The Mind Control Romance

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dating Detectives – "The Mind Control Romance" (Feb 9, 2026)

Podcast: The Dating Detectives
Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz (Private Investigator) & Hanna Anderson (Comedian)
Episode: The Mind Control Romance (February 9, 2026)
Guest (Anonymized): "Anna," from the UK

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Overview

This powerful episode features an in-depth interview with Anna, a UK woman whose relationship with a charming but manipulative man spiraled into extreme psychological and physical abuse. Through Anna’s story, the hosts shine a light on the insidious tactics of “dogfishing” (romantic deception), coercive control, reproductive sabotage, and psychological gaslighting, as well as the challenges of recognizing and escaping such relationships. The episode is a vital resource for education, warning signs, support, and survivor solidarity.

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Major Themes

• Manipulation and Mind Control in Romantic Relationships
• Weaponization and Fabrication of Mental Health Issues
• Reproductive Coercion and Medical Tampering
• Isolation, Gaslighting, and Erosion of Self-trust
• Importance of External Support and Gentle Intervention
• Justice System Shortcomings for Non-physical Abuse
• Survivor Recovery, Friendship, and Advocacy

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Anna’s Story Begins: The “Perfect” Suitor (03:43–07:14)

• Initial Contact: Anna, a young entrepreneur in the medical sports field, receives a business-proposal DM from “Toby.” His approach is professional—not flirtatious—luring Anna into trusting his intentions.
• Charisma and Public Performance: At his gym and a restaurant, Toby is treated with deference—waitstaff comp their meal, reinforcing an aura of celebrity and influence. Anna wonders, “Is this guy a secret celebrity?” (06:50)
• Early Red Flags: Toby’s lavish lifestyle doesn’t match his living situation; he drives an expensive car but lives in a rough neighborhood, which Anna dismisses at the time.

2. Escalation: Odd Behaviors and Gaslighting (09:03–14:54)

• Childish and Dangerous Actions: Toby behaves erratically, e.g., throwing a dog’s stick into the road (10:57), acting like a child during disagreements (“He just giggled, literally like a child…” 11:13), and public tantrums (“starts, like, throwing the bike and stomping his feet like a child” 13:35).
• Isolation from Family: Toby senses Anna’s parents’ disapproval and encourages her to spend less time with them.

3. Weaponizing “Mental Health”: Inventing Dissociative Identity Disorder (14:54–19:58)

• Memory Blackouts: One morning Toby feigns not knowing Anna, claiming three personalities (child, protector, self), and discusses blackouts—“There are three of me.” (15:53)
• Legitimizing with Trauma: He ties this explanation to alleged severe childhood trauma, making Anna excuse his behavior: “It excused the childish behavior. I was like, oh, he can’t help it. Who actually is a child in that moment.” (17:22)

4. Control Intensifies: Hypnotherapy and Memory Manipulation (20:49–27:01)

• Hypnosis as Control: After Anna’s night terrors, Toby pushes her into “hypnotherapy”—he claims to be a trained hypnotist. Anna is highly susceptible, and he uses hypnosis to plant false, traumatic memories and erode her trust in her family (“…I started to shift my beliefs about how truly they wanted the best for me or not.” 24:49).
• “Ultimate Control” Move-In: Anna buys a house; Toby moves in, doesn’t contribute, and isolates her from friends and family.

5. Drugging and Induced Dissociation (27:50–33:32)

• Memory Gaps Expand: Anna finds herself blacking out—awakening places she doesn’t remember entering. Toby claims she, too, now has “multiple personalities” and uses this as further leverage to undermine her reality.
• Isolation is Complete: She loses all external points of reference, dependent solely on Toby’s explanations.

6. First External Intervention: Anna’s Friend (33:35–35:15)

• Reconnection at a Wedding: Anna’s friend observes her strange behavior (appearing heavily intoxicated despite Anna’s lack of memory or alcohol use), while Toby gives contradictory explanations.
• Gentle Suggestion: Friend proposes Anna take a break from Toby to see if her symptoms improve, framing it as an experiment, thus providing Anna with a safe exit.

7. Revelations: Pregnancy and Reproductive Coercion (39:06–41:46)

• Tampered Birth Control: Anna becomes pregnant despite being on the pill. At her friend’s suggestion, they test her pills and discover they are sugar pills—her medication has been swapped (“they said, yeah, it was just sugar pills” 41:04).
• Trapped by Sabotage: Anna realizes Toby orchestrated the pregnancy to trap her, prompting her decision to escape.

8. The Escape and Retaliation (43:40–55:23)

• Physical Threat: As Anna tries to leave, Toby unleashes rage: he vandalizes her family’s property, breaks into her parents’ garage, and damages luxury cars.
• Resisting Legal Recourse: UK authorities require more concrete evidence for tampered medication, so Anna focuses on self-protection: stays with family, replaces car/phone, gets a restraining order.
• Digital Abuse: Toby hacks Anna’s accounts, publicly shaming her by leaking truths and lies, further attempting to destroy her reputation and business.

9. The Drugging Revealed (48:27–51:33)

• Medical Confirmation: Laboratory tests find high levels of GHB (a date rape drug) in Anna’s blood—explaining the blackouts, memory loss, mood swings, and withdrawal after the breakup (“Yeah, you need to be honest with us about the drugs that you’re on…” 48:27).
• Profound Betrayal: Anna grapples with the knowledge she was routinely drugged and questions what else was perpetrated while incapacitated.

10. Justice and Collaboration with Exes (60:08–62:57)

• Connecting with Other Victims: Anna, with her friend’s encouragement, contacts Toby’s ex-fiancée. She learns Toby is infamous in the underground drug scene—he provided steroids, sold drugs, and used restaurant owners’ indebtedness for favors.
• Anonymous Tip/Legal Action: Together, they report Toby’s drug operation; police conduct a warehouse raid, finding £15,000 in counterfeit goods and substantial cocaine. Toby is arrested and sentenced to five years for drug offenses (not for abuse)—but, as the hosts lament, not for what he did to Anna.

11. Recovery, Advocacy, and Moving Forward (65:19–73:33)

• Surviving and Thriving: Anna describes slow recovery: insomnia, trauma responses, but new love found with a patient partner (a single dad).
• Support Systems: Anna credits her supportive friend’s “gentle approach” as crucial to her escape and recovery.
• Future Plans: Anna and Toby’s other exes are considering creating their own podcast/storytelling outlet to raise awareness and provide support.

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Memorable Quotes & Key Timestamps

• "There are three of me."
  — Toby, explaining his sudden memory blackout to Anna, (15:53)

• "I started shifting my beliefs about how truly [my family] wanted the best for me or not."
  — Anna, on Toby using hypnosis to implant false narratives, (25:00)

• "He switched them. I mean, I just immediately I blamed him … That was the final proof that something was seriously wrong with our relationship."
  — Anna, on discovering the sugar pills, (41:11)

• "You need to be honest with us about the drugs that you’re on… GHB in your blood."
  — Anna, recounting what medical staff told her after blood tests, (48:27)

• "It just felt like he was punishing me from every angle he could get."
  — Anna, on the waves of digital/reputational attacks after her escape, (55:26)

• "I felt like I wanted to - like, shower it off... rinse your mouth out a hundred times."
  — Anna, describing the revulsion and aftermath of learning she was drugged, (51:33)

• "Don’t change your mind about your friends and your family being there for you from the beginning… Don’t let them take away your other voices of reality. And then the second thing is: don’t play with mental health: if someone says they’re a therapist … don’t let them therapize you because you’re dating them."
  — Anna’s closing advice, (65:44)

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The Hosts’ Analysis and Takeaways

Weaponization of Mental Health

• The hosts stress the distinction between weaponizing a mental health diagnosis versus actually having and managing one.
  “The problem is not the mental health disorder—the problem is the weaponizing of it.” (82:44)

The Dangers of “Love-Bombing” and Isolation

• Toby’s pattern—charm, rapid escalation, isolation from support networks—mirrors other cases of relationship-based abuse.

Challenges in the Justice System

• Despite the severe abuse, Toby is only incarcerated for drug offenses. The hosts decry this as an example of how “reproductive coercion” and covert domestic violence are ill-served by current legal frameworks.
  “I think the thing I’m most upset about is that he’s doing time or whatever, but not even for what he did to her.” (74:10)

Importance of Support and Gentle Friend Interventions

• Anna’s friend models an ideal approach—gentle, non-confrontational, science-based, allowing Anna small steps toward autonomy rather than issuing ultimatums.

Red Flags & Lessons for Listeners

• If a partner:
  • Attempts to isolate you from family/friends
  • Undermines your trust in your own mind/memory
  • Discourages outside mental health care/insists on treating you themselves
  • Manipulates birth control or your body in any way
  • Induces or excuses blackouts …these are severe red flags.

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Closing Thoughts

• Anna is now safe, recovering, and building a new life.
• The hosts encourage listeners in similar situations to reach out, emphasize the importance of self-defense, strong support networks, and trusting one’s own senses.
• They reiterate: “Your partner is not your doctor or therapist. Support is not the same as diagnosing or treating you.” (81:16)

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Notable Sections & Timestamps

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |-------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Opening & Guest Introduction | Content warning and Anna introduced | 00:01–03:35| | The charismatic first meeting | Toby’s public manipulation, the “celebrity” act | 03:43–07:14| | Weaponized mental health | Claim of multiple personalities, introducing blackouts | 14:54–19:58| | Hypnotherapy & control | Memory manipulation, moving in, isolation accelerates | 20:49–27:01| | Drugging & personality shift | Anna’s blackouts, Toby claims she has DID herself | 27:50–33:32| | Pregnancy and pill tampering | Discovery of switched birth control, realization of reproductive sabotage | 39:06–41:46| | Vandalism & digital abuse | Toby’s retaliation escalates post-breakup, hacking and public shame | 43:40–55:23| | Confirmation of drugging | Medical confirmation of GHB poisoning | 48:27–51:33| | Legal closure & ex collaboration| Reporting Toby for drugs, his arrest, connecting with other victims | 60:08–62:57| | Anna’s recovery & advocacy | Healing, advice for survivors, anticipation of Toby’s release | 65:19–73:33| | Dogfish debrief & wrap-up | Red flags, justice system gaps, audience takeaways | 74:02–end |

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Final Takeaways

• Trust your instincts and seek outside perspectives, especially if someone tells you not to.
• Never allow a romantic partner to isolate you from your support network or manipulate your sense of reality.
• If you suspect medication tampering, reproductive coercion, or drugging—take it seriously and seek medical/legal help.
• If you have a friend in a controlling relationship, gentle and scientific approaches are the most effective.
• Sharing survivor stories breaks silence, informs others, and builds solidarity.

If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, reach out to a trusted resource or helpline for support.

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7-7-7233 for support.

[B]

Happy dating, detectives.

[C]

Monday.

[A]

Hi, Mackenzie. How are you?

[B]

I'm good. You look so beautiful, even though I know you're a little bit sticky.

[A]

Thank you. You look beautiful, too. I was also just posting one of our videos on social media, and I was like, God, Mackenzie looks gorge.

[C]

Aww.

[B]

Gorgeous. Thank you so much. We're so pretty. Wow.

[A]

Good thing we're doing a podcast that has no visual.

[C]

You guys.

[B]

I literally put on makeup before the podcast.

[A]

Oh, I do.

[B]

You know, it makes you feel good, too. Like, there's just something about doing something for yourself that just makes you feel good. Even if, like, you got a face for radio, my friend. I was gonna say we have a guest from the UK today.

[A]

We do, which is exciting. I mean, I just love that this show is getting global and that you guys are sending messages or stories from all over the place.

[B]

And if you're like me, you love an accent. Like, every time I hear an accent, I want to emulate it. I shouldn't because it's probably really offensive because I do them horribly. But I love an accent.

[A]

I mean, I do slip into British accents. That one I didn't.

[C]

So bad.

[A]

We won't. We won't scare you guys with.

[B]

They're like, that's not how we sound. Mackenzie, please stop.

[A]

You know what? You guys can imitate us all you want, because I'm sure there's plenty to make fun of, but she is awesome. Our guests. Her name's Anna. We're calling her Anna. And I want you to put your detective caps on and let us know if you put the pieces together at what point, because I had a lot of theories throughout. It's definitely a difficult story. There's some.

[B]

Yeah. Trigger warning.

[A]

Yeah. I think we definitely talk about mental health issues, unwanted pregnancy, and some talk of sexual assault. And I will say, as mental health comes up, I, I. We know that we're talking about a dogfish. You guys know we're talking about a dogfish. So when we hear a dogfish using a mental health disorder, sometimes we make fun of it. We're not making fun of the mental health issue. We're making fun of the fact that the dogfish is probably using it to lie. I just want to make that very clear. You know what I mean?

[B]

We have had a lot of guests come on and share how their dogfish uses those. Mental health.

[A]

Weaponizes it.

[B]

Yeah, they weaponize them. Thank you. That's the word I was looking for. And it's not. It's horrible.

[A]

It's horrible. We'll do our dogfish debrief at the end and get into it more, but there's definitely a lot that comes up. Anna's amazing. She's safe now, and she tells her story so well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think Anna's story is a great example of how, like, one story can make a big difference for a lot of other people. So.

[B]

Yeah. So we're really grateful for all of our guests that come on and share. So let's let Anna share her story. Let's get into it. Hi, Anna. We're so glad to have you here today, but not glad. Not. Not glad.

[A]

Yeah, we wish you weren't here, but we're happy to meet you.

[C]

Yes, question mark. I'm glad to be here.

[B]

We would love to give you the floor and let you take us away on this journey and this story that you have to share with us. So please take us away.

[C]

Okay, so I will start at the very beginning. I was quite young, in around my early 20s, and I'd finished university and I started my own business, and that was going quite well. And it's in the medical sports field. And so my first interaction with Toby was I received an Instagram message and he said, oh, hey, I think I have clients who'd be interested in what you do, and they might be interested in what I do. So I'm kind of used to receiving Instagram DMs from guys. Bit more flirty and things like that. So I'm normally like, no, no, no, that's not what I'm interested in. But this guy. Business proposal. So I was like, yeah, that makes so much sense. Let's do this. Let's meet up, see if our clients would work with each other. And so we met up.

[A]

I'm going to ask these questions, then I'm going to stop interrupting you. Give us, like, when was this? Like, where are you at this point?

[C]

Yeah, sure. So I'm in England, and I went to university in the south of England. And this is all based around the south of England.

[A]

So. Okay. And was it recently or like a while ago?

[C]

It's been about 5. 5 and a bit years now, so a while ago. Long enough to kind of settle things down a little bit, as you'll find out.

[A]

Yeah, got it. Okay. Good foundation.

[C]

So we met up, and I went to his gym where he worked. And the first thing I noticed is that everyone in the gym seems to think very high, like him. They're all saying hi and, like, fist bumping. And they kind of seem to hold him in a bit of. A bit of sense of awe. And I was like, okay, maybe he's helped a few of them. And that makes sense. But it's probably starting my feelings of, this is a cool guy. This is someone who maybe I want in my circle. So, yeah, we ended up chatting and we got on really well, and then I went home. And then that evening, he actually messaged me and he said, hey, I actually really like who you are as a person, and I think you're, like, one of the smartest people I ever met. I would really like to take you out on a date.

[A]

And.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Smooth.

[C]

Yeah, smooth. And he asked for a date that evening. So I really like that. I'm someone who's quite spontaneous, and if you know what you want, go get it kind of thing. So we met up, and then he took us to a restaurant. And when we entered into the restaurant, he was like, oh, we don't have a reservation, but I'm Toby. And the waiter looks a little startled for a second. And then he was like, oh, I'm just. I'll just go speak to the owner. And then the next thing I know, they're literally moving chairs to the front of the restaurant, sitting us down. They felt very theoretical. I was like, okay, maybe he's friends with the owner. It just seemed like a lot.

[A]

You're like, did he pay them to look cool?

[C]

No. Well, not that I saw. So we didn't even pay for the meal, as far as I'm aware. What? Yeah.

[A]

Who is he?

[C]

We didn't do him.

[A]

I know, I know.

[C]

Literally, I was like, okay. I just. I just played it off. Like, oh, maybe he knows that. Maybe they're friends. But it was quite dramatic. It was quite like, oh, I felt like a celebrity. I was like, is this guy a secret celebrity? I guess that's what you wanted me to think. But you guys will find out.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

God, yeah.

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

Yeah, so that's our first date and then after that we talk a lot on the socials and then we get to well obviously your numbers as well. And it's kind of like every day a lot of the time. But it's quite reciprocal. Like he probably messages more but I'm replying and I'm not thinking anything strange about it. So talking a lot, we start hanging out a lot. One thing I would say was a bit strange is where he lived didn't really match the lifestyle he talked about having. And he also had quite an expensive car and yet he lived in quite a rough area of a city nearby to me in England. So that was a bit of a strange combination. Like quite rough. Like I couldn't even park my car near.

[A]

Okay, wow. Did he have an explanation for that or just kind of was like no big deal.

[C]

Not really. I think.

[A]

Yeah, that's like an awkward Thing to ask someone, you're not going to be like, why do you live here? Yeah, I didn't want to offend him totally.

[C]

I couldn't be like, dude, this is rough. But yeah, so that was a slight mismatch. But I honestly at the time I didn't really think much about that. He was young, I was young. I was like, maybe he just puts his money into other things. So we had, I would say, a really good relationship at the start and if I needed any confirmation from him, he would immediately be there, messaging me, letting me know how much he liked me. And it seemed really nice, maybe quite intense. But yeah, retrospect is a beauty. So things have seemed pretty normal until I would say the first hint that things were going a bit strange was we were out walking my family dog because I still lived with my parents and we're walking along the road, so I'd just gone to put the dog on the lead and he suddenly throws the stick that dog had been playing with him earlier into the road as a collar is coming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What?

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah, as a car is coming. And I turned to him and I was like, what the hell was that? And then he turns and he's just giggling, literally like a child just giggling. And I'm trying to talk to him and he just thinks it's the most hilarious thing I've ever seen.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

And I was, yeah, I was like, if the dog wasn't on the lead, the dog would be dead. And the fact that like me and my animals, I'm so protective when it gets to them. Of course. So that was the first scene that we probably had. I would say a row, but he just giggled like he didn't even row back. And then there were just other moments where he would do something very, just really dumb and then just giggle about it. And I started to feel in those moments as if I was talking to maybe like a five year old child. Well, yeah, well, I wouldn't even say evil. Cause it wasn't like, it just seemed a bit moronic and he'll giggle away. And I was just, it felt like I was talking to a child. Like, you know, you're trying to tell a kid not to be or something and they're like, ha, very errant. Yeah, yeah. So these sort of things started to happen and I was a bit like, oh, okay, he's annoying me. But it wasn't big enough for me to really have a serious discussion with him or have an argument or break things off. I was Just like, you know what, Some guys are annoying. Let's just 100%.

[A]

Especially in my early 20s, I probably would have, like, gaslit myself a little bit and been like, was that as bad as I think it is? Like, is that enough to freak out?

[C]

In a way, yeah. And I must admit, we also. We were starting to look quite a lavish lifestyle. So he started suggesting that we went on quite extravagant weekend trips. So this would be to different European cities, basically. So like Rome, Paris.

[A]

Not too shabby.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Really, really nice. I'm someone who loves traveling and we both, in the mindset of we only have one life, let's go out there. So we're having this one hand, we're having these really extravagant holidays. On the other hand, there's like slightly childish, irritating moments. So you can see why I was like, oh, they don't matter.

[A]

Totally, totally. Did your parents like him? Was he respectful of them?

[C]

Not really. So, yeah. So I thought these childish moments, he would just be able to not do them in front of them because, you know, you try and put a good friend forward. But quite early on, like, we went on a bike ride and it's muddy and he falls over and he just starts, like, throwing the bike and stomping his feet like a child.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah. And he's a bit older than me, bear in mind. So he's like late 20s.

[A]

That's so attractive.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Women love that.

[C]

Oh, geez. My parents were like, are you sure about the story?

[B]

Are you certain?

[C]

But I was quite defensive of him. I say, it's the first guy I'd ever been seriously interested in. So I was like, you don't know how great he is, how he makes me feel. And quite quickly, they learned just not to say stuff about him because I would get riled up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

They wanted to keep the peace. Yeah.

[C]

They were like, okay, the more we bring it out, the more it's going to push her away. And. But I could tell, and I think he could also tell that they didn't like him. So he just basically like, let's not go over there very much. So we ended up staying at his an awful lot more. And so things started to get even a bit stranger. So I'm staying at his a lot more. And then one morning I wake up and he wakes up and he literally seems confused about who I am. Yeah. He was like, what are you doing here? I was like, I'm your girlfriend. What do you mean, what am I doing? And he. He seemed completely convinced that he did not know who I was.

[A]

What?

[B]

Stop.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, do we need to call an ambulance? Because are you having a stroke? I was going down the medical route, and I think this kind of. Well, at this point, he was like, I'm just gonna have a shower. So he goes and has a shower, and then he comes back and he's suddenly acting like everything's completely normal. Like, the whole thing about not knowing who I was just never happened.

[B]

What?

[C]

And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, what should we do today? And then I sit him down and I'm like, okay, this just happened. You didn't know who I was. And he literally, like, puts his hands on mine, and he's like, look, I need to tell you something. And obviously at this point, my heart is racing. I'm like, I don't know what I thought, but I was like, this is not words anyone wants to hear. Yeah. So he puts his hands on mine, and then he's like, okay, there are three of me.

[A]

Oh, no. Absolutely not.

[C]

Yeah. He basically then goes on to tell me that he has multiple personality disorder. He said to me, there's the child version of him, and then there's a protector version of him, and then there's him. And that he has these moments that he can't remember. And quite frequently, he'll wake up somewhere that he didn't fall asleep or he'd be driving, and he'll suddenly just be aware that he's driving and not know how he got in the car. What? And. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know much about this disorder, but he said that when he's in these other personalities, he's completely unaware of what's going on when he comes back into himself.

[A]

Is that how that works? I'm gonna have to go down the Google in that moment. Do you. What's your knowledge of personality disorders?

[C]

Well, I did know it could be caused from trauma, and we'd had quite a lot of deep discussions about his childhood trauma. And he had had quite severe childhood trauma from what he told me, which I believe, like, everything at the time, it sounded really quite severe. So I. I did think, like, oh, that makes sense. He has trauma. Like, from what I knew of it, it made sense of what he told me about his childhood. I didn't know about the blackouts and stuff, and I didn't really research into that, because I did. I think I did disbelieve him. I didn't think that it wouldn't be true because because you're a person.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And also it excused the childish behavior. I was like, oh, he can't help it. Who actually is a child in that moment. He can't help it. So I did believe it, but I also wanted to believe it. Sure. So, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That was a revelation. And then after this happened, the personalities came out an awful lot more, especially the protective one. So I'll be out with friends, and then I'll get a phone call. And then he'd be like, oh, it's blah, blah, which is his other name. He gave it a different name. They all had different names, all three of them. And so then I would have to be like, oh, okay, I'm just out with these people. Toby already knows this, but you don't know this. So I'd, like, be explaining where I'm going, who I'm with, but I just put it down to, like, reassuring his protective side.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So interesting.

[C]

Yeah. And I would say he. He didn't really seem to then actively get jealous. It was just more like these checkups were happening. And then I just assumed that he wasn't having an episode. But I was kind of glad that he remembered who I was, at least.

[B]

Yeah. At least.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Thank you for at least remembering me, I guess.

[C]

Exactly. I was like, oh, he knows who I am. He remembers me. And then I tell him. And, yeah, I mean, one day, this is maybe a few months after he told me about the personalities, I went for a walk, and then he turns to me and he's in his protective personality. And then he's like, oh, would you like to be my girlfriend? And so that was. I actually had butterflies and everything, and I genuinely felt like it was a sign that we were meant to be together, that his other personalities also wanted to date me. So my friends obviously starting to notice these phone calls, and they're just like, yo, we don't like this. And I'm like, oh, you don't understand. He's got these multiple personalities, and I'm explaining what's happening, and they're like, we don't really care why. We just know that it's not healthy. And obviously, I didn't want to hear that. And I did. Unfortunately, I did relay this back to him. And then he started going off about how they don't know about the disorder and how they're being really offensive. And so I probably. Well, I definitely slowly distanced myself a little bit from the friends because he would then start to get annoyed that I was hanging out with them when they were disrespectful to him, and then I was being disrespectful to him by hanging out with them. So this was starting.

[A]

Isolation.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, starting to happen. And I'm starting to get these night terrors. Well, I've had them as a child, but they were starting to escalate. So these night terrors would be. I would just wake up screaming the house down, and I would have had a nightmare, but I wouldn't necessarily even remember what the nightmare was. So one evening I wake up and I'm screaming the house down, and I happen to be with him, and he wakes me up and he's like, what's going on? What's going on? And I explained to him about these night terrors, and he says to me, okay, well, this is your subconscious coming out because you're dreaming. And it means that your subconscious and your conscious are not properly aligned and you're not listening to each other. So you need some hypnosis to help with this.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Okay. Doctor. Yeah.

[C]

And then, of course, the next thing he says, I am trained in hypnosis.

[A]

Oh, good Lord. Was he doing any kind of therapy or treatment for his disorder? Did he talk about that or was he just like, this is what it is?

[C]

So I did speak to him a bit about going to therapy, and he claimed that he was going. And then in terms of taking medications, he was quite like. He's quite a conspiracy theorist. He was like, oh, that just dampened down your creativity. And he just didn't take medication and didn't agree with medication.

[B]

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[A]

Now, he wants you in hypnotherapy though.

[C]

Yes, he wants me in hypnotherapy and he wants himself to be the hypnotherapist. So I'm like, you know what, that, that science of it being the subconscious and, and the subconscious and subconscious not aligning and hypnosis. Maybe I've tap into both of them. Makes sense. And let's just. It seemed like an idea. Like what harm could it do? I was like, let's just see if it helps. And it's not going to cost any money. So that's true. Don't recommend guys. So anyway, so we started doing go to a real therapist. Anyway, so we started doing this hypnotherapy and it turned out I was really susceptible to the hypnotherapy. So, you know, he'd bring me down and then he would start to kind of bring up memories or encourage me to bring up memories from my childhood. So at first we were both quite surprised at how susceptible I was. I'm quite like a science. I just didn't think it would do anything. But I was really susceptible to it. I don't know if it's because I liked him and made me more susceptible.

[A]

But yeah, I definitely have heard like great people have had such great results with it. Like, I believe in it for sure. I, I don't know. Just I could see People being like, what a loony. But it's like, no, there's like some serious stuff behind hypnotherapy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I really did and started bringing up these feelings and emotions and then I would start to bring up these memories. But what gradually started to happen over time is I would bring up a feeling and then he would ask quite leading questions. So he'd be like, oh, do you feel like it's because your father left you to go on that work trip? And what started to happen is I started to change the picture in my mind of how secure and loving my family were to me. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. So I started to kind of shift my beliefs about how truly they wanted the best for me or not. And he also, he brought up real things. So he'd be like, oh, you still live at home. They haven't encouraged you to move out. It's because they want to keep their control on you. And so he would kind of intermingle real things that we discussed when I wasn't under hypnosis with leading questions about the childhood to bring up what I think now are probably quite fake memories or like just enhanced the traumatic one, even traumatic memories.

[A]

So this is like mastermind y because it makes sense. It's like, yeah, hypnotherapy is meant to just reframe parts of your past to help you like, quit smoking or whatever it is you're working on.

[B]

It can be dangerous.

[A]

He's using it for evil.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. So I basically started to distance myself from my family as well at this point. And then with his suggestion, and it was something I also wanted to do, I bought a little house and him and I basically moved into my house. And that became the new situation. And I was now not really seeing my friends that much, not really talking to my family as much as whenever they'd message, he'd be like, oh, they're trying to control you.

[B]

That's what they do.

[C]

Yeah. So this started to. Started to happen and.

[A]

And wait, you bought this house yourself?

[C]

I bought the house myself, yes. And he basically lived in there with me.

[A]

So he's not like on anything?

[C]

No, no. So he's not on the house, luckily, but he, you know, he doesn't pay rent or anything. Yeah, he's just like, we never see his manky flat anymore. It's just my house. So that becomes our new kind of like bubble. And then my. Yeah, I say, still some good things are happening. We're still going away without starting to happen a bit Less. And then I'm not really seeing anyone who actually knows who I am. So I'm seeing some of his friends with him, and I'm seeing him and not really seeing my connections of my life anymore. And I'm living in this new house, and then I am starting to experience some strange things. So I will wake up in the car and we'll be driving somewhere, and I won't remember getting in the car.

[B]

Wait, what?

[C]

Like. Oh, yeah, yeah. So this started to happen. Or we would just, like, suddenly be at the beach and I'd be like, what?

[A]

What?

[C]

Or we'd suddenly be, like, in the spare room, because we had two rooms. And I was like, oh, why? Why are we here? And I don't remember going to bed. And so I was starting to have gaps of memory. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What was the little voice saying in your head when you would wake up in these places?

[C]

Yeah, so when I'd wake up in these places, I was quite panicked, but he would always be there to calm me down. And it probably only happened two or three times before he had an explanation for me. So he basically told me that during the hypnotherapy sessions that another personality of mine had started to come out of yours. Yeah, apparently. Yeah. So he said that I have two personalities, and the reason I had the night terrors is because I'm not listening to my other personality and I'm like, overruling it with this kind of, like, good girl, naive personality. And. Yeah, yeah. And so he was saying that this personality had started to come out when I wasn't under hypnotherapy. And maybe this is probably why I was having these blank moments. And so I would say this is probably the first bit where I was a bit, like, not entirely believing him straight away because. Well, because now he's saying I have something. And this is not. This is a big step to him saying he has something. Yeah.

[A]

And also the way he framed that to me is kind of criticizing your will say, primary personality.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're naive. You don't understand. You're not listening to yourself. Like, I would. I feel like subconsciously you would just be like, oh, my God, I'm not being good enough for this guy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's why he said it like that, because then what happened is he started bringing up his other personality more. He'd be like, oh, if you just listen to her, you would know what to do right now. Or if you listen to her, you wouldn't Be asking me these stupid questions again. And so he started with the undermining. Yeah.

[B]

Did you believe this? Like you believe this was happening for real? You were like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this.

[C]

Well, it made sense to me in the way that he'd had the memory gaps and now I was getting the memory gaps and the night terrors, like I think that was my gateway into being like, oh, maybe I do have a mental health disorder because the night terrors I also woke up and I didn't remember why I was terrified. So I think it was just that little bit of difference between my conscious mind also like my knowledge of what's going on and my reality. Yeah.

[A]

And you have your circle to bounce things off, right?

[C]

Yes, exactly. I had no one else to talk to apart from him. So what happened? Because he was undermining my original personality, I actually we got into kind of a worse cycle where I would even suggest the hypnosis because I wanted him to keep liking me. And whenever he spoke about her, it would be like, she's great, she knows this, she thinks about this.

[A]

This is such a mind. Excuse my French.

[C]

Fuck.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Because you're like jealous of yourself.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

And then I started thinking, does he even like me or is this doesn't feel like he's even dating me? And yet then I also felt like this is the only way to keep him. And it was like gaslighting to another level because it was like I didn't be myself anymore. So yeah, so this started to happen and it started to become really bad to the point where every day there were gaps. I didn't know what had happened in a time frame. And so my friend invites me to her wedding and this is a childhood friend and this is a friend that he doesn't know about. So he hasn't yet said anything negative about her or that she's been offensive or like he hasn't yet been able to phrase her badly. And so when his wedding invite comes through, I say to him like, oh yeah, we're definitely going. And there's nothing he can really say to change my mind because he has no leg to stand on in terms of her being not good or anything. So we go to this wedding and it's really nice, it's really lovely. He doesn't have any of his childish moments. He seems to be like getting on well with everyone. Everyone seems to like him. And I end up having quite a bit of chat with my friend, even though it's her Wedding. Like, she. We were really, really close. I had really nice time. And then I wake up the next morning and I don't remember getting into bed. So this is what. Yeah, so it happens again, but I'm not that surprised anymore. So my immediate reaction is to turn to him and ask him what happened. And he was like, oh, yeah, other person came out. But don't worry, she was great. Everyone loved her. She was, as she always is, like, really smart, really funny. And, like, on his spiel about how great she is. And so I was like, okay, phew. I didn't do anything embarrassing. I didn't get blackout drunk. Like, it's fine. And so the next day, I say to my friend, and I'm like, oh, did I behave oddly at all or say anything different? And she was like, oh, not really. You just started to act really drunk. And then Toby took you up to bed at, like, 11.

[A]

What?

[C]

So this is the first sign, because I finally managed to talk to someone else. It wasn't just him, that things weren't adding up, the timelines weren't adding up. He implied that I stay at will past midnight. But as the other personalities, she's saying I went to bed at 11 and that I was behaving, like, obliterated, like, bouncing things, falling over. So quite a big difference.

[A]

And that's horrifying.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I think this is the first alarm bells that really started going off in my head that maybe I shouldn't believe everything that comes out of his mouth.

[A]

Did you have any theories at that point?

[B]

Yeah. What were your thoughts on that at this point?

[C]

No, not really. I just thought that maybe he didn't want me to be embarrassed. I basically gave him the benefit of the doubt. The whole time I was like, oh, yeah. He didn't want me to be feeling like I was a drunkard and stuff. I was a bit confused why he said my other personality came out because I think he said that because that would give a reason as to why I woke up in bed not knowing how I got there, I guess. Well, I kind of basically explained it all as him trying to be the good guy and.

[A]

And you being. You being at fault.

[C]

Yeah. So I actually went and spoke to my friend later, and I. Because I hadn't seen her in a while, and I think because she wasn't close to my family, I felt like I could just tell her everything that was going on. There was no risk that she would tell my family and they wouldn't like him and that there'd be a long Blown out effect of her feelings about what's going on. I think she was a safe person because she was almost unknown to the situation. So I told her what was going on and she said to me, she was like, I think you need to take a break from this guy and just see if your other personality starts coming up less, you start remembering your life more, and you get your life back to be your own. Because right now your, your life is not your own. Like, you don't know what's happening half the time.

[B]

What were your thoughts on that? Were you like, yeah. Were you like, hell no?

[C]

Well, I was, I, I was like, yeah. I think because of the mismatch and also because I did feel like, like my life was becoming a blur. I was like waking up in different places. I, you know how if you want to plan something for your life, you have to think ahead in the future and have time to sit down and. Sure, I couldn't even do that. Like, I couldn't go through one day understanding the whole day, let alone be able to plant anything for the future. Like I, Yeah, I was. And I was, I was really miserable. Like I was starting to just probably because of what he was saying, at least that's what I put it down to. But I was starting to, to wake up and just feel really heavy in my body, heavy in my head. No motivation. And she was just like, you know what? Let's just see if it makes a difference. And at this point I was like, I'm willing for something to see if it makes a difference.

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[A]

My goal for the year, MacKenzie, is to really feel good about my. What I'm calling my Freedom Fund. That is. Oh, I like that. I know you do.

[C]

Freedom Fun, Freedom Fund.

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That is the fund that I think everyone should have, especially women or non binary people. Because I think financial independence is the path to every other part of independence. Like, you never want to feel dependent on someone else. You always want to be able to take care of yourself if you have to. I'm using Monarch to help me and you've been using Monarch.

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[C]

So I asked for a break with him and he was relatively well behaved in that time. He was not overbearing with the messages, nothing threatening. And after about five, six days, I did just really miss him. So we did get back together again.

[A]

Did you notice any memory gaps in that five day period?

[C]

I would say initially, I would say not such obvious memory gaps, but I was also really quite low mood wise, like barely getting out of the mood.

[A]

We were going to a breakup basically.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And how did he act during that time?

[C]

He was pretty well behaved, like pretty normal and just messaging every now and then, like checking in on you. Just a really nice person to break up with. Which I was surprised. And I think that's also why I gave him another shot because I was like, oh, you know, when shit hits the fan, he was there for me in the right way.

[A]

Totally.

[C]

Yeah. So we get back together and things are pretty good for like maybe six weeks. And then I notice that I've missed my period. So, yeah. So I say to him, I'm like, oh gosh, I've missed my period. And he's like, oh, take your pregnancy test. And so I did and it was positive. And this was a huge shock to me because I was on the pill and I took the pill every day and you know, it says the days like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So yeah, yeah. Even though I know I didn't remember every single day, I knew I'd taken it because the next day it would say that day had gone. So. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So even if, even if you don't remember the day before, you see that the pill is gone. So you assume it was taken and.

[B]

So you're like, oh, maybe I took it. Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah. So I was like, oh, thank goodness. They had the day's on, so I knew I took it. So I tell my friend, and then she's like giving me serious side eye, and she's like, okay, can you bring the pill package in to see me? Because she works in a pharmacy. So I was like, okay, so bring it in. And then she flips it over. She's like, yeah, this doesn't look right. What?

[B]

Why?

[A]

How do you know?

[C]

What do you mean? Well, she was like, oh, the coloring slightly off, and that symbol isn't quite the right shape.

[B]

Why?

[C]

For the whole thing? Yeah, like the foil packaging inside. So the outside was fine. The foil packaging inside was wrong. Well, we got it tested and it was just sugar pills. It was just like sugar ones. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in the uk, you could basically, like send off drugs anomalously and then they'll tell you what's in it. And then they said, yeah, so I am so sorry.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Oh, I don't even know. Dude, what the hell?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So immediately I'm thinking, okay, we broke up. He knew our relationship was at risk. He thought this would trap me. He switched them. I mean, I just immediately I blamed him. I just. I think it was kind of the final proof that something was seriously wrong with our relationship. And so this is where my friend is like, okay, you need to get out. And I'm like, I am so down to get out because this is periodically messed up. Like, there's no way I can be like, oh, he didn't mean it, or this is.

[B]

Yeah, he didn't exactly.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he has planned this.

[B]

No.

[C]

And now it's involving a potential child. Like, this is now not just me. He's endangering. It's just. Yeah, so.

[B]

But no, in the States, that's illegal because you're tampering with medication, which is a erroneous crime.

[A]

Swap medication. It seems like it should be.

[C]

Yeah, it is. But in the uk, they're very much like, how solid is your evidence? And then they'll just tell you point blank, like, it's not gonna work. Like it's not enough. And so, yeah, they were just like, unless you have a video of him swapping it, it's just not gonna fly. Like, it could be anyone at any point. So, yeah, it's completely illegal. But then unless they have solid evidence. Yeah, yeah, they don't do anything.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

So, yeah, so I started planning my escape. And so I'm in. In this house with him, all of our stuff. Is in there together. And I basically wait for him to go out and then I message him and I'm like, we're breaking up. It's final. There's no getting back together. I'm going to put the stuff outside. And he just flings off the wall. He's so angry. And I think he knows at this point that I'm pregnant. And he's like, you're going to kill our baby. I want to be a dad. And he just absolutely goes crazy. So he's driving out to work and at this point he has like three jobs, which I now not sure he actually did any of them. But yeah, he drives back and he's really ragingly angry. And luckily my friend had come in before I sent the text.

[A]

Good, good.

[C]

I just assumed. Yeah. That he might just think like this. And he comes in, he's really, really angry. And then my friend is like, I'm going to call the police unless you get out. And so he seems to be aware that that is a serious thing. So he does leave. But yeah, in terms of the different dogs that he has at this point, he'd recently started to become a locksmith.

[B]

What?

[C]

So, yeah.

[A]

Wait, what are the. So what are his three jobs? A locksmith. He works in something with.

[C]

So he works in the gym. He decided to become a hairdresser and now he's a locksmith.

[B]

What? Oh, okay.

[C]

Yeah. All right. Yeah, yeah. You've already had three to. Yeah, he was just training to be a locksmith. So I'm aware that this guy can basically break into any house because he knows how to pick blocks, he knows how to drill them out, change them. And so I run away to my parents house and I stay there with them. And I do actually book in for an abortion because even though I really, really did want a family one day, I just knew that this child was not going to have a father to bring any positivity to its life. And I was just like, it's not fair. So that was really, really tough. Really, really, really upsetting.

[B]

That must have been so hard for you. What a hard decision to make.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you don't have to defend it either.

[C]

It was really hard, especially because I did really want to be a mom. It wasn't like I never wanted kids ever. It was like something I really wanted in my life.

[A]

I mean, what happens to you? We talk a lot about informed consent and I. I think birth control plays into that. And it's like you were not informed when you were with this person. So, like, really Can't. It can't really be consensual.

[C]

And then also, like, when I'm having these blackout moments, like, what's happening then? Is that consensual? Who is this other person? If I don't remember it and it's in my personality, what is that? What does that mean? And, yeah, so I book into this abortion and he basically somehow finds out and he just goes. So at first, to be fair, at first he's like, don't do it. You know, I'm gonna make this work. I'm gonna change. You see me, I can do it. Before I was on the right path when you suddenly got pregnant and flipped out on me because I hadn't told him about the pill. I didn't want to give him a reason to, like, be like, that's not true, Lala. I just. Yeah.

[A]

As soon as you give them a little bit of room to talk, they can talk themselves out of anything.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I was just like. As far as he was aware, we'd broken up, come back being really good, and I'd suddenly broken up with him, but he doesn't know that I found out about the pill. So he was doing all this, like, I'll love you and make it work. You've seen how well I can do. I've got businesses that are thriving, blah, blah, blah. And then I go in, I have the abortion, and I come back to my parents. And then that night he breaks in to my parents grounds. He breaks into their garage and we have some really expensive cars. And then we wake up in the morning and the Ferrari is like scratched, completely scratched. Oh, my God.

[B]

Are you serious?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. The Porsche's like, tires slashed. Like, he is. He's just gone ape mad.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But do we have cameras in there or some way to prove. Because now he's committed a crime.

[C]

So we had. We have cameras at the entrance to the driveway, but not really in the garage. So. Yeah, but I do. This is the point where I do go and get a restraining order because I'm just like, this person is unsafe.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And to be fair, they do give it to me just based on. Obviously they can't prove the pill thing and all that, but just based on his text messages, which he had sent some threatening ones.

[A]

Good. I mean, not good, but good that they.

[C]

Yeah, good that they did that. So I was like, thank God for that. So I stayed at my parents for a bit and my mood was really awful. It was really bad. And I was still kind of Having ways to get it better. But, like, especially quite early on, I still having periods where I couldn't really remember. My memory seemed really foggy and dreamlike. So I. I actually tell my friend all of this, and she's just like, you know what? Why don't we just get your blood taken? See there's anything wrong? And I'm like, no, it's. You know, I'm just depressed. It's just a breakup. And she's like, let's just do it. So we get that taken. And they also looked at the buds that they took. They took some before the abortion, and they were like, yeah, you need to be honest with us about the drugs that you're on. What? I was worried about this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I turned to them and I was like, what do you mean? I don't do drugs. And they were like, okay, well, you had really high levels of GHB in your blood.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He was drugging you with the ghb? Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So these. These blackout moments that I'm having, not remembering stuff the way that my mood was super, super low, especially when I was away from him.

[B]

It's basically like, if anybody doesn't know what GHB is, it suppresses your nervous system, like, making you just. It's like a roofie. Similar.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. First of all, you feel, like, really elated. And then if you take too much, you start to get kind of dizzy. Woozy. Memory loss, basically that in that wedding, while I was acting super drunk all of a sudden, like, bumping stuff. Yeah.

[B]

So he was putting this in your food that you're eating and your drinks.

[C]

I assume so. I don't know exactly how, but I didn't taste it. I didn't notice it.

[A]

And.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I don't know about this specifically, but I know there are definitely a lot of drugs that it. Like. Like memory loss or flat. Like, that can happen after the fact, too. Like, once it's been consistently in your system, then you're just.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. So I was in withdrawal. Like, the way that I was feeling so bad. It wasn't just a breakup feeling. It was. I mean, for months afterwards, I couldn't get enjoyment out of anything. It was.

[A]

What's it?

[C]

Depressing? Yeah. That it was really, really bad. So this felt like the sheet was whipped from over my eyes. And then I started to see every single little thing that he had been doing to get me into a position of ultimate control. So with this being a drug where the Person using it is not able to fully control their body functions and their memory. It just made me, I would say at first, like my. When I first really had it, like my stomach dropped. That would be the physical thing that I felt. And then I started really realizing how much control this person wanted and was able to have over me and how his intentions were not for me, they were for him and for him to basically use me mentally, physically, whatever. And I also started to feel a bit sick because I didn't know what was happening in those moments and why would he want to do it? Like, I'm already his girlfriend, I'm already sleeping with him willingly. So what is he doing on this drug that conscious me would not do? I'm so sorry. Yeah, it was quite a mix of emotions, I think. First of all, shock. And then as it started to really understand the reasoning behind why he might do something like this, I just. You know when you get that taste in your mouth that you just want to, like, spit it out and rinse your mouth out a hundred times?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. You just want to, like, shower it off.

[C]

Yeah, like my whole body. I felt like I wanted to, like. Yeah, yeah. That was quite tough actually, because I also then started to worry, like, is he taking videos and footage of whatever this is and will that get out? And I did spiral a bit, but luckily none of that happened. But, yeah, I think it's as I was thinking, like, why would he do this? And there's only a few reasons why you would want someone not consciously aware that. Yeah, so we found that out. And then I was like, you know what? I want to move on my life. I want to go back home. I wanted to start taking some control back. And so I looked to back home and I have a ring camera. So I looked on the ring camera and I've probably been away for maybe like a week at this point. I look on the ring camera just, just. Because I just have a feeling that I just wanted to see if he'd like left anything and things like that. So I look on his ring camera and his shoes are just like outside, like he's taking them off. So I call the police and I'm like, oh, I found his shoes outside. We've got a restraining order.

[A]

He's not going to be near me.

[C]

Not going to eat my house. And then they were like, okay, we'll do a drive by. And they drive by and then they come back and they're like, yeah, no one's there. We knocked on the door and I.

[B]

Was like, yeah, he's not going to.

[C]

Come to the door.

[B]

Yeah, he's not going to come and be like, hey, I'm glad you came. Do you want some tea? Yeah.

[C]

I was like, what do you mean? I was like, okay, can you please just come with me? Because, yeah, I was. You know when a kid's like, I'm scared of the dark. And the mom's like, oh, look under the bed. Like, it felt a bit like that. I was like, please just come and look with me. Yeah. And I think they felt like, yeah, I think they felt like, okay, this, this like neurotic woman, let's just calm her nose. Yeah. So we went to the house, I opened it, we went in, we started searching the rooms. And I kid you not, Toby was just laying out on my bed.

[B]

What?

[C]

Just like legs crossed, leaning back, like, hey, babe.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

It's just like I opened the door first and then my heart was pounding and then he saw the police officers behind me and then he got up and then they were like, yeah, you. I was so glad they were there, but I also just felt a tiny bit like, told you so. I didn't, obviously. Yes. I was too scared.

[A]

Oh, God forbid they listen to a woman and do their damn job. Sorry.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, but I'm glad they were there. I was like, yeah. So then he did get up and did leave and he didn't pick up a light fuss. I think, you know, he knew it was serious. And after that is when his abuse kicked it up a notch.

[A]

Wait, so what were the consequences of him breaking the restraining order?

[C]

Yeah, I think he just got a stuff on the wrists. They were like, that's just in place. You can't be in her house.

[B]

Like, like, no, no, you can't do that. That's a naughty boy.

[C]

Yeah, they were just like, oh, this trigger was in place now.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And that also just teaches him that, oh, I got away with this. Great. Yeah, I could do it again.

[C]

Yeah. And this is when. So he basically. I don't know how he got my passwords. I don't know if he had hacked my phone or if I gave them to him under hypnosis or something. But he hacked into like, honestly, I don't know. But he hacked into all of my social medias, all of my work accounts. He messaged all of my clients like it was.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Yeah, everyone put two set verification on your stuff because I didn't have it at that time.

[B]

Two factor verification. Yes, ma'. Am.

[C]

Oh, yeah, it was, it Was awful. It just felt like he was punishing me from every angle he could get. And wherever I parked my car, he would somehow find it and scratch it up.

[A]

Wait, wait.

[C]

What the fuck?

[A]

We need to go back a little. This is like a lot and I feel like it's telling the story and in the moment. We love the quote. You can't see the forest view the trees, but all the trees are falling on you at once.

[B]

What happened after the day he was in your house?

[A]

There's so many things happening to you at this moment.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of like even the relationship ended, the abuse got worse in terms of, I mean, I had my life back, but it was also being destroyed all around me, everything I built up.

[A]

What was he sending to people?

[C]

I think he said something like, I've been on drugs, I aborted a child, I'm on drugs. And just like. I mean, it sounded like a crazy person who wrote it, but it also was just trying to like demolish me as an ethical person to all of my clients. And yeah, it was pretty horrific because also it was true. Like that's what made it even worse. I couldn't just be like, haha, he's crazy. It was a bit like. It felt really cut deep. Yeah.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

That's so debilitating and degrading.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like he's just trying to make you feel embarrassed and ashamed.

[B]

He's. Yeah. Defame me. Oh my God, I. I'm so sorry that happened. That's freaking terrible. Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So bad.

[C]

I'd say it's probably like the worst part in a way out of all of it because. Because of the shame and because of this, something I was proud of. And now, I don't know, I can look people in the eye again. It just.

[A]

How did people react? Did they believe you when you said.

[C]

So? When I did manage to control back on my accounts, I did put up some big posts and I was like. I mean, it felt really embarrassing to say, but I was like, I've been hacked. I didn't go into details of like relationship abuse. I was just like, oh, if anything, weirdly being found, I've been hacked, blah, blah, blah. And I would say almost everyone just believed me and thought I was some weird hacker. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, here in England we don't talk about personal life, so.

[A]

So people are just like, okay, let's not talk about, let's ignore that.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

Yeah. So I get my accounts back and he scratch up the car and I just do a Few simple steps, like, I just get a new car. I'm just like, you know what? I don't know if he's tracking this. I don't. He recognizes it. I am just done. So I sell the car, I get a new car, I get rid of my phone, get a new phone. And things start improving. Like, I don't see him around the supermarket anymore because that was happening. Makai doesn't get scratched up anymore, and things are starting to get a bit better.

[A]

Can you speak to, like, the emotions behind choosing to try to just move on versus going after him? Because I feel like that's a really hard choice for people where they're, should I go after him? Should I just move on? And there's no right answer.

[C]

I'm just, yeah, well, I did actually go after him, so. So say more. Yeah. So basically I think I was in survival at first and I was like, I need to make myself safe. I wasn't saying it was like moving on. I say it was like, make myself safer. The attacks are going to be less if I take these steps. But coming back into reality was slow because I was still having a lot of the withdrawal effects. So I was still having periods of, like, blurry memory, lack of sleep. I mean, I had insomnia for over a year afterwards. That was a really, really long one. And when you don't sleep, you're not in reality anyway when you are awake. I mean, you are, but everything just seems a bit much and you can't fully process it. So the coming back into reality took a while. And that's where I think my revenge only came. When I was fully back in reality. And then when I started to feel a bit safer, confident, and I was coming back to being me again. That friend who I initially told everything to, I also told. I started telling her absolutely everything. And he frequently mentioned this girl who he called the ex fiance. And I think it's the only person he ever got engaged to. But he was so not over her. Like, he would constantly talk about how horrible she was and especially when the pregnancy happened, he was like, you're gonna bought it just like her. And I ended up reaching out to fiance lady because I just wanted someone who I just wanted to know a bit more about.

[A]

Like, let's see how crazy this crazy ex really is. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I reached out to her and she actually told me a lot. So she. It seems like since her, he had kind of escalated or changed some of his tactics, but you could definitely see the beginning of the crazy and Some things to do with her were really awful. And she also told me something which was that he is actually quite famous in the underground drug world. Oh.

[B]

Oh, that tracks.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Yeah, he is a celebrity. But yes. So when he was at the gym, he was selling steroids to all the gym guys.

[A]

They were like, no wonder he wants to keep him happy.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. And then the restaurant guy owed him money for drugs, so he would often go there and like get like sudden reservations and stuff. Trying to keep him happy. Yeah. So she told me about this warehouse that he used to have when he was with her. And after a little bit of discussion with how we met up and she was, she was really cool, I said to her, I was like, you know what? He's really tried to ruin your life. He's really tried to ruin my life. Let's get this fucker. Like, I'm loving this.

[A]

I love when we team up.

[C]

Yes. So we did an anonymous check to the police about the location of the warehouse, who owned the warehouse, and they actually did a raid and also raid of his car and they found I think it was like £15,000 worth of fashion jewelry items, bags, et cetera, and a lot more thousand pounds worth of cocaine. What? Yeah, yeah. So they caught him red handed. Busted. Busted, exactly. I was like, you weren't even getting.

[A]

Revenge, you were just being a good citizen.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I'm just doing the best for everyone in the world, which really would be him not existing. But this is the next best thing.

[A]

You tell him, you tell him.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, about that thing about moving on, we did kind of move on, but also we put him in jail for a few years. Wow.

[B]

How many years?

[C]

Yeah, so he only got five years.

[B]

That's a good amount of time though, because a lot of times it seems they don't get nearly that.

[C]

Yeah. I'm not sure if it was his first time being on their radar because that is quite a lot of time. But you know, they do let people out early for good behavior. So I'm just hoping his other personalities stop that happening.

[A]

So he's still in jail right now?

[C]

He's coming out pretty soon. Yeah. Oh, ok. Yeah. And interestingly, when he was arrested, he was also arrested with another young lady who she also got arrested. So he moved on pretty fast.

[A]

How do you think he was with her when you were together?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or with someone else? Yeah.

[C]

So I recently actually reached out to her, like through a mutual friend because I was a bit nervous at first because I was like, is she still connected to him, but a mutual friend was like, yeah, no, she's not. And then there is some overlap. Like he. I think he kind of saw me as like the rich girl who maybe he would marry and like, take that and then her as like. It sounded pretty horrific, to be honest, the way he treated her. That nice guy, like, was not really there with her. So. Yeah. And I do feel sorry for her because she had no prior convictions and yet she's caught red handed in this car with him and she goes down and I don't know how I know what he's like. And I just wonder if he kind of like lured her into all of this. I don't know. But he kept it from me, which I'm quite impressed. But I think it's because he had this other girl potentially kind of the whole time as well, who he did that side with and had that darker side and she knew and saw all of that.

[A]

That's also not the first time we've heard of when someone is cheating, they treat them completely differently. We had two people come on who found out they were dating the same person and they became besties. This was one of our first episodes and it was like to one, he was like a Hallmark movie boyfriend, like Prince Charming, perfect. And the other one, he was very violent, very kinky, very dark, very degrading. And it was just like this weird switch up that he had them both for very different things. Like. Yeah, that's just so interesting. Sad, but weird.

[C]

Yeah. So all three of us, it's been really interesting to see, like, how we picture together. Like we piece it all together, the different parts of him and the progression of him. And I think we have decided that we might tell our own story. So that's the next exciting thing that we might try and do is do our own little, like, podcast story about it and bring our own.

[B]

Yeah, Hell yeah.

[A]

Obviously we support that.

[C]

Obviously. Yeah. I mean, and for me, it's definitely helped because I haven't really told many people the whole story. I think there's still some bits I'm ashamed of. And just to say it out loud has really, really helped.

[B]

I just appreciate you sharing your story.

[A]

I'm so honored.

[B]

Yes, 100%. Thank you so much.

[C]

Like, my two takeaways to everyone would be. One, don't change your mind about your friends and your family being there for you from the beginning. If someone comes in and they start saying something different, just don't let them take away your other voices of reality. And then the second thing is don't play with mental health. Like, if someone says that they're a therapist, even. Also, if they are a therapist and you're dating, don't let them therapize you because you're dating them. You shouldn't mix it.

[A]

So, yeah, that's a huge thing. As soon as someone starts manipulating how you see your brain, like you said, it changes your reality.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[C]

Yeah. Gaslighting to a whole new level.

[A]

I mean, I'm so sorry he drugged you. And I hope, like, how are you doing in terms of coming to terms with how much of your life at that time, you don't know?

[C]

Yeah, I would say I have a slight. Well, I've always been a bit like this, but I'm also a bit like, okay, your life is your own. What are you going to do with it? Like, even more so than before where.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

It's hard to come to terms with, I guess, in a way, because I don't remember it super, like, a lot. I don't know what I missed out on because it's just a blur.

[A]

So you're like, I'm looking forward rather than thinking about that too much. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a couple moments in the story where I was curious, now that you're out of it, like, the way that your friend helped you, she took kind of a gentle approach. Like, she wasn't saying, oh, my God, this guy's awful. Get out. She was like, what if you try seeing if it's better without him? Like, how did you feel about the.

[C]

Way she said that and the way that she was like, oh, it's just a break. It will give you mental clarity. So she is fantastic. I. Yeah. The whole time then. And since she has been, like, in my life, even closer. She's been. She is a very amazing person. But, yeah, she didn't do it as, like, break up with him. You're forever gonna break up. Because there was no pressure conceived that. Yeah. It was like, oh, it will give you mental clarity. You know, you might feel like you really miss him and want to get back with him, which is unfortunately how I thought I felt probably in withdrawals, but anyway, because there wasn't the pressure and it was like, one small step. And also, I didn't think he would get angry at it because I could say it to him as a small step.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was more of, like, an idea than someone telling you what you should do.

[A]

It gives you control. I think about it in terms of, like, usually you're talking to a friend who's probably not in control. So it is like giving them some choice in this matter, which is way more important than you realize, I think.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. And then even when it came to the pill, she was like. She didn't say, oh, he's changed the pill. She was like, oh, that doesn't look right. Let's get it sent off. And she knows I like science and I like evidence. So I think, yeah, she was quite clever with knowing me, like, who I really am and knowing that. But I'm not sure direct approaches really work once you're in that deep with someone and they're your soul, everything. Like, he was my main friend, my main business supporter, my main lover. He was my therapist. I mean, he was everything.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So they're the enemy as soon as they come for him.

[C]

Exactly, exactly. And that was what my parents had done. But her approach was great. I would say, you know, if you've got a friend who's in an abusive relationship, it's not their fault. They can't necessarily accept or understand or visualize a life without this person. So the small steps of encouragement is probably gonna be a better way.

[A]

It's different. Or even. I also just think reaching out consistently. And, like, it doesn't even have to be that you talk about this all the time. It's like making sure that they know that you are thinking of them in there and not going to judge if they're ready.

[C]

Yeah. Like her wedding invite when I probably hadn't spoken to her in a few years. And then from the moment that I voiced a little bit of my concern, she consistently checked out on me. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Shout out.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing.

[C]

Yeah. She was great. And I think, in a way, her being a little bit separated from, like, I couldn't tell my family as much as they love me. And they would have been gentle about it because if I wanted to stay with him after I told them stuff, like, they would have forever hated him. So her being on the outside a bit more also helped.

[A]

Interesting. That's a great point. Do you think he really has a personality disorder?

[B]

Ooh.

[C]

So I'm not sure I've spoken to le fiance. I am not so sure. He genuinely does.

[B]

I would venture to say.

[A]

Probably not just an actor. An actor with a theater major with a psychology minor put to evil.

[C]

Yeah. A genius. And all the wrong reasons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it can be evil.

[C]

That's.

[A]

I mean, I hate going through the world doubting things all the time because there are good people. But head on a swivel Mackenzie, there are.

[C]

There are good people. I've met good people. Since it definitely took me a long time to retrust my trust in my own judgment of people, I would say that took a long time. Yeah. So I would be like, oh, they're nice. And then I'd be like, but are you really seeing who they are kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. How are you now with yourself? Are you dating? Are you like.

[C]

Yeah, so I am dating. I'm basically a stepmom now. Oh, yeah.

[A]

How long have you been with this person and tell us?

[C]

Yeah, it's been over two and a half years. I kind of reach year three. Yeah. And I think because we took it so slow because he is a kid, and I was like, oh, I don't want to get too involved or hard too involved. So we took a super slow, super low pressure for at least the first year. And I think that's what I needed. Like, so many guys, at least in England, you know, by third date, they're wanting you to, like, be boyfriend. Girlfriend is sleeping with them, and it's really intense. And I was like, whoa. So this guy.

[A]

It's too intense. Totally.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. And then this guy just taking it really slow. So we hung out quite a lot as well. We called it friends, but that didn't last that long. Yeah, it's quite.

[B]

We gave up on that pretty quickly.

[C]

I went, it's quite funny. My assistant was like, oh, how is your friend date? And I was like. I was like, I. I didn't know a dad could be so hot. She said, I just know a dad. I love that.

[A]

And I feel like it's so attractive to prioritize your daughter and want to respect both of you and take it slow. Like, that's amazing. Yeah.

[C]

And when I did start seeing him with her, I mean, kids test your patience. I don't think I fully understood this until I was in. Well, I'm in this, like, family role. And he just didn't lose his shit with her. And I thought, wow, okay. This is ever a test. Kids are the test. And he is passing the test. So that's amazing.

[B]

He passed all the tests. I like that.

[A]

That a yeah. And well, please keep us updated. This was a big, crazy, wild ride. Thank you so much.

[B]

I just can't believe this guy. Like the Odessa dude. Okay, Toby. That short. Tobias.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What a shit. You know, I think.

[A]

I mean, she's not okay. Nobody can be okay after that, but she's safe.

[B]

I think that. I don't know. I don't know what. I'm more mad. I think the thing that I'm the most upset about is that like he's doing time or whatever, but not even for what he did to her. Is that like that pisses me off. But I mean it's, I mean I guess it's good like, but also not even for what he did to her. So that brings up the point. If he does this to anybody else, he doesn't have a record of conviction for this. For this. Do you know what I mean? Like if they go and report it, he'll have a history of drug conviction, but not for the same thing, which won't give him any additional time. I don't know. I don't like it.

[A]

This is another example of just the justice system saying that's really hard to prove. Like switching the sugar pills, drugging you. All of that is. Yeah, it's hard to prove. But did prove it like, like help this, help these victims with their case. Like if it was a murder they would.

[C]

Yeah, they would.

[A]

So we have to at least take the claims, each one very seriously and put the same effort and support into that that we do tons of other crimes. And I hate how that happens.

[B]

Let's talk about how this guy. So this sabotage, this stealthing or just basically reproductive coercion is, is and can be considered a form of sexual violence. And by the way, in the UK where Anna is, this behavior has resulted in convictions for sexual assault. You're taking away their own autonomy. Like you're taking it away from them and it makes it non consensual like you said.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean it's. Yeah, coercion, non informed uninformed consent. There's a. Michaela Cole is a writer. I, I may destroy you. That's the name of the show. Major trigger Warning. It's all about sexual assault. Phenomenal TV show. And there's a whole plot line about her. She didn't know that a man taking his condom off in the middle of sex without telling her was rape. And it's like about her coming to terms with that, navigating what to do. And it's about the man who also did not know it was rape.

[B]

I mean and to be clear, it, it. The. The actual definition of rape does vary from country to country and state to state.

[A]

Like legally.

[B]

Like legally. But let's be real, if it's not consensual, like if you consent with a condom but you didn't know that there wouldn't be a condom because you're under these.

[A]

Someone poked a hole in it.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That is not consent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, just because you said yes, but you take off the. That's. Now it's, it's not consensual.

[A]

It's not consensual, and it's hard to prove, and I hate that the odds are not in her favor. But I do understand why people like her don't always pursue legal action because of how difficult the process is for them. And after everything she went through, I mean, how fabulous that she's connected with the Exes, that can at least be a support system and validation for her experience and potentially a team moving forward, especially once he gets out of prison. I mean, the one. If one good thing comes out of it, it's the connections that maybe you couldn't have formed without going through it. And it does create a new path of, like, empathy that you have. And so anybody that's been through anything, you are stronger and amazing because of it.

[B]

And of course, with Anna and other people talking about it, opening up these conversations, you're just creating this. You're. You're making this community bigger. You're creating a sense of community for others who feel alone in this. So I, I'm so grateful for that. But also, can we talk about the ghb, the drug?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So ghb, I know I mentioned this in the show, but it's, it's short for gamma hydroxybutyrate. Okay, I don't know if I've said that right, but whatever. And it basically depresses the central nervous system. It acts as a sedative, and it can be an anesthetic in, like, higher doses. And so it's called like a club drug or like a party drug. But it can. Yeah, it's basically like a roofie. So it can be a date rape drug also. So it causes like, rapid sedation and amnesia, unconsciousness, and that's why it's considered a date rape drug. It's Sometimes it's clear, it's odorless, and you. You know what I mean? So you. Obviously it's in her system, but you don't know that it's that you're drinking it or that you're ingesting it. And so he's using this.

[A]

So the potential long term effects of GHB are also one. We don't even know all of them. But there are. I mean, there's research connecting it to diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. And, you know, she could Potentially harm herself. When she's on these drugs, it's a depressant. So she's feeling all kinds of other mental health issues as a result of being on it for a long time.

[B]

Yeah. And if you get like blackout and you hurt yourself, like you're not old, like, and what is he doing to her during this time? We'll never know. And that sucks.

[A]

My heart really goes out to her having to come to terms with that. And we did, we, we kind of talked about it offline. But the. She taught, she mentioned the cultural difference of being in the UK and how it is more likely that people there are not going to, to talk about their trauma, talk about what they're going through. And it brought up. I remembered a person in my life explaining a situation which I recognized as sexual assault, but they did not. And I remember thinking, do I want to tell this person that they went through that trauma or do I want them to continue to live with it being like, oh, oops. Oh, well. Yeah, like, I, I don't know. I was just thinking about how that's a tough. Especially when you. Yeah. When you don't have like a classification for what happened to you, there's no right way to navigate it. But I don't know, just the open book versus the tight lipped cultural dynamics. I'm just curious people in listening, like, what do you identify more with somebody who's like, let me just move forward. I don't need to dig into this too much. Are you people like us who can't shut up? And what are the pros and cons of that for you? I mean.

[C]

Oh, that's tough.

[A]

I just, I mean, I'm proud of her. She's really turning this into something good in terms of maybe sharing the story on her own podcast, which we will keep you updated about. Yes, we told her she's got to give us all the tea, but it's, it's just so hard.

[B]

I just want to point out also that her sharing this story, this could also create a trigger for someone else who's like, wait a minute, this is familiar to me. I wonder if this is the guy and even if it's not the guy, if these are the same things that your guy is doing, like, do you know what I mean? Maybe it could open, like make you realize that you're with someone that's a little bit more dangerous than you realized or you might, you know, connect some dots. And so that's why sharing these stories are so helpful to others.

[A]

That makes me want to reiterate, I think one of the most important lessons we can learn from the story that she talked about letting your partner mess with your mental health. Your partner is not your doctor, your therapist, your pharmacist, your spiritual guide. They are none of those things. And if you're with. Even if you're with, like, somebody who works in that field, a professional in that field, I think that makes it even more important to have your own professional care team that you trust to help you navigate that specific dynamic. Yeah, I know health care is not accessible to everybody, especially in this country, but don't cut the corner by relying on your partner who tells you they know hypnotherapy or tells you you have a mental health diagnosis. Like, that is such a red flag in a relationship. And we talked about it a little with her, but still, there's a huge difference between someone offering you support for your mental health versus diagnosing you and telling you what you have to do. And that was his way in to manipulating her. Once the drugs were in her system, he had already planted so many seeds about her reality. He had isolated her from her people. He had taken advantage of her night terrors. And then also, obviously, he positioned himself as an expert on his personality disorder. Do you have anything else to say about the mental health thing before I go into the DID personality disorder?

[B]

No, I just think he, like, utilizing it obviously was trash, and I think he's a trash human, but whatever.

[A]

Yeah, no, good point. I will co sign that statement. Okay, so he says he has what is now classified as dissociative identity disorder. And as we were listening, I was like, yeah, okay. Like, sure. And there were a lot of things that she said that almost sounded like, that can't be real. And this is the second time something like this has come up where they're like, I just have another character that is a totally different personality. But it is. And I thought one thing that was very interesting. I mean, his story makes sense. Like, there is definitely he could have this multiple personality disorder.

[B]

Yeah. Like, who are we to say he doesn't?

[A]

So let's learn about it a little and then learn about how to. If you. If you know someone who does have this or you have this, like, the problem is not the mental health disorder. The problem is the weaponizing of it. So it's often something that starts from trauma. Like, it's a response to trauma. It's not something that's genetic. It's you wanting to escape from a traumatic situation, which is why you shut Down a part of yourself and open up a new part of yourself. So that is usually the origin. And he did talk about childhood trauma. And then what happens is, when you're out of that situation, those personalities don't have the job that they were created for. So it becomes this unstable way of living your life. All of the symptoms, gaps in memory, finding yourself somewhere, not knowing how you got there. There's like, distorted views of your body, inability to recognize your image, a sense of detachment from your emotions, like, basically just completely distorting your reality. And God, is that a vulnerable place to be? So he fabricated that for her through manipulation, positioning himself as an expert, as a hypnotherapist, and as a patient himself. Well, not a patient because he wasn't seeking treatment, or he said he did, but I don't believe that. And then, I mean, drugging her, like, I cannot imagine learning about that in that whole process. So I'll get ahead of it. If anybody is, like, victim blaming in the slightest, we really are not in the same headspace that she was in. And I would hope everyone remembers that before they say anything.

[B]

Yeah, you just can't. And it's so easy. Like, hindsight's always 20 20. And I'm sure most, if not all victims of anything look back and say, gosh, I wish I could have done this differently, or whatever. But how are you supposed to know.

[A]

That in the moment?

[B]

Like, we've all been in situations where we've looked back and, like, ah, your early 20s, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Goodness.

[A]

I mean, it's so sad that he was able to manipulate her, but he did everything that we know one can do. There's no cure for it, but there are ways to manage symptoms, because a lot of the symptoms are other mental health issues. Like, you become depressed, you get anxiety, which makes sense. So you can treat those, and then you can really work in therapy, too. They talk about, like, finding ways to combine the personalities, finding ways to work through the trauma that created them. And that is something that hypnotherapy can help with. Like, he was right in the way he was discussing it. So it was a good lie. Like, it sucks. He was smart and she's smart. Ugh, I'm so happy she's out of it. Oh, my God.

[B]

But that's the. That's another point, too, is that people who become victim to other people like this are not dumb people. You're not dumb at all. It's just. It's something that happens to the smartest of people. So I hope if anything like this has happened to you, I just. You need to know it's not because you're stupid. Although it's so easy to feel stupid.

[A]

I know. Yeah. And he shamed her. I mean, he was shaming the fact that he would, like, make her jealous of her other personality, which, yes, that was wild and cruel. Just like, ugh. Everything worked out for him. Like, it was almost too good to be true until a friend helped her see the light. So keep your friends close, baby.

[B]

A hundred percent.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

Thank goodness. I loved how we talked about the way her friend helped her in a gentle way without shaming her and maintaining, like, her control. That was great. The animal abuse. Luckily, the dog did not run into the street, but. What a sign. What a red flag every time. Absolutely fucking not. And I. I just. Yeah. I mean, there's so much we can talk about with this story, but she's. She's safe. And I hope we can keep in touch with her as he gets out of prison, because that's a scary place to be.

[B]

I wanna know what hap. Like, can you even imagine how she must feel knowing that he's getting out soon? And, like, that would scare the shit out of me.

[A]

Mm. Yeah. There's nothing else. Like, I'm not gonna try to be positive about it. Like, it's a very difficult situation. And if you've been in a situation like that, let us know what maybe has helped you and send any support to Anna. We love to pass on those supportive messages. Our guests are anonymous, but they are, like, in our social media family, so keep that in mind. And they. They really appreciate the support because telling these stories is something that some of them have never been able to do.

[B]

Hundred percent.

[A]

So thank you, guys.

[C]

You guys are great.

[B]

We love you.

[A]

We do.

[C]

And we love Anna.

[A]

Thank you, Anna.

[B]

Anna, you're amazing.

[A]

I want to hang out with her. Let's go to England.

[B]

I know, right? Like, we can work on our British accent.

[A]

Hey, there it is. Nailed it. Nailed it. Seriously, though, like, we should. And also, we want to come visit many of you. Oh, let me say this. Just. I keep forgetting self defense. If you live in Las Vegas. In the Las Vegas area. February 22nd, it's a Sunday. We're doing a self defense workshop there. And I'm so excited. Don'tgetkilledclub.com and we have merch now that says things like don't get killed club. It says support women's rage, which is kind of fun. I have stickers that say, my friends have my location. So you can put that and just be like, don't kidnap me.

[B]

I love you.

[A]

We'll find you so much. So go to don'tgetkillclub.com if you if you want to come.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I think that was. I think that's it. I don't have anything else to you.

[A]

I just love you.

[B]

You guys, we again, thank you for allowing us to be a of part platform for you. And if you have a story to share, please email us Investigate the dating detectives podcast.com and you just send us an email. We'll get to it as soon as we can. And we would love to be an ear for you. So thank you for trusting us. And as always, trust your sens.

[C]

It.