The Digiday Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: How Kalen Allen Navigates Brand Safety and Cultural Polarization in the Creator Economy
Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Kamiko McCoy (Digiday reporter)
Guest: Kalen Allen (Creator, TV Host)
Co-host: Michael Bürgi (Digiday Senior Editor of Media Buying and Planning)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Digiday Podcast focuses on the big shifts in media, marketing, and the creator economy, with a deep dive into how creators like Kalen Allen are navigating the rapidly evolving landscape of brand safety, authenticity, and cultural polarization. The hosts also cover hot topics from the business side—AI innovation among ad agencies, ongoing lawsuits regarding AI and intellectual property, and the potential sale of Warner Bros. Discovery. The back half of the episode features a candid, insightful interview with Kalen Allen, who shares his experiences balancing authenticity, brand partnerships, and his identity in a polarized and politicized digital world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Industry News: AI in Advertising & Legal Turmoil

(00:31–24:39)

WPP’s AI Platform and Industry Disruption

• WPP launches WPP Open Pro—an AI marketing platform geared toward brands of all sizes, aiming to democratize campaign creation in a “white glove” self-service manner.
• Shift to smaller clients: WPP’s move is seen as an acknowledgment that neglecting smaller clients can be risky.
• Publicis as leader: Publicis’ Marcel platform set the AI standard in holding companies, impacting up to 80% of its revenues.
  • Quote: "They were like the first to kind of talk AI...now it touched 80% of the dollars that they brought in. That I find a little bit insane." (Bürgi, 09:18)
• AI democratization: Independents are using AI for specialized tasks (e.g., marketing mix modeling), while holding companies build large-scale platforms.
• AI and revenue: Monetization isn’t WPP’s primary motive but could yield new revenue streams, especially from clients usually underserved.

Lawsuits & Regulation: The Wild West of AI

• Reddit vs. Perplexity AI: Accusation of illegal data scraping—part of a wave of suits by content companies (NYT, Disney, Universal) versus AI start-ups.
• California regulation: The Transparency and Frontier Artificial Intelligence Act aims for accountability in cutting-edge AI, while the federal government and Silicon Valley largely push back on regulation.
  • Quote: “The lack of AI regulation is creating somewhat of a Wild West.” (Bürgi, 11:28)
• Agency Legal Departments: Agencies are increasingly “AI whisperers,” building up legal expertise to guide brands through risks.
  • Quote: “Their legal teams are helping brands wend their way through where to play with AI and where not to play with AI so that they don't get into trouble.” (Bürgi, 17:00)

Media M&A: Warner Bros. Discovery on the Block

• Warner Bros. Discovery explores a sale: Major buyers could include Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Comcast, or Paramount/Skydance.
• Strategic vs. fire sale: Discussion whether the sale is driven by market forces or internal mismanagement, with odds leaning toward a fire sale due to debt and an “imperfect merger.”
  • Quote: “I think whether [Zaslav] likes it or not, we're kind of finding out that maybe he just wasn't the visionary that he thought he was.” (Bürgi, 19:22)
• Linear media struggles: Traditional networks (e.g., CNN, TNT) declining in value; the question now is who among tech and media giants will buy the assets.

2. Spotlight: Kalen Allen on the Creator Economy, Brand Safety, and Identity

(24:40–52:14)

Defining Himself in the Creator Landscape

• Identity over “Influencer” Label:
  • Kalen distinguishes himself from being merely an influencer, tying his follower base to TV visibility (Ellen, Food Network), not just social content.
  • Focused now on bigger creative goals—hosting TV and talk shows (e.g., “Fox Reality Check”) and aligning all business efforts toward those ambitions.
  • Quote: “I made the decision that I am not an influencer. I don’t claim myself to be that. I don’t go places and think of how to record it...” (Allen, 26:03)

Brand Deals: Evolving Monetization & Strategy

• Brand deals down from 90% to 80% of income due to consistent show hosting paychecks.
• Shift to Proactive, Strategic Partnerships: Kalen’s most successful brand work comes from content he organically creates—brands approach him after seeing his authentic engagement.
  • Quote: “If I create a video about a certain brand and that does popular, then chances are then that brand circles back to me to do an ad down the line...” (Allen, 28:48)
• Creativity & Storytelling: Driven by narrative—doesn’t just produce content for the sake of a paycheck; wants content, even sponsored, to fit into a broader story.

Changing Brand Expectations for Creators

• ROAS pressure: Brands are demanding more syndication across platforms, tighter brief control, and harder proof of performance—sometimes using lower performance as an excuse to negotiate rates.
  • Quote: “...they said that my ads don't perform as well as my organic content. And I was like, well, that's kind of everybody's story, but okay.” (Allen, 31:08)
• Negotiation tactics: Kalen encourages creators to demand equity in pay and, if necessary, negotiate for product in lieu of cash when budgets are tight.
  • Quote: “If a brand cannot match your rate, then ask for the rest of it in product. That's how I got my mama a stove and a refrigerator.” (Allen, 35:31)
• Trust and Vetting: Loyalty to brands that align with his values; willingness to help smaller, mission-driven brands, especially in education.

Group Chat Culture: Solidarity and Transparency

• Peer communication: Creators compare notes on rates, payment reliability, and brand conduct through group chats.
  • Quote: “…that's the most frustrating thing about it all. Cause I'm like, do you not think that we talk? Do you not think that we don't discuss this stuff?” (Allen, 33:00)
• Payment issues: Frustration with slow or unpredictable payment schedules, especially when expectations for content delivery are so rigid.

Navigating Cultural Polarization & Brand Safety

• As a Black, queer creator: Every part of “showing up” is politicized—to audiences seeking authenticity and to brands wary of controversy.
• Contractual constraints: Sometimes silence isn’t a choice—often, public figures simply cannot speak about sensitive issues for legal reasons.
  • Quote: “…we are all. This is a legal thing for us. Like, we actually cannot talk about these things to the public.” (Allen, 39:16)
• Handling audience demands: Feels pressure to be both authentic and outspoken, yet is realistic about boundaries and personal well-being.
  • Quote: “You really have to just relinquish this idea that everybody's going to like you.” (Allen, 40:30)
• After the Starbucks fallout: Backlash taught Kalen about the complexities of social media, misinformation, and the impossibility of vetting every brand's past.
  • Quote: “I don't know any brand that truly has, like, a perfect slate. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't think that's even realistic.” (Allen, 45:42)
• “Performative” outrage: Experiences with online attacks (“homophobia…racism…big old echo chambers”) underscore the challenge for creators immersed in identity politics.

Realities of Brand Vetting in a Fast-Moving Culture

• Fragmented information: Given the speed at which information and controversy move, there are limits to due diligence.
• Drawing personal lines: Will decline offers from brands with clearly documented, widely recognized misconduct—but notes that ambiguity is common.
  • Quote: “When you are aware then now you're making a deliberate choice, you know, but…if you don't know the extent of it, then that's a very different decision making.” (Allen, 49:33)

Staying Grounded Amidst Content Chaos

• Allen’s method: Each morning, checks trending topics to keep up, but avoids constant online engagement to preserve creativity and clear thinking.
  • Quote: “I'll wake up in the morning and I'll get on like, threads…what's in the conversation, and I'll be like, okay, got it. And then I'm off of it.” (Allen, 50:39)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On being more than an influencer:

  “I want a talk show, I want to work on TV. …Even I don't necessarily think TV is a dying art. I think it's just changing.” —Kalen Allen (26:03)

• On brand deal negotiation:

  “If a brand cannot match your rate, then ask for the rest of it in product. That's how I got my mama a stove and a refrigerator.” —Kalen Allen (35:31)

• On cultural polarization:

  “You really have to just relinquish this idea that everybody's going to like you.” —Kalen Allen (40:30)

• After the Starbucks campaign backlash:

  “What people use that moment to do is then enhance their bigotry, because then it was a lot of homophobia… there was a lot of racism coming out.” —Kalen Allen (44:51)

• On vetting brands:

  “I don't know any brand that truly has, like, a perfect slate…It's not even realistic.” —Kalen Allen (45:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• WPP’s AI “Open Pro” and industry impact: 01:25–08:58
• AI lawsuits, regulation, and agency legal departments: 10:05–18:14
• Warner Bros. Discovery sale analysis: 18:38–23:32
• Kalen Allen on the creator business model: 24:40–28:17
• Brand deals, negotiation, and group chats: 28:48–35:35
• Vetting brands, payment, and equity issues: 35:51–39:16
• Navigating identity, audience, and cultural flashpoints: 39:59–47:28
• Social media strategy and information overload: 50:17–52:10

Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough look at the evolving business of content, both for media giants and individual creators. Kalen Allen’s candid reflections highlight the ongoing challenges of balancing brand safety, authenticity, and the volatility of today's cultural and political environment. Meanwhile, Digiday's newsroom analysis paints the broader context—where AI, legal uncertainty, and shifting business models reshape the rules every day.

Key takeaways:

• For creators, authentic storytelling and peer solidarity are more important than ever—but so is strategic caution.
• Brands must recognize the human realities behind creators’ work and avoid treating partnerships as mere transactional opportunities.
• Both the brand/agency world and the creator economy are adapting—sometimes gracefully, sometimes chaotically—to a landscape where legal, technological, and cultural changes are the only constants.