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- [00:00]
A
Christian Bashelder, welcome to Real Talk Real Estate. Today we are going to be doing a mortgage episode. If you've ever wondered how you can get into real estate with low money down, if you've ever wondered if the BRRRR method is dead, if you've even wondered if it was possible to invest in real estate in today's market, not only are we going to give you case studies of deals that we have done for our clients or ourselves, we are also going to show you the numbers behind how it worked and let you know about the loan programs that you could use to do the same. How are you today?
- [00:32]
B
Doing good. Always fun with the alliteration. I feel like everything we do Mortgage Mondays, Real Talk Real Estate. I love it.
- [00:38]
A
That's exactly right. Now, Christian is also known on the streets as the Lone Ranger because he slings loans better than anyone I've ever met in my entire career of investing in real estate. I've yet to meet a loan officer slash mortgage broker that can shake a stick at Christian. Sometimes you're too smart for your own good the that your brain works and our brains work a little too similar sometimes. So we clash. But at the end of the day, there is no better person to help our clients when it comes to loans. So I know you weren't expecting to get a bunch of compliments. So if you're watching this on YouTube, tune in and you can see Christian blushing as his face is red and his shirt is black. He looks like a checkerboard right now. But if you're listening to this on a podcast, you're not going to be able to tell. So Christian, let's talk a little bit about what financing is like in today's market market. So just right now, if someone is buying a primary residence or an investment property, what's the range they can expect to see on interest rates?
- [01:34]
B
Primary residence is going to be in the sixes. Low to mid sixes pretty much across any conventional primary product investments, about a point to a point and a half higher than that. Anywhere from 7 to an 8% depending on credit and down payment.
- [01:48]
A
That's crazy. So you're saying that it's only about a point higher to get into investment property and right now you can get a primary for a rate in the sixes.
- [01:54]
B
That's right.
- [01:55]
A
Yeah. That's not nearly as bad as what it was. I mean, what, like a year ago we were in the eights? High eights maybe.
- [02:00]
B
Yeah. Our peak was October 2023. Just sneaking up on a year ago now where primary residences peaked at about a 799. So 8% for primaries which put investment properties up at 9 plus. So we've definitely come down since then. It's not the four and threes that everybody's, you know, projecting and was hoping for, but hopefully we're on the road there. Right? But absolutely from our peak we are nowhere near that, thank God. Because at 8, 9% primary residence loans, very, very few buyers that are able to overcome that for their, especially for their first home. Right?
- [02:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. Now you and I started the one brokerage together and it's in our opinion the best resource for real estate investors out there, bar none when it comes to financing. We also do conventional loans for first time home buyers for primary residence home buyers. And I don't think you're going to find better people than what we have. It's a really, really good mortgage company and our goal here was to help people who are buying real estate a not worry about being ripped off because there's a crazy, crazy amount of just shady tactics that happen in the mortgage business that most people will never know. Just like when you go buy a car and you walk away saying, oh, I crushed it, I got the price really low. You have no idea what those people that work in car sales are saying behind your back. You never win when you go up against a professional. The mortgage industry the same. We also wanted to give people fair, competitive and lower interest rates because in a lot of cases people get quoted a high rate and then they could have done it for less later. We avoid that. We just give you a really good rate right off the bat. And we wanted it to be timely so real estate investors, people who are buying a house, get an advantage if they can close quicker. And so we created systems so that we could just close loans faster than other people do. Now in today's episode, you and I are going to be talking about specific loan products that we have that will help people to buy real estate. I know this is something that you're very proud of. Can you just take a minute to explain what a mortgage broker is and how many loan products the one brokerage has that will help people when it comes to buying real estate?
- [04:04]
B
Absolutely. What really lenders can be, regardless of how they appear, pretty much everything boils down to they're either direct to consumer or their wholesale, which is what we are. And it's really the comparison between like your local supermarket and Costco. Right. So what we do as brokers in the wholesale space is I go out to all the lenders. Some you've heard of, some you haven't. You know, you think like the Rocket mortgages and loan depots and Chase's and Wells Fargo's. I can go out to all these people, but I go through, you know, the back channels. So I go and talk to people that like the general public can't get in front of, and I say, hey, Rocket, let's just use an example. If I bring you 50 loans a month, right, based on my ability to generate business, I will underwrite them and originate them myself. So I'm cutting your costs exponentially down. What's the lowest you can give me a loan at in terms of interest rate and cost for that interest rate? And I go out and do this to 900 different sources of capital, right? And typically lenders will have a gross profit margin built into their loans. And that's just fancy words of just saying how much money do they make to originate that loan? And if I do the marketing, if I generate a client, if I originate it, if I do all the communication, I'm paying for utilities in an office. I'm in my apartment right now, but, you know, we have an office, right? I'm paying for insurance. All those costs are taken away from the lender now. So the lender cuts their profit margin, let's say, by two and a half points on the loan. I can then come in and charge, let's say, two points, and the borrower still gets passed along a loan that is half a point cheaper than if they went to Rocket directly. That's basically how it works where I work in the margin of what a broker makes in contradiction to what the general public thinks, hey, there's a third party. You must charge more. There's another person involved. The loan has to be more expensive to pay everybody. But that's not true, because my margin and my cut that I make is built into the savings that I create from getting the lenders money and doing the job for them.
- [06:11]
A
That's exactly right. So lenders have money that they want to lend. They don't know how to go find the person who's listening to this right now. And they don't have a skill set where they can figure out who to lend to, what underwriting standards to make, and then provide customer service. It would be terrible.
- [06:24]
B
That's right.
- [06:24]
A
So they pay us to go find the people that need the loan, and then because we do so much volume with them, they give us really deep discounts because of how many loans that we're doing. Which we then pass on to the consumers. Really our goal was to make a business that it would be stupid not to use. There is no good reason that anyone should use another loan officer other than the fact that they haven't heard of us or they're not paying attention to the way that things work. So people can get sold on things. And they do get sold on things all the time. They're slick talking salesmen. But I do every single loan that I have through our company. Christian does the same thing. We have over 100 loans in submission. We're probably the best company in the country when it comes to investors. And we certainly also take really good care of people who are going to buy a house. So with that in line, not only can we offer you better rates and faster service on your loan with lower closing costs, we also have a flexibility of products. Because like you said, we can go to all of these different lenders and say, what type of loans are you looking to make and how do we match you up with the people who want those kinds of loans? Now you know this much better than me. But my basic understanding of how I see it in my head is you've got conventional loans to just buy a regular house. That's like an FHA loan, a VA loan and a low down payment loan. So we have loans for 3% down to 5% down to just buy a primary residence. Then we have what we call DSCR Products, that stands for debt service coverage ratio. These are loans that are not based on a person's debt to income ratio. They're based on a property's debt to income ratio. So how much money the property makes, you can get qualified for a loan. Also 30 year fixed rates. Then we have short term financing or bridge financing, which would be loans that you use to do like a renovation so you can use it to buy the house. And something that's cool now is you can borrow the money for the renovation with the money that you're borrowing to buy the house. This is what we're going to talk about today as a way that people can get into these remodels, whether it's a flip or a burr for very cheap. And then lastly, we do some commercial financing as well. If you're looking to buy an apartment complex or a commercial building, is there any categories that you feel that I may have left out that we can also offer?
- [08:28]
B
I think that's good. I mean, second homes, kind of a niche product. Oh yeah, good point. That's a good one. You still qualify with Debt to income. So that's in that first threshold of loan products that you discussed. But saving half of your down payment on a potential future investment. Properties always a beneficial tactic to use if you qualify.
- [08:44]
A
That's right. So if you want to buy a vacation home for yourself or a second home, we can get you in at 10% down instead of 20% down. Okay. In today's episode, we are actually going to reveal properties that I've bought and what type of loan products I use to do it, as well as some of our other customers. Now, of course, we're not going to be sharing anybody's names or personal identification or financial identification, but we are going to be giving you the gist of how it worked out so you can get a feel for if you wanted one of these loans, what it would look like. So let's talk about some of the properties that I bought in Oklahoma. There's one that is a rental property. Brrrr. And there is another one that is a probably a flip or could potentially be a home that I refinance and move into as a primary residence. Now, I want to go into how much money I'm putting into the deals as well as how I' refinancing out of them. You and I call this our Burr package. So we use bridge financing to buy and renovate, and then we refinance into a DSCR loan so that I never have to supply you with all of my financial information that would just make your life hell. So can you describe briefly what that process is like, what you needed from me, and how these loans worked out?
- [09:57]
B
Absolutely, yeah. So we'll start with the. The B and bur. Right. That, that it can almost stand for bridge at this point.
- [10:03]
A
Right.
- [10:04]
B
Bridge, rent, rehab, refinance, or. Which is what it is. Right. So we utilized a bridge loan to get David into these properties. I'm just snagging one from our worksheet estimate here. David. But he acquired the property for 232,000. Okay. So that's his purchase price. And he financed just about $75,000 in renovation. Now, if you used a normal loan product. Okay, so if you got a conventional loan, this is an investment property. Let's just do the math here. You'd have to put 20% at minimum down to the purchase price. 20% of 230 is what, 46. Okay. $46,000 already out of pocket. Okay. On top of that, you'd have to finance $75,000 in renovation. So what is that? 115,120k just to get this $232,000 property purchased and renovated.
- [10:56]
A
Well, you said finance, but you meant come up with the down payment for it.
- [10:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. You'd have to figure out how to get that money, right? Absolutely. That would just be cash. If you didn't have this option, what we did instead, if the alternative was 115, $120,000 out of pocket, we bought David this property and finance the renovations for a total out of pocket of $46,000 from David, saving what, 80 grand, 75 grand in that ballpark. Huge swing. And how we did this is we used a bridge product. This enables us to finance up to 90% of your cost. Cost is purchase price plus Reno. In this case, 230 plus 74. What is 306 was your total final out of pocket expense. And we financed that with 10% down. So that's 30K. And he had about 15K closing costs, 45, $46,000 at the end of the day, when the alternative with every other loan product would have been 120 or so out of pocket from David literally cut his cash out of pocket, what, by 60%? Down to 70%. Right. Down to 30% of what was needed otherwise.
- [12:03]
A
Now, my initial plan with this property was to flip it. Right now I would have probably had the 15 in closing costs whether I was buying it. That's very. Or another. Right. It's almost a wash anytime you finance it. So if we left that part out of it because it cancels out, it's either $30,000 down on the property or the other option, I think was what you said, 115,000 or so.
- [12:24]
B
115 to 120. Yeah. Money that you have to inject into the project.
- [12:28]
A
Now, as you mentioned, it was a total of 306,000 that I borrowed. That's the money that I'm borrowing to do the remodel as well as the money that I'm borrowing to buy it. The ARV on this property is going to be about $400,000 when I'm done. So I think that Maybe I go $10,000 over budget or so we're talking about an $85,000 profit on a flip that I put $30,000 down on. That's a wild 300% ROI on my money without a massive amount of risk here. That's another thing to keep in mind. And the interest rate is not wild high. So let's talk about hard money interest rates because that's what bridge products are in a sense. When I was starting Investing in like hard money loans were 15, 14, sometimes up to 16% that you'd have to pay and a crazy amount of points. This process of acquiring hard money financing and getting it into investors hands has become so streamlined and there is so much more money floating around that lenders need to let people borrow. They're like this swollen pimple that needs to get popped so bad. There's like please take my money. That the rates to borrow it have come down a lot. Can we talk a little bit about where rates are now on hard money loans versus where they used to be in the past?
- [13:45]
B
Absolutely, yes. Just like David said, 10. I mean I even saw when I first started in the industry some like 17 to 19%. They were, they were up there. Right.
- [13:52]
A
What were the average interest rates for conventional financing when hard money was at 17%?
- [13:58]
B
4 to 6.
- [14:00]
A
Yeah. So you're talking about like 13% spread versus where I'll let you pick up now again today.
- [14:07]
B
Yeah, now. I mean David got a ten and a half. So all hard money loans are going to be 10 to 12. If you're a first time investor, maybe you slide to like 12 and a half. But obviously David, having experience. He did, was in the tens. Right. And these are interest only. And the nice thing about them is that there's no prepay. So like if David. Here's how I like to think about it. I use this analogy a lot. Let's say you have a 12% rate. Let's say you're a first time investor and you're on the higher range of this 10 to 12. You can think about this as an annualized interest rate. Okay, so you have 12%. You can think of it as 1% per month, so to speak. Week. Right. In the event, let's say David finished this renovation, how long were you expecting to do this renovation for, David? I don't know your timeline.
- [14:46]
A
30 to 45 days probably.
- [14:48]
B
Okay, let's say 30 days. It's possible David finishes his refinance as he's making his first payment on this loan. You possibly get out of this bridge money loan for 1% interest rate paid. That's, that's incredible. You, you only paid one month of a 12% rate.
- [15:03]
A
So what you're saying here is my 10 and a half percent interest rate, or let's say it was 12%. That is to use the money for the whole year. But if I only use 1/12 of the year and I have a 12% rate, that's effectively paying 1% of the.
- [15:18]
B
Loan balance, you paid one mortgage payment. Right. And if you immediately get out of that thing and you have a quick exit strategy, the name of the game in this type of financing is speed.
- [15:27]
A
Yeah.
- [15:27]
B
If you're fast, the cost of this money plummets. It gets so cheap.
- [15:33]
A
That's such a good point.
- [15:34]
B
It gets so cheap. You pay one mortgage payment and you immediately get that thing into a DCR. That means you funded $75,000. And even more than that, 90% of the project cost for 1% interest rate. Now granted, you paid some points to close the loan. Hard money loans are going to come between two and four points, guys. David paid two and a half year. But you're financing even if you add that two and a half. Even if you had four, four plus your first month payment of one.
- [16:00]
A
Yeah.
- [16:01]
B
You're getting 90% of a project finance for 5% interest rate. That's crazy. That's like unheard of. And if you immediately get that into a DSCR loan after.
- [16:08]
A
Right.
- [16:08]
B
Okay. Then you're up at a seven and it cash flows and you're solid. And you got all this value add like David said. What, 80,000 I think is what you calculated a value add there. Awesome deal, right? Home run. Brrrr.
- [16:19]
A
Yep. So this is the first part of our BRRRR package, which Christian said, the buy, which in this case is a bridge loan to buy. And to recap a couple of your points there, the rates are higher than they would be on normal financing, but they're not nearly as high as they used to be. They used to be. Now they are not a whole lot more than where conventional rates would be. Relatively speaking, you don't have prepayment penalties. So if you get in and you get out quick, you end up not paying that much for the loan. And one of the things that I think is new and amazing is even in when I was first doing hard money loans to flip houses or to remodel them, you didn't have the option to borrow the rehab with your loan. This is like a kind of a newer thing. So I used to borrow 80% of the money to buy the property, then fund 100% of the rehab cost. So instead of coming out of pocket for 30,000, I was coming out of pocket for 140, 150,000. And that was the price you had to pay to brrrr. You had to have this cash for your remodel or you had to borrow it from somebody else.
- [17:26]
B
And that rate was 17% at a very high number.
- [17:29]
A
That's a great point. Now the lender's letting me borrow all of it, and I'm putting 10% down on both. Okay, so this is like a low money down option to buy distressed real estate that sometimes won't even qualify for conventional financing. You used to have to pay cash for this type of thing or you had to get an expensive hard money loan. You're getting the best of both worlds. It's crazy good. Now it's harder to find deals right now. But this is why we're talking about that, because I don't think a lot of investors understand you don't need a ton of money to get into the distressed properties. Anything you want to add on that point, Christian?
- [18:03]
B
No, I think, you know, it's funny because I hear whenever rates go up, people think of every possible alternative. Like, I talked to a guy a couple days ago who was like, oh, I'm gonna buy in cash. And I said, awesome. Okay, well, I don't see that you have the cash in your bank account. And he said, no, I'm going to use a combination of my HELOC and cash advances from my credit cards. And I'm like, do you want to avoid a mortgage that bad? At 10% interest, your credit card interest rate is probably 34, 35%. Like, what are we doing? I know like, mortgages are high and you're trying to avoid them right now, but at what cost here? What are we doing? Right? It's still like at the end of the day, hard money loans at 10% are like incredibly cheap. That's not expensive at all. Right. Especially like David considered when we were looking at 15, 17%, you know, 10 years ago, on top of the fact that you can finance such high loan to values, assuming that, obviously this is all assuming that the after, after repair value is strong. And you know, there's. You're not maxing out that leverage. But I mean, you know, at this. David, your after repair value was 67% loan to value. You only borrowed 67% of what the project's worth. When you, once you're done, if we did a 75% out cash out DSCR when we're done, you're putting money back into your pocket because you only came out for 46,000 to get this closed, which is like you want to. I mean, people are saying burrs can't be done this market. And there's like, I'm watching the guy doing it and I'm financing them. So you know, I'm gonna have to call BS that they can't be done in this market, they're being done. And the people who are winning are using these loan products right now.
- [19:32]
A
You guys see why I tell you how fast Christian's brain work and how smart he is? Because he's throwing these numbers around like a little kid trying to spell out something in Alphabet soup. I promise you, when you have a consultation with Christian, he talks much slower and he will walk you through everything. But he's very good at this. I want to ask you a question, Christian. Do you think the reason people avoid hard money loans is because the name hard money makes people think that you're going to have your knees broken if.
- [19:57]
B
You don't pay your kneecaps? That's the old analogy, 100%. I don't know why. I think that's probably why a lot of loan officers, myself included, call them bridge now, because bridge is much more, you know, oh, we're just bridging you from point a friendly. It's a lot more reasonable friendly of exactly. You know, it's funny, people ask me all the time like, oh, this bridge loan sounds like a hard money loan. I'm like, well, it is technically, but you know that just. That don't sound nice, right?
- [20:24]
A
Yeah, it's. So, yeah, we call them hard money loans because the. The loan is backed by a hard asset that it is secured by a property. And what I'm getting at here is anytime you have a loan that is unsecured, meaning you're letting someone borrow your money and there's no collateral, you don't get anything back. If they don't repay it, the risk goes through the roof. And so to compensate for the high risk, you get a higher rate. That is why credit cards rates could be in the 30s, because if you don't pay it back, the credit card company has no way of recovering the principal that they let you borrow, so they gotta charge you a high rate. A hard money lender is giving you a loan backed by the asset. They have a lien on this property. So if I got hit by a train tomorrow and couldn't make my payment back, and when, you know, I died, nobody was able to figure out to pay them. They would foreclose on the house and they would get all that equity for themselves, which makes their risk lower than it would be otherwise. And that's why Christian is saying this guy should have just put a mortgage on the property. Because when you are getting a loan backed by a hard asset or that is collateralized or secured, you will always pay less than when you're getting a loan that is not secured by anything. All right, now, we had another project that we were working on, and that one was in another city near this one. That's a much cheaper house. So let's go over the numbers on what that loan was going to be. So I believe the purchase price, I always for know at the time, was it 150.
- [21:46]
B
Okay, yep, I got it for you. So, guys, this is a smaller deal, but still the same numbers. This one kind of shocks you a little bit more. Purchase price was 115. Your rehab budget came in just under 20 grand. 17,200 to be exact, for a total project cost. Adding that 115 to your 117 for 132,000 as a total project cost. David bought this house with $18,000 out of pocket. That's. That's pretty. That's. With closing costs included. That's. You're buying properties, fully financing renovations with $18,000 out of pocket. Your after repair value came in on the appraisal at 180. So you put 10% down of the after repair value, which is wild. That's crazy, right? And you ended up with only a loan of 120 on $180,000. That's 60 grand. You have 60 grand of equity with an $18,000 investment in. In a month. I mean, how long did it take you to do 17,000 of repairs?
- [22:46]
A
So what you're saying there is I put in $18,000 and I added $60,000 of equity to my net worth when the thing was done. Now for that 17,400, whatever that was, we put a brand new roof on the house, new flooring, redid the bathroom, put in a new shower, painted the whole thing, and then fix whatever stuff was wrong in the inspection report. We added a new fence in the backyard because some of the properties out there don't have them. So there was quite a bit of bang for the buck that got. That was done there. But then when I go to refinance it into a DSCR loan, I'm going to recover 100% of the capital, right?
- [23:23]
B
Absolutely. You're going to be at 75% of 180. I'll just do the math here because I'm a nerd. Times 0.75 is 135k. Wow. It lines up almost exactly. Your exit loan is going to be 135,000. Your loan amount that you got was 120. So you're putting what, 15,000 of your $17,000 renovation back in your pocket. So you're leaving 2 grand on the property?
- [23:47]
A
Yeah. So I'll be in for $2,000 and I'll have added $60,000 of equity, or I guess it will be a little bit less equity in that point because I'm refinancing more of what I put in. And then it around the 1:45,000. Okay. And then it lands right around the 1% rule. So my rents will be about 1350, 1400. And like you just said, the total loan when I take it out will be about 135. So here we have an example of a burr property that Anna 1% rural property and some equity. So I could sell it if I wanted. If I didn't want to refinance it and get my 15,000 out. That way I could sell it and get the $60,000. And now I pay taxes and I'd pay closing cost fees and everything. But like, this works in a lot of different ways. But to your point, Christian, I'm not putting that much cash. It used to be that I had to be the guy that had $140,000. And so I was always saving my money because I needed it to be able to go make more money. But with these products, I don't have to do that. I could do like 50 of these if I had the bandwidth to with the capital that would take. Right. And then what were the interest rates on this one?
- [24:57]
B
This one was 1099. Little bit lower loan amount, but still in the tens. Technically, 11% there, but 1099 is the sticker number, right?
- [25:05]
A
That's right. All right, so there is an example of how you can put low money down and you can add equity and you can find 1% properties and they turn into brrrrs after the refinance. Now, if you keep wondering why we're saying the word brrrr, I suppose I should clarify that. It stands for buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. It is the method of which you buy real estate where you buy it, then you rehab it and make. Then you refinance that property. So get your money back out of it, you put a renter in it, and then you use the money you pulled out to repeat the process and do it again. I wrote a book on this. You can find that pretty much anywhere if you just type in Burr. David Green. It's on Amazon. It's on Bigger Pockets. You can find it at a Barnes and Noble bookstore. But it kind of explains the process of what we're talking about. And right now, in real Estate. I keep having people say, burr is dead. You need creative finance. Burr is dead. You need to go sub two. Burr is dead. You have to. What are some of the other things that people keep saying that they can't? Burr? Have you heard some of these statements?
- [26:01]
B
You need a bunch of money. Nothing makes sense. The rates are too high. You know, you can't add value with the market being crazy. Everything, you know, in between that it's. I'm watching it happen. Not only for you, David, for other clients, it a hundred percent. With the lending products that are at your tip, your fingertips nowadays, the odds are stacked in your favor. Right? I mean these are, these are things that people are getting. The vast majority of their projects financed at relatively reasonable rates with no prepays. I mean, David, just like you said, when you turn around and if you did sell that thing, you got to pay agent fees, closing costs. I know one thing you're not paying, you're not paying a prepayment penalty. Right. You're getting out of this loan with no questions asked. Right. It's pretty sweet.
- [26:45]
A
All right, so this has been two examples of the first part, which is the buy and the rehab, which is what we use bridge products for. They're really just a way of combining the first two parts of a brrrr. Let's talk about a client of the one brokerage and what they ended up doing. Now Christian's going to share an example of a property that somebody bought that had a structure on the lot that they converted into an accessory dwelling unit or an ADU to create extra rental income. So can you walk us through what our client did here?
- [27:12]
B
Absolutely. So changing pace now to a little bit, I don't want to say more expansive of a product, but definitely a different structure of a product. This borrower went and took what was just a laundry room. Okay. So didn't really do. She painted and did floors in the main house. But the main value add here was took a separate structure unattached from the property that was currently being used just as like a storage, little, you know, general area as well as an outside laundry room. It had a little shower in there too, if you got out of the pool and you wanted to shower off. So it had plumbing which was good. And she converted that into a mother in law suite or an 80. Different states call them different casitas Adus. Mother in law suites from wherever you're from. You call it different things. Fully finished, it installed a new bathroom, did a kitchenette in the property with new cabinets. Everything nice and New and her total renovation budget for the entire project came in at $70,000. She had a very, very similarly structured loan to David where she financed 90% of the project. She bought the property for 560. Her after she did this renovation, it was worth north of 700. Pretty sweet. So she got a really good valuation there. And she ended up having a property that she just converted with us to a DSCR loan where she's actually going to short term rent both units. So she's going to have a one bed, one bath casita. Short term renting, probably generating 2,500 bucks a month on Airbnb. Airbnb. So if you just want to do a rate of return on that 70,000, creating 2500amonth is pretty sweet. As well as the added rental income from the primary unit. Right, the four bed, three house. The four bed, three bath house. Excuse me, that's also on that property. So she expanded, added square footage, which is the most tried and true way of getting an increase in, in your property value. And now she's getting a really good rental property that absolutely is going to slam the 1% rule, of course, because she's short term renting it and it happens to be in Florida, which is a very short term rental heavy market.
- [29:13]
A
All right, so let's break this one down. They spent $70,000 to convert a structure into a livable unit that they will rent out for 2,500. And with some of that money, they upgraded the primary residence with paint and some other like cosmetic improvements. Right. Painted floors, payment. Okay, so if we assume that all 70,000 went into the ADU, which it didn't, maybe 60,000 of it did. But let's just be conservative here. And they get $2,500 a month in rent. That is the equivalent of a 43% return on the $70,000. Okay, that's crazy. That's not including any equity that would have been added to the property by adding the adu. And it's not including any extra rent that they could have got if because they upgraded the painting in the floors or any equity. But we got to assume there's something that was done in there and if it did not, equity right away. When the market turns around, you now have new paint and new floors, which makes your property worth more. So if you wanted to sell it, you would definitely get a return. So this person got a 43% return on their money. But was that their money or did they borrow that money?
- [30:20]
B
The most important part? Absolutely. Cash on cash return is based on the cash you put into the property. She got all $70,000 of this financed, right? She already owned the property. Even if this was a purchase, you put 10% down of the whole thing, right? So I mean, okay, yeah, you can say the rate of return on 10% of her money like that's now it's a banging deal, right? Your cash on cash return goes through the roof.
- [30:46]
A
That's insane. Right? Now in order to make this happen, you can't just buy any house. You have to find a property with value add potential. In the new book I have coming out, I call this forcing equity and buying equity. Buying equity is when you pay less for a house than what it's worth. Forcing equity is when you make the property worth more. So you have to find out something that has the ability to force equity or add value, which she did. She found the structure and she built the adu. But here's the cool thing. When you do have this equity creation play or you buy into it with equity, you can now borrow against that equity to get the money that we're talking about here to improve the property. And it didn't have to come from your bank account, it could come from the lender because they lend to you based on equity and the equity of what it's going to be worth, not necessarily what it's worth today. So this is another example of a Florida investor who found a property who had the goggles to see the vision for the thing, who didn't just go into this mindless analyzation of properties and they just kept running it, trying to find the 1% rule over and over and over. They saw something other people missed and they added a lot of wealth to themselves in this one property. And now they can move on. Now because the property is going to cash flow with short term rental income, she'll be able to use a DSCR loan to refinance out of the hard money loan at 11 or 12% wherever it is, into a cheaper rate. Where are DSCR loans right now, Christian, as far as rates are concerned, pretty.
- [32:15]
B
Similar to conventional invest properties I'd say in the, in the lower to upper sevens depending on credit. So if you're a slamming 800 credit borrower, you're putting 25% down. We just closed one yesterday. 7.125 interest rate, pretty sweet. Even if you got a little bit lower credit, you might slide into the eights. But very, very competitive. And once again guys, that is a 30 year fixed. That's not an arm. That's not a, you know, a teaser rate, that's a 30 year fixed rate.
- [32:45]
A
Now wasn't there a period of time that you told me that our DSCR rates were actually lower than conventional?
- [32:51]
B
Yeah, at times right now, funny enough so that everybody's aware usually how the loans are kind of structured is primary residence. Let's just say that's a 6%. That usually means investment is 7%, about 1% difference and that usually means DCR is about 1% higher than that, about an 8% right now both conventional investment and DSCRs are like jockeying for position. There's been multiple days these last couple months where DSCR loans have been cheaper wild. That's never really happened in DSCR's product existence. Granted that's only been like five or six years now DSCR is a relatively new loan product in the grand scheme of things. But the fact that you can get a DSER loan even in the ballpark of what a conventional loan is is really kind of favorable for investors. That's banks saying we like your business, we want to lend you, we believe in real estate that supports itself and we want you to buy more. Right. As long as you come in with a down payment and you're buying a property that cash flows. It's really, really competitive rates considering where the rest of the market is right now.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, that's. I mean when I got into it DSCR loans were higher because they were a little bit. I mean conventional loans are always going to be the cheapest because they're in a sense insured. Maybe you could look at it like subsidized. It depends the perspective you have by the federal government. That's why the rates are so low. And DSCR loans would be like non QM loans or jumbo loans where investors don't have that safety net like that conventional lenders are going to get and in this case they can actually be lower, which is really really cool. So let's move into the last part of the brrrr. We've talked about the buy, we've talked about the rehab, the rent kind of speaks for itself. Let's talk about the refinance into the DSCR loan. Now what are some of the benefits of a DSCR loan compared to a conventional loan?
- [34:45]
B
So a big benefit of DSCR loans obviously is the lack of needing more documentation. I don't need tax returns, I don't need pay stubs. I don't need your 1099s or W2s which for those of us, David, you're probably the biggest offender of this where a conventional loan would be a nightmare. I do not want to run your tax returns. God help whoever poor soul is. Who needs whoever has to do that again. I have reviewed David's conventional loan application. It's not a good time.
- [35:12]
A
I'm imagining the schedule ease on my taxes look like a CVS receipt. It's just like it goes forever.
- [35:20]
B
Good Lord. I can only. Yeah, no, thank you. So that if you're in a position like David's, obviously you're a seasoned real estate investor or even a business owner where you have, you know, that's a great point.
- [35:29]
A
If you don't claim your taxes on a W2 format, if you're a 1099 operator, it's complicated and lenders don't like it. They, they look at you like you're not as safe. Right. If you own a plumbing business for whatever reason, you are riskier to them that if you work for a plumbing company and you just get a salary from that company so you can get higher rates on conventional loans when you're a business owner. And it can be a lobotomy to collect everything that's needed from those people to get them approved for a loan. Right?
- [35:59]
B
Absolutely, yeah, 100%. Now, a lot of banks will just tell you they don't work with business owners and self employed people. I know many, many of the top banks in the country just say, oh, if you're not W2, we don't want it. You can absolutely get a conventional loan. It's just work. Right. And there's a lot more things that can kill your loan than you know, the, the Facebook employee. Right. Or the, you know, the garbage truck guy. Right. Those are much, much, much easier loans to close. Doesn't mean yours are impossible. However, if you are in that realm, DSCR is a home run. You find a property that cash flows and you have the down payment and you tell me how you want to title the property and we're good. Right. Much, much, much smoother process. There is still underwriting. So I don't want to just pretend like there's nothing. But it pales in comparison to conventional. That's number one. Number two is kind of along the same lines if you are a business owner, David, as any business owners who are listening to this know, there's a lot of benefits that come with decreasing your taxable income. Right. Obviously the less and less money that you can make on paper, the more benefit, the more better you are off in terms of your tax liability. So you Guys can see kind of the arbitrage here. Where would you rather take the hit on your tax returns and pay that 20 to 50% tax rate, depending on what state you're in. Right. And report really high income and sacrifice all that tax liability in order to qualify for a conventional loan at a marginally better interest rate, or would you rather write that sucker off, get all of that, you know, tax write offs that you can on there, and really reduce your taxable income and have a slightly higher mortgage payment? Usually that makes sense for any business owners that are generating any significant revenue. Right. So these loan products are specifically catered. I call them like the tax code loan products. Like these lenders created these loan products because they know the tax code and they know the people who are more likely than not gonna have large amounts of assets or large amounts of experience. They're not gonna qualify conventionally because they're smart not to. Right. I always come back to that. The first debate with Trump and Hillary where she's like, he doesn't pay income tax. And he's like, of course I don't because I'm smart. You know, like, there's something to be said for that. Usually the people who achieve that level of wealth, like, they're broke on paper. Right. They got a big donut on their net taxable income if they.
- [38:27]
A
That doesn't mean they don't have money in the bank. But yeah, what the government is able to tax is much lower. And we're going to do a future episode on some of these tax strategies where I just break down and make it simple so that when you hear about a Robert Kiyosaki or a Donald Trump saying, I don't pay income tax, you understand exactly what they're doing and how it's not easy, but it is simple. When you understand how the a few tax rules work, you could put these together pretty simply. But like, you're saying, Christian, for people that do that, lenders may look at that and say, oh, you don't make any money. They're like, no, I make a million dollars a year. I just don't get taxed on it. But not every lender understands that. Right?
- [39:04]
B
That's right. That's right. 100. Especially lenders that, you know, a lot of, you know, larger lenders are usually set up with, you know, referral basis to like big companies, like, oh, this is our company lender. And like, they're used to seeing the same, like doctor or lawyer salary, you know, and that's like all they. And then they see, you know, the guy who owns, you know, a car dealership and a gas station and a real estate brokerage, and they're like, what are you doing? How do you own all this stuff and have all this money but don't make any, you know, income? And obviously that's not true, right? And they, they freeze and don't know what to do. If you're in this situation, obviously we're one of them. But specifically, seek out a broker that has access to these products that knows your situation, that can service you with loan products that make sense for you. Instead of just telling you what the bank would tell you, oh, next year, report your tax returns and just pay some ludicrous amount in taxes so we can qualify you for a conventional mortgage. Like, that's probably not going to be the best call, right?
- [40:02]
A
That's one of the reasons that when we started our company, we decided to be a mortgage broker as opposed to a retail lender. And one of the reasons that we tell everyone they should use mortgage brokers. Because when you go to a retail lender, you're likely to get a loan officer that says, hey, I know how to do this kind of loan. This is my cookie cutter thing. I can do this. If it falls outside of that, they either don't have anyone to teach them or they don't have experience having to figure out problems. It's like a mechanic that only works at the Honda shop, and they only do oil changes and tire rotations or something. When you bring them a BMW that's making a clicking sound, they have no diagnosis skills. They do not how to figure out, well, how would I fix this? And critically, think about it versus a mortgage broker. I mean, you're doing deals with how many different banks, Christian, that we have set up at the one brokerage I.
- [40:52]
B
Think last I actually counted it, it was like 580, something like that. It's a lot.
- [40:58]
A
So there are 580 potential partners that we have that will lend us their money to help our clients. You have to be able to diagnose all of these individual people's files and line them up with the right lender at the cheapest rate, at the best closing costs, with the fastest turn time. You're going to be good at doing this, which is why we have some of these products that other people don't talk about. So let's sum this up. If you are a small business owner, if you claim money, 1099, if you have a whole bunch of rental properties or a whole bunch of different businesses or if you have unconventional income that you earn. If you're not working a W2 job where you get a paycheck every two weeks, if you are a crab fisherman and you work five months out of the year and then you don't work the rest of the time or you're a seasonal firefighter, all of these can make the loan process like a root canal. Trying to get money versus a DSCR product is very straightforward because the lenders are just looking at what is the expense of the asset and what is the rental income of the asset. And let's make sure that the income is more than the expenses and we'll give you a loan. So let's explain like what it actually looks like in practical terms. When someone's done their renovation now if they want to sell it, it becomes a flip. We don't have to talk about that here. But they want to keep it and hold it. What are they going to have to give to you to get approved for a DSCR Lo options?
- [42:14]
B
So if you get it occupied prior to your loan submission, I need your lease agreement pretty straightforward. If it's vacant, one of two ways. You're either going to operate as long term rental or a short term rental. If it's a short term rental, I don't really need anything from you. I have my estimation tools I can use to determine what the market data provides. If it's a long term rental, we will determine the market rents on an appraisal. So I also don't need anything from you. So really the DSCR loan exiting a bridge purchase is super simple as long. This is the biggest thing. If you guys take anything away from this episode on Brrrrs, this is it. Do not get into the B unless you're ready for the R. Okay? So do not get into the bridge unless you're already approved and ready for the refinance. I can't tell you how many times, guys, this is where you get into a little bit of trouble. So many people go to a hard money lender or a bridge lender, they say get me my B Burr loan, no problem. Here you go. They have not given any thought to the DSCR loan to get you out. And that's because that bridge lender doesn't do DSCR loans. They just care. They don't care.
- [43:28]
A
It's your job to figure out how to sell that thing or how to refinance it.
- [43:32]
B
You can flip it, you can refi. We don't care. The problem with that though is that they're not giving any thought to. If you want to keep this property, can you finance it when you're done? Almost every day, guys. Almost every day. It, like, kills me. I get calls from people saying, I need a DSCR loan and I need it fast. And it always leads me asking, why? And they say, because I'm on a bridge loan. And I say, did. Did you review this property? Because it doesn't cash flow. And no, I didn't. The bridge lender told me it would, but they can't help me now. I'm like, yeah, that's. And if you get into a bridge loan and you can't get out of it, guys, the note is due. Like, they're gonna issue you a notice of default if you don't pay it. Like, you're. You're out of your contractual obligation now with the lender. So, like, you kind of just have to sell it. And if you ended up with one of these properties like David has or our other client that I referenced in Florida, and you got, like, a really good 1% plus cash flowing property, you don't want to sell that thing. You want to extract some equity, reimburse yourself and keep it in cash flow. Right? But you won't be able to do that unless you properly calculated all of your cards on the table prior to getting your bridge loan. Right. Plan your exit before you enter.
- [44:43]
A
So let's look at if you're actually doing a rehab here, right? Let's say that you say, I don't want to use a general contractor. I'm going to do it myself, finding my own contractor. So I found a subcontractor for floors, a subcontractor for paint, a subcontractor for cabinets, and a subcontractor for appliances. And then you go to the appliance guy and you say, hey, I got your bid. It looks good. And he says, can I install this week? And you say, yes. And then your painter says, hey, I want to start in a couple days. You say, sounds good. And then your flooring guy says, hey, I can start tomorrow. And you say, awesome. If you don't have experience as a general contractor, you don't realize the appliance guy can't put the appliances in like he thought because the floor guy's busy, and the painter can't paint because the appliance guy's in his way and the floor guy is in his way. All of these pieces that need needed to be actually thought out ahead of time and organized become chaotic, and they screw you up and your Timeline gets really bad. Now your painter takes another job, but he's not available for four weeks before you can come back and finish it. And your rehab gets out of hand. It's similar when you don't go to the mortgage broker who's going to do all of your loans and you just try to piece it together. That's really what I hear you saying. Christian, the hard money guy is getting paid based on getting you a hard money loan. They don't care what your exit strategy is. It is not their responsibility. They're not paid for that. So they do everything they can to put you in a contract and to get that loan closed. And if you even express concern, they're gonna be, I know you'll be fine. Yeah, this thing will cash flow. Of course they're gonna say that they don't care. It's not their name on the note. Versus, if you go to a company like ours that does all of your financing, the same person that sets you up on the DSCR loan is going to be doing your bridge that will say things like, well, what is it going to rent for? You better get me some examples of what the rent is going to be so I can approve that with the DSCR company before we get your financing for the bridge. Because we don't want to get stuck. That's what I hear you saying. And that is a great point that we've had investors come to us and they're like, hey, I did a bridge product with somebody else. I got a hard money loan with my buddy, and now I'm stuck and I don't know what to do. And we're like, why are you coming to us now? Why didn't you come to us in the beginning? Well, I thought I could piecemeal it together and it's just silly. People don't have to do that.
- [46:58]
B
And I can tell you guys, I've killed bridge deals. Once the eyes are opened on the exit loan, I've literally killed deals over it. Like, I've sold myself out of a loan in the best interest of the client. Now, obviously they come back once they find another property. But I'm like, hey, did you know that this property won't cash flow when you're done? Oh, what do you mean? Well, all of my market data is showing that it's not going to be a good buy and hold. Are you going to flip this? No, no, I want to hold it. I believe in, you know, real estate ownership. I'm gonna recommend a different house, my man. You know this property is not gonna work. Well, that's me literally selling myself out of a loan out of potentially two loans, knowing that exit strategy is not in the borrower's best interest. Right? And obviously that's in terms of building relationship and hopefully I get the next one from him. But a hard money loan is not gonna, a hard money lender, excuse me, is not gonna sell themselves out of a hard money loan there like hard money lenders, they're gonna close that thing no matter what. Like I don't care if you negatively cash flow your entire, you know, net worth a month. Like we're closing a hard money loan, right?
- [47:58]
A
Just like a buyer's agent isn't going to sell you out of buying a flip if they, if they think that, oh, you're never going to be able to sell it for what you paid, they don't care. They're getting their commission based off you buying. It's the listing agents problem. And if you're using two different agents to do that and they're not communicating with each other, you see how this can be an issue. Now there are in general two different tracks you can take on a DSCR loan. You've got traditional rent, like you said, a yearly lease that someone pays for long term rentals. And then we also do a lot of short term rental DSCR loans, which is not a lot of other lenders are able to do this. I believe that you put together one of the first programs in the country and one of the only ones that people can get short term rental income counted towards the income of the dscr, which in other words this property we talked about for our client earlier, she thinks that she's going to rent it for 1250amonth as a traditional rental, but she thinks she could get 2,500 if it was a short term rental. Now sometimes you can use short term rental income, sometimes you can't. Let's talk about when you're able to use short term rental income, what kind of comps you're looking at. Is there a different interest rate if people want to take that path, et cetera?
- [49:09]
B
That's a good question because DSCR loans like David said, we did kind of pseudo create this with a couple of our lending partners how to underwrite DSCR loans in specifically in terms of short term rentals. And the rule of thumb is typically you want to plan for across the board, usually an extra 5% down for short term rentals. So instead of 20, it's 25. Technically you could do 20. The pricing hit the interest rate just gets kind of high. So it's not necessarily an interest rate adjustment, it's a loan to value adjustment. Right. And to answer your second part of your question, how do we estimate rental income on these things? Multiple approaches. First one is if you're buying something that already operated as a short term rental, super easy, you just get the seller historicals, you get what the seller did, right? He was already doing an Airbnb. We know. If it wasn't a short term rental, which is more likely, you know, what's the likelihood that every house you buy is already operating as one? We can use Air DNA. If that's a foreign, foreign word to some of you guys, that's okay. But if any of you are familiar with short term rentals, I'm sure you've heard of it. But Air DNA is a property kind of, you know, collection tool where it is linked in with Airbnb and vrbo and it pulls data from what other properties in the area did over the last 12 months. And it generates a projection of what you could do, you know, on a pro forma basis. Right. Like assuming you operate like the average in the market, it kicks out a number for you. We can underwrite based on that. If the property is vacant and it didn't have history, and there's some rules, you know, we take a haircut for manage for management, whatnot. But the, the general rule is before we created this, everything was long term rental. So David, I always, when I'm talking to clients, I always use our cabin. You know, Pinnacle, for example. David and I bought a cabin. It was 1, 1.6 1.7 million purchase price, really awesome spot, indoor pool, movie theater, incredible spot lot. However, the appraiser came back and said this thing would long term rent for 2500amonth. What do you, what do you mean, my brother?
- [51:12]
A
Who's the Smoky Mountains to live in?
- [51:14]
B
Exactly. Who's gonna go. And that's exactly the case. Who's gonna go rent a long term 12 month lease in the Smokies? Nobody. So there's no comps. So he drove the market like through the floor. Well, David and I have rent that thing. I mean, some months it'll do 20k, 25k, other months it'll do 10. But I mean, we'll average, you know, double digits in terms of thousands of dollars a month in rent. Right. So I needed to generate a product that allows for that because there's no way we can underwrite that thing at 2,500 bucks a month. That's ludicrous. Right?
- [51:43]
A
Not accurate.
- [51:44]
B
So yeah, so we, we developed this. Air DNA is a good in between. If it's an existing short term rental, it's a good in between. At least we have avenues of attack for these things now when in the past and even a lot of DSCR lenders now, they don't have these tools. I mean just to give you a reference, we have probably 50 lenders in our network that specifically just do DSCR. Probably like eight of them except short term rental income. So it's still that rare. It's still the vast minority of lenders. Even though they say docr, dscr, dcr. Not all DSCR products are created the same. They're not like a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac production. These are individual institution by institution programs where it's literally just like a conglomerate of like bankers getting together and saying how do we want to underwrite these things? It's not Fanny. There's no government oversight of these things. Right. So DSCRs are not created equal.
- [52:37]
A
So, so what you're saying is Bob, in the bigger pockets Facebook group might say who does dscr? And someone refers Bob to Acme Mortgage and their preferred person and someone else ref Tom to Christian at the one brokerage. They're not the same products, they're not the same pricing and they, they're not going to underwrite it the same way. Correct?
- [53:01]
B
Correct.
- [53:02]
A
100 so, so when people hear DSCR, they should not assume it's like FHA. Whereas every single loan officer that does FHA loans operates under the same underwriting terms. And the only difference is how much they charge in closing costs and their rate because the more they charge, the more they get paid versus dscr. They could be incredibly different products. You might go to Christian and get a 7% interest rate where the other person can only do 8.25 and the closing costs are higher. But that's a steal for their lender versus the lender Christian has. They're like, well, you do 60 loans a month with us, so we'll give you better pricing for your clients.
- [53:36]
B
100% and even more so on top of just rate, DSCR loans are what are called exception heavy loans which like if you have a property that said any for any reason outside of the norm. David, I think if you're in Rob's property in Scottsdale, what is it, eight, nine acres, Something crazy, whatever, I forget what it was. But large acreage, right? Once again, 90, 95% of lenders would say, oh, too big. For us, we have like a 1 1/2, 2 acreage limit, right. We could go get that loan. Now if you went out and said to every lender, what's your DSCR rate? You'd probably just be told a lower interest rate. Oh, you're 8%, I can get you a seven and a half half. They would then go find out that it's a, you know, 8,000 square foot house on seven acres. And they say, oh, we're going to be at 875. Right. And that's where someone like me comes into play because I have to go out and you guys think this video is hard to follow. I'm following this with 500 lenders who does a rural property, who does a large acreage property, who allows for short term rental, who needs reserves, who can fund in an llc, who can do a log cabin, all of these things.
- [54:43]
A
Very such good points. Exception heavy. I mean, just for a practical example, I've bought properties. I'm thinking of the one in Blue Ridge, Georgia where I bought a cabin that had a big garage in it and I converted the garage into a second cabin. So it was like an awesome deal where I got two cabins for the price of one, basically. And then when I went to burr out of it into the short term rental loan, they said, oh, your cabin is too far away from other cabins. We can't loan on it. You're up that creek without a paddle. If you get to that point with a loan officer that doesn't have the options that we have at the one brokerage where we can go find somebody that would be able to finance that property. And you can never prepare for it unless you're buying a cookie cutter track home. You're probably not doing a short term rental loan if that's the case. So great point there, Christian. Let's sum up what we talked about so far. There are bridge products that are hard money loans that people can use to get into properties where they can force equity and hopefully they can buy some equity where they don't have to come out of pocket with a ton of money. People can expect anywhere from 10 to 20% down. And that's including the rehab costs, which is where the real value is. Rates are not nearly as high as what they used to be for hard money products. Once you finish your renovation, it can be very, very cheap to use this money even though it's at a higher rate if you're fast. So point number two is that speed is everything. You want to get in and you want to get out. And you want to be able to refinance out to get out of that hard money rate. You have DSCR options or conventional options. Talk to us and we'll let you know which one would be making more sense for you. But the idea is you don't want to wait until your rehab is done and then try to figure out what loan to get into. Because if you hit problems it extends how long you're paying that higher rate. You want to use the same loan officer to do both your hard money loan and your exit refinance loan. So they can, if it's a conventional loan, they're collecting all of your personal documents, they're getting your bank stubs, they're getting your W2. And if it's a DSCR loan, they're checking comps ahead of time so that as soon as it's done they're ready to pull the trigger and submit that loan for whatever your refinance is to keep the amount of money you're paying at hard money rates low. And then they have a lot of really amazing products. You know we didn't mention this but DSCR loans are 30 year fixed rates rate. These used to be like 5 year balloons and 20 year amortization rates. They were much more expensive when you got away from conventional. Now you've got options that are basically competitive with conventional but so much easier to get. So there you have it folks. Brrrrs are possible, refinancing is possible, the 1% rule is possible. And short term rentals can be financed in ways that traditional rentals used to be. We hope you enjoyed today's show, Christian. I'm sure there's going to be a ton of people they want to pick that big brain of yours. Where is the best place for people to go to get a hold of you and see how you could help them with their financing?
- [57:35]
B
Absolutely. Best way to get me, you find me on instagram at the one broker. Obviously the broker of the one brokerage. Our website is the one brokerage.com and if you ever just want to get me personally guys, my email is Christian just spelled like my name@the1brokerage.com all spelled out. That's a direct email that goes straight to me. Any of those three ways works for me.
- [57:58]
A
So Christian, the one brokers.com you can email them direct or you can check out our company's website, the1brokerage.com but no matter if it's Christian or if you already have a different loan officer at the One Brokerage make sure you ask what products are available outside of just conventional financing. And today's quick tip is going to be very simple. You don't have to get an FHA loan to get a low down payment rate. Long story short, we'll do another episode on this in the future, but we can get you 3% down instead of 3.5% down and have mortgage insurance that drops off the loan instead of stays on forever. So don't assume that FHA loans are required when you're buying a primary residence if you want a low down payment. I'm David Green, he's Christian Bachelder. We are the one brokerage and this is Real Talk Real Estate where we pull back the curtain and let you know what really goes on in the world of real estate. So if you've ever wondered how our financing Conversations conversations go or what we do to help our clients, hopefully have a little bit of a better idea if you would do me a huge favor and make sure you subscribe to this episode. Wherever you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple podcasts and leave me a positive review, I would love it. Christian, thanks for joining me today. We will see you in the future. Have a good one, my man.
- [59:09]
B
Absolutely appreciate you having me. David.