The Evil Stepmother

Summary

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The Dating Detectives – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Dating Detectives

Host: Dear Media
Episode: The Evil Stepmother
Date: September 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode of "The Dating Detectives," professional investigator Mackenzie Fultz was absent, and comedian Hanna Anderson was joined by producer Molly to explore the harrowing true story of “The Evil Stepmother” – an Australian family’s tale of deception, manipulation, and resilience. Their guest, Christy, shares how her father fell victim to a master manipulator who left a wake of broken relationships, drained bank accounts, and traumatized children. Together, the hosts and Christy unravel the web spun by her father’s second wife, dubbed "Rose," offering listeners insights into red flags, intergenerational trauma, and the critical power of family intervention and community support.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction of Christy & the Family Background

• [06:27] Christy’s Story Begins: Christy, one of three daughters, recounts an idyllic childhood in Sydney until a family tragedy (her cousin’s death) results in her parents’ marriage unraveling.
• [09:01] Family Fracture: The trauma of loss leaves Christy's father emotionally destabilized and controlling. The eventual breakdown leads to a dramatic SWAT team intervention and her father’s arrest following a suicide threat and intimidation charges.

“That’s exactly when they fell off their pedestals to me. I was like, holy shit, they’re actually human.” – Christy [11:45]

2. Aftermath of Divorce and Meeting "Rose"

• [17:12] Picking Up the Pieces: Christy describes supporting her father post-separation, shielding her youngest sister, and managing his transition into single life.
• [19:21] Enter Rose: Two years later, Christy’s dad meets Rose through his motorcycle club. While Christy is relieved at first, red flags quickly appear — Rose is self-obsessed and immediately tries to dominate conversations with her own dramatic stories (e.g., falling off a plane with a stack of pillows [21:17]).

“No one’s gonna measure up to my mum because I just adore her. But… she just seemed to be quite self obsessed.” – Christy [20:17]

3. Rose Moves In: Manipulation & Financial Control

• [22:10] The White Knight Illusion: Rose is behind on rent; Dad steps in, paying bills and becoming her savior, as Rose exerts increasing control. She contributes little, lets her children take advantage, and manipulates situations for financial and emotional gain.
• [25:48] Marriage in Secret: Without inviting any children, Dad marries Rose in Fiji—a move Christy suspects Rose pushed for financial and legal security.

4. Fifteen Years of Living with Rose

• [32:05] Ongoing Tensions: Rose constantly “one-ups” family hardships, seeking attention and sympathy. Christy is later diagnosed with MS, and even then Rose attempts to overshadow her experiences.
• “She had a story to try to one up that. And I was like, you can’t one up MS.” – Christy [33:00]

5. The Mastermind Exposed: Multiple Affairs Uncovered

• [34:46] Shocking Discovery: In 2021, Rose’s daughter Piper reveals over Facebook Messenger that Rose has married another man ("Roger") while still married to Dad. Piper confides Rose had a decade-long affair ("Frank") in the midst of the 15-year marriage.
• [36:09] Christy’s Reaction: Stunned yet resolute, Christy cross-verifies with Piper, receives screenshots, and realizes the scale of deceit: “Frank, Roger, and Dad — all in a relationship with this crazy lady.” [37:41]

“My head was spinning...I knew she was up to something, but I didn’t think she’d be that blatant to put something on Facebook.” – Christy [35:53]

6. Confronting the Con-Woman

• [42:25] Christy Takes Charge: Christy calls Rose directly, tells her to “pack your shit, and get the fuck out of my dad’s life.” Rose hangs up.
• [44:38] Breaking it to Her Dad: Christy carefully breaks the news to her father, providing evidence and encouraging him to independently verify. He initially denies it until confronted with overwhelming proof.

"You don't have to believe me, but I want you to look into it." – Christy [45:22]

7. The Web of Lies and Community Support

• [47:39] Fallout: Dad, shocked but not surprised, finds quick housing thanks to his biker community, highlighting the vital role of social networks in recovery.
• [57:09] Meeting Frank: During the stressful pack-up, Frank (affair partner) arrives. Both men realize they’ve been lied to – Frank had been told Dad was Rose’s brother.
• [58:50] Double Dipping: Rose takes money from both men, collects “rent” from Frank while Dad pays all the household bills, amassing an estimated $2,000 a week. She’s further exposed for inventing additional lies to control or gain sympathy from each target.

8. Protecting and Supporting Each Other

• [63:31] The Standoff: With Piper and Frank’s help, Christy and her sister Katie prevent Rose from entering the house, carefully pack her belongings, and ensure Dad is never left alone with her, foiling potential manipulation or false accusations.
• Christy records the handover for legal protection, anticipating Rose might fabricate accusations.

“Don’t argue, don’t talk...I was just a bossy, bossy person telling him what to do and what not to do.” – Christy [54:10]

9. The Unraveling: Alerting the Final Victim

• [70:05] Telling Roger: When Rose moves in with Roger, Christy and Katie notify him via his friends and ex-wife. Roger, naïve about online banking, is devastated to find Rose has drained his bank accounts and attempted to take ownership of his home.
• Eventually, after Rose physically assaults Roger, she is arrested and removed.

“He had $6...She started screaming at him, ‘this house is mine.’” – Christy [80:56]

10. Aftermath and Recovery

• [83:44] Finalizing Divorce: Christy orchestrates the divorce, doggedly tracking Rose to serve papers. Rose, predictably, tries to dodge service.
• [88:02] A New Family: Piper, the step-daughter, asks Dad to walk her down the aisle. She’s embraced as family, establishing bonds that transcend the trauma.
• Frank and Dad foster a new friendship – “a bit of a bromance” [89:19] – both supported by community afterward.

“If she needs me, she knows she can contact me…she had her real dad and my dad on either side of her while she walked down the aisle.” – Christy [88:56]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "That’s exactly when they fell off their pedestals to me. I was like, holy shit, they’re actually human." – Christy [11:45]
• "Pack your shit, and get the fuck out of my dad’s life." – Christy to Rose [42:25]
• "You don’t have to believe me, but I want you to look into it." – Christy coaching her dad [45:22]
• "He had $6...She started screaming at him, ‘this house is mine.’" – [80:56]
• On Piper’s courage: “The mental barriers I’m sure she had to go through to get past everything she learned from her mom…it’s really brave. Piper, best person in the world alert. Someone give her the Nobel Peace Prize.” – Hanna [101:13]

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [06:27] – Christy introduces her background and family history
• [09:01] – Family falls apart after cousin’s tragic death
• [17:12] – Christy supports her father post-separation
• [19:21] – Dad meets Rose; red flags appear
• [25:48] – Dad secretly marries Rose
• [32:05] – Christy describes living with Rose as always a competition
• [34:46] – The Facebook post reveals Rose’s new marriage and past affairs
• [42:25] – Christy confronts Rose and then informs her dad
• [47:39] – Dad receives confirmation; community steps up
• [57:09] – Frank and Dad meet, realizing the full extent of manipulation
• [63:31] – Christy and Katie prevent Rose from accessing the house
• [70:05] – Notifying Roger and learning he is another victim
• [80:56] – Roger’s devastation and Rose’s erratic exit
• [83:44] – Christy organizes and successfully serves divorce papers
• [88:02] – Piper’s new family bonds with Dad
• [101:13] – Reflection and praise for Piper’s bravery

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Lessons, Red Flags & Takeaways

Red Flags and Patterns

• The “one-upper” who always centers herself in every story and seeks endless sympathy.
• Isolating the victim from family and controlling communication/access.
• Rapid escalation to legal/financial commitment (marriage, joint accounts).
• Spinning multiple conflicting stories to different parties (e.g., calling Dad her “brother” to Frank).
• Lies related to employment (“cleaner fell out of plane,” “flight attendant”), trauma (curing an autistic grandchild), and feigned vulnerability (caring for PTSD “brother”).

How Christy Protected Her Dad:

• Direct but gentle confrontation (“You don’t have to believe me, but I want you to look into it.” [45:22])
• Ensuring her father had community (biker club) to avoid isolation
• Never leaving him alone with Rose again after the deception surfaced
• Carefully recording all interactions during property split for legal protection

Reflections on Parentification & Community

• The hosts and Christy discuss the risk of “parentification” — children having to protect or manage their parents’ lives.
• Importance of not being afraid to take charge when a vulnerable parent is targeted.
• Value of community for emotional, practical, and even emergency support.

"If you are in a situation like this…do not leave them alone with that person again once you know what’s going on." – Host Commentary [104:01]

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Final Thoughts and Advice

• Go gently but firmly: Approach a scammed or abused loved one with evidence and empathy – never shame or overwhelm.
• Don’t be afraid to intervene: Sometimes, “parenting your parent” is necessary to break the spell of manipulation.
• Community saves: Encourage vulnerable loved ones to nurture real-life support networks, not just romantic connections.
• Trust your instincts: Document everything, and never give manipulators an opening to rewrite the narrative.

"You can’t save everybody. That’s something Piper told me. I’ve saved who I can… But you saving the one person – they can then go save the next person." – Christy & hosts [93:00]

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For Listeners Seeking Support

If you or someone you love is in an abusive or manipulative relationship, resources like the National Domestic Violence Hotline provide confidential support: 1-800-799-7233.

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Next Steps & How to Share Stories

• Listeners are invited to send “parent” stories, niche community stories, and AA/NA-related stories to the podcast (instructions provided at [109:33] and [110:40]).
• Anonymization is carefully managed–guests can withdraw their stories at any time.

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A compelling, empowering listen for anyone wanting to understand the anatomy of familial scams, intergenerational trauma, and how collective strength can bring even the "mastermind" to light.

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.

[B]

Hello. Hi.

[A]

Guess whose voice that is? It's Molly. Hi, Molly. Well, you never left. Molly is our producer. If anybody is newer to us, she's influential. She found us and put this whole thing together. And so Molly's here today because Mackenzie is working and wasn't able to join, but she loves you still. Don't worry. Mackenzie will be back very soon. But I love when Molly gets to come sub in.

[C]

Hi. I'm so excited.

[A]

You're great.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Well, we'll get into it. Our guest is so great. I am obsessed with her. I say that every time, but it's true. Like, I find that so many people that come to us are. They all have their own unique way of just, like, being incredible and strong, even if there's, like, they handle it totally differently than somebody else would. It's always just like you learn something from everybody.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I have to say that this guest in particular is. She really handled the situation so perfectly. And this is another case of a child to a. Who is being.

[A]

Who got that?

[C]

Who got so. And I think that's, like, becoming more and more common. And so these stories are great for how to deal with this. If our parents get involved in something like this because they might not be as savvy or know that these scams can happen. So how do we get them out of these situations? And I think she handled it really perfectly. And also the dogfish in this story is. What did we call her in the episode? We called her a mastermind. And I think that's.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Mastermind. I thought you were going to say wicked witch, narcissist, butthole.

[C]

I think all of those things are probably true, but just the, like, the level of mastermind is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is pretty crazy. So. Yeah. Buckle your seatbelts.

[A]

I also feel like this is just so good for, you know, you're gonna take notes on what to look out for. So even if you haven't faced something like this, it's just so helpful to share these stories. And, yeah, there's not like crazy trigger warnings. But definitely the fact that trauma has happened to her family leading up to this, I think is something a lot of people can relate to where, like, trauma really throws things off for a family dynamic and makes people vulnerable to scams and abuse and. Yeah, so just be prepared for that. But she's really great. She's from Australia. And what else? Molly, you're here. You're our producer. You. Do you have any announcements for the people before we get into it?

[C]

I don't think so. Join the Patreon. $5 a month for bonus episodes and book club and all of that. $9 a month for all that, plus ad free episodes. We have. How many Patreon we have? We have like almost 40 Patreon episodes now. So if you want more content, there's.

[A]

Yeah, you'll get some episodes there.

[C]

And most of the episodes, if you're like, what is on Patreon? You. Most of the Patreon episodes are us reading emails. So it's just more crazy stories like this.

[B]

But yes, we read.

[C]

It's like, maybe they wouldn't be a full episode or there we have like some catfish stories. Lots of like what?

[A]

Just a broader story.

[C]

Yeah, like a broader range where, like on the main feed we try to keep it more like relationship and dogfish. We don't really do catfish, but we have a lot of those stories on the Patreon of 40 episodes. I think it's 40 at this point. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Join us on Patreon.

[A]

Oh, I was gonna say one. I was just like, oh, my God, I had something and then I lost it and I got mad. But now I remember self defense. You guys have to come to self defense. If you're in Los Angeles. The Next one is September 21, which is a Sunday. And then in October, we're probably gonna do it on a Wednesday evening. If you're a weekday type of person. Wednesday, October 15th. And we might have a special guest there who doesn't live in LA but.

[B]

Is involved in the Dating Detectives.

[A]

I don't know who might know.

[C]

Who could that possibly be?

[A]

Okay, those are announcements.

[C]

Those are announcements. Yeah, I think that's everything. Let's get into the episode. You guys are gonna love this guest.

[A]

Let's give it to Christy. Hi, Christy.

[C]

Hello.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

How are you? I'm so good and I'm so excited you're here. This was fun to schedule. Thank you. Molly. We have Molly here.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

You guys heard the intro. Molly's my co host today. Thank you for scheduling with. Tell us where you're where you're calling in from, where you're zooming in from.

[B]

I'm zooming in from Sydney, Australia.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. How did you hear about us and submit your story?

[B]

My best friend was watching MacKenzie's makeup tutorials, then figured out she's a PI, then heard about the podcast and tuned into that and her and I share podcasts all the time. So she said, check this out. I had a listen and then it was just a matter of when I heard one. Decades of Deception, I think it was caught with the son and daughter. I went, oh, wow, that's. Yeah, my dad's put me through some stuff, so I thought I might just write this in. So that's what I ended up doing.

[A]

I'm sad that you have a story, but I do love. That's a beautiful pipeline of the makeup videos to tell your story. I love that. And okay, so Decades of Deception, if anyone hasn't listened to that. Same vibe. But let's. Let's get into it. Wherever you want to start.

[C]

Yeah, take us away.

[B]

So I'm Christy. I am one of three girls. My mum and dad were married for 30 years, so we kind of lived like a bit of a idyllic type life. We never had any issues. Dad was always home for dinner. You know, he worked all the time, he always provided. Everything was all good. We never really had anything like everything was perfect until it wasn't. And then, yeah, things just went a bit pear shaped. But that wasn't until I was in my early 20s. I have an older sister, Fiona. I'm in the middle. And then there's Katie, but she's seven years younger than me. So that was different growing up because we're just at completely different stages in life. But she was my rock star in this situation. So basically mum and dad were. I don't know, they just. I guess as parents you put them on pedestals. You know, they're your parents. You don't think of them as people that are dealing with relationships or issues or problems. They're just your parents. So it never occurred to me that there is drama or anything like that. It just seemed to be fine to me. But then one of my cousins was killed in a car accident.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

He was only 20. He grew up six doors down from us, so it was probably the closest I had to a brother, but absolutely devastated the whole family. My mum has six brothers, so it was one of her brothers. She did everything she could to support him. Her fear was that he'd do something to himself. It was his eldest child, his only son, so it was very, very devastating for him. And my mum would go over to see him and his wife quite regularly, like every second day, just to check in. Initially, I don't think dad quite coped with Mum putting so much energy into her brother. So it probably wasn't until about a year later, after all that, that I figured out that Mum and Dad weren't doing so great. I had actually been. I bought a house at 21 and moved out of home and was getting married and doing all that. And then he was a bit of a chronic cheater, so I left and went back to Mum and Dad's.

[A]

Wait, so how old are you at this point when your cousin passed himself? Oh, that's just. I can't imagine.

[B]

So I would have been probably 22, so that sort of brought me back home. And then I really started to notice all the problems that mom and dad were having. Dad was getting a little bit possessive, which. It was never like that. Like, he always lived his own life, he always did his own own thing, but he was always home, home for dinner. He was always there if we needed him. He's not an overly emotional person. I don't know how many men really are, but as I've gotten older, I've gone, yeah, it's just dad, you know, that's just how he's always been. But I don't think dad was really coping. Once we lost my cousin, I don't know whether it was he was feeling so much loss, which I'm sure he was, but he didn't know how to articulate that. And when Mum was trying to do everything for a brother, he felt that it was too much and she needed to be home and sitting with him. And it just became a bit controlling. And when I told people back then, oh, yeah, I'm worried about Mum and Dad, I think they're going to split. They laughed at me and said that your mum and dad aren't going to split, they're fine. And I thought that. But then I was out one day to friend's house and I just said, I've got to go home. Mum and dad are not good. I just want to be there to make sure everything's okay. Got home, they were arguing as they had been doing quite a bit, and I just stayed downstairs until the arguing got bad and then I went to walk upstairs. Now, my sister Fiona was living up the coast at the time, so she wasn't there. So I was the eldest One. And then I had a teenage sister, she'd gone off with friends somewhere, so I thought, okay, I'll go up, check it out. As I was going up the stairs, Fiona said to me, the guns, the guns. And I knew my dad had not guns that, you know, like, guns is not a thing, really, in Australia. Yeah, yeah, it's really not. But he had his grandfather's rifle or something, you know, it was a keepsake thing. I just never thought anything of it. But she's screaming in the phone to me, the guns. I'm like, mum, get out. So Mum got out. Dad was arrested by a SWAT team who turned up and put him in the back of a paddy wagon, basically. And yeah, it was a bit. A bit traumatic, I have to say. I had to go on, especially after.

[C]

You had such a stable childhood with them, for that to be the way it ended up. That's very jarring.

[A]

That's like strangers.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's exactly when they fell off their pedestals to me. I was like, holy shit, they're actually human. And, yeah, so I had to go and find Katie because she wasn't at home at the time. I was in a panic. I said to Mum, go to your brothers, I'll find Katie. And I ended up going out there later. But that was really hard because I then had to go to the police station and give a statement, you know, between my mum and my dad. And it was just hard. It was just like living on another planet because it just wasn't. Just wasn't our life.

[A]

Can I ask, your dad was arrested for what specifically? Like threatening or.

[B]

He said. Yeah, he said he was going to kill himself.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

And he was climbing up into the roof where the guns were stored, but the police charged him with intimidation of mum and stuff like that. She didn't want to charge him, but they did it all anyway. So. Yeah, and then we had to go to court because I was there. I went with them. I basically walked across the courtyard, you know, to Mum, to Dad, and did that. Fiona was still up the coast. Katie was too young. We tried to protect her as much as we could from having to know any of it.

[A]

That, like, forces you to grow up too.

[B]

Yeah, really quickly.

[A]

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[B]

So that's pretty much their separation. And then I, then dad was a mess. I had to help him find a house, pack and move his stuff. I went through having to make sure he was eating properly. He lost a lot of weight. He, he felt like, I don't know. Mum and dad been together since mum was 13 and dad was 16.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So just very young and very reliant on each other. He blamed everybody and anybody. So I become quite hard with my dad.

[C]

But you were the one that was, that was there for him and helping him get back on his feet, correct?

[B]

Yeah. And I was very brash with him. I didn't take any crap. Katie and I would go once a week, but I'd turn up first, like for dinner and I'd go in and say, get all your complaining out of your system. Because not in front of her. Like it was just protect her because she was too young. And even now she says I didn't know that or I didn't know that. I'm like, yeah, because we didn't tell you.

[A]

So that's so much to carry.

[B]

Yeah, just. You just do what you do. I mean, it's your family. What do you. You know. Yeah, there's just no question. So anyway, so that was all fine, dad. I just used to stock him up with ready mills and stuff. He seemed to be getting along okay. He's always been part of a bike club. He bought a Harley and I pierced his ear and all that when he went through his midlife crisis.

[A]

You pierced his ear?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a movie scene.

[B]

Yeah, he cried like a baby. You're like, okay, dad, big tattooed, so funny. Tattooed man, big biker. But that was how it was. We just kept cruising. I was, as I said, in my 20s, so I, I was working full time. I was doing all my things. I'd check in with dad, make sure he's okay. And then after, it was probably, I'd have to say maybe two and a half. Maybe two, two and a half. He met, he met Rose two and.

[C]

A half years later.

[B]

Yeah, it was a couple years. I. I kind of felt at the time, is it too soon? But then I kind of felt like a burden had been lifted off me a bit because totally no longer needed me full time. Like met somebody and great, he's gonna get on with his life and he's moved beyond mum a little bit and he seemed happy enough. So I was like, okay, great. I think it was through his bike friends he met Rose and then he brought her over for us to all meet. And look, no one's gonna measure up to my mum because I just adore her. But yeah, I was like, I was a little bit hesitant because I was like, as long as dad's happy. But she just seemed to be quite self obsessed. Like it was always about her.

[A]

What was her like, age, background, vibe.

[B]

She has three children. She said she'd been divorced. Eldest two kids, their dad had passed away, they were older, they were out of home. She had Piper, who was her youngest, that was living with her at the time. Piper's about the same age as Katie, so that was tough because I don't think it matters what age you are. It. It affects you. And it particularly affected Katie because that was time with her dad that she didn't get. But Piper guy, she's still like living.

[A]

At home in that way.

[B]

Yeah, she was still teenager, still trying to figure it all out, so I think that was pretty tough. But when I first met Rose, she told us all about. She worked at the airport as a cleaner, which is, I thought okay, very good. But she'd. She told us that she had been carrying a stack of pillows and fallen out of the plane.

[A]

I'm sorry, what? The plane. On the ground, I assume.

[B]

Yeah, the plane's on the ground. She's cleaning it. And she walked along with a set of pillows and fell out the door. Why was she telling you that? Yeah, that's why. I couldn't quite figure out why she was telling us this. Like, she was saying she was injured and all this. And I. I looked at dad skeptically, like, I don't think so. She'd be dead. But I didn't say too much. I just went, oh, okay. Yeah, that. That's a bit.

[A]

It sounds like a cartoon.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it just didn't seem real. So I just. You know, I just kind of went along with it. And then eventually dad told me little bits like she was behind on her rent. And I think he sort of felt like he was the white knight coming in and rescuing her. And.

[A]

Wait. Totally. Which is exactly he wanted from his wife. Oh, my gosh. He wanted to be the center.

[B]

I really think the white knight thing appealed to him. Like, oh, I can help. I can be the hero in this situation. So dad eventually moved in with Rose and Piper over an hour away from us, but dad did everything. He cooked, he cleaned, he washed, he ironed. He worked full time. And we were a little bit like, what? He was doing everything, and she. She just didn't want to clean. She didn't want to clean, she didn't want to wash, didn't want to iron.

[C]

Did she still have the job at the airport?

[B]

Yes, she was working, I guess, shifts every now and then or a couple of. A few times a week, but.

[C]

So your dad was doing the cooking, the cleaning, and paying the bill?

[B]

Working.

[C]

And.

[B]

Yeah, he was paying all the bills. He was paying the rent. He was paying the food, electricity, cars, like that, he paid for. She never really contributed. It was in his mind. It was, well, her money's her money, and I'll look after the house type thing.

[A]

So how did you know this? Were you. Was he open about this, or.

[B]

We'd sort of ask questions here and there when Rose wasn't around.

[A]

I love you. You're like, I'm. I do this, too. I'm just like, don't bullshit me. I have an idea of what's going on here.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Again, I'm pretty blunt with Zad. So when I'd speak to him, I'd say, well, why are you letting her kids do this? Or that you'd never let us do that. So why the heck are you putting up with things going missing from the house or. Oh, you know, things being.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Like alcohol. He had a bar. It just go missing. And she'd blame her son and say, oh, he must have taken it. And I was like, why are you putting up with that? That's just not you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

As I know. And he's like, well, you know, it's her kids. It's not my kids. I can't. I'm like, but really, it's your alcohol. It's your stuff that's being stolen.

[A]

Or it's not, like, necessarily your job to discipline her kids, but it might be a conversation to have with her, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Like, can you tell him to stop.

[A]

Stealing my things, letting it happen. Yeah, but I do. I mean, I do understand. I don't know that I understand. I've seen it where this kind of thing happens and people at that point in their life just kind of step back and are just like, I'm not going to deal with stress anymore.

[B]

I'm not going to.

[C]

I also see for you guys as the family, it's kind of like, oh, do we really like this lady? No, but at least dad's happy. It's better than me taking care of him forever. Like, I think that's also super valid.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't want to be responsible for him. I just, you know, I wanted him to have his own life. I wanted him to pick up his socks and get on with it. I didn't, you know, basically I was.

[A]

You didn't want to parent your parent, and that's really fair. And I hope you didn't feel too much guilt about that.

[B]

Yeah, I was struggling with that.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

So that's how it was. Nobody really liked Rose, but we just kind of put out with her. So it just went on like that for years. Wasn't until I was about 28 when I met my husband. Now, husband met him at 28. I was married at 29. I had my first child at 30. So I went, babe, babe, babe. Done a dust out of the way.

[C]

So by the time that you got married, how long had your dad and Rose been together?

[B]

So they'd probably been together for, I'd say maybe three and a half, four years, something like that. It was. I don't think it was a great deal of time that they were together. I sort of questioned him when, like, I got married in 2007 in August, and he flew off to Fiji in November with Rose, and they were getting married.

[A]

I was gonna ask were they planning to get married? And did you.

[B]

Yeah. Hesitancy about that. Yeah. I kind of questioned dad saying, really? Do you really have to get married? Can't you just be together? And he's like, well, you just got married. I said, yeah, but I'm 29. You've already done it.

[A]

Like, yeah, that's very different.

[C]

Like, do you need to do this? It's like.

[A]

And also the implications of it. I mean, it really can complicate a lot of legal stuff and money stuff. And I would want to know, is Rose pushing for it?

[B]

I kind of felt she was. But, yeah, they went off to Fiji. None of us kids were invited to the wedding. It was just kind of. This is what we're doing. They had friends that were going, like, bike friends and different friends of hers and his. And did Piper go to Fiji?

[A]

Yeah. Did Piper go.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

So they said, no kids.

[B]

That would have been a. Yeah.

[C]

When your dad told you that he was going to Fiji to get married, did you ask why you weren't invited?

[B]

Yeah, I sort of said, so we're not invited. And he's like, well, none of the kids are going. So I just went, oh, okay, whatever. But that was his justification. No kids are going. It's not like hers are and you guys aren't. We're just not having any of you. I said, oh, okay. So, yeah, they got married. So I then officially had a evil stepmother.

[A]

Let me pull up my Monarch budgeting app so we can see. Maybe something that I'm surprised by. Okay. Yeah, I. Okay. I spend so much more money on food than I expect. I feel like that's everybody, and that's okay. You know, we need it. Food's important, but it is nice to have something so clear to show me where I'm at. Because if I had no idea, that's when you get those fun little surprises that are really serious. Monarch is what I've been using to budget, and let me tell you why. Monarch is the app that I've been using to budget, because it's really built for people with busy lives. Like, if you've put off organizing your finances, this is so great. It does the heavy lifting. It links all your accounts in minutes. It gets clear data. It uses visuals, visual learners. I love a little emoji. I love that stuff. Smart categorization of your spending and real control over your money. You'll never need to look at that spreadsheet again. Boring. I used to do, like, my own manual spreadsheets of budgeting. And I would do it color coded because I was just like, I couldn't. My brain didn't like it, it would resist it, and I would try to do everything I could to make it pretty. And now I don't have to. Thank goodness it's not just another finance app. It's a tool real professionals and experts actually love. It was named the best budgeting app of 2025 by the Wall Street Journal. No big deal. I've heard of them before. Also, if you are in a couple, Monarch gives your partner full access to your shared dashboard if you want. So you can link accounts, budgets, goals, spending activity all in one place, no extra cost. So maybe some fights about money might go down. Those are the number one reason relationships fall apart. Surprise, surprise. So no more guessing, no more hiding. No more, oh, I didn't realize how we spent that much. Like, you get to have control. And that is freedom. That is freedom, especially for women. You guys know how I feel, so don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code datingonarchmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code dating. Fall is my favorite season, and it's almost here. The crisp air, the cozy sweaters, warm flavors, it just makes everything feel so comfy. And it's the perfect time to reset and bring healthy habits back into focus. I am literally always saying that about fall. And that's why we love Green Chef. I'll be serious, though. I really like Green Chef. It's the number one meal kit for clean eating. And I do think it's the number one for a reason. It makes it really easy to spend less time in the kitchen and more time, you know, enjoying the season. Because they have heat and eat meals, which are delicious, wholesome meals in just three minutes. And it's not like the frozen meals you get in the grocery store that don't fill you up. Like, this stuff is really made with your health and your nutrition in mind, but it also tastes good. Green Chef recipes feature fresh, organic, seasonal produce and 100% responsibly sourced proteins to help you feel your best. I love that when I get my box of Green Chef, it tells me where the, like, the produce is coming from, that it's local, local farms. It's real clean ingredients, helps you build lasting, healthy habits without the hassle. They have salads ready in just five minutes. They have protein Filled breakfast, nutrient rich smoothies. I love the smoothies. Anything you need. And dietitian approved weekly meal options. You get to pick what you want, fit your lifestyle. If you want the mediterranean choices, the gluten free, the plant based, I do love the mediterranean options. That's what I've done mostly. But they change every week. So it's week to week flexibility. You can adjust your plan, match your mood, match your schedge. Whatever you need, I use it and you should too. Make this fall your healthiest yet with Green chef. Head to greenchef.com 50datingdetectives and use code 50dating detectives to get 50% off your first month. Then 20% off for two months with free shipping. That's code 50dating [e-mail] 50dating detectives and let me know what you get.

[B]

So they just kept doing what they do. Dad was working, as I said, all the time. We'd check in with him, you know, we'd go to their house and we'd be chatting, all of us sitting together, both my sisters, myself. And we'd say, oh, I had this test done or you know, this is wrong or whatever. And she'd have a story to one up. It's like she'd say, oh yeah, that's like when her daughter, her son had this or that. And it always felt like it was a competition. Like we weren't competing, we're just updating dad. And she'd jump in with a, oh yeah. But you know, she had a, a worse thing or yeah. So I always found that really frustrating. We all did. And I mean, I was diagnosed with Ms. In 2014.

[C]

I'm so sorry.

[B]

And she had a story to try to one up that. And I was like, you can't one.

[A]

Up Ms. Like, and also just don't jump. Just say, oh, no. Just, just shut up for a sec. That's all you gotta do.

[B]

Just shut up. Even my grandmother, his mother didn't like her.

[A]

Well, that's telling.

[B]

So, yeah, it was always about her. But we just kind of put up with it for dad's sake. I guess we did a lot for dad's sake.

[C]

But it also is like things that are like, she's annoying, we don't like her. But like, I, I have friends that date people like this where it's like, they annoy me. I don't like them. But it's nothing so horrible that I can really say anything about it, you know?

[B]

Yeah, you can't put your finger on it. They're just really grating on your nerves.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Without even trying. So, yeah, this is the way that we were just living with the Rose situation for about 15 years. Everything was just same old, same old, raising kids, doing all that. And then in 2021, Katie called me and was distraught, and I was trying to get the words out of her, and she told her that Piper had called her. Piper thought that Katie was closest to dad, and she quickly informed her that, no, no, that would be Christy, not me, but tell me what's going on. So Piper told Katie that Rose on Facebook, Rose had married another man in January of 2021.

[A]

Like, her Facebook relationship status changed, you mean?

[B]

No, it was actually a post on there that said she'd gotten married at this point. She'd been married to dad for 15 years.

[A]

So she's out of the blue, a wedding picture?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. She just married another man. So that's what Piper was calling to say. She says she's. She's got marriage. I've got a lot to tell you. It was probably a. A dump, an emotional dump for her to get a lot of things off her chest. But basically, yeah, this post on Facebook was something that she said. I just can't ignore it. So she screenshot all the posts and all that and sent it to us, and obviously we could then find her. And we were looking at it. I was like, okay, I thought something was going on, but really, to marry somebody else would be a bit crazy.

[A]

Can you.

[C]

I want to back up really quick. You get this call from your sister. And is your sister crying on the phone? Is she upset?

[B]

Yeah, she was really upset.

[C]

And what was your first thought?

[B]

My first thought was I knew she was up to something, but I didn't think she'd be that blatant to put something on Facebook.

[A]

My gosh. And this is, like, public on Facebook, you can see this wedding announcement.

[B]

Then there's all these comments underneath of their friends. Oh, congratulations. So happy for you.

[A]

When was the last time you had been with your dad and Rose together?

[B]

Oh, would it have only been within the last month? Like, it wasn't.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah. There was no. No indication that. That something was wrong. So as far as I knew at that point, she had gotten married to this Roger, and I knew nothing of this man. I was like, who the heck is that? And Katie was just so upset. She goes, I. I don't know what's going on. Piper's told me all this stuff, but I don't know. I leave it with me. So I rang Piper got the details, she sent me the screenshots and what have you. At that point I knew that she had married somebody, was on Facebook, that she had married somebody. Piper had also told me that she was always cheating. She also had a 10 year affair with Frank, another man. Oh my goodness. I was a bit like, okay, like really? My head was spinning. I was like, hang on a second, what do you mean? You know, who's Frank and. And who's Roger? And just trying to wrap my brain around it so I could understand, like, what do you mean? And so it turned out there was Frank, there was Roger and there was dad, all in a relationship with this crazy lady.

[A]

And Piper, what's Piper like when she's telling you this?

[B]

She was really upset at the time, but she said, I just have to spill the beans. I can't hold onto this anymore. So she had been dealing with this for many years with her mother. She always knew a lot of things that she didn't want to know. And she never, I guess she never wanted to betray her mother, which I can understand that your mom is. Your mom is your mum. But at the same time it was. Her mental health was going downhill fast because she wasn't coping with having to carry the lies for her mum and she'd had a emotional breakdown.

[C]

Was it. It was this post on Facebook that kind of pushed her over the edge.

[B]

I think she, yeah, I think at that point she had decided that enough is enough. And she had a lot of respect for dad, that he had raised her from teenage upward. He'd done a lot of things for her, she had a lot of respect for him. So she couldn't handle anymore that her mum was making her lie or, you know, expecting her to lie. And maybe that's why they always seemed a bit distant, her kids. I think they've always known everything and probably don't get close to us or anyone else because, you know, they don't want to trip up, they don't want to ruin anything like.

[A]

Or they just don't want to be part of her life and her schemes.

[B]

Yeah, I'm very much a schema. So she, yeah, Piper was. It was tough for her because she knew if she told the truth and told dad what was really going on, she knew she'd lose a mum. She knew there'd be no relationship with her after that. But in the end she just said, for my own emotional situation, I need to tell you guys what's going on. Yeah. And of course we thanked her like, you know, she goes oh, she's not. A long time ago, I said, yeah, but you've done it now. You've told us, so we can handle it from here. I'm so glad that you did. I'm sad that it got to that for you, that you're so emotionally beaten down that you don't know where to turn type thing.

[C]

Were you shocked getting off the phone with Piper?

[B]

My head was spinning. I, I, look, I, I kind of expected when she said, oh, there's a post on Facebook, I thought, okay, she's cheating. I've been through cheating. It's crap. And we'll, we'll handle it. But then when I spoke to Piper and I figured out dad was one of three men, I went, okay, this might be more than what I initially thought it would be. Especially when she told me that Frank had 10 years of dad and Rose's 15 year marriage. She'd been having an affair. So it's just like, okay, I don't know how to, how do you wrap your brain around that? So my head was spinning. I didn't know exactly what to do. As I said, Fiona up the coast. But she was actually away at the time at her in laws and they live out bush. So I couldn't get her on the phone because normally I'd ring her and go, oh, this is what's going on. What do we do? Because being the two eldest, we kind of handled as much as we could so that Katie didn't have to. But I couldn't get her, couldn't get her on the phone. So I just said, okay, it's all right, I'll handle it. And then I told Katie, I've got everything, I'm gonna handle it. I said, I'm gonna call Rose. And she's like freaking out. She's like, she's like, what? You can't do that. I'm like, watch me. Because by this stage, I was angry. Not only have you got a post up that you married somebody else, to me, that's like, you're humiliating my father by doing that. Like you're making him look like an idiot. So I was angry by that point. So then I called Rose and I said, I just, I played very nice initially. I'm like, oh, hi, how you going? Where you at? Are you away this weekend? And she's like, yeah, yeah, away horse riding. And I said, oh, okay, no way.

[A]

What's the horse's name? Roger.

[B]

Which horse are you riding? So I said, yeah, well, about that, I kind of know everything. And she said, oh, what do you mean, oh, no? I'll talk to him when I get home. So I took that to mean she was going to talk to dad when she got home. And I said, no, no, you're not. And she's like, what? And the way she was speaking, I knew she must have been. She wasn't on her own. Like, I knew she wasn't on her own that she was obviously with Roger and basically she didn't want to talk to me because she was with Roger. So let's not talk about that. So I just said, yeah, well, you know, about that. I really want you to come home, pack your shit, and get the fuck out of my dad's life. That's exactly how I said it to her.

[C]

Love, I'm obsessed with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like the only way to help me.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Okay, sure.

[B]

Which is. I expected that, but I felt better because. Yeah, yeah, I told her exactly what I think. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And her hanging up on you is also confirmation in a way.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Not that we had any doubt.

[C]

Well, she's, she's, she knows in that moment she's caught. Well, I also. There's this moment with all of these dogfish where they know that their lives have caught up with them and there's this like, squirming moment of how do I get out of this? And that's.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I feel like the hang up is like, I have to figure out how I'm getting out of this hang up and then I'll figure out what lies I'm gonna tell.

[B]

And that was my concern. I thought, okay, well, is she gonna rush home? Is she gonna call dad? Is she gonna, you know, what is she gonna do?

[A]

Say that you're lying? Yeah, they can do all of that.

[B]

Absolutely. I thought, yeah, here we go. Like, we'll see what she does. Well, nothing. She didn't come home, she didn't ring dad, she didn't do any of that. So it's not what I would have expected. No, me either. So I was like, what is her play here? Like, I'm obviously on the right. There's a game and I don't know what it is, so I need to figure out what it is. But next I'm going to call dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had to write myself down some notes because there was so much information going round and round in my head that I had to write some stuff down because I was going to forget.

[C]

Did you have any fear that your dad was going to not believe you and take Rose's side.

[B]

Yes, yes. I. I knew I had to go steady, go easy. Don't sort of fly in and say, you know, you're one of three men and blah, blah, blah. I had to sort of go easy because I didn't want him to dismiss. Like I said to him on the phone when I did speak to him, you know, you don't have to believe me, but I want you to look into it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So when I did ring him initially, I said to him, you know, where are you? He's like, on the way to the bike club. I said, okay. It was Anzac Weekend, so that's like, a big weekend because he's in the Veterans Motorcycle Club. So it was Anzac Weekend. It was three days of events and things happening. And so I knew dad would be busy, but I couldn't let it go. Like, I couldn't leave it and let her come home and lie and connive and whatever. So that's why I rang dad and I said, so, what are you doing? He's like, I'll end up staying at the bike club tonight because I'll have a drink and whatever. I said, oh, that's good. You know, you got your friends there. He's like, yep. I said, okay, all right, now, the reason I'm calling, I said, be prepared. I'm about to blow up your life. And I just told him, that's exactly, you know, I'm gonna blow things apart. I said, I don't want you to just react. I want you to look into it. I'll send you through what I've got on Facebook. Rose had said she got married. Dad said, oh, Rose doesn't have Facebook. Oh, sit. Ah, got news for you. She does. And she posted that she married someone else. He's like, no, I can't believe that. I said, okay, I'll send it to you. Investigate where you can. Like, can you have a look? You know, ring her kids? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Talk to Piper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even I love the way you said, you don't have to believe me, but I want you to look into it. Like, giving some of the control to someone who's about to lose all control feels like a good correct move.

[B]

And he was. I was just worried because of the way he'd reacted with my mum and all that. I was like, is he gonna lose it about his second marriage going down the tubes? So that I was concerned about. But at the same time, I was more concerned about what she would try to do now that she had been out as well. So I Sent all the info to Dad. I said, check it out. Get back to me. Let me know. So within 10 minutes, he rang me back and he said, it's all true. And I said, okay. All right.

[A]

Was he stoic or emotional?

[B]

He swore a couple of times. I'm pretty sure he hit his steering wheel. But he. I don't think he was completely surprised. Like, I think deep down he knew something was wrong. Yeah, but he definitely, definitely did not know the extent of what. What was wrong. So once I knew he was not driving, once he was at the clubhouse, I said to him, oh, and by the way, she's been having an affair with Frank for 10 years. He goes, no, I've met Frank. He's a lovely bloke. I just, you know, there's no. There's no way that she'd be doing anything with him. They used to work together. He's been over. I've met him, you know, lovely man. I said, okay, well, she's been having an affair with him for 10 years.

[A]

So, like, that makes it so much worse that she paraded him, like, in front of. I know, her husband.

[B]

And then I was like, how do you not have conversation that brings up that you're actually married? Like, right. Frank thinks, okay, I'm in a relationship with this person. My dad's married to Rose. And how do they all interact without it coming up?

[A]

Does he not care?

[B]

Does he know?

[C]

The fact that your dad's met Frank makes me feel like that's part of the thrill for Rose.

[A]

Like, totally. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because I'm like, how did she.

[C]

And why. Why would you do that if not because you're getting some kind of satisfaction out of, like, hooding these men?

[B]

I'm not counting out of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I'm. I'm so good at this, you know, I'm so good that I can have three men in my life and nobody can figure it out type thing. So dad spending three days with his bike club, drinking, obviously writing himself off where possible, because why not? But I was really relieved that he had some mates there. Rose was meant to come back and start packing up the house because they were renting and they'd been there for over 10 years, and the owner decided they wanted to move back into the house, so they had to find a new rental, pack up the house, do all that. So dad started freaking out because, well, where am I going to live if I'm on my own? And he started doing the whole panic thing. I said, look, it'll work out. And within 10 minutes. He rang me and said, I've got a house. One of the guys here is. Offered me a rental on a acreage type property and he lives next door. And I said, wow, you're homeless. For a matter of, you know, maybe 20 minutes.

[A]

Okay. Bike club.

[C]

That's great. And that's why community is so important. And I feel like it's so rare for men to have community.

[B]

So true.

[C]

So I'm so glad he had this bike club.

[B]

So, yeah, 20 minutes. He had a new place to live. I was, okay, well, that's sorted. No worries. And then I said, and what about Rose? Have you spoken to her? What is she doing? What's happening? Cause I just thought she'd rush home and try to. I don't know, like, try to fix it. And then when I spoke to Piper again, she said, it's all about the money, so don't be surprised if she doesn't come back and try to manipulate your dad into taking her back and making it okay. And she'll do all that. But at the same time, she also said she'd been told her whole life that her dad was a Abusive whatever and wasn't in her life because Rose said this or that. He's a lovely man.

[C]

So when did Piper find that out?

[B]

She would have been in her teen years before she found anything out because her dad had tried, but trying to deal with Rose was a little bit tricky. Could imagine, like she'd be making up stories left, right and center. So in the end, he stepped back and he let her grow up, I guess. And he's since then given her all the court papers, everything that he had to try to show her that this wasn't like, that's.

[C]

That he wasn't abusive.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. That he, you know, he tried and he wanted. And she made it so difficult. So.

[C]

So Piper, on this call, told you that it was about the money. It was never about love.

[B]

Always about the money. Yeah, it's always about the money.

[C]

And to watch out for Rose accusing your dad of domestic violence.

[B]

Yes. Her other concern was she will either come back and try to weasel away back in, or she will come back, antagonize him and try to get him to react, and then she'll call the police and have him up for domestic violence.

[A]

So that breaks my heart because I wonder if knowing his backstory when she met him was appealing to her.

[B]

That's what I was also concerned about because I thought, well, she knows of how badly it went the first time.

[A]

So who Wouldn't believe her if she.

[C]

Sounds kind of like an out for her.

[B]

Exactly. So then she could just say, oh, look at his record. You know, he's got a record of this and.

[A]

Yeah, mastermind.

[B]

Exactly. And honestly, I, I can't wrap my brain around how she kept all the stories straight. But, yeah, so that was basically how it all went down. I said to him, have you spoken to Rose? No, no, no. And then he eventually told me, okay, she'll be back in a couple of days at the end of the weekend and she'll come and pick up some of her stuff then.

[A]

So he had spoken to her, apparently.

[B]

But I think it was more text message because she, she, she wouldn't have been wanting a confrontation. She would have just been.

[A]

Yeah, she's on her honeymoon.

[B]

Yeah. She just like, you know, sorry, glazing it all over. I know, right?

[C]

No, she's like on to the next, so.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was just like one to the next and next.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So from there, dad said that, oh, no, she'll be back in a couple of days, got to get a stuff, blah, blah, blah. I said, okay, no worries. So then I rang Katie. I said, two days, we're at Dad's. We're going to handle this. So Katie and I went to Dad's. Like, dad lives over an hour away. But we made it a point that we were going to be there when Rose got there because I didn't want her to try and antagonize him or bait him into arguing or anything like that. And I told Dad, I said, don't argue, don't talk. Don't. They, like, I was just a bossy, bossy person telling him what to do and what not to do. And so we went there on the day that she was supposed to be coming. We went into Rose's bedroom. Rose and dad had separate bedrooms because my dad is a chronic snorer. And like I've always said to mom, you've got industrial deafness to sleep next to that for 30 years, you've got to be crazy. But Rose didn't. She had her own room. So we went into her bedroom and Katie and I started packing up. Boxes, clothes, anything we got her hands on. I had a locksmith turn up and change the locks on the house so she couldn't get back in the house because it was all in Dad's name. It was a rental. He paid all the bills, he paid the rent. It was all him. So if she wanted to argue that point, I was ready. I was like okay. Yeah, I can fight this battle with you. So we started packing up everything we could in her room, including her bed, her chest, like, everything. And we put it down on the driveway out the front so she could pick it up from there. She had all her jewelry in the safe. Dad got a safe, and she'd put all the jewelry in there. This is all her wedding set and jewelry that dad or a Frank had given her. So it was only this safe was thousands of dollars worth of jewelry. And I said to dad, you know, you can keep the wedding set if you know you want and sell it. And he's like, no, no, just give it to her. So in his mind, he said, just give it anything she wants.

[A]

Yeah, get. Just get. Good riddance.

[B]

Yeah. He just said, I just want it out of my life. I said, okay, no worries. So we continue packing up. And then Piper and her partner turned up while we were there, and we gave her a hug because she was emotional. And she said to dad, I'm so sorry. And she was feeling it, like, you know, I should have done more. And I'm like, no, no, it's all good, you know? And her partner was like, I'm so relieved this is out in the open. Gosh. He said, she just has been struggling with this for so long. He said, her and I argue about it, like it's creating issues in their relationship because of her emotional state. And he said, I'm so. I'm so glad this is out. She said, I just can't tell you how happy I am that this is finally at the point where it's out in the open. But, yeah. So we're eating lunch. The carpools up. Frank gets out.

[A]

You're kidding me.

[B]

No. So Frank, I didn't know, like, on site. I didn't know him. I'm like, who's that? And they're like, oh, that's Frank. I'm like, oh. I'm thinking, oh, this could go so wrong. I was a little bit hesitant. I'm like, what do we do? But we just sort of sat there. Dad walked down the steps, and he and Frank embraced. They just immediately. Immediately, there was no. No hesitation. They just embraced. And both kept apologizing to each other. Like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Because obviously they'd both been duped by Rose, so they weren't. Neither of them was angry. It was more about being done the same way.

[C]

So when Frank was meeting your dad before this, who did Frank think your dad was?

[B]

Her brother.

[A]

You are kidding.

[B]

Me? No. Rose had told Frank that Dad was her brother, that she was paying half the rent, half the bills, paying like half of everything with the house, and then also having to pay her own rego and insurances and all this kind of stuff. So.

[A]

And I'm sure Frank maybe got helped her in some ways financially.

[B]

Frank gave her everything? Yeah, Frank gave her half the rent. Frank gave her money for rent.

[A]

She wasn't even paying.

[B]

Correct. Wasn't even paying.

[C]

So she had your dad paying for her life and then she had Frank thinking he was paying for her life. But actually that was just her fun extra money.

[A]

Her income.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that was her income. So I worked out was probably about $2,000 a week that she would have been getting between the two of them.

[A]

And then Piper knows this is going on and is either trying to avoid her mom or what, and put in these positions or she asked to be.

[B]

Like, yeah, that's my mom's, that's my uncle. Like, she showed me messages that she'd sent directly to her mom and basically said, you've got to be kidding me, stop this right now, you're disgusting. She told her mother what for, and, you know, she'd write. She wrote back to Piper and said, oh, no, no, no. Made out like my dad knew all about her marrying Roger. It was a thing to stop Roger's ex wife getting money and it's all just, you know, convenience. Like, oh, my God. Yeah, he knows all about it.

[C]

So you're comparing notes with Piper and you're comparing notes with Frank and you're learning all of this at that lunch?

[B]

Yeah, I think my dad's brain sort of was going to explode at that point. So Frank basically said, oh, yeah, you know, she'd go to Bali every year with her friends. And my dad said, no, no, I took her to Bali every year. She'd gone on a trip to the UK with her friends, as far as dad knew. And then Frank told us, no, no, I took her to the UK to meet my sister because it was all so serious with them. He was introducing her to the family and as far as Frank was concerned, they were going to live happily ever after. Like, it wasn't, you know, there's no problem.

[C]

So how did Frank find this out to show up at the house that day? Did Piper also call Frank?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. She rang and said, it's out. Like, this is what's going on. And trying to explain to Frank that my dad was not her brother, she's married to him. And Frank was like, what do you mean, like, I've met him? As I said, like they'd met and stuff. So how she managed to keep it where they didn't disclose anything to each other, I don't know. I don't know how that all played out.

[C]

Well, she's a master manipulator, clearly. I'm really feeling for Piper, honestly, more than anyone in this situation.

[A]

I wrote poor Piper because heartbroken for her because that must have started for her if she's in her 20s now. Like, if it's been at least 10 years of her knowing she kind of grew up with this lie.

[B]

I'm thinking that maybe from the get go, her mother's always been, you know, manipulating situations or people or, you know, whatever.

[A]

So I'm proud of her.

[C]

I know it takes a lot to go against your mom. I mean, there's no bond that's more intense than your mom. So.

[B]

Yeah. And she speaks to her other two siblings now, but initially I think they were pretty ticked that she'd blown it all up and told the truth. And. And I said, well, that's what makes you different to them and to your mother, because you've got a heart to think this is wrong and you've done the right thing. So if they're not on board with that, then too bad. But, yeah. So as far as Frank knew, they were brother and sister.

[A]

Did Frank have money?

[B]

Yeah, he did. She's done a pretty good job of taking a lot of his money because he was buying her, like, cars and vehicles and a camper van to go away on holidays. And where is storing all this stuff.

[C]

That he's getting her?

[B]

Obviously at his place, because dad never saw any of it. Right. She'd say to us, you know, Frank's wife has got a camper van if you ever want to borrow it. Frank doesn't have a wife. Yeah, Just all the things that they figured out, like the lies, you know, as far as dad knew, she'd be going to work, couple, two, three times a week. And then Frank said, no, no, she hasn't worked for a long time. She just comes to see me and then obviously Roger. So she didn't have a job. She wasn't working. She was just getting money from dad and from Frank, and that was her income. So even while this was all happening, there was about three lots of 600 taken out of dad's bank account. Even after she knew it was all blown up, she was just taking cash out of the account.

[C]

She's scrambling.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's when I Knew, okay, she's starting to freak out a bit because she's grabbing money where she can. So that was basically, we kept packing. Frank men went, Piper and her partner left. So it was just us. And then Rose sent a message to dad to say, oh, I'll be there later tonight. Like, you know, I can't make it now, I'll be there later tonight. And I just said to Katie, I said that's because she thinks we won't be around because she knows we've got kids, she knows we've got families and stuff. Like, Katie had a three year old at the time. So, you know, you're kind of ready to go back and deal with all that. I said, so she's hoping we just won't be around. So we just said, that's okay, dad, we're gonna stay tonight. And dad was like, oh no, you know, he didn't wanna be, you know, I can handle it. And I'm like, no, we're handling it. So I said, get your dog, go inside. And Katie and I sat on the front fender and ordered pizza and just waited for Rose to turn up. And she actually frightened the absolute crap out of us because she came walking in from around the corner. So we expected like the car to pull up and her to get out, but she just came walking in the dark around the corner and scared us. And I just started laughing because I thought, oh my God, we've just been busted. And dad was inside with his dog. And we said, don't come out. Like, we'll deal with it. And she came up and she's like, I want to go inside. And I said, no, the locks have been changed, you're not welcome. And she said, but I want to go in. My jewelry's all inside. I said, yeah, well, we'll look for it, but now you're not going in. Then she said, I'll call the police. I said, that's okay, I've already called the police. They know what's happening. I've already spoken to them and said, this is a situation. They told me to do whatever, to de escalate and keep it as calm as possible. So that's what I'm doing. So no, you can't go inside. So she said, well, I'm gonna call the police. I said, okay. And then she expected Katie to hand a phone over for her during the police. And Katie goes, no, no, go and get your own phone. Yeah, she just walked off after that. And we didn't have a car with her at all.

[A]

Like she truly.

[B]

She had to be parked around the corner. There's like. And that's weird. Bizarre. That's what. Yeah, I'll just pull me.

[A]

Well, she probably wanted that. She wanted to kind of not have the car alert you or him. Like, maybe she just thought that he was away trying to come still.

[B]

That's when I thought maybe she was going to manipulate that into just breezing through it. Let's stay together. It's all great. Yeah. Yeah. So then I figured Roger was around the corner in the car, so she then took off.

[A]

What the hell is she telling Roger? That she has to get her stuff from her brothers? I guess. I don't even know.

[C]

I have a feeling we might find out very soon.

[B]

Okay, okay, I'll find out. And then dad got a message to say that, well, while you've got the army there, I'll come back tomorrow. And Katie and I just lost it. We couldn't stop laughing. And. And Dad's like, what are you laughing about? And Katie's like, well, if my being, like, morbidly overweight and her being in a wheelchair is the army, then the country's in a lot of trouble. Couldn't stop laughing. Like, it was just. I don't know. That's what we do. I think we just laugh when. When there's nothing else to do. It's like a weird gallows humor.

[A]

Also, Rose is just so drama.

[C]

Well, I want to say, though, that you guys handled this situation in such the perfect way. And that's why she's scrambling, because if you were to leave him alone, who knows what she might have said to him. And that's why she's like, oh, the army's there, because.

[A]

And you not even not letting her talk to him, just stonewalling her and being like, no, we're not giving you a reaction. You don't deserve it.

[B]

She was very angry with the way that was handled.

[C]

I bet she was.

[A]

That's how you know it was working.

[B]

She's not impressed. Well, I want to pack my own things and I want to go in my house and I want. I said, I bet you do.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I said, I don't care what you want. Whatever you want, you tell us and we'll make sure it's out the front for you. And that's what. The next morning, she turned up at like 9 o' clock in the morning because she thought we'd obviously going home. And I text her, I said, we're not leaving, so we'll see in the morning. You know, Because I'm a smart ass and I can't help myself. And then she turned up at like 9 o' clock in the morning ready to come and get her stuff. So I started recording. I recorded the whole thing. Yeah, on my phone. Because knowing what she was like, I was like, who knows what she'll make out happened during this situation. So I just recorded it all. Katie was running around grabbing things. Dad was inside. We said to him, don't come out, we'll handle it. So don't even come out here. And it was good to record it in that. I could go back through it and check that everything she said she wanted was given to her. So there was no debate about that. So we kind of decided that, okay, so Frank is on board. He knows what going on. But what about Roger? She apparently married this Roger. What does he know? What does he know of her? He obviously thinks he's got this thing going on with her. So we decided. I decided that there was no way Roger was not going to know all about this. So once we had all the house packed up and all that, dad was back at work and Katie and I said about finding Roger, because that was our mission. I was like, I'm gonna find him.

[A]

Did I tell him dad in that at all or.

[B]

No need. Oh, I just told him. He goes, I don't care what you do as long as she's out of my life. Like, honestly, that's been his approach for ages. Just keep her out of my life. I'm like, yep, I do my best.

[A]

I get both. We say that a lot where it's like, if you need to just move on for your safety and your health, great. If you can notify the other people, awesome.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Well, I decided we were gonna do that. Find Roger. Vindictive of me. Probably just to go, no, screw you.

[C]

Is it vindictive or is it you? I mean, did you see your dad in Roger that? Like, we're not gonna just leave this poor man.

[A]

Yeah, both can be true. You can be glad to ruin her life and doing the right thing.

[B]

I felt sorry for Frank, I felt sorry for dad. And I thought, what does this mean? Bloody Roger? No, who knows what Roger knows? So basically we went on to the Facebook post where they said, oh, I got married. You know, all the congratulations. And Katie and I were posting on there going, bit of a shame that you're already married to. To dad and stuff. Anyway, those, all those comments were getting deleted. So we knew she had a hand in it. So we're like, okay, that's not going to work. And then I said to Katie, I said, that's all right. I said, I can still see Roger's friends list, so I'm going to start writing to people. So I contacted anybody on his friends list that had the same surname. And just when this is the situation, I just want somebody to tell him. And if. If he's happy with that and good to do that, then that's fine. That's his decision.

[A]

Empowering him with information.

[B]

Yeah, Just want to tell him what's going on. So in the end, it was his ex wife contacted me and I'm like, oh, hi. He rang me and I told her everything. She's like, oh, I didn't like her from the minute I met her. And I'm like, yeah, kind of get that all the time. And then I found out that Roger actually was looking after their son. Their son on key, apparently autistic.

[A]

And Roger and his ex wife's son.

[B]

Yeah. So their son was autistic, and Roger was looking after him every day. And she said, but the minute Rose came along, that changed because she, instead of him looking after him every day, it was now just weekend visits because she didn't want him to have all that contact with him.

[A]

That's all.

[B]

So, I mean, besides that, things just kept coming up. Like, I can't even explain to you how much stuff was coming through by different people. Yeah. Well, then his ex told me that Rose had said she had autistic grandchild and she'd cured them. So. Oh, God. What with how? I don't know. It was so that's not a thing. That's horrible. No. And I said to his ex, I said, listen, she does not have an autistic grandchild, so that's crap. So I kind of enlightened her to a few things. Obviously, I said, listen, protect your son, because she was not giving him medication and stuff when he was with them. And I said, just, you're gonna have to protect your son, because I wouldn't trust her as far as I could.

[C]

Throw her on that call. Did Roger's ex wife say that she was gonna talk to Roger about this?

[B]

She did not. She said, I can't tell Roger. He just think I'm trying to ruin his relationship. And, you know, they had so much tension with their son. And I said, that's fine. And then she told me, contact Matt, Matt's a good friend of his. Send him a message. And so I did. And then Matt called me and I spoke to him and he said, I don't want to do it. I don't want to tell Roger because he's, like, head over heels in love with this woman, and. And I know it's going to devastate him. So he said, I don't want to do it, but I will, he said, because I don't like her, can't stand her. So he went and told Roger. Roger was devastated, heartbroken, all the things. Roger then called me, called Piper, called my dad. We all gave him all the details, told him as much as we could. And the story was, as far as Roger knew, she worked for Emirates Airlines. She was earning about $240,000 a year. And we're like, no, she doesn't. And Roger's like, yeah, she's got a uniform. She puts her uniform on and goes to work. I said, well, going to work is just going to the next man. That's not.

[A]

She got a little Halloween costume.

[C]

Yeah. I feel like flight attendant is a really good cover for having affairs with two other men. Totally.

[B]

From the airport.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Literally no idea.

[A]

She can get it on ebay. I mean, she just. Yeah, yeah. That's such a good job to say. She's all over the place.

[B]

Oh, yeah. She's earning all this money, so it was all just scrap. She said that dad was a broken Vietnam veteran with ptsd and she was caring for him, and that's the only reason she was helping him. I can't remember if he was the brother or a friend or some crap she made up, but, yeah, he was, you know, ptsd, blah, blah, blah. And we're like, no, Roger, he is her husband. And he's like, no, no, she's not married. I'm like, yeah, yeah, she is. I'll send you the proof. I'll send him the photo. The. Well, I wanted to ask about the.

[A]

Yeah, the legal stuff. Like, did he think he. Did they do any legal marriage?

[B]

Well, that's already got him. I said, I thought you guys got married to go, oh, no, no, no. That was all just, you know, pretend. I was like, I really don't know. Like, I don't know whether he knows or did she just.

[A]

She probably said that she took care of it.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Did she just say, I'll take it to the registrar industry or whatever?

[C]

Right.

[B]

And he was none the wiser. I. I really don't know. He was absolutely blown away by everything we're all trying to tell him. And then through Piper, we learned that he was going to stay with her and let her live with him.

[A]

I was so worried you're gonna say that.

[B]

Okay, so.

[C]

So he decided that he was.

[A]

Yeah, she got to him or she got to him. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

She manipulated the situation and said that no, no, they have not been married. And just the lies like lie, lie, lie. And he chose to believe it. I mean you can't make somebody believe something. And that's what Matt messaged me and said we've done everything we can. Our conscious is clear. It's up to him now. Like he will have to live with it. So we just basically left it to, you know, she went and moved in with him. I spoke to Roger a few times and. And this man is very country, very old school, is not clued in on Internet banking, does not know.

[A]

Oh, a perfect target.

[B]

Yeah, perfect. Absolutely perfect. So he's like, oh I'll have to go to the bank. Cause I don't know how to do all this dialogue. Do you understand? Like I'm very clueless. I said mate, you gotta protect yourself.

[A]

For your son's sake if not for yours.

[B]

Yeah, well she tried to get her name on his house because he had gotten inheritance from his dad and bought a house and she was trying to put her name on the deeds of the house to protect him from his ex wife. Apparently that was the theory.

[C]

That's who he needs protection from.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So. So Roger said oh no, I didn't put her on the house. I said well thank you know, thank goodness for that. That's one thing. Anyway, it was all. He was going to do this and do that and it didn't happen. She, she manipulated him, ended up living together. They were, I think it was probably, you know, a year or two. Dad had done the settlement with Rose money financially.

[A]

What was that divorce like?

[B]

Well, they weren't divorced initially. Dad did the money side of it first to. She wanted. I don't even know what she wanted initially. But dad said I'll give up 50,000. I said I'd give her five and too bad she's already stolen so much from you.

[C]

Yeah, I'd give her nothing.

[B]

Why give her anything?

[A]

Like sell the ring if it goes.

[B]

To court, she is the one that owes you money. And he's like oh no. But you know, we've been married for 15 years. Like he's old school. You know, we have been married 15 years. This is how you're supposed to do it, blah blah blah. So I said whatever, but do not give her 50. I said drop that number down. You know Before I even got a hold of him. Next time, he said that he had offered her 30 and she'd accepted. Okay.

[C]

That was, I mean, $30,000, and she's been cheating on him for a decade. It's like, yeah, lottery.

[B]

Yeah. And then I was like, all right, well, you've done it now. Like, we can't change it. But, yeah, I said, the only bonus is you're still working at the moment, so you can try to recoup that money back into your savings account. So he did the financial settlement with her. He moved into the property that he was offered on the day it was all blown up. So he was with his bike friend next door. So that's basically what happened with him afterward, he went and lived at that. You know, has been in that house ever since. The same unit. Very happy about that. And then I got a message.

[C]

What else could it be?

[A]

I need a drink.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

At this point.

[B]

Yeah. All right, Nate. So there I got a message. One of her kids was living up there with her up the coast with her at Roger's house. And he sent the message through to Piper and said, mum and Roger have broken up. And so then Piper's like, well, she's at it again. They've split up, and she's trying to take his stuff, and she won't leave the house, and he doesn't know how to get her out. And all the same things he figured out. He had four bank accounts, which he didn't know about because she'd created joint bank accounts, and he knew nothing about it because.

[A]

And you said he didn't know how to do any of that online banking stuff.

[B]

He was like, she could have just created accounts online, and he had no idea. As far as he knew, he had 10,000 in his sort of spending account just sitting there. He had nothing. He had $6.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. So they split up. He was not only devastated, he was angry because he'd figured out that he had all these bank accounts, that he had no money left in his bank, that he was paying for her mobile phone, which he didn't even realize. So he had a phone disconnected because he was like, no, I'm not paying for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she started screaming at him, how dare you. You know, this house is mine. You're not just going to kick me out and all this kind of stuff. And he said, no, it's not yours. It's my house. Anyway, he tried to go back at her and say, no. Well, she hit him. She hit him. And the police were called so she was arrested and taken away in a. In a paddy wagon to the police station.

[C]

Well, thank God for that.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I said. Oh, good. Like, while she's at the police station, change the locks and put all the crap out the front. She really loves it if you do that.

[C]

I was gonna say I feel bad for Roger because Roger didn't have people as good as you and Katie in his life to be the buffer between, you know.

[B]

Well, I made. I made sure I contacted Matt and his brother and his sister just to let them know, like, do you know what? On at the moment, he might need a bit of support because I figured they'd all deserted him by that point because he was digging his heels.

[A]

He went back.

[B]

Oh, no, she's great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm sure she then, as they always do, push even harder to isolate you.

[B]

Anybody that's ever isolated, very isolated. And then she was going around town saying that he had dementia. Oh, my God. So if anything was sort of. She was caught out a little bit, she'd just say, oh, yeah, yeah, no, he's got dementia. That's why he said that. Or that's why that happened. And I was like, what? Why dementia? Really? So, yeah, this.

[A]

Nobody believes him.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. So nobody believed anything he said. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, he couldn't afford to change the locks. I mean, he had no money. He had $6. So he couldn't afford to do anything about changing locks and doing stuff like that. So there really just wasn't. Wasn't much he could do. And then I decided, okay, time's up. It's time to get the divorce. And dad just kept saying, oh, I don't need a divorce. I'll become a monk before I go near any other woman. And I said, yeah, but why stay connected to crazy? Like, we might as well just get rid of it.

[A]

Because, like, if your dad had to go to the hospital, she's legally tied to him, like, and has.

[B]

I hate that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's what. Then I said, that's it. You're getting a divorce. Got to put it through. You're going to pay for it, I said, because we're not going to wait until she wants to pay for it. So I. I'd had done a little bit of work with one of my uncles on family law a bit to get him custody of his son. I'd studied a bit and figured out how to court and how to put in affidavits on all this kind of stuff.

[A]

So you're iconic.

[C]

No, I'm. Yeah, I'm, like, pretty obsessed whenever anything.

[A]

You're like, fine, I'll study.

[B]

Yeah, that's what Mum say, what are you doing today? Oh, I've got my lawyer hat on today. So I applied for the divorce and problem being that I sent the paperwork. Well, I sent Rose an email to say, can you confirm your address? Like, I knew where she was, she was living on it. My Katie had moved to one of her investment properties and just by happenstance, was 15 minutes away from where Rose lived. So we knew where she was, we knew everything. But she liked to play coy and like, oh, I'm not giving them my address and all this kind of stuff. So I was like, that's fine. I just sent the divorce papers to the address because I knew that's where she was in a registered whatever. She never responded to any of that. So I just emailed her and I said, if you don't give me this information, I'm going to have to have you served in person because I know where you are. And again, she just. Yeah. And because her and Roger had broken up, I was like, oh, the wicked witch is going to fly again and we'll never find her because that location.

[C]

So it was some other man somewhere.

[B]

Yeah. Moved on to the next one. Yeah, yeah. Well, we were told the name of the next one. I don't know if it ever happened, but there was another one after. After Roger. So I said to Katie, it was coming on Christmas last year. So I said, listen, I can't get a process server to do this before Christmas and if they've broken up and she moves, then I don't know where she'll end up. So I said, what about your husband? Can he just maybe do it? So it was kind of. I don't know what the word was. I used serendipitous, the way it all worked out, because Katie's kids were running late for school, her boys and her and her husband dropped them off at school. And I thought, oh, while we're over this side of town, we'll drive past the house. She had all the paperwork I'd sent, given her everything she needed to serve her. And just as they were driving up the street, Rose walked out of the house and was going to get in her car. So Katie and her husband pulled up really quickly. Katie jumped out. She looked like a delivery driver. And because it was Christmas, you just think, oh, you know, the delivery man's coming to drop something off. She had a little box under her arm and everything, along with the envelope that she was going to serve. So she, she walked up to. To Rose and held out this envelope. She had a cap on so you couldn't see her face. And you know, walked up, put the hand out to Rose with the envelope and she said, well, you've been served your divorce, so. And Rose looked up and said, wait, I know you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You think? Yeah, maybe.

[C]

I'm wondering though what your relationship is and your siblings relationship is with Piper.

[B]

Since the separation. I was checking in with Piper all the time. How are you? Are you okay? You know, things would be said via her siblings. Oh, you know, mum said this or that and I'm like, don't take it on board. You can't. It's not on you. Like, there's not much I could do for her.

[A]

But you're doing a lot by checking on her.

[B]

I'm in contact with her. If she needs me, she knows she can contact me. She. Father's Day's just passed here. So she went and saw dad, gave him some chocolates and did all that kind of stuff. Dad will go down and have dinner with him on occasion, her.

[A]

And she's still with that. Okay. Married.

[B]

Yeah, they're now married. Piper actually called me and asked permission to ask dad if he could walk her down the aisle when she was getting married. Because she said he has been my father figure lot for the last 15 years and I'd love him to walk me down the aisle. And I said, that's fine, ask away. You don't need our permission. And she's like, well, no, just out of respect, I think I need to ask you guys. And then so basically she had her real dad and my dad on either side of her while she walked down the aisle. So she had them both there. Rose was not invited. So that was.

[C]

I mean, I was gonna say she lost family, but she also gained family.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, she did, yeah.

[B]

So if we, I mean, because we're all located not close, we all live all over the place. But if there was an event, like if we're going to do something, we'd invite her and they'd come along. So we definitely keep in contact with Piper. Frank still got contact with him on occasion. You know, dad and Frank had a bit of a bromance there for a while.

[A]

I was going to say they could start a little club of their own.

[B]

Yeah, well, they did coffee a few times and they'd chat on the phone and. Yeah, so they had a bit of a bromance for A while, which was nice.

[C]

How is your dad doing now?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Look, as long as she stays out of his life, he doesn't have a problem. She did email me on Christmas Day last year, wish me a merry Christmas.

[C]

That is. That is such a narcissist thing to do. You're not wishing me a Merry Christmas. You want me to think about you on Christmas?

[B]

Yeah, well, it was funny because we're all together. Like, dad actually comes to Mum's house for Christmas and we're all together. So we were all sitting around the table and I said, oh, like, I never check my emails on events like Christmas and stuff, but I must have been fiddling with my phone and it popped up and I said, oh, I've got an email from Rose. And we all just started laughing while we're eating our Christmas dinner because it was just stupid, whatever she was saying. So I've got no doubt. I reckon there'd be many men that would come out of the woodwork and go, oh, I know her. That happened to me and, you know, I met her. At this point, I think there'd be. Have you looked a lot more.

[A]

Have you looked at any of those.

[C]

Facebook groups or do they have them in Australia? I don't even know.

[B]

I. I guess so. I'm kind of like. I've been out of the dating game.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I think it makes it hard that she's. She's an older woman, so it's older men. So how do we even get in touch?

[A]

They're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to think that you telling this story and people talking about stuff like this is helping people wake up to it. Whether or not it's specifically their story. It's just like, be more aware.

[C]

But we know she's with someone new because these people don't stop. I mean, it's her job.

[B]

She can't be on her own. There's definitely never on our own.

[C]

So do you have any advice for people who might be going through something like this with a parent?

[B]

I think just go easy with them at first because it can be really shocking for people if they have no clue about what is happening behind. With partners cheating and stuff like that. It's not always obvious. As I said, I've been through it a few times, so it's. Yeah, it's tough, but you just got to, I think, be kind and as I said, approach it in the. I'm not saying it's true, but can you look into this? Because I think it's important and go about it that way, I think. Yeah. And then because he was a perfect target, really, because he was divorced and lonely, and then she came along. So I think he was a great target, as I'm sure Frank was, and as I'm sure everybody was like, she knows who to target. Yeah. And what to do and what to say.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I want to put her on blasting. Still able to do this.

[B]

This is how frustrated I was. I was like, how do we blow this up? How do we stop. Stop her? And it was all very intense for me because I was like, I can't handle her just doing it to the next person and the next person. But you can't save everybody. That's something Piper told me. I've saved who I can. She said, like, she saved my dad. And Frank said, but I can't save everybody. So I said, fair call.

[A]

You saving the one person. They can then go save the next person.

[B]

And that's.

[C]

And you told. And you told Roger, and that is not nothing.

[B]

Yeah. So he. Yeah. Go love him. He's, as I said, perfect target. But, yeah. I'm really bummed that I didn't get a photo of her being arrested. That would have been gold.

[C]

We can make shirts.

[A]

If you see this woman run, run the other way.

[B]

Run, run, run.

[C]

Well, thank you so much for telling us this story. You are like the human embodiment of if it's gonna get done right. I'.

[A]

If I needed someone on an island. Yes. I would love it to be you.

[C]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you're. You hold it together for a lot of people, and.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That they're very lucky to have you.

[C]

I hope you see how this story could have gone differently without you, that, you know, your dad is very, very lucky to have you.

[A]

And our listeners are, because you just modeled for so many of them, how they can navigate stuff like this.

[C]

It's a perfect way to navigate in. At every step, you just did what needed to be done. And I think that a lot of loved ones of people that are going through this really don't want to be, like, too overbearing or insert themselves too much in the situation. And I understand that feeling, but you not having that and just being like, I'm coming. We're dealing with this. It changed the outcome of what could have happened.

[B]

I didn't give him an option.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Just to. Yeah. And then I rubbed in later that, oh, by the way, Grandma was right.

[C]

Grandma was right.

[A]

I was right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm glad that this at least ends with her dad getting out of It.

[C]

I know.

[A]

I'm.

[C]

I know.

[A]

I know that life doesn't always get.

[C]

That ending, and we don't always get.

[A]

That ending here, but I can. I can breathe a little bit because they did get them out. But we should. We're gonna. Let's dogfish debrief about why they did.

[C]

Yes. Well, first, I want to talk about this phenomenon of these older men getting into these relationships, because it is more common than I thought it was, I guess. But now we've had two stories with these older men, and it's made me think a lot about how vulnerable these older men might be, because they are.

[A]

From a generation where they're dependent on their wives or women in general.

[C]

Yes. They, like, had their mom, and then they got married, and then they had their wife to take care of them. And so then if that ends, they're kind of like, okay, well, I can't be alone because I don't know how to do my laundry. Or even if it's just like, I.

[A]

Don'T know how to be alone.

[C]

I just feel like these older men are ending up in a position where they're super, super vulnerable to situations like this.

[A]

I was thinking about why that happens on a deeper level. Because, of course, generational and, like, gender roles is pretty obvious. There's, like, that emotional dependence that's built when we culturally discourage men from having emotional relationships and support systems outside of their romantic partner.

[C]

Yes, very much so.

[A]

They emotionally don't have anywhere to go after they've depended on that.

[C]

And that also goes into. He didn't really have community after the first divorce, and then his daughter kind of had to take care of him. But after the second divorce, he did have community, and that allowed him to find a place to live and not completely fall apart and have people he can depend on that aren't just his one daughter who's taking care of him and putting everything on her. And I think that is a lesson in why we need community. I'm, like, very passionate about this. That, oh, yeah, everybody needs community. We are not meant to live with just this one person meeting every single one of our needs. And community comes at a price. Like, you have to put in the work to have community, but you're putting in the work for a reason. Like, people with community are far less likely to end up in situations like this. So.

[A]

And I feel like, in general, we value romantic relationships over all other relationships in our culture, and I don't think that's how it should be. 1. Because some people don't want to be in a romantic relationship, and that's fine. And two, because I don't know, a community is a lot more helpful than just one individual.

[C]

Well, we know. We know that community is helpful because what do all of these dogfish do? They try to isolate you because they know if you have community, it is so much easier to get out of these situations. So that shows you. And so if you're home tonight and you're thinking, oh, I'm supposed to go get dinner with my friends, but I'm so tired and just go. Fostering those relationships is a lifeline. Like, it is not just like your little goofy friends that you hang out with. Having community can really save you.

[A]

Go to the party, Go to the party.

[C]

Go to the birthday party.

[A]

And I, I was. I mean, this kind of ties into also just the parenting. The parent.

[C]

Yes. That's the next thing I wanted to talk about is parentification.

[A]

Look at us.

[C]

Because it came.

[A]

I love a debrief.

[C]

It came in. So the parentification came in so many different directions. If you don't know what parentification is, you should go to therapy, because I'm sure it's happened to you. But parentification is where you become the parent to your parents in some way. And I think this can happen for reasons that are maybe not healthy and then other reasons that maybe are necessary. So, like, yeah, like if you help.

[A]

Your parent get into a nursing home, obviously you're. You're taking on responsibility that at some.

[C]

Point we all kind of become the parent to our parents if we're lucky enough for our parents to get old enough for that to happen. But I think it can happen earlier as well. And it happened to all the children in the story. One, our guys, Christy.

[A]

And then two, I have all caps so big. Poor Piper.

[C]

I know. Yes, Piper. The parentification was really like her having to develop empathy without being taught it from her parents and, like, then betray her mom because she knew her mom was doing the wrong thing. Oh, my God.

[A]

The position she was put in was so cruel and narcissistic. Such a very clear. This. I mean, this mother had no business being a parent and had no empathy towards her own daughter. Like you said, she didn't model that at all, or any of her kids. And I said it when we were talking to Christy. Like, I don't even know how to imagine the conversations that were going on in that home. To deflect, to manipulate the situation and lie. The lies this woman told.

[C]

I mean, we talk a lot on the show about the people around A dogfish and how they hide their lies and how horrible we think that is. But we've never had this situation of it being a child hiding lies for their parent. And I think that is so different than a parent or their child or a friend or a brother. A child to their parent is like, I don't really think we can expect them to go against their parents. So Piper doing that, I think, is like. It's the, like, mental barriers I'm sure she had to go through to get past everything that she learned from her mom and the love that she had for her mom to, quote, unquote, betray her and do the right thing. I, like, I can't even imagine.

[A]

I think there's that step getting to the point where she even understands for herself what a good person is, and then the next step of having to be like, and now do I want to do the thing that I will now lose my mom? Like, I won't have a relationship with my mom if I do this. I know what the right thing to do is. The consequences are so intense.

[C]

Yes. And she did it anyways. Really brave, hyper, best person in the world alert. Someone give her the Nobel Peace Prize.

[A]

I love that they're still friends with her. I was, like, crying thinking about the dads walking her down the aisle. I know. I was very sad about the dad, her biological dad, being kind of pushed out of her life. And obviously we don't know that situation at all. But I was like, God, that's a hard thing, too. I don't know the situation, but he kind of stepped back, and that as a child, I can't even imagine.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Well, I think that, like, you stepped back from me.

[C]

I think this is something that we have seen with women that have come on this show is threatening domestic violence.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Like, not threatening you with domestic violence, but making threats that they did something that they didn't do. It's come up more.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's like the crying wolf situation. And it's horrible because.

[C]

And I want to be clear that that doesn't happen a lot. Like, I want to be exactly like this is.

[A]

That's why I was going to say it's horrible because it makes. Makes the people who say, oh, well, we don't want to believe women all the time have a real strong argument that they lean on when the statistics are not in that favor.

[C]

Not. Yes. Not that many people are making false claims like that, but the people that are doing it. That is, like, the worst thing I think you can do because it hurts not just who you falsely accused could ruin their life. It also hurts all of us and every woman who's ever been hurt and every man that's ever been hurt in a domestic violence situation. So that's crazy. But I do want to talk about all of the good things that. Oh, yeah, I have a whole list.

[A]

Me, too.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Can I start with how to break the news to someone that they're being cheated on?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Whether it's a loved one or even just like the quote on unquote other woman. I loved some of the ways she talked about that. Just the whole, like, you don't have to believe me, but I want you to look into it.

[C]

I think that's really smart.

[A]

That's one of my favorite phrases.

[C]

Yes. To give them the power, because I think it's a really powerless feeling situation. And it's really easy for someone to say now, you're full of shit. But if you put the power in their hands to figure it out, it's like, I think it's much more likely to be successful.

[A]

She was gentle but direct. She made sure. She was like, where are you? And. But then she was like, I need to tell you something, and it is going to blow up your life.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And that's all you can do. And then making sure he had his little community around him, his biker community, and I think Pipe Piper did that well, too. She made sure she went to his kids and she went to the community around him.

[C]

Yes, totally.

[A]

And made sure they were involved. And then obviously they showed up for him, which I'm sure you have a lot about that, too.

[C]

Well, I think that the biggest thing is if you are in a situation like this with a friend or a loved one, do not leave them alone with that person again once you know what's going on. Because I think that from the outside perspective, you can think, oh, now that they know all this information, they're never going to get back with them. But you don't know what emotional relationship they have that could pull them back in. And you want to believe that this person that you love and have been with for 15 years couldn't do those things, which makes it a lot easier for them to convince you that they didn't, that there's some other explanation. So.

[B]

But don't.

[C]

Don't give them the chance.

[A]

Don't give them an inch. Do not give them an inch. Don't give them an inch.

[C]

And I said that you can see what happens when Roger did not have that. Roger had no one to stand as a barrier between him and Rose. And so he got back with her and then it ended with her hitting him.

[A]

So also, I know that every scenario is different. And sometimes you can do all of these things and the person has planted enough seeds already. And that's what I thought of when you said that, like, you don't know what emotional relationship they have with them. They could have been planting seeds to discredit this information for years because they know what they're doing is wrong and you can do all the right things and it still sucks sometimes. And I, I know that. But I. I do think, yeah, that's why you. You gotta do everything.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. And you're so right. They are going to come in with the perfect lie. In addition to just the argument that. And I think this is true. Whether abuse is involved or not. Breaking up is so much work. Especially after a 15 year marriage. It's easy to convince someone like, yes, I did something wrong, but your life will still be worse without me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Whatever that argument is can work. Especially if we're dealing with a vulnerable person who feels dependent on them and doesn't want to be alone. So again, just reiterating your point. Don't let them in the freaking house. Keep them on the porch like they did.

[C]

Pack all their stuff up for them. That's all I had other than she kept saying that it all went pear shaped. And I think that's.

[A]

Yeah, I know. I love that.

[C]

And I think we should bring it to America.

[A]

It went pear shaped. I also just wrote down. I tried to write down a list of all the lies she told because they were so bonkers.

[B]

All right, read it.

[A]

I'm gonna go through them. Well, first she fell out of a plane. Cleaning.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know, girl. I don't know.

[A]

That's all we'll say there.

[C]

Out of the door, like out of the bottom, like, I just can't. I cannot understand what she means by that.

[A]

I kind of love it. I kind of. I mean, it's just, I've never. I haven't heard a. I haven't heard it before. We'll say that. Said she was on vacations with her friends and then she told Frank that Christie's dad was her brother.

[C]

That is insane. That's so crazy. And. And the way that she. She wanted them to meet. She was getting off on them meeting and not knowing that they both were. She wanted that. And that is diabolical.

[A]

It's gross. And she needs help.

[C]

Continue.

[A]

She told Roger that Christy's dad was. I. It was like a. I forget if it was a guy or her brother with PTSD who she was taking care of. Then she said she had the autistic grandchild that was cured, which is not, you know, let's just make it clear. Not an illness. A neurodevelopmental difference that doesn't need to be cured.

[C]

I don't know what she was saying. Cured him.

[A]

This fictional grandfather crazy.

[B]

Well, that's the other.

[A]

And like, building a case. This happens in scams all the time. Or you just build a case of sympathy.

[C]

Yes. I think it also.

[A]

Maybe there's some of that.

[C]

I don't know what she would be using that for. Maybe, like, I know what's best with your son because I cured my grandchild's autism.

[A]

I just.

[C]

I can't understand.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's it. I think she was trying to make herself appealing to the father and then also just have authority over his life and his kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She also told him she was a flight attendant. And I wrote down. And this is. I know people will like, I'm a flight attendant or a pilot, and I don't cheat, but it is a good job for if you're a cheater. Like, it's a good.

[C]

It's a good cover story. It's a really good cover story.

[A]

That. And that's why, like, CIA, these. There's, like, a list of jobs that you can be like, oh, I'm traveling. Oh, I can't tell you what I'm doing. And it. It stinks. It stinks.

[C]

It stinks.

[A]

And then she said that Roger had dementia so that no one would believe him.

[C]

That was so sad. Poor. I feel. I feel like Roger really got the short end of the stick here because Frank and Christy's dad gave her a lot of money, but it seems like they were able to get out of it and their lives weren't completely ruined.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Roger had nothing left. He had no money. He seems like he hurt his relationship with his child.

[A]

It sounded a lot like the Decades of Deception episode where when he got out, it was like pennies in his bank account.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that is just. And the same thing of not being aware of technology as well and banking online. Like, it's. So. I hope I'm still thinking about that father, too.

[C]

And he also had to be in a domestic violence situation.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'm checking my bias on the fact that I didn't even really remember that. Send us your emails if you have a story involving A parent. If you related to this in any way and want to share something with our guest, Christy, we love to share with them. When you guys send support.

[B]

Support.

[A]

If you have a story that is smaller. Any stories. Since you're here, this is a good time to update people on the reminders of how to submit.

[C]

Well, I mean, yeah, send your emails. Put something in the. Don't just email and be like, I have a dog whose story. Message me if you want more information. Because we just don't. It's that just. Yeah, just. Just give us. Give us the highlights. But what I really want to say is I'm looking for some specific stories. So if you are somebody who has been in a dogfish situation with somebody in AA or na, I've heard that there is some abuse that can happen in those spaces because dogfish know that there are very vulnerable people there. So I'm looking for a story about that. So if you have been in a situation like that, write in, please. And I also, if you might remember the Elvis episode. We're also looking for more niche community dogfish stories. Like maybe if you're in like an anime community dogfish. I don't know.

[A]

I honestly.

[C]

Swing dancing. I don't know. Like just anything. Any niche community that you're in. Because that Elvis story really showed us how these dogfish can function in these niche communities.

[A]

Prey on what they learn about you. This happens in all of the ways, but it's like very. When it's very specific, it's. There's a lot of universality and specificity.

[C]

Yes, yes, absolutely. So if you have a story that would fit either of those, send them in. Any story, send them in. But those are just the things I'm.

[B]

Looking for right now, so.

[A]

And another reminder, as you probably know, we anonymize everything. We work with a legal team to protect you, to protect us. And we've changed voices before.

[C]

We can.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If you are in a particularly dangerous situation, we can anonymize a lot. And also you can reach out. I can talk to you about our anonymization process. And if you feel like it's still too dangerous, you. If you email the dust, you can. That does not pull out at any time. You can pull out it literally anytime. So, yeah, that's. That's it. So email us. Investigate the Dating Detectives podcast.

[A]

Nailed it. Tell us other thoughts on this story on Christy, on her family, on Piper. We love Piper. I would love to talk to Piper too. I know Piper event, but, oh, also shout out to Christy's friend who recommended the podcast to her and the whole community of people who are invested in Christie's family. And they're.

[B]

They.

[A]

They've got a village there that are like, they sound like us. Where they're like, yeah, we're in the. Into the drama, but also with the best of intentions. Yes, absolutely. And that's the kind of friends I love.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah. Keep spreading the word of dating detectives around Australia so that we can come and do a live show there, because we want to go to Australia.

[A]

Love you guys so much. And, Molly, thank you for subbing in and co hosting with me. You are the best. We love you so much.

[C]

Mackenzie will be back next week, and until then.

[A]

Trust your femtuition. It's fun, isn't it?

[B]

It's so nice. Sat.