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- [00:00]
David Green
Welcome to Real Talk Real Estate, the show where we cover how to build wealth in real estate with no fluff, no BS and no sales pitches. I'm David Green and I've been doing this for over 10 years. I've seen the ups, the downs, and everything in between. This is the show where we pull back the curtain and show it to you, too. So if you want to build wealth through real estate or you just love learning about it, you found your home. What's going on? Real Talk Real Estate. This is David Green and this is the Real Talk Realtor show. If you're a real estate agent, you've got a treat coming. Today. I'm being joined by Kelly Scovel, a real estate agent in New York, rural New York, who's also a real estate investor and has found a way to combine owning real estate with helping other people do it and has carved out a very nice niche for herself while also being a full time mom and wife. Kelly, welcome to the show. Hi.
- [00:50]
Kelly Scovel
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
- [00:53]
David Green
Yeah. Did I miss anything on my intro about all of your talents?
- [00:57]
Kelly Scovel
No, I'm super impressed by that intro, actually.
- [01:01]
David Green
Well, thank you. Kelly has also guest hosted the Real Estate Rock Stars podcast. So if you hear her voice and you're like, I know I've heard this somewhere, that's probably what it is. She co hosted Aaron's podcast for a little while and she's here with us today. Kelly, you're, from what I know, you're not the person that's like completely sold out, obsessed with doing nothing but working, just slamming your Facebook with a bunch of stuff. You do a really good job of balancing your family, your kids, your fitness and real estate and making money. With owning real estate, I'm sure it's stressful, but I've always admired that about you, is that you're not completely sold out. You're not pulling your hair out of your head, doing nothing but thinking about work and where the next deal is coming from. And I kind of think that's the right avatar that we need to be showcasing to agents is you're in this for a marathon, not a sprint, if you approach it, just completely obsessed with where the next listing is going to come from and what your buyers are going to do. You're going to run out of steam and have a mental breakdown, which happens a lot in our industry. Was that a conscious decision you made or did that just sort of like something that you had to figure out how to fall into to stay in the Game.
- [02:11]
Kelly Scovel
No, you're. You're right. That. Thank you, by the way. That was quite the compliment. But I do. It's been a conscious decision since I. Before I even had kids. It. I always knew I wanted to have a family and real estate sales and real estate investing, I felt like was going to be the. The way that I could raise my kids, not have a babysitter and also have a career. And along the way, it's been hot. There's been times where I've had to pull back and be like, okay, why are you doing this? That you're doing real estate so that you can show up to every field trip in every baseball game and every football game. So there are times when I actually have to, like, pull it back and be like, okay, where's the balance? But, yeah, that's. That's always been a goal of mine. Like, we get one life, and I want to have this balance where I get a lot of fulfillment for my career. But also, I'm, like, super focused on my family. And like you said, I. My favorite thing to do, aside from spend time with my family, is stay fit. So.
- [03:17]
David Green
Yeah, you're super. Are you a crossfitter or do you just spend a lot of time in the gym?
- [03:22]
Kelly Scovel
It's. I go back and forth. So I went back to CrossFit for about eight months this past summer, last summer, and then into the fall and winter. And now I'm back in my home gym just because in the spring market, it's been so busy. So I put my CrossFit back on hold. I set this silly goal that I wanted to run a marathon this year. I've never ran a marathon because I don't really love running. So with the spring market being super busy, I pulled back. I'm back in my home gym, and I'm also training for a marathon.
- [03:53]
David Green
Okay.
- [03:56]
Kelly Scovel
Now I really have to follow through.
- [03:58]
David Green
Right. But you're not, like, dedicated to one particular kind of fitness. It's just whatever you can make work in your lifestyle.
- [04:04]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I love. I love olympic lifting, the CrossFit stuff. I love things that involve weights because I've always been a very tiny girl, and so feeling strong growing up, like, wasn't really a thing. And CrossFit led me to weightlifting and feeling strong and powerful.
- [04:23]
David Green
Okay. Because you don't have to worry about someone picking you up and kidnapping you when you're showing houses. If you got a little bit of muscle there. Right. You can get the mace out of your purse faster and spray them down.
- [04:32]
Kelly Scovel
Maybe it might still be a fear of mine, but yeah.
- [04:35]
David Green
So this question is for all the ladies that hear this and they've always thought about working out because I don't know, I'm not a lady. But my guess would be about 90% of women at some point have thought I would like to do that. It's just kind of intimidating or scary or they don't have anyone to show them how to do it, or they don't know what's going to happen. If a girl touches a weight in the gym, is she going to swell up, puff up and get bulky? Like every woman seems to be afraid is going to happen if they touch a weight.
- [05:04]
Kelly Scovel
I feel like, I feel like the Internet has done a good job debunking this at this point because I feel like it's all over everywhere. Unless just the stuff I follow is really driving at home. But no, you don't. It takes a conscious huge effort to be able to bulk up or get big like some women. You know, I think in the 90s and early 2000s would say even then.
- [05:25]
David Green
I, I've been trying for years and I've never really gotten to be like really big. Right. Like people make it their full time goal and they can't. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Like, I think if you can incorporate weight training into whatever you're doing, especially as a woman, not only will you not get bulky, but you will probably just get like firmer, like a little more dense and then your metabolism will increase so that if you do have that cheat meal or whatever, your body burns through it faster, it doesn't immediately get turned into fat right away. And cardio in, in a lot of ways actually trains your body to not have muscle. It's like, look, if I gotta run really far, this heavy muscle is slowing me down. Let's get rid of it. And so you become skinnier and then it becomes easier to put on. Is that like something that you figured out through your fitness journey?
- [06:14]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, it's very easy. So it's super hard for me to gain muscle and very easy to get that runner's body, which has been a fear of my training for this marathon. But I'm still lifting four days a week in the gym, so. So I'm hoping that I'm not really losing that, that the muscles aren't, you know, lengthening out from the long runs. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a journey. It's fun to get that toned body though. You know, you have to lift muscles. You can't just do cardio or lift muscles. You have to lift weights. You can't just do cardio. If you want to lick tone, you got to lift.
- [06:48]
David Green
And a lot of the most toned people are the lifters because I don't think it's understood that lifting weights is a form of cardio. Your heart will be pumping fast. You will have to burn glucose to be able to do those movements. And then your body break down fat to replace the glucose that you burned. Yeah, yeah. Now question. Have you ever picked up a client through the gyms where you work out?
- [07:10]
Kelly Scovel
Oh yeah, the gym that I work out at right now, the CrossFit gym, I'm. It's on, my membership is on hold. I brokered their deal when they moved from a smaller gym into the, this big space that they're in right now, this big warehouse that they took over.
- [07:24]
David Green
So you broker the actual gym, gym's owner's deal to get the gym itself?
- [07:29]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [07:30]
David Green
Okay. How did you develop that relationship?
- [07:33]
Kelly Scovel
I met those gym, this, this couple I had met at the previous gym that we were all at a CrossFit gym. So we met there probably 10 years ago when I only had two kids. They would, they would coach together, this sweet couple and they would carry my six month old around with them and coach so that I could get a break from my 6 month old and my 2 year old and get in, get my quick, you know, workout in. And then they eventually decided to break out on their own and open their own gym. They got a small space and they outgrew that within a few months. So about a year or two later they needed, we started looking, they needed an agent to help them get a bigger space and they came to me and there's a lot of agents at our gym. So I was pretty honored.
- [08:17]
David Green
So what about other people at the gym? Did you find that you could pick up clients from either a CrossFit gym or a normal gym or any groups that you got involved with, with fitness?
- [08:27]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I just negotiated, just listed property yesterday, negotiated an offer today for clients that were buyers and now I've turned into sellers that I met also through the gym.
- [08:42]
David Green
And how did you develop those? Like, did you see someone and be like, they have a house and I'm going to sell it or was it sort of you were just nice and they were nice, you supported them and then they found out you were an agent and asked you for help with real estate?
- [08:53]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I'm not as salesy. I'm not. I, I don't, I'm not out like looking for people to tell that I'm a real estate agent. Although I know that it always comes up. But like I just am friendly and talkative and talk to everybody and so it just kind of comes out.
- [09:10]
David Green
I think the reason I'm asking is I think a lot of agents are wasting business opportunities in their everyday life. What we call the sphere of influence, just the people that you come across that you have influence over every day. And they think that working means going to an office or going on a broker tour where you don't find people that want to buy houses, you find other agents that want to sell houses. And I feel like the key to a successful career in real estate sales is to find this balance where you're always working. I talk about this in some of my books. Like you're always looking for a client no matter what you do. You're looking to develop a relationship. You're looking to make a good impression on someone. You're looking to be of service to someone else so they could build trust with you. And then you are never working because no matter what you do, you're always having fun. You can go out on a boat with another family and get to know them and then you're going to sell their house when the time comes. Right? Like, can you just give me some insight into ways that you've made that work over your career? Because we're going to talk a little bit about how many houses you're selling right now. But I think it's important to know you're not doing this by buying online leads or like some secret system where you're finding a whole bunch of buyers. You're actually developing this just by living your everyday life.
- [10:23]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, that's 100 how I built my business. It's been through my sphere for from the get go. So I've been an agent for nine years and I started on a team that did buy leads. I didn't get a lot of leads though. Like it was a couple, maybe two or three a month. So I have. That's solely been how I've built my business. But I am at. My husband is really outgoing and loves to be out in the mix of things and so that I was super introverted. Now I'm gotten used to being out and in public and in social situations and I actually love it now. So I'm. I. That's what I teach my team too that I have now. So it's all about building your sphere. And I tell them, I'm like get into this school, I go to PTO events. I sponsor pizza at these, like, different family fun nights. I'm always sponsoring the football games. I'm at the football. I don't just go to the football games and watch. I volunteer a lot too. So I'm on the sidelines, you know, running the chains or doing different things for the baseball. So my kids play a lot of sports, and that's where I am right now. But even pri, like, beyond that, I'm always going out to my restaurant. The restaurant's in our town. I go to the gym. Yeah, I love being out and just socializing and it's not. And like you said, you are always selling, but not in that, like, salesman type of way. Like, I'm just helping me. And that seems to work really well for me, building my sphere in that way.
- [11:53]
David Green
I like to think about real estate outside of what we're used to. So I think about if I wanted to buy a car. Like, I'm. I just moved to Oklahoma. I need to get a truck. You get a little bit of anxiety about buying one because you don't trust a dealership. You definitely don't trust a car salesman. You definitely don't trust a used car salesman. You know that their job is to get your money and as much of it as they can get. And they're going to be nice and friendly to you, but they don't have your best interest at heart. And so you get anxiety about the process of buying a car. You put it off. You try to figure out a way to get around it. There's no fun way to do this because you can't hire an agent to go car shopping with you to negotiate against the dealership. That would be the ideal way is you could find someone that knew cars really well, knew how inventory worked. They got a percentage of whatever they saved you, and they went to negotiate against the other side. I think it's because the car dealership shut it down. Like, they're like, this ain't no mls. You don't get. You don't get representation here. But yeah, that would make more sense. Like, you get a car expert that knew what the Kelly Blue Book value was and could go find you a deal and then bring it to you, and then they get paid for what they found you. But I think if they had that, I would want someone that first I trusted. Like, you just have a good heart. You're not going to rip me off. I think that's what we look for in a partner. We look for that in A friend. We look for that in a business associate first. Then I would look for how much you know about cars, how well do you know the market? Do you know what's out there? How good of a negotiator are you? How good are you at knowing the thing you're going to do? But those are the two things I wouldn't really give a crap about how many years they'd been in business. I wouldn't care what brokerage they worked for. That's what I'd look for. And I think at a subconscious level, this is what every home seller is looking for. Do I trust you? And then do you seem knowledgeable about what you're doing? So I can feel good about this. Same with the buyer. I'm scared. I don't know what's into going to buying a house. I don't want to overpay. I don't know what they're going to ask me for. I don't know how much money I need. How do I know if the house is a lemon? Well, if I trust Kelly, because I know she's a good person and she would treat me the way she wants to be treated. And Kelly seems smart about real estate. They're not going to keep looking. That's the agent that they're going to pick. And when I'm coaching agents, this is frequently what I'm trying to get them to understand. You need to quit looking for a lead source, and you need to start thinking about you. When you meet people, do they get the vibe that you're confident and you're trustworthy? Or do they get the vibe that you're a snake or you're insecure, or you don't trust yourself because you don't know what you're doing, or you're just like, you're only interested if they're going to write an offer. You're not interested in getting to know them. You see where I'm getting at with this?
- [14:25]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [14:26]
David Green
And I think you. You may not realize this about yourself, but you have that energy that everywhere you go, people like you. They trust you. Like other people would let you babysit their kids in a second. They wouldn't doubt for one minute that you're not going to take care of their children. And I think this is why you continually get business coming your way without putting yourself on all the billboards and saying, hey, look at me. Without posting the thirst traps on social media with you showing homes like, hey, if you use me as your agent, you might get a little bit of this too. Right. Like, all the things that people are pressured to go do, you haven't done any of it and yet you're kicking their butt in sales. Like, do you have any advice you can give on when you got into the business, what that process was like for you to find your voice and figure out what it looks like for you to be the best version of you in this industry?
- [15:15]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I think it was one was consistency. Right. Like, I can. I have an agent on my team right now. She's really good about consistently doing something. Like, she's consistently posting. She sends handwritten notes. She's doing stuff to stay top of mind all the time, sending out letters, things like that with her sphere. But I think that was a big part of it was I was just consistently showing up on social media. I would do, you know, video tours back when that was a thing. I don't know if you remember that because I think you used to do like video tours through the houses. Like, you know, anything to again, stay top of mind. But also, like from also being a real estate investor. I got comfortable being uncomfortable when I was really young, like in my 20s, asking for, you know, meetings with people that were intimidating. Going from bank to bank, trying to get lending, all that stuff I was in, like, going to network, networking, things, like, all of that stuff was very uncomfortable for me. So I got comfortable being uncomfortable. So going now walking into a gym full of people and starting to chat with people and making friends is really easy. And I think that that is a way when you're friendly and outgoing. Like you said, people tend to automatically get this feeling of trust that you're trustworthy.
- [16:39]
David Green
But you can't fake it. Right. Like you either are or you're not.
- [16:43]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, yeah. You have to be yourself. 100% be yourself. I would never, never. Yeah, you cannot fake that because people can see right through it. I am like, big can feel it in my stomach when somebody's funny feeling.
- [16:59]
David Green
Yeah, that's exactly right. And that sort of puts you in the position of a lot of jobs, but definitely real estate agent. That self development and personal development is really the best business development you can do. Because almost everybody can sense when you're legit, trustworthy, transparent, and you care, or when you don't. And a lot of people, I think, put their effort into how do they hide their intentions versus just how do I improve my intentions?
- [17:26]
Kelly Scovel
Mm, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.
- [17:29]
David Green
So, all right, so let's talk about how much business you're doing. We've Already acknowledged that you're not like completely sold out. Soldier soul to the sales devil, trying to sell as many houses as you can. You're just consistently doing work, meeting people and doing a good job and then referrals come back your way. Is there anywhere else that you're getting business from other than word of mouth referrals in your sphere?
- [17:50]
Kelly Scovel
Nope, just that.
- [17:51]
David Green
Wonderful. This is what I think the industry of real estate used to be and what it needs to be now. How many deals have you done so far this year?
- [18:00]
Kelly Scovel
Today I just wrapped up my 25th transaction. Undervalued, like under contract. So that's everything under contract.
- [18:06]
David Green
So we're less than four months into the year and you've already done 25 escrows at this point.
- [18:12]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [18:13]
David Green
All right. And it's kind of crazy.
- [18:15]
Kelly Scovel
This is hands down my best year. Yeah, so far.
- [18:18]
David Green
But this is one of the worst markets we've seen for real estate. Like houses aren't moving like they were and there's not a ton of inventory to sell.
- [18:25]
Kelly Scovel
It's changed. Yeah, it has definitely changed, especially since last year. But our market's also a little bit insulated. We have Cornell University and Ithaca College, although Cornell University announced a hiring freeze a couple weeks ago, which really sent some people into a frenzy. So, yeah, it's been. I, I have heard other colleagues talking about that their business is down, but that has not been the case for me. I've spent the last two years though, really ramping up, focusing on sellers and showing and marketing that target sellers that proving that I am like a top notch seller's agent. And I think that is, that's what most of my transactions have been. And I think that's where I'm really thriving right now.
- [19:10]
David Green
I love that. I think that's a sustainable career. How are you handling the logistics of this? Are you showing houses yourself? Are using other people to help you show homes? What does it look like when you actually find a client and you're going to put them in contract?
- [19:24]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, they're. So if they're, if they come to me, they were referred to me. They're my client, then I am usually showing them the homes. Unless for some reason I can't. I'm usually their main point of contact. I don't have a showing agent or anything like that.
- [19:40]
David Green
And what about your listings? Do you have a TC that's helping put them in? Are you doing that yourself too?
- [19:44]
Kelly Scovel
I do have. So I do have a assistant who helps me on both sides in both businesses with our income Properties and managing those and. Yeah, prepping. Prepping paperwork and stuff like that.
- [19:56]
David Green
For me, I love that I was just talking to someone on the phone about this today that when things slow down, you get to the point you have to lay off staff. But if your staff can do more than one specific thing, you don't have to lay them off. So that's job security for them. And then when things are going well, you can even give them a raise or you can pay them more because you're making more money and they're helping you to do it. So did you have a hard time finding somebody that would do property management management and transaction coordination? Because they looked at it like, well, those are two jobs and I'm only one person.
- [20:29]
Kelly Scovel
No, it actually, it kind of all happened organically. So it started with, I needed help. We had 24 units and I was getting overwhelmed between my real estate sales picking up and then managing the units. And to be honest, I was just sick of writing leases and showing apartments and dealing with that kind of turnover. So it was either higher property management company or bring on an assistant who was going to cost less that I could teach. I could. I still had. My business was going to be run the way I wanted it run. I still wanted my tenants taken care of in a certain way. That means a lot to me. So we happened to find it was actually somebody that we've known for a long time. So I really trust her. And it started with just her helping with our income properties and leases and managing the tenants. And then as I grew a team out, she also grew into that position as an assistant for the team.
- [21:28]
David Green
Normally, people ask about, how do you find the person that you're going to hire, how do you train them? What are their job descriptions? I actually want to take a different road here. For the person who's working in that position, you're the W2 worker. You work for a real estate professional and you're listening to this or just you're the real estate professional and you need to be in that person's head. What do you think they need to understand or how should they approach something to be supportive and useful for the person in your position? Because your success is where the money from their paycheck is going to come from.
- [22:02]
Kelly Scovel
Oh. Oh, that's a good question. I don't know how to answer that. I don't know. I can tell you that what the reason that the relationship with my assistant has been so successful is that she is very similar to me. She's very driven. She Thrives on, on compliments and you know, being like atta boys. Like she really likes when I good job. And she's also a mom and she homeschools. So her and I have a lot of similarities. And she doesn't like to disappoint, so. But I don't. Yeah, that's a good question about how do you get them to.
- [22:48]
David Green
Well, you think you made a couple good points. She doesn't want to disappoint you. So there's pressure on her to do a good job. And that's kind of a blessing in some ways because now you don't have to put the pressure on her. You don't have to put the screws to her. You don't have to make threats, you don't have to hold her accountable or micromanage her because a lot of things in life are like this. Like if you don't motivate yourself, someone's going to have to come motivate you. Right. Your kid doesn't want to do their homework, you're going to have to do something to motivate them. And it might be negative reinforcement. There might be a tablet taken away or no dessert tonight if you don't want to eat your vegetables. Right. You'd rather have the person that's motivated themselves because nobody likes to have to be the bad guy with their employees. So that's one thing is maybe we look for a human that is a people pleaser, that, that's not always terrible to be in that position. Do you find that that puts pressure on you to give her better working conditions to make sure she gets days off? To make sure she gets. Because you know, she's so hard on herself actually.
- [23:48]
Kelly Scovel
So, so she, just to be clear, she's not a W2. She has a 1099 with me and one of the deals was like as long as you get the work done, I don't care what time it gets done. So she, she can go on little to no sleep too, which is impressive because I am not like that. So I'll sometimes see emails or text messages when I wake up in the morning from like 12:00am or 2:00am so she, that has been really, that's been good for her because again, she is a stay at home mom who homeschools three kids. So she's busy in her own right. So her having that flexibility of knowing, okay, as long as I get it done by the deadline that Kelly set, I'm good. And so I give her that free reign that, that's worked really well, for.
- [24:31]
David Green
Us, because you don't really have to police her because she polices herself.
- [24:35]
Kelly Scovel
Yep.
- [24:36]
David Green
Yeah, I think there's something to be said for that. Because as much as people complain that there's not many good jobs out there, I find that business owners complain there's not that much good talent out there that wants to work. A lot of people are just looking for the easiest job they can find with the best perks and the least amount of stress. But the problem is when the employer is trying to get the most work as they can out of their employee, and the employee is trying to get the least work that they have to or the most money that they could get out of their employer, nobody's thinking about the customer. And that's where things fall apart, because both of them get their money ultimately from the client. It's the transactions that close that fund the TC and the photographer and the contractor. We were having another talk this morning about the same thing. I had some pictures taken for houses I'm selling, and they're really bad. They're just terrible pictures. Like, I didn't look at them. I had someone else schedule this. And so I. The house wasn't selling and I pulled it up and I'm like, this effort. Took pictures with his cell phone.
- [25:37]
Kelly Scovel
Oh, that's the worst.
- [25:39]
David Green
You gotta scroll through nine photos of the ugly front of the house before you even get to the really nice kitchen. And then they're terrible angles, they're dark. And then there's like 53 photos before you get to the really nice backyard with the pool. And I'm like that obviously this is why it's not selling, right?
- [25:59]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [25:59]
David Green
But like, the agent can't understand that he did not save himself money by not getting professional pictures taken. He prevented himself from getting any money because nobody's going to buy the dang house. You could tell I'm frustrated.
- [26:14]
Kelly Scovel
Not only that, but not who's gonna want to work with that agent. Like, I feel like every time we put a listing out there or you put anything out on your websites, social media, any type of marketing piece, that is an opportunity to secure your next client. Right. So, like, everything that goes out there, like, you want to put, like, I wanted to show that I'm very high quality, that everybody. It doesn't matter what type, whether your listings, a hundred thousand dollar listing, or 2 million, like, you're getting the same treatment. And so, yeah, you're. He's just preventing himself from getting more business.
- [26:50]
David Green
I feel like that's it. And. And that's because the customer isn't being thought of right. There's a paradigm shift that happens with successful employees that get raises, they get promotions, they get new responsibility that grow their career, and the employers that need to run a successful business, that the focus of everything needs to be on the client. How do we give them the best experience possible? How do we serve them the best way possible? Because that's where the money comes from and that's where the referrals for future business come from. And if agents can grasp this very basic concept of do unto others as you would have them do unto you, put their needs before your own. I their business grows to look like what yours looks like, and they don't have to be stressed out all the time and feel like they're spending no time with their kids or they're a bad wife or they gain weight because they can't prioritize their fitness because they're just constantly thinking about the next deal or their staff member that's not working. Like, I just, I had this epiphany not that long ago that I realized so much of my stress was from employees that were trying to not work. And I'm like, I got to go drop the hammer on them. And then their stress comes from, my boss is going to come drop a hammer on me. How do I avoid that happening? And none of us were thinking about how do we make sure that the client gets what they need? Because if that part works, all the rest of it's going to work as well. Do you have any advice for the newer agents in this or maybe the agents that have been around for a while, their business isn't growing like they want it to. For some steps that you've taken to put your clients first.
- [28:21]
Kelly Scovel
Ooh, specifically in terms of putting my.
- [28:24]
David Green
Clients first, like, what approach do you take when you're getting a listing or when you're working with buyers? Because most people want the seven steps you're supposed to take to sell a listing. But I feel like if your heart's in the right place, you kind of know what to do on your own. What are some things you're doing in your business that you think are putting the clients first that have led to you getting so many referrals?
- [28:44]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I make sure. So one of the things that I feel like differentiates me specifically when I'm listing versus other agents is that we're doing. I think a lot of agents out there now are doing, you know, the professional photography one is like a non negotiable and Then two, we do a video. We shoot a video where I'm introing the house and then, you know, they shoot the details and we put that out there. So I'm seeing agents are putting. They're shooting, some are shooting those videos, but then they're just plopping it on their Instagram feed. And that I, I go the extra step and I do ad placement. So I let all my. I let all of my sellers know, hey, not only are we going to take this video and put it on, like, our social media sites, but we're actually going to do targeted ad advertising. And that will. Because, and I explained, like, you know, everybody sits down on Instagram and Facebook. And so instead of just, you know, a third of the people on my page seeing it, we're going to push it out to everybody in the area that's looking under all of these targets. You know, you can choose all those descriptions. So I just really make them feel like they're getting a lot of bang for their buck. And it's super special. I mean, we all do that thing where we communicate. You text right away. All that. That's like. That goes without saying, right? Being super communicative, maybe.
- [30:04]
David Green
I mean, I don't know if it goes without saying. I know the difference between the agents that I have that tell me about every showing and the specific feedback. And they send me screenshots like Billy in Arizona, where I'm selling the property I have with Rob out there in Scottsdale. And I've had Billy that sold my Arizona houses and helped me buy for years. And I love him. He just bends over backwards to give me the best service he possibly can. And he'll send me screenshots of this is exactly what the agent said. And I can see how he replied. I can see him pushing to try to get the house sold versus the agents that you got to track down and ask them. And they act like it's a waste of their time or you're bothering them to get feedback for the job you hired them to do. But I just don't think that many brokers are teaching their agents what they should do. That's why people listen to podcasts like this, because they're looking for that direction that to you might sound obvious, but to your average agent, they're like, someone just tell me what I'm supposed to do, because I don't know.
- [30:59]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I think that's where a team comes in handy. Right, because you've got that built in mentor too, versus being out there all by Yourself just, you know, potentially reinventing the wheel and all.
- [31:11]
David Green
Right. So in your business, if you had to look at where you could be better, whether that's leads bleeding or follow up not being that great, everybody has things they can improve. What are, what are the things that seem to come up and bite you in the butt every time where you're like, oh, that's always where I. I miss it.
- [31:26]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, I would say so. I try to be a great communicator, but I think systems in my communication as we move through the transactions, because I don't have transaction coordinators, are things that I could be better at. And, you know, during the down season, that's always when you're like, okay, how do I. Not only are you looking to, you know, figure out how to lead generate, but also like, how. What. How can I improve my business going in to the busy market again? So I did implement a few systems to help, but I think that's a space where I can always use improvement.
- [32:02]
David Green
So that would be like, you got the form sent out, or you hit a milestone in the transaction, like they waived their inspection contingency or something, and you get it done, but you don't always remember to tell the client that you got it done.
- [32:16]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, stuff like that. Or like, okay, hey, yeah, we hit this milestone now, here's the next step. Here's what you need to do. Right.
- [32:24]
David Green
No, I think that's true. That's one of the reasons that I have to have staff in my own dealings, because I will make sure everything gets done. But I am terrible about telling you that everything got done. And if. And it's odd enough that, like, the easier something is to do, the less I want to do it. Is that. Is that a me thing or is it like that for you, too?
- [32:43]
Kelly Scovel
No, there is an easier.
- [32:45]
David Green
You're like, all that I got to do is log in and fill out this form and click submit. And because it's so easy, I'm like, someone else could do that. I need to figure out how to fix the hole in the roof that's going to make the whole thing fall apart. Right. But those little things that we don't do, they really do affect the client a lot. They're sitting there waiting to hear, and they're stressing and they don't want to say anything, but they're going through all this anxiety, then they finally have to reach out to you, and then that's when they're upset. Right?
- [33:09]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah. Well, and that's when I'm mad at myself. Too, right? Like, shoot, I should have beat them to this. They shouldn't be the ones texting me or calling me. I should have beat. You know, I should be the one that reaches out to them first. So I start beating myself up.
- [33:22]
David Green
Well, that's another thing that everyone does. I think that that's worth mentioning here is, like, you've got mom guilt, you've got wife guilt, You've got food guilt when you eat the cinnamon roll you weren't supposed to eat. And then you've got client guilt. Right? Like, when we make a mistake, it is, for some reason, the first thing we want to do is beat ourselves up about it. But it doesn't actually benefit your client that you beat yourself up. That doesn't help them through the situation. It doesn't help your partner that you beat yourself up. Like, the only way that beating ourselves up actually benefits us is if it leads to us making a change. But then it doesn't. Like, we just punish ourselves for making a mistake. We do nothing to prevent the mistake from happening again. And so the next time it comes and we beat ourselves up again. Right.
- [34:05]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [34:05]
David Green
Is that a thing that you've, like, had success over, over your career? Is there anything you've done to help with that? Or is that just, like, your nab assist? It's always coming back.
- [34:15]
Kelly Scovel
Feel like maybe a part of it's aging and just giving in and being like, I can't. I can't. I can't do it. All right? Like, also, I. I try to own. I don't lie, and I don't make excuses. So if I drop the ball, I don't lie to my clients. Like, they know. I'm like, I. I'm sorry. Like, I dropped the ball here. Or I should have. I should have reached out to you first. I own it. And they're like, oh, it's no big deal. And it could be a big deal, and they're just telling me it's not. But I feel like that's been super helpful is where I just own it. And then it's kind of like I got, you know, like, they don't yell it. I don't usually do anything to get yelled at by my clients.
- [34:54]
David Green
I think it's your approach, Kelly. Like, when somebody screws up and then they deny they screwed up. Just think about, like, you and your partner, your husband, and he did a bonehead thing, and he argues and says it wasn't his fault. He gives you an excuse. Doesn't that almost, like, force you to argue to Prove that he wasn't Adam.
- [35:12]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, but if they own it, it's like, oh, okay, I don't know.
- [35:17]
David Green
You're 100, right? I screwed that up really bad. That's the 100. Me. I'm dumb. You lose the desire to prove them wrong, and you almost want to build them up again. Like, it's all right. We all make. I think that's the. The superpower for when an agent makes a mistake in a transaction is to tell them first you screwed up, own it, and tell them what you're doing to fix it. Don't make excuses, don't blame the other agent, don't blame the broker. Like, because the minute that happens, there's no reason for them to stay angry at you anymore.
- [35:48]
Kelly Scovel
Right. And it goes back to like, I feel like people can read through that stuff, you know, if you're lying or you're not taking ownership and they believe that you should be taking ownership. Like, they don't now. They don't trust you. Something's feeling funny in their gut, you know?
- [36:04]
David Green
Yeah. Yep. That's exactly what it is. And I think that that comes back to the quality of human. If you're a person that owns your mistakes, that practices extreme ownership, that treats others the way you want to be treated when you miss a deadline. I mean, like, I'm trying to think of the practical things. This would be like, they were supposed to waive their loan contingency on this date and no one got around to doing it, and so it automatically extended. I don't think that's the case in, where you are in New York. But in California, if you have a 14 day due diligence period, on day 14, you have to fill out a form that says, I am waiving my contingency. And if they don't fill that form out, their contingency just keeps going. So on day 14, they can still back out until they have waived it. If they don't waive it, you have the right to put your house back on the market. Which not every market's like this. Like, a lot of them after day 14, they're. They're stuck. They're committed, and their earnest money is at stake. But sometimes agents don't pay attention to that timeline.
- [37:03]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [37:04]
David Green
And then they miss it.
- [37:05]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah.
- [37:06]
David Green
Same for you guys in New York. They have to waive it.
- [37:08]
Kelly Scovel
Similar. Noel.
- [37:09]
David Green
It's.
- [37:09]
Kelly Scovel
I'm thinking of like the loan approval date, right? So, like, we don't have. We have target closing dates. It is different. We're an attorney state, so we use attorneys to close. The loan approval date is like a hard date. And if you say you're buy, you're representing your buyer, your buyer doesn't get loan approval by that date, then if you've got a seller's chomping at the bit to try to get out of the deal, this is their opportunity, and it's pretty much their only opportunity to get out of the deal. So if you're busy in all of your other transactions and just trying to, you know, survive the spring market and you don't realize that the loan approval date has come and gone in, you could be putting your, you know, your buyer could be in a awful situation where the sellers are calling the contract null and void and putting it back on the market. Okay, so, but I. That's like what you're describing.
- [38:01]
David Green
It can happen, right?
- [38:03]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, it can happen. That's a. Yep.
- [38:06]
David Green
So what we would do is when those things go wrong, you would own it with the client. You would. And then you don't just say, I, I screwed up. You say, I screwed up. Here's what we're doing. It'll be fixed this way, It'll be fixed this soon, whatever. Then their anxiety goes down because when you don't tell people what you're doing to fix it, their subconscious tells them they have to fix it. Right? Just like when your husband screws up and you're like, you didn't pick up the eggs that we needed. Now I got to figure out how I'm going to get the eggs if he's like, I screwed up. I didn't get the eggs. But Bobby's bringing him over. He'll be here in an hour. Like, now you can calm down because you'd have the information you need to move forward with it. And then the next thing we would do is we would have a little pow wow and say, okay, what do we need to change in our process so that we don't make this mistake again.
- [38:48]
Kelly Scovel
Again, Right.
- [38:49]
David Green
And there would be another step added at one point to our action plan in our CRM or our Google Doc, if that's what you're doing. And now we don't make that mistake. The key was we had to live off of a Google Doc. We had to have a list of things that were done, which was why I needed admin, because I needed them to make sure that all those steps were taken. I think when we don't operate that way, we just kind of wing it. We just rely on our own self to remember, oh, I see. You Got a story here.
- [39:17]
Kelly Scovel
No, it's not a story, but yeah, that's exactly. I spent this past winter really putting a lot of checklists and systems in place. I started, we started using Trello for our team. I don't, you've probably heard of that. That's been a game changer with checklists that everybody has access to and that. And just like that, something happens and I'm like, oh, that's a checklist item that goes on. That goes right in the Trello template checklist.
- [39:42]
David Green
Yeah. And then five years later, less mistakes are happening and 10 years later, hardly any mistakes are happening. And unless you get a new staff member that's not as familiar with it. And that's why I really think real estate sales is meant to be a marathon. These systems develop over time. Your knowledge develops over time. Your referral base gets more solid over time. Your stress levels go down over time because you've seen these problems before and you know what to do and you can kind of anticipate what's going to happen. And it's so hard in the beginning. And that's one of the reasons I don't think people should get into this, to make a quick buck. It's just the worst way ever to make a quick buck or make easier money than what you used to make. But don't you think it's an amazing career when you figure out how to balance all of the things you want to do and you can pick up leads from just living your life?
- [40:27]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, absolutely. I, I, yeah, I mean, it's given me everything I, in my, like Instagram thing says, like, living my life by design, like, I don't miss any of my kids things. I love my life. I do a lot, I still do a lot of home, like cooking dinners at night, like baking, all that, all that stuff that I love, I still get to do. And I have a thriving career. So, yeah, it's having that balance. It is, it's, it is a. And the vehicle to wealth, you know, like, it's an easy, not easy, but if you do it right, it can really create quite a, an amazing life for you, for yourself.
- [41:05]
David Green
Now you also invest in real estate. Let's finish up talking about that. How did you get started investing? What advice do you have for the people that want to invest but they're scared because they haven't done it yet?
- [41:16]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, it's, that's been life. The investing has been life changing. I was young, I was like 20. I read a book, one book, or saw something saying that real estate investing was a vehicle that could create wealth for anyone. Like, I came from very humble, humble background. So I was like, oh, this is available to anyone. I don't need to have like a degree from Cornell or some become an engineer or something like that. Like this. I could get started in this without any, without a degree or anything. So I was like 22 or 23 and just started looking and we found a split level and in the bottom, the split levels where you walk in and you know, you go up or down the basement already had the windows for egress. It had its own entryway. And I figured out that all we would have to do is put a wall up and then we would have like a basement apartment. So we did that with like $2,000, put a kitchen in. This was, you know, 17 years ago. We put a kitchen in a wall up and rented out, rented it to our first tenants. And by the end of the first year it was the rent was paying our entire mortgage, taxes, utilities, and we are living, you know, housing cost free at that point. And that's all it took. We were hooked after that.
- [42:45]
David Green
That's amazing. Like, so now once you have the first house, you like it, you had a little more confident getting the next one.
- [42:51]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah. And it happened to be the one next door. The house next door was a duplex and it came with. It was like a double lot. But the double lot happened to have this been grandfathered in for this variance where you could subdivide that ability to subdivide and build on that lot had it not had this like grandfather had been grandfathered and you couldn't do. But it happened to have this grandfathered variance. So we bought that second duplex right next door and then subdivided off that little chunk of land and built another duplex next to it. So we have three duplexes, our first properties. First three properties are duplexes right next to each other.
- [43:28]
David Green
Is that what you would recommend that agents should start off if they're trying to find investment property? Because I think if they know nothing about this, they're going to look for a track home in a gated HOA and it's going to be a terrible rent house. Do you think small multifamily is where they should put their attention to get their first couple of deals?
- [43:44]
Kelly Scovel
I think so. I mean, yeah, I am big on the house hacking. I don't know if that's still talked about all the time, but house hacking was huge for us. We did it for nine years in two different houses. I had three kids at one point while house hacking in our upstairs apartment. I think every agent, if you want, you know, if you have investment properties and you're doing real estate sales, you're on both sides of the market. No matter what's happening in the economy, you're on both sides.
- [44:19]
David Green
By both sides, you mean if the market's down, you can pick up deals that make sense as rentals, and if the market's up, you can make money selling houses.
- [44:28]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah. And so if. Yeah. And if there's. If there's not a lot of inventory out there, your apartments are being full. Right. Like I haven't had vacancies in years because there's. We have such low inventory. So if I can't put people in contract to buy a house, if I have an opening come up and a vacancy come up in one of my apartments, I can put them in there. So you're just kind of seeing both sides of that, those kind of real estate tenant side and sales side.
- [44:57]
David Green
I really like that. That's how I always set it up. That when the market's hot, instead of complaining that there's no deals to be had, help other people with what you learned. Buying your own rentals, selling homes. And when the market's not hot and it's really tough to eke out a living, take some of that money that you saved and buy some. Live in flips house hack, which is just rent out part of your house to someone else while you live there. Pick up investment properties or maybe flip a couple houses if you can. But when you see yourself as a real estate expert, not just a real estate agent, all of these doors open up, you see opportunities, you get way less anxiety. You don't fear a recession. You kind of look forward to no matter what the market does, because you can win in either one.
- [45:39]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, that's sort of. That's how I feel.
- [45:42]
David Green
Yeah, I think that's great advice. In fact, one of the things I've been telling agents like when I'm speaking at conferences is they'll say, what do you think is the future of what I need to do to survive as a real estate agent? And I've said, I think you got to stop seeing yourself as a real estate agent and see yourself as having a license that affords you the right to collect a commission to sell some a house to someone. And the mindset shift is it is not your job. Like, this is all I do. I just sell houses. It is a thing you do. But your job is to Be a real estate professional. You can manage properties for yourself or other people. You can buy fixer uppers and sell them and flip them. You can own rental properties and collect rent. You can be a short term rental operator and manage that or manage other people's houses. There's a lot of things that a real estate professional can do. Selling a house, listing a house, working with a buyer, that's a big one. There's big chunks of money that come from that. It's one of the better pieces. But sometimes you don't get the home runs like that. Sometimes you just gotta eke together some base hits to get through tough times. And if salespeople can see themselves as real estate professionals, which incorporates a lot of different components of real estate, I think a lot of the fear goes away. But, and also, this is the other point that I made. When all you do is sell homes, you've been picky about the part of the process you play. All I do is sell homes. But you, that means you can't be picky about the clients you work with because you need a paycheck. So you work with the ones that drain you, the ones that make you miserable, the ones that make you hate your life when you work in more things. Right. You're an investor, you're a property manager, you're a real estate agent. Maybe you do loans. You, you are not picky about what you do, which means you get to be picky about the, the people you do it for.
- [47:28]
Kelly Scovel
That is so true. Yeah.
- [47:30]
David Green
And I haven't seen anyone really take that path because everyone's like, they see it mentally. Like, I, my job as a real estate agent, I got my license, I'm done. Now I just show homes and wait for offers.
- [47:40]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, No, I guess I would say that has not been. Our market is like you said, a rural market. So you don't really get to. I, I sell commercial. I love commercial. I actually really enjoy that. It's just not a good way to make a living out here because, because there's just not a lot. We're not a densely populated area. There's not a lot of commercial, but I'll do commercial. We actually have, we're waiting to close on what will be a flip for us personally. We had an Airbnb that we actually just sold that off market. That was fun for a couple years. That's going. So I mean, yeah, there's lots of different ways that you can, it's like, what do they talk about? You need seven streams of income. Right. But you can create different streams of income within this industry alone, just like you just listed off.
- [48:25]
David Green
That's a great point. Right. And then that sort of puts pressure on you to learn more because that brings more value to the people that you're working for. Right. If it's hard to add one person to your database, I'd rather figure out three or four ways to make money from that one person in my database than need four times as many people in my database that I have to stay in touch with. It's just a much more efficient way of running your career if you're in it for the long haul. So that's my advice going into 2025 and beyond, where who knows how things are going to work out. It's. There's probably a lot of agents that are going to get out of the business because it's not what they thought. Be the one that dives in deeper. Be the one that learns more, that gets more committed to this, that stands out. Be the type of human like Kelly that people meet and immediately go, oh, I like her. Right. You're. You're doing the opposite of what everyone gets told they need to do. Right. Dress up, get fancy clothes, drive a Mercedes, act like you're better than other people. I don't think anyone sees them and thinks I want them to sell my house, but yet that's like the, the image that we keep pushing on real estate agents today.
- [49:31]
Kelly Scovel
Yeah, that's interesting. No, that's not. I'm usually the one that's enjoying having fun out there with everyone.
- [49:37]
David Green
Yeah, that's it. Right. Just be like them. They'll be way more comfortable, and then they get to know you, and then that's why they're going to choose you. That's awesome. All right, Kelly, for the people that want to reach out, follow up, ask you questions, maybe join your team or hire you to sell their house. And you referrals out there in New York, where can they find you?
- [49:54]
Kelly Scovel
Probably the easiest place is on Instagram at Kelly Scovel. Or you can shoot me an email. Kelly Scapble, Real Estate, Gmail.
- [50:04]
David Green
If you guys like today's show, make sure you leave a comment on YouTube or Spotify and let us know what you thought. We appreciate you guys listening. We know you could get your information from anywhere and you're getting it from here. We love you for that. We'll see you next week on Real Talk. Realtor.
- [50:34]
Kelly Scovel
Sa.