← The Deep End With Lecrae
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Religious OCD is. It's called scrupulosity ocd. And it latches on to the thing that you care about most, which is your faith, then convinces you that you got to get everything exactly right to finally have peace. But then the peace never comes. So then the cycle just keeps going. And I just got some good news for you. Okay? The good news is that this isn't a lack of faith. It's a real condition. Highly treatable, Very grateful for no cd. So their licensed therapists specialize in exposure and response prevention therapy. It's the gold standard in treating ocd. They understand that these intrusive thoughts do not define you, and they'll help you work through them while honoring your faith. So if any of this sounds familiar, I don't want you to keep carrying it alone. Go to nocd.com book a free 15 minute call. N o c d.com book a free 15 minute Call. Tell them I sent you.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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As a Christian, Tim Keller was my Michael Jordan. If I have a relationship with God, it's all grace. Listen to his sermons almost every day. Just sermon after sermon of Tim Keller to the point to where I was a fanatic. I couldn't listen enough. I met him one time. I was shaking and I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Tim Keller, like, literally nervous. Like a stripper in church on Sunday. Like, nervous. I had this unique relationship with Kendrick Lamar. I give him reason for God, and he's like, I'm reading through it on this flight right now. Kendrick Lamar is reading Tim Keller. That's how influential he was in my life. Fast forward. Unarmed black people are being killed. And it messed me up, man. It messed me up. It messed me up as a Christian. It messed me up as a black man. It messed me up. During this time period, I stopped listening to Keller. I stopped listening to any theologian who was of European descent. And here's what happened, y'. All. I catch wind of some of the things Keller has been saying during this time period. What I'll say is this. This is the deep end with Lecrae. I was on the brink of divorce, making money, but still didn't understand how to build wealth. Especially I was Empty. And nobody around me knew, because success is really easy to hide behind. You know, from the outside, everything looked like it was working. But then behind the scenes, I was stuck. But let me tell you what stuck actually looks like is when you keep having the same conversations in your relationships and nothing really changes when you make money, but it disappears just as fast as it comes. It's when you feel disappointed, disconnected spiritually, but you don't know how to get back. It's when you tell yourself this year is going to be different, but it ends up looking the same. Now, that's not failure, but what it is, is drift. And drift is dangerous because your life can look fine while slowly losing direction. And that's where I was. And what I had to learn was more effort wasn't fixing it, because effort wasn't a problem. I was living on autopilot. Something in me had to change. That change started when I used my network to gain access to a community of experts, financial leaders, spiritual leaders, therapists, and counsel who showed me what I couldn't see. These people helped me rethink money, rebuild my marriage, and reconnect my faith to real life. So here's what this is. Reconstruct you the space where I'm giving you access to these leaders and their guidance. The people inside this community are called architects because rebuilding your life takes design. Inside, we walk through a process called framework, a simple, practical way to rebuild your faith, your relationships, your money, your. Your purpose. This isn't something you just watch. It's something you walk through with me and side by side with people who are serious about changing. So if your life feels like it's moving but not growing, this is your moment. You can keep drifting or you can rebuild. Click the link. Step inside. Start building your life on purpose. In a year from now, let's see what we got. We stopped last week in our discussion about John Piper, Tim Keller, and Mark Driscoll. I did wrestle a little bit. Was I as fair as I could have been? I was definitely as honest. I couldn't have been more honest in that conversation. And so I've had some time to reflect and think on how to approach this conversation because of that one. I want to be as fair and honest as I can possibly be, especially as I'm talking about individuals who are human. They're endeared by some, they are loathed by others. But I want to be honest about my experiences with them, because that's the thing. The thing is, oftentimes people will say, and I hear this all the time. Like, I don't like Lecrae, right? Like, I hear this from word of mouth. And people will have to say, well, that's not my experience with him. Whatever you're talking about is not my experience with him. And so they can only articulate their experience. Or some people will say, man, he's great, but, you know, someone else's experience is not so great. So I wanted to be honest in my relational dynamics with individuals, we kind of stopped at my interaction and my relationship with Dr. John Piper. And this week, I want to focus on who's it gonna be? Is it gonna be Mark Driscoll? Is it gonna be Tim Keller? Which one is it gonna be? It's gonna be Dr. Timothy Keller. Why am I talking about my relationship with Tim Keller? I think to many of you all, he's a theologian, he's an author, he's a pastor, he's a thinker, he's an influencer. To me, it's way more complicated than that. To me, it's way more dynamic than that. And it's because of my father wounds. My desire to be a missionary in culture, the unique position that I put myself in as an artist and a Christian, and the proximity that I had with him. I've done panels with him, I've written a book with him, I have eaten dinner with him, spent time asking him questions, hard questions, easy questions. I've experienced a lot in that time period. So first, let's start from the beginning. Already established last week that I had a father wound, right? I didn't grow up my biological father. I didn't have good male role models in my life. So it left a gap for me, longing for the approval of men. The men that I gravitated toward as I became more enamored and ambitious with Christianity were thinkers. The first book I read as a Christian was More Than a carpenter by Josh McDowell. Because I was. I was like, if this is real, let me see, you know, So I needed to understand who this God was and really understand what his perspective was. First book I got as a, you know, to put me on some theological train tracks was J.I. packers knowing God Got Me into Desiring God by John Piper. And I had a good friend named Miguel. Miguel was a graduate of Reformed Theological Seminary, and he's from the Bronx, New York. So there was this combination, this justification of high theology and then also a combination of hip hop and coming from an urban context. And so Miguel and I shared this love of hip hop music, of culture and of theology. Now, when Miguel and I met. We met. I mean, he was in all of the worlds you know, coming up, listening to cross movement and, you know, he's Puerto Rican and so coming from the Bronx and just navigating all these different worlds. He ended up going to Reform Theological Seminary. He spent some time studying under the late R.C.
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sproul.
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And so he had this unique dynamic. And I remember myself and Trip Lee were just like, really encouraged at his presence and his desire to just connect. He ended up becoming a part or working at Reach on our nonprofit side. So when you see the 13 letters project that we put out, when you see just our man up curriculum, like, Miguel was behind all of that, helping us to write the curriculum. He was the theologian of the. Of the group, so to speak. Now, when we initially met, Miguel's a hardcore reformed guy. Covenant theologian. Covenant. And I kind of gave some articulation of what the difference between dispensations and covenants were. In the last episode. We didn't necessarily see eye to eye theologically, but we. We appreciated each other, you know, so. But Miguel would allow me to wrestle, push back and ask questions, and he would give me books and recommend sermons and recommend books. Miguel, you know, began to send me these sermons, you know, email me these sermons. And then he began to give me these CD sermons and these emailed scripts, and he gave me a sermon by Timothy Keller. This is right around the time of. My goodness, this is so long ago. I want to say this is like around the time after the music stops, if I'm not mistaken.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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A burst pipe, A dead water heater, the AC calling it quits. Who do you call? HomeServe is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs with plans covering stuff basic homeowners insurance usually won't. Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe. Right now. Go to HomeServe.com podcast for 50% less your first year. That's HomeServe.com podcast savings compared to renewal price void in Florida. I am listening to this Timothy Keller sermon and he's speaking my heart language at this point in time. I've never been on a mission trip Right. Like, I hadn't been on a mission trip, and I was burdened to go. I was passionate about going on a mission trip. And Tim Keller was saying in this particular sermon that what it means to be a missionary and the context of missionaries and understanding what a missionary is. And I was blown away. I couldn't articulate what he was saying in the same way he said it, but it hit me because he was saying that we need to be trained to be missionaries, not trained to be pastors. Right. A lot of times when you learn the Bible, you're taught to be a pastor. The pastor's like, teaching you what he knows instead of teaching you how what he knows can help you be effective in whatever realm of the world you are. And, man, I was blown away. So now I got John Piper, I got Tim Keller in my ear. You put them together, and a song called Send Me comes out, you know, so if you listen to Send Me on after the music stops, you'll hear a lot of Keller, a lot of Piper. Missions exist because worship doesn't. And, you know, just the whole concept of being a missionary. Fast forward. I just kept consuming his sermons because it was like food for me. We moved to Memphis, and I just would listen to his sermons almost every day, just sermon after sermon of Tim Keller to the point to where I could. It was like I was a fanatic. I couldn't listen enough. Now, why did I love what he was writing? A lot of people love him because he was intellectual. He was Reformed or Presbyterian, whatever. I don't know. I loved him because I was living in the worst neighborhood in the city of Memphis, one of the worst neighborhoods. I am in this urban context. I have to figure out how to connect with these people. And Timothy Keller is telling me that we need to be in cities, that we need to express the truth of God in cities that were. So many churches want to go to the outskirts, to the farmlands, to the suburbs, and. And not in the cities. And the cities are like the oil spill, right? A lot of us want to get on the shore and try to clean up the oil spill and keep it from reaching the shores. But what Keller was communicating to us was, no, we need to get inside the tanker and dilute that oil that's coming out of these ships before it hits the animals and hits the shore. Not clean up the oil spill from the shores and going out into the ocean to clean it up, but to be on the oil rig and to dilute that oil. Essentially, what he's saying is, move to the city, move to the hard place, Go to the foreign country, live there, be an influence in the culture, learn the culture. And as they're grasping onto things that are not true, help them see what is true so that they wrestle with it. And you gotta think the first album that I heard that I thought was a Christian rap album was the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. It was the most dilute the culture, the oil spill album you could get. It wasn't this gospel album that, like, lived in the Christian bookstores. It was an album that was in the midst of hip hop, in the midst of culture, and it was challenging people to see things from a different vantage point. Was it leading people to Christ? I don't know. I don't think it gets heralded as one of those albums that has this pivotal Christian, like, you know, evangelical theme to it. No. But it made people consider these spiritual concepts, and it painted a picture of the beauty of God. Keller was able to help me understand these different categories. As a young Christian artist, you just got to think that he's probably the single most influential thinker, theologian that I had experienced from after the music stops all the way up to shoot. Maybe all things work together, so. Before all things work together. So all of those years, Tim Keller had prime real estate in my world, in my life. The irony of it. This is the ironic part. I. If you're a basketball fan, you love basketball. LeBron James is probably pinnacle to you, or Michael Jordan is probably pinnacle to you, or Kobe's pinnacle to you, right? As a Christian. Tim Keller was my Michael Jordan. He was my Kobe. The funniest part about that is I never really had much interaction with this man for the. What is that, 10 years that I was influenced by him, had very little interaction with him. I may have met him one time. I think I did. I met him one time. I was shaking. It was at some, like, dinner, and I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Tim Keller, like, literally nervous. Like. Like a stripper in church on Sunday. Like, nervous, freaking out and y'.
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All.
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I've met so many people, you don't know. I've met everybody. Like I said before, I've met the last three presidents. I've met Beyonce. I've met Jay Z, Michael Jordan. None of them shook me in the way that Tim Keller shook me. That's how influential he was in my life at the time. The irony is I'm learning from him. If you listen to Church Close, Volume one on misconceptions, I said, pick up the Reasons for God by Timothy Keller and read it. Hip hop was literally picking up the Reason for God by Timothy Keller and reading the book because I said it. This mixtape that I put out crashed DatPiff's website like a hip hop website. People from all over the world are downloading this mixtape, listening to a song, and I'm getting emails and text in messages online saying, I picked up this book. I had this unique relationship with Kendrick Lamar. Me and Kendrick are talking. I'm like, bro, I give him reason for God. And he's like, I'm reading through it on this flight right now. Like, Kendrick Lamar's reading Tim Keller. And that's what I'm saying. That's how influential he was in my life. Now you Fast forward, it's 2016. Maybe unarmed black people are being killed now, first of all, this has been happening for centuries. It's not new. It's just being videoed. And we're seeing it. We're traumatizing ourselves by watching this interaction take place. And it messed me up, man. It messed me up. It messed me up as a Christian. It messed me up as a black man. It messed me up as somebody who was raised by an activist, it messed me up. Now a lot of people think I just immediately got political and I decided, like, oh, well, let me just become a leftist, a Marxist in ethnos. What is it? Ethnic preacher, ethnic gospel? Ethnic gospel, ethnic Marxist, or whatever the terminology that I was called. That's not the case. The case is, y', all, I grew up in lower working class black communities. I went to some of the most hood schools for the first half of my life. These people that were being killed were cousins to me. You know, like, these were like neighbors. I wasn't seeing them as criminals and thugs and gangsters. And like, you gotta remember, as a 10 year old, I'm walking the line in prison to go visit family members. Folks see criminality. I see cousins and uncles. So there's a different connection. You also have to consider the fact that the black community is very communal. Minorities in general are just communal. So I'm processing all of this and it bothered me. Now, I'm not saying it is the responsibility of every pastor to address my concerns. It's not what I'm saying because people want me to address their concerns all the time. People are saying, hey, Lecrae, why don't you talk about the whales? Or why don't you talk about Colombia or Venezuela, whatever, you know, listen, it is not my responsibility to have to have something to say about everything that's going on in society or in the world. But at that time, it deeply disturbed me that the pastors and theologians that I was very interested in were not vocal about what I was seeing in society. Right. It bothered me greatly, you know, and I'm not talking about Tim Keller or John Piper specifically, but there were plenty other guys that I followed that weren't saying a word. And I was like, yo, what the heck is going on? So I was very discouraged. And then another apologist that I really looked up to went on a tirade and slandered me for caring and posting about Mike Brown and being. I went to the memorial for Mike Brown. What kind of Christian. This is what I didn't understand. What kind of Christian is mad at another Christian for going to the memorial of someone who was killed? Right. Like, what is that? That's crazy. So me being at the memorial signal to people I'm a leftist and a Marxist, and not that I mourn and I grieve the loss of life, especially the loss of life from a disenfranchised community, Especially loss of life from someone from my cultural context. It'd be like me being Japanese and some Japanese kid was killed and I wanted to go pay homage. Right? And so people were frustrated at me for being there. They were mad. They called me a traitor, all these different things. And I was slandered. And y', all, in this time period, I got bitter, I got angry. I began to push away from God. I did, because I was just like, it doesn't make sense to me. I started reading James Baldwin more and just people who are frustrated at the church for their lack of involvement in civil issues, civil rights issues. So what does it have to do with Tim Keller? Well, during this time period, I stopped listening to Keller, I stopped listening to Piper. I stopped listening to any theologian who was of European descent for a multitude of different reasons. Right? So one, I'm bitter and I'm mad, Right? So it doesn't justify hatred. But for two, I don't wanna. I'm scared of myself. I'm scared that I will unknowingly become a mascot for evangelicalism and an echo chamber for people who don't care about me. In the black community, that's called being an Uncle Tom. And I was afraid of that. I was afraid that I could blindly have an allegiance to people who treated me well, who paid me well, who gave me plenty of opportunities, but were unconcerned with the community that I come from in the context that I was in. And I was like, I don't want to become the type of person that has a blind allegiance to people who don't care about the issues that I care about. And it benefited me to turn a blind eye to the social issues and just say, well, I'm just going to focus on this. As people say, just focus on the gospel. There are implications and applications of the gospel that should impact our culture, but that's a whole nother story. So I didn't want to be seen as that. And it's tone deaf. In a time period where black Christians, especially black Christians who are in evangelical spaces, are hurt by the lack of care, concern, and voice of our white brothers and sisters, it'd be tone deaf for me to repost the Tim Keller quote, right? I just would. It wouldn't even. It'd be like, what are you doing now? To my detriment as well. I'll be honest. There was a fear of man as well. I don't want to be seen as a sellout. I don't want to be a sellout, but I don't want to be seen as a sellout. So what if Tim Keller says something that's absolutely true, but I don't want to post it because I don't want people to think I'm a sellout. So I'm wrestling with that as well. So this is all the conundrum of the things that I'm processing in this time period. So I have no idea what Keller's saying, what he's doing, none of that, because I'm not paying attention anymore. My arms are folded. I took my ball and I went home. I began to punt the faith. I went through what people would call a deconstruction, disorientation, however you want to articulate it. I call it a disorientation because I was disoriented and I wasn't paying attention. And here's what happened, y', all, as I began, as God began to draw himself toward me or draw me toward himself during this time period, I was only listening to because I was ashamed of myself. I was ashamed of how many black theologians I didn't know, how many authors I hadn't read. You know, I was ashamed that I didn't know who Francis Grimke was, you know, that I had never read the Miseducation of the Negro, but I had read Calvin's Institutes. I had to grow in those particular areas, and I had to rebalance and read some works from some Christians who had been through what I've been through, some African American Christians. Now, as I'm coming back around, as the Lord is growing me, I catch wind of some of the things Keller has been saying during this time period and that he was vocal and that he took a stand and that he was involved and that he said things that rubbed people on the political right the wrong way. And I was like, what? I didn't know he said these. I didn't know he. Well, of course he had something to say. He works in cities which are full of diverse populations. He's not placating to one side or the other. He is aligning himself with the truth. Oh, my goodness. There's a third way, the way of the truth. There is people who choose an empire, the right empire, the left empire, and people who choose the kingdom, which is the middle road. Now, if you choose the kingdom, there are going to be things that you do that are going to seem like you're aligning with the right, and there's going to be things that seem like you're aligning with the left. You're caring for some conservative values. You know, the idea of, you know, men and women being married, and that's what a marriage is according to the scriptures. That's a conservative value that people say, oh, you align with the right. The care of unborn children being and saying, no, their lives matter. Okay, you're caring about right issues, but then you care about the poor. You care about the downtrodden, the disenfranchised. You care about communities that are not getting justice. Those are leftist issues, but really both of them are biblical issues. And I began to see, like Dr. Keller's voice in this middle realm.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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A burst pipe, a dead water heater, the AC calling it quits. Who do you call? HomeServe is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs with plans covering stuff basic homeowners insurance usually won't. Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe right now. Go to HomeServe.com podcast for 50% less your first year. That's HomeServe.com podcast savings compared to renewal price void in Florida now, to be fair, to be fair, he's coming from a cultural context. He doesn't see everything clearly. He does not have the monopoly on truth. But I will say, of all the Reformed thinkers that I came into contact with, this man was one of the most genuine and concerned and trying to process it clearly. Of all that I had been exposed to, I was so blown away. I was extremely grateful for him during that time period, extremely grateful for his voice. I wasn't reposting him. I wasn't retweeting them, because I still had some trauma I was processing and working through, but I was following, I was tracking. And I didn't realize that he was being scrutinized, that his own conservative evangelical reform community had problems with him and would say he was a compromiser. And I was like, wow, what he's saying is brilliant. And as the years went on and I got healthier and I started feeling more comfortable, we began to cross paths, and we did a panel discussion together. And after the panel discussion, I got to just talk with him, and I won't reveal all that he said, but what I'll say is this. He was a wise man because he calculated what needed to be said that was helpful versus what needed to be said that was a better way to articulate this. There were views he had that he felt like this would cause more harm than good. This is a little more trivial. I'm just using this as an example. It's a trivial example, but I'm going to use it for him to say, which I'm not saying he said this, I'm just saying as an example for him to say. I don't fully agree with a lot of these Reformed thinkers, but I agree with them more than I don't. For him to say that will cause more harm than good in a particular time in a particular context. So he was like, I'm not saying that it's not helpful in this particular environment or this. And I began to see more of his perspective in his heart. And I was like, this man is so wise. He started giving me frameworks, y'. All. A framework for how to be an artist, a framework for how to approach art and culture. And I just began to tap in and I began to listen, and I began to take his recommendations and take the courses and the classes that he would recommend, and I began to devour a lot of his teachings and writings. And it was one of the best articulated perspectives that I had for how I was seeing the world from an intellectual perspective, y'. All. I personally believe he will go down in history as one of the great western Christian thinkers. And the way we see a CS Lewis, I believe we'll see a Tim Keller. In the grand scheme of things. I think he was that brilliant, he was that wise. He was navigating things so well. And it's not just because I got time with him. As we got more time together, you know, I was invited to be a part of a writing camp with him and to co write a book with him and some other authors. And that time was magnificent because it was concentrated time with him to just sit there and wrestle and process and him letting his hair down a little bit and just being casual and articulate some things. And I was also in a healthier place where I did not want to impress this man. If he would have caught me younger, more like, oh, my God, in awe, I would have just wanted to impress him. I would have said the right things. But he caught me after I've been through some junk, and I didn't care about impressing Tim Keller. I cared about, hey, bro, this is where I'm at. What you got for me? This is what I'm struggling with, what you got for me? And I would say he was kind. And I would say, you know, he made statements and stood up in ways that a lot of other people I don't think would have, that were costly. Now, does that mean he's perfect? Absolutely not. He's still a white male in New York City preaching to people who are probably very financially well off. But I saw him invest in pastors in the Bronx, shout out to Pastor Demas in Harlem, and so on and so forth. So I saw him say, hey, you can go where I can't go, so let me invest in your church and invest in what you got going on. But, yes, I mean, yes, he had a cultural advantage that he could, but he could have just turned a blind eye and said, listen, not my problem, not my issue, and I'm moving forward. I. I've seen him invest in people, my friends, they have gotten salaries and bills paid. Now, the infrastructure and the world that he works in, yes, it still has its issues. I'm not here to say it doesn't have its issues. I'm not here to say that evangelicalism is not an industrial complex that is oftentimes very particular, that is not empathetic, and that highlights and heralds white males more than anybody else does, more than anyone else. I won't say, like, more than anybody else does. They highlight white males more than they would highlight black males or women, black or white or Asian or Hispanic. I'm not saying that's not true. That is true. I'm just saying I saw somebody working within that system with integrity and who was not, in my experience, was not manipulated by the lure and the allure of esteem and money and all of the particular things. He really wanted to reach people. This man was a missiologist. There's a difference between a missiologist and a missionary. A missiologist is somebody who really studies the culture and gives you the tools to navigate it. Now, he was a nerd, too, y'. All. Dr. Keller was a nerd. Like, a nerd's nerd. Like, I thought he was a nerd. Cause when you listen to his sermons and stuff, like, he makes a couple jokes here and there, and you're like, ah, that's good. And then he talks about some deep stuff. The stuff he's talking about in his sermons is, like, surface level to what he really. How he really thinks. Like, he has dumbed that down. As rich as that is, he has dumbed that down from the way his brain really works. Man's a nerd. Like, speaks Elvish. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that. I don't know if that's supposed to be said, But Elvish is the language. Like Lord of the Rings. He speaks it. He studied it. That's nerdom. I mean, this. If he would be playing Dungeons and Dragons, like, collecting Pokemon cards, like, he's. He be that guy. So for sure. But at the same time, so culturally relevant, so humble to listen to the voices of people who were walking in worlds he wasn't walking in. So authentic to. And just to bring me in, y'. All, I'm a black kid from nowhere who had no seminary degree. And this man's like, let's write a book together. Word. What does that say? I'm a rapper. He saw more than a rapper. He saw more than just somebody who could articulate words in song. He saw the thoughts, the articulation, the hurt, the pain and the expression of it all and said, hey, come write a book with me. And that's goals. So for me, I'll be honest with you, man. When I die, I won't be without my faults, but I hope that I'll die. And people will say, you know, that was a man with integrity. That was a man who walked what he talked. He was not perfect. He got it wrong. He didn't see it clearly all the time. But he walked the talk. That's Tim Keller for me. You can say what you want. You can say I'm placating. You could say that I am enamored by the white gaze. You could say that I have this affinity for Reformed Presbyterian views. You could say whatever you want to say about me. But my experience and exposure to Dr. Timothy Keller made me a better Christian. I can't argue that at all. I am. I'm better because of his existence.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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The freedom of self forgetfulness. You know, you hear the quote, humility is not thinking less of yourself is thinking of yourself less. Like that is the premise of the book. But it's important as an artist. Like, that's why KB and I had the conversation we had where we talked about humility and not trying to be superstars. Like people will assume I'm motive and assume I'm trying to be famous and all these things and want. I would rather be affirmed by pastors and theologians than by celebrities any day. But that's not here or there. The point is that that book was like the foundational training wheels for us to operate in Humility. The other thing I'll say, is this the darkest time of my life? You know, I'm going through it, man. This is as I'm trying to turn the corner. Struggling with really bad depression and anxiety, like, super, super bad. I had to stop making music. I had just got invited to do a panel discussion with Charlamagne Tha God. And I believe it was like, T.D. jakes and somebody else. It may have been like, Taraji P. Henson or something like that. I can't remember who it was. It was big. And I had to turn it down because I just wasn't right. I was struggling. I was like, I gotta get out of here, right? So my wife and I, we take a trip. We had a friend of ours graciously said, y' all can use our condo in Mexico, and y' all can go out there and just get some time so I can recalibrate and heal. So I'm packing up. I did the worst thing you could possibly do, right? Because I wasn't able to sleep. And, you know, I would sleep, like two hours a night and just pop up, you know, my anxiety was just killing me. And so I said, well, maybe if I stay up for 24 hours, I'll be so sleepy. If you wrestle with anxiety or depression or mental health, like, definitely do not. Your brain needs sleep for it to heal. So I stayed up 24 hours, and I was a disaster. I'm having panic attacks on the plane. I'm having disassociation in the airport. Like, I'm having an out of body experience. It's the worst ever. Well, before I leave to go to Mexico, in the mail is a book from Dr. Timothy Keller, and it's Prodigal Prophet. I take this Prodigal Prophet book with me. It's a story of Jonah, and I take it with me to Mexico. And I get to Mexico and I get in my room, and the Prodigal Prophet is obviously, it's about Jonah and him being this prodigal prophet that God had to bring back to him, right? Like, he was. You know, he was like, I'm gonna do it my way. And God's like, come here. Doing it your way is gonna create problems for you. And that's essentially what was going on for me. Doing it my way was creating problems for me. So I'm out here in Mexico, got the Prodigal Profit. I get to our hotel room or the condo, and I'm reading Prodigal Profit. And he's just talking about Jonah and how he was running from God and the whale swallowed him. And I'm just struggling, and I'm like, God, I'm doing so bad. I'm just struggling. I'm in tears. I'm having, like, ideations of unaliving myself. Like, it was bad, y'. All, Bad. And I'm just like, yo, I am down bad right now. You know, I had been given some medication from a doctor to just, like, calm me down, and it wasn't even working. That's how bad it was. So I'm reading this book, and it was soothing me because it was like, hey, you know, Jonah was in the worst case. He was like, hey, just take my life. Like, I'm done. Imagine the mental state Jonah had to be in and say, just. Just kill me. Just kill me. So I'm reading the book, and I'm like, God, please help me. And I look out the window to my right, and I see water shooting up out the ocean, just like a geyser coming out the ocean. And I'm like, oh, great. I'm. I'm going crazy now. I'm going crazy. I'm seeing things. And as I'm sitting there reading this book about a prophet being swallowed by a whale, a giant fish, that geyser coming out of the water emerges, and it is a whale. And I look to my left, and sitting on the counter next to my Bible is a stuffed whale that was just in the condo. And I just broke down and cried. Y', all, that book was a catalyst for changing the course of my life from that moment to this moment. You know, that was, like, almost 10 years ago. But that book is like a. It's like a stone of remembrance for me. Like, I'll never not appreciate that book. One of the worst seasons of my life. It's the voice and the writing of Dr. Tim Keller that got me out of the dark place. So, honestly, y', all, I have nothing negative to say for a man who transformed my entire life. I don't know your issues with him. Maybe you love him as much as I do. Maybe you've got issues. I don't know. I can't validate any of the struggles that you may have had. I can only tell you in my time and my experience, that was a great godly man who impacted my life to no end. My next conversation about Mark Driscoll will probably be a little different. Stay tuned to watch that one. And hey, also, I'll just say this, y'. All, if y' all are in a dark space, like, I've been in a dark space, make sure you tap into our community. Reconstruct U. You can go to start.restruct u. Well-the letter u.com or just Google. Reconstruct you. Lecrae. We want to reconstruct your faith, your marriage, your mindset. You may be stuck. You may be in a dark place. This place is for you. There are people in our community who are like, man, I don't even know what I believe right now. I'm just struggling. And, man, it's been a blessing to walk with them. You know, we meet up online. We're going to meet up in person as well. We do daily devotionals. We have tools, resources, videos. You get episodes of the deep end that are not seen anywhere else. And you get the voices of a lot of leaders and thinkers, authors, you know, do zooms. We'll have Dr. Philip Anthony Mitchell, Serita Lyons and plenty other people. So, man, make sure y' all tap in. I appreciate y' all stay tuned. Cause the Mark Driscoll journey is a ride. It's a ride and it's much different. So I'll see y' all next week. God bless. This is the deep end with Lecrae.
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