← The Deep End With Lecrae
The Deep End With Lecrae
Devon Franklin Has An Honest Convo On Hollywood, Relationship Goals & New Marriage w/ Lecrae
01:16:35
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- [00:00]
Devon Franklin
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- [00:30]
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- [01:00]
Lecrae
Why were they living together?
- [01:02]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
Supposed to be a pastor's book about
- [01:04]
Lecrae
how to do relationships. Why they shacking on relationship goals?
- [01:09]
Devon Franklin
Okay, if our content only shows the ideal but never shows where people may come from, the content's not gonna resonate. Hey, wait a minute. When was the last faith based romantic comedy that's ever been made? When was the last one?
- [01:24]
Lecrae
I don't. Why do you continue doing it, though? Some people may criticize you. You don't have to do it, but
- [01:30]
Devon Franklin
you do do it. Yeah. Why? At the end of my life, I have to be accountable to God. I've got to stand before him and take account for what he called me to do.
- [01:43]
Lecrae
I've never seen you like this.
- [01:45]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
After nine years of marriage and Devon Franklin are filing for divorce, you went
- [01:51]
Lecrae
on record and you said, you know, you weren't looking for love, but you were open to it. How is someone open after all of that chaos that you've endured?
- [02:01]
Devon Franklin
Love is the whole entire game of our human experience, Period. That's it. So if we close ourself off to love, we close ourself off to life and to God.
- [02:14]
Lecrae
I don't know what you've done with the Devon Franklin of old. I don't know this individual sitting here right now.
- [02:21]
Devon Franklin
Allow me to reintroduce myself. This is the deep end with LaCrae.
- [02:30]
Lecrae
All right, ladies and gentlemen, I am Excited, because today we have somebody who a lot of us know. Right, but we don't know all of the things this individual has done. The, The. The trailblazing that has happened with this, with this. This gentleman that we have here today. You, you know, you've been a fan of so many movies that he's had his hands in, from the Pursuit of Happiness to the Karate Kid and did not realize that there was somebody who loved the Lord behind the scenes, making sure that you got to see things that were amazing in quality. This man is one of the few people in Hollywood who's built a sustained career at the intersection of mainstream entertainment and. And Christian faith. Rose from an unpaid intern to a senior vice president at Sony Pictures, launched his own production company, you know, went through trial and error and still came out on top. Preacher, not a pastor, New York Times bestselling author, newly married man, actor. And made more faith adjacent films in the last 18 months than in the prior decade alone. So, y', all, you gotta give your flowers to the one, the only, Devon Franklin.
- [03:58]
Devon Franklin
What's up, man?
- [03:59]
Lecrae
What's up, brother?
- [04:00]
Devon Franklin
Good to see you.
- [04:01]
Lecrae
I left so much off your resume, man.
- [04:03]
Devon Franklin
Hey, it's all right.
- [04:04]
Lecrae
I left off the fact that I, Ruth and Boaz, that I had a small. You know, if it wasn't for me, I don't know if the film would have been. It wouldn't have been.
- [04:12]
Devon Franklin
It wouldn't have been. So thank you for blessing us. You know what I'm saying?
- [04:15]
Lecrae
You made the move.
- [04:15]
Devon Franklin
You know what I'm saying? Of course.
- [04:17]
Lecrae
So, man, I just want to say, first and foremost, you have always been a light in a dark place. Right? And you've opened up your world to a lot of us, right. Who have just wondered, how do we navigate faith in entertainment? And there's not a lot of people who have the level of experience and understanding that you have. And so, one, I just want to thank you for that.
- [04:45]
Devon Franklin
Oh, man, you're welcome, my brother.
- [04:47]
Lecrae
But a lot of people don't know your full story. They. They just know, like, what you've been involved in or tabloids or you praying for people all the time on social media. Like, every time I crawl, your head's bowed, you just praying. And I'm just like, this brother's just, you know, so they. They just know these snapshots of you, but, like, not your story. And, you know, you have a very interesting story that even I was learning as I was doing some research for this. Like, you grew up in a church.
- [05:15]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [05:16]
Lecrae
Preached at 16. You told the congregation you're going to Hollywood.
- [05:19]
Devon Franklin
Yep.
- [05:20]
Lecrae
And then. And then they told you that you were going to lose your faith.
- [05:23]
Devon Franklin
Yep. They said, oh, you, You.
- [05:25]
Lecrae
You tripping. I've. I've heard this before. And now, you know, decades later, you're.
- [05:32]
Devon Franklin
You're here.
- [05:33]
Lecrae
I'm curious.
- [05:35]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [05:35]
Lecrae
All those who said, now, Devon, it's dangerous out there. Yeah. Were any part of them right?
- [05:45]
Devon Franklin
I mean, it's like, yes and no, Right? No. From the standpoint of, okay, well, where. Where was their trepidation coming from? So let's just unpack that for a minute. So they're like, hey, we perceive this industry to be so negative that if you go, there's no way you can hold onto your faith. Right. So that implies that the power of the industry is greater than the power of God. So in that regard, it's like, okay, well, if you go, that power is going to have more authority over you than God does. But the real issue isn't even about the industry or even about what they said. It's about what was going on in me. At the end of the day, you can't be tempted by something you don't want. Temptation is only relative to what you really desire. And so for me, you know, when I went to, you know, going to Hollywood, I was like, yo, like, I want to be in Hollywood because I want to make change. That was always the goal. It was never to be in Hollywood for Hollywood's sake. It was never for, you know, fame, accolades, money, none of those things. It was like, hey, I believe this is an industry that can change the world. Because when you look at the impact of film and television, it is. It impacts the culture in so many ways. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, depending on your perspective. And so, you know, my goal was to always use Hollywood. You know, what I believe would be a good way. So. So, you know, no, they weren't right in some regards. And then. Yes, they were right. Right. Because, you know, you're in an industry where there are millions of dollars at stake. There are, you know, big personalities. There's a lot of pressure to perform and to deliver and. And to succeed and all of those things. And so if you're not really rooted and anchored. Yeah. In the Lord.
- [07:28]
Lecrae
Yeah.
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Devon Franklin
Then it's very easy to drift and to, you know, do what. What they were concerned about, which was, you know, you can lose your faith. And so it's a little of both. You know, I was always anchored in. This is why I want to be here. I'm here For a purpose. I'm here for a reason. And that reason has not changed in the 30 years that I've been in this business. Yeah.
- [07:50]
Lecrae
Do you think you were. And I don't mean, like, in a negative way. Do you think that you were naive? And if you were, does that naivete play into why you were just so passionate, like, no, I'm going. Or did you already anticipate it was gonna be, you know, a dark space and you were just like, I don't care. I'm on a mission.
- [08:11]
Devon Franklin
You know, I, I, at that time, you know, we're talking about 16, 17 years old, like, no, I didn't look at Hollywood as a dark place. Okay. That wasn't even, you know, I understood that's how people, you know, perceived it.
- [08:22]
Lecrae
Right.
- [08:22]
Devon Franklin
But that wasn't my perception. Okay. You know, I looked at Hollywood, it's like, wow, this is the land of opportunity. You know, look at the movies. You know, from the Color Purple to Back to the Future to Rocky to, you know, shows, like, A Different World and so many, you know, great pieces of content in between. Like, I looked at it as, like, w. Wow, look at what this industry can do.
- [08:40]
Lecrae
Okay?
- [08:40]
Devon Franklin
So I did, I did not go into it thinking like, oh, this is going to be difficult or it's going to be dark. That wasn't my perspective. What I was most concerned about was, would I be able to be successful? That was my concern. And also because, like, you know, growing up in the church, you know, my faith was just always a part of me.
- [08:58]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [08:58]
Devon Franklin
You know, I mean, I. I got baptized, you know, 10 years old. You know what I mean? Like, you know, was. It was a deacon and an usher and played the drums in church and directed the youth choir and all the things. So church was me.
- [09:10]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [09:10]
Devon Franklin
So when I came to Hollywood, I. It was just a part of who I am. My first internship interview, the. I got an internship interview for the company that managed Will Smith, and they said, you know, what do you want us to know? I said, well, you know, I observe the Sabbath. So if taking this internship would require me to work Friday night sundown, Saturday night sundown, I'm not going to take it. That was. It was. But it wasn't even. It was just matter of fact.
- [09:33]
Lecrae
And they were who you were?
- [09:34]
Devon Franklin
Just who I was. And they were like, oh, okay, we'll work around that. You know, so. And that just was. That's just how it honestly has been, you know, since from the day I got into Hollywood to right now. Yeah.
- [09:48]
Lecrae
We have a Lot of similarities in that we've moved in spaces that people outside are like, uh, oh, oh. And there's a lot of, like. Because they don't know what's on the other side of this proverbial wall.
- [10:01]
Devon Franklin
Sure.
- [10:02]
Lecrae
There's a lot of fear and trepidation. And with that fear and trepidation comes a lot of judgment. Yes, right. A lot of like, see, he done sold out. He's not serious anymore. How did those voices affect you early on? And, I mean, did it hurt? Did it not hurt? Like, how did that affect you?
- [10:23]
Devon Franklin
You know, it's like growing up, I guess you could say, in the business, you know, I didn't really experience that judgment because nobody knew who I was.
- [10:35]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [10:36]
Devon Franklin
You know, I mean, even in the outside world, nobody knew who I was. You know, it wasn't really until I wrote my first book, produced by Faith, while I was an executive at Sony Pictures. And that was all about, you know, how I've been an executive, been able to maintain my faith, and was encouraging readers. It was basically like how you make a movie. And then I used the metaphor of making a movie on how the reader can get their life made, you know, using God as their director and all of the things. And so that was probably the first. Releasing that book and promoting that book and the publicity surrounding that book. That was the first time people in the mainstream started to know who I was. Like, oh, oh, okay. There's this. There's this executive, you know, at Sony who's also a Christian. And, you know, and then the faith world started to take notice and all those things. So I. But up until that point, I didn't experience much judgment once I got into the public eye. Now that's when I've experienced the judgment. So on some level, it was actually. Actually a good thing that God, like, you know, almost like, hid me for so long because I. I just was so focused on what it is I was here to do that I never took into account, really, people's perception. So now as people judge me and, you know, you know how it is. It's like people misunderstand you, and then they have this point of view and then they make a judgment on that. And a lot of times it's our own people, you know, and that can be very painful. But I'm so glad that I had a foundation so that as the judgment has come, you know, I've still been able to stay anchored in who I am and have a foundation for what I do. Yeah. But it hasn't been until you know, really these past, I would say 10 years or so, and the more that I've been in the public eye and the more well known I've become, where I've been, you know, privy to and privileged to be judged,
- [12:22]
Lecrae
I'm. I. Oftentimes people with your level of success, there is, there's some sort of historical fuel, right. That is like fueling this, like, intense, like, no, I'm going forward. And this is not the case for everybody, but for a lot of people, there's a level of intensity at a young age that helps people become very proficient at what they do. And when people are young, they're usually like, aloof. They're not thinking about stuff, they're just enjoying life. But sometimes for young people, life gets real. And your father dies at nine?
- [13:04]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, when I was nine years old. When he was 36. Yep.
- [13:07]
Lecrae
So life got real for you very fast. I know movies became sort of therapeutic for you during that time period. Talk to me about, like, what was happening, like, how did it affect you knowing your father's gone? And then how. And how did you navigate toward movies for therapy?
- [13:25]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, you know, I mean, how did it affect me? Affected me, you know, greatly. I mean, even though, like, during the course of my nine years, the nine years that I had a chance to, you know, spend with him, you know, he was in and out of our house. You know, he was an alcoholic and that alcoholism was a real disease for him and for, you know, one of my, one of my uncles and my grandfather. And so it really ran through the line on my father's side. And so during those nine years, you know, I saw him here and there, but he was still a presence. And so, you know, the day that he died was traumatic because we were going to go see him in the hospital and literally we just got home from school and my mother got the call that he died. And so we go and we go to the hospital and she takes us into the morgue and there he is. And as a nine year old kid, I just didn't know how to process that. All I knew was like, I don't like this. And so I didn't even want to go to the funeral. I mean, I was ab. I was just, I was adamant, I'm not going to the funeral. But then, you know, my family talked to me and they were like, okay, hey, here's the deal. You need to go to the funeral. Because we think it's important for you to have that memory and have that closure. But we won't make you go to the grave site. Okay? So that. That was the deal. So I went to the funeral, you know, experienced all of that, and then I went home to where we were having the repast while everybody else went to, you know, went. Went to the grave site. And so, you know, coming out of that, I just remember feeling very unstable, you know, like, what is. What is life? I just experienced death. You know, am I going to meet the same fate as my father? You know, so there were a lot of questions. Who am I? Where do I fit? I'm a middle child of three boys. And so, you know, just being a middle child in general, it can be very difficult. And it was for me, because it was like, man, what's my place and who am I? And where do I fit? And. And so losing my father just really amplified those questions. And so when you talk about the role of entertainment, it was really the combination of entertainment and church. Okay. Because my father died at the beginning of. I think it was 88. And then my uncle started an independent church in Oakland, East Oakland, California, that same year.
- [15:35]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [15:35]
Devon Franklin
And so that church really gave us a chance to be, you know, it was just a family church. So we were very involved, and there was a lot of things that we were able to do, you know, as I mentioned earlier, you know, sweeping the floors and deaconing and ushering and, you know, given the announcements, given the children's story. So church became like a really positive outlet.
- [15:53]
Lecrae
That's right.
- [15:54]
Devon Franklin
To be able to work through the grief. And then watching movies, you know, it's like, I just remember, you know, watching movies, watching the first. The first Rocky. I just remember, like, about that. Yeah, like. Like the thing about Rocky, he. He felt. He thought he was a bum. He didn't even want to win the championship. He just wanted to go the distance so that he could prove to himself that he was worth something. And as a young kid, I related to that because I didn't feel like much. I didn't feel like I was worth much. You know, I was like, again, I'm a middle child. I'm like, man, I don't know where I fit. My older brother gets the attention, you know, because he's the first one. My younger brother's the cute one. He gets the attention, and I'm just left in the corner, you know, that's how I felt growing up. And so it was, you know, finding this almost. It's almost like a reprieve, finding this piece and watching, you know, these movies and shows and, you know, back to the future. Like, wow, how are they able to do that? And the visual effects, and it just captivated my imagination. And so it was. It was really that combination of things because mom didn't have no money for therapy. You know, we were on welfare. And, you know, it was just a very. At that time, a very difficult moment financially. You know, we ultimately, you know, we moved in with my grandparents. You know, it was five of us in one room. Now. My grandparents, you know, slept in the. In the driveway in their. In their RV so that me and my brothers and my mom could have a place to sleep. Like, this is, you know, where.
- [17:18]
Lecrae
Where.
- [17:18]
Devon Franklin
Where I was, you know, and so, you know, having that kind of foundation and a lot of questions, it was. It was just like, Hollywood and faith. Those things were the things that I latched on to. And. And so the fuel for me was like, yo, I got to. I got to go prove to myself that I can do this. And because it just. There was. It just. I just felt like God put Hollywood in my spirit as a thing to go do. And the fuel was I got to prove to myself that I. I can do it. You know, I got to prove, you know, that I'm. That I have talent, I have skills, that I have the ability. And so that the fuel was, you know, probably rooted in that trauma, rooted in, you know, being that middle child. And, like, no, I'm going find my place. I'm going find it, and I don't care. I don't know nobody in Hollywood at that time. I had no family in the business. It didn't matter, because I felt like this is where I had to come in order to really discover who I was.
- [18:18]
Lecrae
I know I'm interrupting you, but just listen.
- [18:21]
Devon Franklin
Listen to me, okay?
- [18:21]
Lecrae
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- [20:16]
Devon Franklin
Come on, y'.
- [20:16]
Lecrae
All, 5 million people are already on this. And once you see how it works, the old way just starts to look
- [20:22]
Devon Franklin
like the weird option.
- [20:23]
Lecrae
So what I need you to do is download Earn in. Download the app on the App Store or Google Play. It's spelled E, A, R, N, I N G without the G. Okay, like earning money without the G. Type in the deep end with Lecrae under podcast when you sign up. It's going to really help the show. Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank. Access limits are based on your earnings and risk factors. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. Expedited transfers are available for a fee. Tips are voluntary and do not affect the service available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply. Visit Earnin.com for the full details. Yeah, it's very interesting to hear you. You know, like, do you feel like you were a mature 18 year old going off to Hollywood because of this, this trauma that fueled you to be like, I gotta get this.
- [21:16]
Devon Franklin
Absolutely.
- [21:17]
Lecrae
So you felt more mature?
- [21:18]
Devon Franklin
Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [21:20]
Lecrae
How would you have compared yourself to your peers at that time. Like, what was your perspective when you get to Hollywood versus a lot of the other young people that you saw around you in Hollywood?
- [21:28]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, well, you know, it's like I had a, Because I was so passionate about the industry, I did a lot of research. You know, scripture talks about, you know, study to show yourself approved. And so in, you know, in high school, it was like, you know, I wasn't just watching the movies, I was looking at who made the movies, who wrote the movies, what studios released the movies, who has production deals, who doesn't. Like, I was, I was just immersed in the business. And at 16 years old, you know, I was playing basketball my freshman sophomore year in high school, I got a car. And the deal for me to get the car was I had to pay the car insurance. So my junior and senior year of high school, instead of playing basketball, I got an after school job. And so that after school job, I was, you know, almost like an administrative assistant at this nonprofit. And so going in there every day, you know, having a work ethic, learning how to deal with people, you know, understanding what it takes takes to run an office. Like, so by the time I was 18 years old, I just was very clear. Like, I'm going to LA to go to school, I'm going to get an internship in the business because I need to know if I really want to do it and if I'm good at it and this is going to be my focus. And that was that. So 18 years old, man, I was, I was tunnel vision. So the difference between me and others is that, you know, 18 years old, you're still exploring, you know. And so, so some of my peers, you know, going to college, I went to usc, majored in business, minored in film because I got rejected from the film school, okay? They were like, no. And, and that's the thing about God. Like, God is going to reject you from the places that can't protect you. You know what I'm saying? Like, he just gonna be like, nah, that ain't it. You know, And I'm glad it wasn't it, because if I had gotten into film school as a freshman, I would have never gotten the internship. And the internship is what really got me started in the career, in my career and getting the foot in the door. So that was the difference. I had an awareness of the industry, I knew what I wanted to do, and I hit the ground running at 18 with the plan.
- [23:17]
Lecrae
So you're, you know, I, I, I understand what it's like to be in the industry as a believer, right. To, like, okay, I'm bumping up against perspectives that are, you know, different than mine, probably a little more often than I. Than I, you know, might have thought. I'm just curious for you. You know, you were solid in your faith. You had your foundation, but had you had prior experiences that prepared you to be in a world where your Christian perspective was different? And, like, what advice would you give a Christian who's stepping into Hollywood?
- [24:00]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, I went to school in the Bay Area in a. You know, the church was in Oakland. The school that I went to was in Albany. And so Albany is like, you know, not Albany, New York. Albany, California. Okay. And it's right next to Berkeley and Oakland, Richmond, you know, so it's. It's almost like an urban suburb. And so a lot of students from UC Berkeley, I mean, their. Their children went to these Albany middle school and high school. So my school was very diverse. So being a Christian and being, you know, one of the few Christians at school was not a. It was not an uncommon thing. That's just kind of how it was. And there were students there from all over the world because UC Berkeley would get, you know, students from all over the world. And so there's. Those students would have children, and those children would come to school. So it was not an uncommon experience for me to, you know, have interaction with people who had a totally different background, a totally different thought process, a totally different upbringing. And one of the things that I went through, you know, in. In high school, like, freshman year, was it was basically like diversity training, I guess you could say. Okay, you know, and it was called, like, the Peacemaker program. And one of the things that it taught was, you know, tolerance, you know, and that. And that one of the ways to create a healthy community is to have tolerance for people's differences. And so that was really the foundation, you know, of high school. So by the time I was 18, coming to, you know, LA, you know, pursuing a career in Hollywood, it was not an uncommon thing to have interactions with people who just had a different point of view. And what I would say to, you know, you talk when you ask the question about, well, what would you say to people, you know, trying to pursue Hollywood? I go back to the word, right? We love the story of the prodigal son. We have to remember Jesus. That's a parable. Jesus told the parable of the lost coin, the lost sheep, the lost son. As a response to the Pharisees Critiquing him for sitting down with sinners. And so they're like, hey, how can you sit with people that are different than you that we don't think you should be sitting with? And Jesus is like, oh, let me tell you how I operate. And he goes on to give him the parable of the lost son. I mean, the lost coin, the lost sheep, the lost son. And so what? That for me was like, hey, the whole purpose of our faith is to share it and to create opportunities to engage with people that think totally different because we're all God's children. So I would give that advice to anybody pursuing Hollywood. Be open. Understand who you are, appreciate who you are, but also open up your heart, because you have no idea how you being open to somebody, they may have a totally different point of view. They may have a totally different walk of life, and they come across you, and you plant a seed, and then who knows what happens with that seed.
- [26:41]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [26:42]
Devon Franklin
So I would encourage, don't be afraid. Be open. Know your boundaries. Know yourself, but don't be afraid to interact and engage with people who have different points of view.
- [26:55]
Lecrae
So. So you come to Hollywood with the mindset of, I want to see transformation. I want to change some things here. I want to bring my unique perspective here and make a difference. Do you feel like you were effective? And when did you realize this is what God called you to do? Like, it's. It's a. It's. It's effective.
- [27:21]
Devon Franklin
You know, that's an interesting question. You know, I still question, is it effective? I pray that it is. You know, I hope bad. Like, you know, some days I wake up and I'm like, oh, Lord, I don't know what I'm doing. This ain't working. So, you know, but I. I think one of the first memories that I have of, like, feeling like, oh, okay, there's some. There's some purpose here, which is, you know, I was interning, and while I was interning, I was my freshman and sophomore year, I was primarily interning for Benny Medina. And Benny Medina, you know, at the time was managing Babyface, and he currently manages Jennifer Lopez. And so when I was in the office as an intern, I would function kind of like his third assistant. So one night we were at the office very late, and I was, you know, we were helping him get ready for a trip that he was getting ready to go on. And so he was going to go from the office to the private airport and take the jet to the meeting. And so right before we leave, you know, I just say, hey, you know, would you mind if I pray with you for traveling mercies? And, you know, he kind of paused, and he was like, okay. So me and the other assistants and Benny all got in the prayer circle, and I prayed for traveling mercies. And he was like, thank you. I really appreciate that. He went on about his way, and. And that, for me was like, okay, all right. You know, it's. It's not. Success is not just the projects. You know, success is, okay, well, what impact can I have on the people? You know? So that was really my earliest memory of, like, okay, I don't know how all this is going to work out, but I feel like this is These. This is why I'm here.
- [28:55]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [28:56]
Devon Franklin
You know, I'm here to. To be of service. I'm here to, you know, minister on some level. And so, you know, that was my earliest memory. And then over the years, you know, seeing the open doors, you know, going from, you know, quitting my job. Well, I didn't quit my job as an intern. I got a job as an assistant to Will's manager. And then after about two years, I quit my job and then, you know, got a job working for Tracy Edmonds at her production company and then left there to go to mgm. And then MGM got sold to Sony, and I was one of two executives out of thousands to be able to make the transition to Sony. And then the first movie I get a chance to work on at Sony was Pursuit of Happiness. I mean, so I just have seen the open doors. Yeah. So that's also been another indicator to me, like, okay, you know, I'm. I believe I'm heading in the right direction.
- [29:44]
Lecrae
Yeah. A lot of times, like, someone could look at your story and look at the success you've had and feel like, well, sheesh. I mean, the guy got it made. Everything worked out for him. But if you peel back the layers a little bit, you know, you're. You got Karate Kid, Pursuit of Happiness. You, breakthrough, you sign on to do a production deal with paramount, and then 2019 happens.
- [30:13]
Devon Franklin
Yep.
- [30:14]
Lecrae
And Covid hits, and everything comes crashing down. Yes. Talk to me about where your head was, where your heart was, where your faith was during that, after all that success.
- [30:27]
Devon Franklin
Right.
- [30:28]
Lecrae
And then, bam, and boom.
- [30:30]
Devon Franklin
Nothing. Man, that was a tough period of time. Why? Because one of the greatest temptations that we face is in success to tether our identity to the achievements. So when the achievements start to shake, they start to wobble. What happens to our identity? So that's what happened to me. You know, I had. I, you know, I still was Christian, but had attached so much of my own self worth to the achievements, you know, and, and having this big deal at Paramount and, you know, wanting to make all these. These different movies and then covet hits and, you know, all of my, you know, executives and assistants, then everyone has to work from home. And then by the time, you know, Covid starts to, you know, get. Starts to settle the one of the movies that I was gonna make, you know, the new chairman of Paramount at the time didn't want to make the movie, put it in turnaround. And so by the time my deal was up, I had nothing to show for it. And so as someone who prides himself in their work, to be able to look back and say, wow, you know, this company, you know, gave me money and I didn't make good on the return, I didn't make good on the investment, man, it really affected my self esteem because I looked in the mirror and I just was like, wow, man, maybe I'm not who I think I am. And I felt like a failure to be quite honest with you. And then I had to let go, you know, my deal. I lost my deal and had to let go of most of my executives and most of my, you know, support staff and had to give up my office space. I had amazing office space in West Hollywood and had to go work, you know, from the kitchen table, you know, so it was. It was a humbling time. It was. It was a time when I really, you know, on some level felt humiliated, you know, because this was all very public. And then on another level, I said, okay, underneath that humiliation, there's. There's humility. And so I was like, okay, Lord, well, you know, maybe you don't want me to produce. Okay, I'm gonna be. I was just saying, Lord, whatever you want me to do. It was a moment of pure surrender wherever you want me to go, like, because maybe you've. You've called me to produce Four Seasons. Maybe there's something else you want me to do, maybe you want to send me in a totally different direction. But I just had to humble myself before the throne and be like, not my will or, but. But yours be done. And. And in those moments, man, it was. It was probably some of the most difficult times in my career and life. You know, it's like imagine, you know, it's like you get, you know, the Columbia Records deal shoot, man, what if it didn't pan out? You know what I mean?
- [33:04]
Lecrae
Right?
- [33:04]
Devon Franklin
And it's like you know, Columbia was like, wait a minute, I thought you were going to be. And then it's like, well, shoot. You know, the albums, what. You know, they've been all these millions of dollars and they got, man. You know, and everybody knew. You know what I'm saying? So for me, it was like. It was that. Like, it was, you know, had a big announcement in the trades, this big deal with Paramount, and then, boom. And then nothing. Nothing, man. So it was a humbling moment. It was a difficult moment.
- [33:31]
Lecrae
How do you overcome. How do you get past it? How do you grow through that?
- [33:36]
Devon Franklin
You know, first I just had to sit in it, you know, I just had to feel it. You know, it's like we. We don't like to feel what we perceive as failure, so we like to rush through it. I don't want to feel this way. So. But. But for me, it was like, no, I have to sit in this, and I have to evaluate and assess, okay, what was my role in this? What could I have done differently? And then as I do my assessment and I sit in those feelings, then I say, okay, well, where am I going now? You know? And it just so happened that, like, around that time, I was able to make a film for Fox called Flamin Hot, about the creator of Flamin Hot Cheetos. Great movie. Thank you. I really enjoyed that film. We had a lot of fun making that movie. And so that movie, getting the green light was a sign from God to me that, you know, I still have this for you. You know, and so I just said, okay, well, I'm gonna take it one step at a time. I'm not gonna. Cause originally my thought was like, oh, you know, when I had that Paramount deal, okay, I'm gonna build this big media company, and I have this Paramount deal, and I have this CBS deal, and I'm doing publishing and I'm doing this and that. And that was the goal, right? And I even talk about this in my audiobook, Be true. I had. In my office, I had a color pie chart that literally said the Devon Franklin Universe. And it had all the things that I wanted to do and was doing and. And all that. And then fast forward, you know, covet, and all the things happened, and then I lose my. My whole office. Don't even have office to put the pie chart in, right? Lose everything. And so I remember taking that piece of paper and setting it on fire and saying, God, maybe I made this the altar. Let me get rid of my idea of how I think it needs to look and just take one step at a time and see where you take me. Yeah, that's how I did it.
- [35:39]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Devon Franklin
Just. Just taking one step at a time. Because I was like, oh, maybe I'm the one putting too much pressure on myself trying to make this thing happen. Maybe this thing is not what God has ordained, or at least not in this season, because you know how it is. We can get into efforting. You know, it's like, oh, I'm putting all this effort into making it happen. I'm putting all this effort. Don't get me wrong, to be successful, effort is required.
- [36:00]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [36:00]
Devon Franklin
But there's a difference to me between rendering effort and efforting. You know, I. I feel that there's a difference there. And so at different stages in my career, I was efforting.
- [36:11]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [36:11]
Devon Franklin
I was making. Trying to make this happen. Trying to push. Trying to push this success up a hill. This rock up the hill.
- [36:16]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [36:17]
Devon Franklin
And God was like, I'm gonna let that boulder roll all the way down now. You don't have to push it up the hill. Right. When I call you up this hill, there's going to be momentum. It's going to take some of your effort, but you don't have to effort yourself to the top. And so that's what happened, man. I just took one step at a time. I made Flamin Hot and finished that film, started looking for a deal, another deal, and there was none. There was no deal to be had. And this is something where I think I'm grateful we're having this part of the conversation because we are so ready to praise God when we're at the mountaintop. But what is prayer and praise look like in the valley? You know, and can we thank him in the valley the same way we would thank him on the mountaintop? And I had to really learn that because I was a lot of times just praising, oh, everything's going great, everything's going great. Everything's great. Yes, God, God, God. Amen. Amen. Amen. But now it's like, yo, you don't have to deal with deal. You're working from home, Right. And as a producer in Hollywood, if you don't have a deal, it's very hard to stay in business. The deals from studios help fund the entire company and also provide legitimacy. And so you don't have a deal. You are, you know, borderline not a legitimate producer at that time. Yeah. And so I had to just sit there and say, okay, God, you brought me to this business. Maybe this is not what you want me to do anymore. And after, after Flamin Hot came out and it was successful, there was still no deal. None.
- [37:48]
Lecrae
Wow.
- [37:48]
Devon Franklin
And so I. I just said, okay, God. Well, maybe, you know. Cause a lot of, you know, you know, people, A lot of people think I'm a pastor. I'm like, I'm not a pastor. I preach, you know, I said, but maybe you want me to preach more, you know, maybe that's what you want me to do. Maybe you want me to write books, Maybe you want me to go take a job. I don't know. Yeah, but I really just had to sit there and. And be open to what he wanted me to do. And. But one of the things I never did was I never gave up my identity. Like, I know I'm talented, you know, I know that I'm a good leader. You know, I know that I'm a good communicator. Those things I was always very clear about. But what was going to happen? I didn't know.
- [38:22]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [38:23]
Devon Franklin
Didn't know.
- [38:24]
Lecrae
All right, I know I'm interrupting, but I gotta do this because family coordination is a full time job. I mean, who's picking up who, what's due in, who forgot what they were supposed to do? It's a lot, y'.
- [38:33]
Devon Franklin
All.
- [38:34]
Lecrae
And the group chat helps, kind of. Until it doesn't. Skylight Calendar is what we actually needed. It's a digital smart calendar that syncs everything. Your Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook. And it puts it all on one screen so your whole family can see you assign colors per person. You can set up chores, routines for the kids. So I don't know, stops being a sentence in your house. Homework, brushing teeth, whatever. Doesn't matter. It's on the screen. And there's zero excuses. You can manage the events, the grocery list, the meal planning all in one place. You're gonna love it. Okay. If you're not completely happy within the first four months, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Families are better when they're working together. So right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendars by going to myskylite.com lecrae $30 off your 15 inch calendar. That's my S K-Y-L-I G H T.com
- [39:29]
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- [40:00]
Lecrae
That's very interesting. You mentioned being a great leader, being a great communicator, and that's something that I notice about you. Right. Like, I noticed that if someone's not intentional with you, they could assume that you're fine. Right? Right. You can. Oh, yeah, you can say it. And it sounds like, yeah, everything's great. You're. You smile, you're positive, you're encouraging, and yet you've endured a lot of hardship.
- [40:37]
Devon Franklin
Yes.
- [40:40]
Lecrae
You're talking about a season of life where the thing that everyone identified you with is crumbling.
- [40:47]
Devon Franklin
Absolutely.
- [40:48]
Lecrae
You know, you've experienced, you know, family trauma, relationship trauma, and now you're at this place where, like, I don't think people would see you as someone who's like, I surrender. I surrender.
- [41:04]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [41:07]
Lecrae
How? Because you're recently married.
- [41:09]
Devon Franklin
Yes.
- [41:10]
Lecrae
Now.
- [41:10]
Devon Franklin
Yes. Yes.
- [41:12]
Lecrae
How does. If someone were to talk to you in that season where everything seemed like it was in turmoil.
- [41:18]
Devon Franklin
Yes.
- [41:19]
Lecrae
You know, you. You. You went on record and you said, you know, you weren't looking for love, but you were open.
- [41:25]
Devon Franklin
Yes.
- [41:25]
Lecrae
To it.
- [41:26]
Devon Franklin
Yes.
- [41:26]
Lecrae
I'm just curious. How is someone open after all of that chaos that you've endured? Like, are you. Like, most people wouldn't say they're open. They're like, no, I'm just.
- [41:38]
Devon Franklin
I'm going home.
- [41:39]
Lecrae
I'm just.
- [41:39]
Devon Franklin
Good. Yeah.
- [41:41]
Lecrae
How do you get to that place? Oh, man.
- [41:45]
Devon Franklin
You know. You know, listen, one of the things that, you know, I learned early on, which I think was very helpful, was therapy. Okay. You know, like. Like getting into therapy. You know, once I got older, you know, got health insurance and had the money to go to therapy, I finally was able to do that. And, you know, being in therapy and really being able to talk through, you know, just my issues and, you know, my shortcomings and my trauma and all those things, it created a process of self evaluation. It just created a process of, like, assessment and. And not jumping to conclusions. Right. About, like, one thing or another. And so when I was in that season and felt like everything was crumbling, you know, it was a moment where I just sat there and I was like, okay, I want to react, but let me evaluate here. Let me really just sit and just evaluate, like, well, what led to this and what led to that. And. Yep. Because you were this, you know, because you're trying to be the nice guy. Because you're not speaking your piece, because, you know, you really. You really know that you should have advocated for that particular project, but you didn't because you were playing politics. Like, I just sat there and said, okay, because I could have taken it as like, oh, you know, all this stuff is happening to me, you know, and there was a temptation at times to feel that way, but then. Then my power is gone.
- [43:09]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [43:09]
Devon Franklin
If it's happening to me, then I don't have any ability to affect anything. And so I said, okay, there are things that are happening that I didn't pray for, that I actually don't want, that I don't like. But what can I do about it? What can I do? What. What is my process? So when, you know, when all hell was breaking loose and everything was, you know, falling by the wayside, you know, what I was able to hold on to is. Is myself, like, okay, God, you've given me this therapist. You've given me a life coach. Let me just work on. On myself. Let me work on the areas that I need to improve, you know, impersonally. Because at the end of the day, that's. That's what. What was happening. You know, Even though parts of my internal world were strong, other parts are very weak.
- [43:51]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [43:51]
Devon Franklin
You know what I mean? Insecurities and doubts and fears and. And this idea that if I'm the nice guy, then all things going to work out. Well, no, that's not. That's not true. It's about being the true guy. It's about being the true girl, not the nice girl or the nice guy. That's what I've learned. Because sometimes we think, oh, if I'm nice, everything's cool. No, be true. Because when we. When we are true to what we feel, what we think, who we are, that to me is when I experience life start to. To change. And so in those moments, man, I had to get to a place of. Of truth.
- [44:27]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [44:28]
Devon Franklin
And. And I had to get to a place where I had to say, no matter what people think of me, I can't let that be the thing that determines what I do. I had to say, you know what? People. Some people are not going to understand. Some people are going to judge. People are going to criticize. At the end of the day, I have to be true.
- [44:54]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [44:55]
Devon Franklin
And discovering what I felt was true for me had really became the anchor to pull me out of that.
- [45:00]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [45:01]
Devon Franklin
And one last Thing I'll say is when you talk about, you know, the. Everybody you know, would never know. You know what I mean? And that's one of the reasons why I love even having this conversation and in this season that I'm in, is that, you know, my intent was not to necessarily project that kind of thing, you know, like, oh, this image of perfection, you know, which is not really what I was intentionally doing. But then, you know, when I started to peel back back the layers and evaluate, I was like, oh, that's what I was doing. Because in school, you know, they called me Mr. Perfect growing up, you know, and at first I thought that was a good thing, and then I got older, I said, that's a terrible thing. Yeah. Cuz nobody's perfect. Jesus was perfect. We are not. We are trying every day to figure out how to navigate this thing called humanity and flesh and as spirit. That is our daily thing. And some days we get it right, and some days we get it really wrong and to understand that's what makes us human.
- [45:52]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [45:52]
Devon Franklin
You know, at first I was like, I. Well, I don't want to be perceived as human. I want to be perceived as superhuman. And I got it all together. And coming out of, you know, the season that I went through, I was like, yo, I am. I am a man. I am a man of God and I am a human being. Yeah. And some days I get it right, some days I don't. And I'm okay with the journey that I'm on. And I want to express more of what I've been through as a way to give a lot more texture and context to how people perceive me and also to be more of greater service.
- [46:26]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Devon Franklin
Because, you know, people are watching, listening. I don't want anybody to think that, like, oh, this is just a smooth path. It's not. Yeah, it's not.
- [46:34]
Lecrae
I've never seen you like this. I have never. And I'm just being honest. I've never seen you like this. And all the years I've known you, you know, I mean, again, I've seen glimpses of like, the layers behind the image.
- [46:55]
Devon Franklin
Yes. Right.
- [46:57]
Lecrae
But I don't. But again, I have proximity. There's people who don't have proximity to you who have had this. Like, he just. Everything just works out. He just. He's fine.
- [47:07]
Devon Franklin
He's just fine.
- [47:08]
Lecrae
And it's so interesting that you say you grew up. Up. People called you Mr. Perfect.
- [47:12]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [47:13]
Lecrae
And I can tell you've really done some work.
- [47:14]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [47:15]
Lecrae
Because you're able to process all of this and acknowledge it and then to be transparent about it. So it's a lot of healing work.
- [47:23]
Devon Franklin
Absolutely. No, it is a lot. It's a lot of healing work, man. And. And that's what makes me grateful for everything I've been through, you know, because. Because that. That image that I was putting so much energy into, you know, God had to. It was an idol. What's the first commandment? You shall have no other gods before me. And when we really get with God, whatever idol we have is crumbling. And even the idol of self. And for me, like, I had to get. I had to break free to be able to sit here and. And to be able, like, yo, like, here's life. You know what I mean? Like, here's where we are.
- [48:02]
Lecrae
Here's.
- [48:03]
Devon Franklin
Here's. You know, here's what is, like to go through some stuff. You know, it's like, man, listen, I. Growing up, man, that was gonna touch on that. I literally.
- [48:12]
Lecrae
I was like, cuz, you got the visible.
- [48:13]
Devon Franklin
That's not Mr.
- [48:14]
Lecrae
Perfect.
- [48:15]
Devon Franklin
Mr. Perfect. You know, it was. But, you know, growing up, it was like, man, I always wanted to, you know, get a tattoo, but then I was like, no, I don't want to do that, because I don't. You know, that just doesn't align with, you know, my image. And, you know, when I was going through, you know, this season of just God rebuilding everything, that was part of my truth. It was like, no, you know, I want reminders of what I'm about. Live free. You know who the sun says free is free. Indeed. Love wins. At the end of the day, when you ask me about being open, it's because this love, love, love is the whole entire game of our human experience, period. That's it. So if we close ourself off to love, we close ourself off to life and to God, period. And so when I was going through the worst time of my life, I was. I just said, yo, like, man, listen, I don't care. I got to stay open to love. I just have to, you know, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not going to let the enemy win. I'm not. Because what's the win of the enemy to get me as a man? Close my heart, be callous, pursue your career, turn off your heart. The enemy wins. A man whose heart is open. A man whose heart is. Is open to love. Unstoppable. So that's why I was like, yo, I need this on me to remind myself of what I'm about. You Know, and it's also Bruce Lee's handwriting, you know what I mean? So, you know, I needed to. You know, I wanted to have some context, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, and then. And then. And for me, it's just about being in this space of, like, I just. I just gotta be true, man. Yeah, that's. That's. That's what it is. And again, people can take that. Some people gonna love this version. They ain't gonna like it. You know, I'm sure people gonna be like, oh, you know, you got tattoos and you talking about tattoo. Hey, this is me. This is me.
- [50:11]
Lecrae
I don't know what you've done with the Devon Franklin of old. I don't know this individual sitting here right now.
- [50:18]
Devon Franklin
Allow me to reintroduce myself, man.
- [50:23]
Lecrae
It's encouraging. And here's one thing that I'll say, because people take things in all kinds of ways, and we're not responsible for how things are taken. But what I'll say is that, man, oftentimes we don't know what to do with a person once they don't fit our perception or image that we have in their mind.
- [50:48]
Devon Franklin
And.
- [50:49]
Lecrae
And what I've been challenged to do and challenge other people to do is to say, man, that person's still made in the image of God. Regardless of if they didn't fit that box that you thought they should fit in, God sees them as somebody significant and wants to still do significant and incredible things with them. Can you support that? Can you get behind that? You know, like, he's not the Mr. Perfect that you thought he was, or he's not. Not the super Christian guy that you thought I was. But you. God's plans for me are not canceled because I didn't fit in your box, right? And I. And I think that's something that I just would encourage you, you know, just that, man, again, please keep going. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, because it makes a difference, you know what I'm saying?
- [51:37]
Devon Franklin
I appreciate that, man. That's so good. That's so good, you know, the plans. Because also I feel like, you know, as it relates to that, it's like, to be in culture, you know, to be in Hollywood and to be focused on, like, okay, how do I. How my mission is? I'm on a mission for the kingdom, you know, so the content and the producing and the acting, whatever God calls me to do in this business, it's like, how does this bring you glory, you know, And. And that's Also where it's like, I've learned, Okay. I have to be obedient to what he's called me to do and understand that part of that obedience is to be okay with people misunderstanding.
- [52:19]
Lecrae
That's good.
- [52:20]
Devon Franklin
Or not liking or judging, and just say no, you know, and. And that. And. And there's not much that we can do about that, that I can do about. You know, I do my best to, like, you know, give. Have conversations like this so people really get a chance to know who I am. But my mission remains the same.
- [52:37]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [52:37]
Devon Franklin
You know, I'm on. In this business on a mission.
- [52:39]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [52:40]
Devon Franklin
For what God has called me to do, to make content that can uplift and inspire. Yeah. That's what I'm here to do. And if I can't do that, then that. Then there's no need for me to be in this business.
- [52:50]
Lecrae
Yeah. So you're in a new space, a new headspace, a new outlook on life. And in the middle of your healing process, your healing journey, you do the Ruth and Boaz film.
- [53:05]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [53:06]
Lecrae
Which I did get pleasure of being a part of.
- [53:09]
Devon Franklin
Yes, you did. You were good, by the way. You were really good, man.
- [53:12]
Lecrae
Listen, I just, you know, maybe it opens up more doors. You never know.
- [53:15]
Devon Franklin
Now, mind you, this is the second movie I put you in.
- [53:16]
Lecrae
That's right.
- [53:17]
Devon Franklin
Second movie.
- [53:17]
Lecrae
That's right.
- [53:18]
Devon Franklin
So, you know, we gonna go for a third.
- [53:20]
Lecrae
All right. You know what I mean? How is your, like, was this movie cathartic for you? Did it help you in your healing journey? Was it, like, did you learn anything from making this film for your own current relationship? Like, how does it fit into the Devon Franklin world?
- [53:39]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, man. You know, making Ruth and Boaz was just a beautiful experience. You know, there hadn't been, you know, a modern version of that story in a very long time, and not one with this kind of, you know, twist, this musical, you know, twist. Not that it was a musical, but it definitely was music driven. And the irony is that once I came up with the idea and I pitched it to my buddies who I frequently collaborate with, Mike Elliott and Corey Tynan, and they wrote, you know, relationship Goals, and Mike Elliott wrote Brown Sugar and, like, Mike and so many other great screenplays. And so I pitched it to them, and they were like, yeah, well, we love that. And then they came up immediately with the concept on how to make it into a film, and I was like, bet. I love that. You know, got Netflix to sign off on, and we started making it now. We started developing the script now. Here was the irony as I was developing that is when I met Maria, one of our mutual friends, you know, he hit me up and was like, yo, you know, he sent me her ig. What do you think of her? I'm like, oh, you know, yeah, she's amazing. And he's like, great. He's like, I'm setting y' all up. And he said, setting y' all up? I was like, yeah. So we end up doing a. Basically a blind date with him. His mother was in town and her. And we got together, and then a week later, we went on our first date, which was a hike. And in that moment, I knew, like, you know, you just know. You're like, oh, Lord. So this is what you're doing. Like, really? Okay. God. So I just was kept open. So as we're developing, Ruth and Boaz, the writer, they gave me the script, and I'm reading it, and I'm like, y', all, I'm living some of this right now. Like this scene right here. This. I'm living this. You know what I'm saying? And so it was just amazing as the movie started to get made and Maria and I started to develop. It was just incredible the way that life imitated art. Art imitated life. And for me, what it did was I was like, oh, yeah, this is definitely a movie God wants to put out there, because this is the area where we lose the most hope in love. And Ruth and Boaz is all about, don't lose hope in love. Don't. Because that's when. When you lose hope and you give up on love, you give up on everything. And so it was amazing to me that Maria and I, you know, were able to, you know, we got engaged and obviously, you know, got married end of last summer of last year. And it's been amazing, man. And so I'm like, yo, y' all need to watch Ruth and Boaz. There's something on that movie. Okay. There's something on that movie. You can stream it on Netflix right now. Okay.
- [56:17]
Lecrae
But it was.
- [56:17]
Devon Franklin
It was cathartic. It was. It was divine. It was a blessing. And I was so grateful to be able. Because, again, going back to truth as a filmmaker.
- [56:27]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [56:28]
Devon Franklin
You know, any movie that I make needs to come from some level of truth. Yeah. And to me, like, literally experiencing what I was experiencing and being able to, you know, provide that authenticity in some ways to the story, and then also for the writers just to be tapped into what they were doing, and then they give it to me, and I'm like, How did y' all know? I didn't tell you this, you know, so it was just one of those divine experiences, man.
- [56:50]
Lecrae
How does she feel about the movie? How Maria feeling?
- [56:51]
Devon Franklin
Oh, man, she loves it. First time I showed it to her, she cried.
- [56:54]
Lecrae
Wow.
- [56:55]
Devon Franklin
She cried. She just was like, oh, my goodness. This is, this is a, this is the story. This is amazing.
- [57:01]
Lecrae
Wow.
- [57:01]
Devon Franklin
You know, I mean, she's been a Christian all her life and to see, you know, that story come to life, I mean, she was the first person I showed it to and, you know, I said, okay, if she crying, then
- [57:10]
Lecrae
that means you might have something.
- [57:12]
Devon Franklin
We might have some.
- [57:13]
Lecrae
You know, is it, is it, you know, with her and you now in a different head space, but you're still in this industry, you're still in this fast paced industry. Is it, do you approach things differently? Does she see it? Is it like, wow, look at all this, or is it kind of like, have you shown her like, everything that glares ain't gold? How does that work?
- [57:38]
Devon Franklin
Well, you know, she's been in the industry, you know, to some, to some degree. You know, she's a trainer and has trained, you know, people of all different walks of life and a number of people in entertainment. So she's had experience in it. So when we came together, it wasn't, it wasn't a new thing. Okay. You know, so there wasn't really like, oh, you know, I, she needs to know this or that. It was more of us coming together and we both have a pretty good understanding of the business and at the end of the day, it was really about like, okay, we understand that, but it's about us.
- [58:05]
Lecrae
That's good.
- [58:06]
Devon Franklin
You know what I mean? It's about nurturing our hearts. It's about providing protection, you know, for our union and pouring into each other and, and no matter what happens in the world, no matter what happens in the, in the business, if we keep that our priority, then everything else, you know, is put in the right perspective. Yeah.
- [58:25]
Lecrae
So Ruth and Boaz.
- [58:27]
Devon Franklin
Yes.
- [58:28]
Lecrae
A relationship movie and then relationship goals.
- [58:33]
Devon Franklin
A relationship goals.
- [58:34]
Lecrae
Safe to say you're like hitting on something that you feel like the culture needs. Why did you decide to work with Mike Todd on relationship goals?
- [58:45]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, you know, I mean, I've known my brother, you know, Mike, man, for years. We met, I think it was like 2019 at a church event and on the Facebook campus, actually, and we met and was like, hey, man, you know, I'm big fan. And we just connected. And then probably about a year later, I saw that his book Relationship Goals, hit the New York Times bestseller. So bestsellers list. And so as a producer, you know, every producer is always looking at the New York Times bestsellers list for books that they can convert into movies. And so when I saw his book hit the New York Times bestsellers list and I saw how many people were talking about it and being affected by the message of it, that's when I hit him up. And it was during COVID I was like, yo, man, have you ever thought about turning this into a movie? And he was like, as a matter of fact, I have. I'm like, oh, really? And he sent me a few pages of an idea on how to, you know, make it into a film. And thankfully, he let me option it, and I put it together with Mike Elliott and Corey Tynan, and we sold it to Amazon and just started developing it. So it was just a very organic process, to be honest with you. And the Relationship Goals book is a book of principles.
- [59:48]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [59:48]
Devon Franklin
There's no narrative there. So that was probably the hardest thing to do, was to figure out, okay, what's the story that we could create that would still be rooted in the principles of the book and honor the book. And that just took years.
- [60:02]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [60:03]
Devon Franklin
So it just. It was just honestly a coincidence that I made Ruth and Boaz and went right into Relationship Goals. That was coincidence. It was. It wasn't planned because I've been developing Relationship Goals before. I made it for five years.
- [60:16]
Lecrae
Wow.
- [60:16]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [60:17]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [60:17]
Devon Franklin
I was developing Ruth and Boaz for a couple months. You know, we did the treatment, did the script. Boom, went and made it, whereas Relationship Goals. I thought I was gonna make Relationship Goals before Ruth and Boaz, but Amazon wasn't ready to make it, so I went ahead and made Relationship. I mean, I made Ruth and Boaz for. For Netflix and then rolled right into Relationship Goals for Amazon. So that. That timing is God.
- [60:36]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [60:36]
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- [62:08]
Lecrae
so I'm gonna be honest with you. I didn't like relationship goals. And let me tell you why. Tell me why I didn't like it because I was not called to be a part of that film. And
- [62:24]
Devon Franklin
man, you know, listen, once met, the man showed up, man. He took your part. You know what I'm saying? He took your part. I'll give you. I'll.
- [62:29]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
You give.
- [62:30]
Lecrae
I will extend grace.
- [62:32]
Devon Franklin
Thank you.
- [62:32]
Lecrae
I will extend grace.
- [62:33]
Devon Franklin
Thank you. Thank you.
- [62:35]
Lecrae
But there, you know, I have seen some people say, of course, the church people, they have their critiques. And I've seen a critique of, like, well, why were they living together in relationship goals? If this is supposed to be a pastor's book about how to do relationships. And I'm curious, like, how you process approaching these types of critiques or things like that. Because, I mean, obviously, you know, if anybody's read your book, the weight, it's vastly different than how things planned, played out in relationship goals.
- [63:18]
Devon Franklin
But yet.
- [63:18]
Lecrae
And still there's a happy ending in relationship goals.
- [63:21]
Devon Franklin
Sure.
- [63:22]
Lecrae
How do you. What would you say to that person who's saying, you know, why they. Why they shacking on relationship goals?
- [63:30]
Devon Franklin
Okay, so this is. Let me try to answer that in a succinct way. Okay, so if we go back to the foundation of our faith, the Bible, how does it start? In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth starts almost from a storytelling standpoint. And so if you were to make the Bible into a movie, there's going to be violence, murder, Incest, adultery, all kinds of things.
- [64:02]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [64:03]
Devon Franklin
And so if, if God, through the experiences that are captured in the Bible, wanted us to have the truth about what it means to operate in virtue versus vice, what it means to operate in spirit versus flesh, if we didn't understand the vice, if we didn't understand the flesh from which the spirit comes from or the virtue comes from, we wouldn't, we wouldn't appreciate it. And so I believe that the Bible is as real and as raw as it is because it helps us understand the message. You know, it does. Like if you go read the story of David, okay, David doesn't. David knocks Goliath out with the stones. But it says, what does he say? He goes to Goliath, takes his own sword, cuts off his head. David takes his head to King Saul and said, oh, is this the one that you were afraid of? Right. Now imagine if that was a made into a movie, that's going to be an R rated scene. Right? So now let me answer your question directly. When I am making a movie, I am making a movie in a way that no matter where somebody is, they can still find themselves and then find a path. So when you look at the relationship goals movie, each one of those women in the film are at different stages and relationships because everybody watching the film is going to be at different stages. And if our content only shows the ideal, but never shows where people may come from, the content's not going to resonate. So having that couple that was making the decision to live together, what did she ultimately do? Because she found the book, she said, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not doing this anymore because this is not the way that it's supposed to be. To me, that's far more empowering than to just make a movie where none of the characters are doing anything wrong or anything. You know, what we may deem, you know, hey, wait a minute, that may not be the way God wants. That movie's not going to resonate. Yeah. It's not going to touch anybody.
- [65:58]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [65:59]
Devon Franklin
And so the goal with making, with storytelling, the same way the stories are in the Bible, telling stories in the form of movies or television shows that can be relevant in culture, resonate, but also maybe provoke thought. So when someone sees relationship goals, you say, wow, okay, man, maybe, maybe I do, maybe I got to fix my aim. And if I fix my aim and I really start to align my love life with God's intent, what does that do for my life? And so that's why, like, when I see Criticisms like that, I say, hey, man, you know, listen, God bless everybody, but I think sometimes we miss the point.
- [66:30]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [66:31]
Devon Franklin
You know, how many people, how many millions of people watch Relationship Goals and said, wow, I'm going to fix my aim there. There have been so many testimonies that have come from that film on what it has done for people's love life, their professional life, their family life, because just that idea of, man, my aim was off. Yeah, I was shooting at the wrong thing. And so for me, when I'm making a film, I want to tell a story that's real so that people can find a place to relate. And then here's where we're going to take you. Here's where we're going to end up. And sometimes, you know, people in the, in, in the faith community, they get it, sometimes they don't. And, you know, I try not to get too high or low based on that, but I will say, y' all like, hey, wait a minute. When was the last, you know, faith based romantic comedy that's ever been made? When was the last one?
- [67:18]
Lecrae
I don't think so.
- [67:21]
Devon Franklin
Then it's like, oh, well, you know, you making a movie and, you know, and it's, and it's. These characters are doing this or it's too much this or too much that. I'm like, y', all, listen, listen. Perfection is you're never gonna find a perfect movie, never gonna happen, because what you like in your movie. I may hate my movie, but what I want is for us, especially as believers, to look at the big picture here. You know, here's a movie that has Christian values that's based upon one of the biggest Christian relationship books in the past 10 years that is on Amazon prime, one of the biggest streamers in the world that is to be celebrated, to be acknowledged and say, wow, look at that. And when you look at the movie, it doesn't, it doesn't pull punches.
- [68:09]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [68:09]
Devon Franklin
At all. It's very clear in its message. So, you know, I, I get worked up about these things because obviously I'm passionate about my movies, I'm passionate about my stories. Man, I don't make nothing I'm not passionate about. Okay. And I'm also passionate about us as a culture and a community doing more to support each other. I think it's in fashion right now, you know, to just tear. Oh, that person I perceive as a Christian. Well, I'm a watch. And they're not doing this and they're not doing that. And so instead of supporting, we tear down, oh, well, that person's not this and that say, well, wait a minute. You know how hard the real podcast needs to be interviewing you. Let's go into the deep with you because all of the things that you've had to do and you're like, hey, I'm trying, I'm carrying the cross. Okay. I'm trying to, you know, be on these, these, in these platforms to, to elevate God. And then the, and then the people that I'm trying to help then are the ones that vilify. So, you know, I understand that and I want to get to a place in our culture where we get back to love, man. It's like, hey, I don't have to agree with every record you produce, with every record that you're on, but I still support you. That's right. You don't have to agree with every movie I make, every, every TV show I make. But you say, hey, that brother is doing something for the kingdom in the culture and I'm going to back him. I'm going to get behind him because of what he's about, because of his mission. And I believe that it's, we, as Christians got behind more of our people, we will see even greater success, we will see even greater impact. And that's one of the reasons why I'm so glad you asked that question. Because it's something I don't get a chance to talk about much. Yeah.
- [69:43]
Lecrae
Have you considered, have you ever considered. Because here's the thing, I could have easily just said, I'm gonna just go into mainstream. I'm not gonna be a faith based rapper. I'm going to swim in all of these waters. And I'm not gonna engage the church. I'll be a Christian, but I'll be a Christian over here engaging this world. And because there's so much judgment over here, I'm not going to engage you anymore. You could very easily just go produce more Karate Kids and still be effective in being used by the Lord in these worlds and in this space. You don't have to promote Karate Kid to Mount Zion Episcopal. Right. Why do you continue doing it if, like, you're still passionate about doing it? Though some people may criticize you, though some people may say, I don't support, you don't have to do it, but
- [70:46]
Devon Franklin
you do do it.
- [70:47]
Lecrae
Why?
- [70:52]
Devon Franklin
At the end of my life, I have to be accountable to God. I've got to stand before him and take account for what he called me to do. So regardless to the people at the end of my life, I can stand before God and say, I did everything you wanted me to do. I didn't take the easy way. I didn't let the judgment or the criticism detour me from being obedient. I'm doing it because this is what God's called me to do. And I think about that. You go back to scripture and the disciples are asking Jesus, well, what's it going to be like at the end times? And one of the things that he tells them in Matthew 25 is, it's going to be like a master who gives his servant gifts. 1, 10, 1 5, you know, 1, 1. And then he goes on a trip, doesn't tell him when he's coming back. And then he comes back. And the one that had the five, he said, look what I did. The one. Excuse me. The one that had the two, look what I did. And the one that had the one. Well, I was afraid, so I didn't do anything with what you gave me. So God said, I'm going to take that one and give it to the one who has the most. And you are banished from my sight. For me, when I stand before him, I want to say, this is what I did with your talents. This is what I did with what you gave me. And I didn't let a comment on TikTok or comments on Facebook, comments on IG. I didn't let the criticism get me out of being obedient. That's why I do it. And I believe that when I get to heaven, there will be people there that say, devon, I saw that movie. If it wasn't for miracles from Heaven, I wouldn't be here. I saw that film. I saw that TV show, and it got me back in a relationship with God, or I didn't know what a relationship God could do. And I read one of your books, you know. So the impact that we have, that's not told here completely. It's not told by the likes, it's not told by the followers. What we're playing for is eternity. And we won't know how these sacrifices were so necessary until we get there.
- [73:06]
Lecrae
That's good.
- [73:07]
Devon Franklin
That's why. So that's why I've got to stay the course. I've got to keep my hand on the plow. I don't care if one person watches it or a million people watch it. If God told me to do it, I'm going to do it.
- [73:17]
Lecrae
That's good, man. Yeah, I will.
- [73:24]
Devon Franklin
I'm okay right now.
- [73:25]
Lecrae
Yeah, we're almost done. I Would just share this with you. My. My mother in law, she's a very stoic person. Right. She doesn't show a lot of emotion. She's been through a lot, and you don't really get to see her emote. Right. She's just. That's not her wiring. Yeah. We don't see her cry. We don't see her, you know, she'll get sick. She'll just kind of stay in her realm. She won't tell you. I'm just that. That generation of stoicism.
- [73:57]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [73:57]
Lecrae
You don't see a lot of emotion. We went to see Breakthrough when, When it. When it debuted, and, you know, I'm just like, yeah, I got a small role in this. Y' all come out. Come, come check your boy out. You know what I'm saying? And I'm sitting next to her, and it was the first time in my life I'd ever seen her cry.
- [74:17]
Devon Franklin
Wow.
- [74:18]
Lecrae
And she sat there and she shed tears.
- [74:21]
Devon Franklin
And I didn't.
- [74:22]
Lecrae
I didn't ask her because that's not her thing to articulate, but I just knew, okay, God's doing something in her heart watching this.
- [74:31]
Devon Franklin
And she said, I just loved it.
- [74:32]
Lecrae
I just loved the film. I just loved it. It just. She didn't express why, you know, but there's a lot of things that have happened in her life, and there's a lot of things she could relate to in that film that I knew, but I didn't bring it up to her. But it's those quiet moments of different people who are experiencing God speak. I mean, God has definitely spoken to me through films my whole life, so.
- [74:53]
Devon Franklin
Yep.
- [74:54]
Lecrae
So, man, I am encouraged to hear you say, like, I just want to continue doing what I was called to do and to put something at the feet of the Father and say, lord, this is what you asked me to do. I want to hear well done.
- [75:09]
Devon Franklin
Exactly.
- [75:09]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [75:09]
Devon Franklin
1,000%.
- [75:12]
Lecrae
Before we get out of here.
- [75:13]
Devon Franklin
Yeah.
- [75:13]
Lecrae
I gotta take you underwater on the deep end. We hit you with some underwater questions.
- [75:17]
Devon Franklin
Okay.
- [75:18]
Lecrae
So I gotta hit you with a couple of these, man, the people want to know.
- [75:21]
Devon Franklin
Okay. Okay.
- [75:22]
Lecrae
People want to know. All right. Rocky. Yes. That's like one of your go to.
- [75:27]
Devon Franklin
Absolutely.
- [75:28]
Lecrae
It's all about overcoming the odds. What is an important moment from your own personal story where you felt the most like Rocky in overcoming.
- [75:39]
Devon Franklin
Oh, man. You know, I think it was. It was that moment, you know, losing to Paramount deal. Okay. And, you know, having no production deal, you know, feeling like, man, my career is on the ropes. Yeah. You know, And I had that prayer, lord, like, you know, I don't even need to make a box office smash. Dear God, I just want to know that this is what you've still called me to. And that's when, you know, Flamin Hot got made. And then a little while after that, that's when I was able to close this deal with Netflix and, you know, to make faith based content. And that was like Rocky, right? Like getting that Apollo Creed opportunity and to go to the distance, you know what I'm saying? And so in that first one, he doesn't end up being a champion, right? But he went the distance and he was able to, you know, have a foundation of respect, and then he becomes the champion in the second one, and then, you know, pretty much is the champion on and off pretty much for the entire series until we get to the Creed movies. And so for me, that was that moment, you know, getting up off the mat and going the distance. You know, I still feel like I haven't had my heavyweight championship when, okay, I feel like I haven't, you know, like I'm in the ring, you know what I mean? And these movies are really great and the stuff I'm able to do is great, but I don't feel like I've had that, like, boom. That was when he became the champ, you know. So as it relates to Rocky, I still feel that Rocky, you know, spirit. I still feel that hunger, you know, and that desire, you know, to maybe one day, you know, have that moment where it's like, okay, all right, bet that's when he won the championship.
- [77:09]
Lecrae
Okay, what's the best Rocky movie?
- [77:12]
Devon Franklin
Oh, the best Rocky movie is going to be. Well, the. The best one critically is the first one.
- [77:21]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [77:21]
Devon Franklin
For sure.
- [77:21]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [77:22]
Devon Franklin
The movie that I love most commercially is the third one.
- [77:26]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [77:26]
Devon Franklin
And the fourth one is. Is a close second. You know, Rocky, you know, fighting Mr. T, you know, I just love that. And Apollo Creed going from being his, you know, rival to being his trainer. Such a great turn. And then, you know, you lose Apollo Creed and Rocky IV and he goes to fight Ivan Drago and all the things in USA versus Russia, that was great. And then in the Creed movies, my first. My favorite one is the first one, you know, which is obviously still a part of the Rocky. Yes, yes.
- [77:55]
Lecrae
There's a lot of relationships. This next question. There's a lot of relationships in the Bible. Is there any other relationships that you would consider making a film about that are biblical?
- [78:05]
Devon Franklin
Yes, the next one that I'm doing. Okay, okay.
- [78:11]
Lecrae
Exclusive.
- [78:15]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, man, I'm working on Samson, Delilah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. You know, I can't. I can't say much more. Yeah, so that. That will one is. You know, I've always loved the story. It's always been one of my favorite, you know, Bible stories. That script, that scripture that says, you know, his hair grew back. Like, oh, man, his power comes back. And so there's. There. I'm working on that.
- [78:39]
Lecrae
Okay.
- [78:39]
Devon Franklin
You know, and it's going to be different than Ruth and Boaz. Okay. But still a love story and. And still a redemptive one, but just in a totally different way.
- [78:48]
Lecrae
Okay. The movie centers it. It comes out as a producer, as a writer, as an actor, director. What does that mean for. I mean, it does have some Christian references, but what does that mean for your world or the world of. Of black people in film that it did what it did?
- [79:16]
Devon Franklin
You know, it means everything. I mean, you know, Coug is just a visionary, you know, once in a generation, you know, type filmmaker and writer. And to have that vision and to be able to render it and for the movie to be so successful commercially and critically, it does a lot for the culture, does a lot for, you know, the community in Hollywood. You know, it just. It continues to remind the powers that be that our stories are worth telling, that, you know, our storytellers are worth, you know, giving platforms to, you know, investing resources in. So, you know, I see Sinners, you know, as a win for everybody. And I just, you know, I'm so grateful that he is doing what he's doing and doing it at the highest level. And that's the thing that. That is so exciting for me. It's like, yo, like, look at this movie. Look at how successful it was. I mean, this is. I mean, and that's the thing, Hollywood, when you celebrate, you know, diversity, when you invest in our stories and our filmmakers, you. You can get, you know, not only just a return on your investment financially, but also a return on your investment culturally. And, I think, sinners and, you know, kook success with it and Michael B. Jordan success with it. You know, congrats to, you know, them from their Oscar wins. It's just, man, it's. It's a win for them and it's a win for us.
- [80:31]
Lecrae
That's great. Last question. The achievement. Addiction. Yeah, man, you've spoken about it, you've wrestled through it, you've worked on it in your own self. At the same time, you're more productive than you've ever been.
- [80:52]
Devon Franklin
What's different now I'll tell you what's different now. The biggest difference is before I needed the achievements to feel secure. Now I feel secure. And out of that the achievements are coming.
- [81:13]
Lecrae
Felt that in my Sha Na Na.
- [81:17]
Devon Franklin
That's, that's the difference. That's the difference. Like I don't, it's like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not chasing the achievement high.
- [81:24]
Lecrae
Yeah.
- [81:25]
Devon Franklin
You know, I'm like, oh, that I made that film that people, that resonated people like, okay, great. You know, but it's all coming from a place of, of being really secure with who I am and from. And also free. Meaning, like one day I'm producing, you know, I'm about to leave to go to Vancouver because I'm acting in a new film. You know, me and Dennis Haysbert who was in Breakthrough. Yeah. It's so amazing. Like I put him in three movies. Flamin Hot Breakthrough and Relationship Goals. And now I'm playing, we're playing father and son in the same film, which is really cool.
- [81:55]
Lecrae
Right.
- [81:56]
Devon Franklin
And then to go from there to like this past weekend I was at Oakwood University, you know, HBCU in, in Huntsville, Alabama and you know, preaching there and you know, doing a meet and greet after. I'm able to do these things because I'm secure and who God called me to be, but I'm also free. I'm free. Like I'm not, I, I'm not limited by your understanding of who I am. Right. Because in one moment I'm going to be something you think I am and then the next moment I'm going to be something totally different. Yeah. And so to be able to be open and to be fluid in that way and to say, okay, well today is the acting day, you know, and this afternoon is producing and tomorrow is going to be on a podcast. Then I get, then I feel like that's when life and God gets really fun. Yeah. Because I don't, you know, I'm open for the adventure. Yeah. You know, so that's where the difference is. I don't need the achievements to feel secure. I feel secure. And from that the achievements come.
- [82:49]
Lecrae
Anything that people need to know. What should they be looking forward to? What should they look out for? Where do they find you?
- [82:55]
Devon Franklin
Yeah, man, you know, I got a new film coming out with Taraji and man, this movie is a tear jerker. Okay. Yes. It'll be on Netflix later this year and you can find me, you know, on social media. I'm on, at Devon Franklin Instagram. You know, Twitter, tick tock, all well, X. You know. You know. Yeah, y', all, y'. All. Y' all know where to find me.
- [83:15]
Lecrae
Okay, y' all stay tuned. Listen, brother, I appreciate you. I love this version of you.
- [83:19]
Devon Franklin
Thank you.
- [83:20]
Lecrae
It's inspiring. It's encouraging, man.
- [83:22]
Devon Franklin
Thank you. I will, man. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me.
- [83:24]
Lecrae
Of course.