AI’s big moves at NYT, Business Insider and Meta + A Day in the Life of Marie Claire’s EIC Nikki Ogunnaike

Summary

The Digiday Podcast: AI’s Big Moves at NYT, Business Insider, and Meta + A Day in the Life of Marie Claire’s EIC Nikki Ogunnaike
Release Date: June 3, 2025
Hosts: Kameka McCoy & Tim Peterson

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Introduction

In this episode of The Digiday Podcast, hosts Kameka McCoy and Tim Peterson delve into the transformative impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on major media and tech companies, including Amazon, The New York Times (NYT), Business Insider, and Meta. Additionally, the podcast features an insightful segment with Nikki Ogunnaike, Editor-in-Chief (EIC) of Marie Claire, where she shares her personal daily routine and management strategies. The episode expertly balances industry-wide AI developments with a personal glimpse into the life of a leading media professional.

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Amazon and The New York Times: A Landmark AI Licensing Deal

Timestamp: 02:02

Tim Peterson opens the discussion by highlighting Amazon's groundbreaking multi-year AI content licensing agreement with The New York Times. This deal marks a significant shift, especially considering that over a year ago, the NYT filed a lawsuit against OpenAI for allegedly using its content to train large language models without permission.

Notable Quote:
Tim Peterson mentions, “Amazon had been super quiet on this front. And so this was like the first big example of Amazon similarly being like, yeah, we're open for business. Our pocketbook is open publishers. Let's talk” (02:02).

The partnership leverages Amazon's proprietary large language model, Nova, which powers various Amazon products, including Alexa. This collaboration allows NYT content, such as their renowned cooking recipes, to be accessible via Alexa, enhancing user experience in daily activities like cooking. Kameka McCoy notes the fruition of voice assistants reaching their potential, albeit with a touch of humor about the belated achievement (03:06).

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Business Insider’s AI-Driven Layoffs: Navigating the AI Gold Rush

Timestamp: 04:14

The conversation shifts to Business Insider's recent announcement of a 21% workforce reduction, attributing the layoffs to AI advancements and economic pressures. CEO Barbara Pang emphasized that over 70% of employees were already utilizing Enterprise ChatGPT, aiming for full adoption across the company.

Notable Quote:
Kameka McCoy reflects on industry trends, stating, “The rationale has always been, oh, well, you still need human oversight when it comes to AI and there won't be layoffs. I think we are starting to see that conversation shift and change [...] That is going to come at the cost of human jobs” (06:57).

Tim Peterson adds context by referencing Axel Springer's earlier move to license content with OpenAI, suggesting that while initial deals signaled potential revenue streams, they were insufficient to shield companies like Business Insider from broader economic downturns and the disruptive nature of AI.

The hosts discuss the broader implications for the publishing industry, particularly commerce-driven verticals. With AI capabilities making direct product recommendations (e.g., Google Gemini suggesting vacuum cleaners), traditional publishers risk losing affiliate revenue as consumers bypass their sites entirely.

Notable Quote:
Tim Peterson explains the threat to publishers: “If you're in the market for a vacuum, you can just ask Google Gemini, and it may cite information from these commerce sites [...] You don't necessarily need to go to those product review sites to buy the vacuum” (07:26).

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Meta’s Bold Bet on AI-Powered Advertising

Timestamp: 09:10

Meta is making headlines with its ambitious plan to empower advertisers to create and target ads entirely through AI by the end of 2026. This strategy was elaborated by CEO Mark Zuckerberg in a recent interview, where he envisioned a future where businesses could set objectives and connect their bank accounts without needing to handle creative aspects or demographic targeting themselves.

Notable Quote:
Tim Peterson cites Zuckerberg: “We're going to get to a point where you're a business, you come to us, you tell us what your objective is. [...] That is a redefinition of the category of advertising” (10:34).

The hosts express skepticism about the transparency and control advertisers will have over Meta's AI-driven ad creation, labeling it a "black box." They discuss potential challenges for creative agencies, which may struggle to justify their roles as AI takes over more aspects of ad development.

Notable Quote:
Kameka McCoy observes, “Who is the biggest big winners here? Maybe obviously small businesses... unfortunately, I think the people who might be taking L are creative agencies...” (12:05).

The discussion touches on the broader industry impact, referencing sentiments from thought leaders like Sam Altman of OpenAI, who predicts that AI could handle up to 95% of tasks currently managed by marketers and creatives, potentially leading to significant job displacement.

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A Day in the Life of Marie Claire’s EIC Nikki Ogunnaike

Timestamp: 15:26

Shifting from industry analysis to a personal perspective, the podcast features an engaging interview with Nikki Ogunnaike, Editor-in-Chief of Marie Claire. She provides a comprehensive look into her daily routine, highlighting how she balances the demands of her high-profile role with personal well-being.

Morning Routine and Digital Consumption

Nikki begins her day around 6:00-6:30 AM, preferring to ease into her morning with a mix of digital browsing and personal time. She avoids engaging with TikTok early in the day due to its aggressive nature but regularly checks Instagram and various inboxes for personal and work-related messages.

Notable Quote:
Nikki shares, “I walk through those three until it's time for me to like do coffee stretches and some sort of workout in the morning” (17:39).

She emphasizes the importance of a mindful start, avoiding content that might negatively impact her mood, such as certain news headlines, and instead focusing on curated newsletters and fashion-specific content that aligns with her professional interests.

Managing the Commute and Work Schedule

Residing in Bed-Stuy, Nikki navigates a balanced commute consisting of a 10-15 minute walk to the train, followed by podcast listening to make productive use of her time. Her workweek typically spans three days in the office (Tuesday to Thursday), allowing for deep work and team collaboration, while weekends and remote workdays offer flexibility and personal time.

Notable Quote:
Nikki explains, “We're in the office three days a week and I somewhere I usually average if I'm not traveling, I do the three days” (24:44).

On office days, she meticulously plans her outfits to accommodate a long day without the need for changes, reflecting her no-fuss approach to work attire despite her fashion-oriented role.

Meeting Management and Work-Life Balance

Nikki addresses the challenges of meeting management in a creative industry. She advocates for structured meetings with clear agendas and prepared brainstorming sessions, contrasting with more freewheeling styles like Amazon's memo-based approach.

Notable Quote:
She states, “I like to block off some time for just, like, quiet food time” (28:24) to ensure she maintains personal space amidst a busy schedule.

Nikki also highlights the importance of delegating and empowering her team to conduct meetings independently, thereby optimizing her schedule and fostering team autonomy.

Evening Routine and Wind-Down

After a full day, Nikki finds joy in cooking simple, healthy meals with her boyfriend, transitioning from work to personal relaxation. Her evenings typically involve a final round of digital checks, light entertainment like reality TV, and a strict bedtime routine to ensure adequate rest.

Notable Quote:
Reflecting on her day, Nikki quips, “I have to like wear myself out like a baby and then I can sleep well” (35:24).

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Conclusion

This episode of The Digiday Podcast offers a dual perspective on the rapidly evolving landscape of AI in media and advertising, alongside a personal narrative from a leading industry professional. Kameka McCoy and Tim Peterson provide listeners with both macro-level insights into significant industry shifts and micro-level strategies for personal productivity and work-life balance. Through thoughtful analysis and engaging interviews, the podcast equips its audience with a comprehensive understanding of current trends and practical advice for navigating the digital age.

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Notable Quotes Overview:

• Tim Peterson on Amazon's deal: “[...] Amazon similarly being like, yeah, we're open for business [...]” (02:02).
• Kameka McCoy on AI and layoffs: “That is going to come at the cost of human jobs” (06:57).
• Tim Peterson on Meta’s AI ads: “[...] that’s a redefinition of the category of advertising” (10:34).
• Nikki Ogunnaike on morning routine: “I need to ease into my day” (16:07).
• Nikki on meetings: “I'm going to be there” (27:16).
• Nikki on winding down: “I have to like wear myself out like a baby and then I can sleep well” (35:24).

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Transcript

[Tim Peterson]

Hello.

[Kameka McCoy]

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Digiday Podcast. I'm your co host, Kameka McCoy, senior marketing reporter here at Digiday.

[Tim Peterson]

And I'm Tim Peterson, executive editor of video and audio at Digiday Media. What's up, Kimiko?

[Kameka McCoy]

How are you, Tim? I'm good, I'm good.

[Tim Peterson]

I saw Mission Impossible last night. I was worried that I was too old to see a movie after the sun goes down on a Sunday night. But no, I am here. I'm awake, I'm good to go.

[Kameka McCoy]

I love that for you and I'm glad that you're awake because we have a lot to talk about. I wish I could say that we didn't have an AI themed podcast intro today, but alas, here we are.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Although our featured segment, I don't know that we talked about AI really at all, but it was a really fun interview. So we spoke with Niki Yoganaki, who is the editor in chief of Marie Claire, and we tried something different for this episode. We, you know, day in the life. I'm always really curious in, like, how people manage their days. And so you and I got to speak with Nikki about, like, what her average day looks like from when she gets up to when she sets it down for the day.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah. I think what I found most interesting is she is somebody who said that she's no fuss, no fuss when it comes to, like, clothing, yet Marie Claire. That was really, really interesting.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Although it may just be something like her closet is so dialed in that she doesn't have to fuss like the rest of us.

[Kameka McCoy]

Much better than me. Much better than me. But before we get to that, we've got this week's AI themed Juicy scoops, including Amazon's first publicly announced content licensing deal with a publisher, Business Insider, layoffs in the name of AI. And then finally, Meta's going all in and being very brazen about its approach to AI ads. So some interesting stuff to talk about. But first, let's talk about the deal between Amazon and New York Times.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, so this is a big one because, you know, the New York Times more than a year ago filed a lawsuit against OpenAI, alleging OpenAI had used new York Times content to feed its large language model, violating New York Times copyright. And so while we've had a bunch of media companies, a bunch of publishers, sign content licensing deals with AI platforms, the New York Times hadn't. And New York Times had kind of been the example of a publisher who was pushing back against these AI platforms, obviously only to a point, there's a price on this. And at the same time we've seen OpenAI perplexity. Even Google and Meta have done deals with media companies, content licensing deals. Amazon had been super quiet open on this front. And so this was like the first big example of Amazon similarly being like, yeah, we're open for business. Our pocketbook is open publishers. Let's talk.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah, which is super, super interesting. So it's a multi year AI licensing deal that Amazon and New York Times have here. But. And it's for Amazon owned products. I know there's Alexa and what else?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, so Amazon has its own large language model, Novo, which is the AI that kind of powers everything else or will be powering everything else. And also like other companies can use Nova just like they might use Gemini or Meta's llama to basically be the brains behind publishers or an advertisers or an agency's own AI products. And so now New York Times is going to inform that. One thing that's interesting and according to the New York Times own reporting on this deal, is there's the potential for New York Times content to now be kind of referenced or made available through Alexa, which that gets interesting because like New York Times content includes New York Times cooking. So the idea of you can be in the kitchen, have your Alexa device in there and get New York Times cooking recipes through it, I think.

[Kameka McCoy]

Not to say we finally reached the promised land when it comes to Alexa and maybe Siri in a future year, but this kind of seemed like the path that was supposed to have happened a couple years ago when these voice assistants were first on the market. And now we finally, years later have gotten to, to that point.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I think anyone who's used Alexa or Siri has been wondering like, when the hell are these smart assistants actually going to get smart? It seems like, okay, now there's some hope for them to get smart. Although I have an iPhone, I have Apple intelligence, I do not feel like Siri has gotten all that smart. But maybe one day.

[Kameka McCoy]

Maybe one day. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Also in AI news is unfortunately Business Insider slashed 21% of its staff in the name of AI and live event. So CEO Barbara Pang said over 70% of Business Insider employees are already using Enterprise ChatGPT regularly and the goal is 100%. Which kind of shows where we're headed maybe as a publishing industry in the rush for AI, or AI gold rush, if you want to call it that.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I mean, media layoffs are always troubling, especially as people who work At a media company, you never want to see people put out of jobs, honestly, in media or otherwise. But one thing that stands out to me about this is so Business Insider is owned by Axel Springer. Axel Springer, to my mind, was the first big media company to sign a content licensing deal with an AI company. It signed a deal with OpenAI, and I believe it was December of 2023. And that was kind of the signal to the rest of the industry of like, there's money to be made here. But. And obviously the economy is in the tank right now and that's having a lot of impacts on seemingly every company. But it's kind of like, okay, that deal with OpenAI wasn't enough to put Business Insider in a position to be insulated from the impacts of AI because in the memo announcing that it's laying off 21% of its employees, Business Insider CEO Barbara Peng cited AI as one of the reasons for the adversity that business insiders facing that led to these layoffs.

[Kameka McCoy]

I think, yes. And also what's been interesting from my purview is like, as I've been having these conversations front facing Right. With marketers and CMOs and things like that, the rationale has always been, oh, well, you still need human oversight when it comes to AI and there won't be layoffs. I think we are starting to see that conversation shift and change, especially as economic headwinds continue to loom about to where, you know, you have no choice but to play ball with AI. And that is going to come at the cost of human jobs.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, because I mean, okay, maybe you need human oversight, but these companies aren't saying how many humans you need doing that oversight. And because that's one of the things about AI is it creates a lot more redundancies similar to like when you see companies merge redundancies creative are created and more often than not you see layoffs soon after companies merge. Now we're just effectively seeing companies merge their operations in a way with AI technologies.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah. The biggest hit, I wonder if it's going to be for publishers, commerce driven verticals. So your wire cutters and strategists and things like that. When you talk about like search traffic and things like that, you know, those publications may be the ones that take the biggest hit.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, yeah. Because that's one thing BI announced with these layoffs is that it's shutting down the majority of its commerce business. And there was a Wall street journal article late 2024, like right before the holidays, in which the Journal talked with different publishers about how AI was affecting referral traffic from search and therefore, you know, affecting their sites. And the commerce pub were the ones who were like most directly impacted there. Which kind of makes sense, you know, if you're going onto Google AI mode. You know, we just had the episode about AI mode last week talking with, you know, Google's Dan Taylor. If you're going into Google and now you're just going straight into AI mode, into the chat version of it and let's say you're in the market for a vacuum, you can just ask Google Gemini, hey, what's the best, you know, vacuum for me to look at? And it may cite information from these commerce sites, from these product review sites, from publishers. But you don't necessarily need to go to those product review sites to buy the vacuum. You can just click a link straight from Google, you know, AI mode, in which case then the publisher is getting the affiliate revenue from you having gone to their site, clicking on the product and then going to Amazon or whatever retailer through there. So yeah, they're very much threatened. And we're seeing that it's, you know, more than a threat at this point.

[Kameka McCoy]

AI has come a long ways, but there's still hallucinations. Right? Because on the, on the one hand, yes, it can be used to do a lot of the grunt work. But as we saw with the Chicago sun, maybe last month a couple of publications reported that there was an AI generated summer reading list that got picked up by Chicago Sun Times, by the Philadelphia Inquirer and it included made up books by famous authors which kind of shows like the limitations of AI. So while we're going all in the, there are still limitations to it. And I feel like those things probably, I don't know how much thought we're giving those things.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I mean there's, that's like one example. There's been a bunch of examples of publishers using AI to create content. You know, the Arena Group ran into an issue here I think two years ago where they similarly had AI created content that was erroneous and they, but they had published it anyways. I imagine that's only going to mount because more and more content is being created by AI, including advertising.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yes. So meta. Now I will preface this by saying at this point all platforms have some sort of AI backed content creation and ads from like top to bottom, Meta as being the most brazen about it. So by the end of 2026, Zuckerberg's plan is to allow advertisers to fully create and target Ads using AI.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, that's according to a Wall Street Journal report. Meta hasn't fully announced that kind of thing. But Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg was on the Stratechary podcast a couple weeks ago where he said basically exactly what the Wall Street Journal reported on. In that interview. There was one segment that really stood out to me and so I'll quote him from this interview with Shrutaquari. This is Zuckerberg. We're going to get to a point where you're a business, you come to us, you tell us what your objective is. You connect to your bank account. You don't need any creative, you don't need any targeting demographic, you don't need any measurement except to be able to read the results that we spit out. I think that's going to be huge. I think it is a redefinition of the category of advertising. And that seems to be exactly the playbook that Meta is writing right now. And I imagine every other big platform.

[Kameka McCoy]

Is going to be following for Meta specifically. I'm curious to see how this shakes out because one, there have been questions about AI being a black box and not being able to know like, what levers to pull and win, how much control an advertiser has over how the AI spits it out. And then two, you know, even in my retail media network, reporting is like how if you're grading your own homework, how am I supposed to trust? All of this kind of comes out in the wash, I think. Who is the biggest bit winners here? Maybe obviously small businesses, which make up a large part of Meta's business. Unfortunately, I think the people who might be taking L are creative agencies who are still trying to figure out how to prove make the case for themselves in, you know, AI powered ads.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. And to your Black Box point, like so Ben Thompson writes Trajectory, hosts the podcast, made that point too. He says in the interview, best black box of all time. You know what Zuckerberg says? Yeah, it is basically like the ultimate business agent. So like MET is not shying away from the. In the past, like Black Box was an allegation made as like a criticism. Now it seems like these tech companies are saying, yes, absolutely, we are black boxing everything. And that's, to your point, going to make things really tough on creative agencies. There was a Business Insider story last week, you know, talking with creative agency executives and they were all making the case. And it is a valid case to be making at least right now that, yeah, we're using AI more in like our creative workflows. Whether that's from like a pre production briefing planning side of things or like actually in the ads. But that work requires our human expertise. There's a lot of prompt engineering that needs to be done. And that's all true for now, but it's almost like humans are the training wheels for AI to learn how to make these ads. And Zuckerberg and co are looking ahead to end of 2026 and expecting that at that point AI is just going to be able to do everything.

[Kameka McCoy]

I've got a couple of conversations lined up with creative agencies while I'm on the ground can this year and that is going to make a very interesting talking point with this new, I guess new part of the hype cycle that we've reached with with AI and kind of how, how they can pitch themselves with Meta's AI right across the street.

[Tim Peterson]

And to what extent they can pitch themselves to what extent they're going to have to change how much they're billing for. Because there is in that Business Insider story, they cite an upcoming book called AI first that quotes OpenAI CEO Sam Altman as saying, quote, 95% of what marketers use agencies, strategists and creative professionals for today will easily, nearly instantly and at almost no cost be handled by AI. Basically like we're going to. I don't know to what extent he feels this is unfortunate but like put people out of jobs here.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah. And also continue to crumble what is already a fragile environment. The amount of power and water it takes to cool down these AI processing center is insane. And we're just adding fuel to the fire here. But that's another conversation for another day. But we've hopefully giving everybody what they need for AI and we'll give them a brief moment of reprieve with our conversation again that we had with Nikki.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed this conversation. Like I just find it really interesting hearing how anyone goes about their day and gets their job done. And I feel like I came away with some pretty good tips on how I maybe could be managing my day much better from Nikki. And so hopefully listeners will find some tidbits that they can use for managing their own days.

[Kameka McCoy]

With no further ado, let's get to it.

[Tim Peterson]

Nikki, welcome. Welcome back to the show.

[Niki Yoganaki]

Thank you for having me.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, no, Kivika and I are excited to have you because we're trying a new format for interviews with you this time around where I know I get really interested in just like how anyone goes about their day and I feel like people have so many different ways that they manage their day, what time they get up, what time they go to sleep, how they manage meetings and all the other work. And so I would think, editor in chief of Marie Claire, your day is probably pretty packed where you probably have to have a pretty solid handle over how you actually manage your day to day, Right?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Yeah, totally. I wasn't a morning person actually until I met my boyfriend 10 years ago who turned me into a morning person. He's an early riser, he's a 4:30am at the gym riser. I am not. I'm more of a 6am 6:30. I like to carve out time to scroll in the morning. I know that's probably bad, quote unquote, but I know myself, I know what my morning routine needs to look like. I need to ease into my day. And so, yeah, it's a bit of an early morning rise, a bit of a lounging in the morning and then it's like off to the races.

[Kameka McCoy]

Interesting, interesting. Talk about your scrolling. Are you someone who scrolls Inbox? Scrolls, TikTok scrolls, Apple News scrolls. What are you scrolling?

[Niki Yoganaki]

I unfortunately scroll a little bit of everything. I have to be honest. The one thing I don't scroll actually is TikTok in the morning. I find it to be sort of aggressive, I guess. I love TikTok, but I think that's a lot to come at you that early in the morning. Right. So generally when I wake up, turn the alarm off, I go to Instagram first, catch up on that inbox, then I go to my personal inbox, catch up on that and then I go to work inbox and I sort of do that, that dance. I bounce between those three until it's time for me to like do coffee stretches and some sort of workout in the morning.

[Tim Peterson]

What's your Instagram inbox?

[Niki Yoganaki]

DMs usually just catching up on like either DMs from that I have sent, like, because I go to bed kind of early. I go to bed at like 9, 10 usually. And so many of my friends are night owls. So catching up on all of that, sort of that they've been, you know, discussing while I've been asleep. I also catch up on group chats also. So that's probably actually where I go first is the group chats and then I go to Instagram. Yeah. So catching up on all of that and the scrolling, like, you know, I think a lot of people would tell you that you should feel bad about your screen time and that you, you know, should try and cut it and. But I just like am realistic about what this job entails and it does entail screen time and so I just sort of make. Make peace with it.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. It could get tricky though, because I feel similarly. But I worry about like, am I just justifying the doom scrolling by being like, oh, this is for work. That's why I've been on TikTok for the past hour.

[Niki Yoganaki]

That's true. Well, I have to say, I avoid the doom of it all, right? So I avoid my Apple news for as long as I can in the morning. I avoid New York Times app as long as I can in the morning because that stuff really does affect me and that can set me on like a not so great way to start my morning. And so I try to be mindful of that.

[Kameka McCoy]

That's interesting. I actually had a doctor's appointment the other day and he said, your eyes are dry. How much time are you spending scrolling? And I said, let's move on to another topic, please.

[Niki Yoganaki]

Yeah, that's none of your business. Okay, relax. It's private.

[Kameka McCoy]

For people that are in the news business, right? At some point you've got to confront the news. So like, when does that show up in the day that you make the time to kind of settle in into that?

[Niki Yoganaki]

I try to keep it out until probably like 8:39. I have a really, really amazing team of women that I work with who don't need me to sort of like be the micromanager who's like dropping in links and saying like, we should cover this or we should cover that. Like, they really are so fantastic that they set me up and they give me the news so I can sort of like avoid it a little bit in the morning. And while I'm sort of like trying to, you know, get ready to sort of face the day, which is great, but when I do, it really is. I try to, you know, do New York Times. I find that like, while I really love Apple news, it does feel like an assault. Every morning is some terrible Trump headline, some terrible RFK Jr headline, and I don't want to see that. So I try, I try my best to avoid it and really focus on what I can control, which is, you know, me reading the New York Times style section and learning about like some weird new TikTok trend that is actually applicable to my life right now.

[Tim Peterson]

Are you a big email newsletter person?

[Niki Yoganaki]

I am. I really am. They feel like little treats to me in the morning and I like the idea of like waking up and getting, you know, the Daily Digest from somebody like, I think her name is Rachel Carton, who does link in bio. Right. I think that's her name. So from link in bio or from Feed Me or from after school, like those are my three newsletters that give me the digest of the headlines that I should be reading. And then because I do come from a fashion background, I'm always going to be interested in sort of like what the fashion girlies are wearing. And so my inbox is filled with a lot of those types of newsletters as well.

[Kameka McCoy]

So we've got to the point where you've, you've done your scrolling, you've woken, you've woken yourself up a little bit as somebody who's in fashion. Right. Talk to me kind of about the next steps. Getting ready for the day. How do we decide what to wear, the commute to the office, that type of deal?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Mm, that's a really great question. So in between the scroll and getting out of bed, I make pour over coffee every morning and do about 15 minutes of stretches. And so while I'm doing that, that's when I'm contemplating in my head like, okay, what's the day looking like? Where am I going? I live in Bed Stuy and I take the train to work almost every morning. And so that's a 10, 15 minute walk to the train. What's the shoe gonna be? Is it gonna be a sneaker? Does it need to be a low heel that I have to put in my bag? It's a lot of like clothing logistics that we as New Yorkers do. Because when I come into the office for the day, it's most likely I'm not going to get home again until 7pm Maybe. So I'm out for a huge chunk of the day and the outfit needs to, to work. There's not a lot of room for like outfit changes within the day. So it's usually, you know, I'm wearing some sort of trouser that works with heels and sneakers so I can do a quick change. The top is generally something uncomplicated. I don't like fussy clothing. I have enough to think about and so I don't like to spend a lot of time in front of my closet. So it's not exactly a uniform, but it is an assortment of clothing that is just uncomplicated, maybe a layer if I'm, if I know I'm gonna be hot on the train, but I'm cold on the walk. So a lot of those sort of. It sounds actually so crazy to Say out loud, now that I'm saying it. But it is a lot of logistical thinking because I know that I'm gonna be out of the house for like 12 hours.

[Tim Peterson]

What time do you usually look to get out the door by? And does that vary?

[Niki Yoganaki]

It does vary. It depends on if I have in office meetings or if I have a breakfast meeting. Because I live in bedside. I try not to. I don't like to rush. And I've really made a concerted effort to not put myself in situations where I have to rush. I generally try not to schedule meetings before or I generally try not to schedule myself having to be anywhere before 9:30 or 10, which means I'm usually out the door somewhere like an hour before that.

[Kameka McCoy]

It's a long day for your time that's on the train, Right. That part of the commute. One of the luxuries that you guys have in New York that we do not have in LA or down here in Atlanta is being able to, you know, either put on a podcast or music or something audiobook or something like that, because I'm the one doing the driving, whereas on the train you're not the one doing the driving. So how do you spend that commute?

[Niki Yoganaki]

I'm a podcaster or like I'm a podcast girl. And it's funny. So I moved to bed today about five years ago and I lived in Manhattan before that and my commute wasn't long. So that was just like scrolling and hopping on the Internet, like in between train stations. But now I am a solid podcaster. Let me say this is a new favorite with Hunter Harris and Peyton Dix. I love them. I think they're just so funny. I listen to Puck Fashion People with Lauren Sherman is another one that I really love. I've recently gotten into the Blow up, which is about Liz Tilburys Harper's Bazaar. It's a really great narrative podcast that I have absolutely fallen in love with. And I've been telling everyone to listen to if they're into magazine making of the early 2000s. So, yeah, it's a lot of. It's mostly podcasting to pass the time. Yeah.

[Tim Peterson]

And then when you get in, how many days a week are you usually in the office?

[Niki Yoganaki]

We're in the office three days a week and I somewhere I usually average. If I'm not traveling, I do the three days. If I'm traveling, it's probably two days a week. And then if I have events in the city, it can get up to like four.

[Tim Peterson]

Sure. Is it always the Same three days?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Yes, we're in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, which is perfect. Everyone should work that schedule if they can. I think it's the right amount of time to like spend with your team as I've, you know, I've been at Marie Claire for two years. In August it'll be two years. But it, I find that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is the perfect amount of time to really get to know your team but then also have those bookend days where you can do sort of that deep work, whether it's getting through your inbox or expenses or, you know, whatever it may be.

[Kameka McCoy]

Does your in office days routine look different from your work from home? Remote work days, like the getting ready and whatnot. How do those differ?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Yeah, I, on Mondays and Fridays I generally don't get like dress dressed. It's usually a sweatpant and some sort of shirt, T shirt or button down shirt. And other than that it's pretty much the same. It's just not getting properly dressed for work. Take those days off.

[Kameka McCoy]

And what about your pour over coffee? Does that still happen on both days?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Oh, that still happens. That's like a meditative routine. That still happens. I've come to really enjoy that moment of stillness in the morning before the world sort of like gets to you.

[Tim Peterson]

I'm hoping to get to that point. I just got into pour over coffee like a month ago and I'm still in the phase of like, why isn't this ready already?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Oh, I love it. I do, I do love it. And I'm really trying to like, you know, trying to be economical and not spend like $6 on a nice coffee every day. Even though that's like actually my preferred way of drinking coffee. So, you know, trying to be responsible.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I had a Mr. Coffee. I could set it for 4am, start brewing to wake up and then immediately it's ready. So it's been an adjustment for me. You mentioned usually you'll start meetings at 9, 30, 10. Do you have a rule in terms of how many meetings you have in the morning? I don't know how you break up because I imagine you're in ton of meetings day in, day out.

[Niki Yoganaki]

Yeah, I, I really had to make peace with the fact that like my job now is meetings, you know, and I made peace with that actually when I was in, when I was the deputy fashion director at GQ in 2019, I was like, what is happening? Why are there so many meetings? And my friend and boss at the time, Obelaji was like, dude, this is what we do. Like this is where we are in our career now. We do meetings. And I was like, okay, we do meetings. And so you just. I just have sort of made peace with the fact that, like, I'm going to be there. And so I have as many meetings. I try to block off a little bit of time within the day, but there really is a time where I can be in meetings from like 10 to 4 easily.

[Kameka McCoy]

That's a lot.

[Niki Yoganaki]

But I'm like, I like lunch. I really like lunch. And so I go get my own lunch. I like to go outside and get it. And so that's usually at least like 20 minutes, maybe 30 minutes allotted to, like, eating in the middle of the day, which everyone should do and should have the opportunity to do. So I try to block out some time for just, like, quiet food time.

[Kameka McCoy]

How do you actually. I want to lean into that kind of. How do you go about lunch? Are you somebody who, like, I have to step away from my desk, eat outside, listen to the birds? Or, like, are you like the rest of us with crumbs in the keyboard?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Crumbs in the keyboard. Unfortunately, if there was. If we had a cafeteria in the office, I would definitely eat in the cafeteria. When I was the digital director at Harper's, at Harper's Bazaar, I would eat in the cafeteria. I really liked taking 15 minutes, 20 minutes away to just go downstairs, talk with a friend, or eat by myself and then go back upstairs and start the day. I don't think it's too much to ask to be able to step away from your desk for 20 minutes to eat.

[Tim Peterson]

When it comes to meeting management, like, on the spectrum from I just. The meetings take, however long they take. I go into it. It's very freewheeling to the, like, Amazon, everyone needs to have written a memo before the meeting. We're limiting it at 20 minutes and then, you know, cutting it from there. What's your style of managing meetings?

[Niki Yoganaki]

That's such a good question. I have to say I was shocked when I heard that that's how Amazon meetings happen. Like, this is crazy. I probably fall somewhere in between. I learned as an assistant that I really liked, especially when we had brainstorms for people to be prepared to be prepped. So we send out what we're going to be talking about, like, or, you know, what we're expecting to discuss in the meeting a couple days before, a week before, probably to prep people. I don't love a freewheeling brainstorm. Sort of like, let's all vibe. Unfortunately, in my Capricorn Nature, I find that to be a waste of time. And so I like to be prepared for brainstorms. But if they go, you know, 15, 20 minutes over, I think that is the beauty of working in a creative industry and working in office. And so I like to allow time for that as well.

[Kameka McCoy]

How do you strike a balance right in that space? Because if you're booked, you're booked up with meetings. Like, where do you find time for stillness, inspiration, right. And that type of deal.

[Niki Yoganaki]

That's a lot of mornings for me. So I sort of, you know, you work outside of the hours of work. Like people often ask me, like, what are your hours? Quote unquote. And I was like, I don't have those. Like they don't exist. And there's a big blurring of work and personal and inspiration. I think by nature of the job that I do. And so I do on Fridays like to have a fair amount of like quiet time to myself and then mornings as well. So that's when the, like not starting meetings. I mean, 9:30 is really a stretch. It would be nice to not have meetings before 11, but I have to be respectful of other people's time. I get it. So 10 is when I really like to start meetings. And then, you know, the 8 to 10 before that is when the brainstorming for myself comes in.

[Kameka McCoy]

Do you have a cutoff for the end of the day? Whether that be, you know, 5:30pm sharp, we're done, I've got to head home. Or what does that look like?

[Niki Yoganaki]

Not sharp? It does take if I'm going home, right? Because like the way that my day can often be scheduled is that I have meetings in the office and then my executive editor calls it my third shift, which is when I go to events. So if I have an event that I need to go to, starts at six, then I try to get there on the earlier side, then I can get home. It's an hour commute for me home. And so I don't like to be. I don't like to get home that late. Like I still gotta eat dinner and wind down. And so I like to, if I can leave the office by probably 6. Latest.

[Kameka McCoy]

Reasonable.

[Tim Peterson]

Are you a time blocking person? Like, do you especially like for your lunch, do you put that, like block that off on your calendar? Do you let people put stuff on your calendar?

[Niki Yoganaki]

I don't have an assistant, so I have to let people put stuff on my calendar, which means I do block time off. And I block time off for commuting as well because that's when it gets like actually crazy because if I'm at home and I know that it takes an hour to get somewhere, I have to block off that commute time. So nobody put throws a meeting on there. Right. So there is a lot of time blocking that I have to do. Just so, I mean, I do find myself double booked a lot, but that's sort of the nature of the game as well.

[Tim Peterson]

How do you deal with those situations? Who gets the meeting?

[Niki Yoganaki]

No one. Sometimes I'm just like, sorry, guys, I can't do both. And it's sort of, it depends on if it's like an outside meeting or if something can be moved. There is a lot of Tetris when it comes to my scheduling, but I'm really also trying to make a concerted effort to enable, or I guess enable is the right word, I think, to encourage my team to have these meetings on their own. Like, I don't need to be in every single meeting. I don't need to be in every single brainstorm. You guys can do this without me. You're very well equipped, you are smart and you can then present the best options to me and then I can choose from there, you know.

[Tim Peterson]

So end of the day, you're done at the office. And let's say it's not a day where you have an event or a dinner to go to. Are you. I'll pick up dinner on the way home. I have factor meals delivered or you cook.

[Niki Yoganaki]

So on like Mondays and Fridays, I like to end the day. I like to cook. My boyfriend would probably say otherwise, but he's lying. I do like to cook. And so, you know, it's usually some sort of like chicken or fish. We, we eat pretty simply in the house. Chicken, fish, vegetable, carb. Otherwise it, you know, the texting on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday starts between me and Philippe and it's like 4pm what are we eating for dinner? What's at home? Like all of that.

[Kameka McCoy]

Planning to end it. I, I have to ask if we started the day, we open our eyes and we look at the phone by the time that you've ended the day. Are we also back to scrolling, checking that inbox one more time.

[Niki Yoganaki]

Oh, 1,000%. But that doesn't come, that doesn't come without like Bravo or some sort of TV coming before, you know, the wind down does include some reality tv. I find it very. It's like a car wash for the brain. I can sort of wipe my day clean. So I like some reality. And then, yes, like one sort of last sweep and then hopefully I'm in bed by 10 lights out. You know, knocked out by like 10:15. I don't have trouble sleeping usually, so I can fall asleep pretty quickly.

[Kameka McCoy]

What a blessing.

[Tim Peterson]

I know it sounds like a full.

[Niki Yoganaki]

Day, so I know I have, like worn. I always say I have to like wear myself out like a baby and then, and then I can sleep well.

[Tim Peterson]

Awesome. Well, Nikki, really, really fascinating to hear how you, like, manage your day to day. I think I picked up some tips that hopefully I'm going to implement in my own workflows. But thanks for coming on the show.

[Niki Yoganaki]

Of course. Thank you for having me. Wait guys, this is so funny. My boyfriend just texted me. Are you eating dinner at home? It's 11:30.

[Tim Peterson]

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Digiday Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. Get more from Digiday with our daily newsletter sent out each weekday morning. Visit digiday.comnewsletters to sign up.