How brand-creator deal dynamics need to evolve

Summary

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The Digiday Podcast — "How brand-creator deal dynamics need to evolve"

Air date: October 21, 2025
Guests: David Hunsinger (Agent at Knight, representing creators such as Kai Cenat, Hasan Piker, Salma & Colby)
Hosts: Kumiko Mokoi (Senior Marketing Reporter, Digiday) and Tim Peterson (Executive Editor, Video & Audio, Digiday Media)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolving relationship between brands and creators in the context of influencer marketing’s explosive growth. With brands experimenting between in-housing influencer partnerships and using agencies as intermediaries, the hosts dissect the implications for creators and the broader creator economy, featuring expert perspective from talent agent David Hunsinger. The episode also touches on related ad tech and platform issues — from AI-driven shifts in advertising to the latest platform moves (ADCP, Pinterest’s AI filters, Meta dropping its brand suitability accreditation) — before the central conversation on brand-creator deal dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Juicy Scoops: Industry News and Context (03:49–21:07)

• ADCP (Ad Context Protocol): New Ad Tech Standard

  • What is it?
    • A new protocol meant to enable AI agents to communicate within ad tech systems (DSPs, SSPs, ad exchanges), potentially automating deals that humans now handle (04:49–08:01).
  • Key concerns:
    • Job automation, particularly for junior roles

      "Who gets to keep their jobs in this situation?" — Kumiko Mokoi (08:01) "The people who already have the higher level jobs." — Tim Peterson (08:13)

    • Adoption and standardization issues; major players (Amazon, Google, Trade Desk) not yet signed on (09:22–11:52)

      “If you don't have universal support, you don't have a standard.” — Tim Peterson (09:53)

• Pinterest's "AI Free Feed" Filter

  • Efforts to let users hide AI-generated content, though the filter is actually ‘AI-light’ rather than truly AI-free. (11:52–16:31)
  • User disengagement prompts platforms to give some control back; rise of “hashtag no AI” as a badge of authenticity (14:24–16:08)

    “I think you'll see the same thing of like, hashtag no AI cropping up here.” — Kumiko Mokoi (15:44)

• Meta Abandons MRC Accreditation for Brand Suitability

  • Meta opts out of the Media Rating Council's brand suitability audit, reflecting platform resistance to first-party audits and raising questions about future standards (16:32–20:15)

    "I would still think advertisers would want some form of audit. ... First party audit I would think would still be preferable to no audit." — Tim Peterson (18:33)

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2. Featured Conversation: Brands, Creators & New Deal Dynamics (21:25–52:33)

The In-housing Debate and Creator Perspective

• Brands Bringing Creator Work In-house
  • Brands like Blue Apron are hiring internal managers to oversee large creator rosters, raising questions about the value of agencies and directness in creative collaboration (22:11–23:05).
  • Creator POV:
    • Most macro-level creators aren’t directly involved in the negotiation phase; this is typically handled by agents or managers (23:05).
    • Creators value working closer to brands for greater message alignment and authenticity. Direct relationships often produce better campaign outcomes (23:05–25:25).

      "The closer that a creator can get to the raw brand ... the better it's going to manifest." — David Hunsinger (23:05)

When Does Brand-Direct Engagement Happen?

• For smaller or up-and-coming creators, direct interaction is more common, often due to lacking representation.
• As creators grow, time constraints push them to rely on reps; personal calls with brands then become rare, except for major or long-term deals (25:26–27:09).

Deal Structure: Rates, Timelines, Rights

• Changing who negotiates (agency vs. brand) doesn’t fundamentally alter how terms like timelines or syndication rights are hammered out (27:09–28:37).
• Direct-to-brand deals can speed up and clarify negotiations, as there’s "no game of telephone" across intermediaries (27:33).

Agency vs. Brand-Direct: What Dominates?

• For day-to-day YouTube integrations, agencies still handle the majority, thanks to economies of scale and efficiency in bulk buying inventory.

  • Big, prestigious brands are more likely to go direct for specialized, high-profile campaigns (28:51–30:13).

• Platform Differences

  • Short-form (TikTok, Instagram) is even more agency-driven than long-form (YouTube) content (30:13–31:40).

Viewing Creators as Media Channels

• Brands are increasingly treating creators as media properties, seeking video “inventory” similar to TV or streaming ad deals (31:40–33:09).
• Creators with repeatable shows/formats are uniquely positioned to offer "upfronts" — pre-sold inventory packaged for sponsors (33:09–34:37).

  • "Upfronts would be a great holy grail to try to bake into the creator economy." — David Hunsinger (33:09)

• Some creators already use quarterly content maps to enable more strategic, outbound sales and targeted partnerships (33:09–35:03).

Syndication, Cross-Posting, and Business Model Maturation

• Syndication is now the term of art, reflecting creators’ maturation as businesses and borrowing from TV industry lingo (39:37–42:00).
  • Contracts now increasingly include syndication/cross-posting and usage rights as negotiable, distinct (and billable) items (39:54–43:34).

    “All of those are material deal points that you should be negotiating.” — David Hunsinger (43:34)

• Creators are urged to view themselves as media companies, regardless of team size (38:00–39:37).

Dynamic Brand Placement — The Next Disruption

• YouTube’s Dynamic Brand Insertion (launching next year):
  • Creators can swap out baked-in sponsorship reads, enabling content to be re-sold or "windowed" over time (45:34–47:26).
  • Opportunity to monetize back catalogs; introduces new pricing models based on how long a brand gets exclusivity (47:26–49:30).

    "The back catalog is going to open up a lot of interesting opportunity." — David Hunsinger (49:30)

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3. Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

On Industry Shifts

“If you don't have universal support, you don't have a standard.”
— Tim Peterson (09:53)

“The brand obviously has more control over that if you're talking directly ... there's no game of telephone, you're going straight to the store.”
— David Hunsinger (27:33)

On Authenticity and Creator Strategy

“Everybody's tired of talking about authenticity ... but it's true.”
— David Hunsinger (36:14)

“They should see themselves as media companies. Like they should see themselves as platforms ... at the end game, that's the perspective that's healthy for them to have.”
— David Hunsinger (38:00)

“Creators as effectively outsourced marketing for upstart companies or newer companies looking for retail distribution ... a creator as an executive, a creator as a content engine in-house at brands.”
— David Hunsinger (50:42)

On Upcoming Disruption

“I think it [dynamic brand placements] will be disruptive. I think it opens up a ton of different avenues for the creator on how they interact with brands.”
— David Hunsinger (47:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Juicy Scoops (Industry news): 03:49–21:07

  • ADCP explained: 04:44–11:52
  • Pinterest’s AI filter: 11:52–16:31
  • Meta & MRC: 16:31–20:26

• Main Interview with David Hunsinger:

  • Introduction and context: 21:25–23:05
  • Creator perspective on in-housing vs. agency: 23:05–25:25
  • Impact by creator size and rep: 25:26–27:09
  • Deal mechanics: 27:09–28:51
  • Agency vs. brand-direct prevalence: 28:51–30:13
  • Platform differences: 30:13–31:40
  • Creators as media channels: 31:40–38:00
  • Syndication/cross-posting: 39:37–43:34
  • YouTube dynamic brand insertion: 45:34–50:24
  • Future trends: 50:42–52:33

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Concluding Insights

• The Creator Economy is Professionalizing:
  • The lines are blurring between creators, traditional media, and agencies; creators are increasingly encouraged to see themselves as full-fledged media companies.
• Authenticity Still Rules:
  • The more direct and authentic the connection between creator and brand, the more successful the campaigns — but scale demands efficiency, keeping agencies relevant.
• Upcoming Disruptions:
  • Dynamic insertion on YouTube and new ad tech standards like ADCP are set to reshape the landscape, creating new opportunity for both brands and creators — but also introducing more complex negotiations and workflow considerations.
• Critical Future Trend:
  • Outsourced creator-driven marketing for emerging brands and companies is poised to become a significant growth vector, possibly even supplanting traditional influencer-brand models.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
This episode provides a rich, practical look at how creator-brand dealmaking is changing, what’s driving those changes, and how both creators and agencies can adapt for the future. It’s a must-listen for anyone navigating the creator economy, advertising, or brand marketing spaces.

Transcript

[David Hunsinger]

Hello.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Hello and welcome to the Digiday podcast, a show about the business of media and marketing. I'm Kumiko Mokoi, senior marketing reporter at digidek.

[Tim Peterson]

And I'm Tim Peterson, executive editor of video and audio Digiday Media. How are you doing, Kimiko? Last week you were very excited because you were going up to Chicago from Atlanta to see the Brandi and Monica tour, the, I think the opening show. And then I saw some headlines yesterday that the show maybe didn't go as you might have hoped.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah, I, I was one of the people that were in the audience when Brandy, our beloved R and B queen, did an about face on stage, walk off to like mid song, mid performance, walked off stage and caused a big kerbawful is the best way I can describe this. Yeah, she. The lights came on and that was the end of. That was the end of that. So after 20 plus years of waiting for the boy's mind to be performed live by Mondi. By Mondi. By Monica and Brandy, otherwise known as Mondi.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I was gonna say, is that like there, there's an actual term for like the Brangelina type thing? I don't know what it is, but like, is that. Do you all call them Mandy?

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Absolutely not.

[Tim Peterson]

Mandy.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Absolutely not. And I think that would send Brandy even to even more of a spiral for that to be. To be done. But yeah, that was something. So that was how my weekend went. Devastating. So hoping somebody posted on Social so that I can watch the reunion and live just a little bit.

[Tim Peterson]

Well, if there's any solace, I imagine all the privacy sandbox champions were probably feeling a lot like you this weekend with the news on Friday as reported by Adweek, that Google Shocker has decided, oh, actually privacy sandbox, we're going to kind of just eliminate that, you know, because we decided not to get rid of the third party cookie. I mean, this is the thing everyone saw coming. But I feel like Google and some others were still trying to make the case back in the spring of like, we're going to keep it going with privacy sandbox, even though many people are just like, no, you're not, because it hasn't gone anywhere. And now they've decided, yeah, actually the privacy sandbox didn't go anywhere. We're not going to do anything with it. So it's the Mondi fans and the privacy sandbox fans. Tough, tough weekend.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

I know. And a quick about face from. From both parties here.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. But things are looking up because we have a good episode this week. So we have David Hunsinger, who is an agent at the talent management firm Knight, which manages creators like Kai Sanat, Hasan Piker and Salmon Colby. So you and I both spoke with David to talk about this trend. Well, you've been reported on this trend in terms of, like, there have been some divergences in terms of how brands are working with creators or to what extent brands are working with CREAT directly as opposed to going through influencer agencies.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah, we actually covered a lot with David, which I think was probably a really good time to kind of check in on this conversation. Right. Because the influencer creator economy, like, it's really exploding. On the one hand, you've got like these conversations with, for example, Blue Apron, the story I did a while ago, where they decided to in house their influencer marketing strategy and whatnot. And then on the other hand, you've got creators showing up in bigger ways, becoming like kind of the leading faces for brands in terms of like, sitcom comment and things like this. So sitcom comments and things like this. Excuse me. So, yeah, David tackled a lot for us and we're incredibly grateful for that. So excited about that conversation. But first, we've got. I haven't said juicy scoops in a long time. But first we've got this week's juicy scoops.

[Tim Peterson]

We got plenty to talk about. We got a new acronym for the ad tech industry, which loves its acronyms. AD cp, which is a weird kind of acronym because technically the first letter is actually a word. We don't have to play acronym police on here. Then we got Pinterest is adding an AI free feed filter. I played around with this over the weekend. It's not entirely AI free, but AI light. Maybe we'll get to that. And then Meta has just decided Media Rating Council. It's nice that we got that accreditation for brand suitability, but actually you can keep it. We don't want it. We don't want to go through the audits. So we're going to surrender our MRC accreditation for brand suitability. Talk about ADCP first, because this is, in our little world, a very big deal.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

First, what does ADCP even stand for?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, so it stands for Ad Context Protocol, which is a collection of words that probably means absolutely nothing to most people. But for people who have been into like, the AI agents of it all may have a bit more meaning because there's another term called Model Context protocol, which we have an explainer story on digitized site written by senior media reporter Sarah Guaglioni. We also have an explainer video that I did that's on Digiday site and YouTube channel and LinkedIn account explaining what MCP is. It's basically just like a communication layer for AI agents. Because the thing with AI agents is they can't necessarily talk to each other so easy, let alone other tools, other APIs, things like that. And so AD CP. I hate this acronym already. I tell you, I hate this acronym already. The ADCP part of it. I did a like short form video for Digiday to promote Ronan Shields story on adcp. And having to remember to say ADCP as opposed to like Advertising Context Protocol or ACP is just a nightmare. It's messing me up. Kimiko, this is my brandy walking off stage moment. But what AD CP is, is it's supposed to create kind of like a infrastructure communication layer, a standard way for AI agents related to advertising to be able to talk to each other, as well as existing ad tech tools like DSPs, SSPs, ad exchanges. Okay, does that make any sense?

[Kumiko Mokoi]

A little bit. And I think the way, the way that I'm thinking about this when you said infrastructure is like, the way my brain kind of interpreted is like public infrastructure. If we're thinking about this in terms of like roads and buildings and things like this. Right. It's kind of like, and I think even Ronan described it this way in his piece, like pipelines for these entities to be able to talk to one another.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Basically like what this is going to enable is if you have a brand or an agency exec that wants to set up a programmatic guaranteed deal with a publisher right now, that agency exec would still have to call up someone or email someone at the publisher to say like, okay, we want to set up a PG deal. Here's how many impressions we're looking for. Here's the timeframe for this, here's what we're willing to pay. And the publisher would then need to negotiate their side of it. Now, each side could just have their AI agents. They could say to their agent, hey, I want to set up a PG deal with this publisher. Make it happen. And then that agent would talk to the publisher's AI agent and they would handle the negotiations based on all the data that they have on their respective sides in terms of what terms are amenable to. But when it comes to like, once that's agreed upon, once it comes to actually executing it, it reverts back to like, I guess what we would call traditional ad tech, where you would still have a DSP plugging into an SSP or an ad exchange to actually like bid on the impressions and handle that.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Two things that I immediately have antennas go up about if it's an AI agent talking to an AI agent instead of an email being sent to another email. Who gets to keep their jobs in this situation?

[Tim Peterson]

The people who already have the higher level jobs.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

So we are once again cutting into junior level people here because that's no longer being handled, you know, if it's being handled by like AI. That's kind of the question about that end. Oh, I hate that.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, it's, it's the decision makers, those get to be the ones. Because you're not going to need to have necessarily a bunch of humans crunching the numbers in spreadsheets to come up with what does our audience target, what's our price for that, how many impressions do we need? What are kind of like the details of this PG deal or PMP deal, let alone having to email or call the other side. And so it's going to be the people at the top who are again the decision makers. Those are going to be best positioned to keep their jobs. But as we've talked about before, when it comes to how AI is going to disrupt ad buying and selling, it creates opportunities for new outfits to launch because they're not going to need the headcount to be able to handle a lot of these things.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

That makes sense. Now the other antenna that goes up on the other side of my head here is about like opting in to this. Right. Because I imagine for like this again, for the roads or the pipes to work, you've got to have these companies opting in. So far it's been reported that scope 3, Yahoo, PubMatic are ad tech companies that are supporting this. Meanwhile, you've got Amazon, Google Index, Exchange, Baghdad and the Trade Desk which have not signed on. Which now becomes the question of standardization. If you don't have the big players involved.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. If you don't have universal support, you don't have a standard. And right now they have. Adcp does not have universal support. That could change, especially if there's a bit of a rally of people. We already know agencies, even publishers, are creating these AI agents to be able to handle transactions, to be able to handle a lot of their work. And so you would think they'd be looking for something like an ad CP to make sure everything can play nice. If they're going to be spending all this time and money building these AI agents, they want them to be effective as much as possible. I Mean, Publicis had its quarterly earnings results last week. It was a good quarter for them, but they also had a very good looking forecast. And a lot of that was because they're expecting the adoption of AI, the demand they're already getting from clients and from new client wins for them to be using AI, that's contributing to this rosier revenue forecast for them. But if these clients are going to Publicist, to be able to use Publicist's AI agents to handle a lot of their marketing and advertising, Publicis has to make sure those AI agents are going to be able to handle clients marketing advertising in full. And for that you're going to need something like an ad cp. Whether it's actually ad CP or something else, we'll see. Because for all we know, Google could be cooking up its own standard. Yeah, Amazon could be cooking up its own standard Trade Desk. We know Trade Desk likes to be able to create a lot of the infrastructure these days. Maybe Trade Desk has something in the wings, we don't know. Maybe we'll find out early next year at IAB's annual leadership meeting. But at some point you have to think something like ADCP needs to be introduced and widely adopted for the agentic era of advertising to actually take hold.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah. And I think while, while on one hand the AI agentic era is taking hold, it's on the back end. Because when you think on the front consumer facing end of things, it becomes a little bit more of a sticky point. Hence our news also about Pinterest adding or Pinterest news about Pinterest adding an AI free field, free feed filter, which AI free is. AI free even within itself is a little bit of a misnomer because it's more. Fewer AI generated content as opposed to no AI generated content.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, Pinterest isn't making any guarantees about like wiping all AI generated content from people's feeds because like they can't. I think, yeah, I don't know anyone who would be able to do that. Because even like yes, there are different like pieces of metadata. Like Adobe automatically adds metadata to images created with Photoshop using Firefly, it's generative AI engine. But if you take a screenshot of one of those images and you upload that, then it just looks to like Pinterest or whoever as just a normal ass screenshot. It's wiped of all that metadata. Still, I think it's good for platforms like Pinterest to be able to do this, to be able to say, Kimiko, do you want AI content in your Feed. Because if you do awesome, we will give it to you. Because Pinterest has become notorious AI slop. AI slop overrunning the platform. The thing with it is you really gotta hunt for, I don't know the last time you used Pinterest. I used Pinterest yesterday for the first time in six months at least. Every time I use Pinterest, I find I'm more confounded in terms of like how to use Pinterest, let alone why I would use Pinterest. But you have to like hunt through settings in order to find these filters. By default, AI generated content is enabled. So it's not Pinterest saying, hey, we're gonna, you're gonna have to go in and if you want AI generated content, let us know. It's if you don't want that, let us know. But it's only in certain content categories. There's not like a master across the board AI free filter option. It's do you want AI generated art content? Cool, toggle this button. Do you want AI generated beauty content? Cool, toggle this button. And again, it's not every single category.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

It was also reported that it hasn't rolled out to iOS yet. So if you're using the app, you don't have that option quite yet. There has been shouting into the void mostly about the rise of AI slop. Right. Because on the one hand you've got like meta vibes and then you've also got Sora content and whatnot. And I almost think of this as like a chicken and the egg situation where like, is it the platforms that are kind of pushing this, you know, that the AI slop forward and people are, you know, not wanting it? Or is there like actual engagement happening here? I think in Pinterest case there is a disengagement happening here, hence why you're seeing them kind of walk that back.

[Tim Peterson]

At this point a little bit. Yeah. I mean again, to the extent that they can walk it back entirely is a whole other thing. And it's also like toothpaste is out of the tube and people are getting pretty clever. Like I'm sure you've seen this in your TikTok feed of like, people are getting really smart by having like text stickers or other kinds of stickers on their videos that appear where the sorrow watermark. Cuz you know how like for Sora videos you get the watermark, but it's in different places and it just appears at different times. I've noticed videos that have stickers strategically placed and it's clearly an AI generated video. And so there's just, there's always going to be workarounds like that.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

And I think you're also going to see like, and maybe Pinterest kind of falls on this side of the coin. I've even heard it from like advertisers and marketers, brand marketers and whatnot, where it becomes like, remember the days of like the no. No filter, right? Hashtag no filter. I think you'll see the same thing of like, hashtag no AI cropping up here. And it seems like Pinterest is falling on the side of the camp with like, not no AI, but like, less.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Because it does feel like we've already moved into the SORA blowback era.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

I 100% agree. And then I think you made this point earlier of just like, how. How do you label that? Right. Because now you've got like a brand safety issue. Not necessarily with like, who's producing the content, but like how quickly it can be produced that you as a platform, it's just impossible to keep up with.

[David Hunsinger]

Mm.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Speaking of brand safety, so our last juicy scoop of the week. MET has decided actually MRC accreditation for brand suitability. We got it. We got it. Just this year. It was, it was nice to have. We don't need it. We're. We're good. We are good. Mrc. You could keep it.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah, they said. Thanks so much. I. I think if one more about phase happens between Brandy, Google and now Meta, I might actually combust. I think that'll be it for me. But it brings up like, I mean, they have still other MRC accreditations. Right? It's just the, it's just the brand C safety one. And I think what's interesting about that is like, you've got more of a tension rising when it comes to like brand safety and platforms because, like, when I saw that news immediately my brain goes back to the disbanding of Garm over brand safety. Right.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Yeah. And so Adweek was the one who reported on this and there's an interesting. So Meta, a Meta spokesperson gave Adweek a comment confirming the report and saying like, well, advertise, you know, this kind of thing is really important to advertisers, but what they want is a third party audit, not these first party audits that we would have had to agree to to maintain this MRC accreditation. And so that's why we're giving up, you know, these odds. We're deciding not to do these audits, which that is why Meta is Surrendering the brand safety, it's because it didn't want to go through the annual auditing process by the mrc. What I don't get about that statement or what doesn't, like check the logic box for me with that statement is I would still think advertisers would want some form of audit. Like, okay, maybe they would prefer a third party audit to a first party audit, but a first party audit I would think would still be preferable to no audit.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Right. I don't know. Like how concerned do you think advertisers are? Because you're not talking about like these big massive advertisers. A lot of Facebook and Meta. Excuse me, Facebook. There I go. A lot of Meta's ad business is built on these smaller players, you know what I mean?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. And I think that's always been the issue when it comes to things like brand safety. It's people, it's big brands running awareness campaigns who get spooked about these things. Whereas for like the direct Response advertisers or D2C brands, I feel like every time there would be some controversy where the brand advertisers pull their money, those smaller advertisers are probably rejoicing because that's less demand and therefore, you know, supply and demand prices are going to go down. So it's going to be better for the performance minded DTC marketers. So yeah, I think to your point, I imagine it's the traditional brand advertisers who care about the MRC accreditation in the first place. And I imagine that is medicine. Just like when we had the Facebook boycotts years ago with Garm issues. Because Meta also dragged its feet on Garm, if I'm not mistaken. I believe when KK was reporting here, she reported on that back in like 2021. Meta dragging its feet on some Garm stuff. But this is Meta basically saying, like, all right, big brands, if you don't like this, that's fine. We have so many advertisers that we're good. Also, we have so many people using our platforms that like, if you want to not advertise with us, that's entirely your decision. But then you got to answer to your shareholders.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Exactly, exactly. Well, the good thing is we didn't leave anybody on a wait and see moment like we normally do. I think we did a very good job of closing up those packages. So there's.

[Tim Peterson]

Although we do have a lot of wait and see in the featured segment this week because in that conversation we had with David Hunsinger, From Nice. We talk a lot about, you know, this idea of creators adopting like an upfront deal model and working with brands. We Talk about the YouTube Dynamic Brand Insertion development which will be rolling out next year and just how disruptive that seems like it's going to be to the creator economy with respect to YouTube. I'll have this week's Future of TV briefing digging more into that, but I thought that was a part of the conversation where I was just like, oh my. I think we say as much like could have gone for three hours just on that topic alone.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah, for sure. The big question is, you know, can influencers and creators become like a media channel within their own right? And really grateful for David for exploring that topic with us.

[Tim Peterson]

Hey, David, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

[David Hunsinger]

Thanks for having me.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, we're excited to have you because we want to get kind of the creator POV on a trend that Kimiko has been reporting on in terms of how brands are going about working with creators influencers. And so you're at night management, you represent creators like Hasan Piker, who has millions of subscribers on YouTube and Instagram and elsewhere. So that'd be, you know, you'd be a great one to kind of get the creator POV on how brands are going about working with creators or to what extent they're intermediaries. Kimiko, you've been doing the reporting on kind of this interesting divergence in strategy. Can you kind of recap for us like what it is that you've been reporting on here?

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah, absolutely. So take a shot every time you hear that the creator economy is booming. Right. But I think, that being said, there is an in housing playbook that has existed for creativity social. And now with the creator economy getting as big as it is, you're starting to see some of the early odds of brands wanting to in house that in the same way that they in house other things. The company that I talked to was Blue Apron that did this, that they had one person that's going to manage, I think over 100 influencers for them. Right. For talent management and things like this. And so the question, because I put it on LinkedIn, it became a big thing, right, where there was this once again bubbling up of the in housing debate. But I think we want to look at this from the perspective of creators since they kind of sit in the middle of all of this. So walk us through a little bit about where you're seeing this debate happen. Kind of creators high level thoughts about in housing versus working with an Agency.

[David Hunsinger]

I think, well, the first thing to talk about is like from a creator's perspective, they don't necessarily even see that, like that is on the business side, that's the rep side. That's either my job, an agent's job, a lawyer's job. That's usually who's interfacing with the buyer. There are some cases on an advanced campaign where a creator might be talking to them directly, but most of the time they're focusing on what the content they're delivering is or what the ad that they're delivering is in these scenarios. So they don't care as much where it's coming from. It's much more about what happens on the back end in the discussion of that deal. My opinion is that the closer that a creator can get to the raw brand itself and the raw creative of the brand from what they want to do with their marketing, the KPIs on the campaign, like how they're trying to roll that out, the better it's going to manifest. Because I think what creators care about, outside of having a good deal and making some money on these ads, is that they want the audience to feel as though they're not just being shoved and shoveled more advertising online. They want it to feel organic. They need it to feel like it's a part of their brand, that their brand can stand for what they're presenting. And the best way I think that you get that good creative is when you have the direct line to the marketing team who's actually executing that. Sometimes the problem that you see with an agency is, and it's not necessarily fault of their own, they're tasked with deploying a budget. They're tasked on doing that on a certain timeline. And so they have to spend a lot of money and a very short kind of time structure with a lot of creators. They don't have necessarily the bandwidth to get super creative. They're trying to make sure they're hitting their, their guide marks. The brand is much more interested, in my opinion, in hitting good marketing creative. And so I think that there's much more of an alignment between the brand and the creator than usually the agency. It's not to say there's no value in the agency. I think economies of scale are important. I think that the more that a brand is looking to spend, they almost need some of that support. But when you can go right to the source, the marketing is usually better, the storytelling is better, the messaging is better. I think fans agree with that online and you see like the Campaigns that are really successful. So in like a 20,000 foot view, I think that's kind of where I see things landing.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Absolutely.

[Tim Peterson]

With that idea of, you know, the creators being distanced and not interacting with the brand. Does that vary by size of creator? Because I feel like I've talked to a number of creators who are in the like 100,000 to 500,000 subscribe, YouTube Subscriber Range who talk about wanting to be working directly with the brand. And like their best brand deals are ones in which they are working directly with the brand. So is it across the board that creators are distanced from the brand?

[David Hunsinger]

I think that there's probably some scenarios, especially if you're like a newer creator, you're a smaller creator, you might not even have a rep yet, you're going to naturally have to be working with the brands. I do think though, at a certain threshold, when you start hitting a real kind of exit velocity on your channel or on your business, your time becomes a very, very valuable resource. So I think here at night, like a lot of our clients are kind of macro creators, the time that they have to dedicate to things outside of making their content or the big projects they're working on is super limited. So just by the virtue of trying to protect the time and the schedule that they have in place, they can't just kind of sit on the phone with brands all day and talk about creative. I think on certain deals, especially like I said, some of those bigger campaigns, longer term campaigns, it's important that the creator is interfacing with the brand and having some of that discussion. But I would say a lot of the YouTube inventory that you see go out. A lot of the ads that you see on YouTube, those aren't necessarily those really in depth kind of long term sponsorships or partnerships. Those are much more about hitting monthly KPIs on a brand's marketing calendar. And I don't think that those really need as much creator attention as the longer term, bigger vision ones.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

If you've got creators working more closely with the brand, right. Going through like an in house situation as opposed to going through an agency, what does that mean in terms of like rates, timelines, expectations and contract dealings? If you're going to work directly with the brand, do creators have more flexibility and as to when they can deliver, you know, that content? Are there higher or lower expectations in terms of like syndication usage rights and things like that?

[David Hunsinger]

I think in either scenario you're going to negotiate that if you're doing a job on the representation Side, you're working and negotiating that regardless. I think that having an agency doesn't stop the way that you're looking and approaching a deal. It's. They're going to just have to handle that with their client on their end. So if I'm negotiating usage, for example, I'm going to do that the same way that I would do direct with the brand. If I'm doing that with an agency, they then work that out. I think that agencies are pretty good with making sure that they work through those issues with their clients. I do think that the brand obviously has more control over that if you're talking directly because there's, you're just removing layers of communication. I think that's the same with the creative side. I think why it's always nice on the creative side to work directly with the brand is just simply because there's no game of telephone, you're going straight to the store. So when you're negotiating, if you're the person actually signing that contract and sending the check, you have the ability to say, okay, fine, I'm cool at this point versus I negotiate that with an agency, they then have to explain that, explain the thesis of why to a brand and then try to negotiate that almost with their clients.

[Tim Peterson]

So at this point, how often would you say you're dealing directly with the brand versus dealing with the agency? Is it 50, 50? Do you see it like 80, 21 way or the other?

[David Hunsinger]

It's a good question. I still think that agencies dominate a lot of the YouTube market in particular. I think with blue chip brands and some of those marquee brands in the space, you're likely cutting those bigger campaigns directly with the brand. But if we're talking about kind of day to day YouTube ad integrations, a lot of that's done through the Dr. Agencies. So they're again, economies of scale. When you're really trying to sell a lot of inventory and you have creators who on the low end, maybe they do a video a month. On the high end, some creators are doing four videos a month and they want everything sponsored. So the diaspora there of like, okay, well maybe you have 10 videos, that's one thing to get sponsored. When we're talking like, okay, 36 videos a year, that's a lot of inventory. So you know what I mean? Like that's, that's a, that's a heavy commitment. So having agencies kind of bulk buy that is, is a valuable resource. I think that a lot of that inventory still runs through the agencies for that reason specifically But I do think again, when we do talk about some of those more premium brands, you look at like the Nikes of the world, right? Like going through an agency on that is going to be less likely than working with the company directly on what that campaign means to them. Like how they want it to roll out, what the messaging is, how that relates directly to the creator's content, how it's authentic to the fans. Like all of that is important to the brand.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Building on that question, you kind of flick that. Like there's a difference obviously when it comes to like the type of creator or the type of brand that's looking to work with them. But I also am curious if like does it differ by platform? Like a YouTube creator versus somebody who's, you know, got their audience on Instagram and TikTok?

[David Hunsinger]

It's a good question. I, from my end and I think from a lot of night's end, we work with a lot of YouTube, YouTube creators, some, some on TikTok. I think shortform in particular, that is much more of an agency business. To my understanding. Some of the brands that you see on Shortform are direct with, with the brand partnership team on those respective brands. But I think a lot of that is bought through the agency side. You look at live streaming for example, a lot of that's bought through the agency side. So I would say like when you get to shorter form content, a lot of that is bulk packaged and kind of consolidated at agencies. YouTube is similar in a lot of ways. But when you're thinking again, like I keep going back to the difference between long partnership, long short term partnership. When you look at long partnership and you look at all the deliverables that you might bake into a deal, a lot of that will be in short form. A lot of that will come from YouTube as well if you're a YouTube creator. So it's just depends on kind of how you're framing the deal, what the deal is, what the intention is behind it. But I do think short form as a whole is very agency based and.

[Tim Peterson]

It also gets to like this interesting trend we've been seeing of influencers being seen by brands as like more like media than celebrities or like this interesting hybrid. For a long time brands didn't really know what to make of influencers, where to put them in a box. But Kimiko and others, you know, at Digiday have been reporting on how like some brands are looking at influencers as media is just kind of like, okay, where's the video inventory? We can source and we can kind of get into. And that makes me then wonder like how creators are similarly thinking of their inventory. I write a lot about traditional TV and streaming. And so there's this whole upfront market where every year everyone from Disney to NBCU to Netflix is doing deals with advertisers of, hey, let's do a year long deal, we'll reserve a set of inventory for you, sponsor our upcoming shows or episodes or what have you. Creators historically have been viewed as not having that, not necessarily knowing what video they're going to do two weeks from now, let alone a year from now. But I feel like increasingly, especially like those macro creators you're talking about have shows at this point, have formats, have a repeatable audience, they have a set cadence. Are your clients starting to think in terms of upfront deals when it comes to how they package up for brands?

[David Hunsinger]

I mean, upfronts would be a great holy grail to try to bake into the creator economy. I mean, that's how podcasts live and die, right? Like selling your inventory at the front of the year. So I think that there have been some moves in the space to try and simulate or replicate upfronts in that kind of way. I don't think it's kind of stuck yet, but it's a great question. I think it would help a lot of creators, especially the ones who have a ton of that inventory like we talked about. One thing that I personally will try to tell my clients is like we map out production calendars. So I have a whiteboard and I have a grid of just literally all of the videos that they can think that they will one day want to post over the coming quarter, couple quarters. So we try to at least map out, let's call it like three to six months of video concepts. And that's the basis by which we're trying to kind of think about working with brands. So as opposed to just saying like TBD concept, we'll figure it out one day, we try to be a little more strategic than that and like actually put points on the board as far as like what they think they're going to want to execute on. I think the brands do appreciate that. But it is tricky because as you mentioned, like, some creators don't know what they're going to post tomorrow. Some put this together and they're thinking way out, like, you know, six months down the line. So it's creator to creator. I think that the farther out a creator can think about things, the better it is for their business on the brand. Side, but easier said than done.

[Tim Peterson]

And when you have those creator who has that three to six month timeline set up in terms of this is my production schedule, to what extent are you taking those out to brands and to agencies as opposed to just allowing the inbound to kind of fill that inventory? Because then I'm also curious if you have a preference on whether you're first taking that out to agencies or to brands directly.

[David Hunsinger]

I would say I'm not going to speak for all of Knight, but I would say night is a very outbound business. Like I would say for my clients, 90% of the inventory, if not more, is based on outbound sales. So I personally don't live off of an inbox. I don't think many at night live off of an inbox. Some creators are great at that. Like I look at a lot of short form creators who are at the top of the game and a lot of that their inboxes are really robust. I think we are pretty aggressive about getting out in front of inventory as opposed to just being reactionary. So I think that's an intentional decision. But I think that the farther out you can get to your point, I think it is what you're hitting at is like you can have a little bit more of the strategy piece if you have a three month Runway, right? So as opposed to just saying like, oh, brand hit my inbox. Great, now I have a deal for this video. You can say what actually makes sense for this video. Like if the concept is going to be let's go to 711 and try candy. Having a VPN. Why does the VPN fit there versus, you know, calling an actual candy company or somebody in the like the snack space and seeing if there's a partnership there so you can get a little more creative, the farther out you get. I think that's important. I think to the point about authenticity. I think everybody's tired of talking about authenticity in space. It's exhausting, but it's true. And like it's important. Like that's, and that's why it continues to rise up as a, as a point on the brand side, I think fans and consumers are getting savvier and savvier about marketing. People are getting inundated with marketing constantly. So the more, the more real a brand can be with why they're integrated into something, why they make sense for a creator, the more that I think fans actually appreciate it. I mean my take is like a lot of creators have, you know, they're pretty protective of their community. They don't want to inundate their fans with ads. But at the same time, I think most, most fans who support a creator want to see them successful. Like they want to see them make money, they want to see them continue to grow. They want to see the creator that they've, you know, that they've really grown attached to have some success. So I don't think that they have this big aversion to ads. It just needs to be something that actually makes some sense. And that's going to, on the brand side, you also want something that's going to deliver results. And if you're, if you're pitching a square into a triangle, you're just not going to get the results in the back end and no one's going to be happy.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Not to get philosophical, but I'm curious how creators see themselves, right? Because on the one hand you've got not to get philosophical and I immediately get philosophical.

[David Hunsinger]

And here we go.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

On the one hand you've got this conversation, right, about in housing, about measurement, about upfronts and things like that where there's a very clear, clear through line of marketers seeing creators as media channels or teeing up to that. But I'm curious if creators also see themselves as media channels, right? Or are they kind of like community leaders type deal?

[David Hunsinger]

They should, I would take this over. They should see themselves as media companies. Like they should see themselves as platforms or media companies themselves. I think that that is, that is at, at the end game, kind of like the perspective that is healthy for them to have, especially as they continue to grow. Because really what you're doing is building, you're building ip, which is the creator. It's what they're developing, it's them themselves in most of these cases. And then when you look at how to exploit ip, there's a flywheel of a million things you can do. Like you can make products physically, you can develop merchandise, you can go and look at traditional entertainment with TV shows or film. You can look at events and live structures. You can also just do advertising, right? So with the creator at the centerpiece, you have to be a media company. Like that's kind of what you are when you're marketing and when you're selling products or when you're working on any of these kind of, you know, different business ventures. The philosophical answer is if they, if they're not looking at themselves that way, they should start. I think it's a good long term vision for most creators. And even if they don't want to build up the infrastructure of a media company. And I think this is important. You don't have to have a 30, 50, 100 person infrastructure to see yourself in that light. It can just be you and an editor if you want. But the way that you're interfacing with the market is no different than I would say a lot of TV networks. It's no different than a lot of, a lot of social platforms. In a lot of cases, like you are the mouthpiece, you're the pipes. That's the benefit of being a creator, is that you own your own distribution. When you own distribution, you own data, you're kind of hacking what traditional TV has tried to solve for for a long time.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Kind of keeping on the infrastructure point here, right. I'm curious, like how are you seeing contracts kind of reflect that change as the creator economy grows up? One word that I hear, keep hearing coming up in my discussions is syndication and usage rights.

[David Hunsinger]

I think syndication is important. I think you want to go as wide as feasibly possible without like again, square, square into a triangle. You don't want that. There are some platforms that obviously cater to different audiences. Like if you're making content that's, you know, more targeted at like an older demographic, Snapchat might not be the perfect platform for you, but within as wide of a parameter that actually makes sense, you should be distributing everywhere. It's going to be supportive of your main channel. I like to look at supplementary platforms or terse, even secondary or tertiary platforms to your main content as marketing towards what that main platform is. So if you're a YouTube creator, if you start streaming, if you start making short form, you should look at those as marketing engines back towards the core of what you're trying to watch, trying to lead people to consume. So you look at that on Twitch, you look at that on Kick. Some of the live streaming platforms, a lot of the top creators there are finding marketing on TikTok and on short form, clipping is such a huge aspect of that now. It's like the engine that's bringing people to their streams. You can say the inverse about YouTube, right? Where you're saying you're wanting people to show up hopefully once a week or a certain set of time, and you're using Instagram, using TikTok, using Snapchat or short form to drive back to that too.

[Tim Peterson]

What are the usual syndication asks these.

[David Hunsinger]

Days from a brand side? It varies so much, it's like, it's totally dependent. Like a lot of YouTube buyers. For example, if you're working with the Dr. Agencies and they're just pretty much trying to get YouTube inventory filled. They don't necessarily care about syndication of that content. I think you see that more with short form. Like if you're sponsoring a TikTok, for example, it's easier as an ask to say, well put that same piece of content on Instagram, like make it a reel. So I think it's more applicable in short form as opposed to long form, where if you're going to syndicate, you're going to have to edit. So there's additional work products being integrated into that.

[Tim Peterson]

When did syndication become the term? Because I feel like this used to just be called cross posting.

[David Hunsinger]

That's a great question. I don't know, because when I think of syndication, what I think of is there's kind of two buckets. One is the social side and the platform side getting your content on as many platforms as possible. And then the other side of that is what are you doing with like ancillary, ancillary distribution methods like OTTs, right. So are you on smart TVs? Like you're on Roku, you're on Tubi, you're on some of these like secondary platforms there you have like, I think it's Delta is now posting certain content creators on airlines. There's some cool avenues out there to explore. We spend a lot of time here thinking about that. So there's kind of both of those buckets. But your question's not wrong. It is just cross posting.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. Because in the TV and streaming world it's just like this is packaging up our inventory. That's all it is.

[David Hunsinger]

Yep, there it is.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

But also if like, I mean this industry is obsessed with naming things, right? If you, if you. At least it's not Syndication plus or Syndication Max. So that's one thing. You can count.

[David Hunsinger]

Syndication pro.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

Yeah. But in that, in that situation, like it almost kind of to me flicks at the idea of like once again maturation. Because you've gone from just simple cross posting to now like proper stealing terms from or borrowing terms from the television industry of syndication. But I'm curious, kind of like what that means for like charges and costs and things like that. Does this just become like an add on in a contract? Is it baked in automatically or how does that show up and they get paid for that?

[David Hunsinger]

That's. Those are all negotiable points in the same way that like if you're asking for usage, that's not going to be like a standard term that you just kind of bake into any deal usage, cross posting or syndication, whatever you want to call it. All of those are material deal points that you should be negotiating your creator, you know, and again, some of these are easier than others, right? If you're, if you're making a TikTok, it's going to be a lot easier to take the same piece of content and repost it. But you should be compensated for the additional viewership. If you're taking a piece of content and then having to reformat it in some way, or giving the brand the ability to put paid behind it, those are much more aggressive asks or it's going to take a lot more. Either work on your end or at least like in the case of usage, you really have to get your head around the fact that now you're going to be seen as an ad, right? It's not just you integrating with your fans and showing your community now you are part of the ad circuit. So I think that's, that's kind of it. It also kind of goes back a little bit to the media company question. I like to look at creators on YouTube, especially as traditional TV networks, if you want to think of it that way, where, if you're, if you're being really thoughtful about it, a lot of creators will find one time slot where they post on a consistent basis. They're like, this is when I'm posting once a week, twice a month, once a month, whatever that cadence is. And it's literally like programming a TV slot like you have back in the day. You had Jeopardy. Come on at what, like 7pm on, on Channel 5 or whatever. I don't, I don't even know. But you had like some of these things where you would tune in once a day or at a certain cadence because you knew it was there. And I think a lot of creators now are getting smart to the point of treating their channel in the same way. You're training viewership behavior, you're training them to be conscientious. When you put ads up, you're training them to say, okay, well, I'm going to, I'm going to see the ad for this potentially on TikTok. And then I know the video is going to come up, or I'm checking his Instagram story. I know it's going to come up. This is when it got posted.

[Tim Peterson]

And speaking of like creators, especially YouTube creators, being media companies, thinking of their channels in the same way that a TV network thinks of itself as a TV network, last month, YouTube made a really interesting announcement. It had A lot of live streaming related announcements. But one of the announcements that stood out to me the most is starting next year, it's going to test like dynamic brand placements. Basically the baked in sponsorship reads in a YouTube videos creators are going to be able to swap those out over time, which seems like it's going to open up a whole new part of the negotiation where you're going to be able to now window brand sponsorships for these, like in video sponsorships, and then negotiate around that. How are you thinking about the opportunity here? Because it feels like it's huge, but I feel like I haven't heard enough people talking about it.

[David Hunsinger]

I think it's just because we're in the first inning, but I think it is huge. I think it gives you so many more opportunities with brands and how you frame things, how you structure a deal. I have creators who are very particular about in the, over the past handful of years when they've done deals, they want to make sure that there is a time threshold when they can definitely take that ad off. So there are creators who've been thinking about this for a long time already. This is, I think, YouTube catching up with those trends and thinking about it a little bit more strategically on their end too. But I think it's huge and I think people will. We could spend an hour talking about this because I think it will be.

[Tim Peterson]

Disruptive to keep you for an hour.

[David Hunsinger]

I think it will be disruptive. I think it opens up a ton of different avenues for the creator on how they interact with brands. I think it gives brands different opportunities to window content or to look at old pieces of inventory that are going to be a little bit cheaper to buy. So I think it gives you a lot more flexibility in your deal making.

[Tim Peterson]

With this though, I wonder, are you already thinking what is going to be the default window for once this is live, whether that means all in, you know, video sponsorship deals are going to be capped at 30 minutes as like kind of the rate card idea and then negotiation from there. You know, if the brand's willing to pay for like 12 months of exclusivity, all right, that's a whole other thing. But. Or negotiate down to 30 days. Are you yet like arriving at what kind of going to be is going to be the starting term.

[David Hunsinger]

So I think that most brands are going to want at least six months live on a channel. Really? When you look at a YouTube creator's viewership, most of it comes in 30 days, if not 60. So the bulk of a video that you post, you're going to see the vast majority of reviewership come within two months. So I don't think that you're going to see many doing under that. If you talk about it in quarterly, I think there's probably a discussion about like just the first quarter because that's you're capturing the, the vast majority of eyeballs right there. But over a six month kind of time horizon, that's where you're going to see people get comfortable like saying, okay, well we're after six months, you're definitely on the long tail on viewership 100%. That's kind of my guess. I think again to your point, everything's going to be case by case. Like I'm not someone who loves to use rate cards as just like a standard of practice. I think it's better to kind of custom work with people on what they're looking for and what the creator is looking for too. So I try to be more of that on my side. But six months seems safe to me. If you're a brand, a year is probably what many will ask for. Longer than that I think is going to be unpalatable by the creator for being strategic moving forward. So that's my guess.

[Tim Peterson]

And then it makes it interesting too because then you can be going into creators back catalogs to see like okay, what's the video from five years ago that is all of a sudden popping and now you can as part of your outbound be taking that out in a way that you wouldn't have otherwise.

[David Hunsinger]

Dude, you want to just do my. Here, just come do my. It's great. I agree. I think the back catalog is going to open up a lot of interesting opportunity. You look at like some of the companies who have been. You look like the spotters of the world, for example, who've been doing a lot of back catalog deals. They've been living off of a lot of that for some of their deal structures. So I think selling a lot of that directly is interesting. I do think that working out the cost from the CPM formula for that is going to be something of a task. And I think that will be different because like I said, different creators have a different long tail viewership. It looks a little bit different for different creators, but what you can say is the bulk is going to come up front and depending on the creator and how much they can retain viewership over like a year or two period, that's going to give you some leverage in a deal discussion. So it's going to be interesting to see how that unfolds.

[Kumiko Mokoi]

I think we've talked about a lot of moving parts here. Right. But to kind of wrap this up and summarize it, I'd love to kind of get your POV on what you see as the next big trend as creators or the trend that you're paying attention to the most. Right. As creators continue to step into this positioning of themselves as proper media channels.

[David Hunsinger]

I think, you know, you look at the creator economy always comes in waves. That's how I think of it. It's like if years ago you had TCP deals off YouTube, you've had financing deals, you've had stream deals as a way, if you have these big waves of activity that happen, I think the wave that we've been on over the last handful of years has been creators driving products and building products. I think that that would continue in some ways. I think that it does take a certain creator to build products at scale. I like the idea. And I think one of the things I'm interested in is creators as effectively outsourced marketing for upstart companies or newer companies looking for retail distribution. I think when you look at companies that are growing with their e comm business, there's always kind of that critical mass before you're able to really walk into a retailer and get some of that shelf space. So I think that there's an interesting role that creators can play both as creative strategists and content engines for a brand, but also like standard marketing engines for a brand, like just getting them more exposure. So I like. I think that right now I'm interested in looking at a lot of the ability for creators to come into newer or upstart e comm businesses, help them supercharge, help them get more distribution, help them grow. So if you look at it from that perspective, it's almost like a creator as an executive, a creator as a content engine in house at brands. I think that's kind of a natural evolution of like creators just building whatever company they could think of. Right. Like, everybody wants their own business and that's great. A lot of them should and can do it. But I think that there are also lower touch or more kind of interesting ways that a creator can attach to something and not have as much work on the back end.

[Tim Peterson]

Always, always a busy time in the creator economy, which means you are a busy person, David. So we really appreciate you coming on the show. Talk with us. Enjoy the conversation.

[David Hunsinger]

Yes, good chat.

[Tim Peterson]

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Digiday podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. Get more from Digiday with our daily newsletter sent out each weekday morning. Visit digital.com newsletters to sign up.