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- [00:01]
David Green
Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate, the show where we cover how to build wealth in real estate with no fluff, no BS, and no sales pitches. I'm David Green and I've been doing this for over 10 years. I've seen the ups, the downs, and everything in between. This is the show where we pull back the curtain and show it to you, too. So if you want to build wealth through real estate or you just love learning about it, you found your home. What's up, everybody? This is Real Talk Real Estate, and you are listening to the David Green Show. All real estate, all the time. I'm joined today by Garrett Dion, who has come on to share some details about a deal that he bought. And I am not proud to say that Garrett originally reached out to have me look at the deal before he bought it, but I was so slow that I did not get back to him until it was already bought and this was scheduled. So such as the Life of David Green. So instead of going into the actual details of should he buy it, we're going to talk about how he bought it, what it looks like now, and what I think he should do moving forward. So if you've ever wanted to figure out how to put a portfolio together, what kind of questions people ask that have bought a couple properties, or if you're doing it right or wrong, you're in the right place because everybody thinks that they're doing it wrong. I do it wrong all the time. There is no right way to do real estate, but there is better ways and there's also new ways to think about it. Now, I and if I can get you to activate the creative portions of your brain, whether it's on an individual deal, seeing an angle you might have missed, or a way to construct a portfolio, a way to make money, a way to build wealth, that's what shows like this are all about, is to help you become the best investor you can be, the best version of you, which is not going to be the same as everyone else. You're not going to be following all of their blueprints. Sometimes it's going to be a green print like today, where I'm going to share my green print with Garrett. So, Garrett, thanks for being on the show. How are you today?
- [01:50]
Garrett Dion
Good. Thank you for having me. I pretty much had under contract when I submitted that anyway, so feel too bad.
- [01:56]
David Green
Well, thank you for your grace. Unfortunately, if anybody reaches out to me through any means other than my assistant, which would be helpavid green24.com or my email if I happen to be in town. Davidavid green24.com There's a very good chance it's not going to get seen right away. So I appreciate your grace there and I'm excited to learn about this deal and so is everybody else that's listening because we all want to know about, like other people's deals. It reminds me of these videos that were really popular five years ago. Brandon's daughter Rosie was super into these. My niece Hayden was into these. Where little kids would watch videos of other kids opening presents. You remember those?
- [02:33]
Garrett Dion
Hell yeah. That's what listening to bigger pockets felt like. Seven years.
- [02:38]
David Green
Yeah, that's exactly what I was going for. That's the analogy that I was trying to make, that listening to other people buy deals or talk about their deals is the equivalent of a five year old watching other kids open presents. And we always think, why would you want to watch somebody else open a present when you could get a present? But it's because you want to know what you could be getting when you open that present. With real estate, sometimes it's a box of chocolates and sometimes it's a box of snakes. And so the more that we learn what to do when that thing opens and how to handle it, the better equipped that we all are. So thanks for being on. Let's, let's get into this thing. Tell me about this deal. What area is it in? How much did you pay? What kind of property is it?
- [03:13]
Garrett Dion
Yep. So it's in Southern Maine. Westbrook, Maine is the town. It's right outside of Portland. And I bought it for 450,000. It's a duplex. Two bed, one bath each unit. It's a duplex, just split in half, single floor, ranch. So it's fairly small and it needed a lot of work. But me and my girlfriend had to be out of her apartment where I was living with her, so we needed to get something done pretty quick. And I was looking for a few months. And everything's pretty expensive around here for anyone who knows. So finally saw this deal. It needed a lot of work, but luckily I'm able to do like 90% of the work myself. So I hopped on it, paid 450,000, which was asking price. I probably could have got it for less, and I wish I'd offer less, but I panicked last minute because there was another offer on it and we needed somewhere to live. So that's what I ended up offering. And we got it and yeah, got to work.
- [04:29]
David Green
All right, what kind of work did you do? I'm curious.
- [04:32]
Garrett Dion
So pretty much everything on the inside, the kitchens were super outdated. Ripped out all the cabinets and countertops in both units. Completely gutted. One of the bathrooms added a new shower, tub, toilet, vanity, all that. It was like nasty old carpet throughout. The whole house smelled like a dog. Ripped all that out the day of closing. Came in and just ripped out all the carpet and then replaced it with, you know, clicked together final floor. So all the flooring, bathrooms, kitchen, some new appliances, new paint job. It essentially looks like a brand new place on the inside.
- [05:22]
David Green
All right, here we have it. This is the property itself. This is what it looked like when you bought it, correct?
- [05:27]
Garrett Dion
Yep.
- [05:28]
David Green
Okay, so how many square feet was this thing?
- [05:30]
Garrett Dion
It's about 1400. Just under. It's 13, 7 and change.
- [05:36]
David Green
And you mentioned it's a duplex. So is there another entrance on the back of it for the other unit?
- [05:40]
Garrett Dion
Yep, there's another door right in the center of it. Just like this picture here, but out back.
- [05:45]
David Green
Okay. Did they include this potted plant in the sale? Because they didn't have to. It's not attached to the home.
- [05:50]
Garrett Dion
Oh, they did. They included a few more, too. Scattered throughout.
- [05:53]
David Green
Okay, so you could maybe sell something on Etsy, perhaps increase that ROI a little bit.
- [05:58]
Garrett Dion
My girlfriend already sold them all on Marketplace.
- [06:02]
David Green
God bless girlfriends. Yeah, I would be terrible at doing that. That's awesome. All right, let's see the next picture. All right, this is the family room. This doesn't look half bad. Did you buy this thing on the mls?
- [06:12]
Garrett Dion
Yes, I did. This is the listening picture, actually.
- [06:15]
David Green
All right, now let me give my professional opinion for the people that are watching this. This is not related to your deal specifically, Garrett, when you see a picture like this, it's one of my favorites because I can tell the condition of the home does not look bad from the picture. But it also shows they put zero effort into getting the property ready to market, and that means that they're stupid. So, like, the drywall looks good. The flooring looks good. The overall condition of the home is not bad at all. But they couldn't bother putting away their garbage cans and the stuff that was being moved, which means they're not trying to get maximum value for it. And if I'm looking on the mls, this is exactly what I want to see. I'm less likely to get competition from other buyers unless they're investors, which is good for me. And I'm not inheriting a big, massive, nasty problem like drywall that's ripped out, exposed electrical, plumbing leaks. That are horrid. So when you're looking for properties on the mls, this should catch your eye. This is like the ideal. Let's make an analogy. Like, let's say that you're online dating and you're trying to find somebody. You don't want to find the person with incredibly good pictures because they're getting like a billion messages. Right. By the way, I don't do online dating, But I think 10 years ago or so I did. And I remember you want to find what you think is the attractive person that put the worst pictures up possible because your odds of them seeing your message and replying are way better. It's very similar with a property. This is like a good looking person with horrible pictures that you actually have a shot at getting.
- [07:46]
Garrett Dion
Yeah. And that's probably why it was on the market for a while. And that was kind of my thought when I saw it is, you know, pictures aren't great, but it doesn't look like it has any like structural issues or you know, needs like a complete gut as far as drywall. And then when I went in to view it, it was five times worse than this would just trap where. Which is fine because I was actually happy. I was like, that's probably why it's been on the market for so long. And then I really saw that it wasn't as bad as it looks in that, you know, it just needs the carpet ripped up and some new cabinets and you know, a fresh cleaning and new fixtures and everything. But that stuff doesn't scare me at all. And. And yeah, there, there's the kitchen right there.
- [08:39]
David Green
Yeah. So they've clearly put some filters on this thing, put some lipstick on a pig, which is another good sign because they didn't have enough effort to put away their dirty dishes. But they're still putting it on the mls. So this is largely what the kitchen looked like. I'm guessing you probably painted these cabinets. You might not have even had to do that, but maybe you put some new hardware on them. What'd you do with the kitchen?
- [09:03]
Garrett Dion
I completely gutted.
- [09:05]
David Green
Oh wow, the kitchen.
- [09:06]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, I ripped all the cabinets out. They were really old. Like you open them up? Yeah, I could have slapped some paint on them, but you can't even like tell the color of the countertops in this. But it was like, it wasn't great. They were yellowish and it was just really old and pretty gross. That backsplash was peeling and just kind of nasty. So yeah, I got completely new cabinets and sink, everything like that. Added a microwave And a dishwasher.
- [09:41]
David Green
Okay, did you have to change the structure of the kitchen or did you leave the way it is like this in place?
- [09:47]
Garrett Dion
The layout is essentially the same. Yep. How I laid.
- [09:51]
David Green
All right. By the way, folks, if you are listening to this on Apple Podcasts, I apologize that you can't see the pictures. You can look up this episode on YouTube or if you find it on Spotify, you can see the video over there. If you are in love with Apple Podcasts and don't want to leave, I don't blame you. We will do our very best job to keep this as verbally entertaining as possible. This would be what? This is not the same room we looked at originally, is it?
- [10:18]
Garrett Dion
No, it's the other side, which is just a replica of. You know, it's a copy and paste of the other unit.
- [10:27]
David Green
Oh, that's right, because it's a duplex. Sorry to interrupt you. Did they modify this to be that way, or was it built to be that way?
- [10:34]
Garrett Dion
It was built to be this way.
- [10:36]
David Green
So rare, I don't know that I've actually ever seen in my career a property that had a front door on one side and a front door on the backside. They usually put the front doors on the same side facing the street and split them horizontally.
- [10:48]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, that would be ideal, actually. So there's not a shared entryway, but this is how they did it. And this is actually where I'm sitting right now.
- [11:01]
David Green
Oh, you're sitting in there. That's a nice little house hack. So these people obviously love plants. I'm guessing this is the side that had the plant on it. But again, you can tell flooring's not in bad shape. Drywall is not in bad shape. It's just kind of, like, overloaded with stuff, which is what tenants will do at times. And so it's not going to appeal to your competition nearly as much, but that's okay because you don't need it to. You're trying to find a property that has less competition, which is exactly why you end up getting that high day on market that you're targeting. Let's move on to the next picture here. This looks like this is another bedroom. So not bad. Yeah. What were you thinking when you looked at this?
- [11:43]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, with this bedroom, like I said, it doesn't look bad. It looks like it's decently spacious. It's not a tiny little bedroom. And when I went to go view it, though, like I said, they just had so much stuff crammed in there, and it was smelly, like that carpet, they had multiple dogs. It was just, like, kind of gross on the inside. And, like, the floor looks like it's in good shape and the, you know, subfloor is. But that carpet, I mean, there's no way I would. I would rent that out with that carpet still in there. But that, like I said, that didn't scare me. So I was kind of happy to see that because I'm sure it deterred a lot of people just how, you know, not aesthetically pleasing it was.
- [12:31]
David Green
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so what was it listed for? How long was it on the market, and what price did you pay to buy it?
- [12:38]
Garrett Dion
So it was on the market for, I think, a little over a month, which was pretty surprising to see, especially around here, just because stuff was going pretty fast. And the. It was listed at 450,000, which is what I ended up offering. I was gonna offer 430, which I think I would have got it for still, even at that price, because, you know, it had been on the market for, I think, 45 days. But me and my girlfriend had to get out of our apartment, and we needed a place. I promised her, you know, we'll get into a place. Don't worry about it. And it was really coming down to it, so I changed my offer at the last minute to asking price because there was one other offer, and I just, like, could not afford to not get it. So I think I still could have got it for less, but I kind of panicked, and that's where I landed. But I think we're right with it.
- [13:36]
David Green
No shame in that because your personal situation made that make more sense for you. Looking back, though, with a clear head, would you do anything different?
- [13:44]
Garrett Dion
I. No, I don't think I would just because I, you know, if I didn't end up getting it, I don't know where we would be. We, you know, with our situation. Yeah. Couldn't really afford to wait a whole lot longer. So I think I would do it again because we're living in it now and got it rented out. The other side, that is. And, you know, I think we're in a pretty good spot.
- [14:14]
David Green
And did it appraise for what you paid for it?
- [14:17]
Garrett Dion
Yes, it did.
- [14:18]
David Green
All right. Did you get it reappraised after the renovations that we're going to get into next?
- [14:24]
Garrett Dion
No, I have not got it reappraised. I've, you know, spent some time on. On Zillow and kind of look at what places have recently sold for, are selling for in similar condition and whatnot. And I have a good idea of what it would be worth.
- [14:43]
David Green
Okay, we're going to talk about that soon. You said that you bought it and moved into it. So before we get into the after pictures, just let me ask, what is the financial situation like with the house now? What's the mortgage and how much do you have to come out of pocket for?
- [14:57]
Garrett Dion
Yep. So the mortgage is just over 3100. It's like 3127. And I had the other side rented out at 2100. Now they're about to move in. And for the renovations, I came out of pocket about $15,000 for everything said and done. You know, like I said, new floors, new bathrooms, new kitchens and.
- [15:23]
David Green
Yeah, okay, so you're coming out of pocket a thousand bucks a month.
- [15:27]
Garrett Dion
Yep. That's what coming out of pocket per month.
- [15:29]
David Green
Okay, so you spent about. You said 15,000. That was all.
- [15:32]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, I did all the work myself. So that saved a good chunk of change, as it tends.
- [15:38]
David Green
Yeah, that's crazy.
- [15:39]
Garrett Dion
So, yep, really kind of squeezed the. The new kitchens in there and got them down pretty cheap. And they still look good. I think so. Yeah. Ended up getting in for it. All done for about 15,000.
- [15:55]
David Green
Okay, let's see what it looked like that you did the work here is the kitchen boom. That's looking pretty good. Tell us what you did here.
- [16:03]
Garrett Dion
Yep. So ripped all the old ones out. Took a while to figure out the layout. Squeezing that dishwasher in there and put those shelves up on the right, as you can see, to save some money with cabinets. Kind of an open concept. My girlfriend made that look pretty nice. But, yeah, that saved us, you know, probably close to a grand with doing that instead of having cabinets going all the way. So that was a good way to save and. Yeah.
- [16:43]
David Green
How much did those shelves cost versus how much it would have cost to put cabinets in?
- [16:47]
Garrett Dion
Geez. Yeah, the shelves cost, I think for those two, five quarter boards, it was like 150 bucks. And then those cabinets, I imagine, probably would have ended up being another five or six hundred bucks aside.
- [17:06]
David Green
So the cabinets would have been an extra five or six hundred, you're saying? Yeah, that seems like they'd be more than that. How much are you saying that you paid for the shelves?
- [17:16]
Garrett Dion
It was under 200 bucks.
- [17:18]
David Green
So you're saying cabinets would have only been $700 to put in?
- [17:23]
Garrett Dion
They. They could have been more. I'd have to go back and look at what the quote was for. You know, the cabinets on the left that you can't See here. But. So, I mean, I'd say we saved at least fourteen hundred dollars.
- [17:39]
David Green
I would think you saved more than that. So are there cabinets that you left in place on the other side and you only put floating shelves in on this side, or did you take all the cabinets out?
- [17:47]
Garrett Dion
Yep, we took all the cabinets out. So there were cabinets there, and then we ripped all of them out. Got completely new cabinets everywhere except there. We put those shelves in instead.
- [17:58]
David Green
I would think if you put new cabinets in this space, which isn't huge, it would still be $2,000.
- [18:03]
Garrett Dion
Yeah.
- [18:04]
David Green
2500 bucks for new cabinets that, you know.
- [18:07]
Garrett Dion
That sounds right. Like I said. Yeah.
- [18:09]
David Green
So if you did this all for 200 bucks, dude, that's really good deal. I love that. So that's a kitchen on one side. Now let's take a look at the kitchen on the other side. This would be the other side of the duplex, correct?
- [18:20]
Garrett Dion
Yep.
- [18:21]
David Green
Okay. What did you do here?
- [18:22]
Garrett Dion
Same thing. Really? You know, same exact layout. I don't know if you can see. No, you can't. The top of the fridge is hiding where the microwave is mounted above the stove. And I have. On both sides and I have that vented out. So, yeah, as you can see, it's the same thing, but these look like new cabinets.
- [18:42]
David Green
Did you have these cabinets on the other side of the kitchen too?
- [18:45]
Garrett Dion
Yep, they're both. They're both brand new.
- [18:48]
David Green
Oh, I thought you were saying you didn't put cabinets in on the other side.
- [18:52]
Garrett Dion
No, yeah, I did. They're both sides, brand new cabinets.
- [18:56]
David Green
I get it. So you save money with shelving on this side, but you didn't save money by not putting in cabinets at all. Okay, I see where you got your original numbers from. It looks really good. I like the new faucet and the new light. Did your girlfriend pick that out or did you do that yourself?
- [19:11]
Garrett Dion
That was all me, believe it or not, man. A lot of trips and I.
- [19:17]
David Green
What about the countertops? Would you use on those?
- [19:20]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, it's. It's quartz countertops.
- [19:23]
David Green
Okay.
- [19:26]
Garrett Dion
So me and my girlfriend just sat down and I think she probably picked those out, if I'm being honest.
- [19:35]
David Green
Well, I mean, they look pretty good. Did you get a good deal on them? Like, where'd you go buy them at?
- [19:39]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, I got him at Home Depot, and I'm like a pro member. So that actually did give us a discount on both the cabinets and the countertops. And that was one of the countertops that we, like, were able to get however many dollar per square foot. Discount. I can't remember off the top of my head, but we actually did get all of that stuff at a bit of a discount. Probably close to two grand when it was all said and done, just. Just because I was a pro member. I didn't even know that was a thing, but it really helped me out.
- [20:12]
David Green
What about the cabinets? How much did you pay for those? Are those also Home Depot?
- [20:16]
Garrett Dion
Also Home Depot all together. Both kitchens combined, the cabinets and countertops cost me about $8,000.
- [20:25]
David Green
Oh, that's not bad at all.
- [20:27]
Garrett Dion
Which I was pretty happy with.
- [20:29]
David Green
What about. Is that a new window?
- [20:32]
Garrett Dion
Nope, that window is not new. I did replace a few window panes throughout the property that were a little bit foggy. That's all I did with the windows.
- [20:44]
David Green
And how about flooring? It looks like you did the same flooring throughout the kitchen and the rest of the house. How much did that cost?
- [20:49]
Garrett Dion
Yep. So the flooring altogether cost me just under $4,000. I think it was probably around 3,500.
- [21:01]
David Green
For. That's for the material.
- [21:06]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, material.
- [21:08]
David Green
It's okay. So you didn't do. You did all the installation yourself on those?
- [21:12]
Garrett Dion
Yep, yeah, installation myself for the cabinets, for the flooring, all the light fixtures, everything like that. So it was two bucks a square foot at about 1400 square feet. And then, you know, I get upset and hit them too hard and they chip. I more boxes. That's kind of how it goes. But that's where that extra couple hundred bucks comes in. But they came out pretty good.
- [21:39]
David Green
Yeah, they look really good. Here's what the. I'm assuming the family room looks like once you've cleared out all of the.
- [21:45]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, that was that first picture where there was a bunch of junk there. And that's it. Empty.
- [21:51]
David Green
Okay, so did you paint the walls as well?
- [21:54]
Garrett Dion
Yep, yep. Painted everything. Obviously gave it a good cleaning. And then new light fixtures, too.
- [22:02]
David Green
New baseboard or did you paint that?
- [22:05]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, I just painted the baseboard. I kept what was there and then just put a cord around all the way around to hide the gap between the new floor and the baseboard.
- [22:13]
David Green
Okay, what about the door frames? Is that painted or are those new?
- [22:18]
Garrett Dion
That's all. That's all painted.
- [22:20]
David Green
I kept. All right. All right. And let's check out the bathrooms that you put together here. Okay, what do we do in here?
- [22:29]
Garrett Dion
That is the new bathroom. That's after the repairs. Brand new vanity and vanity, light new floors, new toilet. And you actually just pictures from like inside the shower kind of. But a brand new shower and tub it was all pretty nasty, and it was black. They had a black toilet, black vanity. It was pretty weird, so I definitely didn't want to keep that and ripped all that out. Made it look new. I got a mirror in there now, and yeah, it looks. It looks a lot cleaner and like a brand new bathroom.
- [23:12]
David Green
All right, and here is the rest of the bathroom, or is this the other unit?
- [23:16]
Garrett Dion
Nope. Yeah, that's the one we were just looking at.
- [23:18]
David Green
Okay, so did you have the shower inserts installed or did you do that too?
- [23:22]
Garrett Dion
I did all that myself as well as that Nickel gap board. That white board over the shower. Kind of did that as a little feature, you know, because we had some kicking around and we ripped the drywall out to get the old tub out.
- [23:39]
David Green
So put that called that. It's called nickel gap.
- [23:43]
Garrett Dion
Nickel gap. Yeah, that's what they call it because it's like about the width of a nickel between the. The white shiplap boards.
- [23:50]
David Green
Did you listen to Nickelback while you installed Nickel Gap?
- [23:53]
Garrett Dion
Nickel gap. You know, I. I. Shut up.
- [23:56]
David Green
It's like perfect, right? You just put it on. Put it on a Bluetooth speaker. Look at this. Nickelback. Yeah, dude, I think you missed an opportunity there. But you could do that on the next one. That's exactly right.
- [24:07]
Garrett Dion
All right.
- [24:07]
David Green
How much did that actual shower and tub combo cost you?
- [24:12]
Garrett Dion
That was about $700. And then the vanity was. Wish I remember, I want to say four or five hundred dollars. So, you know. And then the toilet was like 200, so.
- [24:35]
David Green
And then how much for the vanity? You said. I'm sorry.
- [24:37]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, I think the vanity was like 400 something.
- [24:41]
David Green
Okay, 400 for vanity, 200 for toilet, 700 for showers, about 1300. Light fixture. How much was that?
- [24:49]
Garrett Dion
That was. They're probably like 70 bucks, so about 1400.
- [24:53]
David Green
There any work on the window?
- [24:56]
Garrett Dion
Yep, I actually had. Because you can kind of see that it's like black in the corners and almost looks like pattern. Supposed to be like that, but it's the. The seal that's just, you know, worn out. So I. And that was like 200 bucks.
- [25:12]
David Green
So 1600. And then how much do you think for paint, flooring in here?
- [25:17]
Garrett Dion
Paint divided. I heard the flooring divided up per square foot. It was probably like 80 bucks. And then paint another 20, 30 maybe.
- [25:30]
David Green
Dude. So you're at less than $1800 for this thing because you did the labor yourself. That's pretty impressive that you have an entire bathroom remodel for two grand. And I'm gonna say something different. What I Have said in the past, I used to be all about leverage it out, have somebody else do the work. Something happened after Covid that nobody wants to work. And if they do, they charge you up the wazoo. If they do, they charge up the wazoo. So you're seeing this also, Garrett, like, not to make this about me, I wanted to replace some drop ceiling tiles in two of my cabins in the Smoky Mountains. They have this like, ugly, like the kind of thing that would be in your portable at school that you throw your pencil up and it would stick. Right. And so it looks terrible in the picture of these million dollar cabins that are in basements and like, it's ruining the booking. So I want to go in there and I want to change it. I got quotes that made me sick. Okay. One guy told me $4,000 because he needs four guys in four days to replace the drop ceiling tiles and paint the rails for the new color. Got another quote, $5,300 to. I'm just. That's not including materials. Okay. I went and looked up how much it would cost to put these in ourselves, and I realized after doing like half a day's worth of research, I don't need to paint the rails. They make little grid strips that you can put over the top of them that match the color of the drop ceiling tiles. And I don't even need to take out the drop ceiling tiles. You can actually install the new ones right underneath the existing ones. So.
- [27:03]
Garrett Dion
Right.
- [27:04]
David Green
You're familiar with that?
- [27:06]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, yeah. I. I work in construction, so I'm having to lift those up all the time. And it's. It's also not a very labor intensive job.
- [27:14]
David Green
You know, if I can do it, dude, I'm not a handyman. I'm a numbers man. Right. I'm a podcaster, brother. Like, this is what I do. I should not be able to go in there and do that kind of work. It looked insanely easy. So we're just going to go up there, my property management team, to take over these cabins. I'm in an issue with the property manager who's managing them now that was caught stealing from me and doing a terrible. So it's kind of ugly, but I have to go take them back and I'm just going to replace those myself. You just need a ladder, literally, scissors to cut the tiles. And I'm like, how on earth could someone quote me $4,000 and 5,300? But this is what it's like. I'm like, hey, a couple boards on my deck. Need to be stained and someone's like 900 bucks. Yeah, right. So you're seeing this too. Talk to me about what you're seeing in the labor pool right now.
- [28:02]
Garrett Dion
Oh, yeah. I mean, if people are getting away with it, they'll keep doing it. But yeah, I think people don't want to do things themselves and there's not an abundance of tradesmen out there. I mean, I'm an electrician and I have people asking me for. Not favors, but to do work all the time because I'm not self employed. So they know it'll be a little cheaper to get me to do it on the side than pay, you know, an electrical contractor thousands of dollars even to do some pretty simple tasks. So, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it helps to know someone in the trade who, even if they don't have their own business, they might be willing to do something on the side.
- [28:51]
David Green
Or they could bounce, you could bounce ideas off them and say, I just got quoted $4,000 to put the ceiling tiles in. Is that fair? Because you'd have told me right away. Absol. Absolutely not.
- [29:00]
Garrett Dion
Right.
- [29:00]
David Green
You don't need to do that. Right? Yeah. What advice do you have for a person in my position or someone who's listening to this, especially if they're an out of state investor and they go on TaskRabbit or they go on some Facebook group and they say, I need a handyman. The handyman comes back and says, here's my bid on the job. It's. You don't know if you can trust it or not. What would you do if you had to find labor out of state and you couldn't do the work yourself?
- [29:23]
Garrett Dion
That's a good question. Because, you know, investing out of state isn't out of the realm for me. Someday I think I'd like to, but that's a big hurdle because I've always done all my work myself for the most part. I mean, I had to get some drywall replaced here, and that cost me $4,000, which I thought was insane. And apparently it was, you know, I was still getting a friendly discount. So if. I wish I had an answer to that, because if you don't know people in the area, even if you just have like one friend who lives where you're investing or, you know, someone you've done business with, if they can reach out to people they know to like, like I said, like a quick side job, or even if it's not quick, if, if you're not dealing with, you know, A contractor and it's, you know, a guy who might not be able to pull permits. But if it's something that is, you know, you've got a new vanity and you need your sinks hooked up and a toilet replacement and, you know, small stuff, kind of like I did here, you're better off finding a guy who needs some extra money on the weekend.
- [30:45]
David Green
Well, if you're that guy and you're listening to this, or if you know that guy and you're willing to travel, I've got lots of work I like to do. Putting up new walls, improving properties. I'm obviously not looking to pay ins amounts of money because these are not huge jobs where we need permits pulled or things ripped apart and put together. But I would love to hire someone that could travel out of state and stay at one of the properties and work and get some stuff done. But if you're not that person, if you're listening to this, like, I'm having the same problem. I don't know how to find anybody. You're not alone. Garrett here works in the industry and he's saying how hard it is. I'm having a hell of a time finding anyone that can go do this stuff for not absolutely ripping you off. And so what I was getting at earlier is to say it's actually a huge advantage if you can do work, if you can put in lvp, if you can do flooring, if you can install a shower insert, you don't have to have a contractor's license. If you're just handy, you have a massive advantage in real estate investing right now. I just want you to think about something. When I talk to all my buddies that own real estate, it's the owners that are losing. If you're a short term rental operator, if you're a commercial operator, the owners are getting hammered. Property taxes are going up, insurance is skyrocketing, rents are going down because tenants can't afford to pay interest, rates are going up. The only people making money are the same people that complain that they didn't get any ownership the last couple of years. The contractors are making money, the real estate agents are making money, the people doing the work are making sure they get paid. They're all doing well. It's the owners that are getting hammered. So you may want to venture into learning how to be a little more handy and targeting properties that you could do a lot of the work yourself. And for years, Brandon Turner and I were kind of at odds. I was like, dude, why are you spending all your Time putting these, like, assembling furniture that you bought from ikea. Stop doing that. Right. I'm almost eating my words a little bit now. I'm like, I don't. It's going to cost $400 to get that $80 chair assembled. Now. People are just charging so much to do manual labor. Even the people whose English was questionable, that used to be like, just give me work. I just want something to do. I mean, the person that quoted me four grand, I was speaking Spanish to. They don't speak English. And that's still, like, that's what they're gonna charge for the thing.
- [32:55]
Garrett Dion
They're still charging, you know, close to top dollar, too. It's hard to find.
- [32:58]
David Green
Yeah, that's exactly right. The funny thing is, he came back and said, okay, I'll do it for 1500, when I called him out, which almost made it worse. Like, you were gonna charge me four grand as a handyman, and then you say, okay, I'll do it for 1500. And it's probably a thing that I could literally, if I found some of this work for 200 bucks a day, which is probably what contractors are paying some of their, like, not skilled labor.
- [33:22]
Garrett Dion
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [33:24]
David Green
You could get that whole thing done in one day, putting up grid strips. Like, it could have been a 200 quote. Maybe they charge me 50% more and get 300, and I would have been like, hey, let me give you something else to do. Right. I would have given them work, but that's not what's happening. So if you're new and you're listening to this and you're trying to get into real estate, mark our words, you're going to get ripped off getting quotes from labor. This is the time, like Garrett just said, to get to know people that know how to do work and bootstrap this thing. Find somebody that you can trust that knows how to do stuff. Get your uncle, get your cousins. Even if the work's not perfect, that's okay. It's better than getting ripped off, paying 20 times what you should have.
- [34:03]
Garrett Dion
Absolutely. Yeah. It's. It's paid off in spades, for sure. Just knowing how to do a lot of this stuff, and it's definitely a sacrifice, you know, that's every day after work, every weekend for a few months. It's. It's stressful and not necessarily sustainable, but at the same time, I wouldn't have been able to really afford this deal and be able to rehab it if I hadn't done it myself. So I'm thankful for that. But at the same time, you know, there's a give and a take, and you have to kind of pump the brakes a little bit and, you know, have a little bit of free time.
- [34:43]
David Green
Yeah, you can't be doing this all day long, especially if you have a W2 or you do something else. But it. It's gonna take work. Right. You're gonna go to work in the day, doing your day job, and then you're gonna get off and you're gonna do this. And that's what it takes to make real estate work. The days of I just found properties, easily hired someone else to go do the work, and then went to the real estate meetup, talk about how many doors I just acquired are gone. If you're holding to that model, you're just going to be frustrated all the time. You have to adapt. And so these are the skills that I'm advising people to learn, including myself, for a lot of these opportunities that you can make a deal work, but you can't if you have to pay these crazy high prices. And like I mentioned, your insurance is going up. Property taxes are going to be the next thing that goes up. Interest rates have already gone up. Now we have the cost of labor and materials go up with inflation. It's just the owners are taking it from every angle, and it's the laborers that are actually making the money. So in a. In a lot of cases, I'm advising people that have owned real estate but have a skill that are handy with something, or they could be a real estate agent, that they could be a loan officer, get into working, get away from passive income, get into active income and find ways to make active income that you like, because those are the people that are doing well, while the owners of real estate are often the ones that are losing as you go into recession. So thank you for sharing that information. The house looks beautiful. And you're living somewhere now for 1000 bucks a month. How much were you paying for rent or mortgage before this?
- [36:06]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, so me and my girlfriend were paying 2,000, splitting that so 1,000 a piece at her apartment because I had moved out of one of my units that I was living in. The year ended, so I rented that out and then moved in with her. And we were paying about a thousand bucks a piece. So I really convinced her to not resign that lease and promised her I'd find something. And it just barely worked out, but I'm glad it did.
- [36:40]
David Green
I love it. You went from renting to owning and paying half as much.
- [36:44]
Garrett Dion
Yeah.
- [36:45]
David Green
And as rents go up, which they will over time. Here's another thing about house hacking. I love what you would have paid to rent. That apartment goes up. So you got away from the rising cost of rent, right. At the same time what your tenant pays you goes up.
- [37:00]
Garrett Dion
Yeah.
- [37:00]
David Green
So you're benefiting twice. It's like double beneficial for you when you house hack and when you move out, it becomes triple beneficial because now you have two units that are going up in rent instead of one over a long period of time. And you're building the equity from owning. And then ideally you go do this again, you find another property, you do the same thing, you wait until you're ready to get back in there and do the work and you just slow and steady acquire a new one of these every year. That's actually the book I'm working out on right now. I have Better than Cash Flow coming out. It's available for pre order right now on Amazon. The one after it is going to be called the Sneaky Rental. And this is about how you just acquire a new house hack every year and get out of this hole. I just bought 17 units in my first 18 months and I went on all the podcast tours and talked about how great I am and all these people go broke. It's just the slow and steady, predictable, reliable, safe way to build wealth. It's almost foolproof.
- [37:54]
Garrett Dion
Yep, that's exactly the plan as of now. This is the second one. I, this past year I did the same thing, you know, lived in a four unit, one of the apartments for a year. That year ended and then like I just said, moved in with her. Now we're here and then once this year is up, hopefully we'll be in a good spot to get the next deal for, you know, as little money down as we can make work.
- [38:27]
David Green
So that is, the plan is to buy the next property. What concerns do you have about how you're going to make the next deal happen?
- [38:34]
Garrett Dion
Mostly just capital right now. I mean, with all the renovations and down payment and whatnot on this deal, you know, I need to save up my money essentially within the next year. And I think come a year's time from now, I'll have enough to put down on a similar property in this area or who knows where we'll be. We might, you know, move out of state, but either way I think I'll have enough to, to put down, say 10% on another primary residence.
- [39:10]
David Green
Okay, so what's the price point of the houses that you're looking at over there?
- [39:14]
Garrett Dion
So around here, I would say between 450 and 550.
- [39:22]
David Green
So, okay, so you can get in at 5% down for about 25 grand. And then you're going to need closing costs, which you can, depending how you write your offer, you can probably get the sellers to contribute to those, which is what I'd recommend. You pay a little bit more for the house and have them kick in some cash so that you keep more money in the bank. Then you've got the renovation budget. So if you know you want to do this again, I'm guessing if you did this, how much did this whole job cost you? You said 20 grand, was it?
- [39:48]
Garrett Dion
No, it's like 15.
- [39:50]
David Green
God, that's so amazing, dude. I know that that probably feels to you like this sucked. Everyone listening is like, you gotta be kidding me. This guy has a chance to be able to get a house and renovate it from what it was to this for 15,000. You've got like a superpower right now in today's market.
- [40:06]
Garrett Dion
Yeah, like I said, it was a lot of work. So I think the next one we would like to be a little more turnkey. I think I'll drive my girlfriend crazy if I'm just putting in these 70, 75 hour weeks between my W2.
- [40:26]
David Green
Could you get some of the guys you work with that you trust the work they do, but you know, they don't charge a lot. Could you get them to do some of it while you're at your W2? They're working this thing?
- [40:35]
Garrett Dion
I could certainly, yeah. Seek for, for help with connections I have and I. Obviously at a cost, but like I said, with knowing some people get it done a little bit cheaper, I definitely could. And that's what I'd have to do. So that would, you know, add to the renovation budget. But at the same time, I think we could find a place that neat that does need less work than this did. Because we'll be in a good situation where I own the place and it's not like, hey, we need to live somewhere next month. I can take my time and really vet a good deal, that it will be a little less stress on me, but that I can still make my own improvements too.
- [41:18]
David Green
Something else that I would advise you to think about as you're doing this. When I was first getting into investing, deals were easier to come by than they are today. They were never easy, but it was like reasonable. It's stupid now trying to find anything. You got everybody scouring the earth to find these things and there's so much competition and there's less inventory at the same time because people don't want to put them out there. So what I'm about to say worked easier for me than you. I recognize that. But if you can find a deal like this house itself that works or will break even, that you could just clean it out and maybe paint the cabinets, keep the old appliances, not do the whole soup to nuts situation like you did. You just get like painted cabinets, maybe new paint, maybe do the floors, maybe don't, don't renovate the bathroom, throw in a vanity, in a mirror, leave the existing shower. The stuff that I'm getting at is like the easy stuff, the low hanging fruit. Right? Right. Yeah. And you stick tenants in it and then you move on with your life and then you wait until you got nothing else to do with your time, work has slowed down, you go back and you renovate it. Then that actually is an acceptable way to build a portfolio. It doesn't have to be the buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat every single time in a row. Have you thought about that?
- [42:30]
Garrett Dion
Yeah. So I own two other rental properties as well besides this one, and that's sort of what I did there. Didn't put. One of them was pretty turnkey in a lower cost of living area in the state, but the other one just fixed a few plumbing issues, fixed some doors that wouldn't shut, stuff like that, just to be able to get tenants in there because it was, you know, it wasn't in complete disrepair, but needed just a little bit, you know, a little bit of work to get people in there without issue. So this just being our primary residence and you know, living here with my girlfriend, she had her own standards and you know, so did I. So we wanted to make it look nice because we also don't know exactly how long we'll be here and I might end up selling it, kind of doing a live in flip in the next year, couple years. Kind of got to figure that out. But I, I thought doing a whole soup to nuts remodel on the inside would really boost that equity for when I do go to sell it with it being brand new.
- [43:42]
David Green
Yeah, there you go. Like you're. The elements of Burr are all there. They don't have to happen in the exact order that I describe it in the book or that people talk about it. I mean, if you can do it that way, that's ideal. But people get stuck on that thought that, that it all has to happen in a six month period. You got to get 100% of your money out before you do the next one. Sometimes you, you buy, you rehab, you rent, but you don't do a full remodel and you hold off on the refi. You don't really need to refi. If you put three and a half percent into the house, there's not a lot to refi out of it.
- [44:13]
Garrett Dion
Exactly.
- [44:13]
David Green
And then two years later, three years later, when it's appreciated and you need the money, you then refi or you do the remodel to fix it up. Then you refi and you move on to the next one. You can have a couple of these things all kind of going on at the same time within a manageable level and use your time most efficiently. So I just want to encourage you. Don't think I don't want to buy another property until I've got all this time and I'm facing a breakup in my relationship because I'm at the house all the time. Give yourself a little bit of grace to buy one. Have someone else that can go paint the cabinets for a couple hundred bucks. And maybe you do the flooring and they do the paint, or you do the vanity in the bathroom and they do the flooring and the paint, that kind of thing. And then get tenants in there quickly. You get another property under your belt, you move into it, whatever the case may be. You go back to work and when your business slows down or when there's less work, or whatever the case is, you go do it. Or maybe you make new connections and you're like, well, now that I got a guy that could do these three things, I can go buy that property. And you oversee the work or you make sure the supplies get dropped off, but they're the ones that are actually there every day doing the work. You're putting your time in at your job job, getting a higher daily wage than what you're paying other people to do, this low skilled labor. And when you can't, you go and do the work. But when you can do that and you sort of hit a nice little stride, like a marathon that you feel like you can keep up for a long period of time instead of the dead sprint that this one was.
- [45:35]
Garrett Dion
Absolutely. And that's, that's what it's going to have to be. And it's very feasible. And especially now, you know, being in a better spot where it's not rushed, I think we can, we can definitely make that happen.
- [45:48]
David Green
All right, dude. Well, congratulations. I think that thing looked great on the outside. Looking back, what would you be thinking differently. What advice do you have for the listeners? Looking back, sounds like you just wouldn't change anything. You feel like you did it exactly the way that it should have been done.
- [46:03]
Garrett Dion
Hard, because this really wasn't, you know, there wasn't many hiccups with this just because we kind of took one thing at a time, got it done, moved on to the next, and I didn't really splurge or surpass the budget that I had for myself, which was between 15 and 20. So things I would do differently. I'm not sure I would have liked to have gotten it for less, but like I said, it just, you know, I psyched myself out. I couldn't really afford to not get it. So I guess my advice would be probably learn, you know, even just one skill. You know, whether it's flooring. I mean, that's. It's really not that hard once you get the hang of it, you know, it sucks, you know, at the beginning, but if you can even figure out just how to do a few things, it could save you a lot of money and, you know, get a couple buddies to help you on the weekend, and it's actually kind of a good time.
- [47:05]
David Green
So, yeah, you play Nickelback, right? Who doesn't like that?
- [47:09]
Garrett Dion
Back and install the nickel gap. And there you go.
- [47:15]
David Green
Awesome, dude. Well, I appreciate you coming on to talk about this. If anybody wants to reach out to you with questions or just to give you a virtual high five, where can they find you on social media?
- [47:24]
Garrett Dion
So I'm not too active on social media. I do have Instagram, so if you wanted to get a hold of me and message me there, I guess that would be the place. I don't really post. I just use it to contact some friends and follow you and, you know, a few other things I'm interested in, but that is Garrett Dion, 17. So G A R E T T D I O N and then 17 is my handle.
- [47:55]
David Green
All right, well, thanks for being on the show. We appreciate you. And the next time you get a deal, we'll have you back to talk about it again. Thanks, Garrett.
- [48:02]
Garrett Dion
Awesome. Thanks for having me.
- [48:03]
David Green
Thanks for listening to Real Talk Real Estate. If you would like to be featured on the podcast, I'd love to have you visit davidgreen24.com Ask and submit your question there. Also, please do me a huge favor and share the show with someone that you love that you think would benefit from his message. And make sure you're subscribed to get notified for future episodes if you want to reach out directly. You can also DM me on Instagram or social media and check out davidgreen24.com.