← The Digiday Podcast
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- [00:00]
Peggy McCann
Foreign.
- [00:10]
Kameka McCoy
Welcome to another episode of the Digiday Podcast, the show about the business of media and marketing. I am your co host, Kameka McCoy, senior marketing reporter here at Digiday and I am here with Peggy McCann, Chief Media Officer of GSD&M AD Agency. Hi, Peggy, how are you?
- [00:26]
Peggy McCann
Good. How you doing? Kimiko? Hi.
- [00:28]
Kameka McCoy
I'm doing so good. This is your first can. Welcome. How are you taking it all in so far?
- [00:33]
Peggy McCann
It's overwhelming, beautiful and amazing. Absolutely love it though. It is hot. If you've been here, you know it's hot. I'm coming from Austin, Texas, so for me to tell you it's hot here, it is hot.
- [00:46]
Kameka McCoy
Well, we are so grateful to be in the Spotify podcast studio today where they've got the AC on, so we're feeling okay. And we are here to talk today about retail media. It's a beat that I've been covering for a couple of months now and even within that time span we've seen a lot of changes in the space. One of the most interesting things is I'm seeing almost like a retail media network, ad network, Commerce Media Corner happening over by Yacht Row where you've got Chase Media Solutions and you've got Miracle and Albertson's got a grocery store this year. So being Chief Media officer, talk to me a little bit about what does that say about the state of retail media right now?
- [01:21]
Peggy McCann
Yeah, I mean there's, it's interesting if you read the trades, it's predicted that retail media network spending is going to actually surpass linear TV this year. So with that, it's not a surprise that retail media networks would be very prevalent here at Cannes. I think they're pushing a lot of innovation and thought leadership into the channel and I think you're seeing a maturation that has accelerated in the past two years. Likely why I wasn't here at Cannes the last two years. I know two years ago retail media networks were not even really here. Really couldn't find them. Last year, I think was the time that they, the first time they really made a big sort of presence. So this year I expect a lot more sophistication in what you're seeing in terms of the pop up experiences, the messaging, the meetings and conversations they're having. We're even seeing for the first time, actually there is a subcategory within the Cannes lions for retail media network. So the industry is really paying attention.
- [02:21]
Kameka McCoy
Yeah. To you, does that signal like from your POV as Chief Media officer, does that signal like how much more Spend is being poured into this. Given that they've got a bigger presence at Cannes.
- [02:33]
Peggy McCann
Yeah, absolutely. We're seeing estimates about 15% increase in spend year over year in retail media networks. I think a big theme you're going to hear this year is really about the sophistication of the ad formats within retail media networks. I think there's a recognition both on the advertiser side and the retail media network side that they are no longer just that kind of lower funnel conversion tactic. They really have a role within the full funnel ecosystem. And I think you're going to hear a lot about that this week. In terms of new formats around discovery. I think a lot more focused on sort of building the emotional connection and the experiences that is almost what drew people to retail in the first place. They wanted to walk into a place. Yes. They had to go buy things, but you want that physical experience. You want something that feels very tangible. And I think initially retail media networks launched as a lower funnel search display conversion that just lost that experience. And I think you're going to hear this week a lot about how that sort of human experience and that emotional experience is going to come back.
- [03:41]
Kameka McCoy
Yeah, we've seen like really trending topics happen at Cannes before. Like I remember the Metaverse was a big thing. That's not something that you hear about anymore. Kind of what signals to you, just as you're walking around past these places and these pop ups and these experiences, what does that signal to you? Like, is this a moment that we've absolutely gone beyond flash in the pan trending and that retail media's got some staying power being here at Cannes?
- [04:03]
Peggy McCann
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, you know, at first it was almost viewed as okay, retailers have an amazing treasure trove of data.
- [04:13]
Kameka McCoy
Right.
- [04:13]
Peggy McCann
Their first party data is incredibly valuable. And I think initially it was retailers saying, well, how do we monetize this? And advertisers saying, how do we get our hands on it? Because we're afraid we're going to lose the data through depreciation of cookies. You know, our advertisers are working hard to build their own valuable first party data, but that doesn't always scale fast enough. So to be able to sort of unlock that data source initially was, you know, a huge win for the, for the industry. But I think it just took a while to really figure out what does that mean? And I think what we're seeing is some fragmentation really happened in a big way as me as a media planner and advertiser trying to figure out how do I spend my money across all of these valuable retailers. I think the industry has matured to a point where now all of a sudden you can buy this data on the Open Exchange or the Open Web through programmatic means. So you can actually scale, you can optimize across retailers. It's a lot more simplification, I think, is a big theme you're going to see here. It's a lot easier to buy across the retail media networks. But I think now they're figuring out again, how do they become that full funnel ecosystem and really compete against the other ecosystem platforms like the Amazons, the Google, and position themselves no longer as a data source and attached purely to a retailer, but more as a big marketing ecosystem.
- [05:41]
Kameka McCoy
You're hitting on something that I want to lean further into. Right. We had Patricia Corsi, chief growth officer of Kimberly Clark, on our show yesterday. And one of the things that you kind of mentioned or flicked at is this idea of like, you know, part of can is about business meetings and getting in front of your partners and like, for lack of a better way of saying it, putting feet to the fire. Right. You've got some face to face time. So you as chief media officer here now, right, you're working with these partners, you're planning these media buys and whatnot. But talk to me a little bit about, you know, what are the conversations that you're hoping to have while you're on the ground and like, how much of that is holding feet to the fire of like, am I getting what I need on my clients, getting what I need in retail media?
- [06:20]
Peggy McCann
Yeah. And it's funny, when you call feet to the fire, I think about that in a few different ways. So one of them truly is measurement and attribution. And we do need help from the retailer networks to help us truly understand what is that incremental lift that we're getting in new customers or are we getting more out of an existing customer? We need help in measuring that. Absolutely. For sure. When I also think about holding feet to the fire, I think about the fact that we're in a really, really challenging time for marketers. And not only do we have inflation, we're facing tariffs. So more than ever, marketers are going to need the advertising partners to truly help with things like flexibility as they have to hold back budgets or they may have to pull back budgets, depending on if a tariff comes in that truly affects the entire marketing ecosystem for a brand, they may have to pull back that speed. And I think retail media networks of most are probably the Most uniquely positioned to help a brand navigate that. And so it's a different way to think about Feet to the Fire, but I think it's more a point in time where the retail media networks can act as a partner for the brands and really help them navigate this situation. I think we're seeing some do it really well in a more interesting way. Like Walmart, for example, is building curated baskets. So if you are a family or a shopper who seeks value, you can actually get a curated basket of groceries that actually meets your budgetary needs. It's like those are ways that, that we can lean in on retail media networks to add that value that our brands so desperately need to deliver to their customers to keep them coming and coming back.
- [08:01]
Kameka McCoy
Yeah, yeah. Talk to me a little about what these conversations look like for, for you. Do we have one on one meetings planned? Are there team meetings planned? They've got plenty of panels to attend. How is this shaping up for you?
- [08:13]
Peggy McCann
I'm, I've actually scheduled a number of one on one meetings just because I do want to honestly tailor some of the conversations to the unique needs of my clients. I've got CPG clients, you know, I have financial services clients. So I want to make sure that we're having a little bit more of a tailored conversation because those needs can look very different for each of our brands.
- [08:34]
Kameka McCoy
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Double click into that for me. While we're back at home and we're planning our, you know, our trip here to Cannes and whatnot. What were some of the concerns, thoughts, critiques that you heard from clients that you're now bringing to the table here?
- [08:45]
Peggy McCann
I will say one of the things that we have been pushing for a lot more is getting a little bit more of that off site presence. So how can we start to use some of that data and push that out into beyond the retailers websites in store is great. We're looking into more in store and how do we start using the screens? We've been working with Instacart actually on their caper carts. I don't know if you're familiar with those, but they're a really smart cart that if you're in the store, it's actually tracking the products that you put into the cart. It's tracking the total price tag of your cart. It's actually giving loyalty discounts too. So it's another way for us to really be able to lean in on Instacart to help bring some utility to our, our brand's customers. But we want to go even beyond the store. And we need to start to really activate on the. The data in a way that we can push out and really scale in a much more meaningful way. And we are seeing some of the retail networks doing that. You're just. Recently, I think it was Dick's Sporting Goods announced a partnership with Roku. And, you know, it's a really valuable audience. And to be able to scale that out into CTV is, I think, a really powerful way to use that data.
- [09:59]
Kameka McCoy
And I'm gonna ask the same question, but on the flip side. Right. Cause I'm sure as you're setting up these meetings, your inbox is full of pitches and things like that. So what has that looked like? What are their talking points that you're interested in kind of hearing about and.
- [10:11]
Peggy McCann
Talking through A lot of it is honestly the bigger ad placements. So really moving into what I mentioned before, that kind of more sophisticated ad units and. And they're really pushing that notion of discovery and, you know, sponsored ads, you know, big more themed ads around certain times of the year. So I'm seeing that is getting pushed in a pretty deep way, which is interesting because some of my CPG clients, they may only have one or two brands, so there's not really a big story we can create around a themed experience. So one of the things we did push one of the retail partners is how do you help us overcome that? And actually, one came back with a really interesting solution and actually partnered us up with a very large personal product CPG brand. And we created a theme ad around summer occasions. We brought things like salsa to the table. They brought things like skincare, like sunscreen, paper plates, things like that. So we can actually create a whole thematic by building a partnership ecosystem of brands that didn't have competitive brands within the portfolio we complemented. And so that was actually a really good value that with a little push, we're able to get a retail network to come back and bring us an idea around that. And it was. It was probably one of the highest, highest ROI programs we ran.
- [11:34]
Kameka McCoy
Nice. I want to talk a little bit about, I guess, how long does this take to play out? Right. You have the conversation here at Can. When do you expect for some of these, like, conversations to play out?
- [11:46]
Peggy McCann
I would say, honestly, probably in the next three to six months. I have found the retail media networks to be really responsive. I'm finding that they're listening, taking in and learning and redirecting some of their operations to help support. So again, that themed ad I talked about, I think we pushed that and probably within two months we had a proposal back with a very specific partner who they had already spoken with and were ready to go.
- [12:12]
Kameka McCoy
Nice. Move fast for the transaction deal because like one of the, one of the talking points about can, right. Is like, is this a place to like do business, sign deals? Right. Or is it more so like networking? Mixture of the two. How are you approaching this? Is there an expectation to strike deals while we're here on the ground or is there an expectation to this will play out to your point in the three to six months?
- [12:32]
Peggy McCann
Yeah, I wouldn't strike a deal here, but certainly networking, absolutely. I do want to hear some of the stories that they're telling and, you know, what's new, what are they bringing new to the table. But I do want to have an honest conversation about, you know, the challenges my clients are facing and make sure they hear that and, you know, set some of the expectations of what we need and what we need to see. And, and I'm finding a very open ear across the board from them. But I think this is a good chance for a two way street, not just to hear what their story is, but for them to also understand what the true needs are for our clients. We're on the ground with the clients. We see what's happening in their business.
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Kameka McCoy
Yeah.
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Peggy McCann
And we're feeling it. You know, we're feeling the impact of the economy and things like big ad units and brand storytelling are absolutely critical to moving a client's needle. But it's not the only part of the story and we want to make sure that the partners at the retail media networks hear that from us.
- [13:31]
Kameka McCoy
That actually brings up a really good point. So in this space, one of the things that I've covered is like jbps, right. The joint business planning, the negotiation process, for all intents and purposes. I think one of the conversations that I'm hearing more and more about is flexibility. Is that also part of the conversation while you're here at can, I think we're reminded you've got tariffs that have been up and down, back and forth and things like that. So, you know, how much are you hoping to have a conversation about flexibility in the negotiation process and opening that up?
- [14:01]
Peggy McCann
Yeah, honestly, it's going to be a huge part of. It's my actual number one objective, to tell you the truth. So when I was thinking about this conversation, I was mapping down what do I think the retail media networks are going to talk about, and I discovered that I think the top three or four things they're Going to talk about. Yeah, don't hit the number one thing I'm going to talk about. And. But that's okay, right? That's part of why we're here in the conversations. And again, that flexibility from both a being able to optimize across retail media networks is, I think, critical. Again, I think a lot of the retail media networks are starting to open up their data into the open web and that's going to help with that flexibility. Because about a year ago I remember going into annual planning for a CPG brand and thinking, this is crazy because I don't know which of the retail media networks I should pick. I've got a national food brand. Not all of the retailers are national.
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Kameka McCoy
Right.
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Peggy McCann
So how do I piece them together in a way that is cost effective but also helps meet the needs of the clients? Having the flexibility to optimize in a programmatic way is really helping us quite a bit. But the other flexibility again is I do have a lot of clients who are holding back their budgets right now and they really are not sure what's going to happen. They need to be able to move in like 24 to 48 hours. So we're setting things up. And that's another conversation. I need to manage those sort of expectations with the retail media networks of we're going to need a little flexibility right now and really help us pivot when a client's facing a lot of pressure from tariffs and the customers are facing a lot of pressure from inflation. We might have to change the messaging, we might have to change the media placement itself, even the audience. We might have to go after either a value seeking audience or for an audience that has a little bit more financial flexibility. So we're gonna have to pivot very quickly over these next few months and we need our partners to be there with us on that journey.
- [16:05]
Kameka McCoy
Another interesting thing about CAN is you're coming in with these questions from clients and working on behalf of your clients with economic uncertainty, which I feel like has been haunting us for the past couple of years now, now even more so than it has in the past. So the question then becomes, I'm here with all this uncertainty, having a conversation with my retail media network partner or potential partner. There's a beautiful background in the back. We're having rose hors d' oeuvres, things like this, right. Do those things as a media planner, kind of, what does that do for you? Like, does it bring you closer into the fold? Does it pique your interest? Or is it like I've Got to get down to business.
- [16:40]
Peggy McCann
Probably a little both. I mean it is, it is nice to honestly step out of the sort of the trenches, if you will. And that's a good, you know, you're sort of in, you get in it every day and you really do focus so much on the client's challenges and how do we solve. And this is an opportunity to kind of lift your head up for a few days and say let's really think about a little bit more future forward. And while we still have to navigate today, we should be looking forward to tomorrow. So something like this does help you sort of cleanse your brain for a few days and absorb and learn something new and really think about how that can help you move forward. So again, thinking about those, those more sophisticated ad units and how do we use that to help shoppers discover and not necessarily focus about who's in market today and who's in, has intent already and who are we going to convert. And it's more how can we actually help people discover the brand, Talk to them in a way that kind of meets their vibe. Because once you do that, they're coming, buying even if they weren't in market. And so that's really how you go get incremental customers. So you're bringing in customers versus sort of harnessing what's already in market. So weeks like this actually help you kind of stop and think about how are we building the business for the future. While of course we absolutely still have to navigate the challenges we're facing today.
- [18:07]
Kameka McCoy
That makes a lot of sense. And to the point about kind of some of the pop up activations and things like that that they've been doing kind of. Do you expect that these two get bigger? I know this is your first year at Cannes. Historically we've heard about museums, Ferris wheels, entire beaches that we've got taken over by platforms. Do you expect, you know, that to be the next step for retailers as they get bigger and take in more ad dollars?
- [18:31]
Peggy McCann
I actually, I don't know if the pop ups will get bigger. But I, but I. What I would predict and would be interesting is if they start to show more of the partnerships and they start to, then it's no longer a retailer, but it's a retailer plus one or two of their bigger partners that either are brand partners or fellow media partners that are helping them scale their inventory. I think that like the whole partnership ecosystem I think is kind of the next place for retail media networks. And I think they're doing great on their own. But I think if they partner together, I think you're going to see bigger things happen.
- [19:04]
Kameka McCoy
Gotcha. Last question for you. And I'm saving. Save the fun one for the. For the last. We're on day two of Cannes, but what else do you have planned for the rest of your time here?
- [19:12]
Peggy McCann
Well, I am actually. I'm going to attend a few panels because I do want to actually just learn from other marketers. A few CMO panels I'm really excited to see. I'm actually speaking on a panel myself.
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Kameka McCoy
Oh, nice.
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Peggy McCann
I spoke on a panel yesterday about consumer fragmentation, which is a different kind of fragmentation than what we're seeing in the retail media network. This is more the fragmentation that consumers are almost creating themselves based on all of the content they have available and what they're really consuming across their devices. So that was exciting to hear from a number of CEOs from other media agencies and how they're tackling it. We're a little bit more unique because we are a full service agency, and so we really are able to bring the power of media and creative together to sort of offset that fragmentation.
- [19:58]
Kameka McCoy
Are you going to get any time to rest and relax and recoup before heading back into the. To take everything you've learned here back home?
- [20:05]
Peggy McCann
Yeah, I'll probably have a day before we leave. I think we'll probably spend a little bit of time on the beach bumping into some people that I haven't seen in years. I think that's one thing I'm really looking forward to here, is seeing people that I don't get to see all the time. I lived in New York for a while. Now I'm in Austin, Texas. So it takes having to come to Cannes to see some people, but I very much look forward to that.
- [20:30]
Kameka McCoy
Fantastic. Well, Peggy, thank you so much for making time with us in the DJ podcast. We so appreciate it. It was a pleasure having you.
- [20:35]
Peggy McCann
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
- [20:42]
Kameka McCoy
Well, that brings us to the end of this episode of the Digiday podcast. Thank you to everyone for listening. And please don't forget to share this episode with someone who you think would enjoy it. You can even rate us and leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us.