The Digiday Podcast — "How brand-creator deal dynamics need to evolve"

Air date: October 21, 2025
Guests: David Hunsinger (Agent at Knight, representing creators such as Kai Cenat, Hasan Piker, Salma & Colby)
Hosts: Kumiko Mokoi (Senior Marketing Reporter, Digiday) and Tim Peterson (Executive Editor, Video & Audio, Digiday Media)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolving relationship between brands and creators in the context of influencer marketing’s explosive growth. With brands experimenting between in-housing influencer partnerships and using agencies as intermediaries, the hosts dissect the implications for creators and the broader creator economy, featuring expert perspective from talent agent David Hunsinger. The episode also touches on related ad tech and platform issues — from AI-driven shifts in advertising to the latest platform moves (ADCP, Pinterest’s AI filters, Meta dropping its brand suitability accreditation) — before the central conversation on brand-creator deal dynamics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Juicy Scoops: Industry News and Context (03:49–21:07)

• ADCP (Ad Context Protocol): New Ad Tech Standard

  • What is it?
    • A new protocol meant to enable AI agents to communicate within ad tech systems (DSPs, SSPs, ad exchanges), potentially automating deals that humans now handle (04:49–08:01).
  • Key concerns:
    • Job automation, particularly for junior roles

      "Who gets to keep their jobs in this situation?" — Kumiko Mokoi (08:01) "The people who already have the higher level jobs." — Tim Peterson (08:13)

    • Adoption and standardization issues; major players (Amazon, Google, Trade Desk) not yet signed on (09:22–11:52)

      “If you don't have universal support, you don't have a standard.” — Tim Peterson (09:53)

• Pinterest's "AI Free Feed" Filter

  • Efforts to let users hide AI-generated content, though the filter is actually ‘AI-light’ rather than truly AI-free. (11:52–16:31)
  • User disengagement prompts platforms to give some control back; rise of “hashtag no AI” as a badge of authenticity (14:24–16:08)

    “I think you'll see the same thing of like, hashtag no AI cropping up here.” — Kumiko Mokoi (15:44)

• Meta Abandons MRC Accreditation for Brand Suitability

  • Meta opts out of the Media Rating Council's brand suitability audit, reflecting platform resistance to first-party audits and raising questions about future standards (16:32–20:15)

    "I would still think advertisers would want some form of audit. ... First party audit I would think would still be preferable to no audit." — Tim Peterson (18:33)

2. Featured Conversation: Brands, Creators & New Deal Dynamics (21:25–52:33)

The In-housing Debate and Creator Perspective

• Brands Bringing Creator Work In-house
  • Brands like Blue Apron are hiring internal managers to oversee large creator rosters, raising questions about the value of agencies and directness in creative collaboration (22:11–23:05).
  • Creator POV:
    • Most macro-level creators aren’t directly involved in the negotiation phase; this is typically handled by agents or managers (23:05).
    • Creators value working closer to brands for greater message alignment and authenticity. Direct relationships often produce better campaign outcomes (23:05–25:25).

      "The closer that a creator can get to the raw brand ... the better it's going to manifest." — David Hunsinger (23:05)

When Does Brand-Direct Engagement Happen?

• For smaller or up-and-coming creators, direct interaction is more common, often due to lacking representation.
• As creators grow, time constraints push them to rely on reps; personal calls with brands then become rare, except for major or long-term deals (25:26–27:09).

Deal Structure: Rates, Timelines, Rights

• Changing who negotiates (agency vs. brand) doesn’t fundamentally alter how terms like timelines or syndication rights are hammered out (27:09–28:37).
• Direct-to-brand deals can speed up and clarify negotiations, as there’s "no game of telephone" across intermediaries (27:33).

Agency vs. Brand-Direct: What Dominates?

• For day-to-day YouTube integrations, agencies still handle the majority, thanks to economies of scale and efficiency in bulk buying inventory.

  • Big, prestigious brands are more likely to go direct for specialized, high-profile campaigns (28:51–30:13).

• Platform Differences

  • Short-form (TikTok, Instagram) is even more agency-driven than long-form (YouTube) content (30:13–31:40).

Viewing Creators as Media Channels

• Brands are increasingly treating creators as media properties, seeking video “inventory” similar to TV or streaming ad deals (31:40–33:09).
• Creators with repeatable shows/formats are uniquely positioned to offer "upfronts" — pre-sold inventory packaged for sponsors (33:09–34:37).

  • "Upfronts would be a great holy grail to try to bake into the creator economy." — David Hunsinger (33:09)

• Some creators already use quarterly content maps to enable more strategic, outbound sales and targeted partnerships (33:09–35:03).

Syndication, Cross-Posting, and Business Model Maturation

• Syndication is now the term of art, reflecting creators’ maturation as businesses and borrowing from TV industry lingo (39:37–42:00).
  • Contracts now increasingly include syndication/cross-posting and usage rights as negotiable, distinct (and billable) items (39:54–43:34).

    “All of those are material deal points that you should be negotiating.” — David Hunsinger (43:34)

• Creators are urged to view themselves as media companies, regardless of team size (38:00–39:37).

Dynamic Brand Placement — The Next Disruption

• YouTube’s Dynamic Brand Insertion (launching next year):
  • Creators can swap out baked-in sponsorship reads, enabling content to be re-sold or "windowed" over time (45:34–47:26).
  • Opportunity to monetize back catalogs; introduces new pricing models based on how long a brand gets exclusivity (47:26–49:30).

    "The back catalog is going to open up a lot of interesting opportunity." — David Hunsinger (49:30)

3. Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

On Industry Shifts

“If you don't have universal support, you don't have a standard.”
— Tim Peterson (09:53)

“The brand obviously has more control over that if you're talking directly ... there's no game of telephone, you're going straight to the store.”
— David Hunsinger (27:33)

On Authenticity and Creator Strategy

“Everybody's tired of talking about authenticity ... but it's true.”
— David Hunsinger (36:14)

“They should see themselves as media companies. Like they should see themselves as platforms ... at the end game, that's the perspective that's healthy for them to have.”
— David Hunsinger (38:00)

“Creators as effectively outsourced marketing for upstart companies or newer companies looking for retail distribution ... a creator as an executive, a creator as a content engine in-house at brands.”
— David Hunsinger (50:42)

On Upcoming Disruption

“I think it [dynamic brand placements] will be disruptive. I think it opens up a ton of different avenues for the creator on how they interact with brands.”
— David Hunsinger (47:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Juicy Scoops (Industry news): 03:49–21:07

  • ADCP explained: 04:44–11:52
  • Pinterest’s AI filter: 11:52–16:31
  • Meta & MRC: 16:31–20:26

• Main Interview with David Hunsinger:

  • Introduction and context: 21:25–23:05
  • Creator perspective on in-housing vs. agency: 23:05–25:25
  • Impact by creator size and rep: 25:26–27:09
  • Deal mechanics: 27:09–28:51
  • Agency vs. brand-direct prevalence: 28:51–30:13
  • Platform differences: 30:13–31:40
  • Creators as media channels: 31:40–38:00
  • Syndication/cross-posting: 39:37–43:34
  • YouTube dynamic brand insertion: 45:34–50:24
  • Future trends: 50:42–52:33

Concluding Insights

• The Creator Economy is Professionalizing:
  • The lines are blurring between creators, traditional media, and agencies; creators are increasingly encouraged to see themselves as full-fledged media companies.
• Authenticity Still Rules:
  • The more direct and authentic the connection between creator and brand, the more successful the campaigns — but scale demands efficiency, keeping agencies relevant.
• Upcoming Disruptions:
  • Dynamic insertion on YouTube and new ad tech standards like ADCP are set to reshape the landscape, creating new opportunity for both brands and creators — but also introducing more complex negotiations and workflow considerations.
• Critical Future Trend:
  • Outsourced creator-driven marketing for emerging brands and companies is poised to become a significant growth vector, possibly even supplanting traditional influencer-brand models.

For listeners who missed the episode:
This episode provides a rich, practical look at how creator-brand dealmaking is changing, what’s driving those changes, and how both creators and agencies can adapt for the future. It’s a must-listen for anyone navigating the creator economy, advertising, or brand marketing spaces.