The HR Nightmare: Part 1

Summary

The Dating Detectives – "The HR Nightmare: Part 1" (Feb 16, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this gripping first installment of a two-part saga, hosts Mackenzie Fultz (professional PI) and Hanna Anderson (comedian) welcome guest "Kayla" to recount her harrowing, twist-filled experience with a duplicitous boss-turned-lover in her HR career. The episode’s core theme investigates workplace manipulation, red flags in relationships (romantic and professional), and the trauma and fallout from being gaslit and deceived by someone in authority. The emotional narrative draws on themes of isolation, mental health, and the importance of community, particularly for those navigating LGBTQ+ identity and workplace dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Unusual “Dogfish” Story Begins

• Kayla is introduced as a rare female “dogfish” case (i.e., a conning, manipulative woman in dating).
• She moved to North Carolina straight out of college (mid-2019), took a job as an HR assistant, and was mentored by Martin and directed by Erin (her soon-to-be boss and the central figure of the story).
• Initial tension with Erin: She did not want to hire Kayla, ignored her at work, and only softened after Kayla earned a promotion.

2. Work Relationships Get Personal

• Erin’s life is publicly turbulent at work: divorce, mother’s death, cheating husband.
• As Kayla's professional star rises, so does Erin’s attention and (eventually) her desire to keep Kayla on the team, matching an outside job offer to retain her.
• Erin begins to build a friendship with Kayla, treating her as a peer rather than the “kid” she initially dismissed.

Quote:
"She starts to stop seeing me as a stupid kid. And now she's starting to see me as actually a professional adult that knew what she was doing."
— Kayla [08:47]

3. The Blurring of Professional and Personal Boundaries

• Erin is 17 years Kayla’s senior. They bond over workplace gripes, personal struggles, and share more frequent, informal contact.
• Erin becomes a confidante, offering personal advice on Kayla’s failing relationship.
• “Casual” work friendship morphs as Erin begins texting and calling Kayla “babe”—which at first seems platonic, given office culture, but soon crosses lines.

Quote:
"If you're working in HR at a company, who do you go to if somebody is...?"
— Mackenzie [13:42]

4. First Romantic Encounter and Immediate Consequences

• During a drunken post-work event (Dec 2022), Erin comes onto Kayla, culminating in a sexual encounter in the parking lot—initiated by Erin, initially resisted by Kayla.
• Kayla is wracked with regret and offers to quit; Erin insists on sweeping it under the rug:
  "You're not quitting. We're adults. This is fine. We're just going to move past this."[17:19]
• Internal struggles spike for Kayla: Did her promotions come from merit or attraction? She feels isolated, unable to confide in anyone.

5. Secret Affair and the Escalating Web of Lies

• Despite agreeing it was a one-time event, Erin later pushes for resuming their fling, leading to periodic hook-ups while continuing to work together.
• Erin regularly supplies elaborate excuses for cancelled plans—often involving sudden deaths, family tragedies, or oddly timed emergencies (e.g., bunny funerals, hospitalizations, and Orthodox Jewish customs).

Memorable moment:
Kayla recounts Erin’s astonishing excuse for missing a dinner: “I have to pick out the underwear for my sister’s husband’s mother for her burial.” This detail left the hosts stunned:
"That is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard on this show."
— Hanna [54:42]

6. Signs of Manipulation & Gaslighting

• Erin insists on secrecy (“I’ll lose my job”), never introduces Kayla to her kids, and constantly shifts responsibility and blame, eventually flipping the script and accusing Kayla of “ruining her life” when rumors about their relationship spread.
• Multiple fabricated tragedies—overdosed children, deaths, legal battles, and suspicious financial woes—arise in tandem with requests for forgiveness, secrecy, or money.

7. The Financial Hook: Loaning Money

• At Erin’s request (after a fabricated tax issue), Kayla ultimately loans her $10,000 with no repayment in sight.
• This coincides with intensified emotional manipulation: Picking fights, breaking up days before Kayla’s birthday (right after the loan), and gaslighting about her role as a “secret.”

8. The Slow Realization and Self-Investigation

• Kayla details her growing unease and PI-style research—trying to verify obituaries and suspicious alibis, only to be stonewalled with new lies about customs or non-existent family.
• Erin never brings her phone when visiting Kayla, leaves digital trails intentionally ambiguous, and keeps Kayla isolated from mutual friends and family.

Quote:
"Any time she comes over, she doesn’t have her phone... a woman whose phone is glued to her hand."
— Kayla [58:44]

9. The Emotional Toll and Growing Isolation

• Kayla moves closer to Erin, losing her support network. Erin manipulates Kayla’s guilt over confiding in her ex’s family, further deepening isolation and dependency.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Erin’s manipulation tactics:
  "She would always tell me that we were twin flames and that we were soulmates… I’m positive they’re from Reddit at this point, but she wrote me multiple poems."
  — Kayla [32:58]

• On Kayla’s gradual suspicion:
  "It was a little bit of a red flag. I would say it was like a pink flag almost. Maybe orange, yellow... tie dye. I was just kind of approaching with caution."
  — Kayla [42:43]

• On workplace reporting in HR:
  "If you’re working in HR at a company, who do you go to if somebody is…?”
  — Mackenzie [13:42]

• On the pattern of deaths and tragedies:
  "Just start tallying up the deaths. Because if you notice, we’re at 2 now. I was gonna say, at some point I would be like, Kayla, you’re my bad luck truck. Every time we make plans to hang out, someone dies or a pet dies..."
  — Hanna [55:04]

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Highlights | |-----------|-------------------| | 03:27 | Kayla introduces her story (moving for work, meeting Erin/Martin) | | 06:50 | Turning point: Erin keeps Kayla by matching new job offer | | 13:30 | First signs of personal boundary issues (calling “babe”, texting after hours) | | 16:03 | The night of the first hookup, Kayla’s initial resistance and aftermath | | 20:49 | Affair resumes—Erin’s coded texts, recruiting Kayla for a “fling” | | 23:21 | The first suspicious “bunny death” story revealed | | 25:03 | Erin’s sudden “hemorrhage” and urgent secrecy about work absence | | 31:59 | Erin lavishly gifts a diamond necklace, professes love on Asheville trip | | 34:48 | Erin ghosts Kayla post-getaway; new elaborate tragedy (daughter overdosing) emerges | | 38:23 | Erin cancels an expensive vacation with another detailed family emergency | | 54:11 | The underwear-for-burial story; detailed yet absurd excuses escalate | | 60:14 | The $10,000 loan and rapid spiraling of the relationship | | 66:24 | Kayla seeks clarity on meeting Erin’s kids, faces chronic stalling | | 67:14 | Cliffhanger: Erin calls, urgently demands Kayla drive 4 hours—episode ends |

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Tone and Language

• Kayla is candid, wounded, but graciously transparent—even laughing at her naivety and the outrageousness of Erin’s lies.
• The hosts remain supportive, validating Kayla and interjecting comic relief without dismissing the gravity of her experience.
• The exchanges are conversational, funny, but deeply empathetic and serious around mental health struggles and abuse.

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is a masterclass in slow-burn, real-world gaslighting and manipulation. As Kayla retells her story, the escalation from workplace boundary crossing to overt financial and emotional exploitation is revealed with mounting dread and gallows humor by the hosts. The “red flag tally” motif perfectly captures the bewildered, retrospective realization that something was always off—and will prime listeners for what’s promised in Part 2: the big reveals and implications for both personal healing and workplace vigilance.

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Takeaways & What’s Next

• Trust your instincts—“trust, but verify” is repeated as a theme.
• The dangers of isolation and secrecy are highlighted; the importance of community is re-affirmed.
• The final segment (from [67:14]) teases a dramatic in-person confrontation for Part 2.

Hosts’ signature send-off:
"As always, trust your fetion, please. Good God, trust it. Please."
— Mackenzie & Hanna [70:18]

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For New Listeners

This summary provides a comprehensive, spoiler-rich recap while preserving the episode’s sense of escalating dread and darkly comic absurdity. The hosts’ warmth and Kayla’s bravery shine throughout, ensuring both catharsis and educational value for anyone navigating complex work or dating dynamics.

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-6-7233 for support.

[B]

Happy dating Detectives.

[C]

Monday.

[A]

Hello, everybody. We have a two parter. I'm getting it out of the way up front, but it's.

[B]

Sorry, not sorry. I'm not sorry anymore for the two parters.

[A]

No, not at all. Because it's such a good story and it's a long story and it's going.

[C]

To, you know, piss you off.

[A]

Piss you off.

[C]

You're going to need the, you're going.

[B]

To need the break, you're going to need the reprieve for a little bit. But it's, it is definitely an interesting story, but it's another one that it. Well, this is a, a female dogfish we have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we don't get many of those. So this is interesting. But this story is incredible nonetheless because it just goes to show you that you're not alone no matter what you're going through.

[A]

I really love Kayla. She was very passionate about sharing her story for that reason. Exactly. She was like, I've listened to a lot of the episodes and I just wanna make sure that people who go through the same kind of mental health struggles that I went through after my dogfish story can hear that they're not alone. So there is mental health stuff that comes up, some suicidal ideation and we talk about that. And it's like very brave of her to share because of how many people have been that low and she's doing better. But what a journey she had to go on to get there. So we'll throw it to Kayla soon. We have Patreon going on, as always. $5 a month if you want some bonus episodes. We also meet and talk about books. We have a book club. We just chat in general with you guys. More on Patreon.

[B]

We're going to meet or sometimes TV club.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. We're going to meet and talk about Tell Me Lies, the TV show. We haven't set a date yet, but we're going to do like a zoom sesh about that.

[B]

Dude. I caught up with it and I'm.

[A]

Like, whoa, are you caught Up. Yeah. Stephen, I want to. Steven, I can't say what I want to do on recording anyway, so join Patreon. And then there's $9 a month if you want all of that, plus all of our episodes without ads. Yeah, no big deal. Any other announcements before we give it to Kayla?

[B]

I don't think so. I just. As always, I really want to thank you guys for being here and supporting our show and. And the more you guys share your stories, the more you're helping other people. Every single episode, we get a message from someone saying, thank you. This resonated with me for one reason or another, and this made me feel like I wasn't alone. And you're just growing this community of people who really just need to feel less alone. So thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you to our Patreoners. We really appreciate. We are so glad to have you here. Kayla, thank you for being here.

[C]

Hey, Kayla.

[A]

Nice to meet you.

[C]

Hi, guys. Thank you for having me.

[B]

We would absolutely love it if you take us on your journey. You have the floor.

[C]

So the whole story starts back at the middle of 2019. I had just moved to North Carolina after finishing college, and I needed to find a job in my area. So as I moved down, I got an interview with a really great company. The guy that interviewed me, his name was Martin. And when I got hired, there was a director above him. Her name was Aaron, and didn't really have a lot of interaction with her. After I ended up getting hired for this job, I found out she actually did not want to hire me, and it was all Martin. Yes. Oh, okay. I was young. I was right out of college. I had no experience. So I can understand.

[A]

It wasn't personal. It was just like, she wasn't like, I don't like her.

[C]

Yeah, no, it was just like, oh, she's like a kid. Like, why would we hire her kind of thing. But Martin did fight for me, and I ended up loving that job. Still love that company.

[B]

Because he liked you. Yes.

[C]

I like it. Long story short, like I said, she didn't like me. She basically acted like I was invisible. She was not in the same office as us. So a lot of the time, she would just pop in here and there, and when she would pop in, would not pay any attention to me. Acted like I did not exist. Like, to the point she had to cross past my office to get to Martin's office and would just walk by it without saying anything. So it was awkward for a while, but is what it is. I found out that she was actually married with two kids, so kind of made sense. We were in very different life points. I'm just starting my career. She had her career. Didn't really want to be friends with me or whatnot, which is fine.

[A]

You can still say hi.

[C]

I don't know. So, like I said, loved the job. I really did like it. And Aaron and I didn't interact a lot, but Martin and I became the best of friends. And I don't know that it's important or not, but he was gay, and I'm also a lesbian, so we kind of bonded over that. We always called each other, like, the gay hr. So it was like a little. Little union. So after about a year of me working there, Erin goes around, which is my director. She's going around telling everyone she's getting a divorce and that her mom died and her husband cheated on her.

[B]

Oh, bless. They come in threes. Hey, just for, I guess, context, can you share what kind of job this is that you're doing each day?

[C]

I'm an HR assistant. So it's a lot of just hiring people in, going through resumes, a lot of administrative stuff, payroll stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. So for a solid, I'd say six months. She's the Wicked witch of the West. Nobody wants to talk to her. She's going through it, and she's taking it out on everybody. Like, to the point where I was. Like, when she would come, I was so happy she wasn't talking to me. Like, those were the days where I was like, I'm gonna hide under my desk so she doesn't see me.

[A]

My goodness, it was rough.

[C]

She ends up telling all of us on the team that she's selling her house that her husband and her kids had together and she's gonna buy a new house on her own. This is her own thing. She's building it. She's like, I'm gonna be a badass and go support my own kids and do my own thing. So, like, we're all supporting her, rooting her on and everything as her team. Okay.

[A]

We're like, good for you. We. Whatever you say.

[B]

Just stop being a bitch. But it's fine.

[C]

Pretty much that's kind of how we all were. So this is about a year in. I'm actually doing a lot better at work at this point. I'm getting a lot of attention. I'm getting my master's degree. I'm getting pulled in on a lot of different big roles and stuff like that. So, like, really excelling in the company. So I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm getting noticed. And so then Aaron starts to take a notice of me as well. But at this point, I'm not really getting the direction I want. So I go and try to find another job. I get another job offer that was going to double my salary. And then Aaron comes back to me and is like, no, no, no. I want to match it and keep you.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

How the turntables. Exactly. So this is like a huge turning point for mine and hers relationship. At this point. I actually feel like a very valued employee and like, things are going really good. Important to note that I'm also in long term relationship at this point. So life was really good. This is about 20, 21.

[A]

Can you tell me a little more about the long term relationship?

[C]

It was a really good relationship. Like, I know you love love. I don't, but I love that I.

[A]

Will love it for both of us.

[C]

You can love it all you want. I will say that she was the most wonderful person. We owned a home together. I am still very close with her family. Her two nieces and nephews are my godkids. And I love them to death. Still see them and everything. I will say she is someone's person, but she wasn't my person and I realized that. But like I said, I can't say enough great things about her and everything that happened. I'm like, we actually split very amicably. We moved down, actually to North Carolina together from a different state. I will say moving and going through a lot of that with your partner, it can be. It can put a strain on the relationship. Especially when you guys are. When you're the only two, like in an area and you don't have friends or anything, you end up becoming. It almost becomes toxic at a point. Like you become each other's best friends, roommates and everything. And it's just. It gets toxic. So, yeah, like I said, I was in a good relationship. Things are going well. I get this promotion at work, I double my salary, we own a house. So this is like super important to us. We're like, okay, great. We can make updates and stuff. But then I also find out that Erin, she's in these great moods again. And it's because she now has a boyfriend named Blake. So much so that she's like taking him to work events, he's going to work dinners, he goes to their Christmas party with her. Like, she's bringing this guy around. This is going to be her next man. And we're like, good for you. You're no longer an asshole anymore to all of us. So yay. Okay. Works for me. Don't really care. Her and I are really connecting, though, like, on a personal level. Like, she's adding a lot more to my plate, but also trying to build a friendship with me and starts to stop seeing me as a stupid kid. And now she's starting to see me as, like, actually a professional adult that knew what she was doing.

[B]

How old is she? Is she much older than you, or.

[C]

What was the issue? She's 17 years older than me. I was intimidated by her because she was just super smart, and I wanted to learn from her. So she starts seeing, like, she's telling us relationship lows. Oh, he did this stupid thing. And we all start sharing different things. This is probably, like, end of 21 into 2022, and I'm sharing things. Like, I'm starting to have doubts in my relationship. Me and my partner are fighting a lot. We had bought the house. We're doing a lot of projects. And I'll tell you, like, if you do not do a house project, it does not test your relationship, like having to live in construction. So we were at each other's throats at a certain point, and it just, like I said, it got very toxic. And so I'm starting to express this to my colleagues and friends, just telling them what's going on. And a lot of them are just like, you're so young. You shouldn't be this miserable or you shouldn't be this unhappy. And I'm like, well, it's not even that I'm someone that, like, once I commit to something, I'm in it. So I was really trying to make it work. And regardless of all the fights and stuff, like, I was really trying to make it work. So there is, like, a point where we're all on a little business trip together, and Martin and her best friend actually worked with us. Her name is Paige. Martin and Paige had to go to the bathroom while we were all at this work dinner. They both went to the bathroom at the same time. And it left me and Aaron at the table together. And Erin leaned over and put her hand on my knee and was like, I'm just gonna tell you that you are too young to be this unhappy in your relationship and that you really should consider other options getting out of the relationship. And at the time, I'll be honest with you, I thought it was just like a friend being a friend, like, saying, hey, I see that you're not happy. You're young. You shouldn't be this unhappy.

[A]

Like a mentor.

[C]

Yeah. And that's how I looked at her at this point, was just a mentor. Nothing really else. Like, she was pretty, but it was my boss.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

So after that, we were really getting closer, and she starts casually calling me babe in the office. She's texting me outside of work.

[B]

She's in hr and she's texting you and calling you. This is wild.

[A]

Oh, I think it's important too, because it's like, if you are working in HR at a company, who do you go to if somebody is.

[C]

If you're in HR already?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was not saying no. I want to be very transparent. I was not, like, denying, like, that she was calling me babe. Like her and her best friend called each other babe.

[B]

I called my girlfriend's friend, hey, babe, how are you? Even in a workplace?

[A]

I don't think I think about it, and probably maybe we should, but. Okay, good.

[C]

Yeah, I would agree with you. Maybe you should, but maybe this will be a cautionary tale. So she's texting me all the time, sending me pictures like, she got her hair done. She sends me a picture, and she's like, do you like it? And stuff like that. That. And I'm like, oh, yeah, you look gorgeous. I thought we were really just becoming girlfriends. Like kind of someone that you grab a drink with after work. Yes, you may be my boss, but we're just friends. That's really what I thought it was. Yeah. So we start traveling a lot, and I am at the point where me and my current girlfriend are at our end. I'm like, this has got to. I gotta stop this. So I'm starting to pull back the life that we have intertwined. And telling her, like, I don't think this is gonna work. So we split up. Well, me and Aaron go to dinner together at one point, and Aaron opens up to me about her abusive. Because she was married one time before then she had her most recent ex Husband. And we kind of trauma bond a little bit. Like, she tells me some stuff that she's went through, I tell her some stuff that I went through. And at that point we're like really close. We're texting every weekend after that. So I split up with my ex at this point. And this is probably December of 2022. Aaron and I go out to dinner again for a work event, and she gets absolutely, completely drunk. So drunk that I take her keys from her. And I'm like, you're not driving home. Like, I'm either getting you an Uber or a taxi or something. I even have the bartenders at this restaurant coming up to me saying, do I need to get her a taxi? And I'm like, no, no, I'll get her home. I'll make sure she's okay. I had not drank that much, and at this point, I was new to drinking. So, like, I knew not to. Not to go crazy. So nonetheless, I'm holding her keys away from her. No, we need to get you home. I call her best friend Paige, and I'm like, what do I do? Clearly this is not first time situation. Can someone come pick her up? Because she's refusing to tell me where she lives or anything. It becomes this very dramatic situation. But one thing leads to another and I'm holding the keys away from her and she comes onto me in the parking lot. She's a lot shorter than me, so I'm like holding her keys literally over her head at a certain point and she comes and grabs up on me and is like all over me to the point where I had a button up shirt. She's pulling the buttons off. Like it's. Oh, wow.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Well, Kayla, I denied it for, I would say it was probably a good two or three minutes where I was like, no, no, no, we can't do this. Like, stop, stop. Like trying to push her off and everything. And then one thing leads to another and I give in and we end up sleeping together that night.

[A]

Was this something that you expected could happen? Had there been vibes at all?

[C]

There had been vibes, but I didn't think it was ever gonna go to that point. Because I will tell you, we're both very professional. We're hr, so, like, yeah, yeah, you don't usually do those things. Usually we're writing people up for doing those things, if not firing them. Never in my world of this could possibly happen. And then it did. Immediate regret afterwards. Like, I'm driving her back to her car and we're both like, what did we just do? And I jump up and I'm like, I'm going to quit. I'm going to give you my resignation tomorrow. This is too messy, this is too complicated. We're done. She had been at the company much longer than me, had built the department and everything. So to me I was like, I still have so much time to go build this for myself. I knew that was never going to be my long term company. So to me it was like, I can go find something, it'll be a lot easier for me. And at this point I'm thinking, she has two kids, she's supporting on her own, she just got a new mortgage, just built a house. I didn't want that pressure on her. So I'm like, don't even worry about it. I'm just gonna step away, we'll pretend this never happened and that's that.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Just gimme a good reference, that's all I was asking.

[A]

Yeah, no kidding. So how long after your breakup did this happen?

[C]

It was probably weeks. Like it was very soon after. Not something I'm proud of, but it was very quickly after.

[B]

There's no judgment either way.

[A]

No judgment.

[B]

It's nice to know the timeline, but.

[A]

I think that factors in. I mean, I think.

[C]

And it speaks to where you were.

[B]

Maybe in your mindset.

[C]

Oh, absolutely. Like I can tell you I hate that I did it at the time that I did, because again, it was so soon after. But I was not prepared for anything serious. I was like, okay, this is what it is. And like I said, I didn't have anyone to support other than myself, so I wasn't really worried about anything. And we owned a house. So just mindset wise, I was like, if I quit, I have money coming in from the house, I have some savings, I'll be fine. So the next day I go into the office and she comes in late. She pulls me in and she's like, hey, you're not quitting. And I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like, you're not quitting. We're adults. This is fine. We're just going to move past this. And I'm like, are you sure? Rule number one, if this gets awkward for either of us, we can't do it or whatnot, you just need to say the word. And I'm out. And she was like, no, no, no, we're adults. It was a big mistake. It'll never happen again. And I'm like, okay. I'm going through the process of selling my House. She's then telling me that her and Blake break up and that's.

[A]

Oh, right. I totally forgot she had a boyfriend. So she was cheating on her boyfriend too.

[C]

Correct. So she says because of this that they break up. And I'm like, oh, wow, I'm so sorry. And she's like, no. Like, it was coming anyways. Like, it is what it is. And I'm like, wow. I'm, you know, just trying to be compassionate and still be a friend to her and just move past this. Be a professional friend to her.

[A]

So was there any part of her that was uncomfortable with the fact that she's your boss and came onto you that she had gotten that drunk? Did she make you feel like anybody that you had done something wrong? It's interesting to me that she had no, like, apology or guilt or anything.

[C]

She had none. Like, if anything, she made me feel bad about it, especially afterwards. There were a few times where we would have conversations and I told her I was struggling at one point because she had just promoted me like a year before that. And I was like, did you just promote me because you thought I was cute or something? I was starting to struggle really badly internally with it. And then after this, she promotes me again. So I really start freaking out. Especially, like, I have my masters. Like, I am a very well educated person and I'm very much self made. My parents didn't put me through college. Like, I have paid and done everything on my own. So when this is all happening, I am having internal struggles galore. Can't even process what's happening.

[A]

Yeah. And talk to anybody about it.

[C]

No, because it was like this one time thing that happened and so I was like, oh, and it's a secret. Exactly. I'm like, who am I going to tell? And I wasn't super close with family or my mom or anything at this point. So it was something I dealt with just internally. And it wasn't fun, I'll be honest.

[A]

Really hard.

[C]

So that happens. We do have to see each other for work events quite a few more times after that. And it's very casual. We don't even go out to dinner afterwards. But then about a month and a half later, she reaches out and we had another event that was out of town and she was asking me what kind of candy? Because, like, we did hiring events, and with hiring events, you put a bowl of candy out front. It's just like a thing that you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she was like, what kind of candy do you want me to get? And I was like, I don't care what kind of candy you get. She goes, what do you want? And I'm like, I told you, I don't care. Like, I. And I kid you not, probably asked me four or five times, what do I want? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I told you I don't care what you get. Just grab it and I'm going to be miserable there. Anyways. And so we were on a company messaging app at this point. She then pulls it off of company messaging and texts me and says, what do you want? And I'm like, what are you talking about? What do you want? I'm genuinely confused.

[B]

No.

[C]

And she's like, I want to do what we did again. And I was like, wait, what? So I'm, like, completely thrown off for a minute. And she's like, I'm going to call you on my way back from work. So she calls me that night, and we're just chatting, and she's like, it was a good time. I don't know, maybe we could just have this as, like, a fling. I've thought about it a lot, and we're flirting in the office still bit here and there. Like, clearly you're not opposed to it. So what are your thoughts? And I'm like, I'm single. As long as it doesn't get messy, I'm fine with it. I'm thinking it's really just gonna be a fling. Again, not my best judgment. I was in my early 20s.

[A]

How'd she experience in the past with.

[C]

She said she had. But then the more, like, I got to know her, I would say no. I think I was a phase for her. I honestly think I was. Midlife crisis, looking back on it.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yes. That's what I'm thinking, is that it sounds to me like she was using you a little bit to have fun or whatever. I don't know which.

[C]

At that point, I'll be honest, if that's all it would have been and I wasn't on here telling her dogfish story, I would have been fine with it. Because at this point, I'll be transparent. I was just looking for a fling. I was like, you know what? This will be fun. And honestly, I was, like, sitting there, I'm like, oh, my God. People fantasize about this all the time. Like, I was like, let me go ahead and get a fantasy out. Kick this, you know, boss.

[A]

Yes, totally.

[C]

At the end of the day, like, not my most responsible way of handling things, but it was What? It was.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

One last question. Again, not no judgment at all, but what was the policy, like, so this was, I assume, not allowed.

[C]

No.

[A]

Were you able to, like, if you disclosed a relationship, it was okay, or.

[C]

Like, what are we disclosing to?

[A]

That's a great point, Kayla. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You guys are in HR and she's the boss.

[C]

I'll just say that even if we would have disclosed, she would have lost her job or I would have had to be resigned because we were in the same department and she was my direct report. So there was no fixing any of this.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, it was messy. So we meet up after and we hook up again, and fast forward, she's like, okay, I need to go home and cook for my kids, and then I'll come back and we can go to dinner. And I'm like, oh, okay. So we're actually trying to hang out after this and stuff too. Okay, cool. So I get a text, like, about three hours later, and she's like, oh, my kid's bunny died. So my kid's bunny. Aw. She's like, my kid's bunny died, so I'm not gonna be able to make it. And I'm like, oh, no, no. She's like, they're devastated. I'm so sorry. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's okay. I'm super understanding. I' I can entertain myself. Don't worry about it. So I didn't think much of it. But then about three weeks later, when I'm at the other office, she tells her best friend Paige that that's when her daughter's bunny died. So this is like a three week period. So I'm like, again, didn't think much of it, but I was just like, okay, that's weird. And, like, brush it off. Yeah.

[B]

So this is just an excuse that she keeps using again and again or something.

[C]

She used it for something else for someone else at this point.

[A]

And you found out. Interesting.

[C]

Yeah. And again, it wasn't really a red flag. It was just like, okay, maybe they had multiple bunnies. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Like your other grandma died too. Just wait. Oh, God. Okay, so we're in 2023 now. We're very much like a little phase. She's based out of Charlotte and I'm in Raleigh. We were four hours away from each other, and we're just meeting and hooking up on work trips. I have to travel a lot for this new position she had promoted me into. And work's kind of chaotic. Martin, when I left and she promoted me into, like, a broader. He starts acting a fool in his current role and basically is getting himself fired. I'm removed from the situation, but Aaron's asking me to oversee what's happening with Martin and his new co worker and everything that's going on there. And I'm helping, but I'm more so just like eyes and ears. I have no authority over them. I'm just helping give an unbiased opinion when I'm in the office.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So like I said, kind of exists in fragments. We do hang out when we're together. If not, it's fine, but we're texting all the time, calling each other on our ways to and from work kind of thing. Sometimes it's about work and sometimes it's not. I will say we did a very good job, like, trying to keep things separate. I'll give us that credit. For the most part, for the few months that we did this, we did okay. But nobody in the office knows. Again, she's straight. And I was out at work, so everyone knew I was a lesbian. So I make plans to actually go down there for a training event, and me and her are supposed to hang out while I'm there. And I was in town for, I think, two or three days. And right as I get into town that night, she was supposed to come see me and she ghosts me for the whole night. I.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

I'm like, what is going on? And I'm annoyed at this point, but I'm like, whatever, I'll go entertain myself again. She's just blowing me off. Well, then the next morning, she texted me and said that on her way home, she had a cyst burst and she hemorrhaged on a very busy highway in the area, and somehow, by the grace of God, had pulled over and was able to get help, called 911 and spent the night in the hospital. And I'm like, oh, my God, where are you? What's going on? Yeah, Like, I'm freaking out for her. And she's like, no, no, no. I don't want anyone to know. Please don't say anything at work. I'm coming into work today. If they know that this happened, I could lose my job. And I'm like, why?

[B]

What?

[C]

What? She's acting like she's going to lose her job. And I can understand it. As a woman in power, you never want to show weakness. And as I was going to say, as someone that is now at that same level, I would agree. But I also think if I hemorrhaged in my car and it was true, I probably would call my boss and say, hey, I'm not going to be in the next day. I don't know.

[A]

That's. I'm literally calling from the hospital. That's not a weakness, that's just a human body.

[C]

Yeah, it was weird, but there was like some stuff going on at work to where they were looking at her a little bit. So I could understand why she didn't want to express that out because I know that at that point there were conversations of is she going to stay? And I think she always felt like she was on the chopping block. So knowing the political climate at work and then her saying that and that she didn't want to let anyone know, I understood it like it made sense looking back. Not necessarily 100%, but it made sense at that moment.

[B]

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[A]

Mackenzie. We've talked about this before. It's been very hard to find bras and underwear that fit perfectly and feel comfortable. And now I live in my skims.

[B]

I love skin. I. I'm absolutely converted as someone who used to weigh 300 pounds and never lost 175 pounds. And my body is constantly changing. It's a little bit softer now and I'm, you know, getting older and I've always struggled to, to find bras and panties, but the skims underwear have been amazing. The bras are amazing. I love that it's. There's something for everybody.

[A]

And I love, yeah everybody. The color range, the size range. I think it's sad that more brands are not as inclusive as a brand like this. And I do commend skims for being that way. And I know a lot of people who have shared that struggle and trying skims, not only do they fit comfortably, they literally have a range called the fits everybody line, which is what I mostly wear.

[B]

But there's actually comfortable, you guys, it's actually comfortable. My favorite thing I think is they have a bra that's like, because after you have kids and you breastfeed, your breasts change shape and so sometimes it's a little bit harder to feel sexy. And so they actually have a bra that is kind of like a sports bra where it's like, imagine like a, a crop tank top in the back, but in the front it has underwire so it gives you that nice balcony lift. It is so comfortable. Covers the back fat. It fits like a sports bra, but it gives you the support that you need. And it's amazing. It's my favorite thing. My mom wears them now. I love them. They come in all the basic colors that you could need. And it's my favorite thing ever.

[A]

You definitely go check out skims.

[B]

Shop our favorite bras and [e-mail] after.

[C]

You place your order, be sure to.

[B]

Let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. So just find the dating detectives.

[C]

So this is going on for a few months and we're probably six months in and we're like, are we going to continue to do this? She's telling me how much she cares about me. She loves me. She's calling me after work every day, literally. She loves you.

[A]

She's saying she loves you.

[C]

She's telling me she's catching feelings that's.

[A]

Not a fling anymore. Oh, no.

[C]

Correct. And I'll be honest. I was catching feelings, too, but I was like, okay, we need to figure out what this is. Is this more than a fling? We've never spent more than a night or two together, and it's always based around something that has to do with work. Do we want to see what this could be? And I was like, let's do it. So we take a trip to Asheville, get a nice hotel, and we spend three days, four nights there. So while we're in Asheville, we are having the time of our lives. I kid you not. It was probably one of the best trips I've ever had. We went to dinner, and she wasn't afraid to show me off in public. We were holding hands. We're having a great time all out in public, just doing a lot of couple things. It was a really good time. At the very end of it, we have this conference conversation, and I'm like, what are you thinking? And she's like, honestly, I want to see where this goes. I'm in love with you, and I really want to see where this goes. And I'm like, okay, I love you, too. Let's see where this goes. I should also mention she was giving me a lot of gifts, like, expensive gifts at this hotel. She gives me this very nice diamond necklace. Yeah. So it's the center of her world, is what it's called. It's from Kay Jewelers. So it was very sentimental. And I was like, oh, you're trying to make a statement here. I'm a deep person. Words of affirmation is my love language. So she's, like, giving me all this attention. She's telling me how much she loves me, that how smart I am is what attracted her to me. She's even telling me a lot about her kids to a point where I felt like I knew her kids. She also provides for her father. She was like a goddess to me at this point. Like, I genuinely thought she was just the best thing in the world.

[B]

Did you think she was pretty or just hot or did you get to like her over time or what?

[C]

So when I first met her, I thought she was pretty, but I was not super attracted to her. It was around like.

[A]

Yeah, because she was like the ice queen.

[C]

She was. But that's definitely my type. I love the unavailable.

[A]

I get it. Well, that's the thing. I was thinking about how when you first met her, she didn't admire your intelligence, nor even admire your voice or presence in general. So I imagine that was an insecurity going into this relationship.

[C]

I think that's part of why I wanted her attention so bad. I really just wanted her to like me. And then it was like, once she liked me, I also liked her, but I really liked her personality. We had a lot of similarities. We both grew up in some rougher environments, very poor. She had mentioned that she was self made, so we were able to connect on that level. And I admired that. She was like at this point, a single mom and just being a bad bitch. She was telling me how she very much had worked two or three jobs to help with her kids. And I'm like, I can relate to that. It wasn't my kids, but I did a lot for my little brother growing up, and we connected on those levels. And like I said, she was just very attentive when we were together. It felt like nothing else mattered. She literally made me feel so good about myself and it was something I hadn't felt before. And she was super supportive too. Anything I wanted to do, she would literally be like, no, you can do it. How can I help support you through it? And I think that's why I fell for her as quickly and as hard as I did. Some of the things she would say were super deep. I just listened to an episode where you guys were talking about this, but she would always tell me that we were twin flames.

[B]

I remember that episode.

[C]

Yeah. So she would always say that we were twin flames and that we were soulmates. And we'd always bring in spiritual stuff and say that we were two souls intertwined. And I love poetry and stuff. So she would send me poems that she would find and whatnot. She wrote me multiple poems. I'm positive they're from Reddit at this point, but she wrote me. Did it.

[B]

When she wrote them to you, did it feel very love bomb y? It feel sweet?

[C]

It felt sweet. I remember the first time she sent me this song called Oceans by Carol G. And it's like, if we had to part ways, I'd still love you. Always like that kind of vibe. I remember when she sent me that, I very much was like, okay, that's a little too much too soon.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But then shortly after that, it became our song and I very much bought into the whole thing and I really caught feelings. When I'm in, I'm all in. When I'm out, I'm all out. So I was 100%. That's me too.

[B]

I get that.

[C]

And I had never been pursued the way she was Pursuing me. So I am sitting here like. Like, oh, my God, somebody likes me this much. I was head over heels. I was.

[B]

Well, it sounds like she did exactly what you needed her to do to show that.

[C]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Make you feel the way you wanted to feel.

[C]

Absolutely. As we're leaving Asheville and everything, she knew I was getting all this money from this house selling and everything. We're like, oh, we need to start solidifying our love. We wanted to go on vacation together and, like, all these really cool things. I won't even show you. I was fully in love, and I was ready to settle down and call it a day. I say, I'm gonna get a new job. Part of it because her and I are gonna progress our relationship. And then the other part was I needed to prove to myself that I could make it outside of that company and outside of her purview.

[B]

Because you wanted to feel like you earned it.

[C]

Exactly. The only way I'm ever gonna feel that is if I get another job. And if I can exceed and go above expectations there, too, I'll know it had nothing to do with her. So as we're leaving Asheville, she's texting me. And then at a certain point, communication drops. Props. She ghosts me. So we leave Asheville on the Saturday morning. I don't hear from her until Monday morning on my way to work.

[B]

Wait, what? And this was the longest you had ever gone without that, right?

[C]

Longest we had ever gone without talking. And then it was right after we, like, confessed our love for each other, saying that we wanted this to be something real.

[A]

So how are you? What is going through your head?

[C]

Oh, I was devastated. So I'm sitting there trying to logically think about. Okay, so if this is really what it is, maybe it's because she's struggling with her own feelings. She's just coming out of two relationships that failed. She has kids. Maybe she's second guessing everything. Sometimes when I get too emotionally overwhelmed, I also shut down. Maybe she needed time to herself. I don't know. So I get a text that morning, and she's like, hey, I'm sorry that I disappeared, but my youngest went to a cheerleading banquet and overdosed with all of her friends. Oh, no. And I'm like, wait, what? And so I'm like, is she okay? And she's fine. She had her stomach pumped. She's suspended from school for the week. Her ex husband's now yelling at her, saying it's all her fault. And I'm like, I am so sorry. How can I Support you. Do you want me to take off today and I'll come over? And she's like, no, you can't take off. I need you to handle what's happening there so that I can handle my at home life. And I'm like, okay, okay. I just feel horrible. So then I let her be for that week and I give her a full pass. I'm like, we don't even talk about the fact of what happened. It's just, this is what it is. So fast forward, things are going okay and then I get a new job very quickly after doubled my salary again. So that was exciting. Loved the company. I proved to myself that I could do it without her, which was awesome. So I excelled very quickly there.

[A]

Was she supportive and excited for you?

[C]

She was supportive, but there would always be sidehanded comments like, Well, I made VP before I was 30 and I did this before I was 30.

[A]

And I was like, okay, that's important to note.

[C]

And it was playful the way she would do it. I'm a competitive person. So when she would say that, it's like, I still have some years to go because I was 26 at this point. And I'm like, I still have four years. We'll see what happens in four years. So it was okay. Everything was good with me and her. We're super serious at this point. And we had talked about doing a big vacation. She knew I was getting the house money because I had sold my house with my ex. And she's like, I really want to go on an all inclusive, just us vacation. So she's like, we'll pay 50, 50. And I'm like, okay. So she sends me a list of places she's always wanted to get go. And so I pick one and we agreed to it. And she's like, you book it and I'll pay back. So I booked it and then after about a few weeks, I was like, don't worry about it. I just got all this money. It's for us. Let's go and have a good time. So.

[A]

And you're kind of at the headspace now of we're a partnership. What's mine is yours.

[C]

And that's where a lot of the next multiple mistakes that I made come from, because I am actually very much there. I am like, we are a partnership. I am trying to grow for our future. This is for us, us being together and us really building something. And not only that, like, I'm thinking, okay, I know what she makes at this point. She's only Making a little bit more than I am. So I'm like, she's supporting two kids and a dad. I'm just supporting me. I was rolling in money while I feel like she's struggling. So I was like, no, no, no, I got it. So I buy the vacation and we book it for. It was like two months later. And so two months goes by and we've seen each other here and there, but it's very brief. I travel all over now with my new job so we still can see each other when we're out of town. But I can't plan it to be at the same place that she is and us get away with it. That makes sense. It just has to be coincidence. Or I say, hey, I'm going to be here. If you want to also plan your work trip around this location too. So when it comes up to the time of the vacation, she's like, I can't go. And I'm like, what do you mean you can't go? I'm like, and by the way, this is a four or $5,000 vacation. It's all inclusive. Like, drinks, food, everything included.

[A]

Did she have another bunny emergency?

[C]

She says her dad broke his wrist or his arm. He was trying to get into the shower. He slipped and broke his arm. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's awful. I understand it. Don't worry about it. I'll call the hotel. What are you supposed to do?

[B]

You can't if it just happens. What are you supposed to do?

[C]

You're scared. And I get it. With elderly parents especially, like, things happen. She's like, can you try to see if they'll reschedule it? And I'm like, absolutely. So I call them, and they're like, we have a zero refund policy. Oh, gosh. But I explained that it was a medical emergency, and they're like, okay, not a problem. If you can provide documented proof, we'll reschedule it for you. And I'm like, okay. Oh, no, thank you. So now I'm asking for documented proof. It takes two weeks, but she does send me a letter from a doctor and an X ray.

[B]

I just want to note that Kayla.

[C]

Just did a doctor in air bunny quotes. So I sent it to the hotel, and it worked. So we reschedule for birthday, which was two or three months down the road. So it had been a few weeks from us seeing each other, and I was like, I miss you. I want to spend time with you. At this point, it was becoming a very heavy texting Relationship. And I'm like, this is weird. I have more mobility. I don't have kids and a dad to worry about. Let me come over and take you out to dinner. She's like, absolutely, Come on over. We can go out on Saturday. You can get a room. I'll stay with you that night. I just need it to be close to my house. So I'm like, okay, not a problem. Thank God I didn't book the room in advance because as Friday hit, she's like, I just found. Got word that my long lost sister died up in Pennsylvania. And when she died, I was like, oh, my God. What do you mean? I didn't know you had another sister. And she's like, yeah, we just don't talk about her. She was like, she's Orthodox Jewish, so we have to go up there and do Shiva. And she was going through all these different things that they have to do. And I was like, okay, I don't know much about the Jewish religion, so I'm just respecting it. And she wasn't Jewish, but she said that her lifestyle just didn't match with the Orthodox Jewish community. So she was saying that her and her sister did not get along, and her sister didn't get along with the rest of the family. Because I guess when you're Orthodox Jewish, and this is hearsay, I have not really looked all of this up. She said that you can't wear pants. So when her and her kids would wear pants around them, they would get very upset.

[A]

I know a lot of Orthodox Jews, and they're not mad at me for wearing pants. You know what I mean? Some might be, but yeah, that all of this, it's like, I get it. Like, we don't know. Like, her story very well could be, but. But we don't know.

[B]

You don't know. So she's telling you this and you're like, okay, like that.

[C]

Okay, well, yeah, And I think it's an important part too. When we agreed to be exclusive with each other, we made a commitment to each other that there was no lies, we would never lie to each other, and that there would never be anyone else. She made me promise forward, backwards and in between, that she would never be the other woman because she said that all of her other partners had made her the other woman. And she said she never wanted to be that with me. And I'm like, well, first and foremost, I don't cheat. I've never cheated before in my life. I'm not gonna start now. So I think you're okay. But nonetheless, yep, I promise. And then I made her promise. I'm very big on don't lie to me. I just feel as an adult. Who are you lying to? Why are you lying? The only person you're going to get in trouble with is yourself if you're lying.

[B]

Yeah. Don't lie to me.

[A]

God damn.

[B]

Don't lie to me.

[C]

So literally. So when she's telling me this stuff about her sister and how she's Jewish, I'm thinking, oh, this is 100% real.

[B]

Because why would she lie about something like that?

[C]

I have this thing where, like, trust but verify kind of thing. So this was our. That's literally our quote. That's our tingle.

[B]

We got it on a T shirt.

[C]

I'm gonna have to buy one because I say it all the time. So I start looking for an obituary for the sister that's up in the state. So I knew the city and the state she had flown into. And, like, I knew. I look all around and so I ask if there was an obituary. And she tells me that Orthodox Jewish people do not write obituaries and that they do not publish it in the paper. And I'm like, okay. And again, this is the first time that this has happened. So I'm just accepting, trusting, trying to say, why would she lie about something this serious? Like, why would you lie about this?

[A]

Yeah. Wait, but so your motivation to look for the obituary. Because, like, it easily could just be, oh, I just want to see the obituary. I want to read about her family or your motivation. What was your motivation? Did you think there was something fishy?

[C]

I felt it was fishy. It was just weird that the one weekend I had planned, she had done, like, these little tiny excuses. Nothing this dramatic as to someone dying, but, like, little excuses why I couldn't come over or why I. Yeah, it's.

[A]

Always very conveniently around your trips.

[C]

And that was kind of what my thing was. It was. It's always around the trips. It was a little bit of a red flag. I would say it was like a pink flag almost. Maybe orange, yellow. Like, proceed with caution. I don't know. It was like tie dye. I was just kind of approaching with caution a little bit. She tells me all this stuff, and then when I actually would question things, she would just be like, you don't understand how chaotic my life is. I have two kids that I'm responsible for. I am my family's pillar. So when something goes wrong in my sister's life, I have to be there. If something goes wrong in My kid's life, I have to be there. Even in my ex husband's life, I have to be there.

[A]

And I'm like, so I'm a hero and you're not mature enough to understand is a way to translate that perhaps.

[C]

That is absolutely how it felt. And so I always would feel horrible because I'm like, you're right, I don't understand this. I only have to worry about myself and my little brother, but he's self sufficient at this point. I also am going to throw out that her kids at this point are 17 and 19. So they are older than my little brother. Yes, they are grown ass adults. They are grown ass adults. She's a single mom, so I'm trying to really be understanding. But like I said, she had canceled a lot of stuff up until that point. I'm like, oh, that's weird. And yellow flags. I started to try to be my own PI at a certain point and that was what I started with.

[B]

So you gotta start somewhere. Good for you. I'm proud of you, Kayla.

[C]

You'll be really proud at the end, I promise. Ooh.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

I'm just trying to keep the peace at a certain point. So I stopped questioning a lot of it and I'm just like, I need to accept it. She's clearly a busy person now that we're really serious. And like I had mentioned, I'm still very close with my ex's family. I start to confide in my ex's sister, who was my best friend the entire time I was still babysitting the kids. I'm over there hanging out with the kids. I spent Christmas and Thanksgiving with them even after we separated. So I'm hanging out with her sister. She's like, you're really bubbly and stuff lately. What's going on? Who are you seeing? You're seeing someone. Like, very much girl talk. And I'm like, like, I am. And yes, I'm really happy and stuff like that. And so finally I confess to her what's going on and I tell her, you know who it is, and she's guessing that it's our hairdresser and all this other stuff. And like, it's Aaron, my old boss. And she's just shocked. And she's like, yeah, when? And I'm like, it started, like, probably a few months after me and your sister broke up, but then technically I slept with her really close to the breakup, and I'm sorry for that. But as a best friend, she's super supportive, super happy, but she's also grown ass adult though, also. Well, yeah, I will just say, I'm sure it pulled on her a little bit because it's her sister. So she ends up telling her sister. And at this point, me and my ex are still very cordial with each other, like to the point, like, if she needed something, I would help her with it. Or if I needed something, she would help me with it. We were friends. So long story short, my ex goes on a rampage with me. Like I said, she had a community of gay friends, so she's going out. And again, Martin's important in the story because Martin is also gay and in the gay community. She goes out to a gay bar, sees Martin at 2am they're both drunk and hammered. And she goes and tells Martin that I am sleeping with Aaron.

[A]

And he's like, oh, my God, this is tea.

[C]

Oh, yes. He was like, this is tea. So he was really good friends with Paige, which is Aaron's good friend. He contacts Paige and tells Paige everything. He's also still got friends in the company, so he's telling everybody. Oh, no. Yeah. So I wake up the next morning having no idea that this happened. It's a Monday morning and Erin goes into work and her best friend Paige brings her into the office and is like, I have to tell you this. I'm hearing all this secondhand, so take it with a grain of salt. But I find out that she gets pulled into Paige's office and Paige is like, are you sleeping with her? What's going on? And I don't know what happened outside of that, other than I was told by Aaron that the whole company knew. So much so that her. Her boss knew, the CEO knew, the president knew, and all this stuff. Meanwhile, I hear nothing. No one's telling me they heard anything. Nobody's telling me any bit of it. And I still have a lot of friends in the company. So I'm like, this is kind of weird that she's saying that it's blowing up. But not a single person has reached out to me to connect with me to see if it's true.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

So I was just kind of. I was like, whatever though, believing her. But she freaks out on me. She's like, you've ruined my life. We're over. I can't believe you would do this. She's.

[A]

Oh my.

[C]

This huge dramatic thing and she's telling me that her ex. Ex boyfriend, Blake found out and that he called her and was making a bunch of lesbian slurs towards her and stuff like that. And then A few days later, she's telling me that her ex husband's fighting for custody for the kids again. I mentioned they're 17 and 19, so you do the math on that.

[B]

You can't get custody of a 19 year old.

[C]

That's called kidnapping. Nonetheless, she's going off and were you.

[A]

Feeling like this was overdramatic or were you like, oh, my God, she was outed without wanting to be. She was. It's at her workplace. Like, I. Were you sympathetic to this response?

[C]

I would say I was 50. 50 first and foremost, you can just deny it. And that's what I told her. Everyone knows that you're straight. Like, just tell everyone that it's a lie. It's just this disgruntled employee. He's an ex employee of yours he left on bad terms with you just pretend like it didn't happen. And not only that, we're 17 years apart. Who's really gonna believe it if you just deny it, I guarantee you nobody's gonna fight it.

[A]

Yeah, but, oh, were you sad about that though? You wanted this to turn into something real.

[C]

I was. I.

[B]

But she's trying to protect her too.

[C]

I will tell you, I'm very much a protector in the relationship. So much so that I. Very good guy, best friend that I had made while working there. Him and I became closer as I left the company. We'd grab dinner and drinks here and there and I texted him and I'm like, if any. If you hear anything. And he is very involved in gossip. Like, he knows everybody knew everything. So he had the T. The T, The T. He still has the T. And he don't work there no more. So that's what I mean. Like, he was connected. Connected. So I call him and I'm like, listen, I'm not going to tell you what's going on, but I have two questions. If you hear anything about me at work, you have to tell me, me anything. Because he was still working there at that point. And he's like, absolutely. And I'm like, second, if you hear that I slept with anybody, you deny it and you say that me and you are together. He's like, absolutely.

[B]

Done and done, bestie.

[C]

Literally. He's like, done and done. He's like, if I hear anything. You and I have been together since you left. He's like, I'll tell everyone you left because of it. And I'm like, thank you. He was literally like, ride or die. I'm here legit, no questions asked. Was ready to go. And I'm like, okay, perfect. So, so fast forward. It's a week later, and she is no contact with me, not talking to me. I was absolutely devastated. Like I said, I thought she may have overreacted a little bit, but I was devastated. Like, I genuinely was trying to plan my life around this woman. And mind you, this was about two weeks before we were supposed to go on the vacation for round two. I'm already realizing, like, I already took it off work, and I'm. She's not coming with me. I'm gonna have to go do this on my own. I'm asking her, and she's not responding. And I'm like, all right, cool. I paid this money. And like I said, I grew up poor. So I'm like, at the worst, I'm gonna go eat for two, and I'm gonna go drink for two, and I'm gonna woe my sorries away in paradise. So that is exactly what I was planning on doing. I do end up talking to that best friend. Him and I grab a drink together about a week after I'd asked him, right before I was leaving. And I tell him what's going on, and he's like, no, nobody has said a word about you and Aaron. I've heard nothing. He's like, I'm connected, but I've heard nothing. And I'm like, maybe it stayed in the executive bubble or something. And he was like, I don't know, Kayla. I don't think that anything got out. So I go on this vacation, and while I'm on vacation in paradise, she texts me, and she tells me that she misses me. She's so sorry, but she uses WhatsApp. We had been texting the whole time.

[B]

What? Why?

[C]

I asked what was going on, and she told me that her youngest daughter had gotten her phone. And when she got her phone, she read through all of our texts, and that with WhatsApp, she could put a lock on the messages so that no one could see them.

[A]

Is that true? I got to look that up.

[C]

I don't know, because I had never used WhatsApp before. So her youngest daughter's name was Mia. So she kept saying that Mia was, like, really having a problem with this and was, like, reading through all of our texts and stuff. And I'm like, well, poor girl saw something.

[A]

Tell Mia to stop.

[C]

Yeah. I was like, I don't know. She then tells me on this trip, maybe it was a blessing in disguise that I got outed and all this came out, because now we can really try to be Together. Now I can introduce you to my kids. I'm never gonna keep you a secret again. This was so horrible. I'm so sorry. I love you so much. We're gonna make it through this. We're gonna make it through it. At this point, I am crying tears of joy on this vacation. I'm also full transparency. I'm drunk. I was, like, a happy drunk. Like, I'm out there at the bar getting extra shots. Like, yes, things are good again. I don't have to sit here and cry on my vacation, so.

[A]

Well, it's everything you wanted to hear.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, it really was. So I was like, maybe all of this hell was worth it. Especially, like, I was devastated for those two weeks. So then I come back from this little vacation, and it's around her birthday, of course. I'm like, what are you gonna do for your birthday? And the same week of her birthday, she's like, I have to go on a work trip. And I'm like, I didn't know you had to leave, especially when we had this vacation plan. But, okay, where are you going? And she tells me she's going to Salt Lake City for an acquisition with the company. And I'm like, that's weird, because we don't do acquisitions in our position, but, okay, go off. Clearly, they trust you. And she's like, yeah, they asked me to go. And she's telling me she's with this group of executives. As I mentioned, I'm still very close with some of the executives, and I'm still connected with all of them on LinkedIn. And here's the fun part. She has no social media. She has none. I will say I also do not. Because when you are a head of a company, I will tell you people are creepy and they will try to find you. So I don't post anything personal on there. Like, at this point, it's just me and my dog. Totally. You wouldn't know anything about me from looking at it. So she just said that it had gotten her in trouble before at work, so she stopped and that people got really creepy and freaky with her, so she just deleted it all. So the only thing we had was LinkedIn. So I go on LinkedIn one day, just had a wild hair at my ass and look on LinkedIn, and there's a whole big picture of the entire executive team in Japan looking at a piece of equipment the same week she's supposed to be with them in Salt Lake City. And I'm like, this is not connecting. So I questioned her about it. And she's like, no, no, no. They sent me with a different team. That's why. Because they were all in Japan that they asked me and a handful of others to go and do this trip. So it's just really weird. And I'm like, we're still coming back from this whole big thing, so I'm trying to be super understanding about it and I just let it be. Anyways, three weeks after that, like, we're trying to see each other after this big blow up happens. And I was over in her area for my job and we were supposed to go to dinner. And she calls me, literally the night we're supposed to go to dinner. And she's like, I'm not gonna be able to see you tonight. I'm so sorry, but my sisters husband's mom died and I have to help them.

[B]

And my sister's husband's mom, okay, she.

[C]

Said she was really close with the family and she is really close with her sister. She told me from like day one, her and her sister are like tied at the hip. So I'm like, okay. We were just getting over the big fight, so I'm still not trying to push on anything. And I'm like, okay, so you have to help with the funeral. Well, they're also orthodox Jew, so she's like, I have to get a Shiva dress and all this other stuff.

[A]

Great. Dress the body up. I don't remember that from Hebrew school, but I'm gonna do a deep dive after this. That's a thing we. I have heard it, girl.

[C]

If that's the thing you do, then that's a thing you do. I don't know much about religion, of course.

[A]

Well, that's why it's a good. Yeah, of course. You. If you're a respectful person, you're just gonna be like, okay, whatever you do, whatever you need, I respect it totally.

[C]

And like I said, she was so detailed in some of the stuff to where she told me that they were picking out this woman's underwear.

[A]

I don't know, I could be way off. There might be a way that you're supposed to prepare for the burial, but that's not.

[C]

No way.

[A]

Usually the son's sister's sister is not.

[C]

Not the one doing all this. I feel like that's not in Hebrew school, but maybe I'm wrong.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Wait, wait.

[B]

So am I to understand that she is picking out the underwear of sister's husband's mama?

[C]

Yes. I actually may have sent it in when I was Showing all the different documentation of this text that it's like I'm picking out this old woman's underwear. Do you think she'd be upset if we put her on a thong and stuff like that? And I'm like, what? That's how detailed some of this stuff would get. And it was the weird details that you wouldn't think someone would include if they were lying is what she was including. So I didn't think anything about of it.

[A]

That does that. I mean, I think that makes it either a better lie or at least confusing.

[B]

That is the craziest thing I've ever heard on this show and that we've heard a lot. And I really think she told you she had to pick out the panties of her sister's husband's mama to be buried in.

[A]

And will she be mad if she was wearing a thong?

[C]

Oh, yeah, I swear.

[A]

It's a very interesting excuse that we have not had.

[C]

Oh, just wait because I'm going to give you some excuses because they just get better from here.

[B]

Oh, yeah, hold on, I'll get my pencil out.

[C]

Just start tallying up the deaths. Because if you notice we're at 2 now.

[A]

I was gonna say at some point I would be like, kayla, you're my bad luck truck. Every time we make plans to hang out, someone dies or our pet dies.

[B]

Like first it was the bunny rabbit.

[A]

Well, technically two bunnies two weeks apart potentially. Then there was the overdose.

[B]

But she didn't die.

[A]

But oh no, her hemorrhage. Hemorrhage. Father's arm. Who died first? Her.

[C]

Her long lost sister.

[A]

Long lost sister. And now that sister's brother's.

[C]

No, this is a different sister's sister's husband's mama. There you go. You're so excited over this.

[B]

I don't know, man.

[C]

I'm a very logical thinker. So I was sitting there and I'm like, okay, you would have to do that when you're like going to bury someone. Like, you have to pick out everything. Like you have to pick the boxers. And so I'm like, she's really trying to figure all this out. But again, I had rose colored glasses.

[B]

Why does she have to pick out the underwear?

[C]

It's wild. She said that she always had to handle all of the problems in the family. It was just. It was wild. So all of that happens. I was considering trying to find the obituary for this. So I look up her brother in law's name, I look up her sister's name. Still can't find anything. But I'm like, whatever. She's just gonna say that it's because they don't have obituaries again. So whatever.

[A]

At this point, orthodox don't do that.

[C]

Yep. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I was about four hours away from her, and I am looking at moving closer now. So my job is putting me all over the state, and my two largest offices are actually on either side of her. About 45 minutes away, either side. So this actually makes perfect sense for me to move closer. She had also said she wanted me closer because it'd be a lot easier for her to be able to grab dinner after work with me. So I'm like, yes. Like, she's planting the seed. I am 100% on board. And it makes more sense at this point because. Because she's not able to up and leave. Her kids are in school. Her oldest is in college. Her youngest is about to graduate. Like, she can't move, but I can. So I plan to go look at apartments. We were supposed to go look at them together. And then she tells me the day of that she's not able to. But at the time, I was very hurt because I was really excited. I'm like, this is a big step in our relationship. I'm about to be closer to you. And at this point, I've exiled my best friend because she just created this big issue in my relationship. I'm still married.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

I don't have a lot of friends in the area that I'm at at the time. So the only friend I have is, like, some from work. I work a ton, so I don't really have time to go out and make friends. So I'm like, it made sense to move, but I left my entire community behind. So I very much isolated, and I agreed to do it. And when I would talk about my best friend, she would always make me feel like shit. She would be like, she ruined my life. She is the reason that we had such a hard time. She outed me. She was trying to get me to lose my job. I can't believe your friends turned out.

[A]

Oh, so she turns you against her, man.

[C]

I understood it from her point of view, but nonetheless, I end up moving over there. And this is where red flags start happening. Is the first time she ever comes over to my apartment. She leaves all of her electronic devices at work. She comes in the middle of the day on a Monday, goes into work and says she's gonna come up and then go back into work. So she comes and sees me and when she comes and sees me, she's like, oh, I forgot my phone. But she brings her laptop from work so that she can answer any work messages. Oh, I was gonna say that the PI knows exactly where I'm going with this.

[B]

And she wants the location of that phone to be where they think she needs to be.

[C]

So I'm already suspicious when this happens. I'm like, do you wanna go back and get your phone or anything? Cause this is a woman whose phone is glued to her hand. So it was just. It was really. That's me.

[B]

If I don't have my phone, I'm having a stroke.

[C]

Me and you both. This is gonna be a repetitive pattern. Anytime she comes over, she doesn't have her phone, and I'll ask her about it.

[A]

That's such a red flag.

[C]

And it was to the point where, like, she had her watch connected to her car so that she could call me still. So anyways, this goes on for a couple months. I've been living in this place now for two, three months at this point. And I loved it. It's coming up on my birthday and she's like, I want to do something big for your birthday. So she's planning a big trip. But my birthday is in April, which is right around tax time. And it's also right around the end of the first quarter, so I get a percentage of my salary as a bunch of bonus. And she knew that because she had helped me with my new offer letter. When I got the offer, I had sent her the offer letter saying, like, oh my God, can you believe that they're offering this to me? And so she knew I was getting a bonus at the end of the first quarter. So April hits and she tells me she's going to file her taxes. And this is right before my birthday. So she calls me right after she files her taxes, and she is freaking out. She's like, you will not believe this. My ex husband, he refiled all of our taxes from when we were married. And I owe $12,000 dollars. And I'm like, my Lord, I don't know what you're gonna do. She's like, I'm gonna have to refinance my house. I'm gonna have to take out a second mortgage. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what can I do to support you right now? And she's like, there's nothing you can do. So the next time we talk, and this is like nonstop for days, her complaining about this money and that she feels like she can't Sleep. She's getting sick over it. She has so much anxiety. I'm like, babe, you know, I just sold the house. I have a good nest egg. I can help. And I was like, do you want me to loan it to you? Like, you can pay it back when you can. And she's like, was there any point that.

[B]

That you felt sketchy about it? Did you ever feel like, oh, I know she's planting a seed? Or were you just like, it doesn't matter, I want to help her?

[C]

No. Because she had always come off so proud. I really didn't think about it. And the first time I offered it, she actually said no. And she got mad at me. She was like, absolutely not. You're not giving me money. I'm not going to be in a relationship like that. I'm grown. I'll figure it out myself. Like reverse psychology.

[A]

Well, she's playing this really well.

[C]

Yeah, she was mad at me. Would not talk to me the rest of the night. Mad. Told me, like, how awful it was that I would even consider doing that. At the end of the day, I'm just thinking long term, to be together. I'm thinking forever. At this point, I just assumed that at some point we're going to combine finances and what's mine is yours, and what's yours is mine. So I'm, like, apologizing to her, and I'm like, I'm. I'm really sorry. And so finally she's telling me that all these things got denied. And she's like, you're my only hope. You're my only option. And I'm like, again, I don't mind. Just tell me how to get you the money. She's like, I need $10,000. That's it. If you can just send it to me, you can wire it to me through my bank. I'll give you my bank information. You can put it in tomorrow, and I'll pay you back when I get my Christmas bonus at the end of the year. So I loaned this money to her, and then for a week and a half straight. And remember, my birthday's coming up. She's picking a fight with me every day to the point where I don't even know what we're fighting about. Like. So she ends up breaking up with me three days before my birthday, before this big trip that she had planned. And after I had just given her all this money.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And I'm like, what is going on? I'm devastated. I'm sobbing. I can barely control myself. Yeah, I would be, too.

[B]

That's horrible.

[C]

I literally was so upset, I called off work the next day. I. I just need a minute to myself. And it was wild. And so then she ends up coming over to my apartment that morning. At this point, we've been together for a year. And I'm like, are you really gonna throw this whole thing away for whatever the hell we're fighting over? As she had always told me, she's too old to play games. Don't play games with her. So I'm like, are we really gonna throw this whole thing away over some stupid fight? And so she agreed. She comes over, we cry, we make up, and we're gonna go on this vacation. Well, the other big thing is at this point, remember, she had told me I was not gonna be a secret, and that her kids were gonna know about me. Everyone was gonna know that I existed, and we were together, and that was her thing. So then we're on this trip together, and we're sitting, having lunch. We had just gotten in. We're having a drink by the pool. She gets on the phone with her kids. Cause they had just gotten off school. And her oldest is like, yeah, did you make it okay? And she's like, of course I did, sweetie. And her oldest is like, okay, I love you. What are you doing? And she's like. She's like, oh, I'm sitting here at lunch and names a bunch of people that she works with.

[B]

Oh, I'm.

[C]

I'm a little tipsy at this point. But I'm like, no, she didn't. I'm just looking around. And so I get pissed. I'm immediately like, oh, okay.

[A]

So that's how it is.

[C]

Like, literally, I'm like, okay, we're really gonna do this. So she gets off the phone, and she's like, your whole mood has changed. And I'm like, yeah, it did. What'd you just tell your kid? And she's like, I didn't think it was anything serious. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. You told me that they were gonna know you were on this trip with me. And she's like, like, they do. They do. And I'm like, okay, whatever.

[B]

They don't.

[C]

Oh, girl. I'm like, I. I know that they don't. At this point. I'm like, you're still keeping me a secret. So later on that night, we go and have dinner. At this point, I order three more drinks. You're paying for this shit. Come on. Like, I'm going to get a little Drunk. I'm going to get a good buzz after I just heard that. So we go to dinner that night. I am pissed. I am upset. I'm genuinely devastated at that moment. Absolutely devastated. So I was trying to still make the trip. Trip, not horrible. So that happens. We go to dinner that night, and she tells me that her kids know we're together, but she won't tell them that we're together simply because they get really upset. She's afraid that her husband's going to take custody of them again. They're grown children at this point. Like, they're the ones about to turn 18 and the other one's going to turn 20.

[B]

Is she worried about custody?

[C]

That's weird. Well, exactly. She's like, they're going to go live with their dad and all this other stuff. Stuff, honey. She's like. So I'm just trying to keep it very hush, hush. I don't want to throw it in their face. And I'm like, okay, fair? Do you think that's fair?

[A]

McKenzie, you dated someone who had kids before, and you've obviously had kids while dating. Like, how do you feel about this?

[B]

I could understand because I put myself in Ryan's shoes and I could see being like, hey, I'm not with that person to your children.

[A]

But that doesn't require them to lie to you. The partner, they could tell.

[B]

I could. I would tell my partner. I would say, hey, I like to tell Ryan that I'm doing something else just because he's really uncomfortable. But I. That's the thing I would be open about.

[C]

Yeah. But can I also bring up the fact that her kids are also 17 and 19? Like, how old is. You know what?

[B]

Ryan's 11 and different adult. So, yeah, that makes a big difference. That's true, too.

[C]

And that's where I started to get annoyed with it because I just started to think she was coddling them. Like, she was a helicopter mom, like, to the nth.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And again, I don't have kids, so I was really trying to be understanding and respectful of them, too. So the next morning, we go and we have a great time. We go to dinner that night. And she. She's like, you know what? You're right. I need to let the kids know how important you are in my life. Their birthdays are coming up. Her youngest was going to be turning 18, and her oldest was gonna be turning 20. And she's like, hey, let's do a lunch right in between the two birthdays. For their birthday, I always would send her a message on their birthday and say, hey, let them know I'm wishing them a happy birthday. So she was like, let's make sure that they know that you care about them, too. And I was like, oh, my God, yes.

[A]

Meeting the kids.

[C]

Exactly what I wanted to hear here.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was on cloud nine. I was texting my best friend from work, and I'm like, she's going to meet the kids. And so I wanted to get them things that I knew that they wanted and liked that would mean something. I really dug in and got them really specific gifts, and I go and search for all this stuff, and I put them all together and everything, and I have them sitting in my living room because I'm looking forward to this. It's April, I think by the time all of this stuff came in, it was mid May. We were supposed to do it in the middle of June. I'm asking her nonstop, when are we going to do this? And she's like, I'm still talking with them. They're open to it, though. They're. They want to meet you. And then June comes, and I'm like, so, what's going on? And she's being super sketchy about it and just not giving me concrete stuff. And I come to a point where I'm like, am I going to meet them or not? Just tell me realistically, am I going to meet them? And she's like, yes, you're going to. You just need to be patient. I'm going through some stuff. So she starts distancing herself a little bit at this point.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Because she doesn't like the questions you're asking. It's uncomfortable, probably.

[C]

I'm like, getting to this point where I'm fed up all over again. I'm like, I just moved my whole life over here for us, for our future together. I want to meet your kids. I want to be involved in their life. Something's got to give at this point. It's been about a year and a half. Yeah. So I'm ready. Everyone in my family knew who she was. They knew I was with Aaron. I was even telling people at my job that this was my person, and I was proud to tell them that I was with her. She was very much a part of my life, and it just didn't feel like I was part of hers. So it's middle of July, and she calls me out of the blue, and she's on a work trip, and she's like, I need you right now. And I'm like, I'm just getting off work. So it's seven o', clock, and I'm like, where are you? What do you need? And she's like, I need you to come here. I need to talk to you about something. And I'm like, okay. So she's four hours away from me, and I'm not gonna get there until midnight. And then I gotta turn around and come back for work the next morning. I can't also.

[A]

What is she talking like, That's a crazy thing to do to be like, drop everything, come four hours away, and then I'll talk to you in person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[A]

Just break up with me now. Like, I don't wanna drive four hours.

[C]

That's where my mind was going. And so I call her and I'm like, what is going on? She's like, can't you just try to find a flight over here tonight? So I do. And she's like, you told me if I ever said I needed you, you would find a way. And I'm like, I will drive there. If it's seriously that serious, I'll drive there. And she's like, I need to talk to you. It's an emergency. I need to talk to you.

[A]

Who died? Somebody died.

[C]

Oh, sweetie, just wait.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. How do we. If you tell me, come to me right now. Like, I'm gonna be like, tell me. Like, I'm not. No way.

[A]

We've got FaceTime. Like, we can talk about things over the phone, especially if they're emergencies. I mean, I guess we'll find out next week what it was. And maybe it's just. But I would lose my mind.

[B]

I mean, I could understand the, like. If you're like, listen, I really want to talk in person. Can we please get together? Yeah, let's get together in 30 minutes. Or, yes, it is possible for me to come in four hours. I'll be there, whatever. But it just feels a little manipulative.

[A]

I see. Yeah, I think you're right. And they're long distance, so it's like, that's part of the. Yeah, there's a lot here. I mean, the fact that we started with, like, a mean boss bitch kind of vibe and then turned into this. I'm just so not into Aaron. But we'll get more into the Dogfish debrief after part two. Because what if you're. If you're new to us? What we do is we, like, talk through what we could learn from the story and what went on. Some behaviors, some red flags or just some things that really pissed us off. It's our little debrief. It's our ven sesh.

[B]

Make sure you come back for part two.

[A]

It takes a turn you won't expect. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, just wait till you hear the end.

[A]

So we've got a week. So you tell us how you're feeling.

[B]

Yeah, give us, give us a halfway there update and let us know what your prediction is going forward. Now that you know a little bit about this dogfish, we're, you know, we're.

[A]

All the all the social medias Dating Detectives podcast. You can comment and tell us what you're thinking. If you want to email us your story, investigate the datingdetectives podcast.com you're welcome to share.

[B]

We would love to hear from you. And again, please join our patreon. We continue the conversation there. Also, we'd love to have you and thank you again for your support and.

[C]

For waiting for next week.

[B]

Sorry, not sorry.

[A]

If you have any questions or things you want us to talk about, let us know because we can. We're always in touch with our guests and we also pass along when you send messages of support to them. It means a lot. These are real people who are like very brave to share their stories. So thank you. Absolutely. We will be back in a week.

[B]

We can do it with the rest of it. And until then, as always, trust your fetion, please.

[A]

Good God, trust it. Please.

[C]

Sam.