The Digiday Podcast Episode Summary

Title: How AI rewrites search for publishers
Date: September 9, 2025
Host(s): Kamiko McCoy, Tim Peterson
Guests: Jessica Davies (Senior Media Editor), Sarah Guioni (Senior Media Reporter)

Overview

This episode of The Digiday Podcast delves into how artificial intelligence is reshaping the search landscape for publishers, particularly focusing on the impact of Google’s AI advancements (like AI Overviews and Gemini) and the broader regulatory pressures on Google. The conversation evolves from recent antitrust outcomes for Google, shifts in publisher referral traffic, emerging compensation models for content, and publishers’ evolving survival strategies in a volatile digital ecosystem.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Google’s Antitrust Troubles and Remedies

• Recap of Legal Actions

  • Google faces mounting legal actions in both the U.S. and internationally, with fresh lawsuits and major fines related to its monopoly in search and ad tech.
  • [01:27] "The biggest story this past week…we finally got the remedies in the Google search antitrust trial." — Tim Peterson

• Disappointment in Remedies

  • Remedies imposed were considered weak by the industry: No divestiture of Chrome or ad tech business, just partial data sharing and limits on exclusive search deals.
  • [02:26] "Instead Google just has to share some search data, not all search data. That’s an important caveat here." — Tim Peterson
  • [03:13] "This felt like…not quite a slap on the wrist per se, but not much better than a slap on the wrist for a monopoly." — Kamiko McCoy

• Implications for Publisher Strategy

  • Light remedies set a weak precedent for subsequent cases, dampening expectations for stronger interventions in the looming ad tech trial.
  • [04:56] "The search trial was seen as the big opportunity to change things up…so because the remedies were relatively weak, it’s like really taking the wind out of the sails." — Tim Peterson

2. Emergence of AI-Driven Search Competition

• New Challengers

  • Apple's rumored AI-powered search engine, OpenAI, and Perplexity create potential competition, though Google’s dominance remains largely unthreatened.
  • [08:15] "Apple’s planning an AI power search engine. And so that would create competition for Perplexity, for OpenAI…potentially for Google too." — Tim Peterson

• Industry Skepticism

  • Real competition for Google is still lacking, and smaller players face steep challenges.
  • [09:19] "If there’s competition, monopoly maybe…a smaller player space here." — Kamiko McCoy

• Financial Stakes

  • Apple’s move could be defensive—adjusting to receive less from Google if exclusive deals fade, while seeking new AI-powered revenue streams.
  • [10:37] "If Google can’t be the exclusive search engine then…why would it pay as much for less in return…$20 billion a year." — Tim Peterson

3. UK Investigation Expands to AI

• Publishers Push for AI Inclusion

  • UK publishers urge regulators to fold Google’s Gemini AI into their search abuse probe, foreseeing Gemini’s importance as a key referral and content platform.
  • [13:00] "A group of publishers is now calling for the CMA to include Gemini…which makes a fair amount of sense because…these AI chatbots do seem like the new search engines." — Tim Peterson

• Potential for Compensation

  • Broader investigations could mandate payments for publisher content surfaced in both traditional search and AI assistants.
  • [13:40] "Depending on what the investigation leads to, it could end up with the CMA requiring Google to have to pay publishers…that would include search, that would also then include Gemini." — Tim Peterson

4. The Real Impact of AI on Publisher Traffic

4.1 Murkiness and Volatility in Traffic Data

• Opaqueness from Google

  • Google’s lack of transparency regarding traffic and citations in AI Overviews leaves publishers in the dark.
  • [17:19] "Google’s been a little bit opaque in how it decides, you know, what gets cited and what it's really meaning." — Jessica Davies

• Data Conflicts and Margins of Error

  • Third-party reports (e.g., Digital Content Next) show median year-over-year declines in referred traffic from Google Search of 7% for news and 10% overall, but publishers debate what changes are truly attributable to AI.

  • [19:52] "In reading the stats from Digital Content Next…if it’s a single digit decline, that’s kind of the margin of error." — Tim Peterson

  • [21:24] "The core update Google had made…can be more influential in some ways than what they’ve seen at least with AI overviews." — Sarah Guioni

  • [23:07] "It’s really tricky still to get that clarity and transparency on the data and the measurement." — Jessica Davies

4.2 Shifts in Publisher Strategies

• From SEO Gaming to Quality and Brand

  • Publishers are shifting away from optimizing solely for SEO, and instead double-down on quality journalism and direct reader relationships.
  • [27:00] "No more SEO gaming. Let’s focus on direct connections and that kind of thing. And visibility. Brand visibility." — Jessica Davies

• Diversifying Referral Sources

  • Increased focus on leveraging communities (Reddit, influencers/creators) and even seeing a surprising uptick in Facebook referral traffic, though publishers remain wary.
  • [31:25] "They’re looking to places like Reddit for community engagement…and even Facebook, which is kind of wild…" — Sarah Guioni

4.3 Existential Questions and Survival

• Acceptance of Lower Search Traffic

  • Some publishers accept they’ll never return to previous traffic highs, instead pivoting to alternative business models and platforms.
  • [28:29] "It almost feels like some publishers have accepted…they’re never going to see the same traffic that they’ve seen in the past." — Sarah Guioni

• ‘Survival of the Fittest’

  • While news content seems more insulated, lifestyle and recipe sites may be at greater risk and need to adapt.
  • [37:32] "I think it is going to be a bit of a survival of the fittest, which is sad, but really looks like the future." — Sarah Guioni

5. AI Content Licensing and Compensation Models

5.1 New Usage-Based Payment Models

• From Lump Sums to Pay-per-Use

  • Early AI licensing deals were flat-fee or broad agreements; the new wave is pay-per-call or pay-per-query, tying publisher compensation to specific uses of their content by AI.
  • [43:32] "Those early deals were a bridge to get us to where we’re coming to now…It’s not a sustainable long term revenue share model or model for Internet usage in the age of AI at all." — Sarah Guioni

• Perplexity’s "Comet Plus" Program

  • Offers publishers a slice of subscription revenue based on citations or traffic generated via their new browser, though execs are unclear on the details and potential value.
  • [44:30] "Is this Perplexity spearheading a new model or…scrambling to cozy up to publishers?" — Tim Peterson
  • [47:17] "The real question that execs had to me was…like, how are we getting paid? Like, is human traffic, you know, weighed more than bot traffic?" — Sarah Guioni

• Tech Standards and Competition

  • Multiple companies (Cloudflare, Tollbit) and the IAB Tech Lab are exploring or piloting similar compensation frameworks; competition may help publishers get better terms.
  • [48:28] "The IAB Tech Lab favored one I think is the paper query…you’re getting paid every time a user searches something and your content gets pulled into that summary or citation." — Jessica Davies

5.2 Hope and Future Directions

• Shifting Compensation and Publisher Voice
  • Publishers are pushing for a “seat at the table” in the next iteration of web compensation—and though challenges remain, there’s hope for more sustainable economics.
  • [49:34] "Although there’s a lot of murkiness to be dealt with…publishers have a seat at the table and that’s all we can ask for right now." — Kamiko McCoy

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:26] “Instead Google just has to share some search data, not all search data. So that’s an important caveat here.” — Tim Peterson
• [08:46] “Google still at the end of the day obviously…has…if there’s competition, monopoly maybe…maybe a smaller player space here to that case.” — Kamiko McCoy
• [13:40] “Depending on what the investigation leads to, it could end up with the CMA requiring Google to have to pay publishers for content that appears on its platforms. And that would include search, that would also then include Gemini.” — Tim Peterson
• [17:19] “It's never a dull day…volatile referral traffic, it's kind of become the norm…But the AI stuff I think definitely adds a new layer onto that. And yeah, it seems like clicks are drying up. There's no denying it.” — Jessica Davies
• [27:00] “No more SEO gaming. Let’s focus on direct connections and that kind of thing. And visibility. Brand visibility seems to be something that people talk a lot about.” — Jessica Davies
• [28:29] "It almost feels like some publishers have accepted the fact that they're never going to see the same traffic that they've seen in the past. Ever since AI overviews has really…hit." — Sarah Guioni
• [37:32] “I think it is going to be a bit of a survival of the fittest, which is sad, but really looks like the future.” — Sarah Guioni
• [43:32] “Those early [AI licensing] deals were really…and an exec told me this…a bridge to get us to where we’re coming to now.” — Sarah Guioni
• [49:34] “Although there's a lot of murkiness to be dealt with…publishers have a seat at the table, and that's all we can ask for right now.” — Kamiko McCoy

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Antitrust outcomes for Google, industry reaction: 00:35–06:01
• Apple's AI search ambitions & competitive landscape: 08:13–12:35
• UK regulator expands probe to Gemini AI: 13:00–16:04
• Publisher conversation: Search traffic volatility & AI impact: 16:25–18:30
• Difficulty of measuring AI impact and traffic declines: 19:52–24:54
• Strategy pivot: From SEO to brand, social, and quality: 26:00–29:52
• Anecdote: Facebook’s unexpected return as a referral source: 31:25–32:34
• Survival of the fittest & existential threats to publishers: 36:45–38:50
• New licensing models: Usage-based, pay-per-query, & Perplexity’s offer: 43:32–49:34

Conclusion

The landscape for publishers is rapidly changing as AI transforms how search engines deliver and attribute content. While regulators chip away at Google’s dominance, nothing seismic has shifted yet. Publishers face mounting uncertainty, murky data, and declining search traffic—especially outside of core news. Hope lies in evolving compensation models (usage-based licensing, for example), renewed focus on quality and direct engagement, and a more vocal seat at the AI table, though only time will tell which publishers best adapt to this new era of search and content discovery.