The Stalker: Part 1

Summary

The Dating Detectives – Episode: "The Stalker: Part 1"

Release Date: January 27, 2025

Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz & Hanna Anderson

---

Introduction

In the premiere of "The Stalker: Part 1," hosts Mackenzie Fultz, a professional Private Investigator, and Hanna Anderson, a comedian, delve into the harrowing experiences of Carrie, a single mother who found herself entangled in a terrifying stalking scenario. This episode, released during Stalking Awareness Month, aims to shed light on the subtle and overt red flags that can indicate predatory behavior in the dating world.

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Setting the Stage: Stalking Awareness Month

Mackenzie (00:39): "It's January, and that means it's Stalking Awareness Month."

Hanna (00:58): "Thanks to January being Stalking Awareness Month, it's an appropriate time to contribute to the cause and help these people get the help they need."

The hosts emphasize the importance of recognizing stalking behaviors, highlighting the lack of public discourse and education on the subject.

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Introducing the Guest: Carrie's Story

Hanna (01:34): "We have a tale for you today, and I feel like this hit home for me a lot."

Mackenzie (02:03): "This is a little bit of a different one. But it's so important because just like you said, Hanna, we don't really talk about stalking enough."

Carrie's narrative begins with her background as a single mother who had taken a hiatus from the dating scene after a troubling relationship in 2016. In the spring of 2022, seeking a fresh start, she decided to venture back into online dating using Facebook Dating.

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The Initial Encounter: Meeting Jack

Carrie (05:12): "So, this whole story began back in the spring of 2022. I decided to jump back into the dating situation, and I thought, this is going to be my time. I'm going to meet my person."

Carrie recounts meeting Jack through Facebook Dating. Their initial interactions seemed promising, but subtle red flags began to emerge early on.

Hanna (22:15): "His temper is kind of rising a little bit because there's traffic."

Mackenzie (22:23): "Oh, red flag."

Jack's behavior during their first meetings raised concerns. Despite appearing charming, his sudden displays of affection—like sending pictures of engagement rings shortly after their first date—were unsettling.

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Escalation of Stalking Behaviors

By early October 2022, Carrie's interactions with Jack took a dark turn. After expressing disinterest in continuing the relationship, Jack's responses became increasingly erratic and threatening.

Carrie (26:03): "He starts crying and saying, 'I'm done with women. I've been hurt so much.'"

Hanna (39:13): "So now he's trying to convince you to not."

Despite Carrie's attempts to set boundaries, Jack's harassment intensified. He began leaving threatening voicemails and sending aggressive texts.

Carrie (33:46): "All I'm going to say is one thing. Big mistake for messing with me and getting my account disabled. Payback's a bitch. And believe me, you'll get it."

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Hosts' Advice: Handling Stalking Situations

Throughout Carrie's recounting, Mackenzie and Hanna provide actionable advice for listeners who might find themselves in similar predicaments.

Hanna (39:13): "Always call the cops, even if it's something stupid. Just for the record."

Mackenzie (40:22): "Write it down in a journal. Keep something that's like pen and paper. This date, this time, this happened."

The hosts stress the importance of documenting every incident, reporting to authorities promptly, and maintaining clear communication to establish boundaries.

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Cliffhanger Ending: A Glimpse into Continued Harassment

As Part 1 concludes, Carrie describes a spine-chilling incident where she notices suspicious activity around her home, indicating that Jack's harassment was escalating beyond digital boundaries. This unsettling turn leaves listeners eagerly anticipating Part 2, where the full extent of Jack's stalking and Carrie's coping mechanisms will be explored.

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Notable Quotes

• Hanna Anderson (00:58): "I hate saying excited. The reason I say excited is because I get amped up, and I feel like you're going to be just as pissed as I think we both are about it."

• Carrie (05:37): "I decided to jump back into online dating because it is honestly, online is a great tool to meet people."

• Hanna Anderson (39:13): "You feel stupid, but we have to."

• Mackenzie Fultz (40:22): "Keep something that's like pen and paper. This date, this time, this happened. That's your receipt."

---

Conclusion and Call to Action

As "The Stalker: Part 1" wraps up, Mackenzie and Hanna reinforce the necessity of community support and awareness. They encourage listeners to share their stories, seek help, and remain vigilant against predatory behaviors in the dating landscape.

Mackenzie (60:16): "As always, trust your femtuition."

Hanna Anderson (60:54): "We love you so much."

Listeners are invited to engage with the podcast community, share their experiences, and support victims of stalking by contributing to advocacy and educational initiatives.

---

Stay Tuned: Don't miss "The Stalker: Part 2," where Carrie continues her ordeal, and the hosts delve deeper into the psychological aspects of stalking and the systemic challenges in addressing such crimes.

Transcript

[Mackenzie]

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support. Hello.

[Carrie]

Hi.

[Host 2]

Happy Monday.

[Mackenzie]

Hello, y'all.

[Host 2]

I don't know where I am, what my name is, what day it is. I'm just like, what's going on?

[Mackenzie]

Do you know that it is January? Just in case you weren't sure what month you were in, it is January.

[Host 2]

I don't even know what year I'm in.

[Mackenzie]

Well, do you know what January is?

[Host 2]

Stalking Awareness Month.

[Mackenzie]

A plus. Yes, it is.

[Host 2]

Thank you.

[Mackenzie]

So you got something. You're here. You're good. You're good, girl.

[Host 2]

We have a tale for you today, and I feel like this hit home for me a lot. Like, I was fit to be tied hearing this story, and I'm excited for you guys to hear it. I. I hate saying excited. The reason that I say excited is because I get, like, amped up, and I feel like you're going to be just as. You're going to be just as pissed as I think we both are about it. So it's a lot. And I wonder how many of you have gone through the same thing. I bet it's more than we realize.

[Mackenzie]

Well, that's a huge thing that it is a two parter. We're going to talk a lot at the end of the second part about many aspects of the story, but definitely stalking. I mean, you know, we started this show, obviously, we came up with the word dogfish. That's like an extension of catfish, where you just never know who you're going on a date with. And a lot of times these stories, you take years to figure out or to find out that you're dating a dogfish.

[Host 2]

But yeah, like, you could be in deep, deep relationship with this person before you find out. And sometimes it's only two dates.

[Mackenzie]

Yep. This is a little bit of a different one. But it's so important because just like you said, mackenzie, we don't really talk about stalking enough, and it seems like it's happening way more than people know.

[Host 2]

Yeah, there's. And then there's. I feel like the stigma behind stalking has a lot to do with our lack of knowledge and lack of education of what constitutes stalking. So when I. I want you guys to listen really closely to our guest today and just, I want you to pick up on any red flags that you hear and take note of them, and I want to hear what you guys think about what were red flags to you in her story.

[Mackenzie]

So, yeah, our guest is awesome, Carrie. And at the end of the second part, we'll make sure we share ways that you can donate or help this cause, which we're still kind of figuring out. We haven't been able to do that in the past, but we're going to share that with you because, like you said, Mackenzie, I think people are going to want to get involved. Because we can't let this happen.

[Host 2]

No. And especially because January is talking awareness month. I feel like it's an appropriate time to contribute to the cause and help these people get the help. Our guests get the help that they need. And especially when it's something that's ongoing and there's no end in sight. And yeah, they. They need help. They need resources.

[Mackenzie]

This story is like a horror story.

[Host 2]

So just, you guys, seriously, hold on to your pants. Also, real quick, last night we had our Dating Detectives book club. So if you're not part of the patreon, it's only $5 a month. You can join us on Patreon. You get two bonus episodes a month. And we do book club. So we read a really cool book, and then we come together and talk about it, and we also just get together for other things. You have early access to merch, and so it's really amazing. And we're so grateful for all of you who popped on and who read this. Insane.

[Mackenzie]

It was actually really Little Secrets was the name of it. If you missed it, you should go. You should go read it. It'll take you, like, half a day. It's so quick.

[Host 2]

Join us on Patreon. We'll link that in the. In the show notes. And I think we should get into it. What do you think?

[Mackenzie]

I'm ready as I'll ever be.

[Host 2]

Carrie, take us away. Let's. Let's hear from Carrie. Okay, Carrie, we are. I'm excited to hear your story. I always say. Why do I always say I'm excited? I don't know that I'm excited. I'm probably not excited to hear this story, but will you please share your story? Take a.

[Mackenzie]

We're grateful that you're here. How about that? There we go.

[Carrie]

I am super grateful to be here, and thank you so much because it's been a long road, but I'm excited to get to this point because it's still continuing on. But no, like, it's.

[Host 2]

This is ongoing situation.

[Carrie]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It has not stopped. And.

[Host 2]

Oh, boy.

[Carrie]

That's why I was excited that Mackenzie, that you're a private investigator, because I was hoping that maybe you would give me some tips and tricks and things, because I. I have considered getting a private investigator.

[Host 2]

I want to hear your story, and then I can tell you, like, what. What I think might be best.

[Carrie]

So at. This whole story began back in the spring of 2022. I decided after basically six kind of not dating, not doing. Not being in that world, because I. The last guy I dated was in 2016. He was part of my church and thought he was a good guy, until one day he grabbed me in a bad way, and I was like, yeah, no, not doing that.

[Host 2]

Wait, first time he grabbed you bad, and you were like, I'm out.

[Carrie]

Yes. Oh, good.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Carrie]

Well, because I. I have divorced, and I had been married, and I was in a domestic violence situation.

[Host 2]

So you knew right away you were.

[Carrie]

Like, not going there. Not. Not doing that.

[Host 2]

Oh, I'm so sorry you went through that.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I'm so sorry.

[Carrie]

So after that, I decided. And I had started a single mom's ministry with my one church. And so it was.

[Mackenzie]

I love that.

[Carrie]

It was so awesome. It really. I felt like, again, I was in a situation where I was like, I don't understand why I'm in this situation. I mean, I do, because I left my husband. He was abusive, and I'm proud of myself now for doing that. Back then, it was a. A very scary road.

[Host 2]

It's hard to leave.

[Carrie]

It is hard to leave, especially as a Christian, when the church doesn't promote that and they don't want to really deal with real issues a lot of times. And I love the church. I love Jesus. I'm all the things, but. But, you know, it just. There's just things need to change. I'll just put it that way.

[Mackenzie]

We've had other people like you, and I love when it's people who are like, I. I've found a way to still stay connected to that community and that faith without while still being able to hold it accountable. That's, like, so important.

[Carrie]

It's so important. It's so important. So I had started the single moms ministry. I was starting a conference for single moms, and like I said, that guy grabbed me in a weird way, and especially because he was a church guy, you know, just didn't expect that kind of behavior. But, you know, my ex husband, he was supposed to be church guy, too, so, you know, it doesn't matter. These, like, you guys, I love you say. How you say dog. Fish. I love that term. You know, there's a lot of them out there, even in church. And so they're everywhere.

[Host 2]

Yes, they're all.

[Mackenzie]

All everywhere.

[Carrie]

All over. Yes. And so. So after my first single mom's event, I met another girl, and she was. She was dating a guy and then found out that he was married. And so.

[Host 2]

No.

[Carrie]

Yeah. So we're both these disillusioned girls and we're like, you know, let's just.

[Mackenzie]

Let's just start a coven.

[Carrie]

Yes. And so we started a year sabbatical and date each other.

[Mackenzie]

Good for you.

[Carrie]

And we just encourage each other that whole year. And so I decided to jump back into the dating situation, and I was like, I really was hopeful, and I just thought, man, this is going to be my time. I'm going to meet my person. And it all just took a very big turn.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, boy. So how old were you at this point? And you said you'd been divorced.

[Carrie]

Oh, gosh. I was around. Let me see. So I am 51 now, so 50, 49, 48, maybe, something like that. Okay.

[Mackenzie]

How old are your kids?

[Carrie]

I just have one son who is. He just turned 21. So. So here we are in the spring of 2022, decided to jump in. I use Facebook dating because I wasn't gonna pay for an app. And I thought, if anything, they always say, like, people who are getting together are sometimes 7 degrees away from your sphere. And so I thought, well, if I use Facebook dating, maybe a friend of a friend, you know, somebody. That kind of thing. And so, you know, it's your sphere. And oftentimes you can see who people's friends are, that kind of thing.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Carrie]

So I wasn't actively dating, but I was on there. You know, you start talking to people and you interact with some, you meet some. So that was the spring of 2022. Then I got busy. For me, it's always been like, I've dated on and off on different apps through the years, and I get. I go on, I do it, and then I'm like, okay, I'm bored with this. Like, let me just focus on me.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Mackenzie]

That's so real. Yeah.

[Carrie]

And so honestly, to go back to 2016, at that point, I decided to just focus on my son. And I'm so Glad that I did because four years later, in 2020, he decided to go live with his dad. And so it opened up my life tremendously. And I ended up moving to a different area and to a different job and all the things. And so it was great because we still had a relationship, but he was able to be with his dad. And I didn't want to stop him from being with his dad because people were like, you're going to save your relationship with him because you're allowing him to go and see what his dad is for himself. And I know how his dad is, you know, but he needed to, he needs to experience that for himself. And boys need their dads at that age. And so, like I said, so in 2022, here I am, I'm by myself, I'm in a new area. And so I was like, okay, new area, new men, new opportunities. So it was excited, like I said, I felt like it was gonna be my time and this is gonna be. I was gonna find fresh start, something like that. So I jumped in online because it is. Honestly, online is a great tool to meet people.

[Host 2]

It really. That's what we're doing. That's what people do. It' is a great. That's where everybody is.

[Carrie]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And you met your husband, right, on an app? I met my boyfriend on Bumble. Yeah, it can work.

[Carrie]

It can totally work. And I have met so many nice guys. They just weren't for me. They weren't. They weren't what I was looking for. I was them looking for me. Whatever.

[Host 2]

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[Carrie]

It's.

[Host 2]

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[Carrie]

So anyway, we get on Facebook dating, I get this message from Jack. So I meet Jack and it's okay, I'm not like sold on this guy, but I'm also, you know, not meeting a lot of guys at that point. So kind of, you know, not a.

[Host 2]

Choice, more of a lack of options.

[Carrie]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I like that.

[Host 2]

We'll check this guy out.

[Carrie]

He's.

[Host 2]

He's all right. I guess there's nobody else really going on, right?

[Carrie]

Exactly. And obviously we connected for some reason because we kept throughout that year we would disconnect and then we'd reconnect and then we disconnect and then we reconnected.

[Mackenzie]

And so never met in person yet.

[Carrie]

Had never met in person until June of 2022. I was going ATV riding and my friend knew it was one of my wishes that I wanted. So one weekend I was scheduled to ATV ride and the next weekend I was going skydiving.

[Mackenzie]

What?

[Host 2]

Good for you. Adventurous.

[Carrie]

So I know I, I have that streak in me. So I was planning, I had every intention to go skydiving. But that ATV weekend I ended up flipping the ATV over, broke my leg and ended up in the hospital and it just happened to be in the area where he lived. And so, yes.

[Host 2]

Oh my gosh.

[Carrie]

He wanted for. I think I reached out to him because I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm in this hospital and it's near him. And so he wanted to come by and come see me. And it would have been our first meeting. I was like, yeah, no, it's not.

[Host 2]

Going to work out. No thanks.

[Carrie]

I am like a hot mess. So no, thank you.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's the worst. Like, absolutely.

[Carrie]

Not exactly. Exactly. So I, you know, but I appreciated him, his kindness of wanting to be there for me and. But at that point, that's what reconnected us. But then once I got home from being in the hospital having surgery and then July, I was still healing. August, I was still healing. But I. I would say probably the beginning of August, I was like, you know what, Let me just see who else is out there and just kind of start talking to some people. So I met a really, really nice guy and we started talking and we started dating for about a month, but then by the end of that, you know, we were just kind of heading in different directions and so we decided to just say goodbye.

[Host 2]

Mutually.

[Carrie]

Yes, mutually. But what's interesting is while I was talking to that guy and kind of pseudo dating him, this other guy, Jack, he shows up and he's friend me, friend request me. And I guess because on Facebook app you don't have to friend request people and they do sort of protect you a little bit, but it's probably easier to find people though, too on Facebook. And so, yeah, so he friend requested me and I'm like, oh, there's that guy. And so I was like, oh, accept his friendly request. And then he pops into my messages and I said to him, I'm like, I don't want to talk to you because I'm focusing on this guy. And because for me, I'm just, you know, I just feel like that makes it fair for this one guy that I'm talking to.

[Mackenzie]

It's nice of you to make that clear to the other guy.

[Host 2]

So you're not good communication.

[Carrie]

Yeah. So he respected that and he backed off. But as soon as things were over with that guy, this guy Jack, he. He comes right back around. And I was like, oh, there's that guy again. So. So I was like, okay, so this is probably around September and we start talking and we start just having deeper conversations. And of course, for me, God is extremely important and having that foundation. And so I was very concerned. I was like, you know, just Want to kind of feel you out, see where you're at, you know, do you read the Bible? Do you pray? Do you do these things that, like, I want someone to be doing? And so, so he was like, all about the book of Revelation and the Bible, and he's talking about God and having all these conversations. I'm like, okay. So we finally get to the point where he starts talking more about being in a relationship. And I'm like, whoa. I'm like, I don't become. Go into a relationship with anybody, first of all, who I haven't met through September. We start talking more and more. And it wasn't like it was every day, but you figure there's four weeks in September. And so by the end of September, when he starts talking about being in a relationship, I'm like, okay, whoa. Like you, we have to meet. And I said, and I can't drive at this point because I, I can drive, but I can only drive short distances. And so he was more than happy to come to my location because he had dated a girl and was engaged to a girl who was in my same area.

[Mackenzie]

So I thought, how long ago?

[Carrie]

About 10 years. 11 years ago.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Mackenzie]

So it wasn't like yesterday.

[Carrie]

No, no. And allow it. Yeah, they dated for about three and a half years, I believe it was. And so, so we decided to meet on October 1st of 2022. And as most first dates go and first meetings go, it was good. And I did all the right things. I met him in public. I told my best friend where I was. I didn't tell him where I lived. I hadn't given him much, you know, in my life. And so, so like I said, but it was a, it was a nice first meeting. He was very much a gentleman. He was very kind. He was very understanding.

[Mackenzie]

Was he. Were you, like, attracted to him? Paint a picture a little bit.

[Carrie]

Okay, so that's the thing.

[Mackenzie]

I like that start.

[Carrie]

Yeah, so that's the thing. His pictures Facebook were. He was looked to be a good looking man. I remember we met at the mall and I remember seeing him in a distance because, you know, you're trying to find each other and, you know, kind of see who this person is. And I'm just like, oh, like, okay. I was like, he looks different than his pictures. And did he lie or did he.

[Host 2]

Just choose like the best picture ever?

[Carrie]

I think he chose his best pictures ever. And he had, he looked a little bit like he had gained some weight and different things. You know, his hair was a little Bit more thin, maybe.

[Host 2]

What they. But people don't understand that there is someone out there looking for someone just like you and you trying to be someone else and trying to find the wrong people.

[Mackenzie]

Don't make such a good point.

[Carrie]

Yes. Yes. So first impressions were interesting because I was like, okay, you know, But I tried to make the best of every situation. And I'm like, okay, he might not be what I want, but we had some. I don't even say chemistry, but we had. We could have conversations. So I'm like, okay, I can do this.

[Host 2]

That's fine. We'll talk. We'll see.

[Carrie]

Yeah, we'll talk. So we went out to dinner. You know, we just kind of. We walked around the mall for a little bit, and then we went to a restaurant, drove separately. We had a nice time, and he paid, and he was a gentleman. Like I said, it was really a nice time, and otherwise I would not have met him a second time. And so through that week, though, there were things that were happening that were just. Were a little off. He started sending me pictures of, like, engagement rings, and I was like, why are you sending me before you met weeks within that week, from the first meeting to the second meeting. And I was like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm not really sure what this is, but I know it was a mind game, you know? And so. And then he goes, oh, I just accidentally slept, you know, sent that to you or something like that. You know what I mean? But I was like, okay, we'll see about. Because we had already planned to meet the next Saturday. And so I was like, we'll see how this goes. And I even said to him, I said, well, you know, the first date's always surreal, so you really have to give it another shot. And he's like, well, what do you mean? And I said, well, because the first one is, you're. It is. It's just very surreal. It is. It's awkward. It's just kind of. You're feeling each other out for. You know, do I want to continue this? But we had good conversations throughout the week. And so I just thought, well, I'll just leave it go and let it be what it is. So that Saturday, remember, my leg was still healing. And so again, he texted me, and he was like, so, do you want me to pick you up at her house, or what do you want to do? And there was a slight moment that I thought, oh, maybe I'll just have him pick me up, because, again, my leg is broken. It would Be easier. All the things. And I was like, no, let's just meet at the mall again and just go from there. And so. So we did that that day, though. It was like, I just want to say, like, the universe was giving me all kinds of clues of things that were just going bad and south. And I was like, but, you know, I was committed. I'm a person of my word. So I was like, I'm not going to cancel on this guy. He's driving two hours to come see me. And so he gets there, and as he's driving to meet me, he's. He calls me, and his temper is kind of rising a little bit because there's traffic.

[Host 2]

His temper.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, red flag. We Learned that from Dr. Romani. She said that's a sign of some narcissism. Continue.

[Carrie]

Oh, well, that is very interesting. Yes.

[Mackenzie]

Hold on.

[Host 2]

It's normal for people to, like, get a little temper in the. Like, my. My husband is the easiest going guy ever. Traffic pisses off, and I get it. But you're here on the show, so it's. It's safe to say it can be.

[Mackenzie]

It's not. It's not a deal breaker. It's a red flag. Red flags are just things that make you lift your eyebrows. They're not like, immediate bolts.

[Host 2]

Okay, so let's hear more.

[Carrie]

So the traffic thing started happening. First of all, he was supposed to come at one time, and then he was late and he got sidetracked, and he had all this stuff to do, and I. I don't really know what he was doing, and I don't really care, but I just was like, okay. But now he's on his way, and now he's calling me. He's in traffic that's not far from where we're meeting. But he's, like, stuck in this really bad traffic, and so, you know, just felt like, again, a sign from the universe. So he finally reaches the mall, and we had decided to go to a park, and he was going to drive me this time. And so I was like, okay, that would be nice, because I can't, you know, it's hard for me to drive. And so we go to this park and.

[Mackenzie]

So he picked you up at your place?

[Carrie]

He. Not my place. No, we met at the mall.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

I got. So that. So you still wanted me, which is so smart.

[Carrie]

Yes, yes. So. So we go to this park, and it's around the area where. I guess he used to know this area. And it wasn't. It was maybe 20, 25 minutes from where we were. And so walked around. We were just again, having conversations, but it was different this time. I don't know how to explain it, but before we met, I had said something to him about, oh, I'm so excited because Steve Harvey has these 10 questions that you should ask on a first date.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's fun.

[Mackenzie]

I've seen those.

[Carrie]

So I said to this guy, I want to talk about these questions. And thought he'd be excited, too, but he was like, well, what questions? You know? And he starts questioning me. I know. And I was just like, why? Like, why is he acting weird about these questions? And so I just thought, well, whatever, we'll work that out. And so now we're at this park, and then we get back in his vehicle and we decide, okay, we're hungry. Let's go out to dinner. So at dinner, we're sitting there, and I said to him, oh, I was like, let's talk about these questions that I have. And he didn't look thrilled. And I was like. But things were just. Like I said, his attitude was weird. I was feeling weird. So I didn't know if it was me or if it was him. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Just weird vibes.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. You're like, what's going on?

[Carrie]

Yeah. Like I said, there were just all kinds of weird things happening. But to keep the conversation going, I thought, well, let me ask you one of these. These questions. And so I asked him a question, and it was basically like a preference question. It wasn't. I don't know how to explain it, because these questions.

[Mackenzie]

Sweet or savory, like that, not too deep.

[Carrie]

Yes, exactly. And so he's sitting there, and he, like, couldn't answer the question. And I looked at him. I'm like, just tell me what you think or what you. What you're feeling or what you decide or, you know what I mean? And it just was weird that he couldn't. But I realized even in that moment, I felt like I think I was really getting the vibe. I was like, I think he's trying to figure out what I would want to hear, and that's what he was doing. And so. So, like I said, so then things from there kind of got even a little bit more off. And so we get back into his vehicle, we're just sitting there, and he finally brings up the whole thing about God. And he says to me, he goes, well, what. Your expectations of what you want in a man with. In relationship with the Lord is totally unrealistic. And I was like, well, unrealistic.

[Host 2]

If you want him to be your man, apparently, Right.

[Mackenzie]

It's like, then find someone else, I guess, right?

[Carrie]

So that's what I said to him. I said, well, if that's how you feel. I said, this is over. And so he starts crying and he starts saying, I'm done with women. And, you know, I've been hurt so much. And I mean, okay, I know. So then I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm thinking, like, what is going to happen now? And I'm thinking, like, don't move. Being in his car and all this stuff, because I had no idea. And honestly, I'd been out of the dating scene for a while, but what I used to do was, if I didn't like a guy, and it just was not my cup of tea, I decided that I would wait till I was home and I was safe and then I would tell them, things are off.

[Mackenzie]

I think a lot of women have gotten to that point because you just don't know. They're so unpredictable.

[Carrie]

Trust me, this is proof. Yeah. So that is the one thing that I just was like, you know, I had no idea. And so then he starts, well, can we be friends? And this and that. And so I was like, you know, I'm like, sure, you know, you know, Exactly.

[Mackenzie]

But if you say no, you think, what if he does something to me?

[Carrie]

Exactly.

[Mackenzie]

I just want to diffuse.

[Carrie]

And we're not quite back at our car. My car yet. So you think about that. That I just had to kind of. I don't want to say I was playing a game, but I was just kind of like, okay, I need to figure out the situation. And I didn't feel unsafe, honestly, at that point I just thought, wow, that's a crazy reaction for us just meeting the second time, right? And. But thinking back to him sending the pictures of the engagement ring and, you know, he'd send me these different love songs and these different things. And so I was thinking, well, I guess he had his hopes up high for some reason. And so. And I'm thinking, dude, you don't even know me. So I don't know how you can be already attached. Do you know what I mean? Other than that, this is not a good attachment.

[Mackenzie]

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[Carrie]

Anyway, so he finally sort of calms down. It was a very quiet ride. On the way back to my car, I, I'm trying to think. So I finally, I don't even know. I just kind of was like, okay, well, you know, I don't know what to say, but I'm, you know, I got out of his vehicle. Now I'm in my car and I thought, you know what? I better sit in my car. And it was October at the Time, so it was a little chilly, so we needed. I wanted my car to warm up and I wanted him to drive away before me. Driving away?

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carrie]

And so the way he drove away was like a bat out of hell. I'm telling you, it was the craziest thing. And I'm like, thank you, Jesus. That at least he didn't drive like that when I was in his vehicle, that he's now doing that because I don't know if he thought, well, he really can't manipulate me or he really can't maneuver me. And honestly, like you could totally tell that was manipulation with his crying and. Yeah, oh, 100%, you know, and because of what I've been through with my ex husband and you know, just in the dating scene you get, you get familiar with unfortunately the narcissist behavior. And so, you know, so I started to see it and so, so that night I'm sitting in my car five minutes later, he calls my, my cell phone and he's still crying and he's going to get gas and he's on the phone and he just wants to talk. And at this point I felt kind of, kind of bad for him because I thought he's got a two hour drive, he's all upset, so let me just stay on the phone with him. So that was. I don't even remember the time exactly, but I remember around 11:30 I was like, I have to go because I am going to church tomorrow. I have to go pick up a friend. And so I have to go. And so at this point I was just feeling like he's just going to keep going on and on and on about this stuff and there's no point. And now he's home, so I feel good about saying goodbye. So said goodbye all through that night and into the next morning, which I told him I was going to church, which he knew I was a church girl because of course now I'm unrealistic at my expectations.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Carrie]

According to him. So how do you not know this? Yeah, you know, or you forget it so easily.

[Mackenzie]

Gracious.

[Carrie]

So he keeps texting me and I don't remember if he tried to call me even in the middle of the night. But when I'm home, I shut my phone off and I'm just like that. And so, so he was trying to call me, text me.

[Mackenzie]

And what's he saying in these texts? Just like, I'm so sorry or I miss you or.

[Carrie]

Yes, his one voicemail was, he had said, carrie, I know why you don't you know, you're freaking out, and, you know, you don't want me because I, you know, I told you that I just wanted you to be mine forever. And he had said some things that I think he had texted me, and I was like, this feels really off. And so.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Carrie]

So, you know, and it literally gave me, like, that feeling in my belly that I'm like, yeah, something is not femtuition. Femtuition. I love that phrase.

[Mackenzie]

Trust your intuition.

[Carrie]

Yes. And so. So, yeah, I was like, yeah, that did bother me. But he left this voicemail, which is very. Is very important for what comes soon.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, no.

[Carrie]

And so. So left me this. And he was very apologetic, and he was just like, you know, I'm so sorry I didn't act myself, and can you please, you know, just talk with me? And so this is all while I'm at church. You know, I'm. You know, I'm not seeing his text messages. My phone's away. And so finally get home. And I just kind of had it at that point where I was like, you know what? I said, you need to stop. I said, if I want to talk to you, I will contact you, but you need to stop. Okay, good.

[Host 2]

So clear communication.

[Carrie]

Yes. And I tried to be very nice about it, but at this point point, I was, like, realizing I need to be firm with this guy because he's not getting it. And so at that point, he then continues to text me. And he continues after you said, do not text me. Yes. And I mean, and it got longer and longer texts, and it was almost like he just felt like he had to say all this stuff.

[Host 2]

So now he's trying to convince you to not. Okay.

[Carrie]

Yes, exactly. And so he wouldn't stop. And so we. I finally. I think this. This went all Sunday and then into Monday and Monday morning. I. I finally said to him again, I said, I'm gonna block you if you can't stop. And so at that point, I had already blocked him on Facebook because something was feeling uneasy. And so apparently he then said he started to get mean at that point, and he was just like, did you block me on Facebook? And he was going on. And so I ended up. I think I tried to call him and just to try to talk. And at that point, his voice was completely different, and he was just very rude and. And mean. And so I knew, again, something was off. So I just thought, okay, dude, you just made it really easy for me to block you. And so I blocked his phone number at that point. So that was October 8th. And so all the way going back, going through October, on October 26th. So to back up a little bit, I have a. I have three brothers and then I have one that passed away of cancer in 2001. Gosh. Yeah, it's really sad. I mean, he was only 27 at the time.

[Host 2]

Oh, too young.

[Carrie]

Yes. So October 26th is actually my brother's birthday. And so the one who passed away.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Carrie]

And so that is the only reason why I remember this day. And so he ends up leaving me a voicemail. And granted, at this time, I had already blocked him on Facebook and blocked him on my phone. So I'm getting ready with a friend of mine. We're at my place and she's a co worker of mine and we're headed to an event and she's sitting on my couch and I'm in my recliner and she's on her phone kind of looking at stuff and probably from her husband and things. And so I'm on the recliner and I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh. I'm like, I have a voicemail. And I thought, this is kind of weird because I would. I thought I would notice it and my phone, but if you're not a contact in my phone, you don't get through my phone. And so you know anybody who's spam or whatever. So somehow this number got through and to leave me a voicemail. Well, it was him. And so he says, let me see. He says, all this is like in quotes. All I'm going to say is one thing. Big mistake, Big mistake for messing with me and getting my account disabled. Payback's a bitch. And believe me, you'll get it. And so you can imagine my heart sinking at that point because I'm thinking, what in the world? And so end up going to this event. But I didn't know what to do at that point because I'm sure people will be like, well, why didn't you call the police at that point? And I just. When you're in these situations, you just. I'm not always the quickest thinker. And I'm thinking, I'm gonna go to this event that we're supposed to go to. But I couldn't. I really couldn't focus on it. I couldn't. And it was like a church type event, you know, so it was one of those things. So I obviously, I shared it with my friend right away and I said, listen to this voicemail. And so she was like, that's really weird. And I said, I know. And I, I wasn't sure. Should I just ignore it? Should I? You know, I, I honestly was just kind of like, well, maybe I should just ignore it. And that's what I would have done.

[Mackenzie]

I think, I think it would be like, you know what? Maybe we'll just see. Why escalate if it's not going to.

[Carrie]

Yes, that's exactly what I had thought. And so I went to this event, came back home, and I just remember feeling really uneasy being at my house then, and especially because I'm by myself. But I just thought, okay, just go with it. We'll just see what happens and pray that nothing happens. So the next day I was at work and I sent the message to. I was working at a church at that point and I sent this to some of the pastors and they're like, oh my gosh. They encouraged me to. Then I, I felt like I needed to call the police at that point because I, I just was getting a feeling and so ended up calling the police, talking to an officer. So at that point, always call the.

[Host 2]

Police, even if it's just to tell them what's going on, even if there's no actual law that's been broken yet. And that's like, that's something I want to make clear. Always call the cops. I don't care how little it is.

[Mackenzie]

Is it just for like the record?

[Host 2]

Just for the record? Because what's going to happen is these little bitty things are going to happen and then something huge is going to happen and then you're going to be like, okay, now I need to call the cops. They're going to say, well, why didn't you call the cops before we could have prevented this. And then, then it's like, well, we can't do anything to arrest him because there was no history of what. Do you know what I mean? So it's always call the cops, even if it's something stupid, and just be like, well, I called you 47 times. Do you know what I mean?

[Mackenzie]

And it's so hard because you feel stupid, but we have to.

[Host 2]

You feel. I'm not saying call 91 1, but like you can call the non emergency line and say like, hey, this is going on. I call the sheriff's office, let them know I want to make a report of this. Nobody needs to come out. I'm not requesting a deputy. I'm not using the county's resources or whatever. I know that this is really small, but always or even if you still feel too silly to call the cops? Write it down in a journal. Keep something that's like pen and paper. This date, this time, this happened. That's your receipt. That's your bill of sale for that transaction. And that will show you're keeping a journal. So when it goes to court or when it goes to the cops. Cops. You can say, well, this happened. This happened. This happened. Well, why didn't you call the cops? Well, there was no real law being broken, but I wanted to keep track of this and that. That you can hold.

[Mackenzie]

That helps you. Hopefully.

[Carrie]

That is good advice. And even if you get some cops that are not the friendliest, they still.

[Host 2]

Got to take that report.

[Carrie]

Exactly. Exactly. And so. Because I've run into a lot of different things, so I'm glad that you.

[Host 2]

Brought that up, because it is so important that you tell somebody. Tell somebody. Write it down. Write it in your journal, email it to yourself. Whatever. Keep record of it.

[Carrie]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Mackenzie]

No, I'm glad.

[Carrie]

I'm glad, because that. That is the whole purpose of telling the story, is that hopefully people will do what I didn't feel sure to do. Because when this is first happening to you, you don't know what you don't know.

[Host 2]

You don't know what you don't know. Absolutely.

[Carrie]

And I am much more aware today than I was back then. I was very oblivious back then. And we walk around looking at our phones and doing all these things.

[Host 2]

Nobody's paying attention. I'm a P.I. i watch people not pay attention. They're not. Nobody's paying attention.

[Carrie]

Exactly. And. But some creepy people are.

[Host 2]

Yep. The ones who you need to be scared of are.

[Carrie]

Exactly. Exactly. So at that point, with this voicemail, I ended up reporting it to the police. The police officer tells me, well, I'm gonna call him and see what I can find out, because it's a he said, she said situation at this point.

[Mackenzie]

But wait, so they're gonna call the guy?

[Carrie]

They're gonna call. They're gonna call Jack. And so she calls me back. I don't know, in a matter of maybe 10, 15 minutes. And she says, so I talked to him. He said that his accounts are fine. Nothing's wrong with them, and that he has broken things off with you and that he has not contacted you in three weeks. Weeks. And so. So I was like, well, that's interesting, because I want to call the police on myself to tell them, because he broke off.

[Host 2]

Say otherwise.

[Mackenzie]

You literally have evidence. But okay, buddy.

[Carrie]

Exactly. So. So I. I don't know, I just find that very amusing because I'm thinking you just lied about everything in your voicemail through that, then ended up blocking him. So the police officer says to me, I told him not to contact you. And so I said, okay, great, fine. Well, I keep receiving then in the back of my phone, remember? Cause any spam calls, that kind of thing still come into my phone, but they're not ringing my phone. So there's tons of calls that I'm seeing now. And I'm like, what?

[Mackenzie]

And they're different numbers.

[Carrie]

They're different. They're all different numbers, but their area code is the same as this. This area code that this guy's phone was from. And so the police officer says to me, she's like, well, why don't you look at your text and do screenshots and send them to us? So I was like, I'm not gonna sit there on my iPhone and screenshot my iPhone. So I went imessage. So get this. I don't know if you know this. Maybe you do. I did not know this until this happened. But remember, I blocked him on my iPhone. But when you go on imessage, imessage has all of these texts that happened after I blocked him that I'm not seeing but are coming up in imessage. I had no idea that was a thing that I did not.

[Mackenzie]

What?

[Host 2]

What? What? I'm sorry.

[Mackenzie]

Like, if I blocked somebody on my phone, they could Their messages. Because I know when you block somebody, it's not like they're really blocked. They just like go to a little folder and somewhere in your phone or something. But.

[Host 2]

Oh, so you went in and found messages that you never saw because he was blocked.

[Mackenzie]

They popped up, like, on her computer.

[Host 2]

Oh, oh, okay, okay, okay.

[Carrie]

Yeah. So when I test this, you totally should, because I was like, I'm not going to screenshot little. Little shots on my. I am I on my iPhone. So I was like, I'm going to go on the computer. That's how I found this. Because when I brought it up on the computer, soon as I blocked him, I mean, he starts calling me, you're a lunatic. You can't sing. You're ugly. You're this, you're that. And then in one of the things, he must have got really angry because he said he. He texted, I hope you die, bitch. Yeah. So at that point, I reported that to the police officer had screenshotted every single message where she sees the beforehand where he's trying to win me back all the way through now he is getting angry and just. I mean really like so much like my ex husband actually looks so familiar. It is, it is for real.

[Mackenzie]

Do you feel like that you more emotional about it or more like get away? Like let's just get rid. You know what I mean? Like having it bring up your past, I feel like could go a lot of different ways with what it triggers.

[Carrie]

Some of it was that I was like, gosh man, am I like attracting this stuff to myself. But 2020, I did my work and so I met the guy two times, shut it down as soon as I knew something was off. And most people go away. And so I knew in my mind that this guy didn't go away. So this is, this is some kind of situation. I just.

[Host 2]

Most people can take a hint.

[Carrie]

Yeah, right.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it was like. No, he took it as a challenge.

[Carrie]

Exactly, exactly. So at that point I then talked to another officer and sent the messages. I called them and so he says this is now a second officer. He says I'm gonna call him and talk to him. He calls Jack and he tells him the same story. My accounts are fine. I haven't talked to her in a few weeks. And I broke things off with her same exact story. And so this second officer, which the first officer was a woman and the second officer was a man. And so he tells me what happened. And so I said okay, that's fine. So over the weekend you can imagine my head is racing because I'm thinking, am I safe? You know, I didn't know. And again, I'm living by myself so I don't know what to expect. So by Monday morning, the police officer called me and she said we are going to charge him with two misdemeanor harassment charges. She's like, let me. Yes. So she said to me, let me call him and then I'll give you a call back. When I was expecting five or 10 minutes at the most that you know, she's going to tell him and have this conversation. She calls me back probably about 40 minutes later and she goes, wow, that was a range of emotions. So she proceeds to tell me that it went from her telling him that you lied to us and kind of going back to their conversations and saying we are now going to charge you because you did these things. And he finally admitted it, that he did lie to them and he did these things and did the voicemail, but then he went from, oh my gosh, please don't charge me. Would you please consider that we can have a three way call and I can apologize. And she's like, no, she's like, you're being charged.

[Host 2]

What are you, 10? You're not gonna write an apology letter and do detention.

[Mackenzie]

Can you imagine if they were like, yeah, the woman. Yeah, harassed. Let's get her on the phone.

[Carrie]

Exactly. That's exactly So I guess so he wouldn't be charged. I don't know. So he's trying to work her. So the officer obviously did not fall for that. She charged him with two misdemeanor harassment charges. That was that morning, probably mid morning. So going out of work that day, I'm pretty much one of the last people to be leaving my building. And I get into my car and so I'm at a church and we had a daycare. And so it wasn't unfamiliar to have cars in the parking lot or coming in and out, that kind of thing. But there was a car that was parked like my car was parked pretty much in front of the doors. And then there was a car that was a black car kind of in a distance. So I see this car and I'm already on edge because I'm thinking, you know, because again, femme tuition is kicking in and I'm like, like looking at this car. So I get in my car, this car starts itself up, and then there is a parking lot on the other side of like a through street. Like where the parking lot was. There was the entrance of the church, a street that goes by, and then there's another parking lot. So it's very close to each other. So I'm in my car now. See this car now start itself up, pull through the through street on the other parking lot right in front of me, like to. To make it clear that they wanted me to see them. And unfortunately, again, I'm not thinking, oh, get the license plate. Take a picture. Yeah, so I'm seeing this and it's. It's like a minute long maybe, but it's like slow motion in some ways. And so this car pulls up right in front of me, then pulls around, drives away exactly. Like this guy, the second time I shot cut things off with him. And I'm like, oh, my word. I'm pretty sure that was him. So I immediately call the police at that point. And I talked to this officer and I told her, I said, this guy, I'm sure he's following me. I said that he now, because he didn't know where I lived or where I worked, according to what I knew, because I had never shared that with him. So the fact that he Showed up at, you know, I believe that it was him. They. They will say, well, you don't really know if it was him. I'm like, who else would it be? Yeah, you're promising payback.

[Host 2]

It doesn't take a rocket surge, but it does take.

[Carrie]

Exactly. Exactly. So the police officer was like, man, she's like, he called me like, four times, so I was hoping he'd leave you alone. And I'm thinking, I'm stalking the police now. He's apparently calling her and just trying to convince her maybe to not charge him. I don't know what he was calling her about, but it just got weird from that point. So at that point, I decided that I was going to go stay with a friend because I thought that feels safer to me. I don't feel safe in my home now.

[Host 2]

No. 100%. That was a good choice.

[Carrie]

So, yeah, so I went and stayed with a friend after that. I can't even describe what. What happened in my life. I will. It just. It makes me emotional. Oh, bless.

[Host 2]

I'm so sorry.

[Mackenzie]

I mean, this is like. I just can't imagine the fear, like, the constant looking over your shoulder even at this point, let alone wherever you're about to go.

[Carrie]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, it just makes me emotional because I think. Because it's not over. And so. And that's where, again, just praying and hoping that someone out there can help me to stop this madness. You know what I mean? So sorry. I just need.

[Mackenzie]

Don't apologize.

[Carrie]

No, take your time.

[Host 2]

I'm like, gearing up. Like, I'm like, putting. I'm putting.

[Mackenzie]

We help.

[Carrie]

No, because like I said, I want to share my story, but it's very raw and real at times. I mean, for the most part, I'm at the point where I'm just like, man, I'm just so over this already. You know what I mean? But when. Sometimes when you're talking about it, it just can bring up emotions. So the next things that start happening is my accounts start being broken into, my phone starts being hacked.

[Host 2]

Like your social media accounts?

[Carrie]

Yep, my social media. My. My regular business accounts, my Gmail accounts, my. Wait, my phone.

[Mackenzie]

Are they doing anything? How do you know?

[Host 2]

Yeah, how do you know they're breaking it? Like, what are they doing?

[Carrie]

So I will change a password, and the minute I change the password, it's not working. Things like that.

[Mackenzie]

So they're not like spending money or messaging people. It's almost like a controlled thing.

[Carrie]

It. It's totally a control thing. My phone was doing all the things that you would expect a hacked phone to do. It was losing power. It was literally, I could watch apps on my phone. And the one night I actually was getting. I had surgery that day to get the screws out of my ankle. And I had. At that point, I had WI fi and I had security cameras, and both were being shut down and messed with. And so when I'm literally this. This night that. This. The night of the day that I had surgery, I'm in my recliner and I'm just resting. And I had fog light that was also a security camera. And I was looking on my phone, and I literally see my app shutting my lights off. And they had been programmed to be on from, like, 7 and 7 at night until, you know, the next day.

[Host 2]

Okay, so that means that somebody has remotely hacked your phone and they are controlling your phone screen from another device.

[Carrie]

Correct, Correct. And so that happened. And then at that same time, when I was looking at my phone, my phone, literally, I see it starting to call out to a phone number, and it's calling, and I'm literally, I have it in my hand, and I'm just looking at it, and my phone is now calling a number. So that starts happening. And after this stuff started happening, like I said, I did get WI Fi. I got security cameras because I didn't have them. And so all of that kept getting shut down. So now I'm calling the Internet carrier. They're telling me, we have never seen anything like this before. And I'm thinking, I'm sure you haven't, because I never have. My security cameras, they were being shut down. And so, honestly, I finally got rid of them because I thought, well, is it better to have someone break into your house with security cameras and shutting them down, or is it better to just not know? So I chose to shut them down because I was spending literally hundreds and hundreds of hours calling vendors to fix things, calling to fix my account, and they had.

[Host 2]

Nobody knew how to fix it.

[Carrie]

No one knew how to fix it because.

[Host 2]

So it's so novel still.

[Carrie]

Yes. The technology.

[Host 2]

The technology, yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And your phone, did you want to get, like, what did you think about using your phone?

[Carrie]

So I decided to completely wipe out my phone. Factory reset the phone. Thought that was going to work. Nope. Got hacked into after the factory reset. So there must have been something deeper into the phone. To this day, I. So I am now on my third phone. And the second phone that was bought was through the church that I worked for. It wasn't even in my name it wasn't in my account. And that phone got hacked into what?

[Host 2]

When you were signing in to new. Like when you bought a new phone, for instance, was it an Apple phone?

[Carrie]

It was.

[Host 2]

Okay. And did you use this same Apple ID or did you create a new one every time?

[Carrie]

I created a completely new one. And completely.

[Host 2]

And still being hacked, yes.

[Carrie]

At that point, it just continued with my accounts. It was mainly virtual at that point. And then. And I don't remember the exact timing of this, but it wasn't too far after that. I came home from church one day and came into my bedroom and my one pillow has a decoration on the front of it, but on the back it's plain.

[Host 2]

Oh, God.

[Carrie]

And I'm a very. Because I live by myself and I'm just very systematic, that kind of thing. And so I came into my bedroom and I'm pretty organized and very neat and tidy. And so I saw my pillow and I'm like, was I that tired that I didn't like. I'm like looking at my pillow and I'm thinking, that is so weird. I'm thinking, I must have been really tired or something. And that night I remember sitting in my bed because I pretty much take my pillows off and line them up next to me and, you know, it just brings me. Feels comfortable. It's a ritual. Yeah, yeah. And so I line them up, and then when I make my bed, I line them back, you know, the way that they're supposed to be. And so I was sitting in my bed and I was looking at my pillow, and I just remember thinking, did I do that? Was I. Like, you're questioning yourself.

[Host 2]

What did it do? Was it backwards?

[Carrie]

It was backwards, yes. And so the plain side was faced so I could see it, and the decorative side was backwards. And so I'm seeing this and I'm kind of. I was like, I just questioned it. And then by the next day, I thought exactly what you said before I end this, decided to call the police because I said, this is just weird to me because I don't do that. And my friends who know me, they will tell you that I am very much like, in its place kind of person. And that ended up being the first of many times that he broke into my home.

[Host 2]

I can't believe I said, I just can't believe. There's like a whole nother half to this story.

[Mackenzie]

It literally does feel like a scary movie. Like, this is the kind of stuff that filmmakers put in movies to add suspense. Like, he is. He's like, this Master. I'm just not ready for part two. I need the break.

[Host 2]

So let's talk about how the laws are not. The laws are not catching up to technology. The, the laws are. The criminals are a couple steps ahead. And I feel like the laws need to. The law need to catch up. We need more insight into like the brain of a stalker. Like what are they thinking? What do they ultimately want? And so I feel like more education and more task forces specifically for stalking. Because that's what leads to the danger and the violence. Because a lot of times stalking is escalated, right?

[Mackenzie]

Yes. And even if it's not escalated when there's not proof of violence or evidence really of like a, like I. We'll get to it. We'll get through this whole dogfish debrief really extensively at the end of part two. But I just feel like these victims have to like wait until something bad happens and then they get support that they need. And that is so scary to be like, wait, so do I just have to sit in my house until I have. Have proof that he broke in?

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mackenzie]

Or do I?

[Host 2]

And that's what's hard is, is showing the proof. And it's not on a local law enforcement level. It's. You can't really blame anybody. Like, law enforcement can only do what they can do.

[Carrie]

Right.

[Host 2]

But at the same time, it's like.

[Mackenzie]

The laws that need to catch up.

[Host 2]

The laws? Yeah, it's the legislation. Legislation, it's the laws. It's on all these different levels. We really need to focus on educating our. Because you can't. Like when you just call the cops and say, hey, come help me. There's nothing they can do if they can't prove somebody broke the. Like they are on a local level. Right. So we need more in depth education and training and a focus on these certain crimes that it's kind of, it's a gray area, like no one knows how to handle it, you know, because it's hard to prove. So it's, it's. That creates the danger.

[Mackenzie]

I mean, that's also why it's so important to hear from people like Carrie directly. Because they're the people that, I mean, I wish that they were not in that position, but they're the ones that we need to listen to. Like whenever a law directly affects a person, I always am wondering why that person isn't in the decision making room. Like that feels so important to me. And I hope that her story reaches.

[Host 2]

People because they're the ones with the experience. They're the ones who could say, like, hey, this was my experience. Maybe we could try this? Or what? Or at least give their input something, right?

[Mackenzie]

It's like, what do you need? So, yeah, so part two next week. I do want everybody's thoughts and whatever's come up for you so far, let us know.

[Host 2]

You can go ahead and send your support to Carrie, too, like, if you want to. Like, we want to hear what your thoughts are on the episode so far. Obviously, there's still y'all. There's so much. Bless her heart. And she's. I just feel like this is why it's so important to talk about these things. And this is why I'm so glad that we're able to offer a platform and, you know, give someone a voice when they might not otherwise have it. So I just appreciate you guys listening and supporting them in that way.

[Mackenzie]

Thanks, everybody. We were assuring her that our audience just is always so supportive, and you guys really are.

[Host 2]

We love you so much.

[Mackenzie]

It's shocking, really, because this is a world where people victim blame like crazy. And to have such compassion and understanding, even when you guys don't relate to a scenario or whatever the story is, I'm just always blown away by the compassion. And, like, even if one person sneaks through and says something poopy, we just block them. Bye. Yeah, but it's, like, barely ever anyone you.

[Host 2]

It's the sense of community. I talk about it every single time. You guys hear me. I'm talking about the sense of community that you create for basically anyone who has. Who wants to tell their story or needs to tell their story or doesn't have an outlet or resources or support. And we can just be that for them. So thank you guys for being here and for listening to the show. And listen, then next week for the second half.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Not to be annoying with a seamless transition, but it is a seamless segue into Patreon. I don't want to just sell, sell, sell, you guys, but we are really grateful for the patreoners. It's only $5 a month. And part of why it's so special is because of the community. Like, everybody's always in the chat, asking for advice, asking, telling funny stories about bad dates. Like, it's just. Just a great group of people that relate to you. Because if you're listening to us, you probably have similar values in terms of what we accept among people. We are not big Dogfish fans, and it's just a nice group of them. I really love everybody. So just know that if we take time to respond to comments or emails. We are always trying to get to them. But Molly, shout out to Molly. Producer Molly gets a lot of, she's legit.

[Host 2]

I don't, she never sleeps. It's fine.

[Mackenzie]

No, for real, do you want to say the email where people can send their stories to Ms. Molly?

[Host 2]

Yes, I will. The email is investigatedatingdetectivespodcast.com Send us your story and tell us what your experience is and we would love to be a voice for you or a platform. And you never know who you're going to impact with your story. You never know who needs to hear it. You never know who needs to to feel less alone. So preach. Just yeah, pop in, tell us your story and we would, we would love to hear from you. So thank you guys for listening to.

[Mackenzie]

The show and as, as always, trust your fem tuition.