Molly (2:11)

Oh, yeah, there's 48. If you join, if you join the Patreon today, you will have access to 48 episodes that you've never heard, heard before. And there's two tiers now, so you have like, the $5 tier, which is the two bonus episodes a month, and then you get to hang out with me and Hannah, and we do our book club, and we have our live little forum.

Samantha (2:28)

And the chat is so fun.

Molly (2:30)

Oh, my God, the chat is so amazing. If you need an amazing group of people to talk to, our Patreon are great. But also the $9 tier, as we like to call it, the girlfriend experience. And it's totally ad free listening. And then also you can have that and the 48 episodes that they're.

Samantha (2:48)

I mean, come on. Ad free for everything, like these episodes and Patreon.

Molly (2:53)

So, yeah, if you want to go ahead and join the Patreon, just go to the Show Notes. There's a link you can click on, and it'll take you to the Patreon sign up.

Samantha (2:59)

There was a comment on the most recent Patreon that said, this is the craziest we've ever heard. Crazy story.

Molly (3:04)

Yeah.

Samantha (3:05)

Just know that stuff's going down there.

Molly (3:07)

You guys, these stories that our guests are sharing are so incredible. I'm so grateful that our guests are willing to share their stories so bravely and so vulnerably and. But also, like, I hate that they're sharing these stories. Like, I cannot believe it's jaw dropping. I cannot believe this actually happens to people. And it just. It breaks my heart. But also, I appreciate when people share because it creates a community, and it just helps people that are listening feel less alone if they're going through something similar.

Samantha (3:37)

I love this guest. She was so vulnerable, and we're so grateful, and I know she would appreciate any support. You guys are so supportive and kind to our guests, so thank you for doing that and keep it up.

Molly (3:46)

And I also. One thing about her that I really think our audience is going. You guys are going to love her because you feel in her her strength. Like, you can feel her strength where she. There's a couple of times where you're like, oh, good for her. And so I had a lot of those moments with her, and so I thought that was really incredible. So shall we get into it?

Samantha (4:06)

Let's get into it.

Molly (4:07)

Here we go.

Samantha (4:16)

Hi, Susan.

Molly (4:16)

Susan, we are so glad you're here.

Susan (4:19)

Happy to be here. Thank you.

Molly (4:21)

Ladies, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. And you have the floor. Take it away. Tell us your journey, if you will.

Susan (4:29)

Okay, well, In November of 2023, I joined Facebook dating, just like millions of others. So I did join up in November and didn't have much luck. And then my mom got sick in December unexpectedly and passed away, so. Oh, I know, it was a bummer. So I kind of put that on the back burner, thank you very much. And I really didn't go back to it until I got a message from someone named Kieran on the night of my mom's funeral. Luncheon was a very long, heartfelt message from him. It was perfect. To ever get that perfect message from someone.

Molly (5:02)

Yes.

Susan (5:03)

It was just a big, long, like, he hasn't dated in two years. He was taking time off to get his life together. And he had two daughters who were the same age as my sons. Just everything matched up. Like we were divorced around the same time. Single for almost the same amount of time. It was almost just like too, too good to be true. Like, our stories were almost identical. It felt uncanny, almost. So I, of course, I reached right back out to him. We started talking. I gave him my phone number immediately. Probably the next day, we took it to text messaging, maybe even to calling on the phone. During those first two weeks, we found out we were both cancer survivors. He had leukemia, I had breast cancer. So again, it was just more things to talk about, more things in common.

Molly (5:47)

Okay.

Susan (5:48)

So we said we should meet, you know, quickly and not wait, just to make sure we have that chemistry in person. So we set up a date for a Saturday. And that day I was so excited, I actually went out and bought a new outfit, you know, like you do on a first date. Got my nails done. And he called me around 2 o' clock in the afternoon crying, like, literally sobbing on the phone that he, he and his daughter were in a car accident that day and it was really bad. His car got totaled. They were both at the hospital.

Samantha (6:19)

Oh, no.

Susan (6:20)

Oh, I know. It just like, broke my heart, literally. Like, I might have been crying with him. It was so, so sad hearing a man crying over the phone.

Molly (6:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Susan (6:29)

I haven't even met him yet, you know, it was just crazy. And we spoke that whole week. He was in the hospital for a whole week. His daughter was in the hospital. He said she was getting surgery. It was a big car accident. Oh, my God. And he was upset.

Samantha (6:43)

How old are all your kids at that time?

Susan (6:46)

19. And like 22, right around. Mine was. Mine was 18 and 21. His were 19 and 22.

Molly (6:54)

Wow.

Susan (6:55)

Same age almost. Yeah. During that week we talked on the phone a lot. And he was in the hospital and I had confided to him, or I. You know, you always have something to Disclose. I had told him that I had a double mastectomy in 2014 and that I did not reconstruct. So it's kind of hard. That's why I don't date that much, because it's hard to put that out there. I almost waited until after I met him, but then since he was in the hospital and he was crying to me on the phone, like, it just really sped things up, you know, made it feel more personal. But he was, you know, okay enough to cry to me. So of course, I shared that story, and I. I've shared that story to men in the past, and then they ended up not meeting me. So men are very shallow about that, unfortunately.

Samantha (7:43)

So that's why I was going to ask if you've had bad reactions to that.

Susan (7:47)

Of course.

Molly (7:48)

Yeah.

Susan (7:49)

So he immediately shared a story of one of his best friends named Alexa, who he trained with. He was a Russian wrestler for this sambo team since he was a child, and he said she was the one he trained with. She was also a sambo wrestler, and she had a double mastectomy as well and did not reconstruct. So he saw it like he had trained with her. He saw her chest bare after her surgery. So he said that he was proud of me even though he never met me and, you know, said that I was strong and I did what I had to do to get back to work for my kids. Like, he was very supportive. So it went very well. Yeah, it was nice. It was nice. So that was a big relief for me because that's a big fear I carry around that I get close to someone if they're just gonna not be interested because.

Molly (8:37)

Yeah.

Susan (8:39)

So that was a big obstacle that we got through. When he was in the hospital that week, he got out on the next Friday and actually called me and said he wanted to meet me that day, that he didn't want to wait. So the day he got released, we met for dinner, and here's my. I'm a little skeptical. In life, he had no injuries, no bruises, no scratches. And I remember asking him over and over again, I can't believe it. That you got into such a bad accident where you were in the hospital for a week and you don't have one scratch on you. You know, can I see a picture of the car? And he's like, oh, I don't have it.

Molly (9:14)

Everybody has 27 pictures of their car after an accident.

Susan (9:17)

Right?

Samantha (9:18)

Oh, my gosh. And in 2023, it's not like. Like, come on.

Susan (9:23)

Exactly. But I let it Go. Because he said he was just lucky and I let it go. Our first date was amazing. Of course, everything was perfect. He was charming and he's very intelligent and funny and adorable. And we just hit it off. We didn't want to leave each other. I think I was with him till 3 o' clock in the morning. That night we played pool. Wow. Yeah, it was amazing. We sat in the parking lot and Talked until like, 3:00'.

Samantha (9:46)

Clock.

Susan (9:46)

And I'm like, I have to go home. So that continued on for a couple months where everything was amazing. Like, that he was attentive and romantic and affectionate, brought me flowers. I basically fell in love with him faster than I've ever had in my life for being honest. I know, it was great. It was just. I was so happy. I'm thi. Cause I thought I'd be alone forever, you know, with the surgery, it was always like a big thing that weighed on my mind. And he was the first man to see me without my shirt on. So that was hard. It was. It took a long time. It took a couple, maybe a month before I would take my shirt off. He kind of forced me into doing it. Looking back, he said that he could not be with me because I was in a previous relationship of six years where he never asked me to take my shirt off and was okay with that. And he said he would not be okay with that. Kieron was like, no way. No way.

Molly (10:37)

Oh, wow.

Susan (10:37)

Yeah. He's like, I'm not gonna.

Molly (10:39)

So your previous relationship, there was no requirement because it was what, like, you were just.

Samantha (10:44)

Like, you weren't.

Molly (10:45)

He was okay with it.

Susan (10:46)

He was just a gentleman. Like, I just told him, you know, that I was uncomfortable even looking at it myself, so I would never expect him to look at it. And he was just a gentleman and respected me and never, never even put his hand up my shirt. Isn't that crazy? In six years?

Molly (11:01)

And that was a successful relationship?

Susan (11:03)

It was. It was. We only ended.

Molly (11:04)

I mean, until it wasn't.

Susan (11:05)

But I mean, like, we only ended because he was younger than me and. And he just wanted to go in a different direction. So.

Molly (11:12)

Okay. Which happens sometimes.

Samantha (11:14)

But, Kieran, did you feel like it was pressure? Did it feel like pressure in a way that made you uncomfortable, or was it like him saying, I want you to feel comfortable and love your body the way it is?

Susan (11:25)

It was both ways. Because I felt like the fact that it didn't bother him was refreshing, but it bothered me. So it was kind of tough and I didn't Want to lose him. Which sounds terrible now, but yeah, it was hard. Like I literally was screaming on the inside. Like, makes sense. It wasn't a pleasant experience for me in the beginning. It got easier. Of course, after a while it was very. It was still uncomfortable a little bit, but it was. It was just nice to have that closeness again because I really didn't think I ever would with someone. So it was nice. But yeah, in the beginning it was just. I introduced him to my family and to my friends and to my boys and he came here and had dinner and had dinner with my aunts and everything was just perfect. I would have married him if he asked me, like in a month.

Molly (12:15)

That's amazing.

Susan (12:15)

Like, it was just an amazing. After I got over the whole body thing, it was amazing. I can't lie. Can't lie.

Samantha (12:26)

Holiday shopping's in full swing and I am loving everything I find at Revolve. Revolve is truly my go to style spot. It's where I see what's cool. And it's more than just clothes. I get accessories, bags, I get gifts. There they have beauty. I just got a flat iron from there cuz my straightener broke and I was like, I need a great one. And I didn't even realize Revolve had those. I also am gonna be a bridesmaid in June for my friend and I had to get a very specific shade of yellow dress and I was like, I hope I can find it. Yes, you had so many options of a wide range of prices, a wide range of styles. Revolve. And I just got it in and I tried it on and I love it. If you're going to a concert, going on vacation, just want elevated basics. They've got everything. They also do a great job of giving you recommendations that you'll love on their website. And they have curated edits, which I love because I don't really know how to style myself and they tell me what to do. And because it's that time of year, Revolve's holiday shop is live with all the trends. Because nobody does a party season better than Revolve. So sparkly party dresses, cozy sets, cute gifts, everything you need for every holiday event on your calendar. It's all curated in one place. So it's the easiest way to get your whole holiday wardrobe. Sort it out. Whether it's a weekend away, a night out, or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away. Head to Revolve.com dating detectives and shop my edit and take 15% off your first order with Code Dating Detectives that's fast two day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's Revolve.com dating detectives to shop my favorites and get 15% off. Your first order with code dating detectives also offer ends December 29th. So happy shopping. The future is here and it's called Suvi. I'm going to share with you how you can feed your family at home without any planning, prepping or exhausting cleanup. I'm obsessed with Sous vide. It's the smart countertop oven and they also have a flexible meal delivery service that works perfectly with the Sous vide. Suvi kitchen robot has 15 cook modes including air fryer, slow cooker, pretty much anything you need. And my favorite thing is that it has built in refrigeration so you can set up your ingredients whenever you have time and say I want this ready at 7pm when I get home from work and it'll keep them cold until it starts cooking at exactly the right time. And then you walk in and you're like suvi, you're the best. You're a girl's girl. Because honestly, we need help. Like girl dinner is not cute. We need to be eating our healthy filling meals that we love. And Suvi makes that so fun because you don't have to cook. You just get to pop stuff in the sous vide and take it from there. If you use their meal delivery service, the ingredients come with a tap to cook technology so it gives you a card. You just tap the sous vide and it says I know what you're making.

Susan (15:17)

I got it.

Samantha (15:18)

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Susan (15:57)

In March so it was like two and a half months later I received a Facebook message from a female. Her name was Mara and she claimed that they had been talking for 10 months and that he recently asked her to get married.

Molly (16:11)

What? Yeah.

Susan (16:14)

So my whole world just came to a stop. It was such a shock because up until that point, everything was perfect between the two of us. We were with each other every day or talking on the phone if we weren't together nonstop. Everything was about us, and everything was going so perfectly, so literally, like, just. I can't even put into words how I felt. I was just so disappointed and so surprised. Like, shocked. I just remember reading it over and over and over again saying, there's just no way, you know, how. How could he be with someone else when he spent, like, every single moment with me or talked to me since the beginning?

Molly (16:52)

How did she find you?

Susan (16:54)

Well, it's interesting that you say that, because I went right to him. I didn't answer her, and I went right to him. He was at work, and I said, hey, I just got this message, and I screenshotted it, and he was like, oh, my God, it's my ex wife. She always said that she would ruin me because he had just posted a picture of us on his Facebook profile. And it. This message.

Samantha (17:15)

Was it his ex?

Susan (17:16)

Is that it wasn't his ex wife. It wasn't his ex wife. And he's saying that it was his ex wife as, like, a fake profile just trying to ruin us. Oh, because he. Because he said at this point, well, my ex wife made a promise that she would always, always ruin me. I would never be happy. So he said, it has to be her.

Susan (17:35)

So I let it go. I let it go.

Samantha (17:38)

That's a new excuse. I haven't heard that one.

Susan (17:40)

Well, I went to this profile, and she was from. This woman was from Colorado. So I kind of just tossed it away. I did tell a couple of my friends who told me to run, but I didn't. But I thought to myself, like, we're literally together every single day. We were together, minus that week that he was in the hospital. I saw him every single day since that Facebook message, literally since the first time we met. And if. I think there was two nights that we didn't see each other, we were on the phone the whole night. I think one night he was sick, and another time, I forget what happened, but. So we were together every day, spent the nights together constantly.

Molly (18:19)

So you're like, there's no way that's true.

Susan (18:21)

Come on. Exactly. So, like, you know, you sit down and you do the pros and the cons, and you're like, there's just no. Even if they were talking, he hasn't seen her since he met me. So I just let it go. And honestly, I didn't think about it for months, which is good, I guess, for him. But a few weeks later, I was sitting on my couch with him and my son, and my phone rings and I answer it, and it was a female voice. And all she said was, he is not who he says he is, so be careful, especially if you have young children. And then they hung up on me.

Samantha (18:55)

What? That's a horror movie message.

Molly (18:58)

What?

Susan (18:58)

Right. So he was sitting right next to me, and I told him, I said, that's what she said. And he got mad at me. He was mad at me.

Molly (19:05)

He was mad at you for what?

Susan (19:08)

I don't know. He got up and he was so angry, his veins were like popping out of his neck. And at this point, he was like this gentle person. Like, I had never even seen him raise his voice or even say he was bad at anything. Like, he was just so even keeled, it made no sense. He barged out of my apartment. My son was like, what was that all about? I'm like, I have no idea. Because I didn't really want to get my son involved in what the woman said on the phone. So of course I broke up with him that night over the phone. That was the first time I broke up with him.

Samantha (19:43)

Good for you.

Molly (19:43)

I mean, good for you.

Susan (19:44)

Even though he was saying it wasn't my shit. I didn't call you. I was sitting right there with you. Like, I don't know how he. He had the way that day. He made me feel like I did something wrong.

Molly (19:56)

Yeah.

Susan (19:56)

And I did feel like I did something wrong. Like, he literally talked me into to believing it. I'm like, I didn't understand. So I did call back that number later on, and they never would answer. So she didn't even block her number. It was like a real phone number. I still had that number in my phone. Which is funny. They only called once. Never answered. I think I called her like five times over, like, the next few days, and she never answered again. That's a mystery. We still don't know who that was or, or what, what that was all about.

Molly (20:24)

But you could, if you want to, just give me that number real quick.

Samantha (20:28)

Yeah, we can check that out.

Susan (20:30)

I, you know, I did run it through. I had. I had a job at the time where I could put numbers in, and it just came up like a wireless number, so it didn't even come up with a name.

Samantha (20:38)

So it's probably like Google Voice or.

Susan (20:42)

All those apps where you can get free numbers and stuff.

Molly (20:44)

Yeah. Where it just. Yep. Keep giving you different numbers.

Susan (20:47)

I'm so.

Samantha (20:47)

I'm like, why was she so concerned about protecting herself and only giving you that little bit of anonymous information? Like, is she afraid of this person?

Susan (20:56)

Right. And she obviously didn't know me. She didn't know me because she said, if you have young children. So I didn't have young children. My kids were.

Molly (21:05)

That makes me nervous. But whatever.

Susan (21:07)

Yes. It was a little weird. And he was like, oh, they don't know who you are. You have adult children. And he talked me off the fence, and I agreed to meet him the next weekend. We met at a bar. He said he had something that he had to tell me, that he had something to confess. So this is where it starts. Really?

Molly (21:26)

Oh, no, I don't wanna know. Yes, I do.

Susan (21:29)

You do. We had a couple drinks and we played some pool. And I was waiting all night for him to give me this confession. So we sit down at this little table at this bar in the corner, and. And he's literally crying, tears running down his face in the bar, telling me that he was born in Russia. So I was like, okay, what's the big deal? Like, you were born in Russia. He just. So, you know. No Russian accent. No.

Molly (22:00)

I was about to say, is this, like, out of the blue?

Susan (22:01)

Out of the blue. Like, his last name was like.

Samantha (22:04)

Well, he was a Russian wrestler.

Susan (22:05)

Right. So he said yes, at that time or something. Yeah, he said he was on the Russian wrestling team.

Molly (22:12)

Okay.

Susan (22:13)

And so I did research on that as well at that time. And I begged him to show me a picture of him in his wrestling gear. Cause he said he wrestled for Russia and he traveled the world with this Russian team. He had that picture. Nope, no pictures. So I never did see a picture. But anyway, it goes beyond that. He said that he was basically conceived to take over the family business. It was in the Russian mafia. I won't say the name of the mafia.

Molly (22:38)

Oh, my God.

Susan (22:40)

Swear to God. He said he was born to take over for his grandfather who ran this Russian mafia ring in Philadelphia. True story. Oh, wow. Yes.

Samantha (22:53)

Okay.

Susan (22:54)

So his.

Samantha (22:54)

And he's crying because he doesn't. He.

Susan (22:57)

He's crying because he hates the life. He didn't. He didn't ask to be born into it. He hates what he has to do. He hates his life. He hates himself. He wants to kill himself. This night was just two hours in this bar, sitting here watching this grown man cry about how terrible of a person he is.

Molly (23:16)

Wait. Because he has to take over this thing.

Susan (23:18)

Well, his grandfather died when he was 19, so he's been running this organization since. So he went on and on and on. And of course, I had questions. I had a million questions. And again, we had a couple. I probably had too many drinks in me, so I was, like, silly and, like, laughing about it, thinking that he was just kidding. Because, of course, that's ridiculous. Cause I kept thinking to myself, you have a Native American last name. You have no Russian accent. So, of course, he said, I spent 12 years in speech therapy to get rid of my accent. Why? Because I. Because I have to be undercover. No one can know that I'm Russian. Okay. So I wanted to know why. And he's like, well, I'm trying to get out of the organization, but I have to do. Like he said, it's not easy. And I have to do, like, point one, point two, point three. I had to do all these tasks to get out, and they're terrible. They're horrific things I have to do to get out. And that's what I've been working on, he said. And that's why. And then he admits that that's. He wasn't in the hospital. He's like, I was on a job that weekend. I didn't want to tell you. So I lied and said I was in the hospital.

Samantha (24:24)

I'm like, oh, my God.

Susan (24:26)

So, of course, I'm like, but what my question is, what do you do in this organization? Like, what's your role? And he says it point blank. I'm a torturer.

Molly (24:35)

Oh, my God.

Susan (24:36)

Of course. I'm thinking of the Godfather movies and movies you watch about people like this. So what do you do? Well, he said I would basically have to torture people into giving up information or. Or paying back money that they owe to the organization. Because apparently this organization that he was in was dealt with money, like lending money, almost like sharks. I don't know.

Molly (25:00)

Yeah. Yeah.

Susan (25:01)

Or they would take money in to, like, kill people. And I'm like, what? Like, I couldn't wait to go home and Wikipedia this group. And it is a real.

Samantha (25:08)

I was gonna say the rabbit hole. I would go down. Oh, the Russian mafia of Philadelphia.

Susan (25:15)

You have no idea. So it is real. It's a real group that. He said they're legit, and they're one of the biggest and strongest Russian mafias in the world. And they're still alive today for sure. Oh. So, of course, I broke up with him that night. I let him go home. I Said I didn't feel good. I went home. He went home and he knew something was wrong. He called me. I said, I can't do this. He's like, oh, no, no. So he shows up at my door. He Ubers to my apartment at like 2:30 in the morning, banging on my sliding glass door. So I let him in. And he was angry and he was different than ever. He. He pinned me to the ground using all of his strength.

Molly (25:55)

What?

Susan (25:55)

Oh, it was how he was so angry. And he was yelling in my face, screaming in my face. I'm like, wait a minute. Like, I had to. Like, I'm a very calm person. I don't argue, I don't fight. I just how. It's just how I am. So when people yell at me, I, I cry. Usually I don't like to be yelled at. So of course I sit him down. We're up that whole night talking, and he told me that he. He could have me and my kids killed for 200 bucks.

Molly (26:21)

Oh my God.

Susan (26:22)

He said, I can make one call right now.

Samantha (26:24)

Are you scared?

Susan (26:24)

Oh, yes. I mean, but I was drunk, which is terrible, and I don't drink that often, so I was dizzy and not feeling very well. And of course, with his news, it made it 10 times worse. And I'm like, wait, but you believed it.

Samantha (26:37)

Like, there was no part of you that was like, is this a dream or is he lying? You.

Susan (26:41)

Well, at first I.

Samantha (26:42)

Or were you just so foggy?

Susan (26:44)

When I had the bar, I didn't believe it. Like, I was laughing at him. Like he was telling me jokes and he was getting mad at me. And I'm like, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life. It was just so ridiculous. And he was such a great person in the beginning. And that's why I was like, were you pretending to be that guy? He's like, no, no, that's. That's really how I am and that's how I want to be. I'm trying to get out of this organization. So I, I had asked a hundred questions, and he told me that he basically tortures people by breaking their fingers, by pulling out their fingernails, by pulling out teeth.

Molly (27:19)

That is so medieval. Oh my God.

Susan (27:21)

Oh, yeah. And he. Serious face, like, not. Not a smile, not a laugh. So at the end of that night, it was like 6 o' clock in the morning. We were still up talking. I believed him 100%. And I was scared. And I was scared to break up with him because now that I knew this Information about him and that he was such a bad person. It was a different kind of given in, if that makes sense. Like, I felt like I had no other choice, you know, if he's this angry at me and I heard the horrible things that he does to people. Like, I didn't want to be one of those people, Especially putting my kids out there, saying that he could have us killed for $200 definitely changed something inside of me. And I definitely reacted differently after that. When he got angry, I didn't fight back ever. After that point, definitely, I felt like I was a prisoner in his world for sure. Like, the next couple weeks were just. Even months were awful. Like, God awful. Like, if he was mad, it was just him being mad, him yelling, him screaming, and me basically just crying and begging him to leave or begging him to walk away or, you know, I was always trying to be nice to him and walk on eggshells around him to keep him happy.

Samantha (28:37)

Did he seem to like that or. Yes, because that sounds like it changes your dynamic. So he did like that.

Susan (28:42)

He did like that. And he knew what he was doing. I mean, he literally destabilized my life at this point. No exaggeration. My whole. Whole being changed. My. I changed at work. I changed with my friends.

Molly (28:54)

Like, I bet you did.

Susan (28:56)

Yeah.

Samantha (28:56)

You're like, all of a sudden captive.

Molly (28:59)

Yeah.

Susan (29:00)

One time he called me and said, there's something going on right now I cannot get into. But he said, I just wanted to let you know I have someone sitting in your parking lot making sure that you're safe.

Molly (29:09)

What?

Susan (29:11)

So that made me feel. That made me feel unsafe. And I'm like, what? I don't really need somebody. He's like, no, trust me, you need that person sitting there. They're going to make sure that you're safe. So of course I stayed inside. Like, I was afraid to go outside again. It was incomprehensible to me. It changed so much. I was a different person. Like, even when I was not with him or around him, and he was always on my mind, always just thinking about where he is or who he's with or what they're scheming up, it was just really life changing. He literally, like, halted my life. I didn't feel safe anymore. Even just run into the store quickly. I would look over my shoulder, like, I would be putting gasoline into my car and I would be looking around. It felt like I was in a movie. You see those movies where women know they're being stalked or watched, and I turned into that Person always making sure the door was locked and telling my kids, like, make sure the windows are locked. I changed, like our life's. My life just was different right after that. It just. It was never the same. It was like, I say the reference, like it was a movie, because I watch a lot of crime type movies and I felt like I was in a movie. I felt like I was being scammed almost, you know, like. Like can to camera type situation. Like, how could I be involved with someone like this? How. How does somebody like this live so close to me? You know, you see it in cities or whatever. I just didn't even believe that it could happen to anybody in real life. So I. I took to the Internet a lot and discovered that it is real life and it is in my neighbor, you know, things happen. So of course I was always on guard, always making sure my kids were safe, even though they were, you know, young adults. Just. I would even be afraid to go out with, like, certain friends because he would always say things about a couple of my friends that he didn't like me hanging out with. So I was always afraid of their lives as well. I was literally afraid for everybody in my life. That's the point I was at.

Samantha (31:08)

Who did you tell, if anyone?

Susan (31:10)

I told a close friend who lives very close by, who no longer speaks to me because she was mad at me for not turning him in. I actually did call the police one night and I told them forget it because he had told me that if I ever did call the police, that he would be the only one to walk out alive. And I believed him. You know, if somebody's in, again, my only reference is TV and movies. But if somebody is involved with mafia and they're the kind of people they associate with, that they can hurt you and they could hurt the police. So I did believe that if I called the police, that he would hurt them. And she said she didn't want to hear anymore if I wasn't going to call the police. She did not want to be friends with me. She didn't feel safe being my friend. So she friended me on Facebook and she. I no longer speak to her. And I miss her.

Molly (32:04)

Oh, wow.

Susan (32:04)

I do miss her because she was a really, really good friend. So that was tough. And I think he liked that. I think he liked me being alone and, you know, waiting for him. Of course, I think he enjoyed that the most. He literally was the person who hurt me and then the person that I had to go to to seek that comfort. It just made no sense.

Molly (32:22)

He was the poison and the anti.

Susan (32:24)

Yeah, it made no sense to me. Like I never like you would hear stories or watch movies and I always hated that girl. And here I am. I'm that girl.

Molly (32:35)

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Susan (35:58)

I broke up with him. I bet you 50 times total. And every single time he would call text. Even if I blocked him, he would still call. He would get these fake text apps where he would have another number and sometimes I would have like 10 numbers blocked and they were all him. Like, so he would never give up. He would literally call me, text me hundreds of times. Like, I would wake up in the morning to 300 some texts. Like he was up all night just texting me. They would go through all different levels of he's mad at me, he's sad without me. He. Then he would be mean to me. Like, he would just like be talking to himself all night long. Most of the time I didn't even read the text. But then also there was voicemails where he was crying and if I didn't respond to them, he would show up at all hours of the night and he would always be angry and rough me up a little bit. I got to the point where I was just like, it's not gonna go away. So I just would give in every single time. I literally did break up with him pretty probably more than 50 times. It was a lot. I'm talking like four or five times a week. And every single time, I was dead set. Like, I'm doing it this time. I'm not going to unblock him. And then he would start calling with other numbers or texting with other numbers or just showing up. I literally felt like I couldn't escape him. Like, he proved that to me over and over, that he was never going to let me go.

Molly (37:23)

What do you mean?

Susan (37:24)

Rough me?

Molly (37:24)

Explain. Rough me up. He never hit me.

Susan (37:27)

And I say that. And I said that to myself. Like, oh, he doesn't hit you. But I would have his fingerprint bruises on my arms. Like, I. Okay. Like, he was rough. He would pin me down. He was real big with putting his arm across my face, his forearm across my face, and just hold me down. Cause it hurts even though you're not getting hit.

Molly (37:47)

Yeah.

Susan (37:48)

You know, I actually had two black eyes from him doing that to me one day. Isn't that amazing? You can press hard enough on somebody's nose and their cheeks to give them black eyes.

Molly (37:56)

That is insane.

Susan (37:59)

Yep. But the craziest part, I live in an apartment building, so I have a neighbor above me that I could hear almost everything that they do up there. There were so many times, I bet you a dozen times that I was screaming on top of my lungs for him to stop hurting me. And they never called the police. See, that was my thought. Like, if I'm loud enough or if he's loud enough, somebody in this building will call the police. No one ever did. And I would even let him in when he was angry, hoping that my neighbor upstairs would call the police. And he never did. Because I would have felt it would have been safer if someone else called and not me, you know? And that's when. That's the black eye day, is when my neighbor said, I can't be a part of this anymore. She was my neighbor and my friend I told you about. Because I would go to her and I would be crying, and she'd be like, you come to me. You cry. I tell you what to do. You don't listen. So I just can't be a part of this anymore. And I do get that now, looking back, I get her decision. But she was my safe spot to go to.

Samantha (38:58)

But that's a conflicting one, right?

Susan (39:02)

For sure.

Molly (39:03)

It sure is for sure.

Susan (39:04)

Well, the worst part is coming up. It was May, so we're only in May. And we met in January.

Susan (39:12)

He was in the hospital again. He had called me and said that he passed out at work, and they took him to the emergency room. He ended up getting admitted. He was calling me, scared, crying, confused. Some days, like, not knowing where he was. I'm like, what do you mean you don't know where you are? You're at the hospital. Like, what hospital are you in? I'll come and see you. Oh, no, I don't want you to come here. Trust me. You're not allowed to see me. Because he said that he had a guy sitting outside of his hospital room guarding his door. So it was a guy from the organization. So my Aunt Rose called around to every hospital in the area, and he was nowhere. So I. Of course, I said, you know, Kieran, where the hell are you? So he sends me a screenshot of a hospital, like, with, like. He literally looked up the hospital and then took a screenshot of it and thought that I would believe him, that that was his location. So then he calls me on the phone and says that he has encephalitis. And if you know what that is, it's like when your brain is swollen and it's very, very, very serious, and, like, people die from it. So I call my aunt who's in the medical field, my Aunt Rose. And she was like, oh, my God. This could explain why he is the way that he is. Because encephalitis affects your mood, your personality. It makes you delusional. She's like, oh, you know, I'm glad he's getting help. I was still mad that I didn't know what hospital he was in.

Molly (40:34)

Yeah.

Susan (40:35)

So I finally call him, and I said, listen, I'm at my wit's end. I'm over this. If you don't tell me right now where you are, he's like, I can't tell you. And I'm in the hospital under my Russian name. So here, this is when in May started, that he has another name and he can't tell me what it is.

Susan (40:55)

For his own safety and for my safety. And he's like, oh, okay. They're the one paying the medical bills, so I have to go follow their rules.

Susan (41:04)

So I'm like, well, why is this guy sitting outside your door? I'm so confused. He's like, well, you don't understand. If something happens to me and I die, you know that ring that I wear sometimes? He said, it has to be passed on to the next person in line.

Susan (41:19)

So I'm like, what the fuck? Right? Exactly. And so I, of course, I. Russian prince, right? So, of course, needless to say that I broke up with him again at that point. And this is when the anger changed. I woke up to 470 text one morning. He was up all night long just texting me how awful I am, how ugly I am. Oh, how disgusting my body is. This is when it turned that he. He took that from me and said that laying with me was like laying with a 12 year old boy. I mean everything to her, everything. He thought the insults were unreal like never before. And oh, I am so sorry.

Molly (42:02)

That must have been awful.

Susan (42:03)

It was awful because I trusted him with that. You know, it was so hard for me to lay down with him like that and for him to use that against me was just brutal. Of course he shows up the next day crying the victim again saying that I told you I was a mean person and I. This organization did this to me and I'm sorry. And it hurts me when you break up with me and block me. And so here I am scared again. And I was. Now I'm scared. And I was really, really sad because I trusted him with my body and now I know how he really feels. So how could I ever be with him again in that way? So this is what the bastard did this night. He came to my house and forced me, I mean physically forcefully forced me to take off my clothes. He took my arms and put them behind my back.

Susan (42:59)

And made me look in the mirror. Held me in front of the mirror for like 10 minutes. I was screaming. I was never so humiliated in my entire life. A little background. I don't look at myself in the mirror. It's really sad. I have a huge issue with of course with my body.

Molly (43:17)

I can't even imagine. And then him to exploit that.

Susan (43:20)

And he had the lights on. He turned the lights on in my bedroom and held me in front of my long mirror. It was just like that's the worst thing he did to me the whole time. Out of everything, I tell you, that's the worst. I didn't think I would ever get over that. It was shitty. It was beyond. He held me there until I opened my eyes and looked. So I finally had opened my eyes because I was so. I can't explain how I felt. But the craziest part about that was he was so proud of himself. Like he was like, now you can get it out of your mind that I think that you're disgusting. He said, I love your body. And now you have to believe that. And I'm like, wait. I'm like, wait what? Like wait. I said the only right I'm like, the only reason why I think my body's disgusting is because you told me like, 18 times in the past week how disgusting it is. It was so confusing to me. And then all of a sudden, again, he's the victim. He's crying. I hurt his feelings, of course. I broke up with him, told him to get out of my apartment again. He wouldn't leave. I could not stop crying. My face was purple. Like, I was so upset. It was the most upsetting thing. And he didn't understand. He didn't understand why I was so upset. He's like, you should thank me. You should open your eyes and look at yourself.

Samantha (44:39)

Oh, this is twisted.

Susan (44:40)

It's torturous, right? Torturous because, like, he's the torturer.

Samantha (44:44)

He got so in your head. He got so in your head.

Susan (44:46)

He tortured me. And when he told me he was a torturer that night, he is for sure a torturer, because that was complete torture for me. And he actually laid in my bed that night, and I all night, I did not close my eyes once. I could not stop thinking about it. And then he was snoring next to me, like, you know, the Russian prince getting his beauty sleep. I was so pissed. I, I, I don't know. You ever watch movies, like, women in the middle of the night, like, do bad things to their man? Like, I thought about it, like, this man deserves to be hurt. But of course, I never had the guts to do anything to him. So the next day, he leaves, and I broke up with him. I blocked him again. And like, three days later, he calls me again. He's in the hospital again. It was a Wednesday night. I was at my friend's house having dinner. I had just told my friends about what happened that night, which I wasn't going to do, but I just had to talk to somebody, and I trust them. And Kieran calls me and says, I'm in the hospital. He's crying. He says he has a bleeding ulcer, and it's all my fault because I stress him out. So I said, well, what hospital are you in? So he tells me this time straight up. So I'm like, oh, maybe he is really there. So my friend's like, you should drive to his house just for kicks. And I'm like, all right. So I left after dinner and drove to his house, and there his car is right in front. So I'm texting him, like, oh, did you take an ambulance to the hospital? He's like, no, I drove. Oh, okay. So I get out of my Car. And I walk up to his window. He lives on the bottom floor. And I literally can see him laying on his couch watching tv.

Molly (46:21)

Oh, my God.

Susan (46:22)

I know it sounds like a stalker, but I call him on the phone.

Molly (46:25)

No, I mean, you do what you gotta do. You know what I mean? Like, what?

Susan (46:29)

I call him on the phone and literally watch him pick up his phone off the coffee table. I'm looking right in his window. He answers the phone. Hello? Like he's dying. And I'm like, hello? I said, where are you? And he's like, I told you, I'm in the hospital. I'm getting surgery in the morning because I have a bleeding ulcer. And I'm like, well, why am I looking at you right now? So I was so angry, I got into my car and left. And I'm like, this is it. Like, I swore to myself, I don't know what is wrong with him, but who does this to somebody? Is it for attention? Is it. Well, in his case, it was to get me back. And he knew it worked every single time. Like, if he cried, I came running.

Susan (47:09)

So I left. And he. Ready for this story, ladies?

Molly (47:13)

No. Yes. Carry on.

Susan (47:16)

He tells me, that's not me in my apartment. That's a decoy.

Molly (47:20)

What?

Susan (47:20)

What?

Molly (47:21)

Oh, blessed redeemer, here we go.

Samantha (47:23)

You evil Russian twin.

Susan (47:25)

He says. He says, the organization can't know that I'm sick. Okay? I said, but I watched you. I watched you pick up your phone. Like, I literally watched you pick up your phone when I called you. Oh. He's like, that must have just been a coincidence. So I avoided him for a few days, but he came here again late at night like he always does, and talked me into seeing him again that weekend.

Samantha (47:49)

Man. This episode has me thinking a lot about communication as a couple asking the right questions. Obviously, this story is, like, extreme to the extreme, but I really love the Paired app because I think every couple can relate to feeling like there's stuff that needs to be said, but you don't necessarily know what question to ask. You don't know how to bring up a topic that might be uncomfortable, a fear complaint, or you just want to give more love and compliments. But what doesn't always come easily to everybody, Communication is hard. The Paired app is so smart, and I've loved using it in my last relationship. We loved it. It's an app that you pair with your partner, and every day it just takes a few minutes to each get a separate question, and then when you answer it, it shares it with the other person and you can discuss it. And some of them are more not serious. I mean serious but like just not silly goofy. Like what's one thing I could do better with my finances? You answer it about yourself. Or maybe it's like do we need to do something better with our finances? You both answer it. Or like what's something that we both disagree on? Paired also prompts you with questions that help you start these conversations that are so important to have in your relationship. It's backed by experts and relationship therapists. It's proven to work and I just love that you'll learn new things about each other and strengthen your relationship. It's more than just questions. There's also games, quizzes, fun and light ways to connect and whether you're just a few dates in or have been together a long time. Find the time to connect with your partner and nourish your relationship. Start strengthening your relationship in an easy, fun way and it only takes 5 minutes a day. Head to pear.comdingdetectives to get a 7 day free trial and 25 off if you sign up for a subscription. Just head to P A I r e d.com datingdetectives to sign up today.

Molly (49:41)

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Susan (51:18)

So we come up to, we had a horrible summer. The whole summer was terrible. I probably saw him three times a month. I avoided him, but he still kept. Kept me hanging by a thread, if that makes sense. It's enough. I actually joined Facebook dating again in July. And I was like, I'm just gonna. One of his friends saw me on there, so he screenshotted it and sent me a picture of my profile. Oh, you're back on Facebook dating. And then I was getting new Facebook friends. Not, not that I was dating, but he was like reaching out to them. Are you sleeping with her? What? Like, I'm like, you are crazy. Like, he did everything. Oh, he was so possessive and jealous that I was afraid to even talk to anybody else. Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna involve anybody else in this. I mean, I literally have screenshots of messages he sent to, to someone telling this big long story about me saying, run from her. Stay away from her. But then he says, oh, I just did that so I could have you. I don't want anyone else having you. I'm like, yeah, I could see that. This guy, come September, we kind of got back together and it was good. He promised me. He changed. He said that he got out of the organization or he's almost out of the organization, who knows? But then here was a day he was in a hospital again. So he says, who knows why?

Samantha (52:35)

Wait, before we go there, can you just, can you just take me through the conversation of getting back together? Like, oh, yeah, how did that happen?

Molly (52:43)

That's a good question.

Susan (52:44)

You know, he just exactly knew what to say to me. And he basically would use the whole no one else is gonna want you.

Molly (52:51)

You know, he made you ashamed of yourself attitude.

Susan (52:54)

Like, no one else is gonna accept your body. No one else is going to love you like I do, you know?

Molly (52:59)

Oh, okay.

Susan (53:00)

And I believe them, though.

Samantha (53:01)

He just hit all the insecurities that you had shared.

Molly (53:04)

Unmet needs.

Samantha (53:05)

Totally.

Susan (53:05)

Because it's so hard. It was so hard for me to put myself out there. He just knew exactly what to say to me. Always.

Susan (53:14)

Would sweep me off my feet, you know, he would be great for like seven, eight days. And then it Would all start all over again. He was a master manipulator when it became to me, anyway, it was the crying, the crying back in there. He, you know, called me crying. He's in the hospital again. He's scared. He's not sure what's going on. He passed out again. He always said he passed out, which I don't even know how true. I've never seen him pass out. But he says he passes out all the time.

Samantha (53:40)

Dude, eat some protein and get over it.

Susan (53:42)

Right, Sorry. This day he, you know, calling me, crying to me when I was at work. Then he went silent and he was MIA for like four hours. So of course, here I am. He does this to me. He knows I'm worried about him. He knows I'm going to come to him like I always do.

Molly (53:57)

Yep.

Susan (53:57)

So I show up at his apartment. He lets me right in. He says he has to go to sleep. It was like 9 o' clock at night. He's like, you can stay over if you want. So I lay down next to him. He fell right asleep. I think he took like Xanax or something because he was out like a light. And the next morning he went into the bathroom and left his phone on the bed. And I've never ever touched his phone because he never ever left his phone out, ever, ever. Like he was one of those people that he would sleep with that phone in his hand. And it was unlocked. So he threw it on the bed and I saw that it was unlocked. And he went into the bathroom and I picked it up and I opened up the. I went right to the messages, of course, like text messages and the first thread, the person's name was in his phone as asshole. So of course I opened it up. And two lines. 10, 10pm the night before, he sent a text that said, mara, I love you and cannot live without you. Mara is the one that sent me that message saying they were together for 10 months and he asked her to get married. So if you could imagine how I don't get angry. I was livid. I mean, livid. I threw the phone.

Molly (55:11)

Oh, yeah.

Susan (55:12)

Threw the phone across the room, packed up my bag that I had there and basically left and didn't even give him a chance to talk. I got into my car and went to work. God, I was so pissed. Of course he called me. I blocked him. He called me, emailed me, leaving me messages in the blocked mailboxes that you can do on the iPhone. Filled up my mailbox that day. I just had nothing to say to him. And I got done work. And of course he shows up. He gets done at 3. So he was at my house at 3:15, crying, screaming, yelling, saying, you know, not mad that I opened his phone, but mad that this Mara person is real and that he was so sorry. He felt so bad for lying about it. He said it's been eating him alive. He's been living with this guilt. Why he doesn't. Oh, yeah, it's why he's so sick and why he doesn't eat, he doesn't sleep. And on his knees, like literally dropped to his knees. So he told me that he never met this person, Mara. They had a long distance relationship because she was in the army and they had a lot in common because they both killed people for a living. That was his story, that they only talked.

Molly (56:22)

Oh, my God.

Susan (56:23)

Yeah. Because she killed people in the army over in Afghanistan or wherever she was stationed at that point. She was in Afghanistan for a while. I'm like, so you never met her? He's like, we never met. So what did I do? I went back to Facebook messenger and still had Mara in my list.

Samantha (56:38)

I was gonna say, yeah, message her, hey, girly.

Susan (56:41)

I did.

Samantha (56:42)

And she got some questions.

Susan (56:43)

She wasn't very nice at first because he heard her as well. But they did never meet. She said the same thing, that they never met.

Molly (56:50)

Okay.

Susan (56:52)

So I did some research. I got her first and last name. Cause I was able to track her. She gave me her phone number and she was married and that's why they never met.

Molly (57:03)

Oh, so she's having like an, like a phone affair with me.

Susan (57:08)

So she catfished him.

Molly (57:09)

Kind of.

Susan (57:09)

Kind of?

Molly (57:10)

Oh, yeah.

Susan (57:12)

And he even admitted that, like, she was just playing games with me. So I'm like, do you know she's married? He's like, she's not married. And I'm like, she's married. So I. We. He didn't know. He didn't even know.

Samantha (57:21)

Oh, he probably hated that.

Susan (57:23)

His ego got so then he didn't know for the next couple weeks. Her and I were talking and he was still talking to both of us. So it was like constant lying, constant screenshotting of, he's lying to her, he's lying to me. And then we're both like ganging up on him. Why? I don't know. Like, this was my time to run. And I kind of wish I did run because she loved him and wanted to be with him. I'm like, but. Cause she was leaving.

Samantha (57:48)

She actually did.

Susan (57:49)

She was like, they were really in love for Real. They talked for a year and a half over the Internet, and they fell in love. And she was ready to leave her husband for him.

Samantha (57:59)

She knew about you because she wrote to you a long time ago. So was she upset that he was still pursuing you, or she was like, that's okay.

Susan (58:06)

Well, he lied to her and told her that him and I broke up at that point, and he never put our pictures on Facebook again. Like, so many red flags, like, looking back.

Molly (58:15)

But why would she message you? Wouldn't she be afraid that if she messaged you that you would go back to her husband?

Susan (58:21)

That's why she changed. Said that she lived in Colorado.

Molly (58:25)

Oh, so you couldn't find.

Susan (58:26)

So I asked her about that. I said, you live in Colorado? No, she lives, like 10 miles away from where we live. So he thought she lived far away. He thought right then at that point that she was in Germany, but she wasn't.

Samantha (58:38)

Busted.

Susan (58:39)

Yeah. So.

Samantha (58:40)

Oh, she's not even in the army.

Susan (58:43)

It turns out she's. She works. She's HR at a company. She's not even in the army. Never was in the army. Yeah. So I went to her thinking that he made up the whole army nonsense. You know what I mean? Like, I thought maybe that was just his story to me, but that just was her story to him, so she didn't have to meet him instead of saying she was married, that she was away.

Samantha (59:04)

They deserve each other, honestly.

Susan (59:05)

Well, they're not together. He destroyed her, too. Like, he did horrible things to her. So I don't want to get into her because she's not a bad person necessarily. She just was in a bad situation, and turns out she was like 300 pounds. And she just needed some attention. And she got it. Got it from Karen.

Molly (59:26)

She was not confident in herself and was seeking it.

Susan (59:30)

Yeah. So I don't. I don't really blame her. I don't think she was. I don't think she did anything to me, necessarily.

Samantha (59:37)

It's not the same.

Susan (59:37)

Yeah, she was there before I was. You know, honestly, they. They met like. Like she said 10 months before I met him, or they started talking, so. But he never stopped talking to her. And he admitted that to me, you know, crying, of course. Always crying. So I broke up with him again, and I did ask him to leave. And I said, I'm going to call the police this time, even though you're not hurting me right now, I'm going to call the police just to get you to stay away from me. And he said, if you call the police, I'm the only one walking out alive. So here comes the whole I'm a big badass again. Like, I'm like, wait, what? How would you do that? You call them. I'm going to call the police. They're going to walk in here and then they're going to die. Oh, yeah, I. I can call one person to come and scrub the scene. Don't mess with me. Okay, so of course I didn't call the police. But he did leave and I did block him. I actually got a new phone number.

Samantha (60:28)

Girls.

Susan (60:29)

I got a new phone number. So he couldn't even leave me voicemails anymore.

Molly (60:33)

Good for you.

Susan (60:34)

And I got a new email address as well. No, but it didn't last for long because he showed up at my house a couple nights later. I. You ready for this? I was sound asleep, all my doors locked, and I woke up with him sitting on my bed.

Molly (60:47)

What? No, stop.

Susan (60:49)

He broke into. He broke into one of my windows while I was sound asleep.

Susan (60:55)

No.

Molly (60:55)

That's fucking weird.

Susan (60:57)

So my. My fear changed a little bit at that time. Like, that was a different level for me and I had nowhere to turn. Like, who do I trust? Like, he even said that there's cops that are bad. Like I might get the right cop that shows up that that will help me and not help you. Like, wait, what? He had me all kinds of twisted up, but him sitting on my bed that night was. Was terrifying. And of course his face is pressed up against my face telling me how awful I am again, how ugly I am, how stupid I am. He said, you own mother didn't even love you. How can I love you? And you're disgusting and your body's disgusting. Like right in my face, just like talking and talking like a psychopath.

Molly (61:37)

I hate him.

Susan (61:37)

Yeah, I pretty much hate him as well. But I didn't. I still loved him at that point, which is crazy.

Molly (61:43)

Well, you can't help.

Susan (61:44)

That's.

Molly (61:45)

That's. That's like. I don't think that's crazy. I think that's totally. I get it.

Samantha (61:49)

The good times were incredible and the bad times were horrible. And your brain just tries to make sense of it the best that it can. Like, you're not supposed to be in that position. We're not built for that.

Susan (62:00)

Right. I'm definitely not built for that. I. I didn't handle things well. We were in a cycle of like, me constantly breaking up with him and him constantly being the victim. It was non stop. I was an awful person. You know, I was unlovable like, there was just. And I would say, good. Well, then just walk away. Like, I would always say, okay, just go, then, and leave me alone. You hate me. I'm ugly. I'm stupid. Oh, I didn't mean that. You know that. It's just part of my job to be mean to people and to get what I want.

Samantha (62:29)

I just love you so much that I got so angry. It's because I've never loved anyone as much as you. Like those kinds of things, like, exactly. Just twists it all.

Molly (62:39)

Such a manipulation.

Susan (62:41)

Oh, for sure. I mean, I was definitely manipulated. Like, I didn't even recognize myself. If we're being honest. I got to a point where I was isolating myself. I would just be by myself, and I wouldn't want to talk to anybody or I would lie. Oh, we're so happy. Kieran's so great. He's the, you know, the best. And blah, blah, blah. And it was all a lie. Like, I don't know why I lied to people. It didn't make any sense, looking back, like, why I. I made him out to. I put him up on this pedestal, you know? Like, oh, he's the best, you know?

Molly (63:10)

That's so common. Yep.

Susan (63:13)

So he had a job, right? He said he was away for the weekend in New York City. And when Sunday night came around, he invited me over. He said he had a really rough weekend. He had to do a lot of bad things over the weekend. And so I went there, and I get there, and there's. Oh, Jesus, right? There's a bulletproof vest dangled over his kitchen chair. There's a gun on the table. There's bullets on the table, and his combat boots are out.

Molly (63:37)

And I'm like, oh, he's so full of shit. Shut up. Right?

Susan (63:40)

And I'm right. And if I would have, like, talked to somebody with some common sense and told them these things, they would have told me what you just said, you know? But I didn't. I, like, kept it to myself, but it was threatening. I felt threatened. Yeah, like. And, yeah, I bet you.

Samantha (63:54)

And, yes, you're horrified.

Susan (63:56)

I'm like, can you put the gun away at least? You know, bro?

Molly (63:59)

Yeah. Don't be fucking weird.

Susan (64:01)

Come on. It's not loaded. I'm like. But there's bullets sitting right next to it. Like, I don't like guns myself, personally. So I was on edge that night. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

Molly (64:09)

I don't freaking blame you.

Samantha (64:11)

The whole mafia thing is such a great alibi because you don't know how it works. It's scary and intimidating.

Molly (64:18)

You can't confirm it.

Susan (64:20)

Right.

Samantha (64:20)

There's just no. Anything he wants to use it for, he can. And you're scared and feel in the dark like it's a.

Susan (64:29)

Right.

Samantha (64:29)

The smart alibi for a.

Susan (64:31)

Like, yeah.

Samantha (64:36)

Sorry.

Susan (64:37)

But he was telling me that he was selling one of his cars because he had multiple automobiles. And he was going through his pictures and he's like, oh, here's my. My black Mercedes. And I'm like, it came right back to me like, oh, the one that you were in the car accident with when I first met you? Yeah. He's like, look, he's like, yeah. I'm like, the one that got totaled. And he's like, what? He's like, the.

Molly (65:01)

He didn't remember his lie.

Susan (65:02)

He said, no, a tow truck bumped into it while it was towing another car in my parking lot and just ripped off the back bumper. And I'm like, what? And I'm thinking, his daughter got surgery and I'm thinking how upset I was over that whole. It was terrible. Like, his daughter had two surgeries that week. Like, life threatening surgery. She was in the icu. And he's like, you're all mixed up in your head. He's like, you're nuts. And I'm like, oh, gaslighting. Oh, yeah, for sure. I never understood what gaslighting was until I met him. And I broke up with him, of course, because I was upset for him lying. And he talked me off of that ledge again. And here's the big. Here's the big moment. I went to his place again. And the reason why I went to his place a lot is because of my boys. Like, I didn't want them around him that much.

Molly (65:56)

So I don't blame you at all.

Susan (65:58)

Yeah, I mean, I hated going to his place, but it was better than him showing up at mine, which he always did. So I'm outside of his house, sitting in my car. He came out and sat in my car again. He looks like he was crying all day, like, what's going on? He's like, I can't breathe. I'm having panic attacks. He's like, I had to do something really, really, really horrific this weekend for he would call it his job. And I said, what did you have to do? So remember I told you about the woman, Alexa, that he was in the wrestling with and they trained with? Well, she was also part of this organization. She was also from Russia. And that weekend, one of his punishments to get out of this organization was to kill her. And he killed her. And I'm sitting.

Molly (66:43)

What, he told you he killed her?

Susan (66:45)

I'm sitting in my car looking at him. He's crying, hardly breathing, like, trying to catch his breath. And I'm like, what? And he was like, I had no other choice. And so, of course I have questions. How did you do it? What do you mean, how did I do it? How do you think I did it? I don't know. Did you pull out her teeth? I have no idea. Like, would.

Molly (67:05)

Right? Like what? Explain this more to me.

Susan (67:08)

So he said that he went to her apartment and he shot her point blank. And he's like, she begged me not to. And he's like, I've known her since I was a teenager. Do you know how hard this is on me? I cannot believe they made me do this. But if they tell me to jump, I say, hell, hi.

Samantha (67:23)

And your brain, like, yeah. What are you thinking?

Susan (67:26)

Well, I'm thinking, well, what if they find her body? And he's like, oh, I told you before, I made one phone call, and they come and they scrub the scene. And I'm like, doesn't she have family? He's like, yeah. So I'm like, so. Of course, I had a friend who wrote a book in Philadelphia. He ran with the police. So he said that Alexa lived in Philadelphia. So I asked him, I said, is there anybody missing by the name of Alexa in Philadelphia? I asked him, like, a week later, and he said he checked his database and couldn't find anybody. So I didn't want to get into it with him, you know, of course, because he.

Samantha (68:03)

Yeah, but are you like, are you. I think I would hear that and be like, oh, God, I'm next. Well, is he gonna. Or I'd be. I don't know. Did you ever think about calling?

Susan (68:15)

Who. Who was I gonna call?

Samantha (68:17)

I would be. Were you scared to call the police?

Susan (68:19)

Of course. I mean, if he could kill someone that he's known since he was a teenager, that he respected, I mean, every time he talked about Alexa, it was high regards. She was an amazing person. You know, cancer survivor. She was a mom. Like, you know, she was this great, beautiful human being. She was very intelligent. She was a big part of the organization. Like, in my head, I'm like, why would they want to kill one of their own? It didn't make any sense to me.

Molly (68:43)

Did you. Was there, like, did you believe him? Or were it, like, in the back of your mind? Were you like, yeah, right. But I'm Going to trust him just in case, or. Or, like, what were you actually, like, truly, truly feeling?

Susan (68:54)

Well, I was scared.

Molly (68:55)

Did you think he was full of bull?

Susan (68:57)

I was a little scared because the way he was, like, shaking uncontrollably, like, obviously something had happened, or he was just a really good actor. I'm not sure, but he was a victim here. Like, he had to do this. Like, he had to do something so terrible to get out of this. And I'm like, so, are you out of the organization? He's like, not yet. He's like, I don't know. They're gonna. It's up to them. I'm like, well, I. And my question kept being over and over. Why would they have you kill her if she was such a great person? Like, why? He's like, they just want to test my loyalty.

Molly (69:30)

The math ain't math himself.

Susan (69:32)

So then he's like, I shouldn't even have told you about any of this, you know? You know, I could get killed. You would be killed if somebody found out that I told you what I do. I'm like, wait, what? So fear again changed for me, and of course, we broke up again. And I begged him, like, I was crying, begging, begging, begging for him to let me go. And I said, I don't want to be a part of this anymore. So I go home and I call my Aunt Rose, and my Aunt Rose says, oh, my God, Susan, you're an idiot. He told you that story because he's not from Russia. She's like, I bet you he's lying and this is his way out. I'm like, what do you mean? He's trying to get out of the organization, so he's going to make any lie to you. I'm like, no way. Why would he say he killed one of his friends? To me, it didn't add up. I didn't believe my aunt, so I was mad at her for even saying that. At this point, I did believe him, probably like 70%, because his story was so consistent. And his whole life revolved around this Russian mafia. Like, everything revolved around it. Every one of our conversations, every day, he had some. He would leave me, oh, I have to take this call. It's. He would say the name of some guy that used to call him, and he would walk away, like, who was he talking to? What was he doing when he was gone all weekend on a job? Like. Like, why would he. Like, I. To me, like, it was just ridiculous lying. So I believed it, because who could make this shit up? Like, that was my whole thing. Like, why. And why would somebody make this up? Why would you want to be such a bad person to somebody that you say you love and that you want to spend the rest of your life with? So it didn't add up. But his phone, sometimes he would show me, like, oh, look. And it would be like a text all in Russian. Like, the Russian Alphabet. I'm like, what am I looking at? I don't. I don't speak Russian. Like, I think he was just, like, showing me that he's, like, legit.

Molly (71:23)

It was just, like, gibberish.

Samantha (71:25)

Yeah, because people who are from another country show you their phone to prove.

Molly (71:29)

It was like a chocolate chip cookie recipe, but in Russian.

Susan (71:32)

Right, right.

Samantha (71:33)

He probably just put it in Google Translate.

Susan (71:36)

Yeah, exactly.

Molly (71:37)

That's all it was. So this freaking guy.

Susan (71:40)

The abuse change that escalated at this point. He came to my apartment in the middle of the day and literally drugged me out of my apartment, all the way down the walkway, and threw me into his car. And that day, when I went inside, I had bruises. That's when I was telling you. All over my arms. And they were all his five fingerprints from dragging me. I mean, he forcefully drug me a hundred yards and threw me into his car because he was mad at me for breaking up with him about the whole killing Alexa thing. And he would do this thing where he would take two fingers and stick them into my ribs. And I'm not sure if anyone has ever done that to you, but it is so painful.

Molly (72:21)

That's what my dad used to do to us when we were kids. Like this. And they would just, like, jam it right in, like, your sternum.

Susan (72:26)

That is so painful.

Molly (72:28)

Yep.

Susan (72:28)

And. And that's what he did to get.

Samantha (72:30)

Oh, God.

Susan (72:31)

Yeah. So his arm. He was. It's awful. I mean, it's like. Like, you cry, like, instantly. The pain is excruciating. And he knew techniques like that on your body, like pressure points that would just paralyze you and knock you to the ground, and that's what he would use on me. So I always say he didn't hit me. And it's. But he did hurt me a lot in those kind of ways. So August of the next year comes because it. The whole year was just brutal. From January to August of 20 of this year, in August, we fought like crazy, and I would not see him. I went to the beach for the week, and he was mad about that. I didn't tell him where I was going. So he sends me a text, and I'm going to read this to you because this text is what changed everything.

Samantha (73:14)

This is August of this year, so not that long ago.

Susan (73:17)

Yes, the text says. Okay, then I'll just say it. I had a nervous breakdown because I shot and killed a child that was the same age as my daughter. And it gave me such horrible nightmares and caused so much anxiety and guilt that I felt completely apart. So now under stressful situations, that's all that crosses my mind. I'm a loser and a huge piece of shit. I'm a terrible person. Okay. So I get this text and I'm like, what? You killed and shot a kid? So of course I respond to him. And he gets more into detail. He had to do it for the job, but he hasn't been able to function ever since he had to do that. So this was like years ago. Like when his.

Susan (74:03)

I think the kid was 11 or 13, I forget. Not a teenager yet.

Samantha (74:08)

But he's saying that this is why he is the way he is justifies all of his other behaviors.

Susan (74:13)

Yes, because the organization forced him to do this. So after he sent that text three days later, I was with my Aunt Rose. We had dinner and we were painting and he called me 87 times. We counted while I was with her for like three hours. He couldn't text me cause I had him blocked. So he was just calling with like, caller unknown. Oh my God, unknown number and leaving me messages. So I had to go home and drop my car off because I was getting it inspected so I could walk back from the car dealer. So I got into my apartment and he was outside my door within half an hour even though my car wasn't in the lot. So he must have been following me or watching me to know that I was home. So my aunt said, if he shows up, send me a text. I will call the police. Let's just stop this madness today. So that's what happened. He was outside. I answered the phone, I said, I'm not letting you in. I'm afraid of you. I said, this has to stop. You know, you're a monster. You kill kids, you kill your friends.

Molly (75:14)

Oh my God.

Susan (75:14)

Like, I'm not going to deal with this anymore. And he's like, I'm going to kill myself if you don't come out. I can't live without you. He's crying. I talked to him on the phone for about a half an hour, and I finally texted my aunt while I was on the phone with him. I said, call 911.

Susan (75:30)

So the police came and my. My aunt told 911 that he would kill the police. So, of course, what happened was they literally sent out, like, the SWAT team.

Molly (75:44)

Oh, my God.

Susan (75:46)

Yeah. And it. She wasn't lying. I mean, it was all stuff that he had said. You know, if you call the police, I'm the only one walking out alive. So she gave the cops a warning of that. So they. There was, like, 12 cops had showed up, rifles drawn, shields up. I mean, it was. Yeah, it was like something out of a movie. So they apprehended him, took him to the police station. I was afraid, but I showed them the text that he had sent me saying that he killed a child just a couple days before, and they arrested him, and I pressed charges. I was proud of myself because it was.

Samantha (76:22)

I'm so proud of you.

Susan (76:23)

Yeah. It was a long time coming, and I was scared to death of my life. Like, you have no idea.

Molly (76:27)

I bet you were.

Susan (76:28)

I was scared.

Molly (76:29)

Cause what do you. At this point? What do you believe and what do you not? Like, you know what I mean?

Susan (76:33)

Exactly. So the police took me in their car, too, which I didn't understand. I was at the police station for, like, two and a half hours. So he was held overnight there in our local town. And then nobody bailed him out. Nobody bailed him out.

Samantha (76:49)

He is the mafia now.

Susan (76:50)

Yeah. And that's what.

Molly (76:52)

Where's your cleanup crew, buddy?

Susan (76:54)

The police officer called me because I told him about the Russian mafia. I didn't do it on record because they recorded it. I'm like, I don't want to say this on the record, so turn that off. And he was like, I bet you he's lying. I'm like, you have no idea. Like, a year and a half, he has stuck to this story, being in this organization, and he's like, oh, well, I guess we'll find out and see who shows up for him. So no one showed up.

Molly (77:16)

And nobody did.

Susan (77:17)

Nobody showed up. So the police were like, I don't think he's telling the truth. Because if he was really in the Russian mafia, he said, you'd probably be dead already. Number one.

Molly (77:26)

Yeah.

Susan (77:26)

And he's like.

Molly (77:28)

And he would be dead, too, because he done broke a bunch of rules.

Susan (77:32)

Right?

Samantha (77:33)

Yeah. He's not a good mobster.

Susan (77:35)

Right. Because real mobsters don't tell stories to little girls like me for sure.

Molly (77:39)

No, that's stupid.

Susan (77:41)

So he went to the big prison for three days. And I tracked it online, and I couldn't believe it. Like, where are these Russian dudes? Like, where is his Family, like, where are these people at that he always said he was talking to that always had his back? It was a little confusing for me. And then finally he got out. Three and a half days later, somebody bailed him out. And what did he do? He went home and called me, and I answered. And he was crying and telling me that I can't go through with this, that I have to drop the charges. And he would send me, like, chatgpts of how to recant your statement and the effects of, like, a witness, a victim, like, recanting her statement.

Samantha (78:22)

And are you. Where's your head at? Are you like, I'm done with this guy and I don't trust him anymore, or are you kind of still not.

Susan (78:29)

Sure at this point? I wasn't sure. Like, I said to him, where were your friends? Where are these people you work with? Oh, I didn't have my phone. My phone died. I didn't have any of their numbers. He's like, you don't understand. In this organization, we don't memorize numbers. What? Like, okay, okay.

Samantha (78:47)

They also would know if one of their people got arrested.

Susan (78:50)

They, you know, I don't know.

Samantha (78:52)

I would think.

Susan (78:53)

I don't. He wouldn't have gotten arrested if you that in that way, if he was in this. Like, people who were in the mafia don't do stupid shit like this. You know what I mean?

Molly (79:01)

Like, yeah, they're a little bit more discreet. Yes.

Susan (79:04)

For sure.

Molly (79:05)

Discreet. Yes.

Susan (79:06)

So what happened was I filed a pfa and they gave me a temporary pfa. And then I didn't show up to the hearing because he talked me out of it. So I didn't get the PFA in the beginning of September. Cause this all happened at the end of August. And then he had four preliminary hearings that kept getting continued because I didn't show up because he told me not to. So the fifth preliminary hearing, I showed up to because I got a paper in the mail for the first time saying that I had to be there. So I show up and I see him. I walk into this little room, and he's standing there, and he takes his phone out of his pocket, and he holds his phone up in the air. So I go into my bag to get my phone, and he texted me like, you better leave. You better leave. And I left. I left. I literally walked out of this courtroom. So the police officer saw me leave, which I'm lucky for that because he had called me later on in the day, and he was like, you're literally scared to death of this guy. I saw you leave today. I'm like, you did? Like, I thought I was gonna get in trouble. And he's like, no. And he said, what happened? I said. He texted me and told me to leave. And I took a screenshot of the text. I sent it to the police officer, and he got arrested again. He got arrested and put on. He got put on house arrest this time. And of course, he continued to talk to me. And I was stupid enough to engage with him. I even went to see him. I saw him with his ankle bracelet on, which is embarrassing. We actually carved pumpkins together Halloween week.

Molly (80:39)

What?

Susan (80:40)

I know. Like, go figure. He's like, bring a pumpkin and we'll carve it. And we never did anything like that. So of course I'm like, oh, maybe he's changing, or maybe he's gonna learn his lesson. Like, I'm such. Such a fool.

Samantha (80:50)

Well, did you think maybe there was a. Did you think maybe there's a world in which you can get back together?

Susan (80:57)

Not now, but at that point, yes. And I really.

Samantha (81:00)

Right at that point, yeah, for sure.

Susan (81:03)

And I was.

Samantha (81:04)

Because he still had his.

Susan (81:05)

His teeth around me. Yeah. I was still afraid. Honestly. That's the saddest part. To wake up in the morning and look out your window before you leave. It was, like, constant in the back of my head. Like, I have to be diligent, and I had to. You know. Diligent. I had to be careful. You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, it was tough. It was. It was. It was a hard time. And then so. So they did the preliminary hearing again, and I was subpoenaed. So I had to go. I had to testify. And the judge was like, you know what? I don't like this. I don't like even her little bit of a story about Russia. I don't like a man threatening a woman like this. I didn't even say anything about him hurting me. Like, I didn't even get that far because it was only supposed to only be about that night in question at that point. But I was trying to convey that I was afraid because of the whole year and a half that he claimed to be running with this organization. And the people that he would describe didn't sound like nice people, you know? So of course I was scared. I was even scared walking out of the courtroom, looking all over the place, like, looking for someone, like a sniper or something. It was ridiculous. Like, I watched way too much tv. So at that point, they sent him up to the Court of Common Pleas for A bail hearing. Because he violated his bail conditions by speaking to me. He wasn't allowed to speak to me at all. So I filed a PFA again. And I have a PFA in place now. But the bail judge, they were trying to throw him into jail, of course, for a couple months until his hearing in January. But he got put on house arrest again. So he has the ankle monitor on again right now at this point.

Samantha (82:43)

So when did that happen?

Susan (82:44)

That was November.

Susan (82:47)

The third Monday in November. So it was recent, we're talking, or the second.

Molly (82:51)

So we're talking, like just November?

Susan (82:53)

Less a month ago, yes.

Molly (82:55)

Wow. What?

Samantha (82:58)

And he hasn't reached out to you?

Susan (82:59)

No, not. That judge said. That judge said, if you even whisper or even think about her, you're going to jail, buddy. The day I came out of the bail hearing, I had a note on my car that said. It was typed, and it said, watch yourself, little lady.

Molly (83:12)

Oh, my God.

Susan (83:13)

I know. They checked.

Molly (83:14)

Wow.

Samantha (83:14)

He's unreal.

Susan (83:16)

They checked cameras and stuff, and they couldn't see who put it on there. So at the courthouse, someone did that to me.

Molly (83:22)

I mean, I don't take a house rocket surgeon.

Susan (83:25)

Right. It was one of his friends or something. Of course.

Molly (83:28)

Of course.

Susan (83:28)

And little lady was something that he would say, you know, it was so him. Like. Like dirt.

Molly (83:33)

He wanted you to know that it was him too.

Susan (83:36)

Yeah, probably.

Samantha (83:37)

Wait, so where. Where are we now? What do we know now?

Susan (83:39)

Okay, so that week, the week of the bail hearing, I actually hired a private investigator.

Molly (83:46)

Good for you.

Samantha (83:47)

Thank you.

Susan (83:48)

I should have done this.

Samantha (83:50)

I'm so excited for answers.

Susan (83:52)

I was at work, and I reached out to him while I was at work. I was doing some deep diving, and I found this. This private investigator out of Philadelphia. And I told him a little bit about the story. So the PI guy found it very quickly because I had a lot of information on Karen, like his date of birth, his address, his last address, you know, his ex wife's name. Like, I knew a lot, A lot. I should have done this so long ago, but the PI guy called me up two and a half hours later and gave me the. He couldn't believe. He was, like, laughing. He was like, I'm sorry that I'm laughing, but this is like the best story I think I've heard in months. And he's like, I hear some crazy stories and why people want to use me as an investigator. He found it out, even, like, last names, because I could not find his mom anywhere on the Internet because she had passed away. When he was 18. So I couldn't find her obituary. I couldn't find her last name. So I had no proof. And if you don't have proof, you have to believe what you're given. So everything that that man told me was a lie. He was not born in Russia. He was not born in Russia. His. His mom was born. Where was he born?

Samantha (85:01)

Like, Georgia. Around the corner.

Susan (85:02)

Georgia. His mom was born in Georgia. His mom's dad was born in Georgia. Like, five generations. All Georgians. All Georgians and all lie. So he told me he was in Russia until he was 12. And I remember I didn't mention. But one time I asked him how his parents met because his dad was a Native American. And I even researched that and found that out to be true. He said his dad was in the army and his dad was stationed in Russia. So right there, I should have been smart enough to know that America was not in Russia in the 70s, or ever, for that matter. If I was better at history, maybe I would have, you know, picked up on that. But he said his. His dad was stationed there. His mom lived there, and they. They had him and basically had him for the reason, the sole purpose to take over for his grandfather, which was his mom's dad, when he passed away. So there's no ties to Russia. Even his grandfather, who he said he worked for his whole life, who trained him his whole life to. To take over for him. His whole childhood was wrapped around this. Was born in Georgia, and he has a short little name that. From England. I mean, he was not a wrestler. He never, you know, traveled. Never even been to Russia. Unbelievable. It was all just a delusion, like a character that he performed for me, and I was still. I'll never understand why. Why you would do that to somebody. And when I found out that day at work, I almost died. Like, I was so many things. I was embarrassed. Literally so embarrassed. And in my head, like, why would somebody lie about this? Like, why would you say you killed someone when you didn't? Like, why would you say you have leukemia and you almost died from leukemia and you didn't.

Molly (86:51)

Yes.

Susan (86:51)

Like, it's like a mental illness. But I don't know. I don't know how he gets through life, to be honest. And I hope he never does this to anybody else, because it was just a nightmare, an absolute nightmare. And looking back at our entire relationship since the minute he told me was centered around that. Like, everything was centered around that. He held that over my head every day. And if he wasn't holding it over my head. I was holding it over my head. It never left my thoughts, ever. His stories were etched into my brain. Every move I made, every word I said, everything I did was centered around him being born in Russia and being a part of this terrible organization. I was really mad. I had a few days where I didn't sleep, I didn't eat. I just was so angry at so many things, and I couldn't stop playing things over and over and over in my mind and. And that's not healthy. But I actually see a therapist now, which I'm not. Not embarrassed to admit.

Molly (88:03)

And no way I. Everybody should go to therapy.

Samantha (88:07)

I love therapy.

Molly (88:08)

I love therapy.

Susan (88:09)

She said he's a textbook narcissist with delusions galore. Like, my therapist cannot even believe that someone could make up this story, let alone.

Susan (88:21)

Carry it out with someone like me. Like, the most normal. My life is so boring person. Like, I don't know. It just. It just didn't make any sense. And then it turns out that he never had leukemia. So we did. We did a deep dive and found out that because he had showed me pictures of him bald from the chemo and he looked really sick, but he had shaved his head in solidarity when his father was dying of cancer back in 2018. So that's when he said that he had leukemia in 2018.

Susan (88:51)

So somebody found that on Facebook. You know, he said he went to a university and had this big degree. It was a lie. He didn't go to that university. Seriously? Like, nothing. He said nothing even. Like, he would drive me past this big house that he said he lived in. He grew up in since he was 12. Not. He never lived there. I got his address, and it's a little shack around the corner. Like everything.

Susan (89:15)

Nothing. He was.

Samantha (89:16)

Did he have a job this whole time that you knew about in addition to his work in the Mafia or. Like, where was he going?

Susan (89:24)

Yes, he has a. He had a full time job Monday through Friday.

Molly (89:28)

Yes.

Susan (89:29)

Okay.

Samantha (89:29)

And then on the weekends, we don't know what he was doing. When he says he was murdering everyone.

Susan (89:34)

Yeah, when he alternated, he alternated.

Molly (89:37)

I mean, I'm glad he was lying kneecaps, like.

Samantha (89:40)

Yeah, I'm glad he wasn't doing it.

Susan (89:42)

What's he doing? Well, that's the big question. That's. That's more stories. No, seriously, that's like the. But I'll never know because I never plan on speaking to him again. So.

Molly (89:51)

Good for you, though.

Susan (89:52)

Do not. No, I think.

Samantha (89:55)

How are you doing?

Susan (89:57)

I'm Good. I'm good. I feel better now, getting. Saying it all. Because there's a lot of things I never.

Molly (90:03)

Good.

Susan (90:03)

Yeah. A lot of things I never really said out loud. No one ever took me seriously either.

Samantha (90:07)

It's also very different. Like, and this show, we try to stress this a lot. Like, hearing all of this at one time is very different than living it. And hearing even parts of it from the outside is very different than living it. Like, I know you unfortunately, can speak to this. And a lot of our listeners, I wish couldn't understand this, but they do. Just how foggy it is in the middle. It's so confusing in the middle. And every time you think you know something, they tell you the thing that just makes you doubt enough.

Molly (90:35)

Absolutely.

Susan (90:36)

Yep. And it was just.

Samantha (90:38)

It's. And I hope our everyone remembers that. Cause it's not.

Susan (90:41)

And it was all the. It was all the fake illnesses that kept us together, because that's when my heart went out to him. Like, he's so sick all the time and he's so sad and depressed. Like, I just think.

Samantha (90:54)

And you know why he used that? Because you survived cancer, right? And that really struck with you.

Molly (91:00)

Like, it's relatable. And so you. You feel closer to that person.

Susan (91:04)

You're right. Looking back now, of course. And my therapist has.

Susan (91:08)

She dug deep into it too. So it's. My relationship wasn't that great with my mom, and he knew that as well. And then when she passed, it was kind of like, you know, it was a really tough time. I was very vulnerable when I met him, and I think he knew unmet needs. He knew that too. Yeah, I think he.

Molly (91:24)

He.

Susan (91:24)

He preyed on that for sure.

Molly (91:26)

He sure did.

Susan (91:27)

My advice to anybody, male or female, is that if you get a gut feeling, go with it, because follow it.

Molly (91:33)

There is something real about femme tuition. It is real.

Susan (91:38)

Seriously, like, red flags. Especially when you have, like, a bouquet of red flags presented to you. Run.

Molly (91:44)

Like, it's not a circus.

Susan (91:45)

It's like, just run. Oh, my goodness.

Molly (91:48)

It's like, absolutely.

Susan (91:50)

Yeah. It's like that juice isn't worth that squeeze for sure. I just wish I would have walked away after that first car accident because I had that feeling in my stomach, like, right in the beginning, before I even met him.

Molly (92:02)

And you're like, ah, I'll let it go. What's his legal standing right now? He just has a.

Susan (92:09)

He's on ankle monitoring. Like, he has an ankle monitor on. So he's, you know, I guess, under.

Molly (92:15)

For how long?

Susan (92:15)

Well, his Next hearing is not until January, so until then.

Molly (92:19)

Well, at least he's. At least he's under lockdown until then. There's.

Susan (92:22)

Well, I had the pfa, too. Now it's in force. And that's. That's good until April 2nd. So I have a hard road ahead of me. I have to testify in the big court of common pleasure, and then I have to go to the PFA hearing. So, you know, I'm not looking forward to all this coming up.

Molly (92:37)

No, of course not, because he's.

Susan (92:39)

His lawyer. His lawyer is shark. And he was basically saying that it was all me. Like, that I was the one who caused all this. And I'm the one who kept hurting him and breaking up with him, but I didn't get to speak, so I never got to say how afraid I was. Oh, God. Yeah, it's so.

Samantha (92:57)

And you also have the receipts. Like, he messaged you some crazy things.

Molly (93:03)

What a dickstick. I hate him. Man, I. I'm so sorry you went through that. Just to care so much about someone, just to be totally lied to.

Susan (93:11)

That's.

Molly (93:12)

God, that sucks so bad.

Susan (93:13)

Yeah. And. And. And it wasn't, like, just one little lie when you tell something like that. It stems to, like, this huge umbrella of lies. And. And, you know, it hurt me the most. It hurt me the most when I discovered that he was not from Russia, is that he told me we were going to get married and be together forever. Like, from the beginning. He had no intentions, because how would that ever work? Like, how would we ever be together with his family and his daughters, with me thinking that he was from Russia? You know, that would come up exactly.

Molly (93:42)

Right. Like, of course.

Samantha (93:43)

Of course.

Susan (93:44)

Like, like, 100%. So everything was just a game? Like, it just doesn't make any sense what he got out of it, but.

Molly (93:51)

Incredible.

Susan (93:52)

Yeah. I'm glad. Just glad that I finally had the nerve to call the police. And I guess he'll get what he deserves at this point.

Samantha (94:00)

Oh, Susan, I can't believe how fresh this is. You have to keep us updated.

Molly (94:05)

Yeah, we. I need updates, for sure. Will you tell us what happens, like, in January?

Susan (94:09)

Like, sure, of course.

Molly (94:11)

I would love to know. We are rooting for you to the.

Samantha (94:13)

Extent that you're comfortable, but, like, we're in your circle.

Susan (94:17)

Thank you.

Samantha (94:17)

We're so here for you.

Molly (94:20)

Well, we're gonna make sure.

Samantha (94:21)

And now you have your life back.

Susan (94:22)

I do.

Samantha (94:23)

I do.

Susan (94:23)

And I'm so excited for Christmas. And we didn't. I didn't celebrate Christmas last year because of Him. Christmas last year was just terrible. So it's this year I'm bringing Christmas back and being happy and surrounding myself with everyone that I love and who loves me. So it's good.

Molly (94:40)

Hundred percent, yes.

Molly (94:54)

So how about.

Samantha (94:56)

That's a lot, Susan?

Molly (94:58)

My very first thought is. And I'm always thinking about, like, what the audience might think. I think that's just my PI Brain. And I feel like my very first thought was, it would be so easy for anybody in the outside looking in to say, how could you ever. First of all, how could you ever believe this guy was in the mob? Like, how. But it's that fear, and that is so common for abusers to use, is that manipulation of the fear.

Susan (95:24)

Right.

Samantha (95:24)

And he roped her in, groomed her, love bombed her, whatever you want to call it. So by the time she found out about his mob activity, you know, she was in love with him. I wrote down because she said I was in love with someone I was terrified of. And I don't think you can know what that feels like unless you've been through it. So it changes your reality when you're that afraid of the person. Yes.

Molly (95:47)

It changes your reality.

Susan (95:48)

Also.

Samantha (95:50)

She was so isolated. That one friend who was like, I can't be part of this. I was conflicted about that because I understand being a friend. That's like, I don't feel safe in this situation. I don't want to isolate you, but I also have to protect my family, protect myself.

Molly (96:05)

Yes.

Samantha (96:06)

That's so hard. And we do talk about that, where it's like, of course we want you to reach out to your friends and check in on them to the extent that is safe for you. So. And it was. I think she had compassion for that friend, too, as sad as it is. But when once she was isolated, her reality got even weirder. Like, all she knew was what this man was telling her. And eventually, she also was like, I didn't recognize myself. Like, I do think that when you're in it, you're really foggy. You really don't. You're not in your right mind.

Molly (96:33)

Right.

Samantha (96:33)

She thought he was gonna get the. I looked it up. What was it called? Whatever Russian for brotherhood is.

Molly (96:40)

Oh, the mob. The mafia thing.

Samantha (96:42)

That he was a Russian Mafia of Philadelphia.

Susan (96:45)

Why can't I find it? Oh.

Samantha (96:48)

Well, he wasn't part of it.

Molly (96:49)

You do a really good Russian.

Samantha (96:50)

I probably know more about it than he does from one Google search, but, yeah, she thought they were gonna come after her.

Molly (96:58)

Yeah. And that must be really scary, especially when you're. That's the thing, is that you. So now we're talking about isolation, we're talking about fear, we're talking about the obligation and the guilt. That's the fog that we talk about. Fear, obligation and guilt. This is textbook manipulation and abuse.

Samantha (97:14)

I also thought about something we haven't talked about in a while, but comes up a lot. Remember our illusory truth effect?

Molly (97:21)

Yes, yes.

Samantha (97:22)

It's just the idea that the more.

Molly (97:24)

You hear something, it becomes more and more true.

Samantha (97:27)

And it's not like a discipline, self awareness thing. It's like science.

Molly (97:31)

Yeah.

Samantha (97:32)

Women in stem and like. Because there were definitely moments where he was saying such horrible things to her constantly. And you do go like, oh my gosh, why? How could you put up with that? And it's like, because she heard it enough times in a really vulnerable place after her mom had died, when she, I mean, survived cancer, like all kinds. She's so vulnerable. And eventually you believe it.

Molly (97:54)

And scientifically, your brain really starts to believe the thing that you hear the most. Which is why, for instance, on my platform, I talk about, oh, the positive. What do you call them? The positive affirmations, the self affirmations that we're supposed to do every day. And some people are like, oh, that's kind of stupid. But it's a real thing. That's a real science. So if you have. If you're telling yourself every single day you are beautiful, you're whatever, you're going to start to believe it. It's the same with manipulation and abuse. That's what abusers use. They continuously tell you these things that make you feel fearful or whatever it is. And over time you really just start to believe.

Samantha (98:30)

It just becomes true and it's easier to appease them. I was thinking about, like, I've had healthy breakups and they are a pain in the butt. Like, breakups in general are so hard.

Molly (98:43)

Now imagine, could you imagine untie so much emotionally and otherwise add to it.

Samantha (98:47)

The mafia of the Philadelphia Russians and.

Molly (98:51)

You feel like they can come after you.

Samantha (98:53)

You don't have your friends the way you used to. I mean, it is a lot easier to compromise your boundaries, compromise your values and just be like, I'm gonna keep him at arm's length and just try to survive.

Molly (99:04)

Yes.

Samantha (99:05)

And I get why she feels now ashamed, but I hope that telling her story here reminds her how normal it is, because it really is.

Molly (99:16)

And can we. The. I know we did a trigger warning in the beginning for the body. The body shaming that really Hit me hard, because as someone who has been body shamed my whole life for something totally different because of my size, you know, I was £300 for 40 years, so I already know how hard that is. But imagine it's something like your breast cancer and the. That one of the main parts of your body that makes you feel feminine are your breasts.

Samantha (99:44)

And that, the world tells you, is what makes you desirable as a woman.

Molly (99:47)

Yes, exactly. And then for this person that is supposed to, quote, unquote, love you, basically tear you down for the fact that you had your breasts removed. That you don't, you know, that you look like a boy or teenage boy or whatever. I just think that is the ultimate lowest form of degradation and humiliation. And it is. It's absolutely disgusting.

Samantha (100:10)

It's disgusting.

Molly (100:12)

I can't even imagine how that made her, like, how strong is she for that? And being able, being brave enough, being willing to share that part of her story is just incredible to me. And it doesn't matter what your body, you should never be shamed for it, period. But to go through something that traumatic and that was the result of it was having a double mastectomy. Just to be.

Samantha (100:34)

Have it used.

Molly (100:35)

Just to have it. Yeah. Just to have it weaponized against you is awful.

Samantha (100:38)

I would also classify it as sexual harassment. The way he was, like, forcing her to do something that was sexual and vulnerable. Even if it, you know, like, I think we can really expand our definition of what abuse and trauma is, and that is very much included. I mean, it was every single woman listening, every single person listening. If you're decent.

Susan (101:03)

If you're decent was.

Samantha (101:05)

I mean, it's just crushing. And there's Hard to understand.

Molly (101:08)

And for a man, I. I don't. I fail to believe that, like, anybody could argue. Well, he's a man. He doesn't really understand the concept.

Samantha (101:17)

Oh, he understands.

Molly (101:19)

I think, as a human. Yes, you do.

Susan (101:21)

That's why he did it.

Molly (101:22)

There's no. Exactly. That's why he did it, because he understands. He wanted to hurt her. And also, I feel like that humiliation and using her body against her was a way for him to remain in control. Because if he's willing to say those things, that makes you even more scared of him, Right?

Samantha (101:39)

Yeah.

Molly (101:40)

He is diabolical. Like, if you're. If someone's willing to say those things and use that against you, what the hell else are they willing to do?

Samantha (101:46)

Yes, totally. It was also just the constant reminder of, like, you're not gonna do any better than this. Nobody's gonna want you. So you have to stay with me.

Molly (101:54)

And make people reminding you that you are nothing without him.

Samantha (101:57)

Definitely a narcissist.

Molly (101:59)

And he'll take a rocket surgeon to.

Samantha (102:00)

Bring him out and gaslighting. And he insane. I mean, insane. And I feel for her because I think coming out of that, having to reevaluate your entire. Like, I was re. I was thinking about her behavior as if he was in the mob, and then finding out that he's not, and then having to, like, go through the whole story again, being her, it really shakes you up. And it's been. It's like a recent story. So we're gonna. We're gonna check in with her.

Molly (102:26)

Yeah. I'm gonna want updates from her. And I just. My thought is, like, knowing what we all have experienced in our past dating lives and the experiences that we've had with others and then now moving forward from that kind of pain and trauma, how hard that must be. How do you overcome that? And that's why we always say, seek therapy. Like, talk to someone about it. Learn more about.

Samantha (102:51)

I love therapy.

Molly (102:52)

Learn more about what's out there, and learn more about the help available to you. But also, that's why we appreciate so much when our guests share these stories, because everybody's like, oh, my God, that's crazy. Like, no way. And you do not realize how there's. There's gonna be someone out there who says, oh, my gosh, the same thing happened to me. I thought I was alone.

Samantha (103:12)

Well, that makes me think if anyone feels comfortable and has maybe a similar experience of dating again after a mastectomy or after any kind of health change in your body that you feel is vulnerable and you're scared to share with a partner. I think that's probably a lot more common than we think.

Molly (103:30)

Yes.

Samantha (103:31)

And.

Samantha (103:32)

We'Ve got Spotify comments. You can comment right on the episode. I hope that you can maybe find connection, advice, support from other people who have been in that experience, because I get it. She's like, after that experience.

Samantha (103:47)

I wouldn't want to touch a dating app ever.

Molly (103:50)

100.

Samantha (103:51)

I still. Sometimes I'm like, I don't think I.

Molly (103:53)

Want to touch a teenage hell.

Samantha (103:55)

But then I go on and I find some. There's hope, guys. There's hope.

Molly (103:59)

There's hope.

Samantha (104:00)

We're not all a fake mobster.

Molly (104:03)

A lot of them are not fake mobsters, but dogfish. Yeah.

Samantha (104:07)

Yeah. Oh, I love her, and I love you guys. I love Patreon.

Molly (104:12)

Thank you so much for. For listening to our show. Thank you to our Patreon. Thank you for sharing our show on your social media. Because when you share it, other people that might not have otherwise found the Dating Detectives find that sense of community that you guys create when you share these stories that make other people feel less alone. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. We appreciate you so much.

Samantha (104:32)

And thank you, Susan, for sharing everything with us. Not easy. If you want want to send a story, you can email us Investigate The Dating Detectives podcast.com Anything Else to Tell the beautiful world?

Molly (104:47)

I am. I am. No, this is a lot. This freaking guy.

Samantha (104:51)

I know.

Molly (104:52)

Anyways, take care of each other. Thank you guys for listening. And as always, trust your.

Molly (105:04)

Sa.