Creator longevity with Brandon Edelman, Plus Linda Yaccarino's exit, WPP's Leadership shake up and the AI browser wars

Summary

The Digiday Podcast: Detailed Episode Summary

Release Date: July 15, 2025

Title: Creator Longevity with Brandon Edelman, Plus Linda Yaccarino's Exit, WPP's Leadership Shake-Up, and the AI Browser Wars

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1. Introduction to the Episode

Hosted by Kamika McCoy and Tim Peterson, this episode delves into significant shifts in the digital media landscape, including executive changes at major companies and the evolving role of content creators. A special guest, Crystal Hanlon, platforms reporter, provides insights into Linda Yaccarino's unexpected departure from X (formerly Twitter). The episode also features an in-depth conversation with Brandon Edelman, a successful TikTok creator known as Brand Flakes, discussing the longevity and future of content creation careers.

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2. Linda Yaccarino's Departure from X

Timestamp: [00:25] – [10:59]

Key Points:

• Unexpected Exit: Crystal Hanlon expresses surprise at Linda Yaccarino's departure, highlighting it wasn't anticipated ("I did not have that on my bingo card for this week" – [01:13]).

• Strained Relationship with Elon Musk: Reports suggest a deteriorating relationship between Yaccarino and Elon Musk, leading to friction within the company ([01:36]).

• Conflict Over Advertisers: Yaccarino focused on attracting advertisers, while Musk's approach seemingly deterred them. This tension may have contributed to her exit ([02:00]).

• Political Shifts: Musk's foray into politics with the formation of the American Party created uncertainty about X's future direction, potentially making it a platform for his political endeavors ([02:35]).

• Loss of Power Post-Acquisition: The acquisition of X by Xai reduced Yaccarino's influence, transitioning her role from CEO to a division head, which may not have aligned with her initial vision ([03:15]).

• Impact of Controversies: Incidents like Grok's anti-Semitic remarks might have been the final catalyst for her departure, although underlying issues had been brewing for years ([04:00]).

• Legacy and Performance: While Yaccarino successfully increased advertiser numbers and implemented brand safety measures, overall revenue figures remained below pre-Musk levels ([04:48]).

• Future Prospects: Yaccarino is expected to have a strong reputation in the advertising industry, positioning her well for future leadership roles or ventures beyond her tenure at X ([08:13]).

Notable Quotes:

• Crystal Hanlon on Yaccarino's relationship with Musk: “the relationship between her and Elon had been souring for quite some time” ([01:36]).
• On Yaccarino's impact at X: “She is like the hero, because she's managed to save Twitter, or now X as we call it” ([08:13]).

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3. Leadership Changes at WPP

Timestamp: [11:05] – [15:06]

Key Points:

• New CEO Appointment: Cindy Rose is appointed as the new CEO of WPP, succeeding Mark Reed. Initially, her appointment surprised some due to limited public recognition ([11:22]).

• Cindy Rose's Background: With extensive experience at Microsoft and existing roles within WPP’s board, Rose’s enterprise-focused background aligns with the evolving needs of the agency industry ([12:23]).

• Challenges Facing WPP: The agency holding company has recently lost major clients like Coca-Cola and Mars, highlighting the competitive pressure from rivals like Publicis and impending mergers like Omnicom-IPG ([12:57]).

• Focus on AI and Data Integration: WPP's AI platform, WPP Open, signifies a move towards integrating data and AI to strengthen client relationships and offer advanced insights, making Rose’s expertise valuable ([14:48]).

• Advertiser Confidence: While leadership changes are underway, advertisers emphasize the importance of hands-on execution and effective budget utilization, indicating a period of anticipation until Rose's strategies unfold ([15:06]).

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Peterson on the significance of Rose’s background: “someone who has a background again in running an enterprise business, that feels like it's going to be integral to getting WPP out of this” ([13:10]).
• Kamika McCoy on advertiser concerns: “advertisers are very much like, I need to know that the hands on work is still going to happen” ([14:48]).

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4. The AI Browser Wars

Timestamp: [15:06] – [22:35]

Key Points:

• OpenAI's New Browser: OpenAI is set to launch its own web browser, challenging established players like Chrome and Safari. The browser aims to integrate AI capabilities, potentially reshaping how users interact with the web ([16:10]).

• Impact on Search Engines: With browsers increasingly dictating market trends, OpenAI's entry could disrupt Google Search dominance by embedding AI-driven search functionalities ([16:39]).

• Agentic Web Concept: The discussion introduces the idea of an "agentic web," where AI agents handle tasks autonomously, transforming traditional web browsing into a more interactive and automated experience ([18:02]).

• Competitive Landscape: Perplexity's AI browser, Comet, and potential AI iterations from Google and Apple indicate a burgeoning competitive environment. These developments could redefine user engagement and data interaction on the web ([20:56]).

• Future Predictions: The AI-integrated browsers are poised to be game-changers, possibly comparable to the original iPhone launch in terms of their transformative impact on digital interactions ([21:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Peterson on the significance of AI browsers: “the agentic web is going to be a big deal and therefore browsers for this agentic web are going to be a massive deal” ([20:28]).
• Kamika McCoy on the potential impact: “how much are we actually going to be doing really any web browsing?” ([19:00]).

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5. In-Depth Interview: Brandon Edelman on Creator Longevity

Timestamp: [22:35] – [44:02]

Key Points:

• Transition to Full-Time Creator: Brandon Edelman shares his journey from a side hustle to a full-time content creator, emphasizing financial viability and personal fulfillment as key motivations to leave his 9-to-5 job ([24:35] – [25:00]).

• Building a Support Team: As Edelman's brand grew, he assembled a team to manage administrative tasks, allowing him to focus on content creation ([25:19] – [25:55]).

• Content Strategy: Edelman's approach involves posting two TikTok videos daily, focusing on stream-of-consciousness content that resonates with his audience by sharing authentic aspects of his life ([26:25] – [27:05]).

• Brand Collaborations: He discusses the balance between maintaining authentic content while integrating brand partnerships, highlighting successful collaborations like with Skinny Dipped ([28:01] – [29:54]).

• Networking and Relationship Building: Edelman emphasizes the importance of genuine relationships over transactional interactions, leveraging his extensive network from both his corporate and creator backgrounds ([30:21] – [32:52]).

• Diversification for Longevity: To ensure a sustainable career, Edelman advocates for diversifying content across multiple platforms (e.g., Instagram Reels, Threads) and exploring various content formats (e.g., public speaking, acting) to avoid dependence on a single platform ([34:04] – [37:24]).

• Handling Platform Volatility: Recognizing the precarious nature of platform stability, Edelman stresses the importance of having an owned audience and being adaptable to platform changes ([36:04] – [37:24]).

• Future Aspirations: Looking ahead, Edelman is open to expanding his brand beyond TikTok, considering opportunities in areas like hosting, acting, and potentially authoring a tell-all book or documentary ([42:23] – [43:41]).

Notable Quotes:

• Brandon Edelman on transitioning to full-time creation: “I was making more through brand deals than I am in like my bi-weekly, 80 hours a week paycheck” ([25:00]).
• On authentic content and brand safety: “when I'm posting a video that like they can tell I love to make” ([40:20]).
• On career longevity: “if someone’s like, hey, you're not going to be a TikToker forever, but eventually you're going to be doing the morning news” ([42:29]).

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6. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the dynamic nature of digital media and the importance of adaptability for both executives and content creators. Kamika McCoy and Tim Peterson highlight the ongoing transformations in leadership within major organizations and the emerging challenges and opportunities presented by advancements in AI technology. The conversation with Brandon Edelman underscores the necessity for content creators to build resilient, diversified careers to thrive in an ever-evolving digital landscape.

Closing Remarks:

• Encouragement for listeners to share and rate the podcast.
• Teasers for future episodes focusing on similar themes of digital transformation and media strategies.

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Takeaways

• Executive Moves Matter: Leadership changes at platforms like X and agencies like WPP have significant implications for their strategic directions and industry relationships.

• AI Integration is Inevitable: The launch of AI-powered browsers signals a major shift in how users interact with the web, potentially disrupting existing market leaders and creating new standards for digital experiences.

• Content Creator Sustainability: Success as a content creator requires not only leveraging current platforms effectively but also diversifying skills and presence across multiple channels to ensure long-term viability.

• Authenticity and Adaptability: Whether in executive roles or as digital creators, maintaining authenticity and the ability to adapt to new challenges are key to enduring success in the rapidly changing digital age.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essential discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear and engaging overview for those who have not listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Tim Peterson]

Foreign.

[Kamika McCoy]

Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of the Digiday Podcast, a show about the business of media and marketing. I'm your co host, Kamika McCoy, senior marketing reporter here at Digiday.

[Tim Peterson]

And I'm Tim Peterson, executive editor of video and audio Digital media. What's up, Kamiko?

[Kamika McCoy]

How are you, Tim? We've also got a very special guest joining us here to talk about one of our juicy scoops, Crystal Hanlon, our platforms reporter. Hi, Crystal.

[Crystal Hanlon]

Hey, Kamika. How are you doing?

[Kamika McCoy]

I'm doing all right. Later on in this episode, I talked to Brandon Edelman, who goes by Brand Flakes on Tick Tock. If you've seen his walks through Philly while he talks to his phone, he has over a million followers that he takes with him through his life. I caught up with him about the day in the life as a content creator, how he knew when it was time to quit his 9 to 5 and what the future trajectory or lifespan fan of what a content creator could be. But first, we've got this week's juicy scoops, including Linda Yaccarino, leaving Ex WPP's new CEO and OpenAI's web browser. But Krystal, you are here to talk to us about what's going on with Linda.

[Crystal Hanlon]

Yeah, I mean, not the not. I did not have that on my bingo card for this week, that is for sure. I was not expecting it at all. I mean, it came as a shock, I guess, in one respect. But at the same time, anyone and everyone that I have spoken to, whether it's either this week or even over the past two years, genuinely surprised that she stayed there as long as she did.

[Kamika McCoy]

So what happened?

[Crystal Hanlon]

I mean, that is the big and utter question right now. There's definitely a lot of speculation going around. So far from what it kind of comes across as and from reports I have been reading, it definitely seems like the relationship between her and Elon had been souring for quite some time. And there had definitely been some sort of, I mean, I don't know how you describe it in terms of I guess they just weren't getting on. There was definitely friction behind the scenes. I guess you could say it laid out a bit publicly in the sense of when she's trying to woo advertisers, he's doing the opposite and kind of keeping them away. Obviously the lawsuits that we've seen play out, but in terms of like the actual speculation around why she's left, I mean, there's anything from, we've obviously seen the kind of the bromance Between Elon Musk and Trump kind of separate now and completely fracture. So there's definitely an element of people saying, well, she's picked Trump over Elon because if the reports are to be believed from like the Wall Street Journal that they were strong arming advertisers, they no longer have that idea of, well, we've got Trump backing us doing this behind them to be able to pressure advertisers. So therefore she's picked Trump. Because why would you not pick the president of the U.S. there's the other idea as well, that Elon, obviously since she's been there for the last two years, I mean, his own like career portfolio has completely changed. He's now gone a lot more politics and in this past week or so, he's literally now started his own political party, the American Party. So there's obviously the concern around that, that there's been speculation that if that was the case, that that's how he's going down, then potentially X is now just going to become a mouthpiece for that party. So it's kind of not what she signed up for. There's the idea as well that when X was acquired by Xai earlier this year, it almost meant like she kind of lost a lot of power because as much as she was CEO, it kind of by that acquisition, it almost put and forced her into like a division head role versus being a CEO of an entire company. So in that sense, I mean, again, probably not what she signed up for. Can't forget also this week the recent outburst of Grok and the anti Semitic remarks. So some people are saying that was the last straw, but it definitely sounds like it was potentially that might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. But it definitely sounds like at least potentially from her perspective, at least from what I'm reading, it was probably a long kind of, it was a long while in the making. But this was kind of just, she had to just cut ties and what's.

[Tim Peterson]

Been her legacy at X? Because it feels mixed.

[Crystal Hanlon]

Yeah, I guess you could say it is mixed. I mean, I guess in one sense she did set out to a degree on what she set out to do, which was Wooback advertisers. Obviously it's still not to the same extent as what it was pre Musk in terms of the figures, any figures that I'm seeing, it's definitely nowhere near. I mean if we look at say emarketer back in 2022, they said that then Twitter was making around 4.73 billion. I mean, she's improved things obviously, because everything tanked after he took over the company. So everything like it's expected to grow again this year, but it's still only expected to make around 2.26 billion. So I mean, the figures are nowhere near. Still, according to Sensor Tower In December 2024, 52 of the top four advertisers spending on the platform at that time, they hadn't actually advertised on X prior to Musk's takeover in 2022. So that would indicate that she has actually brought new advertisers on board. And also even Media Radar, they've said that the amount of companies advertising each month on x during the second half of 2024 was up 18% year over year. That's even increased a further 30% in January this year, up to 4,200 companies. So in that sense, she has kind of started to do the long play of like bringing back advertisers, albeit whether reports are to be believed that there were strong arming impacts going on there. In terms of like what she actually did at the company though, I mean, it's not like she had a very easy job to start with. A lot of the advertisers initially were concerned about brand safety, so that was her big thing when she first came in trying to rebuild the actual brand safety on the platform. It was rebuilding the team. It was getting back the trustworthy accountability or tag brand safety certification. There was a whole big hoo ha about that for a while where the certification was removed, but they managed to get it back. She put in more brand safety controls and levers to the point that when I was speaking to advertisers, they were saying that if you compare them to other platforms, they're not actually too dissimilar. So that's kind of what led me to kind of understand then the real problem is not brand safety. Brand safety is almost a mask for why people are not advertising on X anymore. The problem and the crux of any problem that people seem to have was about the ultimate the owner and just his association and the controversies of what he was posting. So that's kind of what seemed to keep people at bay in that respect. I mean, she also brought in partnerships with the likes of Paris Hilton, Khloe Kardashian, Serena Williams, all the entertainment partnerships with the sports leagues like NBA NFL Originals. With off season, she's pivoted the platform to video first, trying to help Elon with his making it become an everything platform. But yeah, I guess you could say it's a bit of a mixed bag. Like, she didn't do bad in those things, but obviously two steps forward, 10 steps back with any move she made.

[Tim Peterson]

And it seems like now with her out of the mix, like, are you hearing from buyers whether spending with X is going to change without her being there?

[Crystal Hanlon]

I mean, anyone. I've genuinely struggled genuinely to find people or any advertisers that were genuinely backspending this whole entire time. I think anyone's that are. I mean, I don't know if it's just that they are very small to medium businesses and it might just be very, like, independent companies. Anyone that I've spoken to, it's still been the same message that it's been since he first took over, which is just, you know, what, not really worth my time. The only part that has really shifted in kind of, what, recent months, well, up until her announcement anyway, was just the fact that they were saying that, you know, if for a client, it seems like it's worth our time, if the performance is there, then we will consider it. So they were almost kind of considering it as if it was like almost an experimental platform. But that was a very big if, because when I'd say, okay, well, oh, so why are you doing it? Oh, no, no, we're still not doing it. But if it becomes okay, then we will maybe consider it in future.

[Kamika McCoy]

This, for me, begs the question of kind of like. And I know all of this is also speculative, like, where she goes next, right, Based on the work that she did while she was at X slash Twitter, like, has she burned bridges with advertisers to whatever role that she takes on next, that, you know, those relationships still stand to be successful in whatever role she goes to.

[Crystal Hanlon]

Weirdly, I don't think she has burned bridges. And I say that in the way of that. When I first was starting to speak to people that were kind of in her circles back when she first got appointed, the one thing that they said back then seems to me to still be true now. And that was the fact that, that if she manages to turn this platform around, she is like the hero, because she's managed to save Twitter, or now X as we call it. However, if it all goes down the pan and if she can't save it, it's never gonna be her problem because the real problem was Musk. And it seems like that situation has not actually changed that attitude towards her. It's almost like she's been absolved of the parts that she's played because no one's Doubting she had a very uphill battle throughout. However, again, if reports are to be believed about the strong army behind closed doors and then the lawsuit with Garm and the wfa, I mean, she played an equal role in those. So as much as she was still answerable to Elon, at the same time she still played her own parts and had her own actions.

[Tim Peterson]

And she hasn't said where she's going next, has she? Because that's like one of the interesting things is now we have someone who's been one of the most powerful people in advertising, even before X when she was at NBCU as chairman of their advertising business. Now she's in play for all of the companies who may be wanting, I don't know if she would want a head of ad sales position that feels like a step down after being a CEO, but maybe, or maybe someone who's looking for a CEO, like if this TikTok US thing happens, they're going to need a CEO.

[Crystal Hanlon]

I mean, you're not wrong. I mean, literally whenever, when I spoke to people originally when she was appointed, they did say that what she really wanted on her CV was that CEO title. So it kind of made sense when if she was overlooked for the Disney, I think it was the Disney role or the NBC role at the time, literally. At least then she knew here. Oh, NBC then. Literally. Yeah, it makes sense why she would kind of go to X or Twitter as it was then called. To be honest though, I don't even know if she would even at this stage like just pigeonhole herself into this industry because I don't know whether she might even go into politics herself. I mean, there was a speech that I saw of Trump literally about a month ago and when he was doing his speech, he like called out her name, she stood up, there was a whole like applause for her being just in attendance. So she's clearly out. It's not like she's just knows Trump via association of Elon anymore. She clearly has that connection there. Given the fact of how high profile she's become, she's almost like industry, I guess, celebrity in inverted commas. So I mean, who knows? It could be there could be a tell all book for all we know, there could be a Netflix documentary of what happened behind the scenes. At this point, I'd say she's probably got options and a lot of them.

[Kamika McCoy]

Thanks so much for joining us, Krystal. We will be on the lookout for coverage.

[Crystal Hanlon]

Perfect. Thanks guys. Great to be here.

[Kamika McCoy]

We're going to transition to talking from one CEO to another, which is Cindy Rose, the new CEO at WPP after Mark Reed has stepped down. Tim, how are you feeling about that news? More big C suite dues?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I'm feeling okay because I don't work at wpp.

[Kamika McCoy]

Correct.

[Tim Peterson]

So I'm insulated. But I was kind of similarly to how Crystal was surprised about Lindy Akarino leaving X, but then like kind of not surprised. I was surprised by WPP tapping Cindy Rose as CEO mainly because I wasn't familiar with her. But then reading up about her, the fact that she's on WPP's board already, but she has this enterprise background and Seb Joseph, our executive editor of news wrote about this. She makes a lot of sense. So after that initial surprise it was kind of like, okay, yeah, with how agency work is going, you kind of do want someone who has a background running the UK business at Microsoft. Microsoft, a big tech provider, big tech company with that enterprise background. Because that seems to be the future of agency work.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yes.

[Kamika McCoy]

So Cindy comes from Microsoft And I think September 1st is when the transition will officially happen. But to your point, I think what's interesting here is like kind of where WPP is at as a Holdco right now and why they need somebody like Cindy. Earlier this year it's been pretty widely reported that they lost two really big clients including Coke and Mars. Right. They've kind of fallen behind when it comes to like media business behind Publicis which you know, they need, they need a life shot here, you know what I mean?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, well and then there's also just the Omnicom IPG merger that's still in the works, but that also is going to affect WPP's standing publicist rise, not withstand it. And yeah, I mean losing two big clients in Mars and Coke, you hate to see that if you're at wpp. You love to see it if you're at any of the rival agencies. But it also kind of indicates again where it seems like the agency business is going. Is client relationships becoming more enterprise sales relationships? WPP has WPP open, which is its AI platform. All of the other agency hold cos start creating their own AI platforms. And there was an exec I was talking to at one of the major agency holding companies a couple weeks ago. We got to talking about their AI platform and AI agents and all the like and they were saying it's going to change the nature of client businesses because data is going to become intertwined in these platforms from the clients as well as from the agencies with AI taking advantage of that, learning from that, building insights on top of that. And that that's going to become really powerful the longer that those relationships go on. This person was putting it in a very positive light and it is. But I also read between the lines and I was just like, yeah, but that's also going to make it harder for clients to leave. And the person smiled at that. They weren't going to really engage in that part of the conversation, but you can see where these things are going. And so having someone who has a background again in running an enterprise business, that feels like it's going to be integral to getting WPP out of this. What it seems to be like a rut that it's been.

[Kamika McCoy]

Yeah. At the same time, like Seb also wrote about this. Like, while there's big news making headlines and things like that, advertisers are very much like, I need to know that the hands on work is still going to happen. And like my money is being spent well on things like this. So a lot more to happen September when that transition finally takes place.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Because I mean also the other part of is like, yes, that's true. But then you have like we've talked about before, meta saying by the end of 2026, we want it to be where just advertisers can give us their budget and what results they want to see and we'll take care of the rest. In which case, in those scenarios, do you need an agency that's going to appeal to different types of clients than necessarily like a Mars or a Coke? But if it can appeal to smaller advertisers who are generally direct response oriented, could it appeal to aspects of a Mars or a Koch?

[Kamika McCoy]

Yeah. To your point earlier, I'm also feeling okay about this news because not only do we not work at wpp, I'm also not working at an agency where my life just got more complicated.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. So speaking of things getting more complicated, OpenAI is about to launch a web browser. According to Reuters, OpenAI is planning to roll out this web browser in the next few weeks. Kimiko, would you use an OpenAI web browser?

[Kamika McCoy]

You know, unlike my thoughts on YouTube and cat videos, I am actually fully convinced of ChatGPT and whatnot. I feel like they've got the infrastructural backing. I think what's interesting is that this is different from the web as we know it. Right. And like also what that means for, I guess, the agentic web, if you.

[Brandon Edelman]

Want to call it that, as opposed.

[Kamika McCoy]

To our standard Web2. Maybe this is what Web3 looks like? I don't know. Are you going to use it?

[Tim Peterson]

I'm going to use it just because I use just about every browser. Because I just get curious. I've used Brave, I've used Tor, I've used was it Chrome, Canary, Firefox, Nightly. So I try to spread myself out across the, the different browsers, little data for everyone. Well, just also just like the browser. I feel like in the past six, seven years when it comes to our coverage, so much of it has become really oriented around the browser with what Apple has done via Safari, through intelligent tracking, Prevention with Google and Chrome and the third party cookies, which isn't really happening. But just that really underscored how primary of a position these browsers have in kind of dictating the market. So it makes a lot of sense why OpenAI would look at what Google's doing with search and AI mode, like we've talked about with Dan Taylor from Google a few weeks back and how if people get accustomed to we're all using Google Search so much anyways, if we just start using AI mode inside of Google Search, do we then need to actually be using a chatgpt or are we going to be happy there? I don't know. What do you think on that?

[Kamika McCoy]

I don't know because like to your point about like we've talked about this also on the podcast, it's like once I get to that initial answer, there's not necessarily any more digging that happens, right? There's kind of that stopgap. So if, I mean if other people operating in the same sense that I am, then you know, who's to say? I do want to, I do question if this poses like a real threat to Google Search business and like how much, you know, they could take up that market share.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, well that I guess was kind of what I was trying to get at is if people are just using Google Search and they use AI mode, then they're not using ChatGPT. Whereas if OpenAI can use its browser to get people to use its browser instead of Chrome or instead of Safari, where Google Search, at least for now, we'll see, you know, antitrust verdicts notwithstanding. But in Safari, where Google Search is the default search engine, if OpenAI can get people to use its browser, then it would be in a position to say, okay, we know you like using Google Search, how about you use ChatGPT instead for your search? And then, I mean really. So I'm working on a couple of our WTF explainer videos on AI agents and then model context protocol. So I'm going deep in like the agentic web right now. And it's kind of this idea that eventually how much are we actually going to be doing really any web browsing? Like right now we'll use websites to. I'm going to be in New York next week for our CTV advertising strategies event. I had to go on to websites to book my flight, to book my hotel, all that in the future I'm going to probably be able to have ChatGPT, Gemini or whatever. Just I'll be able to type in hey, I got a trip coming up to New York. Figure it out for me. I may not even have to say like what my dates are, my budget, it may have access to all that. And then AI agents will be the ones going to the websites, looking up flights, looking up hotels, making all of these decisions. And so it kind of changes the nature of web browsing. And so you could see how an OpenAI would want to be in charge of that whole infrastructure of the way that you and I as just regular ass people use the agentic web.

[Kamika McCoy]

I am curious also like if this becomes a situation where search, the way that we use search becomes like a separate entity in its own way and then like chatbots become their own separate entity if the two are like parallel exist or whatnot. I'm getting way too deep into, like I said, my hypotheticals here, my theories but I think that's something also to be considered in terms of like how these players shape up in the future because Perplexity also is planning to launch a web browser.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, this past Wednesday they launched a AI web browser called Comet. Now granted you have to be paying, I think it's $200 a month for perplexities like higher end subscription tier in order to access it. But so as much as I was saying like yeah, I like trying out all the browsers, I'm not about to pay $200 a month to use an AI browser unless like I could expense that, but I won't put that on Digitaire. But this seems to be where things are headed. I would not be surprised if at Google I o next May Google announces some AI version of Chrome. Assuming at that point Google still owns Chrome, which we're still waiting on how things are going to shake out with Chrome. Also, just what's Apple going to do with Safari? Could that be a big announcement at WWDC next year of there being an AI agent version of Safari? So I think this OpenAI web browser is Going to be a very big deal. Maybe not at launch, but it feels like it could be the web's version of the original iPhone launch in 2007 as like heralding in this new era. That's insanely outlandish. I could sound like an idiot 6 to 12 months from now for having said that. But I do really believe the agentic web is going to be a big deal and therefore browsers for this agentic web are going to be a massive deal.

[Kamika McCoy]

Well, it might give people a reason to actually upgrade their iPhones at this point, but. But I think on the topic of longevity, I want to switch gears and go back to the guest speaker or the guest segue.

[Tim Peterson]

Top tier segue.

[Kamika McCoy]

Speaking of longevity, we'll talk about the longevity of a creator's trajectory in their path. Which takes us back to the conversation with Brandon Edelman that we had. Just talking to him a little bit about, you know what, how you get into becoming a creator, what it takes to be able to quit your 9 to 5 and then like, you know, at the end of it, do you go the Mr. Beast route or do you join the retirement hype house? So we talked about all of those things.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I'm excited to listen to this conversation because I just did. I was at vidcon in June and talking to a bunch of creators, some of the very up and coming, having just launched their YouTube channels to people like Ian Hickox from Sposh, Dhar Mann from Dharman Studios. Eventually I talked to Rhett and Link from Mythical Entertainment and some creators in between about just the career trajectory for creators especially. And it was Rhett McLaughlin from Mythical Entertainment who made the point because I was just like, yeah, it feels like with Mythical, with Dhar Mann Studios, with Smosh, we're seeing creators now being the Walt Disney's of their time in terms of they're not joining Disney so much as trying to create their own versions of the Walt Disney Company. And Rhett made the point of like, yeah, here's the thing, Walt Disney was not Mickey Mouse. And that has just really stuck with me ever since.

[Kamika McCoy]

I love that that's there's a finger clap happening.

[Brandon Edelman]

You guys can't see it, but so.

[Tim Peterson]

I'll just say I'm really looking forward to hearing this conversation that you had with Brandon.

[Kamika McCoy]

All right, well, with no further ado, let's get to it. Hi, Brandon. Hi, how are you? I'm doing so well. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today.

[Brandon Edelman]

I'm so excited to be here I.

[Kamika McCoy]

Want to jump right into it. You became a content creator, you said in 2021. What's that journey been like?

[Brandon Edelman]

Oh my God, it has been insane. I started my content creation journey as a side hustle, posting on this side every day. After my 9 to 5 job, I would get home and try to post two videos a day and I manifested that eventually that would be my full time job. I was able to make that dream a reality. About a year into it, when I was able to quit my 9 to 5 job and become a full time content creator, what was the signal to.

[Kamika McCoy]

You that it was time to quit the full time and move into it?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, it was really just when I was noticing one, I was so much more fulfilled in doing content creation and two, financially my paychecks every week were being outweighed by the ones I was getting as a content creator. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm making more through brand deals than I am in like my bi weekly, 80 hours a week paycheck. So I was like, this is the way to go.

[Kamika McCoy]

Yeah, talk to me a little bit about those brand deals. How do you manage this? I imagine like there's a team behind you, right? Yeah, a little bit about that.

[Brandon Edelman]

When a lot of things started to pick up, I knew I needed support around me because it was getting to the point where I felt like I wasn't able to create because just managing my inbox and the brands that were inbound was becoming my own nine to five again. And I was like, I don't know how to Send invoices and W9s and nor do I want to be doing that. So that was when I was like, okay, it's time to build a team around me that can help negotiate for me, get me paid properly and just help me with all of the kind of admin so I could really focus on creating.

[Kamika McCoy]

How long did it take to kind of build that team out? Like, you're kind of coming flying blind here. How did you figure that out?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, I say I quit my full time job and a few months later I started working with a team. And then just recently I even leveled up. And now I'm with my amazing manager Haley and just always knowing like, okay, like when I feel like in life, when you feel like you're outgrowing something and you need something new, that's when it's like time to like change and make a change and do something different. That's what I was doing.

[Kamika McCoy]

Yeah, love that. Okay, walk me through your content creation.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, so I'm a lifestyle creator. My content is very stream of consciousness. I'm an oversharer. I typically try to post like two videos on TikTok a day and really because of that I don't have a lot of drafts. Basically whatever happens to me that day or whatever thought comes across my mind that day is typically what I'm posting about. It's not super planned ahead. And I think the beauty of that is my followers are just seeing me live my life and every day something new happens in my life that I want to yap about. So that's really like my content creation strategy. I post about everything from dating to friendship to food to where I live to traveling. There's really not a topic that I can think of that is off limits.

[Kamika McCoy]

How do you decide what goes where? Like you know, does the chaotic content. Content make it to like LinkedIn or.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, no, I think so for Instagram. I've noticed what really makes the video go viral is that reshareable content, you know, something that I can post that people are going to repost to their stories that really fuels the virality. So a lot of times that's like short form videos, like a 15 second video of me kind of ranting about something inventing. Whereas I can really explore I think a little bit more on different topics with TikTok. Especially when I talk about like transparency and content creation strategy and salary, maybe some politics to a lot of those times those are more discussion based videos I think the TikTok algorithm really enjoys. But Instagram kind of focusing more on like shorter form punchier content. But there's always a time to experiment too and really like branch out.

[Kamika McCoy]

Have you ever been concerned like with the content being chaotic?

[Brandon Edelman]

Right.

[Kamika McCoy]

That is going to turn off a brand advertiser?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yes, of course in the beginning I realized like quickly on I was like, hey, it's so great to have fun but like there needs to be an element of responsibility and quote unquote brand safe. But also just, you know, I think that was something that surprised. I feel like a lot of brands and maybe even people, it's like what you see is like not always the full picture. I'm very regimented and very strategic. I'm very hardworking and I'm always want to work with a brand to meet them where they're at. I'm never trying to like make something, you know, super chaotic and make something unserious. And I think when a lot of brands first met with me and they saw you know like oh my God, you're on time, you're proper, you have, you know, what you're talking about. I think they were very impressed with that as well. To the end of the day, you know, you want to work with brands that really believe in you and also embrace your chaos.

[Crystal Hanlon]

Yeah.

[Brandon Edelman]

So that's always a fun part of it as well.

[Kamika McCoy]

For the stream of consciousness, and you're working with brands and things like that. I mean, for your. For your regular content, you got your stream of consciousness, but for brand collaborations, partnerships and things like that, how do you approach that content? Do you storyboard that type of thing or.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, most brands, they want to see some sort of a concept, and, you know, they'll send a brief over of, you know, what they're looking for and kind of the details that they need. And then for me, it's my job as the creator to think, how can I, like, already organically weave this into my content? So if I'm doing an ad for, you know, food, and I do a lot of chaotic weekend debriefs of me and my kitchen in my bathrobe, okay, well, then let's throw the candy in that I'm also making an advertisement for, and I'm eating it as I'm talking about it. I just did a really great one with Skinny Dipped, where they released, you know, a new food. And we were just. I was just telling my life, like, how I typically do, like, FaceTime date with my followers, filling them in on everything going on as I'm ending this, as I'm eating the Skinny Dip chocolate. And it performed so incredibly well. And it's really getting to work with those brands that understand your tone of voice and understand your strategy and what kind of content you make. And when it's a seamless integration, it performs so well.

[Kamika McCoy]

Yeah, I was gonna say, how much freedom do you have kind of when it comes to putting those things together? Do you have a checklist or.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah. Recently, brands are really getting it. And a lot of my most recent partnerships, there's a ton of freedom, you know, and then, of course, there are going to be partnerships that sometimes have a little more red tape, what we like to call, and a little more rules. But for me, I'm always going to push and find a way to make it as authentic and organic as possible.

[Kamika McCoy]

Talk to me about the networking style.

[Brandon Edelman]

I love to yap. I love to find out where people are from. I like to find out where they're working for. I feel like I have a really great network between my previous job as A, you know, working nine to five in the fashion industry, then also from doing content creation. For four years, I've worked with over 100 brands, over 100 agencies. So there's always. I love finding like a common ground, like, you know, so and so, or you're from here or oh, my, Like, I met so many people from Philly this week, which has been incredible. And I'm like, where do you go to the beach? Like, what's your short town? Like, what restaurants do you go at? And then just kind of seamlessly working from there is just when, like, authentic connection is really like where my bread and butter is with networking.

[Kamika McCoy]

Is any of the hope from these networks, networking sessions or anything like that, like, to strike a deal as soon as possible or like a long game? How do you approach it?

[Brandon Edelman]

You know, you never want someone to feel like an interaction is very transactional. Yeah. I think for us. And this is something I learned in the fashion, like, business as well. It's like, build a relationship first. And what will come with that is going to be something incredible. Whether it stays just a relationship in a great network that could lead you to something else. Obviously it's incredible when that conversation leads to something right away. But I think for me personally, it's like, like I said sort of earlier, showing people, like, what I am. Like, I would like to think I'm the same offline as I am online, but showing another side to me as well and making connections and if it becomes something great and if not, just building my network. And that's something I'm super passionate about networking. But, yeah, we never want to, like, come across as, like, it's super transactional because that's not personal and it just doesn't. It's not. It's not a good motivation. You know, we want to learn as well and make connections and forging relationships while we're here.

[Kamika McCoy]

I think anytime anybody's asked me a similar question, I tell them, like, I don't really network. I just have like a bunch of loose friendships.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Kamika McCoy]

I mean, still, that's a lot of people. So, like, how do you maintain these relationships?

[Brandon Edelman]

Oh, my gosh. Well, Lucky. Luckily I, you know, get to go to, like, conferences like this, you know, here and there, and I get to see these people. Like, even today we're sitting in ltk.

[Kamika McCoy]

Yeah.

[Brandon Edelman]

I met Risa, who brought me here on a zoom call three years ago, and we followed each other after our conversation and we stayed in contact. I think that is something I've always Been an advocate for. It's like, I don't want to just meet someone, have a hand, she can walk away. Like yesterday I'm at a lunch with Meta and I made sure that the people I was sitting with, we know we followed each other after. Then I saw one of them at the street at night.

[Kamika McCoy]

I was like, oh my gosh, we were just together.

[Brandon Edelman]

So always like kind of, you know, maintaining those relationships and not just trying to be like a one off, like, hi, nice to meet you and walking away. Like I always want to like stay up to date with everybody.

[Kamika McCoy]

How do you think that the role, like beyond the networking, they're also something in the festivals is like what I think is interesting. Like creators are having a bigger, bigger presence obviously at a place like VidCon. Like that's the entire point. Right, right. But talk to me a little bit about how you see the role of creators changing in these places.

[Brandon Edelman]

Brands are becoming creators and creators are becoming brands and creators are developing their own brands. So it really makes sense for creators to absolutely have a seat at the table at all these conversations and panels and. And you know, with the way that digital is going, there are so many people that are watching TikTok and they're watching social media more than they're watching TV. Even I myself, when I'm watching TV these days, I still have like TikTok in front of me. I know, but it's just the way that it's going and we have to be a part of those conversations. It's just brands are really now, you know, the creators are becoming the forefront of what people are looking for. And there's no whether you like it or not, you can't deny it.

[Kamika McCoy]

We talked about this a little bit before the mics got hot. And by hot I mean on. But this concept of like creators really having like new verticals under the umbrella of creator, where like maybe you're a publisher, maybe your talent, maybe you're a brand partner, how does that show up for you? Or are you wearing all the hats?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, you know, I can't do everything, but I can do a lot. And I think for me it's always about, okay, Master TikTok. I know I can make a killer brand deal. I know I can make a funny viral post, but it's like, okay, now what can I challenge myself to next? Is it on air hosting? Is it red carpet correspondent? Is it getting into, you know, a little bit of scripted content and maybe doing, you know, ad campaigns where there are shop more digital and commercial Based. And that's really the fun, exciting parts for me, like getting to work with brands now in a way where we're actually creating something together.

[Kamika McCoy]

Actually, yeah, I want to talk more about that because you're bringing up the concept of like diversification, how important that is.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah.

[Kamika McCoy]

How do you think? Think? Well, actually, let me back up. When did diversification kind of first the light bulb pop on, say I need to start doing that.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, I think when I got like my first probably like 150,000 followers, you know, I would say I probably noticed like a little bit of a slowdown. I was like, okay, I need to continuously grow. And the way to do that is to branch out and post different kinds of content and diversify brand flakes. I don't want to just be known for one thing. I don't want to just be known as like the chaotic party guy. And that's when I started making one of my most, most, you know, incredibly successful series, which was TikTok transparency, where I talked about, hey, the tolls that this can take on your mental health. You know, the admin stuff that goes into it, from filing your taxes to the amount of money you make and the strategy of posting consistently. And I saw such an incredible response from people who are like, oh, it's nice to see this information come from a creator themselves who is established. And that has really helped me grow in my audience. And from there it's always about, okay, what can I do next? You know, Now I'm hit 1.3 million followers on TikTok. I want to continue to grow. So now it's like, okay, how can I interact with those 1.3 million that are already there? How can I show them, hey, I see you and I want to build community with you. And that has really helped me diversify and continue to build my audience.

[Kamika McCoy]

I'll also say this, like on the platforms themselves, like, stuff can get real shaky, right? Yeah, of course we were facing a never ending threat of a ban for.

[Brandon Edelman]

TikTok still going on.

[Kamika McCoy]

You've got the ups and downs of the platform and I think to the point of diversification, an owned audience starts to become important. How have you thought about that?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, no, I think the first shift was me. Like few years ago, TikTok was really my only platform and I was like, what am I doing? Like, it's fun to post these statically pictures, like pleasing pictures on Instagram, but like, I have great content that I've already made and produced sitting on TikTok. I need to try Repurposing it to reels. And sure enough, now I'm at almost 400,000 followers on Reels. Three years ago or two years ago, I had 20,000 followers and I doubled my business by doing that. And now it's like a lot of the brands that work with us, they want the same video cross posted to TikTok and Instagram. So always thinking about, hey, you never want to be pigeonholed and just to one platform, you know, you're obviously going to have your strongest platform, which for me is TikTok. But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be dipping my toes into other things. And it's, you know, just this week I downloaded threads and I was like, you know, I think some of the content that I'm posting on TikTok could translate into threads and you know, always being open to that conversation. On the other side of the coin, also accepting the fact that you're one person, you can't be everywhere because you need to still focus on, you know, those platforms that are rewarding your audience that has been there for you since the beginning and, you know, creating in that strategy that you're the most familiar.

[Kamika McCoy]

With, what kind of drew you to threads because it's a predominantly text based app. So how are you thinking about that?

[Brandon Edelman]

A lot of my really successful videos within the last few months on TikTok have been about content strategy, have been about politics. And I think I've seen so much of a space for that on threads that I want to continue to develop that relationship and kind of maybe have those conversations. Not just on TikTok, not just digitally, like through, you know, video format, but also on threads as well. And also just getting into more like I love watching reality TV and I've never necessarily, necessarily make a ton of tick tocks about that, but maybe that's a platform I want to try. Threads out. Like Love island right now is going crazy on Threads. I'm like, I should be sharing my recap and my thoughts too on that too. So kind of figuring out, you know, where is there more space for me that could be had and maybe some ideas that aren't always, you know, high performers on TikTok. Does that mean that they could live on threads? Potentially yes.

[Kamika McCoy]

That's also very interesting. Like, how do you determine success? Obviously like views is a good metric but like how do you determine success?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, views is great. You know, I think for me though, always looking at like, I always look at like a, like to view ratio. Like even if a video let's say gets 30,000 views. If I still got 3,000 likes, I'm converting 10% to, you know, from my watch time and to engage liked posts. And that's always great for me to see. You know, you never want to see something that has a ton of views and so little likes. Yeah, that's usually an indicator that that video is like, probably a negative video, if anything. I'm always hoping that, you know, even if something doesn't go super viral view wise, that my audience that is seeing whatever it is, still is loving it. And I see that typically all the time. And that's a great reinforcement for me.

[Kamika McCoy]

Related to the views. Like, is that also an indicator of, like, when it's time to pivot? So we did a story maybe last year that looked at like, there were a lot of, like, skit comedians who turned to food content creation, you know, so kind of how do you determine when to pivot?

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah, you know, I never want to say because I always say, embrace your flops. And like, even your low performing videos, like, they're still important and they're important for that sense that you get to see, oh, this is not performing that well. That tells me, hey, maybe I need to pivot. And it gives you that knowledge that you need, like, you need a worst seller just as much as you need a bestseller to figure that out, you know. So for me, it's, you know, understanding. Okay, you know, maybe there's a series of mine that was so successful when I first started out, but now, you know, it's not as successful. And also what's really important is if I'm showing up on this platform making two videos a day, I need to actually like the content I'm making. And some of the stuff that I loved to make in the beginning, I don't love to make anymore. Like, I'll be brutally honest, I don't like making Day in the Life videos. I don't like feeling like every moment of my day I have to have my camera out because I'm such a person that thrives on in real life connection. So does that mean I'm never going to make a Day in the Life video? Absolutely not. But is that something I'm drawn to all the time?

[Crystal Hanlon]

No.

[Brandon Edelman]

And that's okay because it's important for me to like what I'm creating. Because when I love what I make, I think it translates online, especially to my audience that I felt like I've built such a genuine connection with. They can tell when I'm smiling. Chin to chin, like you know, ear to ear when I'm posting a video that like they can tell I love to make.

[Kamika McCoy]

Speaking of day in life, walk me through a day in your life. How, you know, you wake up in the morning. Do you check social first and emails and meetings? How do you go about that?

[Brandon Edelman]

Oh my God. My therapist would yell at me. But yes, I do wake up and I check my phone first thing in the morning. I'm sorry, I need you. It's sitting right there. I need to catch up. And then I love to. I was just saying this last night. I will never make coffee. I'll never have a coffee maker. I force myself to buy coffee because it gets me out of my house. I like to, even if it's just like a five minute walk down the street, I like to have a little social interaction. I've been on my 10,000 step journey, so I'm trying to get 10,000 steps and a lot of those walks are where I film some of my most viral videos, which is great. My Hot Girl walking series is probably my most viral series of all. So yeah, I like to post 2 times a day during the day. I really try to keep my schedule almost as similar to it was with nine to five. Like booking meetings with, you know, clients, managers, potential brand partnerships, having those live in that nine to five spaces. And then I usually post one video at five and typically a second video at seven o' clock at night. Try to live, you know, a human life, get some downtime, relax, watch some tv, monitor the comments, respond to comments. But you know, with success comes crazy scheduling. Recently I've been on the road a lot, which is amazing. We are, you know, on the go, go, go and you know, but then I'll come back on Saturday and I might sleep the whole day, every day. I hate that phrase, but it's true. Every day really is different.

[Kamika McCoy]

So when you do have your downtime, what are you watching? What are you reading?

[Brandon Edelman]

I'm a reality TV fan. I love competition reality so shows like the Traitors, the Challenge, Big Brother, Survivor. I'm a big Love island fan. I love series like that. I'm also really into like scary movies. I love to watch like horror films. I'm a huge foodie. If I'm not on my phone, chances are I'm out to dinner and drinking martinis with the girls. Love, love, love that.

[Kamika McCoy]

And the last thing that I wanted to ask is you've been a content creator full time since 2021.

[Brandon Edelman]

Yeah.

[Kamika McCoy]

What's the longevity here? How long, you know, do we join the 65, join the retirement hype house or.

[Brandon Edelman]

You know, I think the beauty of this career and this industry is it's so new. I mean, the intern is like 25 years old, so who knows where it's going to go? And I love that because I think what I struggled with in my 9 to 5 was I looked at my boss and I thought, do I want her job? And I didn't. And I was like, there's no longevity for me here because I'm training to eventually take her position and I don't want her position. And that's what's so exciting for me. As a content creator, I'm thinking, oh, my God, could I own my own brand? Could I own my own agency? Could I, you know, become an, you know, on air correspondent? And that stuff excites me. There's passion there and there's future where I'm like, if someone's like, hey, you're not going to be a tiktoker forever, but eventually you're going to be doing the morning news and you're going to be working for a huge network, I'm like, okay, that's okay with me. Like, I'm fine with that. So we'll see where it goes. You know, I'm super happy to forever be a tiktoker, but who even knows if TikTok is going to be around next year? You know, you never know. So I like to diversify my skills and do more opportunities like public speaking, acting, any type of interview styles, podcasting, and continue to show my talents and hope that, you know, I'm never just pigeonholing myself into one lane.

[Kamika McCoy]

I love that. So we're not taking the retirement house off the table?

[Brandon Edelman]

No, we're not.

[Kamika McCoy]

We may also have some brand flakes merchandise.

[Brandon Edelman]

Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes. Could be coming down the pipeline.

[Kamika McCoy]

Brandon, I can't thank you enough for spending some time with us on the podcast today. It's been a treat.

[Brandon Edelman]

This has been incredible. Thank you so much for having me.

[Kamika McCoy]

Well, that brings us to the end of this episode of the Digiday podcast. Thank you to everyone for listening and please don't forget to share this episode with someone who you think would enjoy it. You can even rate us and leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Tim Peterson]

It.