A (2:25)

I do want to say, and I won't go into it too much because I don't want to spoil, but there is an element of this experience that is probably gonna relate to a lot of people in a sad, difficult way where it's like, you know, going through some really hard, real stuff that doesn't always lead someone to be a dogfish, but can. So we want to extend a lot of empathy for that. And we always do a debrief at the end of our episodes to really dive in, just mackenzie and me, like, what we can take away, what we can learn, what we can just discuss further. So stick around.

B (2:53)

Yeah.

A (2:54)

To reflect on everything. But I think at this point, we can give it back to Claire.

B (2:59)

Yeah, let's do it. Let's hear from Claire.

C (3:08)

So I get a text from David, Ryan's dad. He texts me saying that Ryan has had a heart attack at work. What? He says that he was rushed in an ambulance from work and is in critical condition and that the co worker that he'd always mentioned had phoned him and let him know. And so I'm like, well, oh, my God, which hospital is he going to? And he said he doesn't know. He's trying to figure out where he's going so he can meet him there. And I'm like, well, let me come too. I'll meet you. And it's an important thing to note that, you know, I said that Ryan had issues with his wallet being.

B (3:54)

Yeah, yeah.

C (3:55)

And his IDs and all that. And when his location would go off, he would say he had phone issues, but he couldn't renew the plan or get a new phone because of all this.

B (4:06)

Like, this guy's the worst luck in the world.

A (4:09)

Did his location go black?

C (4:12)

Occasionally. Occasionally.

A (4:14)

Interesting.

C (4:14)

So he was sometimes using his dad's phone. So I've got Dad's number in my phone, and I'm just planting that there because I'm getting the message from David now at this point. So he says he doesn't know which hospital he's going to, but I'm like, can you share your location with me? And I'll just come meet you where you are and we'll go together. I'm working from home that day. Thank goodness. So I text my boss, and I'm like, oh, my God, this just happened. Ryan's had an actual heart attack. I have to go figure out where he is. I have to leave for the day.

B (4:48)

Yeah.

C (4:49)

And she's like, that's crazy. Let me know how things play out. And so then I called ambulance dispatch to try and figure out where he was. I'm like, maybe they'll be able to tell me where they took him, right? And so I was like, he was picked up around this time from, like, this building, his office downtown.

B (5:09)

They're like, we have no record.

C (5:11)

We have no record, and we can't find any record of that happening. And so I was like, hey, that's really weird. But again, dad has got his location on. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go join the dad at this point and figure out, like, where was the dad?

A (5:29)

Like, maybe a co worker drove him, and there was miscommunication, something.

B (5:33)

Benefit of the doubt, right?

C (5:38)

So I follow dad, and when I finally get close enough to his little dot on the map, he is on the other side of the boulevard. And then I have to loop around, and then all of a sudden, he's on the other side again. Like, he's going in circles almost, so I can't catch up with him. And I'm like, I don't know what's up with the map. It keeps saying that I'm right next to you, and then I'm not. And he's just like, oh, it's the phone. Like, the phone's acting up again.

B (6:11)

Like, this is the dad's phone, though. So now the dad's phone act up again.

C (6:14)

This is the dad. Yeah, apparently, right?

A (6:16)

How soon after his heart surgery are we?

C (6:19)

We are, like, not even two weeks. Yeah, just maybe over a week. So I end up following this. Once it stays on a straight line, and I end up meeting him. He parks, and he's outside of a law office downtown. The dad and the dad. And so I'm like, what? What is going on? And he opens the door, and he seems kind of annoyed. Like, he seems kind of pissed off that I'm there. And Ryan's in the vehicle, too.

A (7:01)

Oh, and does he look like he has a heart attack?

C (7:04)

He's sweaty. And what else is he slumped over? What the fuck, dude? So he's looking very sick. And I'm like, what happened? I was told that you were picked up by an ambulance, that this guy called, and he tells me that he refused the ambulance to protect his license. He said he had what he felt like was a seizure. And if he reports that he has a seizure, then he can't be driving and he'll never get his license back. So his dad came to pick him up. And in my head, I'm not thinking, like, right now. I'm like, the dad actually told me was the one that told me that he had the ambulance. Right. Like, but in the moment, I'm just very confused and worried and all of the emotions and nothing's making sense. Right, right. And so, like, why are we at this downtown building? And they said, we have to go and sign these papers for the transfer of the house, like, the estate or something to keep the house sale. So I'm like, okay, well, I'll wait for you to sign the papers and then we'll go to the hospital. Right. Like.

B (8:08)

Like, holy shit.

C (8:09)

Clearly not okay. And so they go in and I go up with them, and they get taken into this boardroom with a lawyer. And I'm waiting in the lobby, and it's maybe about 40 minutes that they're in there, and they come out and we go back down to the main lobby towards the car. So on the way out to get the car, we run into this guy who is apparently a co worker of Ryan's. And his whole demeanor changes, and he's like, oh, you wouldn't be able to tell right now, but I'm actually really struggling. I'm having a bit of a health issue. But they shoot the shit. And then he starts talking about, like, oh, when I got the presidency, nobody ever thought I was gonna get it. And this guy was like, oh, I know, right? And in my mind, it's backing up the story that he's the pre.

B (8:57)

Right.

C (8:58)

So we go get the car, and he's gonna drive it back to his dad, pick him up, and then go to the hospital, still sweating. But after he's had this interaction with this old buddy of his, he starts being much worse for wear. Like, it was like he put it on for two seconds while he was talking to this guy, and then he's very sick again. And so I'm like, okay, well, which hospital are we going to? And he's like, you go home. I will go straight to the hospital.

B (9:25)

I.

C (9:25)

And I'm like, no, I want to be there with you. Let me come. And he wouldn't let me. He's like, you go home. You've got the kids to pick up in a couple hours. I'll text you once I get there. Again, not wanting me to come to the hospital. So I text my best friend at this point, and I'm like, look, this is what I was told this morning. It doesn't make sense, but he's apparently going to a hospital, and I want to be there, like, wherever he is tonight, if this is seriously what's happening. Like, he says he's had a heart attack, but, like, I. I don't know. Like some. Nothing is making sense to me. Right.

B (10:00)

Yeah.

C (10:00)

And she's like, okay, I'll. I'll be there. I'll be there this evening. If you need to go to a hospital, I'll watch the kids once they're sleeping so you can go be with them. And so later that day, like I'm expecting. He's gone to the hospital, right? And he starts texting me. Almost pissed off at me, like he was angry. And he says that me wanting to be there is too much pressure. He starts saying that I'm causing all sorts of. All sorts of more stress for him. And he's already having this cardiac incident, and he just needs to be left alone to deal with it.

B (10:38)

You're the reason for my heart blaming you.

C (10:41)

He starts blaming me. Yeah. And I'm like, look, I'm just trying to be there and figure out what's going on, and I just want to be there for you. And then he starts texting the most random things that made absolutely no sense. Like, I assumed he was on morphine or some kind of strong kind of drug, or he's on drugs.

A (11:02)

And the sweating. Now I'm kind of like, wait, okay, keep going.

C (11:06)

In my mind, he's at the hospital. He's telling me he's there. He's starts talking about. I remember he texted me saying, why did you have to go off with that guy? And I'm like, what guy? He's like, the party boy. And I'm like, what? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, the party boy in the room. Why did you have to go with him? And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. We've never gone to a party. Like, I must. I stay at home. Like, I've got children. We've never been to a party. What are you talking about? And so I assume he's hooked up to some painkillers or something, and he's loopy. And then he starts making less and less sense. He says he doesn't know where he is. He doesn't know what hospital he's at. He's hooked up to all these wires. He was in the ambulance, and he wasn't sure which hospital they were taking him to. He starts naming different. Yeah, now he's in an ambulance and is all hooked up, and he's confused as to where he's going. And he's like, I think I'm going to this hospital. No, but they mentioned this one. And, like, I Might need to be transferred to this one. And it's all very confusing and he's frustrated and making less sense. And then he says, you know what? I'm going to hand over my phone. I can't talk anymore. I'm going to give it to this nurse. And immediately I start getting very coherent messages. And I am told that I am speaking to a nurse named Kristin and. And that my husband has had a very serious heart event and he is in good hands and that he hasn't stopped talking about me. And he's going to be transferred to this other hospital for an MRI at 6pm that evening. But he's a good patient. And I'm like, is he loopy because he's got morphine? And then this woman on the other end is like, oh, it's from lack of oxygen to the brain. That happens sometimes when these things happen. But he's okay. Like, he's stabilizing. He's gonna be fine. And he just keeps talking about how wonderful you are and you're his angel. And I'm like, okay, well, where can I come at 6 o' clock when he's gonna be transferred? I just wanna be there. So she names this hospital. So I tell my friend, hey, I gotta go at 6 o'. Clock. This is where he's gonna be.

B (13:31)

One thing I wish I knew earlier about credit, like back when I was in college, was how it actually works. They teach you all this math stuff in high school, they don't teach you how credit works. And when I got my first credit card, I was like, oh, this is fine. And I just thought it was like magical money. And I didn't worry about paying it back on time. I was like, oh, I don't have the money. It's fine. They'll wait, y'.

C (13:49)

All.

B (13:49)

It ruined my credit for so long, and now that I'm. Now that I'm 40, I'm just now getting a grip on it. Ava helps turn the table so you can finally get the credit you deserve. It's a credit building app that's designed to work fast and help your credit score where it really matters. So your credit score can start climbing with almost zero effort. Instead of a secured card that locks up a deposit takes weeks. Ava can approve you in five minutes with up to $2,500 of a credit limit. And there's no credit check. You just pay your monthly subscriptions. They give you a list of different things you can pay, and it basically reports your on time payments to all the credit bureaus. Quickly. So it helps you build your solid credit history quickly. And you can improve your score by an average of 30 points in 30 days. AVA can now report your rent, utility, phone bills automatically, even up to 24 months of past payments. So your everyday payments help build your credit faster and it's all included in your AVA membership. Take control of your credit today. Download the AVA app.

C (14:47)

That's AVA.

B (14:48)

And when you join using our promo code Dating20, you'll get 20 off your first year, monthly or annual, your choice. Again, grab the AVA app and use our promo code Dating20 so they know you heard it from us and you'll get 20% off any plan for up to a year. I absolutely love it. I've been using it for I guess just about a year now and it's helped me tremendously. Use our promo code dating 20 thanks to Ava. Now go get yourself some good credit.

A (15:14)

Mackenzie. I used to be such a gross sweaty sleeper. Not like our dogfish in this story. I will clarify but I would get

B (15:22)

so hot and I'm someone who gets cold.

A (15:26)

Well wouldn't it be nice if there were some sheets that were temperature regulated so that we could both use them and it would help both of us.

B (15:34)

But wait, there is.

A (15:37)

You guys.

B (15:38)

I love the miracle made sheets and Hannah, I know you love them too.

A (15:42)

Yeah. And they are inspired by NASA technology which is so cool. Silver infused temperature regulating which isn't. It's a. I love it. I love science and yeah.

B (15:52)

And also you guys know I'm into skin care and makeup and all these things. Most traditional bedsheets can hold more bacteria than a toilet seat. So when you're laying your face on it like I'm over here trying to tell you like keep your face clean and maintain your self care and like this is not what you want to lay your face on. So miracle made bedding is designed to fight bacteria and stay cleaner longer. And the silver infused fabrics actually Prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth which will help your skin. So it's a double whammy and like

A (16:23)

fewer washes, less laundry. We love that. Also I feel like a lot of people when they get that skin issue that they just can't figure out what the problem is. They don't realize to check their sheets.

B (16:35)

Yeah. So upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to try Miracle.com TDD to try Miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40% and when you use promo code TDD you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's trymiracle.com TDD code TDD at checkout. Thanks to Miracle made for sponsoring this episode.

C (17:07)

So I call the hospital that he's apparently at right now and I wanna confirm the time of the transfer and where he's going to be. Cause everything's been very confusing and he's named like three different hospitals at this point. Point. So I end up speaking to the charge nurse and she says, we don't have a nurse named Kristen.

A (17:28)

Oh my God.

C (17:31)

She said that he did come into the hospital earlier that day claiming that he'd had a mental heart attack. She said that he had come in with his dad earlier, they'd done some tests on him and told him to wait. And then they went out to get him an hour or so later and they left. And so all the time that he's been texting me that he's hooked up to machines, he's in the hospital. They had already left like hours prior. What?

B (18:02)

Why is he okay?

C (18:04)

So then the nurse asks my permission to call the police. She thinks he sounds mentally unstable. He's now impersonating a medical professional. She's like, with your permission, I want to make a police report on this guy.

A (18:19)

We need to do a wellness check at the very least.

C (18:22)

So my friend's with me, he's no longer responding to text messages. We're just waiting for some news, like something. And then he calls me. And my friend actually recorded it, she got it on speakerphone. And I'm saying to him, I don't understand. The nurse said you left. He's like, now I have to answer to the police? Why the fuck would you do that? You've just made things ten times more complicated. I'm like, I didn't call the police. The nurse said she was gonna do this for these reasons. And he's just, just insisting that I was the one that did it. And I've fucked everything up for him and hangs up on me.

A (18:58)

All right?

C (18:59)

So then my friend, she stays, we hanging out till like 10 o' clock and she's like, I gotta get home, right? It's the weeknight. And I stay up for a bit cause I'm freaking out. I'm like, where is he? What's he doing? Is he okay? Yeah.

A (19:13)

What are your theories?

B (19:15)

What the crap is going on?

A (19:17)

Do you have any theories at this point?

C (19:19)

No. I am very confused. I am like, he's been Telling me all day he's in and out of different hospitals. He's been transferred. He had ambulance. But this nurse has told me that he left. So where has he been? I'm very confused. So I can't sleep. So I'm staying up. It gets to like 11, 11:30 at night, and there's this banging on my door. Really loud banging on my door.

B (19:42)

Oh, God.

A (19:43)

And your kids are home.

C (19:44)

My first thought, my kids are at home, upstairs sleeping. So I'm like, like. So I go downstairs, I'm like, it's the cops. When I saw the cops standing there, I honestly thought they were there to tell me that he had died or like they'd found him in an accident or something somewhere. And so they are like, did you make the call about Ryan? And I explained. I'm like, no, I. This happened today. He was all all over the place, not making any sense. Said he was in hospital. Spoke to a charge nurse. She called because she was concerned about his behavior and his mental state. And the cop said, have you had any contact with him? And I said, yeah. He called me briefly, and he was mad that he. Somebody had called the cops on him. And he hung up. And they're like, well, why are you in touch with him? You have a protection order?

B (20:41)

What?

C (20:43)

So they said, you're. The name's the ex wife. I'm like, no. Like, I'm his current partner now, kind

A (20:54)

of not legally, but almost whatever we

C (20:56)

are at this point.

B (20:57)

So the wife has. The actual ex wife has a protection order? Yes.

C (21:01)

So they say, you know what? Like, we're going to figure out where he is and what's going on, and we'll be in touch.

A (21:10)

And that's all they give you?

C (21:11)

I'm tired. And that's all they give me. And they leave. And suddenly the whole situation shifted from panic about his health to realizing I might not actually know who this person even is. And it was literally an hour later they came back. They came back to my house. It's like after midnight. I'm still awake because this is. And they basically said, we don't know why he did this to you. We found him at his dad's place. Absolutely fine. He is there. He's been there all evening. And I'm like, what, the dad's new place? And he's like, well, his aunt's place. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, well, that's where they're living. I'm like, what? What? And so, yeah, I'm like, None of this is making sense to me at this point. I'm like, what the hell was this day? Am I in the Twilight zone? What do you mean? He lives at his aunt's house. What is happening? And they said that they would advise. I changed my locks. They gave me some information on getting my own protection order and apologized and said they don't know why somebody would do this.

A (22:23)

And when they say do this, they

B (22:24)

mean like lie to you about.

C (22:26)

Lie to me all day about being in the hospital.

A (22:28)

Yeah. Okay. How did it feel to find out these lies from the police?

C (22:34)

I don't know how to explain it. It was just this feeling of. It was almost like the blood draining and you just become really cold realizing that this person may have been lying to me the whole time. There's nothing that I can really say that describes that shift. Like that heart sinking feeling of overwhelming confusion. And it's just that storm internally of your heart wants to believe that he's who he says he is. Your head is not making sense of the information that's in front of you right now, but it's trying to. And that inner whirlwind of what is happening was a very strange feeling. It's super disorienting because your brain is trying to rationalize in real time what it has believed up until this point with its immediate reality. And when those two things don't align, you are just completely in a spin. You don't know what to do, you don't know what to feel. And you feel like you're feeling 20 different things at once. And all of a sudden I was just numb and cold and confused. That's the best way I can explain it. And I knew the gig was up. So at this point, I don't let on to Ryan that I know he's busted. And so I FaceTime him and I don't think he's gonna pick up. He does. And I've got a picture on my phone of this. Cause it was wild. He answers the phone again, sweaty, sweaty.

B (24:08)

What is wrong with this guy?

C (24:10)

Okay, well, so he does pick it up, but he's really close to the screen. And he says he's in his hospital room waiting for the doctor to come back. And I can tell he is out of it. His eyes are darting around, he can't keep focus, he's sweating and he's hiding where he is because I know he's at his dad's place, right? Whoa.

A (24:34)

The ant's place.

C (24:36)

So the next morning he texts me saying, and this one's wild. Like this one, he has a tube down his throat as he's texting me,

A (24:47)

yeah, that's sorry, this is death.

C (24:50)

And, yeah, this all happened overnight. And he's had tubes down his throat and he can't talk on the phone or FaceTime right now. So at this point, I call the BS and I'm like, look, I know everything. And I tell him, I'm like, I know everything. This is what happened last night. I don't get why you did this. And he's still trying to lie to me. He's still trying to lie. And I tell him, I'm done with this bullshit. I don't understand why he did this to me. He owed me a bunch of money because his wallet was missing. Right. And he would.

B (25:21)

So you'd been paying for things.

C (25:23)

So I'd been paying for. Like he would say, I want. My car's out gas, like, can you send me 40 bucks? And I'd booked the photographer and he'd said he was going to pay me back and, oh, I need another 20 bucks for gas. I don't have my wal. Anyway, he owed me just over a thousand dollars. And I know you always say you don't expect to get it back, right? Like, if you give somebody money, don't expect it back. Yeah, yeah.

A (25:46)

But if you could get it, that would be awesome, right?

C (25:49)

So literally two days later, I remember it was the first couple days of November, he says that he wants to meet me and explain everything and why he did everything, and he wants to pay me back. Okay. And so I call his bluff. He still says that he lives at this mansion. He's still saying that he lives. Right. I'm like, well, meet me there, prove that you live there, and we will talk about all of this inside.

A (26:15)

Well, before we get to that, are you now going back through the relationship and questioning everything?

B (26:22)

Everything?

C (26:23)

Of course, absolutely. And every instance of emergency that has come up, whether it's the shooting or his dad's heart attack or his seizure at work or anything. And there's been other stuff sprinkled in there, too, about the ex wife, like trying to kidnap the son and just all sorts of dramas. And I'm like, well, none of this is real, clearly. And he's still insisting that most of it is, but he wants to explain the hospital thing. So I'm like, I will meet you at your place if that's where you live. If that's true, let me in the door and we will talk about this.

B (27:01)

Yeah, yeah.

C (27:02)

And I know at this point, he doesn't live there.

A (27:06)

Right.

C (27:07)

I have spoken to one of his friends, his only friend. I had a phone call with him.

A (27:12)

Who was that?

C (27:14)

His friend is basically his only friend left out of their friend group. He watches his son sometimes. They have kids that are the same age.

B (27:23)

Okay.

C (27:24)

So we had a big conversation about him. And he said that their friend group all kind of abandoned him because of all the lies and the erratic behavior.

B (27:35)

That tracks.

C (27:36)

He told me that he has not lived in that house for three years and he has not worked at that place for four years. Oh, oh.

A (27:48)

Was he ever the presidente?

C (27:49)

He was. All of it was true years ago. All of it was true years ago.

A (27:55)

Did he tell you anything about the ex wife?

C (27:58)

Yes. So apparently he got into drugs, got fired, and that was his downfall, basically.

A (28:07)

I mean, the sweating reaction.

C (28:10)

The sweating. Okay, so, well, there's another kind of reveal coming that we'll explain this wedding. Okay.

B (28:19)

Can't wait.

C (28:19)

Back to going to his place to prove that he still lives there. He has his location sharing on still, right? And so I see he's on a street right by this mansion. And so I'm like, what is he gonna do? And so I told my friends, I'm like, I'm sharing my location with you. I. I'm sharing it with the friend also. And I'm like, I don't know what his game plan is here because why would he have me show up? Why would you share it? So he tells me he'll meet me there, but he warns me, he's like, you've got to be careful. There's going to be police everywhere and you could be in danger. He's like, now you've got a target on your back.

A (29:03)

What the hell does that mean?

C (29:05)

So again, that's similar to what he said, that he had a target on his back this whole time. People were watching him. People were out to get him, right? So he's like, you can come, but just be careful. And if anything happens on the way, call me. Don't call anyone else, call me. And so I'm like, what the hell? And I'm like, I have to go and find out what is happening. I'm curious. I'm like, what is. What is gonna happen? And so I've got my friends watching my location. I got people looking out for me. And so I drive over there. He is parked like a block away. And the houses are huge. It's this cul de sac. They're massive. It's the same house. He showed me pictures of, you know, like, of him and his son there. And it was exactly what he had described. But the street is dark, it is quiet. There is nobody around. Absolutely nobody there.

A (30:00)

I don't like it.

C (30:00)

And his location is now off. And so I texted him, I'm like, where are you? No response. No response. Eventually got ahold of him, call him. I'm like, there's nobody here. What the fuck is going on? And he said, oh. It was swarming with police. I had to flee. They were on my tail. It was dangerous. I had to get out of there. And so I'm like, do I knock on this door? And the friend is like, don't knock on the door. It's probably some innocent family.

A (30:31)

Like, yeah, for real.

C (30:32)

Don't bother them kind of thing.

A (30:33)

Right? I wouldn't get out of the car. I'm freaked out for you right now.

C (30:37)

Oh, I was nervous, but it was. It's a very affluent area and there's nobody on the street. It's silent. It's suburbia to the max. Like, it's fin.

A (30:51)

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C (33:47)

So the next day I spoke to the friend and he's like, thanks for not knocking on the door. That would have been bad news kind of thing. But when he was saying that he was at the hospital, he knew he was with his son and so he had his son. The whole time he was telling me he was in the hospital, they were going to the neighbors. Like, I don't know if it was trick or treating or visiting. He said they were doing something with the kids. A mutual friend of theirs had their kid and he was taking his kid and the wife that was with him. Like, the other couple said that he went to his car to get something and left the son with them for a minute and then he was gone for a really long time. And so she went to see what was up and found him. Remember, he has his kid at this point, slumped over his wheel of car with a bag of white powder. Oh, my God. And I'm like, he had his son. And so at this point, I'm like, this kid's in danger. This kid is in danger.

A (34:57)

Devastating. Yeah.

C (34:58)

And okay, so now a couple days later is when everything is explained. So I get a phone call a couple days later, and I don't usually pick up the phone if I don't know the number. Like, I just hate being bothered. I'm like, this is my time. If I don't know you, you can leave a message. But for some reason, I answered it. I don't know why, but I picked this call up, and it was this woman's voice. And she says, is this Claire? And I'm like, yeah. She's like, this is Ryan's mom. And I'm like, excuse me. This woman, I've never met her. I've never spoken to her. She was the one that he said, don't ever speak to. You know, she's in cahoots with my ex wife. She says, first of all, are you okay? I. In my head, I'm like, I don't know how you got my number. Like, what is happening? She said, first of all, are you safe? Are you safe? Are you and the girls safe? And I'm like, what is happening? And she said, I'm really proud that you figured it out as quickly as you did. She said her son is a sociopathic, narcissistic liar, and he has a pattern of doing this to women and swooping in and saving the day. And he was engaged after a week to the last one, and they had a court order against them for some housing fraud. She says that he and David are opioid addicts.

B (36:34)

And so him and the dad are in on it together.

C (36:37)

Together, they cover for each other. They go to hospitals together to get drugs and IVs for their withdrawal symptoms.

A (36:45)

Oh, my God. And that is his dad? Actually, yes.

C (36:52)

Yeah.

B (36:52)

Is she still with the dad or she. She divorced him?

C (36:54)

No, no, no, no.

B (36:55)

She.

C (36:55)

They divorced when he was a boy.

B (36:57)

Wow.

C (36:58)

Like a young kid. Because apparently he was abusive and had problems.

B (37:02)

And now they're abusing their hospitals, and that's why he keeps going to the hospital.

C (37:06)

They keep covering for each other. Aunt's house is. Is the dad's sister's place, and yes, they are living there in the basement. Now, dad was not moving to the city, and Buying a house. Ryan had bankrupted his father because he hadn't been working for three, four years. And they were doing drugs and had no money, and they had to get rid of the house. And so they were moving in with the sister in the basement. And he had been living with his dad the whole time in that shitty little room I told you about with the horrible. With nothing on the floor, the old bed and stuff. Right. That kind of was when it clicked that a lot of the things that he had told me were technically true. But from four or five years ago, he did have this job. There was evidence on the company LinkedIn. There were videos of him on the news talking about how he was reshaping corporate culture. There was announcements of him being the new president of the company. So that was true a while ago. The same thing with the house. Like, he did send me pictures of the house inside, outside, him and his kid and his dad. And I remember looking it up on the real estate websites afterward, and there was an article about this house. And it was about how that was this custom build, architecture, architectural wonder. You know, it was just like this insight of the house, and I recognized it from the pictures. And so the job, the house, it all technically had been true, just not in the present. Like, just. It was three or four or five years ago. The mom said that when the divorce was going down, when they were separating.

A (39:05)

Wait, who? Him and his ex wife or the mom?

C (39:07)

Him and the ex wife? Yeah, Ryan and the ex wife, when they were separating, they were gonna sell the house. And she had been storing some of her stuff there because they had the room. And she said that when she went to get her boxes and things, she found just envelopes of drugs bought from the Internet in with her own things that he was hiding from the wife and that they are still married. That's why he didn't have any divorce documents. And he had just printed one off the Internet. And when I looked at it closer, I was like, oh, my God, it says Court of Queen's Bench, not King's Bench. And so he had just filled in some blanks and printed this off, and he's still married and won't sign divorce papers.

B (39:59)

Oh, my God.

C (40:03)

Wow. Yeah. So the kidney stones were not kidney stones ever.

B (40:07)

It was drugs.

C (40:08)

It was drugs. The dad never had the heart attack?

B (40:12)

Of course not.

C (40:13)

Because I spoke to the brother, and he was just like, this is what he does. This is what he does. And the snacks and stuff under the sink. Yeah, I found them under my own sink in my Bathroom, Okay. Because he would be in the bathroom for a very long time, passing his kidney stones, right? And his mom asked me, she was like, how is he with cough syrup and stuff? And I'm like, I don't know. But I found these weird drinks in my bathroom cabinet, and I found them at his dad's place too. And she's like, oh, that's the he makes. I. I don't know. I don't know, like street drugs or anything. But there was the name of some drink that you can mix with that sounds familiar. I remember, like, looking it up and my friends telling me it was something like purple. Purple drink or like something like that. And that's why I couldn't wake him up in the mornings. And he. The other thing too, was that he would go out to his car and he said that this was the only space he could write good music. And he would be in his car for like an hour or two, and then he'd come back. And obviously he's been out there getting high and this is why I can't wake him up in the mornings. But there was complete outrage that he had not just the outrage came more from the fact that he was doing it in my house than the fact that he'd been lying to me the whole time about it. Like, he was doing this and he was in my place with my kids sleeping. Sometimes, you know, they were upstairs, he would come over later in the evening, they were sleeping. And the fact that he would be in the bathroom pretending to have kidney stones while he was mixing. Whatever. Like, I was embarrassed. I was ashamed that my instincts hadn't figured it out quicker and that I. I felt like a fool. And I've seen that going back and rereading messages with my friends, with his one friend, you know, I feel like such a fool. And that is something that definitely makes you question yourself and feeds that anger afterwards as well.

A (42:14)

How do you feel talking to his mom like that alone is.

C (42:19)

I'm.

A (42:19)

Mind blowing.

C (42:20)

I was kind of. It was mind blowing. But I had had a couple days to come to terms with the fact that everything was a lie, right? And when she called and she was sounding like she wanted to make sure I was okay and started telling me all about his history. She says, if I can help you, like, support the girls. And I'm like, well, if I can help support getting the ex wife the custody after what I just heard about whatever I can do. And so we met and we had coffee and we just heard all about the past and the Upbringing and how the dad had won him over as a young boy because he made the money and she didn't have much to offer him, and he kind of bought his affection, and he never wanted to leave.

A (43:06)

This is so sad.

C (43:08)

The other brother, the one that I briefly spoke to, is a cop, and he was like, okay, wait. If you want to get a protection order, this is how we can go and do it. And the mom is like, I'll come with you if you want somebody. I'm, like, shaking.

B (43:22)

Right?

C (43:22)

I'm, like, shaking.

B (43:23)

Stay away from our family member.

A (43:25)

And they have, like, a. A system in place at this point. Like, this is a pattern with him.

C (43:30)

Yeah. Oh, my God. So this is why I wasn't allowed to speak to the mom. Right. So I'm really grateful that she reached out and that she. She just wanted to help me, and she. It. It wasn't loyalty to her son at all. It was, he does this to women, and he can't keep doing it to people. And let me know how I can help you. And I think she was amazing for that.

A (43:53)

Well, as a mom, like, how did you feel as a mom? And also, did she speak to that? Like, how did she. You know, it is her son.

B (44:02)

That's hard.

C (44:03)

She was, like, disgusted.

B (44:04)

Yeah.

C (44:05)

She was disgusted at the fact that he had been doing drugs in my house with the children in bed upstairs. She was just like, change your locks. Like, just be super careful. She's like, are you and the girls okay? She kept checking in with me over the next few days, the next few weeks, she would kind of check in and see if I was doing okay. So that was really sweet.

B (44:26)

Yeah.

C (44:27)

He did get in touch one more time. He wanted to meet and explain and give me back the money. And I said, I don't care about whatever you're gonna try and justify or explain. It's all a lie. I don't care about it. I don't have time for this. Just at least do the right thing and pay me back. Just do that. I'm struggling, you know, I'm a single mom, duh. So I'm like, well, we're doing it somewhere public. You're not coming to my place. And if he had some reason, he didn't want to do it publicly. I can't even remember.

B (44:59)

He.

C (44:59)

He had some reason. And I. So he's like, no, I have to come see you at your place. I'm like, you're not coming in. I'll meet you on the doorstep, but you're not coming in. And I'm in my condo and he's on the phone and I can see his location. Again, he's sharing his location and he's a block away. Again, he' sitting on the phone, not coming in. And he's like, well, am I welcome? I'm not going to come if I'm not welcome. I'm not going to come if you're just going to judge me. Like, what.

A (45:27)

What's the status on your order of protection at this point?

C (45:29)

I actually didn't go get one.

A (45:31)

Okay.

C (45:31)

I didn't. Okay. But I did change my locks and blocked him on all the accounts and everything.

B (45:36)

Yeah.

C (45:37)

So he's sitting a block outside my place, not coming in, trying to ask if he's welcome and giving reasons not to come in. But he's like, right there. And he starts sending me screenshots of his online banking. And it shows that he's trying to transfer me money, but it says that the transfer limits exceeded.

A (45:56)

We've seen this before. We've seen this.

C (45:59)

And he says it's because of child support, which his mom said he's never paid. He's never paid. And so then he says, okay, I'm gonna go get cash from a gas station. I'll be right back. And there's one at the end of my street. Like, it's close. Location turns off. And he stops responding.

A (46:17)

Right.

C (46:17)

Just doesn't respond. And so I'm like, you know what? I know the address of the aunt's place. I'm fucking going there.

B (46:26)

Good for you.

C (46:27)

Because I figured that's where he's gone.

A (46:29)

Oh, you're afraid?

B (46:31)

Well, she's just sick of it at this point, it seems.

C (46:33)

Yeah, I am sick of it. And I'm like, at least give me the money back. Do one good thing here. And so I go there and I show up at the door and this older lady answers, and I'm like, oh, it's. I need to see Ryan.

B (46:49)

Yeah, yeah.

C (46:51)

And at this point, I start recording on my phone. So I have the entire recording of this interaction, which I just re listened to ahead of recording this, and.

A (47:01)

Oh, chilling.

C (47:03)

Yes. So she invites me in and she's like, you must be Claire. We thought Ryan was with you. And I'm like, yeah, I thought so, too. He was supposed to be giving me the money he owes me and just disappeared after. And I recount everything that has happened, and I'm like, look, he married me in this ceremony. He lied about his job. He lied about his house. He is still married. And she's like, we just thought he was so happy with you, and, you know, you were just this dream girl, and you were everything to him. And I was like, so did I.

B (47:37)

And.

C (47:38)

But she's like, why would he do this? Like, why? He's such a liar. Why would he be.

B (47:41)

Does she.

A (47:42)

So she had no idea they were doing drugs in her house?

C (47:44)

Yeah. Like, no. She didn't seem to have any idea. And she seemed appalled. And then her phone rings.

B (47:50)

Okay.

C (47:51)

And it's Ryan's dad, Straub, who's in the basement. Who's in the basement. And so she's like, oh, do you want to. Do you want to talk to David? And I'm like, absolutely not. David texted me saying that he'd had a heart attack and was in the hospital. Like, he's been lying to me the whole time, too. And she's like, whoa. She's like, I'm so sorry. You were a strong lady, and we don't understand. And I'm like, I don't understand either. I don't. Get out.

A (48:20)

How did she not know what these two were doing in the basement?

C (48:23)

Honestly, I don't know. But she pulls out her. Her purse, and she's got this yellow envelope. She's like, well, at least let me give you the money he owes you. And she pulls out a thousand dollars in cash. And she's. I'm like, it's not your problem.

A (48:40)

Exactly. A thousand dollars in an envy. What?

C (48:43)

I'm like, in my head, I'm like, why do you have a thousand dollars?

B (48:45)

Why do you know that it's.

C (48:47)

Yeah.

B (48:47)

Like, right?

C (48:49)

And I'm like, it's not your problem. It's his problem. I'm not gonna take your money. And she's like, I'll get it back from David. So she insists, and so she gives me this money, sends me on my way. And then I text Ryan, and I'm like, got the money. Thank your aunt for that. And he's like, you fucking scumbag. And just unloads on me. And so I'm like, so I. I block all his accounts, his number, everything. And I do end up calling Child and Family Services.

A (49:22)

Good.

C (49:23)

Because the cop that I spoke to was like, if you are genuinely worried about this kid, make the phone call. And I wrestled with it for a while, but I was like, I am worried about this child. He was doing drugs with him, and I saw where he's been living on this shitty little mattress. And, like, now he's lying about this. And I was told that he used to coach the kids hockey team and then wasn't allowed to be around kids anymore because he was showing up under the influence. And I'm like, absolutely. I'm making this phone call and he texts me from another number and he's like, like, don't take my kid away. Don't. How dare you take my kid away. And so I didn't hear anything more about that. I don't know what happened. I did reach out to his mom recently and just, you know, like, hope you're doing well and thanking her again. And she said that nothing has changed. They are still unable to get divorced. They aren't able to get custody. The system is just not. It's not in their favor. And I don't know why, but there's

A (50:29)

like so much potential evidence. I feel like also if his brother, the police officer knows all this, and

C (50:36)

he said that basically his brother had committed bigamy by going ahead with a marriage. And so he's like, you could report him for that.

B (50:44)

I still want to know, do you have any thoughts on why, why the marriage thing? Like, why the pretend marriage? Like, why. What's the.

C (50:54)

I don't know. I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense to me.

B (50:58)

It's almost like he just wanted to see if you would do. Or maybe he was just living in some kind of fantasy. Like, well, what did he get?

C (51:05)

And he's kind of alluded to that at the end when he tried to explain himself, he said he was on the edge of get his life back together. And so if he just pretended that he was still this president and he still had his money and he could still provide a solid relationship and a decent life, then I wouldn't notice the reality of the last few years. And I don't know if he lied so much that he had convinced himself of this or the reality was not that this just happened like last year and you were just about to turn it around. It was like, yeah, you've actually been a bum, not working, doing a bunch of drugs in your dad's basement for three or four years now. And it's just interesting to think that with somebody that is that kind of person, you know, that big personality, that achievement driven, did really well in school, became president, got this fancy house, like had the capability to do that, that outgoing, extroverted, must have been smart. I mean, got an mba, got very far ahead in the world. But is there something internally that doesn't allow them to fail? You know what I mean? Like, if somebody has. I am the president. That's my identity. I have a mansion. That's my. I am part of the elite. That's my identity. Is current reality is this is their brain doing something to prevent them from acknowledging that. And did he genuinely believe that he was on the cusp of turning things around because his immediate situation, like, his brain wouldn't allow him to believe it? That's what I wonder.

A (52:46)

I mean, I don't know enough about addiction, and I know that it's a disease, and I think both things can be true or that can be a devastating thing. Sure. I think the fact that his dad is part of this is heartbreaking. Doesn't change the impact.

B (53:01)

Well, it's because there's power in numbers. Because I imagine. I imagine, Claire, you probably didn't think anything of it because you're like, oh, that's his dad.

C (53:08)

Like, he's.

B (53:09)

He's with his dad.

C (53:10)

And he was nice to me, right?

B (53:11)

Yeah, he's nice to me. He's not gonna be lying.

C (53:13)

He was sweet.

B (53:14)

Like, I didn't think the dad would be in the car when you were following him and you couldn't nail him down on. On the location app. I was like, oh, this is gonna be Ryan for sure. But then I was like, the dad. And then I. I immediately found myself trusting him a little bit more, trusting Ryan a little bit more, like, oh, the dad's there, so there's gotta be some kind of explanation.

C (53:31)

Right?

B (53:32)

But the dad was in.

C (53:33)

There always was, right? I mean, there always was.

A (53:36)

Wow, that's hard and sad. How do you, like. Do you have any sympathy paired with the heartbreak and disgust?

B (53:45)

Or are you, like, fuck him. It was only eight weeks. Goodbye.

A (53:48)

I think absolutely fine.

C (53:50)

I mean, I have sympathy for the son and for the wife. I guess they're not divorced. Dealing with this for so many years, and the mom and just everyone whose life has been affected by his chaos, I have zero sympathy for him.

A (54:09)

When did this end? When was this?

C (54:12)

This was November 2024.

B (54:15)

Oh, my God.

C (54:16)

We met at the end of September 2024.

A (54:20)

Oh, my God.

B (54:23)

So since then, what has happened?

C (54:25)

A couple of my friends kept him on Facebook, and very quickly, he was gushing about some other woman, and she's, like, the light of his life.

B (54:34)

And, oh, my God, he's gonna scam someone else now, right?

C (54:39)

Yeah. And I. That's why I wanted to tell this, because I'm like, I'm. I'm not a stupid person.

B (54:46)

Like, no, no.

C (54:48)

Quite smart. And I still fell for it because of my upbringing. My insecurities, my experiences, and the love bombing and the trauma bonding. And I'm a smart person, and I. I don't want, like, listening back to what I've said. There is a sense of almost shame in having allowed it to happen, but I don't want shame to win. And so I want to tell the story. So other people that might be having issues or something's not adding up or they might have a gut feeling and they haven't acted on it, might actually do it, you know, like. Cause I don't want this to happen to people.

A (55:29)

This will help many people. So, I mean. I mean, even just thinking about hearing about his tumultuous family, you coming from a tumultuous family, like, he knew exactly what story to tell you to keep you on the line. It makes so much sense. Looking at it in hindsight, in the moment, you don't expect somebody to be doing this, because this is crazy. And we've been doing this podcast for a while. Yeah. And I'm still like. Like, I'm. I'm speechless with this one.

B (56:00)

I guess I want to know. And this goes back to what you were saying in the beginning about your borderline personality disorder. Going back to that. How did this affect your borderline personality disorder? Did it affect it at all? Or did it affect how you. Like, did it make you feel worse about yourself, or were you happy to, you know, be someone who could learn quickly about someone and get out of it?

C (56:20)

I think I was happy. I was proud that I was out of it as quickly as I was.

B (56:25)

Well, because also, it's nice when you. When you. You feel like something's happening and then it's verified.

A (56:31)

Oh, I.

C (56:31)

There's something like, good.

A (56:32)

Feeling good about Mama gave you the missing puzzle pieces. That must have felt nice.

B (56:37)

Yeah.

C (56:38)

And I don't think. I don't think this happens just to naive people. Like, it happens to people that are empathetic. And. Absolutely.

B (56:46)

There's no stupidity.

C (56:48)

Yeah. You're wired to take care of other people. And when you haven't been taken care of yourself and you grow up sort of equating love with conditions and instability. I've done a lot of work in therapy since then, and I can see how my attachment wounds kind of made me susceptible to something, mirrored that intensity. And they offered protection.

B (57:09)

Absolutely.

C (57:10)

And I just hope that if somebody listening recognizes themselves in that and kind of pauses before they get pulled deeper into something chaotic, then it's worth putting this out there and potentially having judgment. And I just. I really Hope people are kind. And I really appreciate that. Hannah looked into BPD and gave that caveat before the first part of the episode because it can get a bad rep online. And even in some of the comments that I've seen since part one aired, like, there was somebody that said her best friend has BPD and that the glasses, like the rose colored glasses, are definitely rosier, but that she's the best person she's ever known. And like, I dealt with it not knowing what it was for almost 20 years, thinking it was just anxiety or the. I was wired wrong. And I just believed for years and years that I just didn't belong in this world. I was too sensitive because everyone told me I was too sensitive, I cared too much. And it can be disorienting and you can feel like an outsider and you can feel like an idiot for believing and backing people like this because your heart attaches to the things that you've always wanted and never had. And, you know, I, I wanted to feel protected. Whenever he said there was danger, he wanted to protect me. I wanted to feel needed. And this person made me a priority. And so it kind of tapped into all the things that I thought I'd been missing. And I don't want people to be judgmental without sort of knowing how that can be. Having grown up just believing you weren't enough and that the person that was supposed to love you, I. E. My mom or past partners, you had to earn love. And it was a big life lesson. I mean, I definitely way more even keeled these days. I mean, I've done a lot of therapy, a lot of self work, a lot of reflection and yeah, I mean, I also just want to say, if you have a friend that has BPD or has these kind of tendencies, don't tell them they're an idiot, but maybe just spend some time, learn to understand them. Like, where that may have come from.

A (59:47)

Back to the question we asked you a while ago. What would you say to that listener now?

C (59:53)

Yeah, I would say, like, if something is whirlwind and feels urgent and you get swept up in it, and especially if you've had a series of relationships where you've been treated poorly or you have never felt enough because of how you were raised or who you've been with, if something's urgent and exciting and, you know, but real stability, it doesn't rush you. And if somebody's bonding with you through emergencies instead of consistency, then that is a red flag. And so I learned to learn to verify and not just Trust and, you know, like, it's good to give the benefit of the doubt. But why didn't I look up the court of kings bench before? Right? Like, why didn't you know? So, hindsight. Don't worry. Yeah, it is. And, I mean, if someone's life story is complicated, it should still withstand basic rape sex.

A (60:51)

Of course, if it sounds confusing, then it's probably there's a reason.

C (60:56)

If you feel confused more often than you feel calm, then that confusion is information. Right? Like, don't override it by what can be. And that's so good.

A (61:07)

I love that idea that confusion is not empty. You don't have to have the answer. You don't have to know why you feel off. The confusion alone is the information. Like, I. Like,

B (61:18)

yeah.

C (61:19)

It's your nervous system asking for clarity, I think.

A (61:22)

And I like the rush, obviously, a lot. A big commonality with these stories is people really rushing you and putting pressure on you and sweeping you.

B (61:29)

And that's exactly what he did.

A (61:31)

But I can only speak to me. But for me in therapy, trying to learn the difference between anxiety and intuition was kind of that, like, my anxiety feels urgent, feels rushed.

B (61:42)

Is this my intuition or is this my anxiety?

A (61:44)

Yeah. And it's hard. You have to define it for yourself. For me, I was like, if I need immediate validation, like, if I need this person to tell me my outfit looks good or else I'm gonna go, I'm like, that's anxiety. When I have serious true feelings of a gut instinct, like, it is calmer. And that's just me. Everybody's gotta figure it out for yourself. But I really identify with that. Claire, I'm so happy that you're safe and that your kids are safe. I really think this could have ended very differently. And I am proud of you for using this as a platform to share the story. Because we hate when these stories end in a way that's kind of hopeless, where you're like, the judicial system or whatever system you're trying to work in, and it's just kind of shrugging at you, like.

B (62:22)

But she did say it ends nicely.

A (62:24)

Well, yeah. You are with someone, so thank you

B (62:27)

so much for sharing that, because that makes us happy. Yeah.

C (62:31)

My friends actually call him Mr. Green Flag.

B (62:33)

Oh, that's nice. Oh, my gosh.

C (62:36)

Yeah, he is. It's funny. When we met, I told him, I'm like, no offense, gonna do a background check. He is solid. He shows up nonstop, and it's almost been a year now, and we're gonna be moving in with Him. And he's already painted one of the spare rooms pink for my little one. And he puts them to bed and reads them stories. And everyone I know has been like, he's just really genuine. Like my dad, too, who's seen me with all these crazy people, like, these tough experiences. He's just like, I really like him.

B (63:11)

We like him, too.

C (63:13)

Yeah, he's wonderful. I know.

A (63:15)

I want a picture of you guys. And then I'd love the recording of the wrap.

B (63:18)

Keep us updated. I want to hear more.

C (63:20)

And oh, my God, yes, I have to send you the wrap. Please do that.

B (63:24)

And again, we can't thank you enough for sharing because you have no idea how you're going to help someone else. So thank you. And we just so, so grateful to that you're here. And we want updates and pictures and

A (63:33)

the rap, because we're masochists. We need to hear this rap.

B (63:38)

We have to hear it. Thank you again, Claire.

A (63:40)

We love you. Wow.

B (63:54)

There's so much to unpack. Can you believe. I could not believe the dad and him are addicted to together?

A (64:02)

I mean, I think right off the bat, we can extend the sympathy to addiction. And the fact that people go to such extreme lengths and become people that they don't always want to be, and it doesn't change the impact of their damage. Like we like to say, it's not necessarily your fault, but it is your responsibility.

B (64:21)

Your responsibility.

A (64:22)

Yeah, but this story was really hard to hear, given what it sounds like their addiction drove them to. I mean, we can start. I saw a couple questions after the first one where people were like, I can't wait to find out why it's called the Time Traveling Dogfish.

B (64:38)

Yes.

A (64:39)

And the reason we went there is because this is an interesting case where Ryan was not pretending to be somebody else. He was pretending to be somebody he used to be. He should have that job.

B (64:52)

And then the addiction.

C (64:54)

Yeah.

A (64:54)

So he was the. He was pretending to be the person that he was before his addiction took that away. And even just saying, I lied because I'm so close to getting my life together. I'm so close to being that person again. It's like he's living in the past. And it's so sad to see. I mean, that's not. That's not who he can be now.

B (65:12)

But it's. It's interesting because it's almost like he wants to be that person. Like he's still living there. That's where he wants to be. But the addiction has kind of taken that from him. And no thanks to the dad. But, like, also, he's his own adult person. You know what I mean?

A (65:29)

It's really a devastating, devastating thing.

B (65:32)

And the.

A (65:32)

The impact is so much more than sometimes you can realize. So to go to the beginning, there's so much here. Borderline personality disorder. Again, we talked a lot about it, but I just was so caught up on the ways that she described wanting to feel chosen.

B (65:50)

Yes.

A (65:52)

And how humble that was. Yeah.

B (65:54)

I mean, you're willing to put up with a lot of things just to feel chosen and that. That is. It's an honest feeling. It's like, I'm willing to put up with this because what if no one else chooses me? Like, what if this is my only option? You get that insecurity. It sucks.

A (66:14)

She said, I didn't feel like I was being lied to. I felt like I was being needed.

B (66:19)

Yeah, I wrote that down. That hit me, too, girl.

A (66:22)

Oh, my God. Because it's so real where she. It's like her unmet needs were such that she wanted to be. You know, she wanted this to be the romantic, wonderful partnership. That's why she was, like, cleaning his dad's house, you know, like, she wants to be a wonderful partner. And she is. Like, she can be. And now she is. Which I'm very happy to hear.

B (66:42)

Yes.

A (66:42)

But you just.

B (66:44)

Those unmet needs are so incredible. Like, they're so. They're so prominent, and people know what they're doing. Like, you can when someone has an unmet need and you know it, and you can, like, kind of exploit it and use it to your advantage.

A (67:01)

Absolutely. And I think that's where BPD comes into play, because like we said at the beginning, of course, all of us are vulnerable and want to be loved, but it's. I was going to read some comments from the episode last week because some of you shared your experiences with BPD and it was helpful, I think, to understand how it really impacts people. Let me find the one. Okay. I used to. This is London. You wrote it publicly, so I hope it's okay that I'm sharing who said it. I used to be in physical pain for borderline personality disorder. Like, it would literally hurt when I felt lonely and empty. I used to feel lonely, and I dated a lot in the past because I needed someone so much to fill the void. Fear of abandonment and rejection is definitely a problem. I can't handle rejection anymore, so I keep to myself instead of putting myself out there sometimes. When I. When she got older, the B. P. D. Calmed down, so that helped. I Don't feel intense emptiness anymore. That's so.

C (67:54)

Wow.

A (67:55)

Unimaginable, honestly. And. And I can't empathize. Like, I don't know what y' all are going through, who experienced that, but I'm very grateful that you're sharing because I think it will help a lot of people.

B (68:06)

Thank you for sharing stuff like that. Because this person sharing that, that's gonna make Claire feel a little more seen too. And it's just gonna grow that community and that safe place. But that's so. What an intense feeling to feel actual physical pain.

C (68:20)

Yeah.

B (68:20)

And then it's like, well, people are like, why do you stay? Like, why would you let him do that? When you're in that head space, there's no other way to be. Like, there's no. There's no reasoning with it.

A (68:31)

Yeah. Especially not having a ton of education around it.

C (68:34)

Yes.

A (68:35)

I imagine getting diagnosed is very difficult, and you just think there's something wrong with you.

B (68:39)

Right.

A (68:40)

When there's really not. You're not broken. You just have, like, am I broken for having allergies? Like.

C (68:45)

Exactly.

A (68:45)

You know what I mean?

B (68:46)

I hate that it's exploited so easily.

A (68:49)

I think the fact that he met her during, like, a really horrible, chaotic week in her own life also contributes to this. Because if. If somebody meets me when I'm, like, messy and sad and, like, not at my worst.

C (69:02)

Right.

A (69:03)

And they still want to. I mean, not at my best.

B (69:05)

Not at your best.

A (69:05)

Yeah. My worst. You get it. You got it. You know, then you're like, oh, my gosh, they like me at this stage.

B (69:12)

Yep.

A (69:12)

And also, she was so used to chaos, so it was comfortable to. To have that much drama at the beginning of the relationship. Which, man, Is that a potential. I mean, I would call it a red flag. And I think it's hard for sure, because sometimes you're like, oh, my gosh, he's not causing all the drama. I'm not causing all the drama. It's just life. But if there is a lot of drama at the very early stage of a relationship, it's something to look out for. Yeah, I think.

B (69:38)

Absolutely.

A (69:39)

Oh, how about his. My ex wife is crazy. My mom is crazy. Don't listen to them. They're out to get me.

B (69:44)

Well, obviously, he's setting that up. He's trying to set the standard for what is not true. Like, he's. He's trying to. He's pre. Pre. What do you call it? Like, he's. He's setting it up so that she's planting the Seeds.

C (69:57)

Yeah.

B (69:57)

He's planting the right seeds so that whenever she does hear from the mom or the ex wife that she knows, oh, he said they were going to say that, or he said they were

A (70:05)

going to be crazy, he was really good at it. And he also, I think, targeted someone who had a tough family background. So his story was even more believable and sympathetic.

B (70:15)

Yes. To say, oh, I.

A (70:17)

My background's tough, too.

B (70:18)

Yeah, I can relate to that. So I. Yes, absolutely.

A (70:22)

Oh, God. Speaking of his mom, though, do we want to talk about how we were able to get in touch with her?

B (70:28)

So we talked to Ryan's mom, and I think it's commendable what she did. She. She basically said, I'm helping him by making sure he can't hurt others. And I think that's. That's so commendable because it's like telling someone with a fever to stop having a fever. Like, if this is how you are, the addiction, specifically. The addiction specifically, it's not just as easy as saying, stop it. Right. And so if she can protect others, especially Claire's kids, like, this is what she's. She feels is her duty to say, hey, this is my son. And I know that this is affecting your kids. And so she's protecting Claire's kids, which I think is really nice of her.

A (71:06)

We've seen a lot of parents on the show enable their kids and not want to accept that they are hurting people and that they would do this kind of thing.

B (71:14)

Right?

A (71:15)

And I know y' all in the comments are always like, oh, if my kid did that. But, like, this was. Is, I think, a heart. Like a heartwarming example of somebody who still loves their son and wants to be there for their son, but also is like, Claire's a mom, too. Claire has children, too, and they are also just as important for me to protect. And, man, that must be so hard to watch your. I mean, ex husband, to watch your son. I don't even know where you begin with trying to help someone like that. I know that sometimes the best thing you can do for an addict is not enable them and just kind of cut them out to some extent. Like, it's just, like, the worst experience. But, man, she's my heart. She really stepped up, and that's. That's hard to do. So a lot of. She didn't want to come on the podcast, but we were able to talk,

B (72:08)

and I can understand that. I can totally understand. And she. Because she wants to have, like, you still have a loyalty to your child. You Know, and so maybe I just feel like she made the right choice for her and for her family. But I. I do commend her for at least trying to help, even though it's not her problem. Like, it's not her responsibility. But he's a. He's a grownup. But he's still your son.

A (72:29)

He's still your son.

B (72:30)

Yeah.

A (72:31)

I mean, I hope he gets the help he needs. I'm so happy that Claire is doing well and her kids are feeling better. I think a quick roundup of some common things that happen in our. On our show. Like, very quick progression of the relationship. He swooping in to be like a savior early on, which is.

B (72:51)

And not saying it's bad because there are. There are quick relationships that turn out great, but in this particular case and so many others. Yeah, they kind of turn it. Turn out poorly because we. Sometimes it's. As humans, we just rush into it because it's like, oh, this is so good. Yep, let's do it.

C (73:07)

Let's do. Let's do it.

A (73:08)

And sometimes it works, baby.

B (73:10)

Yeah.

A (73:10)

And sometimes it does. I. I think, yeah, there's red flags and there are deal breakers. So when we say red flag, it doesn't always mean, like, absolutely not, but it does mean raise those eyebrows and look a little deeper.

B (73:21)

Yes.

A (73:21)

Like sharing his location with her a week in. To me, I was like, oh, he's tr.

B (73:27)

It was almost like he was trying too hard.

A (73:29)

Too soon. Way too soon, too intimate. Too soon. And also huge one. If anybody has any medical thing and they don't want you to go to the hospital or they don't want you to be part of the.

B (73:38)

They're like, no, no, don't.

A (73:40)

I don't like it. I mean, I understand people are private and maybe don't want to be seen in such a. Like, a vulnerable state, but, like, at least telling you, like, what hospital they're in and sending a care package or something so you can. I mean, not that you have to be verifying everything all the time, but, like, if they are really resistant to you being involved, I'm like, always.

B (74:03)

It's a little bit of a red flag.

A (74:05)

It's a. I mean, don't.

B (74:07)

They only were. They were in for a couple of weeks. So I can understand. Like, I can totally understand. I don't want you to go to the hospital. We've only been here a couple weeks. I get it. But you're sharing your location already like that, telling me that this should be okay. And the fact that it's not is a red flag in itself.

A (74:23)

Yeah. I mean, also, didn't he, like, want to FaceTime her when he was like, passive kidney stones, like, he's not worried about. I mean, quote.

B (74:32)

Yeah, it was wild.

A (74:34)

You guys commented for sure that the kidney stones is a really good way to cover up. Up withdrawal symptoms, so. Correct.

B (74:41)

Because who's gonna be like, let me see. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you're bleeding. If you say I'm bleeding, then you. You'll be able to physically see a cut. But if you're passing kidney stones, no one's gonna be like, let me see. Do you know what? I'm like, where's your boo boo? Like, no one's gonna say, let me see your penis. It's wild.

A (74:56)

Oh. Even though I know he wasn't actually passing kidney stones, I still get a little heebie jeepy feeling when we talk

C (75:03)

about it because that.

A (75:04)

Yeah. Sucks.

B (75:06)

Yes.

A (75:06)

Oh, Ryan.

B (75:07)

I've heard so many people that have gone through it and they're like, yeah, it's. It's one of the worst pains ever.

A (75:12)

Good lord. I mean, he. He certainly whipped up his sob story, even though he sure did himself as a. As a top executive and at one time he was. It's really, really hard to hear, but Claire is the best storyteller. And don't you just want her to, like, read you a story before bed? Like, what a voice.

B (75:31)

I just love her.

A (75:32)

I think she's awesome. I think. I hope her kids are okay and her new relationship is okay. Please send support her way. She is like, like one of us. She listens and has been part of the community for a while.

B (75:44)

She's a sleuthy.

A (75:45)

Just like sleuthy. Yeah. And I know that other episodes have helped her. So if you've been a past guest, just remember that your episodes are still reaching a lot of people. And it. It's because of everybody listening. Like, thanks for. Thanks for spreading. Spreading the good word.

C (76:00)

Yeah.

B (76:01)

That's why we're so grateful when you guys share because it's just so interesting how it can come full circle for someone else and help them. So just thank you so much. It really means a lot to us and to other listener. So thank you.

A (76:14)

Patreon Sign up. Come get bonus episodes. I'm doing another self defense in LA at the end of March last Sunday in March, I believe. So I'll. I'll share more about that. We're going to Crime Con end of May.

B (76:30)

I'm so excited.

A (76:32)

It's in Vegas. If you're crime.

B (76:37)

You know, I went to the crime con in Denver. We didn't have a booth last year. And so many people were like, where's your booth? Are you set up? So this year I'm really exc. Because I feel like I'm a little imposter syndromey.

C (76:48)

Like, I don't know.

B (76:49)

Is this for real? And so people were asking so much. And so this time we're going to be there. So I can't wait to see so many of you. There were so many people there that were like, just. They. They knew our show. And I was like, that's so cool. So thank you so much, you guys.

A (77:01)

I like our little niche in the true crime community because we're. We're not all like. We're not true crime. True crime. We're not like a date documentary. It's true crime light. It's crimes of the heart.

B (77:13)

Yeah.

A (77:14)

And I mean, hey, we. We're gonna be standing right alongside the Dateline people if we. If we are lucky. Oh, my God.

B (77:22)

Hello. For yes. Thank you so much, you guys. We appreciate your community and as always, trust.

C (77:29)

Trust your fem tuition.

A (77:32)

We should wrap it.

C (77:34)

Trust your femtuition.

B (77:37)

Never again.

A (78:02)

Sam.