sounds like you like. Yeah, I heard. I think it was like Emma Watson. She was like, I'm self partnered.

[B]

I'm self partnered.

[C]

That's cute.

[A]

I love that we all have to be. I mean, you're with you that's the person you are always with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You do seem like you've done such good work around the shame of it. And I know that never really like heals completely, but I don't know. Do you have anything you'd want to share with people who are feeling shame after a relationship they're embarrassed of?

[C]

That is where you, you need to give yourself the same grace that you would give your best friend.

[B]

Oh, that's. That's a good piece of advice.

[C]

I have. I have some very dear friends and if they were making poor decisions but undergoing a really difficult time in their life, I wouldn't be like, hey, what are you doing? Are you crazy? You know, you're more sensitive and comforting and you give them grace. And this man knew that I would be so grief stricken and so overwhelmed that he totally took advantage of this situation and he saw an opportunity. And I'm not going to beat myself up about giving people second chances because I believe in second chances. I'm not going to beat myself up about trying to find love and find someone that I can really deeply connect with up through a passion that I have. I'm not, I'm just not gonna beat myself up over that. I made some mistakes and I maybe rushed into something, but if you've got a friend who, you know is going through a really hard time and she's maybe making some questionable judgments, he or she reach out to them. Because I feel like if I had more people who would have individually reached out to me, I, I may not have of making that decision and trying to give them a second or a third or a fourth chance or, you know, after, after the marriage license saying, you know, I have like one person to talk to and if I had maybe three or four good friends that I could have sat down and said, hey, this is what happens. What do you guys think?

[B]

Yeah, you know, see, and that's where your community, that's where that com. That community comes in. And that it's interesting that you say that. Like, if I had had someone who said something and it's like, well, how do you help someone that you know is in a crappy situation? And it's like, maybe just say it one time. Like, hey, it seems like you're going through something a little bit crazy. I'm here if you need me. And you're basically, you're offering an ear like, without saying, hey, this guy's treating you bad, you need to leave. And then it makes you feel like, well, I don't know that I'm ready for that. So I think that just offering that ear and being someone that they can go to is such a great way to really be there for someone. Wouldn't you say?

[A]

Knowing that you're not alone.

[B]

Yeah. Just knowing you have someone when you need it.

[C]

Right. And there are people like this out there. He's still out there doing this. And since then, I. I had a guy that, like, I went out on maybe three dates with, out to dinner once, out to lunch once, and he all of a sudden decided he was madly in love with me, started stalking me. But I saw the red flags immediately. I'm like, not gonna happen again. No way.

[A]

No, no, no.

[C]

I now trust my femtuition. I listen to that little voice inside me, and if it don't feel right.

[B]

If it doesn't make sense, it isn't so period. Thank you, Jessica, so much for sharing your story. I just know that so many people are going to be like, oh, my God, I feel so much less stupid now because I gave somebody money or I trusted them. And so it's just that sense of community that we keep creating. So thank you so much for sharing your story, and I'm really grateful for you. Thank you. And I know our audience will be too.

[C]

Well, thank you very much for providing a platform where people can come out and share their stories.

[A]

Holy bananas, dude.

[B]

The audacity. Where does this guy get it from? Is it on sale somewhere? Because these folks. Okay, so he. I'm glad that she recouped some of her money, first of all, but. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's never going to change the fact that she had all the trauma that she had to begin with.

[A]

Seriously, it's like all the trauma created those awful. Remember those commercials that were just like, this plane ticket, 300 time with your family. Priceless, priceless. This abuse, a million dollars, but pain, priceless. Like, it is just like they rob you. They rob you of time, of trust, of humanity. I just watched the way she described how she felt like not herself. And seeing her so lively and happy now, I can't even really imagine her that way. So that is what's so devastating to me. Yeah.

[B]

Like, I can't. And the fact that it just kills me how people can so easily take advantage of someone's kindness like that and someone's love like that. And. Oh, it just crushes me. It crushes my heart. And this guy, just a diabolical man. Like, what is wrong?

[A]

Well, let's go.

[B]

Let's angry.

[A]

Let's dogfish. Dogfish Debrief a show. Show dog. Dogfish. Debrief.

[B]

Show dog. Dog, fish. Yeah, that.

[A]

Back to the top. Yeah, He. He snuck in there at a time where she was distracted by everything going on in her life. Her dad being sick and needed someone to listen. She also had 12 dogs, so, like, I imagine she had some.

[C]

Some busy stuff going on at home a little bit.

[A]

12 dogs. But, yeah. So he, like, really Love bombs. Hard love bombing. If anyone is a new listener or new to the term. It's just when someone is super, super nice in a way that's like, come on, now you want something from me.

[B]

Yeah. Like, overly nice. And you can tell that, like, they're probably doing just to get what they want a little bit. Like, one. I think that, like, Ryan does it a lot to me, my son, he'd be like, mommy, you're so beautiful. Like, I love you so much. Can you send me out of school early? It's kind of like he says. He says all the wonderful things you want to hear. And, mommy, I love you, and Mommy, I'm. You're such a. You're the best mom. Like, it's kind of like that where they, like, they tell you all the great things and it's like, what do you want? But when it's in a relationship like that, oftentimes we're not thinking, what do you want? We're just thinking, oh, this guy's so nice. Yeah.

[A]

And he wasn't. It's not. It's like, it could be telling you you're beautiful, or it could be listening to you talk about your dad's treatment like it's.

[B]

Whatever it is that unmet need is.

[A]

I wrote down that she said this because it's so real. She said it's easy and fun to get caught up in dreaming of the future.

[B]

That's so true.

[A]

I feel like he talked a lot about, we're going to be this power couple. We're going to have this whole life. And in that moment, you're just kind of like, oh, I would love that. And that's.

[B]

Yeah, it helps you to fantasize and gives you hope.

[A]

Everybody can definitely think of one relationship that they probably stayed in just because of the idea of the future of it. And, yes, he did that really, really well. And if he's a good talker and a manipulator.

[C]

Yeah, he's spinning a yarn. He's telling a tall tale, and it's spinning the yarn.

[B]

That's a good way to put it. He's spinning the yarn and what kills me is how he would. He knew what he did. Like, he's not stupid. And then she takes him to court and he's like, let's ride together. Like, what. What, are we in the same store? Like, meanwhile, in another movie? Like, what are you doing? Like, do you know what I mean?

[A]

He was like the. We talked about. Yeah. Towards the end when he was, like, acting like nothing was wrong after having the biggest blow up.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What is that?

[A]

But it makes sense because then you feel crazy.

[B]

Yeah. And it's.

[C]

It's.

[B]

Yes. You feel like, what is wrong with me? You totally feel like it's you. And it's not you. It's never you.

[C]

It's. You're.

[B]

It's not your fault. But that's another reason, you guys. I say it every episode. This community that is being created, the way that Jessica and all of our guests have shared their stories has just continued to create this sense of community. And the more people tell their stories, I am just blown away by how common this is. And you are not alone. You are not stupid. A lot of people say, oh, I feel stupid. You see how easy it is for these people to just easily manipulate? It's awful.

[A]

Well, we made the parallel to him being a dog trainer, and a lot of his behavior was conditioning her to respond in a certain way. And she kept talking about how, like, she was afraid of the outbursts when she saw some of the truly diabolical reactions he had to very normal questioning or concerns. And then you're just suddenly like, if I do this, what will happen? I can't bring up my concern. I can't leave. I can't. I. I just. I almost can't move. I'm walking on eggshells all the time because I don't know if he's gonna be okay with it or if he's going to freak out and what more could he do? And that's the. I mean, he's in. Let's talk about the dog show world or the niche worlds. Like, that makes it hard, too, because I think at least that when you have a specific type of life or career or passion, you might think that nobody else can really fit into that world as. Unless they are in it with you.

[B]

And you're also wanting to impress these people. Like, you also have like a. You feel like a sense of not. Not like, trying to impress it, but you know what I mean? Like, you want to fit in with the community that you enjoy. And so when something like that happens and you, like, she was so Embarrassed and ashamed of, like, what he. And the fact that this whole community, she felt, was. Then they just knew everything. And she. But that was her place. Like, that was her community. And it just sucked to be, like, felt. She felt like she was ostracized because of what he did to her.

[A]

I know. And the consequences for women are typically more. But yeah, I mean, thinking about that Elvis episode we had where she was really deep into the Elvis fandom and community and Elvis impersonators, and it's like, in a lot of ways, finding someone who is. Who matches your freak, if you will, who, like, totally aligns with that very niche part of your life, that's hard.

[B]

And she. She was a Elvis, like, fan. Like, a crazy hardcore Elvis fan. And then after that, she was like, oh, like, then it was like Elvis everything. Elvis was like. It kind of ruined it for her. And that sucks because that was. That's her. That's what she loved. And so that's. It's kind of.

[A]

Listen to that. Go back and listen to the Elvis episode.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Thinking about it. But yes, niche communities and finding someone in that community, it's another layer of making it hard to leave. I also wrote down. I like to write down when they say something that I haven't heard as an excuse yet. And when he would get disproportionately angry and reactive, he would say, but I. I've just never loved anyone like, I love you. I've never loved anyone like this. Hard. I'm sorry that I'm reacting like this, but it's just like, my love for you is so intense.

[B]

So intense.

[A]

I love you so much that I have to dump your dog's ashes down the toilet because I love you so much. Excuse me, sir. Get a life. What the hell are you talking about?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If anyone ever ties their love to excusing kind of behavior. No, no, ma'. Am. That's not even for a second. Okay. Other things I had. There's a lot here. I think she was, like, situationally depressed or going through a trauma response. She talked about being in a daze. Foggy. And I'm no doctor, but I just have seen so much of that autopilot feeling, and it's so hard because you feel guilty looking back at the choices you make. But I hope she. She. When she said she's blissfully single, I, like, melted. I was so happy. I. I got the same response I get when people have a romantic kiss. Okay. It is just as good. I was so happy, truly, because, like.

[B]

I love that I love that about you. So much to be.

[A]

I just love, love, self love. That counts, baby.

[B]

A hundred thousand percent. And I love that point of view too. I. I really do.

[A]

Yeah. What do you have others? I mean, there's a few more big things that we haven't even really gotten to. Like all of the revenge porn. We're just. Oh, once again talking about revenge porn.

[B]

When she mentioned that he had taken. She started getting calls from other people. My first thought was he for sure posted her on a dating website. But it turns out he posted topless photos of her on Craigslist with her real phone number and her real email address. That is dangerous. That is horrible. That is ruthless. That is diabolical. That is disgusting, illegal. Not to mention it's so sad.

[A]

And it was his pattern. Like, she was not the first or last person that that happened to. And Craigslist was no help. I know this was years ago, but you guys listen to us. We were just talking about this with another more recent case. Like, this is continuing to happen and there's not enough in place to prevent it. I also think this was a good. Not good, but it is an example of not victim blaming in the revenge porn stories because it's easy to tell. People just never take nudes.

[B]

Yeah, okay, thanks.

[A]

She didn't. They were all.

[B]

She didn't know she had them. She. Yeah, she didn't know anything about them.

[A]

And even. And if you take photos of yourself and they get out, that's because the person shouldn't have put them out. Like, I don't. Like, I, I get it. We can try to protect ourselves as much as possible, but just.

[B]

Well, just don't do that to begin with.

[A]

Okay, fine.

[B]

Genius. You also, like, that's. You know what I mean?

[A]

Problematic. But go off queen.

[C]

I love.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

Like, that's like saying you deserve to be raped because you're wearing short. Short. Like, do you know what I mean? That's not, we're not doing that. Like, if I want to have a conversation, an adult conversation and send nudie duties to my man or whatever, that's.

[C]

Yes, that should be something I should.

[B]

Be able to do. Like, and then people say, well, then you can't be surprised when they get out there. Like, yeah, I, I can't. It's still.

[C]

It's not okay.

[B]

I don't care. You're a grown person and you can make these decisions. And like, that does not mean that. It, it just does not mean. Well, you're. You should expect to be a victim Then it's just like, absolutely not.

[A]

No, I think we're preaching to the choir because you guys, y' all are just such a supportive community. But it needs to be said because it always happens. And I just was devastated for that. That. That must have been so insane to go through.

[B]

Brutal. Just knowing that now all these strangers, like just random people, random strangers, they have all your information. It's terrible.

[A]

One last thing I wanted to share, and we're gonna put more in the show notes for this. She talked a lot about like the stalking resources that helped her after all of that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, she did the best she could with getting those things taken down. Was not able to press charges. But, you know, I. I'm glad they got taken down. We'll take the win. But then. Yeah. So I looked into what you talked about with the services that are supporting you when you're relocating or trying to kind of protect yourself from them. We talk about delete me, which is an online way to wipe.

[B]

It's a step of delete me. We have a discount code for delete me.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[A]

We should put that in the show notes.

[B]

We'll put it in the show notes.

[A]

But it. It's just a. A first stop for you. Basically get like a report of what information is out there online and you can have it get rid of it for you. It's like data broker, mostly information, but there's a lot more out there than you think. And it works for you on an ongoing basis. So that's a great step. Then I found the spark. It's the Stalking Prevention Awareness and Resource center. And it just has a ton of resources basically for if you feel scared at all, even in the slightest bit, like there's people to talk to. The National Domestic Violence Hotline also works with stalking support. And we talk. We have that number at the beginning of every episode. But then I was looking into this, like address confidentiality programs. Not all states have them, but if you are relocating and want to protect your address from being on in public domain, look into that program and do it before you relocate. Yeah, because if you wait until after.

[B]

Then it's already documented.

[A]

Documented already, Exactly. So that seemed promising. Spark. And we'll look more and share more as we go. But I think that was great to hear that, like you're not alone if you're trying to get away from someone like that. And it's not even police related if you don't want to go to the police. Like there are stalking prevention and support services out there. I really hope you don't need them. But she's doing better now, and he is still out there. And if you think you've dated him, let us know because. 1. Get out. 2. Holy. Like this. I don't even. I can't even imagine what else he's done. If he does some of the things he did in this story, I.

[B]

Someone else has encountered him for sure.

[A]

How special that she's been able to support his other exes. She's such a great. Jessica's like the sister I wish I had.

[B]

You know what? And she is so gracious for what she's gone through. She is gracious as hell. She's more gracious than I think a lot of us probably could be.

[A]

101. Her doggies are lucky. They have a good mama.

[B]

Yeah, they definitely do.

[A]

I love her and I love you. And this was a lot, but it was really like, I think it will help people. And she's been listening. And your stories are the reason she came to share hers. For those of you who have come on before. So thank you. And we're just.

[B]

We're so grateful that sense of community. The more you start sharing these stories, the more we talk about them. I want. I want to make these stories like this uncomfortable so that maybe the acts themselves will become uncomfortable. So when you share, you are not like you. Maybe it could be, you know, helpful for you to, like, share, share it.

[A]

But.

[B]

And a lot of people have said this has been so helpful, cathartic. But also you're helping someone else feel less alone. So please continue to send your stories. Our email is Investigate the dating detectives podcast.com you can share with us. And we would love to be an ear for you or a platform for you. And we're just. We're really grateful for everyone who shares. Thank you to our podcast or our podcast. Thank you to our patreoners who sign up for the Patreon. Also, thank you. Also thank you to us. So thank you to everyone and sharing our Sharing our podcast on your social media. And other people see it, they're like, oh, my gosh, Wow. I saw this on so and so's page and wow, this really helped me. And you have no idea how your words can be not only your own weapon, but a weapon for someone else and help defend them, which I think is just incredible. So thank you. And we have the. The new pop. The new Patreon Tier. Also, we have a. Everybody's really seeming to love it. Everybody who signed up for it. We have the five dollar tier where you get two bonus episodes every month. And then the, you know, the book club and all the things in the. The Forum. But then with the $9 tier, you.

[C]

Get the girlfriend experience.

[B]

It's the ad free listening.

[A]

No ads, baby. All episodes ad free, plus everything else you get on Patreon. So definitely look into that. And might I add, we chose our next book club book for Patreon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that if you want to join book club, we do it virtually and it's not quite monthly, but it's like, mostly it's pretty. We do it as consistent as we can, guys.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Yeah, reading. Reading is. Reading is hot. Pretty. Oh, no. Britti. God. Guys, why Can't I Talk Pretty Things by Janelle Brown is our next book. And if you'd like to read that, start now and join the Patreon. It's $5 a month, like I said.

[B]

And it's on Audible. If you're like me and reading means listening, then it's on audible and yes, it counts.

[A]

And man, this is a very layered book. Like dogfish on dogfish on dogfish on dogfish. You're just like the dogfish. It's a school of dogfish. It is a lot of dogfish, but it's so good. So you'll fly through it and we will let you know when that date is.

[B]

If you want to sign up, poster.

[A]

To the date or just join Patreon now for bonus episodes.

[B]

We love you guys so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for supporting our friend Jessica. And as always, as always, trust your intuition.

[C]

Sam.