Real Talk Realtor with Angela Heydorn - Selling a Home (From the Seller's Perspective) | Episode 52

Summary

The David Greene Show: Episode 52 Summary Title: Real Talk Realtor with Angela Heydorn - Selling a Home (From the Seller's Perspective) Release Date: April 15, 2025

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Introduction and Guest Background

In Episode 52 of Real Talk Real Estate, host David Greene welcomes his project manager, Angela Heydorn, to provide a unique perspective on selling a home from the seller's side. Unlike typical discussions that focus on the realtor's challenges, this episode delves into Angela's personal experience as a seller, offering valuable insights for real estate professionals aiming to better understand and serve their clients.

Acquisition of the Property

Angela begins by explaining how she acquired her short-term rental property in Crystal Beach, Texas, through a 1031 exchange during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Angela [02:44]: "I bought it with a 1031 exchange... It fit within my buy box, so I thought I trusted people that maybe I shouldn't have trusted and bought a beach house."

Crystal Beach, despite being near Galveston and only an hour south of Houston, was relatively unknown. Angela trusted her network, which included individuals with short-term rental experience and real estate agents, believing it was an up-and-coming market.

Initial Challenges and Financial Reality

Six months into ownership, Angela realized the venture was financially unsustainable. Despite modest investments in furniture and minor repairs, the numbers were not aligning with her projections.

Angela [05:12]: "Probably about $20,000, conservatively."

David [05:17]: "So you're coming in around like $3,500 a month less than what you thought. So you're not only not making money, but you're losing money on this deal."

Angela was facing a monthly loss of approximately $3,500, totaling an annual deficit of around $20,000. This financial strain was compounded by high insurance costs and taxes in Galveston County.

Experiences with Real Estate Agents

Angela's primary frustration stemmed from her interactions with two real estate agents who failed to effectively market her property.

First Agent:

• Overemphasis on personal branding and marketing herself rather than focusing on the property.
• Excessive use of videos and photography that prioritized her image over the house.
• Ignored Angela’s budget constraints for property updates.

Angela [16:30]: "I was like, how many times do we need to go here? ... it's all about like, well, I'm going to do this and I'm going to market it this way."

Second Agent:

• Similar shortcomings with an added lack of communication and support.
• Continued to recommend costly interior redesigns despite Angela's limited budget.

Angela [19:13]: "And this was always her suggestion... her one trick was, you need to spend a crazy amount of money on interior design."

Angela felt that these agents were more interested in securing their commissions and leveraging her listing to attract more clients rather than genuinely assisting her in selling the property.

Emotional and Financial Impact

The prolonged inability to sell the property placed significant emotional and financial strain on Angela. She had to juggle two mortgages, ultimately forcing her to move back with her parents.

Angela [24:27]: "I could not afford both mortgages, which forced me to move back in with my parents for a time because I could not afford both mortgages."

This period was marked by intense anxiety, constant financial worry, and a sense of failure, especially after successfully managing a property in Salt Lake City before the Crystal Beach venture.

Resolution and Selling the Property

After enduring six months with two ineffective agents, Angela's hopes were rekindled by her neighbor, who offered to list her property. This new agent took a proactive and client-focused approach, leading to a successful sale within two months, albeit at a loss.

Angela [33:11]: "I think I can get rid of it for this price. ... he did whatever he could to get rid of this house."

Despite selling the property for $325,000—$50,000 less than her purchase price of $375,000—Angela felt a profound sense of relief.

Angela [37:19]: "The day it closed, I drank some whiskey and I celebrated. ... I felt like a big weight had been lifted."

Lessons Learned for Realtors

Angela emphasizes the critical importance of realtors genuinely listening to their clients' needs and tailoring their strategies accordingly. She highlights the pitfalls of prioritizing personal marketing over client-focused solutions and the necessity of honest communication regarding pricing and market conditions.

Angela [38:17]: "The biggest thing is listening to your clients... instead of just sticking to, okay, I'm going to put my face on all of the marketing for it."

David agrees, stressing that realtors need to account for the seller's emotional and financial well-being rather than solely focusing on closing the sale.

Upcoming Episode Teaser

David hints at the next episode, where he and Angela will discuss additional property sales, the challenges faced with different agents across various states, and share actionable advice for realtors to improve their client interactions and sales strategies.

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Notable Quotes

• Angela [05:12]: "Probably about $20,000, conservatively."
• Angela [16:30]: "How many times do we need to go here? ... I'm selling myself and not the house."
• Angela [19:13]: "Her one trick was, you need to spend a crazy amount of money on interior design."
• Angela [37:19]: "I felt like a big weight had been lifted."
• Angela [38:17]: "Listening to your clients... instead of just sticking to, okay, I'm going to put my face on all of the marketing for it."

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Conclusion

This episode provides a compelling narrative from Angela Heydorn's perspective as a home seller, highlighting the profound impact that realtors' practices can have on their clients. It serves as a cautionary tale for real estate professionals to prioritize client needs, maintain transparent communication, and adopt a client-centric approach to foster trust and achieve successful outcomes.

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Stay Tuned: For more insights and detailed discussions on selling properties from the client's viewpoint, don't miss the next episode of Real Talk Real Estate with David Greene and Angela Heydorn.

Transcript

[David Green]

Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate, the show where we cover how to build wealth in real estate with no fluff, no BS and no sales pitches. I'm David Green and I've been doing this for over 10 years. I've seen the ups, the downs, and everything in between. This is the show where we pull back the curtain and show it to you too. So if you want to build wealth through real estate or you just love learning about it, you found your home. What's going on, everyone? Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate. This is the Real Talk Realtors podcast. I'm David Green, your host. Thank you for joining me today. If you haven't already done so and you're watching this on YouTube, please take a minute to go subscribe to the podcast on Apple or Spotify if you like the show. As many of you already know, Real Talk Real Estate was designed to provide a behind the curtains look at the reality of real estate. This could be investing in real estate, owning real estate, flipping real estate, or working in real estate. I have a mortgage company, I have a real estate team, I have a property management company. So I kind of see real estate from every single angle. And I have found that the best real estate agents know more than just how to put a house in the mls. They know how to analyze the numbers on an investment property. They know what their clients are going through. They know how financing works, they know how appraisals work. So this show is dedicated to helping make you a better real estate agent. And we're going to do that today in kind of a unique way. I brought one of my employees on, Angela. She's my project manager. She works very closely with a lot of stuff. If you guys are signed up for my behind the Shine newsletter, Angela actually helps put that together. So if you're not signed up for that, head over to Real Talk real estate.com text-letter and sign up for that. It's got free stuff and Angela has been helping me with selling some properties. She also had a property of her own that she sold and I think she's got a very unique perspective on what it's like to work with real estates, both with her sale and with mine. We're going to share what that perspective has been like from a non licensed neutral party so that all the Realtors can learn what it looks like to be on the other side of the transaction. A lot of the time in podcasts we focus on what the Realtor's feeling and what's stressing out the realtor. But we don't talk about the client. And frankly, if you want to be a top producer, you need to know how your client is experiencing things and cater to them rather than expecting them to. To cater to you. So without further ado, Angela, welcome to the show.

[Angela]

Thanks, David.

[David Green]

Thank you for agreeing to do this. Now, everyone, this is Angela's first time, so she might seem a little nervous, but give her time and you will see why everybody in my team tends to like Angela more than everybody else. All right, so Angela, you had a short term rental in Texas, Crystal beach market. Let's start off by talking about how you bought it, who you bought it through, and why you bought it in the first place.

[Angela]

Yeah, of course. So my. I bought it with a 1031 exchange. So this is not. This is kind of similar to one of your situations, but I bought it with a 1031 exchange. I was trying to get out of another property and it was peak Covid time. So I was being priced out of the Smokies, which was my first choice. And because people couldn't travel internationally, they were traveling to Crystal Beach, Texas, which if you've never heard of that, that doesn't surprise me. It's about an hour and 15 minutes south of Houston. So it's a local market people could get to. It's a beat. It's next to Galveston, which is crazy because it's very close, but most people haven't heard of it. So I did a 1031 exchange. Had some people that I trusted at the time said, hey, this is an up and coming market. It fit within my buy box. So I thought I trusted people that maybe I shouldn't have trusted and bought a beach house. Which you think you would be excited about buying a beach house. And I quickly knew probably within about six months of buying that property that it was not going to go well.

[David Green]

Now, was the people that you were relying on to get the information to buy this property, were they real estate agents? Was this an investment group? Had you joined a mastermind who told you about it?

[Angela]

Yeah, they were a little bit of everything. So they had short term rental experience. They also, they owned their own properties, plus they were agents. So they had a little. They were, well, had a well rounded experience.

[David Green]

Okay, so these, this group that you meet, they teach short term rentals, rental operators how to invest. They told you about Crystal Beach. You said, hey, these are the experts. I'll go by there. Is that right?

[Angela]

Correct? Yeah.

[David Green]

All right. What happened six months in that caused you to kind of think twice?

[Angela]

Yeah. So the numbers. And granted, I also should say this was my first short term rental. So at the end of the day, I signed the papers, but there was a lot of information I didn't know and the numbers were just not panning out the way I wanted them to be. So I thought, okay, well, I had to buy all new furniture and I didn't have to do a lot to this house. I painted the interiors, bought new beds, classic stuff. But I didn't do anything crazy because I didn't have a lot of money to invest in the, in the repairs or anything like that. So the numbers were just not looking the way they were that I originally thought they were going to look.

[David Green]

How far off were they from the projections that you were given by the people that helped you buy it?

[Angela]

Probably about 20,000, conservatively.

[David Green]

So you're coming in around like 3,500amonth less than what you thought. So you're not only not making money, but you're losing money on this deal.

[Angela]

Yep, exactly.

[David Green]

All right, how did you feel? Like, what were you. Because you're obviously not expecting that. You're listening to the Bigger Pockets podcast. You're hearing all the other people talk about how much money they're making and how you got to get into it, and now you're losing money on this deal. Did you think it was your fault?

[Angela]

Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm the type person that's going to look at myself first and figure out, okay, what am I doing wrong? I know I don't have money to invest in a hot tub or a pool or anything like that, but this house is. There's nothing wrong with it. 3 bedroom, 2 bath, walking distance to the beach. Now it's the Gulf. We all know the Gulf. There are nicer beaches to go to than the Gulf of America, Gulf of Mexico at the time. But yeah, I quickly was thinking, okay, this is my first short term rental. I have long term rental experience, which translates a little bit. But at first glance, I was thinking, are my rates too low? Are they too high? I don't have the. Maybe some of the other amenities that other people have. But it's a beach market. So you have games, you've got porch swings, you got a nice deck and things like that. But beyond that, everything's pretty similar.

[David Green]

Okay, so when did you realize, hey, this isn't me, this is the property or the market or something else?

[Angela]

Yeah, so I bought in. I think I closed January 1st or December 31st of 2021, and I might be a year off but Covid times. So I would say about a year, a year into it, because then I had a full high season. So high season is going to be summer when people are vacationing there. So I would say about that first spring, after about a year after I had bought it, I was like, I. I think I need to get rid of this thing.

[David Green]

Yeah, all right. So when you had to get rid of it, was it an easy decision? Were you just like, all right, I'll dump it, or was it tougher than that?

[Angela]

So a little more background. The hardest part was I sold a property. I did the 10:31 exchange and a property that I sold that I to this day kicking myself that should not have sold that property was in Salt Lake City. And if I still have that property now, I. I am kicking myself for selling it in the first place. But it was part of me having some growing pains and not feeling comfortable with managing that property in Salt Lake City. So I. It just hurt my heart because I really did not want to sell this short term rental. And I again, I first looked at myself thinking I was doing something wrong. So. But there was something inside of me. I felt convicted somehow that I need to get rid of this house. Because I could see other people were about to start selling their house. I'm looking, I'm doing, I'm looking at other properties near mine. I also don't think they're renting. There was a lot of issues. There was a lot of red flags. So immediately I was like, I need to get this on the market before everyone else does.

[David Green]

Now, is that also part of the reason it wasn't renting as much as you wanted because there was too much competition for the amount of people that were visiting there?

[Angela]

Yeah, it's kind of crazy because it's a. So you have Galveston, which has a boardwalk. There's bars, restaurants, all the nightlife you want. And then you take a ferry ride over to Crystal Beach. You've got houses on stilts, you've got one grocery store, a couple of restaurants. And I have a friend who also bought near the same time. She bought a brand new house and she was also not renting it. But it was crazy because you could see just during this time of COVID you saw all these houses going up, these brand new houses. And I'm looking at like, I've been to a lot of different beaches within the US And I'm just thinking to myself, why would anyone come here? It does not have the amenities, the taxes are so high, the insurance was Outrageous. And I, I could quickly see the writing on the wall.

[David Green]

But that's not what you were told when the agent recommended for you to buy it. So do you think that your agents didn't understand the market or do you think they didn't care and they just wanted a sale? What do you think went wrong with the way that your agent advised you to buy that property?

[Angela]

Yeah, it's a. It was a crazy time. I think a part of it was. Most of us have not been through a global pandemic before. So again, I signed the papers. At the end of the day, I think they wanted to. I think they wanted to believe this market was going to blow up. It was going to be the next, you know, South Florida or whatever, which is crazy. Or even gal. I mean, even Galveston, I think is struggling now. But I think they wanted to believe that that was, this market was going to be amazing. But deep down, I'm pretty sure they knew that this is probably going to be temporary.

[David Green]

It's a very charitable answer. So you, you don't think that you kind of got scammed by the agents that gave you bad information? You think that they were honestly wrong in picking that market?

[Angela]

I, you know, I like taking accountability, David. So I will say again, I signed the papers. At the end of the day, I did not have the short term rental experience. I do feel I was misled, that is for sure. However, I'm not going to take myself out of the equation for the part that I played in it.

[David Green]

I can understand that and I appreciate your perspective there. I'm asking this question more for the realtors that are listening to this. When they feel pressure to push someone into a sale, when they're told by their coaching programs, hey, you gotta get the sale closed. Or maybe they're told that they need to be pushier. It's hard as an agent to navigate when you need to hold someone's feet to the fire and say, you gotta buy this house, and when you need to let them make their own decisions. Because I'm assuming these are not the same people that you went to when you wanted to sell the house. You weren't too happy, right?

[Angela]

Correct. Yeah. And so my experience before that, I have an absolutely amazing agent in Salt Lake City. So that was. I was, I was spoiled with that.

[David Green]

Agent and you probably expected a similar scenario with the new people.

[Angela]

And she, she has always been upfront and honest with me on houses that I've paid, that I've bought. And so I figured this agent, looking back, I wish he would have said, hey, make sure you have money in your. I mean, people talk about having money in reserves, but hey, insurance is really expensive and taxes in Galveston county are one of the highest in the country. And things like that, that they're just like, no, you're going to make all this money. We have all this information on the side. We're not going to tell you, but.

[David Green]

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so you had a bad experience with the buyer's agent here. Now you're stuck with this property. It's bleeding money. You don't see any upside. You don't have a bunch of money to dump into it to try to rescue it. Your only option appears to sell before you run out of money. What was your hesitation with agreeing to sell it?

[Angela]

It's hard to let go of property sometimes. It's. It was my first short term rental. I also was told, I know it's not a hard and fast rule, but because I did a 1031 exchange, I was not super clear on how long I needed to hold onto the property because I thought I was going to come out of it and make a little bit of money. Nothing astronomical, but I was afraid if I came out of it with, you know, 50, $50,000, I was going to pay taxes on that. So I. There's allegedly no hard and fast rule about how long you have to keep a property when you do a 1031 exchange. But I knew I had. I thought I had to keep it for at least two years.

[David Green]

That's probably because you conflated that with the primary residence home buyer rule. That happens a lot in real estate is we mix rules from different things together. So that makes sense to me. I believe you would have had to pay the capital gains on it if you sold it. And like, let's say you sold it for what you paid for it, you would have to pay the capital gains from whatever you would have made on the first one. But in this case, not only did you not make a profit on it, not only could you not sell it and break even, but you were actually going to have to lose money on this deal, right?

[Angela]

Yes, but I didn't know that until after had been listed for a very long time.

[David Green]

Okay, so how did you realize and actually swallow that pill that you were gonna have to, like, bite the bullet and lose money on this real estate deal?

[Angela]

Oh, this is just like bringing bad memories up. I love rehashing this story. So I listed it for about 75,000. I had sold this eight months prior to us having this conversation. So rehashing some of the details, I sold it, was listed for 75, 000 more than I had bought it for. Crickets. Barely any showings, no interest at all. And so that was the first agent I actually used. The agent I should, looking back, I shouldn't have done this, but I used the agent that had sold me the house at first. So after six months, I think I had a contract for six months, which at the time I didn't know if that was normal. I didn't know that you could say, I only want a 3 months, 3 month contract. See how this works. He didn't really do anything and he messed up some of the numbers. It just seemed disorganized. So I said, told him, hey, I need to find a new agent. Which also is something I didn't have experience with. So I was nervous about finding a new agent and cutting ties with that. So he didn't really do anything. The second agent was the type of agent who thought her face was going to sell the property.

[David Green]

All right, let me, let me stop you there. You're being charitable again. Give me some details of what this type of agent acted like look like did. So everybody listening can know if they're being that agent or if they're maybe admiring that agent. Like, oh, I wish I could be like that person. Let's hear the perspective of the person selling their house when there's an agent who's behaving like you're about to say.

[Angela]

So. She was very nice, southern Texas woman. I'll start with saying that however she was putting, she was. She spent a lot of time doing videos of the house. And I even thought in my head, is she selling herself or is she selling my house? She had several different photographers, several different videographers. I'm like, how many times do we need to go here? And I even heard on my, the head ring cameras. And I heard her say on the camera once, and she was like worried about the humidity and her hair. And I just laughed because I'm like, you're on the Gulf. Like, you're in Texas. Of course, in the middle of summer. Of course it's hot and humid. You're from South Texas. So it was just irritating because it was all about like, well, I'm going to do this and I'm going to market it this way. And I'm going to market it this way. And I'm like, all I hear is you selling yourself and not the house.

[David Green]

So that's what we're getting at. Again, very charitable answer. You guys can see why everybody likes Angela. Cause she's not like me, and she says nice things. But what we're talking about is the realtor, who likes the attention they get for having the listing and is sort of using this listing to obviously market to new clients. She's. She's not selling your house. She's selling herself. In fact, our good buddy Tracy Strike out here in Tulsa mentioned this to me before. He's like, she's the kind of agent that you gotta ask yourself, is she selling your house or is she selling herself? That's where this idea came from. I think a lot of agents see that, and they're envious of it. They're like, man, I wish I had the confidence to go and put myself out there like that. And I wish I was comfortable in front of a camera. But you're bringing the perspective that you didn't appreciate that you thought her mind should be on what's the best angle to get of the kitchen or how do I show the deck and the best lighting? Not, does my hair look good? Do I look good in this video? That you may even argue is taking attention away from the property and putting it onto herself. Right?

[Angela]

Yeah, absolutely. And the funny thing is, I never saw any of these photos or videos or marketing. The only thing I saw were the actual photos of the house. And there was a drone video, which I felt like was needed. But I felt she spent all of this time and she wasn't from there. So I think it was, like a bit of a drive for her to get down there, too. She spent all this time, and I'm thinking you could have spent this time trying to sell the house instead of putting your face in front of my house.

[David Green]

It's a solid point. All right, so this is how this appears when somebody is working with a realtor who's obviously using the listing to promote their business themselves, get more clients, which there's. I don't think you would have minded that that is going to happen. You just wanted to feel like she was working for you, not for herself. Right?

[Angela]

Correct. Yeah. I. I also. She also didn't listen to me because at the time, I didn't have money to update it. I know I needed a new couch. I knew that I needed a new dining room table. Would it have sold it? I. I don't know. But I kept saying, I don't really have money. I have a very small budget for updates. If you think that's going to sell it. And her answer, every single Time was, well, I'll bring an interior designer. I'll bring in this person. They can sell you all this stuff. And it's like, I would have loved to have done that, but it was just not an option for me at the time. I had bought this very similar timing to when I bought this house in Texas. I had bought a new primary, so I was floating both of those mortgages at the same time, which is kind of what got me into trouble. But I just didn't have the finances at the time to be spending all this money on expensive upgrades that she was also recommending.

[David Green]

Do you think she was recommending them because she was getting a cut from the people that she was recommending you use? And she didn't actually have answers for how to sell the house, so she was trying to bring in other experts and then maybe get kickback from them.

[Angela]

Yeah, probably. That was all. That was always her suggestion. And this is something I've noticed with other Realtors that they always have. They have a bag of tricks, so to say, but they don't have very many tricks. Her one trick was, you need to spend a crazy amount of money on interior design. So that's probably accurate.

[David Green]

This is really good. Now, as long as you guys keep listening, you're going to hear Angela and I, after we get done with the story, we're going to talk about some houses I'm selling that Angela's communicating with the realtors on. And we have literal, specific stories of questions that came in, of things realtors wanted to do, of areas where we got stuck, and we're going to share those details. And I'm going to say, as the experienced real estate owner or investor, this is what I told Angela to tell the agents, because that's what I would have done. So you guys are going to get a really thorough picture here of what it's like to be on the opposite end of a transaction if you haven't sold a house yourself. Okay, so this agent sells your house. Was she good at communicating? Did she tell you how many showings that you were getting? Did she recommend you drop the price? Like, what did she do to help sell your home?

[Angela]

Well, she didn't sell it. I don't know if that was clear earlier, but she was not the one that actually sold it.

[David Green]

No, I understand that, but what. Sorry, what did she do to try to sell your home?

[Angela]

Oh, she allegedly put out all of this marketing material that I never saw, and occasionally there would be a showing, and she. It. I think. I can't remember the timeline. But I had bookings and she would encourage me to not book the property or block my calendar, which I really didn't want to do. Because you're losing money. Yeah, I needed all of the. Like I said, I cannot stress this enough. If anyone owns in South Texas, they know how expensive insurance and taxes are. And I couldn't afford to lose a thousand dollar booking or whatever. It was like work around the guest or have like it also it looks good that I have bookings, so why would you want me to cancel those or block my calendar? That's crazy.

[David Green]

Yep. Okay, so how long did she get it? Was it another six month contract?

[Angela]

Yep. So it was another. I think it, I, I want to say it was another six months.

[David Green]

So you're 12 months in, in selling your home and you got, did you get offers? Did you like, did you get anything?

[Angela]

Not during either of those times. I had a couple of handful of showings, but I did not have any offers during either of those times with either, either of those agents. I don't think I had any offers.

[David Green]

Okay, this is brutal. Take a minute here. As transparent as you're willing to be for the audience and tell us what emotions are you going through as you've gone through two agents and you don't feel like either of them had the skill or the knowledge to sell your property?

[Angela]

Oh yeah, it was hard because I had to keep lowering the price. Now I won't give away the ending yet, but I bought this house for 375. We first listed it at 450. I think by time she. I think by the time that I ended the contract with her, it was probably maybe like 395, I think we went down to. But yeah, I mean I was desperate. I would have done anything besides spend money to sell the property because I didn't have the money to spend to put into the property. So I mean I'm praying about this every single day desperately. I'm not praying about anything else. I just desperately need to get rid of this property because my holding costs were so expensive. And I think December, January I'd get Christmas and New Year's booked and then halfway through February I'd get a very cheap booking. And you have spring break and stuff, which starts and then the high season. But. And I was desperate. I was so desperate I would have done anything to get rid of this house.

[David Green]

So you're dropping the price, you're worried all the time. You're full of anxiety, you're praying a ton. Was there an Element where you wondered, like, is God even hearing these prayers? Does anybody care? Like, what. What kind of thoughts are going through your head?

[Angela]

Yeah, I. I don't know if you want to go down this rabbit hole, but I being totally transparent because I had this other primary residence. I could not afford both mortgages, which forced me to move back in with my parents for a time because I could not afford both mortgages. So, again, I'm desperately praying to try and get rid of this house because this is not a good situation for me to be in. I. Gosh, yeah. I mean, I'm questioning everything at this point. Why does God have me here? What is the purpose of this? And, you know, that's a way longer story, as you know. But, yeah, it was. It was a rough time.

[David Green]

So you're moving in with your parents, not able to live in your own home, not getting sleep, praying constantly full of anxiety, watching your savings go away, looking at the calendar every. This whole house is like consuming the majority of your thoughts, and you're watching the realtor that you hired to sell it, advertising herself. Like, how often is she calling to check on you to see how you're feeling, to talk through your options, to give you an update? Like, what's that process like?

[Angela]

Yeah, I never heard from her. The only time I heard from her was when I would reach out and then she would say, oh, I've. I've got some ideas. I've. I've got some things I think that'll really work to sell it. And same thing, her idea every time was let's spend $10,000 on interior designer. And. And I don't want to say they don't. They do a great job. I just didn't have the funds, which I kept telling her, which I was getting frustrated because she wasn't listening to me. Like, there's got to be another option, which there was.

[David Green]

Which was dropped the price. Like, did she mention that to you at all?

[Angela]

She didn't want to. She didn't. I think maybe we dropped it maybe about $20,000 the time that she had it. But it was always, let's spend money to sell the house.

[David Green]

Yeah. That's what makes me wonder if she may have had referral partners that she was in business with that she's trying to get revenue out of. But what I'd like to highlight here is the client is going through massive stress and strain, and the agent is just stringing you along with, oh, we're going to be okay, and giving you platitudes and Trying to make more money for themselves and trying to use your listing to get more clients because she wants to tap into selling more houses in that market. If you were to follow whoever this agent was on her Facebook, you'd have no idea what their clients are going through. You'd see someone that looks like they're all put together. But meanwhile, this is what the person who's got the property is having to deal with. I wonder if the agent was having to come out of pocket for your expenses, if they would have had such a casual attitude about her, if it might have changed. So what ends up happening? Did you finally just have, like, the we're gonna break up conversation? Did the contract run out? How did you end up moving on?

[Angela]

Yeah, so it was fortunate the contract ran out during the low season, which, you know, of course, you're not going to get that many showings during that time either. And the whole time this was happening, my neighbor. Now, it was very convenient. My next door neighbor, he owns the house next to where mine was. He worked for one of the local property management and real estate companies where the house is. And he was, the whole time, he was never pushy, but he was like, hey, if you want me to help you sell it, let me know. And he knew when I listed it, he knew I listed with another agent. He knew that I switched to a new agent. And this whole time, he was still. He was not pushy. He wasn't angry. I was worried that he was going to be mad, that because we were. We. Because he was my neighbor, we became friends. He was always looking out for my house. He'd call me when something would go wrong and things like that. So he kind of just waited in the wings for a while. And eventually I was like, hey, I'm. I'm desperate here. How can you help me?

[David Green]

And what did he say?

[Angela]

And he was happy to list it. He's like, yeah, let's get rid of this. I'll do. You know, we had the. A tough conversation. What do you. What's. What do you owe on it? How low can you go? How. Like, how desperate are you really to get rid of this? Because I will get rid of this thing for you. So he did whatever he could. He didn't tell me to block my calendar. If we had a showing, he would bring my guests a case of beer and say, hey, can you leave for an hour? We've got a showing. Yeah. He would do anything he could to get rid of this house.

[David Green]

Okay, tough question here. If your first or second Realtor had the same conversation with you. Hey, this is what it's going to sell for, this is what it's worth. I'm assuming he went over your competition. If he didn't do it with you, he probably did in his own mind. To understand what he had to price it at, would you have listened to them or would you have argued and said, no, you're going to list it at the price I say.

[Angela]

I mean, anytime an agent's going to tell me I need to drop the price to sell it, I'm probably going to listen because I know that that affects what they're getting paid. So I'm sure I'm not an agent, obviously, but I'm sure that you don't want to drop the price if you don't have to because it affects their commission. So if they had an honest conversation, was like, this is where you got to drop it to sell it, I would, I think I would have listened probably.

[David Green]

So maybe if they would have said, hey, here's where we think it's going to sell for. And you said, man, I need this much. And they just said, okay, let's start it here and if it doesn't sell in three, four, five weeks, whatever, let's drop it to my price. Maybe you could have had a compromise. Do you think you'd have been open to that conversation?

[Angela]

I think so. For sure. Maybe not as immediately, once I listed it, but I had no, I didn't really. It was hard to get rid of this house, but I didn't have ties to it. I never. I think this happens to a lot of people actually, that they buy a short term rental and they think they're going to use it. They think they're going to go and visit with their family and everyone has this vision. They're going to take their kids there, they're going to go on vacations. That's not the case. You go down there, you're tightening screws, you're buying furniture, you're spending money, you've got anxiety about all the work you have to do. There's a chip in the countertop, the dining room chairs don't match. Every time I went down there, it was not a vacation at all in any stretch of the imagination. So if they said, hey, this is what you got to do to get rid of it, I would have been like, great, you can have it now.

[David Green]

Did they go over a comparative market analysis with you to show you how many houses you were competing with and what percentage of them were pending? Did anyone do that with you.

[Angela]

Only the third agent, which was kind of brave of him because he probably would have assumed these other two agents did the same thing, but they didn't. They just said, this is what we think you should list it for.

[David Green]

So they wanted to get that listing agreement signed, but they didn't give you any kind of presentation. They didn't go over the competition. They didn't. They didn't show their work. They just gave you the math answer. This is the price.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[David Green]

Okay. Oh, this is one of the things that drives me nuts about our industry. But I believe it. I just wanted everyone to hear. When you take those shortcuts, when you cut those corners, because it's easier for you. This might be what that other person is going through. And I still think even as you're talking, you're trying to be nice and not hurt anyone's feelings. I think it was way, way worse. Because I remember you were in my Real Estate Mastermind, where we learned how to invest in real estate. And you brought up. I am like, this is like, ruining my life. I can't. I'm stressed out. I'm living with my parents. I don't want to be here. I have no money for anything. I'm basically eating beans out of a can. I feel guilty anytime I try to spend money for anything. I gotta sell the house. And what was holding you back? I think, was that the ultimate price that you had to sell for, was it less than what you owed on it?

[Angela]

No.

[David Green]

Okay. It was just such a haircut on. It was such a loss you had to take. Right.

[Angela]

Yeah. And one thing I didn't mention earlier is the house that I sold in the 1031 exchange. That was actually what was harder because I put a hundred thousand dollars down on this house in the 1031 exchange. And that house that I sold was. I put blood, sweat, and tears into. And I no longer live in Salt Lake City, but I spent a very long. I spent many, many years there and had some. That house meant a lot to me. So it was hard. It wasn't the house in Texas. It was that I was kicking myself that I sold this other house. That meant a lot to me. And I bought this other house. And now I'm losing both this beach house in Texas and also that equity that I had in the other house. And it was just.

[David Green]

Yeah, because you had done so well in Utah, and then you rolled the profits over to this house. So losing money on this house to you felt like I just lost all of the hard Work I did on my Utah house that I did good on. And you felt like a failure.

[Angela]

Yeah, I mean, I had a hundred thou. I had forced appreciation a hundred thousand dollars in a year on that house that I sold. And it was the second property I had ever bought. There's a lot. I won't go into it, but there was so much meaning into this house. And so it wasn't the house in Texas. It was that. Yes, I just bought. I just sold that house. That.

[David Green]

Right. They were kind of tied together in your mind.

[Angela]

Yeah. And it just. That was the hardest part, but wasn't meant to be.

[David Green]

Okay, so you dropped it to a price that it sold for. How long did it take to get it in contract?

[Angela]

Yeah, so I think once this new agent had it, he. He worked really hard, and he would show me every single week. Hit, hey, I just sold this house. This house came on the market. This. You need to lower your price, whatever it is. How bad do you want to get rid of it? I think I can get rid of it for this price. I think we were probably under contract in about two months of him having it.

[David Green]

All right, so two months in, you go under contract. What's that feel like?

[Angela]

I was holding my breath because I was just like, there's. I. I don't want to get my hopes up. It's been so long. At this point, I'm gonna hold my breath until we actually close on this house. And I don't know if you know this story, but there was a hurricane that came through about a week before we closed and which pushed back the closing, and they had to do another appraisal. I didn't have any damage, but the lender was like, well, we have to get a new appraisal. And I was like, oh, my gosh. If this is what ruins this contract, I'm gonna be so upset. But, yeah.

[David Green]

Yeah, okay. You get it sold, you lose some money. We don't have to go into the specifics of that, but it's enough that it hurt. Once it's closed, do you look back and say, I regret it? I wish I'd kept it longer and tried to get more. I should have wrote out the market. Are you glad you dropped the price to that point? What did you feel like once it's done?

[Angela]

Yeah. So I will. I'm happy to give specifics if you want. I'm past it.

[David Green]

Okay.

[Angela]

But I. But I bought for 375. I had to sell for 325, and I think I got about $6,000 back at the closing table, which was nothing. I lost about over the couple of years that I owned it, about $200,000, all said and done.

[David Green]

Okay.

[Angela]

But to answer your question, the day that I got rid of that property was. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted. Also, I forgot to mention I did have a creative financing offer that my agent encouraged me not to take. So even though I could have gotten rid of the kind of sort of gotten rid of the property, he did encourage me not to take it.

[David Green]

This was the third agent. Wow. So your agent actually said, don't sell it like this. Did he give you rationale for why?

[Angela]

Yeah, there was no. There was. The person that was going to buy it had no skin in the game, so they weren't putting very much down. There wasn't interest on what they were going to be paying me. He's like, I know you want to get rid of this, but I know you want to get rid of it. I know you don't want to have it kind of still lurking in the shadows.

[David Green]

You might have to take it back if they don't make your payments.

[Angela]

Yeah. He was like, this is not. This is not a good deal. He's like, I know you're desperate, but this is not it.

[David Green]

Shout out to third Realtor. Hashtag third Realtor. This guy crushed it. Way to go, guy. You know, we need to get him in touch with the one brokerage. Now that I mentioned it, let's see if we can start helping him sell real estate. He can do his loans with the one brokerage. And also, I think that you are probably eliciting screams and tears from all of the creative financing listeners right now. What? Why would you. That's what agents always do. They always ruin it. But like you said, it was for a good reason. You want to be done with it. You don't want to be like, well, let's. Because what I would imagine I'd be thinking is if I sell it to someone on creative finance and they have no skin in the game, I couldn't make it work. What makes me think they're going to make it work? It's probably some newbie who doesn't know how to run numbers, who took a course, who just shotgunned offers to all the houses in Crystal beach and was like, hey, let me just try my hand at this. I got no skin in the game, so if it doesn't work out, what does it matter to me? And that's just another example of when we think of this from our own Perspective. We don't think about the pain on the other end, the people that are paying so that we could do accomplish our dreams. Whether that was your buyer's agent who just wanted a commission, or it's the creative financing buyer who just wants to get into real estate and they have no money. There's other human beings involved in this thing, and you rarely get to hear the story from their perspective. So houses sold, it's over. How do you feel now?

[Angela]

I feel a lot better. And I wish somebody said to me during the whole process, when I was contemplating dropping the price below what I sold it for, what I bought it for. They said, are you going to look back in 10 years and wish you would have held onto it? I was like, no, I have no ties to this house at all. So the day it closed, I drank some whiskey and I celebrated. And it was. Yeah, I felt like a big weight had been lifted. And I wish I would have gone with this agent from the beginning, but I am so thankful and grateful that he waited in the shadows and he wasn't mad at me that I didn't go with him the first time. And.

[David Green]

Yeah, okay, so if. If the agents listening want to come across like the agent that you enjoyed and you liked and got the job done, what would you recommend that they do when they come across someone like you?

[Angela]

I think that agents get stuck into a box of what they're. What they specialize in. I don't know if specialize is the right word, but I think the biggest thing is listening to your clients. Whereas every client is not going to be the same. Some people. Some people might be able to accept a creative financing offer. I didn't have an option because I did need to get rid of this house. I didn't want to have it hanging over my head. It can work. But also, I don't care that you're putting your face on marketing. That's great. And if that works for you, there's nothing wrong with it. But it wasn't selling my house. I also, for the 10th time, did not have money to put into interior design. So not every buyer or not every seller is going to be in this cookie cutter box. And maybe some of them are, But I think agents really need. Could do a better job of listening to their client. Do they want it? Are they okay with it sitting on the market for two years? Because they don't want to lower the price, and they don't. It's not a big deal for them with their carrying costs, even though they're not making money, that's fine. But for me, that wasn't okay. And the agent that actually sold it knew that. Let's get rid of this thing. Let's drop it as low as we can, and let's get rid of it. So I think the biggest thing is listening to your clients and what their specific needs are instead of just sticking to, okay, I'm going to put my face on all of the marketing for it, or I'm just going to put it. I'm just going to list it and see what happens. That's also drives me nuts, but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

[David Green]

Well, next week, we're going to be doing another episode, and we're going to go down several of those rabbit holes. So Angela and I are going to do another podcast and we're going to talk about all of the mistakes. Mistakes, the questions, the things that come up with houses that I'm selling in different states where I currently don't have a real estate license. So we have to use other agents. And we're going to talk about the dilemmas that arise and what I'm telling Angela that she needs to tell them so that those agents know how to sell a house. Because as odd as this is going to sound, I don't think anyone doesn't like real estate agents as much as me, and I am one. It is very frustrating when you need an agent to sell a house. Now, I'm saying this to broaden perspective, because most agents listening, what they're used to is showing up at the office or showing up at a conference and saying, here's all the way, that the buyers suck. But there's not a lot of accountability that gets brought in where someone says to the same agents, hey, you could have done this different. You could have done that. I mean, they didn't even run a cma. And these are the same agents that show up to the bar drinking because they're so stressed out because their client yelled at them. And we hear that and go, oh, people are crazy. Not all the time. Sometimes people are acting very rational, and that's how anybody would act if they were in those shoes. So if you want to learn more about what it looks like to sell a house from the client's perspective, make sure you listen next week when Angela and I get into eight problems that happened. And one good thing that happened as well, when selling properties in my own portfolio. Thanks for listening, everybody. Remember, today's show is sponsored by the one brokerage. If you would like to finance real estate. If you want an honest loan offer officer. If you want to work at a brokerage where we have more loan products than anyone else that you're going to find, we are hiring loan officers. So agent, please let the loan officers that you know know about the one brokerage. I want to talk to them myself, have them send me a DM on Instagram, connect them to me via email, give them the show to listen to. Because the more products that they have to offer your clients and the better rates that they can get, the easier your job becomes. Also, if you're an agent, you're selling houses. We want to help finance your clients real estate as well. So check out the one brokerage.com or DM me on Instagram and I will connect you with a loan officer myself. Angela, thanks for being here. If people have a cabin in the Smoky Mountains and they're looking for someone to help manage it, where would you recommend they go?

[Angela]

You can email us at infoasttocoast getaways or you can follow us on Instagram @CTC getaways. I would love to take a look at their properties. I love the Smokies so much and there's so many amazing cabins out there and we've had a lot of fun managing cabins out there.

[David Green]

So yeah, that's exactly right. CTC Getaways on Instagram. Give us a follow. All right everybody, we appreciate you real talkers. We will be here next week, same bat time, same bat channel.

[Angela]

SA.