John Bevere Challenges Lecrae On The End Times

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Deep End With Lecrae Episode: John Bevere Challenges Lecrae On The End Times Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The Deep End With Lecrae" is a deep, vulnerable exploration of the End Times—a subject often either obsessed over or avoided in Christian circles. Host Lecrae sits down with renowned author and preacher John Bevere, whose decades in ministry have recently driven him to explore and write about the Second Coming of Christ after years of sidestepping the topic. Together, they dive into biblical prophecy, the purpose and wisdom behind anticipation for Christ’s return, and how this anticipation should affect a believer’s daily life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why John Bevere Avoided the End Times Topic

• Bevere initially avoided discussing End Times for decades because he believed it bred argumentativeness, laziness, and a lack of urgency in Christians (05:28).
• Five years ago, God challenged him to dive deep into the topic. This led to thousands of hours of personal study and spiritual transformation.
• He found himself more passionate about ministry and winning souls, and even noticed positive changes in his relationships.

"I thought it produced people that were very argumentative... lazy... and not urgent about being diligent in what they were created to do. All of that was wrong."
— John Bevere (05:28)

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2. The Second Coming: Central Biblical Theme

• Statistical Significance: The second coming is the second most written-about subject in the Bible; 318 verses in the New Testament refer to it (08:11).
• Comparison to Jesus’ First Coming: Bevere draws parallels between confusion and controversy at Jesus’ first coming with ongoing debates about the second.

"We’ve seen ambiguity, controversy, uncertainty, mockery. Did we see all of that in the first coming? We actually did."
— John Bevere (08:43)

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3. Preparation Over Prediction

• Bevere emphasizes preparation for Christ’s return, rather than attempting to predict dates or getting lost in signs and timelines.
• Drawing from biblical weddings and academic exams, he stresses the lengthy and intentional nature of preparation versus the brief event itself (16:53, 18:02).

"It took me 20 minutes to go find out what day and time my finals were. I spent months... preparing."
— John Bevere (18:02)

• The call is for active, passionate living (“stay dressed for service,” Luke 12) instead of passive or fearful anticipation.

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4. Eager Expectation & Personal Holiness

• The concept of being eager for Christ’s return runs throughout the New Testament; Bevere links this anticipation to personal purity and motivation for holy living (13:38, 19:39).

"All who have this eager expectation in them purify themselves, even as he is pure."
— John Bevere, quoting 1 John 3:2 (18:45)

• Practically, this means living each day as if Christ could return tonight, while planning for the long term ("live like he’s coming back tonight; plan like he’s not coming for 200 years").

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5. What Does It Mean to “Prepare”?

• Preparation encompasses both lifestyle (purity, resisting temptation) and calling (obedience, mission).
• He cautions against both legalism and complacency, rooting holiness in gratitude and intimacy with Christ (53:56).
• The ultimate goal is confidence and joy at Christ's return, not shame (24:55, 27:37).

"Do I want to be caught ashamed? Because there are two responses by Christians when Jesus appears: shame, [or] confidence."
— John Bevere (21:17, 24:55)

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6. Is the Return of Christ “Soon”? How Soon?

• Both host and guest address skepticism about the biblical language of “soon.” Bevere approaches this with a mix of faith and calculation (36:19).
• He proposes, based on scriptural and historical analysis, that the “generation” beginning with the 1967 recapture of Jerusalem by Israel could be significant, possibly making the prophetic window for Christ’s return extend up to around 2070 (39:47–44:20).
• He stresses that no one knows the day or hour—clarifying this is not a prediction but a call to alertness (40:05, 44:03).

"I am not saying he’s coming back in 2070... But I am saying sometime between tonight, right now, and 2075, I believe he’s coming back."
— John Bevere (44:34)

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7. The Rapture: A Trigger Word

• Lecrae brings up the controversial “rapture” term, which Bevere intentionally omits from his book to avoid semantic debates (52:12).
• Bevere explains the actual Greek and Latin roots (“harpazo” and “raptus/raptomir”), noting the doctrine’s historical roots precede the 19th century (50:24–52:25).

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8. Hope, Grace, and Transformation for Struggling Listeners

• Both address listeners who may feel discouraged or “too far gone.” Bevere stresses God’s readiness to forgive and restore (32:24–33:10).
• He illustrates that personal intimacy with Christ, not legalistic fear, is the motivation for holy living.

"If holiness is the end goal, we’ll end up legalistic. But if we realize holiness is the door into something else—it’s the doorway into intimacy."
— John Bevere (53:56)

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9. Ending Thoughts on Unity and Preparation

• Even within his own home, Bevere notes, there’s debate about End Times details, underscoring the importance of unity over division (56:40).
• The episode closes with the encouragement to “stay ready” and to focus on a motivated, grateful, and obedient Christian life, balanced between scriptural seriousness and humility (55:21, 57:24).

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Memorable Quotes With Timestamps

• [08:11] John Bevere: "There’s 318 verses alone in the New Testament. That’s one out of every 30 verses... Only four books in the New Testament don’t talk about the second coming."
• [13:38] John Bevere: "He was devout and he was eagerly waiting for Messiah to come."
• [16:53] John Bevere: "What this is more about is being prepared... The marriage of the Lamb has come and his bride has made herself ready."
• [19:39] John Bevere: "I want to live like He’s coming back tonight. I want to plan like He’s not coming back for 200 years."
• [24:55] John Bevere: "There are two responses by Christians when Jesus appears: shame, confidence."
• [32:24] John Bevere: "You wouldn’t be listening to this if you’ve gone too far. The very fact that you are listening... tells me the Holy Spirit still working on your heart."
• [36:19] Lecrae: "Soon is soon. 2,000 years is soon? 100 years is soon?"
• [44:03] John Bevere: "I believe in your children’s generation, He will be back."
• [53:56] John Bevere: "If holiness is the end goal... we’re going to end up legalistic. But if we realize holiness is the door... into intimacy..."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:28] Why Bevere avoided teaching on the End Times
• [08:11] Biblical centrality of the Second Coming
• [16:53] Eagerness to prepare, not predict
• [19:39] The power of eager expectation
• [24:55] Shame or confidence at the Return
• [32:24] Assurance for struggling Christians
• [39:47–44:20] Calculating a “generation” and prophetic window
• [52:12] The rapture: language and history
• [53:56] Holiness as intimacy, not legalism
• [56:40] Unity amidst end-times disagreements

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Final Thoughts

This episode presents a passionate and scripturally-rooted vision for how discussing the End Times can spark urgency, purity, and devotion—not fear, passivity, or division. Through Bevere’s personal story, biblical insight, and honest engagement with skepticism, “The Deep End” offers encouragement for Christians to live watchfully, gratefully, and ready—whatever their view on the “timing” of the End may be.

"If you stay ready, you ain’t got to get ready."
— Lecrae’s Grandmother (55:21)

Transcript

[John Bevere]

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[John Bevere]

Jesus said, I don't know when I'm coming back. The angels don't know the day or the hour when I'm coming back. However, Jesus said, we know the season and generation. And that gets my attention. It's the second most written about subject in the entire Bible. So here's where my mind goes. God, what's the wisdom behind this? Why would you talk about this so much?

[Lecrae]

Just to be clear, what you're not saying is because he's coming back. Ring the alarm, Hide your wife, hide your kids. Pack extra lunches.

[John Bevere]

No, we should be more busy. When does the person run the fastest on a 5k race? Toward the end, when he sees the finish line. See, here's the problem with the second coming. We made it an event. It's not an event. It's the wedding of the ages.

[Lecrae]

Paul said he was coming back in Thessalonians soon.

[John Bevere]

What'd he say?

[Lecrae]

Soon is soon. 2,000 years is soon. 100 years, essentially. When is Jesus coming back?

[John Bevere]

I believe this is the deep end with Lecrae.

[Lecrae]

All right, so we have had this incredible individual here before, but the, the. That wasn't enough time because he's got, you know, 40 years of, of wisdom and insight to give. More than that, actually. But I'm just, I'm being generous or not being generous, but there's. There's a lot of people who've done ministry their whole lives, and you can Tell not because they perform it, but because they just live it. And I would say that John Bevere is definitely one of those people. Written 25 books, tens of millions of copies, 133 languages. One of his most famous books, the Bait of Satan, wrote over 30 years ago, and it's more relevant now than it's ever been. His organization, messenger internationals, put over 63 million resources in the hands of pastors and 233. 30 nations. So he's walking the talk, man. He's been around the world and back, and I actually want to dig into something with him today that he's actually spent 40 years avoiding talking about. And. And that is. You ready? The end times, the second coming, the Antichrist, the Mark of the beast, all the things that the church either obsesses over or will not touch at all. And so, man, John has spent the last five years going deep into all of that. He just wrote a book called the King Is Coming. And, you know, I have not fully settled my position on my end times, so I love hearing what people say, especially when they use scripture. And I want to understand it from somebody who's thought about it longer than I've been making music, so. Ladies and gentlemen, John Bevere Le Cry.

[John Bevere]

It's so good to be back with you again.

[Lecrae]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Bevere]

I have to say, we just had dinner together.

[Lecrae]

We did.

[John Bevere]

And it was so delightful.

[Lecrae]

It was great.

[John Bevere]

You know, I love your heart. You're so tender, man, and yet you are so passionate, and I'm so proud of you. I. Can I say this? I mean, I'm a few years older than you.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

I'm proud of you.

[Lecrae]

Thank you.

[John Bevere]

Thank you for representing Jesus so well and touching so many lives.

[Lecrae]

Oh, man, I appreciate that. I'm honored. I mean, the last episode, I walked away feeling so encouraged and just like I garnered so much perspective and wisdom in your whole. Your team, your family, everybody has been, like, just incredibly gracious and loving and kind.

[John Bevere]

We love you.

[Lecrae]

Well, I appreciate it. It means the world. Sincerely. It means the world.

[John Bevere]

So I told you last time, though, I was like, I never listened to you because I wasn't a rap type guy.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Bevere]

But I like the man, lrae.

[Lecrae]

I appreciate that.

[John Bevere]

And I know he's gifted.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

But I like the man.

[Lecrae]

I appreciate that. Sincerely. I'm grateful. And like I was saying last time we spoke, it was like drinking from a fire hydrant, but in a good way. You know what I mean? It was like, wow, Perspectives that I needed that I didn't know, I needed. And you have so much wisdom. But the wisdom that you have in this particular area has been something that's been kind of under wraps in terms of, like, talking to the world about it. You've been kind of, you know, very much so. Yeah. Avoiding this subject.

[John Bevere]

Yes.

[Lecrae]

You've actually bragged about avoiding this subject.

[John Bevere]

I actually did. What?

[Lecrae]

Why is that? And what.

[John Bevere]

So I didn't like what I. I thought it produced. And I'm gonna say I thought, okay, I thought it produced people that were very argumentative. I thought it produced people that were lazy. And I also felt it produced people that weren't urgent about planning and future and being diligent in what they were created to do and put on this earth to do. All of that was wrong because I experienced it my life. About five years ago, it was 2021, God spoke to me and said, son, I really want you to dive in. I really felt this tug in my heart. And lecrae. I didn't spend hundreds of hours. It's over a thousand hours. I mean, and it might be thousands. But I started every. Every chance I got, I was in gyms, in cars, on planes, and just studying, studying, studying. And what I started noticing in my life is that I got more passionate in a very pure way about ministry and about people I had never experienced. Like, I. I have a routine. I go out and pray at the tennis courts every morning at 5. Between 5 and 5:30, I'm out there, right? I'm usually up between 4:30 and 5. And by the time I get out there, it's 5 to 5:30. And I had never before experiencing weeping to weeping to win souls to Jesus. I came home and I was in tears. And I said to my wife, all I want to do is win souls. Well, I also found that my wife started saying to me, john, you're my favorite husband. I said, what in the world does that mean? And she said, well, I like the 2.0 version better than the 1.0. And then my family, they said something one day. They said, dad, you seem to be getting softer. You're still as intense, but you seem to get softer. You're not getting upset at things as much anymore. And I knew it was because of how much I had poured into the second coming. But I found out the wisdom behind it. I'm the guy that the Lord knows he's got to show his wisdom behind things before I really, really buy in. Does that mean. Does that make sense? Yeah. Now, don't get me wrong, he has Spoken to me to do things before where I didn't understand or have the wisdom. And I just said, yes sir. But I'm always the guy that's like, lord, I want to know why. And so the first thing, the first thing that I found out as far as what I discovered is the second coming. It's the second most written about subject in the entire bible.

[Lecrae]

Oh wow.

[John Bevere]

Second. Okay, okay. There's 318 verses alone in the New Testament. That's one out of every 30 verses. Only four books in the New Testament don't talk about the second coming. Three of them are one chapter books. Philemon, second and third, John and Galatians is the only multi chapter book that doesn't talk about it. It is the most, the Seven Year Tribulation is the most written about time period in all of scripture, more so than three half years Jesus ministered on the earth. I mean, stop and think about that one. It is the second most subject written about by the early church fathers. There are 300 prophecies about Jesus first coming. There are over 2,400 prophecies about his second in the Bible. Okay, all right, so here's where my mind goes. God, what's the wisdom behind this? Why would you talk about this so much? And second, if you talk about this so much, why aren't I talking about this? In fact, why am I avoiding this? And so what I felt the Holy Spirit told me to do, Lecrae, is go back and look at the first coming. So what we've seen in the second coming is ambiguity, controversy. We've seen uncertainty, we've seen mockery. Did we see all of that in the first coming? We actually did. Right. So Winston Churchill made this statement. I love this statement. He said those, he said it to the House of Commons in 1948. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So I go back and I said, who got it right on his first coming and who didn't?

[Lecrae]

That's a good one.

[John Bevere]

And what's the difference? Yeah, so the obvious ones that got it wrong are the Pharisees. Okay? Now let's not throw stones at them too fast. To be a Pharisee, you had to quote from memory the first five books of the Bible. Do you know how many less ministers we would have today if we had to quote Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and Acts? Just, it would be, it would be an eighth. Right, okay. So these guys were diligent, yet they can't recognize the son of God when he's raising the dead at 30 years of age. Now, I want to introduce a new group of people that we didn't know much about until 1948, and that is the Essenes. The Essenes were a group of people that got a little perturbed at the corruption in Jew in the spiritual leadership in Israel. So 150 years before Jesus was born, they went out to this desert, this desert place, and created a community called Qumran, and which we've heard of, the caves of Qumran where they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[John Bevere]

Well, these guys were really serious about the Jewish father's writings, the scriptures. And so a lot of Bible, Bible scholars believe that John the Baptist was in a scene. He was in the deserts until the day of his manifestation. Right. Well, even more believe that Simeon was in a scene. Now, who is this guy Simeon? Let me set this up. Joseph's probably in his early 20s, Mary's in her late teens. They come from another state. I'm going to put it in our language. Okay, so we're in Atlanta. They come from Tennessee down to Georgia because the temple's in Atlanta. Okay, so the temple wasn't one building, it was buildings. And there were masses of crowds in there. On any given day, this young couple comes in with a 40 day old baby, completely unknown to anybody in that temple. This guy Simeon does a beeline right to them, holds up their 40 day old baby and cries out the Messiah. Mary and Joseph are literally blown away. All right, what is it about this guy? Well, we only get one verse of scripture that gives us insight. He was a righteous man. This is Luke 2. 25. He was devout and he was eagerly waiting for Messiah to come.

[Lecrae]

That's right.

[John Bevere]

Those are the three things. Number one, righteous means he. He was a man that took obeying God seriously. Devout means he feared God. In other words, he wasn't scared of God. As we talked about in the last podcast, he was terrified of being away from God. He took obedience to God seriously. So he wasn't like John Bevere who said, oh, when he comes, it will just all pan out. I was the pan theology before I really started diving in. The third thing, he was eager about the coming. Now why is eager important? It's a Greek word, prostectomy. Because if you carry it over to what Jesus tells you and I to do about his second coming, you see striking similarities. Number one, Jesus tells us in Luke 12 to stay dressed for service. In other words, doing what you're doing, doing what we're all doing. We are busy about obeying God and building his kingdom. We're dressed for service, keep our lamps burning. The parable of the virgins. We could talk about that a little bit. But the big one, he said, is, you be like men who are eagerly waiting for your master's return. Now, I added in the word eager. And the reason I did, it's the same Greek word that describes Simeon. It's the Greek word prostectomy, which means remaining in a state of expectation. Now, Jesus tells us to be eager about a second coming. Why is that? And Lecrae, my son is sitting right here, so I know I can't lie.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

If you were to turn to my son right now and say, what's your dad's favorite book? He would say, the Bible. And to this day, I like no other book on the planet Earth more than I like the Bible. But I've been reading the Bible for 47 years, and I still to this day. Until last fall. Excuse me. I didn't see how often we are told in the New Testament to be eager about his second coming. Okay. All right. Paul writes to the Corinthians. He said, as you eagerly wait for the coming of the Lord, he writes to Timothy. He said, the crown's not just for me. It's for all those who are eagerly looking forward to his coming. And Hebrews writes in Hebrews 9, he says, Christ will come again, not just not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all of us who are eagerly waiting for him. Yeah. Why is this important?

[Lecrae]

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[Lecrae]

Well, I don't want to interrupt you.

[John Bevere]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

Because I know you're going to answer this, but for the. I'm thinking of the people who would say, oh, well, they said all of that in that time because they were expecting him to come right then and there and he didn't come. And so there's all, there's skepticism even when people hear the word end times or, you know, the tribulation, because they're like, well, we heard a charlatan before who said this and gave the date. Right?

[John Bevere]

And now we're like, stop paying the credit card.

[Lecrae]

Right. But that doesn't seem to be your heart. But, but talk to us a little bit more about the eagerness and what you. What was revealed.

[John Bevere]

What this is more about is being prepared. Okay, so let me give you an example. Lisa and I got married on October 2, 1982. I knew the church, I knew the time that took about 20 minutes. But what both of us spent months doing was preparing for that wedding. And see, if you look at Revelation 19, it says, the marriage of the lamb has come and his bride has made herself ready. Doesn't say God made her ready. She made herself ready. Okay, so there is a preparation that we are to be doing for our wedding. And I started thinking, wait a minute and I'll get back to the eager expectation. Sure. You've got these people that they talk about the 20 minute aspect. Blood Moons, tsunamis. Right. Or you got people that don't talk about it at all. And I'm like, but shouldn't we spend more Time talking about the preparation, since that takes a whole lot more time. So in college, okay, finals week, everybody dreads it.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

It took me 20 minutes to go find out what classroom, what day and what time my finals were. I spent months, I spent weeks preparing for those finals. So which one was more important? The preparation. So this is not really a book about dates, timelines, tsunamis, and blood moons. This is. Although I do have to talk about that when you're talking about this subject. It's more about being prepared. And here's what I discovered. And this is why it's so important to be eager. And this is what made Simeon so sensitive to the Holy Spirit. I mean, think about it, man. You don't know who this couple is. There's lots of young couples in there presenting their 40 day old males and 33 day old girl babies to the Lord.

[Lecrae]

Right, right.

[John Bevere]

Why does, why does he know it's this couple? Because he had an intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit. Well, these three things are what fostered that intimacy. So I had to say, okay, why is eager expectations so important about the second Coming? Well, John, the apostle who saw the whole book of Revelation, you know what he writes in First John 3, 2, he said, when he appears, we're going to see him just as he is. And all who have this eager expectation in them purify themselves even as he is pure. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa. There is a power in the eager expectation to stay pure. Think about it. If you. Here's what I like to say. And I said this very clearly in the book. I want to live like he's coming back tonight. Yeah. I want to plan like he's not coming back for 200 years.

[Lecrae]

That's good. I like that perspective, actually. Okay, now for somebody who's listening and they're like, let's, let's, let's say that the person is like, yes, yes, yes, he might be coming back. What do I do? What does be pure mean? What does prepare mean? Buy the book.

[John Bevere]

No, I don't want to go. I mean, yes, buy the book if you want, but I want to help them with that question. Yeah. If you look at, if you think about it, if you really believe Jesus is coming back tonight, are you gonna, are you gonna get hung up on porn? Are you gonna be surfing the web tonight? And all of a sudden, here comes something. And all of a sudden, now I start going down that road and I'm thinking, oh, well, you know, God's grace will cover me.

[Lecrae]

Romans 6.

[John Bevere]

Okay, right. Romans 6, five times you've been delivered from the slavery of sin. But no, if you know he's coming tonight, I mean, okay, let's put it this way. Lisa prepared two months for our wedding in Indiana. I had a job in Dallas, so we were apart for two months. That two months was the longest two months I have ever lived through in my life. A day seemed like a week, a week seemed like a year. A week seemed like a month, and a month seemed like a year. And I remember the day I flew up. Let me tell you, I'd been doing push ups for 30 days. I was doing 100 push ups a day. I wanted my chest out.

[Lecrae]

Oh man.

[John Bevere]

I had my hair perfect. I had my mustache that I grew in, that I was surprising her with. I had the coolest outfit on. Why I'm about to see my bride. I want to look good. I want to be happy. Okay, if you see, here's the problem with the second coming. We made it an event. It's not an event. It's the wedding of the ages. It's a groom who's so deeply in love with his bride that's just waiting for his dad to say, go get your girl. And it's a bride who's lovesick for her groom. Now if you think about this, if I do that for my Lisa, how much more we do that for our creator, king and bridegroom and we know he's coming. Do I want to be caught, ashamed? Because this is where, this is where some of people, they gonna raise an eyebrow. And what I'm about to say, okay, I'm gonna quote scripture and you can raise your eyebrow at scripture, not at me. First John 2:28 John talks about the second coming. He said, and now dear little children, I want you to listen to what he says. Little children, he doesn't say. Now dear atheists, he's only talking to us believers. Now, now dear children, Stay in fellowship with him so that when he appears we might have confidence and not be ashamed. There are two responses by Christians when Jesus appears. Shame, confidence. Okay, let me give you an example because I don't want people, I don't want people turning us off yet. They're not going to because I'm, I'm on with you. So here's, here's, here's think about this. When I, when I was growing up, my dad never made more than $45,000 a year. He saved and invested like crazy. I mean we, we didn't even have FM radio. My dad was so frugal. But he saved like crazy so his kids could go to the university of their choice. I chose Purdue University, which was an out of state school. I chose to study engineering so I know how much my dad is paying. And I remember that first day of orientation. I am sitting in a hall with about 3,500 engineer, freshman, engineering students. The dean of engineering stands up on the lecture platform and he looks at us and said, look at the person to your right, look at the person to your left. They won't be here. At the end of this year, we will flunk 50% of you out. And then next year, we will flunk another 50% of you out. So only one out of every four of you, every four of you will still be here the beginning of your junior year. Lecrae. That put a really healthy fear in me. And I started really being diligent after that statement. And I worked like crazy.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

And I remember after finals week, my report card now is coming in seven to 10 days in the mail because this is. This is back in, you know, dinosaur days. And I was confident. Okay, why? Because I prepared for those finals. And I remember when that first report card came, lacrea made the dean's list.

[Lecrae]

Preparation.

[John Bevere]

And my dad said, let me see it, son. And I remember when he saw it, delight came in all over his face.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

And I'm telling you, it was such a good feeling. But then I joined a fraternity. Now I'm going to 4k now. I'm not saved yet. I'm going to 4 keggers a week. I'm playing Frisbee football every day. And now the finals come and go, and I'm not confident. And that report card came. I opened it really quick. I got to it first. And I remember my not being confident was founded because it wasn't good. And my dad, I remember him say, son, let me see it. And I remember the disappointment on his face. And I said to myself, right then this, he. He said three words. He said, you could have done better. And I remember, I thought to myself, this will never, ever, ever happen again. Just that shame I felt in that moment. And people are always like, oh, you'll never experience shame. John said, little children, he doesn't want you to be ashamed. So I wrote this book. Here's. Here's one of the big motives as a dad who loves the church, who loves the people of the church.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

I don't want anybody feeling shame, experiencing shame when Jesus returns. But you. But. But now let, Let. Let me, Let me, let me, Let me bring it over to the wedding. Okay. Lisa's been up there in Indiana for two months. I'm in Dallas, I fly up. Now, let me tell you what I saw when I walked into that church. I saw all the flowers on every single pew coming down. I saw the runner. I saw the big arch with all the beautiful fresh flowers. She converted that Presbyterian church into a gorgeous place. Yeah. But nothing was as beautiful as when she showed up at that back door with her dad. And she had that gown on, that wedding dress on. Holy cray, man. I had never seen anything so beautiful in all my life.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

And as she walked toward me, her eyes fixed on me with that. Just that I am losing it now, can you imagine if I flew up to Dallas or flew up from Dallas to Indiana, and I'm standing at that altar and she shows up the back with an ordinary dress that's all wrinkled, got grime and dirt stains on it. Her hair is unkept and she has no makeup.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

What would that say to me? This wasn't a very important moment. It may be right now, but it wasn't two months ago.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

Now what would she experience when she saw the look on my face? What I experienced when my dad saw that report card? She would experience that shame. And this is what John. Because John has a dad's heart, he's like little. He's calling us little children.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

I don't want you to be ashamed. I want you to be confident. Now listen, this is interesting. Revelation 19:7 and 8. The marriage of the lamb has come and the bride has made herself ready. How's the bride Made herself ready. To her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright. For the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. So now we are saved by grace. We don't do a thing to earn our salvation, our relationship with God. We do have something to do to prepare for our wedding.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

And that's the realization that's hitting me. Is that. Okay, see, think about this. Clean and bright for the fine line is the righteous acts of the saints. That deals with our calling as well as our lifestyle.

[Lecrae]

Sure.

[John Bevere]

If I am living like Jesus is coming back tonight, when I am surfing the web at 10 o' clock tonight and I just bump in to pornography. I'm really quick going out.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

I don't want that because I don't want to see any. Look, I don't want any shame in the sense that I don't want to feel that shame. Because, son, what were you doing?

[Lecrae]

Right.

[John Bevere]

Why Are you messing around with the things that drove the nails through my hands? You know, my dad didn't kick me out of the family. And I'm not saying yes or no about that. I am saying James says, hey, when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it's full grown, ends up at death.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

So you can get to the point where you're flirting with sin so long that you end up. There is a sin unto death. And John said, I say, don't pray for somebody about that. There's a sin that's not unto death. Pray for them there's a sin. In other words, that person keeps persisting in that sin. It cuts them off. God never said that you can't leave me nor forsake me. He said, I will never leave you nor forsake you. But he never said his kids couldn't leave him or forsake him. And so here's Jesus who gives us this nature. He changes our nature. Peter says he's given you the divine nature that you might escape the corruption that's in the world through lust. He literally puts this on the inside of us. And, and we keep sitting there looking at this. Or, or, or, or we got this substance abuse. Or we keep gossiping about this person, or we refuse to forgive this person. We keep making nasty comments on this person's post. What are we doing? We're living like the world. And this is what Paul's dealing with with the Corinthian Church. He's like, guys, I can't even speak to you as spiritual. You're so carnal.

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[Lecrae]

Now, there's, There's a lot of. In what you're saying. There's a lot of paths people can, Can. Can go down listening to what you're saying right now.

[John Bevere]

So, yeah, help me.

[Lecrae]

There's one path of a person who. And I'm just interested in you speaking to. To this collectively. So one end of the spectrum, there's a genuine concern of like, hey, man, you've been given so much and you've been blessed with so much. Why would you not want to operate in a way that demonstrates your gratitude for the grace that God.

[John Bevere]

Beautifully put.

[Lecrae]

Has given you?

[John Bevere]

Right, Beautifully put. That's the motivation, the gratitude. Right.

[Lecrae]

Okay, so there's that track that I feel like somebody could go down, but there's the other track of somebody who can say, well, I'm already gone so far. Are you telling me that I'm just cooked? Is like, I never.

[John Bevere]

You wouldn't be listening to this if you've gone too far. The very fact that you are listening and have a desire to be back in fellowship with Jesus tells me the Holy Spirit still working on your heart and the thing I love, love, love. Look at the prodigal son. I mean, I can't think of much worse a son could do to his own dad, like waste half of his wealth on partying and harlots. But when this. This kid just says, I've been an idiot.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

And he starts back and he's saying, man, just make me a servant. Sure, his dad sees him at a great distance and comes running with gifts. That's how forgiving God is.

[Lecrae]

Right.

[John Bevere]

He's quick to forgive. And when he forgives, he. For he buries it in the sea of forgetfulness and lecrae. I can't understand why people, when you have a father like that, who would take what Jesus took. When I wrote this book, I had to confront how horrible that night was for him. Sure, he was in front of four regiments of soldiers. Three of the four beat him until they were exhausted. Isaiah. Jesus knew this. Isaiah prophesied. By the time they got done beating him. We're not even talking about the cross yet. Yeah, he wouldn't even have the face of a human being.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, his beard's ripped out, spit on,

[John Bevere]

nails going into his skull, blindfolding him and slugging them until they're exhausted.

[Lecrae]

Yeah, it's not pretty.

[John Bevere]

Do you know scourging they'll people think he had 40 lashes, 39 lashes, right? No, the Jews couldn't go past 39. The Romans went until the backbone and the hip bones were exposed. And this Jew is causing me to be away from my family because this is Passover and we got to work double shifts. I'm gonna take it out on him. They would put him on a block, shackle the wrists in so he couldn't budge. And they many times have a left handed and a right handed. I had the scourging whip put in my hand. Just the weight of the scourging cut into my hand. Okay. An authentic scourging whip that the Romans used.

[Lecrae]

And so what you're saying is when

[John Bevere]

you're creator willingly says, I'm going to do this for you, how can any of us not respond with gratitude and love?

[Lecrae]

Right. So I think what I hear you are ultimately articulating is like man, so much has been done and this Jesus that has sacrificed himself on our behalf is actually coming back. And what are we doing?

[John Bevere]

Not only that, soon.

[Lecrae]

Okay, so there. All right. Now we get. Now it gets sticky. Yeah. Now is when. So this is where people are going to. The red flags are kind of go popping all over the place. And just to be clear, anytime you're talking about the end times, it's either something that people don't want to talk about or they talk about in like it's the topic of all topics. There's rarely a middle ground in this area. So it's very polarizing, which is why people don't talk about it. But people will say, sure, he's coming back. I mean, he didn't. Paul said he was coming back in Thessalonians soon.

[John Bevere]

What'd he say?

[Lecrae]

Soon.

[John Bevere]

But James said, what is the end of the world's coming?

[Lecrae]

Soon is soon 2000 years? As soon? 100 years is soon. How soon is soon and does it make a difference?

[John Bevere]

Okay. When we were away from each other for two months, I remember two days before I flew up for the wedding. I said, baby, I'm going to see you soon. That two days was nothing compared to the two months. Peter says scoffers are going to come in the last days. They're going to say, where's the promise of his coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, everything remains the same as creation. He's not talking about atheists. Atheists don't call church fathers fathers. Atheists don't call creation creation. They call it evolution. He's saying these scoffers are going to Come up in the church. He said, but you. And he says this to us. You must not forget this one thing. What's the thing? We're not supposed to get a day with the Lord's a thousand years. And a thousand years is a day. One of God's days is a thousand of our years. In other words. In other words, you divide a thousand years by 24, because there's 24 hours in a day. Yeah, you get 42.6 years, which means if I'm 85, I'm only two hours old. If you're under 45, listening to us right now, you're not even an hour old yet. Now, why would God have soon on the mind of the 12th century church, the 14th century church, did he know that that urgency would give the believers in the 12th century the power to purify themselves even as he is pure? Okay, now let's take that off the table and let's talk about the season we are in. Jesus said, I don't know when I'm coming back. The angels don't know the day or the hour when I'm coming back. Only the Father knows. So anybody says a day, anybody sets a month and year, I am not listening to them, okay? However, Jesus said, we know the season and generation. And that gets my attention, okay? Now, if you look at Jerusalem, he said, jerusalem, you missed your time of visitation. He rebuked them for not understanding the season, the time of his first coming. Do you know the prophets? Peter said they sought diligently and inquired diligently. In other words, they sought the word of God. And they prayed diligently to inquire what manner and what manner of time Jesus would come on his first coming? That's what the Essenes did. Do you know the Essenes predicted to the week he'd be crucified 150 years before Jesus was born. Now Jesus tells us on the Second Coming, you're not going to know the day or the hour, but you are going to know the generation, he said, because the Gentiles will rule over Jerusalem until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. The Jewish.

[Lecrae]

And just to be. Just to be clear from your vantage point, a generation is what, 100 years,

[John Bevere]

I'm about to say. Okay, I will say it.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

The Jewish people got control of Jerusalem for the first time in over 1800 years in 1967. Now, you asked the big question, what is a generation? A generation in the Bible has been represented as 40 years, 70 years and 100 years. Let me tell you Why? I think it's a hundred years. The reason I believe it's 100 years is because the words that are used are defined in the dictionary. I went to Nelson's Bible especially. I like the way they said it. It's a group of people live on the earth at the same given time. We have people that are still alive today. Very few that served in World War II. That was 85 years ago. They were probably at least 15. So we're talking 100 years.

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[John Bevere]

Is a generous, is a generation. In other words, in 100 year span, you will have people that lived on the earth at the same time. Right?

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[John Bevere]

Okay.

[Lecrae]

Yep.

[John Bevere]

Are you good with that?

[Lecrae]

My grandmother's 98.

[John Bevere]

If you take, if you take 67, 1967, you had 100 years, you're at 2067 now.

[Lecrae]

For clarity, I don't want you to.

[John Bevere]

I'm not saying Jesus coming in 2067.

[Lecrae]

No, no, no. But why are you making the mark from 1967 forward? What is this?

[John Bevere]

I can't figure out why so many people always do it at 1948. The reason I'm making the mark is Jesus said, until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, so Jerusalem, you will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the time the Gentiles is fulfilled. So really, I don't see them getting full Israel back until they got Jerusalem. They didn't really even get full Israel back, but that's when they got the city which was the focus of Jesus's discourse. Okay, does that make sense?

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[John Bevere]

All right. But it lines up with Hosea. If you look at Hosea. Hosea is so interesting. Hosea 5, the last two verses, it says, God is speaking to the Jewish people. Says, and Hosea cries out, he. He has torn us, he has rended us, he has scattered us. Okay? Then it says, after two days, I will revive you. Revive who? Israel. Not. Not the Gentiles Israel. We're talking Israel here. Okay, but he. What he says, he says he's torn us, he's scattered us. Right? He says, and then he returns to the place that he came from. I mean, this is in the last two verses of Hosea 5. To return to the place you came from means you had to leave someplace, come somewhere, and then go back. Yeah, Jesus left the Father, came to earth and went back to the Father. That's what Jose is talking about. Okay. And then God, he says, would tear and rend them. When did that happen? 70 A.D. titus comes in, right, and destroys Jerusalem. And the temple. Then in 72 AD, he destroyed the second temple. Okay, so by 72 AD, the old. The age of the law was done in the sense there were no more sacrifices. Does that make sense? So Jesus crucified 32, 33 AD most. Most believe now. And we have that from the. The scrolls, right? And then by 72, no more sacrifices. Add 2,000 years, two days to 70, 72, you get 20. 70, 72. So you see it two different ways. You see Jesus saying, that generation will not pass until all these things come true. He said, and he backed it with heaven and earth can pass away. But what I'm telling you. Well, not well, if you look at Hosea 2, Hosea says, After two days, I'll revive you. And on the third day, I'll raise you up that you. That you will live in my sight. That's the millennial reign of Christ. When we will actually see Jesus here on the third thousandth year after the tearing and rendering. But you know what the next verse says? Let us pursue the knowing of the Lord because his going forth is established as the morning.

[Lecrae]

What?

[John Bevere]

The sun did not come up at 11:00am this morning in Atlanta, Georgia. It came up at 6:30am right?

[Lecrae]

It is.

[John Bevere]

It is accurate. We know when it's coming up. He is saying, my going forth when I, after take two days reviving you is established as the morning. That's pretty powerful.

[Lecrae]

So biblically speaking, through your studies, through, you know, you feeling spirit led and just aligning what a generation looks like historically and biblically. I mean, does any day now, does the soon mean anytime in between now and 2072, or is it not? Unlike what, essentially, when is Jesus coming back?

[John Bevere]

I believe in your children's generation, he will be back. Okay? And I believe I can say that because Jesus said, assuredly, I say to you, heaven and earth can pass away before what I'm telling you does. And that generation will not pass until all these things are fulfilled.

[Lecrae]

And you're not, what you're not saying, just to be clear, what you're not saying is because he's coming back. You know, ring the alarm, hide your wife, hide your kids, pack extra lunches.

[John Bevere]

No, we should be more busy. When does the person run the fastest on a 5k race? Toward the end, when he sees the finish line. Yeah, this what I. The reason I got more passionate about ministry, the reason I was crying to win souls, because I realized how soon he was coming back, okay? So that caused me. Jesus said, occupy till I come, not stop paying your credit cards until I come. Okay, So I am not saying he's coming back in 2070. I'm not saying he's coming back tonight, but I am saying sometime between tonight, right now, and 2075, I believe he's coming back. And I believe I have the authority of scripture to say that. You know, I didn't even realize. The publisher pointed out there's over 500 scriptures in this book. So in other words, there are. There is so much study and so much pouring. God pouring into me. I mean, literally, I remember I was talking about One scripture, Isaiah 26, the last three verses. And it took three days before he could get it through to me because how thick my head is. Probably finally the third day, I remember when he showed me, I went crazy. I was like, I have never seen this before, but it literally shows again. When is. Are things going to be happening? And I think God made it this way. Lecrae. Because the early church had prophecy meals. What were prophecy meals? They would come together, eat a meal, and then they talk for hours about nothing but prophetic scriptures. Because 28 of the Bible, when it was written, was prophetic in nature. 28. Now, a lot of those prophecies have already come to pass. God wanted to make it almost like a jigsaw puzzle. You ever get around, do a jigsaw puzzle with your family? I mean, it's like everybody's getting the piece. Oh, yeah, let's do this, do this. And he intended for us to come together and talk about these things because it would keep us, what, purified as he is, pure because of the urgency that we carry. Like, the 5k runner is seeing the finish line and we're all sprinting faster.

[Lecrae]

Uniquely. I will say, you are not just saying, I got a vision and this is it, or no, you know, I saw a war happen, and I know this is it.

[John Bevere]

I'm not going there.

[Lecrae]

Uniquely, you're saying, I'm staying with the studies. So much scripture.

[John Bevere]

And I've asked the Holy spirit, please open my eyes.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

Because my wife even said to me, are you sure you want to write about this?

[Lecrae]

But that's what I was going to ask is like, is, do you. Is there any trepidation or any. Or are you just like, got to say this?

[John Bevere]

I have no regrets on anything I wrote in that book. And it's been out. And I knew I was going to get persecution, but I haven't really gotten it. I thought I was going to get a whole lot more than. Yeah, there's only been a few, but no I have no regrets. I feel like what, what, what was put in there came out of tons of prayer. And you know, 10 years from now I may look at you and say lecrae. I had edit a few things in there because we're growing, we're growing from glory to glory. But you know, I figured, I figured first of all God told me to do it. When he told me to study this five years ago, the last thing I thought I'd be doing is writing a book on it. Yeah, or preaching on. You know, I haven't preached a message on the second coming in my entire 43 years of ministry until this year 20. That was the first time I preached an American church. A message on the second coming was January of 2026.

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[Lecrae]

of like leading into the end of this discussion type of, type of vibe. Because this may take you a minute to to to walk us through this. But you got the Left behind series that rattled everybody up.

[John Bevere]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

You've got people who you know are like, oh, here we go again. Another person who's rattled up about the end times. You got your, your post trib, mid trib, pre trib fights that happen all the time, there shouldn't be. And then you, there's a word, and I don't think it's in your book. And I don't know if you left out intentionally or it might be in a. I don't think the word rapture is in there.

[John Bevere]

I on purpose didn't put it in there. But I'm going to talk about it right now.

[Lecrae]

Okay, so that's where I'm going. I like. Because everyone's like, what, what are you saying?

[John Bevere]

Let me, let me, let me talk about that.

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[John Bevere]

Paul talks in First Thessalonians, chapter four. He said, we shall not all die, but the Lord's going to descend from heaven with the voice of his arching. And those who are dead in Christ shall be raised. And we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, the dead and, and be with the Lord forever. Right. All right. The word caught up is the Greek word harpazo. Got it. This is found 14 times in the New Testament. I'll give you some examples. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven suffers violence. The violent, take it by force. That take it by force is harpazo. It means to violently snatch, quickly snatch away. Okay. And I give, I think 12 or 11 of the examples in the New Testament that it's used. In 390 AD a church father named Jerome went into a Cave for 23 years and wrote the Latin New Testament of the Bible. His writing was so accurate that church fathers used his translation of the Latin Bible to, to translate for a thousand years other languages, the New Testament for other languages. That's how accurate it was when he got to the word harpazo in the Greek, he chose the Latin word raptomir, which we get our English word rapture from. It was wrapped us or raptomir. And we get the English word rapture. Now everybody's going to be saying, yeah, but wait a minute. Rapture came up by John Nelson Darby in the 1800s. No, it didn't. I have early church fathers quotes that we found in the Dead Sea Scrolls who wrote about the catching away of the church before the great Tribulation.

[Lecrae]

So we won't see rapture in there. We'll see caught up.

[John Bevere]

We gonna see caught up because I said, I'm like, I actually said, hey, I'll say this one time in this book just because it's a trigger word for people. Yeah, but why is it a trigger word? Trinity is nowhere in the Latin Bible, Greek Bible or English Bible or any other. Yeah, but, yeah, we don't get nervous when we hear Trinity. Why people get so uptight. But I don't want. See, I'm. I'm not the type of guy that. That wants to push people on sematics. If I'm going to do any gentle pushing.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

Which I don't do. I want to do it with truth.

[Lecrae]

That's good.

[John Bevere]

And so I'd much rather call it say what's in our English Bible will be caught up.

[Lecrae]

Okay, final thought. Why do people need to not. Not just read the book, But I guess why. Why are you so passionate about people understanding that he may come back soon? I understand you're talking about be eager, be pure. What is happening in society right now that has you saying no, you guys. Okay.

[John Bevere]

My heart goes out to the guy who can't get away from pornography. He doesn't have the power to purify himself. I want to see him get that power because that drives a person to find the grace of God that leads us to real, genuine holiness. If holiness is the end goal, and I talk about this extensively in this book, if that's the end goal, we're going to end up legalistic.

[Lecrae]

Okay.

[John Bevere]

But if we realize holiness is the door into something else, what's the door into? It's the doorway into intimacy. The reason I don't commit adultery on my wife is because I never want that magnificent woman to not share with me the deepest secrets of her heart that she doesn't share with anybody else. The reason I never want to commit adultery against Jesus is I don't want to lose those times. He shares with me things that I've never ever seen before in reading the Bible 47 years, the Awareness that he's near, he's coming gives me that power. Secondly, I want to see people more passionate about ministry. And I believe this message, the way it was written, the way it was given. My editor at HarperCollins. He's done a lot of books. He said, john, there's not another book out there like it. He said, it is a book on the second coming. He said, but I've never seen it addressed the way it's being addressed in this. And that's because I'm addressing it on the being prepared aspect. And what do we do to stay prepared. It's one thing to, you know, remember, stay dressed for service. Yeah. Keep. When did the Virgin's lamp start going out? It was at midnight. The lamps were burning. Okay. At 9:15pm yeah, it was at the end. I want to see people finish well. Not just start well, but finish well.

[Lecrae]

As my, as my grandmother says, if you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready.

[John Bevere]

So I like your grandma.

[Lecrae]

I am, I'm grateful. One of the reasons why I'm really grateful for you and your. Your heart and your perspective is the amount of time and effort and energy and thoughtfulness and care you put into these conversations. Whether someone disagrees or agrees with you, you never come off as like disingenuous or argumentative. You come off as somebody who genuinely loves people. And that's something that it's like. You're not gonna be able to argue with that. And then the second thing that I really value and appreciate is how much scripture and like time and effort and energy into the study of it. This is not just like flippant, you know, which is where I think people get weary is wary is because they're just like somebody, oh, you just had a vision. You're Joseph Smith now. And now the whole new thing pops up.

[John Bevere]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

So. So we appreciate that.

[John Bevere]

You know, John the apostle made the statement when he was in his 90s. I have no greater joy that my children walk in the truth and lecrae. I have no greater joy than to see people receive the truth and it changes and transforms them. That just delights my heart. And as far as the catching away of the church, can I just put a little cap on that?

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

My wife doesn't even agree with me. And we joke about it.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

But I will say I give six points, seven points. The seventh is the early church fathers, but six are straight from scripture of why I believe it. But I am never going to argue with you about it. And if you believe we're going to be here through the great tribulation, the 75 pound hailstorm, hailstones coming down and all that. You know what. And getting our heads cut off. I love you because you are prepped and ready for adversity. And there is nothing wrong with that. So that's good. I salute my wife for thinking we're going at the very, very end.

[Lecrae]

I need. I. I must confess I have not done enough research. After hearing this conversation, I'm like, man, I am. There is so little that I know.

[John Bevere]

I'm going to give you the first all right.

[Lecrae]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate it.

[John Bevere]

Yeah.

[Lecrae]

Thank you again just for who you are, for what you do.

[John Bevere]

And I love you, Lecrae, and I mean it. I thank you so much for the way you've touched so many lives. I saw the waiter tonight in the restaurant. You're Lecrae. And you were so kind to him.

[Lecrae]

Oh, man.

[John Bevere]

I mean, no. That. When you've some gazillions of albums like you have. Yeah. And you treat people tender and you know they're excited and, you know this is a moment for them and you're kind to them. Thank you. That's a daddy right there.

[Lecrae]

That's it. You nailed it. Well, thank you. You did the same thing. You got stopped that we left as well. You had a whole conversation with somebody who stopped you. So, you know, we look and we learn and we're listening. So thank you again. I appreciate you, brother.

[John Bevere]

Yes, sir.

[Lecrae]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

This is the deep end with Lecrae.