In Part 2 of our conversation with Lillian Daniel, we move deeper into the tensions at the heart of her story—and the bigger questions it raises for the modern church.

If Part 1 explored what happened, this episode asks what it means.

We talk about accountability, institutional systems, and whether the church is actually capable of handling failure in a way that leads to healing rather than harm.

📚 About Lillian Daniel

Lillian Daniel is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and currently serves as a Conference Minister, overseeing churches and clergy across Michigan.

She has taught preaching at institutions including Yale Divinity School and the University of Chicago, and is the author of multiple books on faith, ministry, and the evolving role of the church.

Her latest book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, explores her own experience with discipline, failure, and restoration—and what it reveals about the systems meant to hold leaders accountable.

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Ep. 237 - Lillian Daniels "Failure, Accountability & the Future of the Church" pt. 2