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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate, the show where we cover how to build wealth in real estate with no fluff, no BS, and no sales pitches. I'm David Green and I've been doing this for over 10 years. I've seen the ups, the downs, and everything in between. This is the show where we pull back the curtain and show it to you too. So if you want to build wealth through real estate or you just love learning about it, you found your home. What's going on, everyone? This is Real Talk Realtor. I'm David Green, your host, and I'm here with Joseph Hamer. And we're talking about how a Realtor in their first year of full time production has absolutely crushed it. Tons of confidence, tons of integrity, and tons of good results. So hopefully you can emulate those results. Joseph, welcome to the show.
- [00:41]
B
Hey, thank you so much for having me, David. It's good to be here.
- [00:44]
A
Yeah, it's my pleasure, man. So you and I met in Wichita, Kansas at a meetup and I got to know you a little bit and you told me your story and you're absolutely crushing it. So why don't we just start since you don't have that long of a career with what you were doing and then when you got into real estate and how it's been going.
- [01:02]
B
Sure. So went to school to become a teacher and fell in love with teaching. I think if I never left the classroom, I'd likely still be there. But started investing. In 2019, my wife and I bought our first house, tore out the kitchen, realized, what the hell are we doing? And then, yeah, obviously two years later, we sold it. It went really well, and that kind of kickstart for us. So over the next five years, I got, you know, just head over heels with real estate and investing. I started a local meetup here, not the one that we actually met at. I host one called Pythons and Properties. And I started that because actually, back when you were on the Bigger Pockets podcast, I there was a guest that said basically, if you can't make a meetup, start a meetup. And our biggest meetup was a lunch, like the third Wednesday. And obviously I was serving kids lunches. I could not leave school to make it. So anyways, yeah, long story short, fell in love with investing, fell in love with flips and medium term rentals. And then just about 12 months ago, I left the public school. I was an assistant principal and became full time in real estate after having my license for just about three months.
- [02:22]
A
Okay. How did you have the guts to make that jump from what's actually a pretty good job assistant principle, like within the educational sphere, you're getting pretty close to the apex of where you can go. And it's probably not great money compared to what you can make in New York. But for the area you're in, that's steady income, you probably had some form of retirement or pension. You got your benefits and you're making decent coin. What made you want to become a full time entrepreneur?
- [02:49]
B
Well, when you say it like that, David, did I just change your mind? No. You know, obviously all of those things are in my head. Of course, insurance being the biggest thing too, safety. My wife and I went to Patagonia for 10 days and I got paid the same amount of money. Right. So all of that was going through my head. But I also didn't love my new job as an assistant principal. I'd done it for a couple years, put on a ton of weight, just constantly stressed. It wasn't fueling me. You know, I, I love the people I work with. I love serving kids still. But my day to day task, it didn't bring me joy. And I brought a lot of joy talking with people about real estate. If you talked to me about education, I probably would have changed the topic, but you talked to me about real estate, you're going to wish you didn't anyway, so that, that was kind of it. You know, my wife and I, we don't have kids and we sat down, had a conversation one night about, you know, what this looks like, and we had the decision that because I'm kind of the one investing and managing our rentals, it makes sense for me to try and, to go into real estate. And literally the next morning after that conversation, my realtor that I've used like 10 to 12 times, text me that very next morning, ready to join the team. And from there it's just like, yeah, this is too perfect.
- [04:09]
A
I mean, I love that. Let me take a second to highlight a couple things you said before we get back into your story here. I mean, maybe the most impressive thing in that whole diatribe was not, this is the CRM we use. This is the lead source, this is the system, this is the broker. It was, I was not passionate about what I was doing and I wanted to get into real estate like you mentioned. Hey, if you talk to me about education, I might change the subject pretty quick. But you talked to me about real estate, I'm gonna talk about it forever. I had that passion. I still do to a degree. I Think for me, it's mo, probably more into spiritual matters and people's relationships with God, like, because I know exactly what you're talking about. Real estate's still interesting to me, but not nearly as much as that is. And when you're in that place in life, it could just be hell, right? Like you mentioned, I think that you said you were overweight, probably a result of just not liking your life. So now you're eating to medicate yourself because you feel this call to do something else and you're avoiding it, which most of us avoided out of fear. Was that your case or was it like a lack of confidence, you think?
- [05:09]
B
Yeah, I think ultimately, you know, an assistant principal, nobody comes to you on their best day, right? You get kids when they mess up. You get teachers when they're unhappy. You get parents when they're upset over something. Very rarely does someone come in and they're like, man, today was awesome. I just want to let you know it does happen, but it, you know, wasn't the majority of the job at hand. And, yeah, I just, you know, there's always snacks in the school, right? Donuts, cupcakes, cookies, chocolate. And before I have to call this parent or this teacher or whatever, have that tough, tough conversation, whatever, you know, oh, man, you're.
- [05:44]
A
I mean, you got my wheels turning right now so much of, like, I've noticed I eat the healthiest and I do the best when I have a mission. Like when I was training for the police academy, when I was trying to get a position as a police officer, when I was playing a sport. When you're, let's say you're like in CrossFit, you know, you have a competition coming up or you're training for a marathon, it's easy to say no to soda or easier. But when you just don't have a purpose, you got nothing that you're looking forward to and you're just trying to get through the day. You're looking four to five o' clock, basically. You do look for those little things to numb yourself and get yourself through it. When you don't have purpose. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone talk about this, but this might be one of the things that people listening need to consider. If you're struggling with real estate, maybe you don't like it. And if you're half in real estate, but half in something else because of fear, you might be holding yourself back by not jumping all into it. So what happened when you actually made the jump? Did you Just tell your job one day like, hey, I'm not coming in tomorrow or what was that like?
- [06:43]
B
No. And honestly. So I got my license in March. I intended on being an assistant principal for at least another year, maybe two. And then I got three listings, like right away. And I quickly realized I can't be great at both of these things. And I never half ass anything. You know, the way people view me is important to me. And that is a good thing for me. It drives me to always do my best. And so I had to make the decision then, right? I'm either going to be part time in this or part time in that. And I certainly don't want to be a disservice to my teachers and the families that I'm serving. And on the same hand, I don't want to be a disservice to these people that are going through the biggest transaction of their lives. So again, I just, I looked back to what do I really, really enjoy? What am I passionate about? What do I want to chase right now? And yeah, it was scary as hell, you know, um, but it's been the best thing for me. And to touch on the food aspect, at first I was blaming my job, you know, when I realized I put on £40 over the two years, I thought, God, this job, it's so stressful. What's changed for me is I think I realized I now have the capacity to prioritize eating right, working out, running. I've been running a ton of. I don't think it was necessarily the job, but it wasn't the right job for me. So I didn't have the capacity to really think through and prioritize my health.
- [08:09]
A
Yeah, well, you also didn't have the motivation to do it until you get into this world of real estate where it's brutal. If you're not in a good mood, if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, if you're in a fog, man, that lead generation or those appointments are so terrible. Those conversations with other agents when you know they're going to be difficult, you really want to be at your best, like overloaded with positivity and ambition to get through what you have. And when you're in that state of like, man, I'm just kind of apathetic. It's so hard to have conversations versus, you just took two listings, you're closing on a house tomorrow, and you got buyers that are considering writing an offer. You want to talk to everyone about real estate. You're at the gym, you're in line somewhere, like you're at the gas station and you're just like, man, I bet I could talk to this guy about if he should buy a house right now. And that becomes infectious. I've said for years, as a realtor especially, you really got to protect your emotional state. You have to be at your best. And if that's waking up with a run, waking up with the gym session, healthy food, a phone call that gets you going, your favorite song, whatever it is, you really got to be there if you want to succeed at this. Because nobody wants the grumpy, mopey Eeyore of a real estate agent.
- [09:20]
B
Yeah, and I think that's easier to do when you have multiple deals on your plate as well. You know, I think realtors are at their worst when they have one pending transaction or one listing because the food on their table depends on it. You know, I think it's easier. And that was my first, whatever, six months. I was closing one deal a month. But that deal was like the most important thing to me. And so it's easy to like ride every high and every low instead of really, like you said, protecting that mental state.
- [09:50]
A
Right. Now tell me, like, how many houses did you sell in your first year.
- [09:56]
B
Last year? So from July to December, I sold 1.7 million, which was again, I was, I was super pumped with this year. Up from so January to today's June 20, I've sold 19 homes, 4.2 million so far this year.
- [10:16]
A
So that's probably over a 12 month span. What would you say around like 30 homes or so?
- [10:21]
B
Yeah, I'd say approaching.
- [10:23]
A
Yeah, that's like a really, really good number. Especially most realtors in their first year. I don't think they sell anything. So let's start with how the heck you got three listings as a brand new agent, just licensed, still a principal in a school.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah, I don't think it has much to do with those first three months as it has to do with talking about real estate since 2019. I. I'm all in right when I do things. And so, man, when I, when I started investing in real estate, like I said, I started talking about it. I was reading about it, I set up meetups. Of course, I'm sharing those online. So people really did think Joseph real estate. Right. Maybe Joseph an assistant principal or Joseph school, but definitely also Joseph in real estate. So that transition was really natural. It wasn't a shock, like, oh, now he's trying real estate. And so I think that was supernatural and it was part Sphere. Actually, it's one sphere, one investor and one expired listing. Just to show you, you know, I was like, all right, spokes on a wheel. I gotta hammer everything I can hard. I gotta try everything to figure out what's gonna work for me. And yeah, I, like I said, I, I can't sit still. And that's a great thing when you become a realtor.
- [11:39]
A
Oh, yeah, for sure. In fact, if you had to, like, like I've said this before, if I had to reverse engineer the perfect real estate agent in a lab, it wouldn't be the smartest person. It wouldn't be the person that makes the least mistakes. They might not even need to know, like how to fill out a freaking form. It would be the human that has a motor that doesn't stop. And they're very extroverted. You just have to talk all the time and you got to be positive your phone's going to be ringing. You never know when that person that called to ask about Wichita real estate or where the market's going or what the Fed's going to do or what this new regulation that everyone's talking about is going to be. Those conversations, though, they don't often lead immediately to a listing appointment or showing of homes. They're a form of lead generation where that you align yourself in their head, where they go, I like him, I'm using that guy. When the time comes and you just, you think about that person, six months later that becomes a client, or three months later they tell their neighbor who wants to sell their house about this conversation they had with you and they give them your number and that becomes a phone call. What are some things that you do to make sure when you get that call, you leave a great impression with the person that called?
- [12:49]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, coming from a place of education and service, one, I'm very used to talking to all sorts of people before. I know you're super big into this too. I was a server for, well, I worked at a restaurant for seven years before actually while I was teaching even. So I, I'm just used to talking to people from all sorts of life and all sorts of frustrations. Right. And usually there's some pretty strong emotions are tied to whichever way the discussion goes in terms of real estate. And so I think again, success comes from all of the hard work that you put in well beforehand. Right. I'm counting on the, the way I'm working hard today is my success way down the future. Right. My success or my hard work today is not My success today. But yeah, so I mean, when someone calls, I, I want to listen, right? I want to, I want to restate what they're saying to make sure I understand. I don't need to provide a clear path or a clear solution right away. I need to make sure they, that I understand what they need and they know I understand what they need. From there, there's systems and processes to take care of the rest, right? It's that, that first impression is just making sure that I'm not assuming something that they need. And then, yeah, the rest is like I said, systems and processes.
- [14:08]
A
All right, so I like what you said there with I don't want to close you when I talk to you. I want to leave a good impression. Maybe you've never thought about this. This is like what my life is like is people say, how'd you do it? And I'm like, man, I got a podcast. I have to think about how to articulate what I do on a phone call because you just, you screw it up. You screw it up and then you have one that goes good. Then you have a couple more that goes good and you're like, oh, do more of that. That's what worked. But it's hard to sometimes get it out there for people to hear. So if you get a phone call from someone who's like, hey, someone was at a meetup, they told me about you. I just had some questions about if this is a good market to invest in. Can you give us a rough idea of how much time you're spending on the phone with them, how you're guiding that conversation and what type of information you're going to be sharing?
- [14:51]
B
Yeah, I probably share way too much information in general. I, I came from education, right? If you want to learn, I'm going to freaking teach you. But no, I think when someone calls, you know the first thing. Again, I need to learn their goals, right? Especially when it comes to investing. I had abstate investor just reach out to me this last week wanting to buy some really cheap homes in Wichita. And I needed to clarify, you know, are you, are you purchasing this just for cash flow? Are you looking to do that Burr method? Are you looking for equity? Are you looking for the tax benefits? Like, because purchasing these really cheap homes in Wichita come with their fair share of problems and I need to make sure that you're not just seeing a price tag and thinking like, oh, this is a killer deal again, from there, you know, I need to make sure they're pre qualified and just kind of go through these things, but not in, like, 12 questions that I ask them. Just very conversational, making sure I get a good feel of where their head's at, their track record, what they're looking to do moving forward. And sometimes I tell them it's not right for me.
- [15:56]
A
That's really good. I like that you're. You're not trying to close them, you're giving them information, but you're also feeling them out. Because if they have unrealistic expectations, not only is this bad for you, it's bad for them, it's bad for everybody. Because as a realtor, you don't get paid unless there's a closing. And a lot of realtors don't think about that, that every day you don't sell a house. You had to pay your brokerage something. You had to pay licensing fees, you had to pay MLS fees, you had to pay CRM fees, you had to pay software fees. You had to pay for the whatever system your realtor organization uses to unlock the doors that you want to get into. You're always losing money. And so if you go say, hey, I'll find you that deal that, you know isn't very likely to be found, you're putting yourself in a position where you're going to waste your gas, waste your time, and waste your money when you could have put that towards better conversations. Was that something you just walked into this naturally understanding, I gotta read them to self, they're the right client? Or did you have to learn that the hard way?
- [16:52]
B
No, I'd say at first, I probably would have taken anything, right? I mean, you're just hung. You're just hungry. I would say even this year, I had a bad gut feeling about a lead that came my way. I ended up taking it. And then two days before closing, it all fell apart, largely because of the situation at hand. But it was a. It was a good moment for me to say, kind of like, man, at the very, very beginning, when you got this lead, you knew that you probably shouldn't have taken it. You didn't listen to that. You put in a lot of money into this marketing. I was paying the mow, the yard, I was doing, you know, all this stuff, and then, boom, you don't get paid. So, yeah, I think at the beginning, I would have taken anything but time. Time is wisdom, I guess.
- [17:40]
A
It seems like you learn your lessons pretty quick. You're not the stubborn person that just keeps trying something that doesn't work. Is that a thing that is natural to you or did you pick this up along all the different jobs you've had?
- [17:52]
B
I would say my biggest. Maybe not my biggest, but a strength and a weakness of mine is I feel confident taking the next best step, and if it's progress, phenomenal, you know, I got there faster. And if it was the wrong step, I'm not afraid to apologize and learn and. And then take the next best step after that. Right. I've never been one to be really hesitant and scared to make a decision and move forward, and I think that's, again, beneficial here. I've wasted money in marketing. I've wasted money doing, you know, all sorts of things. I. I saw something attractive, I wanted to try it. But again, yeah, you learn and you move on. And I think any successful business or entrepreneur has to do that.
- [18:36]
A
Yeah, you gotta be flexible in this business. In my book Skill that I wrote for Realtors, I think the first chapter, the first part of it, is about copying top producer characteristics. So I studied the top producers that were in my office, that were at all the events that I went to. When you're a top producer, you get invited to all the who's who of people, and so you get to be around them. And, I mean, if I'm being completely transparent, I typically didn't like most of the realtors. They're tough people for someone like me to get along with. I think it's probably similar to you because you're a straightforward guy and there's a lot of pomp and circumstance in that world. But the plus side was I got to see how they acted, and there was definitely patterns that showed up. They carried themselves professionally, they modeled what they saw other people doing, they treated their business like a business, and they treated themselves like a brand. Every conversation they had was very polished. It wasn't like they just, you know, could turn it on in an instant. Everywhere they went, they kind of presented themselves in a way because they wanted me to have a good impression of them so that I would send them referrals. And every conversation, you don't know what that's going to turn into. They just kind of mastered that. It seems like you've slipped into that pretty well. So, like, I have a feeling that that has a lot to do with it. As people listen to this podcast, you should take notes there. There's something about people that carry themselves with integrity, that have a good reputation, that tend to take off in the business. Those first three listings you got, were those from your circle of influence? Were these from co workers that you had? Were they like just random people that knew you bought real estate.
- [20:09]
B
All different. One was a teacher that I used to work with. Actually the first school that I ever taught at, she had reached out. One was a for sale by owner that was failing and I was confident that I could find an investor for them. And then the third one, oh, it was an investor ready to sell rental property. And so, yeah, all three different strategies. And at that time, my wheel or the spokes on my wheel were spread pretty thin. You know, I was new, I wanted to try everything. I wanted to make sure I was spread out in terms of my marketing. And it has changed since then. But I also think if I didn't do that, I wouldn't have had success early on.
- [20:53]
A
Yeah, it's a great point. Something else that stood out as a new person. You said you joined a team. No pressure because we didn't talk about this beforehand. If you don't want to share details, because that makes sense. But for what you feel comfortable with, can you share what the splits are like, what led you to that team and maybe how you guys are organized and operating? And if you think that put you in a position where you'd be more likely to be successful.
- [21:18]
B
Yeah, 100%, man. Even, even teachers have coaches in a building, right? And so, man, anytime you're switching careers or new at something, I believe in needing education. And I could pay for a bunch of classes at the Krek building here, or I could join the team of a realtor that I looked up to. Right. People always talked bad about their realtor, their experience with a realtor. And I always referred my realtor because I was like, oh my gosh, I had the best experience. Right. And so just naturally I felt like I can either try this by myself or I can try this with a team of guys. We're a team of four and all of us are either current or former educators. So we have that kind of in common. But then, yeah, Reese Nichols here in Wichita, Kansas, again has a reputation, a brand for full service and just a relationship based model. Right? We take care of our people. Our people come back to us. Here at Rhys Nichols, we're not the cheapest, right? We're full service. We're proud of the value that we give. And so that also aligned with me. I'm going to give 100 no matter what. I might as well be with a brokerage that kind of aligns with that when it comes to splits and things. Because it's a franchise, there's a franchise fee, there's Some that goes to the brokerage and then a small portion goes to our team. But man, I've ran numbers a lot between this brokerage, other brokerages, and I feel like the value that I get for paying that in. Of course, everybody wants to keep as much money as possible. Right? But the value that I get for paying that in both to the team and the brokerage far outweighs that, that money that goes towards it.
- [23:01]
A
So to you it was the coaching component. It sounds like that's what you were looking forward to the most.
- [23:06]
B
Yeah, our team meets weekly. We share what, what's going on, what's going on in the market, strategies for marketing. And that's, that's just our team. You know, we have a pretty active office as well with high producers, and so I get to go and interact. And being in the office too, has had other realtors who are high producers know that I work a lot with investors and bring me an investor deal just because they know that's my wheelhouse. And so that overall environment of hey, I'm gonna kick ass and I want you to kick ass today too, was attractive to me.
- [23:40]
A
So how did you learn how to work with investors? Is that because you were investor yourself or is this a knack that you had 100%?
- [23:48]
B
Just the background of investing, you know, analyzing countless, countless deals. That's just what I do when I walk a property. I'm looking for what's going to cost money. I'm looking, you know, it's just my mindset. I know you talk about the disc profile. When I was in school, in my school, we did a strength finders test and there was like 54 strengths. Empathy was my 54th strength. So I'm not like, oh my gosh, look at this crown mold. You know, that's just not who I am. And I'm always upfront with people too, right? Like, hey, when, when I open up the door, I'm going to go turn lights on. I want you to enjoy the house and I'm going to catch up with you. I'm not someone that's going to oversell a house and point things out. And so I think naturally, analyzing numbers, looking at, you know, the appreciation, the comps, the pros and cons of an actual house. People are pretty good about putting their own emotion and their feelings into a house anyways. And so, yeah, naturally that goes well for sellers and for investors.
- [24:50]
A
That makes sense. So it was a skill that you had beforehand. Do you think that every agent should own a rental or two or do you think that there's some that need to stay out of it and just focus on the clients?
- [25:00]
B
Yeah, I don't think every agent needs to own a rental if they're making money and they need to park it somewhere. I think rentals are a great strategy. You know, obviously there's REITs and other ways to put your money into real estate without you being an owner or manager. I'm obviously a big believer in owning rentals, but I certainly think there's to overcast like all realtors should own a rental. I don't think so.
- [25:24]
A
You made a good point too, when it comes to the fact that if you're making good money, rentals can be a good place to put it. Not just because you can make money in real estate, but there's a tax savings that is available to you when you're a real estate professional, which you are if you're a real estate agent working full time, that isn't if you're just like a doctor or a lawyer, someone that's not involved in real estate unless you find like a short term rental loophole or something that many agents don't know of. Are you familiar with that? Like, do you want to kind of like get into how you're able to shelter some of the money that you make by buying real estate?
- [25:55]
B
Sure, yeah. I mean, first of all, I mean, normal disclosure, not a CPA or anything. In fact, I just switched CPAs this year because of some frustrations. But yeah, I mean, just, just through again, education and podcasts and books. You know, being a real estate professional, you're able to really use the depreciation from your properties to also count against the income that you're making. And so we just bought a rental earlier this year. We did some remodeling to it and I'm getting ready to talk to my CPA about doing a cost segregation study so that I can end up using that accelerated depreciation to go against the income that I've made this year just to help offset some of those taxes. And again, you know, a lot of people that maybe aren't a realtor don't realize the amount of taxes you're paying on the dollars that you make as well. And so just just being able to own a property and get multiple streams of revenue from it, whether it's through savings or through income.
- [26:58]
A
It's a good point. I have a really good CPA now. I've had to go through, lord knows a lot of frogs had to be kissed before I got the Guy I have now. So somebody out there is listening to this and you want a good cpa, definitely message me. You can do it at the website davidgreen24.com just use the chat feature and I'll put you in touch with them. And then if anything goes wrong with yours, Joseph, I'm happy to share that, too. A CPA is like one person that a real estate investor is willing to share. They're not going to share their contractor. There's other people that they're going to be hesitant. Like, I don't want to tell you the person that's really hard to get. But if you. If you find someone that's willing to share their cpa, usually they're not going to be as protective over that. So in the mark, can I. Yeah.
- [27:39]
B
Can I ask what does your CPA do, right. That you were looking for and the CPAs that you let go?
- [27:45]
A
He. Okay, so the other ones were doing bare minimum. And I would have to bring an idea to them and say, can we do this? And they'd be like, that's a great idea. And that. That is like one of the things that drives me nuts. I don't want to have to tell my realtor, hey, have you tried doing this? And they go, no, I haven't. But that would probably work because I'm paying them. I want the professional I hire to bring me the ideas and say, I'd like to do this. Here's the up, here's the down, here's the plus, here's the minus. It's your decision, but I'm going to spell it out for you. What most humans do when they get a job is the same thing that they did last time. We just fall into routines way too much. And so I'd have CPAs that were not asking me questions about what my world was like, what problems that I needed to solve. They were just charging me a lot of money to essentially put taxes together and make like, entities to put properties in. Another issue is I don't like because you mentioned the disc profile, I'm high D. I like to be able to ask you questions to figure out what I need to know. I don't want to sit through a presentation of stuff I already know that will drive me nuts. And they all do this. They sit there and they explain stuff to you without asking if it's already, like, something you're aware of or not. I try to. In my mind, that's respectful to ask somebody, hey, do you know how this works? Because I don't want to waste your time telling you if you do, but I don't want to assume you do and now confuse you by not telling you. So that's another thing. But they use industry specific terms like that. No one knows what that means unless you are a cpa. And they, you have to then ask and try to get them to explain it in English, which can be very hard for accountants to do. You got to ask four times. You clearly don't understand. And they're fine with that. They just want to move on with, with what they're doing. And like the last piece would probably be they, a lot of the time they'll, they'll like hook you and then they'll pass you off to some employee they have that's not very skilled. And now you're stuck with this contract you have with an employee that's not very skilled. The guy that I have now will answer his phone, he will call you back. He might only have seven minutes to talk to you, but he's one of those people that's like his whole day is just full of phone calls. He's squeezing every bit of productivity that he can out of what he's doing. He will tell you, no, we can't do it. Yes we can. Or let me get back to you, I will find out about that. And he is much more aggressive at telling me, here's what I want to do, here's what you should do. How does that sound? Well, what about A, B and C? Great question. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. This is why I want to do it. And I've seen him adjust his communication to other people that aren't like me. So he just, it's kind of like the quality of human really. And it's, I feel it's very similar with picking the right real estate agent. There's not a secret sauce to how you become a top producer. You just be a better person. You make people feel like you can, they can trust you. You don't oversell them when they don't want to be sold. And you also aren't afraid to put it out there and be like, I think you're making a mistake if you don't write an offer on this house, even if it's over asking price, if it's such a, a great deal. And I don't think in real estate we put enough focus on the personal development and the human component. We, we talk more about what you could sell people on, which is software, systems, approaches, whatever the case would be, because you can make more money doing that. And it's difficult to accept that you're the problem. But when you think about who you pick to be your realtor, what podcast you choose to listen to, you don't care what recording equipment they use or what their marketing plan is. You're just like, do I like listening to this person? Do I trust them? Do I think they're a good person? And it can be that simple sometimes. Which is, when I. When I met you, I got that same vibe, like, yeah, this is a guy that I could send referrals to. He's going to work really hard, and if he can't do it, he's going to tell him, no, I'm not going to do it. We really probably only need 30 of the realtors we have out there. If everybody acted that way.
- [31:30]
B
Yeah. Or less.
- [31:32]
A
Or less. Yeah. There's just too many, honestly. And, yeah, that's a whole other topic we don't have to get into. Here is something I do want to ask you, though. I have seen that there's been a big growth of teams. Teams were not a thing. Like a decade ago, they became a thing. And in my head, I see this associated with the change in the way brokers operate. So I'm going to give you kind of the perspective that I've seen that I'm going to ask for your feedback if you think I'm right, if you think I'm wrong, or if you think I'm missing something. Brokers used to function more like mentors. So you joined a brokerage and they taught you how to be a producer because they were a producer. So this model was like, you get your broker's license or you sell a lot of houses, you have too many leads, you don't know what to do with them. An agent comes in and works underneath you in your brokerage. You oversee them and you kick them the excess business you have, as well as the things they need to do that you don't want to. You let them hold your open houses. You let them work on your marketing. You kind of let them maybe go show homes or open doors or put science in the yard, all the little things that as an agent, you'd never get a chance to learn unless you had a lot of business. You kind of got the cheat code by absorbing what the broker had, but the broker got a big, healthy cut of what you did because they were responsible for helping you. Sometime around 10 years ago, it seems like to me, brokerage has shifted from, I'm an owner operator. I'M doing this and I'm teaching you into. I have a brokerage license, and I'm going to bring marketing. I'm going to bring my business degree. I'm going to copy what other industries are doing and try to grow something huge. I'm going to create a body shop. And in order to get as many people in as I can, I got to offer lower commissions. And we got into this race to the bottom. The splits became lower, lower. Then we introduced caps. Your commission gets capped at a certain point. Then we started introduced perks on top of that. Not only are you at a cab, but we're going to give you this and we're going to give you that. I mean, the last guy that tried to pitch me was at the point where he said, we give our agents free car washes. They're throwing perks at agents, but what they're not throwing is training and mentorship and practical stuff. So now the team has to kind of step in to fill that role. And now the agents are giving a cut to the brokerage, a cut to the team, a cut to everybody else. And almost every agent feels like they're paying too much money and they feel like they're not getting enough value. You seem to be comfortable and content with where you're at. Can you just take a minute to share with me why your setup works and what you think the ideal setup should be?
- [34:02]
B
You know, I think it's going to be different for every agent. There's different personality types. Right? There's. There's definitely people that want to run on their own and don't want to have to talk to anybody except for the agent on the other side. And probably they don't even want to talk to that agent. I, on the other hand, found great value within our team. And someone had talked about. Another high producing agent had talked about how our team is structured. They asked, like, does someone handle buyers and someone handle sellers? And that's, that's not really how our team functions. Our, our team is very. I don't want to say silos, but maybe silos on the same farm. Right. Like, we're always communicating, but we all have our own sphere of influence. It's nice that our sphere of influence doesn't overlap too much. And more than anything, it's people to lean on, questions to ask, negotiation strategies. You know, all the things that you maybe don't remember when you go to a class and you need that advice right away. I think that's the value that our team has as well. As I've traveled a whole lot the last 30 days and I've had agents open up houses, allow photos to be taken, send contracts for me, close deals, pick up checks. I didn't have to reach out to strangers or try to pay other agents to get that done. So that, that provides a lot of value in terms of the brokerage setting that itself. I, you know, I share that. I, I don't want to say I'm content, but I am happy. I'm, I'm always still looking and analyzing is this brokerage provide more or less than this brokerage? Right. But I'm, I'm very happy where I'm at and I do recognize the amount of money that I'm putting into it. But like I said, you know, there's classes and we have a marketing team and I can. And today I had a new listing. Go live. And Teresa emailed me, hey, do you want to use your normal postcard? I sent a thumbs up. So I have 30 postcards going out. You know, that provides a lot of value. And could I hire someone to do that? Yes. But then I'm also managing them and you know, I want to focus on my people and selling houses and I feel the brokerage that I'm with allows me to do exactly that.
- [36:26]
A
I love that. Now you also bring up a good point. Because when I was a top producing agent, like my story is very similar to yours. Got my degree or sorry, my license while I was working. Another profession. You were a principal. I was in law enforcement. Started selling houses to all the cops. It was like, oh no, I don't have time to do both. There was like a day I was sitting there and I had, I signed listing agreement and three days went by and I still didn't have it on the MLS because I just had really busy days at work where I couldn't, you know, jump on my laptop and put it up. And I felt terrible. And I knew like, I gotta pick one or the other. So I ended up leaving the force and starting and took off. I became the top agent in my office in my first year full time. And it was great, but I did not like production. Like, I loved explaining the process, coming up with a strategy for every house. I loved helping buyers know this is the right house for you based on what you want to do. I loved explaining what we were doing and I liked coming up with a system. I didn't want to have the phone call. I didn't want to tell you, hey, here's the thing. I told you would happen now it happened. And then have to let you have all these emotions, right? Like, oh, yeah, we're so happy. And then 35 minutes later, I've got, like, a stack of missed calls that I couldn't get to. So that was actually frustrating for me. This is odd because everyone thinks I'm crazy. Like, the day of closing where I give you your keys was the worst day for me. I was always like, hey, can you just go give them their keys and give them a gift? Like, this is the gift I want to give them. But I didn't like doing it. It was just, like, awkward for me to watch people cry. I just. I'm not super high. It's the high D. Yes, that's exactly it, right? Like, I was like, let me get you another house. Let me help you make more money. But, like, sitting here and celebrating this with you, it's probably foolish. That was. That's important stuff. You build bonds there. But my personality wasn't wired for that. So I enjoy building a team because I like giving direction. I like putting people in a position to succeed. I could kind of, like, coach all these components instead of just me literally being on the phone for 10 hours in a row and being in a bad mood and burnt out. And, like, now you don't have anything left to give the other people in your life. Because I don't want to talk at all. At the end of the day, I wanted to get out of that. You want to stay in it. You know your lane. You're like, man, I'm a shooter. Give me the ball. I like to score. Like, let me put these people in contract. What advice do you have for the people that are out there that are licensed, that know that they understand real estate, but maybe they're having a hard time finding their lane.
- [38:53]
B
I think it goes back to, man, just get to work, you know, put yourself out there, start having the conversations. You don't. You don't find what lane you belong in by standing on the side of the street, right? You've. You've got to get to work. And I think the more you do that and the more you listen to your. Your intuition is how you end up finding that lane.
- [39:16]
A
That's a good point. Like, I think there's a lot of people that want to be on a team because they like to work in real estate, and they don't mind helping out others. And then, like you said, they know they're going to need help at times. So you have to know if you're going to join a team, you might be opening a door for someone else. You might be helping them out when you thought you were going to have dinner with your girlfriend that night. Nope, you're going to help what they're doing. And if you don't like that, if that's going to put you in a bad mood, you might not be the team person. But if you're like, oh fun, I get to go help Joe. And then like, I know Joe helped me last week, so I don't mind it. The team environment can really make it easier to be a realtor, especially because you have to be able to travel like life happens. You got to be able to leave town. Sometimes I think you just want hiking, right?
- [40:01]
B
Yeah, we've done a ton of trips. We in the last 30 days, we've done Glacier, Yosemite, the Tetons. I just got back from Yosemite and then I ran a 24 hour race. So pretty much every weekend for the last four weekends I've been MIA.
- [40:18]
A
That's a testament to like a team was a good move for you because you can still have phone calls when you're traveling, but you can't be there to literally open the door or you may need a transaction coordinator from the team or to fill out a form and send it for you. That can be huge. I remember when I was like needed to write offers but I was out showing homes just to be able to message my assistant and like here's the information and she sent it to the relief that you had from not having that stacking over your head. It really put you in the headspace that you would go lead, generate to get more deals.
- [40:49]
B
Yeah, I mean during that time, yeah, you know, deals close, new listings came up and obviously, you know, also things went wrong. I had to a deal fall apart and I was standing at a fall in Yellowstone, beautiful fall, happened to get service and I'm talking about 2 inches of water in a basement. You know, like things happen and there's the running joke. You know, realtors on vacation on their phone or emailing and doing all that. But the nice thing about a team is I don't have to do as much as that. Right. I'm having a conversation with my client because at the end of the day the buck stops with me. But I also have a quick call with with my team lead and I, I'm fully confident that he's gonna take care of this and take over when I don't have cell reception too.
- [41:30]
A
Yeah. And sometimes if they save one deal in the year that might be the money that you spent to be on the team or if they, if they got you to be in the headspace that you picked up another two listings, it was well worth paying a split to a team so that you had the capacity to take on more. I love that. I think that there's a lot of elements to real estate that are not. They don't fit the same, like, they don't all fit the same personality. There's the humans that love the people aspect of this. There's the number crunchers, there's the organizational people that are really good with timelines, and then there's the compliance people that know every single rule. There's the tech and the marketing people. And l. Top producers are going to be a little bit better at one of those than others. So why not find people around you that hate the stuff you like and like the stuff you hate to help you?
- [42:15]
B
Yeah. I think again, it goes to maybe a similar analogy to your, your book that the better than cash flow. Right. Like instead of analyzing what's my bottom line? It's not that simple. Right. And if you think it's that simple, it's probably not the right choice for you. And instead taking a look, a deeper look at all the different components of both financial, emotional, spiritual value.
- [42:39]
A
That's super smart. Like we said, if you find yourself an environment with the broker, with coworkers, with the team, whatever that allows you to be at peak operating performance, you will, I 100% guarantee you will make more money. When you're in a good headspace and you enjoy what you're doing and you're optimistic. This is just a brutal industry. When you're depressed and you're negative and you don't want to be doing it. It's a great point. Let's switch the topic here to your local area. Tell me, like, what type of properties somebody can find in Wichita. If they're an investor or if they're thinking about moving, who's the right person that should be looking at your market?
- [43:16]
B
Sure. So the nice thing about Wichita is it's a super insulated market. We have great economics here, very diverse sectors. We're the air capital of the world. Not because we have a great airport, but because of the amount of aerospace that's here. We also have, you know, universities, Koch Industries, a massive health care system. So we just, we're an insulated market, which is nice because it's just a slow and steady market. We don't have the high highs and low lows that I see on the coast. Things take a long time to get to us and usually by the time it does, it's cooled off a bit. So if you're looking for a predictable, you know, as confident as I guess you could say predictable, if you're looking for a steady area, you know, Wichita is the right place. The median home price is like $235,000. So it's affordable. Rent growth is very slow here. If you look at Kansas City, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, all of their rent growths are much faster than Wichita. But Wichita's is just again slow and steady market. And so I guess as an investor, this is a great place for medium term rentals. Obviously long term rentals are hard right now, finding the right cash flow, but in the right areas where supplies constricted, the appreciation is definitely there. That can make it worthwhile in the long term.
- [44:50]
A
Yeah, markets like yours are forgotten about and ignored when the economy is red hot because there's a lot of money changing hands. It's all moving into what I call like, it's not the best descriptor but like a desirable market. Great weather, great money, great amenities. This is where like, you know, all the pretty girls want to go to Miami and hang out on a yacht. All the rich guys want to go and have a yacht because that's where the pretty girls are. Those markets flourish when we're in a increasing economy where there's a lot of money changing hands. California crushes it. New York does really well. Well, when you go into a recession, it's literally the opposite. People are not, they don't have fomo, like, oh man, someone else got something I didn't get. I need to go to Austin where everybody's having fun. They have, they have fear. Fear. Not fear, missing out. Right. So they rush to where there's safety and the Midwest markets like yours, where there's diversified employment, steady jobs. This isn't like the tech industry moved in here and it's red hot. But what happens when AI takes over tech? Ice cold. Everybody's going to be leaving. I think we just, we never let our country go through recessions. We always have a form of stimulus that comes in. So markets like yours never really get their chance. They don't get a chance to shine because we have six months of recession and boom, we print a bunch of money and next thing you know, New York's thriving again and Los Angeles is doing great. But I think people like you and markets like yours are probably the future of where a lot of Americans are going to be moving to because you have a great cost of living. You have more or less like safe environments. And like we saw at the meetup, I love the people out there. They're just genuinely good folks. And when you get a taste of that, it's so nice. Now the downside is your purchase prices are lower. So you got to sell three houses to make the same money that I would have made selling one in California. Have you like learned to adjust to that? Is there a trick you've learned to be able to get more volume without getting burned out?
- [46:49]
B
Yeah, I, I want to do a callback. When you were here, you made a joke that even our homeless are nice. But no, I, you know, and it's true. Wichita's a great, you know, safe community. It's a big city, but it's certainly not right. Contractors find that out really fast. Contractors that start burning people. That gets around the wood shot community pretty quick. But anyways, sorry, we re. What.
- [47:20]
A
Well, what's some tricks that you've learned to maintain a high volume of homes because you got to sell more houses to make a living wage compared to some of the more expensive markets where a realtor can sell six houses for the year and be okay?
- [47:31]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that, that, that's definitely on my plate. We have, you know, million dollar homes, multimillion dollar homes here in Wichita and a lot of those homes are sold by Reese Nichols, which is an attractive reason to have my black and yellow sign in the yard. But where I'm at in my career, I'm not questioning the next three years. I'm going to work for every deal that comes across my plate. I'm also not questioning the 15 years after that are going to be repeat customers who are selling that house and buying their next one. Where I'm at in my career, it's time to hustle. Right. It's of course, you know, I would love, I have, you know, some, some half a million dollar listings. Those are great. They're also harder to sell. In Wichita, I can sell my 100 $200,000 houses. I could sell three of them faster than a $700,000 house and come out with the same money. Is it three times the amount of work? Yep. Am I paying the same amount for my professional photography, videography? Yeah. Right. But at the end of the day, the clientele here in Wichita, if you're, if your home's updated in a nice area and you're under 250, you're likely still going to be Seeing some good offers come through multi offers, even at the other price point, it's, it's a little bit less predictable. You've got to just find the right person and then you're still probably going to sell at asking price. It just takes a little bit longer to find that person in which style to buy that home.
- [49:05]
A
Solid point. All right, last question I have for you. You're listening to this. You're a real estate agent, you love the business, you want to get off the ground and you're just having a hard time picking up some momentum and steam. What advice do you have for those people?
- [49:21]
B
Instead of going a mile wide and an inch deep, flip it right, do the opposite. I, I tried to do everything for sale by owner expired listings. I, I tried to do everything. I hated picking up the phone call and talking to people. I kept hearing that's how you do it. That's how you do it. I got two leads, right? I even got a $750,000 listing that would expire. Mine also expired. You know, I just realized I, I love working with people that I know like and trust my sphere of influence and I love working with investors. So this year I've just doubled down on it, right within that I'm not just posting on social media like oh check out this listing or check out this house. I do use social media to stay top of mind. But I've really expanded what I'm doing. I'm sending, you know, something should come to most of my sphere at least three times a month in the mail. I'm posting things on social media and trying to have Facebook Live classes. Even if three people show up, that tells me who's a warm lead. You know, in my, in my sphere I'm doing giveaways so that my sphere shares my page with their sphere. You know, I'm just double down, like why spend money on farming and, and all these cold leads when you could spend the same amount of money or less and pour it into people that you know like and trust and people that want to work with you. And so for me that would be, my advice is if, if you're a similar personality, don't waste your time cold calling unless you like to do it. Just pour into the people that you love. Make sure that they think of your name and they think of real estate and that time will come.
- [51:03]
A
That is incredible advice. I remember right around the time that David Green team was starting to wind down giving the advice to the agents that you guys need to stop trying to create a post that's going to go viral and have a bunch of people you don't know see it. So they would always make a post like, hey, strangers, I'm so and so and this is what I do. Like, the algorithm doesn't show your stuff to people that don't know you because they don't care. You need to be making a post for the people that are already following you and like you. Your social media posts, your email marketing, the value that you're offering is to your sphere. It's. You're branding yourself to them. And that little shift in thinking that you don't need to start a channel or develop a meetup to get a bunch of strangers that you don't know to somehow trust you to sell their house, you need to do this to people that already know you and just are forgetting about you or some their neighbor is talking to them who's an agent and you want to get in front of them and you want to be top the of of mind. Shift your thinking into that. Make your content and your marketing for people that you already have a good relationship with. And I think that they will see exponentially better returns. That's great advice.
- [52:11]
B
Yeah. And it, it ties really well, I'm guessing. You can probably guess. You know, I spent all my education time in elementary. What do you think most kids want to be when they grow up today?
- [52:21]
A
An influencer.
- [52:23]
B
A YouTuber, right? Yeah, an influencer. And I feel like that's what's happening in our, A lot of our markets. They see some realtor that blew up and they're making rap videos, which I did, you know, regrettably I made one and it did, it did hit, but it was with my sphere of influence just because it was funny. But you know, I use social media to stay top of mind. I don't want to be a content creator. I want to make sure that it's part real estate and part me. Right. I just did a ton of traveling, so you bet my traveling, my dogs, my family, it's going to be in there because I can't get so wrapped up in like getting a lead or making sure people call me that. They forget, you know, who I am and I don't interact with them.
- [53:04]
A
No, that's beautiful. I love that, that subtle shift. And really that's what's, I mean, it's like that's what's honorable. You don't need to make content for people that you don't know. You need to be making content for people that you do. And Strengthening relationships with people that you know will earn you a better return in life than just always trying to meet new people, which, unfortunately, in the last 10 years, that's what every realtor did. It was like, let me buy Zillow leads. Let me buy Redfin leads. Let me talk to people I don't know. And then we have to listen to them complain about how buyers are liars and nobody's loyal. And, like, that's what most real estate offices turn into is. And then you ask, how'd you meet that person? Zillow lead. Right. Like, no, it wasn't even. Like, they met him at an open house. They made a good impression. They were just a stranger. So I. I love it.
- [53:50]
B
Yeah. And one. One other comment, in terms of the. The real estate meetup, you know, I've been doing that for just over two years, and some of my biggest repeat clients when it comes to investors are people that I met there. Right? The. The contractors that I recommend came from there. My insurance agent came from there. But it wasn't week one, it wasn't week two. In fact, week three, I had two people show up, and I was so mortified that I convinced two people to come out to a brewery. And I'm also pretty new. You know, at that time, it was just like, man, I think this was mortifying enough that I'm never going to have a meetup again. And I talked to the. The guy that hosts our massive lunch meet up here, and he's like, man, stick with it. I had eight people for, like, two years, and now we have, you know, 60, 70 people coming to these lunch. And so I stuck with it. And now it's like, yeah, you know, we're. We're 20 to 40 people. And it's people that I literally do business with, and they come to me saying, like, hey, where's the hard money guy here? Or, hey, you know, like, now I can be the guy that just points to people. And that doesn't happen on the first six weeks. That happens now. Two years in, I'm getting to kind of reap some of the rewards of that. And it's genuine relationships that every month for the last two years, we've been having conversations.
- [55:14]
A
That's. That's awesome. The body of wealth is built on a diet of humble pie. It's good for the soul. Joseph, anything that I didn't ask you, but I should have, that we can cover before we let you go.
- [55:28]
B
You know, I can't think of anything, David. I guess on, I. I want to ask you a question, I'm a similar personality style to you, kind of high D. If there was a first year realtor who didn't have our personality style, what would be maybe an avenue that, that they should take in order to have success that they like? Maybe, you know, they, they might not relate to what I just shared. What would be another avenue that you see? Maybe this, this generation of realtors coming up, they need to focus on in order to have success. That isn't something that I shared.
- [56:06]
A
If they're high I, which is the interactive, these are the extroverts, they need to be like, put a database together. It could be very simple. It could even be a spreadsheet. Just everybody in your phone, everyone on your social media and you need to talk to like a certain number of people every day. If you don't have any business, set it at 2020 conversations where you pour into that person. You look for a way to be valuable to them. Not, hey, I'm here, I want to sell a house. More like, what are your goals for the year? What struggles are you having? What do you wish you had in friends that you don't have? And just let other people share their struggles and then you meet that need. Whatever it would be, I would, I would tend to gear them towards doing this. For people that are gainfully employed, it's nice to help the homeless, but they're not going to be bringing you a listing. So if your goal is to make money, you're going to have to be a good person towards people with money and then you can help the homeless for other reasons. If they're a high C, like they're really good with numbers, I would probably look for a high I and be like, hey, you have a lot of business but you're a shit show. Like, how can I get in here and get you organized and explain stuff to clients or work with investors better or become a listing specialist. Like really crunch data and know how many buyers are in a market, how many listings are out there, what are the listings that are going to sell so you can speak with confidence when it comes to the numbers of real estate. And if they're high s, I would tell them you probably need to join a team and have like a W2 position within a brokerage and then sell houses as icing on the cake. So you need to be a transaction coordinator, you need to work for a brokerage and get a paycheck. But you're around the people like Joseph that are good at this and you're hearing how they talk, you're listening to the phone call, you're like, oh, I never would have thought to say that. I remember when I was new, that was so big for me. And I'm not a high s. But just hearing someone get a phone call from a lead and warm them up and be like, why don't you come in the office and let's talk more. I would have just tried to be like, I'm going to send you to a lender to get pre approved. That's the fastest way. But you get them in front of you and you build a better relationship. And now they're, like, loyal to you, Right? So I think S's are going to struggle with having the boldness to just get out there and do it. But if you put them in that environment and you let them absorb it at a slower pace, they'll get comfortable and then they'll be great.
- [58:21]
B
I made one note while you're talking there, David. I think something else of value for people who are either thinking of leaving or have just left. One of the hardest things for me to let go of was my ego in the sense of when I call somebody, oh my God, they're gonna think I'm a realtor. And now I'm calling them because I'm not the person who just picked up the phone. I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know, Margie, I just thought of you and that's never been what I am again. Now I have the capacity to do it and I want to sustain that relationship. And I had to let go of that ego. That's like, oh, my gosh, they're gonna know that you're calling them because you're a realtor. Then I had to, like, back it up, right? Am I calling them because I'm a realtor or am I calling them because now I'm. I'm thinking of my people more and I'm seeing my people more in the different areas around my life. And so I had to really let go of that fear and just not be afraid to. To write a postcard, to send a gift, to text or to call. That was really, really hard for me.
- [59:24]
A
That's. I mean, yeah, it could be terrifying, actually, when you're new. I hated doing all that kind of stuff too. This might sound surprising because I talk for a living now, but when I was a new realtor, I was too scared to call the people that showed up at my open house. I didn't know what to say. It's like, hey, I'm calling you because I want to make money from you. But I don't know how to start this conversation. It was so awkward. And I had another agent that was experienced, that sat with me. I dialed the number and she whispered in my ear what to say, and then it was on speaker. So they'd reply and she'd whisper a bit again. Like that scene in Romeo and Juliet. Whereas, like, buddies in the bushes, like, tell her, this. This will work, right? And it took that to get me going. But once, once I did it a couple times, that fear goes away. And so many things in life are like that. I remember I was literally afraid to go to the gym and work out. I just was super, super skinny and insecure, and I'd see the meatheads in there and be like, I don't deserve to be this. Like, I don't belong here. You get that voice in your head that tells you you don't deserve it. And so many things in life work that way. You want to go shoot guns, but you're just nervous. You don't know what it's like. You want to go to jiu jitsu or martial arts, but you think you're not worthy. And I think realtors have this a lot, which is probably why they're listening to these type of podcasts, because they're trying to get that feeling of like, window shopping, like, maybe I'll figure it out. So you gave some great advice for what some people can do to get started. If people want to follow up with you, if they want to learn more about Wichita real estate or they want to get connected to some of the meetups you're doing, where can they go?
- [60:53]
B
Yeah, so Instagram is Joseph Hamer, Realtor, and Hamer is like Hammer, but with one M. But yeah, that's. That's probably the easiest place. Obviously, I'm on Facebook. Both have my, My business page there, but I'm. I'm very responsive. Once we connect, texting and calling will be much easier. I don't have the best time with Facebook messenger on my phone, but no, I'd be. I'd be happy to talk about the market. I'm also not oblivious that I'm only a year into this full time. You know, I'm. I'm a lifelong learner. I believe in education. I only read non fiction. I'm not afraid to admit that there's going to be a lot of lessons that even probably rock my world over the next six months, but I'm more than happy to talk about and encourage others who are looking to get moving.
- [61:51]
A
Awesome. Thank you for that. And remember everybody, today's show was sponsored by the one brokerage. The one brokerage where you can go for every type of real estate loan there is. So if you're looking for fix and flips, DSCRs, Brrrr packages, Fusion packages, HELOCs or good old conventional loans to just buy a house, we got you covered. So head over to davidgreen24.com and use the chat feature to connect with me. Or you can send me a DM or Instagram if you're more comfortable. I'd love to make an intro for you. Do a second to leave us a comment on today's show. If you're listening to this on Spotify or YouTube and let us know what you thought and do. Reach out to Joseph if you want to learn a little bit more. He's a good dude with a good mission making some good progress. Joseph, thanks for being here today. I appreciate you.
- [62:33]
B
Appreciate it. Thank you.
- [62:34]
A
We'll do it again. Sam.