← The David Greene Show
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate, the show where we cover how to build wealth in real estate with no fluff, no BS, and no sales pitches. I'm David Green and I've been doing this for over 10 years. I've seen the ups, the downs, and everything in between. This is the show where we pull back the curtain and show it to you, too. So if you want to build wealth through real estate or you just love learning about it, you found your home. What's going on, everyone? Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate. I'm David Green and today we're going to be doing a Real Talk Realtor show. I'm joined today by Doug Phillips, a real estate investor and agent who has come on today's show to talk about his business, what he's doing that's working, what challenges we're facing in today's market and what we can do to overcome them all with the hopes of helping you grow your business and serve your clients better. Doug, welcome to the show.
- [00:45]
B
Awesome. Thank you so much, David. I'm, I'm privileged to be here.
- [00:48]
A
Dude, you're making me think I should address up a little nicer. You're looking like a million bucks and I'm in a T shirt.
- [00:53]
B
Well, it's, it's, it's Halloween and I've been told I've got a face for trick or treating over the phone, so thought I would dress up a little bit. No, this is my usual actual get up.
- [01:02]
A
So in the spirit of Halloween, have you ever considered dressing up as Guile from Street Fighter?
- [01:09]
B
It's so funny. My hair actually used to be 10 inches. So when I got the crew cut, you know, it was, it was Guile, it was Iceman, it was, you know, Arnold from Predator. Yeah, yeah. I'm a big 80s buck.
- [01:22]
A
I can see you pulling off Iceman. That's Top Gun reference, right?
- [01:26]
B
Yes, absolutely. Rest in peace, Val Kilmer.
- [01:29]
A
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So if you guys don't know who Guile is, search Guile Street Fighter and you'll see exactly we're talking about. If he was in green camis and cam, it would be. Yes. Fists up. That's exactly right. Sunglasses on. And that hair, just spike it up a little bit. Hilarious. All right, so let's get into your story here. Let's start off with your business. How many houses are you selling a year? Approximately right now?
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B
Yeah. So I should be on Track to sell 30 this year.
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A
Oh, wow. That's a lot. That's really good. And what area are you selling in?
- [01:57]
B
So I Am in Cincinnati. So I say the greater Cincinnati area. I mean, I can cover Dayton, southern Columbus, but I'll probably refer that out, and then northern Kentucky as well. So we kind of, we work in that, that southwestern Ohio market.
- [02:14]
A
Okay, and is that where you grew up? You're from that area?
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B
Yeah, for sure. So I grew up five minutes, you know, from my office here, our Keller Williams office.
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A
So.
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B
Yeah, born and raised in Cincinnati all 32 years.
- [02:26]
A
Oh, you're K Dub. Me too, man. That's where I all got started. We don't need to go deep into it because it's not going to be today's show, but there's obviously been a lot of changes in the industry since the Sitzer Burnett fallout. A lot of brokerages like Keller Williams, like ReMax. What other ones got caught up in this thing? Pretty big compass, I think was a big part of it.
- [02:43]
B
Yeah, compass.
- [02:46]
A
Yeah.
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B
Look at all the big ones for sure.
- [02:48]
A
Crazy, crazy, crazy lawsuit. I couldn't believe how much money they had to settle for. That whole thing is like unbelievable to me that it even happened. But Keller Williams has had, I believe, private equity by part of the company. So has there been a change from your perspective of working there? Is it largely felt the same to you?
- [03:04]
B
Yeah, so we actually, so we've the group I work, we've successfully been implementing buyer broker agreements since I would say at least 2017, 2018. So our expectations working, you know, as a buyer's agent with a client is, you know, I'm old fashioned. So, you know, we meet at the office and I think you had mentioned that in your first book, I think sold, you know, like how of your three part series books, like, you know, getting them to come in the office, you know, establishing you as the professional. And from there we just outline. Yeah. The buyer broker agreement, our presentation. And so here in Cincinnati, I can speak for this market. You know, we're not seeing in terms of like if this is upended transactions or made things a little goofy. We're still seeing for the most part, you know, a seller offering a buyer's agent compensation, maybe a little bit of deviance from, you know, the amount we've worked out with our buyers, but nothing we can't rein in and close the transaction with.
- [04:03]
A
Okay. So from your experience, Keller Williams, like what you're experiencing of it hasn't changed a whole lot. It's not different with the new leadership.
- [04:11]
B
Correct. Yeah. Gary Keller. No, I mean, we just got back from family. Well, not just back, but in February, family reunion. And you're right. There's private equity being brought in, but no, it's kind of just business as usual. If anything, the market here in Cincinnati has grown about 5% year over year. We as a group have actually grown this year about 25%. So we're kind of not only, I would say insulated from all of the negativity and all the media and the press, but we're, we should be on track to sell about 625 homes this year, up from about 497 from last year.
- [04:52]
A
Okay, so you guys are doing really good. Let's get into this. So you're working on a team as you mentioned. Did you start off immediately on a team or did you start solo and then join the team?
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B
No, so I joined straight. I actually committed to joining the team before I had even taken the licensing test. My wife had sent me the indeed information said hey, you should go, you know, you've got a background with investing a little bit. You should go meet with the, our business manager and our director of operations. And so I did, I loved, I walked in, I just, I loved the, what I was seeing, what I was hearing breeze through the test in eight weeks. I mean I was like just studying eight hours a day and yeah, got licensed and probably a pretty rough time December of 2022. So interest rates were rising and inventory sales were dropping transaction counts. So yeah, I think that October of 2023, I think interest rates peaked about 8.3% or so at the very highest. So wasn't the most fun time I think to get licensed. But I'm glad I did because it was a little bit of a crucible. It kind of, it forced me to level up my skills. And of course I read all your books, the real estate agent books. I had already read long distance real estate investing, Burr. And so yeah, it kind of forced me. And then of course being with a productive team, having in house coaching, accountability partners, contract classes, it really, it forced me to get smart quick.
- [06:25]
A
So you feel like your learning curve increased quite a bit when you joined a team?
- [06:30]
B
Absolutely. So one of the benefits, and again, not just I'm not trying to sell a team model but you know, I know there's brokerages out there or maybe groups, folks can mentor. But yeah, we have an in house contract coach. So you know, it really shortened that learning curve. So that two, three, four months in I feel very familiar, very comfortable with, you know, the Ohio. It's a 14 page contract, you know, going toe to toe with veterans. Sometimes seasoned agents may like to you know, almost bully or use an ego thing. But no, I felt very confident, very comfortable having that knowledge and those skills to go toe to toe with either new agents or veteran agents as well.
- [07:13]
A
And how long have you been working with the team now?
- [07:16]
B
This will be. I got, I got licensed and joined in December of 2022. So yeah, we're coming up on, on three years here.
- [07:23]
A
Okay, so three years on the team, you were a solo agent for a short period of time before that and just struggled because of the market had just kind of turned around. Right. Interest rates had gone up.
- [07:33]
B
You said no, no, I'm sorry, I had joined the team, just straight getting my license. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I've never really known. This is all I know.
- [07:42]
A
That's it. That's what I'm getting at here.
- [07:44]
B
Yeah, yeah. So I've been institutionalized, if you will. I couldn't imagine it anywhere else. But all jokes aside, it's, you know, I'm having a blast. I'm also now the, what's called the launch coordinator for our group. So, you know, I think had such a positive experience just joining, getting licensed and onboarding so that now, you know, it's my role to help new agents to our team get familiar with the systems. We have so many from our CRM, our, you know, our client relationship management tool. The systems we use, the processes. Because the reality is you can't sell 5, 600 homes a year as a team without having a vertical integration like a system where you can control all facets of real estate business. And that's what I think that we have here as a business. I think teams, honestly, David, is where the future is kind of heading. I think if you were looking teams, you could break it down into three components, you know, resources, reputation and resiliency. And what I mean by that is resources kind of self explanatory. Do they have, you know, coaches or they have a leadership team that can help you, you know, develop your skills? Are there, you know, dot loop? Do they have electronics? All, all of the, the bells and whistles, the CRMs, all of that? Do they have the resources, reputation? Right. So I would say how long have they been around? Like, what's their social proof? How are their five star reviews? What is their online presence? You know, are they utilizing AI? As we, as we kind of get into that new market with artificial intelligence? And then lastly, I think resilience. You know, if someone were maybe a new agent or if they were wanting to start interviewing different teams or brokerages, I would see how Many market cycles they've been in. I feel like anyone could maybe look like a genius in selling homes in 20, 21, 2020, where there were just fire sales going on. But our lead agent, our CEO, Peter, I mean, he was doing the hard things, he was doing the short sales, he was doing the bubble, the financial collapse, all of that, you know, because I think you'll get poised better for when the market inevitably does turn for better or for worse. And so I think being, you know, familiarizing yourself with a team that's comfortable with that, or a brokerage or a mentor, whomever it is, I think that'll help set someone up for success.
- [10:24]
A
Okay, so the systems was a thing that you mentioned that a lot of people don't quite understand. With that, I'm going to assume that if an agent's listening here, the big battle is between, if I get on a team, I know I'll get the, the attention, I'll get training, I'll get support, I'll get mentorship, I will get pushed maybe a little bit, I'll get challenged and I'm going to sell more houses, but I'm gonna have to pay a higher split. And I feel like people pinball between those situations. If you're already good at selling homes, you don't, you're not going to be on a team because you don't pay the higher split. If you're struggling with selling homes, that's the person that kind of goes back and forth with should I be on a team or should I not be on a team? How did you resolve in your mind the payoff of I'm going to get all of this support, I'm going to sell more homes, but my split's not going to be as favorable.
- [11:15]
B
Yeah, that's a great question. So I am of the volition that I am, I'm totally a team player. Even when I started Investing here in 20, 17, 18, you know, I always wanted it to be a win win scenario. So when I was, you know, property manager, like, you know, I would want to pay our contractors a fair price so that they could win. I would want our tenants to be happy, you know, when work orders came in or requests. I want to make sure they're safe, they're taken care of. And so knowing that the team here with our transaction coordinators, our listing coordinators, our, our executive director, our business manager, our courier know, our, our virtual or our virtual assistants, our compliance team, you know, we've got, we've got so many people in, in key positions that will support it. Just, it just resonated with me. So for me that's, it was an easy decision to make. And yeah, now I can kind of pour into, into our new agents who joined as well.
- [12:21]
A
Do you think that there's agents that are leaving money on the table because they're trying to get 90% of nothing versus 50% of a whole bunch?
- [12:30]
B
Yeah. I mean, I'll give you a specific example. You know, because of our reputation in terms of just the size, you know, the size of our group, how many units we sell, the volume as well as our, our five star reviews, we're actually a few away from 1800 right now. So, you know, I was able to receive an inbound lead because they looked up our, you know, usually when, when folks taught like top, you know, Cincinnati Realtors or top teams, you know, we pop up at the top. Well, this person just so was a $950,000 buyer and you know, it was a, you know, which you quantify as a company, a house leads. So the split is going to be different, you know, more, you know, half and half. But 50% of that as opposed to like you said, 0% of $0 on 90%. I mean it's a no brainer. So again, I think the thing I like about the T model is that I'm a very. On a disc profile, I would say I'm a high I and a high kind of sc. I like structure, I like order, I like you know, coloring inside the box. And so knowing that I can. We have these inbound leads from our signs in the yard or Google leads that come in or you know, the, the pay for ones like homelight, Open Door, all these different lead sources. I know that, you know, I can take those in. And with the skills that I, we get from the company on objection, handling and scripting, I know that we can convert those at a high level. So yes, the split sometimes may be lower, but we wouldn't be getting those if we were maybe were just solo because we've probably got right now in Cincinnati. I think we've got maybe, I don't know, 50, 60 active listings. So I see that as 50, 60 big Keller Williams signs in the yards that people are calling and we're trained on how to convert them and book for an appointment.
- [14:32]
A
You know, you, you might get me thinking with this is when I was rocking and rolling with the David Green team. I'm totally immersed in the sailing of houses and I'm like, we got a listing. How do we get leads out of this. We need open houses. We need signs and yards. We need to get the phone ringing with people asking about it. We need to convert these people into buyer leads for other houses. If they don't get this one, we need to ask people that are calling that have an agent. Why are you working with an agent and you're calling instead of your agent calling? Right. Like, my mind was focused on this conversion of opportunity because I have all these mouths to feed. You got a bunch of baby birds that are all squawking like, I got to find worms to. To give these agents. Right. And I would see the other agents in my office that would get the same sign call. Hey, I'm calling about 1, 2, 3 Main Street. Oh, what can I tell you? Is it three bedrooms or four? Oh, it's three bedrooms in a bonus room. Okay. Do you have any offers? We're taking highest and best whenever they come. Okay, thank you. And they'd hang up the phone. Yeah. And I'm like, what on earth people would pay $500 for that phone call? And if it was me, I'd be like, why don't you come in the office and I'll talk to you about it and tell me more about what you're looking for. Let me make sure this is the right house that you want. Can I tell you something good about it? Something bad? I'd build rapport. I'd get you in there. I'd show you that I'm better than the other agents you talk to. I'd make you feel better, and I'd sign you up to be a buyer. Or at least I'd be on the process of that. Then have one of my agents there with me in the interview. So you got used to both of us together. And I'd see the agents that were not on teams that just didn't take it serious. They're just like, letting this thing languish. Can you speak about your perspective as a professional working in this environment? That everyone is, like, on the pursuit of excellence and not wasting stuff versus your standard non teammate doesn't mean every agent not on a team is going to fumble that. But a lot of them would because they don't get the exposure to the right way to handle that stuff. Can you just talk a little bit about the difference that you see in the mentality between agents and how maybe being around professionals and on a team will help you in ways other than just the leads in the split?
- [16:33]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And that's a really good point. And I can speak at least from a team perspective, like you had said.
- [16:40]
A
So.
- [16:40]
B
Yeah, it's part of. I think the reason we can sell so many homes is that we are, we're just, we're ruthlessly results oriented. And so with that comes. We have in office required, at least for our newer agents, our tier one and two agents. We have scripting and role playing first thing and then two hours of lead generation. So scripting, role playing Tuesday through Friday from 9 to 9:30 and then scripting, I'm sorry, lead generation in the office from 9:30 to 11:30. And then on Wednesdays we have our contract class. So we are constantly skilling up and immersing ourselves so that we ideally don't fumble those, you know, can you tell me about 1, 2, 3 Main Street? Like, we know how to handle those objections of just. Oh, that's okay. I'm just. We know to qualify them to get their contact information, like you said, to build rapport. We know if we're doing an open house, you know, I always carry because the likelihood a consumer walks in and buys that house is pretty low. But I still want to build rapport, give value, you know, so I would always have what I call a catalog of, you know, this is just a piece of paper, but I would have nine if, if there's enough inventory in the area. I would have nine because it fills out nicely on the sheet. Active homes that are all a little bit different than the subject property. So that, you know, David Green comes in. Oh, this one, you know, it's. It's not as big as you would like or it's too expensive. I've actually got, you know, a list here. I can tell on my list there's actually three down the street. You know, one is, you know, one is priced lower and these other two are, have increased square footage. You know, when I'm wrapping up this open house here in about an hour, you know, we can go, you know, meet at the property or we can get coffee and we can explain all of your options. You're really just trying to nurture that and, you know, get that client, get that consumer down the funnel. You know, there's a funnel that Peter, our CEO goes over occasionally where it's kind of like a V and everything starts at the top, right? You need, you need leads which, you know, so you're going to be talking to a lot of people. Those leads will then go to set appointments and then you'll meet those signed clients, sign them, put them under contract. And then at the very bottom, right that's where you get that, the sale, the closed contract. But in order to do so, you need to move those people, you need to qualify and move them through the sales funnel. So one of the tools that we use, it's called sisu, but there's, it's, it's data tracking. So where I'm going with this is that when you identify your weak points as an individual agent or as a team, you can see those percentages where the conversions, you know, might fall through. So for example, I know we just did business planning last week, I know that my conversion is 90.2% on meeting a buyer client to signing them. So if I meet 10 buyers, nine of them are, you know, we're working together so we can start to tell where there's, there's, there's kinks in the, you know, in the armor to like to address. So if we're getting a lot of people under contract, but then our closed rate is just abysmal. Well, we know it's a, you know, it's a contract issue. Like do you not know how to set expectations for inspections or appraisals or speaking with the co op agent, things like that? So I would urge an individual agent, someone on a team, to always be held accountable in some sort of structure. I mean, the reality, David, is we're 100% commission based. It's feast or famine. And so when I first started, I treated this as a business. I was in the office, 8 o' clock every day, getting my call list ready, getting ready for scripting, not doing the fun stuff, but, you know, keeping in contact and developing relationships with people that at some point needed to buy or sell residential real estate.
- [20:56]
A
I think that's massive what you're describing. Taking the work that has to be done and turning it from letting the client reach out to you and say, I want this and you respond to it, to being intentional about how you lead that client from wherever they are to where they're going. If you've read the three books, which we're going to talk about a little bit here, you're familiar with the sales funnel, right? This is a way that I figured out how do we take all of the different things across your desk in a day and classify them and give you a job to do. And then I also came up with something called the lead funnel, which we've got here. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you'll see it. If you're on Apple, we'll try to talk you through it. But this was the way that I would teach agents how you convert a lead, what you're supposed to do. So the very first thing is you contact a lead, and the most important thing is the speed. People do not care if they are contact within 24 hours. If I call someone and they don't answer the phone, I am calling the next person and I'm talking to them. You want to be incredibly fast getting back to that lead. Once you get them on the phone, this is the qualify stage. You have to build trust with them so that they will share information with you. I want to know, does this person have a job? Does this person actually want to buy a house? Are they kicking the tires or are they legit? Well, they're not going to tell me that. They're just kicking the tires and they're wasting my time. So I got to build trust to get them to share their level of motivation, what they want to do, why they want to do it. If they're working with other people, once I've decided, like, okay, they're qualified, this is a person I want to work with. I go into the pursue phase. So this is where I'm going to be purposeful and direct. Hey, I would like to be your agent. I believe I'm the best person to help you with this, and here's why. Boom, boom, boom. What I'd like to do is have another meeting with you where I go over exactly what I do for you, how I do it, what you can expect, and get a better understanding of what it is you're looking from me. Can I set an appointment where we do that? Can I get you on a zoom call? Can I get you in the office? Can I come to your house? Can I meet you at a Starbucks? Wherever you think you can get them, you get them into that position. And that puts you in the position to build the rapport, which is what you really need. I think in the past, the way that agents handled the rapport building was they just threw you in a car, they drove you around to look at homes, and so you could kind of cheat a little bit. It's not like that now. We got to sign a contract before we even get to that point. No one gets in your car with you. They drive their own car. They look at you like you're just the person opening the door. They may have six other people, right? We used to get engaged. Now we get in situationships, and you're just another situationship to that client who doesn't want to commit to you because they don't see why they should. So you have to be intentional about what you're doing. And to your point, I think if you're not someone who's been in a system like this, you're just ignorant of how many leads are bleeding and you're not closing because you're not familiar. What are your thoughts on that?
- [23:33]
B
100%. You know, it's almost like you don't know what you don't know. And, yeah, being able to. And yeah, I like your funnel diagram as well. It's all about. It's never changed. I mean, technology AI coming after the real estate agent. It's all a relationship business, and that's all it is. And we need to give consumers value. We need to be able to articulate our value and get them to understand that. Because most agents, or, I'm sorry, most consumers, when they're polled, you can look at the stats and they want to work with an agent. I mean, we saw Zillow, right? They lost, what, $881 million on their flipping model. Even their own CEO, his estimate was 40% undervalued when he ended up selling his home. And so technology AI, it's important, but we need to brush up on our skills. And I 100% agree with you, David. I think for years we like, you know, oh, can we go see this home? Great, go show it. Open the door. Now. There needs to be more skills, more, more leveling up all of that to the consumer. Because you're right here in Cincinnati, and I know it's way worse than California. There's what, 6,500 realtors in just a greater Cincinnati area? I don't know if it's true or not. I think I heard a stat In California, one out of every 10 people is a realtor. So there is a lot of competition, a lot of good agents out there, and we need to set ourselves apart and demonstrate value to them.
- [25:11]
A
That's a good point. Now, a lot of people didn't know that I wrote books specifically for real estate agents. I think the investment books are much more popular. If you didn't like them, you don't have to say you did. I'm not looking for an endorsement here, but would you just mind sharing some of the stuff that you learned in the books and if they helped you on your career?
- [25:28]
B
Yes. And we'll. First, I'll preface with saying yes. I love them all. The one. I would say the one key takeaway that I still use today with my seller clients is I love how in skill. The second book.
- [25:47]
A
Yeah, I think that's the best one.
- [25:49]
B
I do too. And I'm partial because I love blue.
- [25:51]
A
Right.
- [25:52]
B
But in all seriousness, you know, I always use with my sellers if there's, if they're on the precipice of like, like, should I, you know, should we do a partial renovation or should we paint this or that or should we just put it on the market as is. I kind of break out that, like, what is it, that continuum that you use, like, hey, comfort on one side and then maximizing and getting the most amount of money for your, you know, for your home. And I'll just, I'll just break it down and say, look, like, look, you know, look, David, we could put your house on the market now as is not worry about the carpet, blah, blah, blah. That's going to be more comfortable. So on this side of the, of the spectrum of the continuum. But you're, you're kind of leaving money on the table, especially in this shifting market. You know, at least in Cincinnati, homes need to be priced well. They need to show well at the very least. So just, it's informing sellers. And I use that, I still use that tactic every, every time if they're like, if my seller clients are, do I really have to do that? Like, you can do whatever you want, but we're going to leave some money on the table. Just know that. And the feedback is going to be negative. So I like that. And then I liked, I like just your personal examples of how in Seoul, I've got so many books in my head right now, so your first one. You know, I've always really appreciated your personal stories when you were a police officer and, you know, just getting in the office. And I think that's, that's where I think resonated with you on a lot of those points, especially as a new agent, just getting in the office listening to other people. You know, we have our seller specialist who works here, Tyler. He'll probably sell 85 homes this year. And when I first started, I would, I would sit close to him just because, just from where I sat in the office. But I would listen to how he, he was just a total professional and how he talked to his seller clients and got people through the funnel and handled objections and all these things. If you're an independent agent or if you're an agent who chooses maybe to work from home, you're never going to, to pick up on those, those nuances. And learning from veteran agents, I mean, he's always on the phone. He's always, I think, at the most time, the most homes I. I think I saw on our leaderboard, I think he had, like, 22 pending sale. Like, so it's. These are people that are highly productive, they're super efficient. And whether you're at a brokerage, whether you're on a team, on a group, I think getting in the office and learning from those people is just so important.
- [28:30]
A
Yeah, that's massive. I know when I was new, I don't know if everyone's going to believe me. There's just certain things that are hard to imagine. I was the most introverted, shy, scared, frankly, agent there was. I didn't know what to say to people. I didn't know how to say it. I had been a cop, so I wouldn't really have to learn customer service skills. I didn't have to be attractive and alluring. I just made you do what I wanted you to do. Then I get into sales and I can't do that anymore. It didn't work to try to force people to do stuff, so I had to learn how to be convincing. And listening to other agents on the phone, doing it well, did just so much for my confidence. It's really why my career took off, because I. I felt like I was missing tools. I'm looking at a problem, a screw in a wall, and all I have is a hammer, and I don't know how to get it out. And so I give up. Like anybody would like. I just. I can't do that job. I can only work with the client. That's a nail because I have a hammer. Well, when I started to pick up screwdrivers and saws and tape measures and all these other tools now, different personalities, different types of clients, people looking for different things. I've got a tool I could grab out of my bag, and I'm like, being a contractor is the best thing ever. Like, throw. Throw it at me. What you got? I got a thing that I can fix it. And I was looking forward to conversations that I had been subconsciously avoiding. The confidence is, in my opinion, what's lacking for most people. That's why I make podcasts like this, to share the information. It's why I write the books, it's why I keep talking to people. That in your career, the best thing you can do is prioritize the knowledge you're gaining, not the split you're getting. Once you've got the knowledge, once you're good at what we're doing, you can generate leads, you can close a lot of deals. You have the leverage to go to Boshi to better split. And your boss will be happy because they're happy to give you more money. If you're closing more deals, it's the same to them. They want to get you to where you're good. They want to get you to where they can hand you a client and they know you can close it. Because if you get a lead and you don't know what you're doing, the client can sense that. They go find another contractor that's got the tools you don't have. So for me, it was massive. Being in an office and listening to the top producers, hearing them on the phone, and I'd go ask them, like, why'd you do it that way? Why aren't you going to give them a credit? And they're like, oh, they're never going to back out of this deal. They got nowhere else to go. There's nothing out there for sale. We're not giving them anything. And I know they're bluffing. Sure enough they were. But you remember what it's like when you're new and you're like, are they bluffing? Are they not bluffing? Am I really going to blow up this deal? Do I have to give them the 12,000 they're asking for? It was terrible until you get that sixth cent. So can you tell us what it was like with your journey? As you're in the office, you're on a team, you're with top producers, you're with a guy closing 20 deals at a time. Your CEO sounds like they're really squared away. They're doing a great job running the team. Just what it did for your confidence and your skills, being around people that were good.
- [31:11]
B
Absolutely. I knew that if I had a question in terms of confidence, if I had a question, I had, like our contract coach, Lisa, she's been probably practicing real estate over 35 years. There is not one scenario I could not imagine whether it was a title issue, financing inspection post clo, like, anything that I couldn't go to her as a first point of contact and the question wouldn't be answered. So that's just one resource, like. And then from a production standpoint. Yeah. The people around us, like our executive director, James, when he was in production, selling 80, 100 houses a year. We've got some other agents who are more, I would say, investor specialists. So if I've got an investor, you know, tricky nuances that are, as you know, associated with investing 1031s, tenants, utilities, all of those metrics for real, for investing. So it really helped my confidence a lot because, and I'll give you a specific example, one time, one of my first sales, I think my fourth sale in my first year, it was first time home buyers. It was my first experience with what's called a post closing occupancy. So it was a hot market. It was 2023. So in their price point too, the house was listed at 140. It was intentionally underpriced. We had to go up to 170 and give them post closing occupancy.
- [32:42]
A
Well.
- [32:44]
B
In the contract, at least in Ohio, any contract, you have 24 to 48 hours to do a final walkthrough. So I called the agent. I'm like, okay, yeah, like, I know we've got seven days post closing, but we, you know, can we, can we get our post closing scheduled? He was like, and this is an agent, probably 20, 22 years. He's like, you know, why would you do that? I've, you know, I've never. Not trying to gaslight me, but like making me feel kind of stupid or inferior. And so, yeah, I immediately went to our contract coach, Lisa. I'm like, hey, is this, I don't know. What I don't know is, is this, am I being silly or is he just being rude? And we'll just say in not so, not so many words. She had some words to say, but yes, she said like, no, it's part of the contract. I don't care what he said. And so yeah, we did our final walkthrough. Everything was fine. But I would have doubted myself a lot if I didn't have maybe someone to turn to. Or I just maybe, like you said, would have taken that one agent, like, okay, I guess we won't do the final walkthrough. And my clients would have been, would have suffered for that. And I say it all the time and now I think it all the time. You never want your clients to be the guinea pig. So whether that's scripting, role playing, attending contract classes, getting designations, anything that you can do for. I think to make yourself better as an agent, as a professional is, is never time wasted. I think I'm, I love to read, like, and I love to work. I would work probably 20 hours a day if I could. I just love it. I love real estate. I'm always reading about market trends, architectural trends, stat, you know, housing updates, what the Fed is going to do or not do. Home. Arama, like different designs. And so I can then take all that information and convey it to my client, my team agents at our brokerage. So that in of itself helps my confidence a lot. I mean, when I first started investing in Cincinnati, was listening to you and Brandon, bigger pockets. I can't make this up. I posted on the forum, I'm like, hey, I'm kind of. I'm new to real estate investing, but I might want to house hack or burr. I don't have a lot of money, but like boots on the ground, sweat equity, I can put in the work to manage. Sure enough, someone private messaged me. And I think three months later we bought our first five unit, and I think six months later we bought another five unit on the street. He happened to be someone. He's not my business partner for almost 10 years, but he happened to be stationed in Japan. He was a radiologist in the Navy. And he and his wife had high W2 income, but they weren't obviously local. But they wanted to use that income to deploy and invest in real estate. So it was a perfect situation. I managed the property. It didn't work out to where I could move in and do that, but I basically took a property management fee. It was great. I learned a lot on the job. And so where I'm going with that story is that that gave me a lot of confidence in terms of investing, is just putting yourself out there, being prepared, asking around and staying committed to trying to make something work. And at the time, BiggerPockets, the forum was the catalyst for that. I knew I could ask, I could listen to you and Brandon or Josh. I knew there were expert real estate investors and agents on the forum where I could bounce ideas off of. And so that helped my confidence a lot. You know, Tony Robbins says success leaves clues. It's just, well, follow the successful people.
- [36:28]
A
You said something that was massively powerful. I'm going to try to make sure we clip that and make a social media reel out of it. You did something most agents don't think about doing. They're usually just like, give me a lead, show houses, try to get offers rewritten, go to cocktail hour, complain about my clients. That's the lifecycle for most agents. Right? You said, I'm reading architectural magazines, I'm studying what's going on with interest rates and the Fed. I'm paying attention to the economy. This is so powerful. I think this is one of the reasons that I close more houses because I wasn't looked at like the guy that can write an offer. Everyone can do that. Or the guy that can help you find the cute kitchen. Anyone can do that. They would say, do you think it's a bad time to buy, David? Well, if you just say, no, it's a good time to buy. You have commission breath. If you say, yeah, it's a bad time to buy weight. You talked yourself out of a deal. What do you do? That's where everyone gets anxiety. I would talk about the economy. Well, here's something to consider. The Fed's printing a lot of money right now. Do you know what quantitative easing is? No. It's a big, fancy word. Don't worry about it. What it means is they're making a whole bunch of money. If we flooded the market with diamonds, do you think diamonds would become worth more or less? I think they'd be worth less. Right. Well, money is going to become worth less. So if you put your money into real estate right now, the real estate, the money becomes worth less, which makes the real estate worth more. You got to buy more of it. You're going to put the odds in your favor to see a lot of appreciation. Boom. Now they want to buy. They're afraid of not buying. They have fear of missing out, not fear of making a bad decision. Okay, same if, like, sometimes when you're like, well, the economy's tough right now. Yeah. So you need to buy in this area. Not that we don't want to put you in a bad area. When the economy's tough, you need to be in the grade A market. You're gonna have to spend a little more money, but you're gonna solidify and guarantee your investment. This is not the time to roll the dice. Roll the dice when the market's doing great. Those are conversations that agents have to have if they don't want to close people. But agents don't think about. That's their job. You do. I can almost guarantee this is why you're closing more deals, because they feel safe trusting you with an investment this big. Do you mind just elaborating on where you see agents messing this up and maybe why they need to be listening to more podcasts and educating themselves and reading more books because it will literally help them sell more homes.
- [38:37]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So, again, to kind of reference Gary Taylor, he speaks of in terms of functionary and fiduciary. Right. So a functionary, sure. We can fill out the paperwork, we can send the offer. We can do all the functionary responsibilities of an agent, but it's really the fiduciary. Excuse me. That you know, they're the agents where, and I know you've mentioned this before in your books, how you would consult clients like you're really trying to look out for their best interests. Like parts of town. There are 52 neighborhoods in Cincinnati. And so every pocket, every neighborhood has, has different nuances and pluses and minuses. And if we're looking at, you know, an area for appreciation, well, like my clients, you know, they should know that. They should know that if we do a showing, I'm going to point out if, you know, I 275A busy highway or 71, if their house backs up against that highway, that's going to hurt their marketability when it comes time to sell it. In 3, 5, 7 years, 1031 exchanges, like getting my clients set up with folks, intermediaries that can handle that. My one client, my investor client, Jared, actually has done about six or seven deals with the one brokerage. So he has a lot of really good things to say about Kevin and Tyler. But that was a result of me listening to your podcast and knowing that the current lender, you know, he was with, maybe he wanted some more options or maybe better options. And so, yeah, he's done with Kevin and Tyler. I mean, he's done, I think, three flips, three bridge loans. He's working on his seventh now, his total transactions. So, yeah, he's, you know, nothing but great things to say about them. But that was a result of me educating myself so that I knew I could make an introduction to someone that would benefit my client. And that's another thing I take very seriously. You know, this client, we've been working together two years now. We've probably done between rentals and then fix and flips, probably 25 or so units. And he's all the way out in Oregon. And so I place on myself a high level of not, not stress or pressure. But he needs to be able to trust the photographer. I set him up with the contractors, the title company, the lender. And so, you know, if I were to just do the commission breath, like help him get one or two sales that might have, that might have severed the whole relationship. But now he's my most voluminous, my most active repeat client. He's got plans to do like 50 units next year, year. So the point is, if you can, I know commission breath sometimes can be hard, but if you can really just take that out of the equation, really, and see, try to envision long term, I'll give you another real quick example. Since we're Talking about investing. My handyman one time, three years ago, was doing okayish work, and then I found that he stole one of my portable air conditioning units at one of my apartment buildings. I'm like, you know, he just shot himself in the foot for myself. And then any future referrals just because he wanted to make, what, 200 bucks pawning or selling that AC unit? And so the, you know, the river would have just kept flowing to him because I have so much work for him to do. But he cut off that relationship. And so if you see yourself as the advisor, as, as the fiduciary, I think you'll have a very long, prosperous career. I think it was Wayne Dyer said the. The extra mile is. Is never crowded. You know, the highway, the extra mile, it's never crowded. And it's true. You see those people operating and they're the ones who get the constant referrals, the repeat business, because they have such great things to say, you know, about David or his team or his brokerage. So that's. Sorry, that was kind of a long diatribe. But I'm really adamant on doing a great, great service. Being a fiduciary, not a functionary, and providing. I mean, our mission statement here at the Chabri Group is relentless representation and exceptional experiences. And I think that's why we can generate so much repeat and referral business.
- [43:01]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's huge. Your reputation's huge. Your knowledge is huge. I can tell when I talk to somebody, if I ask questions and they don't know how to answer them, they give me the runaround versus the person that will sit there and tell me about the area, the economy, what infrastructure is being put in, what part of town is going to be the one I want to get into, where I want to avoid. I like it when they push back, Doug. I like it when an agent tells me no. I know you think you want to be there. You don't. This is where everyone's going. This is why you want to avoid it. Taxes are higher, it's overbuilt. You want to be over here. Not a lot of people know about it, but to locals, they know that. That's the thing. I like it when my agent pushes back on me a little bit. Well, they're not going to do that if they don't have calls. Confidence. Yeah.
- [43:39]
B
Yeah. Good example, too. Speaking of, this investor actually is. He's almost the opposite of most investors. He's like, he's trigger happy. He's ready to go. I've got to educate him sometimes, since there are 52 areas in Cincinnati. You know, not everyone is conducive with his goals of whether it's flipping or renting. You know, some areas, they're an okayish rental area, but I would never flip a house there because there's not enough meat on the bone or appreciation. And so it's, it's.
- [44:11]
A
Yeah.
- [44:12]
B
And I think he appreciate. Well, I know he appreciates that because we talk like five times a day.
- [44:17]
A
Yeah.
- [44:17]
B
So it's. And now. Yeah, now we're good friends. And it's. That's another thing. That's another byproduct. You, you make so many amazing relationships if you just, you don't just cut her off after the sale. Right?
- [44:31]
A
Yeah, that's a huge thing. You also mentioned something that I thought gives you an advantage that I don't want to gloss over and it's that you are into investing as well. Can you share how knowledge of real estate investing or experience real estate investing actually makes it easier to sell houses and earn money as a real estate agent? Sure.
- [44:49]
B
So I, Yeah, that's a great question. What I'll do is I will. If I'm talking to property owners, you know, I will. And that's really the goal. Like anyone I talk to, I try to make it a. Sure, that's a property owner. Because, you know, if we're, if we're referring to the millionaire real estate agent, you know, in that triangle, that famous diagram leads listings and leverage, you know, listings are going to give us the most amount of leverage. So I do want to ideally be talking to sellers, but I get it right. If I'm talking to sellers, they may have the golden handcuff of a 3%. And so then I opened the discussion. Well, you know, would it make sense if we could find a, a single family in a, in a good area might need some work? You know, could we. Would you be open minded to, you know, using that as, I'm sorry, maybe using equity in your home as, you know, payment for a rental and like structuring that into, you know, what did Brandon Turner do? He did like an 18 year mortgage so that when his daughter like graduates, like it'll be a fully paid off asset. It's just having those conversations. Or if I have a client who I know, maybe they're handy and maybe their price point, maybe their income is a little lower. It's like, let's look at the properties that only might have three or four photos in the MLS. Maybe it's been listed for 40 days, you know, as long as, so long as it can qualify. But you know, would you be open minded and putting in some sweat equity getting into a home, just being a first time home buyer, fixing it up and then you know, when you're ready for that, move up that trade up home in three, five years, you know, you've got a nice down payment to use to use for that. So I think it's understanding where the client's at. I've got another client who's potentially looking into short term rentals. But again, sounds great on paper, but there's some regulations going on between like Columbus and Cincinnati where he's looking at identifying and I'm sending him those articles like, like there might be some, like, whoa, let's pump the brakes. There might be some proposed legislation or you know, banning of certain municipalities for short term rentals. Like I don't, I do not want you to get involved if that's the case. So it's giving them the information, it's arming them with the knowledge. And I think my background with investing, property management, contractors, I've certainly built a Rolodex of, of folks I can trust to handle most, most issues on a property too.
- [47:17]
A
Other than what I've asked you about, Doug, what are some things that you think new agents need to know going into their career that doesn't get talked about enough?
- [47:26]
B
I would say it's, this is not, this is not hgtv, right. Like we do not stand outside three different houses and say what do you think? Like let's write an offer on one. It can be very, very difficult when you're first getting started. I, I treated it like a job as a business. I think maybe I'm old fashioned. I know you're kind of the same way, David, but I love being in the office because that's kind of like headquarters. That's, that's base command. So just knowing that it is going to take more, more than you think and anything you think it'll take in terms of conversations, open houses, networking, just multiply your efforts at least probably by 2 or 3. Like you are going to have to talk to a lot of people, face a good amount of rejection, qualify more people. And that, that's because when the market I think is, is more acute in it, whether it's a buyer's market or seller's market, the, the trick is finding the more motivated. Right. If it's an extreme seller's market and listings are very difficult to come by, you're gonna have to Talk to more sellers, more property owners. If it's more of a buyer's market, right, you're going to have to set expectations with your buyers. Like, even though there is more inventory, like the absorption rates changed in the favor of buyers, you're going to have to kind of rein them in on the opposite side and say, hey, we've got to make an offer. And likewise with sellers, you know, setting expectations and future pacing that the market shifted, we're going to get some feedback. The prices may not be as high as, you know, we were looking for. Here's how we respond, here's how we adjust. So I think to boil it all down, newer agents are getting involved, doing more, doing more of everything, because here's the thing, and Ricky Kuris talks about this a lot, when the market does inevitably change for the better, when it rebounds, all of the people that you have been in contact with, either on a weekly newsletter, a weekly or a quarterly phone call, text messages, pop buys, inviting them to your events, your social media posts, when it comes time for those same folks who have just been kind of dormant, you know, waiting for the market or a life change to happen, you're going to be the first person they think of and you're going to capture more market share in inevitably where that, that market changes. Whereas right now we're what today? Well, today's October, I'm sorry, today's Halloween. And so a lot of agents for now are just kind of checked out. I love this time of year because we do business planning. I double down on my marketing and my, my pop buys, my reach outs. Knowing that Q1, all the activities that I do now are going to show up, you know, in our bank, in our bank accounts, 30, 60, 90 days from now. So it's not like January 1st is going to come and then, oh, I better start hitting the phones. All of we talk about lead indicators, which are conversations and appointment setting because the lag indicators, those are going to be the homes in escrow and the closed homes, right? You need all of those front end activities to, to load your pipeline. And so the time for that starts, starts now.
- [50:47]
A
I think that's great, great idea. It's super hard. I talked about this in some of the books. You might have been subconsciously referring to it to move from a W2 mindset to a 1099. It just doesn't get talked about enough. It's like the big gaslighting thing in real estate where you don't realize you've subconsciously been conditioned to show up and wait for someone to tell you what to do at a W2 job. And you've also been subconsciously conditioned to avoid responsibility for everything you can and make someone else do it. You get in the 1099 world, no one tells you what to do. You have to seek accountability. If you're not on the team, you're probably not getting it. You show up at the office and your just brain is expecting to be rewarded for being there. You don't have the discipline you're describing and you have to be intentional about going after it. You have to treat it like a business. Most people don't know how to do that because it's a no fault of their own. They've never had to. Someone else had a business. They worked inside the business. Now you are the business. And so agents, you gotta adapt that attitude. I'd recommend reading the book Sold and Skill for sure to sort of start the process of planting these seeds of what to do. And then I'd also recommend finding a mentor in your office that you can help do it for free. They got a bunch of listings. They don't like putting in the pictures, they don't like writing the description. They don't like whatever. Help them with it. They got a bunch of buyers and they want to go out of town. Offer to show their buyers houses while they're out of town. Find that person and become their best friend. Friend that sells a lot of houses and become the one they lean on when they need something. You'll either become a business partner, you'll get a little bit of money for helping them out. They'll help you learn more or like you, Doug, join a team and figure out how to do it. For people that want to reach out to you, ask more questions. I think that they will. This was a really good show. Where can they go? Sure.
- [52:25]
B
So my Instagram is official. Doug Phillips. That sounds really pretentious, but I think I was like 16 when I made it. And then I can link, you know, if you want my. My cell phone in the. In the notes of the remarks. But Our website is asktcg.com so A S K T C G is in the Shabri group. But yeah, Facebook. Doug Phillips. I'm not too hard to find and I always love helping out or talking real estate.
- [52:51]
A
All right, man. The last question we started asking everybody before they go. What's something that you've always wanted to ask me but never been able to?
- [53:01]
B
Yeah. So I guess what. That's a good. That's a good Question kind of caught me off guard.
- [53:10]
A
Sprung it on you last minute here.
- [53:12]
B
Yeah, I guess. What's your morning routine like?
- [53:17]
A
Okay, here's the secret. I'm not going to give you guys the, like the liver king. I lay outside with the sun on my butt and I make sure I absorb the nutrients of the earth. If, if I. Mornings are very important for me because if I get a slow start, I slip into like a mindset of discomfort. I don't want to get it firing, I don't know what it is, but I'm like this, I'm like. It's kind of like an all or nothing thing. So I can't sit around, have a cup of coffee, read the newspaper, listen to the birds chirp, meditate for 30 minutes. I'll fall back asleep. I have to get up, shower, shave, brush my teeth, get dressed and hit the door. I need to get moving at whatever I'm doing. If I'm recording that day, I have to jump into recording. I can't start looking at emails because my mind will drift and next thing I know it's been 45 minutes to an hour. I didn't do anything. Building momentum is crazy important. If I have nothing to do, I will sometimes just get in the car and drive to the gas station and get some caffeine. Because it gets me moving, it gets me thinking, right? Once I get moving, I need to start stacking momentum. Phone calls lead into zoom, calls lead into recordings, lead into ideas, lead into making notes, lead into delegating things. Then I see what comes my way and I've got some momentum. So when all this stuff hits me that other people couldn't solve, it doesn't feel overwhelming. But if I'm not warmed up, I don't know. Like the best analogies, when I start running, I start really slow. I don't just start running fast. I need a half mile of build up at a tiny pace to get my muscles warmed up and my lungs used to it. And once I'm going, I can then kick it up. But if I start off fast, I just burn out if I'm not ready. When all that stuff hits me, it can be overwhelming because it's. When you own the company, it's all the stuff that nobody else wants to deal with. So I don't share that very often. But that's the truth is I know my weakness. I know that I'm really good if I get momentum and I'm really bad if I don't.
- [55:05]
B
Yeah, no, I, I appreciate that and I'M just. Yeah, I'm the same way. Like, and that's what. That's again, to kind of tie this, put a bow on it and tie it back.
- [55:13]
A
I.
- [55:13]
B
That's why I like working the office. If I just kind of get up, coffee, work from home, you know, I find myself okay, there's some laundry, there's some dishes, and like, 11:30 comes. It's like, what have I done today? So environment, I think, is another. Is another important part, too. I'm sure, as you're aware.
- [55:33]
A
What do you say is another part, too?
- [55:36]
B
Environment.
- [55:36]
A
Environment. Okay. Yeah, that's a big thing. Getting around the right people with the right mentality. I miss having an office. It was nice going there. I just couldn't get anyone to want to go to the office. Everybody's like, I don't want to go there. And so many of my people work remote in different states. It's tough putting that together, but I think that's really big. It's something about being around other humans that shifts the pattern of your brain waves.
- [55:58]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Energy, the way I see it as energy, is always moving in some state or fashion. You're either integrating or disintegrating. And when you're around positive, productive people, like, naturally, your energy just raises and you just start doing better things and more of it.
- [56:17]
A
That's a great point. Yeah. I think your subconscious is picking up on what other people do and it's mimicking it and copying it. And when you're not around other people, all you know is what you already know, and everything you already know is what got you here. If you want to get to the next level, you got to be around people that know more than you do. That's some really good stuff. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate you being on. We'll have to do this again. Congratulations with your work. And tell your owner if he wants me to do a presentation for a group or something, I'd be happy to come in and talk about the stuff from the books.
- [56:44]
B
Yeah, no, absolutely. I appreciate that, David. And yeah, thank you for everything that you're doing for the real estate community. Truly, I appreciate it.
- [56:51]
A
Yeah, man. You keep hitting the environment with a sonic boom like you were designed to.
- [56:56]
B
Sonic boom.
- [56:56]
A
Yep.
- [56:58]
B
Yeah.
- [56:58]
A
And, folks, thank you very much for listening. Let me know in the comments what you thought of today. Today's show, what you thought about Doug's story and what you think we should have covered so I know for the next time. Also remember, today's show was sponsored by Coast To Coast Real Estate. This is my real estate brokerage where we are recruiting agents and brokers in different states. If you'd like to be a part of the training that you got on today's show, a support system like what Doug talked about and a family environment, you should reach out to me. Just go to davidgreen24.com and use the chat feature and let me know what state you're in and what you'd like to know about coast to coast real estate. If you're doing great, keep doing what you're doing. But if you feel like you could be getting more or you're lacking something, I'm here for you. Let me know. We'll see you guys next week on Real talk. Realtor. Sa.