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The Deep Dish
Don't Take a Vacation from Spiritual Growth
00:43:16
Courtney and Melissa discuss the importance of pursuing spiritual growth during the summer, despite disrupted routines.
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For centuries, Alexandria shaped how the church read Scripture, confessed Christ, and engaged the world. It was from this city that Athanasius and Cyril defended the faith, reading scripture according to its own logic, articulating the faith with clarity, and equipping others to do the same. The Alexandrian Institute continues this legacy world class theological education rooted in the great tradition. The we offer rigorous pathways at every level from The Pew to PhD pillars, certificates for those beginning their journey, accredited master's degrees with personal mentorship in theology and theological ethics, and a PhD research program for aspiring scholars. Whether you are seeking deeper theological grounding, preparing for ministry, or pursuing advanced scholarship, we would love to explore how the Alexandrian Institute might equip you for your calling. Start the conversation@alexandrianinstitute.org.
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Learn how Jesus and the Apostles read the Old Testament with your new Go to Biblical Theology Guide developed by leading biblical theology scholars G.K. beale and Benjamin Glad. The CSB Connecting Scripture New Testament helps all students of the Word better grasp Scripture's overarching redemption story and parallels within the New Testament and promotes the underlying unity of Scripture connections between Old Testament and New Testament books. Learn more@connectingscripture.com if you're in a weekly Bible study year after year after year, fall and spring, and it's not resulting in missional living. If it's not resulting, the Bible study is not the end game. It serves the end game. And the end game is to join God on mission. And we have to know His Word in order to live according to His Word in order to accurately share the truth of the Gospel. Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Docter and I am here with my friend and co host Melissa Krueger and we are excited for this conversation at the start of summer.
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A
Yeah. Is there anything you're excited about summer before we begin?
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B
Oh, well, first of all, I mean we're heading into the conference so I am super excited about that.
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A
I can what conference are you talking about, Courtney? When is it? Because you know, I don't remember these two. I know, I know.
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B
Thank goodness you have a calendar. She you will show up, right? So TGCW 26 and June 11th through 13th in Indianapolis, Indiana. Join us. Oh my gosh, we're going to have so much fun being in person together with thousands of women from literally around the world.
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Yes. And you can still register, you can still come. So make a spur of the moment decision and come and join us in person. And we're Doing a deep dish live there so they can actually be in the room where it happens. Because they can see if we could
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B
sing, we could sing that song, but we can't. Yeah, but Nancy and Jen are joining us. So they'll make us look different. They'll make us look like we know what we're talking about.
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A
I know, I know. We'll try to look professional there. We'll try. Okay. Well, today we are going to talk about how to continue to pursue spiritual growth over the summer months, which can be really tough because I think our routines get shaken up. You know, schedules shift and many Bible studies and community groups, they break for the summer. So all of that can kind of lead to stagnation or just, oh, my goodness, it's been three days and I haven't even opened my Bible. Yeah, I mean, this can just happen during the summer. And in some ways we might think I'm just gonna wait until fall. Well, we want to talk today about how can we not put that in our mindset, not wait till fall, but how can we use summers to really, really grow spiritually? But let me ask you first, how does your life change in summer? You know, does it change much? What does it look like?
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B
You know, less so now that the kids are no longer in the house? I mean, obviously when the kids were home, that was a huge, huge change in the summer and routines would change. But I would say even now, I mean, just the fact that we have longer and, you know, I think of summer as a time of like creating more space for people and doing more things outside. So it does change. And then we do a family vacation every summer. And so, yeah, there are some rhythms that kind of get, you know, changed up in the summer. What about you?
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A
Yeah, mine changed some because I still have kids in college, so they sometimes still come home. But sometimes it's like half the summer, sometimes it's two weeks in the summer. So it's a little bit different. But I would say actually because of the conference, I feel full on as normal, maybe even a little fuller than normal up through the conference. I mean, honestly, that that has really changed. I would say both you and I, you know, as we think about rhythms and then we do try to take some sort of vacation in the summer. But I'm with you. I love the longer days and going for walks after work. Whereas sometimes during the winter, you know, I'm like, oh, it's so dark. There's no way I'm going for a walk at 6pm you know, whereas summer, it Is nice. And you know that that's always fun. Okay. One thing I love in the summer is vacations. And that allows us to take time away from work, which is mentally really good. And it gives us time to spend with people. You, you would think that time away would give us more time to spend praying and reading the word, but has that been your experience? Tell me, you know, are you all spir on vacation?
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B
I always think the same thing, like this is going to be idyllic. I've got slower mornings, I can just sit, you know, outside or, you know, just enjoy my time with the Lord. But I get out. What happens for me is I just get out of a rhythm. You know, we've talked about like practices of prayer before on here. And one of the things that we mentioned was this idea of having like a place and a time so that you really don't even think about it. It's just part of your daily rhythm. Well, me, when that shifts and I'm no longer, you know, I don't have access to my place. I have a chair where I, where I usually read and pray in the mornings. And I just, I don't know, I get out of the rhythm of exercise. I get out of the rhythm of, of my time in the Word. I mean, it's just into the rhythm
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A
of ice cream every night because that feels normal on vacation.
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B
Very quickly, very quickly I can get into that rhythm. So it's just amazing. And I'm always so frustrated with myself because. Okay, so just along, I mean, what about you? What about on vacations with you? What do you do? Are you really disciplined?
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A
Yeah. Well, it's funny because the kids sometimes sleep in. I can, I have a little screened in porch at the beach place we go to.
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B
So.
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Sh. The mental has shift. You know, you can't take your chair on vacation with you, but I could, I can go on that porch and feel alone.
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B
But when.
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A
What happens is I never know. It's like little kids again. You never know when you're gonna be interrupted. And I wanna be available because I don't get my kids around much anymore. So it's more like, oh, if they're up and they say, let's go for a bike ride. I'm like, yeah, let's go for a bike ride. So it feels very hit or miss when the space is gonna be available. And so I do think it's difficult. And you have this too. We both have places we go back to regularly, so I think you can create a little bit of that. Oh, this is where I get that space. But I think it's really hard when you're vacationing in a new spot or,
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B
you know, you're going to point. But I'm just as bad in my regular spot. You know, you and I have been like, we've been in places like where we've taken trips together, and you are really diligent about that. The number of times I've woken up and you've just been in your PJs with a cup of tea and out with your Bible reading. And yeah, you are actually really diligent about that. And I'm like, oh, I'm on vacation. I don't even know if I brought my Bible.
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A
No, you're good about bring your Bible. I'm kind of terrible about that. I'm like, it's kind of heavy. It's like the shoes or the Bible. It's terrible. And I'm like, I can get it on my phone. But that's an interesting question. One thing I will say that helps me. This is gonna sound. I do have different things I do on vacation. So, you know me, I love daily light. And that's. But that's not hard to carry in my bag with me. Like, even when I'm traveling for speaking or something, it's really easy to come along. And it's not long, but it does help me settle and just hear the word of the Lord for a little bit. And so that's another thing. I think on vacation, I'm rarely doing intense Bible study. I don't know about you. I mean, like, true. You know, like, oh, let's look up the Hebrew word for that. I mean, that's. That's just not often happening.
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But.
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But it is good for me to have the Word in my heart at some point. I mean, it could be read a Sama Day on your vacation, you know, I mean, it could be something simple, like, so it could look different. But it is so good to be reminded, because then I'm like, well, man, I was not nice to my people yesterday.
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Right.
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And I need to confess. Yeah.
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B
And that's, you know, like, the spiritual battles that we face, right. They don't stop in the summer. And so all these same things, these things that, you know, that we need the Word to instruct and convict and rebuke and train us in righteousness. We need it in the summer. We need it on vacation. And I think the other thing is, because we are gone a lot, and sometimes churches do different rhythms in the summer that our community Our church community might look a little bit different. I know during the summer, you know, different people are on vacation at different times. And so even just your church family can look a little bit different during the summer. And so not just in the word, which is obviously primary, but this idea of our spiritual family, our spiritual community. What are some ways that we can continue in community in our church families or in the family of God during the summer when we're a little bit more scattered, we're not running into everybody in the carpool line, or we're not seeing everybody. You know, they're gone on vacation, and then we're gone on vacation. What are some ways that we can prioritize and stay in spiritual community during the summer?
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A
Well, I think one thing, and I know you would say this too, is go to church still. You'll still see some people who you'll see. And I think it's great on vacation to go to church. That was a really formative thing for my kids to see different churches. So I think feel like when they got out of my home, they did have experiences out of their home church, and that's good for them to have seen. One thing. I love that our women's director. Hey, Ashley. Because Ashley listens to us. So that she's doing this summer, she's doing some mentoring. Who starts a mentoring program in the summer? No one. But what she's doing, I think is so smart. She's actually using our Discipline of Devotion series. I'm holding up one right now. This is the worship one from Emily Jensen. Because these are just three chapters long. They're so short. And so she's actually gonna put, like, little groups together of an older woman and three to four younger women. And they just have to meet three times. So it's not a big Bible study that she has to organize. They can do it when it works for them, but it keeps and builds community over the summer, all on one topic. It's not hard. And three times, and it's not on everyone in the church calendar schedule. It's just those four women figuring out a time to meet now. It's like, that's a great idea, you know, so that. Yeah.
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B
What.
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What about you? Have you seen good ideas? What do you do during the summer? Do you have any personal ways you dig in?
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Yeah, yeah. One thing we did last summer, and it was so fun. I have two friends here. Hey, Emily. Hey, Becca. Since we're calling things out and we wanted to do something together over.
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A
We have other friends. We have real friends.
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B
Real life friends. And we wanted to do something, and we. It got. This part's a little bit funny, but we decided to do a podcast discussion group where we would. The whole group would listen to a podcast, and then we would come together and discuss it. And when I said yes, I think I thought we were going to use kind of a variety of podcasts, but we use the Deep dish every week. But I'll tell you what was so sweet about it is, you know, you and I start these conversations, and I love, like, this part of the conversation, but what it allowed me in particular to do was then step into a room of women and continue the conversation. And that was so fun to be able to do that. So that was, you know, the only work anybody had to do between meetings was listen to a podcast. And so it was really.
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A
That's a great idea.
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Yeah, it wasn't that fun. I know.
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A
I love that. So, I mean, because then it's like, over the next week, listen to the Deep Dish. Cause and if y' all don't know, we have questions every. Every two weeks to go with these. So you could go back six months and pick up whichever ones you want that have been done. I love that ideas so much, you know, because it's just great for a summer. Cause it doesn't have to end.
- [14:04]
B
One of the women was. Her husband is the pastor of the church where a lot of these women go. And she was able to pick topics that, like, she could kind of just pick and choose the episodes. I think we did six over the summer. She could pick and choose the topics that we listened to that were really kind of specific for their church that she wanted that group of women to be listening to. So it was a ton of fun.
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That's good. Because you know what? I could probably go back and listen to some.
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B
Oh, my gosh. Right?
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A
I don't remember we said that. That's so interesting.
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B
Well, like, some of our guests, you know, Becky Pippard on evangelism and Lisa Whittle on Theology of the Body, and Vanessa on the reliability of scripture. Like, you just think about. I mean, some of our guests have just been so, like, we say all the time, we're learning in real time when we have these conversations. So it would be fun to go back and listen to those.
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A
Well, one topic, I don't know if we've talked about this yet. Maybe we have. This is forgetful Brain, Melissa, is scripture memory, which I think can be great over the summer, but you kind of have to plan for it. I Had a friend one year, she did this in our church. We picked five passages of scripture and they were big chunks, maybe 10 to 12 verses. And the whole summer Bible study was this. Memorize the passage and then we'll meet the next week. And what we did was we each person paired off with one person, and you said the whole passage, which was a great consequence.
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So I would say to you, accountability.
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Yeah. And then the Bible study was. We talked about what we had learned while memorizing it. Like, how did the act of memorizing it make us pick up on certain words? Like how, you know, on day four of memorizing it, why did we think differently about the text? It was so rich because everyone had really been in the text all week. And I was like, that was great. And if you missed a week, you missed a week. They weren't, they weren't building on one another. But I thought that was such a creative idea. Do you have any good tips on scripture memory?
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B
Well, and just before I say that, I would say, because that's really taking the word and going from studying it to really hiding it in your heart and meditating on it. Like, it's that whole process of, of, you know, really just like ingesting the Word. And so that is such a great idea. I love that. I, you know, I just pilfer tips from everybody else. Um, you know, back in the day, I used to just carry the little car, you know, three by five cards, index cards, and, and I would just go through them. Do you remember back in the day, the navigators? And they had the whole, like, certain verses that you were to memorize, right?
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Yes. That's where I started memorizing.
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Me too. Me too. Well, actually, I started with. Is it Ephesians 4, 29. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only what is edifying to others according to their needs, that it may benefit all who listen. So that would have been in the NIV back in the day. Right. That was kind of the first verse that I memorized. And anyway, but tips and tricks, I think, carrying it with you so that you kind of always have it in front of you. What works for my brain is to remove some of the words or to then get down to just the first letter of each word. Like, I have to use little tips and tricks. You know, Hunter Bilas and I wrote a Bible study together. And she, she raps.
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A
She is the verse Bible memory queen. Yes.
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And she would send me these, you know, these raps of the Whole passages that we were memorizing and it was so fun. And then we tried to do it you. And of course she was much cooler than me in trying to rap a Bible verse.
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A
But she can handle that and do it. And I think that's so good that putting it to music. And I would say. And that just reminds me like another great way. If you are a mom and your kids are all home and you think, oh, I don't have time to get in the work because now they're home all day long. One thing you can do is memorize it with them. That can be part of your daily routine. In fact, I thought of this when I was thinking about this to today. I. I used to print up on. And what I did. I did it at the beginning of the summer. So this is my tip mom tip. Print em up at the beginning of the summer. I made just now. Everything's so much cuter, you know. Right. I was dealing with like we had clip art.
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B
We had clip art.
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A
I was dealing with clip art. You can.
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B
If I center justified something. I was like, look at me center justifying.
- [18:52]
A
I won't even show what I used to do because it's so ugly. But what I will say. And I have. I realized in Walking with God in the season of the Motherhood. This was a Bible study I wrote years ago. In the back I had exactly what I put on those cards. So it'd be like the word forgiveness and forgive to stop feeling angry at someone for a wrong he or she did or. Yeah, like I'd give the definition. What's the opposite? What's the memory verse? Biblical example. So it's actually taught kids Christian words as we're doing Bible memory and things they're gonna have to put in practice with siblings. That was normally the whole purpose.
- [19:25]
B
So good. Right.
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A
But in doing that, I was learning the passage too. So it doesn't have to be something you don't do with others, I guess is my point. Like it can be done in the community of your time with your kids at home. And I mean, there are now about a thousand songs that you can sing putting God's word in your heart. And I gotta admit, sometimes those get in and they can't get out. Like I had a jingle. Do everything without arguing and complaining in my head. And I was like, I am complaining about the song that's jingling in my head.
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B
Insane.
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Do everything without arguing complaint. But those are just great ways. And they're. I would say they're pretty simple ways to get it in, you know, it doesn't take a big lift. Well, let me ask this because we've both been in this position women's ministry leaders and you know, they're kind of pulling their hair out because they want their women to stay in the word. They want them to connect. But so and so's on vacation this week, so and so's on vacation that week. Should she throw her hands up? Is there any hope? What can she do? What are some good ideas we could help give for how a women's, a person who's actually running a women's ministry to, to help her women connect and get in God's word and pray and all that over the summer.
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B
Yeah, I know when I was on staff I would. We picked like intentional studies that were shorter and we, and maybe didn't have, you didn't have to show up every week. And so I know like you and I have written one that we think is a great summer study. We wrote remember, what's the name of it? Remember your joy and it's seven salvation stories in the Old Testament. And the reason that's a good study to use in the summer is because if you miss a week because you're on vacation, you're not moving through a book of the Bible. And so it's a good summer study. The other thing that we would do is we would move into homes and try to turn them into neighborhood Bible studies. Because a lot of women are, you know, maybe more open to that in the summer. Like hey, come over in the evening. We could start at 7 o' clock after you put kids to bed. Or it's a little bit, you know, easier to get out of the house on a summer night. We're gonna sit outside or we're gonna sit inside. We're going to, you know, have some fun sn and have a Bible study. So it's a great way to have a neighborhood Bible study. And it just kind of mixes it up a little bit. Takes a little bit of the pressure off of the women's ministry leader. I think it's helpful to provide enough like structure for women to say, hey, these are, you know, you could do a five week study and be every other week or you could do a six week study and do every week and you know, giving some. And then here are some studies that you can, you can use. But I think just mixing it up a little bit, maybe take it outside if you can. If you, if you're not having your women go into their neighborhoods, meet at the church and do it outside. Do something that just kind of changes it up. What about you, when you were on staff or ideas that you've seen since then?
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A
Yeah, that's a good. You know, of course, I'm sitting over here ideating right now, because that's.
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B
I know you are.
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A
And I might.
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I know you are.
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Cause I was just thinking one thing. You. I think just providing a space for women to get together is really important, so you could just plan some events. And I think one thing that can be helpful is to use the summer, maybe have different women in the church share their testimony. It's a great way, you know, to learn about. You know, that older woman who. Who looks like she never. She's known Jesus her whole life. And then you hear her story and you're like, not Betty Sue. She.
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No.
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You know, like, she didn't come to Jesus till she was 40. Who knew, you know, or whatever. And to get to hear. Because I think that can foster relational connection and. And maybe you have one woman share hers with the whole group. In small groups, you help people learn how to share. How did they come to faith? I think you could do topic nights. Okay, we're gonna come and we're gonna have two discussion nights talking about a topic where we just come together and it's social and we have good food out. And then everyone's gonna break into random small groups, and we talk about, you know, something like we talk on Deep Dish, but maybe something that's not as. As, you know, as clear in Scripture, but you wrestle through it together. And I think that can be a really good place to just have conversations about things. And so I do think. I like what you said, switching it up, you know, making sure in the year we're really doing good Bible study. I mean, you know, you and I are both so for that. But that during the summer, you can maybe. And I know we produced Fruitful a few years ago, which were devotionals, and we encourage people to get together and talk about it. It was on the Fruit of the Spirit. That's an easy one, because if you miss one of them, you can still talk about the others.
- [24:28]
B
If you miss Joy, you can still show up for kindness. Yep, exactly. Do you remember in that we provided recipes that each fruit. Like, there was a fruit recipe for each one? Like I did. I think I did my grandmother's peach pie.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so that's a fun thing. Like, you could. You could have somebody bring that particular recipe every time. We're all. I've the common thread here. You know we're all about the food. The name of the podcast is On a Pizza. We're trying to figure out how we can gather for food. But it's very biblical because man does not live by bread alone. But on every word that comes from
- [25:08]
A
the Bible, there's a lot of feasts. There's a lot of feasts. Study all the feasts of the Bible and eat food while you do it. That's another one. Okay, there we go. Well, we probably need to take an ad break for just a minute to hear from our sponsors and then we will be back to talk about what we're doing this summer. So thanks for listening.
- [25:31]
B
Young people entering college or the workplace are often the most vulnerable to deconstruction and walking away from the faith of their childhood. It's a well trodden path. So we need a plan. Effective youth ministry, teaching young people the Bible in a way that equips them to follow Jesus and cherish his word for the rest of their lives takes a whole church. In a new practical seven week cohort by tgc, experienced leadership will help you to think about youth culture and your local church context. We'll discuss a gospel centered philosophy for student discipleship that will help you strategically lead students and families in a way that sets them up for a sustainable faith when inevitable challenges come. Find out more@tgc.org cohorts that's tgc.org cohorts. This episode of the Deep Dish is brought to you by Cozy Earth. And Melissa, you and I have become borderline obsessed with all things cozy Earth. Their sheets, their pajamas, their robes. But now there is a new outfit.
- [26:34]
A
I know, and I'm pretty excited about this one because somehow it's what you can wear all day long. And if you even want to wear it at night, to bed, you probably could, but it's great for morning coffee, school pickup, different errands. It's so cute. Tell us a little bit more about it.
- [26:51]
B
Yeah, it's called, it's Cozy Earth's brushed bamboo jogger set. And it's made from viscose from bamboo. And so it's really soft, breathable, comfortable. It's kind of that like, like you said I could wear it 24 7.
- [27:04]
A
And to go along with the new jogger set, one thing that we both love are these new clogs. They're kind of the same idea for your feet. They're easy to slip on. They're supportive enough if you're standing at the kitchen, but they're just cozy enough to Forget that you're wearing them as you go through your day.
- [27:19]
B
They are fantastic. And the thing I love about Cozy Earth as I've kind of gotten to know their products is not only do I love them, but they know they're great because listen to what they offer. They offer a 100 night trial and a 10 year warranty. So the pieces that they're making are pieces that are made, made to last.
- [27:38]
A
So if you'd like to see some of these different products, go to cozyearth.com and use the code deep dish for 20% off. And if you see a post purchase survey, let them know you heard about Cozy Earth on the Deep Dish. Welcome back. We're so glad you're here. Here's a question, Courtney. What does fulfilling the Great Commission look like over the summer? I think sometimes we don't just take a break from, you know, our Bible reading or our personal disciplines. We kind of take a break from, oh yeah, there's all these people in the world who need Jesus and we're kind of like, oh yeah, I'll do that in September. So how, how can we put this at the forefront of our minds even as we go into summers that might feel strangely busier, even though they're more relaxed. What are the opportunities of summer? Let me ask you that.
- [28:32]
B
Well, I think it's an important question because for two reasons. One, so that we can actually talk about the ways that this can happen. But to step back and say, if you're in a weekly Bible study year after year after year, fall and spring, and it's not resulting in missional living, if it's not resulting, the Bible study is not the end game. It serves the end game. And the end game is to join God on mission. And we have to know His Word in order to live according to His Word, in order to accurately share the truth of the gospel. And so Bible study serves that. So even just a little plug for if we're not incorporating missional living in our, in our lives, then, then we're, we're missing it. Um, but I think, I love the idea of thinking about it strategically in the summer. So summer is a great time to do things. If you're in a neighborhood, um, you know, set up a table with ice cream sandwiches and have neighbors stop by, like start building relationships. So there's a ton you can do for relational, like building relationships. Have more of your neighbors over for, you know, grill out or, or do a pot or, you know, have every bit everybody bring like a part of a salad and, you know, just start building the relationships because that's key too. But I think the idea of then moving towards conversations that lead to the Gospel, that's really important. And so how do you do that? What are some ways you can set that up? And I do think neighborhood Bible studies are a great way to do this. There is. There were two summers when I was on staff at a church in St. Louis that I said, we're not doing Bible study where I'd done kind of those short studies before. He said, we're actually not doing Bible study at church this summer. But instead I am going to provide each of you with up to 10 pre printed invitations that you would then fill in the information. And the challenge was you go put those in your neighbor's door, your neighbor's mailbox, and invite them to a discussion group. You know, we're going to read this book and we're going to have a discussion around it. And so that is less intimidating, you know, than a Bible study. But then you pick your book accordingly. And it could be. It could be a popular level book that would lead to some rich discussions or you could even push it a little further. And, you know, I wrote a book called From Garden to Glory for just that purpose, like 10 weeks with discussion questions at the end. That kind of can spur some questions and some good conversations about what the Bible is and how it holds together. But I think there are these ways that if we just set our mind on being creative and moving, whether it's into our workplace or into our neighborhoods, that summer is just because the days are longer, because people's routines are different. I just feel like they're more willing to enter in. And then the only other thing I would say is if your church or some church in your community offers VBS, invite unbelieving kids to those VBSs. Because what parent doesn't want to break for a week? What parent's not going to be like, hey, that sounds great. They're going to do crafts, get a snack, feel like I'm doing this church
- [31:56]
A
that week in June, the next week is this, what, how great.
- [32:00]
B
And then pray that the kids are like, that church was awesome. I want to go back there. But I mean, VVS is a great place to reach out and invite neighbors and friends in and volunteer.
- [32:11]
A
Because I think sometimes we think evangelism is only peer to peer. Man, what an opportunity that you have to share the gospel with kids in your neighborhood just by being a welcoming home. You know, just like letting your home be the one that can get trashed and you're just like. And they will remember the warmth of being in your home. Yeah. When you put up the, a cheap plastic pool in your backyard with the sprinkler. Let's go old school 80s style and just like let them run around. And then I mean just taking that opportunity and maybe even doing a kids Bible study in your backyard.
- [32:49]
B
Exactly. And have the snacks. Just so we stay on brand. Have the snacks.
- [32:53]
A
Yes. And order pizza. And a lot of parents, I mean you talk about a real opportunity. You know, if you said, hey, I'm gonna do this little Bible lesson thing from 4 to 6, we're gonna have the Bible lesson from 4 to 5 and then have pizza after. You know, I mean who's not gonna let their kid go to that? And so I think there are ways that, and, and those are just things I think really can get in kids hearts. And later on, you know, they, they just. It might make them one day feel comfortable to walk into a church. Church. It might make them tell their parents, hey, I want to go to that lady's church. And that's many, many families come to faith because the kids came to faith. And so it's a real opportunity for that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that actually that feels like
- [33:42]
B
if your testimony involves a VBS or a children's Bible camp or a neighborhood study, pop it in the show notes. We want to hear that. That's. We do hear those, don't we? They're just amazing. A neighbor invited me to vbs. Yes. Or a neighbor invited my children. And then I started going like, it's just. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible.
- [34:00]
A
Well, let me ask Michael Graham, can I. Yeah. Michael Graham are our fact. Or Michael Graham who knows all things, not knows all.
- [34:07]
B
Yes.
- [34:07]
A
That's a little heretical. Sorry. Not true. Michael Graham, who does a lot of research and knows a lot of data. One thing he'll say is like most, I mean, and I think we've seen this lived out. Most people who come to faith. Faith not do come. You know, in the earlier years of their life they're introduced to faith young. So that's a real opportunity. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be reaching out to our 80 year old neighbor. 100% do that too. But a lot of time exposure that happens young leads to a lot. A lifetime of fruit later. So just a, just a good option. So another idea, one because we'd love to see you there is to come to TGCW 26 this summer. It and I actually, actually Think of it as a springboard of spiritual growth. You just get to come, you get to just receive, you get to take in the talks. But you know, we even have a Bible study that goes with the conference. So you could do that this summer. That'd be an easy way to take what you learn from the conference. But you can also listen to all the conference material all summer. So all the sessions you didn't get to go to, you could have time to listen to those, you know, week to week on your walks or whatever you're doing during the summer.
- [35:18]
B
That's so good. I didn't, you know, we didn't even mention Turn your Eyes and Turn youn Eyes is a Bible study that works through the Psalms. And so again, you don't have to show up every week. Actually, our last three conferences, Remember your Joy, Behold and Believe and Turn youn Eyes, all have Bible studies that are great for the summer for that exact reason. They're not just moving through a book. And so any of those would be a great resource for a summer Bible study study. So I want to like go back to not just outreach, but being in the Word and growing spiritually. And so we've mentioned a couple resources that we would recommend. But is there anything recommend to our listeners to help them be intentional about being in the Word growing spiritually during the summer? Are there any that you would add to the things that we've already mentioned? I know we've mentioned, like do a discussion group on the deep Dish, the Remember your Joy Bible study, the fruitful study that we put out a few years ago. You mentioned one of the disciplines of Devotion series. But there's six. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:24]
A
They cover a wide variety of topics. Here's the other thing. Most of those we talked about in community. I also just want to say we are responsible for our own spiritual growth at some level. I think, you know, you could actually by Courtney. Courtney's got a great study on Romans. You could buy it and work through it and watch the videos.
- [36:44]
B
I mean, you know, you don't have
- [36:45]
A
to take a break in some. Cause then you're on your own schedule. Maybe you. Yeah, maybe when you're on vacation that week you don't do it. But I do think, you know, I did a lot of Kay Arthur studies just on my own. Nobody was doing them with me. It was just my way to keep growing spiritually. So. So there is some sense where you could just do that or I would even say if you feel intimidated with your neighbors, like you can't Teach, I just want to say that's a great place to use a video study. Say, hey, I'm going to work through this. Come watch it with me on whatever night. And, you know, then. Then you can be like, yeah, I didn't agree with what Courtnee said. Neither did I. I mean, you can use the.
- [37:27]
B
You can.
- [37:27]
A
You can use her as the problem, but it's just. It's a great opportunity. So there are studies like that that I think. Don't think you can't, because you're not doing it at your church. Can everyone hear Gus barking? Okay, Gus is barking. Hey, Gus. Sorry, Gus.
- [37:50]
B
See, Gus? I can hear him. He just wants to be on the deep dish. We need to invite him on the deep dish.
- [37:56]
A
I'm probably getting a package is what that means. Beads.
- [37:59]
B
Yay. That's very fun. Okay. I love that. So, going back to your K. Arthur studies that you did on your own, did you listen to cassette tapes? Because I did. You know about the cassette tapes? Yeah. And it was like in a. In a big plastic thing, and you'd open it and then pull. You know, you'd work through it and pull the cassette tapes out.
- [38:17]
A
Huh.
- [38:19]
B
I had a fancy. I was a modern fancy.
- [38:22]
A
I was modern enough to get videos.
- [38:24]
B
Courtney, that's amazing. Did you actually have a. On, like, CDs or DVD? Sorry, DVDs.
- [38:30]
A
That's a good question. When I was doing. I did her Lord series on my own, and I don't think those had video. Like, Lord, I need grace to make it. Lord, where are you when things. I don't think those have videos. When I did the precept, I was always at a church, so I bet they had. I bet they had vhs. You're right. I bet they did.
- [38:49]
B
Anyway, we just love to age ourselves. Okay. You're so sweet to mention one of my studies. I feel like we've been. We've been popping each other's, like, books and studies in here. We don't normally do that, but this particular, like, we're obviously more familiar with our resources. And so this particular episode does seem to have a lot of our own recommendations. But I'm just going to throw one back to you because in the summer, the book you wrote, Growing Together, is a great one to grab another woman and say, hey, let's just take the summer and work through this book. It is. And grab two other women and do it. So, yeah, I think that that is a great way to continue both your own spiritual growth, but growth within a community of believers. And you're actually building that community out. We had mentioned that.
- [39:40]
A
Do you have any books you would say, hey, read this with just a friend this summer?
- [39:43]
B
I mean, the Pursuit of God by Tozer. I mean, that's just like those old classics. I mean, I would say, go back and. Any Tozer, any Packer, any. You know, these are just. They're just a little bit before our time. And they're so good. They have stood the test of time. They deeply root your faith. I mean, they're just fantastic. So any of those, we would.
- [40:12]
A
Okay, I want to do a whole episode on old books, and we just talk for, like, five minutes about each book and why we loved it. I want to do an episode on that and, like, create like a summer fun reading list or something. That'd be fun.
- [40:25]
B
Okay, that would be so fun.
- [40:27]
A
Yeah, let's do that. And then we can hear from everybody else.
- [40:30]
B
I know.
- [40:32]
A
See, I can't remember your name, but I can ideate.
- [40:35]
B
I know. All day long. All day long. Okay, well, I want to go back and remind ourselves why. Why we care about this. Why does it matter that we are intentional about growing spiritually over the summer? You know, I think a lot of us, it's like, well, I don't want to feel guilty about the fact that I'm, you know, not consistent in my Bible reading, or I do it so that I can feel like, you know, I am so proud of myself that I am. I am even consistent in my Bible readings on vacation. If that's. You, go listen to our marks of righteousness episode. But it's. Neither of those are right. We don't. We don't feel guilty, and we don't do it out of pride or earning something before the Lord, but we do it because. I think you said this earlier, Melissa, the. It is. It is our responsibility to continue to grow in Christ. And I think about just all the different phrases that are used in scripture, you know, that we're to grow up in Christ, that we're to be strengthened. Like we're actually supposed to be stronger throughout the course of our. Our life. Scripture talks about the fact that we need to reach maturity in this and that we won't be tossed about, but we're going to be anchored, we're going to be steady. We're going to be, you know, immovable in the Lord. Like, those are beautiful things. And those don't just happen passively. Right. Those happen as we actively pursue Christ. So how would you encourage someone in the why of the. Of the why of why they want to continue to grow spiritually over the summer.
- [42:19]
A
To me, it is the most natural outworking of belief. Because what the scriptures tell me is, you know that when Jesus in the garden in John 15, he's talking about abiding. He says, apart from me you can do nothing. You're like a dry withered branch. And he says, abide in me, and I in you, and apart from me you can do nothing. But in me I'm going to make you this fruitful vine. And so, so basically if I say I'm going to take a break during the summer, I'm kind of saying I'm going to take a break from spirit filled living, which he has directly linked to abiding in him. You know, I mean, he's created a means by which he works in our soul. And so it's kind of like saying, yeah, I'm not really interested in bearing fruit this summer. I think I can just work hard enough on my own to be loving and joyful and peaceful and patient and kind and all this things. And it's actually saying, no, I believe I can't do that without him. And so I'm going to plant myself, I'm going to park myself here because I want to have a good summer. Not as a workspace, not as a. I earn a good summer because I do. But apart from him, I can do nothing. You know, I'm going to be a brittle little branch because that's how much I need him. So it's not about earning, it's about knowing.
- [43:50]
B
Well, even as you're talking about the relationship piece, the relational piece, I mean, I'm thinking how painful if somebody said to us, listen, I just need to take a break from you this summer. Like, I mean, maybe you feel it sometimes, Melissa, but you know, like, can
- [44:05]
A
you imagine dish not happening this summer?
- [44:08]
B
Yeah, Melissa, break from Courtney. I mean, how much greater like, like how painful would that be? If that's basically what we're saying to the Lord, like, yeah, I don't know. Just as you were talking, the relational piece of that, how painful that would be. And we don't want to do that. Well, we always want to end with kind of a fun little question. So I'm going to ask you this time. And there's a right answer on this, by the way, and there are some wrong answers. So you just have to know that going into it.
- [44:40]
A
Okay, okay, Now I feel really intimidated.
- [44:43]
B
What is your favorite place to be in the summer?
- [44:46]
A
Oh, you know, that's easy for me on a Boat.
- [44:50]
B
Wait, stop. No, no. See, you're going. You're going to the wrong answer. No. What is your favorite place to be this summer?
- [44:58]
A
Oh, girl, I am not going to be answering a spirit of truth if I say Indianapolis. I am very excited to be there. I cannot wait for the moment that we are at Giordano's eating deep dish pizza with you in Indianapolis. That will be.
- [45:18]
B
My goodness. We go in early just to do it. Okay, but if it was not a conference year.
- [45:24]
A
If it was not a conference year, then Beaufort, North Carolina. It's pronounced Beaufort. It's spelled the exact same way as Beaufort, S.C. i always like to specify that. But it's Beaufort, North Carolina, on a boat with my dog looking at the water. That's the best. What about you? Where? Other than Indianapolis?
- [45:45]
B
Other than Indianapolis. On the non conference years, then my favorite place to be is this little town in southwest Missouri on the edge of Table Rock Lake. Sitting out on the back deck looking out over. Just actually, actually, no, it would be on the boat. On the water. On the boat. On the water. And actually my favorite place on the boat is on the front and somebody else is driving and I can just feel like all the. Like I love to go fast and sit up front and just. I mean, it is just heaven to me. So, yeah, probably.
- [46:21]
A
Okay. You know what I'm a little disturbed by? I have not been with you there and you have not been with me to Beaufort. I mean, that needs to change. We need to do some Deep Dish episodes on the lake and at the ocean.
- [46:34]
B
Can we do a Deep Dish episode on a boat? Oh, you know, I love boats.
- [46:39]
A
The micro.
- [46:39]
B
How fun would that be?
- [46:41]
A
Be hard to hear, but we can drop.
- [46:45]
B
Okay, well, we better wrap this up, friends. We do hope that you have been encouraged by this episode of the Deep Dish from the Gospel Coalition. We hope that it actually helps equip you and encouraged you to continue being in the Word either by yourself or in a community of other believers over this summer. And of course, we do hope that we get to see you in Indianapolis in just a couple of weeks. But this episode has been helpful. Consider sharing it with others and invite them over for a discussion on how you all can be in the Word together. We will see you next time.
- [47:21]
A
Hey, friends, it's Melissa Krueger here and I'm so excited that you're listening to the Deep Dish. Wanna stay connected and get even more resources for growing in your favorite faith. We've got a new newsletter for you and we're so excited about it. When you subscribe, you'll get discussion questions for the Deep Dish episodes, memory Verses, updates on what's happening with women's initiatives, as well as some of our favorite staff picks. And these are really fun. So head over to tgc.org women and sign up today. We can't wait to connect with you again. That's TGC.org women.